July 25, 2016

What would happen if the North were asked to pay for itself tomorrow?

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 88 comments ·
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Are you a real Trekkie? If so, you’ll know the answer to the following question: which was the only episode of Star Trek ever banned in Ireland and Britain – and why?

 

Star Trek is many things, but is it really so incendiary as to be worthy of censorship?

 

The twelfth episode in the third series of Star Trek: The Next Generation was banned in this part of the world and never shown on terrestrial television in Britain or Ireland. That’s because in that episode Commander Data, musing on terrorism in the year 2364, noted that Ireland had been reunited in 2024.

 

This episode was due to be aired here and in Britain in 1990 but was pulled by the censors in both jurisdictions.

 

The question is whether Commander Data’s time horizon is right? And if it is even out by a decade or two, could the Irish economy support the North?

 

I say “support” because the Northern economy is incapable of supporting itself. If Northern Ireland were asked to pay for itself tomorrow, its budget deficit would be close to 20 per cent of GDP simply to keep the lights on. It has become a type of concubine economy, living off the largesse of Westminster and the home counties.

 

The easiest way to assess the impact of the Union on the Northern economy is to compare the economies of the North and the South. In fact, the border gives us a lovely economic experiment. Take two systems in one country and examine the results; a bit like West Germany versus East Germany or, God forbid, North Korea versus South Korea.

 

A cursory glance at the performance of the Northern Irish economy since 1922 suggests that the Union has been an economic disaster for all the people of Northern Ireland, Protestant and Catholic, Unionist and Nationalist. They’ve all been impoverished by the Union and this shows no sign of letting up.

 

If we go back to 1920, 80 per cent of the industrial output of the entire island of Ireland came from the three counties around Belfast. It was an industrial region with northern entrepreneurs and inventors at the forefront of industrial innovation.

 

By 1911, Belfast was the biggest city in Ireland, with a population of close to 400,000. In the 50 years up to the creation of Northern Ireland, Belfast was the fastest growing city in all of these islands. And in 1920 it was by far the richest part of the island.

 

In contrast, the rest of the Irish economy was agricultural and backward and the only manufacturing we had could be termed a ‘beer and biscuits economy’, dominated by the likes of Guinness and Jacobs.

 

Fast forward to now and we see the shocking collapse of the once-dynamic Northern economy versus that of the Republic. Having been a fraction of the North’s at independence, the Republic’s industrial output is now ten times greater than that of Northern Ireland. Exports from the Republic are €89 billion while from the North, exports are a paltry €6 billion. This obviously reflects multinationals, but it also underscores just how far ahead is the Republic’s industrial base.

 

Producing 15 times more exports underscores a vast difference in terms of the globalisation of business.

 

The total size of the Republic’s economy is now four times that of the North, even though the labour force is not even two-and-a-half times bigger.

 

In terms of income per head, the Republic is now almost twice as rich per person as the North. The average income per head in the Republic is €39,873, while it languishes at €23,700 up north.

 

While we will have to come up with new figures to get a true picture of national income, the end figure is likely to tell a similar story.

 

The differing fortunes of North and South can be easily seen in the fact that, having been smaller than Belfast at the time of partition, the population of the greater Dublin area is now almost three times bigger than the greater Belfast metropolitan region.

 

Obviously there are significant differences in terms of prices, access to public services and housing between the two parts of the island. But the fact remains that the Union has been an economic calamity for everyone in the North. Think about that figure of the North having to borrow 20 per cent of GDP every year just to maintain today’s living standards. If the North were asked to pay for itself tomorrow, living standards would plummet. In contrast, the Republic should have a balanced budget by 2018.

 

The comparison between both jurisdictions is made more significant by the fact that economically the North was, at one stage, so far ahead of the South. So where does that leave us?

 

Well, in the distant past, there was good reason to believe that the Union preserved living standards in the North, but this is a myth and has not been the case since 1990 – the year Star Trek was banned. Indeed, the end of the Troubles, which should have marked the resurgence of the relative performance of the North, has actually delivered the opposite.

 

Relative to the South, the Northern economy has fallen backwards since the guns were silenced. If there was an economic peace dividend, it went south.

 

All the while, the demographic forces are on the side of nationalism.

 

As I write, I am looking at demographics in Northern Ireland from the 2011 census.

 

The most interesting statistic shows the proportion of Catholics and Protestants in various age groups. Of the elderly, (those over 90) in the North, 64 per cent are Protestant and 25 per cent are Catholic. A total of 9 per cent had no declared religion.

 

But when you look at children born since 2008, the picture changes dramatically. This corresponding figure is 31 per cent Protestant and 44 per cent Catholic.

 

In one (admittedly very long) lifetime, the Catholic population in the youngest cohort has nearly doubled, while the Protestant cohort has more than halved.

 

The numbers don’t lie. The question is whether Ireland wants the North.

 

Conor Cruse O’Brien noted that the Unionists’ last battle will not be with Irish nationalists but will be with English nationalists.

 

Could it also be that the Northern nationalists’ last battle will not be with the British, but with Southern public opinion?

 

Wouldn’t it be strange if Commander Data was partially right after all? Then again, that was science fiction, wasn’t it?


  1. Subscribe.

    Best episode of ‘Star Trek: The Next Generation’ is ‘The Inner Light’.

  2. Deco

    I disagree on one central point.

    NI has not been improvrished by union with Britain. If anything it has been continually kept from falling into the abyss.

    NI has been impovrished by sectarian conflict which drive intelligent people out, and that freezes in place a psychology that is plain stupid.

    There is more than merely a border seperating the 6 from the 26. There is a completely different mentality. Pragmatism is always secondary to pomposity.

    Apart from the ethnic divide (with religion painted on top to pretend that there is moral justification), NI is racked with an extremely divisive and virulent set of concepts concerning class.

    In fact class obsession/dysfunctionality has survived in NI, where it has mellowed in Britain and Ireland. But in this regard, as in so many others, the most direct and obvious route is never chosen.

    Again like the tribal divide, the class obsession part is never openly discussed in a manner that might offend sensibilities of those that continue to live in such ridiculous constructs.

    Lastly there is a responsibility deficit. It seems in NI that both sides are looking for a big brother to live off. They need to grow up.

    The problem with Nothern Ireland is…..entirely due to what is going on inside Northern Ireland. Grow up and stop looking for a sugar daddy, Sammy/Cormac.

  3. Original-Ed

    By god they had it good for a long timer and the arrogance was something else.
    In the seventies I remember trying to develop a product and couldn’t get supplies from a English company because they has a plant in Derry and those boys up there weren’t going to let us get off our knees.
    Another, instance where components purchased from a English company but supplied form an NI plant were deliberately contaminated so as to fail in short time.
    Oh! for globalization and the liberation it has given us – none of these companies exist today and good riddance.

  4. Deco

    The real power in the current Dail, lies with the liar who pretended to object to Ahernism, after Ahernism bankrupted Ireland – but who only found out that objected, after the people turned aggressively against Ahernism.

    In other words current FF don, Micheal Martin. The man who never knew the devleoper’s money was resting in the wife’s account.

    Therein lies a massive potential for policy making disaster. And the people did NOT vote for this. 80% of the voters did not vote for the brown envelope clique to be in charge of the country. But, by a rather frightening set of circumstances, we are back again policy making being dependent on a collection of gangsters who bankrupted Ireland.

    Currently, Martin’s inner idiot is expressing itself in moves that are seemingly pro-Brussels, and opposed to Westminster.

    It is like as if FF needs to pursue a path to damage Ireland’s relationship with our main trading partner, because FF have run out of ways of damaging Ireland.

    After the Brexit referendum, Kenny stated that he did not see any significance in NI wanting to keep a sugar daddy in Brussels. Basically, as one legal construct NI was bound by the overall UK result. Fine. This is effectively,Kenny saying that he sees this in terms of law and democratic practice.

    However, M.Martin seen it differently. Firstly he connected with the side that favoured the outcome that he wanted, not the outcome that was picked. This is the same arrogance that showed up in the aftermath of the FF meltdown – when Martin thanks those that remained loyal to the two political parties (FF, GP) that leveraged the society to private sector debts.

    Next he pronounced that the Irish government should support the SNP leader in Edinburgh (who incidentally is engaging in a splurge of Ahernism herself), and push for Scotland to be allowed to follow a route to Brussels. Even when this is in contravention to the previous vote on Scottish independence. This is purely idiotic. It risks offending many Scots, and a majority of English.

    Now, M. Martin does not actually hold any position. In fact he is elected to nothing. And there is good reason for that. He is literally a danger to society, should he ever be allowed to hold ministerial office ever again. And it seems that the focus groups are indicating that he should not try this.

    But he does not have to try this to influence what is said at government level. So effectively, he can create massive diplomatic problems, by means of the leverage that he holds over Enda Kenny.

    Martin does not care for the law, or democracy. His behaviour with respect to FF’s scandals is evidence of the former. His refusal to see anything but encouragement from a dismissive electorate is evidence of the latter.

    Only an FG backbencher’s rebellion can put an end to FG being FF’s puppet. But FG do not have a suitable leader in waiting.

    This means more policy making failures await.

    • Deco

      Oh yes, and I should mention, the FF leadership is pushing this issue of border polls, and NI remaining in the same racket that is destroying Greece, and is bankrupting Ireland.

      It is a form of Green jersey wearing nonsense, with disregard to the consequences. Sound familiar ? Well, it is proof that FF have learned nothing from the punishment given by voters.

      • Original-Ed

        With Micheal(140 report)Martin ahead in the poles,it’s obvious that the Irish electorate is seriously flawed.
        When he was minister for health, he commissioned 140 reports and did nothing – how can anybody take him seriously.

        • Deco

          I actually don’t blame the electorate. The media are supporting him. It is the “lesser of two evils” theory. The media is favouring FF, on the basis that it will weaken SF. In particular in the aftermath of the LP meltdown.

          A much more honest approach would be to state that the three of these outfits are lying self-serving opportunists. But that is not happening.

        • mcsean2163

          smoking ban?

  5. Deco

    In the midst of all of this, is a fearful, entrenched, often myopic Protestant (mostly Presbyterian) working class section, that is always closer to Scotland than either England or ther neighbours in Ireland.

    Weakened from within by a belief in the value of cheap food, and expensive motors, they are facing a definite crisis. The danger is that political big mouthing in Kildare Street, by politicians seeking to divert attention from their complicity in over-larding (no spelling mistake) the institional state, might be driven to do something negative and nasty.

    The orange family are facing serious problems that are mostly of their own making, and are not facing down their own responsibility.

    The northern nationalists continue to entertain fantasies like SF economics, and the idea that Sean Quinn could do no wrong.

    The populace in the RoI are moving towards political fragmentation, and demanding more accountablity and transparency from the institutional state. And also demanding a higher performance, and less corruption. This is actually beneficial to the society. It means more democracy, better state performance, and less debt, if it takes off. This is the underlying trend, if you analyze all the elections in the past 5 years.

    For large political parties, who are often run by incentives like state jobs, patronage and corruption, this is an oncoming train.

    Which demands a response of changing the agenda, to suit the large political parties.

    Imagine that you are in a leadership position in a political party that has itself embedded into the instituional state, and it’s largesse. That has a mountain of corruption swept under the rug, and packed into the attic for nobody to see. Well, that means you must find something that forces the agenda away from any groundswell that might spill the beans.

    Enter “green jersey” wearing as a project to get away from the mess that is the institutional state borrowing endlessly, and functioning as a entry for the imperial power centre in Brussels.

    Now, here we have two opposing forces who have not yet met each other.

    A class of people in Northern Ireland who are uncertain about themselves, and who are not fixing their inner problems, but instread focussing on outward projection of strength and force.

    And political parties who will face gradual dishevelling unless they can fight off independents/smaller parties, and who need to create an environment that forces people back to trust corrupt and unaccountable political party machines.

    Ironically, they are both opposed by the electorate of the middle section of the island including electoral constituencies in Dublin, the Midlands and Galway – which are leading the drift away from political party loyalty. [ as evidenced by the votes of Flanagan and Childers in the most recent MEP election]. Which also happens to be the section of the population that will be ultimately footing the bill. And for which arguments about religion are absurd.

    I think we need to devise a way to avoid an oncoming disaster for both NI and the RoI.

    A disaster for the certain political parties is a preferable alternative. The impetus for this can only come from the electorate. But it can be undermined by corrupt media organs.

