March 3, 2016

The three most pressing issues that will top new government's to-do list

Posted in Irish Independent · 84 comments ·

No matter who forms the next government, three major external issues are likely to dictate the economic agenda for the next few years. All these issues challenge Irish conventional wisdom and they will be difficult to tackle.

The political in-tray is full.

Unfortunately, the ability of Irish policymakers to question conventional wisdom is not something you would bet on.

Let’s deal with each challenge in turn. First, we will see a dramatic change in our relations with the EU. At its most basic, the point is that no Irish policymaker seriously imagined being in a union with Germany and France, never mind Italy or Spain, without Britain.

The working assumption was always that Britain would join the euro, but that didn’t work out, leaving Ireland in the ridiculous position of using a German currency but remaining firmly in an Anglo – or, at least, Anglo/American – economic cycle. This inappropriate currency arrangement has resulted in massive economic instability. In the 15 years of using the euro, Ireland experienced a massive boom and a massive bust, the polar opposite to stability.

If the British leave the EU, Ireland can’t allow itself to be bullied by the rest of the EU in the EU’s consequent dealing with Britain. If the EU reacts to a ‘British Out’ vote by imposing trade or investment barriers with Britain or barriers to the free movement of people with Britain, we will simply have to veto these moves or negotiate an opt-out.

It is not feasible that we treat our biggest trading partner in the same way as Lithuania or Poland might treat the UK. Ireland and Britain are intertwined, with a land border and a shared island. It is not feasible for us to go along with continental reactions to a ‘British Out’ if those reactions are not in our national interest. If the EU gets vindictive, Ireland will have to get assertive. Whether we like it our not, Ireland’s national interest regarding Brexit is not the same as Italy’s or Spain’s, never mind Poland’s or Germany’s.

Our national interest is a special relationship with the UK; end of story. That’s the first piece of realpolitik our 1916 celebrants will have to digest.

The second bit is that without the UK, the very character of the EU will change. The flexible, Anglo/American arguments, which were made by the UK, will fade. The UK did much of the heavy lifting on behalf of corporate Ireland when it came to the EU.

This influence could well be gone by July. It will imply that we will have to adopt a more muscular approach within the EU and find new allies.

The third aspect of our relationship with the EU that will change is if the UK goes, the reaction of the main EU players will be more, not less, integration.

This isn’t good for us. It will come at a time when the entire IDA and, to an extent, Enterprise Ireland, strategy has never been more America- focused. The biggest and most conspicuous casualty of a new, more integrationist EU will be our corporation tax rate. There is simply no way the EU will accept that Ireland deploys what it sees as “beggar-my-neighbour” tax tactics when the EU is seeking closer political and economic union.

Tax harmonisation will be the order of the day. When the British were on side, they argued for tax harmonisation but “downward tax harmonisation” where the lowest jurisdiction was the target. With France calling the shots, the target will clearly be upward harmonisation – a totally different ballgame.

Another change that would result from a Brexit depends on what the UK is likely to do once it leaves the EU. It is likely to compete more aggressively for inward corporate investment. It will offer packages that are similar or even better to Ireland’s. This will mean that just when we are coming under bureaucratic EU pressure to raise our taxes and make the place less attractive, the British will be lowering taxes and making the UK more attractive.

Ireland’s only way of surviving this assault would be to side with the EU in vindictive trade restrictions against Britain in an effort to make being inside the EU, with access to its markets, a marketing/industrial selling point.

But this would immediately mean clobbering the €1bn euro a week trade we currently do with the UK and all the jobs, prosperity and wealth that goes with it.

The implication is that to protect the multinationals, Ireland would have to endanger the domestic economy. Not pretty.

Any sort of EU restriction with trade, the movement of people or the free movement of capital with the UK will have to be challenged by the new Irish government.

If there is a hint of any barriers, we will have to opt out and the more we opt out the more semi-detached we would become.

That’s absolutely fine with me because I believe the EU is a legacy project that has lost any real meaning or focus.

However, that’s not the way the people who run Ireland see things. At the top of our civil service, the judiciary, the media, corporate Ireland and the political class, there is a virulent, unthinking strain of Europhilia.

All things European are seen as good, progressive and self-evidently positive. When views like this become so ubiquitous they morph into self-evident truths.

History tells us that views can become entrenched and if enough people – particularly those who describe themselves as ‘serious people’ – believe them, they become ‘conventional wisdom’.

Once ideas become conventional wisdom, they are hard to shift. Conventional people (who like to think of themselves as serious people, not frivolous people) find it difficult to admit that they might be wrong. We see this stubborn behaviour at the top of many organisations because conventional people tend to promote those who have the same views as themselves and this reinforces the conventional wisdom.

In time, only ‘cranks’ question the conventional wisdom and this is how intellectual conformity solidifies in the commanding height of society, leading yet again to “groupthink”.

Watch the Irish establishment uncover proof at every turn in the next few months.

  1. Hoggie

    Irish politicians have neither the balls nor the backbone to stand up to Europe. They will roll over every time and do what they are told. When Merkel says jump Enda says how high.

    • Nor the brains either.

      Subscribe. Banging out the articles at the moment David.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Also, they were the first to join Germany to bully Greece. While I think that most of Greece’s troubles was self-inflicted, the result of this was that Ireland is now totally irrelevant in terms of negotiating the new balance of power – despite all this talk about the special Anglo-Irish relations (which is true, of course), Mr David Cameron has skipped Dublin in negotiating his new deal for Britain – he visited Warsaw first, then Berlin (and despite all the friendly talk, in an interview for a Polish TV Mr Farage did not name Ireland as a potential ally).

      Like Poland, Ireland does not fully use the power of her diaspora.
      To see this happening

      means that the influence of the Irish diaspora in the US has been diminishing (can you imagine that someone accused the Jews of furthering their agenda in Hollywood?).

      By not giving the Irish abroad the right to vote, the government makes them even less involved in Irish politics.

      “If the EU reacts to a ‘British Out’ vote by imposing trade or investment barriers with Britain or barriers to the free movement of people with Britain, we will simply have to veto these moves or negotiate an opt-out.”

      Absolutely (though I would have thought that CTA, which predates EEA, would settle that?). Or leave the EU. Or reform the EU so that it is more like EFTA.

      Here the Irish politicians made a particularly grave mistake by being German “cute hoors” (and I have publicly warned about it) – by siding with Germany on virtually every issue apart from the corporation tax, Ireland will now find little sympathy in Europe to keep her intransparent corporation tax laws – and make no mistake, Mr Donald Trump as a President will do away with that with one stroke of his pen).

      • Truthist

        You have it wrong about Germany being a political power ;
        Even in E.U..
        Germany is an occupied country since WW2, & its ostensible political moves are directed by its masters ;
        The masters are not any 1 actual country ;
        Well, they include a few select countries ;
        Let us not forget that the E.U. is part of a grand project to swallow up Europe politically into a world government.
        The vetting of the Irish Budget by the Bundestag is forced on Ireland, & Germany also, by the masters so as to familiarize Ireland with the fact that it is not a sovereign country & to cause friction between the 2 countries ; Divide & Conquer.
        Merkel is a puppet of the hidden world government.
        Any leader of most western countries today is almost surely a similar puppet.
        Germany would be taking instructions from the likes of the Trilateral Commission et all.
        And just to complete the circle ; Peter Sutherland from Ireland [ as if that is where his sentiment is ] is a top honcho of the Trilateral Commission.
        And, Goldman Sucks too.

        • Basically correct. I agree.

          ” Let us not forget that the E.U. is part of a grand project to swallow up Europe politically into a world government.”

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          “Germany is an occupied country since WW2, & its ostensible political moves are directed by its masters”

          True, Germany is subject to things like (imprecisely called) Kanzlerakte, etc, but it has made serious efforts towards regaining sovereignty. Bear in mind that Germany is the only country of which Tribunal in Karlsruhe can reject a law following from the Lisbon Treaty if that law contravenes the Grundgesetz (so called organic acts, passed while discussing the Lisbon Treaty in Bundestag).

    • McCawber

      Hoggie we had a GE recently Enda won’t be jumping for anyone.
      In fact Merkel now has a huge problem with getting Ireland to do anything because she doesn’t know whose ass ti whip.
      And she’d want to be a bit more careful.
      She’ll certainly keep the whip out of sight until the after the Brexit vote has taken place.

    • Deco

      The behaviour of the Irish political establishment towards Greece is iin now way representative of the attitude of the Irish people.

      Greece should be allowed to leave both the EU and the Eurozone.

