May 21, 2015

There is gold in them there shoals, so why are we not reeling it in?

Posted in Irish Independent · 66 comments ·
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Brave fishermen from Dingle saved five Scottish fishermen whose trawler got into difficulty off the Atlantic coast yesterday. The Scots were brought safely to Kerry and are fine now.

But what were they doing fishing off the coast of Dingle? Why weren’t they off the coast of Scotland, either in the far North Atlantic off the Hebrides or deep in the North Sea off Aberdeen?

They are fishing in Irish waters because that’s where the fish are. Irish waters are amongst the richest in the world.

The rest of Europe can fish our waters because one of the conditions we signed up to on entering the EEC in 1973 was giving away large tracts of our fishing rights in Irish territorial waters. We are allocated only 20pc of the total catch in Irish waters. I will come back to that decision later, but before I do that, let’s just examine the massive opportunity that exists in fishing – even if our dismal quota remains the same.

Fisheries are among the most underdeveloped of all Ireland’s natural industries, yet without doubt they have the highest growth potential.

In fact, a changed attitude to fishing could transform the economy of the entire western seaboard and, by transforming the economy of the western seaboard, fishing and fish processing could change the economic, demographic and cultural landscape of the entire country.

The Atlantic Ocean is our most valuable resource.

Fish is the future and fish processing, adding value to the catch of the sea, could be the industry of the next 100 years. Ireland could become the European hub for fish processing.

We could land the Atlantic’s fish in Ireland, process it in the west and fly it out to the rest of Europe.

At the moment, Spanish, Scottish, French and Norwegian trawlers make the expensive and time-consuming return journey from the fishing beds of the West coast, catching their load and shipping it back to La Coruna, Le Rochelle or Oslo rather than landing it in Kerry, Galway or Donegal where it could be processed. This is a massive opportunity.

Currently, 1.2 million tonnes of fish are caught in Irish waters per year. This is the EU’s annual cap on the amount of fish that can be caught in the entirety of Ireland’s territorial waters. Therefore, only 20pc, or 250,000 tonnes, of Irish fish is landed in Ireland. The rest goes abroad.

Of this 250,000 tonnes, only 50,000 tonnes are actually processed in Ireland. Processing is where the value is added. Exporting frozen fish gives someone else the value. It is the equivalent of giving the stuff away for someone else to make money from it.

Therefore, 200,000 tonnes of Irish fish are exported with absolutely no value added. This is a waste. It is the maritime equivalent of exporting live beef from Ireland, which was the staple of Irish agriculture in the 1950s, 60s and 70s – when we were poor.

So rather than being a sophisticated industry, Irish fisheries is still a commodity business, characterised by low levels of investment; it doesn’t have to be like that.

Irish agriculture was like this in the 1970s but now we have large food companies, using the most modern technology, exporting expensive processed food all around the globe.

Irish fisheries could be the same.

In the next 15 years, the global demand for fish is expected to surge as three billion new consumers, particularly in Asia, who have always preferred fish to meat, begin to spend on higher-protein sources of food.

The World Health Organisation estimates that the world will need 32 million extra tonnes of fish per year by 2030. It also estimates that the price of fish and sea food will rise by 25pc by 2020 – that’s only five years away.

China alone could eat the entire Irish annual catch, 250,000 tonnes, in three days and it’s not just foreigners who want more fish. In Ireland, fish consumption is set to rise as more and more people understand how healthy it is. The capacity for this is significant when you think that right now, Irish people only eat 21kgs of seafood per year. Compare this with 70kgs for Japanese, 34kgs for French and 33kgs for Chinese.

If Ireland can exploit the true potential of our territorial waters, this country can transform its western seaboard into the fish-processing hub of the whole of Europe.

Rather than make the long journey back to Galicia, Spanish trawlers would land their catch in Dingle or Castletownbere, where it could be processed and flown out via Cork overnight to Spain.

Similarly, Kilkeel could be such a port in Clare, using Shannon to transport the fish, and Killybegs using either Donegal or Knock airports to be in France, Spain or indeed London the next day.

At the moment, the Irish industry is only processing 5pc of total catch in Irish waters. This is a travesty and is a function of the very poor deal negotiated in 1972 and the failure of the industry here to invest in scale.

Whether we like it or not, scale is the key to expanding the business because only with scale can we get the investment necessary to compete.

At the moment, few Irish companies in the fish business have turnovers of more than €1m. Contrast this with Norway, where one company, Marine Harvest, is valued at over €3bn.

Finally, there is the EU and our dreadful deal we negotiated. The general feeling is that Irish fishermen were sacrificed for Irish farmers – what the EU gave to the farmers it took away from the fishermen.

This shouldn’t surprise anyone, but what is unforgivable is that successive Irish governments haven’t sought to renegotiate as the evidence of the enormous riches of the Atlantic becomes ever more apparent.

What’s wrong with us?

But now we have a European opportunity, given to us by the Eurosceptic British.

In the coming months, Britain will seek to renegotiate much of its relationship with the EU. Why not take advantage of this state of flux by revisiting the giveaway that was signed by Irish negotiators over 40 years ago?

But in order to be capable of taking advantage of any fishing bonanza, we have to be ready. Now is the time to invest in the real wealth of the country, which lies just off our coast.


