February 26, 2017

To fight far-right we must help Muslims to fit in

Posted in Irish Independent · 213 comments ·
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We have three upcoming elections in France, the Netherlands and Germany where immigration — and Muslim immigration in particular — will be the main issue. In America, Donald Trump has declared his hand. Anti-Islam was one of his central campaign messages. And in Britain, immigration was probably the issue that swung the Brexit vote.

Your tolerance or otherwise of mass immigration depends on many factors. Are you threatened? Do you benefit economically? Do you believe that multiculturalism is a good thing? Do you believe that we should take responsibility for the poor?

Most of us do not take extreme positions on immigration and are typically somewhere in the middle. It is common to hear people saying the success or otherwise of immigration depends whether the immigrants “fit in”.

Integration is what politicians call it, but to most of us the expression “fitting in” does just grand. Integration is Orwellian-sounding. It is the sort of term a European Commission bureaucrat would come up with.

So immigration is about fitting in; being one of us. No matter how different the parents are, most of us believe that the children of immigrants to Ireland will become Irish and will share our values. In this scenario, immigration does not lead to segregation. In other words, time heals all.

We Irish are the living embodiment of this.

In the US of the mid-19th century, mass Irish and German immigration, particularly Catholic immigration, prompted the virulently anti-Catholic “Know Nothing” movement.

The Know Nothings were a Nativist American movement — a kind of precursor of Mr Trump — that warned against the dilution of Protestant America by these new Catholics.

In 1855, 52pc of New York’s 622,925 citizens were foreign-born. Of these foreigners, 28pc were Irish and 16pc were German. In all, from 1847 to 1860, 1.1 million Irish immigrants docked at the Port of New York, as well as 900,000 largely Catholic Germans.

The Know Nothings claimed these Catholics, particularly the Irish, would never fit in. They were seen as foreign and un-American. The Know Nothings called for a 21-year naturalisation rule to prevent the Irish from voting. Only after this time could the immigrant be American enough to gain the right to vote.

In the end, the opposition to Catholics — and later Jews — proved to be transitory. Both groups fit in, eventually. This ability of the immigrants to fit in is crucial to the gradual acceptance of new neighbours in any society.

But if “fitting in” is a natural process, why is a massive resistance to Islamic immigration sweeping across the West? This is new. It is violent and it is dangerous. But is it understandable?

Are Muslim immigrants different?

I was thinking about this while watching coverage of the Dutch elections because the Netherlands has been traditionally a very open, tolerant country. Yet on March 15th, Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom, or PVV, is likely to become the biggest political party in the country. Among his proposed policies are zero new immigration and — more inflammatory — closure of all Mosques and a ban on the sale of the Koran in The Netherlands.

This to me is outrageous stuff, but indignation is not a strategy. The question is whether Mr Wilders and French far-right presidential candidate Marine Le Pen are both tapping into something real or are they simply demagogues.

If Muslims fit in like all previous immigrants before them and if the children of Muslim immigrants become just like the locals, surely this opposition is simply racist?

In considering this question, I re-examined a paper I read a few years ago published by respected economists in Germany, based then on up-to-date evidence from the UK. This research suggests that Muslim immigrants could be an exception.

The Institute for the Study of Labour in Bonn suggested, in a research paper “Are Muslim Immigrants different in terms of Cultural Integration?” (www.ideas.repec.org), that the evidence shows many Muslim migrants are exceptional.

This territory — as we all know — is a minefield, so let’s stay as close as possible to the data.

Using the UK Fourth National Survey of Ethnic Minorities, the German researchers arrive at definitive, but explosive, conclusions. If these conclusions were incendiary 10 years ago, think about the political reality today.

In a nutshell, the data shows that in Britain, Muslims integrate less and considerably more slowly than non-Muslims. A Muslim born in the UK and having spent more than 50 years there, is likely to have a much stronger, separate identity than another non-Muslim immigrant who has just arrived. This includes Chinese, Caribbeans and non-Muslim Indians.

The first finding of the report, which is based on comprehensive survey data and interviews carried out in the UK, found that “Muslims do not seem to assimilate with the time spent in the UK, or at least they seem to do so at a much slower rate than non-Muslims”.

For example, 79pc of Muslims stated that religious identity was very important to them as opposed to 42pc of non-Muslims. Meanwhile, 70pc of Muslims said that they “would mind very much” if one of the family married a non-Muslim person as opposed to 37pc of other faiths.

The second finding blows a hole in one of the central economic arguments about financial progress and fitting in. Most economists, social scientists and political commentators say that integration is a matter of opportunity.

But this finding reveals that for British Muslims, “Education does not seem to have any effect on the attenuation of their identity; and job qualification, as well as living in neighbourhoods with a low unemployment rate, seem to accentuate rather than moderate the identity formation of Muslims”.

Bizarrely, therefore, the richer the area, the more “Muslim” the Muslim resident becomes.

The third observation, which is particularly interesting as it goes against the presumed wisdom, is that “for Muslims more than for non-Muslims, there is no evidence that segregated neighbourhoods breed intense religious and cultural identities”. This is relevant because it is normal to hear politicians warn (whether they mean this or not) against “creating ghettos”.

This report suggests that ghettos don’t matter in terms of affecting the extent of Muslim integration.

These findings indicate that “fitting in” isn’t always something that we can assume just happens. Granted it is just one paper and it singles out the UK, but it is fascinating and instructive. The lesson is that if we want to counter the anti-Muslim feeling whipped up by the likes of Mr Wilders and Ms Le Pen, we can’t simply be indignant or merely affronted. If Europe wants less anti-Muslim political movements, policies to encourage “fitting in” need to be the most pressing issue of the day. It also means that Muslim leaders have to be honest about whether they are playing their part in coaxing their own communities to fit in.

In the long-run this can only be beneficial for everyone, but right now the omens are not good.


  1. Bamboo

    Thanks for this article David.
    I think, unfortunately there arelots of trash media outlets in Holland that generates “good” TV. The worst kind of discussions on TV and radio programs are rampant. The most offensive guests with their outrageous opinions are great for viewers numbers. This type of trash media probably apply to France and other countries as well.

    • Deco

      In Ireland, we have trash media too. It presents a facade of being something serious, and it engages in “circling the wagons” on a continual basis.

      With newspapers quoting overpaid TV presenters, and television “news” reading discreditted comics.

    • Deco

      Regarding the TRASH MEDIA in Ireland, can somebody please update us on the state of the finances of Ireland’s media oligarch who owns a massive telecoms empire ?

      25 Million USD to the Clinton Foundation, and nothing to show for it.

      That was an expensive adventure.

      We can say what we like about Michael Lowry – but he did manage to get elected.

  2. Colm MacDonncha

    I hate to say it David, but having lived in the Middle East for many years,it is a fact that a sizeable majority of Muslims are openly anti-Semitic and anti-christian, and firmly believe that it is their duty to undermine and refute any theism other than that of the Koran. While the use of violence to attain this would be acceptable only to a tiny minority,Islam and Sharia law would vehemently oppose many of the freedoms we take for granted in Europe. So no, I personally don’t think that we will ever see full integration of Muslims into our societies unless we were all to embrace Islam.
    That said, I feel that there is no harm at all in different cultural identities Co-existing peacefully, as long as each has mutual respect and tolerance,and that these identities and the right to practise any religion or no religion are constitutionally protected in a secular state.

    • mcsean2163

      Good answer, I live in the UK and can’t ever see myself integrating to the degree that I support the monarchy….

      • Mike Marketing

        Yes mcsean2163 I understand your view.

        But you might ‘respect’ the British Monarchy (a great asset to the British Tourism industry) and accept their German Saxe-Coburg and Gotha historical name. For good, sound logical reasons (survival) the name was changed from Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to the more English Windsor in 1917. This was because of anti-German sentiment in the British Empire during World War I.

    • bluegalway

      “The Eurobarometer poll reveals that the top three concerns for Irish citizens are immigration (41pc), terrorism (33pc), and the state of public finances (21pc).” – Irish Independent, Dec’ 23.
      And is anybody talking about immigration in Ireland? Any debate?
      Of course not.
      And no. Muslims do NOT want to integrate anywhere in Western countries or indeed non-Muslim countries. Next year is election year in Sweden.
      In 2014 the general election there saw a 13.1% vote for the labelled far right anti-mass immigration Sweden Democrats. Today their support is 27.1%. And now the moderates are openly talking about going into coalition with them.
      Muslims are not happy in Gaza, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan.
      So, where are they happy?
      Australia, England, Belgium, France, Italy, Germany, Sweden, the USA & Canada. They’re happy in Norway & India. They’re happy in almost every country that is not Islamic. And who do they blame? Not Islam… Not their leadership… Not themselves… THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN. And they want to change the countries they’re happy in, to be like the countries they came from and where they were unhappy.
      Countries such as Sweden and Germany have spent billions of euros on integration programmes – to no avail.
      As black Briton and former head of the UK Commission for Racial Eqaulity, Trevor Phillips, said in his Channel 4 programme in 2015, and again last year:
      “Muslim communities are not like others in Britain and the country should accept they will never integrate.
      “The dangerously misguided’ liberal elite are unwilling to acknowledge that some communities resist integration and a minority are actively opposed to British values and behaviour.”
      He said he was worried at the chasm between British Muslims and their compatriots on issues such as marriage, segregation, freedom of speech and violence in defence of religion.
      “Continuously pretending that a group is somehow eventually going to become like the rest of us is perhaps the deepest form of disrespect.
      “Because what you are essentially saying is the fact that they behave in a different way, some of which we may not like, is because they haven’t yet seen the light. It may be that they see the world differently to the rest of us.”

      • Mike Marketing

        Yes Bluegalway some very practical points made.

        My simple view is “When in Rome.”

        The other is to think of the challenge of setting up a new US style evangelical Christian church in, for example, Saudi Arabia. You would have two chances:
        1. Very, very slim and 2. None.

        Through it all I believe retention of ones sense of humour is the road to sanity.

        A friend recently sent me this logical piece:

        “Pat: Jiggs McDonald, NHL Hall of Fame broadcaster speaking in Ontario, says:

        “I am truly perplexed that so many of my friends are against another mosque being built in Toronto. I think it should be the goal of every Canadian to be tolerant regardless of their religious beliefs. Thus the mosque should be allowed, in an effort to promote tolerance.”

        “That is why I also propose that two nightclubs be opened next door to the mosque; thereby promoting tolerance from within the mosque. We could call one of the clubs, which would be gay, “The Turban Cowboy,” and the other, a topless bar, would be called “You Mecca Me Hot.”

        “Next door should be a butcher shop that specializes in pork, and adjacent to that an open-pit barbecue pork restaurant, called “Iraq of Ribs.”

        “Across the street there could be a lingerie store called “Victoria Keeps Nothing Secret,” with sexy mannequins in the window modeling the goods”, and on the other side a liquor store called “Morehammered.”

        “All of this would encourage Muslims to demonstrate the tolerance they demand of us.”

        Yes we should promote tolerance, and you can do your part by passing this on.

        And if you are not laughing or smiling at this point…It is either past your bedtime, or its midnight at the oasis and time to put your camel to bed.”

        • mcsean2163

          I had a very good Muslim friend, (really nice guy), an he never, NEVER demanded tolerance of me.

          Do you think perhaps Muslims don’t fit in because unlike non Muslim countries it seems most Muslim countries are actually under attack.

          The Irish in the states didn’t give up on the Irish looking to break away from the British. The didn’t just fit in and forget.

          Good grief this place….

          • Mike Marketing

            Look mcsean2163, whether or not ‘tolerance’ is demanded is not the issue. In fact that would be a self-defeating strategy by Islamists if tried.

            The core issue is respect; shown by all human kind for each other. If that respect is not there then bellicose problems arise. It is summed up in a core Christian value (often unpracticed) of “love your neighbour as yourself.”

          • Mike Marketing

            Look mcsean2163, whether or not ‘tolerance’ is demanded is not the issue. In fact that would be a self-defeating strategy by Islamists if tried.

            The core issue is respect; shown by all human kind for each other. If that respect is not there then bellicose problems arise. It is summed up in a core Christian value (often unpractised) of “love your neighbour as yourself.”

  3. nothisrealname

    Whether immigrants fit in or not makes no difference to the fact that we are over loading our systems and services. An open ecomony a small country opening to huge countries with many times our population can overwhelm us. The middle class posters here are often not in the frontline of what this means at the coalface where immration impacts most,or where the rubber meets the road so to speak. Us working class probably know personally many more immigrants than people who would call us racists. I personally like a lot of immigrants as I would irish. The fact this unlimited immigration has completely uundermined our ability to bargain in the workplace. Mimimum wage here is often multiples of what it is in the immigrants homeland. People who voted Brexit Trump or Le Pen are not nescessarily big supporters, but are hitting out at a system that is crushing them.

    • SMOKEY

      Very good points. But also David isnt talking aobut the real problem and that is political CORRECTNESS being shoved down our throat by guys like the loser who heads the GREEN party. The complete lack of leadership from anyone in Government DEMANDING the assimilation of its immigrants is at the core of the issue. And so called Travellers should be held to the same standard too while Im at it. We dont need to understand you peering out from behind a batman mask, I DONT WANT TO TALK TO ANYONE BEHIND A VEIL. This purposeful destruction of keeping the glue of a nation, its language, borders and culture, together is what will destroy Ireland. Allowing young thieves to roam towns in the name of “Travellers Culture” is tantamount to allowing radicals who would strap a bomb on their chests in the name of Allah to mass murder in Cork city center. It will happen sooner rather than later if you dont get with me on this people. Understand your lives and childrens lives are being threatened by forcing you to be submissive to a dark force called political correctness. Your culture will be gone. Your language is already nearly gone. Your ability to earn a decent living is being chipped away at. Your nation will nothing more than an RTE controlled sermon on how you are a racist for not wanting to have your children read from the Koran and have your 12 year old daughters forced to shower with a boy in the school locker room because he feels like a girl. This is your future. This is a wake up call. Heed. If this makes you feel uncomfortable, tough shit Paddy. Im Steve Jackson,…and I agree,….with everything I say.

      • Tull McAdoo

        That’s the sort of comment I could imagine Willie o Dea coming out with and he sitting back in some pub in limerick, well tanked up, chatting with his FF pals and they lamenting the fact that De Valera and his insular protectionism has been lost.
        Anybody for a dance at the crossroad with a comely maiden……diddley fucking Daaaaa

        • Tull McAdoo

          Now ladies and gentlemen out ye climb from under yere rocks and fire at will.

