July 18, 2016

What drives France’s outsiders to Le Pen

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 63 comments ·
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Will the terrorist attack in France affect the outcome of the next French presidential election? Will the average French person be swayed by the atrocity to vote for Marine Le Pen as the only candidate who will “stand up” to terrorism? My sense is that, as with Brexit, the mainstream media is misjudging the electorate. The central media position on Le Pen is that while the National Front will do well in the first round of the election – as a sort of protest vote – when push comes to shove, French people will see sense and vote for the centrist candidate.

This is precisely the logic that led the mainstream to call Brexit so wrong and indeed, led the mainstream media in the US to predict that Donald Trump was a joke and that his reality-TV assault on the Republican high ground would have petered out by last Christmas.

In France, the sense that the common man is being left behind is very real and, as in Britain, this cohort of people whose vote has always been always “assumed” by the centrist Right or centrist Left is now up for grabs. Marine Le Pen wants to grab it on a platform of making France great again, by pulling out of the euro and curbing immigration.

Sound familiar?

The establishment reacts to floating voters by patronising them and if they indicate that they may vote for a candidate such as Le Pen, they are lampooned as being racist, out of touch or backward.

However, in this article, I am going to show you the economic evidence that is driving the guy in the middle, not just in France but everywhere in the West to the extremes.

The first thing to know is that the plight of the middle in France is real.

Firstly, traditionally rich societies like France didn’t recover as quickly as other OECD countries from the 2008 crash.

France has only just brought its per-capita GDP figure back to where it was at the start of 2007, while the OECD average has grown by about as tenth. France is getting relatively poorer than the rest.

Obviously, if the country is getting relatively poorer, social services, employment opportunities and peoples’ general contentment with the status quo diminishes.

But something else is happening in France. Personal incomes in France are lagging way behind. This implies that while French corporations might be recovering (and they are some of the best-run corporations in the world), the share French workers are getting out of this recovery is falling.

As French GDP personal incomes have fallen well behind, the average French worker is seeing his/her living standards falling behind and that is how you can, possibly paradoxically, feel poor in a rich country. Madame Le Pen is benefitting from this in the polls.

Let’s examine the politics of this dilemma. What is it like to feel poor in a rich country? What does it feel like to have no stake?

An interesting and novel way of looking at European politics – the politics of mature, wealthy, deeply democratic societies – is not through the prism of left versus right, rich versus poor, urban versus rural, Christian versus Muslim, conservative versus liberal or young versus old or whatever other face-off that we like to talk about. The real divide in mature democracies like France is between Insiders and Outsiders.

The Insiders are those literally ‘on the inside’. They are the people with influence, with a voice at the table, those with a stake in the society. Insiders can either be on the left or the right. They can be traditional public sector trade unions in France who want no reform or they can be bank bosses in Italy who want a bailout. Their game plan is to gouge the state and extract as much rent as possible for their members and interests. Insiders are organised. They are part of the process of politics and their concerns are listened to by the state. In short, they have access to power and can influence the way it is deployed.

In a crisis, when growth disappears, the Insiders redefine their strategy and go into self-preservation mode. The Insiders’ main objective is to make sure their members’ interests are protected from the slowdown in growth and that they get as big a share of the dwindling income pie as possible.

Interestingly, the Insiders on the traditional Left and conservative Right join forces to pass on the costs of recession to the Outsiders. This is why you see the statist left and the corporatist right in power in France, Italy and Spain. Sure, they might speak the language of left and right, and ham up their ideological differences for the audience, but essentially, they are both in the business of preservation.

The Outsiders in contrast, are those with no one to speak up for them. They have no stake in the political process and are thus on the outside. They are the self-employed small business-person, the contract worker, the hard-working immigrant, the unemployed and, of course, the young. They are outside the tent, beyond the process and because they are not organised, their concerns are never felt. They too can be on the left and on the right. The small rural French shopkeeper could well have traditionally conservative instincts, while the twentysomething Parisian contract worker could well be liberal to her core, but they are both Outsiders. Neither has a real stake in society; neither has a voice.

What they do have is a vote – as we saw in Brexit.

Because the Outsiders are, by definition, not organised and rarely speak with one voice, in challenging times they are represented by unconventional parties who mix the rhetoric of the excluded with the tribal comfort blanket of the nation; who offer the elixir of low taxes, with the promise of economic growth; who tell them that there are easy fixes.

