December 12, 2013

Bailout Exit. If goody goody Ireland is the model student, how come bad boy Greece is the star performer?

Posted in Banks · 357 comments ·

On May 1, 2003, President George Bush stood on the bridge of the USS Abraham Lincoln. Behind him a massive banner was unfurled, which read “Mission Accomplished”. The president declared success in Iraq and assured the American people that the victory was his, Saddam was defeated and there would henceforth be no more combat operations.

The vast majority of American and Iraqi casualties occurred after this date. In fact, the Iraqi insurgency kicked off after the American mission was declared accomplished.

When I hear our government spin doctors declare that “exiting the bailout” signals a “mission accomplished” moment, I am reminded of Dubya.

The economy here is turning slowly, not as a result of government policy but in spite of it.

The combination of a credit crunch, an overvalued exchange rate, higher and higher explicit taxes, stealth taxes of all sorts and a massive fiscal contraction is a recipe to poison even the healthiest economy, let alone one burdened by negative equity, broken balance sheets, which is actually one-fifth smaller than it was in 2008, and has 400,000 fewer people living in it.

That all these potentially fatal attributes couldn’t kill local business stone dead is testament to the achievement of thousands of small Irish businesses who have managed to stay open in the past few years.

The recovery, which in recent months finally began to make some dent in unemployment, is still fragile and could be derailed easily. So it must be protected.

Part of protecting the economy is being honest about it, being truthful with the people as to why things are happening and being alert to any unexploded financial landmines.

So concerned was the IMF about the unexploded landmine deep inside the banks that in its latest Fiscal Outlook, buried deep in the report, is a suggestion that a “capital levy” might be levied on wealth in the event that debt levels are not being brought down quick enough.

This is what happened in Cyprus where deposits over €100,000 were impounded to “bail in” the banks.

On page 49 of the report, the IMF makes this suggestion explicitly. These reports are never published without the people at the top agreeing to everything.

If we are to be honest, Ireland is exiting the bailout with gross debt as a percent of income, actually higher than it was when we went into the bailout. If Ireland were a company, it would have gone through a restructuring, yet it has more debt at the end of the restructuring than the beginning while still being cash-flow negative.

You would also imagine that leaving the bailout would also correspond with the country not having to borrow yet more every year. But this is not the case.

But why are the financial markets so keen to finance us if things haven’t improved significantly?

The answer to this question brings us a bit nearer the truth.

The Government has been very keen to spin “exiting the bailout” as a sign that Ireland is uniquely virtuous and is very different to the other countries that were similarly in the bosom of the troika.

The EU also wants to spin this line because, as leading indicators all over the eurozone turn down and deflation haunts Spain, Greece and Italy, the EU needs a victory. Olli Rehn and his mates in the ECB desperately need to argue that the way out of the crisis is to lumber the debts of others on to the shoulders on innocent taxpayers, while reducing rapidly government spending and increasing taxes.

But the interesting thing is that Ireland is not the best performing asset in Europe in the past 18 months. The best performing asset has been the IOUs of Greece. Greece is a country where GDP shrank 3pc in the past three months and where deflation is gripping the economy. Yet yields on Greek government IOUs have come down from 30pc to around 8pc. The same has happened everywhere. Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Irish bond yields have all come down in unison.

But if the Greeks are performing better than us, surely there is something else going on that is driving the risk premium in Ireland down than just Irish-specific news?

There is.

The key is Mr Draghi, the ECB boss. He has said he will “do whatever it takes to save the euro”. This means he will use the central bank’s balance sheet to buy the debt of governments in difficulty if needs be. Two years ago, he unveiled a scheme to force banks to buy government IOUs. This caused yields on peripheral government bonds to move downwards. Mr Draghi’s scheme worked as follows. The banks went to the ECB with bad collateral. They gave this to the ECB and the ECB gave the banks cash in return. The banks were compelled to use this cash to buy government bonds when they were yielding 5pc, 6pc and 7pc. This obviously meant that the banks could get a “free” interest rates “pick-up” by buying the bonds at these high rates. The ECB, in effect, underwrote the risk. This caused bond markets all over peripheral Europe to rally and it also made the profits of the banks much healthier.

The reason people are prepared to lend to us and lend to the Greeks is that they know that Mr Draghi will buy all the IOUs if he has to. So the first thing to appreciate is that Mr Draghi is the main reason Ireland is exiting the bailout.

The second issue outstanding is the fact that the Irish banks are still more or less bust, and what happens if they need more money? Where will it come from?

A capital levy perhaps? Now that’s something to think about before we declare Mission Accomplished.

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  1. Dorothy Jones

    Because in the Greek Bail-Out: 77% went into the Financial Sector : An anatomy lesson of where the money went in Greece

    • Early bird catches the worm Dorothy.

    • Wee Delusional People

      To 5fingers & Steven Below……

      “goldbugs….an elite” ?

      Interesting thought!

      Perhaps you also would extend the “elite” tag to a person who foolishly keeps 900euro in cash in a biscuit tin under the bed in order to have something outside the reach of the banking & government-vampire-squid.

      Perhaps a more clever “elite” type might chose a different currency – 900euro worth of sterling or dollar paper notes.

      Or as you mentioned a the truly obnoxious “elite” – might spend their 900euro on a single 1oz gold coin!

      Gold is the ONLY one of the above which is real money, and has a proven 6000 year history of preserving purchasing power and the fruits of my toil, sweat and labour!

      The others are all paper, which can be printed!

      Do you know what the “invisible enemy” means.


      All paper fiat currencies have a 100% record of going to zero! ZERO.

      The power to purchase NOTHING!

      Did you know that since 1971 the US$ has lost 80% of its value, and since the formation of the federal reserve in 1913 the $ has lost 98% of its value.

      Sterling, mark/euro and any other currency you chose have suffered similarly over-time.

      I let you go check out how 1oz of gold has done since then!

      For the bearded-proletariat-types, who prefer to stay away from this “elite” sinful monetary metal called gold, I suggest to keep your “thrash-cash” in the banking system and suffer the “hidden fees”, “bail-ins” and “ravages of inflation”

      I am much happier and sleep much more soundly knowing they cannot print more gold into existence.

      Perhaps you neither sport a beard nor have your snout feasting in the tax-payer trough, but you represent the banking sector.

      Of course then it is absolutely essential that the people dont learn about the benefits of saving in gold as this would undermine their fractional-reserve-money creation trick.

      So anybody else who cares about their financial security I urge you learn as much as possible about how central banking works, how fractional reserve banking works and how inflation will destroy your savings.

      Get your money out of the system and into which ever hard asset you are most comfortable with.

      I know what I am doing, and I sleep very well.

  2. David,

    Thank you for covering the topic of Bail-in’s. We (GoldCore) recently released a comprehensive report ‘From Bail-Outs to Bail-Ins: Risks and Ramifications’ describing what exactly Bail-ins are, where they are coming from, why and how the will likely manifest. Since it’s release the guide has been picked up right across the globe and has generated a lot of debate and comment.

    I believe that this move from bail-outs to bail-ins represents a massive shift in banking policy, has had little if any scrutiny and has been driven by unelected bureaucrats which have circumvented the democratic process.

    The fact is that European depositors are about to be hammered yet again by the powers that be. They have worked hard, paid their taxes and now their pensions and desposits are being devalued by rampant money printing, potentially explosive inflation, and taxes on puny interest returns and hidden fees.

    The social contract (you work hard, you get rewarded, you have control) at the heart of modern capitalism is being eroded, and the potential ramifications are truly disturbing on so many levels.

    The full research piece can be downloaded here (

    The summary version here ((

    The research does state that a small modest allocation to investment gold can give a degree of protection in times of uncertainty.

    If anyone needs to discuss the report and this topic in more detail, please email me.


    • 5Fingers

      Anyone today who has deposits or savings of any significance is rare. Very rare indeed – combined incomes of 70K/Annum for entire household represents the top 5% of population – and it was never really better than that.

      The social contract…you work hard, you get rewarded, you have control is an exception and always was for the vast majority. More like- you work hard, you get something, you have survived to work again.

      So, to put you in context, you are the probably one of the top 1% working to an audience of the top 3%. This is what annoys me about the Goldbugs…an elite looking after another elite.

      • Dear 5 Fingers,
        I do not like labels and I am not a Goldbug. I doubt very much I am in the top 1% of anything other then perhaps being frustrated with the status quo. I care very much for my country, our people and the future. I believe in being forewarned. I am not afraid to put my name out there and fly a flag for what I believe to be right. I believe in the merit of having a small allocation to gold.

        If you take the time to open your eyes and read our research you will see that it barely mentions gold, the primary advice is to spread your money about and not believe the guff being dished out by the authorities.

        Who said that having an opinion meant hiding who you really are, and what you really do. You are nameless.

        Focus on the ball and not the man.

        Stephen (that’s a real name)

        • Stephen
          you will run into the blind denial of reality on this blog. most thinking people have given up and stay home taking steps for their own preservation.

          you I am sure have a good report to offer so why lock it up demanding email addresses etc. to release it here. Unwrap the report and make it open to be read here without going through the requirement of exposure to gold core.

          Even though you genuinely wish to help you look like someone trying to stir more business.

          • Hi Tony,
            I hear you. The report is designed create an exchange of ideas and in some cases a commercial relationship where one is desired. If we gave the report out completely free it would have no value to the company and thus we would never have written it. It costs a lot of money to do this kind of research and present it in a digestible format. To ask for someone to give an email address is a very small price to pay. You can always then un-subscribe and we are legally obliged to never email you again. If you are totally averse to inputting an email you can put in a nonsense email and download the report off the page.


          • your comments are correct. It cost money to produce.
            I suggest you make an exception on this blog.

        • 5Fingers

          You are the status quo or in the top 3% is you can have even a small allocation of gold. The VAST majority of people who will be affected will not have any such opportunity.

          • Fact is if you have €100 a month to spare you can buy gold on a monthly basis. It is very very easy to do. I can tell you honestly that the clients we deal with are very normal every day people. They work hard, they have some savings and they allocate a small amount to gold, silver, cash, etc. Please refrain from labelling people, it does not engender a free exchange of ideas.

          • cooldude

            This article is about the possibility for confiscation of peoples deposits which is the fruits of their labour which they have worked hard for and put aside for a rainy day. A small allocation to gold could be as little as one sovereign coin which is worth around 250 euro. To label someone elite for taking personal responsibility for their savings by diversifying a small portion to a different form of savings which cannot be confiscated such as gold or bitcoin is total nonsense and you know it. Your hatred of alternative forms of money is gone way beyond logic and is now just blind irrational hatred.

          • 5Fingers

            A 1200 a year to spare…what planet are you on? A typical setback can blow that away. That is less than a young person’s car insurance. That would not pay for 1 years health insurance. The reality is that if you can save at all you can save lots – meaning you’re an elite.

            Play with this…

          • Did you get some bitcoin yet cooldude?

            GO BITCOIN!!!!!!!!!!!

          • whatamess

            When i hear or read the word Bitcoin,i immediately hear “Dawn Run and Forgive’nForget…Dawn Run and Right Hand Man..Dawn Run and Waywardlad!!” [* joyous applause & cheers Yeyhhhh!!* ]

            Bitcoin is just another punt Adam, another game on the casino floor,nothing more.

            Like ANY casino in Nevada or elsewhere, the owners are very polite, as they get busy fleecing you! At even 4am on the gaming floors in these ‘entertainment’ centers, the air you breath has been v.subtly adulterated with added oxygen, there are virtually no clocks to track time spent gambling, no windows alerting you to time of day and FREE drinks, to get you in the ‘desired’ head space!

            “The shits chess,it ain’t checkkkerz!” ;)

            The casino system of Wall St investments is now SO fu**ing rigged, that relatively ‘safe’ / traditionally v.low yield / long term investments, over maybe 20 years, now deliver maybe a zero return!.. just keeping pace with inflation, maybe. Shite odds ! So the punter ,if he/she wants even a modest return these days, must choose more and more risky bets…just where the casino owners want us !..playing new “exciting” games, the nuances of which ,simply escape most of us,if we are honest and REAL with ourselves!