  1. grougho

    Hi There,
    While I totally agree with the sentiment – I am afraid that the days of endless hauls are long over. Irish Fishing (largely due) to foreign trawlers literally raking the seabed is like most fisheries in massive decline – as documented in great detail by Callum Roberts in his book “The unnatural History of the Sea”.
    However as a model for stewardship and renewal (as well as the re-establishment of a viable ecosystem) nationalisation is surely the preferred option.
    Regards.

    • Deco

      If we nationalized the seas, then pompous gits like Suds (who wanted failed capitalist enterprises including AIB nationalised) who write op-ed pieces in the IT, telling us that we are a disgrace to ourselves.

      Which means that we are doing the right thing for ourselves and the “wrong” thing for him and his wealthy mates.

  2. Antaine

    Might be a silly question but Why does Adam always post “Subscribe” and will he be heartbroken that he missed the first post?
    Another silly question maybe? Is there a way to get email alerts of the discussion without posting and wasting the valuable seconds some people might waste reading this?
    Thanks :-)

  3. Deco

    The political parties who have dominated Ireland in recent decades (FF/FG/LP) are following the votes. There were more farmers than fishermen. They signed up for the deal that ultimately benefited them, and the overlayered institutional state that they have created. In other words, we see gombeenism at work. It really is that cheap.

    What is shocking is not the way they operated. This has become standard operating procedure for political cadres in the EEC/EC/EU at various stages. What is shocking is that they had zero value on what they ignored. In other words, it is astounding that they never grasped what was beyond the sea.

    And apart from the sparse permanent communities living along the Atlantic coastline, nobody really valued what was in the sea.

    Incidentally, we see this again in the Rossport saga.

    The agricultural benefits to EU membership were capped by various programs including the Dairy quota, which kept higher cost operators in Northern Europe in business, and pushed Irish agriculture into beef production. And that resulted in mega money for Larry Goodman.

    So effectively, Larry Goodman made a fortune, the farmers made varying amounts, and the politicians were able to preserve dynasties.

    This cannot continue. Atlantic Ireland is dying. Atlantic Scotland and Atlantic Spain are not.

    Hopefully, the fishermen will stick one of their own in the Dail. It is the first step towards rectification of Ireland’s interests.

    And hopefully we will have less of the grovelling after the next election, like we have seen from Cowen, Kenny, Gilmore, etc…

    • Deco

      I blame this solidly on hereditary political outfits. They are cheap to buy, whether it is in Spain, Greece, or Ireland. They are not interested in reforming the system, only living off a system, that is living off the people. The genius of the EU is that they realise how to buy up loyalty and obedience.

      If one wants to be free, then one must be prepared to pay the price in extra effort, extra diligence, more astute planning, and personal sacrifices.

      We have become a society that has programmed itself to disdain such concepts, and instead follow the easy path. Given a choice between pissups and planning, a dangerous proporition of our population chose pissups. And the rest of us will pay the price.

  4. Colin Jephson

    Certainly, the deal done in 1972 was a terrible one for the fishing industry. But I wonder if the opportunities are as large as you imply. exporting unprocessed fish may be inevitable if that’s the way shops and restaurants want it. Do we know what proportion of fish exported is subsequently processed in some way?

    And then there is the problem with supply, which is limited.

    To renegotiate a better deal with the EU would provide an improved outlook for the industry but how realistic is that? Our partners will not wish to open that issue any time soon.

    • Grzegorz Kolodziej

      Unfortunately it is not realistic due to Ireland’s membership in the EU, particularly with the government which is too soft to deal with Dublin Bus, let alone the combined fishy might of Germany, France and Spain. Take the case of Mr. Grzegorz Szomborg from Poland. He caught 30 salmons instead of trouts he was supposed to and was fined for that €75,000. The system imposed by the EU on Poland is arguably even worse than the one on Ireland (which is worse than many other countries) as fishermen are supposed to stay idle for 2 out of 3 years. For idle 3 years the EU pays compensation, but not even near as much as they would earn while fishing on Polish sea instead of their German colleagues (enough said that it is not enough to stay in business so it is a handy way for German fishermen to eliminate competition).

      To give some concrete examples that Poland has the worst limits of all EU countries: 80% of Polish fishermen income consist of cod, yet Poland has the lowest cod limits in the Baltic Sea while being the biggest country (i.e., Swedish limit is 250 tons and Polish 50 tons). For the last 5 years there had been 11,000 controls of Polish 790 vessels and only 51 of Finnish 3332. Germany and Frannce are the countries which benefit the most from undermining other countries indigenous industries and making peripheral countries a dumping ground for their products.

      Conclusion? Peripheral countries should form a coalition along with the UK against Germany and France…

  5. Deco

    One of the most insightful things that you can do with respect to Atlantic Ireland’s coast is travel in the middle of the week in the evening. It is frightening now many of the nice houses that you see are empty. Entire estates with maybe one house warm and lit. Modern houses too.

    Here we see once again, Irish banking, income disposal patterns, and capital misallocation in action. And of course, suburban social mores with respect to real estate, and the arms race in self-importance.

    This is the result of decades of building. loaning, and unsustainable wage increases from various sectors of the Irish economy, that are protected from competition by various forms of “regulation”, or oligopolistic market rigging.

    We see houses being built that are used maybe three weeks a year. [ unless they are owned by teachers]. And they are for bragging purposes in the suburban war of importance.