          • EugeneN

            What do you expect people to react to? Your argument is both well poisoning and a strawman (the reference to Dev being the strawman). Basically your post is dropping with class and regional supremacism.

        • SMOKEY

          You are obviously a self hating Irishman without a family or any pride. I know your type, pissed off Trump is now in charge, listens to Ray D’Arcy, Montcrieff etc. Likes Dancing with the Stars. You know more about sports stats then about the plans your country has to bring in more Syrian refugees and permanently house, feed, medicate and educate them on social welfare BEFORE they house our own down and outs. You are weak. You are liberal. You smell of Lynx and think the Premier league is “great craic”. You are nothing but part of the politically correct who will be intolerant of anything except a total and complete hollowing out of Irish culture. You vote FG and Labour and wonder where it all went wrong. You are the enemy within, exposed for what you are, full of hate and spite for your countrymen and women. Pathetic.

        • nothisrealname

          Makes no difference to you Mr Tull Made a poo . Comely maidens would give you a second glance you ugly troll.

          • Tull McAdoo

            The truth of the matter SMOKEY, EugeneN, nothisrealname and others is that Ireland was an economic basket case in the 30’s, 50’s, 80’s and now the 00’s. In the first three periods, there were NO immigrants around to blame for Irelands woes and I for one don’t hold them responsible for today’s failures.

            The reason they are not to blame is that they held very few if any positions of power or influence across the economy. They were not well connected cronies of the major political parties. They were not standing in the Galway tent pissing out on the World with their talk of the “Irish economic miracle” as they were busy picking up the glasses and cleaning up the shit as nobody from Ireland wanted the menial jobs.

            Now that the whole house of cards has come tumbling down yet again, people are looking to blame anybody other than the gobshites that bought their votes and convinced them to leverage all they had in the best traditions of Ponzi economics.

            It’s only when the unemployment figures went through the roof that people noticed how little the “foreigners” were being paid, with most on minimum pay. Up to then nobody seemed to care about what foreigners were earning, valeting cars, mixing cement on building sites, waiting tables at golf clubs and hotels, child minding, cleaning and so forth.

            If Google, eBay or whatever multi-national brought some workers over to drive growth and they created a few hundred jobs they would be praised and it wouldn’t matter what the creative people’s nationality or religion was.

            Stop blaming foreigners for Irelands serial failures. Embrace change, cultural diversity and creativity. If Ireland can work with the diversity that is part and parcel of the European Union then surely it can work and respect the Pacific basin, Middle East, Asia etc.

          • Tull McAdoo

            I have work in Sydney, Melbourne, Toronto, Vancouver, Hong Kong, Frankfurt etc, over the course of my career and have found there cultural diversity to be one of there greatest strengths.

            These cities are without fail always voted the top cities in the World to live in.

          • Tull McAdoo

            Behavioural economics and organisational behavior would suggest that some of the common business failures that occur as a result of group think etc. are less likely in more diverse organisations.

          • Truthist

            @ Grzegorz

            Please explain very briefly ;
            As always, I wish that u are parsimonious with ur energy & time

            ” … how on earth we can cope with 15 million if people are homeless with 4.”

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            ” … how on earth we can cope with 15 million if people are homeless with 4.”

            The argument against Ireland going to 15 millions is often than we cannot cope with housing 4 million. But the reason for that is not that 4-5 million is too many, but because there is a property bubble and bad infrastructure.

            The second argument is that that would lead to serious overcrowding.

            But the overcrowding in some places in Dublin is not because there is too much destiny, but because there is not enough density: because Dublin is low height houses divided by vast, empty spaces of plain grass (despite Irish people loving gardens, as a rule new houses do not have any houses – just grass; in fact, there are more gardens in Poland than in Ireland as each person older than 50 has an allotment in town), therefore you get things in Ireland like 40 people living in that house in Rathimines, which would not happen in Poland.

            Officially, Ireland has a vast living space per person. Unofficially, poorer landlords are subletting it illegally, with one person having only one room or half of it, and rich landlords live in those vast spaces spending all there money on condsumption and property speculation.

            To summarise it, Ireland with 15 million people and proper planning and investment would lead to a country in which:

            - living and commuting in big cities would be more comfortable (if your are middle income and cannot afford renting/taking mortgage on a house, you would rent a 50 square metres apartment – not 200 metres house costing one million euro with 6 people in it)
            - more political clout (Merkel, US President envoys and British Prime Ministers would be coming to Ireland, like they are coming is to Poland – not the other way round)
            - economies of scale
            - more funds for bigger projects (metro)
            - less problems with pension system
            - less time wasting in traffic jams

            Population density (Number of people per square kilometer):

            1 Macau 20,848.01
            2 Monaco 15,254
            3 Singapore 7,987.52
            4 Hong Kong 6,442.65

            14 Guernsey 844.22
            15 Jersey 832.01

            18 Taiwan 649.25

            22 San Marino 536.75
            23 Korea, South 491.78

            28 Netherlands 406.26

            37 Belgium 342.29
            38 Japan 336.33

            50 United Kingdom 261.66
            54 Germany 226.87

            61 Italy 204.69
            63 Luxembourg 201.34

            86 Denmark 129.23

            88 Poland 122.64
            89 Portugal 117.43

            106 Syria (after war and refugee outflaw) 96.94

            113 Jordan 88.77
            114 Ethiopia 87.51
            115 Egypt 86.77
            116 Cambodia 85.39
            117 Burma 82.39
            118 Swaziland 81.76

            126 Bosnia and Herzegovina (after war) 75.62

            133 Samoa 69.46
            134 Senegal 69.32

            135 IRELAND 68.77

            136 United Arab Emirates 67.33

            Netherlands area in square miles = 16,040 16.8 million people

            Ireland’s area in square miles = 32,595

            Conclusion?

            34 million people could live in Ireland in Netherlands standards of housing (the quality of which is much, much higher than in Ireland)

            10-15 million people could live in Ireland very comfortably

            I hope you learned something today, Mike Marketing :-)

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            as a rule new houses do not have any houses = do not have any gardens

            A typical “garden” in a middle class Irish house:

            http://www.irishexaminer.com/remote/media.central.ie/media/images/b/BallinloughFeb4pic1_large.jpg?width=648&s=ie-442029

            A typical garden of a low income class person in Poland (like my mum’s):

            http://pzd.pl/uploads/images/DSC01168.JPG

        • Mike Marketing

          So tell us all what your solution is Tull McAdoo?

          • Tull McAdoo

            My solution. Simple. Let the police force who should be well trained and equipped and not corrupt deal with any infringements of the law, should they occur. Hold those responsible irrespective of colour, race, religious calling, etc. to account.

            Otherwise let people get on with their lives and give up that old nonsense of trying to micro manage them. I could care less whether people wear a Bib or a Hajib or a Manchester United tee shirt or even a flat cap like the Healy-Rae’s.

            It is way past time that Ireland’s chattering classes got on with their own lives. Give up that old “Valley of the squinting windows”, peeping out from behind the curtains, nudge and a wink, cute hoor, live in your pocket, parochial parish pump cod-ology.

            That’s what I think.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          “If that’s Irish culture they can keep it” – Ireland has a high cultural and very cultural people, I have experienced that itself.
          The problem with Ireland is not that it does not have a high culture, but that the high culture in Ireland is pushed to backstage, or maybe even to underground – and the main stage is, everywhere you go, taken by by shouting idiots.

          I blame the fact that we have media monopoli here. Ireland should have 30 different channels: fair competition, no TV license.
          If people had a real choice, the minority would tune in to listen to shouting idiots.

          After all, in 19th century, the dream of low classes was to be high classes. Now, the dream of high classes is to be low classes (be-bb-bee-Bertie), and the low classes emulate that.
          So everyone is low, apart from the invisible.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            high cultural = high culture

            informal meetings for example, and I do not mean Molesworth St, conveniently located perpendicular to the Dail

          • Mike Marketing

            Yes Grzegorz Kolodziej, and a population of 10 – 15 million to support your wish-list and pay for it all.

            Economies of scale old boy, ‘economies of scale.”

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            At the beginning of 19th century, Irish population was twice the US. Ireland was not better off when the proportion changed drastically 50 years later.

            I know that 10-15 million may seem a very radical idea: it is not. This is Benelux level of density, and these countries had been doing very well with that density, until they started to experiment with “willkommen” to radical islams.

            It is very difficult for a country to grow and prosper in a demographic collapse environment (in fact, I am not aware of any such case in worlds history with reproduction rate before 1.3).
            But in a current money system, this is not difficult – it is IMPOSSIBLE.

            But you might think: well, how on earth we can cope with 15 million if people are homeless with 4?

            You are right.
            We cannot.
            We will sink.
            Therefore I say: the whole system needs to be changed, starting from interest rates, and how and on what basis people vote.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Mike Marketing,

            “I hope you learned something today, Mike Marketing :-)”

            I hope you gathered that I did not mean it in a “smart ass” sort of way (hence the emoticon) – what I mean is that “I hope that all that information was helpful to you”.

            “Politeness is to human nature what warmth is to wax.”

            Arthur Schopenhauer (my favourite philosophers among those I, in some significant aspects, disagree with).

            In fact when I was in my primary school and visited Gdansk with my mum, I preferred to go and see the flat he lived rather than the seaside.

            We found it.
            It was empty, and no one knew anything about it. I guess that has changed now.

            https://dertausendfuesslerroman.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/geburtshaus-von-arthur-schopenhauer-in-danzig-jens-bc3b6hme-zeigt-auf-das-haus.jpg

            Btw, did yous know that Gda?sk/Danzig (at the time autonomy within the Kingdom of Poland, with no tariffs and taxes on trade within Poland, Lithuania and Ruthenia – present day Belarus and Ukraine) was one of the most important destinations for English travelling players in the first half of the 17th century?:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gda%C5%84sk_Shakespeare_Theatre

            I have found that out from… an Irishman from Co. Sligo!

    • Deco

      I see an alliance of the parasitic extractors.

      Dodgy bankers, dodgy businessmen who get favoured treatment by the FG party, dodgy cults, military expansionist, journalists, legal parasites, etc….

      All demanding a more expansive state system to control the populace and ensure their compliance whilst the extract “something for nothing” from the rest of the populace.

      All that is needed to ensure it occurs, is an effective moral pretence, and control of information to prevent dissent.

  4. a_tech_hed

    Integrating large numbers like that is next to impossible. If all immigrants are housed together it’s not English they’ll be speaking to start with. That makes it very difficult for even the best integration policies to work when their basic communication skills are never used.

    Since over 80% of the immigrants are male you’d expect them to have a better chance of marrying local women. I wonder how many European women would considering marrying a Muslim man from the middle east though. I reckon they’d be few and far between.

    And finally, how many immigrants are able to separate us from the people that bombed their country? My mates were mugged in Serbia a few years back by a gang of off-duty police that assumed they were British/NATO.

    • Deco

      You accidently omitted the topic of a muslim woman marrying a non-muslim.

      It is forbidden.

      However, there have been instances of it going on in India, where women who have been raised in muslim families, have fallen in love with Hindu men, and then eloped.

      The couple then move a safe distance, to never be seen again because if her family sees them, they will be obliged to kill her, because the religious experts advocate it.

  5. when your city has no go zones because of occupation by radical immigrants then integration is not happening. Just the reverse. In that case shut the doors until the current problems are solved.
    The middle east countries that had secular states were ruled by strong arm dictators. Then there was freedom of religion.
    NATO bombed these countries to rubble, for whatever reasons creating millions of displaced people who now look for a home and overrun the very countries that bombed them.
    We created the mayhem. We created the refugee mass migration, We created the radical Islamic response.

    “As yea sow, so shall yea reap.”

    My problem is I did not agree with the former policies and now have to put up with the results. That does not mean I have to like it.

    This yet again is the result of policies fomented by the central banker cabal. They want to control the world. (The first thing the Libyan rebels asked for and receive was a central bank). They do not care how they do it. Create discention, produce chaos, provide the solution. Break the nation state and rule with an iron fist.

    Immigrants that do not assimilate are a part of their plan to obtain one world governance.

  6. Deco

    Respectfully, sir I disagree with the entire starting position of your argument.

    If you want integration, then you must ask those who arrive, to make some effort to integrate.

    This has been completely ignored by the entire article.

    In fact, David has gone to enormous lengths to ignore the role of religious experts in the particular community, to ensure that their own access to resources and priveleges is protected, even if it means dividing society.

    And that is the root of what we are seeing.

    The religious preaching class/profession are surrounded by more evidence than ever before that the basis of their profession is utter nonsense. In response, they do everything in their power to control their community, availing of legal codes from the 7th century, to buttress their arguments.

    The article, effects a request to avoid any discussion of the core subject matter of a belief system that is reacting aggressively to all others on the planet, as a means of survival.

    This is the basis of the violence that we see.

    It is best described in the following way “men will fight, murder and die, rather than review their opinions”.

    The enlightenment is at stake. It is worth more than the price of a barrel of oil.

    • Deco

      The policies that have been applied, leave the religious class that need to control the believers, in a position of being above any criticism.

      That is the problem.

      The way to end this is not via appeasement.

      But via open discussion that will liberate the people in those communities from the religious experts, and the text that is deemed to above any form of objective criticism.

    • Deco

      There are no policies that will work, which have already failed, merely by re-running them again.

      The only way to resolve this is to stop pussyfooting around, and making it clear that in the West, any person can leave any religious community, and never fear retribution from those that remain in it.

      An open discussion is sufficient.

      But – this is not deemed acceptable by the key players in OPEC.

    • Mike Marketing

      Thank you goldbug.

      “Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs – NumbersUSA.com” – illuminating and educational. Makes it a ‘health & safety’ issue.

      The best strategy to follow is probably: ” You give a poor man a fish and you feed him for a day. You teach him to fish and you give him an occupation that will feed him for a lifetime.”

      And succeeding generations.

  7. goldbug

    WHEN WILL THE PC CROWD USE LOGIC?

    -> THE DEMOGRAPHIC DISASTER THAT IS BREWING IN SWEDEN

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35444173

  8. Deco

    Do Scientologists fit in ? Or Mormons ? [ I would argue that they do not actually – it is in the nature of that which they operate – except that there is one limiti to them – they do not advocate religion and political ideology and law to be one and the same – with no seperation between them.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CADoG-gu5Zk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_9QVraitjY&t=497s

    If the root of the media outlook remains low interest rates regardless of all else, (in other words ‘greed’) then the media will of course bow to cheap hydrocarbons.

