June 30, 2016

Calm down: the Brexit referendum result is not a 21st-century Sarajevo

Posted in Irish Independent · 170 comments ·
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So now that the near-hysterical reaction to Brexit from most of “serious” Ireland is easing up, let us see what is likely to happen next. On one prominent weekend radio show, the mainstream view, fuelled by Friday’s apocalyptic utterances from the deeply Remain side of the Irish media/political/business establishment, tottered from sneering at the electorate in Britain to predicting Armageddon.

Most of us probably hoped for a Remain victory, but were sensible enough to entertain a Leave vote.

Those of us who have a responsibility to comment might have gone out to England to feel the pulse of our neighbour and – as a result of such fieldwork – might have predicted Brexit.

I’ve spent the past two days in England. I have had long meetings with some very cosmopolitan and deeply Remain British journalists and opinion-makers. I stayed in London with a friend, a Scottish businessman, who runs a large consultancy company, who voted Leave. His Irish wife voted Remain.

As we watched the implosion of the English football team, we also spoke to another Leaver – a committed west Londoner, a Labour Party member, a socialist and a dyed-in-the-wool, hyper-tolerant liberal who voted for Brexit.

Fifty-five miles away, in Oxford, which voted 70pc to remain – an outlier in middle England – I’ve just met with an academic friend who is traumatised. Meanwhile, an incredibly reasonable fund manager, whose livelihood will be dramatically affected if Brexit is as bad for business as some suggest, told me that he had voted Leave. When pressed – and this is a man with deep, almost Quaker convictions about society – he simply responded that democracy is important. In his view, the EU is deeply undemocratic.

These are all real British people.

The only possible media caricature was the cabbie who took me to Paddington this morning. But even she was measured. She voted to Leave because of immigration. But her arguments centered on resources, not race.

She maintained that immigrants are putting huge pressure on London’s public hospitals, where her 80-year old mother goes, and the state schools that her kids attend.

Her view was that if you want more immigrants, you can’t have austerity squeezing cash to these state institutions, which are under strain. This seemed like a reasonable argument to me.

Right now, I am writing in deepest, rural Oxfordshire at a gastro pub called The Mole Inn. The clientele are older, genteel and wealthy.

The car park is full of clean German cars and I’d suggest most, given the demographic, voted to Leave. The chat is about the capitulation of the football team, the implosion of the Labour frontbench and whether Boris will make it as PM.

This is England. This is a small snapshot of the electorate that shook the world and it doesn’t appear rabid, racist or reactionary.

On the contrary, it appears to be an electorate that was asked a question and answered. We can argue about whether it should ever have been asked the question or whether one crowd lied and the other over-egged the dangers, but this is politics, real politics.

It is plebiscite politics.

With the exception of the journalists who have tended towards heightened emotion and despite the urgency of the topics, the prevailing attitude is that things will calm down and life will go on. Granted, there is some worry about what will happen to Scotland.

The selling of shares and sterling may have unnerved some, but most see the financial casino as remote and are used to trading-floor tantrums. Many also believe that British assets are now far too cheap and hope their pension funds have the cash to buy at these levels.

Politically, there is a certainty that there will be a general election and there is lots of talk, even on the Leave side, about some compromise, short of immediate withdrawal.

Is there an element of ‘buyer’s remorse’ on the part of some Leavers? I’d say there is – but it’s more amongst the middle ground – those who cast a protest vote and didn’t expect Leave to win. But it is hard to see how this referendum can be undone.

Over the past 48 hours, there’s a sense that after all the promises and claims from the Brexit side, the UK will probably get the same deal as Norway or Switzerland. This would be a free-trade deal with some local control over immigrant numbers. The UK would have to pay for access to the EU markets, yet would have no place at the top table to influence the EU.

Most commentators, establishment politicians and EU enthusiasts will jeer at this outcome, pointing out that the Norwegian option is financially a worse deal for Britain – and they are right.

But what these people fail to appreciate or even ask, is why Norway or Switzerland, two eminently sensible nations, do not just join the EU and get a better deal?

The reason is simple. Lots of people value sovereignty, nationalism and independence. Somewhere deep in the national psyche, the Norwegians and the Swiss (and the Icelanders, who rejected the EU last year) value their sovereignty, the right to make their own laws and run their own affairs. And they are prepared to pay for this luxury. They understand that globalisation is eroding the latitude that countries have to manoeuvre, but they prefer the feeling of independence.

I use the word “feeling” advisedly – because independence is a feeling. It is a feeling of community, shared experiences and values that bond a people together and it is a feeling of home, security and autonomy. These are powerful emotions, which are obviously more compelling for people than pounds, shillings and pence.

At the end of the day, things will calm down and Britain may only get Norwegian status, but it will be enough for most Leavers. Germany has no interest in blocking the UK from being a semi-detached, island society, trading with Germany. We now know Germany makes the rules and the big calls.

The more extreme people, the ideologues in the EU Commission/nomenklatura on the one hand and the little Englanders in Ukip on the other, won’t want this – but this is what they will get.

So those extremists calling for accelerated moves to activate Article 50 – on both sides – will be drowned in the soothing balm of common sense. The markets will readjust to this reality and the Scots are likely to be bought off, again.

In short, Brexit is not a 21st-century version of Sarajevo 1914 or Poland 1939 or even Berlin 1989. It is a deeply British coup against the EU, which has served the purpose of scaring the bejaysus out of the entrenched establishment. It is the symptom, not the cause and is the consequence of fundamental problems like inequality, disenfranchisement and a seething popular resentment with the status quo. It’s a yellow card, not a red.

It will only become a monumental historical event if, like the Bourbons, the EU – and by extension the Irish elite – choose to ignore this warning. They can’t be that remote, can they?


  1. Colm MacDonncha

    Has the first rat deserted?
    Some very disturbing stories re Claude Juncker emerging…

    • Irish Worker’s net earnings have been continuously declining within the Eu, the same has been happening to UK workers, especially with the increase of stealt taxes and charges. While we also have to put up with the effects of bank bailouts. Work environments are becoming increasingly aggressive, illogical and ‘micro efficent” while at the same time becoming increasingly macro inenifficient. Also our lives are becoming increasingly, overly regulated, overly inspected, overly measured. Most workers are expected to do the work of two or three people and the profit from their sweat or stress is been feed into an ever growing monster burocratic evil system which has an insatiable appetite to extort more from us. Would Irish workers be better off outside the EU ?

      • McCawber

        The extortionists are our Public Servants, both elected and permanent.

        • Truthist

          McCawber,

          I have been getting flack from Michael Coughlan for saying the very same as u about our Civil Serpents / Public Serpents.
          Of course, I occasionally do qualify my position that there are the honorable exceptions.

          And, thoughtful replies by me to him then unrequited.

          It is a very brave Irishman who speaks about the Irish Civil Serpents / Public Serpents being corrupt.

          And, then the people whom u are trying to protect & enhance stab u in the back.

          What a strange people the Irish are !

          • McCawber

            I should have included inefficient and self serving but didn’t want to push my luck.
            A lot like bankers actually.

          • Truthist

            1.
            Freedom of Information [ F.O.I. ] Act Requests Re ; one’s own person or one’s own child inter alia are ;

            1.1
            subject to skull-duggery by Civil Serpents when request is to Irish Civil Service body ?

            1.2
            subject to skull-duggery by non-Civil Serpents when request is to non Irish Civil Service body ?

            2.
            Data Protection Act Requests Re ; one’s own person or one’s own child inter alia are ;

            2.1
            subject to skull-duggery by Civil Serpents when request is to Irish Civil Service body ?

            2.2
            subject to skull-duggery by non-Civil Serpents when request is to Irish non Civil Service body ?

            Continental European [ E.U. also ] learned friend of mine thinks that this would be the case per Irish State such is the notoriety Irish State has earned itself for how it treats its own under-class.

      • Deco

        Let’s ask the Irish workers in Australia, who went to the other side of the world to get away from the EU.

        Do they miss the dicats ?

        • Tull McAdoo

          I talk with them regularly and the feedback i’m getting is a big NO. They think that the crowd running Ireland just cannot wait for another dictat, so that they can implement it and remain “best in class”…

    • tony_murphy

      David, I think you underestimate the people living in the UK. 52% want out of the EU with no strings attached. They value their freedom and democracy. The want an end to freedom of movement. They want to secure their borders. They want to have schools and hospitals which aren’t severely overcrowded. They want a house and one that doesn’t cost a fortune. They want to make their own laws, and not be over ruled by the European court of justice. They do not want dictates from the EU. They don’t want to spend 10 billion a year for access to a highly regulated market, which cripples business with bureaucracy.

      Those who work for EU quangos etc and the communists in the media are throwing hissy fits.

      Political parties and Civil service on the Brussels gravy train will also make noise.

      I campaigned for the Vote Leave campaign, I was on the streets working proactively for a leave vote.

      The UK can now go and have trade agreements with the world. Courts will be able to deport criminals and terrorists. And the UK won’t be dragged into a German led EU Army. And we won’t have 76 million arriving from Turkey. No more fines from Brussels. Pressures on schools, nhs, housing, congestion can be controlled with a points based immigration system.

      Ireland is being dragged into the abyss, a horrendous existence with the EU. The future is very bleak for Ireland unless you lot wake up, turn off RTE, Newstalk and stop reading Tintin o’Toole, gene kerrigan etc. See the politicians for what they are, EU master boot lickers

      I was in Ireland at the weekend, the media are nothing short of propaganda wolves for the EU and political establishment. Pat Kenny was awful, he had Mary Lou, Brian Hayes, Bertie Ahern, Eamon McCann and Alistair Campbell on – what a bunch of losers, crazies and communists. I watched someone read the Sunday Independent and the columnists slamming the British for screwing up the Irish economy. What world do these people live in? They need to get friendly with the UK and fast. Merkel and Juncker could care less about Ireland

      • tony_murphy

        I recommend listening to Jacob Rees-Mogg and the reasons for Brexit

        why EU is a disaster for everyone!

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk6Ymy758l4

        Also check out the post Ireland Lisbon Treaty rejection EU parliament sessions. The UK MEPs stood up for Ireland – NOT FG/FF/SF/LAB

        Politicians interests in Ireland are not in the Peoples interests. I am not a People before profit so and so. I’m not a communist.

        • Deco

          Ireland’s prominent political parties are useless to the people, but they love having access to the people’s money.

          • McCawber

            You could add that they and their (not ours) civil servants have very little respect for our money.

      • Deco

        +1

        Tony Murphy, you are correct.

        Except, Ireland is already in the abyss. In fact Ireland has been in the abyss since the ECB decided to play with the interest rate, and bail out Germany/France/Italy circa 2002. This did more than any other act to drive a property boom until 2007. Making a home into a gambler bet.

        The EPP (Merkel, Junker, Kenny) is rotten to the core, in every country where it has a local franchise – not just Greece.

      • Truthist

        Tony, I as a person who has had to endure extreme poverty since I was a teenager & into being an adult homeless & roofless in the Irish State am very thankful for ur assessment above.

        But, I beg to differ when u say ;

        “… Mary Lou, Brian Hayes, Bertie Ahern, Eamon McCann and Alistair Campbell … [ are ] … a bunch of LOSERS …”
        Redacted by Truthist

        Nay, Tony, ;
        “They are a bunch of WINNERS.”

        They win for :

        themselves power & monies

        & wittingly & gladly also,

        their masters power

        The National “Puppet Master” Hidden Government of Irish State with their put-on False Dialectic Trotskyite [ modern Sinn Fein, Socialist Party, Militant Socialist Pary, Auntie Austerity Dalliance inter alia ] versus Stalinist [ FF & FG & Labour Party ]

        –> EU

        –> Communist Internationale

        –> Trilateral Commission

        & ultimately –> The Rotshchilds

        • tony_murphy

          Thanks Truthist, you have experienced more than most the effects of a terrible government

          Over the past few weeks it became obvious that there was a core group of politicians working in the UK who cared about freedom and democracy, who passionately understood the horrors of the EU. Many of them are intellectuals, who were able to articulate and fight for the cause. Some are Christians, who I guess freaked out at the thought of Turkey joining, I did also. Ireland has lost it’s christian faith, which is a terrible shame. Hopefully you don’t end up with a mosque on every corner and sharia law someday. It’s a religion of conquest imo.

          The UK was also lucky that we had newspapers who were prepared to fight against the establishment, Dailymail, Daily Express, Sun, The Times on Sunday and the Telegraph.

          I have to give some credit to David. He was not a doomsayer, and didn’t fuel the flames against Brexit. I know how unpopular Brexit is in Ireland, because it does have potential serious consequences – but that’s Irelands problem and there are solutions. Staying in the EU political gravy train is not one of them.

          I hope there are people in Ireland (Deco/Truthist) who can organise and topple the establishment (FF/FG/LAB/RTE/Newstalk/Papers) with the truth, that’s all it takes and people prepared to listen and take a hit economically for a longer term view

          I understand that a vote in Ireland makes no difference today given the quality of people in government, so there is an argument for being ruled by EU dictators. But is that a good idea either way?

          • Truthist

            UK &/or each of all its countries plus part of country [ North East of Ireland ], for own good & the good of the world would be correct to NOT be in :

            1.
            Euro Currency System

            2.
            Private Central Banking System ; –> Bank of International Settlements –> Rothschilds

            3.
            Fractional Reserve Banking System

            4.
            Non Precious Metal Fiat Legal Tender System

            5.
            Non Treasury issued Currency [ or alternatively, actual Money ] System

            5.1.1
            “Typical Paper Currency” System

            OR

            5.1.2
            “Gold Paper Money [ Money because Precious Metal vis., Gold in this case ] System

            AND

            5.2
            “Silver” Coin System

            6.
            E.U. System

            7.
            N.A.T.O. System

            8.
            United Nations System

            &

            9.
            UK System

            Per 1.
            UK is not in.

            Per 6.
            Recent UK Referendum result requires UK Parliament to vote on exiting E.U..
            So, UK as a whole or at least only England, & Wales also, is closer to not being in.

            Thus, currently, UK still in 8 of the above 9, but more close with opportunity to not be in 1 of the remaining 8.
            vis.
            6.
            E.U.

            Sadly, how the UK media & the whole range of its social classes reason the case for not being in EU traditionally is in xenophobic & materialistic terms about its continental European fellow members,

            e.g.’s

            Englishman’s gripe with the French
            Heck, the ordinary French are OK.
            But, Brits just want to be moaning about them.
            Napoleon only schemed against them because UK schemed against France firstly.
            And, much more French than actual English were fatalities during WW 1 & WW 2.
            And, UK were the puppets that started planned WW 1, & WW 2.