    Likewise a rude awakening for the a certain section of the population in NI, with more emphasis on personal responsibilty, and less of pride, would improve matters. This can only come from the Tory party in the UK. It cannot come from the incompetent copy cats of Ahernism, in Holyrood.

    In addition, NI needs to think in terms of autonomy and responsibility. And in particular the unionist section of the population needs to face down it’s own underperformance, and tendency to be be looking behind them when they should be trying to drive forward.

  6. Daithi7

    I think as time had moved on, with improving education and demographics in the Republic, there is a realisation that we do not want to unite with a dependent, backward economy and people like Northern Ireland.

    I believe, and I may be wrong, but the majority of the electorate in the Republic are ‘ unionists ‘ now I.e. W dont want Ni back cos we can’t /don’t want to pay for it.

    • CitizenWhy

      That was certainly my impression in visiting Ireland. I sent all my time with “natives,” not visitors and people expressed fear that NI would be great burden on Ireland’s shaky economy. Who would pay for those on welfare in NI. And how would Ireland support the universities and schools and health care in NI? A lot of people couldn’t see it.

      It there is a reuniting it might start with the Catholic arras (which voted to stay in the EU) reuniting with Ireland and the Protestant areas (which voted to leave the EU) staying in the UK.

  7. yadayada

    “If the north were asked to pay for itself tomorrow ” it would be sorted out very quickly indeed. We’d immediately find out who wants to live there. The answer is of course the Protestants.

    Bring it on, the sooner the better.

  8. AlfieMoone

    Having returned from an almost mystically beautiful weekend in Cork City, I’ve been trying to process the whole trip: following in the footsteps of Michael Collins, reflecting on 1916, whilst juggling with Brexit debates as I traipsed the banks of the River Lee.

    Beneath the enjoyment of the summer sunshine I sensed real anxiety when chatting to the denizens of ‘rebel Cork’. They know something’s not right but they haven’t quite put their finger on it. Yet…..

    The English are NOT going to put up with all this nonsense from the Sturgeon, Kenny & Martin as they parade around Brussels pretending anyone gives a toss what they think. A while ago there was a snarky label for ScotNats independence, that’s they’d join The Axis Of Insolvency as Salmond sought to claim they’d become Nordic bastions of law, order, democracy & sound finance rather than an economic basket case. The idea that the North Britons of E’bro will go with Indo capers is just ridiculous but still the Celtic Whinge Fringe Neverendum blathers on. They have become what I like to call ‘The Axis Of Eejitry’.

    I want a referendum where The English and Welsh now get to choose if they want to allow Scotland and Northern Ireland to Remain in the new Core UK as it sets the engines for Warp Factor speed for a new British Post-Colonial Commonwealth. Do we really want to be dragging the Scots and the Norn Iron lot along like a sack of blighted potatoes with their Victim Script intact? Their absurd political and media class riding their Audi Quatros around on the dole of the English Pound, spewing ancient enmities to disguise failure and incompetence? Gaming the East Lothian Question? I’d guess most English were both pleased and surprised the Welsh decided to join us in a new Core UK, whether or not that was expedient pragmatism or genuine co-feeling is irrelevant. If Wales changes it’s mind at a later stage and wants to join The Axix of Eejitry that’s fine. But current support for Welsh Independence hovers around 3%. Or is it 13%? Whatever. They fly Welsh flags from pubs round here in Worcestershire, they claim this land as theirs because: Owyn Glyndowr. We choose to see the humour in it all….knowing we can blow up the Severn Bridges if they cut off the Elan Valley reservoir supplying water to Birmingham. What’s more likely is HS4 from Brum to Aberystwyth for a new city to mirror Dublin across the Celtic Sea….Shame Paddy wasted all the billions on bailing banks that could’ve gone to building sea tunnels to link these Isles Of Wonder but Paddy was also lost in a Victim Script amnesia trance of history that put the Group Libel of ‘The English’ above Intersectional analysis of Class Conflict during 800 years of M.O.P.E.

    Yonder Saxon Foe? My arse! Need to re-write that to “Herein lies our Norman Foe” because they are amongst ye, always were since the run-up to 1066. The same families still run both islands, they’re called the Aristocracy and they have banks, not tanks to keep the Culchies and the Brummies trampled down. Ain’t gonna work no more cuz the Shire Irish Mad Paddies from Brum voted FcUKEU. And there is nowt any whingebag in Brussels, Belfast, Dublin or Glasgow can do about it.

    Either grow up, drop the Victim Script, drop the totalising/concretising Group Libels about ‘The English’ via faux-history and man up! Remember why the Union happened to Scotland because: Darian Adventure, so fess up: the bitterness felt by the Scots is because they FAILED as a colonial project alone and now pose as victims of English Imperialism on the island of Britain when they were crucial partners in the original British Empire project, as were The Irish Merchant and Banking classes, pre-partition. Take your Braveheart woad & your Bowler Hat bonfires and stick them..OR….

    Take Back Control

    “We Want Our Country Back!” What’s stopping ye? Your bank accounts. Same as the Republic of Ireland. So much for Sovereignty: sold to Brussels for a song.

    I’m now calling for the EU to take control of post-Brexit Scotland and Northern Ireland as the democratic plebiscite clearly shows they want to Remain. So get on with it. Have a referendum in both Scotland and Northern Ireland with 2 simple options once Article 50 is served (assuming the EU lasts that long…)

    1] Vote to Leave the UK after the UK leaves the EU and then seek to rejoin the EU

    2] Vote to Remain in the UK and Leave the EU

    3] There is no Option 3 other than in the minds of the Braveheart/Bonfire/Bowler-hatted crackpots who think they can thwart the will of the English majority and Carry On Sectarianing like some demented Ealing comedy from an alternative planet that Captain Kirk would scratch his head at if he was beamed down by ‘Scotty’. 180!

    I’ve been winding up folk on my Twitter feed calling for both Scotland and Norn Iron to be made wards of court of the EU who can send in their new EUArmy troops to keep order in the new ‘independent Troika statelets’ whilst Schaubel & Juncker give them the aul Euro-No Lube treatment. But I call them EU Peace Protectorates…the EU has all these pretensions to sorting out the world with their EUtopianism, well, alongside sorting out Syria by repopulating Germany with new GastArbeiters, they can open a Western Diplomatic Front.

    It’s time to move on. Brexit means Brexit. Nobody here in the Shires of Mercia, the Heart of Engerland, gives a toss whether or not the Scots and Norn Ironish stay or leave either/both the UK/EU because: We value & respect their right to self-determination even as they attempt to thwart ours. Well, that ain’t gonna fcUKin happen:

    “Give Ireland Back To The Irish” Paul McCartney

    “England For The English” Morrissey

    So, put up or shut up. Either stop trying to thwart Brexit (as if!) and get on with detoxing from this utterly banal Victim Script of Historicism. And that applies to the whole 1916 theme park: How many of you are prepared to pay for the re-unifiication of Ulster once the English fuck off? Here’s a plan for ye all: Get your ‘gallant EUro Allies in Europe’ to pay the bills once the £ crashes and England becomes a 3rd world hell-hole once it leaves the EU…LOL!

    Here’s Doreen, our Queen who counts the Munster Mercians of the Shire Irish Diaspora amongst her loyal subjects:

    ‘Doreen Tipton – The country is in crisis. I had to act.’

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hNzbDP9ll4

    Alfie Moone 007

    Prime Minister of Sovereign Mercia within Engerland & Core UK

    &

    Cultural An Taoiseach to the Fifth Province Shire Irish Dispora.

    • AlfieMoone

      *West Lothian*

      “When I was a child I grew up by the River Lee
      There was something in the water, now that something’s in me
      Oh I can’t go back, but the reeds are growing out of my fingertips
      I can’t go back to the river

      But it’s in my roots, in my veins
      It’s in my blood and I stain every heart that I use to heal the pain
      Oh, It’s in my roots, in my veins
      It’s in my blood and I stain every heart that I use to heal the pain
      So I blame it on the River Lee, the River Lee, the River Lee”

      Adele ‘River Lea’ lyric upcycled for:

      ‘An Irish Childhood In Cork-River Lee Moxie Remix’

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5k5f3eG-BA

  9. CitizenWhy

    The only other place besides the United States where anti-science “Christian” fundamentalism has a hold is NI. Not good. What kind of citizens would these fundamentalist make?

    • Daithi7

      Exactly, they’d be lousy citizens imho. They’d contaminate the electorate, polarise politics, retard modernisation (e.g. try getting gay marriage ref by that lot!!), all the while insisting on sucking the hind tit off the already over extended social welfare system which they have become wholly dependent on.

      Northern Ireland would firstly need to start pulling it’s own weight economically, and since this looks very unlikely in the next 30+years I just can’t see the already over indebted citizens of the Republic of Ireland effectively voting for a poorer future. I may be wrong of course, but I’d doubt it on this one !!

      • Deco

        Well, another option would be to reform the institutional state in D2 to make it more efficient, and thereby enable the provision of welfare for NI.

        That is completely impossible, due to the power of the opposition that it would arouse.

        The insitutional state in the RoI already provides for so much waste and clientelism, that it is simply impossible to achieve.

  10. yadayada

    So the republic didn’t need that bail out?

    If anyone can prove to me that the average citizen of ni is half as well off as the average southerner, I will very happily eat my hat.
    Just as obviously, the north throughout the first seventy years was wealthier than the republic, so to say it’s been worse from the start is not true.

  11. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    I think when you used the word Union you meant to use the word partition. Belfast was flying it in 1920 and the Union was 119 years old at that stage.

    A northern Unionist might be forgiven for thinking if the South rejoined the UK the glory days might return but he would be mistaken. It’s not just the north that has seen its industrial heartland devastated (as the UK switched to services and banking) it’s basically anywhere outside the greater London area and this was most notably felt in the north.

    Eire is wealthier is it? Ask the record breaking numbers of natives leaving the place to get good salaries everywhere else or all the migrant labour here in min wage zero Hr contract jobs if they agree with your hypothesis.

    respectfully,

    Michael.

    • Deco

      “Structural economic adjustment” affected the heavy industry sector in every country.

      NI never adjusted. Belgium adjusted. The Spanish Basque country adjusted. The Ruhr adjusted.

      But NI remained in a quagmire with gangs and politicians who held others responsible, and who went around with the hand out to see who they could live off.

      Compare this to Singapore which wnet on a trajectory that is the opposite of NI. It had no resources. It had low wages. It had a suspicious neighbour. And it had initiative, and ingenuity. Which there the qualities that NI gradually discarded.

      Where is the Lee Kwan of NI ?

      Come to think of it, Lee Kwan was in favour of efficient state administration and effective/clear public sector.

      Where is the Lee Kwan of the RoI ?

    • Deco

      The RoI is not wealthier. It is an illusion. Like 26% bumper harvest increases in Romania in the 1970s. Most people in the RoI are struggling.

      Taxation, and the maintenance of unsustainable asset bubble reflation nonsense like NAMA, and AIB means that most people have no money left.

      And now we have politicians thinking that they can pay for NI.

      Where do these idiots think the money is coing to come from ?

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      I looked at the numbers and it turns out that the emigration out of Northern Ireland is actually way bigger than from Eire: 35,300 emigrated out of Ireland (this has fallen by 13pc from 40,700, and then by 20pc from the year before), for the population of 4,595,000 (Ireland should have a population of around 15,000,000 to fully reach her potential – it had 8,000,000 before the famine – of course not with that infrastructure and property bubble).

      In comparison, 25,000 emigrated from Northern Ireland for the population of only 1,811,000. It looks like Northern Ireland is the UK’s emigration hub (at the same time, the immigration there is the lowest in the UK, which however does not make it prosperous).

      Also, a lot of emigration out of the Republic of Ireland were Eastern Europeans leaving Ireland in the crisis – the population of Poles for example has decreased by 2/3 compared to its peak. But most of it were the young Irish lassies, unfortunately:

      http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/09/05/%E2%80%98mancession%E2%80%99-the-enduring-legacy-of-the-downturn

      which – this (lots of frustrated single males + drugs culture) and a ban on buying guns – is responsible for us having twice as big chance of being shot here than in Northern Ireland (and six times than in England and Wales).

      On another note, I do not understand why no one here shares my concern that the reunification of Ireland might result in a civil war due to foreign powers fueling secesionist moods (amongst the loyalists) and fomenting social divisions in the North – this was what had happened in the Ukraine (from both Russia and the US, and Germany).