    Meanwhile the aquaculture sector is starved of capital compared to Norway or Scotland. And it is also regarded as a suitable host for a range of parasitic para-institutional state bodies, whose existence may well be to provide employment for party members. Well, that is what is happening in many sectors of the economy. Many of whom….probably aspire to having a holiday home in Lahinch.

    Interestingly enough, you don’t see this in Scotland. Nope the canny Scots have their money invested in projects that provide an income return, instead of projects that provide a status return.

    Yep. Ireland chose property, and the Scots chose income.

    Now there is a lesson and a half, for anybody that is grown up enough to throw aside the status obsession/property-head complex.

    • Deco

      Oh yes. I forgot to mention.

      A house that is empty 80% of the time is not a good investment. It might be an investment in social status. But it is not an investment in income. The Irish banking system suffers from a strange sort of intellectual disorder, that it never realised this for decades.

      In fact, given that it gives no financial return, it could hardly even be classed as an investment.

      Here we have income being converted into a capital investment that generates no income. In others, it is for losers. The only thing that can make it look good is price increases. Which probably explains the obsession with property prices in Ireland. It was a sure sign that a lot of people were predisposed towards investing in real estate, and they mystified by the concept of income. But when they experienced house price increases, suddenly they started to complement themselves on the genius they thought existed.

      Nothing worse than a gang of sophisticated sounding simpletons playing “how do you house”, and feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.

      Well there you go folks, I think I described Ireland’s inner idiot, in the years 1997-2007 for you all. To think that it only lasted a decade. But at the time, the confidence (arrogance) was so strong, they honestly thought it was permanent.

      Also this stands as a serious indictment to the prevailing Irish concepts about income and investment.

      Maybe instead of the Scots going for independence, they should take over the Business schools in Irish universities for a while. Apart from anything else it would lead to a dramatic drop in BS.

  6. pablos

    Deal or no deal, we would have been pillaged over the years by other EU nations, take the Spanish who brazenly exceeded their quotas with little or no trouble in our waters, but David is right to say that we have been blind when it came to fisheries, but if four fifths of our catch is exported, this must mean that others can do it better and cheaper than we can. Is it too late to make amends?

  7. CorkPlasticPaddy

    Really good article, David, in which you tell the truth of the situation of the Irish fishing industry on a whole.

    After reading the comments so far I have to say that I agree with everything that was said, but the only way that you are going to get any sort of a change for the better is to stop voting for the mainstream parties and that we vote for the people who will actually do the job of running this country of ours properly. We’re due to have a general election early next year and as it’s also the 100th anniversary of the Easter Rising of 1916 I believe that we should have a 2nd Easter Rising, not with rifles and cannon, but a political rising in which the citizens get up off their back sides and actually go out and vote for anyone but FG/FF/LP and once we do that we can declare a new Republic of the people and for the people.

  8. michaelcoughlan

    Hi,

    “What’s wrong with us?”

    Have you not figured it out by now?

    Ireland has indeed an unbelievable fishing resource. We also have some of the most productive farming land in the world. We produce the best beef in the world and the best racehorses. We also have many other resources literary cultural etc.

    Now David despite all of this the largest ever outflow of people from Ireland since the foundation of the state was 89400 in the 12 months to 2013. 80400 left in the 12 months to 2014. All of these outbound individuals despite the magnificent resources available to us.

    The answer to the question you ask has been given by Adelaide many times before and here it is again; We Irish are a race who despise each other and the very ground we walk on with pathological hatred and intensity. We are in fact so twisted a race we will destroy each other out of pure spite even if we ourselves are destroyed in the same process.

    What we are David is a peasant race. Only a race of unmitigated scum like us would see nothing wrong in shipping the best and brightest of our kids OUT OF the country decade after decade after decade whilst simultaneously bringing into the country through our open doors policy an endless supply of dirt cheap eastern Europeans labour to be fucked every which way in zero hour Min wage contract jobs thereby destroying the opportunity and capacity for our own to make good at home.

    You see David Michael O’Leary is one of the most honest Individuals of all. Because he is Irish he knows how we think and he knows because we really and truly are such scum we will sell our souls and sense of fair-play and decency for nothing more than cheap flights to Manorca. So will our politicians for whatever kick backs they got to give up our fishing and mineral rights off our coast.

    Michael.

    • Deco

      [
      We Irish are a race who despise each other and the very ground we walk on with pathological hatred and intensity. We are in fact so twisted a race we will destroy each other out of pure spite even if we ourselves are destroyed in the same process.
      ]

      We do have a problem with regard to selfishness, childish squabbling and pathological envy.

      Authority treats us like children, we accept it, and then we behave like children. And it is all psychological. The greatest lie of our era was that this condition was ideological. It is clearly not. But this lie is doing an important job – it is making sure that we do not lift up the carpet and see what is hidden beneath. And I am not talking about Westminster or Rome. I am talking about the Irish concept of authority.

      So, we need to figure this out, and get real with it.

      Paradoxically, we have been stuck in reverse in this area for at least two decades.

