June 27, 2016

It’s time to be calm, rational and act in Ireland’s self-interest

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 189 comments ·

In football, a certain type of player emerges when his team needs him most. He is a leader on the pitch at crucial times and makes the right choices, which matter most. Right now Ireland needs such a political leader. It is time to be calm, rational and act in Ireland’s self-interest.

Official Ireland, from the government to all agencies of the state ran a disastrous, shameful campaign. It should hang its head in shame, having led the Irish people up a political cul de sac, backing one side in a referendum in a foreign country over which Ireland has no control. It got this wrong. This was another example of “the green jersey agenda” squared, where a small policy-making elite conflates its own narrow interests with those of the rest of us. And with predictable results. Now Ireland has to negotiate with the very same British politicians that Official Ireland vilified and alienated during the campaign.

What a tactic! This is political and strategic naiveté on a monumental scale. Official Ireland should learn from the past few days that you should only involve yourself where you can actually influence the outcome.

There are three specific post-Brexit implications that need to be considered.

The first is economic and how we should frame this unique opportunity; the second is geo-strategic revolving around what the EU does next and the third pertains to the future of the United Kingdom and how we navigate relationships with the North, Scotland and England in the event of historic constitutional change in Britain.

Economically, I have argued consistently in this column that Brexit could be positive for our economy, if managed properly. This was not a popular line until Friday when it became Irish government policy. The unique opportunity centres on attracting foreign investment. Britain is the EU’s biggest recipient of foreign investment. It receives €35 billion per year. In contrast, Ireland receives around €5 billion. If the uncertainty about access to EU markets implies that investment into Britain will be diverted, where do you think is the most logical place for this investment to be diverted? It should come to Ireland, of course. Because our economy and society is about 15 times smaller than Britain’s, even a fraction of its foreign investment business would have a big positive impact here.

At its most basic, Brexit makes Ireland’s foreign investment strategy and sales pitch – English speaking, low-tax, EU member – more unique and compelling.

In terms of action, the state – specifically the IDA – should be phoning every chief executive of every potential foreign investor that is contemplating making an investment and is 50/50 as to whether they make it in Ireland or Britain. The same should be done with banks and financial services companies.

During the two years of negotiation, our state should fix Dublin’s housing problem because housing people to work in these companies is part of the story. Sadly, given the “good room” mentality and the ‘keeping up appearances” of Official Ireland (particularly as regards the “wealthy foreigner”), it might take the lure of a foreign investment boom, rather than the egregious domestic plight of locals who can’t find a home, to spark the Irish state into action on the housing market.

The second area of consideration is what I would call geo-strategic. This involves negotiating with our partners to make sure the EU recognises that with respect to Britain, Ireland occupies a special position and we need opt-outs where our national interest is specifically and disproportionately challenged. This type of “special position” is exactly the status David Cameron was afforded by the EU to try to keep Britain in, so there is precedent. It didn’t work for Britain, but the same understanding needs to be negotiated by our government.

Ireland is special not just because of the border but because the reality is that Ireland has not become fundamentally more European since 1973. We have remained part of the Anglo-American economic world economically. We do over €1 billion of trade with Britain every week. The US (not Germany or France) is our biggest trading partner, followed by Britain. When our people look for work, they go to London not Leipzig. We support English football teams, watch the BBC, tune in to English soaps and listen to English music. It’s not that our own culture is subservient but we are intertwined, economically, socially and ultimately politically with Britain unlike any other country.

Over 500,000 people left Ireland for Britain in the 1950s. This is why our football team today has English and Scottish accents. Those lads are the demographic echoes of the 1950s and 1960s migrants. Their grandparents didn’t head to Bordeaux or Galicia for work; they went to Birmingham and Glasgow. There has been an open trade and travel policy between Ireland and Britain for years. This is sacrosanct.

If the EU becomes vindictive and tries to block trade and travel with Britain in order to teach it and other would be “deserters” a lesson, we need to react. Such European truculence must be regarded as a “red line” for Ireland. Our national interest is at stake and Official Ireland must realise that being good Europeans and acting in Irish self-interest is not one and the same thing.

The third theatre for negotiation is with Britain itself. If the Scots vote to leave (as this column in recent weeks has suggested is the logical implication of Brexit), what happens to Northern Ireland? I’ve always thought that the DUP should be careful what it wishes for, as a UK without Scotland – the Northern Unionists’ fraternal brothers – will be, to use David Trimble’s expression, “a cold place” for Unionism. A little Englander is a very different creature to a One Nation Tory. Unionists might do well to consider that fact.

If the new England is prepared to accept that Scotland leaving the Union is a price worth paying to be out of the EU, I might suggest that the position of the far less loved – and considerably more expensive – Ulster Unionist is, to say the least, precarious.

  1. cooldude

    Excellent article. Much more sensible than the Peter Sutherland “punish the naughty Brits” attitude which seems to be the globalist elite view. Much better to play our cards close to our chest and see if and where we can get advantages and make sure we dont lose any.

    There will be a two pronged approach from the unelected undemocratic EU burocrats first will be the stick to beat the Brits and second will be the offer of a second referendum. We should know how they work tis one after Lisbon. They are truly an anti democratic institution and only accept democratic decisions that tie in with their agendas.

    • McCawber

      The EU will be quite happy dump the brits.
      They consider us as Anglo Saxons too.
      They will be only too glad to dump us as well.
      Ireland should never forget that English speaking nations are our real friends.
      I agree about us playing our cards close to our chest.
      The brits have the EU over a barrel.
      The parliament has the power to set aside the referendum so Britain can play it both ways and the EU have no say in the matter.
      Hence the attempts by Jonker and others to try to give them the bums rush.
      I am going to enjoy seeing the frustration on their faces when they realise that the plain people of GB have shoved up their “where the sun don’t shine” places.

      • Truthist

        Re ; Our international Friends

        Apparently so McCawber ;
        But, not necessarily so.

        We as a nation should attend to ourselves such that we re-gain our decency & self-respect & wisdom & competence, & thus win the good friends in non-anglophile countries that are surely there for such fine fellows from auld Hibernia.

        We are a rotten people overall now I regret to say.

        Cleansing our corrupt Civil Serpents, & Pro. Class [ Especially the Finance Insurance Real-Estate ( F.I.R.E. ) sector, & the Legal Profession ], & the Quangos would be a great start to reforming our national character.

      • Deco

        To be honest, the “leadership” of the EU have the EU over a barrel with their legendary, repeated incompetence.

        And they are not going to reform.

    • woodsey

      Excellent article?! Written on the understanding that anyone would know how a Euro-nation that has spent 45 years embedded within the EU can be successfully extricated for the very first time? Speak to me again over the next 45 years. This is neither Norway nor Switzerland who didn’t join in the first place and just carried on. To reverse British administration and Britain’s economy at this stage is a task well beyond the ability of those who might undertake it. You can just see them all rushing in to try? McWilliams should know better!

      • McCawber

        Your right but when you break a problem down into its’ constituent parts it becomes a lot easier.
        I can see the consultancy firms chomping at the bit.

        • McCawber

          There might even be a few bob in this for our bould host.

        • woodsey

          @McCawber. So, if there are only 45 items to consider, and each of these has to be passed by each member of the EU and takes an average of 6 months to arrive at a conclusion, it will only be another 22.5 years that we’ll spend discussing this potential ‘Brexit’? Not to mention one nation didagreeing and we have to amend the proposal and start again? Strikes

          • woodsey

            s.b: ‘disagreeing’!

            Strikes me that 2 years is either overly-optimistic or intended as a pressure-point?!
            Either way, it represents another EU ‘fault-line’!

          • McCawber

            You’ve obviously never heard of parallel processing. You’re not a civil servant or some such by any chance.

  2. In your dreams David.


  3. Antaine

    Subscribe :-)

  4. Colm MacDonncha

    There was some drone on RTPravda radio this morning waffling about Ireland’s ‘Special Relationship’ with Angela Merkel and Jean-Claude Juncker or whichever faceless bureaucrat is pulling Enda’s strings these days. The EU is out of control and Brexit is the first torpedo to hit the sinking ship of the Brussels elite. The arrogance of our pathetic shambles of a government to interfere openly in a democratic plebiscite held in a Sovereign state beggars belief. I would love to see the reaction if Cameron or Corbyn came over here to give their views and campaign in a referendum on Section 8,for example….Europe is the Tyrannosaurus and Brexit was the Meteor that has changed the Climate of Europe forever, and Fatally for some…

    • Gerard

      Colm , True enough but we have seen the Irish reaction to outsiders “interfering” in our sovereign voting , consider the divorce referendum and how we howled that the organizations in the U.S should not interfere in our decision making and not only that but with breathtaking arrogance / stupidity we also questioned where they got their funding from , just imagine that……. the Irish political class wondering aloud if some other group are above board and honest in their dealings

    • Deco

      That special relationship comes with vaseline, and a distinct lack of consent from Ireland’s behalf.

      • redriversix

        The reaction of the media has been ridiculous .

        When they do not know how things will pan out…their default reaction is panic & fear.

        Words like cataclysmic ,earthquake, disentagrating….

        I said to a friend of mine on Wednesday if the working class north of England turn
        out to vote it would be a win for Brexit

        If politicians decided we would be fine ..we will be…

        We will be anyway .

        This was a democratic vote. Period

        But politicians seem to like chaos & drama,that is their default position.

        The last 4 days has been about money .its always about money.

        Ratings agencies,owned by banks,reduce a countries rating thereby increasing interest rates =more money for the 1%

        David your tilt at a united Ireland would really fuck us up….Government can’t run 26 counties,how would they run 32 ?

        Futureshock ?

        If you wish to become a European citizen you will have to serve 4 years in a European battle group as a soldier.

        Conscription by the back door

        • michaelcoughlan

          “Futureshock ?

          If you wish to become a European citizen you will have to serve 4 years in a European battle group as a soldier.

          Conscription by the back door”

          Terrifying thought.

          Soldiers sent to assets strip the enemy to preserve the balance sheet of European banks.

          It’s like 1930′s Germany.

  5. Harve

    I agree with a lot of your points David. Opportunities will present themselves and Ireland must be ready to take them. As an Irish citizen living in Britain, the UK has become “a colder place” for Irish and other foreigners. Having spoken with a number of EU citizens on this, that is their view as well. For Ireland, a key trade area that will be impacted is agricultural trade. That is going to cause significant issues for the food industry which need to be addressed as a priority. Even with a ‘Norway’ type EEA model, it is not a given that agricultural trade will be included within this. Ireland needs to lobby hard for that. I agree with you that Ireland now needs a “special status” within the European Union. Perhaps Northern Ireland will also need to accept a “special status” within the UK government will want to curb migration and a back-door into the UK via Ireland and Northern Ireland. So passport checks going from Belfast to London are not beyond the bounds of possibility in my view. That will create issues for the unionists/loyalists in the North in addition to the conundrum of Scotland going its own way which I agree is very likely now.

    Finally, whilst I agree that Britain should not be unduly punished, there also needs to be a realisation in Britain that access to the single market will come at a price and they are not going to be able to have their cake and eat it as the Vote Leave campaign have claimed, frequently using misleading “facts” (which was done by both sides). In the days following the referendum, the UK has shown a real lack of leadership. A vacuum that Nicola Sturgeon has stepped into. I also think that the EU leaders are at least appearing to be taking some action but it is vital for Ireland that it is not just the core EU countries (i.e. original six) but the whole EU-27 that are at the table.

    Interesting times ahead and for sure it won’t be plain sailing.

  6. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David.

    “This involves negotiating with our partners to make sure the EU recognises that with respect to Britain, Ireland occupies a special position”

    The special relationship between Ireland and England was forged in blood;


    The 2nd highest scoring fighter pilot in the battle of Britain was from Dublin (whose father fought in the rising) and is still in the cockpit of his spitfire at the bottom of the channel;


    “it might take the lure of a foreign investment boom, rather than the egregious domestic plight of locals who can’t find a home, to spark the Irish state into action on the housing market”

    Never were truer words spoken.

    “If the EU becomes vindictive and tries to block trade and travel with Britain in order to teach it and other would be “deserters” a lesson, we need to react. Such European truculence must be regarded as a “red line” for Ireland.