    To those that live within the community of believers, there is no diversity of opinion.

    Diversity of opinion is over-ruled, because the religious experts have already dictated that the only opinion that really matters is that of a dead man from 14 centuries back.

    Now, if that opinion was of a philospher like Aristotle or Confucius, then perhaps that perspective might be useful.

    But frankly, it is not. It is deeply divisive, is derogatory of all other beliefs, advocates the supremacy of men over women to a more harsh degree than any other ever invented.

    The educated, and learned response to any such belief system is to examine if it is flawed, and needs remedying. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has already advocated that this is the way forward.

    For making this salient point, her life is in danger.

    We are once again dealing with a political ideology promising a paradise in the next life, rather than this one (which is what Communism and Bernaysian Consumerism hold to the human being as the objective of existence).

    This is actually much more destructive, in that it allows even less introspection or debate.

    Life is never so simple that it can be reduced to the contents of one book. And if any body of mankind ever thought that life could be explained by one book, then then could find themselves on a journey to failure, and destruction.

    Pol Pot tried to turn back the clock in the 1970s. There was no need for debate or intellectual discourse. Pol Pot did not have the world’s cheapest oil well to sell his ideas to media conglomerates on tight margins or universities selling over-rated degree courses in need of cash. It was simplification of the route to advocate simplification. And it failed quickly.

    Complexification of the route to simplification fails, in a rather more sinister, and dangerous manner. Of course it protects the incomes and the financing of people who participate. But the overall effect on societal debate is absent.

    Wilders should not ban any books. That is insulting the intelligence of all humans.

    What is needed is a more objective critique of the subject matter, and a reflection on whether or not the core of the belief system is appropriate for the modern age.

    That is essential for all learning, and represents the route forward.

    Appeasement does not represent the way forward. Neither does control of the argument, via media conditioning of the dicussion. No, the way forward is to open the argument, and ask the serious questions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSvyv0urTE

    I don’t agree with Le Pen or Wilders.

    But, the mainstream political and media are abdicating their responsibilities, for the sake of the the happy motoring economy.

    They have promised us heaven on earth, via Ponzinomics, just like the Communists tried the same thing 40 years ago via central planning.

    In both cases, the political careerists experimented with political power, and have produced long term problems.

    The West is literally over a barrel – a barrel of crude.

    And the political and media establishments that rushed us into this conundrum have no intention of being honest about where they got us.

  9. Adelaide

    Has David become a social justice warrior snowflake?

    Eh, so, David is saying, muslims not integrating, is a problem, but the real BIG problem, is society’s adverse reaction to the initial problem, which can obviously be labelled as anti-muslim and therefore far-right, and FAR-RIGHT is a HUMUMFOUS problem.

    So the problem, is not the muslims, it is us. Yep, it is snowflake time.

    Kudos for printing what is unmentionable in Mass fake news Media, muslims do not integrate, their ‘religion’ forbids them, nevermind, within two generations the outnumbered locals in Sweden, Belgium and France will have to integrate into Islam or face the sword.

    The first European migrants seeking safety from violence will be the Swedes, It’s already beginning, Hungary and Poland is getting the first trickle. Paris, Brussels and Malmo have just passed the demographic tipping point to full Islamisation. The omens all point to an inevitable civil-war style blood bath on continental Europe. Mercifully I think Ireland will escape it, there is one advantage is being a poor crappy isolated country.

  10. patricia03

    We are having a similar arguement here in New Zealand but not about Muslims more about the Chinese. New Zealand is a land of immigrants so what was so different in the earlier days? As a 77 year old I can only remember the complaints about the English – the Wingeing Poms they were called. But after WW11 immigration here, unlike Australia, was controlled. We had a lot of Dutch in the 1950s and, if I remember rightly, they were sent to the small towns where they were provided with jobs and it was the responsibility of the local community to look after them and make sure they were welcome. But now It is different. However I think we are confusing culture with racism. Imagine if 1m Americans came here – god forbid – our culture would alter overnight. Culture is a developing thing but if you just regard your country as a place for people to live then you will end up with no culture – just a lot of transient people who buy and sell houses. The following article is so much more eloquent than I can be but it does explain the writer’s views on the difference so well. http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2016/11/culture-matters/

  11. Deco

    https://youtu.be/RqaIgeQXQgI

    Stockholm Syndrome.

    [ And by the way, disregarding this problem, there is a chronic debt problem in Sweden - but it is now becomming politically incorrect to even state any evidence that the Swedish economy is a debt fuelled Ponzi-scheme, about to collapse. ]

    • How close to collapse is it Deco in temporal terms?

      • Deco

        Given the scale of debt, it could happen at any point.

        Real estate prices are absurd, in Stockholm. They are comparable to London except – there is far less sustainability to the business model in Stockholm. Income tax is much higher, so the propensity to pay off debt early, or to save and use that as a cushion is absent.

        Swedish banks were bailed out before. But the evidence indicates that they have returned to previous failed strategies, as they continue to issue unsustainable loans.

        It is now a question of events that could trigger the debt being seen as it truly exists.

        To make matters worse the central bank of Sweden is of the opinion that deposits are too high, and saving should be penalised. Which means that ultimately this must be funded by external sources who will accept a low rate of return.

        What happens when those funds providers request a higher rate of return, or find an alternative investment ?

        The music stops, and the game of musical chairs comes to an end.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      But Swedish bank system has already collapsed in the 90s. Unlike the Irish banking system, they reformed (not only in that area). Of course none of that will help them now if you look at what is going on in Malmo (“look where” though, as no one covers it – I have an acquaintance living in Sweden, so I know first hand). We have been told for years by the likes of Vincent Browne that Ireland should follow the Swedish model. Does he mean: the first place in the world when it comes to rapes per capita? I do not know about Mr Browne, but not everyone desires to be raped.
      Maybe we should take some refugees from Sweden? For instance tall blondies.

      • Sweden Economy Data
        2011 2012 2013 2014 2015
        Population (million) 9.5 9.6 9.6 9.7 9.8
        GDP per capita (USD) 59,380 56,936 60,011 58,549 50,126

        GDP has dropped from 59300 per capita to 50,126 in 4 years
        = -15.47% , A substantial drop.

        • Deco

          I did not know that GDP was dropping.

          However, one thing that is evident is that debt is rising.

          And if debt is rising, and income is not rising at the same speed, then quickly that becomes a financing problem. This scenario is symptomatic of a resource misallocation.

          We seen the same thing in Ireland in the Trichet boom years.

          If income is dropping, then it is game over.

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi Deco.

            I really really like the quality of your posts. One response though;

            “If income is dropping, then it is game over”

            No It isn’t not as quick as you think let me explain. The government can bring in wealth taxes which have to be paid even if income is dropping. the us has been using it’s military industrial complex to asset strip the world to balance the balance sheet since Nixon took the us dollar of the gold standard. Another thing they could do like here is introduce a 1 child policy. Introduce a 20% deposit requirement for the purchase of a trade up house making it impossible to do so will force the locals to curtail their family sizes at 1 child. This will keep herself working keeping the income tax on her salary flowing to the guburnement.

            Think about the last bit particularly.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            “And if debt is rising, and income is not rising at the same speed, then quickly that becomes a financing problem.”

            Of course, of course – recently I pointed out the background to the “winter of discontent” (to put it very mildly) in Poland AD 1981: if you borrowed money at 5%, your growth is 4%, and the interest rate goes up to 20% – and, to make it worse, a generation of demographic decline has just reached the age of 18, then the result was empty shops and people queing up for a few hours to buy meat.

            “It bloody hurts to look around
            Everywhere in chicken town
            The bloody train is bloody late
            You bloody wait you bloody wait
            You’re bloody lost and bloody found
            Stuck in fucking chicken town”

            BUT

            I think you did not take one thing into account, Deco: in an interconnected fiat currency system you have to look not only on how much is the debt rising compared to income, but on how BOTH of them are rising compared to OTHER countries where debt/GDP ratio is rising faster than income.

            And after their banking collapse in the 90s, Sweden has still a way to go compared to, say, Britain:

            Sweden/Government debt
            40.6% of GDP (2013)

            Czech Republic
            46%

            Finland
            57.0%

            Poland/Government debt
            57.0% of GDP (Poland has in its constitution that debt cannot exceed 60% of GDP, and if it does, there are automatic cuts in spending).

            Austria
            74.5%

            Germany
            78.4%

            United Kingdom/Government debt
            90.6% of GDP (2013)

            France
            93.5%

            US
            104.17%
            ?
            Republic of Ireland/Government debt
            123.7% of GDP (2013)

            albeit it went down a few percent during FG reign due to Minister Noonan accounting trick he learned from Polish Tusk’s PO crooked former Finance Minister Rostowski (British Citizen with a background in the City) to include in Ireland’s GDP incomes from stolen goods, selling drugs and prostitution; PO’s Rostowski was voted by FT Europe’s Finance Minister of the year after applying this trick in Poland, and Poles did not vote for PO any more having found out about that and other things.

            Italy 132.70%

            Lebanon 139%

            Greece 176.9%

            Japan 229.20%

            China
            250%

            https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/16/chinas-debt-is-250-of-gdp-and-could-be-fatal-says-government-expert

            Romania/Government debt
            38.4% of GDP (2013)

            Bulgaria
            18.9% of GDP (2013)

            Russia
            17.7%

            Iran
            14.86%

            Nigeria
            14.65%

            Estonia
            9.48%

            Afganistan
            6.7%

            Hong-Kong
            0.06%

            Macao
            0%

            Exodus 22:25 says: “If you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor, you shall not be like a moneylender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him”

            The Bible never speaks of debt as a sin, but there are clear references to debt as “slavery.” Borrowing money is never encouraged in the scriptures, and when Moses spoke to the people of Israel, borrowing from others was listed as a consequence of disobedience.

            Dude – that’s pretty cool, isn’t it?
            I think that Exodus is on the ball and sucking diesel.

          • Deco

            Michael – West Germany has a one child policy. And they are obsessed with the superficial badges of consumerism. And they trust government to run everything for them. And they are obsessed with having cash piles to pass on to the one son.

            And everybody obeys the instructions that they were given.

            Germany’s little Kaiser phenomenon ?

            There is a fascinating lack of dissent in a society that finds itself having enormous economic clout in the politics of the EU.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Also, the one child policy in China led to a disaster – first, massive abortions (often plain killings b o r n girl babies), then massive army of frustrated, young, single men (in China, lending agencies are booming where you can – for lots of money – hire a girl just to introduce her to your parents as you “fiance” – she is only obliged to talk and smile, nothing else), now – as a result of that policy, among other things – enormous debt crisis (no internal demand, so capital is allocated abroad, pumping up stock and property prices in London).

            Because China was started from much lower debt and public spending than the West, and the West has expensive state pensions system (especially in countries like Germany) and no manufacturing except for a few countries (Germany, Netherlands, Czech Republic), one-child policy in the West would lead to those countries being poorer than Bulgaria in two generations…

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi Deco,

            I am at a loss to understand what you mean by west germany and a one child policy? I am a bit slower on the uptake you might elaborate?

            Anyway like I suspected some blind ignorant madman asshole like suds would sooner or later advocate for a 1 child policy;

            https://www.quora.com/Is-it-about-time-for-the-Western-world-to-introduce-a-one-child-policy-or-in-a-similar-way-attempt-to-control-population-growth-Why

            I bet it’s being implemented already!

            No doubt truthist will do a predictable solo run posting endless diatribes of unadulterated shite about freemasons and Rotschilds!

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi Gresgorze,

            “and the West has expensive state pensions system (especially in countries like Germany) and no manufacturing except for a few countries (Germany, Netherlands, Czech Republic), one-child policy in the West would lead to those countries being poorer than Bulgaria in two generations”

            Precisely. Suits the banks down to the ground as they will concentrate the capital released from being deployed for the benefit of family units. The same thing happen here during the referendum on gay marriage the result was the legislation led to a weakening of the sacredness of the family unit as the building blocks of a society.

          • Deco

            Michael, the US Hedge Fund manager used to make a joke about Japan, and it’s age profile.

            He called it Japan’s One Child policy.

            Well, people born in the former West Germany are having smaller families than even Japan.

            Now perhaps it is a result of long term consumerism, and this shows the starkest contrast.

            A few years ago, there was a book published called “Affluenza”. It concerned a virus that goes around infecting people, and changing their values and lives.

            Well, anyway, Western Germany and Japan are the demographic leaders for the industrialized world.

            Yes – societis can become EXTREMELY prosperous.

            But at what cost, if the society is achieving this at the cost of eliminating itself ?

            Maybe we have seen the ultimate sick joke of the growth delusion ?

            This would have implications. Implications like saying that Trump is better to allow Mexican manufacturing to thrive, and to stop talking about getting tough on trade with the PRC.

            Maybe the monetary obsessions is absurd.

          • I do not think that a one child policy is in force. There is no correlation to large families and development of wealth. There is no correlation to small families and poverty.

            All the rich societies became rich because they unleashed the human capital of inventiveness, thrift, morel structure, and pain hard work.

            without exception all these rich countries have fallen to the lure of socialism and all use centralize planning and central monopoly banking.

            It is the economic fact that the failure these policies produce results in people not being able to afford children. In addition there is now the option to be rid of any further encumbrances with family planning that prevents conception and provides abortion.

            We have the bizarre situation where the very advocates of family planning are the advocates for immigration. This is a suicide wish collectively for Western Societies.

            The only real long term solution is to remove centralize controls and allow people the freedom to look after themselves.

            Let us return to the basic tenets of capitalism that have been obstructed for a 100 years.

            We have to remove the central banking system as it is the source of all the debt laboriously discussed on this blog. Without the central banking debt based money there would be no debt in the economy on balance.
            Money needs to be returned to the people to be able use whatever they wish for a medium of exchange. Any national currency can be issued from treasury for no cost. The national mint can issue coin as they already do.

            In short. Socialism ruins any economy and pauperizes the people. Controlled money is a part of socialism. Decontrolling the money is a start in the right direction. Freedom is the issue. We are bound in debt as economic serfs. Society is dying in front of your eyes. Declining birth rates are the result.

          • michaelcoughlan

            @ Tony Brogan,

            “I do not think that a one child policy is in force. There is no correlation to large families and development of wealth. ”

            You of all people shouldn’t have made an error like this let me explain;

            Your central thesis other than gold is that the money supply must continually expand or the whole thing goes to shit.

