January 10, 2017

Taxing our way to the boardroom refugees

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 67 comments ·

Since the Brits voted to leave the EU back in June, the assumption that this will induce multinationals to relocate their headquarters across the Irish Sea has provided an air of comfort to talking heads in the Dáil — acting as a silver lining to darkening clouds of uncertainty and anti-globalism.

However, this morning’s news that the parent company of Snapchat will establish its international headquarters in London — rather than FDI-friendly Dublin, Amsterdam or Luxembourg — is evidence that this is a flawed assumption. Further to the point, what is the value of attracting such investment if the real decision-makers stay in London?

It is clear that fear-mongering and European-branding alone will not be enough to lure FDI spoils to Dublin and a stronger sales pitch is needed if we are to bring the people that actually make a difference in these companies to Ireland. We need to do something more to attract key personnel, not just capital, to Ireland.

This is made all the more prescient given the political-standing of the United States. We are less than two weeks away from president Trump’s inauguration, and nobody is any the wiser as to what he is likely to do. He is tweeting against specific American companies, sucking up to Putin and slagging off the UN, yet he is a bag of contradictions. You can argue that in the past few weeks, Trump has played a canny, if confusing, game. He continues to rail against international trade and globalisation, yet he has ploughed on filling his cabinet with American corporate executives who have made their fortunes and have had their worldview shaped by the notion of free trade.

Which way will he jump? Will president Trump call the corporate cavalry home, demanding that American money be repatriated to the US and in the process, drive American investment in America? Or will he back away from the rhetoric, tinker at the margins and not risk a trade war with anyone?

The DNA of his cabinet suggests that there won’t be much change, but with Trump, anything is possible. He is the boss now and these guys work for him. It is essential that Ireland is ready for any protectionist moves, because the country that instigates the first protectionist move doesn’t always get all, or even a significant proportion, of the cash.

If Trump goes protectionist, it will not be the first time Ireland finds itself locked out of the international trading system by the dominant player.

Ireland was locked out of the world economic system by a series of statutes called the English Navigation Laws, which were passed in 1660. These laws prevented sugar and tobacco from the West Indies being landed in Irish ports, despite (or maybe because of) the fact that Irish ports were actually closer than England to the West Indies and the American colonies.

The English understood it was essential to control the waves and therefore the flow of goods, and also how important it was to control where the goods were landed. Because the real money, the real value-added, is only made when you get close to the final consumer. He is the guy who takes the hit, in order for the various wholesale traders to take their cut. In every game, the big money is made only when you see the whites in the eyes of the consumer.

Therefore, where the value-added begins to build is in the place where the valuable sugar and tobacco is landed. The English banned the Irish ports from landing sugar and tobacco via the Navigation Laws – the dominant commercial weapon of the day, used by the colonist over the colony. The US colonies suffered similarly. If the gentry in Dublin wanted to have a smoke with their sugary tea, all three items had to be imported from Liverpool or Bristol. The cash came from the colonies to England and then the Irish paid handsomely for the pleasure.

This obviously meant that the Irish were excluded from the primary money-making part of the great triangular trade of the day. The Atlantic Triangle was glued together by the blood of slaves. Goods came from Britain and were exchanged for slaves in west Africa, and then the slaves were shipped to the West Indies and exchanged for sugar and tobacco, which was then shipped back to England. Because the Irish ships were banned from docking sugar in Ireland, they would have had to make the last bit of what was called “the passage” empty.

Even if Trump ratchets up the protectionist threat, firms will still locate outside the US

So Irish ports were locked out of the great slave trade – which is morally comforting now, but at the time meant that Ireland, like the American colonies, was forced out of the globalisation game. But there is always a backlash. We know that Jonathan Swift wrote Drapier’s Letters largely in response to this English protectionism. Grattan’s Parliament was the direct consequence of this for London. The wily Dutch were constantly undermining the English, diverting colony product to Amsterdam. Ultimately, protectionism led to the great patriotic revolution in America of 1776 – a fact that the patriotic Mr Trump might not be aware of.

The interesting parallel for the modern day is not that protectionism happened, but that it had consequences. Irish ports became smuggling dens – because capital always wants to evade control. The Dutch got rich on the sly. The British lost so much money to American traders using counterfeit documents that the Revolution was probably a blessing to many English traders.

But what is interesting is that the English understood the value not only of trading, but of building the trading infrastructure. They understood that trade was one thing, but more crucially the key to building was creating the commercial hubs of Liverpool and Bristol, where the decision-makers who drove world trade would make the big calls.

This is apposite for Ireland now because even if Trump decides to ratchet up the protectionist threat, money, expertise and companies will still want to locate outside the US. At the moment, Ireland is focused on capital taxation to attract in foreign capital, but what about expatriate income tax packages to attract in foreign decision-makers?

Before you flip and say they should pay the same tax as us locals, consider this: in the future, the only way Ireland will be able to secure permanent investment is to have corporate headquarters here, where significant decisions are made. This is not happening now. In order to make it happen, Ireland needs to match countries like Holland that cap expatriate income tax at 30 per cent. This is the kind of thing that attracts in top corporate decision-makers.

At the top of the corporate food chain, there are footloose global executives – and it is hard for a multinational to relocate its key executive functions to Ireland if we tax them at 50 per cent. They simply won’t come. If they don’t come, we are condemned to be decision-receivers, not makers. And if we are not making the decisions, we are making widgets – to be outsourced the next time there is a big global restructuring.

So it might not sound fair, but Ireland needs to become an attractive place for rich, middle-aged migrants with kids, not just poor young ones with dreams. This is the next phase.

Interestingly, a protectionist Trump could easily give us the reason to do this. If he tries to capture American capital, it will try to escape. It will move – and the more protectionist he gets, the more scared money will be and the more likely global companies will move big decisions out of the US. They will then look to move executive functions out of the States and will look to countries with good international schools and attractive tax packages for their board-level people. They can choose where they want to go. So we have to at least match whoever is in competition with us.

We are talking Netherlands here, not Estonia or Poland. We therefore have to offer special packages to high-end people, as well as an international school or schools for their children. Try telling a foreigner that the Leaving Cert rates abroad!

The world may be about to change: we have to pre-empt it and be clever. Remember, 50 per cent of nothing is still nothing. In contrast, 30 per cent of something may well end up being a huge amount.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Quick draaaaaaaaaw McGraaaaaaaaaaaaaaath.

      Hi Adam. Hope your holidays were nice.



      • Morning Michael I am still in Santo Domingo, for another 10 days. Then back to Antigua for 10 days to wrap up things there, then moving to Tobago. Have you decided yet whether you are emigrating with your family?

