August 18, 2016

The Croats are singing about us — we must be doing something right

Posted in Irish Independent · 89 comments ·
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Could Ireland possibly be regarded as a land of milk and honey? Nah, I didn’t think so either; that is, until I came to Croatia this summer and heard that one of the most popular local pop songs is about escaping the scarcity of Croatia for the abundance of Dublin, via Ryanair. The song resonates here as, over the past three years, 10,000 young Croats have emigrated to Ireland, according to local newspapers.

 

The song, which can be viewed on YouTube, is by a Croatian ska outfit called Postolar Tripper, and is simply called ‘Irska’, which means ‘Ireland’.

 

There is a rich tradition of ska in this region, going back to the post-punk days of the Yugoslav underground movement, when the country was dominated by statues of Marshall Tito.

 

Some 30 years and a few wars of independence later, ska is still popular, if not quite as melodic as its original Jamaican version or its later reincarnation on the streets of Coventry and Birmingham.

 

However, the fact that young Croats are flocking to Dublin tells you lots not just about Croatia, but also about Ireland.

 

The push factors from Croatia are identical to those pushing central Europeans out to Western Europe in their droves from behind the Iron Curtain. There is a line from Stettin in Poland to Trieste, behind which young people face enormous difficulties finding decent work.

 

Typically, these are highly educated in the rigid Germanic gymnasium system, which give kids a rigorous, academic training.

 

They also have excellent technical schools that give kids extremely good training in trades. They are a huge resource that is wasted because they can’t find opportunities that would pay, enabling them to stay and create a stake for themselves in their own societies.

 

The pull factor in Ireland is that they can work. They can find jobs easily. People are now emigrating based on Whatsapp messages.

 

When a job comes up, a Croatian in Dublin simply sends a Whatsapp or a Viber message to his mate, who arrives the next day on Ryanair. They bed down on a mate’s floor and thus begins the great adventure of migration. It doesn’t always end up well, but it happens for a reason.

 

There is no better indicator of the health of an economy than migration. When people flock to live in a place, they do so for a good reason, and when people can’t wait to leave a country, this is also a sign that things are not right. People are not stupid, so a country losing young people is a place where something is going wrong.

 

You can’t walk into a bar or restaurant here in Croatia without someone telling you about their brother, sister or cousin who has moved to Ireland.

 

More plan on coming after the easy jobs of the Croatian summer on the beautiful Dalmatian coast disappear along with the tourists in September.

 

These young people are a great boon to the Irish economy.

 

Once immigrants arrive, they create their own demand because they spend their money, go out and begin to live an independent life.

 

They also are working, as most immigrants do — initially at least — in jobs that pay below the median wage. And this is where Ireland is most attractive because taxes at moderate-to-low incomes are very low in Ireland in comparison to other European countries.

 

Far from being a high-income-tax country, Ireland at modest incomes is a low-tax country. It starts to get extortionate only when you begin earning good money. Ireland is uncompetitive at high incomes, but highly competitive at lower incomes.

 

Recently, a left-leaning outfit called the Nevin Institute produced statistics on the reality of income taxation in Ireland. Now, a word of warning here: left-leaning organisations will always say tax rates are OK and that if they are not OK, they are too low.

 

Armed with that ‘health warning’, let’s see what the Institute had to say about tax and why the intricacies of the taxation system in Ireland may be one of the additional reasons attracting young Croats to work in our bars, cafes, shops and call centres.

 

According to the study, at 50pc of the average wage, Irish effective rates were significantly lower than international comparators. The Irish effective tax rate of 3.7pc was dwarfed by an OECD average of 19.8pc and an EU15 average of 20.8pc. This is revealing — and true.

 

Even as your wages increase, the income tax rate is still attractive. So imagine you were earning 67pc of the standard wage — then you are still paying significantly less if you are working in Ireland than working elsewhere.

 

You would be paying income tax of 13.6pc in Ireland. In contrast, in the OECD you would be paying 23.7pc and in the rest of the EU you’d be coughing up 25.9pc.

 

At the average wage, Ireland’s effective tax rate increased to 20.2pc.

 

In contrast, the OECD average absolute rate of 31.0pc and the EU15 average rate of 27.7pc remained substantially above the Irish effective tax level in 2014.

 

As you start to earn well above the average rate, the Irish tax system becomes as extortionate as any, but at the lower end of wages and incomes, people who work pay far less income tax than almost anywhere else.

 

Because young immigrants usually get jobs that don’t pay too well and are happy to simply work and get a start in life, the tax system is a significant plus for short-term immigration.

 

Because they don’t have children and don’t need the health system, they don’t see the flip side of lower income tax.

 

Taken at face value, immigration is telling us we are doing something right in Ireland. It’s an acid test and one we are passing with flying colours.

 


  1. EugeneN

    I don’t fully accept the “bring their own demand” argument. Imagine a country with no labour protection where a factory replaces 1000 workers with cheaper foreign workers. These workers will have to spend in the economy of course but so would the original workers, but now the earnings are less and aggregate demand is lower. Meanwhile the receiving country will have to pay the dole to its now unemployed workers, and rent might increase for everybody, increasing wealth inequalities and reducing spending power of those who rent.

  2. michaelcoughlan

    In the interest of BALANCE McWilliams from the following;

    http://www.youth.ie/nyci/Youth-Council-concerned-emigration-still-high

    Brain Drain

    The number of graduates emigrating (from Ireland) is at the highest level since data collection began in 2010. The figure in 2015 was 39,800 up 4,500 on last year. Ms McAleer explained: “While we welcome the slight reduction in the number of people leaving in the year to April 2015, the figures are still extremely high at 80,900 emigrants – many of whom are highly skilled and educated. This represents a brain drain and will inhibit our economic recovery. We need a pool of well-educated and skilled people to attract investment and stimulate and sustain economic growth.”

    Your article is a bit ONE SIDED isn’t it David or did the sun get to you in Croatia? It will be interesting to see if you wind up crying into your tea putting that young fella you bring to soccer onto one of those Ryanair flights to Canada or Aus (should Ryanair go transatlantic) when he graduates to get a proper entry level salary. Won’t it be Ironic if the people serving him his rubber chicken sandwich and charging him through the nose for it or desperately trying to hawk him a lottery ticket on the flight is one of those same misfortunate Croatians being fu%ked every which way by O’leary et al.

    Maybe you might have the courage to tell him the reason that he has to go is because the economic reality in Ireland is that people like him are simply NOT WANTED!

  3. The youth of Ireland are better off getting out of here and experiencing the world – nothing to cry about.

    They do very well overseas as it happens, way better than the runts left behind here.

  4. AlfieMoone

    ‘attracting young Croats to work in our bars, cafes, shops and call centres.’ David McWilliams

    This says more about the problems in the Croatian economy than it does about the benefits of Precariat Job Tourism in Ireland.

    Wife/daughter just got back from Med/Aegean cruise. You really have to ask why Croatia, which isn’t even strangulated by the Euro, isn’t hoovering up the fallout from the Turkish security situation and the inflated Euro cost-base. You have to ask why the Croatian economy can’t even offer entry-level work as barristers or waitresses to it’s youth who have to flyanair to Dublin to make lattes. just as the Greek & Spanish economies can’t even provide Hospitality Work Experience. Presumably it’s part of the Croatian Globalist Project’s ramp-up/ratchet down preparations for joining the suicide club known as The Euro. Be in no doubt there are other Croation views. My old school mate runs a huge music festival down there, keep meaning to go but I can’t go everywhere, who’d weed the English Country Garden/allotment, etc.

