June 23, 2016

Whatever happens tomorrow, Europe will never be quite the same again

Posted in Irish Independent · 210 comments ·
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This EU referendum has divided Britain like no other political event in my lifetime. The campaign has been so violent, forces have been unleashed by both sides that might prove impossible to control and the very existence of the United Kingdom is now unsure. Even if ‘Remain’ wins, as the latest polls suggest, the victory will prove to be pyrrhic at best, because it is highly likely that a narrow victory for ‘Remain’ will only be secured by a strange alliance of cosmopolitan London together with Irish, Scottish and Welsh nationalists who ultimately want to break free from London’s orbit.

The defeated English nationalists, emboldened by their last few months’ performances, will without doubt agitate for a separate English Parliament in the event of them losing. They will be sore and will point at non-English forces in the City-state that is London and in the regions. There could be a new constitutional settlement in the UK.

If it is a vote to ‘Leave’, then the Scottish Nationalists will demand another referendum, which will seek to take them out of a non-European Britain. If they win this, the entire UK, as we have known it, is under threat. The question then is what happens to Northern Ireland?

Listening to their fans sing ‘God Save the Queen’ in France is a bit unnerving for Southerners who may have hoped that the football team, like the 1982 Northern Irish version, might in some way be supported by both sides. I can’t remember whether the 1982 fans roared ‘God Save the Queen’ in a team captained by Martin O’Neill, did they? I can’t imagine O Neill, Pat Jennings, Gerry Armstrong or Pat Rice standing rigid for that particular tune. In fact, why does Northern Ireland sing what is the English national anthem, when Welsh fans or Scottish fans would never dream of it? But that’s Northern Ireland for you – or at least one part of it. Critically, in the event of the Union becoming a loosened affair, the future of Northern Ireland comes back into the picture because an English parliament, running parallel with Westminster, with its own budget and taxation powers, might not be so keen to cough up £7bn for Northern Ireland indefinitely. Why would they pay the dole of people who voted against them in this divisive referendum? At least that’s how many in England might see it.

The truth about all this political and economic speculation is that no one really knows what’s going to happen next. But things won’t simply settle back to business as usual. The English won’t just all go off on their summer holidays to France and forget it all happened. This is the end of something and the beginning of something else.

And Ireland is not immune.

The reality is Ireland has not become fundamentally more European since 1973. We have remained part of the Anglo-American economic world. The US is our biggest trading partner, followed by the UK. When our people look for work, they go to London not Leipzig; we support English football teams; we watch the BBC, English soaps and listen to English music. It’s not that our own culture is subservient but we are intertwined, economically, socially and ultimately politically with the UK. In many ways, Ireland’s European dreams are tempered by the economic and social reality of geography and history. I like to look at Ireland’s relationship with the EU and the UK as a jockey riding two horses. Ireland is the jockey and the two horses are the UK and the EU. When the two horses are broadly moving in tandem, the jockey’s position is tolerable. But when the horses start moving off in opposite directions (as they are now), the jockey’s position becomes extremely uncomfortable.

As for the EU, what is likely to happen now? The EU is a broadly positive but deeply flawed superstructure. It is a status quo cemented together by central fudge whereby a strong Germany pretends to be less powerful than it is because she is afraid of herself and a weak France is indulged as powerful because she is afraid of reality.

In terms of economic growth and the weakest link in the chain, the new Greece if you will, is Italy. Italy is going backwards economically very quickly, its debts are enormous and, more crucially, it is a country at the frontline in the immigration from Africa, which is not going to stop – ever.

Once people start to move in great numbers, once people take risks to go to a country where they feel their children will have a better future, they don’t stop. This is why Ireland was practically denuded of people in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Irish emigration to the US only stopped when the Americans closed their doors in the 1930s.

Only after that did 500,000 people leave Ireland for Britain in the 1950s.

This is why so many of our team who will line out tonight will have English and Scottish accents. Those lads are the demographic echoes of the 1950s and 1960s migrants. Their grandparents didn’t head to Bordeaux or Galicia for work; they went to Birmingham and Glasgow.

The EU has to figure out a way for Germany to escape its own demons when it comes to diplomacy. The reaction to Germany’s handling of the euro crisis and its constant battles with the ECB right up to yesterday, indicate that the Germans are still playing a parochial game, when they should be much more global. Tomorrow we are faced with the fracture of one of two Unions – the UK or the EU.

If the British leave tomorrow, the entire EU will begin to fracture, not because they will be followed out the door in short order by others, but because the very act of leaving is enough to undermine the entire project. If they don’t vote to leave because English nationalism is defeated by cosmopolitan Londoners and nationalists in the provinces, the Union will never be the same again.

Ireland is now caught by the contradictions of our European aspirations and our economic Anglo-American realities. We have to play a clever game, involving non-committal diplomacy, rather than picking unilateral sides. Our model should be the city-state of the medieval world – like Venice or Dubrovnik – playing sides off each other to our advantage, rather than committing ourselves to one side or another.

This is now time for soft power rather than hard decisions.

Are we up to such nimble agility, which identifies our long-term, geo-strategic self-interest? Or will we just go along with whatever plan Brussels hatches after the UK referendum?

The choice is ours.


    • I think you are forgetting something David, in a modern dictatorship posing as a democracy supjects get to vote but Iif the result in not what the dictators want then they are told to vote again and ‘get it right next time’ until the ‘correct’ result is obtained. In the follow up election more fear and threaths are brought into the advertising campaign by the dictatorship. In this election the greatest dictator of the two dictatorships is the remain camp backed by the Eu, Imf and big business. So in the end no matter what way people vote, the Uk will remain in the EU.

  1. CitizenWhy

    Maybe if Ireland changed itself into to a constitutional monarchy and fetched a minor English royal as the new monarch both sides of the border would be satisfied in a United Irish Kingdom. Provided, of course, that Germany gives Ireland permission to so act.

  2. Zenmonk

    You make the links with Britain sound elective David when they clearly are not, they are the hangover from colonial rule which didn’t end, it was merely reformed.

    The EU, as undemocratic and faulted as it is, does offer a way out of the neocolonial loop we live in, but it won’t happen until, in the words of a fellow colonial victim, we free our minds.

    I’m not in agreement with your horse and jockey analogy, we are more the donkey, being driven by one or t’other and sometimes both.

    • I agree with the Donkey theory 100%, Its like the bigger farmer loans the donkey out to the small farmer when he is not using it at weekend, the donkey looses.

    • zapit

      Whatever analogy is correct, a change is needed. David was said there should be a mindset change. And so did you. It’s a pity people don’t realise when their interests are aligned, don’t realise that fundamentally they agree

  3. michaelcoughlan

    Good morning David,

    In the link you will see some large influential bets from wealthy “interests” are skewing the bookie’s odds in favour of remain whereas the vast majority of the bets placed are in fact for leave. As for leaving if sterling weakens and exports rise and should border controls on migrants return, won’t that be great for small and medium enterprises all over britain?

    Imagine a corresponding rise in wages for ordinary punters not having to compete with Igors, Pavel, etc driving wealth distribution in those area of British society ignored by globalisation for decades? The increase in costs for labour will be offset by the increase in local demand from people who have more money in their pockets to spend or should with a drop in the return going to the fuckers at the top in the city.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-22/something-strange-emerges-when-looking-behind-brexit-bookie-odds

  4. redriversix

    We will do whatever Brussels does or tells us to do.

    Your article implies their are some independent thinkers in Government.People who have debates on what is best for our Country & have the power to make change.

    By this stage you should know better.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “By this stage you should know better.”

      How true.

    • michaelcoughlan

      “We will do whatever Brussels does or tells us to do”

      Yes but before that we will do what our mammies tell us “Get yourself a safe state job” the dependency culture being inbred into us from day one.

    • Deco

      Good point redriver.

      Kenny even made a jackass of himself for the same of his controllers. The intervention of somebody who searched half a dozen quangos for a handy number for his wife’s cousin, is a signal to the Irish in Britain, of why they had to leave Ireland.

      And now, for entertainment, he is telling them to not “leave”.

      Does he know that he has the opposite effect, intended ?

      • Even though Remain have won, I think Ireland Inc will come to regret it’s Pravda-like incantations to the Irish In Britain when the EU/Euro behemoth lurches into it’s next existential crisis:

        “Irish in Britain should vote against EU and an undemocratic superstate”

        “Ireland ended up a de facto vassal state of the troika”

        this is a question where we need to look decades ahead.

        “I hope when my kids come of age, they will be voting in a truly democratic country, in a more democratic Europe of prosperous, peaceful and co-operative independent nation states. Voting leave seems the best way to achieve that ideal.”

        http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/Irish-in-Britain-should-vote-against-EU-and-an-undemocratic-superstate.html

        • michaelcoughlan

          “Even though Remain have won”

          How do you know?

          • Psephology! If Remain haven’t won then the entire Polling universe will be shaken to it’s core. I called it for Remain 2 days ago & see nothing to suggest otherwise. I’m just waiting to see if there’s a margin for Remain such that Cameron can say it’s ‘conclusive’. Because UKIP will accept that just as easily as the SNP have done…LOL!

            The referendum was a chance for the UK to lead the way. If they’ve chosen not to, then it comes down to England. If they too have chosen to join the EU in perpetuity, they vanish into the same abyss as the Irish: until the final crisis.

            The EU is the Titanic. The Euro is the iceberg. The collision impact has already happened. Whether it’s lifeboats/rats off a sinking ship, the Brits have been given a choice. Next will be the French once Schauble has dealt with Greece.

            The EU was a wonderful dream. Over a few centuries it could have worked but maniacs thought they could force it in 60 years.

            No matter. I’m a global citizen. There is life beyond being English, Irish, British and European.

          • michaelcoughlan

            “the entire polling universe will be shaken to it’s core”

            Touche.

            For your own sake try and differentiate better between propaganda and what the people are actually thinking and feeling.

            Michael.

          • ‘For your own sake try and differentiate better between propaganda and what the people are actually thinking and feeling.
            Michael.’

            You do realise that it’s both Psephology and Statistical Economic Models that have gone up in smoke? ‘rational behaviour’. LOL! Actually, the vote is within margin of error.

            Good luck with forecasting macroeconomic and geopolitical outcomes by discerning ‘what the people are thinking and feeling’ without using data. Persumably you usea crystal ball. It’s about as effective as the Economic experts.

            I’m looking at my portfolio and it’s all as it should be. I’ve been hedged for this event since it was announced. Getting some seriously crazy feedback from folk about how to escape Brexitaggedon.

            Looking forward to George Osborne’s resignation speech. Will the little Bullingdon Boy keep his stiff upper lip or will he blub like his bitch boss, Cameron.

            Do NOT miss Tony Blair interviews! His entire world has collapsed and the Chilcot report hasn’t even been made public.

            Oh my! To be alive on #Independence Day !

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi Andrew.

            I apologise if you thought I was trying to be a smart arse. I wasn’t. I just don’t believe any offical on anything anymore.

            As for hedge funds as far as I know sooner they all fail or revert to the mean. Better to do something really valuable for society No?

            “Persumably you use a crystal ball. It’s about as effective as the Economic experts”

            I didn’t make a prediction as It was too close but I did feel they would leave.

            regards,

            Michael.

    • CitizenWhy

      True. Ireland always been a colony, and is acculturated to act liek one. Since the formal break with the UK, a colony of the Catholic church. Now a colony of Germany and the EU.

      • Deco

        The real occupying force is a domestic (often entirely power driven) element that loves power over the rest of us.

        These arrangements have benefits and costs. Ultimately, we need to get free of the need for having such arrangements, and instead move in the direction of governance based on responsibility, rather than simply governane based on obedience to dictats from another power centre, and hard sell from the lackeys in the racket.

    • red bull

      Exactly, redriversix. I think David knows as well (or better) than anyone that there isn’t an independent brain cell left in government or the senior civil service in Ireland. Anyone with any kind of independent or progressive thought has long ago left these groups in frustration and probably left the country as well.
      Government and civil service will do exactly what is dictated to them from Brussels and Berlin (as they always do). Never mind about the interests of the Irish people.

  5. redriversix

    Morning Micheal

    Hope everything is wonderful in your world today ?

    • michaelcoughlan

      Great to hear from you rr6.

      I am just goofing off. I decided to take a leaf out of your book and pull back from the site.

      The following graph for me says it all Barry;

      http://emn.ie/emn/statistics

      Since 2011 the level of Emigration out of Ireland is holding steady above 75k PA with a slight drop off recently.

      The graph also clearly shows since 2011 a year on year increase of people immigrating in here to work.

      Analysis would suggest that the Irish are leaving to get better paid jobs in Canada, the US and Australia and the increase in jobs here are being taken up by the young foreigners who don’t mind working in all the zero hour min wage mcjobs on offer from Michael O’Leary et al.

      The thought occurred to me when thinking about how the Irish treat their own kids and those of foreigners so disgracefully do we really know what love is;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raNGeq3_DtM

  6. I called it for #Remain by a narrow margin 2 days ago once I’d analysed the #DianaRedux reaction to the tragic political assassination of Jo Cox. However, “the Mob is fickle” & I expect total mayhem once the hagiography project collapses.

    “The former aid worker’s death at the hands of a 52-year-old man with proven far-right sympathies has resulted in a national outpouring of grief that recalls that which followed the death of Princess Diana in 1997.”

    http://www.thehindu.com/…/the-legacy…/article8756690.ece

  7. Deco

    Well, my apologies to the Brits.

    From memory, I cannot ever remember any British pop stars telling us how to decide how we should be ruled. And in particular, I do not remember any hypocritical tax dodging pop stars who hang around with rich people, and who serve as their PR provider, going around telling people how to vote.

    Bono, stop making a twat of yourself. If The Netherlands holds a referendum, and decides to stop throing money at Phil Hogan and his equivalents, will Bono move his tax residency back to Ireland ?

    At this point in time, the intervention of somebody so persistenly hypocritical is as useful as a hole in the head to the yes side.

  8. #Remain wins. The plebiscite battle has been ‘lost’ but the war has already been won. The cognitive dissonance of trying to reconcile a Tory hegemony achieved via a minority under FPTP (First Past The Post] in a domestic election with the disenfranchisement of 50% of the population via this referendum will cause both Labour and Tory Establishments to implode. Or explode. And that is to be celebrated. The UK Parliament is now just an historical tourist theme-park attraction and will remain so unless and until Sovereignty is restored. Does anyone seriously think that the EUUKist MPs would have acted on a win for #Brexit? Does anyone seriously doubt that they wouldn’t have insisted on a re-vote at the behest of their EU puppet masters, just as was enforced on the Irish when the peasants dared to vote down the Lisbon Treaty?

    Prepare for the rise of an English Independence Party once the data is crunched and the expediency of the SNP is exposed. Do not presume it will be racist or xenophobic. Who are the real racists? Those who want the UK to have it’s own immigration policy that welcomes a global diaspora? Or those who insist that only those refugees with resources to pay human traffickers walk a 1000 miles across Fortress Europe risking life and limb so they can find sanctuary? It’s time to name the real EUracist agenda. It’s a new colonialist adventure, a gang of warlord nations who used to act alone but now are a gang, espousing Enlightenment values whilst destroying them. Competing with similar gangs called Pax Americana & The Middle Kingdo. Oceania, Eurasia & EastasiaDoublespeak. Doublethink. ThoughCrime. How long before people like me are arrested and put on trial for Europhobic hate-speech?

    Can anyone explain how a resurgence of Fascism within Europe could be fought within a legally unified European Union? Oceania, Eurasia & Eastasia? Pass. The utopian fantasy of the EU has collapsed, now coercion is the only policy tool left now.

    I do not accept that the EU is capable of demographic reform, just as I don’t accept the Chinese Communist Party can be ‘reformed’. Both will share the same fate as the USSR elite.