    I am delighted to see your view is contrary to Sutherland.


    • McCawber

      Agree with a lot of what you say and I would add that many of the links are not just military.
      I have, probably like a lot of other Irish people, first cousins and their families living, working , creating employment in England.
      They are fully integrated into English society and even reflect some of the English attitudes towards the Irish. It has been an education for both them and their friends that the Ireland they left as children is no longer.
      If our politicians could learn the same lessons…..

    • Liam Mellows

      Very well said. Refreshing. How DMcWilliams, a man I’ve always been interested in listening to, can ignore the relative, but enormous, decline in the importance of Britain to our economy is inexplicable. There is a clear trend towards Europe and what he proposes is, when all is said and done, a political return to the really bad old days of England sneezing and Ireland catching a cold. The handful of remaining British nationalists (i.e. unionists in the North & Scotland)- most of that category has hilariously transpired to be mere Little Englanders who sacrificed British nationalists and the idea of Britain in this referendum – would love this resurrection of “British Isles” politics, with Paddy serving his purpose as the egoboost for British delusions of world importance.

      For those of us who believe in the idea of an Ireland that is intellectually and culturally free from Britain and its race to the bottom, low tax for rich corporations culture, the EU for all its faults is the only choice. McWilliams is being far from creative or original here, unfortunately; rather, he’s trotting out the same tired Anglo-American mé féiner model that Thomas Piketty did so much in exposing as increasingly myopic and self-defeating for all societies who subscribe to its inate and rapidly growing inequalities. In this model, all we can offer the world is a glorified tax haven. That, it appears, is Ireland’s “edge”, a race to the bottom that can in reality be matched by any EU state if its political elites decided to sacrifice social justice/better health and educational infrastructure, etc that higher taxes allow. By embracing this free market fundamentalism, Ireland undermines social justice in the EU. Alas and well let Erin weep.

  7. X Pat

    Dear David

    I do believe that you may be suffering from a form of hubris

    “This was not a popular line until Friday when it became Irish government policy.”

    This is an extension of your more recent “Official Ireland is not listening to me and preparing for Brexit” line. Three things on that :

    1) Official Ireland, or the Taoiseach and Cabinet who are the communicators, ably assisted by the civil service, don’t actually have to promote a two sided debate on Brexit, knowing that the policy of the government is to take the view that the EU is overwhelmingly good for Ireland, and Brexit leads to distress in the EU. That’s not your view, and that’s fine, but it’s their view. Given that the situation would only be really known after the referendum and the sensitivity of making comments that can and are used by either side in the referendum, the government (or let’s use the derogatory term, Official Ireland) decided to speak only in support of Remain. But never was the story told that it would be a Remain result, and that people were to prepare for that. That’s called politics, and it’s real and it matters. Brexit was a political decision, not an economic one.

    b) If you think ANYONE is EVER going to consult you after your kiss and tell with B Linehan then you are dreaming.

    c) you must think you are the only one with any bright ideas out there. “Your” ideas did not become “Government policy” overnight, spare the hubris. What’s that you say at the top about people being calm? I think you are talking to yourself.

    • Dear xPat

      Lovely to hear your constructive views. Hope to read more of them. And darling, being consulted by the nomenklatura in our country is not an over-riding ambition of mine.

      All the best


      • michaelcoughlan

        Don’t respond a fool or you might be mistaken for one.

      • Reality Check

        xPat is suffering from the same affiction that the bawling Remain types in Britain have; being such a sore loser that all rational thought goes out the window. I admire your clarity of thought on this issue. Govt mandarins should heed David’s advice before it’s too late.
        PS Bob Geldof made a complete eejit of himself with his antics on the Thames before the election and probably helped swing the election (although I suspect Leave had a huge lead right before the Jo Cox murder) If you coud have a word in his ear when you see him next to stop prostituting himself to the globalist elites. Best.

      • SMOKEY

        ….nomenklatura,..woo damn that is funny, it is good you have an education to crush half wits like Ex Paddy, nomenklatura,…too funny. I will use it the first chance I get. As for the leave win?? FUCK YEAH!

  8. David.

    Don’t #IrelandIncElites realise that, amongst the real ‘movers and shakers’, ‘thought-leaders’ and opinion makers of #CoreEngland they are in ‘bad odour’, as Jane Austen would put it? Instead of trying to appropriate the Birmingham Brexit Shire Irish culture of rebellion & append it to the Remain agenda Cheltenham Races elitism, they’d do well to pause and reflect before stampeding into another disaster in diplomatic relations.

    Official Ireland should have realised that there is surface, and there is depth. Most people toe the line, do that Athenry Karaoke stuff whilst watching #COYBIG but here’s something you might not realise or understand: lots of the most rabid UKIP Brexit lads I know are of Irish descent and feel zero conflict between supporting Brexit and their ancestral culture. 1916 is a meme, let’s hope that the Brexit outcome is respected or we may yet see the 2016 sacking of Oxford Street to mirror the sack of Sackville Street. Of course, naturally, I would abhor such an outcome but if this is handled badly, all bets are off.

    ‘During the two years of negotiation, our state should fix Dublin’s housing problem’

    Erm…LOL! You can’t be serious? The same eejits who thought their arse-licking hospitality diplomacy at Cheltenham Races would thwart Brexit think that they can liberate the land-bank & build homes for Corporate Refugees without triggering a revolt amongst Culchie Ireland? Bring it!

    Official Ireland is as estranged from the bubbling resentment of the Culchie underclass as the London elites were from the UK prole/precariat. In fact, they’re the same people: the Norman elite who’ve run these islands since 1066. George Osbourne is the hereditary Baronet of Tipperary. And this utterly delusional clown still thinks he’s credible and in charge of ‘events, dear boy! Events!’ LOLOLOL!

    ‘If the EU becomes vindictive and tries to block trade and travel with Britain in order to teach it and other would be “deserters” a lesson, we need to react. Such European truculence must be regarded as a “red line” for Ireland. Our national interest is at stake and Official Ireland must realise that being good Europeans and acting in Irish self-interest is not one and the same thing.’

    The identity conflicts and strengths of being 2nd generation ‘Irish Blood-English Heart’ means that Official Ireland focussed on the Plastic Paddies for their sleveen pitch to ‘support Ireland’. Official Ireland are loathed and detested in Core England, as it’s clearly seen that they use/abuse the common travel area of these islands to export emmigrants to defuse their own crises. They’ve done this all along, from Norman times to the 50s and to steady the ship after the banking implosion.

    ‘A little Englander is a very different creature to a One Nation Tory. Unionists might do well to consider that fact.
    If the new England is prepared to accept that Scotland leaving the Union is a price worth paying to be out of the EU, I might suggest that the position of the far less loved – and considerably more expensive – Ulster Unionist is, to say the least, precarious.’

    Please kindly desist from unironic use of the phrase ‘little Englander’ If you wish to use it, air-quote it to show you realise that totalising all English under this derogatory phrase and conflating their identity with the Social Racism of Guardianista propagandists is no longer acceptable. I have given you an advisory tweet on this matter.

    Do NOT use ‘rumpUK’ either. Is the Republic of Ireland ‘rumpIreland’? The new formulation is ‘CoreUK’ and ‘CoreIreland’, as this is an objective observation of the state of affairs on both islands.

    Finally, can you advise the Official Ireland Commentariat that the 2016 Prole-Precariat UK Uprising involved solidarity between both English and Welsh and that elitist scribes should not invisibilise, marginalise or otherwise ignore this fact as Taffy will get seriously pissed off. Fintan O’Toole: Do one, mate.

    So, a banjaxed Official Ireland is going to ‘negotiate’ with us? Good luck with that one, Paddy.

    As I read the Facebook pages of my school mates and their adventures in France supporting Ireland and coming to terms with the sad fact of the RoI #Euro2016Exit it’s fascintating to observe the dynamics of all this. But I’m also aware that some of those ‘lads’ voted Leave, but they only disclose that to me, not to the group-think consensus of the tribe.

    “We won’t vote Conservative because we never have : Everyone lies, everyone lies!” Morrissey “Glamorous Glue”

    “We won’t vote UKIP because we never do (#FcUKEU!) : Everyone lies, everyone lies”

    It’s all rather amusing. The same ‘experts’ who failed to predict Brexit now insist they are fit for purpose to manage the aftermath. Osbourne. Carney. Kenny. You couldn’t make it up! Oh, to be Francis Urquhart, to be either Labour or Tory Chief Whip today as the whole House of Cards comes tumbling down! But, sadly, I’m just a misanthropic, curmudgeonly recluse in The Shires of England and Wales with no power or influence on matters.

    The phone rings as the count begins:

    “Andy! It’s Leave, mt8! Back up the FcUKEU fcUKing truck, my son!”

    “I’ve been dreaming of a time when, the English, are sick to death of Labour, and Tory , and spit upon their names alongside Cromwell…”
    “You may very well think that. I couldn’t possibly comment”


    House of Cards:


  9. E. Kavanagh

    In 1973 about 10% of exports went to the US. That rose to over 22% in 2014.
    In 1973 Irish export to EU countries (excluding the UK) was about 21.3%. That also increased to nearly 40% in 2014.
    Over that period the percentage of trade with the UK dropped from 55% to 15%.

    So our UK & US percentage halved dropping from 65% to 37%; while our non-UK EU trade nearly doubled to 40%.

    In light of that, economically, we are hugely more European now than in 1973. Certainly we are culturally closer to our English speaking partners. But even so, with Ryan Air, cheaper travel, richer people, our exposure to the continent has made us far more European than we were in 1973. And on a per capita basis, we export about the same amount to Germany and France as we to to the US; and way more to Belgium. (Exports per capita–Belgium €1,053; UK €209; Germany €73; France €71; USA $62.)
    And on a personal note, during my student working holidays in Copenhagen, I found the Danish to be much more like the Irish than the Yanks are.

    (And BTW, I believe our trade with the UK is over €1B a month; not per week.)

    Generally, I agree with the overall and quite ironic thesis above i.e. we are now going to be the ones on Britain’s side. But David, you don’t have to keep pushing this nonsense about us being in the Anglo-American sphere, when it is clear that we are in both the Anglo-American and the European spheres pretty much equally with roughly 3/4 of our export split between the two.

    • McCawber

      Ryanair is what changed everything.

      • McCawber

        Ryanair made the EU possible.
        Single handedly Ryanair opened up the barriers to free (almost) travel across Europe’s borders.
        The French need to sort out their ATCs ASAP or they’ll put the whole open borders thingee at risk.

    • Liam Mellows

      Very well said. Refreshing. How DMcWilliams, a man I’ve always been interested in listening to, can ignore the relative, but enormous, decline in the importance of Britain to our economy is inexplicable. There is a clear trend towards Europe and what he proposes is, when all is said and done, a political return to the really bad old days of England sneezing and Ireland catching a cold. The handful of remaining British nationalists (i.e. unionists in the North & Scotland)- most of that category has hilariously transpired to be mere Little Englanders who sacrificed British nationalists and the idea of Britain in this referendum – would love this resurrection of “British Isles” politics, with Paddy serving his purpose as the egoboost for British delusions of world importance.

      For those of us who believe in the idea of an Ireland that is intellectually and culturally free from Britain and its race to the bottom, low tax for rich corporations culture, the EU for all its faults is the only choice. McWilliams is being far from creative or original here, unfortunately; rather, he’s trotting out the same tired Anglo-American mé féiner model that Thomas Piketty did so much in exposing as increasingly myopic and self-defeating for all societies who subscribe to its inate and rapidly growing inequalities. In this model, all we can offer the world is a glorified tax haven. That, it appears, is Ireland’s “edge”, a race to the bottom that can in reality be matched by any EU state if its political elites decided to sacrifice social justice/better health and educational infrastructure, etc that higher taxes allow. By embracing this free market fundamentalism, Ireland undermines social justice in the EU. Alas and well let Erin weep.

      • Truthist

        The Monsieur Thomas Piketty that u hold in high esteem proved himself to be a greedy “Mé Féiner” upon being invited to Killkinomics by our host ;

        Piketty the champagne Socialist requested an outlandish fee & extras if I recall correctly.


        Do u have a job in the civil / public service or quango by the way ?