    • DB4545

      michaelcoughlan

      Why direct the anger at Michael O’Leary? Flights that cost £200.00 sterling return to the UK TWENTY years ago now cost 20-40 Euro TODAY thanks to Michael O’Leary. Even at those prices he’s delivered value to his shareholders with the share price almost doubling in the last year. He’s a self admitted obnoxious little boll** but he’s not pretending he’s Santa Claus. He runs a flying bus service and doesn’t pretend it’s some short of middle class flying restaurant service subsidised by taxpayers. He also pays his taxes and lives in this State unlike a billionaire and some pontificating rock stars I could name.I have no knowledge of him being involved in any corrupt practices and he’s had the balls to say what he thinks of the pompous little gobshites running this State. Meanwhile a billionaire who lives offshore to avoid paying his fair share of tax and whose fortune was established by engaging in corrupt practises with a former FG Minister at insane expense to Irish taxpayers appears to be able to buy every politician and Court in the land. That same former FG Minister continues to get re-elected.And people still refuse to boycott this billionaire’s petrol stations. As Deco said the problem is US.

      DB

      • Dead right, long live Ryanair.

        What the hell did Bono ever do for anyone except release irrelvant and crap songs?

        Music itself is irrelevant at the end of the day.

        And you are right about O’Brien usurping what little democracy that we have.

        • Deco

          Denis O’Brieb ?

          • DB4545

            Deco

            I don’t think it would be fair or prudent to name individuals and potentially expose the site to litigation. If you read the financial and other media it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out the parties involved. It’s becoming alarmingly clear that the political system is bought and paid for. We will have anarchy if people start to believe that the legal system has now been silenced and is in jeopardy.

            DB

        • Mike Lucey

          I also won’t hear a bad word said about Michael O’Leary! If Ireland had a couple of dozen businessmen of his calibre we would be a much more successful country.

          Imagine what could be done with Ireland’s Territorial Waters if Michael O’Leary was in charge. Ireland would have the largest, most efficient and well run fishing fleet in the EU, if not the World. Also the product would not be overpriced.

          • michaelcoughlan

            “Also the product would not be overpriced”

            When was the last time you bought a rubber chicken sandwich or a mars bar on a Ryanair flight?

            Michael.

          • DB4545

            michaelcoughlan

            Michael I don’t think you’re getting it. You have the CHOICE to buy a rubber sandwich/mars bar or not. We didn’t get that choice when we were locked into £200 sterling return flights to London. That bullshit was built into the price along with middle-class rottweilers with lipstick posing as stewardesses. We were paying through the nose for that lifestyle of the few.

            Michael O’Leary obnoxious little bast**d that he was saw through all that bullshit and saw the operation for what it is a flying bus service. Look at the tourist traffic that moves in Ireland because of the low fares model. Did you honestly think that Americans could be ripped off indefinitely by the gombeen merchants in the Shannon region?The same applied to the Shannon stopover nonsense. Flying people to the arsehole of nowhere long past the time when it was necessary for fuelling requirements. Do you have any idea how much potential business was lost because of the lunacy of serving the vested interests of the Country & Western gobshites?

            Shannon has a chance to be the Rotterdam of European Airfreight if it cops itself on. Part of that airfreight could be moving fresh fish from the Western seaboard to the Asian markets if the Michael O’Leary of airfreight or his Chinese equivalent isn’t doing this already. Michael O’Leary isn’t the problem he’s part of the solution. The problem is a certain type of non resident tax avoiding billionaire and smaller fish with his mentality who engage in regulatory capture. They capture a regulated market like telecoms or air travel and place a toll on it through crony deals with the government appointed regulator. This is what’s happening with our water supply at the moment. Irish people are wise to it and will not tolerate financial rapists just as they no longer tolerate church rapists.

            DB

          • michaelcoughlan

            Thank you Db4545.

            I have read your post and taken on board your pointed and accurate insights.

            Michael.

        • Grzegorz Kolodziej

          There is a joke about Bono but I bet you know it already. Bono is at the concert and he says ‘everytime I clasp my hands a child dies in Africa’. Someone shouts from the audience stop doing it then, you f..ing eejit’.

          What Bono did was for us was a bit of good music on their first 3 albums (including a song on martial law in Poland which was banned) and taxpayers money extortion.
          Sir Geldof is even better – virtually all his major transaction comes from tax evasion. I am not totally against the tax havens as the problem is in greedy states (Astrid Lindgren was once asked to pay more than 100% tax in Sweden!), but Geldof is a lefty and a hypocritical one too

      • michaelcoughlan

        Hi,

        I paid Michael O’Leary a compliment. The point you missed is that the reason we have record breaking numbers using his service after deciding to vote with their feet is because Michael and people like him run the place.

        Michael O’leary by the way served his time as a PA just like Denis O’Brien to the same individual Tony Ryan.

        Michael.

  9. Mike Lucey

    Thanks David for taking up this torch and starting the run with it.

    Before Ireland can sustainably benefit from our Territorial Waters it needs to bring them back under its stewardship in order to eliminate the rape than is happening currently.

    I imagine a very strong case could be made that EU’s Common Fisheries Policy has resulted in the abuse and decline of this resource over the past 40 years and that its high time Ireland took full control of her Territorial Waters in order to return them to a balanced eco system. Yes, its time to ‘go back to the negotiating table’.

    From what I can see there is currently only one Irish political party that has as it’s policy the ‘greater control over the Irish fishery’ and that’s Sinn Fein, like them or not.

    They would also appear to be doing something about it,

    It’s time for EU policy-makers to listen to Irish Fishermen – Ní Riada
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/33002

    Liadh Ní Riada MEP to meet Commissioner Vella to discuss Irish fisheries
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/34740

    The coalition would appear to be content to play within the current EU rules and regs and make do with the “Irish Box”, a good name for it as Ireland has definitely been boxed in when it comes to our fair share of this resource.