    Schabule is spinning Sun Tzu, pretending to have a *lightbulb* moment but here’s what he’s planning. The creation of Fortress Euro within Fortress Europe via Grexit. In fact he plans Grexpulsion.

    “EU on slippery slope to destruction-can’t continue in current form-whether Britain decides to leave or not tomorrow.”

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/682442/EU-German-finance-minister-Brussels-change

  9. Deco

    Scotland will not opt for independence at 50 USD per barrel of oil, if they already rejected the idea at 90 USD per barrel of oil.

    Since the previous referendum, the SNP have borrowed like crazy to sustain the illusion that they are the source of all plenty. This is plain absurd.

    The irony of the SNP is that they SNP will make sure that Scotland is incapable of functioning as an independent concern. A bit like FF under Bertie Ahern. The ultimate end will be serious financial problems, and loads of outlandish promises, and uncosted splurge along the way.

    Wales is not seeking independence. And may well continue as is.

    NI is a different matter. NI needs devolution, to increase the potential towards self-responsibility. And that is the path that everybody in Dublin 2 and Westminster agrees upon, as a gradual solution. The only problem was that the locals in NI could never stop bickering to make it work.

    The East of Ireland cannot afford to fund the bank bailouts, the quango institutional state complex, low taxes for mncs, endless waste, regional transfers, property bottlenecking, Patrick Neary’s pension, FAS/Solas, Rehab directors, and all the other commitments of the state complex.

    Adding NI to the list is simply going to break the Irish state. And bear in mind that we are still borrowing like crazy to sustain the state system here.

    The same people that are opposed to Brexit in the RoI are beneficiaries of a ponzi scheme that is running out of stretching space. And that means that they are telling NI to effectively FO back to Britain for money.

    To be honest, adding the 6 to the 26 is a complete non-runner, unless the state burns the bondholders, and throws 200 quangoes onto the fire, at the same time.

    And that is not going to happen. More specifically, the EU will not want it to happen, because the EU favours a power statem with respect to the people, and a weak state in comaprison to Brussels.

    So, yes, David, the EU will never be the same regardless of the result. But, I still expect a few more cathastophes from those in charge.

    Turkey under Erdogan has become a very repressive state. But he has been bailed out by Merkel several times over, in a way that must cause envy in Athens.

    Spain is caught up in a scandal just before an election that will see the centre right revealed as corrupt. And that will cause serious problems for Brussels, and even more concern in Frankfurt.

    And Italy is at stretching point.

    A lot of bad news about the EU has been held back for this referendum.

    Even if the decision is remain, there will be serious problems in the months ahead. More specifically, EU decision making is still proving inadequate at solving problems, and masterful at growing them out of control. The same decision makers are still in control.

    In that context, the sensible, and wise choice for Britain would be to get off the Titanic, before Merkel/Juncker steers the ship for another iceberg. Because, as of late, they seem to be looking for iceberg’s to steer into.

    • At the same time as the EU is attacking the basis and legitimacy of the Nation State Historical Project, we have various clowns using historical Victim Scripts to claim special status and plead for resources because they’re in some historical costume-drama called ‘Scotland’, for example. In the EU Leviathan their fate is oblivion.

      What they fail to realise is that economics trumps sentimentality. The economies of Yorkshire and Mercia (East & West Midlands) do not need to be part of ‘England’, never mind ‘The United Kingdom’. Just as the international city-state of Londinium does not need to be part of ‘England’. They choose to be part of ‘England’and the ‘United Kingdom’ Let’s see if the vote count tonight shows they choose to be part of the EU…..

      Cameron has opened Pandora’s box and now it can never be closed.

      Last year & this I travelled widely after not having left these Isles of Wonder for a decade. It was a necessary nightmare to consolidate my thinking & I see no need to ever travel again. I found no evidence that Iceland isn’t viable as an economic entity with a population the same size as Coventry. Santorini is too small but the Cyclades and Crete could secede from Greece. Etc. No Nation State ‘needs’ the EU. But the EU needs to feed it’s gaping maw with more and more Nation States to justify it’s absurd utopian nonsenses.

      The Nation State was an attempt to reign in the power of The Crown [which is simply the inexorable effect of Capital Formation and it's hereditary transmission] Magna Carta was the response then, a new Magna Carta moment is on the event horizon and, once again, it will arise within the Shires of England. Those who simplistically think that the Nation State Project is an historical anachronism have not considered the dangers of supra-national projects like the EU Leviathan and it’s demonic offspring: The Euro.

      Enough! Goodbye everyone. And good luck.

    • 06paul26

      Westminster, with its own budget and taxation powers, might not be so keen to cough up £7bn for Northern Ireland indefinitely.

      UK taxes raised 2014/15 £610 Billion, NI 3% of population ,
      therefore £ 18.3 Billion.

      English deep state won’t allow the figure to get out and Free Staters swallow it just like the 30 pieces of silver they took when the agreed to drop the Boundary Commission .

  10. “Ireland is now caught by the contradictions of our European aspirations and our economic Anglo-American realities. We have to play a clever game, involving non-committal diplomacy, rather than picking unilateral sides. Our model should be the city-state of the medieval world – like Venice or Dubrovnik – playing sides off each other to our advantage, rather than committing ourselves to one side or another.
    This is now time for soft power rather than hard decisions.” David McWilliams.

    Did Venice or Dubrovnik use the Euro? Having surrendered it’s Sovereignty by joining the Euro, all that Ireland has left is ‘soft power’. You need both. Iron fist/velvet glove. Ask Wolfgang Schauble.

  11. “The mob is fickle!” I won’t be taking part in the Bread’n'Circus #Brexit #remain Aftermath as it too will be carefully scripted by elites. I will now retire back to an a quiet life of misanthropic nihilism here in The Shire having briefly reactivated ‘AndrewGMooney’so that I leave this data trail to my children who will have to live through the consequences of the EU unravelling. Your Dad fought the fascists his whole life. And it was the best possible life despite all that we endured as a family.

    For anyone who is seriously interested in why the English cannot accept the EU/Euro projects, here’s a useful summary:

    “Were Britain to leave the EU on the basis of English votes alone, Scotland would certainly demand a fresh ballot on independence. Conversely, if Britain voted to remain, with Scottish votes making the difference, that could boost English nationalism and Ukip, and even demands to dump Scotland from the UK so as to preserve the sovereignty of the kingdom, or at least of England. In these circumstances, a “central secession” through a unilateral English declaration of independence from Europe and the UK would become a possibility. “

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/07/why-we-need-british-europe-not-european-britain

    “If Libery means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear” -George Orwell

  12. Daithi7

    ‘This EU referendum has divided Britain like no other political event in my lifetime. ‘

    ehh Poll Tax? Miners Strikes? Soccer Hooliganism/Tragedies? H Block?

    Sorry I like the author so I don’t like disagreeing with him but this is sensationalist nonsense.

    Brexit…. snore ……

    Look the British people are ultimately a very sensible, law abiding , good lot.

    They are also our largest trading partner. Leaving the EU would be a
    slow tragedy for them, they appear to have seen this thankfull and today they will vote to stay in the EU. And to continue to bring their dynamism, liberalism and economic power into play within the EU. We are all better off for this. The UK, The EU and Ireland.

    Let’s leave it at that shall we? and move onwards and upwards from here in the enjoying the continued peace and prosperity that the EU with the UK, France, Germany , Italy and of course little old Ireland has brought us over 40+ years in a formal body and effectively since the end of the 2nd world war. Long may it continue!!!

    • Thanks for this. It tells what the issue is. It is a Battle for world dominion by the elites.
      i first became aware of this but not the methodologies in the early 1970′s.
      I flew from BC back to England to visit family.
      In BC we had a teacher strike. There were issues declaimed and strident positions taken. Imagine my surprise when stepping of the plane in London I was met with another teachers strike. What astounded me was that in every case the issues and Rhetoric were almost identical.

      It was then I realised that local issues were not local but rigged by internationalists.

      Continued membership in the EU will result in destroyed communities and destroyed countries in favour of homogenized humanity controlled and regulated by anonymous bureaucrats. It will be the daily life in a zoo or circus for the majority except for the ring master, the puppet master.

      • michaelcoughlan

        “Continued membership in the EU will result in destroyed communities”

        Good man Tony. Never were truer words spoken.

  13. Truthist

    If the overall vote is shown to be that the UK wishes to REMAIN in E.U. ;
    ==> “RIGGED” Voting “in favour of remaining” SUCCEEDED in their rigging task, & …. ; See the following ;

    If the overall vote is shown to be that the UK wishes to EXIT in EU ;
    ==> the Institutional State of UK [ I.S.U.K. ] decided that EXIT from E.U. WINS DESPITE that “RIGGED” Voting “in favour of remaining” SUCCEEDED in their rigging task, & I.S.U.K. having the ultimate power to decide the verdict regardless of how the voting transpired & I.S.U.K. really wanting to declare that REMAIN in E.U. WINS.

    Most of I.S.U.K. — elected Politicians, Corporate U.K., F.I.R.E. [ Finance ( Banksters ), Insurance, Real Estate ] Sector, Quangos [ Yes, U.K. has them also ; Not just "Sham" Republic of Ireland does ], the Professional Class, rich Self-Employers, rich Employees of Private Sector, Union Leadership, False Opposition of Left, Intellectual Class, Media, Secret Service [ MI5, & M16 ], Mid-High Civil Serpents, the Gay Mafia, the Military, the Freemasons, Common Purpose organisation [ They in Irish State too ; Sinister ], The Trilateral Commission [ Sir Peter Sutherland / Suds & co. ], & British Royal Family + their relations, & the E.U. itself, inter alia — WANT THE U.K. TO REMAIN IN E.U..
    So, it will be rigged for REMAIN side to win anyway ;

    But, the Hidden State then will have to feel the mood of the people for to decide which side is declared the winner.
    If the mood of the people is beyond a critical mass of anger against the declaration of a Remain verdict ;
    ==> I.S.U.K. will declare that EXIT side WINS.

    I think that the I.S.U.K.’s False Flag assassination of female M.P. Cox that is attributed to Exit Activist solely [ NO Mind-programming, NO Doppleganger, etc. "Ahem, Ahem, ... Ahem, Ahem !" ] may have manipulated the fickle of populace enough that I.S.U.K. can try it on to declare that REMAIN WINS.

    Please, contemplate the fact that Institutional State of Irish State [ I.S.I.S. ] since the 1990′s often is a corrupting tutor to enthusiastic student I.S.U.K..
    for how to control the populace.

    • Daithi7

      keep the tin foil hat on while popping those tablets dude.

      ISIS is something else entirely. You know that, I know that, so stop trying to be ‘clever’.

      • Truthist

        The ISIS that u prefer to refer to is just a false name for mercenaries & special forces for recent proxy army of that special little so-called democracy in the Middle East doing genocide for fun & seeking to expand its borders from the Euphrates to the Nile.

        The I.S.I.S. that I refer to is an earlier entity ;
        vis.
        Institutional State of the Irish State.

        And, the Institutional State of the Irish State is a terrorist organisation ;
        They sure as hell are terrorizing mainly decent very poor Irish citizens over their lifetime.

        What says u, Daith7, anyway about :

        “Freemasonry” power in Irish State ?

        “Common Purpose” power in Irish State ?

        The British blogs are very to the front truth-telling about these organisations corrupting power in their society ?

        e.g.

        http://www.chrisspivey.org

        http://www.aanirfan.blogspot.com

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Hi Truthist, I hope you are doing well.

          You asked me a question regarding dying intestate and consensus regarding the estate.

          You wrote,

          “By the way, is it a fact per Intestate [ No Will existing ] situation that the direct Heirs / Beneficiaries cannot receive any of the Estate UNLESS there is “Consensus” as to “the amounts given to each & all” by all the Heirs / Beneficiaries ? i.e. There must be Consensus ? I have tried in vain to get any information on this question when I searched the internet.”

          Bad news first – you will not get much information on the internet unless you know what to look for, as lots of the Irish law is not indexed (which gives jobs to solicitors) and lots of it is there, but only if it is 2 decades old (that’s the limitation of the whole internet – it does not have lots of primary sources older that, say, 30 years).

          Also, you do not give lots of details regarding the situation of the estate in question and the solicitors would go mad if you do not provide them with any specifics, but on the other hand I won’t have time to analyse your case even if you gave me more specific details (all I can do is to contact you with solicitors specialising in it) and, to cap it all, I am not in a position to give a legal advice on the blog, in between a quick cuppa and getting a bus.

          So this is NOT a legal advice.

          So… what you need to read, if you want to be able to stand up to tricks the other party/ies may use, and I am sorry to say that as I know you would love to hear a quick Yes or Nay, is this book by Mr Eamonn Mongey:

          https://www.bookdepository.com/Probate-Practice-Nutshell-Eamonn-G-Mongey/9780953188024

          If you think the money is worth it, please read it.

          A FEW REMARKS YOU MIGHT FIND HELPFUL IN YOUR SITUATION – NOT A LEGAL ADVICE

          Where there is no Will, it is known as a Grant of Administration Intestate. UNTIL the Grant of Representation is issued from the Probate Office, the personal representatives are generally unable to deal with the assets owned by the deceased person.

          The distribution of an intestate estate where the intestate dies after 1 January 1967 is governed by Part VI of the Succession Act (the relevant sections are 66-75).

          Section 66
          This is an introductory section.

          Section 67(1) states
          Spouse and no issue: surviving spouse takes all.

          Section 67(2) states

          Spouse and issue: two thirds to surviving spouse; one third equally among children, with issue of predeceased child taking per stirpes. Issue and no spouse: children take equally, with issue of predeceased child taking per stirpes.

          Section 69(1) provides that

          if a person dies without spouse or issue or parent, all brothers and sisters take equally and the children of a predeceased brother or sister take per stirpes.

          Section 69(2) provides that

          if an intestate dies leaving neither spouse nor issue nor parent nor brother and sister, all nephews and nieces take equally.

          I suppose your situation might be (you would need to clarify that with a solicitor) that no brother and sister survived – then nephews and nieces become entitled to equal shares per capita and not per stirpes.

          If however the intestate is not survived by a spouse, issue, parents, brother, sister, nephew or niece his/her estate will be distributed among his/her next of kin, Section 70 (Shares of next-of-kin) will apply.

          Section 70(1) provides that

          if the intestate is not survived by a spouse, issue, parents, brother, sister, nephew or niece his/her estate will be distributed among his/her next of kin.

          Section 70(2) provides that

          lineal descent is preferred to collateral succession with one exception. The exception is made for representation in the case of children of brothers and sisters of an intestate where any other brother or sister survives.

          Section 71 deals with

          the ascertainment of next-of-kin. The degrees of blood relationship are ascertained by counting upwards to the nearest common ancestor and then downwards from that ancestor to the relative.

          Section 73 of the Succession Act

          deals with the State as ultimate intestate successor. While the State is the ultimate intestate successor, the Minister for Finance under section 73(2) has a right to waiving wholly or in part in favour of such person and upon such terms, as he shall think fit, having regards to all the circumstances of the case.

          Section 98 of the Succession Act provides

          an exception to the doctrine of lapse for wills. In effect it provides that if a child of a testator dies before the testator, under the purposes of the Succession Act they are deemed to have died immediately after the testator thus preserving the share for the child’s estate.

          Now, there is a few things you or your relatives would need to do. Some, though not all of them, are

          -Go through the deceased’s papers (Bank/Building Society books/statements/insurance
          policies/saving certificates/shares/stocks/title deeds and any other papers which will help to identify the assets and liabilities of the estate), if you have access to it.

          -The insurance cover on property or other valuable assets should be checked.
          -Valuations must be obtained setting out the value of all the assets and liabilities of the estate at the date of death.