More than anything, these parties have identified that the mainstream, traditional parties are in cahoots, trying to maintain a status quo, which is simply serving to featherbed the Insiders.

This is fertile ground for Marine Le Pen. It is not that the vast majority of the people who vote for her are racist – they are Outsiders. They look at the aristocracy perpetuated by the grandes écoles which dominate French politics and business, or the untouchable unions such as the air traffic controllers who strike with impunity and they see Insiders who run the country.

When there is an atrocity like the horrible mass murder in Nice, people get angry and scared and look to someone who will protect them. They look to the Insiders and see more of the same. In this context, voting for an Outsider makes eminent sense.


  1. michaelcoughlan

    Morning all.

  2. McCawber

    Voting for the outsider is to extent a case of “be careful what you wish for”
    1. Our electorate handed us a very weak hand by voting in a hog tied government.
    God knows what compromises will be made but it will all cost money.
    Fiscal space my ar$e.
    2. Brexit – your guess is as good as mine.
    3. Hollande out for sure, however France has squandered the opportunity QE gave it.
    ATC strikes is symbolic of the problems they have.
    The electorates of most of the western world are unhappy and that means unpredictable outcomes.
    France – A nation of people who are not afraid to express themselves so David has asked the right question.
    Meanwhile of far more import – The Donald towers over his opponent. Pun intended.

  3. Onda

    For the majority of the article, replace France with Ireland

    • CitizenWhy

      + And replace France with Insiders” Northeast down to DC, excluding western PA. Pacific West. Military/Defense/Intelligence/Police everywhere. Outsiders: Midwest.

  4. There is still no examination of the banking system and who runs it and why all money is issued as a debt. Those who issue the script and those closest to the issuer are the insiders and the rest outsiders. The gap widens. Meanwhile this issue is never addressed. All else is incidental. It matters not which country is examined, this is a world wide problem .

    • michaelcoughlan

      Jesus Tony.

      You never give up.

      Michael.

      • Mike Lucey

        Tony never gives up because what he is saying is that the problem can be easily fixed by going back to real money yet its not even on the table for discussion as the ‘powers that be’ won’t allow public discussion because if they did it would be quite obvious that ‘the emperor has no cloths’ and all hell would break loose but the end result would be the reintroduction of a fair and honest system.

      • Antaine

        And fair play to him for never giving up. I’m no expert on the money system and the creation of money but I’ve read a bit on it and from what I’ve read money can be a root of evil.
        An elderly man once informed me of a book called ‘Money’ by a Sociology professor from Cork, Alfred O Rahilly. It was published years ago. He equates a lot of societies ills to the Money system.
        It needs to be investigated. To not do so is tantamount to accepting that all is well in the world when it is clearly not.

        • AlfieMoone

          If we’re going to discuss money creation, debt & interest in the context of the Islamist attack on Nice, at least try & discuss Zikat/Islamic Finance.

          London is a key world centre of Islamic finance. Just one more reason why so many Muslim migrants/refugees/emmigrants will do almost anything to get to the UK from the ‘jungle’ camp in Calais.

          One lone nutter shoots a UK Labour MP & the hysterical Outragetarian media insist there’s a huge extremist issue but that’s nonsense. Anyone who’s spent time in France knows just how visceral the hostility towards Muslims is & how the colonial hangover of If we’re going to discuss money creation, debt & interest in the context of the Islamist attack on Nice, at least try & discuss Zikat/Islamic Finance.

          London is a key world centre of Islamic finance. Just one more reason why so many Muslim migrants/refugees/emmigrants will do almost anything to get to the UK from the ‘jungle’ camp in Calais.

          One lone nutter shoots a UK Labour MP & the hysterical Outragetarian media insist there’s a huge extremist issue but that’s nonsense. Anyone who’s spent time in France knows just how visceral the hostility towards Muslims is & how the colonial hangover of French North African escapades poisons the present.

          ‘Social justice, fairness play essential roles in Islamic finances’

          http://www.cctv-america.com/2016/07/04/social-justice-fairness-play-essential-roles-in-islamic-finances

          • AlfieMoone

            Time to read ‘L’Etranger’ by Camus again. Nice evening, will only take a couple of hours. I’ll walk to the riverbank with some French bread & wine. It’s so hot, not really able to bash the anvil in the Jargon Factory today, but this article is a lulz-fest of victimology politics. Blame Us-uk-Israel for ISIS because: IMPERIALISM! Etc. Love this sentence, it’s full-on WTF!

