November 19, 2015

Follow the money and all radical Islamist roads lead back to Saudi Arabia

Posted in Irish Independent · 123 comments ·

It’s customary to open the first speech of a conference with the catch-all welcome of “Good morning, ladies and gentlemen”. It’s more of a habit than anything else. It is therefore unusual to then look down more carefully from the podium at the huge hall and realise that there are no ladies present at all.


This absence was one of my first impressions of Saudi Arabia and, although it should have been expected, addressing an all-male audience – many in dresses – in this day and age, feels extremely backward. If a country is trying to be a leading global power and economic giant, excluding half its population seems a bit daft.

That’s Saudi Arabia and I was in its main city, Riyadh.

In contrast, last year at a similar event in Morocco, it couldn’t have been more different. In Morocco, the hall is full of women, they are vocal and questioning, and in Casablanca there is a sense of equality – or at least something moving towards equality. In Saudi, the opposite is the case. Let’s just say that you’d be waiting a while in Riyadh for a #wakingthefeminists Twitter handle!

The difference between both countries and between Saudi Arabia and many other Sunni Muslim countries is that Saudi Arabia has embraced Wahhabism. When I was in Riyadh, I spoke to a few Arab friends to try to get a handle on Wahhabism because, if you want to understand the region, it’s critical to understand this strain of Islam that is preferred by – and exported by – Saudi Arabia.

You can’t understand Isil and what drives them to blow up ancient Roman, Persian and Buddhist monuments without understanding Wahhabis. Nor can you understand what perverted logic drives them to kill innocents without learning about this type of strict Islam.

Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab was born not far from Riyadh in 1703. He trained as a holy man and was, like many religious people, constantly torn between a purist adherence to the original scriptures and a more tolerant accommodation of the word of God leavened with the reality of day-to-day living. This schism is not unusual. The fight between puritanism and pragmatism is after all, at the heart of the great split in the western Christian Church too – what we call the Reformation.

Al Wahhab called for the purification of Islam and a return to pristine Islam. When the young Imam called for the beheading of women in his local town for adultery, the people knew this guy meant business. However, it is likely that this form of extremism wouldn’t have caught on in what was, by the standards of the time, a reasonably tolerant place had it not been for local insurrection against the unpopular Ottoman Empire which ran the Arabian Peninsula and taxed the locals mercilessly.

Possibly in an effort to get God on his side in his fight against Istanbul, the local leader of a small oasis, Mohammad ibn Saud, threw his lot in with the renegade preacher, Al Wahhab, in 1745. The link between the House of Saud and Wahhabi was forged there and then; and they have been allies ever since.

At the time, Islam, like lots of religions, was a concoction of bits of other religions, beliefs and practices. These had been borrowed and customised along the way. Remember this part of the world was the crucible of civilisation, the epicentre of the world’s great trading routes and a place where the three main monotheist religions, Christianity, Judaism and Islam had been founded – Judaism and Christianity literally a few yards from each other, Islam a few hundred miles down the road.

Given this mix, it’s hardly surprising that there were huge overlaps in these faiths and, as Islam was the newest creed, it borrowed the most. Al Wahhab objected to this evolutionary, almost ‘hand-me-down’ approach to Islam. As a purist, he wanted to go back to basics, to make pristine the religion. Possibly the most important tenet of Wahhabis is that they believe in what they call “the oneness of God”. As a result, association with lesser gods, other gods, mysticism, shrines, temples, saints or holy men amounts to idolatry and must be stamped out.

This put Wahhabis on a collision course with the other strains of Islam such as Shi’as or, even worse in the eyes of the Wahhabis, Sufism. Shi’as and Sufis were the enemy within and, of course, Judaism and Christianity were the enemies at the door. Wahhabis called for jihad against all these infidels.

The Saudi/Wahhabi alliance was cemented by war and conquest as Arabian armies, immersed in a pure sectarian Islam, rampaged around the southern flanks of the crumbling Ottoman Empire. The Wahhabis were feared, deploying extremely brutal tactics against their Shi’ite enemies, for example in their sacking in the early 19th century of Karbala, Mecca and Medina, which were particularly vicious. But just in case we Christians get on our high horse, such sectarian savagery was a re-run of the earlier, 17th century, Thirty Years War in Europe.

For a century, the march, and reach, of the Wahhabis was limited to the Arabian Peninsula. Then the game changed, Saudi Arabia struck oil and the politics of the region altered forever, so too did geo-politics and Western economic expedience. Once the Saudis discovered oil, the West snuggled up to Riyadh, no questions asked.

Now the most extreme form of Islam was wedded to the richest country on earth and the Saudis have set about exporting not just oil, but a radical, intolerant form of Islam which drives Isil and various other jihadi groups. Saudi Arabia has spent some of its vast oil wealth on financing madrassas from Malaysia to Manchester – some of which are projecting Wahhabi ideas far from the Gulf.

Isil, with its murder of innocents, its desecration of ancient monuments and its subjugation of women, is the latest incarnation of extreme Wahhabism, and Saudi Arabia – the West’s biggest ally in the region – is Isil’s biggest external financier.

It costs money to wage war and Isil gets money from oil, local racketeering, hostage-taking and external private donations. The private donations come from donors, many of whom are Saudi.

When you follow the money, all radical roads lead back to Saudi Arabia, not states that are supposedly the West’s enemies such as Libya, Iraq or even Assad’s Syria.

From the majority of the 9/11 hijackers, to Bin Laden, his al-Qa’ida chief lieutenants and now Isil, each of these extremist organisations are the 21st century offspring of Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab, the cleric who came out of the desert in the 1730s and the institution he allied with in 1745: the House of Saud.

  1. Subscribe, up early this morning lads – 5am here.

    • Interesting article, it does bring to mind the hypocrisy of the USA to be welded to such a regime in Saudi Arabia.
      One point that I would add is that the Global Industrial War Manufacturing and Sales Machine is now suck a huge industry that it will not allow the cessation of wars. It wants to sell its products and it dictates government foreign policy in many large countries now.
      it’s like the pharmaceutical drug and hospital industries (sickness industries) need sick people and so they will always have a claw in the food industry as well as a claw in the slave labour industry, (making people stressed, fat and sick from long hours and horrible work practices etc).
      Similarly the car industry will always have a claw in governments policy on road building.
      This plays hand in hand with finance companies, worn out workers die from lifestyle induced illnesses and do not live long enough to collect their pensions.

  2. A proverbial butterfly in South America flapping his wings the other day caused the recent barney storm in Ireland .

    I wonder did the camel of Wahab have a thousand flees ?

  3. Thriftcriminal

    Adam Curtis’ documentary “Bitter Lake” covers this well.

  4. Just a Note from a time Before on this wonderful site

    Last month I completed a hard back velum bound book of ten copies only revealing the new substrate language spoken in Ireland up to 50,000 years ago directly from West Africa . The book addresses many things about what we we speak in our country and more importantly the mindset from Africa has not changed in all that time . Gaelic eclipsed the Bible , Torah and the Koran and tower of Babel .

    Copies have been given away to libraries on two continents . You may seek to read it in Glucksman library University of Limerick and or Princess Grace Library in Monaco otherwise the rest are with head of states and a charity. .

    • The book is called :

      Book of Muckross

      Ooom Muckus Roose

    • sravrannies

      Interesting John. At the risk of sounding ignorant; how does that tie in with link suggested by philologist John Cooke between the Celtic language of the British Isles and the language found on 7th Century BC tablets in SW Portugal??



      Depending on where you are you may have access but, can always be got around with a Proxy I.P. Starts from 41mins.

      • This would fit exactly with the path taken by these early Africans between West Africa and Kerry .

        Similarly Galatian (Spain) language part of that process and coastal Atlantic .

        I think David should be informed what was the first name for a ball on the Isles of Britain and Ireland . The word is ‘Caid’ .
        Check the GAA dictionary and it remains still in their official vocabulary .This word is used rarely in West Limerick and parts of Kerry still .This is an original word from Africa .

      • CitizenWhy

        That would also be, like Malta, a Punic speaking area at one time.

        A few years ago there was an article in the New York Times about a computer analysis of the oldest offshoot of Hittite, presumed to be the ur-language of the Indo-European group,. The analysts were expecting Sanskrit. Instead it turned out to be Celtic. Not surprising, since Celts occupied the central area of Turkey that was the heartland of the Hittites. That Celtic kingdom lasted into about the 300′s AD. At ;least one strand of Celtic immigration to Ireland is presumed to have come from Turkey by way of North Africa and Spain.

  5. michaelcoughlan


    Follow the money and all roads will lead back to failed Neo Keynesian Policies through the middle east and everywhere else.

    Don’t believe me?

    Marc Faber says so from 6:30;

  6. Wills

    Timely article and great read we must dust off on our history on this.
    Also, important to to bear in mind yes but the individual s responsibility to exercise their common sense and see that killing another human being on purpose is anti religious no matter what way one try’s to dress it up comes into play the most.

  7. DC

    “Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive”

    This article relates to only one aspect (but an important one)of the Rise of ISIS etc.

    A truer picture of meddling and proxy support can be seen here.

