December 16, 2013

Bureaucratic Ireland versus Business Ireland - two very different stories

Posted in Euro · 202 comments ·

This week we are going to talk about two Irelands, business Ireland and bureaucratic Ireland. They were both evident this week and both view the world from very different angles.

I’m sitting in the wonderful Urban Picnic cafe in Georges Street Arcade in central Dublin, listening to the government’s press conference about Ireland leaving the bailout. It is quite a surreal experience. The language of the press conference is pure bureaucratic Ireland, while the reality of the cafe is classic business Ireland.

In bureaucratic Ireland, the tone of the conversation this week has been almost entirely informed by a ”what will the neighbours think” bias. The high priest of the bureaucracy, the Minister for Finance, even referred to Jean-Claude Trichet as being a ”highly sophisticated Frenchman”, as if our neighbour the Frenchman, is on a higher cultural and intellectual planet to us Paddies.

In fact, Trichet has displayed neither sophistication nor particular ability in his two senior public roles. As governor of the Banque de France he presided over a calamitous run on the French currency in 1992 and as the boss of the ECB, European banks imploded on his watch nearly taking the euro with them.

I can’t count the number of times I have heard bureaucratic Ireland talking about the economy this week using terms like reputation, humiliation, shame and embarrassment as if we are talking about an unwanted teenage pregnancy in the 1960s rather than using 21st century economic terms like hard work, customers, balance sheets, productivity and profits.

In business Ireland, people know that economics and economic recovery is not some sort of Victorian morality costume drama: we are talking about buying and selling things for a profit – that’s what a recovery is. It is not about being respectable. It is about getting up every day, going out and selling stuff to other people in such a way that they are happy to buy and you are content to get paid at the price.

The contrast between bureaucratic Ireland and business Ireland isn’t just one of language, it is about identifying what is important and what is not.

Economic recovery is not about getting backslapped by European politicians, American multinationals or photo opportunities with spokespeople for investment funds that have no real fixed abode.

The recovery is about small businesses having a chance and it is about people deploying their talents and energies to make it happen. To make things happen we need to have enough credit to grease the wheels, enough customers to buy the product and enough energy to get there.


Banking dilemma

Assuming we have the energy to rebuild, business Ireland needs credit, customers, domestic demand and properly functioning banks. In Ireland we don’t have these, yet. In fact, the absence of a properly functioning banking system is still one of the biggest holes in the recovery narrative and it is one of the major unexploded landmines that could go off in 2014.

Indeed the banks are one of the places where bureaucratic Ireland and business Ireland meet because the banks are now agencies of the state and businesses need to deal with them every day. The banks are the link between press conference Ireland and hard-pressed Ireland.

You are probably familiar with the official story from bureaucratic Ireland. The account that has been spun all over the world is that Bank of Ireland is fine. Last week there was much made of the fact that foreign investors had made a few quid on its share price since 2011 and that it paid money back to the state at a profit to the country.

But a closer look at Bank of Ireland reveals the sharp distinction between the cheerleading of bureaucratic Ireland and reality of business Ireland.

According to its own figures, 10 per cent of the bank’s owner-occupied residential mortgages are in arrears and 16 per cent of its buy to let mortgages are too. This makes it about 6 per cent better than the rest of the banks. So far so okay.

But let’s look at how much it has provided against losses on these loans. The bank has set aside €824 million on a €20 billion loan book. This is about 4 per cent.

Now let’s consider when all these mortgages were taken out to see how bad these loans are likely to be. Over half were in the 2005-2008 period, ie at the height of the boom. Indeed, by way of comparison, the complexion of Bank of Ireland’s loan book is almost identical to that of KBC, the Belgian-owned bank.

Three weeks ago KBC announced that it was increasing its provision to Euro 1 billion for bad loans on a total loan book that is smaller than half of Bank of Ireland’s Euro 20 billion book. This move was driven by the ECB announcing stress tests for all eurozone banks in 2014. Clearly the Belgians decided to sort out the Irish problem by providing lots of capital.

Assuming that KBC and Bank of Ireland have the same problems in their loan books, this implies that Bank of Ireland might need to double or even triple the amount of money it sets aside next year to cover losses when the ECB looks at it with its new more strict stress tests.

This banking dilemma plays out in small business Ireland in two ways.

First, if Bank of Ireland, and the other banks, need cash, where will they get it?



This is where the new notion of bail ins’ comes into play. If the banks can’t raise money on the markets, deposits are likely to be raided – as happened in Cyprus. Given that most European banks will need capital at the same time, why would you think Irish banks would be at the top of the capital-raising queue?

Quite apart from the deposits side, the lack of adequate capital in the banks is strangling credit in business Ireland. It means that even when interest rates in Europe are at 1 per cent and moving towards zero, Irish business (or young Irish couples aiming to buy houses and profit from the fall in property values in the last five years) have to pay 5 per cent interest for the pleasure of a loan.

Contrast this with the foreign player in the market who can buy distressed assets at close to zero per cent financing and will therefore always outbid the Irish player. And so too will the cash buyer in Ireland always be able to outbid the young couple trying to get a house because the young couple don’t have the cash and have to borrow at 5 per cent.

Foreigners are being gifted the Irish recovery over the locals and, among the locals, the middle-aged cash investor is in a much stronger position over the young owner-occupier couple.

When you compare the rhetoric of bureaucratic Ireland with the realities of business Ireland, the disparities, as we exit the bailout, are as great as ever.

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  1. Anyone leaving money or assets in any part of the banking system is looking for trouble. Everyone looking after their own best interest will paralyze what is left of the banking system.

    Best to leave the Euro.
    Issue treasury money at no cost or interest replacing all the euros. revoke the odious debts. Pay off the balance of the national debt with treasury money.
    Sell the assets of the busted banks.
    Let people/businesses buy back their existing debt if they can at market value as the loan portfolios will be sold to investors. (60 day right of first refusal).
    Fix the money supply to avoid further inflation
    Repeal legal tender laws so people can choose whatever money they wish to use.
    Monetize silver and gold coins as an alternative money.
    Repeal the income tax (act) and rely on consumption taxes and dues and tariffs for government income.
    Use the Post Office as a national bank. Infrastructure is already in place. There are little capital expenses required to do this.

    • Good suggestions Tony but:

      Pigs Might Fly First.

      • Pigs might fly put into the proper ‘plane so anything is possible.
        David may even endorse some suggestions and then we have traction.
        It is the only suggestion I can come up with that avoids to the larger degree an out and out depression. In fact I think it would lead to a speedy recovery and implementation would get Enda Kenny re-elected….
        Continuing to use the current debt based Ponzi scheme of the central bank money system will end in a bust.

        • whatamess

          -1 Tony

          “It is the only suggestion I can come up with that avoids to the larger degree an out and out depression”

          That’s because of your Tiger conditioning Antoin. Unless you step out of that mental bubble, which means being truthful and real with yourself and confronting your blind spot! With money as your axiom, all you’re everrr gonna be ,is getting busy SUBTRACTING, not adding!! Just more “lively fancy”.

          Neo in the Matrix, gains the enlightenment ,that his only CHOICE for a free future is that he gets his ass to the mainframe, as foretold by the Oracle, – The top-down approach! The ONLY approach that will affect REAL CHANGE.

          Resistance to this approach makes you part of the problem and precludes you from being part of a REAL planned wilful creative solution, which is exactly what’s needed ,”at the edifice of this crumbling system”

          • I have no blind spot. As I previously said, most have yet to see through the mist at what is beyond.

            You have yet to study what I have suggested and prejudge from limited knowledge.

            Your plans will come to naught as you try to rebuild a crumbling edifice. The putrefaction must be removed and then a new structure built. All else is in vain

            I have to laugh at your suggestion I am a part of the problem. Do I advocate a debt based monetary system. Do you know what that is. Do you think I encourage that all economic activity be stifled by debt and the accompanying interest.

            You insult me. Go and do your homework and study the current money system and then discuss it.

            I find your comments ludicrous. Is that my blind spot?
            Take each point I made in the opening post and debate it and I will respond.
            Blanket condemnation is the result of emotion not reason.
            Oh by the way, I had no tiger conditioning as I took no part in the lemming like herd activities.

            I do not follow the crowd. One minute they are slapping your back and next minute they lynch you. Stay clear of the crowd, tread your own path.

          • bonbon

            You do have a dangerous blindspot, obsessed with Hayek’s Scylla, and not looking over the prow at Charybdis about to devour entire culture.