            ‘resolving the neurosis such enslavement brings to the colonized. The neurosis the dynamic of imperialism creates for the occupier is likewise only resolved when the colonies are truly liberated and all involved exist in an economic and cultural equanimity. ‘

            ‘Meursault and the Sickness of Imperialism’

            http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/01/miersault-and-the-sickness-of-imperialism/

          • We are not discussing Islam but insiders and outsiders. The one thousandth of 1% possessed of power, money and control and the rest devoid of the above but still possessing a vote.

            Islamic countries seem to have wealth as disproportionate as western countries. Nearly all or 99% have a central banking system too. Those that don’t get invaded by NATO!!!!

      • Why would I give up? It is a fundamental tenet of the cause of the discrepancy in the wealth of the .ooo1% and the rest who get poorer by the day. All the other discussions are relatively irrelevant. It is the cause of the rise of Le Pen, Trump, Saunders, and the separation movements in a dozen other countries. Don’t you get it!!

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        +1 ;-)

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          I would not say though that all other discussions are relatively irrelevant.
          In that I would agree with Michael – his comment brought so much needed smile to my face.
          Think of this: central banking and securitisation that Pat Flannery was writing about are also signs of Byzantine civilisation, with its believe that the state will solve our problems and aversion to risk.

          • “I would not say though that all other discussions are relatively irrelevant.”

            If you put that fine intellectual brain of yours to work on the subject, you would come to the realization that all other solutions to economic and social problems have the root cause in our distorted money system. Do not divert yourself from the examination of how our money is created and by whom.

          • “In that I would agree with Michael”

            What did Michael say that you agree with? Specifically.
            You imply that I must shut up and sit down or go away while everyone else can pontificate??

            The truth is nobody will go there least of all David. As I have said before , if he does he is likely to get fired from the MSM commentary columns that he writes. TPTB do not want the truth exposed to the public.

            David is a good writer and his first love is acting which he is also good at. Just my opinion. He never discusses the production of money and how it is always loaned into existence and charged at interest. Never mentioned is that all the money jettisoned into the economy is also adding to the debt load at the same rate.
            Never asked is why we have such a money system.

            Never pointed out that it started in the modern era with funding the infamous King Billy and the formation of the Bank of England in 1694. It Was consolidated in 1913 with the formation of the federal Reserve in USA.

            Central bankers issue the reserves to commercial banks who, employing the concept of fractional reserve banking lend out 10-30 times, newly created money, than the deposit held.

            Thus 97% of all money is issued as a debt. The banks earn interest on all this fictitious newly created money. The interest is drained off the real economy and so the money supply must be constantly expanded just to maintain economic parity. today with a grand showing of the law of diminishing returns there is no economic response to the production of vast volumes of new money. In fact the economy continues to subside to oblivion.

            This is why there will be a giant reset to a new form of money. Just hope it is honest money and not more of the worthless Ponzi scheme cash we have a present.

            Still, it is a good blog and I appreciate that.

          • McCawber

            @Tony.
            You need to address the other side of the equation.
            New money x Leverage Factor = Money borrowed by whom and for what.
            The by whom and for what is also part of the problem.
            Basically nobody is in charge of the zoo, not even the monkeys.
            There are organ grinders but they are uncontactable and are choosing to remain so, which only leaves the monkey.
            Based on that who exactly is going to create the honest money system you rightly state is needed.
            Whoever it is bettered have a lot of gold bullion????

          • to McCawber

            Sorry but you will have to be totally specific as I am unable to follow exactly what you want to know.

            except
            “Based on that who exactly is going to create the honest money system you rightly state is needed.”

            There has to be education of the people as to how the money system works at present. Nobody knows. When the information is available to the public then they will decide, just like a Brexit vote. An individual cannot succeed as assassination is used. The people must be made aware and then the system will right itself.

            huge amounts of gold or silver are not needed. There is always enough. coin can be issued based on the premise adopted by HSP.