            So in order to do this there must be constant economic expansion. OK?

            Next. Capital employed on raising human beings in families gets in the way of economic expansion and the necessary creation of wealth does it not? Banks response;

            Convince the human beings that we need to reduce the world population size to save the environment but our real agenda is to save the system!

            Don’t believe me?

            I know this alex guy in infowars is a nutter but…………..

            http://www.infowars.com/eugenics-alert-world-bank-population-reduction-lending-schemes-already-underway/

            http://www.infowars.com/world-bank-threatens-drastic-steps-necessary-if-nations-refuse-population-reduction-implementation/

          • michaelcoughlan

            In other words Tony,

            Humanity is being made to serve the machine and not the other way around ever since Nixon took America off the Gold standard!

            It is a real pity that the guy in charge is a bonbon, bernanke, suds, type looper and impossible to take seriously.

            Michael.

          • Michael

            Your quote “Your central thesis other than gold is that the money supply must continually expand or the whole thing goes to shit.”

            This is completely wrong. My central thesis, if you wish to call it that, is that it is not a requirement to increase the money supply to enlarge the economy. I have gone further to say that expanding the money supply causes the inflationary problems we have today and is a direct hindrance to making proper economic decisions and the result is malinvestment and a failed economy.

            You totally miss represent my statements.

      • GDP (USD bn) 563 544 579 571 493

        2011 2012 2013 2014 2015

        Actual Swedish GDP in USD billions for years 2011-2015

  12. coldblow

    I just wrote a short letter to the Sindo, my first letter to a newspaper in twenty-odd years, following Eilis O’Hanlon’s article about Irish attitudes to immigration.

    She states that more than one in ten of the people living in Ireland were born outside the country. I pointed out that the OECD figure (on their ‘Ireland’ website) is 17.2%. So she was correct in what she said as she would have been correct to say it was more than one in fifty. On the other hand it would have also have been correct to say more than one in six. The Irish rate of recent immigration is nearly treble that of other OECD countries. Ireland is currently seventh in the OECD in terms of immigration. This won’t include the Brazilian ‘students’ and all the rest.

    O’Hanlon (an introvert it seems) is one of the more sensible Sindo journalists (although she can’t resist the obligatory jibe at SF) and unlike writers such as Eoghan Harris, who I believe can’t be held responsible for what he chooses to believe. And this makes her article all the more depressing.

    While there is a refugee element in the immigration wave it is not that significant, in my opinion. While Harris gets worked up about Syrian women fleeing rape most now accept (what was clear from the very start) that this is an economic thing. A Nigerian girl writing on the same page as O’Hanlon confirms this. She didn’t want to leave Nigeria as a four-year-old and go to Co. Clare but friends of her parents were already settled in the county and told them it was a nice quite place to come and live. It was hard to make a living in Nigeria and Ireland was an opportunity to improve their lives. However she felt very much an outsider at secondary school so Ireland needs to change its mentality to help outsiders who choose to some and settle here. I assume her parents alleged some kind of persecution in Nigeria to be let in but we don’t get to know about these things.

    I will repeat this again. This is a psychological thing. It is also ideological but it has to be psychological. Why else are journalists like David so insistent on encouraging immigration? This is the starting point of the debate when it should be at the other end. It is Paddy Last yet again, just when other countries are starting to realize that they have committed a terrible mistake Ireland jumps in at the very end and tries to outdo them.

    If we can admit poor Nigerians then why not poor Chinese too? There are billions of them.

    I am reading Ed West’s The Diversity Illusion again and it is depressing. By 2066 it is expected that the English will be a minority in their own country. This is the first time that such a thing has been undertaken voluntarily and not imposed by military conquest. Ireland knows all about that but has forgotten already. The English people were never consulted about mass immigration any more than the Irish. If they had been they would have refused it at every stage, as would the Irish.

    Why is immigration a taboo in the press? Not just in Ireland but everywhere else too by the sound of it. Certainly in Britain it has been a taboo subject for forty or fifty years, perhaps sixty. Is the psychological imperative so strong that they will risk a fascist backlash rather than be the first to break rank and call a halt.

    It is unbelievably stupid and dishonest. It can only be understood, or begin to be understood, in terms of the unique fantasy world of political correctness, one more example of taboo, hysteria and intolerance. What a hangover we have in store when it wears off. Will there be mass repatriation? Who can tell? Who would want to be part of it? Why bring the problem onto ourselves in the first place? What a mess.

    David should at least be commended for discussing the subject, albeit in a partisan way. The reason most people are ‘in the middle’ is because they don’t know anything about it. For example, Harris waa on about the misinformation that the French people are getting about demographic trends. As in the Trump case the purveyors of fake news accuse their opponents of it. We shouldn’t have to worry about integrating Muslims (or others) because they shouldn’t be coming here in the first place. Wars are no worse now than they were in previous decades and there was never any suggestion of admitting waves of ‘refugees’. There will be more in the future. Ireland will have used up, has used up, all its space for deserving cases in a mere few years.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      “While there is a refugee element in the immigration wave it is not that significant, in my opinion.”

      It was not so far (only 17 refugees settled, then this figure went up to 43), but it will be now: the government announced a plan to settle in Ireland 4,000 refugees from God knows where (I wrote about it recently). In fact, the recent battle of gang of 250 on Henry St on Stephen’s Day might have been a result of it, deducting from very vague descriptions (this is not to say that Ireland does not have its own native gangs).

      “Certainly in Britain it has been a taboo subject for forty or fifty years, perhaps sixty”

      I would not agree though that the immigration has been a taboo in the UK – on the contrary, prior to Brexit, I cannot recall browsing through an issue of any British newspaper right of “Guardian” that would not have at least one page on immigration, usually on the first page (“The Sun” or “The Daily Mail” would often have 3-4 pages).

      The are other topics that are taboo in the UK (London City laundering money for Columbian drug cartels might be one of them, freemasonary in British courts and police is another – in Blair era, there was actually a court order to reveal membership of policemen and judges and they… ignored it), but immigration was pretty much the main topic in Britain last year… Leaving single market was a taboo too – no one pro-Brexit really dared to tell their electorate that the UK would have to leave the single market (well, I did, and I told them why) – UKiP has plainly lied on that (i.e. the respected Mr Daniel Hannan). Of course, this might not look like a great deal (return to WTO tariffs – until they realise that means the end of the City). When you follow the discussions in the UK, you’ll notice to your amazement that no one, but absolutely no one there read that bloody Lisbon Treaty, and all of them: UKiP, Tories, Corbyn, BBC, etc are only now finding out what it actually says: I watched a funny discussion of top UKiP and top Labour politcian whereby they referred to Article 8, but none of them read it).

      Except of course if there never is a Brexit (will the EU even last till they finally leave?).

      This is David’s first article with such an unequivocal stance on Muslims and integration, so I’d go easy on him… There is another shocking statistic: in France, according to their surveys, most Muslims (that includes French) would n o t report an Al-Kaida suspect to the police.

      • coldblow

        Grezgorz

        I only used to buy the Observer when I was an adult living in England (until age 29) and that paper would never have questioned the desirability or morality of mass immigration. I continued reading it until about 2008 but could not imagine paying money for it now. A friend and colleague of mine in Dublin (and daily Guardian communicant – he used to read it while walking to work) also ‘took’ the Observer but gave up in utter disgust after Christopher Hitchens wrote a critical article about Muslims. I remembered having read the article myself but nothing ‘jumped out at me’, as they say. This was before the Iraq invasion.

        As a child my father used to buy the Sketch and later the Daily Mail. I don’t recall this all that well though the Mail at least would have been critical. However I don’t recall them calling for a ban (I could be wrong). I don’t recall any debate on television. None at school or university either, where the students all demonstrated for ‘disinvestment’ in South Africa (my own absence was noted). Part of the reason to avoid debate was probably to spare the feelings of the large numbers who had already arrived. I Ireland we seem to be going down the route of sparing their feelings before and while they arrive. The smiles may vanish once they are all here (they will never ‘all’ be here as the future is boundless). This is, to quote another phrase, ‘a bit Irish’.

        I’ll check with my West book tonight. He made the point that it was taboo in England so I’ll have another look. He may well have been referring to the ‘quality press’ (what Peter Hitchens calls ‘the unpopular press’) or the ‘broadsheets’.

        I know that frank opposition to mass immigration was once an opinion that it possible for a respectable person to hold in Britain. (Of course this is no longer possible as it is now means you are a ‘racist’, whatever that word means.) however, once yobbish elements and football hooligans took over this changed.

        I haven’t noticed David calling for us to have ‘a mature debate’ (yet another cliché: I will translate. It means a public rally to rubber stamp what has already been decided, once the authorities know it is safe so to do.)

        Certainly in Ireland I have never seen any criticism in print of the justness of mass immigration, as if there is nothing to discuss. Harris mentioned back in Sept 2015 that the selfish and racist elements of ‘Middle Ireland’ had been encouraged by such articles but I never saw them. I suspect he is making a mountain out of a molehill there, perhaps they only existed in his imagination (I am only half-joking). Talking of Harris, following O’Hanlon’s article yesterday (where she described as ‘more than one in 10′ what would more accurately be rendered by ‘almost one in 5′) I went to have a look at the figures he gave last week about the size of the Muslim ‘community’, but it seems you now have to pay to read Indo articles. By the way, during the Troubles Private Eye used to refer to ‘the bombing community’.

        My concern with immigrants is with all of them, not just Arabs or Pakistanis (I think this is what ‘Muslims’ translates as). They stick out because they are true to their beliefs, which is quite an admirable trait. I also admire their religious conviction, if not their doctrines. When my father was dying about sixteen months ago the doctor in charge was a Muslim. The hospital were pressurizing me to give permission to switch off the ventilator (I don’t know why they felt they needed permission) but, as my mother was holding out, I wasn’t going to agree either. In the end she asked the doctor what his god would do and he said they could switch it off and see what he decided. That was good enough for her.

        I have never got worked up about the security bit and Al Quaeda. David calling on the Muslim leaders to exercise influence is a bit daft. This kind of thing has never worked with anyone anywhere. Anyway, most of the attacks are carried out by low-lifes on cannabis who get carried away with something they have read on the internet.

        My point, as you know, though is not their faith but what they are doing here in the first place. I doubt very much they are the most deserving as those wouldn’t have the money to get a plane ticket, or bribe an ‘evil’ people-smuggler, or wangle a dodgy visa.

        When I was talking about the refugee element being relatively small I meant that they were overwhelmingly economic refugees, not so much fleeing something as trying to go somewhere. The media continue to present them as refugees. Refugees would seek temporary sanctuary in an adjoining safe country and return after the war. Ours are here to stay.

        While I am at it I’d just clarify for the benefit of other readers that I oppose mass immigration on conservative principles, that is to defend the local and the particular and to avoid an (even more) soulless and anomie-pervaded civilization where a country is just the physical location of a collection of unconnected individuals. (Was it someone on this thread who said ‘where people buy and sell houses’? It’s a nice phrase.) For me the death of a culture, or of a language, is like the extinction of an animal or bird. I am still grieving the decision of the tiny Paraha tribe in the Amazon to become regular Brazilians. They really did have a distinctive view of the world. This partly explains why the rhetoric about culture and diversity is so funny. I don’t think most of those who use it have a clue what it is.

        I’d like to see the Islamic manuscripts in Timbuctoo. I’d also like to be able to read them. I just don’t want to see mosques in Ireland. (Any more than I’d like to see Irish pubs in Timbuctoo, or Irish ‘communities’ anywhere for that matter.)

        Also, I said ‘my point’ above. Well, of course that is just one of my points. My real point is the psychology. The ‘refugee debate’ (ie immigration non-debate) shares some of the features common to contemporary mass delusions: rhetoric, emotionalism, intolerance, self-delusion (why, for example, do the boats keep sinking?) and (in particular) dishonesty and deceit (for ‘one in 10′ cf ‘One In Four’). I am fascinated by the fake news we keep seeing. How it never turns out to be what it claims to be on closer inspection. (I really got switched on to that when looking at Savilization.) The weekly I Media show on TV Libertés seems to have no shortage of material and that’s just looking at the main news items in France. Ireland has nothing like this. It must have one of the worst media in the world.

        • coldblow

          Yes, I had only read it the other day and forgotten already. West agrees that you would think the climate of opinion in Britain was right-wing from looking at the tabloid headlines. The problem of course is that this has not prevented the steady lurch of approved opinion to the left.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            In keeping with your comment (“what they are doing here in the first place. I doubt very much they are the most deserving as those wouldn’t have the money to get a plane ticket”): 2 years ago – 6 months ago maybe – France 24 would not have showned it (most German media would still not show it)

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNVIw4MsI2Q

            8,000. With their prices and purchasing power, that’s like someone – someone young – saving 80,000 in Ireland in a relatively short time.

            Who that might be? A drug dealer? Foxrock native after escaping with Daddy’s card? A Fianna Fail politician?

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Coldblow,

          Interesting comment,

          I followed the British press and TV a little bit (the former stemming from the fact that if you are in a morning shop queue and you see a person that you know “he is gonna argue for 3 minutes” with 5 people behid, you might as well browse the paper for free for 3 minutes), and up to 2008 was very different than 2015-16.

          Up to 2008, everything was hunky-dorey, and in Britain even more than in here. Britain was still booming from its debt-driven growth (as was Ireland), and few people realised hwo things will go for the next few years.

          But if you consider the rise of UKiP and all debates pre-Brexit, then clearly, surely and indubitably, immigration was THE topic in all British papers (such as Daily Mail, Telegraph, Sun, etc), albeit only from the EU (PC allows to write things about whites you cannot about the others, but we covered that before).
          In fact, immigration was in my opinion taking unproportionally big time in Brexit debates (compared to Britains debt, for example: like 20:1, maybe?).

          Furthermore, with all that talk about immigration, some aspects of it (people born in Britain not speaking proper English and obeying sharia law) were still a taboo.

          And I can see that the Brits are now getting frustrated post-Brexit (no, I am not saying the Remain camp was right): what, we voted NO and the magic did not happen overnight?

          What I want to say is that when you say about immigration as such, one has to clearly distinguish two levels: cultural and security.

          When before the wave of terrorists in Europe I was predicting that not adhering to Dublin Regulation and bullying Hungary will end up as it did, almost everyone here thought I was crazy (now even Chancellor Merkel says the same).