  10. Sideshow Bob

    “Economically, I have argued consistently in this column that Brexit could be positive for our economy, if managed properly. This was not a popular line until Friday when it became Irish government policy. ´´

    Bit of dejá-vu here David.

    To demonstrate let me insert a small change in wording and see how it sounds ( oh and travel back in time a bit too )

    “Economically, I have argued consistently in this column that a blanket bank guarantee could be positive for our economy, if managed properly. This was not a popular line until Friday when it became Irish government policy.´´

    We know how that one turned out!

    • “if managed properly”

      You are fretting for no reason! Just recall the calibre of negotiations with The Troika Occupation. Official Ireland’s political class played a blinder, securing the best possible outcomes. The same skill-set and experience will now be applied to triangulating future strategic plans between RoI, GB & EU.

      What could possibly go wrong?

  11. Sideshow Bob

    I am getting tired of politicians borrowing project management lingo to sound authoritative when they don´t have a clue about how to deal with a situation.

    Perhaps a listing of key phrases ( clichés if you like ) from the PMBOK ( Project Management Body of Knowledge ) could be published in order to help spot when politicos are spoofing in particular on an important matter.

    The first historical entry could be Rumsfeld´s “known knowns´´, etc quote.

    • Deco

      Our government ministers are only as “good” as the words thrown on the PR statement that they are reading.

      It really is that bad. It is highly superficial.

  12. 2 observations:

    Enda & the rest of his clown possee have zero power or influence as his ‘coalition of the confused’ government could also disintegrate, could be toppled at any time once the reality of this sets in. Here’s a cautionary indicator:

    Corporate Taxation….. Without the UK, it’s likely that ‘harmonisation’ will be back on the Brussells agenda at the same time as Norn Iron is giving ‘special tax status’ by the first functional Brexit UK government.

    David McWilliam’s dream of an entrepot island trading nation is coming true, but on the island of Britain and it’s historic enclave outside CoreIreland on the island of Ireland. On an island that has retained it’s currency throughout the ‘experiment’ of EU membership.

    There are politicians and there are statesmen/women: Which category does Enda Kenny belong to?

    “A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation.”

    “Fall in prices of milk, grain and cattle to hit farmers as sterling drops”


    • Deco

      Never mind. The EU will buy. FG’s bully is in the EU Commission. And he will start that butter mountain business all over again.

      The EU always solves a problem, by creating another one.

    • CitizenWhy

      You are quite right. The EU will mot likely dictate how Ireland can set corporate taxes. That advantage will be gone. But the “English speaking but in the EU” advantage will remain. Any companies thinking to relocate or expand in Ireland will understand that their favorable taxes may be overthrown and that Britain will offer a better deal even when not in the EU. Britain will favor corporations on wages and taxes and lay-off policies.

      • CitizenWhy

        I say this because the English elite are much more competent than the Irish elite. They know how to maneuver, and how to take advantage of “creative destruction.” Simply put, they are better capitalists and exploiters. The Irish elite always fall back on stability and do not know how to react creatively to change.

        • Deco


          The Irish elite consists of people whos starting point is often “how do I preserve my own convenience”.

          Throw in political appointees at the top of the system, and you get morale problems. (as Bertie Ahern stated, “I appointed them to state boards not because they gave me money, but because they were me frends” ). [ Yes. He really did say that. It is on the Dail record.

          So morale, plus a lack of leadership in respect of meeting the public interest, and you get debacles like FAS making people less employable, as a result of their courses.

          Ireland, we have an incompetence problem.

          And we are now positioned to get hit by it square in the face.

  13. Sideshow Bob

    If FDI is to be consciously attracted one of the the most prominent problems will the state of the Irish property sector ( commercial and private, rental and purchase ) and by implication the Irish planning, development and construction sectors ( both the public and private parts). It is a key issue for all terms ( short, medium and long) for any prospective business and cannot be glossed over with vague promises. The building stock – or at the minimum potential for such stock – either exists or it does not. Vague promises and fanciful photo realistic 3D renders won´t suffice.

    Clearly, this whole area is presently an unmitigated disaster. It has been subject to no change and no real analysis since the days of the crash. To borrow a PM phrase no through “lessons learned´´ exercise has even been done. The best case scenario for any activity in the immediate future here is another small but highly pressurized scarcity driven mini-boom, followed by a be expected subsequent mini-bust when the shallow and narrow market is exhausted.

    Brexit might benefit this area on the private side by obliging the parts of this sector currently focusing on Britain ( from here to the part that has decamped to there ) to come back and focus on Ireland.

    However, on the public side the Government is populated by obsequious dunces (like Coveney and Donohue) so there is no chance of Ireland doing the right thing by its own interests which would be to create the possibility of new urban and built environments suitable (and indeed integral) to the success of a modern stable and expanding economy and society.

    • Sideshow Bob


    • Paschal Donohoe – one of the most sanctimonious little twerps I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across.

      If ever there was someone that needed a good bitch slapping from a French midget it’s him.

      • And then I saw some clown in the mainstream media recently saying that Donohoe was ‘leadership material’. Beggars belief.

        Imagine being ‘leaded’ by that twerp, notwithstanding the fact that I’m leaded by no man apart from myself.

      • Sideshow Bob


        I don´t know, if the French midget in question was called Sarkozy, and there was an interesting mix of leather and fishnet tights involved, I have a feeling that Paschal might actually enjoy that particular suggestion. I get the feeling Enda likes what Angela dishes out to him, for sure.

        Different strokes for different folks (literally), I guess!

  14. dwalsh

    Just goes to show how disgruntled so many are by how things are developing politically and economically and socially; not just in Britain, but globally.
    Ordinary people are not impressed at all by neoliberal globalism and the fetishisation of markets and banks and the financial sector.
    Ordinary people feel left out and left behind and are saying they do not like the way the elites are managing and developing their nations and the world.

    Almost any European nation would get a similar result if allowed to vote.
    This result is not really about the European Union per se.
    Most people are positive about a unified Europe.
    it is what Europe is becoming that is the problem.
    Europe is losing its democratic validity and being run by unelected bureaucrats.
    Europe is dismantling its social structures and mandate and fetishizing markets and banks.
    Europe began as a humanist project of social democracy for the upliftment of our nations and society; but it has morphed into a neoliberal market fundamentalism.
    Maggie Thatcher’s vision is coming to reality….
    There is no such thing as society
    There is only an aggregate of individuals competing in a market.

    That is not what ordinary human beings believe or want.
    This is a protest vote

  15. michaelcoughlan

    Hello David,

    I was thinking about madman Peter Sutherland and I consider the best way to communicate with a madman like him is to get another madman to lecture to him. The following is only 2mins and well worth watching;


    • michaelcoughlan

      At the end the madman in the video states the most perfectly sane sentence I have heard spoken by anyone in a long time;

      Money is only real to those of us who have to work for it……. to the people who don’t need to work for it, it’s a monopoly game…….. the people who live on that level they don’t care about the average mule going back and forwards to work……….they don’t care about the children in the streets thrown out of this upper echelon of existence……………

      “It goes to the point of does anyone really care, and who does care, and if anybody cares they are considered CRAZY”

  16. Truthist

    Brits talking about Peter Sutherland [ "Suds" ] now ;

    From Dogman ;
    a moderator on Chris Spivey’s Blog ;




    JUNE 25, 2016 @ 11:01 AM

    Peter Sutherland is the United Nations Special Representative of the Secretary-General (SRSG) for International Migration.

    Appointed in January 2006, he supported the Secretary-General in promoting the United Nations agenda on international migration prior to and during the 2006 High-level Dialogue on International Migration and Development as well as the 2nd High-level Dialogue in 2013.

    With the Secretary-General, he proposed and advocated for the creation of the State-led Global Forum on Migration and Development (GFMD) in 2006, which now attracts over 150 countries annually to advance international cooperation on migration.

    OK ?

    Here is what BBC reported ;

    “The EU should “do its best to undermine” the “homogeneity” of its member states, the UN’s special representative for migration has said.

    Peter Sutherland who is non-executive chairman of Goldman Sachs International and a former chairman of oil giant BP, told peers the future prosperity of many EU states depended on them becoming multicultural.

    He also suggested the UK government’s immigration policy had no basis in international law.

    He was being quizzed by the Lords EU home affairs sub-committee which is investigating global migration.

    He told the House of Lords committee migration was a “crucial dynamic for economic growth” in some EU nations “however difficult it may be to explain this to the citizens of those states.”

    So is mass migration going to continue in Europe, and will it effect us for the remainder of our time in the EU? See (38) above.

    Are they trying to destroy nation states to help bring in a NWO ?

    I reckon so,

    But I’m curious to see how they work Brexit to their advantage

  17. Truthist

    Always important to keep abreast of the following cerebral & pithy internet commentators that are never dull ;

    Henry Makow ; Canadadian

    Gilad Atzmon ; Israeli & U.K. based

    So, here are the Google results for the following search terms string ;

    brexit aftermath June 2016 AND Henry Makow AND Gilad Atzmon


  18. Deco

    David you are on a completely different wavelength to the amatuer, overpaid local authority councillors in FG. FG are more interested in a pat on the head than in any of the above.

    Thanks for bringing up the housing issue. We have too little accomodation space for the workforce currently located in Dublin. And building houses in Carlow again is a load of BS. We need to build upwards, like occurs in every other city of similar scale in Europe.

    But, as you pointed out, this is more likely to occur if the jackasses in power have to impress investors than if they have to serve locals who pay 50% marginal taxes instead of Apple rates.

    In fact not just Dublin. Galway also needs to build upwards.

    And not just in relation to housing. But also transport. The DART underground has been long fingered for ever. We need the DART to Blanchardstown, not Balbriggan. We need it to Celbridge also. It needs to operate as a system for moving people, not as a system for relecting corrupt politicians.

    Our state agencies are infested with amatuerism. They await grants for everything. They then issue tenders that seem to go to the strangest of chums. It is almost as if the winners know the contract before the tender is given to the public.

    We really need to think efficiency.

    You are correct. We have two years. After that London’s Crosslink I project will have made transport more efficient. Crosslink 2 will be underway. And the Northern rail project centred on Manchester will be under in construction, transforming transport in the North of England. Meanwhile CIE will be playing with Luas tracks. Luas is NOT fast. It is chronically slow.

    Higher density residential plannig, and higher density public transport to get people to and from work faster.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej


      “We need to build upwards, like occurs in every other city of similar scale in Europe.”

      what you are saying about the density and heights in Dublin is of course right – in one of my first discussions here on this blog I argued that contrary to popular myth, Ireland does not have enough people to really count in Europe, which is the reason why since last year, when Szydlo’s national government was elected, Prime Minister Cameron visited Poland 4 times regarding Brexit and he visited Ireland 0 times, the House of Commons launching the anti-Irish corporation tax attack (the said depopulation/Pavlov’s dogisation seems to be a deliberate plan – fluoride, swine flue vaccines, disarmament, propagation of gay marriages – the discussion in the Irish Times resulted the following breakdown of figures: 98% of published opinions for, 2% against – so even worse than in the referendum; and now, when Ireland’s position is wobbling and, once dealt with the Visagrád Group – Ms Merkel has demanded this week that those countries get rid of their armies and intelligence and in the white book of Bundeswehr which will be published in July she is changing the rules of admitting soldiers in a way which will allow to admit non-nationals, including asylum seekers and citizens of other countries – the Irish are again subjected to tiresome discussion on another abortion referendum – maybe someone in the 6 founding EU countries thinks that there are still too many of them) and hence depopulated Ireland is underachieving in terms of political clout because of her sub-Western Saharan densities (of course this does mean I am advocating indiscriminate imports of population): Ireland of 20 million people (Benelux densities) would have 5 times as much political influence in Europe (i.e.), while 20 million people Ireland would have 10 times with a proper army could easily politically outweigh debilitated France.

      But I am just reiterating my points I have made last year, the purpose of it being that there is not even one Irish newspaper or TV/Radio station where you would hear that point of view – not even from Mr Martin McGuiness.