      All in all, I think that if handled properly, the reunification of the island of Ireland might improve Ireland’s geopolitical potential, especially if Ireland confederated with Scotland. That would require a radical overhaul of all state’s institutions, pricking a few bubbles, return to Ireland’s national currency and above all, radical enhacement of the Irish army and intelligence services.

      But if not handled properly, it may result in a civil war, especially if we consider that if the people of Northern Ireland complaign they are being neglected by the mainland UK, what would they say if their 10bn pounds of subsidy is taken away.

      Like with Brexit, it is a mistake to think that secession alone would solve the problem – it what Britain does after Brexit counts.

      Similarly with Northern Ireland. By the way, Sinn Fein’s governing record in Northern Ireland is not a story of success, so I am not sure if that argument will not be used in the reunification referendum.

      I wonder by the way if all the Poles living here will be given vote at the reunification referendum, like they were given in Scotland (that of course should relate to all the Irish living abroad – I mean it’s a joke that the Irish people accepted that in first place that they have no vote – monthly blockade of all Irish embassies abroad and of our talkative (usually in a shallow way) President’s residence should solve the problem).

      I wonder how people here on this blog would vote. i assume David yes, Adam yes, Alfie resolute no. President Higgins yes. An Garda Síochána and judges no, solicitors yes ;-)

      I also hope that the government is preparing for that option, not just waiting for Germany to invade after the reunification, like Sin Failed has done during WWII.

      • AlfieMoone

        ‘I think that if handled properly, the reunification of the island of Ireland might improve Ireland’s geopolitical potential, especially if Ireland confederated with Scotland.’

        This has already happened psychologically as a result of the Brexit vote. I call this new entity either ‘The Confederacy Of Dunces’ or ‘The Axix of Eejitry’ depending on whether it’s Enda, Nicola, Martin, Gerry or Alex doing the Celtic Whinge Fringe whining on the telly.

        ‘if not handled properly, it may result in a civil war, especially if we consider that if the people of Northern Ireland complaign they are being neglected by the mainland UK, what would they say if their 10bn pounds of subsidy is taken away.’

        This won’t happen as most of the likely trouble-makers are too lazy and stupid to organise any effective military response. They are likely to just trash their own nests in a series of evocative and pointless riots before asking The English for more dole money. The Norn Iron ‘Unionist’ mentality has collapsed into it’s own internal contradictions. It is mostly a Scots-Irish Borderer clan-Pride mentality, which is utterly alien to The English Mind. Now that the 1st British Empire of England, Wales, NI and Scotland has crashed and burned amidst the smoking funeral pyre of the Brexit vote, the N.I Unionist position is in tatters. If they come to The English and The Welsh with that nonsense, they’ll soon be told where to go: Brussels!

        Let the new ‘gallant EUro allies’ provide the 10billion seeing as they will be annexing it into their EUtopian EUropa Empire.

        ‘I wonder how people here on this blog would vote. i assume David yes, Adam yes, Alfie resolute no. President Higgins yes. An Garda Síochána and judges no, solicitors yes ;-)’

        It’s none of my business and I couldn’t care less either way as:

        Geography Is NOT Destiny!

        There are several possible routes & destinations on the post-Brexit road-map, all of which will be perfectly servicable if/when the cancer of sectarianism is irradiated throughout the 26 counties. Whether it’s a singular island of Ireland state or a bifurcated island of 2 mutually respectful traditions is secondary to the issue of turbo-charging economic development once The English let rip with their ‘Singapore-On-Thames’ plans….

        I met Michael Collins at a crossroads in Cork at midnight last Saturday. We went for a few scoops at the Oliver Plunkett pub. He was a bit miffed but I told him there were loads of pubs honouring him so stop being so precious Big Fella.

        He told me James Connolly was pissed with me for pointing out the utter delusionality of a Scotsman transplanted to the island of Ireland fighting for a unified single-state on that island whilst insisting that his island of origin remained bifurcated by the twin states of Scotland and England. And Wales! Let’s not forget Wales, like wot Fintan does all the feckin time…but I digress.

        I patiently explained to Michael as we summoned James via Zozo on the Ouija board:

        If The English insisted on the right to hegemonic dominion over the entire island of Britain like the IRA did/does demand hegemonic dominionfor the Republic of Ireland on the island of Ireland, the usual anti-fash-ha-ha suspects would be marching with their ‘Down with that Fascist kind of thing!’ banners. It is a category error whereby The Nation is conflated with The Topography, but this is utter bosh as:

        The Map Is Not The Territy

        and

        Geography is not Destiny.

        However, a Currency is far more important than Territory because:

        No Currency-No Control
        No Currency-No Culture

        Michael didn’t believe me about the Euro until he tried to pay for the next round at the bar with Punts and was told to feck off with his fancy dress army uniform. He was steaming angry but I gave him a fistful of Euros and he got pints and chaser and settle down and listened.

        He was very sad and shocked to realise that the currency was gone, the language was almost gone (with brief holdouts such as around Cork). I told him that

        No Language-No Literature

        was generally the case but that The Irish had been so marvellously inventive with The English Language since he was executed that there was, in essence, a new hybrid language emerging and also that:

        Hybridity Is The New Authenticity

        but he started scratching his head. Then the karaoke guy did some Irish Rap and I thought that would be illuminating but Michael just got more and more distressed so I thought it best to ask Zozo to release him from this apparition zone.

        WW11? Ireland? “Don’t mention the war!” Basil Fawlty ‘Fawlty Towers’….LOL!

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          “Geography is not Destiny.”

          Honorouble Alfie (President of Independent Mercia within Core UK),

          How germane you should say that just today, the day when my article has been published in the Polish two-monthly, containing the analysis (with maps and excerpts from US/Australian documents) of military doctrines of two main world’s empires (the US and China), doing their utmost in order to control the South
          China Sea (plus the critique of Poland’s purchase of 40 JASSM missiles for $500m, while Finland, who is not even a NATO member, paid $255m for 70 – so much for David McWilliams’ misconception that the US is ‘helping’ Poland’s economy and army – so far they have not even spent one cent on their military in Poland, it is all Polish subsidy to the US industry).

          Did you know that all of us, even Mercians and employees of Dienststelle 114, have at least one thing that at some stage navigated via the Malacca Strait?

          Geography is not destiny, but it can be a strong determinant.

          For example – this is just a details, but a detail which shows how far-reaching in aspects geopolitics is: the UK’s detachment from continental Europe offered it military protection, while the rugged topography of the British Isles fostered the development of strong, competing, national identities in Wales, Scotland and England, making it difficult to control.

          Geography is the reason why rimland empires have always been richer than heartland empires (more trade = higher money velocity); this applies to Atlantic countries compared to Mediterranean countries after the latter lost their rimland status (before great geographic discoveries it was the other way round);

          this is btw the reason why the UK has acted as China’s Trojan horse in the EU (they are frightened of losing their rimland position if the emphasis moves towards other seas when/if China builds the Silk Road 2.0).

          For more on that, I encourage you (and David McWilliams) to watch this 35 min video; it is 4 years old, but it is more relevant and informative than one year worth of intake of all Irish newspapers:

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_eqWOYockc

          P.S. I love some of those little stories of yours, in which you create fictional characters, oscillating between self-effacing and flaunting. You should think of honing and publishing some of them.

          In a way (in perception of the world perhaps) they remind of in essence of my favourite book from Polish literature (my favourite book from Irish literature, not to confuse with philosophical literature, is “The Third Policeman”, from English literature probably “Keep the Aspidistra Flying” – the discovery of which at the age of 15 coincided with mine and mine friend’s discovery of red wine and The Cure; from Russian literature – Brother’s Karamazov, from German literature – well it has to be “Mein Kampf” – what else bar Plato describes a democratic mind better?; the Trans-Atlantyk by Gombrowicz, an excerpt from which I attach).

          Gombrowicz is an acquired sense of humour which I am in no doubt you will get; I red an analysis done by a Frenchman of a difference by Russian and Polish character, exemplified by the difference between Gombrowicz and Dostoevsky, concluded with a realisation that the Russian’s did not go through baroque with it’s constant oscillation between morbid and grotesque; deeply philosophical and astonishingly inapproprisate and misjudged; and the self-irony following from the realisation thereof):

          http://catranslation.org/from-trans-atlantyk

  12. McCawber

    “Let that be your last battlefield”
    The ST episode that says it all about NI.
    The only thing NI has to fear from the South is that we are Not Interested.

  13. Pat Flannery

    It is ironic but the future of Northern Ireland is in the hands of Scottish voters. When the inevitable re-vote on Scotland’s membership of the UK occurs, an ‘’in’’ or ‘’out’’ vote will also determine whether the northern six counties of Ireland can remain in the UK or be forced to negotiate entry into the 26 county Irish Republic.

    I say that because it is difficult to see how the present Northern Ireland could remain in a union with England without Scotland, even if the English people wanted it, which cannot be discounted because of their long occupation of this island. We must never underestimate the English desire to retain its first colony, its ‘’other’’ island.

    The old aristocratic establishment is still the strongest power in England. The Northern Ireland loyalists know this. They know that they can still invoke this power, as they have done successfully so many times in the past.

    The most recent example being during Harold Wilson’s Prime Ministership when the establishment used black propaganda linking Wilson to the IRA, just one of the many exotic methods they used to discredit him. In the early 1970s such frantic efforts almost culminated in a right-wing coup, with Lord Mountbatten as the face on the old Establishment.

    It could happen again. Watch this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG6FR03BqIQ

    • Daithi7

      Pat,

      With all due respect, your post is taking for granted that the citizens of the Republic of Ireland would vote to take NI back. This is what has to happen (as well as a majority in Ni voting for same) to allow any reunification to occur. I don’t believe this would happen. Whatever about the vote up north, citizens of the Republic of Ireland would vote No, imho. Would historical yearning for a 32 county Republic beat the economic reality of a poorer country for several generations, I don’t think so.

      A more likely scenario imho is that if Scotland vote to leave the UK, then the UK, NI and the EU would have to negotiate how NI migrates from being a dependent, unwanted and unloved part of the UK, to a likely dependent, unwanted and unloved state in the EU.

      That’s the likely outcome imho.

      • Original-Ed

        A recent pole showed that 70% approx of ROI citizens would vote for re-unification in a referendum when viewing it through misty eyes, but that figure dropped to 30% when the realisation of having to support it kicked in.

        So much for the four green fields of yesterday.

        • AlfieMoone

          The island of Ireland united? Or the entire Global 5th Province?

          Geography Is Not Destiny

          but

          Culture trumps Economics:

          The English and Welsh are prepared to risk everything, endure a Credit Crunch and Depression, if necessary, to reclaim their countries from The Globalist. In the Centenary of 1916 there are serious questions to be asked as to why the entire D4 media conspires to deny the legacy of The Rising whilst selling it down the river Shannon to join Riverdance and The Wild Atlantic Way as part of Theme Park Ireland…

          I was asking those questions in Cork city over the weekend. With relatives and friends, a gathering of the clans so to speak….was it worth it? We’ll see. I’m exhausted but I was summoned so I went to discuss the Brexit Situation. But that was my last, best shot to stop Ireland Inc destroying Sovereignty forever with their D4 Trogan Horse aka: the IFSC.

          I’m shattered. I’m done with international travel. Takes something really special to get me on a plane these days. But when duty calls….and when duty coincides with an epochal cultural event….I endure the plane yet again.

          Prodijig in Cork this week-end was beyond *special*. It was, indeed, “mighty”. This weekend the sun, for once shone. And it made all the other stuff bearable, made it worth breaking my ‘under the radar’ Invisibility Cloak rule & agreeing to meet the old gang with all the usual rows about *The Family*…

          So, it’s back under the radar with me….no more travel updates…& I’m deffo done with all that World Leader Pretend stuff. I’m not your 5th Province Taoiseach anymore, lads…I want my life back. I’ve given you the codes to weaponise the memetic drones which will destroy The Globalist…I’m old now, I want to rest here in my hobbit hole in The Shire. I’ve done my duty…so let me be…

          “remember, remember 24th November 1974: Boston. Belfast. Birmingham: So much to answer for”

          Feel sick, like I got Legionnaire’s Disease from the plane air-con. If people knew what they were breathing…..worth it this time but…never again..
          until the next time….LOL!