            Here is an essay on the subject .
            http://www.tonybrogan.com/?p=25

          • To McCawber (2)

            The second answer to who is going to provide honest money. Perhaps China aided by Russia.

            They accumulate gold for a reason currently undisclosed.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            “What did Michael say that you agree with? Specifically.
            You imply that I must shut up and sit down or go away while everyone else can pontificate??”

            Tony, I did not imply that at all – thanks to your comments I am having a look at lots of links I would not have time to find myself, or I simply would not know those pages exist.

            Specifically I agree with Michael that everything has to be taken in the wider context. Yes, I would agree with you that the vast majority of our economic problems boil down, directly or indirectly, to a problem of money being created into existence as debt; however, to answer why this has been happening requires addressing aspects other than economic.

            By the way, any chance of you and Pat Flannery getting back to that debate about securitisation? It was a fine debate – I did not jump in because I was busy and afraid that, as it often happens, what I plan as a 10 min comment would turn into 40 min comment and me not eating lunch a g a i n due to my compulsion to address all possible aspects.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          “David is a good writer and his first love is acting which he is also good at.”

          No way, are you serious?????!!!!!!

          Because I had a lot to do with the theatre environment (I even briefly knew Ms Ruth Negga), both in Poland and here, and there is a book on avant-garde theatre published this year with my contributions.

          • David is a presenter on film, stage, TV and paper. Next time you are able to, take a critical look at the performance. What you see presented on his face is not necessarily what is on his mind.

            I am not dissing David, it is his modus operandi. He is effective.

    • McCawber

      Eureka moment.
      I haven’t being paying attention.
      “Why is all the money issued as debt” Now therein lies the can of worms.
      Governments of the past printed money themselves and presumably spent the newly printed money, which was why too much (maybe any) of it was a bad thing.
      SO why is QE being issued as debt. Why not just give it straight to the people (or even worse to governments), boost spending (demand), thus increasing inflation.
      Increasing inflation (demand) to 2% per annum is what they “say” they are trying to achieve. Is that even the truth and if not what is the true reason.
      So why issue it as debt and who actually holds that debt.
      Yeah actually who actually holds that that debt? Who owns the ECB or the FED and who is creaming off the top.
      Tony you need to get into the semantics for a bit.
      Give us a bit more cause and effect and background to the whys and wherefores.
      I’m all ears. Idiot level (hard work, I know) explanation would certainly be acceptable in the short term.

      @Michael, sorry but that’s exactly the comment Official Everyone wants to hear.
      You must ask questions (be rhetorical so to speak), which might steer the information gaining process, because even if you get it maybe others (moi) haven’t.

      • Mike Lucey

        @McCawber

        I am sure Tony will explain the matter far better that I could ever.

        However in my case the penny dropped about 5 years ago when I studied the current financial system I did not believe what I was reading / seeing.

        The bottom line for me is that ‘money’ should represent ‘work’. Money came into existence as a convenient trading ‘token’ for ‘work’. This is not that case any longer and has been such for at least 100 years or so when the ‘powers that be’ figured out and implemented the current system to gain absolute control.

        I found Mike Moloney’s videos very helpful in gaining an alternative perspective. https://goldsilver.com/knowledge-center/videos/

      • CitizenWhy

        President Lincoln financed the US Civil War by printing money and buying what was needed without debt. The increase in spending throughout teh north caused great economic growth and widespread prosperity. But then DC “grew up” and focused on “fiscal responsibility/austerity.”

        • Lincoln was murdered as was Kennedy for the same reason. both were defying the bankers and issuing script from treasury based on the faith and credit of the country or silver in Kennedy’s case.
          The bankers wanted to lend to Lincoln at interest and Kennedy was about to issue treasury bills backed by silver in competition to the debt based FED notes.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Tony,
            You might be interested in this:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Kennedy_coincidences_urban_legend

            I am not saying that it should be taken entirely seriously, but since you mentioned Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy, it is a good entertainment.

            Google says it is 25 degree Celsius (77 degree Fahrenheit), but it feels more like 30 and I have to be in a f…g suit. Even the Judge is in a bad mood today and said ‘what gives you the right to behave like that’ to a girl that was doing nothing except for fidgeting and smiling (the air con works the same way as Dublin Bus).