            In ten years time, bootfairs’ll be full of old euro coins&notes,photos of wind turbines,bitcoins and of course stacks and stacks of paper documents – hard copies of credit default swaps, ALL stamped in red, ” rendered null and void by Glass Steagall 2014″

      • 5 fingers
        You are the one blinded by gold. Even the mention of a sound monetary system sends a red glaze over your eyes.
        You react, you no longer think

        • 5Fingers

          If you have deposits enough to even contempate Gold or other instruments…you are an elite. FULL STOP. This is the fundamental blind spot you have. You have no idea how unbelievably wealthy you actually are relative to 95% of the rest of the population.

          • I know exactly where I sit and have no blind spot at all. I enquire and evaluate.
            allocating a blind spot to me is a convenient label to dispose of me without further thought.
            contemplate the Chinese who according to reports are paid poor wages yet have the highest savings rate in the world who have a insatiable appetite for gold and silver and buy it a gram or less at a time. They know the value to society of honest money and shy from the perfidious fiat fostered upon them. To give the Chinese credit, the state encourages this attitude as they too know the value of honest money
            Poverty is relative, wealth too. I am sure that if your assets are added up and calculated in fiat you are wealthier than me. you also have current income and a pension to look forward to. I am retired with little income.

            I am in the elite as I still think and wonder and enquire. My points of view and suggestions are not for myself but for the general good. That is an elite I am happy to be a part of.

            it is quite possible that I will end my life totally devoid of physical assets and money as the current system robs us daily. I will do the best I can to protect myself and remain self sufficient and offer ideas to others to do the same or similar and I look for ideas from others that may assist me. We are community.

            Anger is not assistance.

          • 5Fingers

            China’s high saving rate is a dangerous call given the huge changes in that country AND there is a view that recent tough (& rough) corporate restructuring ensuring people can earn a decent wage and their rapid ageing pop have all played more important roles to induce sudden short term effects. There is an argument that Chinese saving rate may in fact peak in the medium term. They are a trader nation and very open to lots of ideas. See how bitcoin shot up there. Gold is just another victim.

            Your Comments on fiat currency are in no way substantiated by the Chinese situation at all.

            Now as for your circumstances – it is not relevant and continually throwing in the odd ad hominem comment on my emotional disposition merely distracts from the base fact that you are one of the very very few in your age demographic who can even contemplate Gold.

          • Are you trying to say the Chinese do not save and have no fiat money?
            I do not understand your remarks.


        Don’t catch this bug or you will get away with anything.
        Affluenza allows you to do anything you wish. Most politicians and banksters have caught it but thankfully not even the “elite” of the blog have it. Won’t be long though according to some here. Fortunately gold bugs never contact even the sniffles, they never get away with anything.

      • Wee Delusional People

        “goldbugs….an elite” ?

        Interesting thought!

        Perhaps you also would extend the “elite” tag to a person who foolishly keeps 900euro in cash in a biscuit tin under the bed in order to have something outside the reach of the banking & government-vampire-squid.

        Perhaps a more clever “elite” type might chose a different currency – 900euro worth of sterling or dollar paper notes.

        Or as you mentioned a the truly obnoxious “elite” – might spend their 900euro on a single 1oz gold coin!

        Gold is the ONLY one of the above which is real money, and has a proven 6000 year history of preserving purchasing power and the fruits of my toil, sweat and labour!

        The others are all paper, which can be printed!

        Do you know what the “invisible enemy” means.


        All paper fiat currencies have a 100% record of going to zero! ZERO.

        The power to purchase NOTHING!

        Did you know that since 1971 the US$ has lost 80% of its value, and since the formation of the federal reserve in 1913 the $ has lost 98% of its value.

        Sterling, mark/euro and any other currency you chose have suffered similarly over-time.

        I let you go check out how 1oz of gold has done since then!

        For the bearded-proletariat-types, who prefer to stay away from this “elite” sinful monetary metal called gold, I suggest to keep your “thrash-cash” in the banking system and suffer the “hidden fees”, “bail-ins” and “ravages of inflation”

        I am much happier and sleep much more soundly knowing they cannot print more gold into existence.

        Perhaps you neither sport a beard nor have your snout feasting in the tax-payer trough, but you represent the banking sector.

        Of course then it is absolutely essential that the people dont learn about the benefits of saving in gold as this would undermine their fractional-reserve-money creation trick.

        So anybody else who cares about their financial security I urge you learn as much as possible about how central banking works, how fractional reserve banking works and how inflation will destroy your savings.

        Get your money out of the system and into which ever hard asset you are most comfortable with.

        I know what I am doing, and I sleep very well.

    • joe hack

      Another cheap advertisement!

      You are not a neutral observer you are in the business pushing metal “we at gold core”-are Bias. Don’t pretend to give toss about ‘the social contract’ or society…

      • whatamess


        Heartily agree Joe that the way Stephen posted today was in poor taste …just a cheap advert stunt.

        {And you have to give your name and email address etc to access this must have info] Ugghhhh!

        I suppose that doesn’t in fairness make him a shnake in the grass ,with no social conscience tho,right?

      • Dear Joe,

        Are you a neutral observer, I think not! I have beliefs, and yes I biased. Everyone is the last time I checked. David is selling his educational services, his lectures, his books. I too make money when people take my advice. This does not then mean that I am dishonest, wrong or insensitive. It does not mean that I do not giver a “toss” about a social contract. What do you work at? What aspects of your life are relevant to the comments you make, do you disclose them, probably not.


        • Unwrap the report from Gold Core and provide open access to the report.

          • whatamess

            absofuckinlutely Tony!

            i don’t expect anything new tho…just more ‘dressing up the lady’is all

          • It is a compendium of what the informed already know but directed at the wider community.
            I tried the suggestion of a phoney email address and name and it worked!!! to get access.

        • joe hack

          Get a grip, with your look at me I care bullshit, you’re in the business selling and buying money, it serves only money, profit for profit sake, you are part of the reason we are in the mess we are in – Money changers pretending to be idealist while peddling fear!

          As for DMWs allowing people to advertise on his site, you will have to take that up with him. I suspect he might be happy to take a few nuggets of metal off you as payment. He might even advertise on your blog – Quid pro quo – assuming you have one, if not then you’re a freeloader, but yes he does advertise HIS work on HIS website, no pretence. I am not sure if his neck is as hard as yours or if his morality has been seared to the same degree as yours, that’s a debate you need to have with him.

          As for what I do! – You are the one advertising not me, and you are the one pretending your advertisement is something that befits all – A Pathetic Response – what I do and what want are not related as you point, but I am not advertising what do as a solution that would be dishonest. As far as I can recall DMW is not saying his teaching classes are a solution to the banking crisis, regardless he is advertising openly on HIS own site there does not appear to be hidden agenda on his part.

          There are some here that are living in a permanent state of fear thanks people like you. There might also be some old and unwitting people that you can you prey on or can peddle your fear to.

          You must have a seared morality or you read too much of your own bushtit, you prey on the fear of others, read your own words.
          “The research does state that a small modest allocation to investment gold can give a degree of protection in times of uncertainty” fear monger!

          Who gets to have your gold, does everyone!

          That’s all the attention I give your classless pathetic advert which sets out to peddle fear and adds nothing to society but fear.

          • Misguided rant Joe. The poorest are taking steps to protect themselves.
            The problems are rooted in the fiat money system and nothing to do with gold. Your thinking is irrational and perverted. Your anger clouds your mind.

            An honest money system is for a moral honest people.
            A fiat money system corrupts and then destroys the people.
            They become amoral and distraught and angry.
            We must revert to a moral money system or society collapses. Wars, plagues, pestilence descend.
            It has been recorded in history several times to be so.

          • I think you are being very harsh. Bail-ins are a real threat and people need to know what to do. I think you should look at the report before passing judgement as to its value.

            You do not know the first thing about my motivations, why I work, who I support. You seem to have made so many false assumptions and have a predilection to castigate anyone involved in Business as bogus and or suspicious. Almost everyone I know in business is honest and hard-working. I advocate a spread of assets to reduce risk. One is simply gold.

    • Dorothy Jones

      Using an open blog to advertise a financial business….classy

    • Thanks Stephen, I think 5Fingers is being a bit unfair. I’ve got some cash from hard work, good luck and inheritance. I’m not interested in being part of any 1%, they’d laugh at the sums, but the reality is I thought I was safe a decade ago but the build up to the crisis brought me to this blog to try to figure things out. I can’t see ‘pensions’ existing for much longer and the annuity crisis is a foretaste, as are rampant infaltion in essentials and deflation in nonsense, heating bills vs Netflix etc.

      However, what on earth makes anyone think they won’t go after everything, including gold, Bitcoin (yeah, right, they don’t have a back door key like wot they got with Social Media?) and land via insane property taxes.

      I don’t want a dogfood diet in my old age, but also don’t see the point of Goldbug Galt’s Gulch ‘privatisation’ of hope stuff as some estancian in the Argentine won’t help if antibiotics are unaffordable, unworkable. I think the solutions lie with the spiral tribe mind and re-thinking, re-engineering the Law of Incorporation and the basis upon which Money is created. Everything else just seems like grasping for crumbs from the table of the masters. Oh, and getting the Nation State to man-up, grow a pair, find a spine and actually run the place.


      [invisible online ink: Merry Christmas Enda! Lovely card, nice of you to find time to send a real one, not those silly online gee-gaws. Top man on the gay thing, and don't worry! We were only chatting in that hotel room! I know, loading Grindr onto your smart phone was a bit naughty, but I was only jestin, how did I know the NSA/GCHQ folk would spring it on you at those negotiations with the Troika? Jayzus, I'm sorry...but it's all good now, the Troika have gone, there's no record of us meeting, so just ignore the gossips and have a great Christmas.]

      • hey, haterz! calm down. Leave Stephen be. He doesn’t fill every thread with endless rants about Glass Seagulls or bizarre re-interpretations of Irish history.

        Gold is perfectly legal so long as you declare it and pay taxes on it. But don’t flaunt it at the lap-dance club instead of dollars, punts and pounds,doing that Premier League footballer bling rapper stuff paying for the Crystal with gold credit card like I did at Kilkenomics, desperately trying to impress,etc. All I got was *rollsyes* and *facepalms* from all the real celebs there.–Its-future-money-euro-goes-under.html

        Viva Valcambi! Santa, can you add some more of these to my list? Ta!

        • whatamess

          Glass Steagall is part one of a PLAN Andrew, to extradite us from this financial quagmire and BROKEN system of empire.

          Money tokens of ANY kind (inc Gold) wont set us ‘free’ and will nevvverrr give us a FUTURE. “As if an ECONOMY’S growth will ooze from the mere possession of such monetary tokens!”…what a ‘belief’ system!

          no empire = freedom

          Gold,bitcoins,silver,quarks,whatever, are maybe wise investments versus cash,but that’s it! and nothing more!

          I own a little gold and will continue to buy it. ALOT of people have no gold and little prospect of acquiring any,so talking gold silver etc,is a distraction to the macro


          • GS might have worked before Derivatives Casino, but the fact is that any attempt to stop the Investment overnight sweep of Retail Bank deposits would cause a crisis, surely?

            This crazy model carries on until the music stops, then it gets..interesting. Not just taking retail cash overnight, but taking it as bail-in tax. And when that doesn’t work..

            There’s no source of cheap reliabe energy on the horizon and whilst shale may provide Fortress America with another ‘morning in America’ interlude, it’s only for a few years, nothing has changed, there’s no real breakthroughs, though Graphene is interesting and will allow an infrastruture retrofit of bridges, etc, in a way I though was not likely.