    • cooldude

      Interesting article DC. The West has a long history of supporting blood thirsty fanatics throughout this region. When oil was discovered in Saudi Arabia in 1937 the US and Britain began supporting and arming the House of Saud in the full knowledge that they were the most viscous, anti secular, blood thirsty thugs in the region. Their extreme Wahhabism was never questioned and still is not questioned to this day.

      Other supporters of ISIS in the region are Qatar, Jordan, Israel and Turkey and they covertly support ISIS and other extremists in their efforts to displace the Assad regime. Their is clear evidence that the CIA was involved in creating ISIS and are using them to promote their aims in the region.

      These are very trying times and it is important to get to grips with who these people are and who is supporting them. The goal in the West is greater government control and continued elimination of human rights. Here is an article which explores these issues in depth

    • Deco

      Western politicians, and Western bankers need an elite in control of the resource owning countries, who are afraid of their own people, afraid of socialist leaning policy debates, and who are eager to invest in Western capitalism.

      As a result, the Westn has entered into a Faustian pact with some very oppressive regimes. Not just in the Middle East.

      John Pilger gets this. And his documentaries cover it excellently.

  8. Bamboo

    It will be interesting to see what stand the soccer worldcup nations will take on the Qatar WC. Now that we know these games are riddled with corruption and that there are more and more noises what Qatar involvement is in funding ISIS.
    It is early days yet but it will come soon to a very hot point of no return. What will individual football associations do, what about the players and what about the national politics that will come into play? Will it go ahead because of the money or will they stay away. It may be the first time in history that the WC will be canceled.

  9. CitizenWhy

    The official emblem of Saudi Arabia – two swords crossed – symbolizes the Saudi royals and the Wahhabi clergy united.

    Saudi Arabia is is using the same defensive tactic as the Byzantines, who would bribe threatening barbarian tribes to attack in the weak west rather than attack Byzantine territory. Now the Saudis send out Wahhabi missionaries, open madrases and convert locals into Wahhabi sects like ISIL, the Taliban, Al Queda, and Boko Haram. Then the Saudis give money to the new redical expressions of Wahhabism to attack the West and Russia.

    Saudi Arabia is the enemy of civilization.

    • Deco

      Saudi Arabia has mountains of money, a layered society, cohesion based on make believe, restrained intellect development, and a fear based morality.

      A very dangerous combination.

  10. CitizenWhy

    If I were a conspiracy theorists – I’m not – I would have to conclude that the determination by the US to destabilize the Mideast through overwhelming military destruction has been a right wing strategy to destroy European social democracy by overwhelming Europe with millions of desperate refugees. But instead I know, as Bernie sanders has put it, that Cheney and Bush were “tough minded but stupid” about the Mideast and that Obama can go only so far in backing off from the Cheney-Bush catastrophe.

    One of the real reasons for the US Iraq invasion, as discussed in the White House, was to attract Jihadists to fight over there rather than attack the US.

    Another reason was to prevent a Russian-French plan to get rid of Saddam Hussein and install a stable military government committed to certain gradual reforms. The US did not want Russia, already the largest oil producer, to get control of the Iraqi oil fields.

    The US is always out to act against Russia. That is why the US backed the Saudi=Gulf States plan to overthrow Assad in order to get an oil pipeline through Syria. Russia, Assad’s ally, did not want a Saudi-Gulf States pipeline through Syria because such a pipeline would offer serious competition to Russia in selling to Europe.

    Yes, the Bush family is all wrapped up in business partnerships with the Saudis. But let us remember that it was FDR who made the deal with the Saudis to provide the west with cheap oil after WWII in order to rebuild Europe (cheap energy required) and to fuel the boom in the US economy (cheap energy required).

  11. Mike Lucey

    The quicker we achieve a replacement for oil the better things will be and civilised nations will not be inclined to ‘cozy up’ to these primitives that use religion to suit their own ends.

    Bill Gates has taken the initiative towards this end, ‘Bill Gates and Other Business Leaders Urge U.S. to Increase Energy Research’ and he is putting his money where is mouth is to the tune of half a billion with more to come!

    The main obstacle I see against the replacement of oil is ‘Big Oil’ and the strangle hold it has on the economy. Maybe this can be loosened with future innovation that allows ‘small business’ to generate its own energy.

    To demonstrate what I mean at a very basic level. I recently bought a wind-up torch in a local euro shop. Its an amazing feeling to generate ‘light’ using one’s own muscle power.

    • joe sod

      “The main obstacle I see against the replacement of oil is ‘Big Oil’ and the strangle hold it has on the economy. Maybe this can be loosened with future innovation that allows ‘small business’ to generate its own energy.”

      Alot of people mistakenly think that oil can be easily replaced and we just need to get “big oil” out of the way and throw a few billion into R+D and then we will have clean cheap energy. If only it were that simple its not a “little red riding hood and the big bad wolf fairytale”. It makes you wonder though maybe there is a god or allah. He creates this magic substance that we cant replace but he puts it all on the arabian peninsula. The same region where all the big religions came out of

  12. Grzegorz Kolodziej

    First of all, a good article – the Irish media too rarely foray into events and places outside the British isles, let alone give a background to those determining factors, even though they surely have a bigger effect on our lives than, say, 8 cows electrocuted on a field near Calluragh South near Lahinch – one of the main news on 12 November.

    David’s article seems to fill that gap with historical background. I would like to add mine twopenn’orth:


    As CitizenWhy pointed out, let’s not forget that the special US-Saudi relations go back to FDR and his deal with them. However, the real dominance of the US ally in the region started around 1976, when the Saudis put a cap on the rise of the prices of oil which put Iran in general and King Shah in particular in their places, dislodging the grip they had on Middle East (Iran’s oil revenue went down by 30%).


    In 2013 both Israel and Saudi Arabia tried to change the balance of powers in the region by trying to incite the US into attacking Iran. Prime Minister Netanyahu has said that Iran was “several times more dangerous than ISIS” – he was mistaken, to say the least. Even Poland was asked to send her F-16 to the Middle East in return for nothing – as it customary in the US-Polish relations (i.e., neither the Americans, nor the English and French informed the Poles about the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact, despite their military agreements which obliged them to do so – the Americans knew about it as early as 24 August 1939 – btw, the Voelkischer Beobachter praised FDR’s fascist policies and his style of leadership as “being compatible with Hitler’s own dictatorial Führerprinzip”). Krzysztof Wyszkowski – the real founder of “Solidarnosc” and an adviser to 2 governments – has posed a question in the Polish Parliament that if we are told to enter into war with Iran, we’d better go why and in return for what.

    What the Primer Minister of Israel really meant was that it is more dangerous for Israel if Iran becomes the main trading partner of the US and the EU than if ISIS carries out bombing campaign in Europe (particularly in view of the fact I had mentioned before that Israel sponsors Muslim immigration into Sweden and has its agency in Sweden promoting it).

    And this is how the Saudi Arabia suddenly comes into picture.


    One cannot understand the geopolitical thinking of Saudi Arabia if one does not take into account their fear – since the Soviets invaded Afghanistan – that they would be bracketed by hostile countries – a thinking shared with Israel and even if some of it is paranoia resulting from their religions (Wahabbism and orthodox Judaism respectively), a thinking not completely unjustifiable. If one considers Saudi Arabia and Israel as the US proxies, one cannot forget that Saudi Arabia has their own proxies – and it spent billions of dollars on trying to maintain stability in those small countries (Saudi Arabia spends hundreds of millions dollars on promoting its positive image in the West alone).
    Take another Saudi fear into account – by 2030 – given demographics – their oil consumption would equal their oil production. They have to do something rather quick. But what are their geopolitical options in the region? Let’s examine them one by one:


    China would be an ideal ally if it had any interest in it. But China’s strategy is to wait patiently until the West and Russia would trip each other up, while modernizing and enlarging their army in the meantime.


    India would be ideal because it is a US and Israeli ally. But India has a huge Shia minority no government wants to piss off.


    There is too much bad blood between Russia and Saudi Arabia at the moment; besides, Russia has already invested a lot in Iran’s military. Let’s not forget that in 2013, after Saudi Arabia’s Prince Bandar had threatened President Putin with unleashing Chechenyan terrorism during the Winter Olympics unless Russia agrees not to disturb in toppling the Syrian regime, President Putin threatened Saudi Arabia with massive airstrikes (as reported by the Lebanese newspaper As-Safir) and he even issued an order (17 May 2013) putting the Russian forces into emergency in preparation for the airstrikes).


    A NATO member, Sunni government and interested in conquering Syria. So far so good. But Turkey tries to ethnically cleanse Kurds, which Saudi Arabia has no interest in (neither they are opposed to it) and it is on a verge of war with Russia, which violates their airspace on a regular basis (Turkey probably would not be that opposed to it if Russia at least paid them for that as the US do, but since they do not, in keeping with Thucidides teachings they cannot afford not reacting to it because it would show their weakness which would endanger their alliances).

    So Saudi’s position is wobbling and that weakness has encouraged other countries; most importantly, it has encouraged Saudi Arabia to go even more crazy with sponsoring international terrorism.

    A good example of that weakened position is the refusal of the Pakistani Parliament to support the Saudis war with Yemen, with disinterest of President Obama.