        • michaelcoughlan

          Hi Adam,

          I am going to see if I can set up an office in Oxford and get established. If so I will have to see about selling the move to herself!

          I think Brexit will be a great success for the UK and nothing at all of a disaster as claimed by the stay side. I hope of course that the common travel area between us and the UK remains in place.

          As an aside Adam here in Ireland we once again have reached a new higher record figure of patients on trolleys in our hospitals, still record levels of emigration of our finest, and extremely high rates of suicide of out young people living here.

          A week ago 16 ambulances backed up at the regional hospital in Limerick because A&E couldn’t handle the intake. I am not being negative just taking a leaf from McWilliam’s book learned from “Neutron” Jack Welch; you must define the situation as it is not as you would like it to be.



          I could go on and on and on………

          • “If so I will have to see about selling the move to herself!”

            Always the hardest part. My cousin just got offered a consultancy job in Mogadishu, Somalia – about four months work at €1,000 a day plus expenses and flights etc, that’s a cool 100K tax free.

            I told him to snap it up – he who dares wins, but his ‘better half’ is predictably putting up opposition. He probably won’t take it.

            “…in Ireland we once again have reached a new higher record figure of patients on trolleys in our hospitals…”

            I have been following this in the news – a total disgrace, they can’t organize a piss up in a brewery in Ireland, a lot of it is down to pure laziness, not to mention endemic corruption. Very disillusioned with the place and I don’t even live there. 2 weeks visit in December was enough for a while.

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          • Haha my phone appears to have gone mad, sorry chaps.

          • mcsean2163

            I am living in Cambridge, lots of opportunities but looking forward to getting back to Ireland. Who actually wants to live in England?

            It’s pathetic listening to you and Adam. The system is run by morons, if you want to change it do something apart from moan!!

          • Truthist

            The Irish State’s Department of Health ongoing hospitals crisis is DELIBERATE CONSPIRACY by the bulk of all the various personnel of the system.
            Even most of the hospital chaplains are all part of the racket.
            Now, that is a sign of a VERY SICK Civil Service.
            The only operation that they can fulfill in a manner of speaking is doing a boob job on a boob job.

          • mike flannelly

            Mick Clifford – TONIGHT show on Jan 5th told us that it was obvious we have a major shortage of nurses.

            Roisin shortall on same prog said that Ireland spend the most per capita on health care in all of EU. 19bn for 4.8 m pop.

            4000 per citizen.

            She honestly told us that financial resources ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

            I think we all know that it is a sad cant do cultural problem in our health service.

            What a way to live your life.

            Willie O Dea was not happy that Simon Harris was blaming poor management.

            Himself and Micheal Martin want to pump more resourses into the system.

          • Couldn’t be bothered mcsean2163.

            It’s not my job to fix it.

            If the turkeys in Ireland want to keep voting for Christmas time after time after time then that’s their problem, not mine.

            I wouldn’t want to live in England myself now either – I did for a few years and it wasn’t bad, getting worse now though.

            Cambridge is a nice spot though, I used to go there every summer for 2/3 weeks when I was a kid because my Aunt lived there. Scotland Road in Chesteron.

            Ultimately I don’t give a fuck what happens to Ireland, kip, they’ve wasted all their chances to capitalize on its huge potential, I’ll keep moaning about it if I want though. Skip my posts if you don’t like it.

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi mcsean2163

            “Who actually wants to live in England?”

            A good share of my mates forced to emigrate (the rest have chosen Australia and Canada). I would also say a huge percentage of the record breaking numbers of young people emigrating.

            Change Ireland? The most important thing to know is the only thing you can change is yourself. I learned this through bitter experience. I tried over and over again to make effective changes from setting up business to local activism involved in establishing food coops etc.

            My advice to you before you come back is NOT to take me at my word simply read the links I put up.

            Most people do in fact Moan not me though.


          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi mcsean2163,

            I forgot to add this link to the ones above;


            If you are coming back make sure you secure your accommodation FIRST.


          • coldblow


            This is Peter Hitchens’s experience of Mogadishu a few years ago:


          • Thanks, I will pass it on to my cousin. I doubt he will go anyway, for a start the missus won’t let him. I would go myself though.

  1. westbrit


    Ireland is in competition with England, Wales, Scotland, Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man, for inward Investment of capital and labour.

    As somebody who has over twenty years advised expatriate companies and individuals on international relocation matters, Ireland needs to up its game. The Irish Res Non Dom Regime since 2008 is a start, but Ireland should go further and extend the HQ Regime Taxation of individuals to all non Irish passport holders, not just a select obscure few countries. No Point in FDI attracting some HQs if the decision makers won’t come because the personal tax rates are too high.

    Further, because of Brexit, and the stiff choice facing Ireland of hard borders with GBNI or Exit from the EU, no Major US or other HQs will Chance being stranded on the wrong – EU – side of history.

    Sorry if this upsets the Official Ireland Euro federasts BUT every penny Ireland got from the EEC/EU since 1973 can be accounted for by UK contributions to the same EEC/EU. Ireland and the Uk should cut out this 43 year old triangular trade middle man (Brussels) and just direct subsidy all 32 counties, rather than 6 at the Moment.

    Oh, and yes, sorry again, as with the ERM Episode (IE stays for a while when GB left), Ireland will leave the EU, with Official Ireland – again – blowing hot air. Gallant Allies Overseas do not care one fig for Ireland, in 1916 or 2016. GB and IE remain connected despite Dublin.

    Best, WB

    • michaelcoughlan

      Excellent post.

      • Mike Lucey



        You have put your finger on the nub of the matter. We are not as big a ‘player’ as we like to think we are. Realistically, what attraction has Dublin over major European cities other than its fully english speaking?

        If the only way we can attract MNs and their top brass is to offer then more and more freebies it will remain a bidding war which is going only downhill.

        We have a magnificent natural, fully owned (ten times the land mass), non transferable , our territorial waters resource, that vote buying politicians gave away for peanuts not understanding it could create hundreds of thousands of permanent jobs on the island.

        Its just a matter of doing it ‘in’ the EU or ‘out’ of the EU. Better to try and do it remaining in the EU but if we have to bite the bullet and go it alone, so be it.

        • Truthist

          “… vote buying politicians …”
          Wrong context from u Mike
          Wrong logic also ;
          Even though some or many or most or all politicians of a time & place do “vote buy”, how can u say with certainty that essentially the giving away of Ireland’s territorial waters — or just its fishing rights — was done on the basis of “vote buying” ?
          As u know, & the claim I made is unrequited by u despite my numerous replies to u on this subject, the Irish politicos gave away Ireland’s territorial rights ESSENTIALLY FOR REASONS OTHER THAN “to gain votes from electorate at home appreciative of EU funds & concessions got in return”.
          Yes, Irish State did get these trinkets from EU.
          But, the real reasons for giving away of Ireland’s territorial waters has to do with such matters as Marc Dutroux of Belgium intrigue kinda stuff.
          “… not understanding it could create hundreds of thousands of permanent jobs on the island.”