            Propulsion to what? Without breaking out of the plantary dynamic and thwarting the 2nd Law, the only propulsion is in devouring the planetary capital in vanity projects. Civilisation = techno-fetishist epicFAIL!

          • bonbon

            Surely it is either flatten London/WallStreet with full undiluted Glass-Steagall or be simply routed, culled. It really is civilization versus genocide. Most avoid that poking around in their wallet for that coin, where could it have gotten to, that especially shiny one, ya know the lovely glint to it.

          • whatamess

            People are seeking financial protection, rightly so, and think that they are being well served by investing in gold, if only as a ‘put’ to debased fiat currencies , and yes, maybe wisely so.

            That being said, when i read and engage about SPECULATION /ACCUMULATION of gold ,diamonds,or stocks/shares or securities, i instantly feel like a greeeedy fraud !…just another member of the “piss on the fire, MY toast is done” club…. it actually makes me feel we are all being measured by the undertaker, before some fait accompli cataclysmic event.

            Gold will NOT end the suffering!

            that’s REAL

            that’s TRUTH

          • Implementing Glass Steagall will trigger the collapse you fear.

            it’s Catch 22, collapse is the only way that new vistas will emerge. I don’t want collapse but it appears inevitable. you present a techno-Cornucopian fantasy but don’t respond when I challenge it systematically. There’s no point building bridges to Siberia with dodgy money, socipathic Laws of Incorporation and an agenda of Carnism and Speciesism that will destroy every non-human habitat. This planet is NOT just for humans.

          • Ryu Hayabusa

            The Derivatives Investment casino is doomed to unravel under its own propulsion, don’t think it needs much help.

            It is amoral, insane and on a countdown timer!

            We need to go in a different direction.

          • whatamess


            Yes Andrew,GS will be that trigger,but that can happen in an ‘orderly’ fashion,with planning and anticipation.It can be intervene with a ‘designed’ demolition,and while the building comes down just as violently,at least we can evacuate the tenants and neighbours.They deserve PROTECTION

            A ‘disorderly’ domino effect crash,well thats just too awful to consider. ANYTHING but that,right?

            This system,as is,is coming to an end. QE simply hasn’t worked and now they know it can’t work.NOT without GROWTH at the same time! fact.QE was to deliver the very that’s the Catch 22 to watch…no wiggle room…boxed in!!!

            Orderly will be very ugly, but better the DEBT train is slowed down coz at it’s current size and speed,whatever it collides with,will be pulverised!

            I don’t ‘present’ that particular plan,but regardless, it’s a plan Andrew.You said yourself if we could sort the energy issue,that’d be huge progress for humanity!Let’s do that then on a MASSIVE scale?

            And i never remember you challenging me systematically??/i will have another look tho.I ain’t running away brother.

            This planet is NOT just for humans?Sure.But we humans are facing the cull this time or maybe extinction.I ain’t worryied for Flipper the dolphin,yunno.

          • whatamess

            an example of an ‘orderly’ approach


          • “Implementing Glass Steagall will trigger the collapse you fear.

            it’s Catch 22, collapse is the only way that new vistas will emerge.”

            Well done Andrew, succinctly said.
            Not wanted but unavoidable. All should take whatever steps they can to protect themselves.


          Good article Andrew. Good idea. Better yet in silver. a gram of silver will be the new dollar/euro/pound. Eventually as the new currency it will simply be a gram.
          How much is that chocky bar? three grams please, will that be silver cash or debit card. (debit card will be loaded with silver grams according to your bank deposited amounts.)

          I still remember the silver 3 pence piece, and the silver sixpence. we always had a silver sixpence hidden in the Christmas pudding. I do not remember the tradition re that!!No inflation in those days.

          • Moral outrage about gold and silver as last refuge of scoundrel rich is a bit silly. If I have hard metal under catastrophic circumstances I have localised power: to use or abuse, to become a gang-lord or to reign them in. It’s really odd how folk rail against the System yet recoil when anyone gets free of it to any slight degree. The other extreme of metals as passport out of consensual reality and the baffling complexity of society and politics is another fantasy: Hell is other People, living on an estancia in Chile means other people with health care, soap opera relationships and cultural mores. Unless anyone wants to go live on a glacier in the Himalayas. Oh, wait! They’re melting,allegedly Duh!

          • “It’s really odd how folk rail against the System yet recoil when anyone gets free of it to any slight degree”.

            Well said Andrew – that’s people who are all talk and no action.

            They are great for making plans and waffling but as soon as it’s time to get off their arses, excuses are made and they fall back in line with the status quo.

            This country is full of them.

        • 5Fingers

          I think Andy, the reason for derivatives and the ensuing casino needs to be properly understood in terms of the risks they support in the wider economy. I have seen very hard examples where without them, a lot of the advances we have today would not have been possible – the tech to support this blog being an example.

          The problem is how we manage such risk and how exposure to same has disproportionately hit the less well off. This is really what GS should be about. But implementing it assumes you can direct humanity to do the right thing …roll eyes… assuming that one can declare what that the “right thing” is to this massively diverse thing called humanity…you only need to tootle around Brum and its gritty past and now to see what a load of nonsense that might be. Indeed I claim that England is suffering from too much planning and self preserving quangoism to allow its creative self to reflourish.

          • 5Fingers, if a society decides to put the chips on the table and go for turbo-capitalism funded by speculative banking, that’s fine, so long as it’s informed consent. What I object to is the whole charade of ‘light-touch regulation’ covering up the reality of the poker game.

            Risk is very slippery as Taleb and “known unknowns” Rumsfeld teach us. I would very much like to see more risk, reward, failure, entrepreneurialism, death of rent-seeking, etc, but only if that’s what folk want.

            Politicians need to tell the truth, that South Korea, say, want our lifestyle and will work much, much harder to get it even if they destroy their children by cramming in the process. Then, a choice becomes possible for both these islands- what kind of society are we, what do we want to be?

            At Kilkenomics there was a muted undertone of ‘missed crisis, missed opportunities’, from Constantin thinking the EU would allow a flat tax (I think) to Fintan O’Toole blasting everyone away with a passionate defence of nation state intervention and managed economic social platforms. That’s exactly what needs to happen so people can make choices inbetween ordering pizza and watching X-factor.

            “Brum and its gritty past”

            On Tues night I sat in a pub in Gas Street Basin, Birmingham, looking out at The Cut, the canals that generations of Irish navvies carved out of The Shire. If Brum wasn’t full of arse-licking Norman sychophants, the Cut would be like Amsterdam with boats speeding up and down and ‘more miles than Venice’ giving birth to the true heritage of the industrial revolution, etc. But like anything else, like the docks in Dublin, that needs the vision thing and the “let’s do it!” thing, that extends beyond U2 Tower, but the money is ear-marked for debt repayment even until the 7th generation. It’s a lot easier to just get on a train to the City or fly to the IFSC and conjure up some new tax efficiencies.

            The Coalition here on this island claim they want to ‘rip it up and start again’, but that’s nonsense, they want to rip up the gains of the last 2 centuries and return the bulk of the population to neo-liberal debt servitude like the C18th.

            I struggle to accept any analysis that doesn’t put both FF & FG in the dock. The 1st Irish Republic was troubled from its’ birth pangs and it’s moral collapse was probably inevitable once Collins & Cosgrave’s heroic dream was usurped by Dev. But Haughey onward to Bertie, Biffo..FFS!

            I hope Enda is Machiavelli but that seems a bit of a stretch. LOL! He seems like a regional manager to me, looking to the next 5 year plan for the debt-service plan for the satrapy previously known as Ireland Inc: a name that was always, always an egregious insult to the past.

            I’m no longer even interested in debating with the ‘Irish’ elite. When I visit, I talk with taxi-drivers and other working people and they begin by being suspicious and assume I’m some kind of Saxon Foe hater, but a few hours later, they usually see that the map is not the territory, that the rebel songs are being traduced as tourist candy floss, and that the same City mentality that trashed one island is now being replicated on the other Isle of Wonder at the expense of the ordinary people of both who have more in common with each other than they do with the delusional historical privilege agendas of their masters in London, Dublin, Berlin, Brussels and Rome. Maybe the Jack Daniels and Cokes tonight have ramped up this rant, but i don’t think so. I’m sure it will read as completely coherent to me tomorrow.

            Osraige. Mercia. “shaking the habitual”

            Amhrán na bhFiann


      • Dear Andrew,
        Thank you for your post. Simply put, I do not have the answers to what would stop them coming after you. Buying gold is just a small way of spreading the money around. What is fascinating about gold is that it is no one else’s liability. It can sit in the corner of a room indefinitely and still remain valuable. Because it does not have a tenant paying rent or a CEO investing the capital for a return it is independent of everyone. Herein lies its real utility, and why it tends to have an inverse correlation to all other assets when the risk events occur. The future is uncertain and that why we have insurance and that’s the role gold attempts to fill, financial insurance. Usual caveats apply.


        • You’re welcome, bobon’s been trying to flog Larouche for years and David hasn’t banned him, so it would be a bit much if you got anything more than this spirited frothing feedback. LOL!

      • a new monetary system is required. The current one is run by the elite we should worry about (above the 1%)and designed to indebt and enslave. It is succeeding in this.
        A country with the people resolved can make the change. A leader will be picked off (assassinated) if not backed by the people. Change must come from below, not above.
        The only sound monetary system that has worked in the past is where people can choose (remove the legal tender laws). Bitcoin is an example but it will ultimately fail too unless a bitcoin can be backed by a tangible asset.
        The people who can develop a bitcoin backed by gold will have the untimate money system. Universal, and not regulated or controlled by a single authority and peer to peer developed. I have no clue on the technology of this but I can visualize the concept.

        Then there will be a world economy unfettered by government or state. Money will flow effortlessly as a medium of exchange to all people. The exchange of goods and services will be world wide. The state will be reduced to the provision of personal protection of predators, native or foreign and will eventually be largely redundant as all people mingle freely. Governance will be local only.

        In the meantime, back to the farm!, sailboat, chocolate almonds etc.

        • joe hack

          Enjoy your chocolate almonds while “The poorest are taking steps to protect themselves” taken steps to dig in dumps to feed themselves – how patetic and smug the elite are

        • bonbon

          Aha global government of the regions, and free-trade.

          This siren song has only one slight problem, the murder of 6 billion to make room for it, to music of course.

          Odysseus crew defeated Scylla only to be devoured by Charybdis. A warning from Homer, for those siren-deafened.

        • Tony Brogan: “there will be a world economy unfettered by government or state”

          Careful what you wish for, young Tony. In fact, ditch the sailboat and catch a plane to Mogadishu or the CAR if you want that. LOL!

          I’m all for giving feral corrupt states a kick in the bollocks (Osraige-Murcia Uprisings, etc) but do I want to live in a world where we revert to tribes, bloodline clans and internecine trading spats?

          No, if I did, I’d move to Scotland. 180!

          • An international currency, used and trusted world wide with no regulation by central banksters or government would be the casting off of the financials shackles currently enmeshing mankind.
            hardly a bank needed, no QE to infinity. no inflation. liberation of innovation and energy by many more to benefit the masses. A new level of living standard reached.


      • 5Fingers

        Andy when you talk like that, you are one of the elite. And you now want to hold on to your winnings. Only normal. The reason I am saying this to you , Stephen and so on is that the “REAL” elite think exactly the same way.

        Loosing X is far more painful than it is pleasurable to gain X. That’s proven psychologically. Hence all the frightened chatter. The reality is that there are the vast majority who have no X to loose.

        On the sociology and reinterpretations of history, I think the danger lies in how we colour reality by our own biases. Such facts are too open to interpretation…except for 2 things (IMHO)

        1) The vast majority are poor and do not give a shit really
        2) People will continue to surprise and overcome. We are bad at predicting.