      Greece under current arrangements is in perpetual serfdom.

  2. vernonwg

    vernonwg Senior civil servants and senior union officials benefit so much from the EU bureaucracy that the democratic will of the people in Ireland will always be subsumed to the best interests of the the ruling class, senior civil servants. Commonsense is prisoner to vested interests.

  3. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    “Ireland’s national interest regarding Brexit is not the same as Italy’s or Spain’s, never mind Poland’s or Germany’s”

    Ireland’s national interest (common interest with Poland and Britain):

    1. Tax harmonisation downward
    2. Deregulation
    3. Changing the balance of power in the EU from Germany-France to Vysehrad Group – Britain Scandinavia
    4. Cheap energy – improved competitiveness of the Irish economy – preventing German-Russian initiatives like Nordstream 2 aimed to bring to cost of energy up
    5. Joining AIIB (following Britain) to be part of Silk Road 2.0
    6. Anti-terrorism and stopping the Muslim invasion coming in spring (both Ireland and Poland are on ISIS’s hit-list – long are gone the times of the “Muslim friendly” Irish passport

    Ireland’s opposite interest with Poland:

    1. American NATO bases (Ireland does not have Russian nuclear weapons at her borders). It’s probably better for Ireland to have a strong army but stay neutral, outside of NATO
    2. Competition for manufacturing

    Ireland and Poland’s opposite interest with the US and the UK: both the UK and the US (particularly the US) accused Ireland of tax dumping. A “Polish illegal immigrant” and the “Irish illegal immigrant” appeared in the Republican US campaign.

    Ireland’s and Poland’s opposite interest with Germany: under German dominance, Ireland and Poland service Germany’s goods rather than produce their own goods they can export (Irish export driven by multinationals). Irish manufacturing lowest for 2 years, while the Visegrád Group is the biggest importer of German goods (which no Irish or German newspaper have noticed – according to the latest OEC data 8.56% of German exports go to those four countries, compared to 8.2% to the US).

    It basically means that huge public debts of peripheral countries – such as Ireland or the Visegrád Group – have to be compensated by huge surpluses in their private sectors. As this is not the case, the surpluses have to be in private sectors of foreign countries – in Ireland’s case Germany. This explains why Ireland imports 9.2pc of its goods from Germany (the UK being the primary source of Irish imports – 34%) – while not only the UK, but even small Belgium is a bigger market for Irish exports than Germany

    P.S. Common interest of Irish, British and Polish consumers – scrapping CAP (cheaper food prices = better competitiveness = less indebted society).

  4. Colm MacDonncha

    The Refugee Crisis is going to put an end to the open borders of Europe, the Schengen visa arrangement and eventually the EU.There is no amount of Civil Service pigheadedness going to stop this happening, and the sooner the gombeen men who are still allowed to run this little island accept that,without the UK as our main trading, and eventually defense partner, Ireland will cease to exist as we know it. The Euro is banjaxed,and it is only a matter of time before the Quantitative Easing life support machine is unplugged.


    Hopefully the migration crisis will get worse over the coming months and a narrow margin votes in favour of the UK leaving the EU. The irish Labour party and the irish Times will be left spluttering. Sinn fein want the Brits to stay in; as good a reason as any to leave. Sterling drops futher , Irish economy goes into a tailspin ( again).

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej


      It will get worse, but I am not sure if we should wish for it (on the lines worse is better because it helps to bring down the system), even if this resulted in Britain leaving the EU. The Trotskyite’s came up with that kind of strategy (later transformed into a “transitional program”), and one thing they achieved was that things did get much worse.

      Even if Adam is right that there will never be a Sharia law in Ireland, terror attacks are not out of question (hmm, come to think of that, so maybe it’s better for Ireland to be geo-politicaly irrelevant? – no terror attacks in Greenland).

      If Mr Donald Tusk says this:

      (I always quote the censored Guardian if I can on the lines “if even t h e y write about it…”).

      and he has been basically financed by the Germans since the early 90s, being someone like the Polish version of Lord Haw Haw, then I do not know how bad things must be (unless he converted) – btw, may ask His Excellency Donald Tusk why he invited them to Poland in first place?).

      Btw, I do not think that Britain leaving the EU is either in Irish or Polish interest (or actually anyone’s interest apart from Germany, Austria, Benelux and France – and Russia) – I do not believe it will happen anyway.

      Why it is not in our interest?

      Well, it’s very simple – if Britain leaves, Ireland stays, as there is no Eurosceptic party in Ireland.

      Also, bear in mind that despite all that talk about special Anglo-Irish relations, ALL IRISH MEPs ARE ALLIED WITH GERMANY AGAINST THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT in the EU Parliament, so frankly, this sort of kicks the bottom out of David’s articles – unless he writes not about what it is, but what it should be (the current ruling party in Poland are the biggest allies of Britain in the EU Parliament).

      My point?

      Building a new party takes years and tons of money.

      There is no Eurosceptic party in Ireland, so if Britain leaves, Ireland stays, it’s as simple as that – and let’s Germany to outsource the risk of their CDO’s and mortgages backed securities of their banks to countries like Ireland (why not, the Irish government is more than happy to pay for the losses of German banks) or Poland.

      Blogging won’t change that.

      It did not have to be like that. In the 90s Ireland was a countries the Eastern and Central European countries tried to emulate.


      As far as I know, it has not even joined the AIIB like Britain did (they have been discussing it). And it still believes that the best way to kick start the economy is to inflate the property bubble servicing German trade surpluses.

      • Deco

        I doubt that Ming Flanagan is allied with Merkel against the British. Ming does his own thinking.

        I do not trust anything SF have to say. A criminal enterprise with a political ‘movement’ attached, wherein the members of political wing also happen to publicly mistrust enterprise. You could not get anything more ridiculous than that, in politics anywhere. Or more corrupt either.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          If we look at the Alliance of European Conservatives and Reformists (so those who, i.e., want to reform or abolish CAP) – the group led by the current British government party – there are MEPs in that group from countries ranging from Bulgaria, Greece, Finland, Lithuania, Poland (the Polish group is headed by former Marshal of the Parliament, Mr Marek Jurek, a Hibernophile, who had said in his interviews in the late 90s that he wanted to emulate Ireland), Germany even (AfD, ALFA and FAMILIE), and others, and the UK of course – and many others. From Ireland there is only one Mr Brian Crowley, who has been excluded from Fianna Fáil cross-Parliamentary caucus as a result).

          If we look at Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (led by UKiP, a group which was actually created thanks to the support of Mr Janusz Korwin-Mikke, who has “lent” “his” MEP), there are no Irish MEPs at all.

          So there are two most reformist and Eurosceptic groups led by the British with 1 Irish MEP in one and 0 in the other.

          Now, David writes that

          “Ireland’s national interest regarding Brexit is not the same as Italy’s or Spain’s, never mind Poland’s or Germany’”

          First of all, no one in Irish politics has really attempted to define Ireland’s national interest (not even Sinn Féin, who is btw not pro-life – is it in Ireland’s national interest to kill Ireland’s citizens?), and even if someone did (Coldblow often quotes a highly interesting thinker one Mr Crotty), no one has acted on it.

          Secondly, I am not sure how well David knows the history of British diplomacy (I gather from his books that he has a superb knowledge of the history of Irish diaspora, and other things historians usually do not research), but I happen to know it quite well (I am also friends with once quite influential member of the Conservatives and have even done some research for a British Conservative MEP in the 90s) – I wish someone wrote a book on how Britain cooked up many uprisings in Europe and how it had manoeuvered Poland into WWII, hiding vital information from the Poles and not honouring her military agreement – I do not even mention other continents) to re-direct the first assault of the Third Reich – until early 1939, Hitler still hoped he would go with Poland) and all that history teaches us THAT THE BRITISH ARE NOT DRIVEN BY SENTIMENTS OR GEOGRAPHICAL PROXIMITY IN THEIR FOREIGN POLICY – I would say even much less than the Germans.

          It was the Viscount Palmerston, who said in an answer to a question from a member of Parliament, the late Prime Minister of Great Britain, “Great Britain has no friends, only interests.”

          So the question is – do the British see Ireland as a crucial partner from their national interest point of view?

          And the answer is – sadly no (sadly because I am a bit of an Anglophile).

          They cannot rely on Ireland in the EU Parliament.

          They cannot rely on Ireland in NATO.

          They could not rely on Ireland in WWII.

          They cannot rely on Ireland in reforming CAP.