    As for the ‘benefits’ to Ireland. Really? What message does this send to young Irish folk who haven’t the skill set to escape the middle-class tax burden of keeping Ireland Inc afloat? Here’s what it says:

    “Look, young Paddy, will ye give over with your 1916 Cork rebel nonsenses that Andy Mooney was firing up again after the ProdiJig show! If you want a job, move to Dublin like his Dad did to be mocked as a Culchie ‘Poor Paddy on the railway’ but this time, we’ll mock ye for moaning about having to bed down on the floor, 4 to the floor in a dogbox flat box bed-room. If it’s good enough for the East Europeans…. what’s that? A Republic that cherishes all of it’s children? Here’s your Ryanair ticket, piss off to Yonder Saxon Foe like Andy’s dad if ye don’t like it. We’ve learned from our Norman cousins running the island of Britain. We threw out the Crown’s old guard, put in a new phalanx of our own Soldiers of Infamy, so no more of your upstart rebel yell. We have some spuds and scallions for ye Northsiders to pick when you’ve got your Methadone script, Paddy gangmaster-gaffer will pick you up at dawn..what’s that Andy Mooney’s saying: “why don’t they grow all that stuff in Eastern Europe and do something more economically appropriate on these Isles of Wonder?” Wasn’t he giving out about the IFSC last week? Nano-JIT-Drone-Manufacturing Robotics from the Axis of Eejitry for the future Core UK market? WTF is he on about now? Jayzus! Who the hell does that Brummie Boy / Mad Paddy From Brum think he is? The Taoiseach?..”

    “Correct. To paraphrase/upcycle Leonard Cohen: “Everybody knows that the deal is rotten, Young Paddy picks Designer spuds for your foodie-porn show…everybody knows…Ireland is over” Andy Mooney

    Everybody knows the storm is coming….everybody knows Andy doesn’t give a fcUK, that he’s knows he’s been a dead man walking since the incidents at the inaugural Parnell Square World’s Feis in 1970..that he’s 4Real….& when “An Irish Childhood In Birmingham” *drops* and the ghosts of Pearce, Connolly,Collins & the rest of the Celtic Soul Rebels of the last century rise to stand respectfully in line behind Andy, everybody knows that moment means Game Over for Ireland Inc….any challengers out there? Didn’t think so, mofos….FFS!

    When Andy sings his Sean Nos Nua version of “Everybody Knows-1916/2016″ at Kilmainham, there’ll be troops on the streets…but by then it will be too late to stop the 2nd Irish Revolution…it’s too late already…..Art Conquers Economics…each and every single time…

    Next Weds night, Andy will be in Kolding, Denmark to see Sharon Robinson, LC’s backing singer in a solo show. He might be at the Sugar Club too but he might be in Mayo instead…posts comment to private blog, gets cuppa tea…phone rings, number withheld, an Irish accent:

    “Alfie! JM&J! FFS! Shush before ya give the game away!…Patience…it’s a virtue…you’ve waited all this time…don’t blow it now…don’t blow it…yet….because, ah, Jaysus!…when it’s time, we’ll blow it sky high, boy!”

    “Everybody knows it’s coming apart
    Take one last look at this Sacred Heart before it blows….

    “Everybody knows that you love me baby
    Everybody knows that you really do
    Everybody knows that you’ve been faithful
    Ah, give or take a night or two
    Everybody knows you’ve been discreet
    But there were so many people you just had to meet
    Without your clothes
    And everybody knows”

    Leonard Cohen – Everybody Knows – Live in Dublin

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IfmiKnZi3E

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Paddy gangmaster-gaffer will pick you up at dawn”

      McAlpine’s fusiliers;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T75bC7K1o6w

      Luke Kelly on the heartbreak of families especially fathers separated from their son’s;

      Come me little son

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fDNhqzqHkA

      • michaelcoughlan

        Paddy on the road Building up and tearing England down by Dominic Behan

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqATmWWFNSE

        • AlfieMoone

          ‘Blacklisting mastermind’ refuses to give evidence at High Court hearing’

          12 April 2016

          “The alleged architect of the construction ‘blacklisting’ scandal, Cullum McAlpine, has declined to give evidence in the High Court case, due to start next month, to establish the extent of wrongdoing in the industry.

          Unite, the country’s largest union, condemned the decision by Cullum McAlpine not to take the witness box as ‘a further gross insult’ to the thousands of construction workers who have lost their jobs because of the machinations of the secretive Consulting Association and Services Group of the Economic League.

          The revelations about Cullum McAlpine, a director of Sir Robert McAlpine Ltd, came when the company’s evidence was filed for the High Court trial which is due to start on Monday 9 May – and is expected to last 11 weeks.”

          http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/blacklisting-mastermind-refuses-to-give-evidence-at-high-court-hearing/

          • AlfieMoone

            Michael, I have a song called ‘Paddy The Navvy’, it’s based on this and other anthems from the pubs of Small Heath and Sparkhill. I wrote an extra verse yesterday during gridlock on the the M60 during my 12 hour horror return from E’bro whilst listening to the Corbyn/Smith ‘debate’ on the radio…not sure if it will make The Final Cut yet…thanks for the trigger reminding me to search the car to find the lyrics scribbled on a napkin whilst eating a Subway in the hell-zone of Gridlocked TeamGB, in case the missus starts cleaning/tidying my *mobile office/recording studio. LOL!

          • michaelcoughlan

            Good to hear it Alfie. I have written a very moving poem called “Another Drunk Irish Navvie”. I got two standing ovations at my local writing club. I might record it and stick it up on youtube.

            Thank you for reminding me to do this.

      • AlfieMoone

        Both songs resonate deeply. My paternal grandfather had to flee Ireland after some bother with the Guards involving gambling, a burning barn and a shotgun…allegedly. He drank himself to death in Sparkhill a few hundered yards away from where his son and us grandkids lived. He got on my Dad’s bus and looked at him but never revealed himself and Dad never noticed. He lined up every morning outside The Mermaid pub in Sparkhill (now a Balti house) along with all the other Irish day labourers who lived in Small Heath. They told me Irish gaffers were worse than the Brits, as bad as the Xtian Brothers they’d escaped from when they got out of the Industrial Schools and fled to the supposed Babylon that was Brum where at least they could drink, fight & fcuk without priests moaning, mostly because the priests were the worst hell-raisers of them all who’d been expelled from Ireland for being too much, too full on about shagging and ale-ing. Or were pervy Paedo nonces who had to be dumped onto Yonder Saxon Foe….and the hapless Culchie parishioners who’d fled The Emergency only to find it followed them like a dark shadow crossing the Irish Sea….the real story of Ireland is only to be found in The Narratives of those who had to flee the sleveen gombeen economy, fled repression, or were expelled for daring to challenge the 1st Clerical-Fascist Republic of Ireland led by the fake Soldiers of Infamy and their collaborators in the Roman Catholic Church….tbc in ‘An Irish Childhood In Birmingham’ by Andy Mooney.

        “My mother.
        My father.
        My sisters.
        My brothers: slaughtered by British despot thrones.
        My sons,
        my daughters,
        sacrificed to pervert Popes in Rome”

        [The Voice of 'Erin's Chorus' which begins the stage show of 'An Irish Childhood In Babylon']

        “Andy? He means it, man….he’d die for Ireland. In fact, he already has…so many, many times…”

        [The Spirits of 1916 speak from the burnt out GPO, second scene of 'An Irish Childhood In Babylon']

        1:00 minute:

        “when I got to London, I suppose I was meeting people who were forced to leave, who had to leave to survive, I understood what was fuelling the emotion of their music…”

        Gerry Diver’s Speech Project – Irish Tour 2012

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwd87qZhxA0

        • michaelcoughlan

          “They told me Irish gaffers were worse than the Brits”

          I know. No Irish trades person I know will work if they don’t have to for Irish builders in the UK.

          • AlfieMoone

            “I have written a very moving poem called “Another Drunk Irish Navvie”. I got two standing ovations at my local writing club. I might record it and stick it up on youtube.
            Thank you for reminding me to do this.”

            Look forward to seeing/hearing this, Michael. Do it! If it’s a finished work, just put it up!

        • michaelcoughlan

          “.the real story of Ireland is only to be found in The Narratives of those who had to flee the sleveen gombeen economy, fled repression, or were expelled for daring to challenge the 1st Clerical-Fascist Republic of Ireland led by the fake Soldiers of Infamy and their collaborators in the Roman Catholic Church”

          Look where these 9 Irish “Convicts” wound up;

          http://www.castlebar.ie/photos/old/archive/messages/6387.htm

          At least that time we could blame the brits for exiling the finest.

          Only a race of fucking unmitigated scum like we the Irish see nothing wrong with exiling our own finest and replacing them with all those young croatians et al to fuck over with hapless abandon and call that a fucking BOON MCWILLIAMS!