          -It should be ascertained whether or not the deceased availed of the Fair Deal Scheme under the Nursing Home Support Scheme Act 2009.

          -Tax liabilities must be dealt with; fill out the Inland Revenue Affidavit (CA24), a form which lists the value of the assets and liabilities of the deceased as at the date of death; included in the form are details of beneficiaries who inherit over €20,000p; the Inland Revenue Affidavit is submitted directly to the Probate Office and the Revenue are then sent the form by the Probate Office.

          -Whether the beneficiaries have received previous gifts/inheritances (very important in family law disputes! – this includes financing college). If so, full details will be required (this is necessary for tax purposes).

          That’s all I can tell you, I hope you’ll understand I cannot deal with specifics.

          • Truthist

            Much thanks Grzegorz,

            I have done as much research as possible on internet as to Intestate with Issue [ Spouse ; Alive] & Children [ e.g. "me" ] ;
            Apologies for not supplying that the above elaboration.
            The fruits of my exhaustive attest to ur insight of it ;
            What is offered is a scantILy dressed & evasive & tautologous bony old maid that is at best claiming to be just under 50 years old.
            Nearly 6 months gone now since death of parent ;
            No return contact from family or representatives of estate or authorities since approx 4 months ;
            And, any contact prior was only because of my pro-active efforts to get answers to questions I also put.
            Much “funny” stuff at play by other parties ;
            I just tell the truth ;
            And, no games from me.
            That is my way ;

            I have no clue as to anything that is happening.
            I would think that I should know who a prospective representative of estate is.
            But, I know nothing.

            My question as to there being legal necessity for there to be CONSENSUS among the heirs before the estate can be distributed is an altogether unspoken topic even for other jurisdictions when I search on internet.
            It was a continental European source who told me about “Consensus” being a pre-condition in many continental E.U. jurisdictions.

            I wonder also about the following topics :

            1.
            Home of deceased I expect was jointly owned by surviving spouse.
            I gather that surviving spouse obtains the home immediately after death of deceased.

            Will surviving spouse have to pay monies to government upon taking full title to home.

            2.
            Other house I expect is jointly-owned also.
            I wonder is surving spouse not allowed to take full title of more than 1 “jointly owned” house [ other than jointly-owned home ] immediately ? ;
            i.e.
            2.1
            Extra house[s] must be entered into the estate for calculation ?
            2.2
            Extra house[s] is available to surviving spouse on priority basis if this spouse pays a 50 % valuation of it ?

            3.
            Ltd. Co.
            Operated by the deceased

            I expect that surviving spouse is share-holder & director & / or secretary of the Ltd. Co..
            I wonder :

            3.1
            Does Ltd. Co. now become part of the Estate ?
            If “Yes” ;
            3.1.1
            Does all of Ltd. Co. become part of the Estate ?

            Anyway, this estate is in the makings of becoming a very sinister story.
            What else to expect form “The Land of Raints & Rholars” ?

            I

  14. sravrannies

    Thanks to all for the marvellously entertaining and educational posts over the years – I am truly humbled by some of your knowledge, passion and ability to articulate.

    You have certainly opened my eyes to many things and/or pointed me in the right direction to discover more. I live in N.I. and I will be voting Leave, only considering Remain very briefly.[My friends & family think I'm f...ing mad] I was persuaded by some of your writings and by my own research. I often suspected as Paranoia claims of the world being run by elites, market manipulation and an ‘indifference’ by those who run Europe to the plight of its citizens. But, these things are true and I continue to read and learn that it is a greedy and mercenary world we live in.

    I came across one interesting quote of Jean Monnet, considered the founding father of the European project [some believe he was supported by the CIA]. His solution to avoid a repeat of previous wars – He wrote:

    “Europe’s nations should be guided towards the Super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

    I rest my case.

    Read more here
    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-european-unions-dark-secret-it-was-founded-in-deception-with-an-anti-democratic-design/

    • Truthist

      Cheers sravrannies

      Of course there is a “Boss of Bosses” Truth that we dare not speak about ;
      But, we can hint & suggest in riddles.
      Agents of the Boss of Bosses were very instrumental in what happened between the 2 main sides up in the North East of our country ;
      Nationalist side will forever have to protect its Eyes & Teeth for having given support to those assailed between the 2 lines of that flag.
      Yet, the funny thing is that all of us — those who never left Hibernia / Scotia [ Major ] & those who left Hibernia / Scotia [ Major ] & returned from Alba / Scotia Minor with new religions — on the island are the originals of who were between the 2 lines.

      Anyways, … that support given is recent motivation for Irish State’s general populace to be hit with spurious & overwhelming debt

      Here are more important founders of E.U. Super-State project :

      Alexandre Kojève

      Sorry in advance for giving Wikipedia.com link [ compromised site for truth about many topics that have political, or cultural, or moral / religious relevance ]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Koj%C3%A8ve

      He looks like some Dr. Strangeglove contender in the photo given.

      Richard Coudenhove Kalergi

      Google.com search terms ;

      Kallergi AND his ideas are the guiding principles of the European Union

      https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=yQ1sV8HGA4rxvATgpZ_gCg&fg=1#q=Kallergi+and+his+ideas+are+the+guiding+principles+of+the+European+Union

    • Truthist

      Read ur Link ;
      I will be bookmarking it.

      Interesting.

      But, I disagree that Monet just some innocent idealist wanting to save Europe from internal wars ;
      Nay, he had to have been as sinister as the rest of the “noble” founding fathers of E.U. project.

      The quoted Frederick Forsyth is someone of high interest ;
      There are those who hold that he is a super spook.
      8-)
      And, he has a keen interest in the affairs of Ireland.

      Aanirfan has interesting things to say about Frederick Forsyth ;
      I trust u are tempted to insert the bauld Frederick Forsyth into aanirfan.blogspot.com.

      • sravrannies

        I must admit I don’t know too much about the man – will have to remedy that. Have posted on blog.

        Peter

        Brought my 8 yr old daughter with me to vote – she nearly ticked the “Remain” box – “that’s what Mummy did – she said it would be cheaper” – traitor!

        • Truthist

          At least, regardless of “remain” or “exit”, u have a smart kid there Peter.
          And, she is doing the Frederick Forsyth role for Dad.

          Folks who reject the E.U. are ,knowingingly or not, actually helping all the peoples of Europe.
          Adios E.U. !

          Viva the independent & free nation states of Europe !

          Then, Europe can be strong & creative & decent ;
          Pre-condition, that the various leaderships of each nation have the correct attitude.

        • McCawber

          Getting your daughter to rat out another woman is awesome.
          Getting her to rat out her mom is unbelievable.

    • Great result.52% Brexit
      The lack of Democracy for Europe was planned and executed. Now Britain must exit and restore democracy.

      “Forsyth then continues with a bunch of typically British issues, and ends with:

      [..] You have repeatedly been told this issue is all about economics. That is the conman’s traditional distraction. This issue is about our governmental system, parliamentary. Democracy versus non-elective bureaucracy utterly dedicated to the eventual Superstate.

      Our democracy was not presented last week on a plate. It took centuries of struggle to create and from 1940 to 1945 terrible sacrifices to defend and preserve.

      It was bequeathed to us by giants, it has been signed away by midgets.

      Now we have a chance, one last, foolishly offered chance to tell those fat cats who so look down upon the rest of us: yes, there will be some costs – but we want it back.”

  15. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    A LOOPHOLE IN THE LISBON TREATY THAT WENT UNNOTICED ON BOTH SIDES

    I have noticed it while reading the Treaty and I wonder if Mr Cameron is aware of it.

    But before I go into that, I would like to point out that last year I (along with some others) predicted here on this blog the Remain vote to prevail and I stick to my last year prediction. I said that if the push comes to shove, they will rig the referendum (i.e. like they did in Austria with postal votes – they might use Commonwealth votes for that).

    Now, as to the said loophole. If we look at the article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, supposing they negotiate an agreement with the EU on what terms to leave, and UKiP is not satisfied with it, so they call for the referendum whether the Brits agree on those terms. Supposing the referendum returns “No, we do not agree”. It might be as well that this would stop all that 2 years negotiating-leaving period, or postpone it until we are all dead. Remember that Poland has already used that with the Euro currency – they said they will get rid of zloty, but they never said when (i.e., maybe in the year 3,000 AD).

    The really interesting question is not whether Britain will remain, but what dynamic we will end up with in Europe/Britain if the vote is very close to 50-50 and there are accusations of votes rigging. How will Britain deal with that? Will that tear the Tories apart? Will UKiP ever be so strong to replace them (in a situation where they would show they cannot deliver after the lost referendum)?

    BREXIT AND YUMMY SAUSAGES

    As the Brexit referendum is taking place over the Irish Sea, we hear lots of arguments from the Leave camp. I agree with many of them (i.e., that the EU laws should be simplified – do we really need 172 different EU laws for mirrors?). One of their arguments though does not stand to detailed scrutiny: that Brexit would not affect the Irish agriculture because the sovereign UK will be able to reopen agricultural concessions to Ireland.

    The problem I can see with that argument is that following the entry into force of the 1994 WTO Agreement on Agriculture, this would not be allowed under WTO non-discrimination rules. Supposing though that the UK will be able to work out a zero-rate tariff agreement with the whole of the EU – would that not be good for the UK?

    It might – assuming that the UK (free from CAP and with deregulated agriculture market) chooses to open itself to food imports from the rest of the world (now subject to EU’s Common External Tariff), which would put downward pressure on their food prices. However, for Irish food exports – and the UK accounts for 40% of Irish agricultural exports, including almost 100% of mushroom exports – and for Irish consumers this would be bad news, because it would increase competition on the UK food market thus putting downward price pressure on Irish suppliers, while putting upward price pressure on food imports from the UK (as trade costs will be higher due to ever increasing separation of the EU/UK standards).

  16. SLICKMICK

    Isle of Man and channel Islands are not part of uk or Eu. Both have two per cent unemployment.little migration.

  17. Deco

    Well, it looks like it is going to be close.

    David’s prediction about the DUP falling asunder has not materialized.

    But SF has given every critic in the Dublin media an armalite to shoot at SF, metaphorically speaking. Does SF have a plan for paying for reunification that squares with all the free stuff that they have promised the voters in West Dublin ?

    Another interesting aspect – Wales. Plaid Cymbi were walking around like as if they s[poke for Wales. Actually they don’t. And their rather daft leader will now be facing difficult questions.

    Scotland voted as predicted. Now Scotland can get close to Germany and help pay for Greece, and an increasingly problematic Spain where Merkel’s centre right allies are crumbling in an abuse of state power scandal – in addition to existing corruption scandals (what else ever seems to hit the centre right these days, except corruption scandals).

    Prediction – forget the value of Sterling, the Euro will tumble. It is backed by hot air, and massive bureacracy.

    Throw in the fact that Greece has not been fixed, and Ireland is more indebted than ever, and you get the ingredients of another Euro crisis.

    In fact the mere thought of a Euro crisis is a problem, because it threatens to track record of the EU institutions has been abysmal.

    The Greek working class stood bravely but were beaten. In fact betrayed by the useless centre left in other EU ccountries who readily joined in punishing them. The Irish working class bought into lies from Ireland’s paid up media. And the Spanish working class suffered in silence, and continues to do so.

    But finally, in one country, the working class has stood up to the nonsense factory in Brussels, and let if be known that the current authority model, the deliberate avoidance of consent, and the deliberate shoving through of corporatism, is no longer societally acceptable.

    What is shocking is that it took this long, for the message to be sent.

    • Truthist

      SF are controlled opposition ;

      This is very evident when the media of Irish State in late 1990′s kept talking them up as in line to gain major percentage of the electorate.

      Irish Establishment want to use SF for to control the masses ;
      Residue of fear of SF suits the establishment’s purpose.

      SF are fully immersed in the nefarious Frankfurt School stuff ;
      Chomsky, Adorno, Alinsky et all
      They cannot wait to apply it onto the citizenship.

      SF are Trotskyites / Trots ;
      So, they are really for E.U. project longterm despite what they say & do to the contrary publicly.

      Island was united all its history except since 1921 ;

      Currently, both parts of our country / island are not morally fit nor intellectually honest nor competent enough enough to re-unite.
      SF are contributing to that malaise.

      SF need to cleanse themselves.
      As indeed all the other political parties / gangs of thugs [ FF, FG, Labour, Auntie Austerity Dalliance, etc ... UUP, DUP, PUP, etc [ Some parties are of richer class than others ] in this country / island need to do.

      It is a touch bit unfair on SF that there is no similar media campaign to highlight long history of thuggish actions & corrupt practises by each of all main parties in Ireland.

      • Deco

        Trotsky was a butcher whose barbarity turned the Bosheviks against him, and to Stalin instead.

        It is baffling how many Trots forget the crimes of Trotsky, and the fact that his ambitions were even bloodier and less civilized than Stalin. He was Pol Pot before Pol Pot arrived on the scene.

        • Truthist

          All the Soviets up until Krushcev sic. perhaps — Grzegorz can inform us accurately — were Butchers :
          Leninists
          Bolsheviks
          Mensheviks
          Trotskyists
          Stalinists

          And, the butchery was no unintended consequence ;
          It was their intention from the get-go.
          Lots of rapes followed by murder of course.
          After all, the Russians were considered as only “Cattle” by the Soviets ;
          “Not even worth the Finger-Nail of any person who peeled out from Brooklyn, New York to enact this genocide & slavery”

          And, the bulk of the leadership — some 300 or so — came from Brooklyn.
          They did so on behalf of their masters the Rothchilds ;
          It is all documented with inscrutability, & also is admitted by the scholars from their “kin” ;
          Yagoda was 1 example of a Butcher.

          And, so was Lenin.

          Aside from the false* dialectic game of 1.Capitalists [ Most entrepreneurs only do enterprise from Finance / Borrowed Investment with Interest payable ; Thus, not Capital Monies of actual Investors ; Thus, not actual "Capitalists" ; Really "Financialists" ] Vs Communists & 2. Trots Vs Stalinists, & 3. Democrats Vs Republicans, which is designed from on high to keep us impassioned & worried & distracted [ CONTROLLED ], & that also sucks some people into the Trotsky movements for to satisfy sense of injustice & for some “greed” & / or “bloody goals”, Trotsky is pitched to the masses as supreme “Intellectual” ;
          So, university students who are into worshiping the I.Q. / Brain are prime candidates to be attracted to joining the Trots.

          Important to qualify the argument ;

          There are definitely people who are well intentioned to do something constructive about the injustice of economic conditions that do see some glimmer of utopia in what the Trots are promising.

          Brits spy-masters must have been delighted that so many of the nationalist prisoners in the North-East were studying for Sociology [ laden with Frankfurt School stuff ] degrees from Brit. Open University ;
          Unfortunately, they were denied permission to study pure mathematics, & engineering, & science degrees.
          And, so we have many of the former active service nationalists programmed to think in Frankfurt School scheme of things.
          Some are now the media-pitched “Community Leaders” ;
          Of course, there would be many of Sinn Fein activists who have never been in IRA, & have also been schooled in the Frankfurt School way ;
          Alinsky is a very notable figure to read up on.
          Obama is a disciple of Alinsky Method in Chicago.

          I expect most of leadership of Socialist Party, & Militant Socialist, & Auntie Austerity Dalliance, see themselves as Alinsky when they are on the ground with “the people”

          Here is some of Makow on about Alinsky ;

          Google.com search terms ;

          alinsky AND henry makow

          https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=cr&ei=xC5tV6j6HJWgvQTto4XoBg&fg=1#q=alinsky+AND+henry+makow

          Congratulations anyway Deco on the Brexit result ;
          I perceive that ur many excellent posts on that very issue over the last few years were very instrumental in convincing a great many of the contributors & passive readers & their interlocutors to obtain that crucial Exit the E.U. result for U.K., & the rest of the long suffering E.U. citizens.

