As of this week, both my children are in secondary school. Time flies and in no time they will be finished school. If they were to ask me (which they don’t) what they should do after school, what should I say? If they ask, “Dad, what should I do for a living?” or, “Where should I work?” what would you tell your children?
At some stage, most parents believe that they might be of some help to their kids, at least in terms of guidance. Given that in our house I am generally relegated to some pathetic lowly position somewhere between the village idiot and a human ATM, maybe my guidance phase will never come. But if it does, what will my answer be?
When assessed from the perspective of an adult who realises after a few decades in the real world that life is tricky, insecure and that nothing comes easily, an understandable default position is to consider what job pays best, where hours are tolerable and the pension is decent.
The place in Ireland that comes close to giving workers good pay, job security and a decent pension is the public sector.
Figures published last week reinforce what we have all sensed for years: on average, people in the public sector get much better paid than people in the private sector. The CSO now says that public sector workers earn on average 48 per cent more than those employed in the private sector.
Public servants are paid an average of €919 per week, compared to €622 in the private sector. Just take that in for a second. What justifies this significant disparity?
The people representing the public sector say you shouldn’t compare the two sectors because public sector workers have more degrees, have a higher standard of education and are generally older.
This is hardly a satisfactory answer for the rest of society. It is only a legitimate reason if you accept that this way of rewarding people is legitimate.
If you link pay to levels of education or age or the number of degrees, then of course older people with more degrees will get paid most. But what if such a system of rewards sets up a bizarre incentive system?
What if people are doing extra education courses not for the sake of education, but to “qualify” themselves for pay rises or to climb up the public sector promotion ladder which uses a “degree quota” as a measure of merit?
If this is the case, there will always be more degrees in the public sector. This educational inflation will be particularly attractive if there is generous study leave and courses are paid for by other taxpayers. Sure who wouldn’t do an extra degree? But does having a degree in itself qualify you for higher wages? Why should a public servant who decides to do a degree that only has a tangential impact on their actual job as part of a further education programme, be entitled to more wages?
You tell me.
However, if this reward system becomes embedded, it is easy to justify higher wages because you have the reason and the reason is enough. It also helps that the other institutions that give out the degrees are also public sector outfits. It kind of keeps things in the family.
When we stand back, we see that in a capitalist society the only reason anyone should get higher wages is if the service he/she provides is getting better. If yes, great, but if not, then the organisation can’t justify wage increases.
I am not aware of a massive change in the effectiveness of the Irish public sector or its provision of basic services over the last few years.
What I do know is that the ultimate economic sanction – losing your job – is not something public sector workers experience.
Taking wage cuts is not the same as having no wage at all. Most importantly, public sector workers are promised pensions that private sector workers can only dream of. This is an enormous positive and – when taken together with career breaks, nine to five, overtime and higher weekly wages – it suggests that I would be a fool to advise my kids to do anything but get jobs in the public sector. But we still have no real persuasive reason as to why the public sector workers are better off than private sector workers.
In truth, the real reason the public sector is a much better place to work than the private sector has nothing to do with degrees and the like. It has everything to do with unions.
The job of the trade union is to get the best deal for its members and the Irish public sector trade unions have done an amazing job for their members.
They have protected them from the worst of the recession and engineered safety nets insulating their people from the slump, so much so that the relative pay gap between the public and private sector has risen as the country became progressively poorer.
The public sector workers have a say at the top table. They have a stake in society. For many, on lower pay scales, it mightn’t seem like it, but it is the case. They have someone powerful to speak on their behalf and they have a political system that listens to them. In short, they are insiders, not the most conspicuous insiders and not insiders like their civil servant bosses, but insiders nonetheless.
The society splits in a crisis between insiders and outsiders.
The insiders are those with a stake in the society. They have access to the infrastructure of influence. They have the ability to negotiate. They have bargaining power.
The outsiders are those without such a stake. So when the self-employed electrician’s business goes bang, he can’t even get social welfare because he has no stamps.
He is an outsider, even though he has employed people and paid tax for years. He has no one to speak for him, no voice – however small – at the top table.