          I remember we had an argument as to you seemed to have been surprised why I go down the splitters about Frontex, Dublin Regulation, camps in Turkey, passport of lack thereof, and what migrants are who exactly.

          But you were approaching it from a cultural point of view, from a “how many is too many” point of view.

          I was – and am – approaching it from survival instinct point of view – culture is a sublimation of that basis, which, if threatened, vanishes into a Hobbsean vision of life short and brutish.

          From that point of view, it is AN ENORMOUS difference if you let in 1,000 Swedes, Poles, English, Hindu, Japaneese, or 10 north Africans, Pakistanis (and I know nice Pakistanis too, genuinely decent two people in the shop), or Somalians, with no background checks at all, who go and buy a weapon in the first week.

          After all, practically all terror attacks in Europe for the last 2 years were a result of police/secret service screwing up and Merkel’s “Willkommen” to all, with passports or – in 80% (!) – not.

          Remember what I wrote about what checks the Polish refugees had to go through in 1982?

          So we are not in disagreement on that – we are talking about different aspects.

          What’s the use of cultural identity being kept if you are dead? You can fight for cultural identity when you are not dead, but you cannot be resurrected if the cultural identity on your street is kept – but half of the street dies in a lorry attack…

          “My point, as you know, though is not their faith but what they are doing here in the first place. I doubt very much they are the most deserving as those wouldn’t have the money to get a plane ticket, or bribe an ‘evil’ people-smuggler, or wangle a dodgy visa.”

          A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y

          It just reminds of that family who bunked off from Slovenia (a country richer than Portugal) on Polish TV: “we do not like this country – this country is poor. It is not what we paid for” – said an angry man to a Polish TV reporter.

          • coldblow

            Grzeg

            Yes, different aspects of course. For introverts like me meaning is all-important, while extraverts (most internet posters I’d say) just accept a given situation and get on with it. They can do it because meaning (I think) doesn’t seem to, well, ‘mean’ so much. Security is important of course, but what is the point of your life being safe if there isn’t anything worth living for?

            It is insane how inherited tradition is thrown away without a thought. I remember back in Sept 2015, when the hysteria about the drowned child broke, that Brendan O’Connor was the only journalist who expressed a doubt, about the timing at least, (Harris at the same time criticised the selfish xenophobes here – I really don’t know if he was imagining them). Of course, he jumped back into line the following week, as expected. There his line was: ‘It’s all right, don’t worry or be afraid. We have our childhood memories of Tayto crisps etc’ I mean, if that is all it ‘meant’ to him then, yes, ditch it and try something else.

            About language and the Paraha (Dan Everett’s book is excellent) their world view was unique. Their language has (had?) no recursion, they had no sense of history or any ideas outside immediate experience, no creation myth or religion. A wet dream for John Lennon, not such great news for Chomski (no embedded recursion). Not my idea of a civilization (unlike many of the reviewrs of his book on Amazon) but unmistakeably a *different* view. Genuine diversity. (Our globalized diversity is of course quite the opposite and involves the dissolution of cultures around the world. One of the many bloody obvious faults. But the extravert mind (in Jung’s (translated word), I think, *accommodates* to it all.)

            But what I was thinking earlier was something Sheldrake was writing about. When a new form of crystal is ‘discovered’ in one part of the world it can be replicated around the globe (and the old crystal can no longer be made). Similarly, if a tit (no, not Michael D) learns to peck through milk bottle tops in Amsterdam others in Sydney or Vancouver can also do it. When a rat learns a new behaviour in a lab in London another takes it up in Berlin where it leaves off.; These mysterious fields have no regard for distance (apparently) so what happens here affects the other end of the universe. So if the Paraha (or Irish) language and culture disappear everywhere is the poorer for it. I haven’t thought it through but that’s the way my mind is drifting.

            There are many immigrants who would agree with me, but you won’t hear them over the sound of the emoting. They would be horrified if, to take Ed West’s example, Karachi were to find itself occupied by a majority of white English and Pakistan’s second city, Islamabad, almost at tipping point.

            You think that David is softening on this issue but I doubt it. There are very few on his side who can look at this objectively, prepared to change their minds. How do you compromise on this? How on abortion?

            Here’s a thought. To dilute the baleful Muslim influence we should encourage further immigration from other parts of the world, say South America. That’s a joke. A JOKE! (this might give them another fixed idea)

            I assume you have heard of Andrew Neather, a senior New Labour adviser and speech writer, who let the cat out of the bag about the Blair govt’s approach to immigration: to rub the Right’s nose in it. As well as the (alleged and highly questionable, to say the least) economic reasons they had also drawn up ‘social’ benefits from accelerated mass immigration. The idea was to make Britain a fully-fledged multi-cultural paradise before anyone could do anything to stop it, and then it would be too late to do anything. Of course these were kept secret from the electorate, and from traditional Labour support, which didn’t approve. Until Neather let it slip in a newspaper article. This is what they really think of democracy (what they now call populism).

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          “Ireland has nothing like this. It must have one of the worst media in the world.” – I cannot tell you if it has or if it has not: I stopped watching it some time ago, and only read the Irish papers if I find something interesting.
          My weekly uptake of the Irish news would be 20% statistics (my friend works for CSO), 30% business and farming, 10% of politics, 30% of this blog, and 10% court records.

          Maybe I miss TG4 a bit. It is so parachial that I used to be addicted to it. “Why are you laughing so loud?” – said my Achill Island housemates in 2006. “Sorry, I – buaha-ha – cannot – hee-hee-hee stop. The – theheehe- acting is so bad!”.
          They have good documentaries though so they do, only pity that some of them are done by communists.

          The best bit in Irish newspapers are chess columns in Indo and letters, except for Dr Kevin McCarthy from Kinsale (not to confuse with another Dr Kevin McCarthy from UCC – they specifically asked me due to the volume of complaints they used to receive about the “Kinsale” McCarthy, so I always say that).

          • coldblow

            Grzegorz

            I have never liked TG4. They seem to spend most of their money on a soap, which is just an Irish language version (most of it bad Irish) of the English soaps. They have children’s cartoons with squeaky voice dubs that are unintelligible for me. The commentaries on the Gaelic games aren’t as good as RnaG and it isn’t much help turning the sound down on the telly as there is a time lag. The news could be all right.

            The above is past tense really because I haven’t watched it in years. I remember its launch. I think Michael D was the Minister for the Gwaeltacht then, and it appealed to metropolitans looking for quirky programming rather than to the older people in the Gaeltacht. I was working in the section dealing with Irish grants around that time and they got rid of the old weekly newspaper Anois and brought in a more professional, much smoother one called Foinse (which has since been ditched). Anois was in my opinion much better despite the garish production. I look back on it with fondness. Foinse was more like an Irish language version of the English language press, so that tells you everything.

          • Clowns flogging a dead language.

            Stick it in a museum for people to admire by their own choice and at their own expense.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Why is immigration a taboo in the press?”

      I will explain this to the best of my ability because I have been trying to shift the narrative in this regard for a long time now. RTE prestitutes are controlled by fail eireann and are not allowed to do their jobs which is hold the people in fail eireann to account. But I digress.

      Mcwilliams stated some time back that the only solution he could see was both immigration and emigration. The reason is simple; People who stay here who are born here will want to establish families and doing so requires the state to provide the infrastructure from our taxes to facilitate this.

      The state’s political imperative however is to keep the money rolling in from Europe and to do this the bank’s must be kept open at all costs to save the euro (a dictat from the people controlling the money in Europe).

      Therefore the revenues needed by the gubuernment to spend on the banks must be striped from the cisitzen’s in wealth taxes since they know incomes are falling and preferably young single “workers” who can be fucked over in min wage zero hr contract jobs. This category of young people shouldn’t need hospitals etc either.

      From the government’s perspective the ideal “Irish” Population would mostly young gay single men employed in min wage zero hr contract jobs with all the native Irish population in exile in Australia, Canada or the UK since over there they would be no threat politically speaking to the establishment here in Eireuba.

      Twisted as fuck isn’t it?

  13. Mike Lucey

    The sooner mankind wakes up to the religion racket and sees it for what it is, a control device by the elite, the better off it will be.

    I think George Carlin had it figured!
    George Carlin — Religion is Bullshit – YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

    • SMOKEY

      The word GENUIS is way way overused and mostly for the clever who dont come close to it. Carlin however was as close to genuis as you could get. Love him, always did. A wordsmith like no other. And perfect comic timing too. One of the few great thinkers of our time.

    • Deco

      It is essential for the intellectual health of society that people like George Carlin are not in anyway limited or restricted from giving their opinions.

      No set of ideas, agenda, or perspective should be above criticism. And religion is included in that. There should be no laws prohibiting people from criticism of any ideology, or set of man made ideas.

      That way if anything is built on lies, plagiarism, or utter nonsense, that there will be a debate, and people will be free of it.

      • Mike Lucey

        @Deco

        “No set of ideas, agenda, or perspective should be above criticism. And religion is included in that. There should be no laws prohibiting people from criticism of any ideology, or set of man-made ideas.”

        Agreed, but you do so at your peril when it comes to criticism of “The Holy Prophet”.

        The PC bunch have down a lot of damage but again many Western folks are today are ‘calling time’ on PCness and voting for the likes of Trump and Brexit with more to come. I only hope that this pendulum swing doesn’t go too far and common sense prevails. That could be a tall order though.

        • Deco

          I think that ALL holy prophets should be given objective analysis and scepticism.

          Joseph Smith the Founder of the Mormons is the holy prophet if you ask a Mormon.

          L. Ron Hubbard, is a prophet to the Scientologists.

          If the scientologists advocated a law forbidding the criticism of L Ron Hubbard, would it be politically correct to agree with it ?

          It would in principle be politically incorrect to ridicule L.Ron Hubbard.

          It would also be societally beneficial.

          • Truthist

            And, for a certain cult their own ethnicity is their messiah ;
            They worship themselves.
            And, they are steering the world’s cultures, & laws, & geo-politics, & economies, & religions, & thinking towards that.
            Perhaps u may be an acolyte of this cult’s false narrative without being aware of it.

            REAL RELIGION IS RIGHTEOUS.
            RELIGION MEANS “LOOKING INWARD”.
            THEN U START TO WAKE URSELF U ;
            U BECOME MORE AWARE.

          • Truthist

            That particular cult is steadfastly steering the goyim to worship them ONLY.

    • coldblow

      ‘Should science be a vehicle of prejudice, a kind of fundamentalist belief system?’

      http://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/richard-dawkins-comes-to-call

  14. Operation Transformation

    ‘ Fit In’ – I thought those words are meant to get into your trousers even the expandable ones too .

    On a serious note there is no comparison with the Catholics to USA and to-days migration of the Ottomans .

    When the Catholics arrived in USA they did not bring with them the Vatican Canon Laws to impose on another judicial system . The Ottomans bring with them the Sharia Law and insist to impose it on the Irish / USA / UK / EU Judicial Systems. Unfortunately Common Law and Sharia Law do conflict as they are currently are written . It was not long ago when Egypt was 97% Coptic Christian and 3% Muslim . Today it is 97% Muslim and 3% Coptic Christian.

    This is the end product of this social change that is ongoing . In an interview with Gay Byrne the Head Cleric accepted that the council of Muslim faiths in Ireland do not regulate the order of discipline expected of them in their community and still expect Irish Authorities to answer to them what their rights should be.

  15. hasbeen

    I have not read every comment and this may have been touched on already. We know all about integration already in this country, we have lots of experience of it not happening. There is a community on this island who have been here for almost 4 centuries and who are still “British”. There is a good chance muslims will be the same. Most have shown no desire to assimilate and that is their entitlement.
    Why they want to turn their new countries into the shithole they left behind is anyone’s guess.
    Their core belief’s are incompatible with western values.
    It will be interesting to see what happens in Holland when it shortly becomes a muslim majority nation -predicted to happen in about 30 years.
    In any event the problem is not the current migrants, based on the evidence from France and Belgium it’s their children we have to worry about.

  16. dwalsh

    The people we call ‘refugees’ these days are people who have been forced to flee their homes and villages and cities and countries in the Middle East and Northern Africa due to a series of terrorist wars of regime change imposed on their countries and supported and funded by the Washington Regime and NATO and the EU.
    Trump and the reactionary European right place all the focus on the refugees themselves as the culprits. They argue that the victims of these Western imposed wars are to blame for their condition and status; and they describe them as criminals and sex fiends and terrorists.
    But the real terrorists are the neoconservative and neoliberal ideologues in the think tanks in Washington and London etc who have plotted these wars of regime change under the guise of ‘foreign policy’ and ‘national interests’; and the successive Western governments and administrations which have gone along with and implemented their wars over the past decades.
    The US has been constantly at war since the end of WW2. The US has bombed and invaded countries all around the world and and murdered millions of people in the process. The Washington regime has imposed sanctions and terrorism and wars and chaos on countless countries around the world since WW2.
    The Pentagon has something like 700 military bases and installations around the planet and yet they demonise countries like Russia as plotting to invade and take over the world. The historical facts show that it is the Washington regime and its NATO vassals which want to ‘take over the world’, or rather, they want to dominate the world; and they are willing to use any means necessary to impose their will on any nations that get in their way.
    The western corporate media cartel, which is not a free press, is owned and controlled by a handful of transnational mega corps which use their media to manage and control the perceptions of Western populations so they will, if not support, at least not object to their international war crimes.
    As well as helping the refugees fleeing the many Western support wars in their countries, we also need to tell our leaders to stop using sanctions and terrorism and wars to implement their neoliberal foreign policy of intervention and regime change.

    • coldblow

      Blimey, I thought you had reconsidered the liberal stance towards Trump. That didn’t last long. Michael Hudson would agree with you about the US bases around the world (and how it forces the ROW to pay for them). I’d agree about the demonization of Russia. My reading of the west’s population’s perceptions is that they support idealistic wars which they (and that includes myself) do not understand. Hence the warm reception for Benn’s ‘masterful’ speech in support of air strikes in Syria.

      I don’t think the cartels you refer to dictate the press’s line. Journalists like David write what they do because they (mistakenly) believe it. That is the big problem. All the ‘respectable’ media in the West that I have come across share these views. That the proprietors and the famed ‘one per cent’ also share these views is no more than a secondary consideration.

      They believe it simply because they believe it, in the face of the bulk of the evidence. You cannot explain irrational behaviour using rational arguments. They just believe it, will cherry pick their evidence and lie when necessary (because they believe their goal is noble).