          Keep up the good work folks !
          We can win even more.

          *
          I accept that the contest of Capitalists Vs Communists & Republicans Vs Democrats is very real for many of the participants ;
          But, for some of those at the very top of each camp, it is all about CONTROLLING the masses “through’ the dialectic & “after” the dialectic.

  18. SMOKEY

    And the SKY hasnt fallen. David, look at the talking heads today as they back peddle and pretend they too agree with your position. Should be fun. Make Britain Great if its not too Late!

  19. Truthist

    “You know, comrades …
    I consider it completely unimportant who in the party will vote, or how.
    But, what is extraordinarily important is this ;
    who will count the votes, & how !”

    - Josef Stalin,
    quoted in ‘Memoirs of Stalin’s Former Secretary’ (1992), by Boris Bazhanov

  20. Truthist

    Well spotted by Poster to aangirfan.blogspot.com ;

    http://aanirfan.blogspot.com/2015/10/should-uk-leave-eu.html

    Anonymous23 June 2016 at 04:04
    Jo Cox Update – Bent Judge? – Nick Kollerstrom

    Jo Cox ; Nothing Adds Up

    The presiding Judge is the same one who :

    1.
    oversaw the Lee Rigby trial

    2.
    released Lord Janner from facing trial for pedophilia.*

    *Post redacted by Truthist

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8V_xDSN8QU

  21. Gold up 5-13% on the bad news, depending on where one lives.

    • McCawber

      The £ in your pocket is still the same £ it was yesterday
      Except it won’t buy the same amount of gold.
      There won’t be another referendum in GB anytime soon.

      .

      • michaelcoughlan

        Hi,

        “The £ in your pocket is still the same £ it was yesterday”. Not correct.

        The note in your pocket is the same note as yesterday. That is all. It will buy less in imports HOWEVER British EXPORTING should get a massive BOOST and if they restrict the flow of immigration into the UK wages for ordinary workers will rise driving a boom in areas left behind by globalisation.

        Michael.

        • “We have been clear in our thinking on the economic implications of Brexit for some time. The independent report that we commissioned on the subject concluded that Britain’s long-term economic future would be largely unaffected by a decision to leave the European Union. We stand by these conclusions.

          In the longer term, it is my view that the trajectory of the UK economy, and more importantly the world economy, will not be influenced significantly by today’s outcome. ”

          https://woodfordfunds.com/blog/brexit-initial-thoughts/

          • michaelcoughlan

            Many thanks for posting this. It makes a complete mockery of the propaganda of the stay in side doesn’t it?

        • McCawber

          You don’t need to explain that to me but Harold Wilson might have appreciated your input.

  22. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    Great day for the brits isn’t it? Imagine if we weren’t part of the EU Dathi? When the banks collapsed we could have simply wound them up like real capitalists as in the case of Iceland also outside the EU of course.

    Instead we keep zombie banks going and to fund the madness the Irish Gubernment recently sold a 100 year bond;

    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-s-first-100-year-bond-set-to-raise-100m-1.2592250

    To put this in context; if a generation equals 20 years then Irish children, grandchildren, great grand children, great great grandchildren, and great great great grand children, will pay for this one.

    An appalling race of scum the Irish we eat our young.

    Michael.

    • Daithi7

      Hi Michael,

      Wooo doesn’t see that coming.

      My initial reaction is that it’s a regressive black day for the UK and for all its nearest and dearest friends I.e. Ireland, the EU and the US, in about that order unfortunately.

      Anyone who thinks that borders, tariffs, restrictions on trade and restrictions on internal movement of people and labour within Europe is a good development, just stop, breathe and think!

      It’s not that the EU is or was perfect, there were and are certain democratic /eurocratic deficits and lack of accountability in places. The handling of the banking crisis wasn’t great, but it wasn’t as bad as an incoherent EU could have handled it maybe!?

      Michael you asked me to imagine Ireland without the EU, I doubt have to imagine it, just look at Ireland of the 1950s, cos that’s it I.e. An Ireland that’s inward looking, regressive and depressed. Thank God for the EU even with its imperfections.

      • michaelcoughlan

        Thanks for responding.

        “Anyone who thinks that borders, tariffs, restrictions on trade and restrictions on internal movement of people and labour within Europe is a good development”

        I don’t think there is going to be anything like that. I think that England especially will now be free to take on its own banking establishment and stop them asset stripping the place like whats happening here because they won’t have to fear (as we do) the backlash from diplomats in Europe.

        It may not be good for Ireland in the short term for sterling to get weaker true but we will overcome our diffuculties.

  23. The EU brought this upon themselves with their disgraceful abuse of power & despicable treatment of countries like Greece & Ireland.

    Good luck to the British ploughing their own furrow.

    • Deco

      100% in agreement.

      The leadership of the EU has far too much power, and far too little accountability.

      And no ability.

      We are run by a collection of Phil Hogans. Just look at Irish Water, and “absorb” that thought.

      The British have opted to get clear of an underperforming decision making body in Brussels.

      Sterling will cope.

      But the Euro is going to find itself in serious trouble.

      And there is an election in Spain that is about to cause Brussels more headaches.

      The EU has been bankrolled by Germany and Britain. And Germany is going to run out of money trying to prop up a dysfunctional, underperforming, crisis ridden entity. The Dutch are not happy with the power of lobbyists in subverting the people’s vital interests. And the Italians are not happy with the currency, and the unemployment. The French are borrowing like crazy. And so are the Irish, the Spanish and the Belgians.

      There is a serious level of underperformance across many countries in the EU. And there has been a deliberate reluctance to talk about it.

      • McCawber

        French ATCs sums the EU up as I said somewhere else no responsibilite.
        If it was the Irish ATCs the EU would be on us like a fly on sh!t.
        EU = Double standards.

  24. Home Counties Girl

    Morning/Mourning,

    I’m not quite sure how to summarise my feelings from the EU ref result, however, it feels like the initiation of a divorce (my first official divorce) is underway – and it feels crap, really does! I know the majority on here will be delighted with the outcome, and even though this result will not hinder my future too much – it is still a sad day for the regular European, I’ve been in touch with friends on the continent and the mood is sombre. In the last few minutes I’ve been speaking to my Polish and Hungarian tenants renting in Warwick and they’re feeling nervous that they’ll be kicked out.

    I’ve been utterly disgusted with the conduct of the campaigns from both sides, and earlier this morning nut job Farage was questioned about the £350 million they promised for the NHS – which he is now suggesting was a MISTAKE. Here’s his response:
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/06/watch-brexit-lies-unravel-nigel-farage-calls-350m-week-promise-nhs-mistake

    What exactly is there to celebrate from the outcome of this referendum, when it was based on lies, fear and immigration??? Just look at the demographics that voted for OUT. Need I say more.

    I guess a win is a win albeit a dirty one. Let the music begin…

    PS. @Pat Flannery – Just wanted to THANK YOU for the comments you made from the previous post – I liked how you pushed others to validate their views, some incredible thinking going in your brain. Cheers.

    • And the validations were provided. It is a somewhat lazy brain who keeps responding “Prove it”. The disbelief then is continued despite the evidence provided. The response then turns to personal name calling of those disagreed with.

      The governance from the EU is one involving a lack of democracy. It is a politburo of appointed commissioners overseeing the activity of thousands of bureaucrats producing 100′s of 1000′s of rules and regulations.

      You can keep the Soviet Union of Europe. But millions of Europeans are abused and now disillusioned. Hopefully change is afoot as demanded by the people themselves. Democracy stirs. A collections of independent nation states in cooperation, economically and socially is a better framework. We need rid of centralized autocratic rule from the top down.

    • Daithi7

      Couldn’t agree more.

      A black day for the UK, Europe and Ireland.

      Your analogy to a divorce is spot on. Imho This will in effect have all the negative energy, activity and fall out from a national divorce.

      The people who are happy with this outcome are either totally disaffected, delusional or both if they think this will lead to a better UK, Europe or indeed (maybe especially) Ireland.

      • Happily delusional.
        No marriage works when one partner is constantly abused and controlled by the other. Better to get out before there is a mental breakdown.
        Who needs to be treated like Greece. Betrayed by it’s politicians and asset stripped by the turkey vultures of the IMF, EU and ECB

        Freedom is innovating and energizing. It is time for self reliance and the abandonment of the cold clammy hand of socialism. The state that is big enough to give you everything you need is powerful enough to take everything you own.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Hi, Home Counties Girl

      “In the last few minutes I’ve been speaking to my Polish and Hungarian tenants renting in Warwick and they’re feeling nervous that they’ll be kicked out.”

      Mr Farage was asked (by a Pole) about it directly on the show as to what will change in the rights of Poles already living in the UK and he answered: “nothing”.
      I think economic downturn in general might have a bigger effect on it all.

      It would be gas though if after introducing the Australian style immigration system that Mr Farage proposes they would end up with double levels of immigration, like they did in Australia (for example, despite all the talk of cheap Eastern European labour, it is the lack of q u a l i f i e d British labour they suffer from – i.e. one of the Leave camp supporters who owns a truck company says he still cannot find qualified truck repair mechanics among the English and has to bring them from Eastern Europe; same with foreign languages teachers, which so crucial in modern economy; Brexit will not change that failure of the English education system that produces low-skills workers, if significant percentage of the so called English working class prefer to sit at home with mummies, in pubs and in Ladbrokes – and those English who are ambitious – and there many of them too! – had been screwed with students debt – now he (the truck company owner) will have the whole world to import workers from; 10 years ago I was told the same about C++ programers in Ireland by a HR recruiter, this was years after IT revolution).

      2. “I’ve been utterly disgusted with the conduct of the campaigns from both sides”
      Yes, me too, even though I think the Leave side had better arguments overall (that does not mean they did not use manipulation and doctored statistics too).

      3. “@Pat Flannery – Just wanted to THANK YOU for the comments you made from the previous post – I liked how you pushed others to validate their views, some incredible thinking going in your brain.”

      Yes Pat, thank you

    • McCawber

      The real test now is – What is the EU going to do with the information that not everyone agrees with their policies and are prepared to put their money where their mouths.
      The real lies were /are coming from the EU.
      Do as we say not as we do.
      So while Britain is naturally concerned about it’s own future, I’m far more worried that all we’ll get is a shrug of the shoulders and good riddance – Jonkers didn’t even bother with the shrug just eff off.
      Europe is screwed with that kind of attitude.

  25. Home Counties Girl

    Oops, yes, of course, there is that silver lining – anyone in the UK wanting that super suction Dyson vacuum. it’ll be on the market very soon.

    Quick Q. Can I still buy a Euro Millions lottery ticket?

  26. The consequences of leaving the party
    BY ALASDAIR MACLEOD GOLDMONEY INSIGHTS JUNE 24, 2016
    The collective decision of the British electorate is to reject the recommendation of its government, excepting those of its few dissenting ministers, that Britain should remain in Europe.

    It is a signal failure of government policy. Above all, it is a failure that undermines the state’s control over ordinary people. Time will tell whether it is just a temporary setback for the world’s economic planners, or the removal of a keystone supporting the whole structure of modern statism.

    There are, therefore, two aspects of this development that must be considered, domestic UK politics and the international economic and political consequences.

    There can be little doubt that David Cameron and George Osborne the Chancellor are now only caretakers, with the duty of managing a planned withdrawal from Europe until their replacement as executive politicians. The withdrawal will be a lengthy process, which over the next two years at least, will lead to the final, official separation. It is possible there will be attempts by the European elite in Frankfurt and Paris, to come up with proposals to keep Britain in the EU club and to force a second referendum. Any such attempt will fail, because it cannot even be entertained by a caretaker Prime Minister.

    David Cameron’s days as Prime Minister are numbered and he now has no real authority. The Conservatives will have to elect a new leader, and the bookies’ favourite is almost certain to be Boris Johnson. He is likely to be elected by the Conservative Party by the end of this year.

    Britain’s future will therefore be subject to the policies of a Boris-led government, which it has to be admitted, will have obtained power basically through the failure of the Remain camp to come up with a convincing argument. It was arguably Remain that lost, and not Leave that won.

    While the Leave camp campaigned on an agenda, which by implication was for freer markets, it is another thing to assume that regulations and red-tape will actually be rescinded. Therefore, a cynic might with justification point out that instead of being controlled by one bunch of inept politicians in Brussels, the British economy will be run by another bunch of inept politicians in Westminster.

    The reality is that Boris Johnson, if he becomes Prime Minister, and his future government are creatures of the system. Importantly, they lack the intellectual basis to confidently challenge it. Doubtless, they will consult the same advisors who supported Remain, not just in the civil service, but in the private sector banks and in big business. No politician, unless he really understands the economic challenge, is immune from the persuasive efforts of these lobbyists and vested interests.

    Britain’s progress from being part of a European super-state to full independence is therefore unlikely to be smooth. The UK will, once again, be more exposed to the discipline of private sector markets. Sterling markets are not too big for speculators to attack successfully. There is a significant risk, in the short-term at least, that Britain will stumble from sterling crisis to sterling crisis.

    We could argue that from today, nothing immediately changes. Britain will still be an EU member for the next two years. This is true, but it ignores the fact that markets are forward-looking, and will not treat government procrastination kindly. It will be a steep learning curve for Boris & Co.

    Two bits of unfinished business will have to be addressed. There is little doubt that the post-referendum collapse in sterling was exacerbated by the derogatory statements of two men, George Osborne, the Chancellor, and Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England. Both men in office have a duty not to undermine the economy or the currency in their statements. Some latitude can be given in this matter to an incumbent politician, but not to the head of a central bank.

    If Remain had prevailed, they would have got away with it. But it did not, and the Leave vote carried the day despite their threats. The consequences of their scare tactics, it could be argued, have not only made things worse for sterling and sterling-denominated financial markets than they would otherwise be, but their statements have contributed to a wider market crisis. Both men are therefore likely to be forced from office sooner rather than later.

    Black swans and just deserts

    The immediate response in global markets to the Leave surprise has been one of panic, starting with Asian markets, and a yen soaring to under 103 to the dollar. Gold has been just about the only bright spot, jumping by over 6% to $1340 at one point. Given sterling’s weakness, gold has risen more dramatically measured in pounds, by nearly 20% to £1,000 per ounce. Asian equity markets are taking it badly, with the Japanese market down over 7.5%.

    This is the overnight market news. With a bit of luck, traders might be more rational when European markets begin trading properly later this morning. However, the global financial and economic situation is dire, and ripe for a crisis. At particular risk are the European banks, whose complacent bets on a Remain result will hurt them badly. Expect the share prices of banks such as Deutsche, UniCredit and Credit Suisse to plumb new lows, fuelling concerns about their solvency.

    That is the black swan. Just deserts are the fare of politicians in Europe and the crew at the IMF. The EU is faced with populist demands for democracy, or at least a better system than on offer from the EU hierarchy. It will be lucky to avoid further disintegration, with ex-members seeking their own trade alliances. That is, if a systemic banking crisis doesn’t get it first.

    The IMF also made a very bad and inappropriate call, with Christine Lagarde publicly supporting the Remain mantra of gloom and doom in the event of leave. This important institution, which issues the world’s SDRs, would have served markets better if it had kept quiet and prioritised risk control. Its credibility has been badly damaged.

    I must end this report on one further gloomy note. The bullion banks in their complacency have built up large short positions in gold, which by 5.00AM London time this morning had soared $100 at one point. Unless, during the course of today’s trade, gold loses most of this remarkable rise, there could be defaults in this market. The gold market, being based on the one form of money that is no one else’s risk, is central to the whole financial system. This could turn out to be the largest worry of all.

    • Deco

      Tony,

      How often have you heard it told ?
      All that glitters is not gold….