When the factory closes, its workers are outsiders. They are on their own.
When a pensioner who has worked in the private sector has her pension eviscerated, as her nest egg blows up in Anglo and AIB shares, she has no comeback. She is an outsider.
When the small business goes bang, its suppliers are shafted, languishing at the bottom of the creditor queue. They are outsiders.
When you talk to your kids, what will you advise them: to be an insider or an outsider?
I took a 50% pay cut to work in the public sector. My only degree is a Bachelors. I do find it odd that using degrees and experience to justify higher pay is somehow a bad thing. If people take the time and effort to become skilled at something and they *are* good at something, then shouldn’t they be paid more? The public sector has had loads of lower paid jobs outsourced to the private sector. So obviously the higher paying jobs will drive up the average pay. But job for job, skill level for skill level, the public sector… Read more »
My 2nd son starts University today, (studying BEES – Biological Earth & Environmental Science) , joining his older brother who is going into 2nd Electrical Engineering. Both have no illusions about where their futures lie – Overseas ! Before they start, they are resigned about having to emigrate to find work in their chosen fields. A friends son qualified with the BEES equivalent degree 3 years ago from UCD , worked for 2 years in Australia and is now starting a Masters in Queens University, but feels that there won’t be any jobs in this area in Ireland for another… Read more »
its part of ‘the generation game’ David. You’ve now reached the point where the future for your kids career is on the horizon and as with all mammies & daddies down through the generations a safe job in the civil service/bank/army/nurse/guard/teacher looks attractive. Your article is a cheap shot at public servants. They had much more attractive pay & work hours during the ‘boom’ but I don’t remember many lauding these career paths. Better to go private, make truckloads, loose 10 truckloads, default (this is a good entrepreneurial sign ‘cos the Americans do it) and look around for somebody to… Read more »
subscribe
I worked in the private sector for 30 years and in later years got very well paid but, they did want their pound of flesh! Finding myself out of work, I took an 18 month contract with a Public Sector institution – found it quite disturbing that such a dysfunctional organisation can exist. The culture was destructive and the attitude of all workers was all about their own needs than that of the organisation they worked for. I then set up my own business where, ironically, I had to deal with several public institutions – with the odd exception, my… Read more »
The ferocious defence of the public sector as it is by those within it, is quite understandable, but the question is simple, and the answer is surely, in the Public Sector. There really isn’t much else going on any more.
The related question that should be more interesting is for how long is it possible to maintain this situation, given that public sector isn’t wealth generating?
Lies Damn Lies and Statistics. As public sector worker, I feel another media driven campaign coming to drive a wedge between the Private sector and public sector worker. Reading this article confirms my suspicion that McWilliams analysis of most things is superficial, ill informed and massively biased to whatever zeitgeist happens to fill the ether on any given day. So lets get down to some facts – real facts. Yes the public sector does need reforming, yes certain elements of the public sector are massively overpaid and yes there are inefficiencies in the system. The same can be said of… Read more »
[…] “As of this week, both my children are in secondary school. Time flies and in no time they will be finished school. If they were to ask me (which they don’t) what they should do after school, what should I say? If they ask, ‘Dad, what should I do for a living?’ or, ‘Where should I work?’ what would you tell your children? …” (more) […]
I come from a dynasty of teachers, although I am not one. I have worked in the private sector in a call-centre for a multinational and I am now self-employed. I must say, sometimes I do go apoplectic when dealing with the public sector. Family members of mine have told me anecdotes of unprofessional behaviour of colleagues of theirs and it astounds me that people cannot be dismissed after such things. I remember working for the multinational, where if you were unprofessional, you had a certain amount of strikes, and then you were out. I never saw anyone undeservedly fired.… Read more »
While I could not be described as a typical PS, having spent the bulk of my life self employed I find myself now working in the PS (don’t get me wrong, thankfully working in the PS), I have however experienced the culture shock of my life in joining, I didn’t believe such insular, selfish, self centered people existed and certainly not in public administration. In my short few years I have witnessed serious addiction, mental illness and bullying on a level I can’t put into words. I have to stay where I am unfortunately for the moment but I am… Read more »
Maybe they do have more degrees, but the real winner for them is increments, which have nothing to do with how productive or educated they are….. their pay goes up with years served. This was highlighted when analysis of the overall public service pay bill showed that while their salaries where cut a while back, only a couple of years later they had gained most of the cut back and worst of all increments were not scrapped, even though the country was still getting money from the troika and still continues to borrow for the current account deficit. The world… Read more »
I would not dare give career ‘advice’ to youngsters let alone grown adults. I know too many people who have re-trained for new ‘industries’ only to discover the ‘industry’ only exists in the imaginations of mainstream media. Renewable Energies, anyone? They are all now unemployed.