            Funny thing is Hayek, wink-wink, siren sang to follow right into that maw. It’s a bit daft to trot along after?

          • michaelcoughlan


            Me again.

            Neo was confronted with making a choice which was either logical (sacrifice trinity to save Zion) or emotional (save trinity because he loves her and sacrifice Zion). Because he chose

          • michaelcoughlan

            ……. to save trinity because of love the creators of the matrix deemed the matrix to be flawed because it wasn’t logical.

            This concept was revisited in the third part when neo decided to sacrifice himself because he loved everyone else same as Jesus by the way.

            Love is waaaaaaay more powerful than even thorium. Top down approaches work (sort of) in totalitarian dictatorships or brainwashed cults.

            Church and not the cinema is where truth is found.

          • whatamess

            Michael ,

            “Know Thyself”, escape “Plato’s Cave” and only together, sans the ruling strata, we can create a future for generations to come !

            step 1 Glass Steagall

            You need to go beyond the fraud of sense perception ,challenge it, to avoid the paradoxes between man and his own sense perception – that’s creativity Michael

            are you up for it?

          • And we spend money on education of people in all this psycho babble.

            No wonder we are in trouble. Everyones’ mind is distorted by weird opinions advertised as truths.

    • dwalsh

      Some good suggestions; and some not.

      Of course if Ireland took such a radical turn we would have a ‘green’ revolution in no time led by foundation funded neoliberal fascists and sports celebrities and the like.
      We might even run the risk of being bombed back into freedom & democracy by NATO.

      • All f the above are possible, Dwalsh. That is the cost of freedom. Truth is that when the bully is faced they mostly back down.
        Choices are simple and perhaps harsh. It is freedom or economic debt based servitude. Permanent indentureship with no end in sight.

    • paddythepig

      Someone is going to lose out here. Care to mention who?

  2. redriversix

    Is this post going to show up or will my laptop freeze or throw another woobly.?

    Sick of spin..tired of lies…fed up with economists. ..tired of being a statistic. ..hate been spoken down to by F.A.S.

    Hate what this financial War is turning me into..although I day at a I need heavy artillery.

    loath our legal system..loath our Banks..this much hate today cannot be good for me..?

    Tired of hearing about Death…

    I neef to be grateful..I need to be grateful. …I need to be grateful…..I am a armour plated motherfucker..I am a armour plated motherfucker. …I am a armour plated motherfucker………….

    • Grey Fox

      Yes you are an armour plated motherfucker, heed your own advice and stick with the winners!
      Do what you can and park the rest!
      Gonna be a hard day today, burying another victim of the Banks.
      Don’t waste time feeling sorry for yourself.
      Don’t give away any of your power.
      Don’t shy away from change
      Don’t waste energy on things you can’t control
      Don’t worry about pleasing others.
      Don’t fear taking calculated risks.
      Don’t dwell on the past.
      Don’t make the same mistakes over and over.
      Don’t resent other people’s success
      Don’t give up after failure
      Don’t fear time alone.
      Don’t feel the world owe’s you anything
      Don’t expect immediate results.
      RR6 you are one of the strongest people I know and your input is invaluable.
      Keep the faith.

    • dwalsh

      Hi RR6.
      Hate is not good for us; but I feel sure you of all people would never succumb to it. I share your struggle.

      • redriversix

        Thank you dwalsh

        gotta keep remembering “every day is a good day. ..jyst some days better than others”

        Sempri fi

        • EMMETTOR

          What we sometimes characterise as hate is actually anger and Anger Is An Energy. Just because a bureaucracy delivers it’s damage in an anodyne form does not lessen it’s impact, does not make the violence it inflicts any less painful to endure. All taxes are taxes on production, what else is there to tax? All taxes are income taxes. A tax on your home, a tax on your food, all paid from your income. In this regard, income tax is one of the most equitable, almost all others tend towards regressiveness and therefore, inequality.

    • Ryu Hayabusa


      Hang in there. You have a steely resolve and they shall not beat you.

      If Kenny & Gilmore& their viper’s pit of toadies had 1% of your humanity but it’s a foolish hope in vain to even utter. They are just programmed, witless time servers who are oblivious to the bigger picture.

      You are helping many more people than they feebly claim to!

  3. Reality Check

    Dear Santa I’d like one these for Christmas.
    I think the ideal set up would be either Leeson st or Baggot st – The Dail should be in perfect range from those locations.

  4. Intersectionality is the key. An intersectional analysis of Ireland using radical feminist/queer theory tools applied to Economics shows there are more than just Insider/Outsider, Business and Bureaucratic layers of the onion that is ‘real Ireland’. There’s the culchies who are either unable to cross the moat of Dublin house prices in occupied enclaves or are being shepherded to the night boat or to drive a bus in Malta, sure isn’t der wedder der grand! There’s insured and uninsured health care Ireland whereby the access to the Doctor via ‘lavish’ dole is now under threat to satisfy the austerity junkies, not to mention the abortion stuff. Enda’s conceded on the gay marriage thing becuz he knew what would happen if he bent and spread to Rome again like all the other FF/FG Taoiseachs before him in the First Roman Irish Republic, once the annoying idealists like Collins and Cosgrave were got rid of. Now, we also have to separate ‘business’ intersectionally, put it under the microscope and observe the petri-dish to see legitimate life forms of FDI and SME and the mutant parasitic life-forms that caused the crises and are incubating the Celtic Corralito bail-in virus.

    You can be as entrepreneurial as you want but in a banjaxed economy there are no customers. On Sat night before the strip club, I walked past an abandoned art-project that was meant to reinvigorate West Brom. The local dangerzone Irish pub ‘Craic Crackhouse’ or whatever it’s called was rammed because, some of the entrepreneurs there sell stuff off-premises down back alleys, stuff that is recession-proof, oldest industry fuelled by drugs, etc

    “The Public is now closed, Sandwell Arts Trust, a registered charity, managed The Public – a creative place, inspiring art and changing lives – on behalf of Sandwell MBC from April 2009 to November 2013.” Urban Picnic vs The Public, case studies in how not to/how to do it:

    Now, anyone with a brain, like me, saw that no amount of ‘pubicly funded art’ is going to kickstart a local economy without there being a fundamental industrial/service sector boom as well. Art can indeed help as a focus for optimism and inspiration but if this stuff isn’t reigned in, then you end up with the Irish Mind malarkey on your island and the endless opera subsidies for toffs here. So, where is this new Irish dawn coming from? From the credit/debt taps being turned on again to fuel a housing/consumption mania like here on this island? Or any fundamental re-write of the Irish economic business story ‘going forward’ [sic]? Show me the Nokia/Samsung/Lenovo etc. I guess it’s 40K pig farms and windmills every half-mile in the Midlands as the last flickering embers of Osraige’s beauty is trashed.

    Everything about Official Ireland Incs apologia for it’s meltdown is crouched in craven arse-kiss language, fellating the French and anyone else who’ll take over and run the country instead of the bother of FF/FG manning up, growing a pair and doing the right thing. The real plastic paddies are in the Dail and the Sinead and they are Shameless about Selling Ireland By The Euro, just as the City was about Selling England by The Pound. Same bunch of crooks and shysters:

    “Follow on! Till the gold is cold. Dancing out with the moonlit knight, Knights of the Green Shield stamp and shout. There’s a fat old lady outside the saloon; laying out the credit she plays Fortune. The deck is uneven right from the start; all of their hands are playing apart.”

    Knights of the Green Shield pulling on the Green Jersey to hide their traitor plans. Rise up! Get up stand up! Look, I can say this becuz I don’t live on the island of Ireland and don’t give a fcuk, though would say it from a Corporation house in Ballyfermot in Santa onesie smoking a spliff, etc. The real story of the serial betrayals of Irish people through collaboration with foreign oppressors and by emigration played out before my eyes as a child and teenager in the dark streets of Peaky Blinder Small Heath, to a soundtrack of Genesis, Horslips, and all the rest of the mad stuff that made the Fifth Province Diasporan upbringing the ultimate tale of the ‘Forgotten Irish’. The Diaspora is NOT just those clueless Americans in Hummers getting stuck parking near the Famine Memorial in Durrow.

    Forgotten? Not by us, their sons and daugters, as they pass on from this planet, the churches now emptying as once they were overfilled. Not by us. It’s time the tale were told and the truth about who’s trashed Ireland since independence has always been hidden in plain sight, and is found amongst the survivor stories of those who fled Industrial Schools and the Irish Gulag to party till 1999 as mad paddy the navvy and atheist priests Shagged4Jayzus whilst giving 2 fingers to Papist Devil Eire. I, of course, was just an interested observer of the bachannals, being a good Catholic boy. ahem!