            Ditto about English gripes about the Germans.
            And, what is more, Germany is not a sovereign country ;
            It is an occupied country ; By USA, France, & … UK.
            USSR have withdrawn.

            Complaining about UK Exchequer contributions to E.U. budget.
            When the sums are done, it may well be the case that UK pays among the least per capita.

            UK should argue their case as a fair & reasonable person would ;
            And, they stating that ultimately the UK for its own good, & as good example for all the other countries to do likewise, & for the benefit of the world, should not be in E.U..

            Really, the British Freemasons would love to be in charge of the E.U..
            But, they are not.
            And, it looks like they could not be until in distant future.

            UK countries concerns about immigration are very justified ;
            Although, it is “politically incorrect” to mention particular ethnicities other than “Eastern European”.

            Likewise, the complaints about E.U. Bureaucracy Crassness & Corruption is very justified.

            The case for there being no E.U. is really overwhelming.

            And, all that stuff about the E.U. as a self-organizing system to prevent war in Europe, or just inside E.U. borders, is boloney.

            All main-stream media in UK is not to be trusted for the good of the individual countries & part of country of UK nor even for the UK which itself should dissolve as listed with point 9. above. with certain return of North East of Ireland back to the Rest of Ireland [ R.O.I. ].

            Enoch Powell was a creep even though he was correct to be against the E.U..
            And, most of his justifications were spurious & intellectually dishonest.
            But, again, he was correct that the E.U. is bad news for UK.

            Many very capable UK politicians down throughout the years since proposition, & reality, of EEC –> E.C. –> E.U. ;
            But, off-hand I cannot think of some to mention as noble & suitable to be leader vis-a-vis 1.-9. [ above ].

          • Truthist

            Sorry Tony,

            Typo ;

            Omit the following ;

            5.1.2
            “Gold Paper Money [ Money because Precious Metal vis., Gold in this case ] System
            AND
            5.2
            “Silver” Coin System

            THESE ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THE SOLUTION

        • Reality Check

          +1 Truthist.
          If there is one thing I like about the comment section here – it’s the amount of people who “get it”.
          Regards.

          • Truthist

            Thanks Reality Check.

            But, we need to do more than talking to each other on this blog.

            e.g.

            When conversation drifts to the type of topics discussed in this blog, offer into the hand of ur interlocutor a List of Links for :

            Websites
            Web-Blogs [ e.g. DMW's web-blog here ]
            Youtube Videos
            Online free e-books
            etc.

            that u have carefully decided are best for to “wake up” the populace of Irish State about

            Corruption of the Irish Institutional State’s [ I.S.I.S. ] :

            Civil Serpents

            Professional Classes
            especially
            Legal Profession
            Insurance
            Real Estate
            Banksters
            Media
            Political Parties
            Professional Lobbyists
            Spin Doctors for Politicians
            Pseudo Intelligentsia
            Corporate Ireland
            False Opposition
            Gate-Keepers
            Union Bosses

            EU
            NATO
            UN

            Banksters ; Irish & Foreign
            Bosses of Banksters ; Private Central Banks
            Bosses of Bosses of Banksters ; BIS ==> Rothschilds
            Currency just invented from thin air by Private Central Bank is issued as Private Loan to Government with Interest payable back
            Fractional Reserve Banking Scam
            Actual “Money” should be used
            vis.
            Gold ; Gold Paper & Gold Coin
            Silver ; Silver Coin
            And, as Hugo Salinas Price proposes

            9-11 ; Links telling who really did this false flag

            etc.

            Must be more pro-active.

            Necessary for to save the Nation.

            I recommend :

            Material ;

            Paper
            light Card

            In fact, make them of each ;
            Save the Card versions for those persons u think will definitely follow-up with research.

            Sizes ;

            2.1
            Name Card

            2.2
            Double sized Name Card ;

            2.2.1
            Format ;

            2.2.1.1
            Book Fold
            Opens like landscape book

            2.2.1.2
            Tent Fold
            Stands like Tent

            3.
            Text Placement

            3.1
            Front Face of Card
            Only has Introductory Phrase & Logo / Symbol / Motif

            3.2
            Faces other than Front
            List of Links carefully arranged according to categories

            4.
            Styling

            Plenty of clear space
            Large Font ; >= 14 Pt. if possible for Links

            Colour of Paper / Card ;
            Pastel Blue
            Pastel Yellow
            Pastel Orange
            Pastel Green
            Cream

      • Reality Check

        +1 Tony, 100% agree.

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        “I was in Ireland at the weekend, the media are nothing short of propaganda wolves for the EU and political establishment. Pat Kenny was awful, he had Mary Lou, Brian Hayes, Bertie Ahern, Eamon McCann and Alistair Campbell on – what a bunch of losers, crazies and communists. I watched someone read the Sunday Independent and the columnists slamming the British for screwing up the Irish economy. What world do these people live in? They need to get friendly with the UK and fast.”

        I am curious as to when SF suddenly became so uncritical about the EU: as far as I remembered, they advocated a No vote in 9 different referenda for the last 40 years, including the way more benign than a super-state Lisbon Treaty (and even when the European Communities were only limited to 4 freedoms, without 172 different EU laws for mirrors). I mean this is as erratic as if they suddenly changed their mind on the united Ireland.

        http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/685671/EU-referendum-Poland-Angela-Merkel-punishing-Britain-destroy-Brussels-Jaroslaw-Kaczynski

  2. yadayada

    So New Zealand has offered the uk its team of skilled trade deal negotiators.
    Hello sweet deal for nz in return, goodbye to Irish lamb production?

    • Deco

      Actually, this is probably a potential problem for the much larger Munster dairy sector. Munster, we got a problem.

      What are the clown MEPs of Munster doing to retain this market ? [ apart from insulting Munster's customers ].

      Concerning skills, Ireland cannot even put skilled people in charge of the Skills quango ( called FAS / Solas ).

      We have gross mismanagement in our institutional state. And it is all thoroughly EU compliant.

      The Irish institutional state needs to wake up, and get their act together very, very quickly.

      • yadayada

        Back in the 70s when Britain did the dirty on australasia by joining the eec, a lot of farming collapsed. The famous hippy country of northern New South Wales was a dairying region prior to 1972, the hippies moving in for cheap land following the end of dairying. we could easily go the same way now.
        Meanwhile enda goes off to upset the English by supporting the scots nats in their attempt to become Greeks without sunshine.

        • Deco

          Does Ireland have a plan here ?

          Or is merely more PR statements from ministers and state quangos ?

          What happens when the rural population disowns FG like they turned on FF, and then rebells against all the quangos sent to “help” ?

          And yes, Sturgeon will make Scotland into ” Greece on the North Sea”, if she maintains her current course of spending and borrowing, and pretending that all is absolutely glorious.

          If Scotland really wants independence, then Scotland needs to ditch the SNP. The SNP are Scotland’s answer to Bertie Ahern and mates. And the result will be the same.

          • McCawber

            I don’t know if Ireland has a plan but it’s objective should be to keep the UK in the EU.

          • Truthist

            I tend to agree McCawber.

            Keep the UK in the E.U. so as to curtail its Dr. Strangeglove agenda.

            Meanwhile, there should be a coup against the “Nasty” Hidden Government of Irish State by a newly recruited “Noble” Hidden Government “for” Irish People so as to prepare us for when it is unavoidably a cluster-f..k.

            Thought just crossed my mind ;

            Could the regulars of this blog arise to become that new Hidden Government ?
            And Colonel DMW as leader ?

            Oh the joy of it !

    • How many litres of fuel does it take to ship Irish lambs to New Zealand,

      • yadayada

        I don’t know why you’d want to

      • I mean, could Irish workers be paid enough to afford to buy Irish lamb instead of cheaper sugar rubbish which makes them sick and causes a drain and cost on the health service. Imagine if New Zeland people baught Australian or New Zealand lamb or similar locally produced food and Irish workers could afford healthy Irish food.

  3. dwalsh

    Great article David. Thank you

  4. “Lots of people value sovereignty, nationalism and independence.”

    Otherwise known as Patriots, lovers of community, family and friends, and culture.

    Europe is statist, autocratic, undemocratic, and anti cultural as it wants homogeneity.

    Patriotism is life
    Statism is death.

    The Brits chose life over death. good for them.

    • Deco

      In the case of the EU, super-statism, with a monopoly on power and control.

      It is turning into a hellhole. Just ask the Greeks.

      For some baffling reason, there is no discussion any more about Greece. The debts are building. The hardship continues.

  5. McCawber

    Oportunity Knocks.
    The Brexit Referendum is probably a good snap shot of how most of the EUs population perceive the EU.
    Internally not all are members of the Euro.
    In addition, Norway and Switzerland position in remaining outside the EU should provide further insights into the EU.
    Trust or lack of trust is the issue.
    Countries like Britain are being proved right, their is a serious democratic deficit in the EU.
    Could you imagine how much bigger the shock to the financial system there would have been had Britain been part of the Euro Zone.
    So what is to do.
    Short term – Immigration can be solved by imposing quotas.
    The goal should be to protect a state’s culture not to destroy it.
    Sociology should be used to arrive at what is the level of immigration a country can sustain without damaging it’s core culture.
    Just a starting point because this is a huge issue and the EU needs to address it in a fundamental way.

    • cooldude

      Very good points. Any attempt at a rational discussion of immigration is immediatly met by accusations of xenophobia and racism. This is a deliberate media policy and was highlighted by their claim of a huge rise in racist attacks post brexit. Unfortunately there has always been a racist element in society and there probably always will. The points raised by the taxi driver David spoke to are very valid and deserve proper discussion not accusations of racism or anything else.

      Britain is currently experiencing over 300,000 immigrants per annum and heading for 400 soon. It simply does not have the public resources ie. schools, hospitals etc to cope with this number yet Peter Sutherland is insisting they have to take a lot more. Probably a figure of 100,000 would be manageable at a push. This is a deliberate attempt to destroy the fabric of society and to create conflicts over dwindling resources. That is Suds key role in all of this. Look at his background, Goldman Sachs, Bilderberg steering committee he is as inside as you can get and it his brief to firstly create the migrant crisis and then use it for the destruction of national sovereignty throughout Europe. Any mention of this is met with the usual racist nonsense instead of a rational discussion.

      Here is an interesting article from Brandon Smith which discusses whether Brexit was deliberately planned in order to have a scapegoat to blame for the now inevitable financial crisis on the way. I see the IMF have called Deutsche Bank the most dangerous financial institution on the planet. Bank resolutions or bail ins are on the way and Brexit will be blamed.

      http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-29/brexit-aftermath-heres-what-will-happen-next

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Sociology should be used to arrive at what is the level of immigration a country can sustain without damaging it’s core culture”

      Best sentence I have read on this board for manny a year.

      • I thought the word Sociology had been banned in the Western world, it is rare to see the word Sociology written or mentioned

      • Reality Check

        <2% from Non-indigenous White counties would be about right.

        • McCawber

          Anything approaching a total of 2% regardless of any categorization is way too high.
          As a simple example.
          Take a country with a population of 50m.
          2% = 250,000.
          Say the 250,000 are Chinese or perhaps India both countries of approx 1Bn people where 250,000 would be a miniscule emigration number.
          In approx 45 years time(factoring in births) the population would be completely Chinese.
          A good place to start would be the death/birth rates.
          Total immigration as a % would have to be below that number.

          • Truthist

            At least the both of u have the guts to be responsible ;

            All these nationalities / ethnicities are very guardful against influx of ethnicities different to them into their mother countries ;
            Especially if they of different shade.
            And, they make no bones about it.
            And, they are wont to be racist about it too.
            So, it really hurts me to hear of these ethnicities looking out for their own nations but arguing it in a racist way ; Because I am against racism.

            U make very valid discussion here lads.

  6. michaelcoughlan

    Hi,

    A super flawless article.

    Hopefully your next one will let us know your thoughts on how Ireland will respond to how we now are the first point of call for all the hopefuls coming here from yonder in the EU etc?

    Do we go for a skills based immigration policy to take pressure of our social services? Do we put checks at our ports to prevent the hoard from a backdoor entry to the mainland UK through the North so that we can keep our own border open? Do we bring back a devalued punt to save Irish exporting?

    Michael.

    • McCawber

      From what I’ve heard, the shackles have been very firmly applied on Ireland.
      Hollande trying to put the boot into England.
      Unless he’s using reverse psychology by telling the UK they can’t cancel the result of the referendum (they can) and to get on with it.
      I know what I’d give him.

  7. Deco

    Excellent article.

    The event Brexit, is now being surpassed, for relevance, by the reaction of those who regard the event as unacceptable.

    This is highly insightful. There is a lot of manufactured outrage in existence. In fact there is a lot of competition in seeing who can be the most outraged. So far the London Independent newspaper seems to be leading the way in the absurdity stakes.

    The one aspect that has been deliberately ignored by the outrage-atariat, is the performance of the morons in charge in Brussels. There is presumably a reason for that – it would cause more of us to realise that the EU is not just a centre of power politics, and lobbying – but of conpounded ineptitude as well.

    The one thing that we are not “supposed” to think about is the actual possibility, that maybe the British electorate, made a sensible and reasonable assessment of the performance of the EU.

    One liar after another has proclaimed that the problem is the electorate.

    I disagree. The problem is what the people were asked to accept. The people were asked to accept a bungling entity that loves giving itself more power, and which accepts responsibility for none of it’s errors.

    And in recent years it has produced a series of massive blunders.

    But for the sake of the imperial racket of the day, many people are deliberately ignoring this ineptitude (plus the corruption, and lobbying). And these people are also advocating that the rest of us, also ignore such ineptitude.

    There is something very flawed with the entire political superstate, by stealth being imposed over the veneer of consent.

    And that gets revealed, when we find out that there is no actual consent.

    Those lambasting the electorate, for having the courage to state that they no longer tolerate the serial incompetence and dictatorial tendencies in the power system, are in effect advocating anti-democratic practices.

  8. Deco

    Of all the reactions from the Irish political insiders, perhaps the reaction of maFFia don, Michael Martin, was the most revealing.

    Martin declared that Cameron should never have consulted the people.

    Then as Sturgeon decided to go on a campaign of absurdity, Martin (who holds power over the current government), declared that the Irish government should back Sturgeon (regardless of the consequences of Ireland’s relationship with Westminister).