    Since the 70s, Saudi Arabia has spent (officially) $100,000,000,000 – billions that is – building Islamic centers and mosques in Europe (unofficially they have spent $87bn in years 1987-2007 alone, according to Curtin Winsor Junior). For that they have built 1,500 mosques and over 200 Islamic centres, sadly including one in Warsaw in July this year (Poles have their own Muslim minority for a few centuries, but they are loyal citizens who had distinguished themselves in wars and are of mild Islamic orientation – as always, it is the loyal ethnic minorities who suffer the most in such cases when foreign countries try to undermine the delicate balance).

    According to an internal document issued by the EU Council counter-terrorism coordinator Gilles de Kerchove, there are 1,595 REGISTERED foreign terrorists in Europe (in fact, they are pretty much allowed to travel to and fro and not only that: Belgian authorities knew about the Abdeslams brothers involved in the Paris massacres – they arrested them and released them, and did not tell the French authorities about them – they would later take part in Paris attacks; another issue is that all of that would not have gained tragic dimensions of that scale if the Europeans had not been disarmed by banning (or making it nearly impossible) gun ownership in Europe as it is much more difficult for a few lads to kill a hundred people if, say, 50 people in the theatre had guns – bear in mind, even the special no-gun zones did not prevent the terrorists to smuggle guns into, i.e., the stadium).

    Where do they come from and who finances them?

    An US army encounter with ISIL in October 2007 in Sajir in north of Iraq throws some light on it (now, I do know that US had de facto created ISIL, but I refer you to one of my previous comments where I mentioned that the terrorists the US has trained pulled of fast one on the US and converted into Jihad a long time ago – hence President Putin’s question to President Obama in UNESCO ‘Do you realise what you have done?’).

    On the list of 606 foreign members of ISIL, 41% were Saudi citizens (Syrians comprised 8,2% – there are ethnically Irish among ISIL terrorist too as shown in the link below, so the problem seems to be much larger than just non-controlled immigration and it touches on the clash of civilizations – one has to wonder what was attractive for them in radical Islam – surely not only the money because as Kierkegaard wrote, ‘ in order to be rich, I must also be sure of tomorrow’):

    ‘A number of young Irish people have left Ireland to fight alongside ISIS’


    ‘A number of young Irish people have left Ireland to fig…
    Irish MEP Brian Hayes says more needs to be done to make sure these people feel part and parcel of Ireland.
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    Another source of money for weapons is money paid as ransom by Western countries (notably, the UK and the US refuse to pay ransom).

    The question of who buys oil from ISIL – another source of financing terrorism – has been covered by David in one his previous articles, where he came up with a thesis that in view of falling oil prices ISIL is encouraged to conquer more and more territories.

    Finally, the elephant in the room: to put it bluntly, terrorists shed the blood of the innocents using weapons provided by France. That’s right. France does not allow her own citizens to defend themselves, but she is happy to arm ISIL – and French trade unions are one of the most vociferous defenders of that state of affairs.

    In UNESCO, Mr. Bashar Jafari, the Syrian ambassador by the UN, quoted a letter from the General Salim Idris, dated 12 January 2014. In that letter he describes how 2/3 of the ammunition provided to Jahbatal-Nusra (branch of Al-Quaeda) and 1/3 of the ammunition provided to ISIL was provided by Turkey and France.


    My aim is not to reignite the civil war in Ireland (surely I would be one of the first to suffer from it), but I would like to point out to deep philosophical – or rather theological – similarities between Wahabbism now and Protestantism in the past.

    What was the core thesis of Protestantism? It was called sola Scriptura – allowing the subjective reading of the Bible in the name of freedom from Rome. Philosophical background of that is very interesting. A highly sophisticated philosopher from Middle Ages, William of Ockham – author of the most difficult philosophical treaty I have ever not finished to read, called Tractatus de quantitate (1323), which makes Russell’s “On Denoting” a doddle in comparison, wrote – before 1335 – a highly interesting ‘Dialogus’. In it he argues that the Church can actually fall into heresy and it is possible that only person can be right and he or she can be the actual Church.

    And what’s wrong with that? Seemingly nothing, but it might have been something wrong and it was.

    Fast forward to Luther.

    When he revolted against Catholicism, him and his ilk promised the freedom of interpretation, building on Ockham and trying to go back to St. Augustin (he viewed St. Thomas Acquina as a modernist). But when they got to power, they said that they never meant that and what they really meant was not individual interpretation, but replacing the wrong Catholic interpretation with the right one. Soon after they started forcing Catholics into conversions. This triggered an era of intolerance unknown in Middle Ages, with heretics (Protestants recalled that concept from the early Christianity and spiced it up) being burned at stakes – admittedly not on that scale as people killed during the atheist (or rather deists) French Revolutions.

    To give you one example, Servet was burned for his Antitrinitarism (which he arrived at because he had wrongly translated an excerpt from the Bible from Greek – which shows how important it is to learn foreign languages).

    Thousends of Anabaptists had been burned on the fabricated charges of inciting peasants rebellion (they appeared after the rebellion).

    In other words, a relative diversity within the Church and freedom of debates (i.e., questions like Utrum Deus Sit were freely debated at universities whereas nowadays David Irving is in prison for questioning Holocaust – both questions being equally touchy in respective ages…) was replaced with infallibility of the individual (Luther or Calvin).

    Hence the Pope Benedict said about absorbing the rational spirit of the Greek philosophy “Europe became Europe through the Christian faith, which carries the heritage of Israel in itself, but at the same time has absorbed the best of the Greek and Roman spirit into itself” ( Homily of Ratzinger (13 September 1980), “Wahrer Friede und wahre Kultur: Christlicher Glaube und Europa” in Christlicher Glaube und Europa. 12 Predigten (Munich: Pressereferat der Erzdiözese München und Freising), pp. 7-18, at pp. 8-9.).

    This was a stepping stone to French Revolution, where a man toppled God and became a God himself (Robbespierre in that case, who was personally responsible for 10,000 murders).

    And on that bombshell…

    • Deco

      There are similarities between non-Lutheran/non-Anglican versions of Protestantism that circulated in the regions around the North Seam in the 1620s and Wahhabism today.

      Both look down upon others for not being “pure” enough in their faith.

      Both seem comfortable showing off personal wealth, as outward signs of being destined to an afterlife.

      Both seem obsessed with the defining written original text. With Calvinists this was more often the Old Testament.

      Both were fighting creeds, and were in response to fear/a sense of acopalytic foreboding.

      As a result of distancing themselves from the more pragmatic tendency in others, they tend to see themselves as special. They develop a complex, of extreme self-centredness in an immoral world. Calvin’s Geneva proclaimed itself as a “city of God”. The Wahhabis are wrecking the older districts of Mecca to ensure the same outward impression.

      Both can be highly superficial, and often hypocritical. With a tendency to preach one thing, and practice another. [ Iris Robinson....].

      Calvinist causes lost enthusiasm, as it ran out of parents willing to sacrifice their sons for the cause. It got diluted to result in Scottish Presbyterianism, and Dutch Reformed. It may have influenced the Jansenism movement in French Catholicism. And perhaps even German Pietism.

      And all of these became obsessed with materialism, eventually.

      Of the two, Wahabbism is the most flawed, the least reflective, the most dogmatic, and the most troubling.

      • CitizenWhy

        In describing extreme Protestantism in Europe you are describing what “Christian” now means in the USA (Catholics are excluded from the term Christian, but the Catholic bishops are in an abortion obsessed political alliance with the extreme Protestants).

        Kaier wilhelm’s wife, Dora, was an extreme and war mongering Protestant. His mother, Queen Victoria’s daughter Victoria, and her husband, were peacemakers. But her husband died a few months before ascending the Prussian throne and the throne passed to her son Wilhelm, who hated his mother and her views.

        Some of Victoria’s daughters and granddaughters on the continent led saintly lives. One has been canonized as St. Elizabeth in the Orthodox Church (she converted). She certainly seems to have deserved the honor for her devotion to the poor as well as her piety.

        • Deco

          Within Protestantism, many became disenchanted with the Anglicanism and Lutheranism (not tough enough), and sought a differnt approach. Many of these ended up in the US, eventually.

          The US became the “Promised Land” of Evangelical Protestantism.

          Years ago, I was stunned to find out that the term “evangelical” in Germany means something very different from the term “evangelical” in the US.

          James Howard Kunstler has an amusing line – he says that the predominant religion in the USA is not Evangelical Protestantism, but shopping.

          I think he hit that spot on.

      • Deco

        Of course, there are aslo critical differences between Wahhabists and Calvinists.

        An obvious one being that Calvinists accumulated wealth. Wahhabism seems obsessed with blowing it, and squandering it all, in daft schemes.

        • CitizenWhy

          The important similarity between the ISIS Wahhabis and US Fundamentalist Christians is simply this:

          Both agree that the end of the world is nigh, with Jesus waiting in the wings saying, “C’mon, c’mon, get with it, Wahhabis and Christians, get that war started in the Midele Eats so I can come back and end this evil world and take up into heaven those of you have obeyed our vengeful God.