        • 5Fingers, indeed I AM part of the elite: I have a flusing toilet, electricity, access to antibiotics and this internet thingy. Now, the internet can go so long as I have the others, a crime-free neighbourhood and radio. Everything else is just trinkets and baubles, all fun but hardly important. I don’t do status, don’t care about wealth, power, prestige, don’t compete with eejits, and have settled for a minimalist lifestyle. I’d rather read, observe nature and have time for family & friends that some mad gad-fly uber-life. I support progressive taxation, for instance: despite its’ flaws, I support the licence fee here for the BBC but it outrages me that the poorest person pays the same as the Queen. I also detest how the poorest pay the most in indirect taxation on essentials like food, transport and heating whilst the rich engineer ever more absurd ways of being parasitical on the host organism. Winnings? I own a modest house outright, but didn’t win it in a church raffle! Whilst peers were doing 5 holidays a year, we were living the quiet life, now some of them bemoan the fact they’ll never own a home, but not that they spent 5 years living the high life in NYC, etc.

          When the Celtic Corralito happens (in sync with the British one) then it will make sense to have some basic things in place whilst law and order is restored and a new regime is installed. I love watching Love/Hate but don’t want those guys running the local food distribution etc.

          Either the Euro is doomed or the Irish Nation State Project is. Thankfully it’s the former, not the latter. I’ll pay taxes to ensure the health and wealth of future generations, including but not only my own biological offspring, because that’s the only ‘pension’ that any sane person believes in. Hoarding money whilst supporting ‘republican’ parties that direct youth to drive buses in Malta is delusional and will beggar the wealth producing capacity of the nation. Actually, there’s an enormous amount of research to suggest that giving is more rewarding to the ego and organism than receiving and not just in the sex arena. At Kilkenomics, I saw a great show with Dan Ariely where he riffed on this. But I didn’t get to ask him why folk resent paying taxes if they generally get a buzz from sharing. I’ll do it now on Twitter but no the answer is about reciprocal altruism and freeloading, we covered it on this blog a while ago:

          @danariely If altruism gives us good endorphins-why do folk resent paying tax?Reciprocal altruism/freeloaders etc. @davidmcw

          Lulz! Next, I’ll annoy, confuse my favourite transgender economist:

          @DeirdreMcClosk Why didn’t compound status anxiety flourish in Paleolithic gift economy. No consumer fetishism / usury? @davidmcw


          So, yes, knowing that my insolent enquiries pop up on ‘serious people’s’ screens amuses me. I do want to hold on to internet access privilege, financial sobriety and stability, and the ability to visit my ancestral homeland whilst LOL’ing at Kilkenomics for a few years. But, honestly, I couldn’t care less about ending those things to do something really exciting like help build a new society. Surrendering my Intersectional Privilege to help the downtrodden is fine, doing so to bail out banksters and perpetuate Norman Coalition Bloodline Privilege -or the nascent D4 version if I move to Ireland? No, ain’t gona happen, I’ll just go rogue gangster with my old primary school mates and burn the place down. The place being Ballsbridge, not Finglas, note. The poor have a lot of problems, apathy included, but they pale in comparison to the awful mental and spritual crises of the super-rich. End Extreme Wealth as Andrew Carnegie said. That’s a useful motto, in my book. I’m wealthy both objectively and subjectively, but the latter’s more important. I could be happy in a hedge ditch in Attanagh if everyone let me forage and fish, etc. I’m not hoading anything other than good vibes and memories. And one privilege I’ve been delighted to ditch is being called “English” or “Irish”, born on a boat on the irish sea, etc. Regards.

          • 5Fingers

            Exactly. But if people want to blow it or keep it … they are rich relatively speaking. Idiots will always be with us.

            You know, I figure if you or I lost all our money/ assets I figure we’d be back rolling again quickly enough. And I do not need banks or money. I have knowledge and contacts. Now, if everyone had that attitude… I am actually afraid of someone making stupid rules more than stupid risks.

    • Amazing meltdown on this issue. I’ve downloaded Stephen’s report: why does anyone think that giving their email is a major issue when they ignore the NSA/GCHQ spies who track your ‘radical views’ here and pass them on to the Garda, D2 and Enda? Anonymity is over, has been for years, that’s why i’ve posted in my Legal Fiction name here since 2006. Next. Owning gold is morally neutral. Yes, the mining is abhorrent but so is the Bangladesh factory that makes your shirt, the Foxconn drone slave machine that makes your i-Device/laptop. Grow up. Here’s a thought experiment for some of ye to choke on:

      Suppose my wife kicks me to the kerb and I decide to re-invent myself and move to Finglas to live with an old mate who’s a doorman on a Dublin hotel. Then there’s bail-in meltdown and Celtic Corralito and the Love/Hate types take over from the Corporation and Garda in running ‘essential services’. Now, I have some gold so can organise a resistance to feral ganglords by buying in some muscle so political praxis can take form : am I acting as part of the elite?

      If I choose not to consume, live modestly and prefer time to status and ostentatious bling : am I ‘letting the economy down’ and not being a ‘hard-working citizen who plays by the rules and gets raped for taxes’? What about the consumption, property and investment taxes?

      Andrew Carnegie said “he who dies rich dies disgraced” but not everyone needs to spend their entire life to reach the conclusion that we need to “End Extreme Wealth”. I’ve made money, lost it, given it away, don’t care if I’m poor so long as essential needs are met. And I don’t mean a Man U season ticket when I say ‘essential’. The fact that lads I know are slaves to male bonding team sports and subscription channels means they can’t save. If you tell them they don’t need 3 holidays a year they think you’re a mad hippy. Not everyone who makes money show it off, not everyone who has resources identifies with or aspires to be part of the ‘elite’. And it’s a bit much to be labelled as such by supposedly intelligent people.

      I have no problem with capitalism, with people making huge sums of money so long as they live within the law. However, I have problems with the law, specifically the laws governing the forming of Corporations, the laws concerning their tax responsibilites, and the laws governing the creation and distribution of bank credit. It’s hilarious to read that I’m part of the ‘elite’. Mind you I did have a chinwag with Bill Bonner at Kikenomics. He was dressed in supermarket sports / leisure wear and didn’t make any efforts whatsoever to pose like a rich blingster Capitalist, which I thought was a bit rude given that David did the sunglasses, Armani and limousine stuff so well.

      I’m not part of any elite, I’ve been a political prisoner/prisoner of conscience of them for over a decade whilst plotting their downfall. My job is to generate the memes that make extreme wealth completely unfashionable. So, y’know, careful with that axe, Eugene, it might swing back and chop yer class war head off. Mind you, class war can be fun, but I hate to see nice cars scratched as it might be someone’s last spree before succumbing to cancer, etc. Getting hateful and angry about other’s status anxiety illness and beta-chimp terrirtorial pissings is a waste of energy. I’m not impressed by Loadsamoney flaunt-it types and they usually realise pretty quickly that they are going to have to say or be something other than financially rich to impress me.

      My idea of Hell is Galt’s Gulch types in some valley in Peru watching the world explode whilst they count bars of gold. I have 5 years living expenses in cash, that’s the most I allow myself to keep as a buffer, any excess that comes my way-the rest is given away each and every year. Srsly. I’ve been on strike against the UK government, but that’s coming to an end as victory celebrations conclude, so vast sums will probably manifest over the next few decades.

      A vow of Poverty and Simplicity (well, compared to Elton and Kanye!) It keeps me on my toes in an endless process of Creative Destruction that is life itself, as my very first post on this site explained. I don’t do retirement. Artists never retire. They create until they die. “It’s a wonderful life”. And the only safety ‘going forward’ is tribal, social, not the ‘privatisation of hope’ and guns and baked beans in the shed. OR I could be making all this up. As the tax office. Or GCHQ, the know the truth. Or do they? LOLOLOLOLOL!

      Pink Floyd – Careful with that axe Eugene

  3. 5Fingers

    Sound article.

    So, depositors may have something to worry about and by the way, we need to be aware that there are non-income earners who are in retirement age and have negligible to zero deposits who are the vast majority of this aged group – these people (the majority in this age group) really do not care.

    Perhaps the biggest impact of a bail-in is the detrimental effect it could have if working capital (cash part of savings by a business) is ceased is instead of being allowed to be used for day to day business operations. Indeed, it makes little of no sense that Banks working capital should be augmented by business version of same on some daft pretext that banks make an economy.

    But aside from bail-ins and outs and so on, I am interested in the article’s hints of the resilience in business. There is a recovery that is not understood – certainly not by economics mode of thinking. My guess is that the coming mess is now priced in both by the market and psychologically and that quite a few surprises are in store.

    • bonbon

      You don’t get it. the bail-in from “creditors” is the bail-in from taxpayers, the very same people! Surely you notice that “creditors” is the new name for depositors?

      Now what was that about business and resilience again?

    • What sort of surprises Philip?

      • 5Fingers

        I think it is positive. But I have no real idea how it is forming. There are new kids on the block changing the rules and in spite of all the hype business are not as well run or taking advantages of new ideas (I mean 20-30 year old ideas) as well as they should be. We are entering a new iteration of improvement due to

        1) Better understanding of logistics and leveraging of contract manufacturing – infrastructure is now getting very smooth and people are becoming more informed.
        2) Better understanding of project coordination from prototyping to deployment and ongoing support and maintenance and contracting of latter in a more streamlned manner
        3) Economies of scale are now being reached more rapidly down to near unity level allowing customisation at a level never seen before. AND we know where that is going…FB, Twitter, 3D Printing etc…is but the tip of the iceberg
        4) We are going smart grid. The energy density of the battery is now approaching gasoline.

        It is all iterative and no one will really notice anything. Visit the outskirts of Mumbai…a myriad of tiny operations. That’s where the real gold is.

        • whatamess

          Surely,we had our collective fill of iteration? …and a round and round we go …Uggghhh

          the functions and models of QE haven’t worked 5Fingers!? simple as!

          And it’s that very ‘sight’ for 60 secs at 200mph, just before landing at Mumbai,is exactly what empire wants!!!

          Again,a blight to bind us ,to a rigged, corrupt,EVIL, controlling system!!!!!!!

  4. joe hack

    Ireland the state, is not looking after the interests of its people, it marches to the tune of the pied piper of globalising and is excellent at keeping in step.

    What makes it even worse; we have the weakest government that we have ever had in office which has lasted as long as this one.

    This government has not been raised by mammy to protest, to say NO and still make friends.
    This is in part, is a reflection of the people themselves the modern nurture of compliance, weak leadership from all including that of mammy and daddy.

    Just Say No…

  5. Grey Fox

    Spot on David, all hail Mario “Flash Gordon” Draghi, saviour of the universe, (were do I get some of ‘dem der guaranteed money, bond yokie’s)

  6. joe hack

    IOUs = UOIs:

    ‘U’- the people of Ireland ‘goody two shoes’ ‘O’- owe ‘I’- the so called ‘elite’ who are laughing all the way to ‘U’ your bank – ha ha ha

    Thank ‘U’ very much

    ha ha ha “IDIOTS”

    • That is our current money system
      Every note is an IOU.
      Each Euro, dollar is loaned into existence.
      A system to enslave all
      We are forced to use IOU’s as money.
      That is why the banksters laugh.

      Wipe the smirk off their face and get out of the system.

      • bonbon

        Run from the system? Hardly a good tactic.
        Much better to wash and spin-dry the system with Glass-Steagall. The spectacle of running Tigers is comic.

        • You may think it comic
          If all people abandoned the banks, the banks would wither and die.
          Credit unions and the post office perform the basic functions need.
          Removal of all assets from the banking system is ones only protection.

  7. Nice sensible article from David, now everyones got The Christmas raving office party stuff out the way on the last thread. So, where are we? Where have we been since this began? Bertie & Biffo: “we are where we are!”. Anger is an energy? “Anger is not a policy” says the ghost of Linehan [RIP]. Then, everyone got really pissed, had a few marches, elected Fine Gael – who promptly abandoned the whole grown-ups running the Sovereign country stuff & handed it over to the ‘experts’. Just like they were still handing in homework to Christian Brothers, hoping buggery wasn’t a punishment option for spelling mistakes. Thought experiment: If they needed The Troika for help “getting us out of the difficulties we were in”, on what basis is there confidence that they won’t cause another crisis once the “new era, historic day, jayzus aren’t we grand?” stuff bites the dust? Have they passed a Troika Driving Test?