    The man is not merely arrogant.

    And he is not merely an anti-democrat.

    In fact, he more dangerous than merely being a servant of the EU power centre.

    He will engage in antics that sell out Ireland’s interest, as well.

    But then, none of this is news. In fact it is a continuation of what the Bertie Party have represented for well over a decade.

  9. giovanna

    Finaly Brits will have a good sip of what real migration means. Till now people from EU Member States have been perceived as such. Now, that British police is possibly called to leave the spot in Calais by the French Government, all African migrants will pass the English Channel with any means

  10. mishco

    The article paints the UK as a hero, performing a “deeply British coup” against the EU-villain.

    I think, of all people, Eamonn Dunphy got it right when he said we have a new hero, Iceland, after “that match”. Did anyone notice that he added “and they burned the bond-holders” before RTE quickly cut him off to stop him from committing further blasphemy!

    • Deco

      What is insightful here, is that we get few references to the PRIVATE UNSECURED bondholders, and the bailout that they received.

      It is a completely forbidden subject for discussion.

      No mention of it. Ever. It is noticeable for it’s absence in the public debate.

      No mention of Ireland’s massive public sector debt, which shot up because of the Bondholders, the ECB and the EU Commission. The welfare state in Ireland is headed for bankruptcy, because there “had” to be a welfare program for gamblers.

      Good on Iceland.

      Icelanders have self respect.

      Ireland has a garrison for the nEU empire making sure we never get any such ideas, for fear of an imaginary shame, that they construct and repeatedly define.

      • Truthist

        Ever mention casually when visiting an Irish State office — & they having 3 or more Civil Serpents at the time — that the E.U. is a corrupting influence on Ireland ?

        Invariably, they respond very angrily that the E.U. is great.
        Shouting even.
        It is some experience to behold.

        Them’s Civil Serpents are no Fools ;
        They knows who feathers their nest,
        They do so they do.
        And, they are not Ingratiates.
        The Nomenclatura never have Ingratiates amongst themselves

    • coldblow

      I was disappointed with the result because I wanted to see more of the England support in the competition. I used to want to visit Iceland but after watching their TV news every morning for the past year or so I have changed my mind.

      • Reality Check

        Cold blow said; “I used to want to visit Iceland but after watching their TV news every morning for the past year or so I have changed my mind”. – Why so?
        Best

  11. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    Hi David,

    It’s impossible to relate to all aspects of Brexit that you have touched on in your article, which by the way was in my opinion the most balanced voice in the wilderness of hysteria prevailing in both camps (I am talking about Irish commentators + Dutchman Bono). There is one point raised in your article where you (or UKiP – whereby I do not equate you with UKiP) are not telling the whole story – strain on NHS caused by the EU immigrants.

    But before I go into that and tell what you what you do not know and UKiP pretend they do not know, I would like to clarify that

    1.I have not suddenly flip-flopped into the Schadenfraude camp of the Remainers regarding British decision – where my post-Brexit arguments are aiming at is to show that albeit I think that Mr Farage’s motives – to regain the control over his country are laudable, he always seemed to lack a long-term strategy as to ‘what’s next for Britain?’ – and now it appears he lacks tactical prowess too – unless we assume that Mr Farage had been deliberately lying from the very beginning on things like

    -remaining in EEA and cutting off the four freedoms at the same time, or
    -NHS and 350 million a week (basically he lied on that

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-result-nigel-farage-nhs-pledge-disowns-350-million-pounds-a7099906.html

    ).

    Hang on, someone would think – what about the Remain camp and their lack of long-term vision?

    Why, they are devoid of strategic thinking too – and those who can think strategically (German elites) have envisaged a model of Europe whereby ALL PERIPHERAL COUNTRIES – so this includes Ireland, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Greece (because whether we like it or not, we are all in that group) – basically everyone outside the auld Carolingian empire that is being reconstructed – are going to become SECOND CLASS MEMBERS that can only service the ever expanding markets conquered by the export-driven German economy in order to grow and keep the high wages/low unemployment in their country (two facts:
    a) the Visegrád Group countries had been for the last two decades THE MAIN IMPORTER of German products and

    b) State-owned AIB is offering German savers an interest rate that is more than three times that offered to Irish customers effectively subsidising German savers at AIB and the same is done in every German/Dutch/French owned bank in Eastern Europe (or Central and Eastern Europe as we call there, or Mitteleuropa – I do not care); the same applies to subsidising German pensioners on holidays by paying more for the same trips than they pay in Germany.

    2. As I reside in Ireland, I am worried primarily about Ireland’s interest because I do not want his country to descend into some sort of mess (for reasons too obvious to explain) akin to what we have witnessed in Greece when they cut them off credit and bogus farmers subsidies for mobile plastic olive trees.

    I am a cultural Anglophile (Britain was my first country of emigration), but Britain’s interest does not even come second in my musings, and if they shoot themselves in their foot, tough s…t (natural selection).

    Now, why am I saying you are wrong on the strain that the immigrants put on NHS?

    For two reasons.

    First of all, they do, but so do all new-born people and ultimately having demographic growth is good for the economy (but not for this indebted model!), in your Keynesian economic model, David, more than in mine because Keynesism would simply turn every country into Albania (which country is btw now scheduled to join the EU to carve out a new market for German exports – unlike 10 new members, they are not even asking them to fulfil any compatibility criteria) if a Keynesian country is cut off debt-incurring unlimited mechanism (Keynesism ultimately leads to stimulating growth and jobs by borrowing from future generations for which it requires more people to be born/imported than they die).

    The question is not if the immigrants are exhausting the NHS resources (I am still talking about Britain), but: will the NHS end up with MORE or LESS money, MORE or LESS hospital beds and doctors per head, if Britain somehow manages to stay in EEA and cut the freedom of labour for the EU?

    And the answer is a big resounding: NHS will be completely f…d if they kick out the Poles, the Spaniards, the Greeks (Mr Farage was very much against any EU help for Greece, mind you – and I think he privately likes Poles more than Greeks: sure he had been sitting beside one in the EU Parliament almost all the time) and – there is this wondrously naïve misconception in Ireland that this will not happen because of the pre-existing CTA – the Irish (being closer to hate than love for this guy due to his economic delusions, being unware he was used by German empire, spies like Larkin and his rubber plant producers, and for correspondence with Lenin, but…

    ‘Will the anti-Irish aristocrats who are rushing in to become your officers allow you to take a stand for Irish nationality?’
    James Connolly,
    From his 1914 article, ‘War – what it means’
    .
    .
    .
    And here is why.

    - As I have been saying for a long time, the main problem in the UK is not the cheap eastern European Labour but the BETTER QUALIFIED eastern European labour. Even UKiP supporters (and I can provide you with names) employ labour from eastern Europe simply because there are not enough Brits to do certain jobs (i.e. truck repair mechanics). Furthermore, the golden standard of the British education system is one colossal failure as shown in PISA ratings, which is the main reason why Polish parents in the UK send their kids into Polish schools AFTER British schools hours (Wales for example is the EUs mathematically most illiterate region, and the difference between Wales and Poland in mathematical skills is bigger – and I checked – than between Wales and Jordan).

    - But there are very good universities in Britain, one can point out (in fact some of them are the best in Europe). Yes, and they saddle their students with such debts that, combined with the property bubble that the British elites RELY ON, which is the reason why so many Brits study medicine in Poland.

    So, as you can see, the whole system is f..d up:

    -low education standards in Britain = low skilled workforce spoiled by welfare programs = necessity to import cheap and better skilled workforce from eastern Europe that will be better assimilated than from other continents (and now with Mr Farage’s points system there will be even more pressure on British workforce to educate themselves)

    -high education standards in Oxbridge (btw, a girl from Poland won an award for the best student in Cambridge, so even that is changing) = high debt burden = necessity to find a job in the City of London = pressure on property prices = getting all that fine education only to struggle to save anything by just living there and repaying student/mortgage debt = necessity to import qualified labour to City that is not burdened with debt = even more pressure on property prices

    - According to a recent study by researchers at University College London, the average recent migrant to Britain from within the EU is in his twenties and costs the National Health Service (NHS) less than the average native.

    - 26% of all doctors in NHS are foreign; Ireland has the fourth highest number of staff in the NHS, followed by Poland, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, Portugal, Pakistan, Spain and Germany.

    - and now the main thrust of my argument that NHS has more to lose than win on Brexit should Britain infringe on four freedoms:

    500,000 Britons avail of the free medical care in the continent (the vast majority of them are pensioners). There are so many of them in fact that most of Spanish hospitals, for example, have to employ interpreters for every British patient (compare that with the situation in Ireland or the UK where most foreigners are able to attend the GP or hospital without the interpreter, who is only needed in really exceptional situations, and even then they would usually bring their families to interpret).

    In fact, the situation is so bad that in 2012 Spain’s then health minister, Ms Ana Mato, announced a crackdown on Britons who had paid no tax but used the health service—at a cost of almost €1 billion to the Spanish state.

    So if Britain somehow manages to stay in EEA and exempt themselves from the freedom of labour movent (and even that will not solve the problem of those immigrants who are already there), this would be a trully great deal that UKiP will make:
    THEY WILL GET RID OF 26% OF THEIR DOCTORS AND IMPORT 500,000 OLD BRITISH PENSIONERS FROM SPAIN (great for the pressure on roads and renting market too).

    So this was the first reason why cutting off four freedoms (thus movement of Labour) will do more damage than good to the NHS.
    .
    .
    .
    But there is a second reason – and this one is more controversial.

    It is cultural more than economic and it is called SOCIAL COHESION.

    The biggest strain exerted on NHS is not by EU citizens, but by the British born citizens with Muslim background. And this is something no one in Britain will ever say outloud (even Mr Farage would not have guts I have to say) because it is ok is Britain to criticise immigrants as long as they are white (if the likes of The Sun were writing the same about Nigerians or Muslims that they are writing about Poles, Romanians and – in the past – what people in England were saying about ‘no blacks, no dogs, no Irish’: they would be immediately closed down and their columnist arrested – such is the direction of British political correctness).

    And before anyone accuses me of white-supremacist, I have this to say: I am in favour of patriotism, not racism.
    In keeping with the tradition of Polish nationalism (which is the reason why we did not have hitlerism in Poland – actually the most far-right military underground movement in WWII Poland liberated a famous Jewish boxer from a Gestapo prison), I claim that you can Black or Jewish and be a Polish/Irish/English patriot – but you MUST ASSIMILITE TO THE INDIGINEOUS CIVILISATION (again, civilisation is different than culture).

    The radical Muslim immigrant communities in Britain are clearly stating in their mosks that they aim to destroy the Western civilisation – and THIS, not the reputed fueling of racism by Mr Farage, was the reason people of Britain said – for better or worse – that they cannot put up with it any longer and they want their country back.

    An unreported German news in Ireland was that huge arsenals of WAR-GRADE weapons were found in German mosks:

    “we can assume that secret weapons arsenals are being set up for a big terrorist attack not only in Germany, but throughout Europe. It would be a dereliction of duty if we didn’t recognize this danger and find these weapons arsenals

    We must see this danger and deal with it as soon as possible. Those in charge of our security must look at this closely and share this information with all relevant security agencies”
    – said the German intelligence.

    Now, either we deal with that or we will end up in Vienna 1683 – except this time we will lose. And the hour is not really propitious for President Higgins bromides about Ireland’s delay and lack of taking her share of responsibility (Ireland is responsible for bombings and invitations to 800,000? Really???!!!!) in taking refugees (just 10 of the 2,622 asylum seekers that Ireland pledged to accept from Italy and Greece under the EU relocation programme have arrived in Ireland so far – but hay, maybe the Irish immigration did a good job and only 10 of then were genuine?), but what would you expect from somone that attended a vigil when KGB-trained Arafat died.

    Expelling teachers from English schools for using the word ‘Christmas’ which hurts feelings of radical Muslims was OK, but the signs on London buses – nah, that ain’t hurting anyone’s religious feelings:

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/08/london-buses-declare-glory-allah/

    Britain first is the only political movement that says it outright and it is only a question of time before they will first provoke, then arrest them too:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDmVABJwfkk

    P.S. Regarding the latest racist attacks in the England: some real anti-immigrant sentiment non-withstanding, did it ever occur to any of you that this may be a provocation of foreign intelligence to blame UKiP? The coordination and organisation of them attacks would suggest it is worth considering.

    • McCawber

      I don’t suppose you’d care to summarise the above.
      it’s an unfortunate byproduct of age that one’s ability to comprehend your very complicated narrative is seriously diminished.

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        Hi McCawber,

        I was about to finish a nice little summary I wrote for you, but clicked on some key while grabbing a coffee and the whole thing was lost.
        I suppose the really primitive summary might be:
        1. UKiP did not have a plan on ‘what’s next’.
        2. They are not prepared to face the German well-though plan.
        3. They lied on NHS and will – in a few years time after the collapse of the Conservative Party – have to face the angry electorate who dreams of going back in time to 1950/60/70 England, when property was cheap, road were empty, there was no competition from countries like China and one could get a well-paid job (Bretton Woods era) with no qualifications.
        4. The Remainians lied even more and so now they all shoot themselves in their feet.
        5. Limiting the freedom of Labour movement from the EU will lower wages and make conditions in NHS worse because:
        5.1 Most Britons lack skills needed in modern economy because their education system is a disaster thanks, among other things, to counter-cultural revolution (in fact EU immigration helped to raise their standards): Wales has the worst results in mathematics in the EU in PISA test.
        5.2 The intelligent young Britons are trapped with student debt and property bubble (those who benefit are rentiers and they run all parties so no one wants to change it).
        5.3 On UKiP’s rules they will have to compete not only with the EU workers but with the whole world.
        6. Limiting freedom of labour will result in Britain having less staff in NHS and a return of 500,000 British pensioners who are draining Spanish medical care system to the tune of 1bn a year (another lie of Mr Farage: EU immigrants put strain on our NHS – no, it is
        6.1 British muslims
        6.2 Britons putting much bigger strain on EU’s health system).
        7. Eastern Europeans are valued allies for people who have guts to take up the Muslims in Britain (like Britain First crowd), but Mr Farage and an average Englisman are hypocritical cowards (example: 200 Russian fans beat up 1,000 English fans who affronted the Russian flag) so, instead of the Muslims, they prefare to channel all their anger on the only people who they are legally allowed to criticise – the white:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPinKYBjeec

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx-aSNAHIa4

        Would not do that with an ISIS flag, would you?