          Yes, in the Qu’ran Jesus is the Messiah, the prophet with the mission of returning to earth to end the world, The US Christians can’t wait, they want Israel to start the war against all the Arabs. The Wahabis in ISIS want the same war. Both want Jesus back.

          This is not an exaggeration. This exactly what they both believe. And Ted Cruz, completely believing in this vision, may be the next President of the United States.

      • Deco

        Further differences between Calvinism and Wahhabism.

        No innovation in Wahabbism. For example there was no developmen of Yankee ingenuity like occurred in New England.

        No sense of reinvestement in capital to produce more like occurred in the Netherlands, or Scotland’s lowlands. Wahhabism advocates throwing it around in a show.

        Calvinism had functional minimalism. Wahhabism dysfunctional excess.

    • Deco

      Turkey is becomming a very divided society. It is also eincreasingly corrupt.

      Ankara keeps imagining that it can prevent the creation of a Kurdish state. This sort of thinking indicates the deep moral vacuum that exists in Turkish politics. The Kurds deserve to have their own stte, because even if they were really stupid, they would still do a better job than their various neighbours.

      Turkey has produced various interventions that have made everything worse in Syria, with the objective always being of weakening the Kurdish population.

      Along the way, Ankara has gained form the reticence of Washington. And Ankara even got a PR stunt, from Merkel, in what can only be seen as an idiotic intervention to help sustain the ridiculous in Turkish politics. [ unfortunately they stunt suceeded ].

    • coldblow

      I agree that it is an excellent article by David. Most journalists would not attempt this kind of thing.

      I’m not expert, Grzegorz, but I think you are right with the Protestant comparison. I have mentioned here on a number of occasions Richard Webster’s view that modern witch hunts and outbursts of violent irrationality, at least in England, are the result of the Putrian revolution of the 17thC (which Ireland felt the full force of) whose ways of thinking have beceom sublimated in modern secular thought. (John Gray is another writer who points this out, though he focuses more on the apocalyptic side of Christianity. Both he and Webster (as far as I remember) point out that the ‘materialist scientistic’ belief in the onward march of human progress (which presumably includes the exciting new breakthroughs in human rights and gender identity!) is a concept alien to the rest of the world outside Christianity.)

      Webster quotes the historian Christopher Hill discussing the significance of the Protestant Ethic: ‘Protestant preachers in the late sixteenth and early seventeenth century, undertook a cultural revolution, an exercise in indoctrination, in brainwashing, on a hitherto unprecedented scale.’

      ‘These paragraphs, I believe,’ writes Webster, ‘are among the most penetrating which have ever been written by any modern historian.’

      Webster has a point, but I probably don’t really agree with him beyond that.

      I once went round the country churches of Norfolk with my wife (there isn’t much else to see in the pretty villages) and they are wonderful old buildings steeped in history. it was jarring to see in some of them the wonderfully preserved results of the disfiguring of engravings by Puritan soldiers who spitefully scratched out the faces. This is the same kind of thing the Muslim fundamentalists get up to of course.

      As for the Protestant Ethic I had to write an essay about in my first year at university. I said I wasn’t convinced and why and my tutor gave me over 90%. When he discussed it with me he said I was flippant. Moi?

      I think you are broadly right about the Enlightenment and the French Revolution.

      Irish journalists would doubtless compare Protestantism favourably with Catholicism and contrast the liberalism of the former with the latter’s authoritarianism. Another mark of our backwardness. Protestants are cuddly and tolerant. They are sober and restrained and furthermore do valuable work in the well-paid professions. They are if anything too self-effacing and it is high time they asserted themselves, although they have been working discreetly in the background to transform this country and hsve played a valuable role in the ‘ongoing’ struggle against the forces of darkness, which has brought us our present freedoms (never let it be forgotten that these were only achieved through struggle and self-sacrifice) which are the envy of the world. Ah, but to live again that glorious day in May! (And so on and so forth.)

      Ed Hussain’s book (The Islamist, I think it’s called) contrasts the humane values of Sufism with intolerant Wahabbism. He describes how Sufi pilgrims in Saudi Arabia risked a blow of a rifle but from the guards at the shrines there if they showed any signs of piety. I suppose this would be like the Italian pilgrims at Lourdes (apparently the big majority of all pilgrims) who rub cloths along the stone at the grotto.

      • coldblow

        I meant to add that Gray amusingly describes the present evangelical atheism of Dawkins, Fry and their merry men as following a *crude* version, philosophically speaking, of Christianity. Atheists, with their simple beliefs and naïve faith in their self-evident superiority, would be indignant in rejecting this (whether they understood it or not).

        (Stephen Fry, by the way, was summed up by Julie Burchill as the stupid person’s idea of what an intelligent man is.

        • So you believe in God, do you coldblow?

        • coldblow

          Here’s Gray’s article about the ‘new atheists’.

          ‘It’s a reassuringly simple equation. In fact there are no reliable connections – whether in logic or in history – between atheism, science and liberal values.’

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej


          Thanks. Lots to think of in your comment.

          I’ll have to have a closer link at link you have attached.

          As to Richard Dawkins, I have made a logical refutation of Richard’s Boeing 747 argument, but it’s in the Microsoft Publisher format (it was for the presentation), so I do not know how can I attach it. I do not think I can.

          I wanted to publish the gist of my refutation on his website, but he would not allow me – so much for his freedom of thought. He reminds me a bit of what they used to say about Sir Bertrand Russell (the most educated fool in England – except Mr. Dawkins is way below Sir Russell’s league). His lack of philosophical knowledge is of encyclopaedical proportions and he seems to be proud of it. May I also say that I had been familiar with Mr. Dawkin’s theories before he became famous, and I once asked him what is the ontological status of a meme (this was when I was very confrontational, now I am mild person). 45 minutes he was trying to avoid the question, saying he would come back to that – he simply never thought about it.
          As far as I remember, he lost what – 2 out 3 or 3 out 3 Oxford-format debates (and these were not even professional philosophers he was debating) – I cannot recall the exact number now?

          Because this website does not take such documents, I’ll only attach a link to a very lightweight review of the New Atheists (sadly only 30min preview is available for free):

          • coldblow

            Another favourite cliché of mine is the one that contrasts what ‘real’ Christianity means (‘What would Christ himself think if he were here now?’ ‘Wow, that’s a profound thought. I never thought of it like that. But isn’t he, like, here already, like, in spirit?’) and the ‘corrupt’ institutional churches (especially the evil Catholic one)who are only interested in power.

            I just read a comment to that effect on James Kunstler’s CFN blog. I started commenting there a few weeks ago (under my own name), just for the fun of it, and it is a bit like wandering onto the set of Cheers and arguing with the characters.

          • coldblow

            I read Dawkins’s Selfish Gene back in the 80s and told my 6th form history class about one of the models in it involving a population containing hawks and doves. They weren’t impressed. Some of them were ringleaders in the school’s Born Again movement (a colleague later told me that the Born Agains were some of the worst for not doing their homework) presumably because they had already heard of Dawkins and didn’t want to have atheism preached at them. (I hadn’t even considered an atheist angle.)

            I bought the God Delusion (or whatever it’s called) and dip into now and again for a laugh. It was just too tedious and silly to read through. One bit that made me laugh out loud was his account of a talk he gave in Dublin where he likened religious education to child abuse. He thought they were going to attack him but was pleasantly surprised by the enthusiastic applause. Does, or did, Dawkins seriously believe that Ireland was like something out of the 1930s? I’d have been staggered if they *hadn’t* applauded.

        • coldblow

          For some reason I thought you were ahead. I must have been tired.

  13. Deco

    More truth in that article that in a years coverage of the Middle East from Pravda-RTE, the propaganda organ of the incompetent Irish institutional state.

    The real power of the Wahhabi advocates, is the fact that their benefactor regime has had massive infleunce on international currency markets until now. The US could have apprehended this power, by being internally efficient, and following the recommendations of James Howard Kunstler. Instead the US went for an unsustainable living arrangement called suburbia, and mall culture.

    And indeed Ireland has done the same.

    Saudi Arabia is a powderkeg. And the powder is Wahhabi doctrine.

    Unfortunately, the strategic planning department in Washington is aligned to the Gulf petroleum monarchies, and has been giving them free licence to advocate Wahabbism across many countries. This is destabilizing Pakistan, Turkey, and Algeria to moderate degress – and Syria, Libya and others to a sever degree.

    Can anybody speak with a conscience to Washington ?

    If we look at the past century of interference in Latin America, or decades of interference in SE Asia, the answer is “no”.

    Apart from that the ideas of Salman Rushdie are very much relevant. There is a lack of debate about society, in the Middle East, and a dangerous excess of debate about morality (which in this context is often flawed). Rushdie gets that the entire debate is irrational, and stuck in fear.

    The petroleum based monarchies of the Gulf, need enough religion to make the people obedient, and not enough to make them deviant. This is why they are all powderkegs. And it is far worse than the confusing combination of politics, materialism, showing off, and religion that existed in the lands bordering the North Sea, between the 1580s and the 1650s.