      As to your point on maximum building heights, you know perfectly well Deco what my opinion is: that the city council should have f…l all to say on that (btw: what was the rationale for granting the Muslim community in Dublin hard-to-achieve charity tax status – can the same be granted to those from Polish nationalists community with an army background that would like to run (i.e. through FAS) army skills education courses (from shooting ranges and self-defence, via survival and terrain orientation camps (I was talking to a girl who runs something similar for CDU in Germany and she says most of German youth is unable to even use a knife for cutting food), to basic-counter-intelligence techniques – basically how to recognise a spy and a provocateur (as seen in the post-Brexit Britain) – the latter (civil counter-intelligence) were taught even in Catholic schools for girls in pre-WWII Poland,) for secondary schools, so that the balance of power would tilt from criminals and drug dealers in favour of non-criminals and anti-drug parents? No? I thought so – dear councillors, you subsidise Quran readings, but you would be afraid if the natives became to independent from the police in fighting the criminal behaviour – that would give them notions, would it not?).

      When city councils had f…k all to say on those issues, they were able to build an Empire State Building in a year and half without holding the street traffic. But since councils have a say on that, they should make sure that the maximum limit is as high as possible (500 metres in Docklands?) in places where it is reasonable (I assume you are familiar with the Common Law so that I can invoke the Lord Acton’s concept of the ‘reasonable man’ and negligence in ensuing court cases related to construction). However, the opposite is true, and this is in keeping with the thesis I have been propounding that the real goal of the regulators is for the prices to go up, and they will do everything they can not to upset the delusionary balances sheets of their middle-class voters they rely on. Example? The Dublin council planners had proposed that the maximum heights in key areas of the city could be as high as 28 metres, but the councillors reduced it to 24 metres for residential areas. In the city suburbs, the planners proposed 16 metres, which would have allowed five storeys, the councillors reduced it to 13 metres of four storeys. Combined with that is the lack of repossessions to free up more house for renting (Ireland has one of the lowest repossession rates in Europe, if not the lowest). This is confirmed by 4 people in Ireland who track those court proceedings, Messrs Brendan Burgess (AskAboutMoney), Seamus Coffey (University College Cork – Mr Coffey is Cork University redemption for the ignorant Dr Kevin McCarthy), Karl Deeter and your humble servant (greetings to Court 33 overseen by Registrar Ms Rita Considine).

      The evidence for this is as follows: in 2014, they started 8,293 cases for repossessions. In 2015 the elections were approaching and they had 4,088 (the total number of restructured mortgages was 48,000 in 2015). Out of all cases, 50% saw the adjournment after the first adjournment, a practice they call ‘practice direction adjournment’ (compare that with TV license cases), with 76% of people not showing up at all. Having promulgated a view on this blog that the main problem of the worlds economy is debt, I am not advocating the Dickensian approach to debt and repossessions – on the contrary, in some cases I would advocate debt forgiveness, in keeping with the Bible; however – in 97% of all cases the borrower paid 0 (in words: zero) – now think: what would happen to you if you had been continuing for years to pay zero for your TV licence or the Dublin Bus racket journey? – in 20% of them the house was empty anyway. This evidence was submitted to the Oireachtas Housing Committee and they chose to ignore it, and if t h a t is not the supply-limiting, bubble inflating policy to keep the illusion of the growing economy (“your house is going up in value, let’s keep the recovery going”), then call me a fairy.

      Now the names of the Oireachtas Committee on Housing who ignored that evidence:

      FG – Colm Brophy, Bernard Durkan and Fergus O’Dowd
      FF – Mary Butler, Barry Cowen, John Curran, Eoin Ó Broin
      SF – Kathleen Funchion
      AAA-PBP – Ruth Coppinger
      Labour Does Not Work – Brendan Ryan
      Ind – Dr Michael Harty, Mick Wallace (I do not agree with the latter on some of his political views, but I respect Mr Wallace for voting against increasing his own salary as a TD).

      Now, this is at the cost of the homeless, working poor and people who are renting (who have no political representation).
      Less houses on the market = higher rent prices.
      Higher rent supplement = rent supplement non-receivers outbidding by rent supplement receivers = higher rent prices.

      Ain’t no rocket science, dudes.

      • E. Kavanagh

        Building up, sure a good idea that has been around for decades and decades.
        Going to a population of 20M so Ireland can have more influence in the EU; the worst idea ever perhaps.
        Getting out of the EU would be a far superior idea; and I’m not in favour of that.
        There is no reason why Ireland can’t remain one of the small nation and just veto some of the more unreasonable stuff; working on a Danish model.
        Isn’t the Treat of Nice still exempting Ireland from participation in an EU army?

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          1. “Going to a population of 20M so Ireland can have more influence in the EU; the worst idea ever perhaps” – so you claim that Benelux (comparable size to Ireland) should be depopulated by 4/5 because they had embraced on ‘the worst idea ever perhaps’ (and they always had been the richest and most densely populated region of Europe; Switzerland in turn was always poorer than the densely populated Czech lands until… 1940s!)?

          2. ‘Getting out of the EU would be a far superior idea’ – it depends on what terms; mind you, if on Norwegian (and this is the best what Ireland can hope), this will not stop immigration and will worsen Ireland’s balance with the EEA (similar fees but no subsidies – see Norway); however, if Ireland is willing to implement radical free-market reforms (ie exclude itself from CAP and end subsidies for farmers, thus causing a dramatic drop in food prices, like in 80s New Zealand; end subsidies for DB; adopt a sound monetary system, etc), then I would say leaving the EU might the best.

          Hitherto Ireland does not have a political party which would have that in its manifesto (I am working on it that it will, but things look bleak now – people love to criticise and give out, but few want to act) – worse than that, the main opposition parties (SF, Paul Murphy and his ilk) propose more regulation.

          3. “There is no reason why Ireland can’t remain one of the small nation and just veto some of the more unreasonable stuff; working on a Danish model.” – the strong reason why Ireland will not do that is because her politicians lack courage. If they had courage, they would have went to Prague where the Visegrad Group is trying to do precisely this: to block attempts of building a European superstate and devolve into Europe of nations.

          They would have backed Mr Jaroslaw Kaczynski’s demand that the EU Commission should be sacked and a new Treaty based on nation states, with clear limits of the EU Commission power, is needed.

          Instead the Taoiseach seeks alliance with Germany and believes that Germany will give Ireland ‘special considerations in Europe’ (some people here on this blog claim that He is a cross-dresser – if that’s true, it would exlain his softness with Angela), while commentators such as Mr Kevin Doyle believe that… the socialist, terrorists ridden, paedophiles covering, euthanasic and collapsing Belgium will be Ireland’s strong ally in supporting the idea of the Europe of nation states (I do not know what Mr Doyle’s condition is, but I am sure it is hard to pronounce).

          They will be in for a disappointment.

          “Isn’t the Treaty of Nice still exempting Ireland from participation in an EU army?” – I answer with question: does the EU law not forbid conducting Minsk talks by Germany in the name of the EU while skipping all the EU structures as set out in the Nice/Lisbon Treaty?

          So far things are looking rather s…t for those who are opposed to the EU army (so that includes me – I am in favour of a very strong Irish army):


          “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom (Fourth Reich? – or perhaps the Chinese-Russian-Prussian alliance – G.K.) that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. Daniel 7:23-24 NIV

  19. Deco

    The Irish establishment, and their incompetence is the reason why there are so many Irish in Britain.

    The sight of Kenny canvassing for Merkel, Juncker, etc… is embarrassing.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Yes. Kenny is like Castro sucking Soviet cock for money transfers to keep the lights on when his own policies resulted in all the talent quitting Cuba the same result of course achieved in Ireland by successive Irish gubuernments.


  20. Pat Flannery

    Ireland pleading for special status for Ireland is actually Ireland pleading for special status for Britain because Ireland does need special status in the EU. It already has all the status it needs. Ireland needs to continue its reorientation away from Britain. That is the best policy for Ireland.

    Britain miscalculated by telling itself that Europe would allow it to remain in the single market after exiting the EU. All the pleadings in the world, by Ireland or anybody else, will not persuade the EU to allow that to happen. Britain is out. Ireland is in. Deal with it.

    • Deco

      Ireland “has all the status it needs” ?

      The leader of the Irish government running around canvassing for Brussels, in a sovereign state, whilst exposing the fact that we are not a sovereign state…..How exactly is that status ?

      We bailed out the PRIVATE – UNSECURED debts of PRIVATE banks for this “status” ? Or maybe we had a status that resulted in this idiotic policy ? Meanwhile our debts shoot upwards, and our hospitals are unable to cope. We never told the bondholders to “deal with it” because the ECB insisted that the debts get thrown onto the welfare state.

      Fu(k status. It is useless. It means the working people get raped in every paycheck for lobbyists in Brussels. It is exactly the sort of nonsense that David described in “the good room”. It is a form of imprisonment.

    • michaelcoughlan


      Your posts are incredulous at best. Britain’s economy is too big for the EU to try and bully the UK. A free trade agreement between the UK and the EU will be negotiated.

      Ireland’s best interests are to become indispensable to the UK. Most of us have family members there or the US etc.


      • Pat Flannery

        Michael: No bullying. They’re just out, that’s all. No negotiating necessary.

        • michaelcoughlan


          A free trade agreement between the UK and the EU will be negotiated.


          • Pat Flannery

            Michael: I agree. But it will not be an Anglo-Irish trade agreement. Britain has carelessly thrown away any special relationship with Ireland. Ireland’s best interests are to become indispensable to the EU not the UK.

          • CitizenWhy

            Agree. But only after some pouting by the EU. Brussels will oppose. Germany will come to favor. Germany dictates. France follows.

      • Pat Flannery

        Michael: Britain will be sending a new anti-EU Prime Minister to Brussels to negotiate a new trade agreement between the UK and the EU. He or she will get a very different reception from that enjoyed by David Cameron when Britain was still a member.

        The first thing the new PM will be told is that British access to the European single market is off the table. That privilege is reserved for member states only. The British may well play the victim and characterize that as bullying, but its just a statement of fact, a fact the British have missed.

        What is negotiable are the usual terms of international trade agreements where everything is on the table. Each side will look to its own interests e.g. Germany will want to continue to sell BMWs to Britain and Britain will want to continue to make parts for the Airbus etc.

        Don’t worry, there will be no bullying, just normal tough trade negotiations. Good luck.

        • CitizenWhy

          And trade agreements, with many favoring or at least stabilizing UK manufacturing.

          France actually has the most to lose., It would no longer be able to send its youth to Britain to get the jobs they cannot get in France due to its labor laws. They will have another rebellious group on their hands.

          • cooldude

            Wrong Pat as usual. Britain have to invoke Article 50 and this has to be passed in parliament. As it stands there is 250 majority against this. It would need a general election to invoke this and the EU know this very well.

            It will be all scare and weak pound and pension destruction for the Brits. I think they can handle this shit.

  21. Truthist

    Zoro to the rescue for Putin ;


    If Putin enacts this, it will be one hell of a cheeky move against the Banksters.

    And, the Hidden Government of Germany is making love with Russia now behind Merkel’s back.

    Merkel is a Goner very soon.

    • Deco


      We need 30% more capacity on the system. We do not need this sort of nonsense, which is of no benefit to the public.

    • michaelcoughlan

      What’s your point truthist?

      • Truthist

        Self-explanatory Michael in the context of what we are very familiar with in Deco’s, & Grzegorz’s, writings :

        C.I.E. are draining the country of funds as it is.
        Also, they are ineffective, & inefficient, overall compared to how they should be were they managed properly.

        Now, highly paid bus-drivers of C.I.E. are demanding salary increases that are unjustified.
        Arguably, they should not get any salary increase when comparing their existing salaries against employees of similar level of general skills get typically in private sector.

        Please Note ;

        I do support the drivers & conductors in their ongoing plight of dealing with heroin, & cocaine, & crack cocaine, addicts on drugs on buses.

        But, the rich of Irish State do not want to talk or address that problem because it is only “poor” people use buses.

        • Deco


          Ireland’s criminal justice system performs a very important economic funtion, stimultaing the income recieved by the legal profession.

          We have a lot of lawyers. Therefore we need plenty of law breaking to provide them with an income.

          • Truthist

            The “Free Legal Aid” Scheme is there to be exploited by the Lawyers at the taxpayers expense.