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Dear and venerable Alfie,

      “You really have to ask why Croatia, which isn’t even strangulated by the Euro, isn’t hoovering up the fallout from the Turkish security situation and the inflated Euro cost-base.”
      .
      This question should be asked all the time, and not only in relation to Croatia, but to the whole eastern Europe – but sadly, no one else in Ireland but me has ever provided any answers to that question; I could witness how clueless the Irish elites are on this and other issues while participating in the Trinity College Brexit debate as they mentioned the issue of Constitutional Tribunal in Poland (I wish I could publish an article that would help them to move beyond stereotypes and glib generalisations their brains are furnished with).
      .
      To answer it in one sentence (and I have given more detailed answers in the past) – it’s because had countries like Croatia or Poland that not strangulated by the Euro (let alone those peripheral countries that are strangulated) been allowed to develop, Germany’s 90s stagnation would have been a depression as western Europe, but particularly the ex-Carolingian part of it, would not have been able to export their unemployment to eastern Europe via trade imbalances (90s Poland for example was maintaining 1.5m jobs in the EEA via trade deficits), while their after 2004 wild boom in exports would have been a moderate growth. Why? Because eastern Europe has been for the last 25 years the biggest importer of German goods in the world and, as such, has lifted most of the (still considerable for west Germans) burden of German re-unification from German taxpayers (that included unheard of social welfare payments to east Germans – at some stage their job centres offered them free taxis if they took up job offers in agriculture and still there was no volunteers because their dole was so high – compare that to thousands of job applications Lidl received in Ireland to work for e8.65/hr while commuting by the most expensive public transport in the EU), allowing their pensioners to enjoy pensions unheard of in other countries, and allowed Germany to be the only significant western country in the world to increase its share in global trade (from 8.6pc in 2000 to 10pc) while tripling their trade surplus from 61 to 182bn euro.
      Was there an alternative?
      .
      There were quite a few alternatives. Before the accession talks began, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Poland, Italy and Yugoslavia began to create a political entity called Hexagonale that was meant to become a free trade economic zone (what’s still left from that entity is V4, now revived by the government of Prime Minister Beata Szydlo – this and stopping the plan of the relocation of the “refugees” from Germany – 9 other EU countries joined Hungary and Poland in their revolt – was the cause of info war against Poland coming from the German media). This plan torpedoed the German plan of Mittel-Europa, and Germany reached their conclusion that they would rather start a war in Yugoslavia to stop that plan (and warn those countries what happens if they go against them), so Chancellor Kohl met with the leader of Croats and promised them that should Croatia leave Yugoslavia, Germany will recognise them as a country – some say that Kohl had also given them weapons, but I would need to research the latter more – and recognising them they did; the Croats have carried out the first ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia driving out Serbs, this infuriated Russia – and so the war started, with Saudi Arabia and the third part providing weapons for Bosnians.
      What is the Mittel-Europa plan? The Mittel-Europa plan is, as I have just explained, a plan of surpluses recycling whereby you take surpluses from the jurisdictions where they are created (Germany and Benelux) and siphon them into productive investments in deficit countries (eastern Europe completed with deficits moving south servicing the French Mediterranean pocket empire) in order to generate incomes necessary to buy goods from surplus area. In Ireland we saw a similar process in the last decade, except:
      .
      1. Instead of 77 years of forced austerity Eastern Europe has suffered from thanks to President Roosevelt’s betrayal in Teheran and Yalta, free Ireland experienced a soft landing via visa-free immigration to the UK and turning a blind eye on Irish illegal immigrants in the US – an Irish solution to an Irish problem of first closing up one own’s economy to innovation and competition and then getting rid of those who did not inherit the family job – not because Ireland was occupied by the USRR, but because Ireland does not have what Pareto called “circulation of the elites” (LACK OF CIRCULATION WITHIN IRISH ELITES and the resulting system which benefits only them, David, not the inequality (would you rather be born in equal Cambodia or unequal Hong-Kong?), is the biggest thorn in the Irish society’s tissue – I see some families of TDs welded to the seats in the Dáil since before WWII and yet they still know nothing about everything); the period of Irish isolationism was followed in globalised Ireland by a wild outburst of gluttony during the Taoiseach Bertie Ahern era (Irish kids had the highest obesity rates in Europe).
      2. Being an Atlantic country, when the boom started and wages went high to bribe the voters, Irish immigrants who started coming back, as well as the Irish banks and foreign speculators who started to offer 120pc loans, were not investing in manufacturing, but rather they were facilitating Ireland’s recycling of surpluses left from Mr Greenspan’s Keynesian turn and Japanese carrying trade, indirectly via inflating property bubbles in the UK; while in Latvia for example the property bubble was inflated by Swedish banks (the Viking Reprise) recycling Keynesian bubbles from the US and Japan, which resulted in huge sums of money flowing through Latvia but, same as in Poland, not creating much employment, turning the debt-free Latvians into debt slaves – their imbalance of payments was 25pc and 71.8pc of the credit extended to Latvia went to non-productive real estate). The results were the same in both Ireland and Latvia nonetheless – debt slavery. Property bubble does not add anything to the economy – it is simply a tax on the economy.
      .
      Another alternative was (for Poland, not for Croatia) to join NAFTA. Such offer was indeed made to Poland by George Bush, but Germany have already controlled the Polish Parliament and media by their agents of influence so they made sure the speaker of the Parliament would not submit the motion to join NAFTA – Mr Donald Tusk for example, whose situation now is a bit precarious because he can no longer be sure that Chancellor Merkel will get him a second term as the EU President and thus he is trying to balance between Germany and other countries, was at the time writing for a quarterly “Przeglad Polityczny”, published by the German embassy in Warsaw, and swapped the old Toyota Corolla he earned money for by picking strawberries in Sweden and cleaning chimneys in Poland for the new, flagship BMW – in fairness, at least he has done some real work in his life, unlike the Irish President – at that’s the only good thing I can say about Mr Tusk (pronounced “Toosk”, not “Task”). The Americans (by Americans I mainly mean the East Cost elite, although at the end of the day the whole world finances the US deficits) were far from being innocent either – when Mr Andrzej Gwiazda, today completely unknown in the West but at that time the main rival of Mr Lech Walesa in Solidarnosc, went to speak with the US Congressmen in 1988, they told him that the Polish industry would have to be liquidated if Poland wants to leave the Soviet Bloc because if it isn’t, Poland – with its highly educated (i.e. the engine to Jaguar XK had been designed by a Polish engineer from Gizycko or, Trump tower was designed by Ms Marta Berezowska-Rudzka, while the Nobel price winners Geim and Novoselov were unable to work out the method of producing grapheme for commercial purposes until it was done at the Warsaw University ahead of NASA – of course the West immediately buys those patents from Poland along with her scientists and make it its own), large population and factories, would “destabilise the world’s economy” – so the US has hatched a plan whereby they would reduce 50pc of Polish debt (an equivalent of which Poland has already paid in interest rates in the 80s) – and eliminate Polish manufacturing by swapping Poland’s debts into ownership of factories and then closing them down to eliminate competition thanks to bribing the local political mafias (the move then replicated in Russia and Ukraine).
      .
      Some, including German agents of influence in the Polish media, come up with an argument that those factories were obsolete and they would not have been profitable in the market economy. To that I can say that first of all, why buy them then; why not let them compete and go bust? – and secondly, the low quality/high cost argument was duplicitous. Take as an example the areas of Polish industry I knew a little bit about due to my parents running their own small clothing business from the 70s till the 90s (for which I was constantly persecuted by teachers in primary school as my parents were one of the two in the entire school who didn’t work for the state) – a textile factory on the eastern wall of Poland was built in the 50s to give the work of the local women; in 1990 the Italians commissioned production there fleece, because the production of it would be fatal for the Italian machines; another example of how good Polish factories were destroyed as a result of the German/French/Dutch/US hostile takeovers was polyethylene terephthalate that “Elana” was producing (I remember my parents buying some materials from them), for which they were able to obtain higher prices than for the Western products because they have a stable physical and chemical parameters, ie. the yarn would uniformly stain, while imported yarns formed streaks on fabrics.