      • dwalsh

        Hi Coldblow :)
        I do find myself very out of sync with the so-called liberals of today. But that does not mean I support everything Trump says or does; I dont. On the Mexican migrants and refugee issues is is wrong.
        For me the traditional political spectrum has completely collapsed. It is obsolete. The term ‘liberal’ does not mean what it once did; and the true left is completely absent and almost extinct.
        These political designations and the notion of a political spectrum has to be rethought if it is to have any meaning going forward.
        Liberals today support war crimes such as ‘Humanitarian’ terrorism and bombing and invasions etc. I do not stand with that disgraceful lot of dupes. They are not liberals in the classical sense; they are neoliberals which is just the polite face of neoconservative imperialism.

      • dwalsh

        Another thing Coldblow – journalists who succeed in today’s liberal media are screened and censored. Mostly they do it themselves. They know what they can and cannot say; and also what they must say on specific issues, if they are to retain their positions. As you say many of them are taken in by the neoliberal doublethink and really do believe it.
        Those who are not duped or inclined to go along with the doublethink and the war crimes etc do not succeed. They lose their positions. If you doubt what I say ask Chris Hedges about it.

        • coldblow

          dwalsh

          Yes, there is an element of pressure but it is secondary.

          I am interested by O’Hanlon’s article, in particular her ‘more than one in 10′ statement. As I noted above the OECD figure for immigrants is 17.2% (one in six – not counting the illegals, the Brazilian ‘students’ and the rest) and I have no reason to think they’d be exaggerating.

          From the tenor of her article as a whole it seems clear that she supports mass immigration as otherwise they could have asked another journalist to write it. Yet she does not strike me as someone who would get carried away with her own rhetoric (as Eoghan Harris notoriously does, for all his good points (eg he will stand up for individuals persecuted by the press pack, just like Myers)). So did the editor brush it up a little, knock off one or two unnecessary rough edges? I very much doubt it.

          Whatever the truth about that, the article itself is seriously misleading as it grossly understates the scale of the problem (or blessing, if one is that way inclined). People don’t generally look up statistics, or read court judgments, or follow up on the aftermath of scare stories, which are usually buried on page 13 (or is it page 14? Hitchens once said which side of the page is the favoured one for this purpose). In fact, it is clear that the journalists themselves don’t read the long official reports, be they about Europe, child abuse scares or the IPCC. They probably barely skim the summaries.

          I’m still waiting to find out what the diggers found in Tuam. My bet is nothing as otherwise we’d hear nothing else.

          But just to repeat the point, the media are breath-takingly dishonest and deceitful on this issue. It is unforgiveable. A number of posters on this thread have strongly (emotionally) challenged others who have criticized our immigration policies. But none of them has addressed this particular issue. Why? Just think about it for a moment. And notice that this happens over and over again, not just here but everywhere. And then try to think of an explanation for such evasive behaviour. My explanation is that they are living a fantasy and find it very painful when the fantasy is challenged.

          In a moment of madness yesterday I was going to suggest a radio debate with David on the subject. If only because I am unaware that such a thing has ever happened in Ireland. I saw sense in the end thank God as I have never won an argument in my life. But can you imagine arguing with, say, Eoghan Harris on air? He would pluck facts and figures out of the air and fling them at you (you’d check them the next day to find out they were probably false or exaggerated or imaginary, but that’s not much help on the spot) but the main thrust would be (to use David’s word from the article) indignation and emotion. How could you? This is a child! No true Republican… I’ve seen racists, real racists, and I know how they act… Sneaking regarders… The perceived moral imperative would be so strong that you would not get a fair hearing, or anything like it.

          On the editorial pressure issue, I’d make a comparison with Wikipedia. There are organized scientific materialist zealots like the Guerrilla Skeptics (see Rupert Sheldrake’s website about them) who police any whiff of ‘pseudoscience’ but Wiki seems to self-censor itself anyway so that it rarely wavers from conventional wisdom and received opinion, at least in controversial areas. That is not to say that vicious editorial battles are not fought over them sometimes.

          I think with journalists you would be weeded out, or seldom reach a position of influence, if you didn’t hold the right views in general. In other words journalists are self-censoring. O’Hanlon seems pretty independent to me, but she takes the basic moral line on racism, no matter how widely that term is now interpreted (it seems to include defending national borders now). It is a line that no decent person can cross.

          This is the problem and why her article in particular depressed me, coming from her.

          Old-style liberalism. Perhaps Hitchens’s views here http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2017/02/why-theresa-may-has-worse-problems-than-jeremy-corbyn.html
          and elsewhere about Corbyn might interest you.

          • dwalsh

            Coldblow
            You say you disagree with me about media control and yet your points repeatedly imply its reality . There seems to be some doublethink going on there?

            On the immigration issue, I can see it concerns you a lot. In my initial comment I was referring specifically to the people who are fleeing Western promoted and funded terrorism and wars in the Middle East and Africa. I was not referring to the general issue of Immigration.
            On immigration policy I would say this: there is an elite neoliberal or globalist agenda to promote immigration as part of their strategy to diminish national identity and sovereignty. We are exiting the era of the nation state – if they get their way. They want to create a transnational level of planetary governance to supercede national and international governance. This is a long term plan which they are working towards on multiple fronts.

          • coldblow

            dwalsh

            Yes, I take your point. I felt the same as I was writing it. When you look at it simply media control cannot be denied. In the same way a civil servant would never write a speech criticizing his own minister.

            When it comes to journalists writing for the Murdoch Press (if that is what they are called) or Independent Newspapers (ditto) it is easy to imagine how they would pussyfoot around certain issues. Then with papers like the Guardian this would be even more the case. (This link (part 1 of a two-part article) http://www.richardwebster.net/jersey1.htis particularly interesting in the case of the Guardiain. Webster says at one point that he believes modern life is carried out in a form of mass fantasy. While I first read this article some years ago I arrived at the same conclusion by my own route, largely by way of Booker’s The Neophiliacs and my own observations.)

            However the point I am making (or trying to make) is still valid, I think. Journalists have a lot of leeway in what they write from what I have picked up. The thing is that on social issues in particular they do not need to be coerced into following a particular line because they usually agree anyway.

            So while it is possible to divide the world into the wealthy and influential few on the one hand and the rest of mankind, I don’t think this is the most important division. Rather I see the world divided between those who support the progressive agenda and those who do not. Newspaper owners and journalists seem to fall into the former camp. Certainly the journalists and I would need to be persuaded that the proprietors do not.

            On immigration I was not responding to your own point about refugees from Western-promoted wars, which is largely valid at least in relation to the wars themselves (although others such as Saudi A., Turkey and Iran are also deeply involved). The link between these wars and refugees coming to Europe is much weaker however. They are motivated overwhelmingly by economic considerations and the refugee cover helps them to get admittance. Any would-immigrant would be mad nowadays not to use it.

            I agree that I think it is a very important. I was using it as an example though because I thought the Sindo article supports the point I was making, which is that journalists generally express their own opinions.

            I notice in passing that in America corporations (including I think Philip Morris) have spent enormous sums lobbying for lowering immigration barriers.

            As for the nation state I agree it is under sustained attack. I support it as the best mainstay of liberty and civilization. I know next to nothing of plans for a one-world government. The origins of the EU were inspired by passionate converts to the cause of internationalism. The IPCC has done great damage (and is shining example of corruption) while the rest of the UN has also done more than its share. The European Court of Justice and other bodies are probably the same.

          • dwalsh

            I wont argue the point but we do view the refugees from the Western promoted wars differently.
            I see tham as victims driven from their homes and nations by ‘humanitarian bombs’ and ‘moderate terrorists’ funded by the Washington regime and its vassals in Europe and the Middle East.
            I do not see them as economic migrants or as opportunists; except that they are looking for the opportunity to to stay alive and have a life as best they can. I have no doubt they would rather stay at home.

        • I agree with you dwalsh.

          If the West doesn’t want people from the East washing up on its shores then stop bombing the hell out of their homelands.

          Also stay out of their business the same way they should stay out of ours.

          Simple.

    • Dwalsh
      Good one, 100% on the mark.

  17. tony_murphy

    What a shockingly naive article.

  18. coldblow

    About Muslims retaining their own separate identity, this also happens with Indians in Britain as arranged marriages strengthen the link with the mother country and provide a steady stream of new immigrants who need to be assimilated from scratch.

  19. This demonstrates the level of integration in Luton in a very short time.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fA6XcyXsxXU

  20. Pie Squared

    Interesting facts re Muslim integration David.

    Isn’t it all about identity? And isn’t the end game a dark, asian human population – speaking mandarin and practising buddhism? Should we even resist it? Is there anything worth preserving in our small nation states in Europe, including Ireland?

    I count a few Muslims as friends and my life is richer for knowing them. Some of my favourite authors are Muslim. I do not condone hate speech against any particular grouping for obvious reasons. If a majority of Muslims battle to integrate into Western societies then perhaps they should understand the rules of the game before moving and rather stay where they are or move to non Western countries. Should they decide to move to the West, then I agree when in Rome…but as usual there’s a bigger picture and complexity.

    Like the internet, population and immigration are global phenomena and like the internet they are by and large unregulated.
    After a headlong rush towards “the highs” of globalisation, the world’s doing cold turkey as “the lows” hit home.

    Population and immigration are tethered.
    Immigration, sovereignty and good governance of sovereign states are also inextricably linked.

    Nations fall on the knives of politics, economics, finance, ethnicity and religion. And things go septic over time not overnight.

    None of this is new.
    But our global world is shaped by our weakest link.
    And that weakest link is not conveniently “over there” anymore.
    It’s mobile and among us.

    As pointed out by others, many Muslims now in the West, were very unhappy in their collapsed sovereign states of origin, so they fled.

    Problem is, the West must seem a moral mess, to the devout or extremist Muslim bound by fairly Medieval rules. When in Rome…think of said Muslim integrating…watching Episode 1 of Black Mirror on netflix where a British PM f****s a pig on national TV, to save a princess? Tell me, who are the depraved? Who are the lost?

    With every year, more and more people are born into untenable situations in untenable sovereign states.

    Instead of batoning down the hatches, maybe new and wiser global organisations need to innovate and redouble their efforts?
    An early warning system re endangered states could be introduced, from extant sources, a kind of dashboard. One indicator on the dash might be the potential impact of state failure on their population? (Ireland might even make the list?)
    Maybe every ounce of diplomacy and forensic journalism should be deployed until that state rises or falls?
    If diplomacy and media fail, then maybe penalties should be imposed on the responsible state, maybe even a penalty for the number of displaced citizens i.e. those who would have remained had the government not run the country aground. (Ireland will definitely make the amber list!)

    Don’t we need to evolve to a higher level of globalised organisation and responsibility, and not the in vogue lower level ala Trump, Brexit et al? Or are we living in a pg (post global) world licking our wounds?

    Don’t states need to be more responsible for their people?
    If states are not, the flood of refugees and immigrants from all quarters of the globe will grow annually.
    Western economic growth can absorb some but not all of these millions of people. And the EU is crying out for an intelligent, thoughtful approach to immigration. There are systems to emulate – e.g. Australian or Canadian systems. But, the EU moves at the pace of a sloth. Further the capacity of each country in the West to absorb immigrants is individual. So the approach to receiving immigrants is a matter for nation states too.

    Couldn’t Ireland do with a look in the mirror, or maybe a touch of ye olde crystal ball, to id who we are and who we intend to become? Inclusive and diverse sure – to what extent – given that today, unlike practically every country on earth, our population on the island is still less than in 1840 (hammer, hammer, hammer). Yes, we watched millions of brothers die and sent boat loads to America, but what have we ever done to make up for that loss…here…on this wet rock?

    Before taking in the immigrants of the world, including the Muslims, do we have any ancestors to appease? Do we owe our own, in the far flung corners of this lovely planet, anything? Can we galvanise ourselves to grow this country, its great and ancient and evolving culture, through innovative and brave acts and through the Irish we have displaced? Pipe Dream? Smokin’ somethin’? Just sayin’…

  21. The EU calls for more integration between states.

    I guess it will make it easier for migrants to be assimilated as there would be a uni-cultural European entity instead of warring factions.

    Posted on lemetropolecafe
    EU lawmakers call for ‘Federal Union’ of European states: In an open letter published in La Stampa on Sunday, the leaders of the lower chambers of parliament of Germany, Italy, France, and Luxembourg have called for a European “Federal Union.” They said that closer cooperation is essential for dealing with problems that no one EU state can tackle on its own, such as immigration, terrorism, and climate change. They also warned that the European integration project is currently more at risk than ever before, with high unemployment and immigration problems driving populist and nationalist movements.
    * * * * *

    • Truthist

      An immediate implication that have occurred to me :

      unconditional freedom of movement of “refugees” & “asylum seekers” within the “federal” EU states upon refugee & asylum seeker being in any particular state of EU.

      Anyway, their way of using the terms “populist” & “nationalist” is :

      meant to disparage those particular terms

      patronize / belittle the citizens who are attached to the nationist / patriot causes.

      • Schengen: Controversial EU free movement deal explained

        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13194723

        • Truthist

          Forget Schengen ;

          The big objective with the non-European invasion of immigrants to Europe is to swamp each European country such that the indigenous people of each particular country is then numerically the minority versus the non-European ethnicities.

          Schengen is always dispensable in the hands of “The Dreadful Few” who really rule each & all of Europe’s countries & most of the world’s other countries [ USA, Canada, occupied Japan, etc. ]

          • Schengen is the agreement that allows free movement between member states. Get into one and you are automatically into all.

            Dismissing Schengen with such disdain shows a lack of its significance

          • Truthist

            We are really talking about Muslim refugees & Muslim asylum seekers & other Muslim arrivals in the context of :
            Irish State
            & also
            UK.
            Both Irish State & UK are not in Schengen.

            I am saying that whilst Irish State & / or UK remain in EU, that certainly “The Dreadful Few” will manipulate events such that either or both of these jurisdictions signs into Schengen or its like.
            That is the pattern all along ;
            “The Dreadful Few” — of which the EU is 1 of their joined-together bits of jigsaw for to be joined with their other joined-together bits of jigsaws eventually — always get their own way.

            By the way, ur post have been very good in the last 3 discussions [ including this one ].
            Especially about Real Bills Doctrine.

  22. Truthist

    Some Links

    Highlight the URL > Right-Click > Select “Go to” that URL

    …………………….