          Nay, the guilty Irish politicos did understand.
          But, they chose to betray Ireland.

        • The hundreds of thousands of people who would have got those permanent jobs continued to vote for the vote-buying politicians – therby completing the circle of sheer ignorance.

          • Truthist

            Armchair Generals promoting that we develop our fishing industry shy away from considering that to be a fisherman is :

            an extremely dangerous occupation [ & thus not work for Feminazis, ... & of course Armchair Generals ]

            a very skilled occupation [ although, & thankfully, not bound yet ( as far as I know ) by the "nomenclatura" extravagantly paid Civil SERPENTS to aspiring fisherman having completed a "Mickey Mouse", & "playing the game", & "soul-destroying experience", course at great expense to taxpayers & lucrative income to the course facilitators [ public or quango or sub-contracted ]
            inter alia
            An aside ;
            How are u doing with ur Bitcoin now ?
            I salute u in having the moral courage to invest despite crypto-currency not having all the essential qualities to be “Money” & it being vulnerable in a certain aspect vis-a-vis paper fiat.
            I considered ur interest in Bitcoin as an investment at a timely juncture when it indicated to be the only crypto-currency worthy to be the “fiat” one to be AND consistently on the rise in value vis-a-vis all paper fiat currencies & even Gold itself.
            I hope that u buy some physical Gold — legal tender coins [ e.g. Canadian "Maple Leaf" ] as soon as possible as insurance policy for u & ur children for Armageddon.
            Bitcoin + legal tender Gold coins + farming land owned by u is very good combo.
            How are u doing with purchases using Bitcoin of items & services presently ?

          • Doing well thanks Truthist – business is booming on all sides.


    He is the Healy Rae of social engagement so get used to it

  3. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    Happy new year and all that.

    There is an inconsistency in the article; Snapchat has just located it’s HQ in a country that vote FOR Protectionism?

    I presume the goods you were talking about being landed in English ports were raw materials and the real value was added when they were converted to end consumer products so stopping them being landed in Ireland would mean the manufacturing would have to be located in Britain?

    Was the wealth of England in the industrial revolution not protected from leaving the country through protectionist tariffs for items that had direct competition and for items with no competition then it wasn’t so necessary?

    It’s interesting to note that wealth and the accumulation of profit which is different from wealth depend on “slaves” the natives from Africa then or the Natives from Eastern Europe now!


    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      The wealth of a nation depends primarily on the velocity of money combined with the profit margin.

      The former depends on being at the right location of a global chain/chains, navy power to guarantee safety for that trade, and one’s country currency being the medium of exchange and being the medium of what the French call la thésaurisation.

      The latter depends on the former and on a country being the decision making centre/technology hub.

      Until the Great Geographic Discoveries and some time after – until the fruits of them had been consumed by the Anglo-Saxon world – Eastern Europe was richer than Western Europe – hence huge emigration from Germany and Netherlands (and even Ireland and Scotland) to Poland, which countries were the source of cheap, highly skilled labour for Poland – same as Poland is a source of cheap, highly skilled labour for England and Ireland:



      After the great discoveries, it all has reversed – Netherlands first, and then England, became the high money velocity technology and decision centers hubs, and Eastern Europe has become a pool of cheap/skilled labour.


      How can we then explain that Ireland, despite of being – since 1700s – in the perfect location – was a source of cheap labour for Europe?

      1. Colonisation: England, not Ireland, had a navy to control the trade routes (as I have written on December 17, 2016 at 12:23 am:

      “To that someone might say that there was a laissez-faire system in Ireland and yet there was a famine.
      Well, that’s bullshit though, because first of all, because laissez-faire was for the English: Ireland did not have laissez-faire, but things like Navigation Act – whatever the Irish started to produce, the Brits would tarrif it, until the late 19th century – when PRUSSIA started to threaten the British Empire, and Britain could no longer afford treating the empire’s periphery peoples like shit – so they introduced laissez-faire for Ireland too – and Ireland started to grow faster than England (had Ireland been the centre of the empire, like in the second half of the first millenium when the Irish ruled the primitive and savage Picts, maybe Britain would have had famine, and they would resent the Irish, waving the victim scripts?);
      and secondly, the nature of the empire is that it’s colonised parts play a second fiddle, because it’s not in the empire’s centre interest to allow them to become technological/intellectual centres – that’s why I am against Poland being part of the German Mittel-Europa and Grossraum plans.”

      2. When Ireland became a sovereign state, it was having moronic governments. Dev for example did not dig anything about the economy, and he was lucky that Ireland had England as a neighbour and not the Soviet Russia – because if it had the Soviet Russia, there would be no emigration into England and the US allright, but there would also be no cars, toilet paper and definitely no Celtic Tiger.
      Bear in mind that emigration out of Ireland was higher in the 80s than it is now – so imagine the state of this country with no US investment and no boom-bust cycle [this reminds of a great exchange during two Polish politicians pre-election debate - the one from Donald Tusk's PO (Civic Platform) says: "thanks to Donald Tusk's government, we did not experience a recession like Ireland had"; the opposition politician: "we did not have a recession like Ireland had, because we never had a boom like Ireland had" LOL ]

      “We are talking Netherlands here, not Estonia or Poland.”

      One has to bear in mind though that it was Estonia, not Ireland, that was a member of Hansa (so first-class Europe at the time) – and if Ireland is not careful, it might find itself ousted again: repeating mantras “we are the Atlantic race” won’t change that, because honestly, no one cares – same as no one cares that if it was not for Poland, England would have probably fallen in WWII.

      And despite Estonia belonging to the Soviet Union for 50 years, and Ireland belonging to the richest part of the world for 100 years – Estonia is 19th in terms of internet speed connection, and Ireland is 32nd (Romania is 3rd, and Lithuania is 5th). Does not sound to me like a good use of the Celtic Tiger boom (honestly, with the money that flew through the country and cheap and skilled labour from Eastern Europe available, Ireland by now should have metro, its own satellites, and trains going 300km/h), and – which amazes me most – the Irish are voting again for the very same politicians who wasted fruits of Celtic Tiger.

      Solution? Do not effing vote for any of the f o u r parties. Just don’t.

      • EugeneN

        We should import a Polish governemnt.

        The prolem is that the policitans and the civil service is full of the not very brights these days. Wasnt always true.

      • coldblow


        For Irish history I would very strongly recommend that you buy Raymond Crotty’s Ireland In Crisis (1986) or the posthumous When Histories Collide, which covers the same ground but is slightly less focused on Ireland. It is really a history of civilization.