      An concise but sallient article on Mittel-Europa if one does not go into books (btw, the excerpts from historical books in Mittel-Europa them were published in “Przeglad Polityczny” – so the Germans thought it all out 25 years ago!):

      https://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20100315_germany_mitteleuropa_redux

      And an excellent German documentary (English subtitles) on the war in Yugoslavia, the likes you will never see on the English TV (I think that after his return from his deserved holidays in Croatia David would simply glue to this once he watches the 1st episode and refuse to eat until he watches the whole lot :-):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PSw97kmsw

      • Truthist

        Benelux polyglot, & polymath, industrialist friend of mine does not rate Poland as ever having been an industrial power.
        Nor does he rate Poland’s capability of doing such ever.

        I did beg to differ on the basis of :

        Polish machinery :
        e.g.
        Lathes

        Polish shipping

        He rates Germany as unsurpassed in their industrialisation leap from bare beginnings to world No. 1 within a mere few decades during late 19th century.

        And, he believes that England — as distinct from UK — will never achieve industrial prowess in any major field again.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          1. They did not teach him at school about the Dutch economic immigration to Poland :-)

          http://www.polenvoornederlanders.nl/?page_id=5127&lang=en

          2. “He rates Germany as unsurpassed in their industrialisation leap from bare beginnings to world No. 1 within a mere few decades during late 19th century.” – does he know this was possible thanks to Prussia annexing the best developed parts of Poland (one Zollstelle in Poland had more income than the entire budget of Prussia)?

          3. “Nor does he rate Poland’s capability of doing such ever” – with the EU designed to create trade imbalances to favour the Netherlands (Netherlands are the biggest beneficient in the EU-intra trade – not to confuse with the total trade, where Germany benefit the most) and Germany most, he is probably right.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Polish_inventions

          4. “he believes that England — as distinct from UK — will never achieve industrial prowess in any major field again.” – the ways things are going with their economy based on debt, sadly be might be right. England had one fantastic period and that was 19th century. It was piracy and monopolies before, plantations after and buying houses from themselves for themselves now. But in 19th century they were a trully great empire and I do not mean it in a sarcastic way – just look at the timeline of biggest ships.

          Even Adam Smith times was the Scottish, not English enlightment – and until 20th century, they only had Ockham, Bacon (this was when they were Catholic, mind you) and Hobbes as great philosophers (I don’t really value Locke, though he is still worth reading) – after Hobbes, even Poland had better and more influential philosophers (Pawel Wlodkowic, Romand Ingarden, Alfred Tarski, Jan Lukasiewicz, Innocenty Maria Bochenski, etc).

          On the UK’s problem:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVxyGxEcMqQ

          • Truthist

            Do u rate Hume [ Scottish ] highly as a philosopher ?
            Ditto, Berkeley [ Irish ] ?

            And, how do u rate as philosophers :

            Shakespeare ? ; Surely, 1 of the very greatest ?

            Thomas Paine [ politics only philosopher & adversary of Burke ] ?

            Very short answers are sufficient for these questions Grzegorz because I am conscious of ur ltd. time, & also wish to avoid detracting u from ur top-class attention to on-going shenanigans in the Land of Ire.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Very short answer because I am pressed on time.

            1. Hume – I rate him very high as a philosopher and a writer. I do not agree with some things he wrote, but he was very good at finding new arguments. Everyone should read Hume, although contrary to a popular perception, his style of writing is not as clear as they say (he had to write Enquiry because the Treaty was to sprawly and verbose).
            In terms of clarity, the most precise philosophers that have ever written were Jan Lukasiewicz (Quine came to Warsaw to learn Polish to read him in original, Roman Ingarden and Robert Stalnaker – a benchmark for clarity).
            2. Berkeley is totally underrated. Admittedly, his philosophy was proven to be logically impossible by Kazimierz Ajdukiewicz, but still… it is better to lose with Berkeley than to find with Rousseau (who nonetheless also should be read as the most influential philosopher of our culture). I put Berkeley’s dialogues ahead of Plato’s in terms of the writing style. Ireland would be so much better off reading Burke and Berkeley at schools than James Connolly.
            3. I did not read Thomas Paine.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Oh, Shakespeare – I forgot. I do not know what to think of him (even though I remember some small excerpts from his play we were staging when I worked for the Abbey!). My Irish-ex was crazy about him. This may shock some people, but in English language poetry I actually value the romantics the most. Rather like Mao on the French Revolution, I have not yet shaped my opinion on Shakespeare because it is yet too early to say ;-)

            Wittgenstein on Shakespeare:

            “People look at [Shakespeare] in amazement almost as a spectacle of nature. They do not have the feeling that this brings them into contact with a great human being. Rather with a phenomenon.

            It seems to me that [Shakespeare’s] plays are like enormous sketches, not paintings; they are dashed off by one who could, so to speak, permit himself everything. And I understand how one can admire this & call it the highest art, but I don’t like it.”

            “I do not think that Shakespeare can be set alongside any other poet. Was he perhaps a creator of language rather than a poet?

            I could only stare in wonder at Shakespeare; never do anything with him.

            I am deeply suspicious of most of Shakespeare’s admirers. I think the trouble is that, in western culture at least, he stands alone, & so, one can only place him by placing him wrongly.

            It is not as though S. portrayed human types well & were in that respect true to life. He is not true to life. But he has such a supple hand & such individual brush strokes that each one of his characters looks significant, worth looking at.

            “Beethoven’s great heart”–no one could say “Shakespeare’s great heart”. ‘The supple hand that created new natural forms of language’ would seem to me nearer the mark.

            The poet cannot really say of himself “I sing as the bird sings”–but perhaps S. could have said it of himself.

            I do not think Shakespeare could have reflected on the ‘lot of the poet’.

            Neither could he regard himself as a prophet or teacher of humanity. People regard him with amazement almost as a spectacle of nature. They do not have the feeling that this brings them into contact with a great human being. Rather with a phenomenon.

            I think that, in order to enjoy a poet, you have to like the culture to which he belongs as well. If you are indifferent to this or repelled by it, your admiration cools off”

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Wlodkowic was before Hobbes of course (he is forgotten even in Poland, but at the time he was equally as influential as Hobbes and Locke) – but my time to write here is not unlimited.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawe%C5%82_W%C5%82odkowic

          P.S. Burke was less naive than Locke, who btw wrote a lot of his stuff to suit his sponsors

          • Truthist

            Grgegorz,

            Read all ur Links ;
            Interesting

            I very impressed with the house constructed by Wlodkowic [ shown in the Wikipedia.org link above ] ;
            Very advanced for its time IMHO

            Ur original submission –August 19, 2016 at 4:48 pm — is no less interesting ;
            Will copy & paste into a word processing document & file as very useful interpretation of what’s been going on at certain levels with Europe in recent decades.

      • Thanks Kris, interesting points. D

      • coldblow

        Grzegorz

        Interesting programme from TV Libertés about a recent pro-EU demonstration in Warsaw. The MSC reported 240k, Figaro doubled it to 500k. Police and others estimated 45k.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Edanv2cQw

        The same thing happened recently with the anti-Brexit protest in London where the numbers were wildly exaggerated. This is the one with the ‘iconic’ picture of a man with a Union Jack-painted face kisses a girl with a EU flag on her face. By the way did you see the picture of the EU flag after the referendum where one of the stars has turned into a teardrop?

        I watched the first of the episodes in your link about he Kosovo intervention. What is your own explanation for what happened then? I remember being suspicious of the NATO bombing of the bridge in Belgrade.

        • coldblow

          By the way, the iMedia series is very good, concentrating as is does on misrepresentation by the liberal media. There is endless material.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          I’ll get back to you on the pro-EU demonstrations in Warsaw some other day, Coldblow, because it would require a few things to be explained. I do not think that the whole thing has any longer anything to do with the EU and the refugee crisis. I think it has mainly to do with the fact that Warsaw is the only remaining big place in Poland where its president (a woman who had dispossed small business owners) can give those who were taken off the cradle any synecures, and so they gather there, their numbers exaggerated by a factor of 10. Their final goal however is to trigger the EU intervention (one of them was so stupid that he even said that). The attitude of the young Poles, who are in 90pc conservative or libertarian, is like: if Europe wants to become a caliphate, let them at it. Btw, 10 EU countries now did not take 120,000 of the quota imposed by Germany (it’s the compulsory aspect, not even the actual migrants, that irritates them), but media are quiet about it.