      Gold may be a better deal than Irish state bonds, Dublin real estate or shares in AIB. [ all three are heavily maniupulated by state policy, for various reasons ]. I honestly do not know if it is or not. I know that asset markets are bing manipulated by low interest rates.

      But a metal element is not the meaning of life.

      • You are sidetracked by the mention of gold. BUT it a free mans money and will and is reasserting itself. It cannot be corrupted as is the unlimited supply of paper and digitised garbage that is being devalued infront of your eyes every day. We are persuaded that inflation is good for us but it is simply anther word for stealth taxation. currency devalued as a central bank policy by 2% per annum..

        Why is it that all the major counties of the world still have a stash of gold while pretending it is of no value? Because they know that it is the only way to re-balance the books of every indebted nation.

        There will either be a reset of the gold price during a weekend bank holiday or the market itself will overcome the manipulation to reset the values where they should be.

        To reflect the loss of purchasing power of the world currencies the actual value of gold and silver too will be many multiples higher as measured in currency.

        Today is a small demonstration as priced in pound sterling gold is 14% higher. Or should I say that sterling paper products have dropped in value by 14%.

        gold is the measuring stick of the value of all currencies and is why central banks fear gold while at the same time hoarding it.

        To balance the books, even on a fractional reserve basis will require a gold value in USD of at least 50,000. It will happen. timing is unknown, but sooner rather than later. The world is bankrupted by central bank policies and nowhere more so than Europe. There is nothing of substance holding up the economy. Just, propaganda, manipulation, and words of smoke and mirrors.

        As for the meaning of life, that is a philosophical question and not an economic one. different strokes for different folks. One mans meat is another’s poison, Jack Spratt could eat no fat, his wife could eat no lean. Each to his own on that regard.

        Finally to re post from above.
        “The gold market, being based on the one form of money that is no one else’s risk, is central to the whole financial system. ”

        That is right. Gold as money is not based as a debt. Gold is central to the worlds financial system and to its well being. The fact is, that it happens to have qualities of beauty, and can glitter, as well as others of a practical nature that make it useful and indispensable as the basis for honest trade and good governance.

        • Don’t waste the last decades of your life being scammed by this nonsense Tony.

          The gold people just want your hard earned cash, they love nothing better than scamming vulnerable pensioners.

          They are shameless and odious.

          • Those ‘premium collector’s coins’ are going to sit on your sideboard for a few years, looking at you and if they could talk, they’d be saying to you ‘You’ve been scammed mate’.

            Soon as you are gone your heirs will flog them and use them for real life, which is what you should really be doing with your hard earned cash.

  27. Deco

    Well, it seems that the need for the Irish institutional state to unveil a plan, has resulted in a PR stunt that is going to set all the sceptics straight about the state having a plan.

    But really….this is just another PR stunt.

    Can our politicians stop pumping out hot air, and behave like grown ups ?

    Even once ?

    Britain will still have free trade with the EU. That is undeniable. Stopping that would cost Germany too much. Simply put the German and British industrial systems are as connected as the German and Swiss industrial systems. Germany’s politicians might try to save face, but her industrial leaders will tell them to stop playing like children.

    France will make loads of noise, but will not want Canada or New Zealand taking French market share (because French exports as a share of world trade have been declining since Mitterand stepped into the Elysee Palace).

    The labour market will presumably become slightly Canadian. And there will be a different form of immigration. Probably better for Indian professionals, and probably not as good for Romanian construction workers. Wages at the bottom will rise. And hopefully that will fix the cycle of post industrial deprivation.

    Because there are serious problems in Britain’s cities. Problems with substance abuse, dysfunctional behaviour, etc… Britain needs to going back to building a society. That project stopped under Thatcher, and was completely thrown out by Blair.

    Euro-sclerosis needs a vibrant policy making challenge. Currently it has none. And for that reason it is controlling policy.

    There is something seriously flawed with the EU.

    And come to think about it, there is something seriously flawed with the mainstream politicians in FF/FG/etc… They do not have a plan for anything except soundbites, and PR stunts. They outsource decision making to Brussels. It is the ultimate form of outsourcing. But they pay themselves better than any call centre worker in the Phillipines. And thet get their pals and relatives into the state system.

    Ireland is chronically underprepared for an increasingly nimble, competetive Britain. Ireland, with another property boom, and a myriad of absurd taxes/charges on top of a 50% marginal tax rate on labour, is in a lot of trouble here.

    Will they finally fix the Dublin property bottleneck by building upwards ?

    Will they reform the oversized institutional state ?

    Will the oligopolies in the media and other sectors get prized apart ?

    Or, are we going to get more PR stunts ?

  28. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    It turns out I was wrong – I thought that when push comes to shove – that is if the votes are very close, they will simply rig the results; this did not happen, perhaps because push did not come to shove – the difference was 4%, or perhaps UKiP learned how to control the election process (I know they used some experts from Poland thanks to UKiPs alliance with the ruling PiS party in the European Parliament; PiS has created Citizens Movement for Controlling the Election to prevent the repetition of the rigged local election, where the Peasants Party – PSL – received well more votes than expected (by a factor of 10) in a region (Gdynia) where they have had little historical support yet the EU Commission was ok with that, even though they received a detailed report on it, because the government of Donald Tusk suited the balance of powers in the EU – thus almost two thousand formal protests lodged in local courts about the 2014 Polish local election fraud were ignored; this lack of response from the EU Commission, which was not worried about the election rigging but is worried now about the results of a democratic election in Poland, which even permeates to uninformed little brains of people like the Flying (with his financial capital) Dutchman Bonol this silence enabled the election fraud, when after a week of silence from the Commission the Peasants Party managed to gain just enough votes in aggregate to enable them to remain the junior governing partner and preserve PO’s Germany-backed ruling coalition.

    I think that whatever our opinion on Brexit is, those who believe in democracy should be happy that democracy won and the election was not rigged, even though there are some, like Mr Paul Joseph Watson (my favourite), who claim that it was rigged after all (having said that, as much as I like Mr Watson’s animated, clear and pugillistic videos, like everything, his claims also have to be double checked (i.e. that you cannot emigrate to Japan if you are a Muslim – I checked that – it is not true):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmBitxs8ZPg

    As far as Austrian elections are concerned, they were must have been modelling themselves on the Soviets (and, to a lesser extent, President Roosevelt), for some ways of them rigging the Presidential election were quite primitive; i.e., the official results for the town of Waidhausen and Ybbs record 13,262 votes as being cast or 4,200 more votes than the actual number of 9,026 people on the electoral roll, while the Austrian Interior Minister Johanna Mikl Leitner was removed from her position just before the elections precisely to enable election fraud to take place (for readers who read German, they can read more about the election fraud in Austria from first-hand accounts here:

    http://orf.at/stories/2340649/).

    So who was right and who was wrong in their Brexit predictions (from 3 December last year)?

    Wrong:

    Me, Stephen Kenny, Coldblow.

    Right:

    Michael Coughlan, Adam Byrne (I suggest David should start organising predictions competitions for his readers – a free copy of his latest books with dedication, and one free ticket + 50% discount for a partner to Kilkenomics Festival for the annual winner in prediction competition).

    Anyway, my suggestion is this: now, when the horse had bolted, all discussion should focus on Ireland’s strategy in how to make the most of that situation. We all know the limitations of Taoiseach Enda Kenny, but it is not gentlemanly to kick him when he is down – Taoiseach’s position now is very weak and instead of (correctly) hammering him for putting all his eggs in Remain basket, we should try to come up with some advice for him as to what strategy should Ireland embrace in attracting FDI (mind you, Max Keiser predicted that should the Brits leave, this will degrade the City of London to the second league and Frankfurt will take over the role of Europe’s financial centre – but maybe it can be Dublin?).

    Also, this changes the whole balance of powers in the EU. The Eurosceptic wing in the EU parliament (so far mainly consisting of UKiP and Polish PiS) will be wiped out, and Front Nationale in France, albeit Eurosceptic, are deeply socialist (socialism is good, but only for the French).

    What options does it leave for Ireland?

    1. Go along with Germany-France, colony-style.

    2. Play the role of the US Trojan horse in the EU, or China’s Trojan horse that the UK has played (the US and China may now compete over Ireland as to whose Trojan in the EU horse Ireland should be)

    3. Form a coalition with reformist countries in the EU (Austria, the Vysegrad Group, Scandinavia), or reformist PLUS failed/bankrupt
    peripheral countries (Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal). And Taoiseach, you have managed to piss off Mr Trump and N. Farage at the same time – if I can ask you not to piss off Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Mr Kaczynski – your potential allies – can you refrain yourself from that at least? I have always believed that You are far more intellgent than Bono, that’s why more people in Ireland watch you on TV (Bono is a nickname for the elderly pedastrians hitman Dutchman who testified in the US Congress that there is a growing nationalism in Poland and Hungary – da f…k he knows about that).

    4. Leave the EU (frankly speaking, I do not see it as realistic, and even if it was realistic, the possible course for out-of-the EU Ireland would most likely be a reversal to a mild fascism of Eamon De Valera, with all its inefficiencies and trade bariers (mind you, unlike the UK or Poland, no one in Ireland except for me is talking about getting rid of CAP).

    Btw, I am curious as to what course will the UK take now. Everyone is talking about the EU being the bureaucratic Moloch, but one has to remember that it was the UK that was the most regulated western country in post-WWII Europe, the only economic difference between the Communist countries and the UK being that the UK
    -received the Marshall Plan,
    -was not really damaged during WWII,
    -was declining from incredibly high levels of wealth
    -and their secret police was not jailing shop owners (but they had war-style regulations in the 40/50s that regulated even how the chairs should be arranged, with inspectors being sent with rulers to measure it – something unheard of in, i.e., social-democratic Sweden).

    And even now it was the UK that proposed in the EU higher regulatory burdens regarding banking and climate change than the EU itself (Poland in turn initiated the “Suspend the 2009 EU Climate & Energy Package” and the European movement against the ACTA legislation).

    So, I am not even sure as to free-market policies of the post-Brexit UK (although I am rather optimistic), let alone Ireland.

    Over to you, Taoiseach – be strong – I keep my fingers crossed. P.S. And do not believe everything Mr Donald Tusk says.

    • Be strong Taoiseach?

      Haha that’s funny Grzegorz – Enda Kenny will be over in Brussels or Strasbourg or wherever these incorrigible parasites meet for an ‘emergency conference’, in the very near future, sucking d*cks and getting bitch-slapped by French midgets.

      The words ‘be strong’ will not even cross his mind when he’s bending over to pick up the soap in the shower.

    • StephenKenny

      I wasn’t just wrong in December, I was wrong the evening before!

      The UK has led the world in intrusive legislation for 25 years, and, scratch the surface, and the state & private employees, and individuals, are gagging to wear (expensive) armbands and denounce their neighbours for being suspected of having counter-revolutionary thoughts.

      Orwell was writing about the UK. (Huxley was writing about Nazi Germany – Mr Savage was from a ‘reservation’, and didn’t like ‘civilisation’).

    • coldblow

      I was wrong and I still find it hard to believe the result. However the longer they take to implement the withdrawal the less likely it is it will happen.

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        Even more astounding than the result are two facts:

        1. 2.5 million people in the UK signed the petition to have another referendum. I mean if people are so stupid that they make decisions so spontaneously, it’s better not to ask them for opinion on crucial things like Brexit – I assume some part of this 2.5m must be voters who do not want to acknowledge the results of democratic referendum, but still, there must be huge chunks of the Leave voters among them because…

        2. The most frequently searched thing on Google in the UK AFTER the referendum was “what is the EU?”.

        Long live the English world’s ‘Gold Standard’ education system, which resulted in Wales being the EUs mathematically most illiterate region in PISA ratings (btw, 7% of UKiP supporters voted for Remain – they did not get the message?).

        3. “the longer they take to implement the withdrawal the less likely it is it will happen”

        I have not fully shaped my opinion on it yet.

        On the one hand, it is possible that they would use the legal trickery to force the Brits to have another referendum, like they forced the Irish with the Lisbon Treaty referenda (btw, how come we had the repetitions of divorce/abortion referenda, but if someone campaigned for the repetition of the gay marriage referendum, he or she would probably die the civil death?).

        I myself have showned a possible legal path for such legal trickery in my comment on Art. 50 above.

        But on the other hand, I have a feeling that on the contrary, the EU wants Britain to leave and they will do everything to punish them as harshly as possible to warn other states which are calling for the referendum (among them the Czech Republic, which – if they left – would f…k up the entire Mitteleuropa plan, which harks back to the late 19th century, but actually to arguably the most important event in the Czech history – 1619, when Elizabeth Stuart, the daughther of Jacob the First the King of England and Scotland, becomes the Czech Queen; however, the English and Dutch bankers hatch a plan to break up her marriage with Frederick – in Czech history known as the ‘winter king’ – in order to loot their lands; indeed, the Czech lands, the richest part of Mitteleuropa even under Habsburgs, become a queen/kingless no-ones land and, as a savoury morsel, fall pray to Habsburgs (and then Nazi Germany), while Czechs are reduced to a pre-national level until in the 19th century their national awareness is awakened again (parodoxically, thanks to romantic German academics).

        Furthermore, I would be even inclined to entertain a possibility of a conspiracy theory that the founding states of the EU actually wanted the UK to leave from as early as last year, that is from Queen Merkel’s call for the refugees to come to Europe (and now the founding fathers call for the abolition of visas for Turks, a country which the Commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania had fought so hard in 1683 in Vienna that it went belly up after that joined effort due to overstretching – btw, Bonnie Prince Charles Stuart, who went down in Scottish history in the Battle of Culloden, was a grandson of the Polish King Jan Sobieski the Third – my favourite Polish monarch (who married a French woman whereupon his political kudos vanished – he would spend the rest of his life writing love letters to his beloved French lassie (half in Polish, half in French and Latin – educated Poles of that time thought and spoke partly in Latin); so sick he would become on war journeys without his sweetheart that he would bring a renowned Irish doctor from Kerry, one Mr Bernard Connor, to treat him, who would become his loyal friend stay with him until the final hour – who had driven the Turks out of Europe in the said 1683 Battle of Vienna).

        No one in the official Ireland has noticed the disgraceful treatment of the new Polish government by the EU hard-core states, ranging from smear campaign, a humilliating spectacle with the Polish minister being cross-examined by Mr Guy Verhofstadt (a little entertaining article for Sunday on his personal integrity:

        http://www.thepressproject.gr/details_en.php?aid=62514

        )

        , to threatening Poland force will be used if refugee quotas are rejected (Herr Martin Schulz, the President of the European Parliament), to speculative attacks on Polish stock market and bribing Moody’s to downgrage Poland’s rating.

        Not in the official Ireland, but believe you me – in the UK they did. The UKiP and Conservative Party members were watching that hate campaign against the democratically elected government of Ms Beata Szydlo very carefully, and they were very outspoken about it, both in Brussels and in the UK.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv8AHHOnHZs

        So perhaps this was the plan from the very start – to throw out the UK and go on with things like tax harmonisation without any further obstacles.

        On Ireland’s situation I have this to say: all parties, including SF, should better start thinking of new coalitions in Europe since the Brits are no longer to protect the Irish tax regime (it should be obvious now to every common sense person that Britain, a country which never had friends in foreign politics to start with, only interests, will now be on a collision course with Ireland regarding FDI).