Too many people are cracking up because of a false dogma.
Are you an insider or an outsider?
Forget the system.
Japanese kids (the few not beaten down by failed capitalism) KNOW they have no future in the system, so they make their own alternative future, their own system, their own communes.
.
Well done David – This is the most unintellectual article I’ve read in some time, and believe me that’s quite an achievement in Irish journalism. The dichotomisation you’ve established here is remarkably polemical, but I suppose its perfectly suited to the readership of the Sunday Business Post who like to imagine the private-public divide as something akin to the Germany-Brazil World Cup Semi-Final. Public sector = secure, well paid, well pensioned but ineffective. Private sector = insecure, underpaid, poorly pensioned but effective. Given that each sector is significantly stratified within, with massive disparities between lower and higher positions and their… Read more »
Please, please, please don’t start all this up again – pitting the public against the private sector. We should be working together. Don’t be manipulated by the media and the government – don’t fall for it yet again!
Although in the public sector myself I think there is a very interesting point in here and it’s this: is the increased level of education in the public sector a reflection of the fact that public servants are doing high level work or is just a reflection of demand? In other words, the public sector recruits people with loads of qualifications not so much because it needs them but because it’s a reasonable sorting method for simplifying the recruitment process. I suspect that for a lot of admin roles, it may be the latter. I don’t have the figures off… Read more »
The Public sector in Ireland is effectively like what Orwell described as the “inner party” – who have a symbiotic relationship with the Government; They get generous pay & cushy terms of employment; the Government get’s a voting block in return Seeing as it’s not in the Government’s interest to smash the unions – It’s time for the Private sector to vote independent in all the elections (the more obscure the candidate the better). The more independents that get elected the less power the main parties have and consequently the less power the PS unions will hold over the country.… Read more »
The public sector is a broad category. There is also a grey, entities that rely on the state for sustenance. It includes an enormous amount of wasters who are doing nothing, who are there because of politics. And that often means that they are political party canvassers. There is also a useful element in the public sector, who are people do not take political party politics seriously. They have one very important aspect – they are driven by the need to serve. The wasters who are members of political parties are not driven by the need to serve, but by… Read more »
If you want to see what is wrong with the public sector, look at the Dail. How long have they been on their holidays now ? It seems as if they have been doing nothing since the EP/local elections. And back then they were doing stuff that is of little value to the taxpayer, and which is only of benefit to the party machine. Party machines are expensive parasites on the rest of the populace. And they incentivize bad behaviour. I do not know how to remedy this. Perhaps by introducing more transparency with respect to political appointments, and enabling… Read more »
What David said is correct,but the truth is bitter for alot of people.When the Private sector worker pays the same contributions as the persons in the Public Sector & gets the same pension for the same number of years worked then we will have made a big step in the equality of our citizens.Private sector pensions are invested & may fluctuate with the market.Public Sector Pensions are paid out of current income revenue.The OECD have got it all wrong again.370000 in the Public sector,1.8m in the Private sector.80000 Public sector workers in New Zealand Pop 4.5m .It will be great… Read more »
A relative of mine who was in the public sector was earning around €100k, got to retire at 57, would have got a six figure retirement sum and must be on a pension well over the average industrial wage- it’s simply money I’ll probably never see despite having a degree and having to work twice as many hours. It’s a flawed system where if you’re on a huge salary, your pension is then half of that huge amount for the rest of your life!(we have failed politicians on around €90k a year pension). The relation flatly refuses to believe that… Read more »