      • AlfieMoone

        Many thanks Grzegorz Kolodziej for this detailed overview. At some stage I need to get to grips with Eastern Europe on a deeper level but time is short at the moment. I’m in Copenhagen, Malmo & Vilnius soon for a week to do a scan of the Baltic-Scandi situation but my focus is really on how Danish culture went on a fractal alogrithm from when the set up Dublin to their astonishing situation today. I’m in Vilnius to visit a childhood friend but the situation all over the Baltics radiating from Denmark intrigues me, again mainly insofar as I want to understand how and why Ireland fucked up so badly. My assumption is that it’s to do with the Danish Protestant Reformation & the English Henry V111 bifurcation but I’ve an open mind. Thanks again.

        • coldblow

          Alfie, I would strongly recommend Raymond Crotty, either Ireland in Crisis or When Civilizations Collide, the latter a posthumous rehash of his arguments which is also a compelling read and has enough added insights to make it worthwhile buying it as well. He argued that Ireland’s problems stem directly from its capitalist colonization in Elizabeth I’s reign onwards. In a wider sense his work ia a history of civilization, and quite unique as far as I can make out. He takes it all back to the Neolithic revolution and the agriculture, which was of overwhelming importance from the very start. As I recall he refers specifically to Denmark’s success in Ireland in Crisis, comparing it of course with Irish stagnation.

          • AlfieMoone

            Many thanks, coldblow. I’m aware of his work and aware it would be nourishing to dig deeper. I will deffo follow up your recommendations.

            Alfie

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Pity I do not have time to properly respond; all I can offer you is a curiosity that Cnut the Great, the king of Denmark and then England, was a grandson of the first king of Poland, Mieszko the first (Cnut is even a Polish word).
          Another thing I can offer is that within the Warsaw Pact, Poland was meant to attack Denmark while Russia was to attack Germany. It just happens that my best friend’s father (from primary and secondary school) was in the Navy training precisely that, so they also had to learn a bit of Danish. Years later, I met a Danish girl whose father was in Danish navy training to repel the expected attack and so he learned a bit of Polish, and passed that fascination onto his daughter. Now Denmark and Poland cooperate with each other more closely on the Baltic Sea than with the countries they are between. So perhaps the key to learning about new cultures is to hatch the landing operation plans and let the people know each other that way? ;-)

  5. Deco

    The Nevin institute are living off the tax system. Of course, they want more taxes. The are the advocacy think tank for more state quangoes, more largesse, and more “programs” that underdeliver.

    I have often heard them complaining about Ireland’s tax to GDP ratio being too low. It seems to be a guilt-trip.

    Ireland has the highest indirect tax rate in the world. Plus all the stealth taxes.

    Ireland is good at attracting people to take their second job in their career in Ireland. There is not only a dearth of opportunities in the countries formerly ruled over by Marxists, but even in countries currently ruled over by Keynesians.

    When they reach job number 4, they go elsewhere. Call that opting out of being part of the scam that sees workers in this country being used to prop up the two “pillar banks”. Be with AIB ? Eh, no thanks.

    • Truthist

      Keynesism is to pave the road towards its dialectical protagonist ; Marxism.

      The Nevin Institute et all such fronts are motivated to bring “by creep” Marxism upon Ireland.

      Arguably, we already have Marxism for the Jobless ;
      And, also in the cosy shop arrangement for the bulk of the Civil Serpents / Nomenklatura ;
      The Civil Serpents / Nomenklatura being the real “Unemployed” ;
      Although, these Serpents can be very busy at making life hell for the underclasses.
      So, the phrase “unemployed” in this context should refer to ;
      “unemployed in doing useful labor”.

  6. Deco

    Maybe we might learn something from their technical schools, in light of the FAS (renamed Solas in what was purely an exercise in superficiality).

    Minister Ross broke the FAS scandal – perhaps he might get something moving on this.

  7. Deco

    Alfie, the problem is not that “everybody knows”.

    It is that very few know. Far too few know the game is rigged. There is a need for naive suckers to be fed into it, to keep the pretence alive.

    That makes a knowledge society unworkable and underperforming.

    • AlfieMoone

      Deco, there’s the conscious mind knowing and there’s the gut feeling. When I was giving out in Cork recently with my Brummie gob, you’d expect me to have gotten punched out but it was very revealing how the quiet lads in the corner just listened to my mocking banter with relatives/friends and then started asking questions. The more I let rip the more they said they agreed. If I did that in Dublin I’d be strung up. Dublin sells itself as the heritage home of 1916′s rebel yell but it’s anything but. Cork, Limerick and Kilkenny still have signs of life but you’d expect to find some beyond in the Pale, outside the clutches of The Globalist Trojan Horse citadels of D4 and the IFSC. #IRExit is an inevitability after #Grexit. The UK can tell the EU to fcUK off and die but it’s more complicated for Greece, Ireland and the other ‘PIGIS’ who aren’t ‘net contributors’ over decades like the UK. So when a real Paddy gets Power, he/she needs to play a smart game with a poker face. Or maybe Enda will wake up and stop stressing about the cross-dressing rumour mill. I was only jestin’ Enda…”all of the rumours keeping me grounded..I never said, I never said that they were completely unfounded…”

      If David hasn’t banned me by Kilkenomics 2016 I’ll be amazed. Time to ramp it up as the Ouija board is shaking and Zozo says something big is going to kick off in the EU amidst our ‘gallant Euro allies’…..once the summer silly season and family beach retreats finish…

  8. mcsean2163

    It’s great to see Ireland is still the land of a thousand welcomes, I think the Brits have really shot themselves in the foot.

    England is the land of a thousand muggers!

    • AlfieMoone

      U wot mt8? Ah, yes..Brexit!

      I fink you is confused.com. You mention the Brits, of which the Scottish were/are an integral part as anyone who’d watch the fireworks outside my room in front of Edinburgh Castle at the end of the Monday and Tuesday Military Tattoo jamboree would understand. Then you have a go at The English for no discernible reason other than you’re thick. After Brexit, it’s Great Brexitan, matet. It’s England and Wales aka: Core UK. But don’t be surprised if the North Britons of Edinburgh decline Fintan O’Toole’s kind offer to the Scottish nation to join the Republic of Ireland and Norn Iron in his proposed Axis Of Eejitry. I walked past the Adam Smith statue whilst Globalist afficionados did their Esperanto-Europa-Scotland to remain in the EU bollocks, half expecting Sturgeon and Salmond to dance a highland jig alongside them. Trust me, when the Scots check their pocketbook, Ref2 is dead in the water, just as the first one was. Just as any Ref in the Republic of Ireland to take on the burden of a United Ulster will be banjaxed once the prospect of a decade long Depression and extra 20% tax is factored in. Keep your silly theme-park céad míle fáilte happy clappy folkloric nostrums for tourist tea-towels whilst the rest of us get on with forging a new Ireland that will be fit for purpose once the EU implodes and Ireland’s fair-weather ‘gallant Euro allies’ are exposed as just another bunch of foreign interlopers looking for a quick buck at Paddy’s long-term expense. You wanna argue, mt8? Outside! Not just Croatians who wish they were part of a fictitious Paddywhackery fantasy world, the Germans are up for it too, though that’s unfair as this lot are actually as good as any of the supposed ‘real craic merchants’ you hear droning on in Temple Bar like they’re working a shift in a factory, which they are: in the theme-park Dublin tourist factory. Dublin is dead. We look to Cork for the language we use…Now, having slagged off this column I guess it’s time to listen to the Croatian take on Sean Nos[Nua-Ska]

      Solid Ground – Stimmung und allerbeste Laune im Kartoffelkeller Giebelstadt

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8qNcWZA1Wg

  9. AlfieMoone

    I have listened to & watched ‘Postolar Tripper- Irska[Official music video]‘ I want those minutes back, McWilliams!