    “i’ve been dreaming of a time when, the Irish are sick to death of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, and spit upon their names alongside Cromwells, and denounce the tribal mind that still deceives them: will they decieve them for ever?”

    “Part 2 – TV3 – 2009. The Forgotten Irish is a two part 2009 TV3 documentary series telling the stories of the Irish men and woman who took the boat to England, in search of work in the forties and fifties. In the decade following World War II, hundreds of thousands of Irish men and women migrated to Britain, as economic circumstances forced them to leave their families and communities. Taking the boat to England in search of work, most of them worked as casual labour on building sites. They built the motorways and the London Underground and cleared and rebuilt bomb-damaged towns. Many others worked on the land, in domestic service and in healthcare. In spite of the enormous contribution they made to Ireland in her darkest days, many of these elderly & vulnerable Irish people are now living in poverty, and are truly The Forgotten Irish. This series will tell their story. It is an intimate and simple series that will document the lives and loneliness of some of these people”

  5. Politics -v- Markets

    Napoleons army never came to Ireland until our governments invited them after The Crash .Since then we have been indoctrinated by Code Napoleon and his officers are many including Trichet and others we read in the newspapers .All of these are from the same elite French schools that have now a new alumnae in Ireland displacing the Blackrock et al in that process .Our new regulator in the Central Bank is Cyril Roux from that same stock .

    The Markets that we lament in this article is what we know to be Mid Atlantic Speed with little regulation .

    Both the above are incompatible and this disjoint is what is causing the pain we feel around us .

    • bonbon

      There is a bit of truth in that – witness the Grande Armee raggle-taggle bunch of sans-coulottes at the new Eastern Front – Kiev. Will it be Borodino or Waterloo is the only question. Or will Cameron play Duke of Wellington or Lord Nelson, leaving the EU to save the day? (I seem to remember a column in Dublin…). That Grande Armee was truly EU-ropean, most spoke no French at all when they crossed the Elbe.

  6. Adelaide

    Memorable excerpt from yesterdays’ Sunday Times Business Commentary.

    “Ireland exits the bailout on a number of highs: high unemployment, high emigration, high debt, high mortgage arrears…

    You gotta laugh.

  7. dwalsh

    Undoubtedly all this cant about recovery is nonsense. I agree with that aspect of David’s article. And also that there are fully predictable landmines ahead which we will most likely tread on; as well as a few depth charges waiting to go off in the banks and stock markets etc.

    This is not over; not even nearly.

    My one criticism relates to what is lacking in David’s analysis and vision….the public sector.

    I would argue that real recovery will require both a thriving private sector AND a thriving public sector. To see the economy as being exclusively the private sector, and the public sector as merely a liability, is the dystopian neoliberal analysis and vision, which is at the root of this crisis; and is neither a viable nor a humane way forward.

    One of the crucial aspects of this dreadful crisis very little mentioned is the assault on the public commons. This is nothing less than an assault on society and human civilisation.

    Transnational neoliberal globalism is sociopathic and ecocidal and represents a mortal threat to our civilisation and our world.

    • bonbon

      Correct – it IS an assault on civilization itself, not just economics or politics.

    • Conducted by the shadowy clan in the BIS and beyond.
      We are shackled to servitude by the current monetary system. Those chains must be released and cast off. A free people can accomplish anything; Enslaved people nothing but lay and rot.

      • bonbon

        Conducted by those who say openly and often that 1 billion could, maybe, survive their onslaught. No shadows there – it is all out in the open – gives the Obama’s and Enda’s wind in the sail.

        Now it get’s, well, Brutish.

        • whatamess

          Zeus vs Prometheus

        • Most have yet to penetrate the mist to see beyond. Harping on the Anglo, British, brutish theme is misleading many away from the wizard behind the curtain.
          Why not go directly to the heart and call it like it is.
          It is the collection of banksters controlled by the Rothschild, Warburg, Rockefeller cartel.
          Those who control our money system and thus the whole of society.

          “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

          Reading the link above will be illuminating one may say.

          • bonbon

            That is well known, but now half true, or rather truthy, as GW would say. Squeeze credit to depopulate is the other side of that coin, and the only real purpose in monetarism, an ancient attack on civilization.

          • What is well known is the boom bust cycle controlled by the cartel of bankers. They are the ones you are after bonbon.

            So fire them into the night, stop using their fake Ponzi debt based excuse for money and get real, bonbon.

            Return to my first posting.

        • bonbon

          When much adored public figures say right out that 1 billion is optimal, must refuse to hear what rang in their ears. No mist. A tame version was the Tiger bull-headedness when told they lived in a bubble.

          I think you even flinched there, or was I misled?

          • And the way to defeat that population proposal is to ban the money lenders yet again and use a system out of their control.
            Working at anything without settling this problem is futile.

            A return to a free man’s money will result in freed people.

          • bonbon

            The best way to halt this is to say openly what it is. We have had this for millennia. Thermonuclear weapons tend to scupper that game. Fire that no-one could survive. The oligarchical game is over.

            No flinching, say it. The tiny oligarchy I am sure look at our numbers, 7 billion. We refuse! J’accuse!

    • paddythepig

      Rubbish. Could the public sector thrive any more than it already is?

      • Colin

        They are really excellent at collecting taxes from the people, you have to hand it to them. World leaders at collecting tax in fact, but soft on collecting tax from the corporates!


      The Public Sector, like all aspects of The State, must been seen as a necessary evil. They become, immediately on establishment, bureaucratic, self-serving and of increasingly less utility to The People. It is not neo-liberal to despise waste, indolence and indifference, all of these attitudes are there in abundance in our own Public Service and the EU super-bureacracy. The Public Sector’s main use, in our current situation is to keep thousands employed, shuffling papers around, because there are no jobs for these paper-shufflers in the real economy. A senior Civil Servant I am acquainted with praised the efficiency of the Revenue Commissioners and attributed this to the fact that it not headed by a Minister. Irony piles upon irony.

  8. Pat Flannery

    As I read your piece from Georges Street Arcade in central Dublin this morning I was sitting in sunny La Jolla, California enjoying 25 degree air temperatures and gentle ocean breezes. I had just watched one of our San Diego County Supervisors (we call county councilors “supervisors” in America) on a local morning TV talk show. She addressed the very same subject: the contest between bureaucracy and business (from her Republican pro-business political perspective of course).

    San Diego County has roughly the same population as the Republic of Ireland. We relate to the far-away Washington bureaucracy as Ireland relates to the mysterious workings of Brussels. Like you, we feel helpless and used. More and more we strive at city and county level to identify those parts of our local economy over which we have some degree of control.

    As I listened to our local supervisor this morning outlining her policy proposals to ease regulation on local micro brewers, cheese makers and all kinds of organic farming to serve the burgeoning San Diego metropolitan population with locally-grown food and beverages, I reflected on how well that might work in the ring of rich agricultural land surrounding metropolitan Dublin.

    Despite being essentially desert San Diego County’s hidden valleys and mesas produce enormous quantities of specialty foods for the local market and is becoming a leading center for “designer beer” in particular. Why not Meath and Kildare?

    I watched you on “Prime Time” last week make the same point you make here, that foreigners are “being gifted” distressed Irish assets because unlike Irish buyers they have access to close-to-zero-per-cent financing. You are right, despite the fact that many of these “foreign” buyers may in fact be Irish, laundering their Caribbean tax haven deposits through New York banks.

    But your point remains valid: we have to fight the unfair advantages being given to large corporations, foreign or domestic, by our very own bureaucracies. One way of doing this would be to reclaim as much of our economy for local players as possible. What we eat and drink might be a good place to start. Are giant corporate retailers not being gifted Irish food purchasing power?

    For our part here in San Diego (we like to call it the biggest small town in America) many of us are more and more turning to local Farmers’ Markets rather than dutifully filling our shopping carts with TV-advertised packaged food off giant trucks that nightly roll down the Freeway from that giant neighbor just 120 miles up the road, Los Angeles, with its giant national food distribution warehouses.

    Just a thought to help your economic musings while contemplating the Dublin rain through that Urban Picnic Café window in Georges Street. Merry Christmas to all your readers from a gorgeously sunny beach Christmas in Southern California.