    “Mr Noonan became almost nostalgic at the prospect of the departure of the bailout team as he said the Government side built up good relationships.”And they kind of became honorary Irish people after a while and they were very committed to getting us out of the difficulties we were in,” he said.”

    One can only imagine Vincent Browne’s reaction were he to hear such talk in any KIlkenny hostelry. In fact, here it is: Vincent Browne ” There’s No Sense In Which People Are Sovereign”

    Dr Julien Mercille “The Role of The Media in the European Economic Crisis: The Case of Ireland.’” “Ireland’s 120pc debt-to-GDP ratio, the multi-billion euro annual interest payments on our national debt and our very limited potential for economic growth for a few years to come, I think we have ended up as the laboratory rats in the eurozone’s financial experiment. ”

    Of course, the ultimate irony of the failed-state experiment of the First Irish Republic would be to have confiscation and ‘bail-in’ and ‘capital levy’ in time for the centenary. The cognitive dissonance involved in celebrating escape from one pernicious foreign power whilst simultaneously robbing the populace to appease another vampiric alien power would be awesomely out-there, but entirely what I’d expect of the FF-FG clusterfcuk. If SF are involved, the contortions and convoluted reasoning required to remain in coalition would be mind-blowing, but given some of their statements on other topics, I’m sure they’d find a way to square some circles as well.

    For geo-strategic political reasons Ireland Inc was always going to get away with a few whacks rather than full-on sadism, even though it must feel like a bad prison nightmare for some trapped in Boom-Bust estates with kids leaving and all the rest of the sad stuff. The IFSC (therefore Ireland Inc) is to be protected until the Euro Project resolves itself one way or another, either with the merging of ‘Ireland’ into Europa with a shared fiscal/political/cultural reality or the implosion of the currency, a dramatic Celtic Corralito and then, a very angry Republican movement that looks clearly and calmly at the nonsenses of the first Irish Republic’s Stockholm Syndrome behaviour, from fluffing Rome to being felched by The Troika. The Gaels were the bravest in challenging the Norman hegemony, it’s very sad that one ruling clique was replaced by another seeking to set up Bloodline Family Property Privilege, which is what’s happening with Dublin enclave house-prices, employment internship nepotism and ‘volunteer lifestyle emigration’ to drive a bus in Malta or whatever the latest wheeze is.

    People here act up with me when I say ” Don’t call me English!”, but when I say “Don’t call me Irish, plastic or otherwise” on the other island, the reaction is from incredulity to hysteria that anyone would dare openly challenge the shibboleths, nostrums and arrant nonsenses of FF/FG: but someone’s got to do it. Someone’s got to lance the boil. Enda flipped the bird to the Vatican: 10 points. Gay marriage: 10 points. Escaping the Troika: 100 points IF there’s some credible plan and the absence of the security net of a further loan is rational rather than rash. I don’t know yet. I don’t have the data they do. But what I do know is that Mr Noonan has some serious identity issues and really, really could benefit from starting from scratch with the whole elected politician responsibilities to Sovereign Nation stuff before he next hands a bouquet to the wonderful, lovely, helpful Troika apparatchiks as they walk backwards out of his room in shock as his craven fawning.

    “Mr Noonan became almost nostalgic at the prospect of the departure of the bailout team as he said the Government side built up good relationships.”And they kind of became honorary Irish people after a while and they were very committed to getting us out of the difficulties we were in,” he said.”
    FFS! Srsly! Get a grip or don’t ever sing it again. Wait! That rumour’s just a rumour, surely? They didn’t..tell me it’s not true..that’s a terrible meme to put out there, that they allowed The Troika to do it karaoke-style at their leaving bash?..! Let’s hope and pray that never happened and will never happen no matter what the future holds. Merry Christmas Ireland:
    Amhrán na bhFiann

    ps: For the Second Irish Republic, the lyrics have to be changed to reflect historical reality and the sacrifice of the Mericans. “remember, remember, 21st November 1974. Birmingham: so much to answer for” Ta!

    “Out yonder waits the Norman foe, so chant a soldier’s song”

    • cooldude

      Very interesting as usual Andrew. The Noonan about turn after the election is very interesting and informative. He went through the election with his “not one red cent” mantra in relation to paying the unsecured bondholders. He kept this stance up for a while after the election and then whoomph a complete and total about turn which was like he was actually a different person. Suddenly it was “our debt” and we had “all partied” and we had some obligation to pay these unsecured gamblers. His motive behind this about turn was to become part of the elite inner group himself. It is no coincidence that he was the only Irish politician invited to the Bilderburg meeting in England this summer where he discussed our future with all the other elite insiders. I’m sure he was well rewarded for his changeover but it is now quite clear he no longer represents the interests of the Irish people but does represent the interests of the ECB and the large commercial banks.

      The strange thing about this great “victory” that Ireland was supposed to have achieved is that it sees us back borrowing off the same unsecured banks who were paid in full for their reckless gambling. It’s no wonder we have no problem selling bonds to these gangsters because these guys know that they will be paid in full no matter how much hardship or robbery of deposits which has to be done to ensure this. Our sovereignty is now simply a myth of times past if it ever really existed. We are now owned by the ECB bankers and beaurocrats with their debt collectors who are our politicians. And the Ukraine wants to join this nonsense. Or do they?

      • bonbon

        The EU one way or the other will return west with its Grande Armee. The Anglo-Dutch are trying to open an Eastern Front yet again, and some totally idiotic have got drawn into it, again. Russia has not forgotten the Emperor, Hegel’s world spirit.

        Frogmarch the remnants of the Grande Armee through Cyprus on the way to a prison island.

  8. No turkey for Christmas, just grilled pigeon. Middle class meltdown under Troika Austerity, relief in sight? Or headlights?

  9. [...] spite of, and not because of, the blundering ineptitude of this government and the one before it. Bailout Exit. If goody goody Ireland is the model student, how come bad boy Greece is the star perfo… On paper the country is as bad and worse off than its ever been. Sign in or Register [...]

  10. Dorothy Jones

    New York Times (front page of business) on Irish recovery :

    Hardships Linger for a Mending Ireland

  11. Adelaide

    What Recovery?
    Today’s Headline
    “Irish industrial output fell 11.6% in October”
    “On an annual basis, industrial output here has fallen 7.5% since October 2012.”

    When is Enda giving his State of Nation address??? I glimpsed a headline somewhere “Enda National Broadcast Speech on Exit” or thereabouts.

    • joe hack

      Yes, I read this early today – if unemployment is falling and production is slowing – the answer appears to be that the work load of the employed is diluted and wages are too as a result.

      Two arguments then must follow; is this good or bad? It is good as more people are actively employed; it is bad that wages are falling.
      When you take a world view the EU is relatively rich, while others go hungry I believe a balance is happening and I would like to think it was intended i.e. the hungry might get fed at our expense?

      • No the intention is the lowest common denominator Joe. We all go hungry.
        Feeding someone at one own expense is noble, if voluntary, but a temporary solution. Feeding someone at anothers’ expense is coercive and destructive. They must be taught how they can feed themselves.

        • bonbon

          Yes, those few scraggy survivors, taught by the well fed.

          Since 1900 western farmers, 2%, feed 98%. That is what food is all about, a thriving agroindustrial economy and a true green revolution aimed for 25 billion people at least, soon.

          Hayek’s road to the abatoir is hardly palatable.

          • 25 billion people will mean no other habitat or species other than the concentration camp victims of industrial Carnism from Biblical Dominion and hegemonic neoliberal food economics.

            Other beings are sentient: the abbatoir you describe is what provides Big Fast Food:

            Meat is Murder, Beef is Biocide, Steak is Cardiac Suicide.

            Shelve your techno-Cornucopian fantasies and have a look again at the true state of the planet. You are not the apex predator: the microbes and viruses are and they are in the petri dish of Slum Planet planning a cull. Economics and Science will not trump Biology: prepare for the next Black Death when you exterminate the Bonobo, erase the Congo rainforest and unleash Ebola’s version of HIV through bushmeat sold in London and Dublin street markets. Or BSE, or swine flu, and on and on and on the delusion continues:

            Adam Byrne’s mt8 Dave shared the following on Social Media, it shows the reality of the fantasy Larouche techno-Cornucopian dystopia of 25 billion that you and bonbon arouse yourselves with.

            I spent some months doing conflict resolution and negotiation over the badger cull in Gloucestershire. I’ve been accused of being an ‘animal terrorist’ in the past, but that was just an inept attempt by MI5 to fit me up/shut me up: didn’t work. I don’t have to order a fatwa to erase the bulk of the world’s population because it’s clear to me that the microbes and viruses are the 4 horsemen in disguise.

            We build to WW1, to my memorial video of lilies and poppies, with images of the next flu pandemic decimating Birmingham and Dublin. Nature bats last, not neoliberal economists or techno-Cornucopian fantasists.

            Now! Off out for a night of mayhem in West Brom, someone’s 50th birthday and another chapter in The Christmas. In the Wetherspoons pub (coming your way) some of the folk are so elite they’ll be hoping Santa leaves a food parcel for the kids under the tree. Of course, they shouldn’t go out to pubs to mourn the deindustrialisation of Irish Mercia, but stay at home watching X-Factor and envying the lives of the rich. Somehow I cannot see how exactly the same narrative wouldn’t unfold under Larouchian mega-tech 25billion economic nirvana.

          • Forgot DC’s link to a vision of bonbon & whatamess’s Nirvana of Carnism and Technology:


          • whatamess

            Sounds like you’re just another limits to growth proponent Andrew???

            “There are no limits to growth, only Easter island inward looking belief systems”

            When you decide to choose the ad-hominem argument with your Larouche ‘digs’ (nothing new here btw),we all easily identify that poker ‘tell’…we don’t need to be Sicilian! And then your “techno-Cornucopian” pantomime ,the labelling and pigeon-holing of people’s ideas,is again super counter productive and demonstrates,to me anyway, a knee jerk resistance to CHANGE,or is it that you feel defeated,powerless.You couldn’t be blamed for that!

            So to hell with the FUTURE Andrew eh,coz the Ebola virus may get us in the end anyway,so why even bother!?Fabulous!What powerful insight!

            On a long enough timeline ,25 billion is very possible,unless of course there is a cull OR alternatively,a quantum leap from the hole in which humanity now finds itself..

            The CHOICE is ours!!!!!!

            What’s it gonnnna be Andrew?What’s it gonna be ,coz people’s lives are in the balance and URGENT action is needed!!

          • whatamess

            you haven’t answered any of the issues I raise about Carnism, Speciesism, 2nd Law of Thermodynamics on a closed planet, etc. You also have a clear humancentric agenda which regards the entire planet as subservient to your colonialist agenda: colonialism against every other species.

        • joe hack

          Tony, you are showing your true colour – the Chinese should be the elites slave (Tony’s slave) and a staving child needs to be taught a lessons.

          “The poorest are taking steps to protect themselves” – buying gold I assume you mean – what was the level of poorest of poor that you were referring to, was it those that need to be taught lesson or those that can afford you metal.

          You sound like the fat cats we had during the Irish famine and those in early 20th century.
          You cruel and your living Isolated fat cat Walter Mitty world

    • Adelaide

      Sunday 9.30pm RTE1. Yep, it’s a televised address to the NATION on the day we exit the bla bla bla. Heady stuff indeed.

      Predictions on a postcard of what he’ll spin to DA PEEPLE.
      Ah, who cares! What a joke! It’s pantomime season.