    Compare and contrast this trite paean to Globalism with the ultimate Brexit anthem that is ‘GhostTown’ by The Specials, which has defined 3 decades of de-industrialisation in the UK. I saw them at Wolves Civic last year and they were electric even with some core members gone. This song epitomises why the West Midlands/Mercia Shire Irish bastion of rebellion stood out as the lead Brexit area. This song defined the emergence of Globalism By And For The Rich as the enemy and still resonates 3 decades later that Globalism is a con for the working poor of the UK (and Ireland) and Croatia, unless you’re prepared to grin and bear the sleveen dream of a Ryanair dormitory existence in a dog-box in some edgy, vibey, up’n'coming area of London, Dublin or…are there even any yuppies in Zagreb yet? Or have they all moved to London and Dublin?

    A priest mate of mine is resting up on the Wild Atlantic branded fringe this summer. In long phone convos he bewails the fact the local GAA team is now based in London just as it was when he was a young man and London was his parish and playground…and I’m listening to these songs alternating on the laptop and imagining a Sean-Nos Nua version of ‘GhostTown’ for my stage show, with a video set in Castlebar with an Enda doppleganger as the gangster overlord running the place behind an endearing smile with a dodgy sub-life barely concealed. I will mood-board this further once I pick up my son from Hereford train station….I’ll get my priest collaborator to translate the lyrics of this Special’s classic into gaeilge as he’s fluent, he’s from one of the islands…but I best not say which one…LOL! Why didn’t this occur to me before? Thanks to DMcW for the trigger article even if listening to these gurning, grinning Croatians made the bile rise as I thought of all the suicides amongst those exiled under the Troika, either exiled abroad or exiled into deathly depression in stricken ‘real Ireland’ beyond the Norman Toraigh Bankster Tax Whore fortress of Dublin….still not banned, need to turn the dial up to 11….soon come….soon come!

    ‘The Specials: How Ghost Town defined an era’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13780074

  10. mishco

    I don’t see any difference in the motives of these E.Europeans et al coming to us and, say, the Turkish “Gastarbeiter” who “built up” Germany. Young labour will always migrate given the permit, and send a lot of the cash home to build a house. It has nothing to do with our “doing something right”. It’s happening in so many countries and always will.

    Where I do see a difference with the German example is in how the profits reaped from their labour are used by the host country. Why do we still export our own youth, while the Germans train theirs properly for highly skilled jobs in industry and management?

    I also don’t buy the argument aired above that all “our best” have to leave, while the ignorant “runts” remain. Many of us today leave to get more money, hardly the noblest motive, while some of those who stay may – for example – want to earn an Olympic medal in West Cork.

    Then there are those who stay but hop abroad with the Government’s blessing to earn Gold in ticket-touting. Will we ever rid ourselves of these gombeens? Could they not be exiled to Somalia to manage their economy?

    By the way, I left Ireland more than 50 years ago for a) money, b) love and c) wanderlust (not necessarily in that order) and recently spent 14 months back in the real Ireland (Cork). I gave Dublin a wide berth. Back in Korea now, but I’ll return to Cork again, provided I stay healthy! And let me just add that yours is the only Irish “news source” I’ve been following for the last 10+ years, David, so YOU must be doing something right, if not the Gubmint!

  11. michaelcoughlan

    Hi,

    David McWilliams,

    If you only ever give one lecture as a professor this is the one to give. A TED talk by the author rich dad poor dad Robert Kiyosaki.

    @Tony Brogan;

    I have started the video at the most important part. Kiyosaki states that the teaching of the way the financial system works in the US is FORBIDDEN in the sate school system. I shit you not;

    https://youtu.be/abMQhaMdQu0?t=694

    • McCawber

      I vaguely remember years ago being told that the first generation made the wealth and the third generation blew it.
      I made up my mind then that if ever I became wealthy (wealthy meaning inconme greater than expenditure on an ongoing basis) that I would do my best to indoctrinate my grand children appropriately, that this was in fact the prime duty of all grandparents.
      I now realise that certainly in the current environment protecting the aforementioned wealth *in the longer term) iis a lot more difficult than I ever imagined.
      Gold abd Silver seem to be the only realistic options and given how limiting that us I would be concerned that “Official Power’ already has a plan to deal with those options.
      Hard physical assests like property or even farmland seem like other possibilities but I’m neither a franer or young enough.
      Don’t put all your eggs in one basket is good advice but it’s a lot easier said than done no matter how defensive your strategy is.
      I have some of the most creative minds I know thinking about this and well, I’ll keep you posted.

      • Nobody ever won a gold medal at the Olympics by diversifying.
        Andrew Carnegie is credited with saying, “Put all your eggs in one basket , and watch that basket”.

          • in that case they all diversified. The multi event athlete could not win a medal in the single event competitions. There are no world record events set by multi competitive athletes.

            Diversification will, if done enough, make one totally average in aggregate.

          • Truthist

            U do make a valid point about sport in general ;
            Re ; sport in general,- it is best to specialize for to achieve pinnacle success.

            But, there are rare exceptions who can achieve pinnacle success in even unrelated sports.

            I do not know how u can say ;

            “in that case they all diversified.”

            This statement is not cogent with the facts that I supplied.

            Then u say ;

            “The multi event athlete could not win a medal in the single event competitions.”

            This statement of ur’s is contrary to the facts found in the Wikipedia.org link given above.

            Did u not even read this link in which it is clear that Edwin Flack won 2 gold medals at 1 Summer Olympics only ?

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Flack

            And then, u do seemingly trump me with ur 3rd effort ;

            “There are no world record events set by multi-competitive athletes.”

            That statement of ur’s could well be true ;
            Circumstances dictate that I retire now from researching its status.

            Finally, u make another observation which would be wise counsel for many persons & companies to heed for themselves ;

            “Diversification will, if done enough, make one totally average in aggregate.”

            But, my qualification with the crucial adjective “many” allows for close to many to run contrary to that very observation ;

            Immediately, I proffer that Hugo Salinas Price as a person who has excelled in 2 diverse fields :
            vis.

            Business

            “Real” Economics

            And, it HSP arguably has also excelled at ;

            Statesmanship,

            And, even more arguably at ;

            Statecraft in its benign sense.

          • Truthist

            Edit ;
            .

            And, Hugo Salinas Price arguably has also excelled at ;

            Statesmanship,
            .

            And, perhaps more arguably at ;

            Statecraft in its benign sense.

          • He was not exactly a fast runner. He just happened to be at the first olympics. local club runners could beat him (Flack). There was no competition. He ran middle distance. 400-1500 meters, or a quarter mile to one mile distance.

            Where mankind as a species does excel is in long distance running. No other animal on earth can out run a human, in required condition, where it is over a long distance.

            Born to Run is a great book.

            https://www.bookdepository.com/Born-Run-Christopher-McDougall/9781861978776

          • McCawber

            @Tony
            We are in Pyhric territory here.
            It’s not about winning or losing, it’s about being competitive.
            About remaining intact.
            Better to not have tried and failed than to have tried and failed.
            ie A man who knows his limitations is a man who will be very hard to overcome.
            Implicit in that statement is that a man who knows his limitations will endeavour to eliminate them or minimise them at least.

          • Truthist

            McCawber,

            I have done further reflection on ur premise.
            And, I still concur ;

            “Do not put all ur eggs in the 1 basket !”

            e.g.s

            Mono-crop agriculture is tempting misfortune.

            When the crazy time comes, baskets of Gold, Silver, Land, good food stuff + stored water to sustain u beyond 30 days at least, firearm[s], & other weapons, inter alia would be wise versus relying on 1 basket of Golden Eggs.

            And, I add that we should not be judging matters always in “quantitative” terms.
            “Qualitative” terms would be sane for a great many circumstances where “quantitative” terms are given reign.

  12. Truthist

    Many decent Irish are saying that the foreigner is welcome to the place now because the bulk of the natives have gone rotten / corrupt & as a consequence the Irish State is “a Shit-Hole” ;
    At least Cork City has become so ;
    According to a wise porter that has kept the door for many a noteworthy Brother of the Cork Legal Mafia.

    “Why did Rome collapse ?”

    “Rome did not collapse on account of the Rich becoming corrupt ;
    The Rich are always corrupt.”