    • bonbon

      Where does the water for agriculture around San Diego come from, it being mostly desert and all?

      • Good thought. Ireland does not have that problem in general.

        • bonbon

          Drinkable water is another thing entirely – remember the greenie induced water disaster only a couple of years ago. When I see Tokyo with ~30 million and passable water you have to see the damage the environmentalists have done.

      • Pat Flannery

        Practically all of Southern California’s water, including that of San Diego County, comes from the Rocky Mountain snow cover via the Colorado River and from the Sierra Nevada mountain range watershed into smaller California rivers and lakes such as the Sacramento River. It is distributed throughout the state by a vast system of aqueducts.

        We watch the snow cover of both mountain ranges very carefully during each winter as that will be our water supply for the following year. Naturally water management and conservation has always been one of California’s hottest political issues and getting hotter. There is fierce competition between state regions and between agriculture and cities.

        • bonbon

          The Great American Desert will be greened. But not by praying for snowfall and fighting over drops.

          A video you will never forget, the executive in-depth 30 minute tour of NAWAPA XXI, produced for water specialists, farmers, policy makers, and others who will be able to put their weight behind this life-like vision of the future.

          • There you go bonbon. Stealing the Canadian water and flooding the territory of Canada to settle your fantasy. Imperialism at its worse. Supporting empire?

          • bonbon

            There you go hoarding water and gold. I suppose it is an “instinct”.

            Don’t be daft. Canada has the Arctic, and the power generation NAWAPA brings will open it up – it is a huge frontier. What are ye waiting for?

        • Silly statement bonbon. Looks as if you will steal from anyone for your own ends.

          Why not suggest something really grand like empting the great lakes , well at least one of them like Lake Michigan. After it is emptied to water the desert then the land exposed could be used for agriculture. Now that is a real project using horded water.
          Is there not a treaty preventing this use bonbon. No problem, every treaty is made to be broken.
          Right up your waterway. a royal flush no less.
          Canada will look after its own arctic. Unless it freezes up again of course. It may do just that.

          • bonbon

            As usual a litany of destruction, from the metal corner. To look after the Arctic needs energy, as Russia well knows. Dump the Royal Decree banning Arctic development and taste a bit of liberty. How can Mrs. Windsor decide what to do with such a resource, Squire?

          • Because you insist on leaving the bankers in control of the worlds money instead of opting to be free.

            It is somewhat explicable as I note your continuing enthrallment with being bound to LaRouche. Must be comfortable for you to continue to suck your thumb while being succored by LaRouche PAC

          • Not as destructive as flooding 1000′s of square miles of pristine territory and diverting whole river systems thousands of miles. Of course that litany is from the mental corner.

    • dwalsh

      If Obama succeeds in pushing through the Trans Pacific Partnership it will probably be illegal to protect or in any way promote local businesses such as micro brewers, cheese makers and all kinds of organic farming.

      If you dont know what I referring to then I urge you to google the TPP and read for yourself about a trade agreement (sic) being negotiated in secret (not even Congress is permitted to see the text) and which Obama wants to fast-track through the Congress; ie no Congressional oversight whatsoever.

    • What day was the Prime Time show on Pat please?

      Want to watch it on RTE Player.

  9. bonbon

    Enda defeated Scylla and now sails the ship of state right into the maw of Charybdis. He probably thinks he will survive alone, an Odysseus on his way to Calypso’s island. The muinteoir never read Homer!

    • whatamess

      but he ought to have!!!

      • bonbon

        Well, we can and learn. That siege of troy depopulated the Aegean, Greece lost writing for 800 years, towns were abandoned, even today not on the map. This is starting again – the TPP and the Eastern Front are on.

        We know Charybdis’ maw lurks behind Scylla.

        • whatamess

          learning requires stepping outside of sense perception

          And with all the indoctrinated conditioning ,that takes courage to face what is REAL

          I’m quite sure that Friedrich S would think i too have been “thoroughly unpoetical” in the past

          • bonbon

            Enda has done severe damage to Gaeilge, heading right towards that dark age where entire cultures would disappear.
            “This is the worst Government towards promotion of the Irish language since the beginning of the State”, (USI) VP for the language Feidhlim Seoige said.

          • Who cares, waste of time and money.

          • bonbon

            Surely you mean Bicoin? Can Bitcoin buy a Shakespearean Sonnet, a Keats poem, or The Foggy Dew? As Shelley wrote poets are the true legislators (and cannot be bought).

          • No the Irish language.


            Forcing kids to learn a useless language that is not even their mother tongue for 13 years.

          • bonbon

            The use of a language then is measured in Bitcoin (gold is well too vulgar)? The use of culture, that immediate target of the oligarchy now eviscerating Ireland, is to serve? That is a bit Cromwellian, would’nt you think Squire?

          • What has Bitcoin got do do with the Irish language Mr. bonbon?

            You are off your rocker dude.

            I don’t care about Cromwell, nor the Irish language. Both are dead and buried.

            I don’t care about some abstract concept called the Republic of Ireland either – a failed state. Not that I even believe in states and nations. They are false.

            Although I like quite a few people here on this island. I like quite a few people elsewhere too though. Just as many.

            And I treat people as I want to be treated. I’d treat you with manners if I met you, would you do likewise?

            Gold is useless. I’m not interested in jewellery and I’m not building a security apparatues to protect a lump of yellow rock from some robber (like I might become) if the shit hits the fan.

            Bitcoin is a useful tool and an interesting concept and that’s about it.

            I’m a free man Mr. bonbon, that’s what I care about – you should try it.

          • bonbon

            Actually you just said learning and stepping outside sense perception was “not worth the money”. Poetry, language step one out of that “greasy bitcoin till”.

            The Nietzschean “freedom” you proclaim, a “throwness”, even a “tabula rasa”, is rather Fabian, would’nt you think. Treating other with such liberal manners has a certain Trevelyan sound to it.

          • No clue Mr. bonbon.

            You are way too smart for me with your thespian references.

          • Spending money on the Irish language is not worth – the money.

            You know what I meant and you do yourself a disservice by playing the fool (well I mean on purpose this time).

          • DB4545

            I think Adam has a point on the Irish language issue. I’m of the generation that was “schooled” by the “Christian” Brothers(the Waffen SS of the Irish education system). I think Des Bishop has highlighted the issue very effectively. Immersion in the language and culture for a year and Des has fluency (at his expense?). Thirteen years of taxpayer resources indoctrinating kids and all they have is the “cupla focal” bullshit. It’s a failed policy and a complete waste of taxpayer resources. Maybe it’s time to look at Israel or Wales and learn how they’ve succeeded in having a genuine love for their language. Peig Sayers anyone? Thankfully I never let a Christian Brothers schooling interfere with my education.

          • Colin


            Good luck bringing your mate Gerry Adams on board with that.

            bonbon is already toeing the line.

          • Don’t care what Gerry Adams thinks Colin.

            No interest in getting him ‘on board’ for anything.

            I keep my own counsel.

          • cooldude

            Well done Adam in standing up to the fascist element on this blog. Anything that is not voluntary is fascist and our mate Bonbon and all his LaRouche buddies are out and out fascists. Of course a child and his parents should have the right to decide what he/she learns at school. It is a simple matter of freedom of choice which all fascists hate.

            My own views are quite similar and I deem myself a libertarian. The basic premise of this is that I take full responsibility for all my actions and don’t expect any nanny state to look after me or my family. It also means I fully respect the rights of others and will never try to use force on another person either physically or mentally except in self defense. This extends to all my views and is the basis of how I make all my decisions. Freedom is where it is at brother.

          • Thanks cooldude.

            Freedom is right.

            Freedom is where it’s at and it’s perfectly attainable for every single child on this planet.

            There’s more than enough for everyone on Earth to have a decent standard of living.

            We just have to keep going one step at a time but in the meantime look after yourself, your friends and family.

  10. David,

    A bank bail-in involves deleting money from depositor’s accounts such that the money won’t exist once the bail-in is complete.

    The result is the banks’ liabilities (‘deposits’ from customers) decrease and so the banks’ balance sheets are made to look more healthy. At that point the banks are in a better position to create money through loans again.

    This is an important point. The Cypriot economy was short of money and I would question the logic of deleting money from people’s accounts help at a time when they obviously need it most?

    On this note, the paragraph on the bail-in is misleading. Might we expect some acknowledgement of this in any future discussion on bail-ins?