          Imagine if I’m not tqking the piss? Imagine if all this ‘Peaky Paddy Blinder-Cosa Nostra Sinn Fein-Brexit 1916 Tinkers In Small Heath-MadPaddyFromBrum’ stuff isn’t ‘mental illness’? Imagine if it’s all been for real all along? Imagine if I’m 4Real? And I’ve been using this Globalist site to surreptitiously communicate with my New Rebel Army? My new Celtic Soul Rebels? My Souljas Of Destiny? ….now….wouldn’t that be quite a feat?….wouldn’t that be quite an achievement?….better than the film of the book of the play of the screenplay?……wouldn’t that make my comment history here on this site both a work of art and a Shrine? Comments that nobody of any significance in, say Mayo or Cork, ever reads (smirks)- a very special samizdat work of art, almost like a revolutionary pixellated Praxis, perhaps an element of a soon to be revealed Total Art Work, what Juncker & Schauble would immediately recognise as a Wagner-esque Gesamtkunstwerk that had infiltrated beneath the radar and was now poised, like a pre-programmed bot-swarm of memes and data drones to destroy their bunkers?…Wouldn’t that be just hilarious stuff? If *just another nutter ranting on the Interwebz* under his supposed Real Legal Name because he knew ‘internet free speech’ was a CIA plot turned out to have been a Dark Genius all along? With no want or need of Fame, Fortune or guest stand-up slots at Kilkenomics? Wouldn’t it be funny if the next Irish Saviour after St Patrick was stolen by Irish Slavers turned up on the same shores of the River Severn, standing at Worcester Cathedral’s doors gazing on the sunlit river and planning to save his acestral sod from The Globalist? A little BrummieBoy who danced at the first ever World’s Feis in Parnell Square in Dublin?….It would be funny..it would be a gas..but…..let’s wait and see, shall we?..let’s wait and see if the stars have aligned for little Andy Mooney to finally return to the stage ..*wink*

          best
          Alfie Moone

          for/on behalf of

          Andy Mooney:

          The Cultural An Toaseach of The Fifth Province of The Global Irish Diaspora

          &

          1st President of the 2nd Secular Republic Of Ireland

          ps: ” A total of 9 per cent had no declared religion.”

          “Imagine no religion, it’s easy if you try” John Lennon

          Repeal The 8th

          pps: Alan Kennefick is one smart Cork cookie!

          ===============================================

          The Great Dictator’s Speech
          I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone – if possible – Jew, Gentile – black man – white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness – not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

          Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost….

          The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men – cries out for universal brotherhood – for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world – millions of despairing men, women, and little children – victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.

          To those who can hear me, I say – do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed – the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. …..

          Soldiers! don’t give yourselves to brutes – men who despise you – enslave you – who regiment your lives – tell you what to do – what to think and what to feel! Who drill you – diet you – treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men – machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don’t hate! Only the unloved hate – the unloved and the unnatural! Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!

          In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” – not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power – the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure.

          Then – in the name of democracy – let us use that power – let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world – a decent world that will give men a chance to work – that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!

          Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfil that promise! Let us fight to free the world – to do away with national barriers – to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite”

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDT1MF69_cs

        • Daithi7

          How did they differentiate between the two pole responses???

          Sounds highly subjective to me.

          However, I think the latter opinion is the actual now based on my experience. People in the Republic of Ireland have neither the will or the economic wherewithal to take on supporting the backward, social welfare dependent, NI quasi state.
          It won’t happen imho its NI in the UK or the EU but not in the Roi.

      • AlfieMoone

        ‘A more likely scenario imho is that if Scotland vote to leave the UK, then the UK, NI and the EU would have to negotiate how NI migrates from being a dependent, unwanted and unloved part of the UK, to a likely dependent, unwanted and unloved state in the EU.’

        It’s now the inevitable outcome and, in the year of the Centenary of 1916, it’s deeply, darkly hilarious in it’s implications for the entire M.O.P.E Scots-Irish Victim-Scripts, not to mention for the Bonfire-Bowler Hat Brigades.

        Here’s another outcome you might not have thought of: Ireland splits into 4 provinces (or 5 if Osraige re-emerges as I plan) in response to the exact same overweening arrogance of the Normans in Dublin that’s shown by the Normans in London. Canary Wharf on the Thames, Canary Dwarf on the Liffey, would both of ye ever fuck off & leave us in peace here on the River Lee?

        Just as London isn’t England, Dublin isn’t Ireland but the D4 commentariat are so delusional that they still think that old game’s still viable and the the Cork Culchies aren’t watching what their related Munster Mercians are doing and thinking about Brexit in and around Brum. Fuck London. Fuck Dublin. Either spread the wealth or prepare for mayhem and Uprisings to make 1916 seem like a squabble in the park, which of course, it was in St Stephen’s Green…

        Beyond the singsong Fields Of Athenry #COYBIG ‘feck the English’ nonsense, nearly everyone knows the score:

        ‘many in Ireland had a sneaking sympathy for Scottish aspirations for independence, there was an unexpressed national interest in pulling up the drawbridge and hoping that Scotland remained in the UK because of the dangers a UK break-up would have posed for the North.’

        In other words, it’s just the usual Celtic-Rangers bullshit show.

        ‘economy is massively dependent on transfers from London amounting to around 30 per cent of its income. This subvention is needed to maintain the North’s current high standard of living. This makes it virtually impossible to leave the UK.’

        It doesn’t make it virtually impossible for England to leave the UK though, does it?

        ‘One recent study of the economics of a united Ireland, on the basis of extremely optimistic assumptions, concluded that a united Ireland might be beneficial for Northern Ireland. However, one of the assumptions was that Ireland would continue to provide the current massive level of transfers that come from London.

        Not from ‘London’ ya daft eejit, from the entire English Taxpayer Base. FFS!

        ‘The scale of such transfers for the Republic would place a far greater burden on the population here than even the recent years of financial crisis, reducing household income by almost 15 per cent.
        Such a dramatic reduction in the standard of living in the Republic would be needed to fund a permanently higher standard of living in the North. Thus a united Ireland is hardly possible on economic grounds.’

        Then stop singing ‘Fields of Athenry’? Stop the 1916 Centenary and admit it was all a mistake? Where is Mr Fitzgerald going with this?

        ‘An alternative “Celtic Fringe” option, where Scotland and the North would leave the UK and join the EU would be equally implausible given the burden for Scotland of supporting the huge transfers that keep Northern Ireland afloat.’

        ie, it’s as I’ve said: Sturgeon’s proposing ‘The Axis of Eejitry’ but smart canny Scots with their finger on their pocketbook know their Adam Smith, know their Wealth of Nations and won’t go along with the Glasgow Celtic woad Braveheart victim script if it means penury.

        ‘Only the large and wealthy English economy can afford to continue funding the North at the current rate. However, here lies the real concern. If Scotland were to seek independence to join the EU, the large transfer to the North would be even more obvious than it is at present.’

        Well, that’s one way of putting it. Another way would be that the best possible thing for both Scotland and Norn Iron would be to be shorn of the subsidy from the ‘hated Sassenach’ and/or Unionist ally that is some imagined ‘London’ and have to grow up and become a functioning polity. I’m advising the EU take on the role of mentoring and shepherding both Scotland and Northern Ireland to a new accomodation with reality now the game’s up, now they’ve voted to leave Core UK England and Wales by voting Remain: whether they realised it or not is irrelevant.

        ‘Even if the UK continues in its current format, the rise of English nationalism threatens the future of the transfers. It seems likely that in a UK suffering the significant costs of Brexit, pressures on government resources could well see a reconsideration of the transfers which allow the North to experience better services than in some parts of England.’

        Hence the continued, frantic campaign of hatred against the English whose Nationalism is despised and derided by a non-trivial minority of Scots who cannot accept their ancestors tried and failed to launch their own independent Empire but failed spectaculary at Darien and had to go cap in hand with begging bowl to the English, just as the Irish have had to go to their new EUropa bankster masters after trying and failing to become a Globalist Bankster Playa, hence bailouot, Troika but usual reversal to type: Blame The English. Pathetic.

        ‘London must be encouraged to live up to its economic commitments to the North’ John Fitzgerald ‘The Paper of Note’

        London isn’t England, Mr Fitzgerald. Didn’t the Christian Brothers teach you that? Would ya ever just feck off?

        http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/major-changes-in-uk-may-destabilise-north-s-economy-1.2729931

    • yadayada

      Scottish nationalism peaked in the last Westminster election. The Edinburgh parliament vote saw snp reversals. A rerun is not going to happen because they’d get a worse result. Remember when oil was going to be a minimum of $110 for ever? Aberdeen has crashed, and it was a bigger economic unit than Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee put together back then.
      Take it you haven’t been there recently.

    • AlfieMoone

      ‘ it is difficult to see how the present Northern Ireland could remain in a union with England without Scotland, even if the English people wanted it, which cannot be discounted because of their long occupation of this island. We must never underestimate the English desire to retain its first colony, its ‘’other’’ island.
      The old aristocratic establishment is still the strongest power in England.’

      And the exact same aristocratic establishment is still the strongest power over the entire island of Ireland. George Osborne is the hereditary Baronet of Tipperary. The praetorian guards may have changed to the fake FF/FG Soldiers of Destiny but not much else changed after 1916. Oh, I forgot: the Roman Catholic church raped away for a century…then the banksters had a bit of a jolly-up at the taxpayers expense…then the Americans stopped the bondholders being burnt so Paddy now has to pay even unto the 7th generation…but you still blame this fictional ‘English’ entity that nourishes your Victim Script/chip on shoulder. Erm, LOL!

      ‘It is ironic but the future of Northern Ireland is in the hands of Scottish voters. When the inevitable re-vote on Scotland’s membership of the UK occurs, an ‘’in’’ or ‘’out’’ vote will also determine whether the northern six counties of Ireland can remain in the UK or be forced to negotiate entry into the 26 county Irish Republic.’

      Let’s just put it to the test with a referendum for the English (the entire English People, not just the House of Common Whores & Lord Frauds) because the aristocratic eltie who run the UK Parliament will never vote to cut the umbilical cord to Northern Ireland but the People would…and their mirror image Plastic Paddy brethen in the Dail & Sinead would go beserk if they landed the Republic of Ireland with the bill for a ‘united island of Ireland’.

      Here’s the Referendum Q’s for The English:

      Q: Do you want to pay £7 billion a year to fund Northern Ireland in perpetuity?

      OR

      Q: Or do you want England to leave the UK and spend that money on the NHS?

      Q: Do you agee to the EU taking responsibility for Northern Ireland’s affairs, as an EU Peace Protectorate if you decide that England is leaving the UK?

      Place your bets, lads.

      If Paddy was smart, geo-political & strategic, he’d take my advice, play the long game, be the cute hoor & let the ‘gallant EUro allies abroad’ pay for the upkeep of Northern Ireland…as an ‘interim measure’. That way, we all get a Win-Win. Except for the EU.. but they’re vain enough to be compensated with a few Nobel Peace prizes and crap like that.

      ‘The old aristocratic establishment is still the strongest power in England’

      A ridiculous comment, given the fact that The Mob has just voted to Brexit & FcUKEU, telling the UK Parliament to drop dead in a plebiscite which the arrogant aristos in the UK Parliament assumed they could spin their way with Project Fear. They’ve had their arses handed to them on a plate & if they try to frustrate Brexit we’ll be having another Guy Fawkes situation…seriously…

      ‘a right-wing coup…it could happen again.’

      Calm down, dear! It could, but it won’t because Theresa May, PM isn’t Brussel’s bitch and she knows all about the threat from the extreme Right Wing of the Tories, that’s why she’s pretending to be a New Labour ‘progressive’.

      If you think England footie fans are nutters, you should see the UKIP guys drinking cider in pubs round here….have no doubts that Theresa May knows all about them, and about the rogue ex-SAS contingent sitting on a pile of weapons in the Shires and Marches who wouldn’t think twice about blowing the shite out of the entire Cultural Marxist media and political cabal in Londinium if there’s any nonsense…. Naturally, I’d try to reason them back towards the voting booth but my influence has limits because: “The Mob is fickle!”

      “Brexit MEANS Brexit” Theresa May.

      Now, let’s get on with ScotExitUK & NornIronExitUK….

      best
      AlfieMoone
      GCHQ-Cheltenham

    • AlfieMoone

      I typed this comment and it vanished so, from memory:

      This is a very LOL! article. I briefly chatted with Bill Bonner at Kilkenomics one year. I didn’t intend to. I was talking to someone else and he joined in. I’m not sure he realised who I was but he was polite and engaging unlike some of the other ‘luminaries’ who I bumped into at the bar.