        In all the capitalist-colonies (as opposed to colonies of other kinds) labour was cheap and super-abundant while capital and particularly land was dear. Because of the damp, mild climate Irish society was pastoral instead of capitalist and, like the other colonies, shattered under of capitalist institutions (in particular that of property in land) imposed by a foreign power.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          While I would agree with you on labour being cheap in capitalist colonies, I would strongly disagree on its not being cheap in non-socialist colonies.

          The real wages in socialist colonies were only a fraction of what they were in capitalist colonies, plus you had to waste hours trying to buy whatever little you could buy.

          An average salary in 80s Poland in dollars was around 20 dollars per month (two zero). The only thing that was cheap was energy and bread (which was btw better than today).

          Just look at Cuba – the size and price of prostiution under Castro and under Batista.

          Happpy New Year!!!!!!!!!

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            on its not being cheap in non-socialist colonies = on it not being cheap in socialist colonies.

            P.S. Another example: 60s USSR. Price of coat: 4 monthly salaries.

            And, remember – if you were not allowed to look for employment in your occupation for political reasonsm there was no social welfare. None of the socialist colonies had any welfare for anyone for any reason other than illness.

  4. EugeneN

    There is no way this will fly. A screwed middle income tax payer is now expected to pay for everything while higher income executives will be paying less?

    The US will keep its HQ in the US. I bet there isnt even a VP level manager in Google or Apple, and I doubt if there is much higher than that planned for SnapChat in London either

    One of the ways we could have competed with London was cheaper housing and rent but apparantly that ship has sailed.

  5. News today that portfolio managers at Blackrock – yes portfolio managers, not back-office grunts – are relocating from Paris to Dublin. Who’d a thunk it…

  6. Tony

    This might not be that attractive. Decision makers in the USA earn big money. Anyone on 416k+ pays a marginal federal tax of 35%. In California the state income tax at that level is 11.3%.
    So the big shots are paying almost half their income in tax as it stands, and are happy to stay in California. I’m not sure the Bay Area lifestyle would be sacrificed for damp and drizzly Ireland so easily.

    • EugeneN

      Not at that level of income, although I know an engineer from there who wants to migrate here, for relative cheapness and free education for his kids. Wont haappen though.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Generally what was surprising in Celtic Tiger that huge salaries in Ireland were earned by public sector, construction and Dublin Bus drivers – highly skilled labour salaries here were never great, except for the IT sector.


      Office worker with basic IT skills and two languages in 2006.

      Dublin: 24k (euros), years of experience required.
      London: 28k (no experience) – 35k – p o u n d s (when the exchange rate was much different).

  7. Original-Ed

    Interestingly the seeds for the American revolution were sown in 1765 when the English imposed Stamp Duty on all official documents there and not Tax on goods. After a major protest, this was withdrawn and then later, taxes on goods were introduced and again, these were withdrawn with the exception of tax on Tea from the East India Company – a stateless tax free entity at the time – that rubbed salt into wounds.
    They tolerated this tax for about five years before the Boston Tea Party.
    The English were considering taxing Ireland at that time but it was considered to be too dangerous – George III had notions of regaining the power of an absolute monarch.

  8. David,
    The 30% rule in The Netherlands does not work like you think. What actually happens is that 30% of your income is not taxable. That means that 70% is and you very quickly hit the top rate of 52% if you are on a high salary. It also mean that you benefit proportionately less from the mortgage interest tax deduction. It is a nice benefit but you do pay significantly more than 30% income tax overall if you are on the kind of salary that qualifies. Belgium has something somewhat similar that helps expatriates avoid wealth taxes. To be honest Switzerland is normally more attractive than The Netherlands if wealth accumulation is your priority. That’s why many expatriates (and Dutch professionals) move from Holland to there at a certain point in their career.
    I think that The Netherlands has a lot more than tax advantages to offer though. It is the world leader in many industries (seeds, dredging, semiconductor machinery, luxury yachts, many specialty chemical branches). The geographical location as a trading hub has been an advantage for centuries. The thing you notice too is that Dutch people will often go a step beyond competitors to get a trading advantage. Dutch models tend to be multilingual (not just speaking English, depending on where the want to work they will generally learn Italian or French). You see the same with footballers. There is quite an entrepreneurial spirit amongst a significant minority. It’s always surprising to read about the different areas where Dutch companies excel, (Booking.com is a Dutch company for instance).

    • Bamboo

      Thanks for your post oranje68 and especially for making things clear.
      David has been admiring the Dutch way of doing things in many of his articles. This 30% concept clearly needs some more homework and so back to the drawing board.

      • Bamboo

        We can’t turn this expats’ income into a Premier league style income. Middle Eastern and Asian countries already attract Maths, Physics, chemistry teachers and giving them very competitive packages. These countries are so desperate in up-skilling their own population and attracting foreign wealthy students. These teachers can come and go whenever they like up until a certain point. Do we want Ireland to go into a prostitution type style by giving some talented workers these packages as well?

  9. Truthist


    “Goods came from Britain and were exchanged for slaves in west Africa, and then the slaves were shipped to the West Indies and exchanged for sugar and tobacco, which was then shipped back to England.”
    Many of the ships went back empty for a period I contend ;
    Such was the high price of African slaves.
    At least a great many of the ships went back empty for a period having transported Irish slaves.
    I trust that the merchants did not want to flood the British Isles market & the Irish Isles market with tea & tobacco & what have u.

    So Irish ports were locked out of the great slave trade – which is morally comforting now.

    FACT ;
    The vast majority of the slaves to West Indies, & North America as separate region too if u wish to refer to it, from very beginnings of City of London’s colonisation of the Americas until around the time of the Great Hunger, came from Ireland.
    Author of “The were White & they were Slaves” ; Mr. Michael Hoffman
    Most would have come from Cork area ;
    Hence the prominence of some of the Cork accents in the West Indies.
    And, most of the Slave Ship owners, Slave Ship traders, were not English per say.
    Ditto the Slave Owners.

  10. Truthist

    Published on Dec 26, 2016

    Please explain to me how starving artists from other countries get the prime real estate in all of Manhattan ?
    Please explain how starving artists can afford to rent a helicopter and hover outside WTC 1 to conduct some art project where we never saw the result or final outcome.
    No one thinks it strange that “artists” are roaming around the top floors of WTC with grappling hooks and boxes piled up to the ceiling? It’s all completely normal.

  11. Pat Flannery

    Ireland was never a full partner with Britain in these so-called British Isles. Yet a large number of unionist people in Northern Ireland continue to think of themselves as “British”.