      • Adelaide

        Like you said yourself 5Fingers in a previous thread all these Headlines change daily like the weather, what’s amusing is to see contradictory headlines on the same splash, RTE’s website Business page seems to have a particular knack for it. The economy is both recovering and plummeting at the same time!

        Just to add I agree with your earlier point that the public’s general apathy is mainly because the majority are simply too poor to have a stake and thus a concern in the outcome. I travel the country a lot and beyond a few urban clusters which happens to be where the mainstream media folk never stray from, this country is shockingly poor, I correct myself, this country is rich, but rather the people outside these clusters are shockingly poor. What to them that the Euro collapses or there are bail-ins? Honestly, they’re already rock bottom.
        It’s starting to unnerve because the sense I get lately reminds me of the sense I had when I worked in Shenzhen, China in the late 90′s, which was a horrid experience, there, the oppressive air of despondency and, I suppose, a sense of cheapness about everything, and ultimately, the cheapness of life itself. I once witnessed the aftermath of a fatal traffic accident where the corpses were swept off the road into a side ditch and the traffic waved on. Like rubbish. A nuisance.
        And yet something similar but to a lesser degree happened the other day, my friends and I saw a cyclist clipped by a speeding car on Gardner Street Saturday afternoon, the car did not stop, and as the cyclist gingerly got to his feet in the middle of the two-three lane with the damaged bike resting a few feet away, unbelievably, the oncoming traffic angrily beeped at him and with much shouting sped round him and round his bike and kept this up till we helped him to the pavement, we berated the drivers but they glared at the cyclist, perhaps because he was a long haired heavy metal type of chap he deserved their scorn, and to finally add insult we waved down a passing garda car which then accelerated so quickly into the further lane and blanked us so fast we couldn’t see their reg number. We brought him to a nearby bike shop and paid for his bike to be fixed and my friend followed him up later and he was ok. There was no doubt among us, the cyclist was a nuisance to the repellent drivers and gardai. We asked ourselves, were the cyclist unconscious, how many cars would have driven pass, dead for all they cared, with their booths full of christmas shopping, before one stopped to assist?

      • 5Fingers

        I hate this site….very fiddly

      • Adelaide

        Anyone interested, perhaps interested is not the word, in how the creeping general acceptance and its ultimate state-sanction official policy of lives becoming cheap in a deteriorating economy should read “Stunted Lives, Stagnant Economies”, an examination of Argentina’s descent to a third world country and its debilitating erosion of all aspects of citizen’s lives.
        Accounting for the time-lag the parallels with Ireland are scary.

  12. bonbon

    DMcW has finally smelt the coffee or rather the sewer of the mudflaps planning to save their rotting swamp called a banking system. To prepare the landlubbers for this mudbath both Germany’s Focus and DLR (national radio) let it all hang out yesterday – “explaining the grab cascade”, and warning of plain seizure.
    It is not just Ireland but the entire EU, and the USA, that is about to be robbed and given the Detroit treatment. The rancid sophistry of “saving the taxpayer by slashing the creditor” – depositors are now called creditors! And never forget Enda presided over the Cyprus “test run”. And I thought the smell was the Liffey.

    Glass-Steagall means a safe barrier from that suppurating cesspit – we can watch evolution, slowly, perhaps.

    DMcW better drop inuendo. The robbed are in no humor for sophistry.

    • bonbon

      Focus quotes Romain Hatchuel, co-director of the globally active U.S. property management firm Square Advisors, as saying: “The budgets in the U.S.A., Europe and Japan soon will be dealt a fiscal shock, worse than any stock market crash.” Hatchuel further: the state debt is so catastrophic that “the traditional methods of taxation no longer suffice,” that is why “weapons of mass extinction for deposits, just like that IMF mandatory tax, are becoming more likely every day.”

      DLR interviews MEP Wolf Klinz, with the lead that EU1.615 trillion European taxpayers have so far paid out for the bail outs: He says first of all, that in order to avoid a new lawsuit at the German Constitutional Court, the German government has agreed to an all-EU bank resolution agency in which the respective national resolution agencies are all seated, and their decisions are then approved by the EU Commission or the Council of the Governments and Heads of State.

  13. Paul Divers

    You do us a service by highlighting the media machine losing it’s mind and having convulsions over made up hope. It’s designed to make Ireland look good in the eyes of investors looking for cheap labour but the place is as rotten as ever and more corrupt than we imagined after reading about the CRC. is open for business and we are all up for sale. Hip hip. Let us whore ourselves out to the next highest bidder. If we are good we might even get a living wage.

    Any switched on person living in the real Ireland whether it be Leitrim, Sligo or wherever will tell you this country is incurable but they accept it … ‘sure there’s more to life than complaining’.

    The ultimate defeatist attude which allows corruption, inequality and exclusion to run riot. They have not managed to yet find a way to ban moaning thank god. If they could they would and if they could they would find a way to tax the air we breathe

    Still making apoligies for the past which turned out to be the ultimate lie and the cruelest joke of all. There’s a good man, run along now.

    We hear about corruption, incompetence, bullying and intransigence at County Council level and in the health services. Authoritarian privately controlled regimes reminiscent of soviet Russia.

    Irish management can’t be trusted because gombeenism is in their genes. You can even smell it when you walk through the big bad door

    As soon as authority is questioned it turns against you and will crush your spirit in a second so thanks very much to Deco for educating us on the finer aspect of the ‘Irish Concept of Management’

    It was a good training ground.

    Like I said. Fuck em.

    • bonbon

      And salute the Troika? The Emperor, the world spirit? Just watch Ukraine (not near Sligo or Leitrim).

    • 5Fingers

      It is the same in every country, not just Ireland. It is an ethical nightmare that can only be resolved by ensuring those who make decisions take the same hit as those affected by those decisions. Now, legalising for same has limited effect and in Irelan many know this all too well.

      Yes, Ireland may be a good training ground. Boot camp for business? Maybe you do not need an MBA if your from Ireland. Looking at the what I believe is a disproportionate number of Paddies at high level in a lot of corps, I could be onto something.

  14. 5Fingers

    “That all these potentially fatal attributes couldn’t kill local business stone dead is testament to the achievement of thousands of small Irish businesses who have managed to stay open in the past few years.” looks like things are still ramping. Have a look are similar stats around the world…same upwards trend. I cannot explain it. No one is predicting it. But I can attest in business I am in – Hi Tech/ Telecoms/ IT, it is all upside – no hype. Oil and general energy demand is climbing. Dublin and other population centers are ramping. Not so for rural – but yields are much better this year for farming.

    There is still a lot of poverty out there. And CSO still tells a grim story. But the fact is that it was always grim…it is not a massive reversal we were all led to expect. I think it proves that banks/ money is not that important in the scheme of things.

    • It is still important when you do not get any. Bailout funds go to the financiers and then the crony capitalist. Person on the street sees little to nothing, but they do see and feel the result of monetary inflation in the depreciated value of their earnings which buy less and less.
      I would argue the poverty is increased by this money. Poverty levels are not even static.

      That is why I argue for a different currency. A return to the one standard proven time and again. I’ll not bore you further with the details yet again.

      I never believed “what we were all lead to believe” but we have what I expected and what was expected by all those I consulted. They gave the reasons why.

      Simply: A credit induced boom will result in a bust. We use credit based money. The money we use is so, so important. Not just any old money will do the job. Only Sound money works for us. The debt based credit money we use works only for banks and their friends.

  15. bonbon

    Have I deja-vu or something? Posted already here.
    A quick check :
    Goldcore Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Please note however the provision of precious metal product or service does not require licensing, authorisation, or registration with the Irish Central Bank and, as a result, it is not covered by the Irish Central Bank’s requirements designed to protect consumers or by a statutory compensation scheme. GoldCore Limited trading as GoldCore is registered in the Companies Registration Office under Company number 377252. Registered for VAT under number 6397252A. © 2013
    Further :
    which links to :

    So we have simply an Austrian School metal outlet. FDR’s method of Glass-Steagall and the New Deal, now urgently needed, does give them an itch, what?

  16. Harper66

    Excellent article.

    An equally sobering view in the FT –

    “Irish pace of reform blamed on cronyism

    It has survived occupation, wars and famine during its near 500-year existence under the motto Nolumus Mutari, “We shall not be changed”. Now, the Honorable Society of King’s Inns, which controls barristers’ entry into the Irish legal system, has seen off the EU and International Monetary Fund.

    The delayed legal reform is but one example, according to critics, of how the structural and political changes promised by the Fine Gael-Labour coalition that has guided Ireland through the crisis have not been delivered. Vested interests continue to wield too much influence over politicians, they complain, setting up Dublin for a return to the “boom bust” culture that fuelled the crisis after the EU and IMF depart.

    There is no difference between FF and FG. The last election was merely a passing on of the baton.

    • Grey Fox

      Rest assured the “Fee Fest” continues down at the Four Courts unabated, they make it on the way up and on the way down, fairness and equity are the last things on their minds.

  17. Stephen came in here and made a reasonable and short post about his take on economics and his business and certain people were up in arms.

    He didn’t overdo it with his sales pitch and it was obvious (if you read it) that it wasn’t just a copy and paste job – plus he responded to any comments made with courteousness.

    So what if he has a business interest? There are plenty who do – what’s wrong with sharing your link once in a while as long as you aren’t spamming people?

    In case you hadn’t noticed folks, this is a free speech forum and David doesn’t censor. I guess he would if there was something overtly racist or slanderous but I haven’t seen that in five years on here, although some people have come close (I’m not mentioning any names).

    However, there are plenty of headbangers on here, talking nonsense for months on end – banging on about Glass Steagall and gold and bitcoin (!) and whatever the hell else.

    But as soon as someone swaggers into the saloon with a slightly different tack then he’s railed against.

    I blame it on the Luddites again, they are afraid of new ideas and participants – resistance to change and all that.

    There is an ELITE developing in here, that’s where the ELITE is – legends in their own lunchtimes, that’s what they are.

    Live and let live folks.

    • whatamess


      My motivation for banging on about Glass Steagall,is above all that the people are protected and people’s exposure to risk is mitigated,as much as possible.

      GS is actually about freedom and opposing a system of empire.
      That’s a damn good reason for supporting GS.

      [ and yes i do accept it must be 'tiresome' to hear GS ad nauseum , but we are NOW at that critical mass stage ,,, surely if one sees an alternative to the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse scenario,that's reason enough to speak up? ]

    • 5Fingers

      I am sorry if Stephen is offended in any way. And I mean that.

      But on the bright side, it should make his service offering more robust because he can further develop better framed responses for his prospects based on experiences here AND…he got noticed!!! Clearly Ada, I need to teach you a bit more about this social networking stuff.

      Luddite indeed.

    • joe hack

      His a fake, his words don’t his so called service and your as blind as bat, nieve in the extreme if you can’t see it. Profit at any body expense he sells fear. No different to the pay day loan people.

    • bonbon

      Goldcore came here to lambaste the single and only way to deal with this crisis – FDR’s method. Above I give details, is is nothing other than yet another goldbug – the darned place is infested. Who mentioned DDT?

      Odd that no one does any homework anymore when the salesman turns up at the door and knocks twice? Have anti-Tiger’s learnt anything?

  18. redriversix

    While I was reading Davids article on my HP Laptop ,I was thinking about this possible over exposure of Brands on this I light a Silk Cut Blue,I contemplate this predicament whilst enjoying a refreshing cup of Lyons Tea with some avonmore milk..I am sure Gold is a good buy,maybe silver or bitcoin ? but how about lockheed Martin ? excellent products,growing demand.captive consumer base…?

    I was reflecting on the State of our Economy [ presuming we have one ] whilst returning home in my Volvo and while refueling with Texaco fuels which is a excellent fairtrade product I realized what good value the Centra shop is on the Forecourt of our superb Texaco on Newtownpark Avenue in South County Dublin which is also a excellent part of the City to do business in..falling unemployment here,house prices rising..excellent young educated folks around here,Low crime rate..excellent Schools..wonderful dress wont mistake this part of town with a Olympic Village…..