            Most dumbos — Irish State citizens — do not realise that Free Legal Aid is only available if defendant is the the defendant in a “Criminal” trial ;
            Not available for defendant in “Civil” trial.

            Most top lawyers in Irish State are very likely to be freemasons ;
            Afterall, the posh schools all have their own lodges ;
            Because, most of the Daddies of the spoilt brats attending are freemasons.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej


          not in a position right now to post longer comments, but regarding your comment on 30& pay rise demand (which would put the DB salaries to twice of legal secretaries with 20 years experience and thrice the young graduates with no experience but good qualifications), I have been screaming on this blog that if Ireland wants to retain its competitiveness and win FDI over London, it must address its high cost of living (this does mean only wages, but also – primarily I would say – cost of housing and transport for the new staff relocating to the Big Smoke).

          The whole Keynesian framework of ‘we will inflate the costs/this will create aggregate demand/demand will create jobs/those at the top and in the unions will benefit most/those in the middle/at the bottom will benefit less/those at the very bottom – this often includes smart graduates! – will be bribed with rent allowance, Christmas bonus, J-1 visas and cheap ganja/eventually all of the gains will be swallowed by hyperinflation in property prices and in effect only rentiers-foreign speculators will benefit/so the new Landsdowne Road Agreement will be needed’ is wrong.

          The healthy framework is: everything goes down, but prices a bit more than wages (look at the falling prices of steel/clothing etc in 19th century US/UK), so the country becomes more and more competitive and is able to out-develop its competitors.


          • Truthist

            Rome did not collapse because the Rich became corrupt.
            The Rich are always corrupt.
            Rome collapsed because the Poor became corrupt.

            We cannot have a fair & healthy economy when all the social classes from middle-class [ inclusive ] downwards have become corrupt.

            People must regain the primary motivations to be :




            Instead of copying the wrongs of the rich [ upper middle-class ( inclusive ) upwards ], the poor must honor God in striving to be :
            virtuous & wise.

            My apologies to the Progressive Democrats — Mary Harney, Michael McDowell et all — for bringing God into the challenge.

          • McCawber

            Rome collapsed because the poor copied the rich.

          • Truthist

            “Yes !”

            Thank u McCawber.

            At least for u I do not have to de-construct what I said.


      • Deco

        I think we reached a point of moral bankruptcy when the decision was obeyed, (thanks to the ECB, the EU Commission, and Timothy Geithner/Obama) to bail out the bank bondholders.

        It is impossible say that public money is for the public interest after that.

  22. Deco

    Enda Kenny is being revealed to be an amateur. His chosen successor, is an even bigger waste of space.

    How amateurish is the Irish institutional state ? Ruairi Quinn looked at the FAS debacle, and decided to namechange/rebrand FAS. There, problem solved. No need to discuss any further. We are in Potemkim village territory.

    I reckon that we are in an awful lot of trouble, because we simply are not running our affairs efficiently. It is a mess.

    The Irish state is not addressing the productivity problem, and is doing all it can to prevent the rest of Irish society from addressing the problem.

    Ireland is two degrees away from being a failed state.

    David thanks for writing an article. We badly need to wake up in this country. The Pravda/Irish times approach of solving the problem with “more resources” is bankrupting us. It is bullsh!t. Absolute BS.

    If the approach of the Irish state to how it operates, does not change in weeks money will be flooding out of the Irish banking system, very quickly.

    Paradoxically, some of it will end up in British banks.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Ireland is a failed state;

      100 year bind sold for financing bankrupt banks. Aib 6 cents shares. Boi 19c. At the same time record level emigration out of the place, Public borrowing still increasing, still a budget deficit, Increase in homeless families, record breaking level of patients on trolleys in corridors, Guards under staffed and under funded, etc. etc. etc.

      • redriversix

        Hi Micheal

        The State as a apart us for government has failed.
        We were sold a long long time ago.

        The country is fine .a wealthy country run like a private company for generations…the spoiled brats who inherit power through their respective parties are like the children if industrialists .

        They presume entitlement ,money & prestige.any love for the Company (Country) withered on the vine long ago…they sell it off piecemeal to feather their own nests and throw the Workers (citizens) out with the garbage as collateral damage.

        You are your country….you & your family.

        Treat every euro as a prisoner…every wage packet as your last.

        And you shall be fine.

      • Truthist

        The public hospitals are at breaking point because of the cosy shop the staff — Senior Civil Servants of Dept. of Health to Consultant Physicians & Surgeons etc to Management to Nurses inter alia — are overall :

        corrupt ethically.

        The Garda-Landlords are :
        NOT under-staffed
        NOT under-funded.

    • Truthist

      International Money Laundering is the biggest game in town [ Dublin ] ;

      That is what the Hidden Government of Ireland are mainly up to in recent years.

      And, to be allowed to do this, they had to sacrifice the nation for the spurious debt.

      David was the Scape-Goat because they knew he would enthusiastically advise the Minister for Finance Brian Lenihen to “sovereignise” the “private” debt of Irish banks ;

      David was wrong, & is wrong, to advise that as the correct course of action ;

      Should u, Deco, accept responsibility for the Cocaine Debts of the spoilt brat Coke Heads in Ballsbridge ?

      No way should u !

      And, after Brexit, the Hidden Government of Ireland are gearing up to go very heavy into this International Money Laundering Shenanigans.

      City of London [ incl. Isle of Man, Jersey, etc ] is Level 1 of International Money Laundering ; Nasty

      Virgin Islands etc is Level 2 of International Money Laundering ; More Nasy

      Africa [ e.g. Nigeria ] is Level 3 of International Money Laundering ; Most Nasty

      In fact, the most effective International Money Laundering goes through Step 1, 2, & 3.

      Hidden Government of Ireland are now going to up their game from Level 1 to Level 2.

      Here is the Hierarchy of Power in the Irish State in decreasing order of Power ;

      Level 1
      The Hidden Government ; The most powerful Level

      includes :

      Select Representative[s] For Foreign Multi-National Companies based in Irish State
      Select Industrialists
      Select Banksters
      Select Politicians
      Select Politicos other than Politicians
      Select Civil Serpents
      Select Media men
      Select Business men
      Select Agri-Business Representives
      Select Intellectuals
      Select Specialists [ Science ]
      Select Lawyer[s]
      Select Freemason
      Select Member[s] of Council of State of Irish State
      Select Garda-Landlord ; Not necessarily Commissioner
      Select Army person
      Chief of Irish State’s Secret Service
      Select Person[s] to represent the E.U. concerns ; Suds ?
      Select Religious from Catholic Church & Church of Ireland ;
      As courtesy only if sincerely Christian

      Level 2

      Institutional State of Irish State [ I.S.I.S. ] as an Egrogore

      Egregore ;
      A “thoughtform” or “collective group mind”, an autonomous psychic entity made up of, and influencing, the thoughts of a group of people.


      Corporate Ireland
      Financial Sector
      Insurance Sector
      Real Estate Sector
      Retail Sector
      Civil Serpents
      Union Senior Leadership
      Catholic Church
      Church of Ireland
      Professional Class
      Professional Institutes
      Law Society of Ireland

      Level 3

      The official Government / The temporary Government

      Level 4

      The permanent Government

      The Civil Service

      • Deco

        No. I do not think that the welfare state should be asked to pay for the gambles made in the midst of cocaine fueled irrational exhuberance in the middle of the last decade.

        Moral hazard, that concept that the ECB seems to deny as being a factor in financial investing, is something that never goes away.

  23. Right, I’m outta here again. Other projects to attend to.

    I wish the island of Ireland well in it’s future. With Scotland and Northern Ireland exerting their right to jump from the Ship of State that is the United Kingdom, and Ireland embedding itself ever deeper into the EU and Euro projects, it’s time for us all to move on. They are decisions which must be accepted and respected.

    I can no longer look forward to the day when the tunnels between these Isles of Wonder open. This greatly saddens me as I read about the plans for the Bohai Strait tunnel. For me, the only real point of the UK tolerating the horror of EU membership has always been so that both these Isles of Wonder could be finally linked to share peace and prosperity. The EU will NEVER allow that to happen now.

    Birmingham and the Saxon Shires came top of the tops for telling the EU to FcUK off. We’ll get HS2 which will join us to the wealth of London and the South-East, probably with the 3rd or 4th ‘London’ airport at Birmingham Internation. Off the plane, onto HS2 train, in London in 50 mins. HS2 will extend to the North of England but it will NOT now be extended to Scotland. But what WILL now happen is a major investment in infrastructure links between England and Wales. I envisage a rail-tunnel link to Aberystwyth which I think will then become a mirror-image of Dublin on the opposite side of the Irish Sea. Link Aber to Cardiff and Liverpool (without a feed to Holyhead) and it a new vision of Albion and Cymru begins to take shape.

    In decades to come I believe the peoples of Scotland and Ireland will gnash their teeth in absolute despair as they watch the next British Empire arise from all this whilst the European Union implodes once the Euro explodes. Isolated by the sea or a new Hadrian’s Wall, they will be isolated behind borders of their own choosing and making, lost in an irrelevant historical costume drama, choking on their utterly incoherent Victim Scripts. And once the Euro crashed and burns, we’ll see if the United States cares about it’s special friend, Ireland.

    Tonight, we play our friends in Iceland who also will not have any truck with the nonsenses of the European Union. I believe they set the example to follow by refusing to capitulate to Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling’s threats. Project Fear failed for them and it failed for Juncker. But now it’s time for us all to move on.

    The premise of this article is that Ireland can organise a coherent response to these events and act calmly, rationally and in ‘Ireland’s self-interest. But I do not think that is possible as ‘Ireland’ effectively surrendered it’s Sovereignty to foreign powers by adopting the Euro. Thus it will act in the interests of the European Union and the ECB. It will remain a geo-strategic hedge for the US and UK whilst the Euro dies it’s death-throes. Then it will revert to a backwater.
    Ireland adoption of the Euro was always a geo-strategic hedge by the US and the UK. As long as the EU remains functional, Ireland will be economically wealthy. But it will never be free. Ireland has prioritised short-term financial comfort over long-term Nation State destiny. Brexit has shown that England and Wales have done the exact opposite.

    Wishing you all well in the turbulent years ahead and thanks for all the stimulating debates over this last decade, and to David McWillaims for hosting this educational, entertaining and tolerant cyber-cafe.


    “Three-quarters of Irish firms surveyed at the time said that a fixed link with Europe was vital.”


  24. CitizenWhy

    Yes, for Ireland to protect its own interests it must protect the interests of Britain against any punitive actions by the EU.Will the intellectually dim “leadership” class of Ireland see this and, if they do, know how to do this?

  25. Deco

    How about a direct swap ?

    Put Roy Keane in charge of the state, and send Enda Kenny around as ball boy for the soccer squad boss.

  26. CitizenWhy

    It is possible – for many good reasons – that the current EU will implode and Europe will renegotiate only a trading and cross border travel (and maybe a work exchange arrangement) treaty and that’s it. No Brussels, no Euro. Britain’s back in in that case. We don’t know, but this is a plausible possibility.

    • E. Kavanagh

      I’d have thought a 2-tier or 3-tier EU was more likely. The EU should take this as an opportunity to set up such a multi tier EU, and in a nod to democracy make it relatively easy for countries to swap tiers.

      • McCawber

        “In a nod to democracy.”
        You should listen to yourself.
        You’ve been indoctrinated.
        The British electorate has just put a shot across the bow of that kind of thinking.
        We should offer up a prayer of thanks that somebody had the balls to do it.
        Europe is in grave danger of collapse because it is so undemocratic. .

  27. Deco

    What is about the political party that gets termed the maFFia ?

    I told you that the SNP were Scotland’s answer to FF. Reckless borrowing, fantastic promises, and sums that do not add up.

    But this is comical.


    From the leader of the party that sold out to the EU.

    If Scotland aspires to being badly run joke, then dvice from Bertie Ahern, Micheal Martin, etc…. will be helpful along that path.

    From Ireland’s perspective this is a diplomatic disaster.