    Fisheries Reform Achieved: A Brighter Future for Fisheries Secured
    Simon Coveney TD Minister for Agriculture, Food, the Marine and Defence

    http://www.finegael.ie/our-people/ministers/simon-coveney/fisheries-reform-achieved/

    Mike

  10. Deco

    Question of importance (sic).

    Over the past few decades, what has been the social status/standing of a fisherman compared to the social status of
    I) solicitors
    II) bank mangers
    III) Journalists
    IV) people working in institutional state quangoes (thanks to being in a political party, or being with the “right” people).
    V) The men’s captain at the local golf club
    VI) the man who owns five plus residential properties and who is no longer doing any productive [ in some cases he never did].

    ?

    I think we think immaterial stuff far too seriously, and people of questionable ability far seriously.

    I think we can see where the money, the interest, the respect flows in Irish society.

    It results in the farcical situation, where the Irish have invested their capital in houses beside golf courses along the West coast, for status.

    And the Spaniards have invested their capital in fishing boats to take the fish from the sea ten miles away.

    We have found the problem. And the problem is us.

  11. DB4545

    Deco

    You’re points are well made. And these points have been made at length on this forum on many occasions. If you read the contributions above we attack all the usual suspects we see locally who have signs of visible if relatively minor wealth. Meanwhile the invisible wealth of the Marine, Agricultural and Oil & Gas and Mineral resources of this State is being hoovered up through the lobbyists in Brussels who have a single point of access and control to our political “elite”. We don’t need to re-invent the wheel on Marine resources just copy Norway and Iceland. The same applies to Oil & Gas the Norwegians set the standard with 500 billion Euro in a sovereign fund for the next generation. New Zealand had a radical shake up of its Agricultural sector and look where it is today.

    About ten years ago I was fishing with my son for mackerel from a quiet pier near Union Hall in West Cork. A guy in a landcruiser SWB commercial with KY plates pulled up. We got chatting for a couple of minutes and he suggested a better spot on the seaward side of the pier which turned out to be accurate. He was talking away on the mobile in his broad Kerry accent and then he switched to Spanish and to my ears talked away fluently. Within twenty minutes a fishing boat pulled in and a 40 foot refrigerated truck backed down the pier loaded up within 30 minutes and was gone as was the boat and the Landcruiser.

    Spanish fishing boats aren’t catching fish in Irish waters and making expensive journeys wasting labour and time and burning diesel to land a frozen and therefore devalued catch in Spain. It wouldn’t make commercial sense. They’re doing what I described above. They fish and unload at quiet piers all along the Southern and Western seaboard.The truck is heading for Dublin or Rosslare and that fresh catch ends up in London restaurants or Continental markets. Farmers wouldn’t allow a truck to pull up to their farm and load up their stock for free but that’s precisely what’s happening to our fishing stock. It happens because we’ve allowed lobbyists in Brussels to subvert our political system. What I’ve described may have been perfectly legal but given the quiet location I suspect something dodgy was afoot. I don’t know if the inspection system has been tightened up in the last ten years but I didn’t see any “officials” on the pier that day. The problem IS us.

    DB

  12. Good article David. People and communities who are part of Ireland’s sea-fishing industry and seafaring culture will recognise what you are saying.

    May we be so bold as to offer your readers a free copy of the book, A Woeful Tale by Derrick Cranpole? It is a collection of poetry and illustrations that charts the high and lows of Ireland’s sea-fishermen, their battles with the elements and bureaucracy, at sea and on land.

    Go to https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/247002 and claim your free copy on Smashwords when your enter the promo code RU42V at checkout.

    This is a free and genuine offer, exclusive to followers of this website. If you want to give something back, you could always honour us with a review; you are by no means obliged to however.

  13. Three years back I took a trip up the north west coast. Spending a few hours in and around Killybegs i was told the local boats fish only a few days ayear because of the quota system. Also that Spanish boats pulled in, loaded directly to Spanish trucks which immediately left for foreign parts.

    Fish pulled from Irish waters never even hit land in Ireland.

    Fresh negotiations will not work. A sovereign Ireland needs to take back that which was given away. The country does not have the balls of Iceland needed to do so.

    • DB4545

      Tony Brogan

      The Country has been subverted by our political elite and Brussels lobbyists. The economic terrorism conducted against Irish taxpayers should be treated with the same determination that was used against other subversive groups who threatened our vital interests. Tony you’ve mentioned in detail that you have more than a passing interest in Gold. Why didn’t you simply explain that people should click on to BitGold.com/r/CFtGze and look at their live gold/currency prices? These give a clear indication of the quantitative easing that is currently taking place with the Euro.

      DB

      • Gold and currency prices show little of the inflation induced as the gold/silver prices have been steadily manipulated lower by central banks covert activty that is now largely documented.

        The current price of gold shows little of the quantitive easing as the “prices” in currencies are far too low.

        The world spot price in any currency is readily available in any currency one wishes to choose and can be viewed 24/7.

        Try reading this for a primer

        http://www.gata.org/node/14839

        • From Chris Powell of GATA.org

          and the complete archive is here:

          http://www.gata.org/taxonomy/term/21

        • From lemetropole

          ECB:

          No more advances copies of speeches for journalists: The ECB released a statement in which it said that it will no longer release in advance the speeches of its executive board members to journalists under embargo. The decision takes effect immediately. StreetAccount notes the ECB’s statement has been released after earlier this week, a speech by executive board member Coeure caused a stir in the market after he said the central bank stepped up the pace of QE in May and June.