    They have not asked themselves if there is another approach to running a society that will enable them to survive without needing to be involved in religion. Britain needed to figure this out after the English Civil War, and opted for a less doctrinaire established Church of England (resulting in the purists leaving for New England). The monarchies themselves do not want socialist leaning options like occurred in Libya and Syria to be widespread in the region, because these are a threat to their power, and wealth. Really, they are afraid. Afraid of socialism.

    And here is the greatest joke of all – their greatest ally (purely for political reasons) is the talk-like-a-socialist-but-walk-with-the-corporatists in the Democratic Party of the USA.

    In many ways, the real religion is about money and power. And the young idiots are simply the idiots that are over-believing the propaganda that is in place to keep the distribution of power and money, as it currently exists. Over-belief is a side effect of keeping the Middle East from becoming too Chavez-like for the needs of the Western powers.

    Karl Marx is needed in the Middle East, just like he is thoroughly redundant in the Pacific Rim, and increasingly redundant in Latin America. Because it is all about the positioning of a society on the development path. And certain societies are so Medieval, that even Marx represents an improvement.

    Somebody needs to tell SIPTU and the order of the beards, that he is completely redundant in the Irish context, if we are to be a flexible, innovative society.

  14. Deco

    I would not compare the Shia-Sunni split to the Thirty Years War. The Thirty years war started off as the Habsburgs trying to consolidate central Europe, and ended up being about a competing French cardinal screwing up Europe with the idea of the nation state and centralized bureacracy. Just look at the Richelieu model of directional centralized state power as it exists in Ireland today. Highly effective at sucking money out of people – completely ineffective at providing any proper competence in return. It is all a power trip.

    It is the complete antithesis of what the Irish state should have become.

    The same Richelieu model of state authority is responsible for the Catalan mess, and the repression of the Basques.

    There is a perceived wisdom is that that the outcome of the Thirty Years war was peace – when really it was another three centuries of relentless war. Had the Habsburgs won Northern Germany, there would have been no Prussia, and no powerful French state to launch unrelenting militarism against everybody else until Sedan. Britain would probably have been even more Atlanticist.

    Unfortunately, in Irish academia, currently, there is a strong urge to persist with the centralized unaccountable power mentality. Within Irish academia, only Professor Joe Lee grasps that the current model is completely non-functioning, and ineffective.

    Though, vast swathes of the population, without any benefit of academic study have already figured it out. Even people with rudimentary secondary school education have sussed it.

    Ireland’s Richelieuvian power concept is deeply flawed, and needs to be dumped. The advocates of French style republicanism refuse to see it as the problem, but instead advocate the same authority model, with a different set of slogans.

    Ireland should be learning from other similarly sized societies like Denmark, or the Dutch.

  15. Adelaide

    Instead of Western commentators/politicians twisting themselves in a knot with ‘blue sky’ analysis of the ‘geo-political’ yackety-yack bla-bla-bla they should simply sit down, take a couple of days off and read the Koran, the Hadith and the Sira. The Paris outrage and the multitude of violent outrages that will soon become a regular feature in Europe is all there in the original source material. Alas, reading the original ‘holy’ texts, the source behind all these outrages would put Western politicians etc in an awkward position. They would be compelled by decent civilised common-sense to denounce the Koran. Instead, they are cowards and with their weasel words and actions they betray the millennia of generations of Europeans who have painstakingly built up this modern civilisation that they now so cheaply discard. Hello Sweden, Goodbye Europe.

    • DB4545

      It’s an interesting article direct and to the point on a subject that is rarely confronted in this part of the world. The responses are equally interesting drawing interesting comparisons with European history and religious schisms over many centuries. How does this help our Citizens when they are looking at the business end of an AK47? Does the Irish State have any realistic mechanisms in place to protect its Citizens when the menace which hit Paris reaches our shores? Senior members of our defence forces think not. What mechanisms need to be put in place as a matter of urgency? Has the European gun control culture effectively disarmed EU Citizens and made them extremely vulnerable to terrorism?

    • Deco

      Christopher Hitches has made the following clip, concerning his assessment.

      He cuts through butter with a hot knife. Many parallels with Mormonism.

  16. Deco

    An interesting argument, involving Hitchens again.

    Actually, Dennis Praeger makes very intelligent arguments, concerning the intellectual dishonesty that exists.

  17. The cleric mentioned in this article Abd al Wahhab impacted his version of the language of Islam and this has become relevant in the World today .His words and interpretations form a ‘mindset’ that entraps the followers to do just that and not allowed to ask any questions .

    We in Ireland since the formation of the State have also ‘a cleric’ in the guise as ‘bureaucracy’ and the mindsets impacted by the State are ‘ official words’ in the First Language namely Irish in accordance with its own ‘Koran’ known as ‘ De Bhaldraithe ‘ . Original words in the State are ignored because the State bible of ‘ de valdrahe’ does not include them . What is the logic of two words for Taxi when Taxi is in fact originally an Irish word .Because Tascai is included in the state bible for no matter what reason then that stands and tourist are led to believe in the confusion between the conflicting names that one must be a black economy .

  18. dwalsh

    Good article David.
    It is curious how the West is allied with the most backward Islamic nations and demonises and bombs and invades the most advanced and secular (not claiming they are as advanced as we are; of course not).

    Remember those absurd ‘Friends of Syria’ charades put on by Hillary Clinton, where all the rhetoric was of freedom and democracy, and sitting next to Hillary was a Saudi prince; in a dress. I don’t know how anyone can take the foreign policies of the Washington regime seriously or on face value.

    The news from Saudi Arabia today is that a young poet is to be executed for renouncing Islam.

    • coldblow

      ‘and bombs and invades the most advanced and secular’

      I suppose being secular might be seen as evidence of advancement but it is arguable (translation: I’d argue against it). Admittedly, some of them have a bit further to go to get gay marriage and gender fluidity. The gender fluidity is very important because it means you can vary your gender with your moods and the time of day. Its equivalent in motoring might be the ‘facility’ to adjust your side mirrors by using knobs on the dashboard. I don’t know how you can get more advanced than that but I’m sure somebody’s working on it.

    • Bankers dilemma solved.

      Look at the history of the leaders of those destroyed countries.
      Saddam said he was going to trade oil in Euros thus threatening to weaken the reserve currency to US dollar.
      Qaddafi said he would make the Islamic gold Dinar a Pan African coin of trade. This threatened both the US dollar and the fiat Paper Ponzi money the US and the rest of us use.

      BANG, Bang, you’r dead. Both of them. Syria? It is a pipeline wanted through to transport ME oil to Europe, but Assad is a friend of Russia who would lose the monopoly to supply oil to Northern Europe.

      Remember it was the bankers who destroyed the Romanov’s of Russia providing Lenin with 6 million in gold and he was given free passage across Europe in the middle of WW1 to fund the uprising.
      Putin may encourage their reinstatement as titular head of the country.

      • Grzegorz Kolodziej

        And even more intriguing story was with Trotsky, who – at some stage – was financed by Wall Street. I have to say I read a few biographies of Trotsky and the man was so daft that Soviet Union under him would have probably been even worse in the 20s (he was against NEP, the core of his theories were shoved to him by German intelligence through an officer called Parvus, and even Lenin thought Trotsky was too cruel).
        There is one thing which united all of them guys though (Trotsky, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, etc) – they never worked.

        • StephenKenny

          That’s not quite true. Hitler work for a short while, not very successfully, as a townscape painter for post cards etc. Rather predictably I’ve always thought, Lenin took a law degree, and worked for a while in a lawyer’s practice.

          • Grzegorz Kolodziej

            That’s right – Hitler was selling his watercolour postcards; allegedly he ended up as homeless at some stage, though so much about his pre-fame period is unknown. Now, mind you, he only started doing it when his inheritance money ended – and even then he would not look for any work below him. In fairness to him, he was a brave soldier in WWI, so I suppose this should count as work.
            I read Mein Kampf, but his account of his life in there must be quite biased, so I suppose that Kubizek’s “The Young Hitler I Knew: The Memoirs of Hitler’s Childhood Friend” would be, perhaps, more objective. BTW, in Mein Kampf he writes that initially he wanted to joined the Social-Democrats and was canvassing among workers, but then he realised that he would never make a career in that party, because it was full of Jews, whatever his memory of it is worth (Goebbels was even more flexible – he had a Jewish girlfriend at some stage).

            I was a bit surprised when I found out Hitler painted Mother Mary with a child (for money or for himself?)…

            There is lots of bizarre things about people remembering Hitler, such lots of people saying he had blue eyes while in fact he had rather dark eyes:


            I would disagree with calling Lenin’s failed practice work. First of all, he had plenty of other sources of financing at the time (bear in mind that his family was, as he would say, filthy rich, about which few people know) and his lawyer’s practice was only a cover story for his other activities.
            Secondly, Lenin was a complete failure as a lawyer – he lost all his 6 cases (and he only got that job through his ins and outs in first place). Calling that work would be as far fetched as saying I was working for the Irish Independent (because I have published a few letter and opinions).

            I suppose I am being a bit unfair to Trotsky – he did have that writing career, but again – this was not his main or even secondary source of income.