    If only Micheal Martin was a willing to comment on FF corruption, brown envelopes, wasting state money, cronyism, bailouts, planning permission debacles, corrupt local authorities, etc…

  28. red bull

    Once again Official Ireland are exposed for the moronic, short sighted, useless twats they are. “Soft Landing/Bank bailout” Marks 2/3/4 …
    I think the one thing we can be sure of yet again is that the political class and the senior civil service will stuff things up for all of us who have to live in the real economy.

    • Deco

      The state led by lethargy. The consequences of this are decades out. And those consequences are going to be really bad.

  29. As the world turns………..
    Had a lovely day out on the water. 23 degrees, gentle breezes, competitive friendly club race, fun friendly camaraderie after on the docks.
    The world as it should be.

    Web master, there is a glitch. I still do not get the “Notify me of followup comments via e-mail” Can you please assist. Yes I click the box and look in the spam etc. Yes I get the email notice for a new article.

  30. McCawber

    Not so long a go France came close to becoming a Communist state.
    Ditto Italy and Spain.
    Harold Wilson was alledged to have been a communist too but getting Britain to go Communist would be virtually impossible.
    Have I left anyone out, ah yes Madame Merkel.
    Anyone seeing a trend here.
    There is more than one way to skin a cat and getting Britain out of the way would be a great first step.

  31. survivalist

    BS! I don’t know what the breakdown of the 35billion Britain receives in yearly ‘foreign investment’ is supposed to be, nor do I have a notion about what ‘Brexit’ will lead to in a directly causal chain of events. And I very much doubt I am alone in this.

    In fact I suppose that I am just like every other MSM economist in respect to both these matters. And just like these preachers I will not allow my ignorance of such facts to prevent me from propagandizing in the manner of a new age minister which is of course their primary role.

    It does afterall, require a constant effort on the part of people to reject the present system’s truisms.

    So what are the obvious statements; Brexit will be used as an opportunity by the Capitalist/Elite class profit themselves and at the expense of the plebs. Lesser Capitalists would be wise to pay attention to the real movers of the system and follow their lead.

    Got it, anything new?

    London will remain the money laundering centre of the world Brexit or not, and the only thing that threatens that position is New York’s desire to overtake London on that score.

    It (our economic system) is of course, never described in these terms in the media. They, the economist’s and journalists, have been through the right indoctrination/education system and recognise how and when to use the appropriate code words.

    So it’s never London’s money laundering scams, but rather London’s financial centre. Loot and the plunder is described as foreign investments, and so on. Please feel free to add to this needed lexicon.

    As industriously as the money is laundered, so too is the reputation of ‘the city’ in the media and the conscience of all its actors wiped clean by any means they so choose; everything can be found for a price on the market, especially clemency.

    Ireland has I believe been a civilizing force on the people of Europe and the World. No advancement of the rights of any minority or oppressed agent would have been secured without a number of critical factors.

    The first being that the oppression was endured, the second that it was overcome and the third that it gains recognition and awareness in popular consciousness that it becomes internalised in people generally.

    Ireland and her people have a much higher role to play in the relationship between freedom and international Capital and its administrators aka Governments. Rather than to go cap in hand to the next overlord; sovereignty must be rekindled. Who else is capable?

    • Deco

      Ireland was a civilizing force until CJH emerged on the scene. After the reign of CJH, the Bertie Party became sick, toxic, and corrupt.

      We have not been a civilizing force since then. We have been a corrupting force. We sold out to any bidder, who would best hide the brinbe, not necessarily the highest one.

      We need to get our house in order. We are not organized or ready to handle this. Once again a lost decade awaits. We know the problem. But nobody will fix it.

      • Truthist

        Agree more or less about Charles J. Haughey [ C.J.H. ] part.

        I qualify that CJH was :

        much better than appreciated

        much worse than reviled.

        Sorry for the conundrum.
        And, sorry for not explaining it now ;
        But, I aim to do so soon when I can.

        Actually, CJH was a scapegoat for his times ;

        Plenty of other corrupt equally politicos then :

        Civil Servants

        CJH in his public notoriety served these folks well by inadvertently conditioning the public to accept corruption in high office with his charisma.
        And, the public secretly enjoyed it his machinations ;
        Because, the Irish love a rogue.

        We ain’t called “The Nation of Rhaints & Rholars” for nuttin !

        Fine Gael / Blue-Shirts have been really more corrupt & contemptuous of the nation than Fianna Fail ;
        It is just that they can mask it more by appearing to be more civilised, & competent ;
        They emanating from our patrician class.

        Agree 100%, with ur “After the reign of CJH,…” text onwards.

  32. “If we had a world with truly free trade we’d have a world of peace and prosperity like we’ve never known it.”

    “…or the communist style central banking system that enabled it and hollowed out every economy in the world…”


    • Truthist

      Excerpt from the following link which I gave already in post above
      June 27, 2016 at 2:32 pm


      Zoro to the rescue for Putin ;




      If Putin enacts this, it will be one hell of a cheeky move against the Banksters


      The Silver Ruble Coin for Russia

      Hugo Salinas Price

      I. Russia: Leadership Through Better Ideas
      II. The Silver Ruble Coin Revolution Strengthens Russia
      III. The Silver Ruble Coin: True Wealth for Russians
      IV. Economic Effects of the Russian Silver Ruble Coin
      V. The Russian Silver Ruble Coin vis a vis the US Dollar
      VI. Silver Ruble Coin and the Money Supply
      VII. Central Bankers and Silver Money
      VIII. The Failure of Mechanistic Economics

  33. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Everyone,

    I wonder in the name of God if there is any truth in the following terrifying newspaper articles;



    If true David it looks like the despicable suds knew what he was doing all along.


    • CitizenWhy

      It’s just as plausible that the US neo-cons deliberately wanted to create a refugee crisis – specifically, a Muslim one – in order to undo European Social Democracy and turn some European countries into highly financialized and militarized economies, like the US. It was the US neo-cons who created the mess in the Mdiddle East.

    • Well of course it is true Michael. No surprise as it was the original intention to merge Europe into a homogenized mass where the nation states are destroyed in the name of the common good.

      In 50 years there will be no Irish. Your nationality will be submerged into a Euro zone together with the help of uncontrolled immigration. Welcome to the agenda of the one world government elites.

      This is war by any other name. An invasion of Europe is happening with the front line troops the dispossessed of the world. They are mainly dispossessed by the actions of the western industrial democracies who have decided that they can bomb the bejeusus out of any country they deem needs fixing.

      • michaelcoughlan


        I am a few years on the board and all I can say is that our collective commentary is getting crazier and crazier and I don’t mean that as an insult Tony.

        Its like the various scenes in Orwell’s 1984 movie becoming reality.

        I am finding it more and more difficult to try and decipher what is conspiracy theory and what isn’t. I hope I am not the crazy sob.


        • Truthist

          Very good observation Michael.

          Well then, start reading :

          Henry Makow

          Gilad Atzmon

          Jonas Alexis, & D. Preston James, of Veterans Today

          They are ahead of the posse.
          They have the inside track .
          They are rational.
          They are not racist.
          They are well intentioned.
          They are not “really” trying to make money from their readership ; Unlike controlled opposition Alex Jones with his infowars.com website.
          Although, it is acceptable that they have some products for sale to cover their costs.

        • Truthist

          Very good observation Michael.

          Well then, start reading :

          Henry Makow

          Gilad Atzmon

          Jonas Alexis, & D. Preston James, of Veterans Today

          They are ahead of the posse.
          They have the inside track .
          They are rational.
          They are not racist.
          They are well intentioned.

  34. Reality Check

    @michael, That wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest. I believe they call it; “Doubling down”. I call it; “digging the hole deeper” .

    The Globalist arrogance and contempt for the masses knows no bounds.


  35. http://cluborlov.blogspot.ca/2016/06/firing-elites_28.html#more

    “The main point is that the malign elites very much need to be fired, both in Europe and in the US. There are several problems with them, which I would like to briefly enumerate:

    • Patriotism is one’s love of one’s native land and people. It is a natural, organic result of growing up in a certain place among a certain people, who have also grown up there, and who pass along a cultural and linguistic legacy that they all love and cherish. This does not imply that those not of one’s family, neighborhood or region are in any way inferior, but they are not one’s own, and one loves them less.
    And so they need to be fired. If this is to be done by voting (as opposed to, say, from a cannon) then the object of voting is to elect somebody who is, first and foremost, capable of firing these elites. The British seem to have done this; now it is the Americans’ turn. A somewhat thoughtful question that is sometimes asked (after people are done making spurious claims that Donald Trump is insane, a misogynist, a racist, a fascist, a bad businessman, generally not very nice or whatever else) is whether he is qualified to govern. To my mind, this question reduces to a much simpler question: Is he qualified to fire people? And the answer is, Yes, he most certainly is qualified to fire people. In fact “You’re fired!” is one of his trademark utterances. In fact, he just recently fired his very own campaign manager. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, heads up the entire cohort of people that need to be fired. And that is why I think there is a good chance that the “little people” will finally rise up and vote for somebody who will do just that.”

  36. bilimori


    I am disappointed in D.McW. commentary and most other commentaries, it all smacks of commercial grubbery at a time when the most basic and noble issues should be discussed, namely real democracy, protection of borders, protection of culture and national identity. The subjugation of the elitists and raising the working class so as to take control of their country and its finances, and the need for a swift Irish referendum.

    As long as the Irish are in EU they cannot meaningfully talk about the above. it is a waste of time, You are a subjugated people who will soon have to learn to speak French and German so as to be taught to get the goosestep right while marching to Uber Alles in an EU army.

  37. Deco

    And now the EU has reached an even dafter level of absurdity.

    Jean Claude Juncker is declaring war…..on the English language.

    It seems that he is taking BREXIT personally. This is playschool antics, from the top official in EU bureacracy.

    EK backed that clown to be EU Commission President. And then send Phil “Irish Water” “Housing list” Hogan over to help out.

    Then there is Kevin Cardiff, who is an auditor for the EU, even though he clearly cannot audit. In fact he cannot even pretend to audit.

    Throw in the smirking FG MEP for Dublin and two useless FG MEPs for Munster/IRL-S. [ One of them has "political pedigree, whatver that means" ].

    The EU has a leadership problem. Morons in charge. And they are determined that BREXIT will not make them get their act together.

  38. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-27/president-european-parliament-it-not-eu-philosophy-crowd-can-decide-its-fate

    “Schulz: “The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate”.”"

    Thus speak the neo nazi fascists. The EU ruler are far from being morons as labelled but devilishly intelligent as well as being psychotic.


  39. corkie

    I hope this isn’t too late. A bit of a history lesson on that monster we call the EU. I know some will have their ad hominem attacks ready so I want you to know in advance just how pointless they are:

    • michaelcoughlan

      “ad hominem attacks ”

      A bunker mentalty? Your not a bonbon are you?

      Chomsky’s views are very insightful by the way:-)

  40. Truthist


    Further to Civil Servants chasing salary hikes for themselves :

    Rome did not collapse because the Rich became corrupt.
    The Rich are always corrupt.
    Rome collapsed because the Poor became corrupt.

    We cannot have a fair & healthy economy when all the many social classes from middle-class [ inclusive ] downwards have become corrupt.

    People must regain the primary motivations to be :




    Instead of copying the wrongs of the rich [ upper middle-class ( inclusive ) upwards ], the lesser classes must honor God in striving to be virtuous & wise.

    My apologies to the sensibilities of fans [ And, there were many in the day ] of the Progressive Democrats — Mary Harney, Michael McDowell et all — for bringing God into the argument.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “We cannot have a fair & healthy economy when all the many social classes from middle-class [ inclusive ] downwards have become corrupt.”

      See anything wring with that statement?

      Let me enlighten you;

      You left out the rich whether corrupt or not.

      You have very jaundiced views of the world.

      • Truthist

        This little episode reminds me of an aul favorite yarn about trade union meetings ;

        There is a meeting of the union branch going on ;
        And, it has packed attendance.

        A particular union member there is mourning the death of a work colleague, & is hoping to find opportune time to mention the passing of this brother of the union.
        Having waited patiently for the main business of the meeting to be discussed, he finally has a chance to speak.
        He stands up ;

        “I wish to repose the …” ;

        There he is making a valid string of words that even Chomsky could not fault, when suddenly he is rudely interrupted by the by the booming voice of the Branch Secretary ;

        “U will be proposing no motions her brother until u pay ur outstanding union dues.”