    Anywho..gotta go and figure what to wear tomorrow night..been invited to a Party celebrating some Government achievement…..directions are scarce told to look for a Government building off Merrion Square with Balloons tied to the Door…?

    Better not stay out too late …Funeral on Saturday..another suicide related to stress of debt……..probably just “collateral damage”…?

    The price we have to pay for turning the corner….

    some people tut tut !!!

    Mission Accomplished

    • Careful———you’ll be branded elite!

      • Take care.
        Best respects Austin

      • My computer pad flips the curser back and forth
        Please ignore the above Barry

        instead please offer my condolences to the bereaved.

        best regards.

      • whatamess

        Tony ive an image of you out on your boat sailing next to those magnificent creatures

        that might not make you elite

        but you’re easily in the top 1% of people who get to that regularly


        • Nice mage but you have to live next to the water. Most do not.
          Hundreds around here live on anchored boats as they can afford nowhere else to live.
          good views through the porthole though.

          currently I am in a trailer here with sheets on the windows keeping out the cold. Wealth is relative. I eat well and exercise well.

          Half a million dollars around here buys an older house or a small townhouse. Even I of the “elite” stay out of that market.

          I have mostly been in the 1% of things I involved myself with. If briefly. Notable exception is in the academic area where I was above average but unnoticed. That probably explains why I argue with the academics’ points of view as mostly being baseless. Reverse snobbery!! I jest. Poking fun at myself. an endearing Celtic trait used against them by the Anglo-Norman-Saxon foe who hesitate not to poke spiteful derisive fun at the adversary.

          Blessings to All

        • whatamess

          rocked to sleep by the water

          that sounds fantastic

    • Grey Fox

      Thanks RR6
      and let me start by saying R.I.P PAUl.
      PTSB – you are guilty of manslaughter at least!
      Same goes for any idiot who puts their name to a threatening letter from a Bank, its not just your job, that cop out doesn’t work anymore, too many lives are being wasted!
      As for this thread…it started off well but as usual went down hill rapidly, back biting and sniping is the order of the day while the real Elite, gufaw gufaw gufaw at the confusion and division they manage to continually perpetrate to mask their crimes.
      I care less about the Glass Steagalians or the Gold Gang they are all have merit and at least I have the option of tuning in or tuning out which is not the case with the constant continuous bombardment of lies, spin and deceit we are subjected to from any and all media outlets for the past 5 years, every single public representative currently sitting should hang there heads in shame, they have failed miserably just like the Banks.
      Hope for the future in Ireland!
      I have to honestly say, at this moment in time I am devoid of any such aspirations.
      The level of denial and disinterest right now in Ireland absolutely astounds me!
      There is only one way to deal with Banks and complicit Politicians and that is to disengage totally, starve them out, no money and no support, that is my only aspiration today but one I understand I will most likely never see.
      All other solutions to Banks are doomed to fail, we must simply destroy them as they present right now or they will surely destroy us, in their own words “on a case by case basis”.
      I have to go and dig out my black tie!

      • total respects
        Take care Austin you are a good man

        • whatamess

          So you crave CHANGE Grey Fox,,,,so do the Glass Steagalians!? Where’s the disconnect?

          Operator, oh Operator??

          “we must simply destroy them as they present right now or they will surely destroy us”.

          Correct.GS is Exactly that designed mechanism !
          i.e. Simplicity dealing with complexity

          We all want to Restore HOPE of a FUTURE

          You don’t have to be familiar with Occam’s Razor to use our Common Sense

          We have a CHOICE..

          split the banks,”before they do damage,you might not away from!!”


          • Grey Fox

            Not ignoring you whatamess, just not interested in the debate today, sorry pal.

          • Tell me how GS rids us of the odios debts; rids us of the debt based fiat Ponzi money scheme or rids us of fractional reserve banking, a legal fraud.

            Tell me how GS addresses the basic concerns of our money system.

            I am not talking of GS Goldman Sacks who run the world via the aforementioned GS.
            What does it do to separate us from the BIS, IMF. World Bank. etc all running us ragged?

          • bonbon

            You have been told repeatedly. Should I post the links to this blog?

            Now you will be told that the gold mania is merely a population reduction swindle. Glass-Steagall address our basic concern that 6 billion are targeted swift elimination. That could be your concern too if you are human.

        • whatamess

          no worries Grey Fox

          you’ve a business to run,i understand

          keep the faith

      • Ryu Hayabusa

        Some sober thoughts…

        But there’s always a knettle to be grasped if the people just believe in themselves and grasp it.
        A campaign of non co-operation and mass resistance.

        If these fools persist on going down the path they are currently pursuing (which they seem hellbent on doing) then they better be prepared to accept the consequences of their actions.

        There is always a straw that breaks the camel’s back &humans are irrational creatures at the best of times, let alone when you strip everything from them and they’ve got nothing left to lose. That’s when they’re primed up to lose it.

        “Fear can hold you prisoner, hope can set you free!”

        • whatamess

          Whats a “knettle” Ryu ? Do they sting like nettles ? ;) lol

          c’mon man,that was irresistible, especially 3 vodkas later on a SAt night!!

          “amoral” …yeah,that was an emotionally driven frenzy/outburshht piece,in fairness :)ROGL…couldnt just squeeze amoral outa my mind!! …enough comin outa my ass,alot here would say :)…The ‘diffusion’ of TRUTH stinks the monetarists’ gaming room,what ?

          But back to your post Ryu… that “straw” in such a ‘systemic’ casino,doesn’t have to even be a BIG PLAYER falling to gravity, that’ll detonate us and remember ,it’s not the fall that kills,the fall actually can be deliriously painless,but physics takes over then,when you meet any resistance!!the bubble has to have an elastic limit…how close are we right now????Wall St say they’ll know the QE limit,when the breach it!!! thats what they say,seriously!’s like ‘unwittingly’ standing on a land mine and hearing the “clickkkk”…
          The point men on this R&R are leading is into an ambush Ryu!!….we’re on the train to the gas chamber,as much as i hate saying it

          Anyway,anyway,you gotta watch flick Inception my man and the van falling over the bridge scene….that’s an illustration of where humanity is right now….

          BTW Good luck against Spurs !!

    • Ryu Hayabusa

      It’s one hell of a hair-raising corner my friend!!!

  19. Ryu Hayabusa

    Jack Nicholson.

    “Why can’t we all just get along?” That age old chestnut!
    Alas it’s not in our nature.

    Why destroy when you can create?

  20. Ryu Hayabusa

    “The second issue outstanding is the fact that the Irish banks are still more or less bust, and what happens if they need more money?”

    A very pertinent question. They will need more money. But from where?
    It sure as shekels won’t be from the ESM fund.

    Why the headlong rush for collective banking oversight. It certainly doesn’t extend to collective responsibility for recalcitrant bank failings. They like to make big noises… but back it up with hot air.

    The great victory claimed by Enda and Treacle Gilmore on recapitalisation compensation for ‘legacy’ bank debt turns out to be absolute bunkum.


    EU authorities have already legislated for Cyprus-esque bail-ins for forthcoming bank recapitalisations. It’s put into law because they intend to act upon it.
    They’re gonna take a big wet bite out of the savings of the ordinary citizen, coming after everything that’s not nailed down!

    As Diarmuid O Flynn mentioned recently Enda Kenny never even sought a writedown on Irish banking debt! Ever!! Didn’t want to ruffle any feathers..

    Ireland is being shafted seven ways from Sunday. This edifice is going to unravel and when it happens it will occur relatively quickly.

    • whatamess

      And it’s with lightening speed at which THESE laws are “put into law” Ryu !

      Because they intend to act upon it ..100%!

      Just pieces being moved on a board,readying for their assault on ‘unsecured bondholders’ creditors , depositors …anything with a $ sign thats not nailed down ,to feed their insatiable habit

      “annnnd it’s gone,poooouuuuf!”

    • joe hack

      There’s cronyism right here on this site they do exactly what you’re politicians does and this they need to see. They expect the politicians to be different to them. The only difference might be the number of moneys they have¿ Those that complain need first to rogognise this then only can they realise what the problem are within the banking system – a lack of policing. The human nature displayed here. The likes of the wall set say exactly what been said here – I am just taking care of my personal circumstances. But at least with the wall Street set you know what you’re getting but here they want to complain about other doing what they are doing – hypocritical. There is only one MAN on here whos see this looking after yourself is natural but selling it as way to run leads to were we are – fear. Looking after yourself is one thing There is a difference between looking after yourself and promoting it as way to live than there is to promoting as a you want the the world to be.Ubuntu

      WHAT A MESS is the only MAN that get this beware of human nature it tends to distoy the human with fear like the fear that is peddled here.

      In answer Paul Diver WHAT A MESS might be considered blog head of the year ¿

      • whatamess

        “beware of human nature it tends to distoy the human with fear like the fear that is peddled here”

        Fear is a good thing too Joe,keeps us safe, right?Without it,the human species wouldn’t have evolved as quickly,if at all.So my caveat,if it’s ok for me to amend your contribution,is beware of the system of empire instilling fear, which then makes one BELIEVE or think irrationally and one’s behaviour will mirror that fearful state of being and that ‘head space’ is alot easier to CONTROL …

        Thanks Joe for vote but whatamess’s mind is like a young kitten opening it’s eyes for the first time. Bonbon RR6 and many others too have years on me,outside the cave.Don’t let my flowwwwerrry language deceive you:)

        but i will take the entertainment nomination , .,,,c’mon ,ya’ll get movie short clips – kick ass steven seagal,pulp fiction,true romance,south park,Mel brooks,some nature clips of killer frogs and other mad stuff;)

        it’s either laugh or cry now

        • whatamess

          “fear is an easy sell”,as you said Joe

          easier still,to an ALREADY fearful mind

          it’s just slave and master dynamics

          • Ryu Hayabusa

            You get bonus points for entertainment factor! mr. bashful… oh hoover up those plaudits… ;)

            Ta athas an domhan orm an chorn seo a ghlacadh!

            G’won my son.

  21. cooldude

    Crystal clear Ryu. Bail ins are coming this way and anyone who takes any personal action to protect themselves is labelled “elite”. What a load of cobblers.

    • Absolutely, Luddites all over the shop, and they want a closed shop in here – no new ideas or voices – they have created their own talking shop ELITE and they LOVE the sound of their own voices.

      • joe hack

        I here your sounds Adam suggesting people that use smart phones and blogs are ludditts is a bit of oxymoron. kettle calling the pot black – You’re promoting the buying and selling of money for the self protection and then complain about those in the bank business that do the same you are they…
        Should they by more moral than you should they be “ludditts” if you want a better world promote it.

        Policing not just the banking sector is necessary but the banksters types here needs handcuffs on. The human animal is busy at work here – fear is an easy sell to the human.

      • 5Fingers

        Its only words. People feel strongly about their own perspectives. Maybe its ill informed. I take a lot a good stuff from every one here…you, the goldbugs…even Bonbon. Between u me and the blog…they are an elite bunch the whole effen lot of them and they are far too informed for their own good.

        • Oh yeah, I don’t take it that seriously myself Philip, a lot of tongue in cheek going on – better than tongue in arse I hear you say.

          My top 3 of the year.

          1. Andrew (colourful in words and in person – he had a jacket on at Kilkenomics that he had to buy an extra ticket for to get it to the show).

          2. Paul Div (wonderfully poetic and poignant memories).

          3. 5 Fingers (the greatest father of Scientfic Management since Frederick Winslow Taylor – with the occasional incongruous lapse in logic).

          Wooden Spoon:

          Mr. Bonbon (means well, but a headbanger (sort of), I’d gladly have a drink with him though).

          Honorable mention – Tony Brogan – wisdom and experience.

          • joe hack

            Have good Christmas Adam had look the sounds on your own personal blog it looks great but not sure what its trying to say, may be in time it will develop. Best of luck with it …I was going to leave a comment but the sounds were all ready loud enough may when it’s quieter I raise a heckle or two.