      I totally LOVE the way he takes a metaphorical axe to the neck of ‘the ever-elite, Parasitocracy mouthpiece Mr Martin Wolf’ whose avuncular, patronising, paternalistic parroting of Globalist nostrums makes me heave each and every time I scorch my retina scanning the Expert Opinion gibberish that is the London FT. Mr Wolf ended this particular attack of the vapours by bewailing Brexit as an existential threat to his cozy smug Neoliberal certainties. He warns ‘us’ that ‘Our civilisation itself is at stake’. Whose civilisation, mate? Not that of Mercia or Munster, but that of London, Dublin and New York City. Not ‘us’ but ‘them’.

      As the FT now sponsor Kilkenomics I assume Martin Wolf will have an EPIC tantrum and demand Bill Bonner be banned. He won’t ask for me to be banned because he’d dismiss me as an irrelevant Nobody who could never threaten a Somebody like himself. I bet he’s one of those who read the articles here but never read BTL (beneath the line) where the Little People have their say, venting their absurd complaints about the injustices of Globalism and the destruction of the Nation State for Profit. But it’s nice he’s concerned enough to warn the powers that be that more Bread and Circuses are required to be distributed to the denizens of Birmingham and Cork to pacify them and get them back on track with the PR propaganda of the BBC/RTE/FT matrix whereby the ELITE! works to disguise the Globalist plot to destroy the indigenous working class of Post-War Europe, infected as they are by the rogue viruses of Justice and Economic Equality & replace them with compliant desperate immigrants from war zones so they can have their multiculti restaurants and brothels in every financial citadel they create.

      Mr Bonner is incorrect. It isn’t paper money, gold or ‘stuff’ that matters in this brief existence: it is the miracle of love, of loving and being loved. No amount of dollars, gold or ‘stuff’ will ever compensate for a loveless life. And no amount of dollars, gold or ‘stuff’ will ever bring back the time you waste chasing that nonsense in the first place. There was an ancient philosopher who watched some victory parade of war spoils and bounty as it was being distributed to The Mob. He said something like “Look at all the things I simply do not need!”. I think it was the same guy who lived in a barrel who answered Alexander The Great as follows:

      Alexander: “I am the most powerful man in the world. Is there anything I can do for you?”

      Diogenes: “Yes, get out of my line of sight. You’re blocking the sunlight”

      Or words to that effect.

      I’m being a real bitch here but it needs to be said. Some of us don’t go to Kilkenomis to fawn and idolise the ‘celebrity economists’. We go to chortle and gurgle from the circle at the Confederacy of Dunces, the Expert Idiot Class who dream up a different ‘explanatory model’ each and every year. I’m particularly looking forward to this year and hope the great and the good provide mirthful moments to remember as they struggle to explain how they didn’t even notice the Brexit train had left the station…Fingers crossed that Fintan will be there to have a good aul rant about The English before feinting with suppressed embarassment at the utter failure of the entire 1916 Republic of Ireland panto. I will try to remember to pack smelling salts to revive the poor creature.

      Is that enough? If not, what do you have to do to get banned from this place?

      OMG Owen Smith is on the telly trying to revive the corpse of Neoliberal New Labour in the UK. Good luck with that one, ya Crachach Taffia EUtopian Neu Liebour toss-pot.

      ‘The snobbery of the crachach is at the very heart of all that is wrong in Wales’

      ‘The self-select, self-serving elite of Wales.

      The crachach: the cabal of we-know-what’s-good-for-you rugby-supporting men, yes men I think they’re usually men, in positions of power, influence, or self-appointed importance in Wales.’

      http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/news-opinion/snobbery-crachach-very-heart-wrong-8500696

      • AlfieMoone

        I can’t wait for the Irish Jeremy Corbyn to arise…..LOL! Any candidates? Of course, it won’t be a bourgeois D4 socialist, it will be a Cornpone-Culchie candidate from Cork or Kerry who will make the Healy-Rae show seem like Marxism. Please note: Culchie, like Queer and the N-word has been reclaimed and re-imagined. It is now a compliment, not an insult. As I left Cork on Sunday the first night of the Gay Pride Bacchanal had just ended. Soon, there’ll be Culchie Pride marches…and pitchforks and torches…LOL!

        Seriously, once the Dublin Globalist Elite mocked the Garth Brooks Croke Park Tragedy the game was up….

        As we entered Laois my companion on what he feverishly feared was a day-trip safari to the dark heart of The Pale murmured…”Andy! I hear banjos! Turn around and get us back to Dublin”….

        “Make your vote and pray, that he goes all the way! He’s flat to the mat with his black cap, and there’s no time for tae”

        “We look to Cork for the language we use: Dublin is dead. Dublin is dead…”

        ‘Forget about ‘culchie’ jibes and let’s put rural neglect back in spotlight’

        http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/forget-about-culchie-jibes-and-lets-put-rural-neglect-back-in-spotlight-385657.html

  14. damienmullan

    Having Northern Ireland go cold turkey is simple not an option, either for a reunified Ireland or for the remaining UK. Ireland and the UK will have to work closely together in the decade after a vote for reunification. The UK will be moral obliged to provide assistance given the dire state of the economy in NI. But one must see opportunities also, even within the seemly bleak prospects David paints. For instance the 20% may not be reflective of the budgetary position of a reunified NI in the short term, in that while NI remains part of the UK this figure would be considered the structural deficit, that all things being equal this deficit would not budge even with economic growth, but a NI reunified would enjoy a 12.5% corporate tax rate as well as the expertise and assistance of the IDA proactively driving FDI into the region. These new policy dynamics could begin to bear fruit very quickly in expanding the private economy and revenues from additional taxes and charges from the region. So the headline figure might not be as dire as thought. Nonetheless it is obvious that even will all the best of will and fortune, NI does have a significant structural budget deficit and will have to see its public service reduced and greater efficiency savings implemented, but this would arise anyway with reunification. This ought to be done sensibly and not in haste, taking the assistance program that Ireland endured from 2010 until 2013 as a base, but not the baseline, it should be envisioned that this process will be target lead, but that it will be over a longer time frame given the extent of the deficit, a 10 year period ought to be sufficient, any long and money markets may be unconvinced, which would then jeopardize the Irish sovereign. A clearly feasible and ambitious program ought to be the object, the Irish civil service is among the most competent in the western world, the very fact that the Troika, almost to the letter, grafted the entire rescue program for Ireland in late 2010 from the work done by the Irish civil service in the immediate months after the September surprise of 2010, when the cost of the banking crisis became apparent is a credit to their competence and expertise. Over the course of this 10 year program the UK government must assist in this transitory period. Absolving NI of any liability to carry forward any of the UK’s national debt would be a good starting start, but it’s obligations ought not to end there, it must provide direct transfers also, helping to fund a portion of NI’s deficit over the first decade. This is the least the UK should do given the rotten state of dependency the region as fallen into. There are also things that the Republic will have to do beyond the fiscal burden as well, the political and constitutional reform that must be undertaken, this process is something that ought to be planned for in advance and done because it is in-and-of-itself beneficial and necessary. We must acknowledge now that in order to maintain confidence and good relations across the region the notion of abolishing the assembly and executive in NI is a none runner. This immediately presents the south with a dilemma, a West Lothian question in an Irish context. In which a significant region within a reunified Ireland has competence and responsibility over a sizable array of policy areas, a degree of autonomy not shared by other regional areas elsewhere on the island. This will cause tension and resentment that must be headed off, this will necessitate the creation of a federal state, a la ‘The New Ireland Forum’. This, if we are serious about reunification, must be done in the decades and years before a vote of reunification, i.e now. This will be a determination that we are serious and anticipate the reunification of the Ireland and are planning accordingly. It would be an exceeding distraction for any Irish government to have to deal and execute reunification, while at the same time and in parallel undertake these massive constitutional changes in devolution across the rest of the country. This issue ought to be resolved well in advance. The only issue that would then have to be resolved would be whether a three country devolved administration of Ulster comprised of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan would wish to have their devolved arrangements subsumed into the new and larger Ulster in a post-reunification scenario. This would likely be resolved by having a referendum within the three counties to allow for such a change, as well as within the other six counties of Ulster, a question purely on the issue of these devolved arrangements. If the vote went negative it would be no big issue, meaning that Ireland would have 5 devolved administrations rather than 4. All these matters must be aired well in advance, it would be wise for the Irish government, in light of Brexit, to establish a New Ireland Forum today, and have its operations run on a continual basis, its primary objectives being to continuously examine these areas in light of raw data, both on the economic and political side to formulate proposals and ideas. To issue yearly road maps on the trajectory of options in a reunified context. The government ought to have it housed on a university campus to take advantage of the expertise in economic, law and political science fields, with distinguished people from all areas involved on its board and steering committee, I’d venture David McWilliams name among those who should be approached. Naming it the Hume Institute in honour of that great visionary John Hume would be a nice touch.

    • Deco

      The Dept of Fin. auditted 2 Irish banks, right before the banking crisis.

      It approved of both, and declared them solvent.

      On that basis, it decided that the other 4 were also solvent. [ this perspective was based on presumption, not analysis ].

      Soon afterwards, all 6 were insolvent.

      There is something not working in D2.

      Strangely enough a private sector firm of accountants also did an audit of Anglo, and produced the “cheapest bailout in history” line that was even more absurd.

      There is a serious problem in the professional ethos of both D2, and also the expensive private sector professionals that they hire (at great cost).

    • yadayada

      Yawn. Post Brexit Britain will have a corporation tax rate of zero. Do keep up.

    • yadayada

      Post Brexit Britain will have a corporation tax rate of zero. Do keep up.

    • willie

      You must be a civil servant, 100billion borrowed in my name to pay for you, thank you I will take my capital else where, no more tax in Ireland for you pal,

    • AlfieMoone

      damienmullan:

      A serious analysis deserving a ‘serious response with a magical-realist absurdist crescendo/finale’.

      We agree that part of the new Core UK England & Wales project should be to ensure the smooth transfer of both Scotland and Northern Ireland to their new home within the European Union.

      We agree that a decade of funding support is appropriate but feel this obligation lies with the European Union as it is that entity that will benefit from the future prosperity & tax revenues of their new client states/provinces called ‘Scotland’ and ‘Northern Ireland’.

      We cannot see how the Legacy UK unit of England, Wales & Scotland can amicably agree to fund Northern Ireland given that Scotland would benefit more from future revenue flows as it plans to remain part of th e European Union.

      We would ask you to note the fact that over 43 years, the Legacy UK unit of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland has been a Net Contributor to European Unit funds, largely from the English Taxpayer base supplemented by temporary ‘Scottish’ oil revenues. Prior to the rapid and reckless ‘mission creep’ of Eastern Enlargement of the European Union, vast sums of £ were transferred to the island of Ireland (both North and South) either directly from England or via the European Union contributions of Legacy UK as a Net Contributor.

      We would ask you to put to one side the absurdities of ‘Leprechaunomics’ and accept that the income of the Republic of Ireland is now such that it must accept a future as Net Contributor to the European Union project, rationalising these contributions as essential towards it’s stated long-term ambition to reunite Ulster with the current 26 counties once political and cultural congruence is acheived/agreed with the population of Northern Ireland.

      The new Core UK has no further ‘moral’ obligations to the island of Ireland or to Scotland should either/both decide to hold referendums to rejoin the European Union once Brexit terminates the current Legacy UK membership.

      The real ‘moral’ obligation lies with the European Union and the European Central Bank which should accept the heroic contribution of the citizens of the Republic of Ireland in saving the Euro and it’s banking system by accepting 42% of the cost of that operation.

      The real ‘moral obligation’ lies with the European Union and the European Central Bank to ensure that the necessary Austerity which Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland face as the first two countries leave the UK & the third country plans to reunite with the second (and possibly first) in a new ‘Celtic Fringe Archipelago of the EU’ is tempered by generous structural adjustment funds from the Troika such that all three countries do not have to endure the levels of immiseration and despair which has been visited on Greece.

      We note that the government of the Republic of Ireland saw no ‘moral obligation’ to express solidarity with their co-client state/province ‘Greece’ during this episode.