        A look at the corporation tax table should inform the TDs which countries to form coalition with in order to protect the Irish FDI, which no doubt will be an object of the attack from Frankfurt and Paris (i.e. HSBC want to move their centre from London post Brexit, but not to Dublin, but to Paris – so what the Irish corporation tax is low is Dublin is POLITICALLY insignificant and thus an easy pray to political pressure from Frankfurt, which means instability):

        EU Countries with corporation tax 25% and above:

        - Austria
        - Belgium
        - France
        - Germany
        - Greece
        - Italy
        - Spain

        Countries with corporation tax 20% and below:

        - Bulgaria
        - Cyprus
        - Czech Republic
        - Estonia
        - Finland
        - Hungary
        - Ireland
        - Latvia
        - Lithuania
        - Netherlands, Bono’s homeland (up to 200,000 euro)
        - Poland
        - Romania

        If they want to be re-elected, I expect the Irish MEPs do something more in Brussels than nails and voting to make their expenses hidden from the public. You will not get re-elected if Ireland’s FDI goes to Frankfurt and Paris.

        If Britain implements radical reforms, it can be as rich as Switzerland (whether the UKiP voters would like it, I doubt it, because rather than reverting to 1960s no-competition from China, car design leading auld England with salaries purchasing power unspoiled by QE and property bubble, it would mean more competition, including more skills required from the natives at the job market, and no CAP) and geopolitically more powerful than Germany; furthermore, strong free-market Britain will be able to create a new EFTA like structure, which would might be more attractive for other countries than the EU.

        But but but

        If Britain tries to revert to butskellism, it will make Greece look like a prosperous country in comparison (because they would still have high functional illiteracy levels they have – one of the reasons they have to rely on foreign workers so much – and no manufacturing base, while the cost of living will be twice as high as in Greece).

        Taoiseach Enda Kenny said on that the government had the plan B prepared in the event of Brexit. I hope that His plan B was not that plan A would work.

        P.S. Ireland have put up a good fight. Maybe the French were better overall, but they had the advantage of resting for 7 days as opposed to Irish 4 days, and the heat advantage (most of them are black anyway). With temperatures around 10 degree, pissing rain and longer rest, Ireland might have won. What is it that the Irish and the French always meet each other on the stadium in controversial circumstances (red card)? Does God have a sense of humour?

        • “I would be even inclined to entertain a possibility of a conspiracy theory that the founding states of the EU actually wanted the UK to leave from as early as last year, that is from Queen Merkel’s call for the refugees to come to Europe”

          There is no ‘conspiracy theory’. That is a fact, an act of unilateral vandalism towards reciprocal protocols to manage the migrant crisis. The truly baffling thing is trying to figure out the rationale for this given the rise of Pegida in the aftermath. Was that also ‘planned’? What did the EU elite think the reaction would be of Brits watching a million desperate people being marched through Germany and then subjected to racist abuse by crypto-Nazis? That we’d just kick back and think the contagion would never spread here?

          Rogue elements over the Channel are ‘threatening’ to send the Calais Jungle to the beaches of Dover but Hollande surely wouldn’t be so barmy. A threat as empty as the SNP claim they can stop Article 50 by finding some obscure clause in devolution law. Nonsense.

          The rest of the EU absolutely knew that they had lit the blue touch paper. Once those scenes of a million desperate people walking from the Med to the German homeland were relayed on British television, #Brexit was on the cards.

          It’s quite astonishing that Farage faced ‘dog-whistle’ racism charges over a photo that merely refects those fact: that Europe was close to ‘breaking point’ because ‘Mother Merkel’ had had some sort of psychotic breakdown and ripped up the ‘Humanitarianism to cover Oil War Adventurism’ play-book.

          What is NOT addressed is how the entire European Union was deeply embedded in the Syrian catastrophe. Even Jo Cox [RIP] put her name to an article which explicitly presents bombing Syria as a policy option:

          “Third, on the military front. Some may think that a military component has no place in an ethical response to Syria. We completely disagree…”

          “British forces could help achieve an ethical solution in Syria”

          Andrew Mitchell and Jo Cox
          Sunday 11 October 2015 00.05 BST

          https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/11/british-forces-ethical-solution-syria-humanitarian-crisis

          Of course, the usual caveat of ‘no civilian casualties’ appears later but I’m sorry: Nobody of conscience could possibly accept the legitimacy of ‘humanitarian bombing’ in 2015. Can there really be anyone on the planet who hasn’t seen the footage of NATO war machines vapourising civilians. Had Jo Cox never watch the WikiLeaks footage? She co-signed this letter with a Tory MP: peas in a pod, which is another reason why many in the UK, including me, have said “Enough!” and voted to crash the US-uk_EU War Machine by voting Leave.

          If David McWilliams wants/needs to ban me for trashing the hagiography project for this murdered woman, then I understand. I’ve been ‘banned/denounced/reported to the authorities by several ‘friends’ since it all kicked off. Blink did I not.

          Jo Cox was being PR spun with a Diana/Mother Teresa meta-narrative during the referendum campaign. Corbyn cancelled a scheduled appearance at Glastonbury yesterday where he’d planned to eulogise her as The Progressive’s Princess: until we dropped a nuke on the EU by voting Leave. Enough is enough.

          Of course, that doesn’t mean that an ‘independent’ UK wont’ be selling arms to psychotic Saudis but we will be free to protest the War Machine Realpolitik without having to deal with the interminable byzantine obfuscations of the Soviet EUnion and it’s Humanitarian Colonialism.

          The atmosphere here is febrile. I have been riding the manic roller-coaster of the 24/7 media meltdown by unleashing a blizzard of absurdist concern-trolling, virtue-signalling and faux-ironic-Little Englandism on social media to an audience of myself and a few worried friends who think I’m pushing it all too far. But it’s all Method Acting. Imagining myself into these Extremistan Existential episodes is very draining: don’t try this at home, kids! I’d assumed an outcome of Remain then suddenly…whoosh!

          Whereas I’d allocated a day or so for post-Referendum debrief, it’s now clear this will go on…a long time. I’m not really into it, man…it’s summer..so I’ll vanish at some abrupt stage (hooray!). Just as Chancellor George Osbourne has vanished. I fear he’s had a total mental breakdown and is under sedation. If you see George wandering in a stunned trance around Dublin, tell him his friend David is very worried about him and he needs to ring home so the police searches can be called off. When I do ‘vanish’ again, please feel free to assume/speculate that I’ve been sectioned to a psychiatric facility. I’ve spent the vast majority of my life in a mental asylum-called England. 180!

          It’s been a mad few days but there was no Plan B, no ‘risk assesment/SWOT’ analysis done for ?#?Brexit?. It will all end in days. We’ve proved our point. UK Parliament IS Sovereign, ipso facto, it can frustrate Brexit. Ref Doomsday device won’t be detonated. Heads/Tails: we win.

          I expect a full sitting of the House to vote to nullify the result. Then a general election to put the same question to the Subjects of The Crown via manifestos and FPTP system.

          There will be a lot of red/blue blood before a new PM and new versions of Labour/Tory parties emerge. Total disaster. Referendums are not part of our Demos, plebiscites, plebs: “The Mob Is Fickle” If my scenario doesn’t pan out: Expect a very British military coup. LOL!

          The final option to defuse this Doomsday Device is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth 11 appearing on the telly to shut down the rabid media-political class and calmly ask the British people to accept her view that they must defer to her Royal Privilege for The Crown and The Real is in danger. That would end it in 30 minutes. I tried to explain that to my kids but they are part of the hysterical freak out and are demanding I get them Irish passports so they aren’t ‘trapped’ in this dystopian nightmare that is #GreatBrexitan

          I don’t tell them that if England drowns beneath the waves then Ireland will be engulfed with English refugees. Or invaders…I don’t tell them that the lifeboat of an Irish passport will be irrelevant if the EU think they can ‘punish’ the UK. It will all come crashing down.

          I tell them: Keep calm. Stiff Upper Lip. Chin Up! Toodle pip! Then I put on my bowler hat, jump into my Morgan and Top-Gear it all over the Malvern Hills and yonder through the Golden Valley and The Marches. It’s very bizarre to be living in the heart of darkness, the Heart of England, so close to the border with our renegade outlaw allies, the Welch.

          Totally nutso outcomes ‘going forward’ present a non-trivial risk but it’s not only the UK political and media Establishment who look ridiculous, it’s the entire EU Project for reciprocally trolling the UK forty years after the Dad’s Army tropes were meant to have been relegated to a television sit-com.

          God Save The Queen!

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Andrew,
            Quite a few subjects touched on; I will only briefly relate to a few due to time limitations.

            1. “That is a fact, an act of unilateral vandalism towards reciprocal protocols to manage the migrant crisis.”

            I agree; furthermore, the mismanagement of the migrant crisis involving vandalising reciprocal protocols was elevated to Kafkaesque levels when unelected, unaccountable European Commissioner literally slapped Prime Minister Victor Orban in Brussells for his attempt to obey the EU law (the Dublin Regulation).

            2. “The truly baffling thing is trying to figure out the rationale for this given the rise of Pegida in the aftermath. Was that also ‘planned’?”

            Never mind Pegida (btw, they are also recruiting in Wroclaw – Wroclaw is a very strange place that is not controlled by Warsaw; initially taken over by KGB, currently by BND) – there are more baffling puzzles, such as this: while I would not be breaking my lance to defend what I am going to say, I have suggested a couple of times to consider a possibility that the Tsarina Merkel actually w a n t e d to revive Neo-Nazis. I have said, and showed evidence (whoever is curious, he or she can spend 15 minutes on finding it on this blog’s archives) many times that the German neo-Nazi movement is in fact controlled by the BND, up to the level of German state shaping their programme.

            So – if you want to revive neo-Nazism in the country you rule – and, killing two birds with one stone, give police more powers and introduce more regulations, which would enable the state to pry on us – would inviting a million migrants to Germany (while not making any efforts to check their identity and authenticity of their asylum claims) not fall within the rationale of the ‘how to create a totalitarian state so that the citizens will not riot?’ – (on the contrary, they would fully support it, driven by humanitarian impulses, their brains soaked with the Frankfurt School).

            As a result, you will end up with 2 things:

            - soft despotism, a prelude to a totalitarian state
            - controlled neo-Nazism, that can be used when it suits the Tsarin.

            The great Alexis de Tocqueville has called it a soft despotism, and described it as follows (in Volume II, Book 4, Chapter 6 of Democracy in America):

            “It covers the surface of society with a network of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided; men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting. Such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”

            3. “The rest of the EU absolutely knew that they had lit the blue touch paper.”

            Interestingly, when Prime Minister Orban proposed to increase funds for the protection of Greece’s borders (this was before the boat-refugee crisis), Germany blocked it. When, following the Greece crisis, the Visegrád Group countries send their own police forces to protect Greece’s borders (so not everyone in the EU is equally culpable), they changed the routes of smuggling people. Finally, Germany first launched a smear campaign against Hungary that they closed their border, whereupon Germany shut their own border with Austria.

            Thus we ended up with displaced refugees in tents and not-so-displaced terrorists in luxury hotels planning new terror attacks.

            What was the German solution? Take as many migrants as we tell you or else pay 250,000 for each migrant. Where is that written in the EU law?

            3. “What is NOT addressed is how the entire European Union was deeply embedded in the Syrian catastrophe. Even Jo Cox [RIP] put her name to an article which explicitly presents bombing Syria as a policy option”

            Yes Andrew, I agree, but this is not the whole picture. If this was the whole picture, you would only (or mainly) had refugees from bombed Syria – but the contrary is true: most refugees

            a) Are not Syrians, not even from countries bombed by NATO; some of them are now refused re-entry to countries that gave them asylum because it turns out that they went for holidays to their wives and children in countries where their life is in oh-such-a-danger (I tell you what is the place where your life is really in danger: walking Fairview at night, the leader in criminality per capita on British Isles); Sweden is deporting 80,000 of them – but one would not hear it in the mainstream media.
            b) Did not come directly from the countries they are bombed, but from the safety of their camps in Turkey.

            4. “If David McWilliams wants/needs to ban me for trashing the hagiography project for this murdered woman” – no, I do not think so.

            5. “A threat as empty as the SNP claim they can stop Article 50 by finding some obscure clause in devolution law.”

            It does not matter if the legality of it would be questioned, it matters if they – SNP – want to go the whole hog or not. I think if the polls are good for Independence, and they are, they will.

            The EU has done many things (like arranging the Minsk talks skipping the EU own procedures and power structures) that were plainly illegal; what SNP want to do only has the (still mad) odium of a move which legality can be questioned.

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-veto-brexit-scottish-parliament-eu-referendum-scotland-latest-a7104046.html

            http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/525618/Brexit-EU-referendum-Scotland-SNP-independence-Scottish-parliament-Holyrood

            I personally think that this might be an opportunity for Ireland if – if! – cleverly managed by the Taoiseach, but a great tragedy for Great Britain. I cannot see how this – Scotland leaving the Kingdom – can make England or Scotland stronger.

            And… if the British pound is falling, imagine the Scottish pound!

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        I forgot to add one more thing – I think even a bigger influence on Europe and Ireland than the result of the (non-binding!) referendum will have Ms Nicola Ferguson Sturgeon blocking Brexit in the Scottish Parliament

        • coldblow

          I’m on a tablet (!) and it is hard to type so forgive my brevity. The problem about not leaving the EU isn’t from the EU but from Westminster, which is overwhelmingly in favour of remaining. I haven’t followed it at all but I suspect Johnson and Give are also; I have no idea why, apart from personal ambition, they joined Leave. My experience of Facebook has been hysterically pro Remain. It is an extravert thing, emotion. Leaving may be harder than leaving the Soviet Union except it is more a prison of the mind (much as I am allergic to rhetoric).

          • coldblow

            Hitchens’s last two articles are enlightening. I don’t know how to link.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            Coldblow,

            You know obviously how the idea of the referendum came about in the first place?
            Before the EU was established after the Lisbon Treaty (once I was in the huge room filled with Trinity College experts and none of them knew it; one of them was genuinly suprised when I showed her), there had been attempt to block its creation. One such attempt was dwarfed in Ireland by asking people (thi s has to be imagined as being said in a strong Belfast accent ;-) ‘please change your mind now’; the last three resistance countries were: Czech Republic, Poland and the UK. The Czech President said he would not sign it; Prime Minister Cameron started looking for allies against the Lisbon Treaty and found the said Vaclav Klaus the Polish President Lecz Kaczynski, who said if they do not sign it, he will not sign it either; whereupon all the EU Commissars ;-) came to Prague and literaly started to verbally abuse the Czech President (later on one of them would hit Mr Victor Orban in his face) so much so that he stopped his speech. Eventually Mr Cameron said that it all depends on Presidents Kaczynski and Klaus, and if they sign it, he will call for Brexit referendum, assuming they will not sign it. But President Klaus was forced to resign and sign, and President Kaczynski naively said publicly to Tsarin Merkel that Poland would waive all WWII compensation claims from Germany if Germany waives on all compensation claims from Poland, whereupon he was duped into signing the Lisbon Treaty and then Merkel said that she cannot waive on any compensation claims from Poland (including 1/3 of Polish territory); eventually President Kaczynski was killed in a plane crash with half of his government and most of the army commanders (conveniently, under the regime of Prime Minister Donald Tusk, CCTV footage from 24 hours surrounding the departure of the main military plane in Poland gone missing and was never found, while the wreck of the plane was never returned from Russia, and the voice recording tapes had been doctored; when the leading Polish newspaper reported explosives were found, they sacked the journalist and the state bought the newspaper).

            So Prime Minister Cameron was left in a situation whereby The Lisbon Treaty went through and he had to keep his promise on the Brexit referendum which was his bluff in first place, aimed mainly at stopping the rise of UKiP.

            This goes with the good British tradition of making promises that are bluffs, like the Polish-British military agreement that Britain will attack Germany if Poland is attacked and is able to defend herself for two weeks.

            Ireland, it is better to have enemies than such friends (however, the Poles have always been naive).