          Their current policy is anti-Russian, Ireland’s is pro-German – and German policies (though not current) tend to be historically pro-Russian (they invaded Poland allied with Russia on Russian petrol for Christ’s sake – furthermore, very few people know that even in September 1939 Hitler was still toying with an idea of a rump Polish state – it was STALIN who stopped him).

          Ireland is currently a soft underbelly in the British defense system and, for that purpose, a liability rather than an asset.

          In fairness, one has to be said that Ireland has been upgrading its missiles (the RBS70), apart from acquiring – after 9/11 – 12 radar-guided AA guns capable of shooting planes within 50 miles (used in last year’s exercises in Grangegorman), but the RBS70, though sufficient for helicopters and passenger or cargo jets (in 1992 Venezuela used it to shoot down OV-10 Bronco), can only engage targets visually and the Irish army does not have enough target acquisition and tracking radar to use it its full potential – as a result the fact that TU-95 Russian bombers are not violating the Irish airspace (which was done a couple of times and which has even put Irish lives in danger):

          did not come back was only thanks to Britain signing a breakthrough agreement with Ireland on defense and co-operation (this agreement will provide the Irish Army the British army surplus equipment free of charge), so it had to British Typhoon fighter that stopped that (for the time being) from happening.

          I agree with the spirit of David’s article (and I love David’s imaginary, humorous at times use of words), but for his standards, it has been rather badly researched and surprisingly shallow in its analysis. Not only it has skipped David’s attention that, contrary to what he claims,

          “Whether we like it our not, Ireland’s national interest regarding Brexit is not the same as Italy’s or Spain’s, never mind Poland’s or Germany’s”

          Ireland’s national interest (in the EU) is actually closer to Polish interest than Italy, Spain or Germany’s – 3 anti-reformist countries (and for reasons stated by me above in points) – btw, it is France at the moment which wants Britain out and Poland wants Britain in, that Poland’s national interest is, at the moment, opposite to Germany’s national interest (and until last October, Poland has simply furthered Germany’s interest via German agents of influence in Poland) – and German interest is opposite to Ireland’s interest, but he did not consider that the British THEMSELVES do not see Ireland’s national interest as their national interest, and that if Ireland could retain her low corporation tax thanks to Britain’s EU position, it was purely accidental – the UK parliament’s Public Accounts Committee accused Ireland of “devious” use of her corporate tax regulations to reduce tax bills of companies in Britain.

          Britain wants to retain Common Travel Area with Iraland and both countries are in favour of rather low regulations, but this is how much the national interests of these two countries cross (so Britain’s national interest have actually much more in common with Polish or Lithuanian interest, which countries want both of the above plus many more).

          So discussing only immigration and not noticing all other things that should be reformed in the EU or the EU project will not have any meaning indeed is like planning on marrying a man and only thinking of whether we should let him in to our house this weekend, without thinking of all other aspects of marriage and one’s own socio-economic circumstances. Some of those one-aspect people end up in unhappy marriages, other end up as spinsters. Ireland is now like a cute girl which has given it to a German Hans for free, once it has served her purpose, she is no longer needed by Hans and it is now on her path to become a spinster, indebted, sidelined from Chinese Silk Road 2.0, at the mercy of British air defense, being a bad guy in the US Presidential campaign, fast growing its economy into an another crash.

          This is not a fault of the Irish as people – this is the fault of the Irish political system as it is and media oligopolies.

          It’s not to late to change it, but some politicians or columnists would have to start serious thinking, and it cannot be done by me, as establishing new political parties and creating independent media can only be done by the Irish, for the Irish and in Ireland’s interest as a state, with geopolitics considered.

          Otherwise, do not be surprised if the next Irish budget will also be discussed in Bundestag.

  6. E. Kavanagh

    I can’t really see how the Brits being in or out of the EU is going to make any difference to us. It may make a difference to the Continentals, in that they probably wouldn’t maintain the right to free movement, but I would be surprised if the Irish were excluded also. We’ve had pretty much unrestricted access regardless of whether we were bombing or entertaining them.

    In terms of trade, the current norm is to have open borders and fewer restrictions whether it be through the EU or any other international body. I don’t see how that would change, or why anyone would want it to change.

    While we don’t want to burn economic bridges with the UK, we engage in more trade with the Continentals than we do with the UK and US combined (50% versus 30%). And Continental exports are over 3-times what we export to the UK. We export the same amount to Belgium and Luxembourg as we do to the UK; and Germany and France combined is also about the same as the UK.

    This whole narrative that David has been peddling that we are in some kind of Anglo-centric combine is nonsense. It is really kind of a tripod: Europe (50%); Anglo-trade (33%); and the rest (17%).

    I am not a Europhile, and I agree that the Europeans treated us extremely shoddily in recent years; but 50% of our bread is buttered by them, compared to only 14% by the Brits.

    • I agree Mr Kavanagh, euro area is main trading partner. A lot of UK trade is imports. Anyway, the EU is not just about trade, and hopefully the UK which is part of Europe will not stick its fingers up at the EU and remain. I agree with your tripod: interesting balance, good for Ireland to leverage relationships from within EU. I wish people would focus more on fixing the EU which I agree with David has lost its balance and focus, rather than doing a runner when the chips are down. Let’s not forget, we’ve had Europe with Borders, and it was destroyed by invasion and war. Much worse than the EU.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Interesting comment, interesting take.

      My major counter-argument is that this arguments reminds of what I had read in one of Polish newspapers last months, something like “this government is crazy to form an alliance with Great Britain, with which it has only 6pc of trade, sacrificing diplomatic relations with Germany, with which it has more than 30pc of trade”.

      That would make perfect sense… except the author of that article did not ask himself who is winning on who is losing on that trade? If Poland has 30pc of trade and it is losing jobs on that trade (the trade deficit with Germany amounts to 2 million jobs – so if Poland left or was thrown out of the EU, well, it would just buy cheaper goods from other countries – the same cannot be said about Germany losing 2,000,000 jobs).

      So, first of all, Ireland has as much trade with the UK as with Germany+France. Who is the main importer of Irish goods? Germany imports from Ireland only half of that what Belgium does (according to CSO), and same as Switzerland. It means (for exports that is) that even leaving the EU completely and being only in EFTA (or better still, making the whole EU like EFTA) would present a smaller loss for Ireland than even Germany closing itself completely.

      Secondly, of course exports is not all, and there are many other benefits of staying in the EU – but there are also costs (which, for some reason, wikipedia does not include in their articles – Open Europe does). Basically each subsidy generates costs, distorts allocation of resources, brings up costs and runs countries into debt (this is how Greece went bust). People of Ireland are strangely happy to pay 2 euro for a loaf of bread to support CAP, while without CAP they could easily pay 50 cent.

      Basically the EU subsidies structures consists of cheeky and loud, and well organised lobbies, exploiting the rest of consumers. For those caring about the Third World, it f…s up their economies too – so it a loss-loss arrangement.

      The vast majority of the EU legislation is written by them.

      And then there are small things like fishery. Contrary to a popular view, Ireland is not that bad in terms of quotas (though it is not on top either) – for example in 2010 Ireland had a 60% share with at 260,000 tonnes and Norway (outside the EU) had 135,000, but it has been heavily penalised for exceeding quota limits – Mr Lorcan O’Cinnede, of the Irish Fish Producers Organisation claims, quoting EU figures, that the average fine in Finland was 282 (Scandinavian countries, and of course Germany, are also privileged in quotas on the Baltic Sea), in Portugal 588, and in Spain 3,202. The Irish fishermen, were being hit with fines averaging up to 25,000 euro.

      It’s time someone did a calculation of all of that, but no one did. David, hot potato, catch :-)

  7. cooldude

    Mervyn King, former head of the BOE, openly states the the depression in Europe was DELIBERATELY created by the ECB and the Euro elites to force more political union on the peripheral states and further progress the concept of “Empire Europe”.

    WE have to be clear about this it wasn’t a case of “we all partied too much” as Edna stated it was a deliberate policy of low interest rates and easy liquidity to fuel asset booms and wreck economys. Time to wake up to this Euro nightmare. It really is turning into a hotel california where you can check out any time you like but you can never leave. Expect loads of money from the EU to help “persuade” the Brits to stay. If they vote to leave they will do their famous sorry wrong verdict please vote again trick same as here.

    This is all about further centralization of power and loss of national and personal sovereignty to the banksters and the corporations they control. Wakey wakey.