        SUPPORT BRITAIN FIRST

  12. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    Mr Kevin Doyle writes in his botched analysis:

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/no-more-inferiority-complex-ireland-must-forge-new-place-in-europe-34835833.html

    that ‘We must find new allies like Belgium, Sweden and Denmark, who will help us fight the big battles on corporation tax’.

    Such statement strikes me as truly bizzare – a quick look at the list of countries by corporate tax rate informs us that the said three countries all have high corporation tax rates. I am particularly puzzled by inclusion of Belgium on his list, a country with 33% corporation tax, with Lenin and Che Guevara issued on its 1999 stamps, and with the government spending of 55.6% GDP . These are the EU countries with corporation tax 20% or lower:

    Bulgaria (10%),
    Czech Republic (19%),
    Croatia (20%),
    Cyprus (12.5%),
    Estonia (20%),
    Finland (20%),
    Hungary (19%),
    Latvia (15%),
    Lithuania (15%),
    Poland (19%),
    Romania (16%),
    Slovenia (17%), and, of course,
    Ireland (12.5%).

    I can only hope that Taoiseach’s corporation tax B plan for Brexit is better than Mr Doyle’s, provided that his plan B was not that his plan B (no Brexit) would work in the first place.

    This is what the prime minister of Belgium, our ally – according to Mr Doyle – in stopping the super-state and in retaining Ireland as a nation state, though about the Belgian nation: the 176-year-old Belgian nation was an “accident of history united by nothing more than the “king, the national football team and certain brands of beer”.

    Rather aptly, asked to sing the Belgian national anthem, he did not know it.

    Authorities in Belgium are trying to prevent the circulation of a list of suspected or convicted paedophiles:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/874363.stm

    • Deco

      Maybe Kevin Doyle wants a union of peado-tolerant regimes, between Ireland and Belgium.

      • Truthist

        Irish State has a lot of Politicos [ Civil Servants, & Politicians, & Lobbyists, & Journalists ]in the land of Marc Dutreaux since the 1970′s.

        Should there not be deep investigation were any of these people involved in Paedophilia ?
        e.g.
        Dutreaux’s revelations to the Coppers in Belgium.
        After all, the Pedophilia organisation that Dutreaux was involved in was for bribing & black-mailing — CONTROLLING — influential Politicos for certain secret services
        including
        Mshd

        Search Terms into Google.com

        Dutroux in Belgium AND top civil servant Demmink in Netherlands

        https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ymp2V-yaBMHcvgSDs6WACA&fg=1#q=Dutroux+in+Belgium+AND++top+civil+servant+Demmink+in+Netherlands

        Very likely that there were Irish of any of these Politico sectors involved because for instance, the E.U. took away our sole rights to our Fishing Waters for zilch & at their ease !

        And, upon learning for sure what the situation is — Yay or Nay — about any Irish clientele for Dutreaux, will the Irish State’s Garda-Landlords inform the Irish public ?
        Naw, I think not.

        So, I do not believe them what they are saying about missing boy Philip Cairns now.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Btw, thanks for that interesting De Valera-Kennedy-Morrison visa clue, Truthist.

          So Dev was useful for something after all. Well, Ireland could have done better than Dev (Michael Collins), but it might have done much worse too (James ‘cheap whore’ Larkin spy)

          • Truthist

            Larkin for the Communist Internationale ==> Rothschilds World Government so Grzegorz.

            U are of the view that ;

            Dev. useful for having finally stemmed the mass-imigration to USA ?

            An aside ;
            Grzegorz, only very very few Irish posters on Irish blogs are quick on the uptake.
            The rest just indulge themselves in saying :

            “Muppets the lot of them.”

            &

            other non-poignant contributions.

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        I think the truth is even worse, Deco.
        Probably Mr Kevin Doyle – as befits the political editor – did not even bother to check the actual data on corporation tax (and when I corrected him, he chose to ignore it – therefore I went public on him), and he simply thought: which countries do I like?
        Hmm, Sweden for sure – Sweden means tall blondies with long legs, Denmark – good beer, own currency, and Belgium (he probably has some friends in Belgium as even I personally know many Irish who emigrated there).
        Thus he came up with the list of three countries Ireland should ally with on corporation tax – Belgium, Sweden and Denmark.

        But there are some commentators in Indo that are actually professionals: David McWilliams of course, but I also value highly – above all Mr John Downing, Mr Paul Williams is not too bad either. Mr Dan O’Brien certainly has some agenda in mind, but it is consistent, so perhaps that’s not a weakness. Often though the best page are the letters and chess puzzles. They really do not have anyone in Sport section to write on Formula 1.

    • Truthist

      Belgium was formed as a country by the main powers of Europe so as to restrain Netherlands from becoming more powerful.
      Also served to buffer France from expanding … into Belgium 8-)

  13. coldblow

    The taxi driver said she was concerned about immigration because of resources not race. She would say this, wouldn’t she? And if so, why would she feel she had to say so? Is this shared ‘feeling’ of nationality unrelated to the prospect on demographic trends of becoming a minority in your own country in a not all that distant future? Is the concentration on eastern European immigrants a proxy for Africans and Asians because you can’t put it like that? If concerns about racism, albeit well intentioned and firmly based on history, reason and morality, are dealt with by making the issue a taboo doesn’t this risk an even bigger backlash in the future (a backlash that may not, of course, ever occur, and hopefully never will)? Is the assumption well founded that existing minorities support further immigration (with the exception of members of their own extended family)?

    I am also surprised by David’s dyed in the wool hyper-tolerant liberal Brexiteer. I have been poking fun at my sister on Facebook and there the reaction has been uniformly hysterical, including questioning the legitimacy of democracy. The thing is, she had never to my knowledge mentioned the EU until the other day.

    Good article though.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Coldblow,

      I think I replied to your cabbie question with posting two videos showing the English fans affronting the flags of the only people they have guts to mock – the whites; and with a link of the one of Britain First leaders appeal to Poles.

      “Is the concentration on eastern European immigrants a proxy for Africans and Asians because you can’t put it like that?”

      Yep. Plus other countries trying to destabilise Britain via their agents of influence (check the financial capital structure of British tabloids).

      To be honest with you, at this stage I am tired and annoyed with amateurism from both sides in Britain – the Brecsemians and the Remainians. They are both played out like kids by Germany (and, to a lesser extend, Russia). No one is thinking of Ireland’s interest in a non-childish way. Those in Ireland who want to leave want to just copy Britain, those who want to remain send Mr Kenny to stand on his paws, make the begging puppy eyes and hope that this will give Ireland the special status ‘because we are Irish’. Ok, the Taoiseach had more guts this time than he ever had because he spoke for Scotland, but the reality is he got nothing. Meanwhile the real politics was being made in Prague, with serious players in the background (the US).
      Even rational commentators go insane and look at high-corporation tax countries to protect the low-corporation tax and nation states. German police is stopping cars in Szczecin within the framework Euroregions concept to help their Polish friends (they did everything to ensure it’s quicker to drive from Wroclaw and Poznan to Berlin than to Warsaw).

      No one in Ireland thinks how to reform and devolve the f…g thing. Even David is delusional about it (he thinks that Ireland can do it with Scandinavia and British ‘friends’ alone – no, Ireland needs ALL other EU countries (apart maybe from dodgy Greeks to act against Germany/France/Benelux/Spain) AND THE US OR CHINA to STAND ANY CHANCE to retain her tax regime and remants of self-governance. If people do not understand such a simple thing (one only needs to take calculator and statistical data to calculate the potentials), maybe I am wasting my time trying to carve out whatever sovereingty in possible ceteris paribus

      http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/jun/29/poland-seeks-a-say-in-post-brexit-renewal-of-europ/

      Btw, I have written an open letter to Mr Peter Hitchens:

      Peter,

      I shall skip the issues of BBC journalism (this could be best dealt with by resorting to twattleology, if there was such line of enquiry). On Mr Corbyn I only have this to say – the bum-resembling Trotskyite reminds me somewhat of the open letter that his fellow Trotskyite Mr Jacek Kuron wrote to the Polish United Workers Party in 1965, in which letter he criticised the Party for diverting from the path of communism and for tolerating the then hugely popular Catholic Church (his pal Prof. Geremek, Poland’s 90s Foreign Minister, was a member of Grand Orient de France) – such is Mr Corbyn’s disconnect with the general mood.

      But I am digressing – Britain first.

      You say, ‘those already established (in the single market – G.K.) will have to be dislodged by force – ie by politicians and bureaucrats interposing themselves between buyers and sellers who would, left to their own devices, continue on their merry way unimpeded.’, and you therefore propose to ‘guarantee freedom of access by road and rail to Scotland and the island of Ireland without let, hindrance or tariff and require that all trade will continue, tariff free as now. Who could object to that?’ – you ask rhetorically. My answer – Germany and France can object to that, and object they will.

      The only Brexit option that would allow Britain the tariff-free trade to continue is the Norwegian option. That means 95% (per head) of Britain’s present fee (for the access to EEA), with 0% subsidy in return, and Britain will still have to allow all EU immigration and follow all EU regulations (which will be just faxed to Britain).

      In 2011 Norway tried not to implement o n e EU regulation (they tried to retain control over their postal service) and the EU threatened Norway with an immediate loss of access to the single market (via so the called ‘guillotine clause’).

      So what about the Swiss option? Switzerland has no access to EU’s financial market, which generates the vast majority of Britain’s GDP.

      So what about the Canadian option – a free trade agreement? Well, if Britain is ready to wait for 7 years, then yes, it is an option for Britain (by which time Britain will probably become a caliphate anyway, which will result in eastern European countries introducing Australian-style point systems for those Britons who do not want their daughters appearance to resemble tents).

      But Britain is too big to be treated like Norway – Germany cannot afford closing British access to the single market because they run a huge trade surplus– that’s what you are probably thinking.

      Well guess what – do you know what has been Germany’s main export market for the last 20 years? Not the US, not China, but the Visegrád Group countries – yet Germany is treating those countries like colonies.

      In the current situation – with the Chinese-Russian-German alliance looming large in the horizon – may I suggest what I would be more worried of keeping in good nick than NHS? Your nuclear deterrent.

      • coldblow

        Grzegorz,

        Interesting post if pessimistic though I’m not optimistic either.

        I’m still on a tablet so can’t write much.

        The England fans thing is interesting because it brings out the moralizing in people and they are, as you say, an acceptable target. I was arguing on YouTube last week. The Russian fans attacked what appear to be known as ‘scarfers’ or ordinary, albeit boorish, fans and not the proper hooligans. I used to see a lot of the latter in my teenage years and would not be inclined to draw them onto me, with or without martial arts training. Whatever one may think of them cowards are they not. The fans themselves play up the whole xenophobe thing and I wouldn’t take it at face value. Likewise the Irish ‘aren’t we great lads, everyone loves us’ is (at least I hope it is) to an extent tongue in cheek.

        The thing about Brexit is that it is likely to be fudged and a compromise reached that will be independence in name only as the establishment is solidly in favour of Europe, whatever some of them claim and the parties don’t represent the Excites. This is Hitchens’s argument and he hopes (a slim hope) that politics will be realigned to give them a voice.

        As you know I have ny own psychological take which I won’t repeat here.

        If you understand Swedish (a basic if perfectly serviceable language) look up videos by the economist Tino Sanandaji, a Kurdish immigrant. There may well be stuff in English too. He can (as he says himself) say things about the refugee situation which others simply cannot say because the subject is taboo.

        • coldblow

          By the way I doubt the British nuclear deterrent exists independently of the Americans. To that extent it is a waste of money. I know very little but I don’t think it can be used without their cooperation.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            “I doubt the British nuclear deterrent exists independently of the Americans. To that extent it is a waste of money”

            No it does not, and this is the point: UK will now either tie even closer military and economic links with the US (or China) or they will become insignificant. But the US is now sick of paying for defending other countries (Germany ie receives 0.25% of their GDP via US bases, while Poland is one of the few NATO countries keeping the 2% target), and Britain cannot really afford neutrality without the nuclear deterrent.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Colblow,
          I think there are at least two simultenous things going on in this complex state of affairs that are not to be confused.

          The first thing is:

          “I was arguing on YouTube last week. The Russian fans attacked what appear to be known as ‘scarfers’ or ordinary, albeit boorish, fans and not the proper hooligans. I used to see a lot of the latter in my teenage years and would not be inclined to draw them onto me, with or without martial arts training.”

          Yes, and I have written that – it’s too tiresome and time consuming to find anything on this website due to its poor design (i.e. no ‘search’ option that goes across the whole history) – when I was mocking President Hollande for being afraid of Polish hooligans because there is a civil war in the Ukraine (he remember that Ukraine coorganised Euro 2012 with Poland and must have thought they are confederated – similar to President Clinton not knowing what country he was visiting), when it was the Russian fans that turned out to be dangerous (but France has this love-affair with Russia harking back to 19th century and they see them via the prism of Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Stravinsky and their beloved Trotsky).

          I also raised the possibility of Spez-naz being used in Euro 2016 to destabilise the situation in France.

          The second thing is separate, and that’s the thing I was talking about: English hooligans burned the Polish and Russian flags because they have no guts to burn the ISIS flag – and now they would be probably afraid to burn the Russian flag too.

          All they do is yap, yap, yap, talk gobshite in pubs, show their ugly asses as in that video, but if you asked them to foray into Muslim districts of London and bring back the English law, hardly anyone would come (in fact the English people who do have the guts to do so, people from Britain First, are led by a girl, and have to rely on eastern European cowardly UKiP has derided so much).

          Same with the Swiss – during the Poland-Switzerland match you could see that Kuba Blaszczykowski was hit in his face by a Swiss fan when he carelessly run along the Swiss sector and the Swiss fans started throwing bottles at the Polish goalkeeper after they deservingly lost (because they are a shite team).

          But then they accused Poland of racism because a dislectic commentator confused their player Embolo with Ebola and then made a joke about it, laughing at himself:

          http://www.archyxx.com/em-ticker-racism-scandal-in-polish-tv/

          And this is because, as I said, the whites are exempted from Orwellian PC laws, so they can criticise them in their hypocrisy.

          “The thing about Brexit is that it is likely to be fudged and a compromise reached that will be independence in name only as the establishment is solidly in favour of Europe” – yes I am afraid so (we shall see which one of us was right on Britain leaving after all!), though to be honest, at this stage, when things are in statu nascendi, I think that there is a genuine will from Germany/France/Benelux to kick Britain out. Perhaps they even deliberately let their secret document to be copied and leaked to Polish TV in order to precipitate Britain’s decision and then bring about the Europe of two speeds?