    It was the British imposition of economic nationalism or mercantilism by its 1660 Navigation Acts that restricted free trade to the point where it finally almost strangled Ireland to death between 1845 and 1849. It was only the 1849 repeal of those restrictive laws that saved Ireland from total genocide.

    The 1660 Navigation Acts were about much more than inconveniencing the Dublin gentry who had to import through Britain the tobacco they smoked and the sugar they put in their tea as David wrote. They were about treating Ireland as a subject colony which continues to this day in that much of our imports come THROUGH Britain. I am forever pointing out this fact to David but he persists in saying they come FROM Britain.

    Thank goodness our Irish Government and our permanent civil service (read Phil Hogan’s piece in the Irish Times on Sunday) know history. Brexit looks like a new round of British mercantilism to me.

  12. Truthist

    Why would honorable inventive & innovative & industrious people — Irish resident or wandering international Irish or foreign resident Irish or Foreigners — want anything to do with Irish State as David proposes when they get to know about the rotten extravagently paid Nomenclature Civil SERPENTS & Professions & Corporate Ireland suits & … the injustice system here that treats the decent poor people on low wages & social welfare appallingly so ?
    Irish State is NOT a “bankable” country !

  13. Truthist

    Yes…Yes…Yes, “the wily Dutch” ;
    The trouble is that u can be only so wily ;
    Because, the truth can out-wile even the wily “captive-nation” Dutch.
    Clearly, the Netherlands is NOT a “bankable” country too ;
    Netherlands has responsibility to their own citizens & foreigners with the investigation of downing of Malaysian Airlines MH-17 ;
    Irish woman is 1 of the murder victims.
    It is obvious neither Russia nor the Russian-backed rebels in Donbass region downed the Malaysian Airlines MH-17.
    The evidence points to Ukraine government having done this dirty deed.
    Wily / Cowardly establishment of Netherlands are doing the bidding for The Dreadful Few.

    Ironic ain’t it ?
    Ironic after USA Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Ms Victoria Jane Nuland as war-mongerer in residence in Ukraine said
    “F..k the EU” that Netherlands which is battling so hard to preserve the EU is actually collaborating to help Victoria — “F..k the EU — Nuland in this matter.

    Dutch court blocks access to data gathered by independent #journalists in #Donbass

    Security situation at the MH17 crash site
    The Dutch authorities have a wrong picture of the security situation at the MH17 crash site in Ukraine, Michel Spekkers told Tass.
    “The Dutch government hides behind the fact that they cannot investigate more on the MH17 crash site because of insecurity situation there.
    I have been working there without feeling any risk,” the journalist said.
    He said he had picked up and brought to the Netherlands some fragments of the Boeing as well as a bone fragment.
    “I took one fragment of the bone with me to investigate here what kind of bone it is.
    But I don’t know for sure (if it was human remaining), I cannot confirm. What I do know is when they confiscated it, two forensic policemen were there and they decided to send it to the lab for more investigation,” the journalist said.
    He said he was ready to share the materials gathered in Donbass with the police, including photos from the crash site.
    However, “they confiscated everything, including my computers, voice recorders, cameras, SD-cards, hard drives,” he said.


  14. terryhewett

    I shall postulate two propositions: one unpleasant, one less so: in the grand abstract terms of the Enlightenment, the legitimacy of government derives from the consent of the governed: the result of two centuries of political struggle for the rights and liberties of ordinary citizens and of governance “of the people, by the people and for the people.” The tradition of liberal democracy, hammered out in the United Kingdom after 1688 with much cruelty and the United States after 1776.

    But in the formative years of the American colonies it was freedoms for only one sort of people: for the blacks and the indigenous in America there was only slavery and genocide: for ironically the US was founded on, and derived its wealth from, slavery, land theft and genocide. The ‘founding freedoms’ were in many respects the freedom to pursue these goals without interference.

    The concept of ‘terra nullius’ was used to justify land theft on a continent-wide scale: those whose land which was stolen didn’t become citizens until 1924. The 1763 Royal Proclamation drew a boundary along the Appalachian Mountains which forbade settlers stealing any more land to the West of the line. This, together with “writs of assistance” was one of the major causes of the War of Independence.

    While slavery was never legal in GB (Ref. the Somerset case 1772), it was the basis of the North Atlantic economy, with New England providing the goods and services for the American tobacco and West Indian sugar plantations: the British fuelling the whole lot by operating the Golden Triangle slave route, which was finally run through companies in London and Liverpool: the Scots dominating the slave plantations of the West Indies but also heavily investing in the Triangle from companies in London.

    The failed 1690’s colonisation scheme of the Isthmus of Panama on the Gulf of Darién which bankrupted parts of Scotland was an attempt by the Kingdom of Scotland to become a world trading nation and was the driver for the 1707 Acts of Union. The Scottish landed aristocracy and mercantile class saw that their best chance of being part of a major trading power would be to share in the growth of the English Empire and that Scotland’s future would lie in Union. Much is made of Scottish influence in the United States Declaration of Independence but a major driver of Scottish involvement was the fact that the English had cut them out of the Golden Triangle slave trade; instead, allowing them to control the more onerous West Indian slave plantations: they wanted a bigger slice of the blackbird pie.

    Four of the first five presidents owned slaves while in office. Four of the next 5 owned slaves, 2 while in office. Of the next 5 – two owned slaves while in office. Of the next 5 – two owned slaves but not while in office. And fully half the delegates at the Constitutional Convention were slave owners. The US was founded and run by slave owners and even the non-slave owning citizens in the North owed their prosperity to slavery.

    And it was pressure from the despised Christian anti-slavery movement on both sides of the Atlantic that enabled the Royal Navy to finally put a stop to it.

    The terms “American” and “British” were at that time in the process of being formulated. “Writs of Assistance” were another cause of discontent: “the rights of Englishmen” were the perceived traditional rights of English and British subjects. Many of the colonists argued that their traditional rights as Englishmen were being violated. This subsequently became another of the primary justifications for the American Revolution of 1775. The American Revolution is better understood as the Fourth English Civil War and the Virginia born Englishman George Washington, in common with the Connecticut born Englishman Benedict Arnold, served both sides at one time or another; GW displaying the better judgement in choosing the winning one. Initially, the rebels wished that if they were to be taxed they should have representation in the Westminster Parliament, something that Britain with its recent history of republican civil war could not risk. The old aristocratic society and the army suffered a defeat from which they never fully recovered and power passed to the middle classes; the merchants and industrialists of the emerging Industrial Revolution who went on to create the empire with which Britain will be always be associated.

    After the American Revolution, Horace Walpole stated that a new chapter had been opened in the history of their country; what America would now become it was impossible to say but that a new nation had been born and that the old world by its creation had been changed forever.