      We further note the decision of Mr Timothy Geithner, whilst acting as US Treasury Secretary, to thwart the option of ‘burning the bondholders’ which even august members of the IMF thought was a necessary and appropriate sanction against reckless German and French banks who ensured the reunification of Germany and adjacent Franco-German economic plan was advanced by facilitating extraordinary levels of financial wherewithal to the Western front of the European Union. We see no reason whatsoever why such funds cannot be provided for the challenges of Brexit but hope they will not be offered on such userous terms as to constitute further Odious Debt for any of these three nations of Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland who wish to escape ‘Yonder Saxon Foe’ and built a bright new future with their ‘gallant EUropean allies’.

      We hope that the government & media elites of all these countries fully outline to their populaces the full implications of these decisions rather than resort to the previous tactics employed during referendum events such as the second vote on the Lisbon Treaty, the first Scottish Independence referendum and the Brexit referendum.

      You use the opiate detox metaphor of ‘cold turkey’ but that is exactly what all three countries of Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland are voting for if they decide to cut the purse-strings of the English Treasury by voting for any of the proposed options of

      -an exit of either/both Scotland and Northern Ireland from the current Legacy UK

      -a reunification of Ulster and it’s absorption into an all-island of Ireland state that would, presumably, be called the 2nd Republic of Ireland.

      Finally, we do not share your confidence in the Irish Civil Service, especially given it’s abject failure to monitor the banking sector prior to the bailout and the arrival of the Troika.

      There is no logical reason why the European Union should not absorb or write off the Legacy UK National Debt proportionate to both Scotland and Northern Ireland as part of it’s ‘structural adjustment’ programme with the IMF/EU/ECB Troika to ensure both countries are ‘fit for purpose’ in a post-Brexit legacy European Union. The ‘rotten state of dependency’ you refer to is a self-created and self-inflicted state, it has nothing to do with the new Core UK England and Wales.

      No doubt the Celtic Fringe EU Peace Protectorate Project will be generously supported by her exiled children in America who will have no qualms about adopting the Legacy UK financial responsibilities as proof of the ‘special relationship’ status of Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland with the United States of America.

      We note with interest your speculations about a ‘West Lothian Question in an Irish context’ but would urge diplomatic caution in raising or using this formulation in the presence of First Minister Of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon as she may have a wee tantrum..

      Also, Donegal, Monaghan and Cavan are what both Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond contemptuously dismiss as ‘counties’ as the latter recently did whilst taking part in a BBC Question Time ‘heated debate’ in the Saxon-Mercian metropolis of Birmingham. Both seem to forget that England was built from separate ‘nations’ such as Mercia, Yorkshire and Cornwall and could revert to either a feral warlord Balkanised mess or evolve into a federalised consensual union of legacy Nations, Counties and City-States which is our proposal. We made the same proposal to our friends in Munster this weekend whilst visiting the ‘rebel’ stronghold of Cork city to discuss Brexit and have a few ‘scoops’ whilst watching ProdiJig’s ‘Revolution’.

      We do not accept the assertion of John Fitzgerald, writing in The Irish Times that ‘London must be encouraged to live up to its economic commitments to the North’. Mr Fitzgerald is very confused. London isn’t England. And he makes no mention of the contribution of Edinburgh. Why would that be?

      http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/major-changes-in-uk-may-destabilise-north-s-economy-1.2729931

      We have watched many people call upon the host/proprietor of this internet ‘blog’ to step forward and assume the role of political leadership with all it’s vexatious compromises and impositions on personal freedom and family life. We’ve heard from some who’ve met this ‘celebrity Economist’ who report back that he’s having a very nice life, thanks, and would rather eat his testicles than put up with all that nonsense. Which is a shame as he appears to have what the talent spotters at Cape Canaveral call ‘The Right Stuff’. But even the longest life is a short one and our Supreme Leader Andy Mooney has also renounced all calls to assume control of these Isles of Wonder because it would stop him lying around on the chaise longue all day eating grapes and being fascinating..

      Please note that the Common Travel Area is over. It is finished. It is defunct, not just for terrorist security reasons but because we, the Shire Irish descendants of all those who fled the numerous incompetent Irish ‘leaders’ over centuries to find ‘Sanctuary in the Saxon Shires’ will simply not put up with it anymore. Ireland must stop exporting it’s most talented people every time it’s inept politician make a hames of funning the place. The absurdity of it all is that the Night Boats will be full of fugees heading for life in the belly of the beast amongst Yonder Saxon Foe, sent packing by the same fake Soldiers of Destiny if they fuck up the S.W.O.T scenario that is Brexit.

      Brexit is our gift to the Celtic Fringe. It is a glorious opportunity. It’s time for Paddy to stop arseing around and move on from singing ‘Fields of Athenry’ near Polish concentration camps and get real about the past, present and future. We will close the CTA to ensure there is no ‘safety valve’ for future corrupt Irish regimes. The sadness in the eyes of exiled Irish youth in Birmingham and London is moving. They were raised, as our parents were raised, to believe the ‘heathen’ English were their enemies, only to have to face up to the fact that their own govermenments have been their biggest enemies.

      We were in Cork at the weekend and the loud vulgarian ‘Irish-American’ contingent were acting up/acting out in a bar, ranting on about Brexit as if they owned the place. Telling all and sundry how America would make sure the British/English/Saxons (changes with each pint) did what Irish America wanted. We politely pointed out that we’d just told President Barack O’Bama to fuck off with his shamrock bollocks and take Enda with him. They were so shocked to be actually confronted by a real, wild rebel Irishman, speaking in a broad Brummie brogue. So ignorant they didn’t even know that Padraig Pearse’s father was an Atheist from Birmingham, England. They hadn’t even seen ‘Peaky Blinders’. We smiled and moved to the next bar where ‘Voodoo Child’ were playing….

      ‘For the present I have said enough to indicate that when my father and mother married there came together two very widely remote traditions—English and Puritan and mechanic on the one hand, Gaelic and Catholic and peasant on the other: freedom loving both, and neither without its strain of poetry and its experience of spiritual and other adventure. And these two traditions worked in me and fused together by a certain fire proper to myself . . . made me the strange thing I am.’
      —Patrick Pearse (Autobiography)

      James Pearse was born on 8 December 1839 into a poor London family. When he was between the ages of seven and eight, the family moved to Birmingham.

      The real capital of the island of Ireland is most deffo Cork. But the real capital of the 5th Province of the Global Irish Diaspora is Birmingham, England. Since St Patrick was stolen from the banks of the Severn to Shakespeare , to the factories of the industrial revolution, the real story of what it was/is and sadly probably always will be to be ‘Irish’ is only found in the Narrative of those who either were forced to leave or fled in disgust.

      Historians will doubtless note with incredulity that nobody ever realise that the gatekeepers of the Narrative weren’t the Irish Americans but the invisibilised Shire Irish spiral tribe of The Birmingham Irish. That is why some, claiming to be the ‘IRA’, had to bomb Birmingham on the night of November 21st 1974, to stop the Saxon-Culchie Alliance from formenting an Uprising against the fake Soldiers of Destiny who’d trashed Ireland since 1916…..they almost succeeded….but not quite!

      extract from
      ‘An Irish Childhood In Birmingham’
      a magical realist Autofiction by

      Andy Mooney
      President of the 5th Province Irish Global Diaspora

      …..tbc…..

  15. Deco

    At the end of the analysis, talk of a merger between the two state systems is an illusion.

    One lives off transfers from Westminster, and the other off endless borrowing.

    Both are currently unsustainable, over-extended, inefficient, ineffective operations.

    Merging them would trigger too many difficult questions of the public sector in the RoI, and the private sector in NI to the point of laying bare the level of pretence about both states.

    Neither the RoI or NI are capable of living within their means, or of exercising restraint. One produces a squeezed private sector. The other produces a labour training qaungo that leaves people less employable than the day before they entered.

    Not one political party will dare address this.

    Yet, many of them are optimistic enough to make all sorts of unworkable projections.

  16. McCawber

    The cute hoor perspective on this.
    The South holds a plebiscite on a United Ireland and votes against it with a significant majority and a high turnout.
    This would make the people of NI realise that a United Ireland is not a given at their behest and that they need to find out why and take corrective.
    Anybody with a brain in their head up there should be planning now for a future united Ireland or at least the option.
    Were they to that they might discover that as a result of getting their house in order they don’t need a united Ireland.
    Oh the irony of it. It’s not logical captain.

    Not in my lifetime I reckon.

  17. Andypiper

    David, you tells us ‘The question is whether Ireland wants the North’. Does this reflect your default view or are you being deliberately provocative? Ireland compromises the North, South, East and West – the above and the below – the past present and future.

  18. Deco

    Wherein you have a single state system on the island, you need a state system that can effectively function.

    Emotive button pressing, following the alure of bigness, engaging in guilt trips and rabble rousing will not make anything function better. And thereby it will not solve anything.

    In the context of an independent TD raising 115 issues in the Dail with the respect to admin and operational problems in the HSE, we seem to have a state system that is already badly focussed, and not very accountable to citizens.

    Ministers also perform a lot of the same tasks. The Taoiseach even tried to get involved in finding a job for a relative of his wife.

    There is a nonsense level in the state system that undermines any serious undertaking.

  19. This endless debt and money printing scheme is in reality a solution in search of a problem. Or, perhaps if central bankers were a more honest bunch, they would tell you the BOJ is using the growth excuse to tackle the real issue: Japan’s tax base can no longer service its debt.

    The debts can not be paid.
    The welfare state can not be afforded
    After people become dependent on handouts (subsidies for the cost of living) they become liabilities.

    It applies all over the world not just to N.Ireland

    http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/japan%E2%80%99s-lemming-syndrome

    • PS all governments are intent on giving handouts to their constituents. It makes them dependent.

      “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts”

    • “The devil and idle hands
      Free money is a blind menace: It ruins the rich and the poor alike.

      And the more money you apply to the task…the more people you can ruin.

      That’s why children of rich parents are often more corroded than those of the poor; the rich have more money to spend on them.

      In Aspen, Colorado, for example — an enclave of wealth — levels of depression and drug use among adolescents are higher than in poor communities.

      Taking money for nothing is an easy habit to get into…and a hard habit to break.”

      http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/how-free-money-leaves-everyone-poorer/2016/06/06/

  20. The northern Ireland economy has been destroyed along with all the western manufacturing centers as the production of “Things” moved east and the west went to a service economy and one relying upon financial assets. Or where the rich get richer and the rest stagnate.

    The central cause of this is the adoption since 1971 of unlimited paper/digital money supplied in ever increasing quantities, i.e. quantitative easing. This money is backed by nothing and issued as a debt. In the UK it resulted in the burgeoning of the financial center of London and the South East and the demise, economically, of everywhere else with limited exceptions.
    —————————————————————–

    Bill Bonner

    How the Dollar Destroyed the Middle Class

    DUBLIN – When you start thinking about what money is and how it works, you face isolation, shunning, and possible incarceration.

    The subject is so slippery – like a bead of mercury on a granite countertop – you become frustrated and… then… maniacal.

    You begin talking to yourself, because no one else will listen to you. If you are not careful, you may be locked up among the criminally insane.

    http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/dollar-destroyed-middle-class/2016/07/25/

    • McCawber

      While it is a problem in the short term, all manufacturing will be done by robots in the not too distant future, so I wouldn’t be overly concerned.
      The financial industry seems somehow to have given itself a self appointed importance way beyond its real importance.
      A question- Why do central banks charge interest on the money they print for the government and why are governments giving this money to banks instead of using it themselves to reduce their debts.

  21. aidanxc

    Well argued article David. As you said, the numbers don’t lie. Conor Cruise O’Brien (having stood as a Unionist MP in N. Ireland) concluded his foray into Northern Irish politics by saying that Unionism’s best hope was to negotiate a united Ireland from their current position of relative strength before demographics and English nationalism outflanked them.

  22. McCawber

    The real problem for our electorate would be the almost total body politic being in the For camp.
    Who will provide the counter arguments.
    Someone should ask Suds which way should we vote.
    Bertie, who is chomping at the bit to launch his presidential, would see it as manns from heaven. Warp factor 9.999999999 Uhooryah

  23. michaelcoughlan

    Hi all,

    I know I am off topic but I think something really weird is happening in the markets. Some of the indexes are making new highs in a momentum divergence reality. Gold is correcting down as is oil and silver. Dbank is still going down. I’s say something big is happening. Soros is short DB, long gold and short the indexes. Really scary stuff.