          P.S. No EEA without freedom of labour movement – how come this has suddenly become news? I have been writing about it since like ever (ie. with my discussion with Joxer89, who – as well as UKiP voters – did not understand how the EEA law works and when I wrote:

          “1. Being in the EU of sovereign nations limited to four freedoms would be the best thing (provided the EU does not wage trade war with Commonwealth).
          2. If the EU turns into an overly regulated super-state with harmonised high taxes and Mr. Schulz saying force needs to be used, as he did, then it’s better to be out – maybe with a status like Norway.
          So the question is not in or out, but in or out in WHAT?”

          he replied

          “You can’t have four freedoms without levelling the playing field.
          The only possible solution to The EU’s democratic deficit is a proper federal structure.
          The national governments are its cause.”

          to which I replied

          “The best way of levelling the playing field is to simplify the EU law (the vast majority of the EU law is superfluous) and to leave tax and other issues in the hands of the Member States.”

          You see, do you know what is really funny? That the very thing which I most liked in UKiP’s program (deregulating and opening UK to competition from out-of-EU countries by abolishing CAP and thus lowering food prices) seems to be the opposite of most UKiP voters envisaged (which was to close the country to competition from Eastern European workers while retaining subsidies to agriculture and bringing back the butskellism style subsidies to manufacturing, believing naively this would raise the wages in Britain).

          Just think of this: 87% of income of farmers in Northern Ireland are subsidies – apart from the actual hard work they do, the EU pays them mainly for NOT growing anything (and some of them still have to rely on foreign labour).

          Now, they wanted NI to leave folling DUP. If UKiP is going to keep their promise and switch Britain off CAP which would result in food prices being lower, that’s fine for me – will it be fine for UKiP voters though?

          P.S. I would be very curious to see the link to your YouTube video.

          • coldblow

            Grzegorz

            I am back at home now and have a keyboard again!

            Here is the Sanandaji video. I found one with English subtitles, which will help me with the bits I missed.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMt8zkSP9xE

          • coldblow

            As for UKIP I know very little about them. I don’t really have the time to follow the news and what I do have I tend to devote to other things.

            As for UKIP’s attitude to eastern Europe perhaps the end of this article by Peter Hitchens may explain.

            http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/06/a-interview-with-a-polish-website.html

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Thanks, I will watch the video on immigration (I usually listen to those links while doing something else). I posted this link on immigration, genetics and IQ twice I think but I will re-post it, I think you will like it:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsh_b70NSFQ

            Do you have a YouTube channel of your own?

            I have found a very balanced in Indo opinion on English chauvinism (I distinguish chauvinism from nationalism and patriotism, which I find healthy and desirable), by Ms Allison Pearson.
            As I cannot find an online link, I will type the excerpt for you:

            ‘Distraught Remainers, who only days before had been urging tolerance and respect, insulted the old (for blighting the future of the young), and called Leave voters “sewege” and “scum”. Powerful people, who held almost all the cards in the campaign, simply could not accept that they had lost (how it reminds me of Poland A.D. 2016! – G.K.), One lachrymose Remainer declared that it was “the worst day in Britain since 1939″ (nothing happened in Britain in 1939 – I saw a footage of people in London’s pubs – with sound – on 1 September 1939 – laughing and social chit-chatting as normal – G.K.). [...[

            The Beeb, which managed to be reasonably neutral during the campaign, had moved on from Project Fear to Project Hysterical Over-Reaction. [...]

            And yet, for every disgusting note to an Eastern European family in Huntingdon, there was the Welsh Polish Association, in my home town of Llanelli, which found gorgeous picture of Polish airmen during the war stuck on its door.
            [...]
            Such gestures, far truer to the character of this fundamentally decent and strikingly unracist nation (Austria, anyone?) got little airtime because they failed to fit the narrative of division and hate.”

            By the way, I have the impression that albeit there might be some authentic chauvinism in Britain, someone might be trying to fuel it and put the English and the Poles at odds.

            What are the two European countries geopolitically most troublesome for Russia or/and Germany? Why, England and Poland (and Finland of course).

            Scotland far less. Funny enough, no ‘Polish vermin’ notes in Scotland (Russia was clearly supporting their independence and probably Germany is keeping fingers crossed).

            Funny that coincidence, innit?

            But a strange things is happening – Tsarin Merkel is going to listen to Mr Kaczynski and she will probably sack Mr Juncker…

  14. The disparagement of the democratic process is not limited to Europe but is amply demonstrated in the US too. People may only express a preference, as long as it follows the script of the elites, toward political and economic serfdom.

    http://www.gopusa.com/?p=11863?omhide=true

  15. http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/draghi-lets-create-an-aggressive-globalized-central-banking-monopoly-to-destroy-the-world/

    “Draghi:” Let’s Create An Aggressive, Globalized Central Banking Monopoly to Destroy the World”

    “Conclusion: Economies are already unbalanced from decades of central banking manipulation. The next swing could be the most violent of all. It could literally destroy economies around the world. Of course, by then Draghi may have left his post. It will be someone else’s problem: yours and ours.”

    Basically, to stabilize the world, we need to fire the central banking cartel.

  16. “In fact, the US ought to get rid of monopoly fiat money, which creates vast businesses cycles that benefit the very largest corporations, and “intellectual property rights” that enhance the competitive stature of only a very few corporations. The explosion of prosperity and freedom would be noticeable.

    Conclusion: Trump is on the right track when it comes to corporatism. If he manages to reduce corporate influence over the GOP, that would be a valuable achievement.

    Posted in STAFF NEWS & ANALYSIS”

    http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/large-corporations-aid-the-expansion-of-authoritarian-government/

    Not only do we need rid of the banking cabal but also the trade pacts that elevate corporations above the status and legal rights of nation states, not to mention citizen Joe.

  17. Deco

    Comical Juncker.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/2016/06/23/20160630_farage.jpg

    Juncker is trying to prevent a media photographer taking a picture of Farage. Juncker is a dithering fool.

    This is what the (corrupt) EPP put in charge of the EU Commission.

  18. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Everyone,

    Market for top 100 companies in the UK bottomed at 6004 on Monday. Price today; 6563.

    Al Pacino says it so well 6 seconds;

    https://youtu.be/_q_wgw8CsQA

  19. michaelcoughlan

    Hi,

    Brexit all came down to one thing in my view;

    The british KNOW the price of democracy.

    This is how it was won in ww2 omly scenes from movies but not for the faint of heart;

    https://youtu.be/h5p5j_K0CsY?t=112

    This is how it was won in the trenches;

    https://youtu.be/4zBQGY_p4QM?t=58

    • McCawber

      Holding some £stg might not be a bad idea?
      What do you reckon?
      Does coinage have any inherent value anymore?

  20. survivalist

    Specifically as to the question by Deco “Let’s ask the Irish workers in Australia, who went to the other side of the world to get away from the EU. Do they miss the dictates?

    I don’t’ know whether this was an ironical comment or not. But if it’s not then I am happy to report the short answer. Things are very much worse in Australia with respect to State/Corporate dominance.

    Australia is the epitome of a business managed democracy, and for a superb resource explaining all that this entails sees the link below, from the work of Prof Sharon Beder:

    It presents a forensic analysis of the history of business union’s efforts and grasping control over the State and their present day control of Government, Education, Environment and most importantly Culture

    http://herinst.org/BusinessManagedDemocracy/

    The most fascinating thing which has emerged from the ‘Brexit shock’ and the media and public discourses on the matter is the revelation that democracy (and freedom of speech) are on a par with treasured museum antiques; nice to look at, some historical relevance but reserved only for very special occasions usually to a paying clientele.

    Most people simply do not believe in democracy. What they believe in is getting what they want.

    Democracy is valued if it delivers his or her own preferences. If it can’t do this then it is seen as too risky and will be happily traded for the security of ‘wise dictates’, ‘economic efficiency’, ‘security’, ‘scientific veritas’, ‘health and safety’ etc., etc., etc. as it has been.

    Whatever works. Pragmatism. The means to an end. These are the cornerstone values of modern society. Fantastic and why not, we are all in survival mode. But it must be understood that’ whatever works’ is anathema to integrity.

    Most people have now firmly internalised the belief system that people are the means to an end and not intrinsically valuable. Maybe that’s old news, but the idea of democracy as a value in itself seems like nonsense these days.

    Also does anyone have a voter decision break down based on their yearly income? That’s usually an interesting indicator.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Maybe that’s old news, but the idea of democracy as a value in itself seems like nonsense these days.”

      Which is why brexit happened. The brits like I said know the price of democracy.

  21. Posted at Lemetropolecafe

    Ireland:

    Irish and UK leaders will work together for best Brexit outcome: EurActiv reported that Irish Prime Minister Kenny, who yesterday sought to dispel concerns that Brexit would disrupt the peace process between Northern Ireland and the Republic, and said the UK would fight to keep free movement between the two countries. “We’ve had the common travel area since 1922 and the EU itself is involved in the peace process,” Kenny said. He also called relations with the UK “stronger than ever before” and said if the UK’s access to the EU single market is cut off, trade with Ireland will suffer.

  22. michaelcoughlan

    Good morning everyone.

    We are now 100 years and approx 3hrs since the start of the battle of the Somme and of course the Irish regiments took some of the worst casualties. On the first day history records the British Army took its worst ever casualty rate 60000 killed and wounded about 20000 killed.

    What is not well known is that by this time in the morning 100 years ago most of the slaughter had already taken place.

    I’d like to share some poetry to remember all those Irish young fellas shamefully written out of Irish history.

    INNOCENCE LOST.

    The nauseating gut retching stench,
    of a meadow full of,
    rotting seventeen year olds,
    is what you experience a week after,
    you order tens of thousands,
    of teenage soldiers,
    to advance across an open meadow,
    headlong into,
    widda, widda, widda, widda, widda, widda withering,
    machine gun fire,
    with nothing more,
    than a cotton tunic for a shield.

    If the cotton tunics were stronger,
    THIS PIECE WOULD BE LONGER.

    Harry potter wasn’t able to wave his magic wand on this occasion;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0V1yRrjMmM

    Green fields of France.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntt3wy-L8Ok

  23. Truthist

    The general standard of posts to articles on most Irish “newspaper” & “other media” websites is known to be woeful.

    The Brits & Yanks are generally vastly superior to us.

    As a result the participants of their economic-political-socio-cultural websites would be well acquainted with the following juicy stuff about good aul Mr. Junkers

    Search Terms entered into Google.com
    .
    .
    Junkers AND Operation Gladio
    .
    .

    https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=ymp2V-yaBMHcvgSDs6WACA&fg=1#q=Junkers+AND+Operation+Gladio
    .
    .
    .
    How come RTE does not tell us about Junkers & his connection with Operation Gladio ?

    Now u know why Minister for Finance Michael Noonan was succumbed to the grave threat from Jean Claude Trichet that the ECB / EU will b..mb Dublin for starters were Irish State to “burn the Bondholders” ;
    The much enthused advice by our Host & the regular Posters here.

  24. Truthist

    For Deco,

    U asked recently for the names of the Bondholders.
    I replied that Guido Fawkes Web Blog published them as scoop a while back ;
    15 Oct 2016

    Knowing that we the people are paying them, why should we not exactly whom every one of them really are ?
    I trust that the Head Honcho of the Garda-Landlords does ;
    After all, he / she surely has not closed the case on that veteran E.U. / E.C.B. Bureaucrat Jean Claude Trichet threatening with personal phone call to Min. for Finance Mr. Michael Noonan that E.U. / E.C.B. [ Rothshcilds ] will for starters b..mb Dublin if we “burn the Bondholders” ?

    Anyways ;

    The expense of future generations?
    Guido has obtained the list of foreign Anglo-Irish bondholders as at the close of business tonight.
    These are the people whom Dublin’s politicians really seem to care about:

    Above text is directly from Link below of Guido-Fawkes web-blog Order-order.com

    Please also look at the immediately following Link ;
    http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2010/10/who-are-the-bond-holders-we-are-bailing-out/

    Ref.
    http://order-order.com/2010/10/15/anglo-irish-bondholders-should-take-the-lossesis-the-ecb-forcing-ireland-to-protect-german-investments/

    Typed & redacted by Truthist.
    Please compare with original viewable through clicking on above Link.