    • Mike Lucey

      Tony, ‘slowly, slowly catchy monkey’. It looks like some of our MEPs are on the job and getting places or at the very least ‘sowing the seeds of discontent’ which hopefully will grow into outrage and ultimately get back what is just as much part of the Ireland as its mountains.

  14. locoloco

    Fishing is hunting. Sustainable food comes from farming not hunting.

    Fishing represents very stupid hunting – all the discards die, while only the bureaucratically acceptable fish are landed.

    As fish become more scarce, we build bigger boats !!

    All about the money, money, money, eh !

    I agree with David’s points’ about doing the added-value work here, rather than exporting the raw material, but where does that fit in the “globalized” playbook.

    Fish are doomed. Enjoy them while you can.
    p.s. we are doomed too.

    • DB4545

      Locoloco
      Incorrect.if fishing was just hunting we’d still be able to catch 40lb cod on lines on a regular basis as in Iceland. That happens because they conserve and manage their stocks. That’s called farming.

      Db

  15. What is good for the chinese citizen should be good for you too.

    “”Economic person of the year 2011 in China, Sun Zhaoxue, who was also the President of the China Gold Association and General Manager of the China National Gold Group Corporation, wrote in August 2012:

    Individual investment demand is an important component of China’s gold reserve system, we should encourage individual investment demand for gold. Practice shows that gold possession by citizens is an effective supplement to national reserves and is very important to national financial security.

    Sun makes a clear distinction between consumer purchases (SGE flows) and “national reserves”.”"

    https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/koos-jansen/pboc-gold-purchases-separating-facts-from-speculation/

  16. “”Allowing these institutions to continue business as usual, after multiple and serious regulatory
    and criminal violations, poses risks to investors and the American public that are being
    ignored. It is not sufficient to look at each waiver request in a vacuum.”"
    Commissioner Kara M. Stein, US, SEC

    http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/img2015/Midas/0522/DissentingStatement.pdf

    Banks are criminal enterprises and are given a free pass by the regulators, until this dissenting opinion. Here they openly conspired to rig the currency and exchange markets and the libor overnight lending rates.

    The same with all markets where the banks act as surrogates for government. The manipulate the Currency and PM markets with the same impunity. Nice subject for David to explore.

  17. Lemetropolecafe

    ‘Titanic’ Global Economy May “Collapse” Warn HSBC
    - Gold Is Lifeboat

    “World economy is like an ocean liner without lifeboats” – HSBC
    - Four areas of high risk identified by HSBC
    - Risk of stock market crash
    - Pension funds and insurers may not meet obligations
    - Chinese recession may drag U.S. into recession or depression
    - Premature rate rise would expose very fragile global economy
    - “There aren’t enough lifeboats to go round”
    - HSBC positive on gold due to risks
    - Gold vital lifeboat when global ship strikes iceberg

    **

  18. It was a terrible article David, dreadful – bandwagonesque – as the Polish dude verson of Mr bonbon said – dreadful. 1st three albums of U2 was good up to 1985 – after that it went crap to supermarket music – eh hello that was 30 years ago when they stopped being good.

    I am your worst nightmare, it’s all going to fall apart so be prepared to take orders from me – you know it makes sense. I’m a good person but I’m a leader – not a follower, I know you will all be better following me – and you will.

  19. More government fraud in CPI reporting.

    http://investmentresearchdynamics.com/the-government-fraudulently-reported-april-inflation-numbers/

    “” But a further dissection of the numbers shows that the BLS has the price of gasoline falling 1.7% during April.

    This is either a politically motivated act of fraud or complete incompetence on the part of the Government statisticians and data gatherers (the Census Bureau).

    In fact, the price of gasoline rose over 12% during April – the fastest monthly rise in history:”"—-Dave Kransler

    • Dave–
      The entire Matrix is a fraud. Everyone is a paid lackey who follows
      their marching orders. The sick part of this entire Matrix is that the
      majority of the public is either totally apathetic of has been dumbed
      down thru television and GMO additives in the food. Critical thinking
      skills have been socially and geo engineered out of the majority of
      society.

    • Kevin May 22, 2015 at 8:33 pm
      The Chapwood inflation index tracks 500 commonly used items in 50 cities across the nation since 2011.

      The criminals at the central bank & in government claim the current inflation rate to be 0.8%.

      The Chapwood Index and the real world experience have determined inflation is running at approximately 11% nationally.

      Who do you believe to be accurate in their inflation calculation?

      Very bad economic times are in the near future.

      Suspending accounting requirements ( Dodd Frank) for criminals in the financial market, multi national corporations, corporations and government only postpones reality.

      In the words of Ayn Rand: You can ignore reality, but you can not ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

      Chapwood Index:

      http://www.chapwoodindex.com

  20. http://usawatchdog.com/author/greg-hunter/

    WNW 191-Criminal Financial System, Gold Fraud, Middle East on Fire, China Warns US Again

  21. DB4545

    Tony Brogan

    I’m just reading flash boys at the moment and these people need serious jail time not meaningless fines. What level of fines can possibly deter people who have no problem stealing billions more to pay the fines? How do you take them out of the system Tony or reboot the system without serious pain for a lot of people?

    DB

    • Politically they can be removed. Central banks are a creature of government.
      The problem being it must be a ground based movement from bottom to top. Not a leader proposing to the dense masses, the unilluminated.