            As to Stalin, well, he was robbing banks, so I suppose it’s an occupation – and he was also in a priest seminary, from which he was thrown out for his satanism. I have to say Stalin’s treatment of his mother was really disgraceful, but in the 20s it was Stalin who was most moderate in foreign politics (i.e. he was against Lenin and Trotsky’s plans of invasion).

  19. CitizenWhy

    The poet in Saudi Arabia condemned to death claims he is a practicing Muslim and that he is being put to death because he offended the religious police with a video on YouTube. He has not been allowed to get a lawyer.

    Does anyone outside the US really believe that US military actions are about installing democracy and freedom? If so, why would the US not invade Saudi Arabia?

    • dwalsh

      Yes I agree.
      I know lots of people who really do believe the Washington regime’s rhetoric about freedom & democracy. I’m sure we all do (know lots of people who believe it). They get quite upset if you question it.

  20. ” If a country is trying to be a leading global power and economic giant, excluding half its population seems a bit daft.”

    Saudi Arabia is a giant oil well with little other business activity. It is run by a a cabal of medieval autocratic princelings who is prop up the rest of the economy with huge subsidies.

    They have a deal with the US to sell oil based on US dollars in return for being protected by the the, from the, US war machine.

    The US in return is being run by the central banker cabal that controls the US dollar via the Federal Reserve. The central banker cabal dictate policy to the US and western governments that is designed to continue the fiat money system that allows the banker elites to skim the profits of the world into their own pockets.

    You refuse to follow the money trail far enough and distract us all with details that do not address the actual problems we all have.

    Can you not see the overall results of these policies is to create havoc in middle east and other countries. drive millions into desperation and feed them with the idea of invading Europe. Migrants are encourage to maintain their own culture while the once stable European countries are told to be multi cultural.

    Now you have Europe who while trying to assimilate cultural differences with a union are split apart with increased multicultural demands.

    The desired goal is to have the stable western industrial democracies converted to authoritarian rule. Thus the leaders are more easily controlled and out of the chaos comes the case for one world government. This will be a cashless society and we will all have combination credit/id cards issued. The only way to function then other than as a slave will be outside the system.

    It will be a total black market in food, housing , jobs , social benefits and healthcare and land ownership for those who try to opt out of the system of total enthrallment.

    Yes by all means follow the money but do not stop half way along the trail diverted by a false scent laid by those who wish to confuse the issues.

    • DB4545

      Adam Byrne

      Thanks for the link Adam. A very good article. It’s not as if the US has a shortage of Intelligence analysts. Putin actually comes across as a voice of reason and moderation when compared to the West. The US, the EU and Russia need to get their shit together and act in unison before this menace gets out of control. I understand that Putin said it’s up to God to judge these lunatics he just needs to make sure they’re dead so they can’t harm innocents. That works for me.

      • The Yanks and Russians are responsible for the death of far more innocents than ISIS are.

        • DB4545

          They’re certainly not angels Adam but who is? If you arm people to the teeth for a couple of generations to start shitfests and then open the world’s borders you can hardly be surprised if some of it turns up on your doorstep. I take some consolation from the fact that even ISIS show some signs of being in touch with reality. They picked a Volkswagen Polo to drive from Belgium to Paris despite the bad PR with emissions. Even ISIS had more sense than to hire a Renault or a Citroen. There may be some hope for humanity.

          • Deco

            In other words, in the truest sense of Irish literature, and multiple meanings in the one phrase….the Beetle-box is helping them get around Europe…..with a to the Pastor’s daughter, of course……….

          • DB4545

            The pastor’s daughter has no daughters or sons of her own. If you don’t have a stake in the future why would you care about anyone else’s future? Angela’s legions will overwhelm us if we don’t get this under control soon.

  21. redriversix

    where do i start..?

    A Solution ?… have a solution , you firstly have to acknowledge you have a..[or are] the problem…..and that has not happened.

    if America is the big should the couch be ?..Or now that the rest of the West has lost its way should they be invited ?..therefore , is the couch to small ?. …perhaps 28 chairs in circles ?. It could be a support group.

    But wait..!!! to seek must first ask for help. It seems America still wants to blame everyone else , therefore not taking responsibility for her Actions…she is continually making the same mistakes time and time again expecting a different result………& like every family with a addict sibling or parent….it is the Family who suffer whilst the addict runs amok

    …then every couple of months [ years in this case } the addict goes through a really rough patch and begs forgiveness , promises to stop their destructive behaviour and seek help...

    The family are suspicious but someone always loves them that little bit too much...and the addict buys more time and starts using again [ or starts using more]….

    I am not forgetting about the other 28 patients But they are just clinging to Libertys coattails..LiBERTY GETS SOBER.?.THE REST[WEST] WILL LEARN TO STAND ON THEIR OWN & get well

    the west has lost its morale has lost its way..certainly over the last 25 years…drunk ON power and the promise of riches since the collapse of the USSR…with no one to stop us ? we can do what we want…..and we did and they did

    Lady Liberty turned into the Whore of Babylon and we her willing nymphs…….

    not one action…..Military or otherwise has been done with the goal of liberation or Justice and equality for all.

    it has been done with the mindset of a addict…to gain, to manipulate , to control ..and when it goes bad .. ? play the victim and how those attacking the addict are doing so because of jealousy…..

    Over the years as addiction becomes worse ..,the company addicts keep changes.they become less fussy..they will drink with anyone who will make their behaviour seem normal..until eventually you end up with the worst kind of company…in this case Al Queda.. , Isis, Al Nusri etc.

    Fortunately their is help available..but you have to want to get well before you can ask for help.

    Lady Liberty has not hit her “Rock Bottom” yet

    Until then, the family will have to let her go and stop enabling her..even if it hurts the family.

    I miss America


    • coldblow

      Peter Hitchens argues that there is no such thing as addiction. He thinks people got the idea from films like the French Connection.

  22. redriversix

    Peter Hitchens is full of shit……

    but i appreciate the comment.

    • coldblow

      He won’t be happy if I tell him that, you know.

      I think he is right about it, though.

      I wonder if you could say the same thing about about depression.

      This brings me to one of my favourite Wiki pages, that for John Waters.

      I’m glad at least this part of his entry is more or less unchanged since I last read it.

      ‘Blogging Controversy

      During a newspaper review on radio station Newstalk 106 Waters declared blogs and bloggers to be “stupid”. [I like that 'declared to be' - see below] He then repeated those claims the following week, sparking controversy amongst Irish bloggers, who took exception to his views.

      ‘Homophobia Accusations

      On 11 January 2014, Waters was mentioned by Irish drag queen Panti (Rory O’Neill) on RTE’s Saturday Night Show with Brendan O’Connor while discussing homophobia… RTE paid monies to Waters and others mentioned.

      ‘RTE received hundreds of complaints about the issue. A rally against the payout and censorship drew 2000 people, and the appropriateness of the payout was later discussed by members of the Oireachtas. The issue was also discussed in the European Parliament…

      ‘Comments on depression

      ‘In April 2014, Waters replied when asked if he had become depressed because of the reaction to his actions over RTE and Rory O’Neill: “There’s no such thing. It’s an invention. It’s bullshit. It’s a cop out.”

      ‘He was criticised by many, including Paul Kelly, founder of the suicide prevention charity Console, guidance counsellor Eamon Keane, journalist Suzanne Harrington (whose late husband suffered from depression), gay rights activist Panti, charity campaigner Majella O’Donnell as well as online commenters.

      ‘His former partner Sinéad O’Connor expressed concern for John Waters, saying that she thought he was suffering from depression and needed to admit it.’

      The reference numbers only add to the comedy. Anyone who doesn’t think this is funny has a heart of stone.

      A final word about the Wikipedes’ writing style. It’s like they are using John Allen’s ‘substrate language’. I first tumbled it at a school quiz a few years ago where many of the questions had an odd turn of phrase and had to be repeated because nobody knew what they were saying. Afterwards, acting on a hunch, I looked them up and saw they had been lifted straight out of Wiki.

      • Deco

        Pravda (RTE) no longer know where reality ends and the soap opera begins.

        Their main function is to prevent discussion of the power of oligarchs in Irish life.

      • Home Counties Girl

        Hey ColdBlow,

        What’s your take on this by Peter Hitchens ‘Really want to beat terror? Then calm down and THINK – do you agree with him?

        • Not a bad one from Hitchens for a change, thanks Home Counties Girl.

          • DB4545

            Adam Byrne & Home Counties Girl

            Both articles give an interesting analysis. Al Murray (the pub landlord) gave a similar analysis in one of his shows. He said instead of giving middle eastern Countries cute names like Syria or Saudi Arabia or Iran or Iraq or Libya we could have called them Royal Dutch Shell or British Petroleum or Exxon or Texaco or Elf. That structure is imploding at the moment hence the huge social disruption and dislocation.

            I think the West is pretty calm and thinks quite a lot. I think there are lots of nice home county girls and boys(and quite a few in the counties around Cheltenham) doing lots of thinking at the moment. I imagine the same type of thinking is taking place in other similar communities globally.

            There will come a time when action is required. That action may take the form of a highly curated crusade on key targets in an attempt to show “sensitivity”. But it won’t be any less murderous than any other war of attrition and lots of innocents will die. War is hell.