    And changed it was: historian Alan Macfarlane argues that England never had a peasantry in the way that other European countries did, or as extensive an established church, or as powerful a monarchy. English society thus had a more individualistic cast than the rest of Europe which was centralised, hierarchical and feudal; and sowed the seeds of the UK constitutional conflict with the EU of today.

    It was the most individualistic elements of English society; the most liberal fringe of English political thought, the Whig and Republican theorists such as James Harrington who came to predominate. The liberal tradition of Edward Coke, John Hampden, James Harrington, Algernon Sidney, John Milton, John Locke, Pitt the Elder, Edmund Burke, Earl Grey, Viscount Palmerston, Richard Cobden, John Bright and of Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson.

    All of this made America an outlier compared with England, which was an outlier compared with Europe. The US was the offspring of English liberalism and carried it out to its logical conclusion to become the freest and most liberal country ever known to man.

    Of course the conflict did not end at Yorktown. It continued with The War of 1812: a 32-month military conflict between the United States of America and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, together with its North American colonies and its American Indian allies. The outcome resolved many issues which remained from the American War of Independence, but involved no boundary changes. The United States declared war against Britain in 1812 for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by Britain’s continuing war with France, the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy, British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion, outrage over perceived insults to US national honour after humiliations on the high seas, and American interest in annexing British North American territory (part of modern-day Canada) which had been denied to them in the settlement ending the American Revolutionary War.

    47 years later in 1861 the American Civil War began: many historians regard Gettysburg as the deciding battle of the English Civil War which began in 1642.

    But if the Confederacy lost the war; it won the peace: the Jim Crow laws began to be enacted in 1876 and only came to an end in 1965.

    • Pat Flannery

      terryhewett: Wow! Where did you come from? Have you posted here before?

      I love everything you said except this paragraph:

      “And changed it was: historian Alan Macfarlane argues that England never had a peasantry in the way that other European countries did, or as extensive an established church, or as powerful a monarchy. English society thus had a more individualistic cast than the rest of Europe which was centralised, hierarchical and feudal; and sowed the seeds of the UK constitutional conflict with the EU of today.”

      You seem to attribute England’s success in creating the United States and then going on to create an Empire on its culture of individualism as opposed to the rest of Europe which was “centralized, hierarchical and feudal”. Let’s say I need time to think about that. Otherwise keep it coming.

    • Truthist

      Sounds like u copied all of above from a book / internet ;
      But, I could be wrong.
      U could be a Rhodes scholar who has been successfully indoctrinated.

      Anyway, much of the above is false.

      One passage that Tony Brogan should bring u to task with immediately is ur claim ;

      “The United States declared war against Britain in 1812 for several reasons,

      trade restrictions brought about by Britain’s continuing war with France,

      the impressment of American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy,

      British support of American Indian tribes against American expansion,

      outrage over perceived insults to US national honour after humiliations on the high seas,

      American interest in annexing British North American territory (part of modern-day Canada) which had been denied to them in the settlement ending the American Revolutionary War.


  15. E. Kavanagh

    Well paid American’s still have to pay US Federal taxes even if employed abroad. They can deduct taxes paid abroad. Therefore surely the sensible thing to do would be to base any proposed expat-tax rate for Yanks on the US IRS tax schedule.

  16. Bamboo

    Trump and his reckless lot are not politicians, thinkers or make decisions for the benefit of the their nation or their own people. Whatever protectionist threat comes out of his skull is only to protect his own family and cronies. So the world will not be dealing with the US, instead the world is dealing now with a bunch of very powerful people who got there by rigging the electoral system and using a whole nation as a tool to gain more power. If you remember that Trump said before the election that the results are rigged and that he will fight the outcome. He didn’t know prior to the results that the rigging would favour him. But he knew it was going to be rigged.
    America is blaming the Russians for influencing the election results. In fact it has come from within America and the CIA, FBI, NSA are simply not able to get to grips with the hackers. Hence the very vague evidence and data that has been released to proof their argument.

    Do we think Ireland can fight and outsmart someone evil like Trump? You need to fight evil with evil and Ireland is certainly not an evil country.

    • Truthist

      IRELAND [ vis. Irish State part of Ireland part of Irish Isles ] AN EVIL COUNTRY ?


      Irish State has not an album of being evil to other countries.

      But, in recent years Irish State has issued a growing portfolio of single s of being evil to other countries.
      collaboration in the false narratives against :

      Iraq ;
      Dept. of Foreign Affairs voicing credence about alleged “Weapons of Mass Destruction” against Iraq when this accusation obviously without foundation ever.
      Permitting use of Irish airports for NATO military invasion & slaughter of Iraq

      Afghanistan ;
      Permitting use of Irish airports for NATO military invasion & slaughter of Afghanistan

      Libya ;
      Cheering by Department of Foreign Affairs for NATO invasion & slaughter of Libya

      inter alia


      Yes !
      Definitely an evil State towards the honorable citizens of lowest tiers of the socio-economic pyramid.

      The practitioners of this evil :

      the Civil SERPENTS

      the Quangos ;
      Non-Government Agencies,
      Charities embedded with Government
      inter alia

      the Professions :
      Lawyers [ Solicitors & Barristers & Para-Legals ],
      Court Officials [ e.g.s Judges, Solicitors, Barristers, Court Clerks ], Medics [ Physicians, Consultants, & recently announced profession of Nurses ]
      FIRE Sector [ Financiers - Insurers - Real Estators ]
      inter alia

      Corporate Ireland ;
      Financiers [ e.g.s AIB, Bank of Ireland ],
      new private Electricity Companies,
      FIRE Sector
      Supermarket Chains
      inter alia

      Freemasonry of Ireland
      Even “Blackrock College” has its own secret lodge
      Ditto all the other exclusive secondary schools

      the organisation “Common Purpose” ;
      Please do ur own research on the very sinister control they have on Irish State now.

      Feminzazis / Feministas / Feminists / Misandrists

      Politicians ;

      most “Lobby” Groups

      Business People
      Obviously, not all

      Union Leadership
      Obviously, not all
      But, senior leadership ? Yes

      “Illicit Drug” advocates, pushers, dealers, sociopaths creaming from the negative outcomes of drug addiction & drug-related crime
      The country is rife with such evil people now.

      the corrupted Catholic Church ;
      Obviously, not all of religious ; But, many of duplicitous intent ? Yes
      But, the concept of Catholicism & the deity Christ are not evil.

      inter alia

  17. Deco

    To be honest, we need to something more deep than what David is recommending.