  11. “A bank bail-in involves deleting money from depositor’s accounts such that the money won’t exist once the bail-in is complete”

    Is it not the case that the depositors funds are bailed in by being converted to equity shares so the money still exists as it is now received by the bank in exchange for the shares. The bank now has increased reserves. i.e. a liability is stolen and thus becoming the property of the bank is converted to an asset immediately.

    A double whammy of exchanged fortune. Not just being rid of a liability but increasing an asset too.

    • bonbon

      Who would buy share in a defunct bank? Draghi? You must be joking see this : Andrea Enria, the chairman of the European Banking Authority (EBA), in an interview the {Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung} in November, declared that so far in the EU, {not enough} banks have been closed down following the crisis. In the EU, he said, “there have been fewer than 40 institutions, by comparison with the United States where there were about 500.”

      They are going to cull the herd of banks. Whether the robbed will get a share before or after the cull is not stated.

  12. redriversix

    Good Morning Ladies & Gentleman

    We apologize for the break in transmission yesterday

    This was due to a fault from the mast on the Mourne Mountains.

    Normal service has now resumed.

    This morning heading of for another day of negotiations with Banks & into the Four Courts later for more justice.

    Have to remind myself “to keep things simple” & to remember whats important.

    have a great day

    be careful out there !

    • Transmission went down Barry because of lack of subscription for mobiles.
      land lines are more reliable if you have one? I could with a number of land line. Keeping things simple, right. Old tech HaHa
      Thinking of you and you generate a smile.:)
      It’s a great day if you’r Irish!!!
      Take care.

    • Ryu Hayabusa

      Good Morning/Evening RR6..

      Top o’ the mornin’/evenin’ to you.

  13. Quietly the (US)10 year bond yield has risen to and above 2.8%. This is significant and something that very few are talking about. Those in the mainstream that do mention it are pointing to the “strength” in the economy as the reason. This is pure hogwash. Interest rates are rising for one reason and one reason alone, foreigners are selling Treasury bonds. –Bill Holter

    The reason why silver continues to languish is purely a political one. Silver, along with gold, compete against fiat currencies. All [Western]currencies are issued by central banks. All central banks are owned by the elites, New World Order, [NWO], the moneychangers, call them whatever you will. These elites have a vested interest in preserving the Ponzi monopoly they have enjoyed ever since Mayer Amschel Rothschild discovered the power of interest collected on debt, over 200 years ago.

    -Edge Trader Plus, December 14, 2013

  14. long term bond rates double over 17 months. Debt has doubled over 5 years.
    Double /double = 4 time more interest to pay.
    Debt will stifle and the interest rate suffocate.

  15. Government tariffs on gold of 10% and on silver of 15% have created a black market and premiums over world prices of 2025%.
    One billion gold loving Indians are likely to change government over this issue.
    The cracks are appearing in the paper market suppression. Is gold / silver about to do a bitcoin?

    • Colin


      Do the Irish salaried professional do-gooders who organise and raise money from Irish lefty liberals for the street children of Calcutta know about the 1 billion Gold hoarders there who prefer to hoard gold than look after their own children?

      ….they’re taking the piss!

      • Colin, I am sure there are a lots everywhere needing help.
        I tend to follow the creed, “charity begins at home” .Family, friends, neighbours in that order.

        They are not hording in the sense of stashing everything they can get a hold of. They know the paper money is inflating and would rather have “savings” for a rainy day or dowry held in something trusted as a store of value.

  16. The QE black hole will suck in all financial assets. Paper fiat note ones that is.

    World wide money expansion increases the intensity of the competitive currency devaluations.

    Tapering is all talk with no traction.

    Protect yourself.

    I know a man with no income other than 45 pound a week allowance as a carer managed to buy a coin or two of silver every so often on ebay. He told me he paid 20-25% premiums at times. He did it anyway.
    Over the last 4 years his stash has gone to over 4000 pounds sterling and will likely see 40,000 pounds the next 5 years.

    Some here will say it is impossible or he had to be rich. It is all in a state of mind and the desire. How rich you are, or not, is irrelevant.

    Society and the economy will not be a pretty sight but there will be some buying power in his stocking.

  17. Paul Divers

    Cringe-Worthy Jargon That Should Be Retired Before 2014

  18. bonbon

    A timely reminder is required, early and often, on what “libertarian” means :
    The Legacy Of Friedrich Von Hayek: Fascism Didn’t Die With Hitler

    For those who may wonder at the Austrian School, the report is refreshing is’nt it? We have politicians saving us from bail-out by bailing-in – the wallet fleeced twice by such fancy terms “bail-in” straight from boating. Even fancier, “sound money” from goldbugs. Tigers have been taken in by swindlers, fine speakers, and filthy speakers. Time for a change.

    • whatamess

      The Austrian, Keynesian, Hayekian schools of “free markets” uses as their axiom, inner feelings of HOPE that growth will appear magically in “spontaneous” and “unknowable” ways which is basically casino economics and is just letting humanity’s FUTURE and people’s LIVES to mere CHANCE … a casual, nonchalant attitude of a ‘roll of the dice’ strategy and really just an a-la-carte system of absurd ‘beliefs’,with NO foundation in logic or common sense.

      A MONEY centric ‘philosophy’ of economics with unsubstantiated and absurd notions that an ECONOMY doesn’t require the driving force of our human creativity? This is a “bottom-up” model, that true to it’s impotent form, only ever SUBTRACTS. Just destructive reductionism at it’s core and can only ever result in entropy.

      The TBTB casino banking cartel are all products of these schools of ‘thought’ ( that’s a laugh!) with inevitable outcomes and RESULTS such as Wall St’s $14+ Quadrillion in toilet paper, which in my mind, is the poster child of this “bottom up”, Fabian model of economics

      • Jabberwocky

        Austrian Schools – Posh – I only got to go to go to school in Dublin.

      • bonbon

        And on top of that Von Hayek argued in his Mandeville lecture at the London School of Economics, his employer, that Mandeville’s poem, “The Fable of the Bees,” was perhaps the greatest philosophical treatise ever composed. He credited Mandeville with inspiring Adam Smith’s argument for the unbridled free market.

        Now we know Mandeville turned up here in Ireland as the Hell Fire Club boss. Apparently born in Rotterdam, he followed King Billy, who slaughtered the English and then the Irish, over. Now there is the foundation of “libertarianism” !

        • just plain silly comments
          Go and look at the foundation of your LaRouche creed. Followers encouraged nay instructed to pick up baseball bats and use martial arts and beat the opposition to submission. c.1970′s

          If anyone out there thinks I am tying to be a smart ass and enjoin in a tit for tat with bon bon do some research on LaRouche. Here is a sample.

          LaRouche runs a cult and anyone expounding his various theses has a programmed mind. I am quite serious. Do your research.

          So beware of bonbon and whatamess. Both minds are addled.

          • Here is another little sample

            Dennis King, author of Lyndon LaRouche and the New American Fascism, argues that often reporters avoid “the terms `fascist,’ and `neo-Nazi’ which alone could adequately express [LaRouche's] aims and methods.”18 Former U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan, however, used the terms “fascist” and “neo-Nazi” to warn of the danger posed by the LaRouche group. 19

      • Putting Keynes and the Austrian school in the same barrel is mixing oil and water. They are opposed in doctrine not similar.

        The monetary policy belongs to no school or philosophy other than the central bankers.
        It issues all money as debt.
        It accrues interest.
        It is never paid off because the currency is an iou.
        It requires an ever expanding increase in order to maintain the system.
        The increases must be faster and more each time,
        The exponential blow off phase is upon us.

        That is, it is a top down imposed system of money and not a free market in money.

        Put the blame where it resides. With the Rothschild central bankers and co and the 146 commercial enterprises owned by the bankers, mentioned by Dwalsh and cooldude, who are rapidly hovering up the worlds productive capacity and indebting the rest of humanity in the process.

        You observe the results but do not see the cause :)

    • suggesting those of libertarian philosophy or sound money advocates “are swindlers, fine speakers, and filthy speakers” is the kind of trash LaRouche has exclaimed for over 45 years.
      Change may be due but not to anything the warped LaRouche suggests.
      Do your research. Google Lyndon LaRouche and find out why he was convicted to 15 years in jail.
      Go on, I dare you!!

      How about this little entry
      ” LaRouche later suggested that history would not judge harshly those who beat gay people to death with baseball bats to stop the spread of AIDS. 13″
      OR this
      ” A top spokesperson of the Anti-Defamation League has said of LaRouche: “He is a small-time Hitler, if I can put it that way, in that he regurgitates many little things that Hitler did but he does it in a somewhat ambivalent way, in a somewhat camouflaged way.” 17″

      So I will post it again for you to read. Take no more garbage from bonbon or his ilk.