    DESCRIPTION
    Satirical Cartoon on unlevel playing pitch for Mexican Immigrants to USA versus USA Immigrants to Mexico

    pbs.twimg.com/media/C5j3ECZUsAAmFpR.jpg

    ……………………..

    HEADING
    EU punch misses mark in fight with Poland

    https://thesafiablog.com/2017/02/16/eu-punch-misses-mark-in-fight-with-poland/

    ……………………….
    APROPOS OF ;
    Baby Trudeau just-in Papa Trueau’s auld office

    PHOTO WITH BLURB
    Pierre [ Baby Trudeau ] gives “Refugees” $ 43,000 each for 1st year in Canada while Canadians suffer

    pbs.twimg.com/media/C5hLsE8UwAAwsej.jpg

    ……………………………

    HEADING
    Palestinian children get longer sentences for throwing stones than Israeli soldier got for killing a Palestinian

    February 25, 2017

    EXCERPT
    A woman holds up a sign with ‘Too many terrorists in prison’ written on one side and ‘Kill them all’ written on the other during a rally in Tel Aviv on April 19, 2016 to support Elor Azaria.

    Azaria case

    UN ‘disturbed’ by light sentence for Israeli soldier
    AFP 24 Feb — An 18-month prison sentence for an Israeli soldier who shot dead a wounded Palestinian assailant is an “unacceptable” punishment for “an apparent extra-judicial killing”, the UN said Friday. United Nations human rights office spokeswoman Ravina Shamdasani further charged the Jewish state with having “a chronic culture of impunity” regarding cases involving Israeli troops and Palestinians … “While the prosecution and conviction are very welcome steps towards accountability, the punishment… is difficult to reconcile with the intentional killing of an unarmed and prone individual,” she added. According to the rights office, more than 200 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank since September 2015 and Azaria has been the only one to face trial. Israeli Prime Minister Benjami n Netanyahu on Thursday backed pardoning Azaria.

    mondoweiss.net/2017/02/palestinian-children-sentences/#sthash.RvoAGztW.dpuf

    ………………………

    HEADING
    Brexit ‘divorce settlement’ cheap compared to ‘cost of EU fraud’

    26 Feb, 2017 16:03

    EXCERPT
    Since 1997, the UK has lost £160 billion pounds in one type of EU VAT fraud… that was taken bit by bit, not in a lump sum. And it has been directly stolen from the taxpayers in the UK, says Graham Moore, political commentator.
    Germany, Italy and a number of other EU countries are backing the European Commission’s calls for London to pay billions in a ‘divorce bill.’

    The sum at stake is over €60 billion ($75 billion), and the EU Commission wants it all to be paid before the bloc starts negotiating future trade deals with London.

    The final payment’s reportedly due in 2023.

    RT: Does this $63 billion Brexit bill, proposed by Brussels, mean that friendship between the UK and EU is impossible after all?

    Graham Moore: Well, to be honest there are other things that we need to look at. For example, the Vienna Convention on Treaties, section two. There are several articles under that convention that invalidate treaties. They need to be very careful what they are implying and the threats that they are making.

    The second thing I would like to say, and this is crucial to the people in the UK and especially in England to understand, that since 1997 the UK has lost £160 billion pounds in one type of EU VAT fraud… that was taken bit by bit, not in a lump sum. And it has been directly stolen from the taxpayers in the UK. Now £160 billion, if you are look at it towards the final exit €60 billion, or whatever it is, I’d still say to be fair that is cheap, because that is just one type of fraud where we have paid dearly over the years.

    rt.com/op-edge/378670-brexit-uk-eu-bill-fraud/

    ………………………

    HEADING
    Connecticut governor to cops ;

    “Don’t follow Trump immigration orders.”

    thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/320715-connecticut-governor-to-cops-dont-follow-trump-immigration-orders

    …………….

  23. Truthist

    James Perloff? @jamesperloff

    CAPTION
    All those people protesting Trump now ‘
    If they really loved Hillary that much, why were her rallies so unattended ?

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5tQCooVAAE8u-O.jpg

  24. Truthist

    Interviewer is a “nodding in agreement / support” interviewr.

    HEADING
    Geert Wilders talks with Ezra Levant

    Feb 27, 2017

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06IN2MbdF_I

  25. Truthist

    HEADING
    Half of Turkey’s Border Wall with Syria Finished

    FEBRUARY 27, 2017

    http://newobserveronline.com/half-turkeys-border-wall-syria-finished/

  26. Truthist

    DAMN INTERESTING

    HEADING
    OSCARS 2017 ILLUMINATI EXPOSED !
    WARREN BEATTY ENVELOPE FREEMASON HUMILIATION RITUAL ! (#ENVELOPEGATE)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgELCbq61yQ

  27. Deco

    WHO is financing the Digiphone commercial empire ?

    It remains a mystery to me.

    And for some strange reason, this article is making me ponder this question.

  28. Truthist

    Mr. Digiphone surely has been an attendee at Bilderburg ;

    Real function of Bilderburg Meetings is to carve up the turf / jurisdictions ;
    Agree as to who gets what piece of turf for to sell their wares.

    e.g.
    Opel had some Irish turf when they were excluded — with their agreement — other turfs.

    Mr. Digiphone has permission to operate in Sham[rock] Republic & certain Banana Republics.

    Yeah, his operations are very big & thenceforth ambitious from the get-go ;
    So, WHO is financing Mr. Digiphone’s numerous enterprises ?

  29. mike flannelly

    Peter Mathews RIP

    Some people did shout stop.

    The plan for the Irish Central Bank was always to restructure domestic and sme debt with the help of the ECB ( ESM fund).

    They however got no help from the ECB because they were too weak.

    https://youtu.be/wMLQYD5q1XQ

    • Truthist

      The most impressive Irish politician since Tony Gregory RIP.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      I cannot believe Peter Matthews died. I was busy and wasn’t even looking at newspapers headlines. 65 is young nowadays. I really liked him. I will remember Mr Matthews as a man who often, surrounded by shouting clowns on the radio, was an oasis of calm, logical thinking and gentleness with his quite, warm voice.

      In post-Celtic Tiger Ireland, these features are considered controversial (you do not exist if your volume does not go up to 11) – manners maketh man. Among Irish celebrities, Mr Matthews was one of the very few who could go through an entire radio programme without putting on a squeaky voice and without laughing at his own jokes with a laugther resembling a halting DART (Messrs Pat Kenny and McWilliams would be another examples).

      I remember that in 2013 Peter Mathews said that it was his party that had strayed from their position on abortion, not him. In a country where the political system was based on brown envelopes or kowtowing to the lowest denominator, not ideology, this was exotic.

      What is the difference between a politician and a stateman? A politician follows his electorate. A statesman shows direction. They say that Gen. Charles de Gaulle and Lady Thatcher were the last statesmen in Europe.

      But maybe it was Peter Matthews?

      • Very sad, he was a lovely bloke and did great work. Will be very much missed. I would imagine Vincent Browne is genuinely devastated.

        • mike flannelly

          As Grzeg said, Peter offered calm logic.

          Failed Irish bankers crushed Irish households and sme’s by stonewalling the restructuring of high ratio debt.
          Thats why Matthew Elderfield left in 2013.
          Irish bankers were allowed stonewall the restructure of high income ratio debt for the purpose of passing stress tests.
          Failed bankers SPIN tell us that vultures were the saviours of Ireland because they bought risky property debt.

          This is of course a load of
          bollix.

          Irish capital in Irish banks was not offered the same insider zero risk 70% discounts plus tax breaks.

          When Peter talked about the debt issue he clearly said that it was not personal. It never was about witch hunting the Irish banking failures that overvalued debt by up to 1200%.

          Peter was only interested solutions. There were and ARE solutions to high ratio debt. He always stressed this.

          The basic facts are that greedy insiders stonewalled simple solutions for households and sme’s.

          Fake Irish Law has enabled this.

          We have in my opinion fake contract law enforcement and fake consumer law enforcement. Contracts are bias in favour of the stronger party to the contracts and do not meet the needs or objectives of consumers.

          RTE never talk about the 200bn (7bn and rising per yr repayments)

          50bn(1.75 bn per yr repayments) for failed Irish bankers.

          150 bn (5.25bn per yr repayments) for insider arranged pensions plus immigration costs.

          Not discussing core metrics about public sector, hospitals and failed Irish bankers is of course fake news.

          Imagine if Trump used RTE on March 17th as an example of fake news. There are loads of examples of core metric omissions.

          No news(used to be good news) is better than fake news.

          Peter Mathews was a patriot and his honesty plus integrity will be sorely missed.

  30. Truthist

    THIS INFO. SHOULD BE VERY EDIFYING FOR THE ENGINEERS, & INDUSTRIALISTS, WHO READ & / OR CONTRIBUTE, TO THIS BLOG

    HEADING
    Rothschild Cartel behind the rise of Hitler also funding communism socialism and world war

    Published on Apr 4, 2013

    SUB-HEADING
    Interview with Doctor Anthony C Sutton on his research about the funding of Nazi party and of Soviet communists by a group of American and European financiers and industrialists.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_C

    BLURB
    Anthony Sutton, a research fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution from 1968 to 1973. During his time at the Hoover Institute he wrote the major study Western Technology and Soviet Economic Development (in three volumes), arguing that the West played a major role in developing the Soviet Union from its very beginnings up until the present time (1970). Sutton argued that the Soviet Union’s technological and manufacturing base—which was then engaged in supplying the Viet Cong — was built by United States corporations and largely funded by US taxpayers. Steel and iron plants, the GAZ automobile factory – a Ford subsidiary, located in eastern Russia – and many other Soviet industrial enterprises were, according to Sutton, built with the help or technical assistance of the United States or U.S. corporations. He argued further that the Soviet Union’s acquisition of MIRV technology was made possible by receiving (from U.S. sources) machining equipment for the manufacture of precision ball bearings, necessary to mass-produce MIRV-enabled missiles.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DilIn9ffRFA

  31. Truthist

    MEANWHILE “BACK AT THE RANCH”

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE REALISE THAT THIS ILLEGAL HARD DRUGS PROBLEM IS A RESULT OF :
    “THE DREADFUL FEW” SEEKING TO DESTROY THE IRISH NATION
    GREEDY PERSONS OUTSIDE OF IRELAND : BOTH NATIVE & FOREIGN
    GREEDY PERSONS IN IRELAND : BOTH NATIVE & FOREIGN TOO
    GREEDY + MALICE-MOTIVATED PERSONS IN IRELAND ; NATIVE
    GREEDY + EGO-MOTIVATED CIVIL SERVANTS & PROFESSIONAL CLASS PERSONS & BUSINESS PERSONS IN IRELAND ; BOTH NATIVE & FOREIGN

    Here is feature on the Belfast scene

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52wkLQjXtMg

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      http://www.thejournal.ie/six-year-old-allegedly-syringe-dublin-bus-1885960-Jan2015/

      A few years ago, when me and my girlfriend traveled cats exhibition in Blanch on Sunday, we witnessed a young mother with a pram on the bus buying heroin from a drug dealer.
      Everyone seemed fine about it, including the bus driver, who waited a bit at drug dealer’s request.
      What’s the point of having CCTV if this goes on?

      • Truthist

        Main motivations for CCTV :

        Deterrant against :
        crime
        standing up for ur rights [ with perhaps choice quotes from Grzegorz about Dublin Bus ]
        compensation for :
        accidents
        fake accidenents
        attacks

        fulfill insurance obligations

        AND, HERE FOLLOWS EXCERPT FROM LAST BLOG LEST U MISSED IT

        • Truthist

          @ Grzegorz

          shafoid
          February 24, 2017 at 4:33 pm
          Whatever happened to David’s Sunday Business Post articles? I have noticed that there is only one article per week here for the last few weeks, the one he writes for the Irish Independent. Perhaps that is why his blog has come to be dominated by a small number of guest posters. I would prefer to read more of David McWilliams and less of his guests.
          ……………
          Tony Brogan
          February 24, 2017 at 6:53 pm
          Ask him
          …………..
          Tony Brogan
          February 24, 2017 at 7:18 pm
          Go and read the papers!!!
          ………
          shafoid
          February 25, 2017 at 5:24 pm
          I agree. Why should anybody waste time on here when they can read informed material like this:

          rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/0225/855110-britain-and-europe/
          …………..
          Tony Brogan
          February 26, 2017 at 1:02 am
          And so they can, but I point out that I am reading it here!!
          ………………
          Truthist
          February 26, 2017 at 2:03 am
          We have had a variety of poster here ;
          Some with moral courage to answer questions germanely concretely & fully & truthfully.
          Perhaps u miss Pat Flannery ?
          No word from Pat Flannery after I asking him directly if he was or is a Freemason.
          And, this after Pat Flannery expressing wish for the free-speech advocate David McWilliams to ban both myself & Grzegorz.
          …………..
          Truthist

          February 26, 2017 at 2:30 am

          @ Grzegorz in particular

          ATTENTION … ATTENTION … ATTENTION

          Ref.
          shafoid

          February 24, 2017 at 4:33 pm
          Whatever happened to David’s Sunday Business Post articles ?
          I have noticed that there is only one article per week here for the last few weeks, the one he writes for the Irish Independent.
          Perhaps that is why his blog has come to be dominated by a small number of guest posters.
          I would prefer to read more of David McWilliams and less of his guests.
          REPLY
          Tony Brogan
          February 24, 2017 at 6:53 pm
          Ask him
          REPLY
          Tony Brogan
          February 24, 2017 at 7:18 pm
          Go and read the papers!!!
          REPLY
          shafoid
          February 25, 2017 at 5:24 pm
          I agree.
          Why should anybody waste time on here when they can read informed material like this:
          rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2017/0225/855110-britain-and-europe/

          REPLY
          Google.com results for search term ;
          Shafoid

          google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&btnG=Search&q=shafoid

          And, what would u know, but if it isn’t our good aul friend …
          Pat Flannery

          youtube.com/user/Shafoid

          8-) 8-) 8-)

  32. Truthist

    IRISH STATE DEFINITELY WELCOMES “REFUGEES” & “ASYLUM SEEKERS” ON BASIS OF BEING MALE HOMOSEXUAL.
    And, there would be substantial core of those strategically coming here for to :
    sample indigenous Irish “regardless”
    use Irish State’s Department of Health & Department of Social Welfare expenditure for treatment of HIV, AIDS, & what have u.