    • McCawber

      I think we need a serious discussion on “Free Will”
      I chose, like some, not to party to excess and survived reasonably ok. Put another I behave prudently and saved for the sh!tty day the manure hit the fan.
      Sure my standard of living took a hit but this was due to the partying of others.
      My point is basically I told the ECB et al that I wasn’t interested in joining their party.
      Others made a different choice and are still suffering the consequences.
      NOBODY FORCED ANYONE TO PARTY and nearly everyone partied including Social Welfare recipients (despite their claim to the contrary).
      The only group I have sympathy for is the first time buyers who were to a large extent suckered into the whole negative equity ponzi scheme.
      Until we get over this national epidemic of denial and face up to reality, the ECB will keep on controlling us.

      • cooldude

        Good for you. Unfortunately hundreds of thousands of young Irish people followed ALL the perceived wisdom of the time and got on the property snake and ladder. These were people who just wanted to house their families and due to the totally out of sync ECB interest rate policies they paid over the odds for their HOMES.

        These people are still being turfed out on the street although this is never covered in our lamestream media. Try not to be so smug and read the actual article and hear what this banker has to say. It was all deliberate and was enacted throughout the Empire.

        Just because you had the brains to see through this huge asset bubble is no reason to not recognize it was deliberate, as is now openly acknowledged by Mervyn King, or to gloat over the young families who are being chucked out of their homes for following their dreams.

        Try not to be so smug.

    • Daily Bell quote “But admitting that central banking itself is as much of a “hustle” as the euro is beyond King. He goes from truth-telling to lying. No one in his business can tell the truth, which is that central banking is one of the biggest lies of our time.”

  8. Interesting. Very interesting.!!

  9. Bid banks and the justice system team with politicians to allow the team players to get away with a slap on the wrist after committing fraudulent crimes. The rest of us do the time for committing the crime.

  10. posted at lemetropolecafe


    Final Irish election results leave country in political limbo: AFP cited the final results from the Irish elections held last week which showed the outgoing coalition came first but fell far short of a governing majority. The story highlighted that acting PM Kenny’s Fine Gael party won 50 out of 158 parliamentary seats, followed by Fianna Fail with 44 seats and Sinn Fein with 23 seats. Fine Gael’s Labour partner in the outgoing coalition won just seven seats, just ahead a grouping called the Anti-Austerity Alliance- People Before Profit which won six seats in the parliament. AFP cited analysts who noted that the two most likely scenarios now are an unprecedented alliance between old rivals Fine Gael and Fianna Fail or a new election.


    “The hierarchy of global currencies remains Gold/USD/Euro/Yen, but as noted above just because the dollar is better than the others doesn’t change the fact that its value is being actively debauched by Janet Yellen and her colleagues. We are also seeing the British pound get pounded (sorry) to under $1.40 as investors fret about a possible Brexit. This publication is read by people around the world and my closing advice applies to citizens in any country with a central bank: buy gold and save yourself!”

    Not as pressing an issue as the three provided above.!!

    • McCawber

      Tony -Don’t close up shop on the advice.
      It’s important for us to get a reminder from to time.
      Reassessment of one’s situation is an ongoing activity or should be.

      • No opportunities abound but it is foolish to ignore reality.
        The historical account will appear to indicate a rapid movement but on the ground in real time here and now the changes appear glacial.

        One man’s lifetime is the historians fleeting second.

  12. Pat Flannery

    My prediction for a Brexit is that if they leave the Irish will stay and build a fence on the border with Northern Ireland to keep the British economic refugees out and make the Brits pay for it.

  13. cooldude

    Here is Egon Von Greyerz telling some truth bombs about where the $US is heading. This is important information

    • “For silver investors it looks even more interesting. The gold silver ratio seems to be topping currently at around 83. Once that turns, which could be imminently, silver will greatly outperform gold. The ratio should reach at least the 30 level which we saw in 2011 when silver reached $50. This means that silver is likely to move up twice as fast as gold, at least initially.”– EVG

      For 4 days now silver has lead gold. If this trend continues then we are on a new move up in the PM’s in US dollar terms. In Canadian dollars and Euros the move up started two years ago.

      This AM gold up .62% and silver 1.24%
      Yesterday PM mining shares were up 5% to add to the 40% up YTD.

  14. Deco

    Landmark article.

    It gets to the very essence of the comment “states have interests, first and foremost”. And Ireland has interests. Being part of Berlin’s new imperial project is not in our interests.

    Of course, we are stuck with a collection of ludramans (cannot find the fada for the last ‘a’) in FF/FG etc..

    They are no interested in Ireland’s interest. They are more interested in their own interests.

    I do not expect Taoiseach Martin to be any better at purusing Ireland’s interests than Kenny. Remember Martin was the idiot who rolled over and lied on the ground to function as a floor mat when Sarkozy ( a nasty corrupt man) showed up.

    Ireland’s establishment are very good at squirming and diving. But we have learned to never expect them to stand for anything – except the pursuit of more power and control over the populace.

    If Britain liberates itself from the EU imperial nonsense, then we should follow.

    We will be avoiding a mechanism that has repeatedly bullied and controlled our interests, to the detriment of our interests.

    • E. Kavanagh

      I think you’be accidentally noted the problem with the current political system: on the one hand you want politicians to act in Ireland interest, while at the same time you want them to act against their own interest.

      I’m not really sure how that problem can be solved.

      One also has to be careful about throwing out babies with bathwater. For much of the 20th Century Ireland was a priest ridden backward nation. In fact, I recall that a man was put in prison in the 1990′s for buggering his wife!

      I’m not sure how things would have progressed socially without the influence from more progressive nations in the EU, and without being forced to change by various European institutions (EU and otherwise). Just as the Supreme Court has forced changes on Ireland where politicians were too cowardly or unable to do so, membership of the EU has had similar results. But who knows, maybe “Dallas” and Graham Norton did more to advance Ireland than the EU ever did.

  15. Deco

    D McW is a genius in this article.

    He is telling the truth about those in power at the stop of the institutional state complex in Ireland.

    • Truthist

      More is the pity that all the voting age citizens are not allowed to vote between a pool of candidates from the immediately lower rank & outside candidates [ self-nominated "private" or "civil servant" ] as to who is in charge of each civil service department, & also each main section, & come to think of it each of the quangos, of the institutional state. Methinks, an aware electorate would vote in a liquidator for many of them ; including R.T.E.

  16. coldblow

    Excellent article, one of David’s best in a long time. The EU as a legacy project is quite a good description. I’d be more inclined to say that people here are beginning to understand what it is.

  17. mike flannelly


    ” In time, only ‘cranks’ question the conventional wisdom and this is how intellectual conformity solidifies in the commanding height of society, leading yet again to “groupthink”.

    “Sure THEY will never agree to reform”

    is the STANDARD 2016 defeatist attitude of commentators and journalists that dont really ask the CORE questions that WOULD justify reform.

    In fairness you cant expect JUSTIFICATION for anything when THEY know that commentators and journalists NEVER REALLY QUESTION ANYTHING.

    Unconstitutional contracts/ decisions are NEVER challenged.

    Dont blame THEM for thinking that they will get away with it.


    The BREXIT and General EU issues seem to be about people/citizens feeling powerless and not seeing the greater public good being served.

    Wheather its

    Greek Pensions
    Restructuring overvalued family debt
    Golden Irish Pensions
    Lots and Lots of more Irish Nurses
    Walking past a sick 92 year man

    Its all about JUSTIFICATION.

  18. StephenKenny

    “In time, only ‘cranks’ question the conventional wisdom …”

    I feeling is that we’re living in a time when rational discourse, the single greatest achievement of the enlightenment, has all but completely disappeared for the public arena.

    Looking them broadly, a better description of them is ‘childlike’. They enact according to a set of narrow, short term, targets, and they tell silly lies, with no consideration at all of consequences, or even the credibility, of their actions or of these lies. Listening to a politician, a public sector employee, a lawyer or judge, or, increasingly, senior employees of major corporations, is like listening to a child informing us that it was the cat that kicked the ball that was seen crashing through the window.

    The problem is that these people also run the media, so now ‘everyone’ seems to nod sagely when such plainly ludicrous claims are made.

    Since they also make up the education system, I fear that many even grow up believing all this nonsense. At least until, of many, reality kicks in.

    Looking the political, media, and public sector, you might say that there is a total absence of adults. The result is that we’re all getting very sick from a diet limited to sweets, cake, and fizzy drinks.

  19. coldblow

    Talking of conventional wisdom, as I mentioned on the last thread I started looking at the Jimmy Savile case last weekend. Paedophile witch hunts are a good test of the maturity of press, public and institutions. They occur regularly and have recurring characteristics, including being driven by the media (see Richard Webster’s Sceptical Essays website).