            So not in a mood or mental capacity for anything serious today

    • CitizenWhy

      A recent NY Times article went into detail on why Congress was afraid to touch HSBC for its obvious crimes. This non-US bank received a huge bailout form the US Federal Reserve bank and Treasury Dept. Among other things, they are deep into the illegal drug trade.

      • Deco

        In other words, when there is another reason to investigate their books, instead, the authorities shy away.

        What has happened to the concept of right and wrong ?

        Do these concepts no longer matter ?

        I presume for those who lost neighbours or family members due to the drugs problem, this must be astounding.

  5. Mike Lucey

    Paul Craig Roberts has an interesting slant on the Nice attack, ‘Nice Brings To Mind Operation Gladio’. http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/07/18/nice-brings-to-mind-operation-gladio/

    I also found it hard to believe that a huge ‘ice cream delivery’ lorry could get by security. Who will the probable end result of something like martial law suit? It won’t be the likes of Marine Le Pen, thats for sure.

  6. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    I agree with everything what David says in his article, so I have nothing to add.

    But because there are, understandably so, many comments about the Nice attack, I would like to say this:

    1. No one from the commentators (that means in Ireland, not only here) noticed that had even one pedestrian have a gun and army training, this tragedy might have been either prevented or limited in size – at the end of the day, the police shoot the driver, but it was ages after the massacre – this is a Byzantine type of civilisation – to count on the state that the state would look after and protect us.

    The LGBT milieu in Orlando sobered down already:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/orlando-nightclub-massacre/lgbt-gun-rights-group-sees-membership-spike-after-orlando-shooting-n594701

    When are the French going to sober down?

    2. President Hollande’s message that we have to learn to live with terrorism is a sign of capitulation. President Hollande, having made France the strictest country on earth in terms of gun ownership, has blood on his hands. This capitulation started before Ms Merkel let in terror into Europe: Europe, rather than supporting V4 in their efforts to control the refugee flow (no one for example was checking their luggage, even though ISIS themselves said they had sent soldiers into Europe), embarked on “Why die for Danzig? (Budapest in this case)” mood.

    3. On July 14, the French were celebrating what they had experienced in Nice:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reign_of_Terror

    If it was not tragic, I would say it is ironic.

    4. The terrorist was French born with Tunisian (and perhaps soon we will not be able to write this), so all that talk about immigration neglects the biggest threat: radical Islam, whether via the so called refugees routes or native. And btw, did you know that with all that talk about radical islam – that none of this is representative to islam – opinion poll in France showed that 90pc of all French Muslims would NOT turn the terrorists to the police?

    5. Nice is Madame Le Pen’s stronghold and it will indubitably spark tensions; also, France has the biggest income from tourism from all countries in the world and this will precipitate the collapse of their economy. All we should do is to allow them to create their superstate based on Carolingian Europe (France/Germany/Benelux) and hope they implement their plan of mini-Schengen (Poland has already brought back border controls with Germany like France had done with Italy before, albeit temporarily).
    This is a chance for relatively safe peripheral countries like Ireland or Eastern EEurope in terms of tourism (already increased number of applications for Polish ppassports from… the British (earlier from the Israelis) – Poland is now considered one of top 10 safest tourist destinations in Europe, and Ireland, tthanks be to God, has imported only 10 refugees to President Higgins chagrin).

    6. I would like to end with an excerpt from the poem ‘Report From The Besieged City’ by Zbigniew Herbert:

    “I am supposed to be exact but I don’t know when the invasion began
    two hundred years ago in December in September perhaps yesterday at dawn
    everyone here suffers from a loss of the sense of time

    all we have left is the place the attachment to the place
    we still rule over the ruins of temples spectres of gardens and houses
    if we lose the ruins nothing will be left

    I write as I can in the rhythm of interminable weeks
    monday: empty storehouses a rat became the unit of currency
    tuesday: the mayor murdered by unknown assailants
    wednesday: negotiations for a cease-fire the enemy has imprisoned our messengers
    we don’t know where they are held that is the place of torture
    thursday: after a stormy meeting a majority of voices rejected
    the motion of the spice merchants for unconditional surrender
    friday: the beginning of the plague saturday: our invincible defender
    N.N. committed suicide sunday: no more water we drove back
    an attack at the eastern gate called the Gate of the Alliance

    all of this is monotonous I know it can’t move anyone

    I avoid any commentary I keep a tight hold on my emotions I write about the facts
    only they it seems are appreciated in foreign markets
    yet with a certain pride I would like to inform the world
    that thanks to the war we have raised a new species of children
    our children don’t like fairy tales they play at killing
    awake and asleep they dream of soup of bread and bones
    just like dogs and cats”