          • Home Counties Girl

            You are most welcome Adam. And thank you too for sharing the “Ending Blowback Terrorism” piece.

        • coldblow

          I find I agree with him about most things although I don’t share his liking for films, to put it mildly. He is one of the few journalists who use their memory and compares what is being proposed now with what was done in the past. The bravado of Je Suis Charlie didn’t get them very far.

          He has pointed out that two years ago Britain wanted to bomb Assad, following the highly probable false flag ‘bombing of his own people’ by Assad. Now they want to go bombing again, but the opposite side this time. How does that work?

          By the way, the drive to *do* rather than to understand is a pronounced extravert thing. A few years ago Red Rive Six (who offers his opionion of Hitchens above) seemed to be unemployed and was complaining about his extreme frustration, saying that he had to JUST DO SOMETHING. I asked him what exactly he had in mind.

          This 1 minute video of Ed. Sec. Michael Gove is most instructive.

          I actually urged Hitchens to watch it as it throws light on what he is up against. He was frustrated after the debate in the House of Commons two years ago which blocked the bombing of Assad. As you can see he is *very* emotional.

          I came across it early last year as I was looking at video of Gove trying to work out if he was an extravert or not (I have since realized that the big majority of politicians, journalists and other publicly prominent professions are of the extravert persuasion). I was doing this as I wanted to work out what made him tick so I could understand why he is clearly committed to comprehensive education yet decided to send his daughter to an ultra-posh school which can be described as a comprehensive only in the way that 10 Downing St can be described as an inner-city terraced house.

          (Gove’s behaviour can be seen in many other striking parallels, including how our media and political elite (in Ireland as well as in Britain, Sweden, France, US and everywhere else) is genuinely committed to mass immigration and yet is not itself affected (not yet, but will be) by its consequences. I have discussed this with MB4545 here, in relation to the Travellers’ halting sites, but he makes fewer excuses for them than I do.)

          Anyway, I like Hitchens (‘The Hated Peter Hitchens’) because I’d never come across a columnist, or indeed anyone at all, who shares my world view. I was visiting my sister in Ipswich in 2012 and bought the Mail on Sunday to find out who they had as a columnist in the place the Irish had John Waters. So I was sittig at the kitchen table reading Hitchens for the first time and he was talking about how somebody got arrested in the London Olympics because he aroused suspicion because he was not smiling.

          Well, who couldn’t laugh at that? My sister asked me who I was reading and when I told her who it was and what I thought she asked me, ‘Are you being ironic?’ Her husband (God rest him) muttered darkly that Hitchens was a bigot, while my nephew told me that we weren’t allowed to bring the Mail into the house.

          And who says life isn’t funny?

          By the way, if you read the excerpt from Waters’s Wiki entry which I typed out above you will see that the Irish blogging community, whom Waters had mocked, joined in in the denunciation of his Depression Denial. As did Panti, some woman I’ve never heard of and Daniel O’Donnell’s wife! (Waters, having been attacked by the Irish Times for defending his reputation (described in Wiki, ludicrously, as ‘censorship’) and stabbed in the back by a colleague and friend of his from Ballaghaderreen (who he’d got a job on the paper) who was sending out malicious tweets under an alias was interviewed by a blonde airhead from the Sindo who asked him, gormlessly, if he was ‘depressed’.)

          I’m reading Don Quixote at the moment and it is hilarious, but whichever wikipede wrote that is (albeit quite unconsciously) every bit as gifted.

          • coldblow

            that was addressed to HomeCounties girl, Adam.

            I saw your Facebook link about the refugees and it is a perfect example of what goes on there.

        • coldblow

          Other elements in the Wiki article which raises it to greatness include putting “stupid” in inverted commas, the use of the word ‘appropriateness’ and the factoid that the case had been discussed by ‘members of the Oireachtas’ and in the European Parliament. That this purports to be serious and informative puts it firmly in the tradition of Cervantes. Indeed, the author (or authors – even better) outdoes him.

          Sinead O’Connor’s comment is merely the punchline.

          As I have said before, Wiki has its uses, eg pointless trivia such as the weight of the Leaning Tower of Pisa in metric tonnes (I’m not making this up) or learning how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall. Now I know Waters’s case was discussed in the European Parliament and I am grateful for the education.

          • Home Counties Girl

            Cheers CB,

            Pretty long-winded, you’ve not answered the question though. On this occasion do you agree with Peter Hitchens’s assessment? You’ve skipped around ‘yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir’ without actually addressing the content from that particular piece by him (I’m sure you’re mulling over whether I’m an extrovert/Introvert – which is pointless, you should carry out your own personal audit).

            I’m pretty neutral with Hitchens myself, I think he makes some valid points at times and he certainly is not beige in his views, but I wouldn’t find myself agreeing to most of his thoughts – however I think in this piece he’s nailed it.

            C’est la vie

          • coldblow

            Of course I answered the question. What exactly is the sense in rushing off to bomb people if it was the other side you were going to bomb only two years ago? I also agree that most of this security stuff is worse than useless.

            The other detail was for the edification of anyone who might happen to be reading this blog and who understands “where I’m coming from”, as the cliché goes.

            I learnt long ago that there is no point trying to explain any of this to extraverts as they, almost by definition, don’t, can’t or won’t get it. I assumed from the start you were another (if only because the big majority of bloggers are) and everything you have said since supports that opinion, so there’s no need for mulling.

            You might agree with Hitchens now but when the next wave of mass hysteria breaks against the shore any thoughts of stopping and thinking will be thrown to the wind as you chase off after the ‘Let’s do something, anything!’ crowd. (See DB’s post above as an example.)

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          Home Counties Girl,

          I would disagree with that one from Peter’s article:

          “how many stupid things have been said about them. Remember the long period of macho chest-thumping in which they were idiotically derided as ‘Cheese-eating surrender monkeys’ and it was claimed you couldn’t find any French military victories on the internet?”

          I would say that most, probably all French 20th century adventures and plans after WWI were botched and resulted in a disaster for them and for other countries. From breaking the military agreement with Poland in 1939 (the French also did not tell the Poles about the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact, which they knew from the US – Hitler put forward his demands convinced that the Allies passed on that information), which allowed Hitler to have a free hand in Poland and gave him a year to recoup forces and smash France, through Algeria, through various botched military operation and supporting the Arab Spring, to selling guns to ISIS (French arms exports jumped last year).

          There is another aspect to the conflict in the Middle East Peter does not mention (otherwise I agree with his theses): if the war against Iran was brewed because Israel was afraid that Iran would develop nuclear weapons, then there was one simple solution to the nuclear threat: make the Middle East the non-nuclear zone with inspectors having right to inspect it and appropriate agreements being signed. But that would mean Israel would have to let the inspectors in…

          But this is how big politics works – hypocrisy and smoke screens…

      • redriversix

        Evening CB

        I don’t rate John Waters at all…addiction is real..not that i want anyone to try and find out..depression is real..ditto

        Micheal Gove ? Assad…dictator ..? poor use of punctuation..? so much to take in………

        2001 = 1100 terrorist attacks worldwide.

        2014 = 18547 terrorist attacks.

        The mythical War On Terror is a failure , therefore a success as it can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

        Assad a dictator…maybe. I am not his defender or Judge..but i cannot remember the name of a Country he or Gaddafi invaded over the last 14

        Saudi Arabia funds Isis or Isil or Daesh or whatever your having yourself.

        America & UK have been selling arms to Saudi and any other tinpot crackpot for years.

        18 alleged hijackers from Saudi Arabia on 9/11 Saudi Osama..?

        It appears over the last several weeks and certainly over the last 8 days or so that white people are worth more than coloured people..

        tune in next week as the West goes further into the bizarre and unreal alternate universe where the West has done absolutely nothing wrong since 1945 & still cannot understand why we are being picked on.


        In World War 2 …Japanese-americans were interned for the duration but German-Americans or Italian Americans were not.

        why. ?

        John Allen..Hi.. you write really lovely…but i have no clue as to what you are talking about..not a insult…could be a reflection on the Finishing school i attended ??…..we shall see.


        • coldblow


          ‘It appears over the last several weeks and certainly over the last 8 days or so that white people are worth more than coloured people.’

          I don’t know what you are talking about (like the rest of your post) but I suppose it’s the round-up of terrorist suspects. Are you proposing then, in the interests of fairness, that they arrest a few dozen water protesters from Balbriggan for the Paris attack?

          As for your comments about the Japanese-Americans, this is a fashionable statement these days. I know next to nothing about it. Perhaps they weren’t integrating to the same extent as the Germans?

          • CitizenWhy

            Japanese Americans were fully integrated. The sons of many interred were fighting in the US army at the time. it is possible that interring them saved many from racist mob violence, a common occurrence by white guys in the USA. In almost all cases never prosecute in those days.

          • coldblow


            You may very well be right. I don’t really care at the moment. My point to RR6 is that the ‘What about the Japanese Americans?’ question is a fashionable one nowadays.

            What interests me is why it is fashionable and why certain people (or rather ‘class of person’) would want to raise it.