            But Mr Farage is also a bit naive (his lies with NHS nonewithstanding, but they all lie, and of course Mr Farage lies less than Mr Corbyn). If he thinks that Germany will treat them kindly in trade agreement because they buy German cars, wake up Nigel – the Visegrad Group countries had been buying much more from Germany than the UK (in fact, they had been Germany’s primary source of incomes from exports/tax dodging – not the US or China) and t h i s does not stop Germany from treating the Visegrad Group like shit). And what cars would the British buy – Russian?

            http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel-farage-nhs-350-million-pounds-live-health-service-u-turn-a7102831.html

          • coldblow

            Grzegorz, this is news to me too!

  29. Daithi7

    No man is an island,
    Entire of itself,
    Every man is a piece of the continent,
    A part of the main.
    If a clod be washed away by the sea,
    Europe is the less.
    As well as if a promontory were.
    As well as if a manor of thy friend’s
    Or of thine own were:
    Any man’s death diminishes me,
    Because I am involved in mankind,
    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls;
    It tolls for thee.

  30. McCawber

    A few commebts.
    1. Heisenberg rules the markets and always will.
    2. 72% turnout (if I got my facts right)is a pretty decent turnout.
    Did you ever wonder why so many people don’t vote – Does anyone have an answer for this.
    3. Enda Kenny and official Ireland haven’t a clue. They’ve spent most of the last 100 years disenfranchising and exporting a considerable number of our citizens (with no cetificated
    education due to their insistence that the I
    rish language is important) to the UK So why would any of them listen to him and his exhortation to vote for Ireland. Vote f^ck off Enda more like.
    4. The French ATCs – Striking every Tuesday for the last few weeks but not this week, they pulled the plug on Brexit day.
    The Welsh English Scotish supporters were not and have not been impressed with the ATC this summer.
    I like the French – They brought us liberte, egalite and fraternity but they sure as hell didn’t give us responsibilite.
    They may not like the brits but they could live to regret what they wished for.

    • McCawber

      As a footnote to the last item.
      Hollande makes Kenny look good and that is saying something..

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        Dear McCawber,

        “Hollande makes Kenny look good and that is saying something.”

        I totally agree with that statement. While I am refraining myself from overly caustic comments on President Higgins (after all, I live under and cooperate with His jurisdiction), when it comes to President Hollande, even the breach of his Presidential privilege would not stop me from declaring that the wife-betraying, ugly, retarded and monumentally arrogant dwarf should be sterylised socialist Sweden-style (Sweden was a leader in eugenics long before and long after the Nazi Germany). And why would I say such a cruel thing?

        Part of the answer to that question lies in the answer I gave to a Frenchman as to what country I think has the best government in Europe (I said France because knowing that there will have only Muslims left in the next generations, they are leaving them only debt).

        But even I was taken by surprise when before the Euro 2016 President Hollande said that he is most afraid of the Polish hooligans. It was not which hooligans he was afraid that made my jaw drop (yes, Polish hooligans can be a nuissance if provoced, though we could all see whose supporters posed the real problem), it was the reason President Holland gave: because there is a civil war in the Ukraine. The beef-witted frogman remembered the Euro 2012 that Poland co-organised with the Ukraine and he simply thought that this is some sort of confederation. Even President Clinton’s ignorance pales in comparison with that (Mr Clinton did not know which country he arrived in with the official visit, mixing up Slovakia with Slovenia).

        I mean, unlike the English, I am not Frogophobic by definition – after all, theirs was the leading civilisation so much so that in 19th century all Polish aristocrats were employing baby-sitters from France and families spoke French at official dinners, so my culturaly determined attitude to French is probably akin to the Irish attitude to the British Empire (love and hate); gosh, I even bet money France gets to the semifinal – but they are becoming the sick man of Europe, perhaps not as much as Southern Italy, but probably more than Portugal.

        I have been giving out to Germany a lot, but let’s not forget that the US/China both military expansion and manoeuvring in smoke-filled rooms, the third forgotten contributor to the Arab Spring was Ms Merkel’s promise to the French in Oct 2010 at the Deauville summit that they will be allowed to have their Mediterrenean pocket-empire, whereupon democracy started to prevail in hitherto relatively safe regions ruled by dictators.

        And the gas thing is that with all the money France has, everything related to the organisation of the Euro 2016 in France is worse than it was in poor, corrupted Poland and Ukraine (the latter by far poorer than Syria or Greece): police is inefficient and being there is less safe, the state of the lawn at stadiums is worse than in Poland or in the Ukraine and even the food is worse.

        Many people in Ireland and Poland have inferiority complex about the French culture. If I had lived in 17th century I would say this might be justified, but in the year 2016 the PISA results tell us this:

        Mathematical literacy:

        Irish – 501, French 495, Brits 494 (Germans 514, Poles 518)

        Science – Irish 522, French 499 (Germans 524, Poles 526)

        Reading – IRISH 523!!!!!!!, GERMANS 508, French 505, Brits 499!!!!!!!!!!!! (Poles 518).

        And yet so many of you think that the French are superior culturally. Why like???!!!! IRISH, YOU ARE BETTER EDUCATED THAN FRENCH! Stop thinking about the socialist France and bubble-wrapped Britain as culturally superior countries!

        The dangerous Polish hooligans clash with dangerous Northern Irish fans. First hand video. Do not belive mainstream media.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKxHyh9yUw&feature=youtu.be

    • DJR

      No certificated education? Strange claim to make
      And it’s our native language’s fault? Stranger still!

      • McCawber

        My brother had to go to England to get A levels to qualify for entry to Bolton Street.
        The reason being Official Ireland decided that four years (10-14) wasn’t sufficient to give him a bye on Irish (a useless f^cking language ) for his Inter or Leaving cert
        It never occurred to Official Ireland that the effort to obtain the required standard in Irish would impact elsewhere.
        They didn’t give two f^cks about the citizen.
        And the inequitable treatment still goes on.
        Irish language still required for civil service.
        Irish schools 10% bonus points for exams.
        Yes but it’s an individual choice to attend an Irish school.
        Why should a choice like that be available.
        My brother btw had the requisite “points” from his keaving cert but no pass in Irish no cert to give him his “points”.
        How many others were forced out of the country with no Leaving Cert because they failrd s useless language exam.
        The Magdelaine laundries weren’t the only atrocity visited on it’s citizens by Official Ireland.

  31. Deco

    Enda Kenny does not do strategic thinking.

    He does promises to find somebody from his extended family a job in the state system with no work or responsibility.

    This is Ireland’s greatest predicament of all. A useless amateur, who is given responsibilit for policy making, and who outsources that task to others who then serve their own interests.

    We should be forming alliances with Club Med in relation to finance, and with Scandinavia with respect to authority and the need for transparency.

    Instead Kenny is cozying up to Merkel (vastly over-rated) and Hollande (simply clueless), in an effort to have influence – and all he gets is being walked upon.

    Longer term, Ireland also needs to get it’s debts down, and get out.

    Of course, that is the genius of the “bailout”. It is designed to prevent any financial independence.

    The real symbol of the EU is the Fasces symbol. All the sticks bound together, in an inflexible state. Supposedly they are strong. But the real defining feature is a state of deadness. There are no green shoots. Despite all the propaganda from EU part funded propganda organs.

    The EU has become a zone of rigidity. With no growth. No dynamism. Just an obsession with authority. And a love of bureacracy. The will of those in the bureacracy power complex is supposed to superced all other concerns.

    Thankfully, somebody has spoken up and stated that enough is enough.

  32. It is now a strong likelihood that other countries will call for a referendum on EU hopefully this will be the demise of Europe in its current form giving rise to a confederation of independent states, sovereign peoples and currencies, cooperating in areas of mutual concern.
    Eliminate foreign adventurism. No more bombing and invasions of other countries. NATO is responsible for the flood of migrants crisis as they systematically destroyed several countries physically and politically. Nato is aggressively threatening Russia and heightening tensions. Europe was /is used as a proxy for this.
    After all we live peaceably enough in our neighbourhoods in our individually owned houses, and suburbs and by extension we can live with our neighbours in other states and countries. All we need is an agreement of non aggression between peoples.

    Imagine!!!

    • Definitely Tony. Much better.

      • Good Day Adam
        time to tend the Garden after sitting up to hear the results!!!
        I have just harvested a good crop of garlic. Unfortunately it seems to be mild so I will not be able to give off a certain aura!!
        It is fun to grow things, eat well and give a little gift package of home grown food to family, friends and neighbours.

        Take care.

  33. “So the entire financial world is focused on what is largely an irrelevant referendum on whether or not the UK will remain in the EU. Meanwhile, the rug is being pulled out from under the entire western economy, including and especially the U.S. economy.”

    http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/brexit-is-being- used-to-deflect-from-the-economic-collapse/

  34. michaelcoughlan

    Hi all,

    All the shit talk about the DOW being off 500 points since brexit so what?

    The SAME DOW fell 1870 points in 5 days between 19/082015 and 24/08/2015 or 1930 points between 31/12/2015 and 19/01/2016.

    Anybody lose any sleep?

    • Deco

      The hyperbole has been stretched beyond credence at this stage.

      Britain will end political union, and be another EU country, like Norway or Switzerland. It will be hypercompetitive in the short term, and probably also in the longer term. Switzerland is a country of few natural resouces, but a similar strong competitiveness streak.

      For amusement, a serious outbreak of Lindsay Lohan syndrome has broken out in some quarters. Call it misplaced concern, and a determination to seek Stockholm syndrome.

      The real problem is not Britain. The real problem is the EU without Britain. It will have less money. It will be Germany plus indebted others pliant to the Kanzler’s needs. In other words, the EU already deeply dysfunctional, will get closer to it’s inevtiable reckoning.

      Does the EU have a strategy ? Apart from more PR statements, and pretending that the EU is not running out of money.

      The pound might be under threat today, but next week, when the real signifcance of Brexit emerges, it will be the Euro that will be in trouble.

      Nowhere in the EU, or the ECB is there any serious reflection of a series of failures since Duisemburg stepped down as ECB President. It is completely off the table.

      The EU (like France) is incapable of reform.

      In that context, what the British did was entirely sensible. We in Ireland have enteretained some sort of fantasy that they like us because they threw us free money and the CAP. The free money is over. We have found out that. And the CAP is also proving extremely problematic.

      Here is a prediction – the EU will still not reform itself.

      • Agreed {:-) My tin foil hat!

        • Deco

          tony, that is the real problem.

          26 countries (and perhaps decreasing) who are bound like the elements of a Fasces symbol into stiffness for the presumed objective of greater strength.

          Instead, they are becomming slowly more fossil-like and lifeless.

          This is the Greek drama, but on the other side of the accounting book.

          Because Britain is the number two contributor to the EU. Greece was always a receiver of EU money.

          The Politburo types running Brussels are now facing a very serious imperative to reform. Like Breshnev’s buddies on the reviewing platform in the 1970s they are not going to move.

          That is a much bigger disaster than Brexit.

          • You are afraid of the breakup of Europe?
            Those Fascist bundles need to be broken up.
            If there is not the momentum to change and adapt there will be the end of this euro experiment.
            It was conceived to be authoritarian and implemented in stages with trickery and deceit.
            Lies were told with smiling faces.
            Reality is now showing the true structure.
            for the European structure to continue to function major changes need to be made. Not the least is the installation of a true democratic structure.
            Second is the abandonment of a European central bank. National banking functions need to be operated directly from national treasuries.
            National banking systems need to get out of the business of second guessing the market place.
            There needs to be a limit on the amount of money issued. The is no evidence that a vibrant economy needs an increasing money supply. That is inflation. Money needs to be a store of value as well as a medium of exchange. Silver coin needs to be introduced in parallel with the national fiat currency. It is one way to keep the national currency honest and not be inflated away.

            Now is the window of opportunity.

  35. Deco

    Britain has done something of such significance that cannot be overstated.

    Like Churchill, Nelson, Francis Drake, Castlereagh, and others a defiant signal has been sent to the continent concerning a very important point of principle.

    You cannot have any form of government, with the consent of the governed.

    Britain is in the same position as Ireland in 1921. In a position to aspire towards greater freedom.

    There is a considerable degree of parallel between the antics of Nicola Sturgeon, and Edward Carson 100 years aago.

  36. Deco

    Full speech about the road ahead, by Boris Johnson.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36616385

    Johnson has a vision.

    For Johnson the vision comes first, and the rest is consequential. He actually has a vision of where his country should be, and how it should be in the world. Even if you disagree with him, he deserves credit for getting that much correct.

    Where is the vision in the Irish government ? Is it purely limited to about Shane Ross getting the trains back on schedule ? Does it amount to a few independent TDs trying to get everybody on broadband ?

    From what I can see, there was a political process in Kildare Street where 2/3 of Irish politicians decided that they would not do the job that they were elected to do by voters – to take responsibility in the running of the country.

    Most of them took this position, out of sheer opportunism, and the fact that they are limited to protest politicians.

    Can you name one Irish politician, with a serious vision ?

    I am ruling out Richard Boyd Barrett, Gerry Adams and others whose vision is quite simply founded not on any core principles except opportunism and an urge to get themsleves in control. These are politicians who are a mile wide, and a millimetre deep. They are completely superficial, empty, and even hypocritical.

    Our politicians recently “celebrated” the vision of the “men & women of 1916″, in a very public manner. Before they then got back to business as usual as members of a garrison institutional state complex.

    The assumption being that we would not see any of this.

    Britain is not the problem of Brexit. The EU is the problem. It has mismanaged everything since 2003. And perhaps even sooner.

    The European Union is to the present day, what the Soviet Union was to the 1970s – the power behind increasing levels of lethargy, underperformance, and sheer stupidity.

    In a way the best thing possible is to state this openly.

  37. SMOKEY

    By the way, its President Trump. #brexit

    • He’s not going to get elected, no matter how much you want it SMOKEY.

      He doesn’t have the numbers.

      I called Brexit right and I bet I’ll call this right too.

      The odious Clinton will get elected.

      Neither of Trump or Clinton is a good choice.

      • It depends on a lot of things. Trump has to first confirm the nomination to be on the presidential ballet.
        Then the disaffected voter has to coalesce around Trump. Just maybe there are enough fed up with the lies and deceit of the status quo that it may be anyone but Hillary.

        • http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1466783318.php

          “First and foremost, the “people stood up and spoke”. The vote to exit is without a doubt the largest protest vote the world has seen in many years. It is important to note that the Brexit vote is symptomatic of what is happening worldwide. I would also say it is very similar to the Trump phenomenon here in the States, people are angry. (I would also say the results are very encouraging to the Trump camp). Next, we must wonder “who” is next? Italy, Spain, France? Then, the next exit is the curtain for the EU experiment as a whole. It is only a matter of time before the next referendum (Italy in October), Brexit is only the beginning of an end where individual countries will prefer to steer their own destinies. “Globalization” has been dealt a huge blow!”

      • McCawber

        I’d say the Brexit result won’t do him any harm at all.

  38. http://www.gata.org/node/16541

    “The main lesson of Britain’s decision may be an old one — that nations have to develop organically, arising from the consent of the governed and a common culture, and that they can’t be manufactured by elites. Having defended its sovereignty and indeed liberty itself against Napoleon and Hitler, Britain now has set out to defend them again. So rule, Britannia — Britannia, rule thyself.

    The nations not so blest as thee
    Must in their turn to tyrants fall,
    While thou shalt flourish great and free,
    The dread and envy of them all.”

  39. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/24/the-sky-has-not-fallen-after-brexit-but-we-face-years-of-hard-la/

    “This referendum was never a fight between Britain and Europe, as so widely depicted. It was the first episode of a pan-Europe uprising against the Caesaropapism of the EU Project and its technocrat priesthood. It will not be the last.”

    • McCawber

      Wow – The best reason so far for not holding such a referendum.
      It cheers me no end that Bertie is starved of the oxygen of being involved in politics.

    • McCawber

      I don’t know whether I do or I don’t believe this sort of report but one thing I have learned in life is that hindsight is 20-20 vision.
      So you get all the seemingly obvious questions being asked after the event.
      The real question to be asked is what did we learn from it.