    NO DOUBT THE Minister for Social Welfare & his Civil SERPENTS would refute the veracity of the above Facts.

    HEADING
    CDC: Gay Men 2% of Population But 67% of All New HIV Cases
    February 4, 2016
    SUB-HEADING
    U.S. flag and homosexual rainbow flag in front of the U.S. Supreme Court. (AP)

    EXCERPT
    Although homosexuals, or men who have sex with men (MSM), make up about 2% of the U.S. population, they account for 67% of “all new HIV diagnoses,” according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
    In addition, there are about 1.2 million people in the United States with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, and an estimated 647,700 (54%) of those people are homosexuals, or MSM.
    The 67% of all new HIV cases is for 2013 and the 54% living with HIV is for 2011, the latest years, according to the CDC, for that particular data.
    Among some of the other facts about HIV/AIDS, reported by the CDC, are:
    – About 50,000 people become newly infected each year in the United States.
    – “More than 14,000 people with AIDS in the United States die each year.”
    – “More than 650,000 people with AIDS in the United States have died” since the epidemic started in the early 1980s.
    – “Men who have sex with men (MSM) remain the group most heavily affected by HIV in the United States.”
    – “White MSM continue to represent the largest number of new HIV infections among MSM (11,200), followed closely by black MSM (10,600)and Hispanic MSM (6,700).”
    – “The number of new infections among the youngest MSM (aged 13-24) increased 22 percent, from 7,200 infections in 2008 to 8,800 in 2010.”

    The World Health Organization
    recommends that MSM take anti-retroviral drugs to prevent spreading HIV even if they do not have HIV. (AP)
    – “There was a 12 percent increase in HIV incidence among MSM overall, from 26,700 in 2008 to 29,800 in 2010.”
    – “Transgender individuals are also heavily affected by HIV. A 2008 review of HIV studies among transgender women found that, on average, 28 percent tested positive for HIV.”

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/cdc-gay-men-2-population-67-all-new-hiv-cases

  33. RIP Peter Mathews. He was a nice guy, met him a couple of times at Kilkenomics. Didn’t even know he was sick – gone too soon. I always enjoyed him and Vincent Browne tearing into each other quite frequently on Vincent’s show – Vincent seemed very find of him.

  34. mike flannelly

    This year the debt for a group of companies that owned 331 acres in Naas was written down from 516 million to 42.8 million.

    1/2 bn.

    Failed bankers overvalued debt by 1200%

    Not 40%. 1200%

    Since the Irish bankers collapse of 2008 to 2017

  35. Truthist

    How about gifting 1 million bucks to house as many Muslim refugees, & Muslim asylum-seekers, as possible in Irish State ?

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/economist-david-mcwilliams-sees-profits-top-1m-35491220.html

    8-)

  36. McCawber

    Mass immigration is a form of invasion.
    Invasions never end well.
    We have NI as a shining example.
    More recently we had NICE.
    In its wisdom our government invited the rest of Europe to invade us in 2003.
    Bertie preened smugly to the rest of the world as he showed and told them all how it should be done.
    Result massive property boom ultimately resulting in massive property crash and unfortunately the rest is not history because the resultant nightmare continues.
    Ireland has plenty of history on immigration
    Inviting undesirables that ultimately do for us.
    How about Art McMurrough Kavanagh and a certain Strongbow for example.

  37. Truthist

    Maverick that I am, I posit that it is best that immigrants do no assimilate / adopt what passes for Irish culture today :

    back-stabbing ; metaphorical

    jealousy

    drink-gluttony

    illicit drug taking

    deliberate pig ignorance

    intellectual snobbery

    posh snobbery

    inverted snobbery

    duplicity

    gossiping

    moral-cowardice

    acquiescence to EU, USA, UK, Israel, NATO, George Soros, Chuck Feeney, Freemasons, Corporate Ireland, Civil SERPENTS, Professional Class, Landlordism, Rothshilds, Garda-Landlords / Landlord-Gardai, Homosexualisation Lobby, Misandry Lobby, Murdering of Pre-born Children, & Born Children Lobby, inter alia

    avarice

    blasphemous talking style ; Very wrong to blaspheme against God [ Father, Son ( Christ ), Holy Spirit ], Mary ; mother of Christ, Saints, Mohammad, Buddha.
    Respect for the divine ushers on respect for oneself, & other persons, & other creatures, & nature too.
    Ireland had that quality ; But, now it is in deep recession.

    slagging ; More often this is destructive ; And, more often of that, deliberately so.

    inter alia

    Michael Coughlin often states that the Irish are scum.
    I tend to agree that we are now.

    I hope that the African nations marked by beautiful women [ Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan, inter alia ] are wholesome inside.
    Ditto that the other nations so marked are decent.
    Japanese 8-)
    Argentinian 8-)
    Uruguayan 8-)
    Croatian 8-)
    Estonian 8-)
    Indonesian 8-)
    The declining numbers of decent Irish men deserve better than the harridans we suffer with for so long.

  38. McCawber

    So – The 50,000 dollar question.
    How?
    How do you peacefully and economically (to mention just two objectives) integrate an invading hoard successfully into your own society.
    Define success first.

    • coldblow

      What is the party line at the moment? Fit in or multi-cultural? To give David due credit on this issue (which otherwise is very little, I’m afraid) I think he has always been consistent about assimilation, probably because if you are prepared to work, share a few pints, support the boys in green and entrepreneuriate, then you are one of us. I don’t know where the Diaspora fits in with that. I don’t think applications from third generation Irish from South America are viewed with any favour.

      But as for the rest of our opinion formers I doubt if it is clear. Maybe they just haven’t got around to thinking about it, so exhilarated are they by their daring moral stand. But it could also be simply because, as with everything in PC World, there are no clear rules. Vice and virtue, guilt and innocence, depend as much, or more, on who you are as on what you do or say. So it could be integration one day, multi-cult the next, depending on the circumstances.

      Also, the prevailing mood or feeling (and what’s ‘trending’ on Twitter and Facebook), can also be decisive depending on the circumstances. Remember the emotional high in September 2015 when the drowned toddlers brought out our leaders (Michael D. and Joan come to mind) to Let Them In! (and ‘fast-track’ the Full Irish (citizenship) to as many thousands as they could be persuaded to give us, to love and to cherish, from this day forth, till death us do part? You remember, when Lucinda was in an attractive compassion trance, a permanent crease of concern on her attractive forehead (Meryl will play her role in the movie)? Remember that the following Saturday both Eoghan Harris and Matt Cooper both wrote articles with uncannily similar headlines, to wit, There Are Times When The Heart Must Rule The Head? (I kept the cuttings. They are stored alongside Leo’s infamous ‘pure evil’ quote.)

      Of course you remember. Well, do you also remember how this great upwelling of the most heart-feltest chari-dee came within a whisker of ruining the lives of the plain people of Rockville Drive, a tiny and modest cul-de-sac in South Dublin? Something Must Be Done For The Travelling Community! they cried. After all, Chari-dee Begins At Home and they (I remember Mary Hanafin being in the mix) were determined to Make The Wish Come True (or rather, Make Rockville Drive make the wish come true).

      When there is a full moon, and Harris’s slumbering Middle Ireland, bestirs itself and rides out to Bring Justice To The World, then anything can happen really.

      So to get back to your question, how do you peacefully and economically integrate the world’s starving masses, that’s how.

      • coldblow

        Correction: vice and virtue, guilt and innocence.

        This was a deliberate mistake because we all now know that none of these things exis… well, not that they do (or don’t) in actuality exist (or not)… and there IS Pure Evil… it’s just that… it’s complicated… the old certainties (real lives can’t be squeezed into abstract boxes) and we all know where that got us, don’t we?

  39. McCawber

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0301/856404-juncker-eu-paper/
    Ireland will bend over backwards to be fast tracked to oblivion.
    I have three children, two are already living abroad.
    I need a strategy to persuade the third to join them.
    Then I myself would turn off the lights, shut the door behind me and join them.

  40. I have just contracted Mosquito-borne Chikungunya virus out here in Tobago, which is a pain in the ass.

    https://www.cdc.gov/chikungunya/symptoms/

    It’s like a very bad flu, rarely fatal though and I’ll get over it fast. I’ve had everything out here – Dengue, West Nile Virus etc. (good news is you don’t get them again if you’ve had them once – apart from in very rare cases).

    At least there is no malaria in this part of the world.

  41. Dave from Denver…

    Insanity Prevails In The Stock Market

    http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/insanity-prevails- in-the-stock-market/

    But Trump’s plans do not have a snowball’s chance in hell of ever actually being implemented. The country is already hopelessly broke – even pension funds are now starting to collapse (link) – and I doubt the entities designated to fulfill Trump’s spending dreams will accept Trump Executive Orders as payment in kind.

    The entire system needs to be reset. The political system needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt starting with the original Bill of Rights.

  42. There will soon be no motivation for migrants to emigrate as the reality of the failing economy will bestow no benefits.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/number-of-distressed-us-retailers-at-highest-level-since-great-recession-2017-02-27/print

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-budget-tax-reform-federal-debt/

    No matter what you think of President Trump — whether you see him as a buffoon, a wannabe despot or the savior who’ll finally Make America Great Again — here’s one big reason you should have some sympathy for him: He faces the worst fiscal outlook of any recent president.

    http://www.nasdaq.com/article/global-sovereign-debt-to-hit-new-alltime-high–sp-20170224-00750

    (Reuters) – Worldwide sovereign debt is set to reach a new record high of $44 trillion this year despite a slight reduction in governments’ annual borrowings, an estimate from credit ratings agency S&P Global said on Friday.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “No matter what you think of President Trump — whether you see him as a buffoon, a wannabe despot or the savior who’ll finally Make America Great Again — here’s one big reason you should have some sympathy for him: He faces the worst fiscal outlook of any recent president”

      Meanwhile the markets like the dow, nasdaq, s&P 500 are going vertical straight up.

      Weird as bejaysus! (Markets that is)

  43. http://usawatchdog.com/crack-up-boom-here-now-rob-kirby/

    “”On the upcoming debt ceiling and the hard stop on March 15th, Kirby says, “If the debt ceiling is not raised, Trump is going to have a very, very hard time conducting his agenda. Also, many of the higher echelons on both sides of the aisle, who could possibly be tainted by the sex trafficking issue, are going to have very little interest in funding Donald Trump’s agenda, particularly if his agenda is outing them for unthinkable acts. So, there is a motivation in officialdom not to give Trump a clean credit card. . . . In all my life, I have never seen the angst, the vitriol and the hate being expressed towards the leader of your country from both sides of the aisle. There has to be a reason for this, and we are seeing things we have never seen before in the history of the U.S.”"

    • “Kirby also thinks that Trump is meeting resistance from both parties because top people are involved in human trafficking. Kirby contends, “There are emails suggesting that vast, vast numbers of highly connected politicos are engaged in human trafficking and possibly pedophilia. To me, there is enough smoke surrounding the issue that there is very likely something to it. My feeling is the powers that be are trying to cripple Trump. Trump has put these people on notice that he’s going to root out these people in human trafficking and in the sex trade. If the allegations are factual, this would be a reason why both sides of the aisle are showing animosity towards Trump and his agenda. . . . There are some people with good track records who say some very, very big names are going to be consumed with this whole issue.”

      Kirby says the silence surrounding the human trafficking issue, where in the last 30 days more than 1,500 traffickers have been arrested, is deafening.

  44. Posted at lemetropolecafe.com

    Netherlands:

    Dutch nationalist Wilders slips to second in poll ahead of election: Reuters reported that the Dutch nationalist Party for Freedom of Geert Wilders has slipped to second place in the Peilingwijzer poll of polls with two weeks to go until a parliamentary election on 15-Mar. It said Wilders was on 15.7%, behind the conservative VVD party of Prime Minister Mark Rutte for the first time since November. The poll showed Rutte’s party was on 16.3%.

    • “”If you look at the 2015 statistics for rape of Swedish women between the ages of 16 and 24, 9 percent have been raped. Of those, 6 of 10 were raped in a public place, and contrary to rape statistics in America, where a woman is highly likely to know her rapist, 70 percent of the Swedish victims did not know their rapist. You can interpret for yourself whether that is a staggering number or whether rape is not a problem in Sweden.”"

  45. Truthist

    So, now that u knows, tough goys, what’a ewes gonna do about it ?

    HEADING ;
    Insider Foretold Mass Migration in 2006

    March 1, 2017

    INTRO. ;
    In a book Henry Kissinger called “brilliant and provocative..difficult to dismiss,” Jacques Attali confirms that the Illuminati bankers are imposing a hideous “Brave New World” on mankind, one divorced from goodness, truth or reality.

    In his futuristic tome, A Brief History of the Future (2006) Illuminati insider Jacques Attali, …

    https://www.henrymakow.com/attali.html

    • Truthist

      ESPECIALLY RELEVANT EXCERPT ;
      Ref.
      Comment by reviewer of this Henry Makow hosted article

      I trust that Grzegorz & Deco welcome this important handle on the leading candidate for France President.

      …………….

      Attali had a great run from the early 90′s till lately. The Globalists peaked from 2005-2009. But only time will determine whether he goes down as prophet, or will be forgotten twelve years on.

      France is in the throes of Presidential election fever with voting day only two months away. Predictably, Attali is lobbying for Emmanuel Macron (former investment banker at Rothschild & Cie Banque and former member of the French Socialist Party).

      • Tull McAdoo

        Bon Bon what are you like?

        Here you are at the back end of an article still waffling on, with your La Rouche/ Makow/ agenda/nonsense.

        Nothisrealname/ mike marketing and all the other personas you’ve created over the last while talking to each other !

        You might be what Seamus Heaney called “wintering out the back end of a bad year” and fly off to some more exotic blog when the weather takes up or
        maybe that’s just me being optimistic…..

        Noel Hill with a couple of reels. “The wind that shakes the barley” followed by ” The trip to Durrow”
        Good Night Ireland. Sleep Well and take it away Noeleen……

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWosPa3SuNM

        • Evening Jim, great points as always.

        • michaelcoughlan

          Well spotted.

          Dismissive self absorbed totally disrespectful condescending attitude of “truthist” should have given it away however no mention of glass seagulls.

          “all the other personas you’ve created over the last while talking to each other ”

          Perfectly consistent behaviour of nutjob madmen living in a cul de sac consumed by their own madness and insanity.

          God love them. Pity; some really smart people wasting their lives.

          Michael.

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