    We need to deal with the elephant in the room – the Irish institutional state. It seems that currently there is a lot of fawning over TK Whitaker. Whitaker can to influence matters 20 years too late. And 10 years after the Japanese and Italians took on becomming export economies. But in any case, he did speak the obvious. Much of the recent commentary consists of various statists and veneerists branding Whitaker a what they wished he were. What really happened was that from 1945 onwards several economies restructured themselves. Ireland was a commodity exporter to Britain. We could have been a value added exporter, but we were running down our capital, importing consumer goods. In any case, the imperial preference system ended. The US was able to export it’s vast food production to the British empire, causing severe income drops in Ireland from 1948 onwards. And Ireland started to bleed cash. And the entire Irish system as it then existed started to lose money. The more cash we bled, the more we got into fantasies like Hollywood drama (Ireland surpassed the UK at that period for film hours watched), and boozing. Instead of thinking pragmatically, we started to think superficially. [ This has massive parallels with today ].

    We fed the winner in WW2, and ended up as broke as they were afterwards. Sweden fed the loser, and ended up prosperous. Well, I suppose that is the price you pay for your principles. And it was a very heavy price. I am glad we at least did the right thing.

    Anyway, that was the backdrop of Whitaker. And we dithered for 10 years. During which time Sweden became richer, and Ireland became poorer. Japan turned itself around whilst the left in Ireland became obsessed with handling hardship by reducing the work performed. We hit a leadership crisis.

    We were shafted by the Yanks, and we did not see it. And we still refuse to discuss it. It is simply unacceptable to discuss it. The entire income into Ireland declined. This went on for years, before people realised the obvious. One swallow does not make a summer. And one sailor does not turn around a ship. Basically, numerous people seen the obvious, before there was a policy change.

    Actually, we need to have an honest conversation about the Irish institutional state. Because that IS the problem.

    It is simply unsustainable as it currently operates.

    We are back again, with a collection of people in charge, who are dithering. The same superficial nonsense is prevalent.

  18. Deco

    The question is not “what will Trump do ?”.

    The question is “what will we do ?”.

    From the evidence of the last two months, it seems that Official Ireland wants us to talk bullsh1t. Because that is what Official Ireland is doing currently.

    The result will be failure.

    None of the spooferocracy on the radio are going to get their act together. Those parasites are in control of the public discourse. And they are selling a over-szed, unaccountable institutional state that fits within their mindset, and social mores.

    It does not work. It is running out of “symbiosis” capacity. Simply put the host is getting too small for the parasite.

    Britain is not doing anything wrong, despite the moral outrage expressed by the parasites on the Irish broadcast media.

    Actually, the people who are morally in the wrong here are the liars expressing moral outrage. They are millionaires, from sitting on their arses, benefitting from a massively oversized, underperforming, guilt-trip making, institutional state.

    And some of them are even famwing admiration on Whitaker, currently. Which is fair enough, because Whitaker never took them on – in fact he produced a model that enabled their easy existence.

    Ireland is banjaxed, unless we take on the BS that predominates the public discussion. But that cannot occur, because that would cause a revolution.

    I therefore have a prediction. We will not do this. If you thought that the powers-that-be in the 1950s had their heads in the sand, then I can tell you that was miniscule, compared to the extent that the powers that be today, have their heads up their ars€s.

    There is a complete lack of intellectual honest.

    Posh schools for the kids of the “high value adders” will not work. I know. I have seen one instance of it not being enough to cause a senior manager in the IT sector go to the US, 10 years ago.

    We are still playing Ponzieconomics. It was once with houses, bank shares, and vehicles like Quinlan Private investment. Now it is with IT companies that are not making any money, and houses.

    The whole thing is an illusion. And there will be a severe panic when that illusion is broken by another banking crisis.

    Well, here is one suggestion. We could ask the Dutch to run Ireland, so as to teach us how to be efficient, effective, and nimble. But Official Ireland will not do that. It would end their priveleges.

    We need to deal with our cost base.

    David wrote an article about Italy needing to return to the Lira. Well, I think that we are in the same predicament. Oh no, another sacred cow of Euro-Empure membership. We cannot get our costs into line. Too many millionaire arseholes on Irish TV and Radio telling us how to think, in accordance with their need that we supporte the scam that is making them rich in return for nothing.

    Italy will adapt before Ireland will. Italy at least understands there is a problem. In Ireland we are in the fog.


    Get prepared to move your money to banks outside of Ireland, as Official Ireland plays a blinder (wearing a superficial green jersey) in bringing Ireland back into the abyss.

    And next time around, we will have real austerity.

    At which point official Ireland will blame it on Trump. Actually, they are even preparing us for it now.

    Forget what Official Ireland are telling you, because that is designed to rip you off. We seen this before, between 1998 and 2008.

    There is simply too much lying in Irish public life to avoid another larger cathastrophe.

    Trump did not decide to have PAYE at a marginal rate of 50%. Trump did not tell the Irish people that the banks needed to be bailed out, whilst retaining the same managers, and that this needed to be followed up by a bottlenecking of the residential housing market to make AIB and BoI look solvent.

    The real problem is the leadership that Ireland has. It is more concerned with obedience to idiots in Brussels, than with making Ireland competitive.

    Britain is focussing on making Britain competitive. Crossrail 1, will be followed by crossrail 2 & 3. And there will be a Northern route redesign linking Northern England’s cities to produce one business zone.

    Meanwhile, back in the fog, Ray Darcy will be talking about knickers, and Marion Finucane will be interviewing an overpaid beer sales man who is also head of the main circus event in the country. Green jersey stuff.

    People, be honest – we are screwed the way things are headed. Because we are led by liars. And even more worringly, those liars control the public discourse. They control the collective “cognitive map”. And there is nothing that will dislodge them.

    Ireland’s minimum wage is nonsensical. Ireland’s dole level is mad. Ireland’s transport costs are uncompetive. Ireland’s marginal tax rate on working is too high. Ireland’s electricity price is too high. Ireland’s fuel costs are excessive.

    We have a sit on your arse, and do nothing economy. This is circumvented by a Potemkim village display on FDI. And that Potemkim village is about to get exposed. Brexit has occurred. The spooferocracy have expressed disdain and disgust – whilst sitting on their comfortable salaries.

    Trump is next.

    And from mid 2017, Fillon will be French President, and he will be demanding to put the French institutional state on Slimfast. The Mitterand admires in the Irish institutional state will be outraged. They will, no doubt blame Le Pen, in another highly superficial, organized concert of pretence.

    Our “leadership” are inadequate. They are making disaster inevitable. As David pointed out, Britain is becomming more competitive, regardless of Sterling declining against the Euro. Even beforehand this was occurring. With Brexit, this competitive strengthening will increase.

    Meanshile, in the fog here, Ray Darcy (how much is he earning from a state propaganda quango) will still be talking about knickers. And MF will be moving on to rugger.