      Everytime in the last 200 years a leader attempting to challenge the banking fraternity has been assassinated. From Lincoln to Gaddafi.
      Education of a sufficient mass of the people is needed to create the demand for change.

      AA political movement like Democracy ireland could effect change thru referenda. Even the current government could as we see in the marriage laws just voted.

      Then government must do the following
      Repeal the legal tender laws so that there must be agreement between the parties as to the currency of the medium of exchange and they are not forced to use a particular medium of exchange.
      This provides competition to the government sponsored currency. People can already do this but if there is a debt offered to be paid in the legal tender it cannot be refused in that currency and without the legal tender law it could.
      Provide the right to mint coin of the realm to any citizen and provide silver coin from the mint as legal tender but without a denominated value. Just the weight and purity of the coin. When this is done savers are not penalized by monetary inflation of the government printing more and more paper money. (See Hugo Salinas Price on monetizing silver coin)
      As the state would designate a monetary value to the coin from time to time to ensure the MV stays above the spot price of the melt value of the silver in the coin. This would be announced on a weekly basis but only changed if required. A feature of this is that the monetary value thus set would never ever decline.
      The state would make a small profit form the production of these coins, being able to buy silver at spot but issue the coins at a higher value. This profit would be used to acquire and retain a holding of silver that would continue to grow and thus be held as an asset backing the government currency.
      The government currency would now have competition and be partially backed by precious metals which would enhance its value by preventing extra production and largely eliminating the inflation that is the curse of the economy. Savers would be protected from inflation two ways. Firstly by holding precious metals and secondly by having a national currency that is issued at just enough to meet demand and no more. China is on the way to doing this as it encourages all citizens to own precious metals as savings. Hundreds if not thousands of tons of gold a year are being absorbed into china and India too. In fact the whole world except the west is at this game. We are the ones heading for the shock. Not them.

      If this is merged to the current system there is no major shock and it is accomplished within a generation. Other than that a general overnight reset will bankrupt the majority and we have chaos and strife before we settle down.

    • StephenKenny

      In short, you can’t. It might be theoretically possible if it could be ensured that a set of financial regulatory policies could be maintained for a generation, but that only happens after earth shaking wars, and the right kind.

      Unfortunately, with that regimented frame of mind, come other regiment frames of mind. We would be making a judgement on what sort of business of ‘good’ and what sort is ‘not good’, and to achieve this, this judgement has to get deep into the general psyche. I’m sure you can see where this goes – we’ve just spent 25 years dismantling the previous effort at this structure, because although it worked in some ways, it was not so good in others.

      So now we are left with a system, and a social system, that views successful financial speculators, estate agents, lawyers, and used car salesmen, as being at or near the pinnacle of our society, or at least being no further down than anyone else.

      If you want to see how completely hopeless the situation now is, consider the social, media, and political responses to two scenarios: Firstly, someone or other in the media criticises same sex marriage; secondly, the same someone or other, in the same media, criticises the CEO of a global bank that has admitted to being the biggest launderer of drug money in the history of drug money laundering.

      It’s over.

  22. DB4545

    Tony Brogan

    I think an orderly move in that direction has merit Tony. The Irish people just told the State and Church to go f**k themselves in relation to issues of personal morality. The State colluded with the church for almost a century pretending to have moral authority. It spent much of that century covering up the rape and murders of our most vulnerable Citizens. I hope our Citizens now educate themselves on the financial rape of the Citizens of this State by those who profess to hold financial authority. These people need to be
    removed from power from the ground up in just the same way.

    DB

    • coldblow

      I have five minutes to spare so I may as well rise to the bait.

      “The Irish people just told the State and Church to go f^^k themselves in relation to issues of personal morality.”

      There are a dozen things wrong with that sentence. Firstly, which way were the great and the good voting in the State? Secondly, where did the Irish people suddenly get the idea of demanding a referendum on this matter? (They did demand it didn’t they?) We are obviously world leaders in this particular field (not, as usual, following the herd.) Did an absolute majority of the Irish people vote yes? (You would think from today’s Sindo and form Marion on the radio that this was the case.) Those unfortunate barbarians who still don’t see the light and voted No apparently don’t figure in the simplistic narrative. We will need another referendum about some other meaningless progressive cause to have another round of lecturing and hectoring until they learn not only to shut up and do what they are told (by ‘the Irish people’ mar dhea) but to bloody well put an X in the right box and stop showing the country up abroad. Once we can get the rump of resistance down to say 5% these can then be handily scapegoated as the villains of any piece you want. The problem at the moment is that there are still too many of them: they are some poor mother’s son or whatever and these people could have damaging tearful testimony to bring!

      Next sentence: “The State colluded …” Another line straight out of the extrovert’s big bad book of cliché. The “Irish people” are of course to remain blameless victims in all this.

      Next sentence: “It spent much of that century covering up…” Does this include the notorious mass children’s grave in Galway? Have another look at Richard Webster’s site, this time at the scandal at that children’s home in Jersey. The senior policemen said that a fragment of a child’s skull had been found but this turned out later (though it made far less noise in the media)to be a piece of coconut shell or wood.

      I may as well go onto the next sentence: “I hope our Citizens now educate themselves on the financial rape of…” This is as meaningless as the “We need a proper debate about xyz” refrain which we keep on hearing.