    I expected there to be, possibly, a modest kernel of truth (he was a groper and there is circumstantial evidence (but no more) that he had an illegal interest in teenage girls) I expected the fantastic evidence to be fantasy (it is). I expected allegation to be reported as fact and for the reporting to be sensational, misleading and sloppy. Here again, the countless ‘rapes’ seem to include cases where he kissed women on the lips or merely leered at them (Kerry Katona apparently was traumatized by the way he once looked at her when she walked past him). The phrase ‘young girls’ is often used to refer to the ages 5, 15 and 25 within the same article. One Guardian editorial said that being a groper was bad enough but the depravity of his other crimes was so hideous that it compared him to Pol Pot. It argued interestingly that the ‘sheer improbability’ of his crimes, which were perpetrated in broad daylight in front of millions, was perhaps a partial explanation of how he got away with it. (A better explanation, perhaps, is that they didn’t happen.) A guest on morning television said it was typical of Savile’s cunning to choose as his victims young people who had been in trouble with the law: who would believe them against Sir Jimmy Savile OBE? (Think about it. Some of these allegations came from girls from a reformatory school; the retired headmistress described many of her charges as delinquents.) On the same breakfast programme they marvelled at how Savile’s biographer had worked closely with him for six years and never suspected a thing.

    The Smith BBC report is logical but starts from the premise that ‘everyone knows’ he was guilty, so relatively banal incidents acquire a chilling frisson. The problem is that wherever you look you only find (leaving aside the obvious fraud and fantasy) circumstantial evidence which relies on the whole picture for its significance. But when you look at the other parts of the whole picture it is the same thing. Nowhere is there any convincing hard evidence.

    In these things you can never rely on what is reported but you have to check every fact. People obviously don’t do this.

    After Savile himself the big scandal is that the BBC covered up. Or that the police covered up. Or the politicians. This misses the point by a mile. Far from suppressing it they drive the witch hunts, seeing the world as a conflict between Good and Evil, looking everywhere for more guilty men. And the odd one seems to get caught up in the mill themselves, like Robespierre during the Terror. Certainly, in this respect the world has not progressed in recent years.

    • cooldude

      You really are a piece of shit. This is an economics blog and the topic is the EU.

      Here you go again with your disgusting defence of a ACKNOWLEDGED peaedophile and also necrophiliac. Saville was a bad piece of shit and you have the cheek to come onto a blog about our future government to defend this piece of shit.

      I’m sorry tou can f off. Why not stick with the article. You are a bad person.

      Here is what Saville was really like. He was well connected but he is guilty as hell.

      How can you ignore the testimony of over 150 sepeaate staements.


        • coldblow

          got cut off there

          She used to be called Alison Pink but is now called Steven George after a sex change. She said that both of her adopted parents had been paedophiles. Apparently she was in Broadmoor because she was an arsonist.

          Another woman on the same programme, treated very sympathetically by Philip Schofield and his co-presenter, was in a wheelchair and had been assaulted in Stoke Mandeville Hospital by Savile. He had kissed her on the lips (she used to follow him around as a thirteen-year old) and put his tongue down her throat. I imagine there is a bit of exaggeration but she said the memory had haunted her for the rest of her life and contributed to the breakdown of her three (I think) marriages. She was convinced there was a cover-up at the hospital about such outrageous behaviour. (Politicians should brace themselves for retrospective lawsuits for kissing babies at elections.)

          The list is dreary and endless. The credulity of the media is depressing. They show the same thousand-yard stare of concern that Lucinda did over the refugees last October.

          Tben there is the nephew of Savile’s who talked of travelling to London from his native Leeds with a group of friends when he was fifteen (although a newspaper recorded it as thirteen) and ended up being befriended by a group of ‘rockers’ who took him to a building which turned out to be the centre of a paedophile ring. The rich and famous used to go there. After a few days his uncle turned up. Amazing coincidence. He said a priest used to bring children there from an orphanage. He was being groomed to set up a similar ring in the north. I can’t remember if this is the one who said he saw Edward Heath. On and on it goes. He was, apparently, having a book ghost written for him. Do you think it will be a good book, Tony? Oh, and he went of the rails and ended up in Borstal.

          Then there are the girls from Duncroft Reformatory School. One of them had sex in Savile’s dressing room and saw Gary Glitter having sex there too and also sued Freddie Starr for assaulting her. She said (after incredibly winning a libel case taken against her by Starr, apparently on uncorroborated evidence (alarmingly this is common)) that she really only wanted to be believed. Adults never believed her when she was wrong. I wonder why. Her old headmistress said that some of the girls there were ‘delinquents’. She said (she would be well into her ninetees now if she is still alive) that Savile had ‘pawed’ her and that her own mother hated him. She never thought he was up to anything with the girls, never saw anything. Well, now that apparently he was (everyone says so) she said that she had always thought she was clever, but Savile was evidently even cleverer. (She shouldn’t be too hard on herself because Savile had super-powers that allowed him to behave outrageously in full public view without anyone seeing it. If anyone voices any doubts over his guilt just tell them that.)

          There are more stories I am sure and I hope to get round to them in due course, but I have had enough for now, Tony. Unfortunately there will always be liars in our midst, and fantasists who find it hard to string two sentences together without one of them being a lie. They are natural liars, Tony, but not *good* ones and I have known a few in my time. The most convincing was the author of a thousand voices on a well-known blog. He must have stored up his characters on Word files as he was always consistent. It’s just that he made little mistakes here and there and me, well as I said, I notice odd little things and remember them, and I challenged him. He really didn’t like that. He was better than yourself, Tony, but you should take it as a compliment.

          Thanks for the links to Chris Spivey and the Sun-online, by the way. I won’t let this colour my judgement on your specialist subjects of gold and world conspiracy.

          • coldblow

            Oops! This post should be below the one below.

          • Hi Coldblow, here’s a Savile story. Fr James Robinson and Fr Sheedy used to take me to Elland Road to watch Leeds Utd in the early 70s. Met Savile briefly but didn’t shag him. Lots more but I didn’t come here to talk about all that Misery Lit crap in W H Smith that paedos buy to crack one off to. I’m saving it for my stage-show. LOLOLOLOL! And guess what? I’m not making a single word of this up. Birmingham was a very strange place. Fr Ted as reimagined by Lars Von Trier when he realised ‘Nymphomaniac’ just wasn’t getting him the Outrage! dopamine hits. Hoping he’ll work with me, was in Denmark last year to scout it out. We’ll see.

            Jimmy Savile dressed as a Womble to rape 10-year-old boy


          • by the way, not libellous as Fr Robinson is in jail for 23 years and Fr Sheedy is dead I think. Only libel if not true. Tru dat.

          • coldblow

            Hello Andrew

            I have no reason not to believe your accounts of your own personal experience which you have alluded to here in the (now quite distant) past.

            I was thinking of the Womble story today and of course I don’t believe a word of it.

            The press reported it and referred to some quote from the Smith review mentioning a man with an earring. I can’t do a word search of it on my home computer for some reason. I’ll see if I can get time at work tomorrow.

            One thing I know for sure is that press reporting in this case is highly unreliable and you have to dig down into a story to separate fact from fiction.

          • @coldblow It’s irrelevant now if the Womble Suit Rape story is ‘true’ or not. What matters is the press now luridly print every rumour or claim because “you cannot libel the dead” yet when Savile was alive and people complained they did their 3 monkeys see/hear/speak crap as the police hushed it all up. Exact same as in Ireland with freak Xtian Brothers on the rape. Veronic Guerin was credulous to think she could just openly confront these people. I watched her demise with sadness and vowed to revenge her once the kids were raised. And that time is now. All the codes for the Doomsday Device are distributed, including those relevant to Savile so any have a go hero out there: you’d be wasting your time as I can and will strike back from 6 feet under. @coldblow It’s irrelevant whether you doubt or believe me as I only tell the truth under oath in a court of law. And then only a guarded version. That’s civil law courts, not Canon Law. I lie all the time in them as my enemies now realise as they study decades of files..LOL! Hi there everyone in Mamma Roma! Are you enjoying the warm-up to Vatileaks 2.0? Lots of mad stuff on Ireland as part of it but first let’s have that geophysical survey of the Tuam babies grave on Enda’s desk before the #1916 jollification/glorification stuff kicks off. I won’t be adding anything further to this thread as I’m both bored and also need to avoid any errors of disclosure before the curtain rises on ‘An Irish Childhood In Babylon’.

            ps: I suppose you think the Tuam graves is another hysterical mass hallucination concocted to slander the glorious 1st Irish KKKatholiKKK Blood Sacrifice RepubliKKK run by clericalist fascists and their enablers? We’ll see what the survey says, eh?