        How silly of the interjector, when the brother was only trying to say ;

        “I wish to repose the soul of our union brother Jimmy Murphy who sadly passed away this week.”

        Michael, will u sip a glass of red wine or have a cigar or a bowl of good nourishing soup & reflect properly on what I actually wrote.

        U are completely wrong in ur interpretation.

        • Truthist

          Typo ;

          “U will be REPOSING no motions at this union meeting brother until u pay ur outstanding union dues.”

        • michaelcoughlan

          Your is jaundiced because of your bias towards the “Rich:” and also your bias towards the civil and public service. Sure there are many wankers in there but they are not all for painting with the same brush.

          I agree that we all need to become more virtuous


          • Truthist

            Re ; my original post, u blind about :

            the complete substance

            the complete purpose

            Re ; my reply to u, u are displaying improvement in ur vision ;
            But, only partial.
            Still, that is a good thing.

            Still, Michael, Re ; x] my body of work that are all my posts AND y] what u say “about me” & z] ur “particular points” in ur 2 recent retorts above, u are greatly mistaken.

            Actually, Michael, I think u meant to say in ur most latter retort ;

            “You are jaundiced because of :

            your bias towards the “Rich:”


            your bias AGAINST [ NOT towards ] the civil and public service.”

            Redacted by Truthist

            U are completely wrong per 1. Michael.

            But, u are completely correct about 2. ;
            And, ‘shur why not’ I be ‘biased against’ the Civil Service ?
            It is deserved.
            By the way :
            Many in the Civil Service are rich, & some of them are super-rich too.
            Effectively, the Civil Service is the apparatus of the Rich to keep the little people productive & / down.
            It is all about CONTROL.

            And, having thought long & deeply with an open mind, I then made a decision a “bias” [if u wish ] ;

            The Civil [ incl. the quasi sub-level "Public" ] are CORRUPT.

            And, were u diligent in reading all my posts & attending to all my links heretofore & in absence of having a memory like an elephant as I do for ur contributions Michael, & our fellow posters, research / “look before u leap”, u would know that I allow for a tiny minority of Civil Servants to be honorable ;
            But, hey, when 1/3rd of folks in jobs in Irish State are Civil Servants, that ==> many honorable Civil Servants in number.
            I cannot be more fair than that.

            Finally to say, Michael, much of my info. is from those exceptional Civil Servants.

          • Truthist

            Typo ;

            Effectively, the Civil Service is the apparatus of the Rich to keep the little people “productive” & / OR “down”.
            It is all about CONTROL.
            And, having thought long & deeply with an open mind, I then made a decision [ a “bias” if u wish ] ;

  41. Truthist


    Further to ur project about “positive” representation of & for Ireland & Irish [ Irish in Ireland & / or Ex-Pat Irish generally or particular to certain countries, & Irish Descendants ] achieved through representation by :

    non-official Irish at home & / or Expat Irish & / or Irish Descendants & / or Non-Irish Hibernophiles

    & / or

    official Irish :
    & / or
    Non-Gov. Body ;
    Religious Body,
    Sporting Organisation,
    Freedom Fighter Organisation,
    Political Parties other than those in Government [ Prior & Then ]
    Professional Institutes
    Political Interest Groups

    Irish Govenment
    Representation by Irish Government to some foreign country affected by some atrocity attributed to IRA or INLA, with purpose of Irish Government to distance the Irish Nation as approving of such atrocity.


    IRA assassination in Netherlands of Australian lawyers by mistake ;

    Result from the following search terms into Google.com ;

    ira kill australian tourists


    I have no time to read the links ;
    But, looks interesting.

    Irish Government

    The following representation was made by Irish Government “for” the good [ arguably ] of the Ireland / Irish People

    De Velera requested U.S.A. President to change the Immigration “open-door” policy for Irish so as to greatly stem the mass emigration of people from Ireland.

    It was from JFK, I think, that he requested & “obtained” the requested result.

    Bet, all in the Blog do not know of that.

    By the way, Peadair O’Donnell [ IRA Freedom Fighter, Socialist, & ex Spanish Civil War fighter for Republican side [ Nationalist side were actually the righteous cause as re-visited history is proving ] reminisced of conversation he had with De Velera ;

    De Velera ; “Peadair, if u were in charge of the country we would still have mass emigration from Ireland.”

    Peadair O’Donnell ; “Yes Dev ; But, different people.”

    The latter Y] above should be of great importance for ur consideration of the Morrison’s Visa Topic.

  42. cooldude

    Slightly off topic but Egon Von Greyerz is always interesting and is definitely controversial with a very good track record on predicting financial events. Here is his current take on the debt saturation problems the world and particularly the banking system is facing. Do not forget that Michael Noonan has signed the bail in legislation and it is now law. Also there is doubt around whether the deposit guarantee system is still in place under the new legislation. I have to do some homework on that one myself. Anyway here is Egon


  43. Pat Flannery

    In case anybody here is still interested in a civil discussion about Brexit I thought I would risk re-stating my personal analysis and what I think will happen next:

    1. Membership of the single market requires free movement of people. Sovereignty in Norway is illusionary because it has agreed to enact all EU law, including the free movement of people, without any representation in the EU. It agreed to pay that price in return for membership of the single market. Clearly Britain will not pay that price. Therefore British MEMBERSHIP of the single market is out.

    2. Consequently the only thing that is on the table is ACCESS to the single market. This is quite different from membership. Many non-EU countries have access agreements. Britain must now negotiate the best access agreement it can.

    3. The terms of a British access agreement, which includes access to the Irish market, will have major implications for Ireland. The Irish Government must therefore strive for terms that will best meet Ireland’s needs not necessarily those of Britain. Merely acting as an advocate for Britain could be costly for Irish interests.

    4. It is unlikely that Ireland will ever follow Britain out of the EU and even more unlikely that it will ever go back into the UK or Sterling. Therefore it will think of itself more and more as a fully integrated member of the European Union while moving further away from Britain.

    5. If Ireland is to play a role as a special friend of Britain in Europe it will be in bridging gaps. Nigel Farage’s xenophobic rant yesterday in the European Parliament will long be remembered. Britain has made a lot of enemies. It will need a special friend. But it will need to be as pragmatic as Ireland if it wants to repair the Brexit damage.

    6. Britain cannot un-ring the Brexit bell. It must now think in terms of Britain’s EXTERNAL association with the EU and must understand that the relationship between Britain and Ireland is changed forever.

    Please, no more personal attacks about me hating Britain. I don’t. I am a pragmatist, that’s all. And please, out of respect for our host, no more xenophobic or conspiracy theory rants. I don’t think David is either of those. As we say when a fight starts in a bar, take it outside.

    • michaelcoughlan


      I am interested because your views held genuinely are contrary to mine. I don’t believe I have a monopoly on knowledge.

      My first response is to tell you that I think the most important reason the Brits voted out knowing the wreckage in the short term was because they were sick shit of the dilution of their sovereignty and the dilution of democratic accountability from the apparatchiks in charge in Europe.

      All the other stuff about immigration etc. is diversionary tactics from one side or the other I feel.

      Britain’s economy is too big not to be taken seriously by Europe and Britain can call on the commonwealth if needed to back her.

      As for Ireland; We need to restrict access to here ASAP BECAUSE we now are the only English speaking part of the EU. All those Latvian s, Poles etc. will now head HERE FIRST putting enormous pressure on a system which still hasn’t recovered from the fall out from Lehman’s meltdown.

      The market will crush Ireland if we persist with the Euro overvalued against Sterling so whether you like it or not we are going back to the punt something we should never have let go of in the first instance. The Brits DON”T need Ireland to advocate for them. They can do that themselves.

      Chances are Ireland will forced out of the EURO and the EU as Brexit (a long time coming and like someone else said is only the first torpedo to hit a sinking ship) in my view is the result out of control money printing to keep hopelessly insolvent banks open and the grotesque distortions created in terms of wealth disparity and social decay which result.

      Finally Pat. The UK began to disintegrate in 1922 when after trying for 700 years we succeeded in shooting our way out of it. And we shot our way out of it for the same reason the brits voted out of the EU in my view. If Ireland is fucked it is only fucked because of we the Irish. I travel around Ireland with the work I do at the moment and I have the privilege to view all the magnificent farmland in this country the most productive in the world.

      Only a race of unmitigated scum like we the Irish see nothing wrong with exiling our finest to other countries to secure careers with salaries that they can provide for their families with and replace them with all the dirt cheap eastern European labour in zero hour Min wage mcjobs and call that progress.

      This country could be another Singapore. Instead what are we witnessing; Mrs Edna over in Europe Castro like begging for still more transfers of money to Ireland from which he pays himself more than Barrack Obama to keep the show on the road.

      We the Irish are a shameless disinterested self serving hypocritical two face fucking race of scum and that’s all we ever have been.


      • Pat Flannery

        Michael: Thank you for the civil response to my post to which I am happy to respond with equal civility. I will start with when the UK began to disintegrate. I would argue that it was in 1918 not in 1922.

        A UK General Election was called for Saturday 14 December 1918, immediately after the signing of the WWI Armistice on 11 November 1918. It was the first UK general election after the British Parliament had passed the Representation of the People Act of 1918, which extended the franchise by 5 million men and over 8 million women by removing much of the age-old property requirements.

        The Government knew that without such reform many of the returning WWI soldiers and their wives (or more often their widows) would have been ineligible to vote and they may have had a civil war on their hands.

        The previous UK General Election was eight years earlier, four years before the ’14-18 War, in December 1910. In that crucial general election the Conservatives lost and the Liberal leader H.H. Asquith only became PM with the support of the Irish Party under Redmond. The deal Asquith did with Redmond was to enact a Third and final Home Rule Bill. Two previous Home Rule Bills had been vetoed by the House of Lords.

        Redmond wisely insisted that before a Third Home Rule bill could be introduced that the power of veto must be taken from the Lords. That was a big ask. But it was done by Asquith. The Parliament Act of 1911 emasculated the Lords. Parliament could just as easily abolish the Monarchy. So they shut up.

        The Third and final Home Rule Bill was passed as the Government of Ireland Act of 1914. Both Asquith and Redmond then knuckled down to fighting the Germans leaving implementation of Home Rule until after the War. A bad mistake on the part of Redmond. The Conservatives were back after the War in December 1918.

        Before the 1918 General Election Sinn Fein issued an open election manifesto which clearly stated that if elected its candidates would not sit in the British Parliament but would instead establish ‘’a constituent assembly comprising persons chosen by Irish constituencies as the supreme national authority’’. In other words it would establish its own Parliament. They were allowed to stand.

        In the electorate’s full knowledge of that open manifesto Sinn Fein won 73 out of 105 Irish seats, 70% of the national vote, in all 32 counties.

        If the SNP got such a vote today would England choose war with Scotland as it did with Ireland in 1919? I hope not.

        What is certain though is that England will not accept Scottish Independence without a fight, especially now that it knows Scotland will immediately run into the arms of the EU. That would be very embarrassing for England. It’s almost as if Mary Queen of Scots has risen from the grave and is spiriting Scotland back under the spell of Catholic France.

        Off to bed, I will answer some of your other points tomorrow.

        • michaelcoughlan


          Your post is neither here nor there. The topic isn’t about Ireland seceding from the UK it is about the UK seceding from the EU.

          Keep on topic in your response. Whether the UK started to disintegrate in 1918 or 1922 etc is only semantics.


          • Pat Flannery

            You are right Michael, I got a little carried away because of my great interest in history. I guess I was reflecting on the continued legitimacy of the UK now that Scotland has cast a similar vote to that of Ireland in 1918.

            But you want me to concentrate on why the UK and Ireland should seceded from the EU. I will try even though I do not agree that Ireland should.

            Your argument seems to boil down to ”the dilution of their sovereignty and the dilution of democratic accountability”. The rest is mostly rhetoric.

            I will therefore offer my own rhetoric. I totally agree that the English should leave the EU, for the many reasons I have outlined on this site many times before. I don’t think the British should ever have joined in the first place. They have an island mentality and value their island sovereignty.

            I also agree with much of what you say about the Irish especially that most of our problems are our own fault. The question then becomes which is best for the Irish, more or less sovereignty. I will argue for less.