      Anybody supporting LaRouche/bonbon is tarred with the same brush.

  19. Jabberwocky

    Your father, Enda, is inspired and is NOW – after three year – going to create jobs!-He exclaims?

    • whatamess

      I noticed left gaze bias in Enda from his most recent ‘appearance’on TV…confirms that there is jackal in him!

      • Ryu Hayabusa

        Would that be Day of the Jackal… or Carlos the Jackal?

        Enda’s an OAS operative!

        How do you stop the Jackal? How do you stop the clock?

        • EMMETTOR

          I saw Enda in person recently, at the end of Grafton Street, apparently promoting some class of food product in jars, to the obvious delight of the assembled camera crews and photographers and the bemusement of shoppers. I tried to get his attention by staring at him, this sometimes works you know and eventually, yes, I caught his eye. For a millisecond the hate that beamed from my gaze scorched his already blackened soul…then he looked down at the little jars again. Did I ever tell you I met Bertie outside an Irish Dancing feis in Drumcondra?

  20. whatamess

    Creativity and imagination are defining attributes of our humanity and these unique qualities are what separates us from EVERY other species. Actively expressing this uniqueness is key to the evolution of mankind and an environment in which we can freely express said creative humanity, is crucial.

    Hamilton banking embraces this human spirit, while all other schools, choose an insanely illogical approach, rooted in an irrational belief that “free markets”, with Zeeero creative intervention by humanity, will yield the necessary growth ,to meet the current physical economy’s realities.

    Hamilton’s economic approach, [as we are talking ECONOMICS, not money ] has as it’s axiom, it’s starting point, our human CAPABILITY of imagination, creativity, reason and wilful intent. Hamilton proposes a MISSION based economic strategy, dedicated to GROWTH (i.e. Addition, not subtraction) using a SCIENTIFIC TRUTHFUL approach and from this starting point, from this axiom, the FUTURE progress of humanity, is the ONLY focus. From this NEW axiom, all else can flow and will flow i.e. A “top-down” model of GROWTH.

    The Hamiltonian , “top-down” approach is cleansing the entire system “from the inside out” , sublime in it’s simplicity – a symphony! ANYTHING else ,is just more of the same, out of date, certainly not modern, and utterly unscientific solutions, that will not yield a necessary abundant harvest, to satisfy the current 7Billion, not to mind a FUTURE of 25+Billion people and FREE us all from enslavement!

    Neo of The Matrix fame chooses , by design, to go to “The Mainframe” asap ,and establishes this axiom to his particular cause ,as he understands he can only influence the NECESSARY change in a REAL way from there and ONLY there. The alternative CHOICE ,is the “bottom up” approach, of being a busy fool ( as they say in Cork ) constantly parrying with the evil and relentless “Mr. Smith(s)” and is wasting PRECIOUS time figuring out new ways of outsmarting & evading him/them ,rather than ‘dutifully’ focusing his concerted efforts of getting to “The Mainframe”,from where he can affect real significant change, in a TRULY prolific, “top down” ,purposeful way to the benefit of ALL humanity. ( “Zion” )

    ring a bell?

    • Jabberwocky

      Yep, but judging by some of the post here there is along way to go, the cave man is still in abundance. gold wrinkles twinkles shining shin in the blind minds eye.

    • cooldude

      You really need to check on your FACTS on what Hamilton’s purpose was. He was simply a lackie for the large european banks who wanted to introduce their system of debt based money into the new world. He even married into the Rothschild family and became their envoy to create a central bank in America and force them to pay interest on every dollar created. Luckiily for America at the time they saw through who exactly this guy was and shut down his central bank scheme. The second half of the nineteenth century, when America had no central bank, is still to this day the most prosperous period in it’s history with negligible unemployment, strong growth and a mild deflation in consumer prices which suited everyone except the bankers.

      You really need to check up on your facts but your mind is probably so full of your La Rouche indoctrinated bullshit that you can’t tell fact from fiction anymore. Your top down system is just another form of banker controlled totalitarianism even if you can’t see this simple fact.

        • whatamess

          Oh,shots across the bow …good ;)

          nothing too it now, but to have it out

          MY mind is FUTURE centric and my COMMON SENSE alone, INFORMS me that an economy will NOT , can NOT grow from ANY money or hybrids thereof, in mar dhea “free markets” – That’s just casual MISPLACED TRUST and HOPE ,and LIVES are on the line! Thinking like that, as I did too, for no good and valid reasons, is just an absurd ,self-delusional belief system that’s totally counter productive (i.e. Destructive ) in the extreme and can and will only ever lead to deterioration. “And all those who think post even an ‘orderly’ CRASH, all will RESET in a knowable/sensible way, is just BLIND optimism bias!

          So we need a NEW economic platform. “An upwardly evolution-driven economy.” .The “top down” approach for HUMANITY’S future MUST start with an axiom of people using their ARTFUL imagination, their culture and creativity, the ESSENCE of who we are as a species, and sculpt in our minds ,what the world ‘could’ look like and then, humanity utilises SCIENCE to help REALISE that vision, as science is TRUTH. (verifiable by FACT , not fancyful wishful thinking )

          When LaRouche mentions science,your knee jerk reaction is to then DENY science??! C’mon !!?

          People ACT in accordance with their BELIEFS, right? Not knowledge. Knowledge is just a subset of beliefs and while its cool to figure stuff out, its waaaay more important what we believe, or do NOT believe, coz that’s all it takes to inform our ACTIONS!

          Science, the only REAL ART and exemplar of TRUTH, is the DISCOVERY of scientific principles that test the truthfulness of your assertions and these fact and evidence based findings ,which you can prove and demonstrate, will of course CONTRADICT what you currently ‘believe’. Faced with changing your beliefs on a subject matter , it naturally follows that you will likely resist that change, as you may have had predetermined beliefs that are now NOT testing well and this flies in the face of what you believe and facing that, is very very challenging for the mind,especially with the conditioning heaped on from a young age.

          But of course,the TRUTH is your compass to find the True North for navigating such choppy waters.

          Just because you don’t see / don’t want to see , empire, doesn’t mean the ‘shnaffle’ duzn’t exist,in REALITY.

          With a “misty” mindset,it becomes difficult to ever successfully arrive at a VALID or REAL determination of what the future,in all aspects, ‘could’ look like.And without that clarity,how you ever can realise REAL solutions??

          Your own SENSE PERCEPTIONS blind you of forward VISION and that’s what’s needed NOW ,”men who could dream of things that never were and ask “why not??”

          • whatamess

            So when engaging with Bonbon on ‘money’ as an axiom to the future,he probably does his own fair share of ‘flinching’, at the mere thought of even dipping his big toe, not to mind going for a swim with enthusiastic ‘practical’ Tigers here, in that festering pond of logical fallacies.

            MONEY , has Zeeero to do with humanity’s quest of TRUTH

          • whatamess

            Then with this paradigm shift in our MINDS first,why not CHOOSE a mission based axiom ??!!! We can agree the mission protocols later..

            There has been mention here on DMW’s blog of long term, hi tech MEGA projects that are maybe solely ENERGY centric. Let’s do that then ! That’s why FIRE is our greatest GIFT to humanity! FUSION! It can launch humanity upwardly to the next evolutionary level, which of course has always been humanity’s focus, right? To GROW!

            To counter the heinous damage inflicted on us, the necessary ACTION must be on a grand scale, in order to meet the current PHYSICAL economic realities.

            Bonbon has illustrated examples of how ,with our new axiom ,we can aggressively ‘tackle’ the Biosphere realities to again addresses the evolution of life ( which for loads of people here is a “snooze buton” of a word simply because of conditioning )This daring PLAN flies in the face of what you think or PERCEIVE is likely or even possible ,so true to form,you’ll conveniently find a “pacifier” and predictably “get busy on the proof”…and MENTAL SHUTTERS come down abruptly!!!!

            “Debt, is future consumption brought forward” or put another way, “current borrowing is future consumption, DENIED, when borrowed for consumption” (i.e.consumption debt ) However when borrowed ,for lets say, mission based,long term, non proprietary MEGA projects, the debt is PRODUCTIVE debt ( i.e. adding, not subtracting) and certainly NOT more of the bubbles we’ve had for DECADES, leaving only craters and endless DESPAIR. We are in a deeeep hole everybody and need economic LIFT OFF, not mere “traction” from the windowsill spuds and cabbage brigade.