      • coldblow

        Still trying to brazen it out, Tony? You sound like the people who post on YouTube. I just read one comment there saying that ‘the ‘queen’ is a pedophile’.

        I was following the tenor of the previous post but didn’t want to restrict it as a reply. As others have noted here, over the years, one of the biggest problems is an intellectual one. These witch hunts are an interesting window into how a society thinks.

        ‘How can you ignore the testimony of over 150 separate statements.’

        Do you have a list of these statements? As I said, there is never a shortage of them when the fever grips. I have looked at a number of the allegations. One made me stop and wonder if this case really was the exception that proves the rule because she sounded so convincing. See how easy it is to be taken in? I’ve looked at lots of these cases and they are always the same, but a good liar is a good liar. Anyway, this one was his grand-niece, who claimed he fondled her when she sat on his knew when she was twelve, in a room full of people. He had, she explained, got the timing so well he could do this without anyone seeing it. I thought I’d better check out the story and wasn’t exactly astonished to learn that she had been denounced by her family, including her own daughter, who accused her of gold digging. The police were investigating her for fraud (actually doing their job for once). She admitted she had a baby when she was only fifteen.

        The next one also made me doubt myself, again because it was so convincing. This man went on Jim’ll Fix It when he was a little cub scout and said that he had been abused after the programme when he was alone in Savile’s dressing room. (The Smith ‘review’ showed that his door was always kept open, unless he was in the toilet.) He looked very young and innocent, but the witness is now a big, fat gentleman. He said on the video that a man had knocked on the door and looked in but closed it again immediately. In a later version, however, he said that the man came in and started hitting him over the head with a stool or a piece of wood I think (accuracy is important to me), for no reason, until Savile made him stop.

        Another witness was an inmate who had been in Broadmoor for eight years. Savile, again in a room full of people, had grossly molested. Again, amazingly, nobody had seen this (or they had seen it but were afraid to tell the truth). He had the keys to Broadmoor. She saw them, they were gold (of course) and could open this door and that door.

        • Truthist

          If you wish to return to public persons currently alive & more particularly the front runners for the highest political office of the Irish institutional state, you should be comforted to know that they each is a good family-man & on that aspect of things would not be compromised by any foreign foe as to Ireland’s real best interests.

        • Ha Mr coldblow.
          Maligning me again.
          I always post under my own name.
          Get off your fixation that I run a dozen aliases.

          The central bankers story is easily verified if you are inclined. The fiat money system is factually described and operates as the largest ponzi scheme known ,or in your case, unknown to man.

          There are several people on this blog with whom I have quaffed a beer. Others know Cooldude. You of course are ignorant and bluster with inuendo and supposition.

          I am not Cooldude or any other avatar.

    • LOL! TrollFAIL! I assume you’re trying to articulate Folk Devils & Moral Panics A Level Sociology theory but it’s a bit more complex than that.
      However, on a crucial level you’re right. Jimmy Savile died an innocent man in the eyes of the Law, as did all the coppers who were having a Leeds Nutter Smily Face rapey ti e riding along with him. Read his autobigraphy, he sets out very clearly that he was totally brazen because:


      Now we’ll have a vastly expensive Govt inquiry that will be a total waste of time to find out how ‘Savile groomed the nation’. Bit like that Irish Dancing IRA freak but he didn’t even get an Irish inquiry. Too many of them I suppose. No room on the calendar for all the politicos to emote earnestly about how sad they are that little kiddies got raped/get raped. Savile & Others. Who knew? Everybody! “Everybody Knows’ as Leonard Cohen sang. Savile was just taking Norman Toraigh Droit de Seignur to it’s logical limits, same as all those buggery obessed Xtian Bruvs

      • coldblow

        Andrew, is this a reply to me and are you accusing me of being a troll? Why on earth would I want to be a troll? I don’t pretend to be someone I’m not, I don’t argue ad hominem (although I admit to occasional mockery) and I don’t try to hijack a whole thread to forward a personal agenda (this thread is nearly done).

        My earlier posts were based on the evidence I have found to date. I admit there is much more but it is unlikely (although possible) that anything new will turn up to change my mind. If it does I will have to change it.

        Can you back up what you have written here? Please don’t introduce other things or your own personal experience unless it backs it up.

  20. Right, so. Didn’t come here to swim in the Savile sewer. I came today to make a commment on this insightful article but then read Gene Kerrigan’s article in the Indo which makes further comment redundant.

    The island-born, Irish-dwelling Irish will just have to hope that the Brits save them from tyranny once more just as we/they did when the IBID Irish were kissing Hilter’s arse. #Brexit

    The crisis of #Brexit should cause enough mayhem that those in Ireland who want to be something more than just multinational pawns get another chance. Ireland bent and spread for Lisbon Treaty -The Sequel. I can’t see the Brits doing that. Wish it was English /Welsh/Scottish vote, not UK. Let the feint heart Celtic fringe see what happens when the English Lions arise from slumber. It would be so cool if Wales/Scotland vote to stay in the EU but the English say “bollocks! up yours Delors!” #ConstitutionalCrisis

    I guess most folk in the Irish Establishment are so used to bending spreading that they think it’s normal to have spent the first 100 years of ‘independence’ being a prison bitch to residual West Brits, Roman Cult Paedos & Franco-Prussian banksters. It will be hilarious to watch TweedleDeeDum Shotgun Wedding unhappy couple Enda and Micheal joined at the incubus-succubus hip as they ‘celebrate the centenary of The Rising’. What’s there to celebrate? Nothing much, other than a delusional national script that the Irish Mind clings to and will cling to until it is ripped from them by another downleg of the GFC.

    “Hey, Big Boy, you fancy a Double Irish?

    Today, Ireland’s reputation is that of a tax whore.

    We know that right across the world, from here to the US Senate, it is understood that we have been pimped out by a political and financial class who offer the use of the country for any dodgy practice if the price is right.
    Hey, Big Boy, fancy a Double Irish?

    Throughout the EU and further afield, we are known for kissing the ass of anyone who might do us favours. In return, we forego our rights. We are known for our cowardice when the likes of Trichet and Geithner come to bully us. Not strategic deference – cowardice.

    a right-wing Taoiseach who has to be given notes, such as the one urging him to put more “empathy, empathy, empathy” into his public appearances. A man who has to be told what to say – and now what to feel.”

  21. Truthist

    Coldblow ;

    I have some appreciation for your skepticism on the lazy practise of referring to the hackneyed suspects, hackneyed guilty persons, & hackneyed [ wrongly defamed atimes ] persons, for sexual abuse [ especially of children, & vulnerable adults ].
    In recent years it is fashionable to highlight the topic of pedophilia per certain categories of persons & organisations, but to carefully avoid attribution of this evil behaviour to being associated with other certain persons & organisations ;
    Even if they are traditionall more so associated with it.
    Indeed, there is a noteworthy avoidance of ascertaining certain pedophile aspects to the most topical referred practitioners of our times ;
    Saville being an example.
    Saville was chiefly into young boys by the way.

    And,- it is known that Jimmy Saville was an important spy & fixer for top public figures — British & international — to obtain male children primarily for their insatiable fix.

    However,- most of the people who publicly criticise these perverts do not have the courage of their convictions.
    They are quite perverted themselves.
    The people are rotten.
    Mind you I believe your protagonist Cooldude would be very genuinely motivated for the protection of the victims.
    And, Cooldude is correct is reminding u that the evidence is convincing & authoritative.
    Actually,- evidence against Saville was presented publicly long before his death.

    You are correct to explore this issue on an economics blog because such sexual abusers as Saville function as vital spies & facilitators for the Bankster Elite to control the politicians, top civil servants, top intellectuals, top military, top entertainment persons, etc & thus control society including the Economy.

    • Truthist

      Typo ;

      No ; Saville
      Yes ; Savile

    • coldblow

      ‘Truthist’, who are you? This post is beyond bizarre. I have to assume you are another manifestation of Tony-Cooldude-Goldbug & Co. This is becoming tedious. I have some concern for your mental health but the sympathy is draining away.