      And let’s just take in the last sentence for good measure: “These people need to be removed from power from the ground up in just the same way.” Extravert rhetoric in full flow. Sounds good but what does it mean? Is this a paramilitary solution or will the teachers be asked to add it to the social studies courses at school (that’s already getting a bit crowded what with the obligatory personal sexual freedom ‘module’ which will surely; have to follow this bright day in Ireland’s march towards freedom and maturity). Have a heart for the poor children who will have to endure this. Some of them will get so bored and frustrated they will just have to take it out on some poor sap in a disadvantaged minority of their own devising after the bell. Our ‘Citizens’ will continue to do as they are told and the past few days proves it.

      Just having a laugh DB. I really did enjoy and appreciate your post.

      • DB4545

        Coldblow

        No problem Coldblow. That’s what open and honest debate is about. Give it to me with both barrels if you think I’m wrong. We are absolutely to blame for some of the barbarity that went on in this State. Have a read of today’s Sunday Times magazine section dealing with mother & baby home in Castlepollard. It’s beyond heartbreaking to read. I voted Yes & No on friday. I stuck by the old adage that the Irish farmer may believe in fairies but they deal in pigs. I voted for the fairies on friday and I voted against paying for any more pigs feeding at the taxpayer trough. I was concerned with the next generation having to pay the 140,000 Euro pensions for half a dozen well connected youthful ex-presidents feeding from the trough. I hope I’ve done my civic duty on both counts!

        DB

    • http://awaken-longford.com/2015/05/24/ireland-once-again-shows-the-way-are-we-capable-of-obliterating-another-ingrained-fallacy/

      Awaken Longford asks the question. Is the country ready to replace the amoral criminal money system.

      “”It is particularly necessary to realize this, because we have so long been the victims of vagaries, stupidities and the monstrous injustices of the monetary system, that large sections of the population in every country we have come to regard even the acutest forms of material and psychological misery as part of the natural order of things.”"

      I’m with them on this. How about you, David? Is it not time to concentrate on the abiding issue of our times. Only a sovereign country can do this through referendum.

  23. coldblow

    A Uasail DB4545 a chara

    I note your concerns in relation to the institution in Castlepollard.

    I will endeavour to look into the situation and revert to you in due course.

    Is mise le meas

    Coldblow Ó Coldblow
    Rúnaí Príobháideach

  24. DB4545

    Coldblow

    Official Ireland will never be dead as long as they keep sending those letters.Jesus H.Christ Coldblow it’s striking how similar they sound to something from Pravda and for good reason. One of my concerns is that the little sisters of perpeptual indulgence apparently hired a very prominent blonde PR consultant to deal with press enquiries. GUBU. Perhaps not unprecedented. I wonder if the Nazis had hired PR people would the Nurenburg trials have faded into obscurity?

    DB

    • coldblow

      I read a bit about it but the story seems unexceptional given the times. The Sunday Times story is behind a paywall. I’d be interested in finding out who the journalist is who wrote it. The accounts I read all seem to be making more of what was involved and fail to explain that this was all done in accordance with the wishes of the Irish people. That’s not to say that this society was ever just – in short, the landholders and the professional classes had it all their own way.

      I know you looked at Richard Webster’s site. Did you see this article? -

      http://www.richardwebster.net/brynestynireland.html

      This mentions Rabbitte’s statement in the Dáil that there was a secret letter written the contents of which would rock the very foundations of the state. Of course, as in all of these things, there was no such letter. Nevertheless it actually brought down Reynolds’s government. Not bad going, possibly an Irish first? It shows the power of the Irish *imagination*.

    • coldblow

      About my letter, when I first started in the Civil Service in my late 30s, my Principal Officer asked me one day, about a ‘rep’ from a member of the public which I was dealing with, if he thought I, as a person of more mature years, thought that we were giving a fair crack of the whip to members of the public who were writing in. I said that I was shocked that so much time and resources were given over to encouraging them and that these could be better spent in other ways.

      • DB4545

        Coldblow

        I read the link but possibly like a lot of Citizens I have zero faith or trust in Government or politicians and most news sources unless they’ve been scrutinised at length. As you know 90% of news is usually PR. I’m sure most public servants try to do their jobs given the constraints of that environment.There’s an easy and very Scandinavian solution to the issue of effective use of resources. It would allow Citizens to remove gobshite “rep” middleman and view the information themselves. Make the archives and records freely accessible to all Citizens. The Official Secrets Acts and related legislation rarely “protect” Citizens from some perceived enemy. With very limited exceptions most of it should be accessible. It’s real achievement is to prevent Citizens from probing the reckless incompetence of “managers” and their political masters.

        DB

        • coldblow

          Just a brief response. Firstly, I wouldn’t be too keen to follow Scandinavian models – parhaps in a few things but not in many others.

          Of course there is much to be said about holding the state to account. My basic line is that the state should not be allowed to approriate power to itself except where strictly necessary.

          The problem with FOI is that it is a cranks’ charter and allows unelected busibodies or unscrupulous business people (or both) a handy too to prioritize their own interests, necessarily at the expense of the silent majority. I have dealt with too many of them by now. Some requests are ridiculous or plain stupid.

        • coldblow

          I meant to add about Webster that he is a reliable independent source and that, while I don’t share his world view, he shows good judgement, certainly in matters of fact. I sometimes find myself now wondering how I could have accepted what some other writers had to say when I would have been influenced by them even a few short years ago.

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