            PROPULSION is needed NOW!”

            Hamiltonian national banking must take center stage again after being crushed 100+ years ago giving us the horrors of the bust monetary machine”

            todhchai nios fear !!

          • cooldude

            Interesting concepts whatamess and I have to say you have a much better grasp of the art of debate than your buddy Mr Bonbon. I understand and accept some of your concepts but I think you have a blind spot when it come to the Fed and central bankers in general. The whole show is run by these guys and their exclusive control of what we use as money. They are private institutions whose shareholders are the large commercial banks so expecting them to act in the interest of the people is beyond naive. They act only in the interests of their shareholders and will continue to rob us covertly through inflation and overtly through bail ins and the like until we are all debt slaves and their subjects. The system they are introducing is feudal to the extreme. Carroll Quigly explains this well in his book Tragedy and Hope. Unless this system is taken down you can forget about your VISION. They also control most of the global corporations. See DWalsh comments on 147 corporations who control the world above.

        • Mr Whatamess

          A top down planned economy has been tried many times and never worked.
          A free economy allows creativity and nimbleness of foot required for the constant adjustments required for survival in the hurly burley jumble of events that compose modern society and economy.
          a free economy cannot function when the medium of exchange is distorted. That is the money used.
          Top down planning exists to the extreme in our society. governments are exhorted to do this and that, and castigated for not achieving this or that.
          We have arbitrary volumes of extra currency being pumped into the world economy to allegedly increase activity, persuade people to consume, to sop up the over production etc.
          We have artificially induced the lowest ever interest rates.

          I could go on. The point to make that we already have what you propose, a top down planned economy.

          Scrambling the whole issue is the tight connection of many businesses with government policies. Government leaders and cooperate directorships are a mere one step away. Goldman Sachs for instance appears to actually run the world via the central banking system.

          From Mark Carney to Henry Paulson to Mario Dragi et al (e )are all GS alumni and there are hundreds more.

          Overlying the total economy is the control of the issuance of all currencies around the world, barring a handful, using the central banking system of control. none of these countries control the issuance of their own currency and yet this monopoly is approved by government statute and embedded in law.

          Here is the ultimate top down control of the economy and the government too. Here is what must be addressed before all other things. Nothing else, however worthy on its own account, will succeed until the central banking system is removed. Nothing can, will, be done until the people understand this one issue.

          I have been accused of having a blind spot but I have yet to have one person openly debate this issue. If I am wrong and the thousands of others who proclaim the same are wrong, then it should be easy to show the error in logic. Nobody here has used that logic but instead resort to name calling of the equivalent of “your mother is a whore”, or relying on common sense.

          So here is the challenge. Who amongst you can logically state and demonstrate that the current debt based interest charging money system we use is beneficial in any way and should remain?

          Who can demonstrate that the current money system is not a gargantuan Ponzi scheme of such immense scale that nobody believes it to be possible?

          Who agrees that it is fine to have your money and economy and government controlled by anonymous bankers organized through the Bank of International Settlement (BIS) a private corporate entity?

          Three simple questions. What do you think and why?

      • bonbon

        I think Hamilton had the right to marry his choice. AFAIK he was born in Britain. Sure, even Benjamin Franklin and Arthur Griffith were British subjects. Now that I think of most bloggers here had British grandparents.

        As for banking, the model “central bank” the B.E is based on the Bank of Amsterdam, a Venetian fondi projects. Have a look at Piazza San Marco, those golden wings on animals all looking east to Babylon. There you have it.

    • Ah I see. Bonbon2 Another LaRouche lip syncer.

    • michaelcoughlan


      Moral though is what separates humans from other species. Some primates demonstrate creativity. Bees build magnificent cities in their hives. Beavers build damns and underwater entrances to redoubts constructed in the lake they just made. Birds build nests.

      No room for moral thought in either the far left or the far right.

      Hamilton COINED gold and silver.

      • bonbon

        Ah yes the beavers. Birds have been building the same nests for 25 million years, and may the do it for another. We are entirely different, as the birds know well. My cat knows there is a huge uncrossable gulf and likes it that way.

        Fire makes us different, and a much more powerful principle. The biosphere does and will be greatly expanded by projects like NAWAPA XXI, greening deserts just to start. It is the Noosphere where it is at!

        • michaelcoughlan


          “We are entirely different, as the birds know well. My cat knows there is a huge uncrossable gulf and likes it that way”

          Your cat Bonbon? Did he write to you or send you an email with his observations?

          Its an awwwwwwwwful pity Dermot Morgan is dead with stuff like this being posted on public forum websites.

          When you get your new time machine go back in time and show him this post. He wont do father ted with you around the place. He will just video you and travel forward in time to put it up on youtube!

      • Ryu Hayabusa

        Ecclesiastes 3:19

        For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; and man hath no preeminence above the beasts: for all is vanity.

  21. Jabberwocky

    I feel like a helpless one eyed king in the land of the blind I am just hoping something will poke out my good eye so that I can become blind and laugh too. We are living in a pre Nazi like world and like most people back then, there is blind complicit appeasement.

  22. Jabberwocky

    Irish banks remain source of ‘some concern’ – Mario Draghi
    He said what he called “outstanding issues” still required swift and decisive action.
    He finally coped on to what’s wrong he must got in a remedial teacher-five years to late

  23. Jabberwocky

    Dictators supported by the US – McCain’s friends to darken up your brightest hours

    El Salvador: Maximiliano Hernandez Martinez “It is a greater crime to kill an ant than a man,”

    When you’re down and troubled And you need a helping hand And nothing, nothing is going right Close your eyes and think of me And soon I will be there To brighten up even your darkest night You just call out my name And you know wherever I am I’ll come running to see you again Winter, spring, summer or fall All you have to do is call And I’ll be there You’ve got a friend

  24. Ryu Hayabusa

    So funny… the joust between Bruton & Mary Lou McDonald this evo.

    He claimed the Government’s ‘strategic plan’ couldn’t possibly be expected to have all the “detail” in there.

    She retorted by simply stating it didn’t have any of the “detail” in there.

    He received about 80% of the speaking time and still managed to talk over her.

    Noonan’s ducking stool really did a number on that fella!

  25. Ryu Hayabusa

    Their cut&paste report predicts either strong growth or very strong growth.

    Anyone daring to utter anaemic / no growth or horror of horrors… economic contraction erm, sorry ‘negative growth’ shall be derided as a naysayer “talking down the economy” as if by seeking to utter such terms they might be willed into BEING!!!

    Lock & Load.


      “Negative Growth”, yes they repeat this jibberish over and over and over and over, then it starts to be accepted. Of course, it’s not jibberish, it’s carefully planned semantic management. Thank you, Doctor Spin.

  26. Ryu Hayabusa

    Morpheus: Do you believe in fate Neo?
    Neo: No.
    Morpheus: Why not?
    Neo: Because I don’t like the idea that I’m not in control of my life…
    Morpheus: I know exactly what you mean!

    Take the path less travelled.

    Choisissez la pilule rouge!

  27. cooldude

    Meanwhile the US slips closer to totalitarianism by the day.

  28. joe hack

    The end of the troika distraction will underline the reality of Ireland’s economy, if for no other reason this is a good thing as it will focus more attention on the reality of the mess we are.

    It wasn’t the fault the troika that we got into this mess (if only we got rid the troika all will be well) three years and this government have done nothing to improve the economy, now that the troika has gone in to the shadows who are they going to blame for their incompetence.

    Who are they going look to when searching for a distraction – a new pantomime season has just started and the press will be ball watching.

    A lesson ‘at Home’ economics would not go astray here there no knight in shining armour, even if there was a willing one, the knights horse is lame – they shoot horses don’t they.

  29. whatamess, bonbon: ta for seriously on-topic contributions *smirks*

    • bonbon

      Neither this blog nor the “recovery is not some sort of Victorian morality costume drama”. Disturbing to Adam Smithian “Moral Sentiments” though it may be, the facts I posted about the goldbug agenda just shows how rusty it is. We are not about to let some “shit in a silk stocking” Talleyrand or Trevelyan cull us again, are we?

  30. whatamess

    “How do we finance such MEGA projects?”