      I can’t remember the precise sequence but this blog fell seriously into the doldrums under Bonbon’s Reign of Terror. Then you (Tony Brogan) arrived at exactly the same time as Cooldude (seriously, ‘Cooldude’ is the kind of name only a seven-year-old could think up). Then it was gold and conspiracy around the clock. I agree with you, Tony. I agree with you, Cooldude. This is what always happens to every blog it seems.

      If you want to argue with what wrote (if you really must, as I don’t like wasting time on trolls) then argue with the evidence and the reasoning and produce your own counter-evidence and reasoning. Anything else is wasting my time.

      Where are you now, Tony? On a boat? Farming? Travelling the world? Feverishly doing vital research about the ‘Banker Elite’ and govt conspiracies (some of them are household names!!!)? I never read any of it anyway, but if I did, why would I believe a word of it?

      • ” then argue with the evidence and the reasoning and produce your own counter-evidence and reasoning. Anything else is wasting my time.”

        Exactly what you do not do yourself, everything you write is backed only by your own personal delusions and meanderings spinkled with ad hominem speculations.

        Having admitted to not reading anything to then continue to judge according your preconceived bigoted motions.

        having or revealing an obstinate belief in the superiority of one’s own opinions and a prejudiced intolerance of the opinions of others.

        • coldblow

          Tony, in the past your ‘arguments’ have amounted to no more than links to obscure articles by people I have no reason to believe any more than yourself. Or worse, to clowns like Spivey and his hallucinations of paedophile cover-ups by the Duke of Edinburgh or the Teletubbies. Links are not arguments. I want to know the reasoning and you don’t provide it. I think it is because you are not *able* to absorb and digest information from others and then to communicate it coherently using your own words. This is what I do. And I also add my own insights which I don’t think you will find anywhere else. So here, yes, my opinions are better than yours.

          Now the Sun, to take one of your sources (which is what your arguments consist of) here above is worthless and its articles (like your own) are not worth reading. I discovered this long ago, in the same way I made a judgement of your own posts. I don’t need to read the Sun, or your own voluminous output, continually in order to justify dismissing your respective merits as worthless.

          Now above I set out clearly the reasons for my claim that the Savile witch hunt is a witch hunt. I am interested in hearing the informed views from other people but not reflex parroting of received opinion, and not from you or any of your alter egos.

          Looking at YouTube it is clear that there is a substantial minority of people who do not accept the conventional wisdom in this case, certainly about individual allegations but also it seems about the whole story. I haven’t seen anyone set it out clearly or in a reasoned way such as I have. There is a Rory Connor who has an excellent website called Irish Salem, but I haven’t seen anything by him about Savile. He has probably grown weary of beating his head against the rock of conventional wisdom. Richard Webster would certainly have something enlightening to say, seeing as this is the biggest and most dangerous witch hunt we have experienced ever (so far), but unfortunately he is dead (though his excellent website lives on).

          My own interest in the subject ties in with my overriding interest in psychology (your own case is v-e-e-r-y eeen-ter-est-ing, except it isn’t) but I now appreciate its importance in its own right.

          Your own furious denunciations of what I think are fairly neutral statements is similar to the intolerance of the global warmists towards their opponents. It also resembles the frothings of the anti-racist censors towards anyone who questions the wisdom of open borders.

          The irony of your charge of intolerance is noted.

          Nobody asked you to comment last night’s posts of mine but you volunteered (using your Cooldude sock puppet) and you demeaned yourself again with your intemperate language. You should be ashamed of yourself and apologize.

          • “My own interest in the subject ties in with my overriding interest in psychology”

            Thereby lies your problem!!

            I make no apologies for and neither am I ashamed of others postings. ( I repeat again) I post solely under my own name in full daylight, not like yourself who hide in the shadows with a smear campaign.

            Many on this blog know exactly who I am including David himself. I suspect nobody can say the same of you.

            In the last thread I said enough is enough and so it is. Any expression by you on any posting will not be commented on by me even if libellous statements. That does not necessarily mean they will be ignored.


          • coldblow


            I know that others have met you. The question is, has anyone met Cooldude? Anyone?

          • coldblow

            And Tony, why on earth would I start commenting on your posts when I don’t even read them? This arose because you took exception to mine.

          • @coldblow

            You’re a troll in the same way that Brendan O’Neil of Spiked is a silly little troll on the same topics and I suspect you’re pose is lifted entirely from that forum’s paranoid musings.

            There is no conspiracy theory necessary for Savile to be understood as a full on mental case rapist exercising total Droit de Seignur. He said so himself, that he was Untouchable, that he’d get the IRA to blast your kneecaps or Leeds Nutter Smiley Face cops to throw you off the Humber Bridge if you tried to stop his Roman Emperor lifestyle. He could do this all brazenly as he was both a Royal and a Papal Knight and knew exactly what everyone else got up to in bed or in the boardroom, betting shop, etc. FFS! He stated it all openly whilst alive, especially in his hilarious dark comedy genius autobigraphy. Of course some of those claiming to be victim/survivor are angling for cash or totally delusional but there are many who suffered terribly at his hands. If you’re going to come on this blog and throw troll bomb around, expect a response….

            Savile planned it all as meticulously as Bowie and one has to admire his dark genius quest for immortality even as one recoils in bourgeois horror from the lurid details.

            with every good wish
            yours in jublio

            “what is only starting to emerge from this horror story is the extent to which the police appeared to have enabled Savile to claim he was untouchable. This week, a retired Leeds policeman has claimed that “there wasn’t a copper in the city who didn’t know Savile was a pervert”.
            The ex-Leeds City Police officer, speaking under the alias Paul Leonard, said that in 1965 he had come across Savile’s Rolls-Royce parked in a secluded lay-by near Roundhay Golf Club. The then DJ and fledgling television presenter reportedly warned: “I’m waiting for midnight when she turns 16… so p–s off if you want to keep your job.” After reporting the incident to a sergeant, Leonard says he was told: “Shut up, son. He’s got friends in high places.”

            In the early Sixties, according to his autobiography, he referred to another brush with the law, when he was approached by police asking him to help trace a missing girl.
            “If she comes in, I’ll bring her back tomorrow but I’ll keep her all night first as my reward,” Savile told a female officer who had gone to question him. He went on: “The lady of the law… was dissuaded from bringing charges against me by her colleagues, for it was well known that were I to go I would probably take half the station with me.”


          • What is this nonsense about meeting ‘cooldude’? Who cares? Even if you meet someone from a ‘blog’ that doesn’t mean they are being upfront about who they are. They might be Method Acting and be totally different to the person they purport to be just as they do with a screen-name. My real legal name is Andrew G Mooney but that’s not ‘me’. I’m not ‘him’. And yes, I’ve met a few of ye but only offered a Version that seemed ‘appropriate’. Some kind of Morrissey clone if I recall althought I couldn’t be more diffrent that that insipid Mancunian puff. Everyone is an Actor, whether Cracked or not, whether they think they are 4Real or know their frontin it. “all the world’s a stage”. Who on earth would take sockpuppet culture seriously? Who cares? What’s likely to happen? Enda turn up at the pub in Murrisk with his *scary boyz* ranting at me. Again. LOL!



        Savile’s ornate black granite and steel headstone stood for just 19 days. It was unveiled on 20 September 2012 and, following awareness of his abusive past, was removed, during the night of 9–10 October 2012, at his family’s request “out of respect” to public opinion and others buried in and visiting the cemetery.
        Savile’s family asked “out of respect to public opinion” that his gravestone be taken from the cemetery where his body is buried. Scarborough Borough Council and funeral directors removed it “under cover of night”[154] and sent it to landfill.[155][156]

        It was announced that Savile’s inscription in the wall of Leeds Civic Hall would be removed in October 2012.[157]

        A café at Stoke Mandeville Hospital, “Jimmy’s”, which displayed a neon sign in the shape of Savile’s signature, is to be renamed.[158] Cunard cancelled a sail-past tribute to Savile’s burial place at Scarborough, scheduled for 15:00 BST on 1 August 2013.[159][160] The University of Bedfordshire stripped Savile of the honorary degree it had awarded him in 2009.[161] Savile’s name was removed from the Great North Run Hall of Fame.[162]

        On 23 October 2012 two registered charities, the Jimmy Savile Charitable Trust and the Jimmy Savile Stoke Mandeville Hospital Trust, set up to “provide funds for the relief of poverty and sickness and other charitable purposes beneficial to the community”, announced they would close and have their funds redistributed to other charities.[95]

        It was reported on 28 October 2012 that Savile’s cottage in Glen Coe had been spray-painted with slogans and the door damaged.[93][163] The cottage had been searched by police looking for evidence of others involved with him in abuse.[93] Plans to sell the cottage early in 2012 were halted by Savile’s charitable trust, which had planned to turn it into a respite centre for the disabled. These plans were in turn halted when the trust announced it would close.[163] The cottage was sold at auction on 30 May 2013.[164][165]

        On 2 November it was reported that letters had been sent to Savile’s estate, the BBC, Stoke Mandeville Hospital, Broadmoor, and Leeds General Infirmary by solicitors acting on behalf of 20 clients who claimed to have been abused by Savile, and that legal action against them was being considered.[166]

        In November 2012 the BBC confirmed that it would no longer be airing further repeats of Top of the Pops on BBC Four featuring Savile as a presenter.[167]

        On 20 January 2013 the BBC apologised after it screened an episode of Tweenies, recorded in 2001, which featured a character called Max presenting a parody of Top of The Pops, dressed up and with a hairstyle like Savile, and also using some of his catchphrases.[168]

        In June 2015 a stage play about Savile and the abuse scandal was premiered at The Park Theatre in London. Titled An Audience with Jimmy Savile, it was written by Jonathan Maitland and starred Alistair McGowan as Savile.[169]

  22. “What they don’t want,” noted comedian George Carlin, is “a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests.”