    “Rome collapsed because the Poor became corrupt.”

    • michaelcoughlan

      @ David Mcwilliams;

      Bail in in Ireland McWilliams. You get LESS back from the bank than the amount you lodged. Of course when the bank steal your money they don’t say of course we STOLE your money they simply say we are applying a charge that has to be passed onto the central banks who need YOUR stolen money to continue to prop up banks which are more insolvent than ever. SURELY McWilliams since these charges apply to larger deposit holders they will have to bring in capital controls to stop a run on the bank?

      How many hundreds did you lodge citizen? I lodged 5! No citizen you lodged four. You must understand that when dealing with a bank you really believe you lodged four and not in fact 5;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR0PERysHGc

      • +1

        More likely to find your 5 lodged is reduced to two. You are left 40% of your account while the other 60% is converted to bank stock at yesterdays value to be eventually redeemed at 10% of that value.

        100 euros deposited.. 60 euros used, bailed in to become bank stock, Becomes worth 6 euros. Total remaining from your 100=46.

        Of course the bail in is being proposed to protect the taxpayer from funding a bail-in. Obviously the depositor can not be a taxpayer?

  13. Truthist

    Of course, according to George Soros’s belief system ;

    “The unborn child is not even worth the finger-nail of a …”

    Another way to “ethnically cleanse” the land.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/billionaire-soros-funding-groups-fighting-to-repeal-irish-abortion-ban-34980624.html

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Another way to “ethnically cleanse” the land”

      Yes. Soros won’t say the real reason but the reason is they need to reduce the world’s population to a tiny number of people from which all wealth can transfered to the stock market bubbles rather than being SPENT RAISING KIDS WHICH WON’T EXIST BECAUSE OF ABORTION.

      Michael.

      • michaelcoughlan

        It’s not as mad as it sounds. They had a similar idea in 1800′s Ireland. The plan then was to reduce the population to about 500k just enough to farm the land to send the food to sprawling cities in the UK which sprang up as a result of the industrial revolution.

        • michaelcoughlan

          The easiest way of course that time to ethnically cleanse Ireland was to allow 1m to emigrate and 1m starve;

          Poem by Eavan Boland;

          Quarantine

          In the worst hour of the worst season
          of the worst year of a whole people
          a man set out from the workhouse with his wife.
          He was walking – they were both walking – north.

          She was sick with famine fever and could not keep up. He lifted her and put her on his back.
          He walked like that west and west and north.
          Until at nightfall under freezing stars they arrived.

          In the morning they were both found dead.
          Of cold. Of hunger. Of the toxins of a whole history. But her feet were held against his breastbone. The last heat of his flesh was his last gift to her.

          Let no love poem ever come to this threshold.
          There is no place here for the inexact
          praise of the easy graces and sensuality of the body. There is only time for this merciless inventory:

          Their death together in the winter of 1847.
          Also what they suffered. How they lived.
          And what there is between a man and woman.
          And in which darkness it can best be proved.

          • Thank you Michael. you are on a roll!!

          • Ireland’s population in 1840′s was 8.5-9 million v. England at 11 million. 5 million or more were displaced or died over a 5 year period.
            1.5 million died in Ireland.
            1.5 million moved to UK, England and Scotland. (many of the next generation moved from the UK to the US, Australia and other places.My father had 56 first cousins with 30 odd on the Irish side of the family. Many were in the States where they married and raised families. Over 85 million US residents can claim Irish ancestry.)
            1 million odd made it to North america (Canada and US)
            Another 1 million died on the way over on the “coffin ships”.

            The population of Ireland continued to fall until the early 1960′s when there was an economic revival.

            All stats are from memory so please do not tack me to task. corrections are welcome!! :-)

          • http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ireland/population

            “Looking back, in the year of 1960, Ireland had a population of 2.8 million people.”

      • Truthist

        Whether they get to “control” u or not, they “despise” u.

        U = Truthist, Michael Coughlan, …

        Take care,

        Truthist

      • michaelcoughlan

        @ Alfiemoore

        This is an example of a short story I wrote and read at my reading club recently. The title deliberately misdirects the reader so that the person is not dissuaded from reading the piece if I declared at the start that it is in fact about covert Irish Government 1 child policies being implemented in Ireland.

        Michael.

        240 Seconds (Michael Coughlan ©)

        240 seconds is all I have to explain to you the listener how the Irish government in the opinion of this reader, has surreptitiously imposed a de-facto China like 1 child policy on the people of Ireland. Why 240 seconds? The heightened level of narcissism in the population of course! This the result of an omnipresent social media with it’s insidious effects of reducing the attention span of the average citizen to about 240 seconds. 240 seconds is necessary even for such important topics like Irish government covertly implemented 1 child policies.

        Why and how did Mrs Edna and his cohorts achieve this goal? Answer; through covert Irish Central bank policy serving the interests of chronically corrupt banks. The Irish state owes a national debt of approximately 210 billion Euros. The interest on these borrowings has to be paid never mind the capital portion. A substantial portion of these borrowings were incurred to inject capital into hopelessly insolvent banks in Ireland. Why? to prevent their collapse. Daah! The official spiel of course at the time was to save jobs and business etc. in Ireland. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was in fact to prevent the knock on effect of the collapse of the major European banks.

        Mrs Edna now needs to fleece as much money as possible out of every taxpayer to keep up the capacity of the Irish state to borrow even more money even though we are still taking in less in taxes than we are spending. Mrs Edna’s first biggest problem is that he knows as he increases income taxes peoples incomes will fall causing this portion of the tax take to reduce. In order to protect his line of income therefore he needs to levy taxes on assets irrespective of the capacity of the citizen to pay which is the the real reason you are paying water and property taxes. The Irish gubuernment can write to your employer or labour office and stop this tax money at source so it’s basically FUCK you and your kids. This is straight forward asset stripping but I digress.

        Mrs Edna knows that the building blocks of society is the family unit. Mrs Edna also knows that the cost of child care in rape Republic is prohibitive. He knows that as the Irish family unit grows from 1 child to 2 children one parent will usually stay at home to mind the kids. This is Mrs Edna bugbear. This for Mr Edna is a disaster because he loses the tax revenue on that person’s salary. Even worse from his perspective he has the double whammy of also subsequently losing the tax revenue on the child care worker whose services will no longer be required. So the biggest threat to Mrs Edna right now is the productive capacity of the wombs of Mná na hÉireann.

        So how does he deal with the biggest threat to the Irish state; the fertility of Irish women? Ans? He rings the central bank and he says this is what we will do lads. For a young couple starting out we will keep the deposit required for the first mortgage at 10%. So far so good. However we will make it impossible for the new 1 child family to consider expanding their family more than one child by requiring that on the purchase of a second house the citizen provides a killer 20% deposit. This house of course would be vitally necessary for a growing family as the chances are the first dwelling purchased was a 1 bed flat or apartment which would not now be suitable.

        We know lads that between the cost of child care for the first child and this new requirement of a 20% deposit for the second mortgage it will be impossible to achieve the 20% deposit and most couples will simply give up and keep their family size at 1 child. The drop off in the native Irish birth rate can be compensated for by keeping the door fully open to all the dirt cheap eastern European labour. Problem solved. Joe average Irish citizen will be forced to decide to keep his family size at one child because central bank policy will dictate this out come. Now that wasn’t hard was it?

        I hope you enjoy it Alfie.

        Best regards,

        Michael.

        • AlfieMoone

          This is very concise, effective writing, Michael. I did indeed enjoy it but my blood pressure rose as I read and by the end i was fuming:

          “The drop off in the native Irish birth rate can be compensated for by keeping the door fully open to all the dirt cheap eastern European labour. Problem solved. Joe average Irish citizen will be forced to decide to keep his family size at one child because central bank policy will dictate this out come. Now that wasn’t hard was it?”

          One of my uncles had 11 kids (or was it a dozen…*thinking*…) & I remember us all in bunk bed dorms in a Corporation house in Ballyfermot as a child when I visited to dance….