  7. AlfieMoone

    ‘if the common travel area between Ireland and the UK can be retained, then Ireland will be an appealing destination for firms relocating elements of their business from London’

    Ipso facto: CTA will not continue post-Brexit. Not sure what happens when Core UK cuts Corporation tax to 12-15% levels whilst Ireland Inc’s forced to accept EU Federalist Integration/Harmonisation of tax rates across Europa. I guess Enda/Michael will just have to get an opt-out like wot Thatcher got. They’re both of similar mettle to The Iron Ladh,so no worries there, then…..

    http://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/brexit-could-mean-marked-slowdown-in-irish-economy-deutsche-bank-warns-34892565.html

    • CitizenWhy

      Obviously Ireland will have to leave the EU and ask for integrtaion into a devolved Britain, or United Government of England, Northern Ireland and Ireland (UGENII).

    • Pedro Nunez

      +1, maybe the ‘Soldiers of destiny’ can make up for wrecking the country

  8. AlfieMoone

    Me & Enda, hey? Great minds think alike…..LOL!

    ‘Taoiseach Enda Kenny tells EU to prepare for prospect of Northern Ireland joining the Republic’

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/taoiseach-enda-kenny-tells-eu-to-prepare-for-prospect-of-northern-ireland-joining-the-republic-34894210.html

    Brexit offers a chance to conclude the peace process on the island of Ireland by transferring responsibilities from the remaining CoreUK England and Wales to the EU in Brussels & Berlin. I advocate both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland becoming formal EU Peace Protectorates with the new EU army on standby in case things kick off in a few years after some bonfire mayhem.

    It’s no longer tenable for CoreUK England and Wales to remain involved in this process as it perpetuates the narrative of hegemonic historicism which fuels The Irish Victim Script mentality. As to how the various cultural mutations that are in place in Ulster are dealt with? That’s for the EU Peace Corps to sort, it’s no longer any business of Core UK England and Wales who will, in unison, now move forward to create the Second Commonwealth with our post-colonial friends in every single nation which once, like Ireland, was an involuntary Subject of The Realm & The Crown. This time it’s voluntary and the queue is forming already..

    • AlfieMoone

      The Union ‘Jack’ flag will remain an emblem of Unity between England, Wales, Scotland & Northern Ireland, but it will henceforth be a Cultural Affiliation Flag, not a Political & Economic Union Flag. It should make for some interesting sporting tournaments. And the biggest one of all is whether the Welsh have played a prescient hand by voting #Leave, or if they’ll be begging to re-join the Celtic Whinge Fringe when the EU becomes the global powerhouse it must surely become once the minor annoyances of the Euro & the PIGIS debt is deal with. As for CoreUK England and Wales? Well, they must just hope for whatever crumbs fall from the table of the behemoth Leviathan that is the EU…..WAIT! What? WTF?..is Liam Fox spoofing?…or is it…P-P-Poker face….roll the dice, place your chips..etc…What was that O’Bama eejit saying about Core UK going to the back of the bus for trade deals if we dared to dismiss his Cassandra Chorus of ‘experts’? Well, after #Leprechaunomics, you all know what you can do with ‘experts’….LOL!

      ‘UK will build trading zone TEN times bigger than EU with mega-deals with 12 major nations

      BRITAIN already has ten trade deals lined up with economic powerhouses around the world as it forges its post-Brexit future, Liam Fox said last night.’

      http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/690191/Britain-ten-Brexit-trade-deals-lined-up-economic-powerhouses

      • StephenKenny

        This looks much like the start of a negotiation, rather than anything with any reality behind it.

        When you’re raising money, or negotiating almost anything, if you lack any inherent strength yourself, you launch a full broadside of partners. If you haven’t really got any partners, you get a stack of quotes that say something like ‘These guys are really great, and if they pull it off, we’d be really interested in doing a deal’. If you can’t get that, you get some people to say how great you are/have been.

        It was always going to be difficult for the UK. If they leave, they become a US vassal state – TTIP and all. If they stay, they’d have to put up with all the EU problems.