    Michael.

  24. The first thing to worry about is yourself. then contemplate the travails of Northern Ireland etc.

    http://dailyreckoning.com/get-gold-wagon-10000/

  25. survivalist

    The north is an economic basket case? But where isn’t. And so what?

    The economy is not as it is because of particular characteristics of the people who happen to live there.

    Let’s not forget that we, the average Joes, have been on the receiving end of decades of economic/class warfare, and that the north is no exception, despite its special historical circumstance and present day political complexity.

    We know that economic reportings are works of fiction and that their primary purpose is to maintain the status quo of enabling the maximizing of wealth and power to special interest groups while maintaining psychological control over the people.

    The epitome of a well-managed economy (Australia) as reported by the MSM in Ireland, has been built upon the backs of workers whose wage increases have been frozen for decades. That fact did not get so much coverage though.

    A strong economy; who wants it?

    As for the economics driven narrative that the North is mired in misery, consider the following facts; that as recently as 2013 “Belfast was ranked ahead of Manchester, Liverpool and London in a UK-wide survey of the best cities to live and work in.” (from the BBC)

    Also from 2013, research reproduced in the Belfast Telegraph was reported as raising questions “over whether disillusionment with Northern Ireland is more mythical than factual”

    And finally from 2015 “a recent study showed people in NI are the happiest in The UK” available here; https://www.finance-ni.gov.uk/news/people-northern-ireland-happiest-uk

    What is real is that workers the world over have suffered economic regression since the 1990s; its just that people have been too busy or distracted to notice the theft.

    Debt has been steadily rising to compensate for a freeze in wages thereby doubly rewarding the thieves.

    The heart of the matter, despite centuries of trying to bury the truth and all the modern day sophistication, is that the workers have not secured the fruits of their labour.

    • in BC a 1970 hour of labour (literally labour and not trades or professions ) actually bought approximately 100% more than it does today.

      Put another way , an hour of labour is worth, today, 45% of what it was in 1970. That is before any income tax deductions.

      Put yet another way. The standard of living is 45% of what it was in 1970.With inflation now estimated by reliable sources at 8% and not the government propagated 2%, and wage growth static the standard of living is dropping quickly now.

      Escalating credit growth has added debt loads to maintain the living standard but ability to borrow more is constricted by the ability to make any more loan payments. In fact many are defaulting.

      The standard of living is about to take another hit. Political mayhem has arrived and escalating as witnessed by the volatility at the GOP convention and now the Democrats convention. Then take a look at the coming European elections.

      Interesting times.

  26. Pat Flannery

    Daithi7: you wrote above “A more likely scenario imho is that if Scotland vote to leave the UK, then the UK, NI and the EU would have to negotiate how NI migrates from being a dependent, unwanted and unloved part of the UK, to a likely dependent, unwanted and unloved state in the EU. That’s the likely outcome imho.”

    I must admit that that thought never occurred to me. You actually think that NI could become an independent state? Like Scotland? NI becoming such a separate independent state, eligible for EU membership, seems to me to be very unlikely for the following reasons.

    Northern Ireland was created as a homeland for ethnic British “loyalists” whose ancestors had been transplanted there as colonists and who in 1922 feared being submerged into an Irish Catholic state. Unfortunately history has proven that they may have had a point.

    However, it is clear that this distinct ethnic group never aspired to independent statehood, merely for a continued union with Britain, even describing themselves as “loyalists” and “unionists”. Britain could see no way out other than bowing to their belligerent “loyalty”.

    This determined “loyalty” and “unionism” precludes an independent state. Besides, the EU and the international community generally, would see the creation of such a state as opening the way for a plethora of ethnic Russian states all along the western border of the former Soviet Union e.g. with Latvia and the Ukraine. Maintaining its internal integrity is an EU priority after Brexit.

    It is one thing for a colonial power to retain territory but quite another for it to seek international recognition for a special-purpose state created merely as a safe haven for that colonial power’s former colonising personnel.

    The idea therefore of a newly-created Northern Ireland state being recognised as a legitimate applicant for membership by the EU is a non-starter. Even Scotland will have an uphill battle if it opts for that route.

    As for the Irish Republic’s electorate voting to rescue six sickly counties from British colonial mismanagement: that is also very unlikely, at least not without a negotiated long-term subvention from the British Treasury to mitigate its long-time mismanagement of its long-term Northern Ireland colony. A hard border seems much more likely. The British are unlikely to admit their mistakes.

    • AlfieMoone

      Pat Flannery: At some stage you are going to have to find a new accommodation with present reality and stop living in the past with your irrelevant model of the ‘British’ consisiting of The English, Welsh, Scots & Norn Irish: that is absolutely over after Brexit.

      As Commander of the Starship Diaspora I have issued orders to Starfleet Dail Commander Kenny to seek sanctuary for Norn Iron, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland as a confederated Axis of Eejitry under an EU/US/UN Peace Protectorate Mandate which will allow the Celtic Whinge Fringe to argue amongst themselves and with their ‘exiled American sons and daughters’ and ‘gallant EUropean Union allies’ without having to waste oxygen venting about ‘yonder Saxon Foe’ also known as The English.

      Give Ireland Back To The Irish-Paul McCartney
      England For The English-Morrissey.

      Northern Ireland identity politics are umbilically linked to Scotland, not to England. Once the Scots piss off or are expelled by The English ad Welsh for being too annoying, then the only logical home for Northern Ireland is in the EU or a unified Ireland, certainly NOT within the new post-Brexit Core UK configuration of England and Wales.

      Stop talking about ‘Britain’ as that’s a geographical entity, it’s an island. The historic United Kingdom of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland is dead as a dodo, killed off by the Brexit referendum outcomes. Most people are still in denial and that’s understandable. It’s epochal so it’s going to take a while for ordinary people to get up to speed with Thought-Leaders such as our Supreme Leader Andy Mooney whose cognitions I am channeling here as his faithful servant.

      ‘It is one thing for a colonial power to retain territory but quite another for it to seek international recognition for a special-purpose state created merely as a safe haven for that colonial power’s former colonising personnel.’

      The above sentence is complete gibberish.

      The idiots running the EU will be delighted to take on the Axis of Eejitry once the current UK leaves their nest of vipers. They were obsessed with getting their hands on Iceland, trust me, they will do almost anything to expand their EUtopian EUropean Empire to the north-west fringes of Europa.

      I do not think Nicola Sturgeon would remain calm if she read your claim that ‘the EU and the international community generally, would see the creation of such a state as opening the way for a plethora of ethnic Russian states all along the western border of the former Soviet Union e.g. with Latvia and the Ukraine. Maintaining its internal integrity is an EU priority after Brexit.’ There is fuck all the EU can do to stop England and Wales ensuring the current iteration of the UK leaves the EU. Nor can they stop The Scots from illegally adopting the Euro if they secede from the UK without ensuring a safe passage back into the EU.

      As usual you end by reverting to type with your absurd Irish Victim Scropt, blaming some mythical ‘Brits’ for the dysfunctionalities of Northern Ireland when the ‘Irish’ are just as co-dependantly responsible. As for ‘The English’: they only ever put up with Northern Ireland as part of the pained process of bedding Scotland into a United Kingdom. After 300 years, truculent SNP opportunists have finally banjaxed that process so The English want the Scottish and Northern Irish OUT of the United Kingdom. It’s all very diplomatic at the moment but anyone with a brain can read the tea-leaves.

      Finally, Scotland is not a united polity. If the SNP ever were to win an independence referendum, there would be jigs danced on the streets of Birmingham but not on The Golden Mile. It’s likely the North Britons who live in the Lothians would secede from an independent Scotland back to England or move their banking business en masse to Berwick-on-Tweed leaving the Celtic hoops crew to bond over a few scoops with their new bedmates in the Axis of Eejitry.

      Do not assume that either/both The Orkneys and The Shetlands would also remain within an independent Scotland. It’s far more likely they’d both either seek independence or re-entry into the new Core UK alongside England and Wales. Thus the post-Brexit Archipelago Political landscape shapes up.

      I know this is all cutting-edge and hard for you to digest. You won’t see this in the newspapers for a few months. We’re on the leading edge of thought as we are a channeled entity via Zozo. But, y’know, it’s food for thought as you lie down and take a head-ache tablet to manage your cognitive dissonance over how Brexit destroys the ‘Britain’ of your historical Irish Victim-Script fantasy landscape.

      Laters!
      Alfie

  27. Pat Flannery

    AlfieMoone: it is a matter of total indifference to me what name you call yourselves, or your island.

    • Said with a smile, of course, Pat {:-)

    • AlfieMoone

      It is not ‘our’ island. It is a shared island space, shared between 3 nations, multiple counties and several emergent city-states.

      Given your bizarre psychological obsession with an imaginary ‘British’ construct which you constantly reference to justify your excuses for Irish cultural and political failure, it’s highly improbable that your ‘indifference’ is anything more than yet another petulant sulk. You have no answers to my challenges other than resorting to a ludicrous anachronistic Victim Script whereby Ireland is a hero, the United States supports rather than exploits Irish people and where the ‘gallant EUropean allies’ actually give a fcuk about the Republic of Ireland beyond subjecting them to Odious Debt to recoup their gambling losses in the wild west casinos of the IFSC.

      Your barely concealed jealousy and rage against the ‘British’ is hilarious but sad. I feel your pain! But we sent President Barack O’Bama & his eejity friend Enda Kenny packing by voting Leave, they scarpered in shock with their tales between their legs. Next up The English and Welsh tell the Scottish and Norn Irish to sort themselves out or piss off out of the UK. And, most pricelessly of all, we stuck it to the Norman Toraigh Whores in both London and Dublin with their snide, sleveen gaming of the Nation State, throwing out Green Jerseys & Union Flags whilst they raped the population’s tax base. That nonsense is over. They will soon learn that London is not England and Dublin is not Ireland. And if I was sitting on my expense-account arse in the Dail or Sinead I’d be very, very scared that the ‘culchies’ from Cork to Cavan will also wake up and smell the Globalist coffee, looking across the sea to ‘yonder Saxon foe’ in astonished admiration as they too plot how to escape the straight-jacket of the EU-US strangulation of the Irish Nation State: before it’s too late….

      I’m both an English Natioalist and an Irish Nationalist. Because I am the cultural Taoiseach of the Shire Irish and the Birmingham Irish and we are hybrid, we are ‘even better than the real thing’ and, by voting for Brexit, we have given our ancestral friends one last chance to rise up against their Globalist overlords in D4 and the IFSC and ‘Take Back Control’ of their country. The Ireland island born or based ‘Irish’ no longer control the Narrative of what it means to be ‘Irish in the C21st’. I do. They can have their trite banal tourist kerching!-athons like The Gathering, Riverdance and The Wild Atlantic Way. Their business model is pathetic: expel young talent during economic crises then sell them tourist tat trips back to replenish the coffers. Other than that, it’s mainly agriculture and Tax Whoring. Some Centenary!

      The Global Irish Diaspora isn’t just another resource for the inept and venal gombeens to exploit on their terms. In a century where there is mass immigration, emmigration, waves of refugees and displaced, it is essential that the truth about Irish History is finally told by those who left, not those who stayed and played the Irish Establishment game of tugging the green forelock and pretending that 1916 actually changed anything of significance. It didn’t. No doubt other Diasporas will also have to mount a challenge to the hijackig of their Narrative by the regimes they had to flee and also come to realise that the ‘homecoming’ is often just another line on a spreadsheet profitability model.

      You will no doubt claim either to have not read this comment or not care but you clearly do. But you are not the audience. You are lost in an amnesiac fog but the younger generation are awake and alert to all these betrayals. Whether by reading this or by meeting me in Dublin, Laois, Kilkenny, Limerick and Cork they do not react with anger or aggression when I explain my radical take on all this. They express gratitude for finally having the sources of their existential angst named and delineated. You may not like it. I’m sure Enda Kenny and the rest are totally pissed off with David McWilliams for allowing me to do this but the host of this blog isn’t an idiot. He knows that if he bans me he sentences himself to eternal ignominy. I do not need anyone’s approval, endorsement or praise as I already have it from the graves of those who tried and failed to save Ireland over centuries.