    Aberdeen Asset Mgr.s [ London ] Ltd.
    AGICAM
    Aktia Asset Mgt O Ab
    Aletti Gestielle SGR S.p.A.
    Alliance Bernstein [ UK ] Ltd.
    Alianz Global Investors France SA
    Ampega Gerting Investment GmbH
    Anima SGR S.p.A.
    Arca SGR S.p.A.
    Assenagon Asset Mgt. SA
    Aviso Zeta Bank AG
    Aviva Investors France SA
    Aviva Investors Global Services Ltd.
    Axa Investment Mgr.s Paris
    Baloise Asset Mgt. Schwwiz AG
    Banca Finnat Euroamerica SA
    Bank Sarasin & Cie AG [ Basel ]
    Bankinter Gestion de Activos, SA, SGIIC
    Ban Sabadel Inversion, SA, SGIIC
    Barclays Wealth Mgr.s France BWMF
    BBVA Asset Mgt., SA, SGIIC
    Blue Bay Asset Mgt. Ltd.
    BNP Paribas Asset Mgt. SGR SpA
    BPI Gestao de Activos- SGFIM, SA
    Brown, Shipley & Co. Ltd.
    Caixa Catalunya Gestio, SA, SGIIC
    Carige Asset Mgt. SGR SpA
    CNP Assurances [ Caisse Nationale de Prevoyance ]
    Credit Swisse Asset Mgt. ] CSAM ] [ Zurich ]
    Deka Investment GmbH
    Debruck Bethmann Maffel AG
    Deutsche Asset Mgt. Investmentgesellschaft mbH [ DeAM ]
    DWS Investment GmbH
    EFG Bank [ Luxembourg ] SA
    ERESTE-SPARINVEST Kapitalanlagegesellschaft mbH
    Esca SA
    Ethna Capital Patners SA
    European Credit Mgt. Ltd. [ ECM ]
    Federal Finance Gestion
    Frankfurt – Trust Investment – Gelellschaft mbH
    Goldman Sachs Asset Mgt. International [ GSAMI ]
    Halbis Capital Mgt. [ France ]
    HSBC Private Wealth Mgr.s
    HYPO-Kapitalanlage-Gesellschaft mbH
    ING Investment Mgt. [ Netherlands ]
    Invercaixa Gestion, SGIIC, SAU
    IQAM GmbH
    KBC Asset Mgt. NV [ Belgium ]
    Kepler-Fonds Kapitalanlagesesellschaft mbH
    La Banque Postale Asset Mgt.
    LBBW Asset Mgt. GmbH
    Lombard Odier Darier Hentsch [ UK ] Ltd.
    Millennium BCP = Gestao de Fundos de Investimento – SGFI, SA
    Montepio Gestao de Activos SGFI, SA
    Neuflize OBC Investissement
    NORD / LB Kapitalanlagegesellschaft AG
    Nordea Investment Mgt. A/S [ Denmark ]
    Nordea Investment Mgt. AB Norge [ Oslo ]
    Old Mutual Asset Mgr.s [ UK ] Ltd.
    OPERA – Kwiatkowski 1 Wspolcicy Splka Komandytowo-Akyjna
    Pioneer Investment Mgt. [ Ireland ] Ltd.
    Pioneer Investments Kapitalanlagegessellschaft mbH [ Munich ]
    Pioneer Investments Austria GmbH
    Pojola Asset Mgt. Ltd.
    Portfotio Invest Anlageberatung GmbH
    Ralffeisen Kapitalantage-Gesellschaft mbH
    Rothschild & Compagnie Gestion
    Royal London Asset Mgt. Ltd.
    SEB Asset Mgt. AG
    SGSS KAG mbH
    SNS Asset Mgt. NV
    Societe Generale Gestion
    Union Investment Institutional GmbH
    Union Investment Privatfonds GmbH
    Universal-Investment-Gesellschaft mbH
    VPV Bankers NV
    W & W Asset Mgt. GmbH
    WGZ BANK Luxembourg

    • Truthist

      Typos :
      .
      .
      This is only “partial” list.
      .
      .

      I replied that Guido Fawkes Web Blog published them as scoop a while back ;
      .
      .
      15 Oct 2010
      .
      .
      Knowing that we the people are paying them, why should we not KNOW exactly whom every one of them really are ?

  25. “Conclusion: Centralization on so many fronts is bound to create further instability of the sort that Brexit is already being blamed for. In fact, Brexit will also be blamed for the inevitable, destructive consequences of further amalgamation and coordination. These consequences are inevitable because of the moves Brussels is making.”

    http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/brexit-is-justifying-aggressive-eu-banking-and-political-centralization/

    The UK’s lucky escape from the EU superstate and the reduction of nation states to vassals.

  26. Kiss Your Domestic Bias Goodbye, Central Bankers of the World … In a globalized world, managing domestic economic conditions requires having one eye focused abroad. For evidence, look no farther than the global monetary policy fallout from Britain’s June 23 vote to leave the European Union. – Bloomberg

    http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/central-bankers-use-brexit-to-argue-for-increasing-financial-centralization/

    ““Is there contagion? What does Ireland do? What does Scotland do? What do other EU countries do?” Kaplan said. “It will take a significant amount of time to see how all that unfolds.”

  27. Politicians who make promises they later abandon are disgraceful and should not be allowed to run for office.–Trump

    http://www.gopusa.com/?p=11956?omhide=true

  28. Brexit caused a move but G and s are responding to fundamental financial and monetary problems. Mining shares are up 80-120% since January. Not reported in the MSM it is a stealth resumption of the PM bull market.

    http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-gold-silver-best-performing-assets-in-h1-2016–up-26-and-38-.aspx?article=8647913336H11690&redirect=false&contributor=Mark+O%27Byrne

  29. Hillary lies, get used to it.
    The Fed loans cheap cash to selected banks to allow insider buying of shares to boost the stock price so executives earn millions in bonuses. Save the banks at all costs and the economy is toast.

    http://usawatchdog.com/weekly-news-wrap-up-7-1-16-greg-hunter/

  30. There is no such thing as a free market. They are all rigged

    http://schiffgold.com/key-gold-news/most-americans-believe-the-economy-is-rigged-theyre-right/

    “The Federal Reserve is prepared to provide dollar liquidity through its existing swap lines with central banks, as necessary, to address pressures in global funding markets, which could have adverse implications for the US economy.”

  31. http://www.wealthdaily.com/articles/british-independence-day/8244

    “”When it comes to trade agreements such as NAFTA, GATT, and TPP, these are often labeled as free-trade agreements. But you don’t need hundreds or thousands of pages of regulations to have free trade. You simply need the government on both sides to step out of the way.

    These trade agreements are not free trade. They are managed trade. They could be viewed favorably if they keep others from erecting tariffs, but why do you need hundreds of pages just to do that?”"

  32. Truthist

    It is impossible to understand Economics or History without studying the writings & speeches etc. of Eustace Mullins.

    Here is what I consider to be the most perceptive comment to have been uttered in the last 1,950 years ;
    .
    .
    .

    “They are doing terrible things to u because they hate u.
    And, they hate u because they are doing terrible things to u.”

    Ref. Mr. Mullins, Eustace

    • McCawber

      He’s wrong. You have to “care” enough to hate someone, they don’t care at all.

      • Truthist

        I wondered about that qualification on that very important human motivation [ Hate ] for many a year.

        It does trip the listener upon they immediately hearing of it, I grant that.
        And, women — especially of the “loose women” Woman’s Way to Cosmopolitan twenty to 50 somethings readership — are the most reliable to interject with it.
        But, I have witnessed male black-belt martial artists, & male special forces soldiers, say it too with conviction.

        But, after contemplation of history, current world affairs, & my own life observations, & even my own self, I decided that a person can hate AND never having cared for or loved the other person or thing.

        Typing as I think [ a version of thinking aloud ], I posit that “thing” of hate is a very good example to support my thesis.
        At least it is more convenient at this time.

        e.g. of Thing

        Particular creatures of animal category

        Snakes
        I hate snakes ; I speak of the non-legged variety here
        AND
        I never have cared, for or loved, or wished to do so, them in any way.

        Ditto, “Cockroaches”.

        However, when it comes to human beings, my conscience & my up=bringing [ by Irish hypocrites ; Do as I say, & not as I do ], & my religion, has me conditioned to hate the crime but not the person.
        It is a discipline perhaps more than a natural pre=disposition to not hate in the vast majority of typical human beings.
        I think that Tavistock Folk / Psychiatrists / Psychologists / Interrogators / Military Personnel / Torturers are skilled, at & motivated to, breaking a person into being a hater even if that person has a very strong disposition to not hate.
        Normally, it is more likely the family & the culture [ including the religion ] rather than a person having a malign nature that is the strongest influence on making a person into a hater ;
        Even beyond “An Eye for an Eye ; And, a Tooth for a Tooth”, it appears that there are people hating other people who never personally did anything to them, or even met them.
        And, these haters certainly never cared, or care, for them.

        The topic of “Hate” is a whopper important one for sure.
        If discussing the Rothschilds, the topic of “Hate” would be worthy of doing a PhD on in “Economics”.
        In near future, I aim to look up what Aristotle had to say about it.

        Meanwhile, I still believe that Eustace Mullins is spot on about the folks who are hell bent on destroying us when he says ;

        “The are doing terrible things to u because they hate u ;
        And, they hate u because they are doing terrible things to u.”

        Of course, it is the latter sentence of this double-saying which is the seeming paradox.
        But, it is true ;

        Thanks McCawber for ur helpful replies.

        I thought about ur suggestion that Irish State would be the better to have UK still in the E.U. ;
        And, I concur as mentioned in reply to u earlier.
        Both UK & Irish State are not ready to deal with the immediate outcome of UK departing E.U..
        Necessary is incredible change of heart in the populace & excellent planning [ secret also ] etc. & complete cleansing of politicos by each country prior to exit.
        Is UK currently even capable of this ;
        No in near term.
        Not without collapse of the state.
        Because, the Lower Middle Class downwards are rotten now.
        If they not rotten ; ==> U have a fighting chance.
        Of course it would be wonderful to have the Upper Middle Class be not rotten ;
        But, that seems to never happen.

        Ditto Irish State.

        I like ur approach McCawber ;
        Dealing with the pertinent matters in a bright constructive way.

        I believe we are having a positive effect on the country ;
        Because there are a great many who read this blog though they do not post, that will further promulgate truth & questions.

        • McCawber

          Very interesting take on hate and hard to argue with.

          These people don’t care about anything.
          It’s not personal they are some kind of “pathic”.
          Certainly any ability to distinguish between right and wrong must be almost non existent and maybe with that goes a lack of empathy.
          Hate implies emotion, I suspect we are talking about very cold blooded people with absolutely massive EGOs.
          They may well despise us, is that a subset of hate (perhaps it is), if so, I may simply be splitting hairs.

          It would be interesting to know who “these people” and/or why are they so full of “hate”.

  33. Truthist

    Grzegorz,

    Further to ur Chinese-Russian-German alliance forecast ;

    I can only envisage it as ;

    Chinese-Russian-EU [ with Germany subsumed like all the other then "definitely former European nations" ] alliance.

    The E.U. is essentially a FREEMASON Project on behalf of the ROTHSCHILDS.

    E.U. serves 2 primitive & ancient motivations for the Roths :

    1.
    destruction of the tribe of Japheth through genocide, non-reproduction, & miscegnation with Shem & Ham ;
    Although, the indigenous peoples of Ireland — the Hibero ; Hence, Hibernia — are originally of the tribe of Shem ;
    Fancy that !
    Roths surely know that for yonks ?

    I know, the above is crazy spiteful stuff from the Roths.
    But, it is true.
    They are adamant on fulfilling their part in eschatology.

    Should they not consider the lilies in the field ?
    Or the birds in the trees ?

    There is a lot to be said for a good cup of tea also.

    I could go on … but alas.

    And, so, onto Roths’ motivation primitive & ancient 2 o 2

    2.
    conquest of Europe — territory & peoples == as part of Roths’ conquest of the whole world.

    Patrick Mc Goohan [ Irish man ] turned down the role of Seamus Bond ahead of the role being offered to Sean Connery.
    Mc Goohan thought the role to be immoral.
    And, he ever loving of his wife, stipulated in his contracts with the studios that there was to be no kissing for him.
    Great actor, script writer, director, producer, inter alia.
    A very talented man.

    We need a Seamus Bond pronto methinks.

  34. McCawber

    Something that has been bugging me for a good while.
    Jeremy Corbyn.
    Where’s he at.
    A professed pro EUite but he went missing.
    Very very left wing.
    His body language is very self aware and self possessed – what you see is not what you get.
    Corbyn doesn’t fit any kind of mid stream Labour Party.
    The Labour party has always had a whiff of communism.
    Makes you wonder.
    If democracy is failing or under pressure what will replace.?
    I wish to hell Project Utopia would get a move on – the other alternatives don’t look to appealing.

    • coldblow

      Tony, I think Corbin is an old-style socialist who can’t nationalize in Britain with EU interference. He probably sees the capitalistic menace of Brussels as outweighing the cuddle multi cult element. He voted against the bombing of Syria; remember Benn’s Churchillian speech in favour, undermining him? As for your fevered comments under your Cooldude moniker, Tony, about Philip Cairns, the recent allegations fit the familiar pattern of fantasy and delusion in what has become known as savilisation. Wait and see, they will all collapse and be quietly forgotten. The family doesn’t need all this crazy, attention seeking nonsense.

      • coldblow

        Correction, not the dude that is cool this time, but ‘Truthist’. There are so many it is hard to keep up.

        • Your a sad sack coldblow with this blog’s only conspiracy product that is a result of your own delusions.

          I, Tony, am myself. cooldude is his own man with his own writing style and opinions, truthist is one of a kind with a writing and grammatical style I often have trouble reading, never mind writing, and Macawber again a unique individual. Trying to suggest we are one and the same is preposterous. Please give up this particular quest. It is silly, and relegates all your opinion to the waste basket.

          • coldblow

            Tony, when challenged brazen it out. Remember I have previous experience of this kind of thing. I recall you admitting to Adam a few months ago that you didn’t invest in a particular tip of his because you were on a pension. I assume it is a disability pension and I was, in fact, already working on that assumption. If you are able to post around the clock then you are able to go out and get gainful employment. If it was just you, Cooldude (“Agree 100%, Tony”), Truthist and McCawber (you know how you usually spell it) it would be bad enough but you have a whole cast on the go and every one is a cliché. Is it manic depression? Does your boat exist? Remember, the one you use for exhilarating races when the sun shines. What about the story of when you were bullied at school and beat up five (or was it more?) of your assailants, all in one go? More fantasy. Whatever you say Tony I don’t believe a word of it. If it is any consolation there are a lot like you around. Ireland is well provided for in that department and always was. So please accept the advice you gave me yourself: go out and do something useful, get some fresh air. And give up the bull shitting.

          • Coldblow
            I will violate my own rule of abiding by debate of the issues and playing the ball not the man.

            However you violate the rules of engagement by your personal effrontery. You have absolutely zero evidence for anything you say. It is rational for me to say that as the evidence is not there. I speak the truth, you speak in innuendo and suggestion.
            Yours is the art of the propagandist set to destroy the truth and propagate lies of all kinds.

            You are either sent here to deviously, deliberately malign me and others , to sow seeds of doubt, or you are a very sick person. There is another thought which is you are totally mad.

            The fact you admit that this is not your first experience of discerning multiple characters from a singular person is revealing. You must be on the hunt , on the look out for such events. The problem, I suggest, starts in your head. That is where these ideas originate.

            Of course, in such a case there is no explanation offered will be accepted. Any reasonable protestation, will be dismissed, even the statements from others will be refused.

            There are some on this blog who know me personally and of them some also know others you suggest are actually me. They know you are a nut bar. You have proven it yourself without any help from me. The three amigos you mention also know this truth.

            By the way, besides Truethist, cooldude and McCawber who else on the blog is associated with me, pray tell?

          • Truthist

            U obviously have an aversion for Gold & Silver.
            And, the great outdoors too u reminding us of u being on so many other blogs.

            U should get out more often ;
            Go gold-panning in Co. Wicklow I suggest.

            It would do ur health well, & if u are lucky bring u into some real money.

  35. Pat Flannery

    I am running out of people to whom I can respond on this site. Reflecting on that I have been forced to think about our host, David himself. Is he just a very tolerant host as Adam insists or is he in some way responsible for the more and more Trumpesque drift on this site?