    • John W. Whitehead: We have no one but ourselves to blame. We’ve gotten the government – and the society – we deserve. But what did we do to deserve this bloated, power-hungry, self-serving, war-mongering bureaucracy? How did our straight-laced Puritan nation of freedom-loving citizens give way to a self-absorbed, entertainment-obsessed society? The answer is simple: we stopped caring, and we stopped paying attention. Consciously or unconsciously, we gave up on the American Dream and, in so doing, lost our way. The facts speak for themselves. Most Americans have virtually no idea what America stands for and little idea how their government should function.

      • John Whitehead
        “If there is to be any real hope for change, it rests, as it always has, in “we the people” because while we may be a large part of the problem, we are also the solution. And there is great power in this. Each generation of Americans faces the responsibility of protecting and defending the Constitution. It may be comforting to think that the problems facing America could be fixed by the next presidential election. But that is not going to happen. Neither Trump nor Hillary will save us.

        Any real, lasting change will have to come from within you and me—not from a political savior. Thus, if we want change, it is going to take all of us pulling together, working in our communities, addressing our all-too-real human needs.”

        Replace the words American(s) with the name of the inhabitants of the state you inhabit and the solution to today’s ill will rest in your hands.

        • John Whitehead

          “That will mean turning off the television, switching off the computer screen, learning more about our history and getting educated on the basics of our government and Constitution. Then we need to act on what we know. It may start with voting, but that’s the least we can do. Active, direct citizen participation at every level – local, state and federal – is the only real hope for change.”

  23. coldblow

    Andrew, reply posted down here for reasons of space.

    I know O’Neil’s views and he is right about this issue, among others, but I don’t share his general outlook. I would probably say the same about Myers if I could read his latest articles, but they are behind a Sunday Times paywall. (Myers was one of the very few journalists to speak up in support of Nora Wall, the Catholic nun convicted of rape (the first woman in Ireland) and sentenced to life imprisonment on false testimony, later released without an apology. The homeless man convicted along with her, to add verisimilitude to the proceeding, unfortunately died. I would also expect Harris to do the same, but not that many others.) As I have said many times already I became interested in this after reading Richard Webster. If you took the trouble to read his website (which you won’t) he describes the character of modern witch hunts. I came across his site by chance after trawling cyper space trying to work out what on earth was going on with RTE’s Mission to Prey disaster documentary about Fr Peter Reynolds. (You might recall Georg, our sadly missed German correspondent, calling him ‘Reynolds’ and the journalist (Aoife Kavanagh) ‘Aoife’ in the same sentence.)

    I can understand why you (and possibly Tony/Cooldude) are so sensitive about this but that doesn’t mean you can censor fairly held, reasoned and researched views. The trollery (it rhymes with drollery) is yours. This case throws light on mass psychology and the role of the media in forming opinion, and also many innocent men have been humiliated and locked up, with more to follow if the hysteria continues unchallenged.

    I would have shared the conventional view about Savile until then – why wouldn’t I? Just like AGW ‘the science was settled’ – but after studying modern witch hunts, and reading Carlos Cruz’s book about the shameful Casa Pia witch hunt in Portugal it was worth having a detailed look.

    Terms like Droit de Seigneur and Untouchable are just rhetoric not argument, as you well know. So is the description of him as a Roman emperor. As for what he said and wrote, that was part of his style and I am well able to believe that he taunted the policeman about waiting till she was sixteen. I think he often joked about that. As for necrophilia I have yet to look at these charges, but I would bet in advance that this is all down to people taking his jokes literally, the story running away with itself. I am quite prepared to believe he was a groper and it wouldn’t surprise me if he had had sex with girls on the wrong side of sixteen, although I think he would have been careful about this and tried to avoid it. Even here I need evidence other than anecdote and hearsay (and, yes, I did see the video of him on TOTP). However I haven’t seen any convincing evidence (yet) that ‘there are many who suffered terribly at his hands’. Provide it and spare me the rhetoric. I dismiss all of the serious cases I have seen against him so far (set out in my earlier posts) as lies and fantasy. (I still remember a fellow history teacher with me in Chadwell Heath describing how one of his pupils had spent ten minutes trying to persuade him he hadn’t actually seen the offence although she had done it right under his nose.) Give reasoned argument and evidence.

    Seriously, Andrew, can you really believe this evil genius myth? The meticulous planning, the super powers, the uncanny ability to molest ‘young girls’ (be they 5, 15 or 25, the press often leaves the choice up to the reader)? In broad daylight? (The Guardian compared him to Pol Pot and said it was the sheer improbability of it that allowed him to get away with it; breakfast tv marvelled at Savile’s cunning in choosing criminals as his victims – who would take their word over that of ‘Sir Jimmy Savile OBE’? Evil genius!) Could he get away with it after all those rampant rumours (they may well have been rampant but I’m always the last to find out) and with the eyes of millions (to say nothing of the tabloids) watching and waiting for him to slip up? It all came as surprise to his biographer, who knew him well for six years (Establishment cover up!), to his producer (BBC cover up!), to the headmistress of the girls’ reformed school (cover up!), to Max Clifford (lock him up!*). The press can say what they like now he is dead but if you read the reports carefully there they have nothing to offer but scraps and hearsay. Johnny Rotten’s ‘evidence’ is included in the Wiki article (don’t tell Tony). Is that the best they can do? Remember when Michelle Smyth won those Olympic gold medals. A colleague at work asked me the same question. Did I really think this was all legitimate? I disagreed and only later changed my mind since.

    Carlos Cruz, formerly Portugal’s ‘Mr Television’, was convicted in an utter farce of a trial. Among many bizarre things the court refused to examine the evidence his defence had gathered to prove his innocence, because it would weaken the prosecution’s case. Lacking evidence they convicted him on ‘a resonancia de verdade’, ‘the resonance of truth’. That’s what Savile has been posthumously convicted of, and even as resonance goes it’s thin stuff.

    Desmond Fennell wrote of Irish Gaelic as a living language after spending a few years on Maoinis in Connemara campaigning for its revival. He said that there was nothing more dreary and desolate than a place which has just lost the language. I agree with him. It is probably the same with witch hunts and other outbursts of mass hysteria. Who now wants to be reminded of how he behaved after the death of Princess Diana? All those tears? Bryn Estyn, Haut de Garenne, Casa Pia and many others: they have had their outburst of moral indignation and claimed their sacrificial victims and, I suspect, would rather just forget all about it and get on with things. Sure, release the prisoners, but do it quietly (hide it on page 9) and please don’t remind us.

    * If I were a journalist I’d be very careful about what I said. I wrote the following some time ago, possibly posted here: In 2004 journalist Jorge Van Krieken published an article in 24 Horas about the misuse of these albums [used by the police in 'trawling' to encourage, or pressurize, the 'victims' to give them more names]. The first edition had about 30 photos, the second 84 and the third 127, including the president and Eusabio the footballer [Wouldn’t he have been a great catch. ‘Eusabio? No!! Who’d have thought?! I always said he was a paedo c**t, f******g pervert!’). ‘Most disturbingly of all,’ writes Webster, ‘the album also included journalists who had been critical of the investigation. When he studied the list of those featured in the third edition, Van Krieken discovered that he appeared as number 98. He still counts himself fortunate that… he did not himself become a victim of false allegations.’

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