    This is not going to end well. Bailout 2.0 on the horizon.

    Make preparations accordingly.

  19. Deco

    By the way, the entire ‘taxes-so-low-that-they-are-nothing’ model itself is no longer adequate.

    We need to come up with something else.

    We need to make the entire system efficient. And that means a 75% reduction in quangos, selling RTE, selling FAS, buildind residential high rise, efficient public transport and talking honestly about debt.

    Talking about the ratio of (real) debt to (virtual) GDP, is not an honest conversatiom.

    Either we change, or else I recommend you get ready for bailout 2.0.

  20. redriversix

    Morning David

    Your article ultimately still promotes a two Tier system of Government , one for the rich or well off and one for middle / lower middle and working class.

    cant work……wont work.

    Again…I repeat.

    This is a wealthy country badly run & nothing will change till we have some cataclysmic event.

    snowflakes in January

  21. Deco

    By the way, the entire ‘taxes-so-low-that-they-are-nothing’ model itself is no longer adequate.

    We need to come up with something else.

    We need to make the entire system efficient. And that means a 75% reduction in quangos, selling RTE, selling FAS, building residential high rise, efficient public transport, reduced private sector transport costs, and talking honestly about debt.

    Talking about the ratio of (real) debt to (virtual) GDP, is not an honest conversatiom. The TASC strategy of lying to the people, whilst enjoying largesse off the public, is not an honest conversation.

    Either we change, or else I recommend you get ready for bailout 2.0.

    Well, if you observe the continual message from Official Ireland, it is clear that Official Ireland has no intention of bing honest with us.

    Therefore get ready for another Greek style debt crisis, within 18 months, in Ireland.

  22. Deco

    18 months from now there will be competition between London, Amsterdam and Paris for external investment.

    And Official Ireland will be concerned with expressing outrage over Trump, so as to police the serfs here from stepping out of line.

    Trump is NOT the problem.

    The problem is how we run Ireland.

    In Ireland, you have an economy that is Guernsey-plus-Argentina-plus-Jutland.

    The Guernsey bit is here because of tax rates (Outer Dublin, Cork, Galway). It’s motto is “Ireland is open for low tax business”.

    The Argentina bit is the corrupt, debt based, borrowing, power hungry, insider run institutinal state that blows smoke out it’s arse (D2, and the county towns). It’s motto is “something for nothing” and more statism.

    And the rest is Jutland (agriland, light engineering, low margin, efficient in some respects, and misinformed). It’s motto is “what the yuck is going on here ?”.

    The Guernsey bit pays the bills, as inefficiently as possible, and is a statistical mirage. The Jutland bit pays it’s own bills, has been hammered by Brexit, and cannot afford the mandated Irish lifestyle. And the Argentina has lost the plot, is selling Peronism/Mitterandism, and is racking up debt.

    If France gets reformed, will the Mitterandistas in the Irish institutional state (modelled on France, perfoming like Argentina) tolerate similar thinking in the Irish public debate ?

    It is obvious that they will not. They will cling to their Chianti, their illusions, their superficiality, and their Terenure Tractors, and will not let go. The shopping trip to Manhattan will NOT be cut. It is obvious that the Argentina-IRL is in control of the political apparatus, the media. Their largesse will end if either Guernsey Irl, or Jutland-Irl ever gets into power. They will not tolerate a debate that qeustions their priveleges, even if it will save Ireland from economic cathastophe. The greatest coup of Argentina-IRL was having FF or the LP in a position of influencing policy making, and thereby avoiding a restraint in statism. With both discredited Brenda Ogle is now trying to get into that space. FG need votes from Jutland IRL to survive, but as shown by the Ming Flanagan effect, this vote can get behind a cnadidate with no moeny and no media attention, when it wants the truth. Guernsey Ireland is being scammed, but is also effectively scamming.

    That is what condemns us to another debt crisis. It is not politically correct to say it, but that is the evntual outcome of the current economic design.

    IRL-Jutland might revolt with Ming Flanagan type candidates. Geurnsey-IRL will go on an austerity diet, and ditch the lifestyle – therby squeezing the economy. And Argentina-IRL will continue talking about the bread&circuses, will idolize the former POTUS for being a borrowing binger, and lecture the rest of us with guilt-trips, about the need for an extravagant state.

    Guernsey-Ireland is about to leave, and Jutland-Ireland either starts a rebellion or else Argentina-Ireland will drive Ireland into banruptcy again !!! Official Ireland will not compromise on it’s illusions and pretence.

  23. redriversix

    Couldn’t agree more Deco.

    Official Ireland hasn’t been honest with anyone for a very long time.

    And nor will it be.

    Why ? No reason to be … no benefit to the powers that be.

    It’s like the documentary with Ian Kehoe ,”selling off the Irish ”

    Every economist knows asset stripping is part and parcel of austerity measures. People have talked about how it works here and outside.

    Yet all the brilliant people ,Constantin , Paul Somerville , DMCW.. all shocked & horrified in their reactions to it on twitter yesterday..

    Quite extraordinary…

    The stupidity , the fake horror .

    Asset stripping , resource stealing & debt are all benefits to this Corporate Goliath.

    We don’t have Government . Senior civil servants run the country. We do have receivers , who take instruction from E.U , ECB , Washington & Berlin.

    We are Europe’s bitch & Americas biggest aircraft carrier .

    Deco , if voting ever brought real change. ? They would have made it illegal by now.

    Treat every euro as a prisoner,


  24. Deco

    Argentina-IRL, is Official Ireland.

    D2/D4, the Dart line, the media, the county towns, the quangocrats, the extravanzas, gauchos like Paul Hewson and his tax avoiding chums, sports-propaganda, bread&circuses, Brendan Ogle, Ruth Coppinger, Brendan Howlin, Michael Martin, Bertie Ahern, Fintan O’Toole, Michael Lowry, Frances Fitzgerald, Denis O’ Brien, Larry Goodman, the beef “industry”, UCD, UCC, Kings Inn. The legal profession. And loads of jokers. Those whose performance is not assessed, but who opinions are fed as official for the rest to follow. High cost, hard sell, and no spec.

    Guernsey Ireland – Paddy Cosgrave of the Web Summit, Intel inside, the business parks of outder Dublin, outer Galyway, Ringaskiddy, Kildare, the horse “industry”, Paddy Power. The accountants. Those motivated by profit, and assisted by public policy. High tech, high sell, high spec.

    Jutland Ireland – Michael O’Leary/Ryanair, Ming Flanagan, Kerry Foods, the dairying “industry”, Dunnes Stores, the tourism sector, the fisheries sector, low margin manufacturing. The fixers. Those who depend on ruthless self-discipline to survive. Low tech, whatever spec sells.

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