    The parallels with Boris Johnston are more compelling. We know that Johnston receives £275,000 per year from the Daily Telegraph for his newspaper column. We don’t know how much David receives from the Irish Independent or from the Sunday Business Post (that remains his private business as unlike Boris he has never ran for public office), but just as Boris does not need any other income, neither does David. Like Boris, David is in the newspaper column business.

    There is always work for a fantasist. Realists have a tough time in this world. Tell me about it. Boris and David understand that, otherwise they would not be successful columnists. Having led the gullible British masses astray as the Pied Piper of Brexit, Boris now just shrugs the whole thing off and puts his magic flute away until his next fantasy.

    The Pied Piper of Hamlin made his reputation by ridding the town of rats (believed to be the carriers of plague), luring them away with his magic flute. David made his reputation by predicting a hard rather than a soft landing to the property boom. He was proven right.

    Just as the Pied Piper did not receive the recognition he deserved from the officials of Hamlin, David feels aggrieved with ‘’Official Ireland’’ for not giving him the recognition he undoubtedly deserves for predicting the property crash and the resultant banking crisis.

    Unfortunately, just as the Pied Piper wrought his revenge by leading the children of Hamlin away to an undetermined fate, David is now using his two newspaper columns as a magic flute to lure the Pope’s Children away from the reality of membership of the EU. Like the Pied Piper neither Boris nor David ever identified the fantasy place to where they would lead the gullible masses of these islands. Like the children of Hamlin, perhaps it was easier not to know.

    Perhaps also that is why there is so much fantasy being expressed by David’s followers on this site. All I know is that it is very difficult to respond to fantasy.

    • McCawber

      I’m sensing a sense of disillusionment from you.
      Personally I’m starting to get a feeling of outrage.
      The governments of the EU are bailing the prudent savers into the morass that is the banking system.
      In other words screw the punter and save the poor.
      Can you relate to that or do you think the governments are correct.

      • Pat Flannery

        McCawber: your question is unclear to me.

      • McCawber

        Meant save the elite..

        • Pat Flannery

          McCawber: so, as I understand your question now it is whether I agree with you or not that the EU member governments are collectively and deliberately favouring a wealthy elite at the expense of its ordinary citizens. No, I do not agree.

          But I am glad to see by your wording that you recognise that it is the member GOVERNMENTS that collectively make all EU executive decisions, not some faceless body of unelected bureaucrats, as many gullible people in the UK were misled into believing by certain unscrupulous newspaper columnists, or that there exists in Brussels some dark force David calls the ‘’nomenclatura’’.

          Peddling such deliberate misinformation for profit is not only immoral, it is very destructive, as we have so recently seen.

          • Truthist

            Pat, thankfully, u are well intentioned & an intelligent & educated & experienced man.

            However, u are totally wrong in ur understanding of the E.U..

            The E.U. is a conspiracy against sovereign nations by the Freemason Elite who secretly run most of the world on behalf of the Banksters [ The Rothschilds ].
            Even in the next lower level of its being u are wrong.
            The executive decisions of the E.U. are made NO LONGER made collectively by the member Governments.
            And, at this stage for sure, in the realisation of this Masonic Dream of a Super-State, even if the member governments were collectively involved they would accede to if not collaborate with the Freemason Egregore ;
            The occult concept representing a “thoughtform” or “collective group mind” of their E.U. Super-State dream for their masters ; The Roths.

            Surely, Pat, in ur extensive career with finance & accounting & brokering etc, u were invited more than once to become a Freemason ?
            And, if u declined, I assume u did so as any wise & upstanding Irish man would find fault for one with UK [ And, in this aspect definitely including each of England, Scotlan, Wales, & North East of Ireland ; Such is Freemasonry's absolute penetration of control ] ?

          • Pat Flannery

            Truthist: funny you should ask if I was ever invited to join the FreeMasons, as a matter of fact I was and what may surprise you even more, I accepted!

            Having spent two years in a Catholic Seminary studying priestly philosophy I knew all about the evil of the Protestant Freemasons. Armed with the condensed knowledge of the learned Catholic Church I wanted to find out if the Masons really had that ”all-seeing eye” as is so widely believed.

            I soon learned that they were just as silly as the Catholic Church. They blamed everything on the Jesuits for example. To me, Monty Python was a lot more interesting.

            I soon left, writing them off as just another silly conspiratorial society. Maybe that’s why I remain mostly dismissive of conspiracy theories and societies to this day.

            But I am glad I got that portion of my education out of the way at a relatively early age.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Pat,
            “it is the member GOVERNMENTS that collectively make all EU executive decisions”

            You are wrong on that. It crucial cases it is the German government that single-handedly makes executive decisions for the EU collective. This was the cases when German Prime Minister went to Minsk to conduct the talks with Russia (bringing Mr Hollande because he wanted to strike a side-deal with Minstrals) IN THE NAME OF ALL EU GOVERNMENTS without consulting them.
            It was Mr Martin Schulz who, without any consultations, said that countries who do not want to take up migrant quotas imposed by Germany will be forced to do so.
            I have attached relevant links (ie with the latter statement) many times and I am tired of doing it again.

          • Pat Flannery

            Grzegorz Kolodziej: My apologies. I must have missed your many relevant links proving that ”in crucial cases it is the German government that single-handedly makes executive decisions for the EU collective”.

            The reason I probably missed them is the extraordinary length of your many posts which would require an inordinate amount of my time to read fully. Perhaps you could try to make them more concise in the future. If you do I guarantee I will read them fully.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            It does not require much time to check how the Minsk talks were conducted and that it was in breach of the EU law as it skipped the EU Council you misleadingly claim make ALL EU DECISIONS (you should remember it anyway as it was not a long time ago).

            The way Nordstream 2 came in to being was not much different from the legal point of view, though here the legalities of it are more complex.

            Btw Germany and France were the first countries to break the Maastricht Treaty but penalised other countries for doing so.

            As to Herr Martin Schulz:

            here is the short version for you:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPt-fMB6EtY

          • Truthist

            Thanks Pat for candid reply.

            And, quite interesting.

            Obviously, u did not get promoted up to higher degrees where u would become compromised & glean real insight into their nefarious ways.

            Pat, I would expect many Jesuits to be Masons now.
            The Vatican is riddled with it.

            If u really have a handle on how vicious the Brits were to Ireland & Irish Catholics in Britain & other parts of Brit. Empire, u would have to attribute much of it to Freemasonry.

            Also, if u had to find fault with UK as a jurisdiction & culture ;
            ==> U would have to say that Freemasonry, & now the addition of Common Purpose organisation, has a profound corrupting control on :

            administration of justice
            House of Lords
            The Commons
            Judiciary
            Magistrates
            Police

            “City” of London
            Finance
            Insurance

            Vulgar Criminal Scene
            Many fraudsters are freemasons
            Top criminal Noye used his Freemason connections to be found not guilty of murdering / manslaughtering a policeman.

            Brit Paedophilia Rings
            Many top freemasons have been Freemasons
            incl.
            Jimmy Saville
            Grenville Jenner
            Leon Britton
            Sir Keith Joseph
            Clement Freud

          • Pat Flannery

            Grzegorz Kolodziej: My point is who is NOT making the decisions i.e. ”not some faceless body of unelected bureaucrats, as many gullible people in the UK were misled into believing by certain unscrupulous newspaper columnists, or that there exists in Brussels some dark force David calls the ’nomenclatura’”.

            You seem to concur that it is GOVERNMENTS making the decisions, albeit some like Germany unfairly jump the gun, which is another issue.

          • Pat Flannery

            Truthist: Yes I failed in both arenas. I failed to become a Catholic priest and I failed to become a potentate in the Masons.

            As for Freemasonry explaining British historic behaviour in any way, I actually have a very high regard for British democracy. But as in all democracies the people can make big mistakes.

            Germany for example was a democracy when Reich President Paul von Hindenburg was forced by democratic processes to appoint Adolf Hitler Reich Chancellor of Germany on 30 January 1933. Not that anything the British ever did came anything close to that enormous democratic error.

            And as for the hidden hand of Freemasonry explaining Brexit, I totally reject that idea. I respect the British democratic decision so much that I use the American vernacular of ‘’don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out’’. That was my immediate reaction and it remains my reaction. No second referendum. The people have spoken. Let’s get on with it.

          • Truthist

            Thanks Pat for ur reply.

            U not becoming a Catholic priest is not “failure”.
            U not continuing to be Freemason ; Ditto

            Pat, the error of Germany to allow Hitler become Chancellor, & the evil he did is surpassed by the evil of the British Empire in many an episode ;

            Genocide of 1/2 the Irish Population by Britain during Cromwell reign for the Banksters who came with him from Amsterdam to London ;
            They not Dutch by the way

            Continual dispatch of Irish to be Slaves in North America & Carribean by Brits. ; Since time of Elizabeth 1

            In fact, most of the Slaves in North America have been Irish.

            Only 6 % of African Slaves went to North America.
            95 % went to Carribean, & Guyana, & Brasil.
            Brasil getting the most.
            Followed by Guyana.

            Genocide of 5.5 million of Irish during the Great Hunger of 1840′s

            Shipment of hundreds of thousands of Irish to Northern States of USA with foreknowledge that they would be press-ganged into Union Army.

            Press-ganging of Irish since time of Elizebeth 1 to serve in Brit. army & merchant shipping & Brit Royal Navy.

            Exploitation of Irish & Brit. paupers in Industrial Revolution in UK.

            Enforced Opium Addiction on Chinese by Brit. Empire on behalf of Sasoons –> Rothschilds

            Willful Genocide of 10 Million — I not sure exactly the number as I no time to look up — in India

            Conspiracy to start WW 1

            Genocide by starvation of 9 million Iranians as part of WW 1

            Concentration Camps & deliberate starvation to death of Boer Infants & Children ; Churchill

            Willfull setting of Lusitania to be sunk & deliberate non-rescuing of survivors ; Churchill

            Setting up of Bolsheviks in Russia with eventual Genocide of 60 million Russians & other ethnic Rus. ; Churchill

            Conspiracy to start WW 2 ; Churchill for Victor Rothschild

            Genocide of Germans during WW 2 :
            Civilians
            Prisoners of War ; Over 1 million German Soldiers starved to death in open death camps in Germany without any shelter whatsoever by Brit & USA command ;
            Churchill & Eisenhower & Truman

            Earmarking of Nagasaki as target for Atomic Bomb Genocide

            Chemical warfare against Arabs in Iraq ; Churchill

            Genocide of 2 million Iraqis since Iraq War 1 ; John Major & Anthony — Charles “Miranda” Lynton — Blair

            Just off the top of my head

            I understand that the bulk of millions of civilian deaths whom Hitler is responsible for were in Poland, & that the widely quoted figure has recently been officially been declared by Poland to be 3 million less than the said widely quoted figure ;
            Thank God that 3 million people did not die out of the millions who did.

          • Truthist

            Pat,

            I meant the above about Brits being worse in many an episode than Hitler was all together as a critique about much lauded Brit. Democracy & Magna Carta & Brit. Sense of Fair Play.

            But, I hope they stay in E.U. ;
            We & they separately are not ready to exit while the populace are f..ked up & both states have real shitty politicians who despise their citizens.

          • Pat Flannery

            Truthist: Wow! I hope nobody on this site ever again accuses me of hating the English. Compared to that contribution I am positively an Anglophile.

            If I had uttered a fraction of it I would have been hanged, drawn and quartered by now by the real Anglophiles on here. But we are all entitled to our opinion.

            As for ”We & they separately are not ready to exit”, they have already decided to leave. We respect that. But they have not decided for us. That is the independence we fought for.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Hi Pat,

      I have been reading your posts recently and I have to say they are the work of a moron.

      For example;

      “the gullible masses of these islands”

      We are all fools are we because we don’t agree with your view of it? Your view of the electorate says it all about you.

      You may understand this being an accountant. All of the fuckers in charge of the banks and auditing practices including Charley Haughey (bertie was a book keeper) who fucked up so badly were chartered accountants most still drawing obscene salaries and no one asks the obvious but these fuckers still call the shots and want more of what doesn’t work.

      I think the brits are sophisticated and well informed and said enough is enough. I suspect the Tories knew that Deutsche Bank is about to go down and said we are not going to get caught up in the fall out when that wmd goes off.

      You have my sympathy Pat.

      • Pat Flannery

        Michael: I decline to comment on your latest contribution on the grounds that in doing so I might confirm your intemperate charge that I am a moron.

  36. Gentlemen, when the bell goes, come out fighting, but stick to the rules. No punching the back of the head or below the belt or kidney punching. If a man goes down you go to a neutral corner. Lets have a clean fight, now, back to your corners.

    Gentlemen give up the personal references to IQ and ability. As Adam says, play the ball not the man.

    Argue all you like: Agree or disagree, eliminate personal disparagement. We are our own referees.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Thanks Tony. I agree.

      Sorry Pat Flannery.

      Michael.

      • Pat Flannery

        Michael: Marquess of Queensberry rules it is then.

        As Michaeleen Oge Flynn (Barry Fitzgerald) said in The Quiet Man: now come out fightin’.

        Thank you both, Tony and Michael.

      • We are all guilty to an extent, Michael.

        Some of the people I got along really well with were also some with whom I scrapped with fiercely in the ring. It is called respect.

  37. Pat Flannery

    Grzegorz Kolodziej: As you suggested I went back over the coverage of Minsk II in February 2015 but could find no trace of French president François Hollande and German chancellor Angela Merkel having gone to Minsk ‘’to conduct the talks with Russia … IN THE NAME OF ALL EU GOVERNMENTS without consulting them’’ as you allege.

    Such inaccurate statements only hurt the credibility of this site and give the impression that it is just another home for wild conspiracy theorists. I would prefer if that were not the case.

    My own view of Minsk II is that it was a valiant effort at peace-making in Ukraine by Hollande and Merkel as members of Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE).

    You may be confused by the fact that after their trip to Minsk Hollande, Merkel and the Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko briefed a European Union summit in Brussels. That was a courtesy briefing only and entirely proper.

    • Truthist

      Pat,

      I gave u good replies in last article’s blog & in this blog also ;
      Some of the substance u have somehow ignored.

      U would be for the better to address the points I made which u ignored.

      And, seriously, Pat, u surely know that Germany is NOT a sovereign country ?
      Thus, the diktats attributed as coming from Germany are not really from Germany ;
      Germany is “Proxy” for E.U. Dr. Strangegloves.