>somewhere between the village idiot and a human ATM I bet that got a wry smile from every family man in the country. I would have laughed out loud, except it’s too close to home to be really funny. I work in the private sector. My wife works in the public sector. I say, if you can’t beat them, join them. If being unionised has worked for them , let’s all unionise. Private sector incomes are too low relative to the cost of living. Let’s focus on the common problems and enemies, instead of wasting time and energy squabbling amoungst… Read more »
In the private sector by and large, the paymaster is the business owner. The employees negotiate as best they can and the market plays a strong supporting role. The public service paymaster is not the owner, nor a stakeholder, in fact it is an employee of the state, another civil servant. Even the argument, that Independant bodies are employed from the private sector to review wages in the public sector holds no real credibility, we all know about benchmarking. Let’s face it, what company would go in slash the wages of the client who puts gravy in their bottom line.… Read more »
“…we see that in a capitalist society…” Well there’s your problem right there. Clearly Ireland is not a purely “capitalist society”; and nor should it be. Any reasonable person shouldn’t want a pure unregulated capitalist society. The whole labour/social democratic advancement is based on the need of having some kind of collective power to balance against capitalistic abuses. Do we want to go back to “Strumpet City”? I think this article is somewhat useful, but is just wrong from a societal/social democratic perspective. The article implies problems, but doesn’t actually point them out. Certainly just giving wage increases because of… Read more »
My advice to somebody unsure of what to do would be to find out what you are passionate about and then target a career in it. So, if that means a young wan who is mad about a bit of glam and style, why not go train to be a hairdresser – good money in it I’m told. Then, if a boy racer is excited by cars, look into finding a way of training to be a mechanic. If you are excited by buildings and structures, study civil engineering or architecture. The trick is finding something which rouses your interest… Read more »
Hi David. “You tell me” Thanks David. I will. The article isn’t actually that bad. It requires a bit of deep thinking to understand the points you are making and fair play to you, you raise very important questions which are necessary in a country and society as dysfunctional as Poluba. (My new name for Ireland a cross between Cuba and Poland; cheap eastern European labour in a country depending on transfers of funding from a much bigger neighbor just like Cuba) My beef on this occasion is with the quality of the responses. They are by and large dreadful… Read more »
I work for a company subcontracted to the PS as the PS cannot employ directly. I sit nicely on the fence of private and public. To be truthful, I don’t know who is more shameful and don’t be fooled, both are lazy. The PS has better conditions and is a broken system as it cannot get rid of useless employees. The private sector would find a way to cut corners in a straight line. I deal with private companies, and trying to get them to do things correctly is impossible. That is a form of laziness. In effect, one does… Read more »
LACK OF COMPETITION!! Public workers are not paid more because they stick together, its because their customers are forced to stick with them!! Apologies for shouting, but this is the elephant in the room. The PS unions are so effective because their members work for state enforced monopolies, and can set their prices (tax) as high as they like. The customer (taxpayer) has no choice but to pay. If you are unhappy with your local school, you cannot get a tax reduction for home schooling your kids, or hiring a private tutor. If you are unhappy with your roads or… Read more »
Thanks for all the comments on this article. I have read them all and am wiser as a result of the time. Thnaks very much. I would like to know more about this theory of bureaucracy. Any leads? Best David
All civil servants should be subject to regular “fitness reports” and required to complete regular “continuing education” courses.
All public service pensions should be “defined contribution” not “defined benefit” which would clean up the markets – investment managers of “defined benefit” funds do not have to show a return.
I hope one day to see the job security of the public service. For years I was a teacher in the private sector and last January made the decision to join the public sector teaching profession as I was on a two-day week in my previous job. I had to move up the country from my previous job to take up a temporary maternity cover position which ended after five months. In all probability I am facing years of moving around the country from one maternity contract to another to obtain the necessary experience to qualify me for a more… Read more »