          This is why Brexit is essential. The same nonsense here. Make family life impossible then solve the demographics by importing labour from East Europe or more egregiously and racistly import it from Africa and the Middle East as ‘humanitarian imperialism’ so the Special Snowflake idiot can hold up ‘Refugees Welcome’ placards without facing the facts that it’s their governments overt or cover wars that cause the refugees. Or steal medical personnel from the Phillipines, not racist at all to plunder such resources from countries that desperately need to build medical infrastructure.

          First Brexit
          then Grexit
          then IRExit

          I am an Taosieach of the Global Irish Diaspora that is the 5th Province and I hereby declare: “Make it so!”

          • michaelcoughlan

            “This is very concise, effective writing, Michael. I did indeed enjoy it but my blood pressure rose as I read and by the end i was fuming:”

            Thanks Alfie. But DON”T get a heart attack I am only trying to enlighten people and hopefully subsequently motivate them.

            Michael.

            PS; I have some really really good stuff which I may share in time.

            warm regards,

            Michael.

  14. “… Thus, the first step for Russia is secession from the IMF and others similar institutions designed to keep the entire world in bondage. The dollar noose must be cut.”

    http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/dollar-disaster-looms-as-china-and-russias-currencies-break-away/

    • Plus

      … We have absolutely no need in the central bank in its current form, but we do need a financial regular. Under any regime, it was the Treasury that performed this function. Let it remain the same now regardless of the official name. It may continue to be called the Central Bank. If the essence is changed, there is no need in changing plaques.”

  15. Home Counties Girl

    Towards a new economic system for the 21st century.
    The new economic system should be based on localised forms of industry, finance and participatory democracy.

    In his Prison Notebooks, the Italian revolutionary Antonio Gramsci wrote: “The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.”…..

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/08/economic-system-21st-century-160819134542550.html

    • I agree basically with your sympathies re the way the economy should be structured but the article describes the symptoms of our economic demise and like modern medicine that also treats symptoms, is not getting to the root of the problem.

      In this case to ignore the central banking system of fiat money production is to allow the collapse of our economies to continue. Describing capitalism as a modern invention, fails to grasp the fundamental way that growth and prosperity is achieved from the lowliest to the wealthy.

      Until re revert to production for our needs. The production of surplus to our needs being saved. (creation of wealth). The habouring of the surplus for future needs and trading for other goods produced by others leads to abundance. The creation of a medium of exchange that also acted as a store of wealth is the only money system needed. Our current banking system is not a store of wealth as it is designed to extract the profits of our labour through induced inflation. Inflation is a stealth tax that reduces the wealth of all and is morally corrupting. Inflation punishes the frugal and productive while rewarding the creditor and the spendthrift. That is not capitalism as such but a form of socialism that ultimately destroys society.

      We have a lot of well meaning people proposing radical solutions that will not succeed as the basic cause of the economic malaise is not understood. This is the deliberate policy of the elites as it denies the population the information and the knowledge that would allow them to exercise their desire for freedom and prosperity. The result is unrest clamped down on by authority in the process leading to authoritarian one world government.

      The current money system foisted upon the world by the elites is giving serfdom rather than freedom. Not one person in a million can see this reality. Remarkable. The blind are leading the blind.

  16. hasbeen

    “a left leaning outfit called the Nevin Institute”. This is the first time I have seen you state the political affiliation of a source mentioned on one of your articles. Does this mean we will be told the affiliations of all the sources you quote in future articles? Or maybe this just applies to “left leaning” sources. Will the caveat “they will always say wages are not competitive , taxes are too high and regulation is stifling business” be added to all quotes from right leaning sources

  17. Truthist

    Here ‘Girl,
    .

    Feel free to peruse from the Google.com results for the search terms :
    .

    gramsci AND henry makow
    .

    https://www.google.co.th/?gws_rd=cr&ei=hcu5V-uJJYHQvgTXmJSICA#q=gramsci+AND+henry+makow

    I accompanied Gramsci with Henry Makow because it would be very worthy to know what Makow thinks of Gramsci.

    Clearly, he thinks very low of Gramsci ;
    And, with sound justification.
    .

    e.g.
    .

    http://www.henrymakow.com/the_illuminati_and_communism.html
    .
    .

    Excerpt ;
    .

    Thanks to the research of people like Anthony Sutton (“Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution”) we now know that the international bankers — the Illuminati — financed Communism.

    They did so to create a dialectic, a dynamic of opposing forces they could manipulate to advance their own control over the world.

    But there’s a still unanswered question. What is their end game? Are they Communists? To answer this, let’s look at who the Communists are.

    THE MARXIST-LENINISTS

    Communists have many faces — and facades. The Marxist-Leninists are just one kind, and they were bitterly divided between Stalinists and Trotskyites.

    In America, the Stalinists were represented by leaders such as William Z. Foster, author of “Toward Soviet America.” In the ’30s and ’40s, he preached social revolution (e.g., women’s liberation, no-fault divorce, abortion), but said this would come after an armed revolution by the working class.

    The Trotskyites were revolutionaries too, but they hated Stalin. They thought he had betrayed the revolution by working to secure the Soviet Union. They wanted a “permanent revolution” free from any national compromises. (Think of the difference between Castro and Che Guevara.)

    FABIAN SOCIALISTS

    In addition to the Marxist-Leninists, there are the Fabian Socialists. Contrary to popular view, they are not just reformers content with a welfare state.

    George Bernard Shaw, co-founder of the Fabian Society, wrote that the purpose of the welfare state was to bankrupt society, leading to economic collapse. This in turn would lead to Communism. These days it looks as if Shaw knew what he was talking about.

    Today, most “Stalinists” or “Trotskyites” have morphed and adopted new labels.

    It’s estimated that 20 percent of Congress are “progressives,” a code word for neo-Stalinists. They dominate the Democratic part. They occupy the White House.

    The Trotskyites on the other hand are now “neoconservatives,” and their chosen vehicle is the Republican party.

    As for “liberals” (Democrats) and “moderates” (Republicans), they are Fabian socialists. Most of them may not be as cynical as Shaw, but what does it matter? They’re on board.
    .
    .
    .
    “YES, WE HAVE DE-FACTO COMMUNISM.” ;
    And, people like me are suffering grievously under it.
    And, yes too, Communism’s dialectical paired protagonist “Financialism” — we never had “Capitalism” because the Money-Lenders & their abettors, the Civil Serpents / Nomenklatura, & the Intelligentsia, & the Politicians & …, want “Financialism” & “Communism” ONLY, sucks too for lowly people like me.
    .
    .

    • I agree with you in essence.
      The people lack education in essential economics.
      Nothing is taught in school, not even how to balance a cheque book.
      Economists are mis-educated deliberately.
      As I state above, it is the blind leading the blind. Those promoting real solutions are maligned, ridiculed and named neo… (take your pick from several choices, supply your own.

      We all know that we have to live within our means to succeed, yet we are lumbered with a money system that instantaneously puts us all in debt. We are all creditors to the banking system; all in thrall to the elites who developed the process; all, or nearly all, ignorant of the causes of our declining standard of living and the loss of our individual freedoms.

      Capitalism is feared by the elites as it is the antithisis of their system of debt and fiscal serfdom. As such it has to be maligned at every opportunity and blamed for all the problems we have. It must not be allowed to flourish as it is the route of a free people.

      • Truthist

        They who hate us have brainwashed us to think ;

        “Good is Bad.
        And, Bad is Good.”
        .
        .
        Thus ;
        .
        .
        “Capitalism is Bad.
        And, Financialism is Good.”
        .
        since then, recent generations do not know about actual Capitalism.
        .
        Also

        “Capitalism is Bad.
        Communism is Good.”
        .
        Ditto the above
        vis.
        Since then, recent generations do not know about actual Capitalism.
        .
        .

        Finally, the End-Game when Financialism AND Communism cluster-f..ks the whole shebang ;

        “So-called Capitalism [ But, really "Financialism" as known by those who pondered upon matters ] is Bad.
        Communism is Good.”
        .
        .
        The above is what the Hegelian Dialectic of
        X”so-called Capitalism [ But, really is Financialism AND is not Capitalism ]”
        versus
        Y”Communism”
        was strategically planned to result in ;
        vis.
        “COMMUNISM”
        .
        .
        “Oh vey, u will love Communism.
        Just ask the Poles.”
        8-)

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