      Merkel has been imposed on Germany ;
      Even the German Secret Service believe that she is a carefully programmed spy since childhood to be placed in control of German people by USSR on behalf of Rothschilds.
      They even suggest they have the evidence that she not German.

      Please put ur thinking hat on for to uncover who really won WW 2 ;
      And, no, it sure was NOT :
      Germany
      Russia
      U.S.A.
      U.K.
      France
      Japan
      China
      Italy

      E.U. is War on Nations of Europe by other means !

      But, we are not ready to leave yet.

      Fail to plan ;
      ==> Plan to fail.

      Likewise, the suffering real British Nation ;

      UK should stay in EU until they really ready to leave.
      And, whilst they are in they should continue to be malcontents about EU Corruption & Crassness.
      This will help to mitigate negative consequences for all nations.

      • Pat Flannery

        Truthist: You remind me of an oft-repeated story used by Stephen Hawkins in his book ‘’A Brief History of Time’’.

        He describes how at the end of a lecture by some unnamed eminent scientist the proverbial little old lady at the back of the room stood up and said: “What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.”

        The unnamed scientist gave a superior smile before replying, “What is the tortoise standing on?” “You’re very clever, young man, very clever,” said the old lady. “But it’s turtles all the way down!”

        You may be right Truthist, perhaps it is ‘’turtles all the way down’’ or in your case Freemasons all the way down.

        • Truthist

          Pat, stuff u ignore is not just about Freemasons.

          Even negative traits about Irish that I spelled out for u to deal with u ignored.

          I do not engage with mocking people’s arguments.
          And, especially I do not engage in mocking them personally.

          Yes, we do have such contributors here who do ;
          And, some have revealed themselves to be emotionally wimpy.

          Please, do not resort to such baseness as they.

          Just dealing with the “issues” Pat ;

          e.g.

          U surely know that Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko [ "Porky" ] is imposed on Ukrainian nation by the dreadful few ?
          Under his command Ukrainian jet fighter willfully gunned down MH 17 killing all on board.
          Irish woman a passenger.

          Google Search Terms

          mh17 AND Ukrainian president Poroshenko AND christopher bollyn

          https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=w8t4V7uxG8r4vASftJeYDA&fg=1#q=mh17+AND++Ukrainian+president+Poroshenko+AND+christopher+bollyn

          And, USA through Secretary of State Victor Nuland [ Real Name ; Nudleman ] have spent >= $ 5 Billion to bring down Ukraine so as to create war with Russia ;

          Because Putin [ a true "Goodie" ] has helped make the Russian Orthodox Church strong again among the Russian peoples is why “the dreadful few” are out to wage war on Russia.

          The Dreadful Few when in control of Ukraine before willfully starved to death 13 — yes, “thirteen” — million Ukranians to death in 20th century even though there were bumper harvests in Ukraine & the grain stored.

          Google Search Terms

          USA victoria nuland spent on ukraine

          https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=w8t4V7uxG8r4vASftJeYDA&fg=1#q=USA+victoria+nuland+spent+on+ukraine

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Pat

          While the Irish free-masons might be benign, though probably go against a lot of what me or Coldblow hold dear (I do not know – I have only met them on 3 occasions – seemed nice enough, but do not judge the book by the cover), the Grand Orient de France (hated by the Irish freemasonry) are not; and your turtles parable would not work if put within the context of Propaganda Due.

          No institutions that murders people (there was a court case in Italy) can be called “just another silly conspiratorial society” – though I acknowledge you meant the British freemasonry. Hang on – is this the same way that in Blair times ignored the court order to reveal their members in the police?

          • Truthist

            Orange Lodges are part of Freemasonry too.

            High Degree Freemasons are dangerous dudes ;
            Irish FMs just as much as Grand Orient.

            Remember the conspiracy against Deputy Chief Constable John Stalker by British Freemasonry in collusion with Freemasonry in North East oF ireland because of Stalker — Catholic — adamant on doing proper investigation of Shoot-Kill Policy by Margaret Thatcher which was devised for her by consultant General Rafael E..n who has also been head of Mshd ?
            Freemason riddled Police & Judiciary then targeted Stalker’s personal friend, a Tory Politician & Businessman, on false grounds that this friend was criminal.

            Brits call us Irish “thick”
            as in
            “mentally thick as a 6 inch plank”.

            I think they are not the only nation who think we are thick.
            Gen E..n et all would also apparently.

            U do not have to go far to prove what world history & economics has been about.
            Knowing Ireland & its real history alone is enough.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Pat,
      very briefly, I hope you won’t find it rude (I was trying to buy the Iceland team support team to meet the Icelanders in Dublin if any, but they were temporarily sold out – apparently Scots bought them out).

      “You may be confused by the fact that after their trip to Minsk Hollande, Merkel and the Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko briefed a European Union summit in Brussels” – the main point, Pat, is that the EU made the sanctions (and what kind) on Russia conditional on the result of Ms Merkel’s arrangements (I pledge other readers not to conclude from that that I find sanctions good, bad or indifferent).
      Decisions require unanimity among member states in the Council of the European Union. No (other than Germany-France) members were asked any opinion. No persons appropriate (in the light of the EU law) to decide EU’s foreign policy were present in Minsk.

      As to the US having a complete control over Germany, this is not quite so – despite the Kanzler-Akte. Blocking the motorway by the Germans reg. Anaconda-16 is one example why this is no longer true, the US wanting to participate in the Minsk talks but being excluded by President Putin is another one.

      Yet another example that your thesis that

      “it is the member GOVERNMENTS that collectively make all EU executive decisions”

      in does not stand up to a detailed scrutiny was the way decisions regarding the Greek debt-write down (there had been a few, I am talking about the last one) – read: rescuing plan for German/French banks was reached (this it the way almost all EU’s financial decisions are reached).

      In your disarmingly naive and optimistic view all the governments have gathered and collectively decided what to do with Greece.

      In reality, these decisions are not made by EU Finance Ministers, but by the Eurogroup Working Group, theoretically comprising of
      - representatives of the euro area member states of the Economic and Financial Committee,
      - the European Commission
      - and the European Central Bank;

      in reality headed by Mr Thomas Wieser nominated by Minister Wolfgang Schauble, who simply transmitted Mr Schauble’s decision to the EU Finance Ministers who rubber-stamped it.

      If you do not believe me, ask David McWilliams, and if He does not believe, ask Him to ask Minister Noonan.

      Great post of yours on securitisation (not derivatives) playing the first fiddle – perhaps this blog’s hitherto finest.

      Also, interesting discussion on Locke and Thomas Hobbes, maybe I’ll come back to it in the future.

      So unhappy about the result – contrary to popular opinion (the ubiquitous prejudiced Northern Irish moniker ‘ye dorty Aytalian’), could not find any Italians in Dublin’s biggest pub (mainly Germans) – though perhaps Germany are the best team overall, albeit not spectacular in any area.

      7 reasons why one should support Iceland :-)

      http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/7-reasons-you-should-support-8302013

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        “EU made the sanction” – was forced to made (formalities skipped, opinions not asked) – I am sure you’ll be diving like a hawk to catch me on words ;-)

  38. survivalist

    Does anyone here really understand how Europe actually functions as a supposed democratic institution or collection of institutions? I doubt it. And does that lack of involvement of the people make any difference to its operation?

    I suspect that this lack of ‘understandability’ is a deliberate ploy. People when confronted with a mass of unintelligible bureaucratic layers and vast formations of interconnected institutions just switch off.

    Not because they are too ignorant to understand it all, but even if that were true, and people had no ability to understand the complex system, their dis-connection is caused by their instinctually recognition of what it really is.

    It is fundamentally unreadable not as a matter of necessity but as a matter of preference.

    And practically speaking- the EU governance is irrelevant in that its importance is self-ascribed and popular participation is largely ritualistic or symbolic anyway.

    Is the EU government more democratically representative of the peoples will than any other state government, and if so, how so?

    We know as a verifiable fact that the electorate have a statistically insignificant effect on government policy at least in the USA.

    Regardless of all this it must be constantly re-iterated that he burden of proof is on the EU power holders to explain their legitimacy; it is not on the people to explain their freedom of the will.

    A brief look at the system follows:

    EU decision-making involves three main institutions (this is a euphemism if ever): the European Commission, the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union.

    Which one does what and how?

    Well, the European people only get to elect the members of the Parliament. And the commission only proposes laws which the Parliament and the Council then decide on passing into law or not.

    But not always;

    ‘Special’ legislative procedures also exist where in certain cases legal acts may be adopted by the Council alone, side stepping the people’s representatives.

    Incidentally the EU Parliament, aka the people, aka us, have the power of ‘democratic scrutiny of all EU institutions’ including examining ‘citizens’ petitions and setting up inquiries’.

    I ask, have you or anyone you have ever known, even been remotely associated with either of these processes, or even heard of an example of such, ever?

    Finally and to add to the confusion please remember that the Council of the European Union should not to be confused with the Council of Europe or the European Council, where EU leaders ‘meet to set the broad direction of EU policy making’…and this despite the fact that the European Parliament with the Council is the ‘main decision-making body of the EU’.

    These Kafkaesque descriptions are not my own but taken from the EU commission itself best of luck deciphering it all, or any of it.

    http://ec.europa.eu/

  39. Truthist

    Left Right Democrat Republican Labour Conservative Remain Exit … whatever ?
    Who cares !

    http://www.thejc.com/comment-and-debate/columnists/154099/why-brexit-will-be-best-us

  40. Truthist

    I am beginning to think that all my posts imploring people to get physically Gold & Silver are a waste of time.
    Nobody on the blog shows conversion from indifference or difference towards Gold & Silver as real money.
    And, neither is any other enthusiast for G & S getting traction here.
    Alas …

    But, I am getting support in my exposing of corruption in the Irish State ;

    And, who better to know about corruption in the Irish State but a victim local to the shore himself ?

    People know instinctively that we must 1st fix ourselves before we can take on the global Banksters.

    There is no getting away from that old wisdom ;

    “All politics & economics is local.”

    • Welcome to the club. I have been regularly admonished for discussing gold and silver as money. Not only is there indifference to PM’s as money but down right hostility.

      Many of us who realize the importance of PM in the finances of the world and in the basic support for a sound monetary system cannot even persuade our closest families and relatives of this basic truth.

      The most ridicule and scathing comment comes from economists and accountants and a good portion of financial advisers who frankly are totally ignorant of all this gold.

      Then there is the apathy, indifference and hostility of the majority of the MSM. Not just the press but radio and TV news organizations.

      Here is a snap shot of the performance of PM stocks compared to major indices. Who here knows that the average PM index is up over 100% for the YTD 2016. The columns are not quite synchronized but the message is there to read.

      Basic View Quote View Valuation View Allocation View Performance View Benchmark View Analyst View Printer Friendly Version
      Year-to-date1 Last 12 Months1 Since Inception2 (Oct/2008)
      Your Portfolio 148.47% 111.66% 16.66%
      Dow Jones Index – CAD -4.11% 5.56% 8.70%
      Dow Jones Index – USD 2.90% 1.76% 5.78%
      Russell 2000 – USD 1.41% -8.14% 5.81%
      Russell 2000 – CAD -5.50% -4.71% 8.73%
      S&P 500 – CAD -4.31% 5.53% 9.42%
      S&P 500 – USD 2.69% 1.73% 6.49%
      TSX – CAD 8.10% -3.36% 0.27%
      TSX – USD 16.01% -6.84% -2.42%
      TSX 60 – CAD 6.95% -3.55% -0.06%
      TSX 60 – USD 14.76% -7.03% -2.74%
      USD – CAD -6.81% 3.73% 2.75%

      Who is aware that in US dollar terms gold is up YTD 25% and silver up 41%. The US dollar is relatively strong and so the percent gains are significantly higher in other currencies.

      My children hang on to paltry income from bonds and stocks which are looking to roll over and die. I fear for their financial futures.

      It is not all meat and gravy as the PM markets emerge from a 4 year 50% downturn.

      But as the world economies subside from the overdose of excessive credit (Read QE to infinity) the central bankers will bail out there balance sheets by revaluing gold upward by multiples of today’s prices. That is why the central bankers of Europe hold collectively more gold than the US and why Russia and China are making poste haste to get as much as they can while it is still available at today’s giveaway prices.

      You as an individual cannot rely and anyone else to help you, you must help yourself.

      • McCawber

        Gold – The actual possession of it it seems like a very good idea.
        The only reservation I would have is when the time comes to sell it.
        What will the CBs/Governments have put in place to screw me over and prevent me from liquidating my gold at any value (never mind fair value) when I need to.
        What are the scenarios likely to be surrounding the issue of liquidation?

        • There is always a cash buyer for a piece of gold or a gold coin. Or a barter position allows the direct exchange of gold or silver for goods or services. Then gold is again directly money.
          The Indian government put a duty on gold imports and immediately gold went to the black market.
          Indian passed legislation to encourage people to lend their gold to the government in exchange for cash plus interest (who said gold bares no interest) but it was pronounced DOA by the majority.

          Buy the gold and keep it at home or where ever. Buy and equal cost amount of silver and again of PM shares. Do not use a bank based broker or they will borrow you shares and short them to their advantage but not yours. Use a private broker who does not play these games. I use Q-Trade.

          Invest one third each. gold will go up. silver 1.5 to 2x faster and PM shares faster yet. Take profit from your shares and buy silver and gold to equal your holdings again to equal cash value. Or buy that 5 acres you have your eye on and put into organic vegetables, get a cow and calf and 3 ewes for meat on the table.

          Have fun, life is a blast if you let it be.

  41. https://ellenbrown.com/2016/07/01/brexit-and-the-derivatives-time-bomb/

    Ellen Brown suggests that governments reclaim sovereignty by having their own currency. Produce currency directly from treasury at no cost (It is not a loan). Use the government free money to pay off the bonds held by the central banks and to pay off the national debt.

    That was my own suggestion months , years ago on this blog, to be met with a deafening silence. Few seem to have a clue how the money system works except Cooldude.

    So think about it and let’s hear from you.

  42. Mike Lucey

    Brexit might be the least of our worries!

    ‘Deutsche Bank to Initiate the Next Financial Crisis? Stock Could Be Headed to Zero’

    https://www.thestreet.com/story/13628159/1/deutsche-bank-to-initiate-the-next-financial-crisis-stock-could-be-headed-to-zero.html

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