        • Home Counties Girl

          Cool ColdBlow,

          You’re right. You don’t have anything to explain except a half-baked theory on ‘extraverts’. I’m happy to listen to both sides of an argument and quite enjoy Peter Hitchens in motion, but I never stop questioning. The last 14 + years with the wrath of ‘The War on Terror’ have made things worse (FAR WORSE) and by prescribing more bombs only strengthens their cause, if you don’t get how their PR machine works then you need to adjust your view rather than dropping people into unqualified ‘introvert’ or ‘extravert’ pens – far too black and white, and actually quite a tired way to view people (as you learnt a long time ago), especially in this digital age (I’ve pretty much got an insight of which demographic box you tick).

          I’m pressed for time as work calls. But as I’ve previously stated – I am in Cork on Thursday and Dublin on Friday then back in Cork on Saturday, I can afford an hour here or there to meet up for a coffee and have a mini conversation on recent musings.

          Warm wishes

          • coldblow


            I’d be interested in what demographic box you think I tick. Go on, surprise me!

            ‘Half-baked theory’ – it’s worse than that. It’s a one-man theory, although the initial insight was provided by the well-known Australian psychologist and author of books about depression, Dorothy Rowe. I have just run with her insight and have seen what turned up.

            It is interesting precisely because it is black and white, something one would really not expect in this day and age where the ‘continuum’ rules.

            Rowe wrote that she had never come across a couple who were not made up of one extravert and one intravert. I can confirm this. Nobody else seems to have followed up on this insight.

            You are quite right, I am totally unqualified in this field. As a teenager I had an intense and brief interest in psychology (Jung in particular) and decided that I wanted to study it. I even thought I’d be a brilliant psychologist as I was academically way ahead of the rest of my grammar school year. Then I forgot all about it until I started university where I quickly decided that the course was a load of rubbish.

            It is perfectly reasonable to estimate the chance of any ambitious one-man theory to end up crumble in dust. The trouble with this one is that the evidence keeps proving it. I am curious, however, how someone as astute as Rowe didn’t see what I see. Again the smart money should be on her being right in the end.

            I did look up Jung again, more than 40 years after reading (about) his theories and I was surprised at how astute he in turn was. (He invented the words extravert and introvert.) He obviously saw what I see. By the way, he was an extravert himself, which surprised me.

            As regards qualifications, a great deal of what passes as psychology seems to be nonsense. By the way, I switched on the radio yesterday for about 10 seconds, time to hear David saying that ecnomics is all about pscyhology. He is right, but he is unlikely to appreciate my view, being an extravert himself.

          • coldblow

            If you want to see how I have argued using my theory then I posted here under my real name (it’s obvious who I am):


            The moderators didn’t do me any favours by not publishing my first comment, which gave the psychological background and then (or so at least I remember it) by later withdrawing a comment where I mocked Michael Hennigan (an extravert himself, clearly) and substituting for it a comment I had already submitted but which hadn’t been published, so it looks as if I keep repeating myself.

            I really enjoyed looking up Philip Legrain’s website and see him confirm all the extravert traits I had expected to find there. This is at the end, where I argue with a naive open borders utopian (again an extravert) who is, as usual, a True Believer.

    • Robert Fisk says that the Arabs want ‘ our lands’ not the lands carved out by the West . This seems logical to all Arabs. The word ‘our’ embraces the fundamentals of trust between man to man and ‘trust’ follows and subsequently economies evolve and grow and ‘banks’ reappear again.

      History of earliest man in his own animal nature has a fundamental need that must be satisfied and nothing will be allowed to stop that instinct.This must be recognised by the West and new thinking to resolve those issues in those lands otherwise the lands in the West will also be part of a new entity that will not be recognisable from before.

      When you feed a tiger give him meat not your head.

      • ‘Our’ Words ( from Book of Muckross)

        We in Ireland have used this powerful word since first man arrived and continue to-date . The following words we use linguistically hold that word as part of what it means :

        Sinn Féin

        Sean Nos

        Shannon River

        Until we understand ‘our words’ and what they truely mean we end up with a warp mindset that goes nowhere .

  23. redriversix

    Excellent Article Adam. I have to say i am a big fan of Robert Fisk.

    I agree with his writings & opinion.

    Hope all well with you on “island in de sun” ?


    • Yeah it was a very good article Barry, Fisk is always on the ball.

      All good out here, back in Ireland next weekend for a couple of months, got to spend Christmas with my Mum.

  24. Money is soon to be no cash. Be assured ISIS uses Bitcoin to transfer millions (my supposition). Negative interest rates will be assured by the bankers as savers and pensions are destroyed.

    • redriversix

      Hey Tony

      Hope your well.

      Your information about finance, Banks, money & gold but after 8 years ,War is over baby….Banks won…people kaput.

      Banks stronger than ever..Governments weaker than Generation wouldn’t know shit from sugar but can reprogram a ipad.

      The greatest Weapon ? DEBT…and it has won..Countries so full of debt, leaders have to ask to take a piss..People so dumb and indebted ,…freedom of choice is gone .

      Therefore no one can rock the boat.

      I am not giving up or despondent or anything , just the facts.

      I said 5 years ago that debt is the 21st century version of slavery and it has come to pass and is working very well

      I win every day because i am alive , my family is good and we are ok today.

      My international work is finished…took a contract with a Irish company last week..see how it works far so good….Family happier if i am closer to home.

      Hope your leg feels better. ?.Austin doing some really good work , he is a magnificent example of how humans can be.

      Anywho..keep the faith stay warm

      Remember the Army Tenth Man principle in planning ?

      9 Men pick plan A..? Tenth Man has to go with plan B …to argue & debate

      • Hope your well.

        I am very well Sir Barry. Thanks

        Your information about finance, Banks, money & gold but after 8 years ,War is over baby….Banks won…people kaput.
        Banks stronger than ever..Governments weaker than Generation wouldn’t know shit from sugar but can reprogram a ipad.

        The war is not over. It has been waged for a 1000 years not 8!!! But we have a chance to educate the masses as we have instant communications available to the world for the first time ever. You and every individual can win your own battle. Collectively the larger battles will be won and then the war will be won. Remember, I was told, freedom is never attained, it is constantly being striven for.

        The greatest Weapon ? DEBT…and it has won..Countries so full of debt, leaders have to ask to take a piss..People so dumb and indebted ,…freedom of choice is gone .

        Debt transfers wealth from the borrower to the lender. Do not borrow unless you can guarantee the profit is greater than the expense.

        Nobody addresses the issue of Debt based money. 98% (all except coin) is issued as a loan. That is all out money adds up to a giant IOU. Do you understand that Barry? Does anyone understand? The problem cannot be solved if the the problem is not understood.

        Therefore no one can rock the boat.
        I am not giving up or despondent or anything , just the facts.
        I said 5 years ago that debt is the 21st century version of slavery and it has come to pass and is working very well.

        Why is it slavery Barry?

        I win every day because i am alive , my family is good and we are ok today.

        I am glad you are alive and kicking. I am happy for you and your family. I hope you can make a living closer to home where you can enjoy the companionship.
        My international work is finished…took a contract with a Irish company last week..see how it works far so good….Family happier if i am closer to home.

        Hope your leg feels better. My leg is chronic, Barry. The damge done from the twist is healed. I go up and down stairs and ladders and move about the boat. The Arthritis is there and the rheumatism but I still do what I can when I can so I believe in the maxim of use it or lose it. No complaints!!

        ?.Austin doing some really good work , he is a magnificent example of how humans can be.

        Much agreed. He is tops.

        Anywho..keep the faith stay warm.

        Unshakable once convinced!! :)

        Remember the Army Tenth Man principle in planning ?
        9 Men pick plan A..? Tenth Man has to go with plan B …to argue & debate

        Following the crowd will get you run over the cliff, every time, Barry. Other times one gets run over by the crowd but hopefully not trampled.

        This is what the bankers have been doing for 1000′s of years

        You’r a good Man. I do not forget it.

  25. Don’t forget to hate refugees as you set up a nativity scene.

    Celebrating a Middle Eastern couple desperately looking for shelter.

  26. Deco

    From Max Keiser, on Kilkennomics.

    Constantin is a legend.

    The Dublin housing market is bottlenecked. The supply of second hand cars is bottlenecked.

    Gurdgiev says one sentence that tells the ultimate truth about the situation. The wrong entities are being taxed.

    He could have added that the taxes are sent in the wrong direction, when spent, also. But that would have resulted in all out war from the institutional state.

  27. CitizenWhy

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

    H. L. Mencken

  28. CitizenWhy

    Wikileaks documents detail/prove that Saudi Arabia is funding terrorist organizations. of course the USA has known this for many, many years, pretends it isn’t so, or that piddling “reforms” have eliminated the problem. Russia also knows, is not fooled.

  29. [...] Behr's reaction to James Corbyn's reactions to Paris shootings is worth reading. A brief history lesson on the roots of Islamic terror by David McWilliams. Wall Street Journal on the buyback boom in [...]

  30. Looks like Trump has gone off the deep end:

    “Donald Trump calls to ban all Muslims from entering US”

    Whether you agree with him or not, it’s just not a viable election strategy.

    He may as well hand victory to Clinton.

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