    If that was your very very first thought,then you are being predictably ‘practical’ and NOT utilising your imagination and creativity, which some would say is a God given blessing ,a Gift , so why not EMBRACE it and USE it then?…, and take CONTROL of our future, combining our imagination and science, poetry in motion

    Glass Steagall even for the supremely ‘practical’, join-the-dot crew here( and I was a General in said crew, so I’m trying my best to not so sound pretentious and patronising, believe it or not? ) ticks all the boxes. While practicality is important too of course, it certainnly doesn’t trump the human spirit of creativity, right?!

    Looking to the FUTURE , Glass Steagall can be OUR collective creative, PURPOSEFUL INTERVENTION and the LIBERATING “external force !”..,

    Newton’s first law INFORMS me ,and I know NOT to casually/nonchalantly IGNORE basic physics ,the REALITY of INACTION i.e. A cataclysmic event, setting our human species back in time, perhaps at warp speed. FACT! ( just a matter of timelines if NO intervention)…

  31. whatamess

    Physics,Science is TRUTH and our Minds are a Force of Nature!
    “It is PURPOSE that created us, connects us, guides us, drives us, defines us”. Glass Steagall is this punctum saliens, to INTELLIGENTLY serve the ‘Common Good’ and creatively terminate / END the “penury and Totalitarian enslavement” ,embodied in the current financial system of looting EMPIRE,destroying humanity’s Hope for a Future!

    To answer that all important funding question of MEGA projects , Glass Steagall , no fantasy stuff , but rather TESTED with RIGOR for decades, CAN BE humanity’s designed intervention ,and it’s HONEST implementation will OPEN the credit streams again, when we sever the leverage /GAMBLING derivative arms, from this BEAST…

    This is SURVIVAL everybody ,not a game of ‘rock ,paper scissors !’ Looters ,Pirates and pickpockets only subtract are not creative and have NO intentions of eeeverrr CHANGING! Just more Fabian subtraction!
    GS will CHANGE their NATURE!

    FACE THIS FACT ,(all smirkers v.welcome)

    Forget “boots on neck” or “your nuts in a vice like grip while being unmercifully strangled”" and “coughing canaries” too….

    With No ‘lippy’ i say ,the proverbial guillotine blade HAS indeed already fallen and is NOW in free-fall ,in a thundering fashion and humanity is the intended victim!

    (and ‘some’ here are “gouging eyes” and “gettin’ busy on the proof !!!” ….Jeeez Louuuueeeeeeze !)

    Some here “will never hear that shot that kills you”

    • “Physics,Science is TRUTH”

      As amended and added to from time to time.
      Art is illusory and appreciated in different perspectives. The Art of the propagandists conceals and distorts the truth.

  32. bonbon

    I never accused libertarians of all three epithets – swindling, fine and filthy words, with murderous intent, at least not at the same time, nor all of the time. But to endure all three insults at different times from different mugs even some of the time, is just too much of the time.

    Even DMcW is beyond endurance, at least some of the time.

  33. whatamess

    The ONLY way NOW of not getting ‘the chop’,is to reinstate our designed mechanism of Glass Steagall. Then with GS in it’s rightful place of PROTECTING us,a REAL THRIVING PURPOSEFUL RECOVERY can take place! Then Hamiltonian banking approach allows a healthy recapitalisation based on a credit system of national commitment to humanity’s PROGRESS —- Everybody back to work, up stream, down stream, a REAL functioning economy with NO more limits to growth poison and an environment where entrepreneurialism will FLOURISH ! And it must flourish to keep pace with the TANDEM mission based MEGA element of the recovery PLAN.

    With Glass Steagall,we will creatively “check-mate” the Empire of Anglo-Dutch oligarchy/ Rothschilds etc

    Freedom is HUMANITY, minus empire …ANYTHING else is just more illusionary ‘limbo dancing’ to the oligarchs’ tune and ought to be OPPOSED by ALL of us,creatively..

    Glass Steagall,2014

    Believe it !!!!!! It’s Real and Truthful

    • Even your mentor LaRouche agrees the implementation of Glass Steagall will create a Wall Street and London financial collapse

      I am afraid your prospects of GS providing the basis for a recovery will prove to be illusionary.

      Consider the effects of our fiat money system and its removal before all else. The fact that GS is promulgated in the press is because the PTB wish the propagated distraction to avert our gaze from the real powers behind the thrones. The PTB continue to forward their nefarious plans in full view of those able to see with directly in front.

  34. whatamess

    It is that quality of the Irish–that remarkable combination of hope, confidence, and imagination–that is needed more than ever today. The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics, whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were, and ask why not. It matters not how small a nation is that seeks world peace and freedom, for, to paraphrase a citizen of my country, “the humblest nation of all the world, when clad in the armor of a righteous cause, is stronger than all the hosts of Error.”

  35. bonbon

    DMcW does make a good few points about what recovery is not.

    He could add that a recovery will never spring forth spontaneously from any amount of goldbug gold, and especially not from the insane casino of vice still intact, firmly biting at the jugular. And neither from the fine words of most Nobel Prize luminaries, even Kilkenomics regulars.

    Alexander Hamilton would not get a Nobel Prize today, and did have an excellent command of language and banking, and sheer genius in economics.

  36. bonbon

    Alexander Hamilton was shot by U.S. Vice President Burr (July 11, 1804), in a duel over Hamilton’s exposé of Burr’s treason. This is the Burr who launched the Andrew Jackson project, Austrian School favorite icon.

    A bit of american history for the locals. But the Austrian school hails neither from Dublin nor Philadelphia, rather from the Club of the Isles London school of Economics. In other words the british Fabian Round Table.

    Just in case someone claims it came from the gold-bearing rock seams (wherever they might be).

  37. Ryu Hayabusa

    A duel at 50 paces…. who bears the velvet glove?

  38. Ryu Hayabusa

    There’s a duel happening in a global context between the unrighteous and the righteous…

    Which faction shall prevail?

    Cast down thee Banker filth… thou art nowt but a stain on humanity, an abomination!

  39. Ryu Hayabusa

    Vincenzo railing against the ‘Bail In/Out’

    A le Mickey Noonan at Lonergan’s ball…. Bail- In ..Out ..In Out… In/Out Shake it all about.

    “Ah yeah, we all wint a bit mad there fore a whiile, sa we dit. We cant be doin’ dat agin” proclaimeth Mickster NooNAN.

  40. Ryu Hayabusa

    I feel a craving for some “knettle” soup… with just a pincée of parsley. :)

  41. joe hack

    What Is That You Said

  42. Ryu Hayabusa

    I was making a jibe at myself… whatamess caught me in sleep depravation, moonshine mode misspelling NETTLE!! :D

  43. Here is to Organics Michael

    China said to reject more than 500K tons of US corn: Bloomberg reported that China has rejected more than half a million metric tons of genetically modified US corn in November and December, almost three times the amount it previously announced. China’s Ministry of Agriculture said in 6-Dec that it rejected the grain because its safety is under review.–

    It’s time the US rejected its own corn!!

    • bonbon

      Obama is sending corn to the auto tank, by quota. Likely Monsanto modified it to burn better, get more mileage. Meanwhile a boom on the stuff worldwide.

      Monsanto et al are hell bent on starving those who can watch the limousines float by.


    US gold inhaled by China. First the gold then the economy then the country??
    Will Chinese inflation soon impact the west causing interest rates to rise?

    • Grey Fox

      Game over for Ireland if interest rates start to rise which they inevitably will. If Enda thinks mortgage arrears is bad now he is in for a big surprise. Our pleas will fall on deaf ears as Germany surges ahead, the poor cousins in their outpost on the edge of Europe will go the way of the southern cousins. Bank of Ireland downgraded by Moody’s today, no faith in internal stress tests.

      • Hey Mr. Greyfox
        Is it time to get up or to go to bed?
        You are in the twilight zone :)

        The only thing that will keep interest rates down is the monetization of the bond debt. That is all debt must in the end be bought by the central bank as private investors decline the risk at the low interest rates.
        Expect massive issuance of currency from central banks world wide in a last ditch attempt to suppress interest rates.
        Then at some point watch the volcano blow, the earthquakes rumble, and the thunderstorms gather.

        The bond market bubble will break and the interest rates double and triple from today. Oh yes and inflation ramp up. Not a pretty picture and the timing is unpredictable.

  45. 100 year birthday on little fan fare. Curiously quiet!??
    Give them a good send off and bury them. The fed and all central banks

  46. Perfect timing for our hoast to analyze the good the bad and the ugly of the money system as propagated by the Fed and the B. of E.

    How about a 100 year special edition David.

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