            The Irish made a piss poor job of their sovereignty since 1922. Michael Collins would be totally disgusted. Little Ireland became a private club for those who had a shop or a bit of land and could get their children into nice secure, salaried and pensionable jobs with the state.

            If you didn’t ”get the land” or the shop from your parents or you were unable to become a teacher or a guard, you had to head for the boat. And don’t ever come back. I know. I tried. Twice.

            The stay-at-home small farmers, shopkeepers, teachers and guards were in charge and firmly entrenched as County Councillors, undertakers, auctioneers and bank mangers. Clueless returnees like me were contaminated by foreign influences, not members of The Club and nothing better than troublemakers. Like cuckoo’s eggs, we never could be accepted as natives again.

            I am pro EU because I see a huge improvement since Ireland joined. That improvement continues every day the Irish are forced by the EU to implement some form of progressive governance the Irish would never entertain without an EU mandate. The EU is slowly breaking up the private club Ireland had become.

            The Irish are a lawless people by nature. They hate any restriction on their ability to arbitrarily implement THEIR arbitrary laws. Despite being a nominal republic they have no concept of a republic. I hate to go back in history again but they reacted exactly the same when the Tudor English tried to impose progressive European-style law on the arbitrary Gaelic system in the 16th century.

            To sum it up, it’s not that I have such a high regard for the institutions of the EU, it is that I think the Irish need structure which they can never provide by themselves. They are not built that way. For example they stubbornly resist keeping proper minutes of meetings. They reserve the right to lie about it later. They drag their feet in enacting strong EU mandated reforms such as on the dreaded abortion issue.

            As for going back into the UK I would prefer to go back to the chaotic Gaelic tribal system and its Brehon Laws the covert survival of which in many ways explains much of Irish attitudes today.

            To finish with a little humour: if we leave the Euro, or are forced out of it as you predict, our best bet is to adopt the ‘’ Bo’’ as our sovereign currency. The lowly cow is still our basic measure of wealth. (I will not even mention the other ancient Irish coinage, the ‘’cumal’’ or female slave).

            Our roads would again become ‘’bóthars’’ and revert to their original purpose of settling inter-family and inter-tribal debt by driving cattle from one area to another. We really don’t need either the UK or the EU or indeed a United Ireland. We can become a happy nation of ‘’boaire’, Irish cowboys.

        • bilimori

          Pat and DMcW, do not worry about Scotland leaving the UK, it will never happen. The Scots voted remain as they had the expectation that England would vote the same way.

          A few Quisling SNPs grovelling in Brussels do not speak for us Scots.

          In the UK, the roads and rails run North and South.

          Family and friends and hearts and minds, run North and South.

          Business ties and logistics run North and South.

          A magnificent shared history is equally felt throughout the North and South.

          A common hatred of the despicable and parasitical British upper classes run North and South in the hearts and minds of the British working classes.We shall happily send them all to join the queues of Muslim refugees clamouring to get into Europe.

          We Scots got rid of our Conservative and Labour parties, soon it will be obvious to the average Scot that the SNP is also incompetent. When the English finally get a truly Brexit Party and likewise dump Labour and the Tories, then a Brexit majority will also be found in Scotland.

          A resurgent Clydeside, a resurgent Belfast will eventually result.

          Glasgow and Belfast built on trade shall once again flourish.

          Our vast fishing grounds will be restored, and an EU border stretching from Gretna Green to Berwick will never be created.

          The world will be the Brexit oyster.

          Paradoxically the English need their own devolved government so that they can deal with their internal affairs free from Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish interference, leaving Defence and Trade and Central Banking in the hands of a new form of Federated Government in which the four nations had equal Legislative powers.

          Well…. at least that is my dream,


          • Pat Flannery

            It’s good to hear it straight from a true Scot bilimori.

            It sounds like you favour a federation of four independent UK nations. That would be fine if they ever could be equal partners in such a federation. Do you not think that England would always be the dominant partner in a federation, as it has been for centuries in the United Kingdom? Is not the word United ”Kingdom” a clue?

            Why would you want to be an unequal partner in the smaller UK when you could be an equal partner in the much larger EU?

            In the United States the tiny State of Delaware has the same number of Senators as the huge State of California and the US Senate is the most powerful body in the US Congress. Thus a man like Joe Biden from a small town in the small State of Delaware has access to the world stage, first as a US Senator and then as Vice President of the United States the most power nation in the world.

            The UK supposedly fought WWI for the rights of small nations like Belgium, although I think that was more spin than substance. Thank goodness Belgium is still there and is today host to the EU.

            I think the world would be the richer if the Scots emerged from the UK north-south axis you describe into the bigger world and championed the rights of small nations in forums like the EU and the UN.

            The Scots have proven over many centuries that they have much to offer the world. So have the people both Catholic and Protestant of Northern Ireland. I too would love to see a resurgent Clydeside and a resurgent Belfast, whatever form of statehood those nations might choose, so long as they were independent and outward-looking, as the Irish Republic, despite its many shortcomings, undoubtedly is.

            Thanks for the thought-provoking post.

        • Truthist

          U make a number of valid points in ur couple of posts here Pat.
          However, there is much I would disagree with too.

          Especially, ur claim ;

          “They drag their feet in enacting strong EU mandated reforms such as on the dreaded abortion issue.”

          For starters u make reference to the abortion issue as if it is a negative stance to refuse permission or facilitation to perform abortion
          outside of the Irish State.
          i say as I do because this is the longstanding context.
          Actually, Pat, it is a moral & positive stance to protect the unborn child fully.
          And, the protection of the mother fully is likewise a moral & positive duty.

          Fulfillment of both these duties is totally in the scope of competent baby delivery services ;
          And, contrary to the campaigners for abortion, it is never a need to murder the unborn child for to save the life of the mother Pat.
          Protecting the life of the unborn baby never renders the life of the mother to terminate or suffer irredeemably when competent physicians are abiding by the Oath of Hippocrates.

          Do u not know, Pat, the long confirmed observation ;

          “Put an Irishman on horseback, & he will ride to the devil.”

          Historically, & all the ways into the now, many Irish — male & female — indulge themselves in being proper little dictators.

          British Empire actually relied on that feature from the Irish placed in administration & military occupation of all their colonies.

          Presently, E.U. oppressive or just excessive legislation is enforced with venom by Irish officials on the little poor people in the Irish cities, & also on small businesses in Ireland struggling enough as it is to survive & provide jobs & enhance society.

          • Pat Flannery

            Truthist, I inadvertently stepped on the abortion landmine. Sorry about that. I have no opinion on that particular issue, moral or political.

            I do have an opinion on your following statement however:

            ”Presently, E.U. oppressive or just excessive legislation is enforced with venom by Irish officials on the little poor people in the Irish cities, & also on small businesses in Ireland struggling enough as it is to survive & provide jobs & enhance society.”

            Please remember that EU legislation has no effect until it is incorporated into national law. That does not seem to be sufficiently understood in Ireland and probably not at all in the UK.

            Also I am unaware of any instance of an Irish official having ”enforced with venom” any EU-originated Irish law.

            Most EU-mandates incorporated into Irish law that I have seen are for the protection of the environment and for the protection of consumers from powerful business interest.

            Some EU directives have very little relevance to Ireland and are often ignored, like those governing wine making for example, but they must be promulgated by the EU on an EU-wide basis.

            That is something else that is little understood by the Irish public: the EU does not target Ireland or any other individual member state. It legislates for the entire Union. I see that as a great EU strength as there is safety in numbers.

            If Brexit has revealed a systemic flaw in the EU governance it is the absence of education about its laws and method of governance in the member states. That education can only be done at local level.

            But where the will to conduct such education is lacking this flaw will continue. The UK population for example knew more about the US political system than they did about the EU and showed very little interest in learning about it. They are therefore undoubtedly better off outside.

          • Truthist

            Pat, u should have an opinion on abortion ;
            Because it is the most serious moral issue ever between human beings ;
            The right for a baby to :

            “Life” [ Be born ; Noun ]
            AND ; This is an “AND” Scenario
            “live” [ Verb ].

            Of the general rights that are self-evident, the “dual” Right to Life & Live is the most fundamental Right.
            It supersedes rights of nations, & families even ;
            After all, human existence is not going anywhere without this dual phenomenon ;
            Life / Birth & Living.
            So, while I will defend the Family as the fundamental unit of society, I will qualify that at essence we are individuals & rely on Life / Birth & Living to be.
            And, knowing that the Family consists of persons ;
            ==> the Family is contingent of Life & Living of the person.
            And, so on with society of any type :
            Natural Static
            Natural Nomadic

            Actually, Pat, the basis for all law should start from :

            1st Right to Life for Unborn Child

            2nd Right to Live for

            These 2 Rights are sacrosanct regardless of the situation of the Child or Adult ;
            Thus, it is absolutely illegal — & it absolutely illegal in Criminal Law — to intentionally kill any Child or Adult.
            And, it to be that the State has duty to ensure that every person’s basic needs are provided for, & if necessary from the government ;
            Social Welfare being an example.

            All other laws would extend out from these 2 inter-related 1st Principles.

            “The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis.

            ante Alighieri in his famous work “The Inferno”


          • Truthist

            Anyway Pat, just for the record at this juncture as a rule of mine, I do not personalise [ Ref. the negative meaning ] when I write ].
            And, neither are u doing so.

            So, this is a good protocol we have between us.

            OK, I now continue to revert to what u did not say ;


            U have not addressed that observation about Irish often given to being “little dictators”.

            And, here are 2 links about :

            EU oppression of poor persons in EU society


            EU oppression of small businesses.


    • cooldude

      Firstly Pat this is the DMcW blog not yours so it is up to him alone to decide if comments are personal or not respectful. You find it very easy yourself to launch into personal attacks and refuse to debate any articles which come from sources you dont approve of. Maybe you should actually read some of these articles and play the ball rather than the man more often.

      This is an open and generally fair minded blog and I am sure David is well able to speak for himself as he frequently does. In regards to your six points I actually disagree with all six. No harm in that because open and frank discussion is actually a good thing once you have the ability and open mind to actually debate and not constantly put down all views opposed to your own.

      I thought Farage handled himself pretty well. One thing he said that resonated was that he was the only one in the building who had actually worked in the real world and that most/all of the power in the EU resides with the unelected bureaucrats wherever they come from. To me they all appear to be a bunch of ignorant twats. The EU did issue a statement after Brexit looking for full and total integration with one army, central bank and court. Of course I am sure you are aware of this and approve.

      • Truthist

        I am ditto Tony Brogan’s view ;

        The EU Bureaucrats Rulers — Junkers, Jean Claude Trichet, etc. are ;

        Tony Brogan
        June 29, 2016 at 12:02 am

        “far from being morons as labelled but devilishly intelligent as well as being psychotic.

        Thus, Cooldude, we disagree with ur view that they are “ignorant twats” ;

        Now, “devilishly intelligent & psychotic” twats ?

        Hmm, … Yes, I could ascribe that to them.

        “a bunch of ignorant twats” I

        • Truthist

          Typo ; Basically, ignore last line of above please.

          Thus ;

          I am ditto Tony Brogan’s view ;


          The EU Bureaucrats Rulers — Junkers, Jean Claude Trichet, etc. are ;

          Tony Brogan
          June 29, 2016 at 12:02 am

          “far from being morons as labelled but devilishly intelligent as well as being psychotic.

          Thus, Cooldude, we disagree with ur view that they are “ignorant twats” ;

          Now, “devilishly intelligent & psychotic” twats ?
          Hmm, … Yes, I could ascribe that to them.

  44. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    Bullying begins in the way exercised earlier on Greece and Poland:

    Der Spiegel (Mr Christopher Schult): ‘Britain had actually voted against Germany more often than any other country’ (the next in order were Austria – surprise! – and Poland – G.K.!)/

    Wirtschaftswoche: ‘Leave vote would be a chance for Europe to re-invent itself’ (and then they do not invite 21 countries to talks on Europe’s future – G.K).

    Die Zeit: Europe was given a chance ‘to free itself from paralysis’.

    Deutsche Welle: Germany will have to ‘assume the mantle of a reluctant leader in Europe’.

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