    • McCawber

      Let’s be absolutely clear about one thing.
      A united Ireland would be an even more doomed entity than NI currently is.
      The EU want to screw us and a united Ireland would simply hand us to them on a plate.
      The great minds you refer to are much more like the fools that seldom differ.

      • Deco

        The idiot parties who want to be voted in a political power process, so as to then avoid political power – in Kildare Street.

        Plus all the clowns in Stormont who until recently refused to talk with one another.

        What is the inverse of “synergy” ?

        When you put chancers together you get an even larger disaster.

  9. Deco

    Statism in France, and it’s pervasiveness means that the French way of dealing with a crisis will be much different.

    Nigel Farage is a noderate who would be a wimp by French standards, with his avocacy of greater personal liberty, etc.. France seems more likely to pick another centralizer.

    The Grand Ecoles have failed. French business has not suceeded – it’s banks needed to be bailed out by Greek taxpayers, Irish taxpayers, Spanish taxpayers, etc… It’s car manufacturers are losing share to Korea, and jobs are moving East.

    So far the French response has been nothing short of extremely delusional.

  10. survivalist

    For the record I agree with the point Mr Brogan often raises, re the manner of the issue of money as being a significant cause in the various present social and economic problems, and that this is being deliberately suppressed in the MSM.

    I also regard this problem as being one of the methods, and like a hydra to cut that head down, though satisfying, would not get to the heart of the problem. However I have no significant disagreement here, perhaps only a strategic one.

    However consider this extract from the work of a fairly renowned economist writing during the 60’s, that is the 1860’s:

    “At their birth the great banks, decorated with national titles, were only associations of private speculators, who placed themselves by the side of governments, and, thanks to the privileges they received, were in a position to advance money to the State.”

    Pretty modern in its tone and subject matter being scrutinized, but who is the author?

    The following extract also written by the same man should give his identity away;

    “The only part of the so-called national wealth that actually enters into the collective possessions of modern peoples is their national debt.”

    (Mortgages as indicators of personal wealth!)

    It is unfortunate that the modern left, new age socialists and so on are (mostly) so ostentatiously and energetically obnoxious that the great gems from that tradition are rendered untouchable by everyday people – for fear that they would be tainted by association.

    I don’t agree with all that I have read of his and Engels work (very limited), some of it I find to be plain nuts, but nonetheless Karl Marx had some stunning insights.

    As for what is happening in France, I would like to see a discussion in the MSM as to how it is that Government, whatever that is these days, can both take away from and give as a reward “inalienable human rights” of the people, depending on the circumstances.

    Ought that not be the other way around?

    “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
    ? George Orwell, Animal Farm

  11. Deco

    What is driving people to the FN ?

    The same entity that is driving Spaniards to Podemos, Greeks to Syriza, and Portuguese people to anti-austerity politicians there.

    The EPP (which includes the CDU (as evidenced by their behaviour with respect to Greece, they are not Christian, and are now thoroughly anti-democratic) plus FG, etc).

    The corporatist centre right is manufacturing a massive mess.

    The centre left have become useless. They are not as corrupt as in the USA, but even more useless.

    And for centrists, include corrupt parties like Ireland’s FF, who are no longer in the EP, thanks to their corruption.

    The mainstream political parties produced a monumental disaster. And they are oblivious to what they have done. In complete denial.

  12. Deco

    With gratitude to survivalist (who quoted Alex Carey)

    “The twentieth century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy”.

  13. McCawber

    In dystopia the robots will be hired out.
    In utopia you will own your robots.

  14. Deco

    David’s description “Family Firm” was an apt description of the main political crime organization in the RoI.

    Their fingerprints are all most policy disasters in the past 30 years.

    And now that M. Martin is holding power over the government, they are once again a dangerous menace to Ireland’s intersts.

    The FF leadership have shown a repeated tendency to put Europe before Ireland, and their own clique before the electorate. They deserve to be politically obliterated. Unfortunately, the media thinks otherwise.

    • McCawber

      Bear this mind.
      FF refer to their followers as the faithful.
      This has connotations of religion.
      The faithful are blind and so we have a classic case of the blind (polticians who are blind to everything except their own self interest) leading the blind.
      For FF, Europe = Self Interest
      Jobs for the boys/girls and all that good stuff.

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