      What did we learn from the Brexit result.
      The world didn’t end.
      The markets didn’t over react.
      Rather strangely the result seems to have come as a surprise and so little damage limitation was done beforehand.
      Cameron actually handled the resukt quite well, he was calm abd kicked the ball down the road , no need to panic.
      He’s been critised for having a referendum – f^ck me but he did a very democratic thing, how can that be wrong?
      Abd he’s standing down so he’s not going to try to interfere with the implementation of the result.

      • Truthist

        Cameron is being “magnanimous” because it allows him to save face & ease the way for Boris Johnson to be accepted as Prime Minister ;

        The local Hidden Government of The Institutional State of U.K. [ I-SUK ], & indeed the Hidden Govt. of all Hidden Govt.s [ The Rothschilds ], have decided that so-called “Boris the Buffoon” is to be the new P.M..

        Boris is no Buffoon of course ;
        His buffoonery is only an act.
        Boris is a very clever rogue.

        And, Boris is very willing & adept to play the part that will be the imposed fashion for new leaders of countries, & organisations,
        vis.
        Arrogance & Indifference to common man’s plight

        Each of the main U.S.A. Prezzie candidates will perform with that characteristic.
        It is evident already in their deportment.

        Madeleine Albright [ former USA Secretary of State ] would be another example ;
        According to her it was worth that the USA proxy military — with their Irish State collaborators — rape, torture, & kill millions of innocent Iraqi men women & children.

        https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&q=Madeleine+Albright+AND+it+was+worth+it&btnK=Google+Search

        And, hey, it will be encouraged from on high to be replicated by the Civil Serpents dealing with u personally at the counter.
        Especially, towards Social Welfare dependents.

        • Truthist

          Found this about real sentiments on UK being in E.U. of Boris the Bufoon [ socalled ] & Jeremy Corbyn ;

          https://www.rt.com/op-edge/347589-uk-politics-johnson-corbyn/

        • McCawber

          Cameroon gave his citizens a referendum.
          That’s democracy mate, nothing to do with magnanimity.

          • Truthist

            Hi McCawber,

            Agree that Cameron giving the Referendum is :

            nothing to do with magnanimity

            democratic right of the citizens

            But, when I speak of “magnanimity” above I mean it in context of ;

            Cameron is “… standing down so he’s not going to try to interfere with the implementation of the result.”

            Sorry for not clarifying that in my recent post.
            I usually am diligent to qualify accordingly.

            Congrats too on the result.
            And thank u for all ur on the ball comments that no doubt directly & indirectly influenced many voters to free UK from EU shackles.

  40. survivalist

    Irelands involvement with the EU has been a one sided pillaging, a denuding of cultural, social and economic resources and a formalised confiscating of national independence.

    The EU is an empire, harvesting it’s colonies of their resources and imposing a cultural hegemony of bureaucratic, managerial authority, a policy-making, controlling, legislative enforcing, centralised un accountable jurisdiction with regulatory powers that strangling the life out of any cultural capacity for discriminatory self-rule.

    Let me defer to C.S Lewis in his sublime description of Hell, I would say ‘Europe’.

    “I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of “Admin.” The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid “dens of crime” that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.”

    Welcome to the EU.

    As an aside the Scots population having resolved in recent months that their independence from the UK was a hindrance, resolved most recently to also remain dependent on the EU.

    The Scots make an appeal to dependence by an assumed right to express their independent preference.

    In other words the population of Scotland, we are told, wishes to have the freedom to choose that it should not have the freedom to choose?!?

    Finally, what a superb result and performance against Italy, and to get out of the group-awesome :)

    • Great post survivalist.

      Picking up on one of your points – what you seem to be saying is that the Scots have voted not just once to keep themselves under the jackboots of faraway rule, but twice.

      They’ll be going for the hattrick no matter what happens in the third referendum insofar as they’ll vote themselves out of the UK but with a view to remaining in the dictatorial EU.

      They must be the most gutless people on the planet.

      • At least the almost-as-craven Irish tried to vote against the EU a couple of times, even though they were subsequently ‘asked’ to vote again until the correct result was produced.

        • survivalist

          Certainly, the fundamental inconstancy in the Scots position reveals that the decisions were , reactionary fear based acts, I recall this was what the no to independent Scotland campaign was noted as being at that time, and it clearly worked. Disappointing.

          Irelands ‘double vote’ was a lesson learned I hope.

      • Sideshow Bob

        Adam & Survivalist,

        One of the best quotes on this idea of Empire I saw today came from RT and Vladimir Putin.

        Some eminent people in the media were trying to attach some blame in some way to European bad boy Vladimir Putin and infer I guess that the Leave side were at worst his obliging minions and at best naively playing into his hands by going and winning the referendum. The caricature I saw separately invoked by both David Cameron and ex-New Labour spin doctor Alastair Campbell was that of a comedy villain rubbing his hands together in glee at the whole Brexit shambles overjoyed that Britain and Europe was being destabilized just like he had plotted all along.

        Putin of course hadn´t opened his mouth on it publicly at any point, until yesterday. His response via RT is linked below. The highlight is:

        (excerpt)

        President Putin linked the results of the British referendum to the high concentration of power within the EU structure.

        “The percentage of mandatory decisions made by the European Parliament is larger than that of mandatory decisions made by the High Council of the USSR concerning its member-republics. This means that the powers are highly concentrated within [the administrative body of the EU],” the Russian president said.

        Link: https://www.rt.com/news/348201-putin-brexit-weak-economies/

        Don´t know how true the stat is, but knowing the EU I would find it to be a credible claim.

        Perhaps the claim could be turned into a true statistical study to show that the EU is even less democratic than the old USSR (if it is the case)?

      • Adam, the ‘Scots’ suffer from perhaps the worst post-Colonial guilt in the world. They were absolutely instrumental and integral to the British Imperial Project and their ruling class in Edinburgh lived lavish. When the British Empire unwound, the ruling class started up the old Braveheart Sassenach nonsense against the ‘English’, reverting to ancient Victim Scripts and fed these toxic memes to the largely Catholic masses in the Catholic west of Scotland. Hence the fanatical glee you hear in pubs in Glasgow when some nondescript team scores against The English. This latest meltdown by the SNP must be allowed to run it’s course before the serious, grown-up people take charge. Alastair Darling, etc.

        The Irish ruling class also used this nonsense to set Culchie against Chav, suggesting that ‘The English’ all uniformly benefited from exploiting Ireland over the centuries, that all English should be blamed for the Famine/Hunger stuff even if they were starving in an East London tenement whilst it happened. Even if those starving were offspring of Irish folk who’d fled previous melt-downs. The only difference is that most Irish people haven’t woken up, just as most Irish-Celt Scots haven’t woken up to the fact that they have as much to do with the North Britons of Edinburgh who voted #Remain as they do with the hated English.

        The Irish ruling class are indistinguishable from the British ruling class, other than that they don’t have a Royal, they have a bandit Taoseach-Warlord in charge. It’s the same game: protecting Capital Formation & Accumulation from predation by inheritance taxes on death. The most absurd extreme is the Crown but there’s plenty of aristocrats posing as Culchie serfs in Ireland who are up to the same game. In Ireland they throw out the 1916 stuff to the masses, instead of the Braveheart fantasy. But they’re both used to make sure that the local lumpen never wake up and realise they are being fleeced by those who claim to be their kin. What’s extraordinary about The Great British Chav Uprising of 2016 is that those tactics no longer work with The English as the astonishing decision to #Leave the Soviet EU has proven.

        There’s a lot of nonsense on this thread in the last few hours about Peter Sullivan, fluffer to elites extraordinaire. He’s your version of Peter Mandelson but not as sleveen. He is currently trying to thwart #IRExit by positing some crazy idea that Ireland Inc is in charge and can call the shots to the island of Britain. Good luck with that, Paddy!

        Here’s what’s far more likely to happen. Any attempt by the EU to fc-UK with the UK will be met with crippling taxes on the ‘land bridge’ to the Common Market. I guess the Irish can send it all by ship from Dublin to Rotterdam…

        And it’s baffling to me to read the Irish chattersphere but not to encounter a serious analysis of what the Brits are most likely ready to put on the negotiating table when a drunken Juncker tells Enda to stop the orgy stuff and go and tell Michael Gove that Ireland is in charge. Be in no doubt whatsoever that this Plan B is fully ready, even as David McWilliams writes an article today noting with incredulity that Enda & Co don’t have a Plan B for Brexit.

        Did they have a Plan A? Beyond coming over here to the Shire and getting pissed, snorting cocaine and shagging whores at Cheltenham with their Brit ‘accomplices’ who were wired for sound and vision back to GCHQ up the road with me monitoring it all in The Rotunda pub.

        Or did any of ye seriously think that the parallel respectable wining and dining the metropolitan elite #IrishInBritain was going to yield results? That a load of special snowflake SJW’s and earnest MBA types with middle-class careers run the show over here? That turning up at a GAA game in Hendon was *appropriate*?

        If anyone from the Irish Establishment had met me for a pint in The Spotted Dog in Digbeth on the night the Brits won the Six Nations rugby I’d have introduced them to the real movers and shakers, the real ‘thought-leaders’ who would have told them this:

        Beyond the hopelessly lost AVFC/Celtic plastic paddies, most 2nd generation Brummie Irish can easily handle the cognitive dissonance of having love for their ancestral culture and actin g strategically in their own interests. The bi-racial ‘chavs’ in Celtic shirts on ‘Benefits Street’ in Winson Green, Birmingham can multi-task. They can singalonga Fields of Athenry whilst watching the cultural appropriation of Association Football by the Irish, then switch to smoking copius weed whilst doing the Yardie voguing in The Kerryman. Then, when they get a chance to stick it to the PC overlord class of Jobcentre tyrants, social workers and smug politicians who have fucked Birmingham over they know what to do: Vote Leave, which they did, despite the desperate elite’s hope that Birmingham had become another satellite city of the elite like Bristol and Leeds. That’s why HS2 is a given to Brum’s shiny new Grand Central Station, to try and gentrify the outlaw Saxon Metropolis. Good luck with that one!

        But the entire wider Mercia Middle-Class also told Cameron to drop dead and it was us wot won it, alongside the Yorkshire Posse who also did..not…give..a..fc-uk. Nor did the well-paid Nissan slaves in Sunderland who gave their middle-class management a textbook ‘feedback’ to show they may be compliant whilst on The Track but when they get in the voting booth….

        It is, possibly, the most extraordinary event of the C21st. And it’s only just begun.

        And you all *might* do well to pause and reflect on the following article before trying to pull a gun to start an Economic War on The English-Welsh Populist Revolution:

        “Who do you think you are kidding Mr Juncker?
        If you think we’re on the run
        We are the boys who will stop your little game
        We are the boys who will make you think again
        ‘Cos who do you think you are kidding Mr Juncker
        If you think old England’s done
        Mr. Mooney goes off to town on the 8.21
        But he comes home each evening and he’s ready with his gun
        So watch out Mr. Hitler, You have met your match in us
        If you think you can crush us, We’re afraid you’ve missed the bus
        ‘Cos who do you think you are kidding Mr. Juncker?
        If you think old England’s done”

        #Swexit #Danexit #Norvexit #Finexit #Icexit #Brexit:combined GDP-nearly £3trillion #IslesOfWonder #IRExit ?

        ‘Brexit EARTHQUAKE’: EU fatcats’ fears as Swedish MEP suggests ‘UK-Nordic trading bloc’

        The Brits will burn it all down before they submit to foreign tyranny. You want it? Bring it!

        http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/681210/Brussels-fatcats-not-laughing-anymore-special-report-Marco-Giannangeli

          • LOL! I’m watching Adele at Glastonbury but I ain’t feeling it babe! She’s yakking too much. Just sing, baby…sing!

            I was referencing your speculations about Enda’s Viagra antics in Brussels next week. I live 18 miles from Cheltenham Races & every single year you see that carry on.

            Got your email comment on Ethereum/Dao but it ain’t showed up here. Pissed off I didn’t get to chill with you on the beaches of Antigua for a few weeks to go through all this in detail..it’s all fascinating: Cryptocurrencies-Internet Of Things-Robotics and yet, our politicians are still droning on about a word that’s already vanished. Gotta go, Adele’s singing ‘Set Fire To The Rain’, time for some singalong to my favourite song about love and marriage/horse and carriage, etc.

        • StephenKenny

          Some people currently residing in the UK might set fire to one or two smallish, low value, items, but only after a very careful consultation with the local health and safety unit, and taking part in a round table seminar on the subsequent risk analysis, led by an elite community engagement facilitator.

          Since the mid 1990s, something 12% of UK’s annual GDP was accounted for by the annual rise in combined government and consumer debt. This is something like 4 times its annual growth. Every year, for twenty years.

          ‘Old England’ died long ago, replaced by an impenetrable layer of politically motivated technocrats.
          Would Old England ever have executed the huge social cleansing policies, now so popular with the Labour and Conservative political classes?

          It was ‘Old England’ that put in place the anti-slum legislation, swept away, with such universal media enthusiasm, by the recent Labour and Conservative governments.

          Would ‘Old England’ have poured such a non-stop, viscous, and poisonous bile, on something like 30% of it’s population, merely for disagreeing with them. To the point that it’s absolutely accepted wisdom that anyone, from any country, with any background, with any level or not of education, is of infinitely more benefit to the UK that the same 30% who’ve had the benefit of a minimum of 10 years of the world’s ‘Gold Standard’ education system.

          It’s likely that there’d be overwhelming support for Angela Merkel, or for Hillary Clinton, if either one took over the running of the UK.

      • Neither #Sturgeonexit from the UK #SturgeonEU ain’t gonna happen on her bat-sh*t crazy, hissy fit terms. She’s just had her first “OMG! *facepalm* thank you-drop dead” diplomatic response from Adolf Juncker who briefly paused in the corridors of power to speak to this annoying dwarfish woman from a remote province of Empire. I’m laughing so much I can hardly breathe. “Gold, Jerry! It’s GOLD!”

        “NON! EU slaps down Sturgeon: SNP leader dramatically announces she wants ‘immediate discussions’ to STAY in EU… but she is humiliated as Brussels says ‘No, that’s not how it works”

        http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3660320/NON-EU-slaps-Sturgeon-SNP-leader-dramatically-announces-wants-immediate-discussions-STAY-EU-humiliated-Brussels-says-No-s-not-works.html

        • Deco

          Can we have a referendum on avoiding being in a political union with Nicola Sturgeon ?

          The main feature of her first-ministership in Holyrood is debt accumulation, and dishonesty.

          She demands respect for one result, and gives no respect to another result – because that does not suit here.

          Such hypocrisy makes her ideal for the EU Commision.

          She might be aspiring to a big job in Brussels. She can get on the same team as Phil “Irish Water” “housing crisis” Hogan.

          If Rajoy wins today in Spain she will be told no. If Rajoy loses the Euro will go into anoher crisis, and there will be no money in Brussels to pay for her high spending rule.

          She seems to have talked herself up a cul-de-sac, in a mad rush.

          For entertainment I suggest you try to view David Dimbleby’s question time in Glasgow in 2010. Glaswegian Hugh Hendry takes her apart and makes her look like a fool.

        • StephenKenny

          It seems that a strongly pro EU journalist asked an ‘unnamed EU civil servant’, who responded that the UK would have to leave as a whole unit, because that’s what ‘Article 50′ seems to imply.

          Of course, it’s all nonsense. This is a purely political question, and, as we’ve seen over the past 25 years, constitutions, laws, regulations, and so on, aren’t worth the paper they’re written on, and are simply ignored if they’re inconvenient.

          ‘Laws are for little people’ has probably not been more true since the 18th Century.

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