      When I write that I met Michael Collins at a crossroads in Cork at midnight on Saturday, some will realise the Delta deal with the Devil connection I am making. And what I am therefore implying ‘going forward’. It may seem insane, ridiculous and impossible to you but I am calmly announcing on this blog that I Am The Voice Of Ireland In The 21st Century. Does anyone seriously imagine David McWilliams or anyone else is going to step in to the ring and challenge me? How long do you think anyone would last? A round? Possibly, if they were on their best form. This isn’t delusional arrogance, this is the harvest of decades or quiet cogitation and study in my sanctuary here in the Saxon Shires, close by the Severn river where St Patrick was enslaved by heathen Irish.

      In a world where The Globalist is trying to destroy the Nation State and where the flower of Ireland’s youth are periodically banished into exile by the supposed guardians of the legacy of 1916, it is entirely apposite and appropriate that the challenge to their fake Soldiers of Destiny scam should surface amidst ‘Yonder Saxon foe’, from within the belly of the beast that is Birmingham.

      If anyone reading this blog wants to argue against my authority and Narrative supremacy in all this: come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough. But be in no doubt that I offer No Quarter and I will take on anybody who dares defend the myriad betrayals of the flawed, thwarted dream of Irish Freedom that morphed into the post-1916 nightmare which has continued for a century.

      Brexit is an epochal opportunity to unite the tribes of the island of Ireland and to make the ‘gallant EUro allies’ pay the bill for unification as a token payback for the banjaxing of the island of Ireland due to the bailout of the EU’s ECB banking system.

      I am the Taoiseach Starship Commander of the space-time reality matrix known as ‘Ireland’ and I now command my crew to set the engines to turbo thrust and enter warp factor towards a United Ireland via Brexit:

      MAKE IT SO!

      Captain Alfie Moone
      of the Shire-Irish Starship Enterprise.

      ps: I’ve done it without firing a shot. Without being holed up in the GPO for a week then with civilian hostages in tenements on Moore Street. I did it simply by typing words onto a screen for the Pen is indeed mightier than the Sword…in a parallel dimension, James Connolly and Michael Collins gather around a laptop screen and read these words. And they look at each other, smile and Laugh Out Loud at the audacity of The King Of Laois and Small Heath and chant and sing in unison: “The real Plastic Paddies are sitting in the Dail!”

      Music: Trad
      Words: Andy Mooney

      ‘Peaky Paddy Blinder: The King Of Laois & Small Heath’

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSUWR9w1gRk

      • Very enjoyable Andy and thanks to Pat for input, without which all this would not have been possible….

        • AlfieMoone

          The Axis Of Eejitry/Confederacy Of Dunces is taking shape just as I promised Micheal Collins on Saturday night…..

          3 minutes ago

          #MakeItSo!

          @EndaKennyTD @MichealMartinTD @GerryAdamsSF @M_McGuinness_SF @davidmcw @declanganley @fotoole @RuthDE

          ‘Fintan O’Toole: Three-state union may be answer to Brexit’

          http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-three-state-union-may-be-answer-to-brexit-1.2734041

          • AlfieMoone

            Welcome to The Axis of Eejitry aka The Confederacy Of Dunces. God help Ireland once The Borderer mentality takes over and runs the place….again!

            Michael Collins begged me on Saturday night:

            “Andy! Stop them! We made a mistake! It all made sense from our vantage point and perspective in 1916 but the nightmare replaced the dream…Stop them Andy! Save Ireland…nobody else can…I’m depending on you, BrummieBoy! Why didn’t Pearse warn us? He was raised in Birmingham!!!”

            “Your round, Big Fellah…then I’ll tell you more on the US ‘special relationship’ with Ireland and Scotland and how and why it’s different to the ‘special reationship’ with England. We call it ‘divide & rule’….and how Ireland came to surrender the Punt for the Euro…at the behest of America…”

            “Looking back, it is hard to believe such a motley swarm of border Celts as arrived in America could accomplish all that. They certainly appeared unlikely candidates when they began migrating here during the first 75 years of the 18th century. So unsavory were their habits that even fellow Calvinists, the New England Puritans, did not much accept them. The East Anglican followers of Cotton Mather’s brand of Calvinism were less than enamored with the Borderer practice of drinking in church and their low hygienic standards. Eventually the Borderers found themselves once more (where else?) on another border. This time it was the border of civilization, the frontiers of British North American holdings in Pennsylvania. True to form, they were exactly where they were not supposed to be — tilling soil and killing Indians west of the Allegheny Mountains against King George II’s prohibition.”

            http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Bageant0126.htm

        • AlfieMoone

          Tony, you’re welcome & yes, thanks to Pat for lighting the fuse….LOL!

          Warning: Comments may contain Irony & Hyperbole

          [don't try this at home kids, this high-wire act is only for really serious psycho-linguistic acrobats of which Andy Mooney is deffo, easily The Greatest]

      • Pat Flannery

        So, Starship Commander Moone you ‘’sent Barack O’Bama and his eejity friend Enda Kenny packing with their ’tales’ between their legs’’ did you? And you met Michael Collins at a crossroads in Cork at midnight on Saturday did you?

        No more Comedy Central for me, the best ‘’tales’’ are right here on David’s blog. Can’t wait for the next episode. Seriously though, have you thought about writing a TV series? You should you know. This is great stuff.

        • AlfieMoone

          Glad you see the humour in it, Pat! Rest assured I find great value in your provocations whether their intentional or not. It’s pointless taking part in thse blog thingies if everyone’s just going to kiss David’s ass and agree with everything he says. Leave that to his celebrity economist cohort fan club at Kilkenomics….*popcorn*

          We live in such perilous times that the only way to stay sane is to flick the switch between Captain Sensible and Sergeant Crazy, sometimes within a sentence.

          I had the wildest weekend in Cork city. If I could live on the island of Ireland I would but I can’t so…whenever I go it’s really epic and intense but the ProdiJig ‘Revolution’ show at Cork Opera House plus Brexit banshee wailing relatives made this trip especially memorable. T.V series? It’s actually going to be a stage show, that’s why I went to Cork to see Alan Kennefick’s new show to research ‘competition’. No contest. He’s great but I’m a bona-fide genius as yu will all see in the years to come….isn’t that right Big Fellah? Get me another pint and I’ll tell you more about what’s happened since you were shot by those bastards…..

          ProdiJIG – The Revolution – Cork Opera House 2016

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDT1MF69_cs

          • I just had a revelation for the origins of the unique American Tap Dancing.

            The Irish Dance and Jig.

          • When Scotland skedaddles Newcastle and Carlisle will become fortress towns once again. The Connecting Hadrian’s wall will be rebuilt by The Donald and the Scots forced to pay for it. The costs to build should be reasonable as the roman footings are still soundly in place as is the plan and general blueprints.

            All Border Reivers will be vetted before being allowed to cross the border but only if they can prove a benefit to England by being allowed transit.

            Corstopitum and Vinderlander will become garrison towns once again as they were during roman rule. It will be a benighted place as by all accounts it was warmer 1900 years ago there than it is today.

            Invasions from Norseland and the Baltic sea tribes can be expected to regain the intensity last experienced a 1000 years ago.

            Back to the future!!!

          • AlfieMoone

            Tony Brogan: ProdiJig’s Revolution show references the Roaring 20s jazz-tastic fusion of Irish dance and black culture, in fact, that’s the show’s defining motif..

            Hadrian’s Wall? It was an almost mystical symmetry that had The Donald arrive on his Scottish golf-course the morning Brexit was declared as The Future. It was also the past:

            ‘Drink, Pray, Fight, Fuck
            The Borderer Legacy Haunts America’

            by Joe Bageant

            sadly, it looks as if the snake-oil of the Kenny/Sturgeon/Fintan Axis of Eejitry aka: #SCINI means it’s also The Future.

            Scotexit & NornIron most likely will NOT be calm & peaceful like Brexit if history’s any guide. It doesn’t repeat but Twain was right, it rhymes….England needs to get da fcUK out of this before it all blows sky-high…

            “I have seen The Future. Brother, it is MURDER!” Leonard Cohen

            To any sane Norn Iron folk reading this: be very, very careful before you jump back into bed with the Borderers without the English to restrain the excesses. Don’t think the Germans will be able to control events, they will just try and impose their culture with absolutely catastrophic consequences.

            ‘In understanding how such ominous political ideations manifested themselves in this country, it helps to look back 450 years to a group of Celtic cattle thieves killing one another in the mud along Hadrian’s Wall — the Borderers. Fanatically religious and war loving, these Scottish Protestants made their way first to Ireland as the Ulster Scots,then to American shores during the early 18th century. Known to most Americans as the Scots Irish or Scotch Irish, the Borderers brought cultural values that govern (some would say screw up) the political emotions of millions of Americans to this day.

            Nearly a third of Americans have Borderer ancestors, though they know little about them, if they know anything at all. Even informed people generally know zilch about the influence this culture continues to exert on America, although that may be about to change somewhat with the current spate of hagiographic Scots Irish books. One is James Webbs Born Fighting, wherein all that is good in America is attributed to Scots Irish willingness to make war. This is quite in tandem with our self-justifying national storyline. Americans have always described themselves in Borderer terms and values, such as fierce, liberty loving, individualistic, freely religious, and fighting to defend our way of life. With the neo-conservative takeover of American politics, this has intensified, and we see a supercharging of these themes in the forms of fanatical religiosity, hatred of government, bellicose piety, and in a new twist, the technological fist of Jesus smiting the swarthy godless heathen in the name of a crude-oil-stained flag.’

            http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Bageant0126.htm

  28. https://hubertmoolman.wordpress.com/2016/07/26/silver-price-forecast-silver-is-insurance-against-the-worst-part-of-this-depression/

    “”The worst part of the world’s ongoing financial crisis is still on the way: A crisis that has its roots in the debt- based monetary system. The debt-based monetary system has facilitated the growth of debt, to levels that will inevitably bring total collapse.”"

    • McCawber

      I asked you why do the CBs charge interest and you left me to figure it out for myself.
      The governments or Official Everyone are using their CBs to cream another x.y% off the system.
      This is killing the goose (geese) that are laying the golden eggs
      It has been going on for a long time and has been very cleverly disguised as target inflation is 2%.

      If you want to hide something leave it right out under people’s noses where they can’t see it.
      Some what they’re doing, leave it to the
      To which I reply – well no they actuallysave us .

      • McCawber

        Bloody phone.
        To which I reply – Well actually no they didn’t save us.
        Bottom line 2% per annum is a lot of cream.
        Official Everyone are effective destroying the wealth that should be created by our phenomenal rate of technology productivity increases.
        Good night.
        DATA is the future but in our future he won’t be unique.
        Sangrila – sweet dreams.

    • Daithi7

      Hmmm yeah, the only thing about all this debt business, is that the world overall is definitely debt neutral. I.e. All these countries, companies and individuals owe their debts to someone or something I.e
      for every debtor there is a creditor, so in one sense, Big Deal.

      • not in the case of the money system.

        Normally someone has to lend an asset to another to create a debt. getting this asset returned is a concern and so care is taken to lend to someone likely to if not guaranteed to be able to return the asset.

        In the case of the banks , they do not own the asset loaned as it does not exist at all until a notation of the loan is made.
        The bank lends you some money that it creates out of thin air.
        In essence it pretends to own what it lends to you. it write an account in a Ledger saying you own the money and saying that the loan is an asset of the bank. The bank charges interest on all these loans made this way.

        The money is created out of thin air, loaned as a debt and issued to you as a loan. This newly created money is a debt and the interest you pay has to be earned by you and deducted from your toil and strife.

        97% of all money is created this way. As the money supply is largely expanded by this method of lending what does not exist the indebtedness expands at the same rate as the money supply. this is the current fiat money.

        Honest money in the form of coin has to be made by toil and sweat. Metal coined and the coin issued in exchange for good and services. Once it is in existence and issued there is no debt or interest charged. it is not an IOU. It is owned outright free and clear.

        Alternatively the government could issue paper money into existence just as fiat money is but there would be no debt and it would not be loaned into existence.

        The current debt issued fiat money pays interest to the issuing bank. There is no real limit on how much they can issue as the process is legal. It is simply a scam being fosters on to all the peoples of the world.

        National debts are a fraud as a country can issue its own currency to fund its operations. The is no requirement to have a central bank be given a monopoly to issue money , let alone as a debt.

        We are fooled and defrauded.

        • Daithi7

          Hmmm ok, but still every debtor had a creditor on this planet, so we are as a race debt neutral :)

          So as long as the debts are affordable, there should be no real issue, right?!

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