          • ‘sounds’ joe?

            It’s just a mixed business blog, no underlying theme.

            Have a good Christmas yourself joe.

          • Thanks Adam. I’d rather be honourable than most else.

            Blessings to All

          • My jacket was a coded signal so some folk would recognise me as I don’t allow images of the prophet of metamodernity to appear online. It was also incredibly cool, and yes, ridiculously expensive and ‘elite’. It was a treat. Actually, I dressed down as I was staying in a b&b. Next year I’ll be in the Presidential Suit at Langton’s in full-on George Clooney in Dries Van Noten mode. That’s just how us plastic paddy Brummie Boys roll!

            thanks for the vote, but if you win these things, it usually means you’ve conformed to group-think, so I pleased with getting the odd thumbs up but never winning the hamper from David.

            my choices are

            1] Deco – he’s won every year I’ve been here
            2] 5Fingers – though he’s getting a bit bitchy with me lately and might get a blast of the flameflower if the ‘elite’ crap happens again
            3] JohnALLEN – again, a perennial choice whose Joycean reimaginings stun me. I’m still working on a response to his pdf that links ancient Africa and Ireland, but I have to finish it by Xmas and follow up the other implications in the new year.

            wooden spoon: the 25 minute drum solos from the gold and Larouche crew: it’s all interesting but..if David could do an article on both so they could riff away to eternity on one thread, that would be cool.

            Adam’s ‘subscribe’ is a gnomic,mysterious response to each and every topic. Subscribe to the thread, to the hive mind, to the ever-expanding loopy lulz of this site which has provided me with AWESOME ENTERTAINMENT for so many years. If I ever manage to get past his security and meet David, I’ll buy him a whisky in Bridie’s to thank him.Now, back to The Christmas. It’s Saturday night, which as ever, is alright for having fun and avoiding the beer monster types looking to avenge their failure to shag by throwing a punch at me in the taxi rank.

          • Paul Div is no div, he’s on my list of winners too. It could be a 5 a side or a full 11, or a mixed nation-diaspora rugby team. DMcW is *quite good* as Manager but needs to sort out some of the training ground facilities: I don’t understand why when you post a comment you have to click and open all of them up again. It’s annoying when you want to blast a thread like wot I do sometimes.

            oh, and furrylugs would be on it and TullMcAloo but they’ve morphed into another persona or got a real life or something and don’t hang out here anymore.

    • 5Fingers

      Look at the CSO numbers for yourself. If you are a household earning 70K across all earners you are in the TOP 5% bracket. Now, it is extremely unlikely they will have a new car every 3 years or have any spare cash for anything if there are any dependents involved.

      To have any savings you need to be reasonably well off. And if you can put it away into various instruments you are very likely to be even better off again. In other words you are at least better off than 95% of the rest of the population. i.e. an elite – look it up in the dictionary: ” A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status”

      I am not making insulting comments to any of the Goldbugs or their ilk. But when they speak, they only speak for the 5%. It is very funny to see the reaction when their exceptional economical status is pointed out. AND IT IS EXCEPTIONAL!!!

      • joe hack

        X infinity but there are people who live frugal lives so that they can save for there future of not living. I disagree that an “elite” is of high intellect by virtue of the fact that they have money there are many “elite” that have high intellect and are not moneyed. We i asume are equating the word “elite” with money and not with intelligence. I just equate money with intelligence I equate excess money with fears….

        The “elite” as used on this site seems to mean anyone with more than the person who complain about the “elite” the it is subjective…

  22. [...] If goody goody Ireland is the model student, how come bad boy Greece is the star performer? from David McWilliams: [...]

  23. Colm MacDonncha

    The money confiscated in the Cypriot Bail-in was mostly that of Russian gangsters and foreign savers based in the Middle East.Very few Cypriots (like the Irish) had large amounts of money saved in banks. The Irish that do have money in banks are getting it out as fast as they can and buying investment properties in Dublin and Galway.The Irish love of property hasn’t gone away and bricks ‘n’ mortar are still regarded as prize assets. They are certainly returning on the investment with rental incomes currently at their highest in decades.As David has said before,follow the money!

  24. joe hack

    To Paul Div,

    In answer to your alphabetical list of blogger of the year.
    I will have to disagree with your suggestions and also decline to accept my place in the list.
    You are way off rr six should be number one not only for his wit- see above- but for his apparent selflessness.

    I read every one of his comments but and in the years here I have only commented once if have at all. Mostly because I agreed with most of what he has said. See above –
    The next in line should be What a mess and for pure entertainment bonbon for without him/her this blog would be akin to earwigging in on a
    coversation in the nursing home were all the x-anglo bankers have retired.

    Rrsix, what a mess, bonbon

  25. joe hack

    Does anyone know of a way to exclusive stop a spell checker from putting capital letters on the words gold, god and christian – is there a spell checker for no religious people ¿ those don’t believe in false golds ¿

  26. joe hack

    No that bug infestation seems to have been quelled with a good dose of gold bug DDT supplied by Monsanto:

    Lets get back to the topic:


    “Where will it come from?” Mr Draghi! As you suggested? buy all the IOUs / devalue / print etc…

    The question might be, should we use our own money/savings or should we borrow to get the economy going – to pay someone else’s debt with our own money? Ask the “house wife “of the fifty’s etc… and pragmatism we rule,,,

    Of course we are all aware that the debt is not ours but the people are compliant in that so since we are in debt we need do some about it, debts tend to have interest payments attached. The debt is getting bigger in the present circumstances; finally Pragmatism must now follow this realisation.

    If we are not going to default, if we are going to leave EURO, if we can’t afford to borrow then using the rainy day money when its needed makes some sense, getting savings to work in the economy has more merit than borrowing, the savings will be worthless if just left there to rot as interest on borrowed money is much higher and the country awash with debt and that tide is rising.

    It certainly has more merit than peddling fear!

    You should know better DMW encouraging fear it is a self fulfilling prophecy it serves only fear and uncertainty already been peddled here in advertisements on your own blog as result…

    A Important topic no doubt

    • bonbon

      DMcW merely hinted with west-Brit innuendo at the robbery about to start. It is all over the German press – posted above here.

      A bit of fear could shake that tiger smirk. And take the life out of the booze. The iceman cometh!

      • joe hack

        I think when you use pest control DDT the bugs mutate.

        What’s needed is a tiger repellent – “they” think that what they do is not part of the problem; “they” think that it is someone else that is at fault, so “they” scapegoat the politicians, as if the politician comes from different form of humanoid…

        A gambling addiction – A Monte Carlo analysis might help! Some have their own blogs as they like the sound there thoughts “they”

        Maybe it’s the AA that is needed and not DDT, or dare I say it, maybe Monsanto should develop a new gambling free human gene, the GS gene.

        I just can’t believe how blatantly selfish “they” are as “they” talk about money as is the reason for being, the goal of life (spuds to feed the famine starved) a horrible sickness that is self serving.

        Enjoy Christmas bonbon

        RRSix my blogger of the year on here; I hope you have a good one “don’t you get it, no one cares…”- rr6 you do…

        • bonbon

          As ECB’s Asmussen say’s below, how many bank holidays are there at “the Christmas”?

          Spending the Christmas is about to get a whole new meaning – bail-in.

  27. joe hack

    There ya go even a web site called “The Doom Collective” above posts DMW apocalyptic topic “This site talks about all things Doom”.. “Doom On”

  28. Adelaide

    Oh Deary Me

    Peter Schiff on ‘Bitcoin vs Gold’ getting into an awful tangle of logical fallacies attempting to explain ‘Intrinsic Value’. This talking-head presentation is 12 minutes of pure buffoonery and historical inaccuracies.
    Save yourself the pleasure of giggling at his nonsense, in summary his point is,
    “Bitcoin is rubbish because Bitcoin is exactly like Gold except for one thing called Intrinsic Value. Now, I have no words to explain or logical idea what ‘Intrinsic Value’ is so I’ll bluster for a good ten minutes on unrelated topics. And with that, Buy Gold, Avoid Bitcoin, because I’m sounding desperately unconvincing the longer I waffle on. Bye Bye.”

    • Yeah I saw that one Adelaide, total waffle fest.

      Peter was a good guest at the first Kilkenomics (2010).

      • Adelaide

        He was on Max Keiser last week and came across well.

        Sadly, in this video, ironically, by his own logical process, by attacking Bitcoin he is attacking Gold and by praising Gold he is praising Bitcoin.

        Double standards!

        • cooldude

          I have to agree. What separates both gold and bitcoin from euros is that both of them are limited in supply. Central bank money and commercial bank money has to keep increasing in volume or else the debt based system collapses. This is simple maths with a debt based system because the interest has to be manufactured from somewhere or else the system collapses in a heap. This is the true ponzi scheme and how people can’t see through this system of robbery is beyond me. This system is designed to create asset bubbles and transfer REAL wealth to the bankers and their corporate buddies which they own anyway. This is crony corporate capitalism at its worst with privately owned central banks deciding everything and creating winners and losers in every market. The only choice we have as individuals is to withdraw our consent from this corrupt system and to seek alternatives. As far as I’m concerned both gold and bitcoin offer “intrinsic value” because their supply is strictly limited unlike the banker’s toilet paper. Despite the negativity here and elsewhere we are not helpless but have choices and can make a difference
          by making informed choices.

          • That’s exactly what I’m doing. Making informed choices and taking informed acctions.

            I already have fully functioning business running completely through bitcoin.

            Even if it tanks tomorrow to zero I’ve already made money and saved a fortune on bank fees, and avoiding dealing with those assholes.

            It’s called walking the walk – as opposed to sitting on my arse and spouting circuitous waffle on here.

          • whatamess

            Oh,good,you’re not cheerleading Bitcoin.

            You’re sidestepping the landmine of heavily investing in Bitcoin for now and instead cherry picking it’s “paypal” functionality…very smart,who would have doubted you Adam

            Lest we forget ,the Eircom shares fiasco…they sure ‘dressed up that lady !!and boyz oh boyz , how those smiles soon turned upside down

            I vividly remember in my teens walking into a huge casino and in the foyer,a couple bawling crying and my old man saying to me ” that’s why you only get $50 for the day !!!

          • I’m not cheerleading shit.

            People can make up their own minds, makes no difference to me.

          • I don’t have money to ‘heavily invest’ whatamess – I’m a student!

          • Bitcoin – Eircom – Casino

            Tenuous at best.

            Illogical flights of ideas at worst.

          • Sidestepping my arse – not my style.

            I tackle things head on.

          • bonbon

            Bitcoin – Eircom – Casino. A lot of lipstick on the financial pig, sorry, piggy bank.

          • whatamess

            Bitcoin – airgead , mar dhea!

            The casino floor is “a cacophony of wonderful and alluring stimulation: bells ringing, siren-like lights flashing, change clanging, slot wheels whirring, digital sounds beeping – it’s all captivating. Why is it captivating? Because it’s non-verbal communication saying, “WIN WIN WIN”. It gives the impression that everyone is indeed winning when, in reality, most are LOSING.”

            And important to note – the people who gamble and lose ,don’t ehhhverrr ‘blog’ their losses!That’s gambling alright!

          • Bitcoin may be the Napster of crypto-currencies. There’s no Spotify going to come and unseat Gold or ‘gold’ to unbelievers. I don’t believe in anything other than reality, gold is tested in reality, Bitcoin is experimental. As were tulips as a store of value. I’m waiting for Eric Janszen at to break his purdah and pronounce on all this. Peter Schiff is very good on some stuff but the anger he feels about his father’s treatment seems to cloud his worldview sometimes.

    • Ryu Hayabusa

      Well he said he wasn’t a Saint, unless a Saint is a Sinner who keeps trying.

      Recollections of him will no doubt get more flowery with time.

  29. Ryu Hayabusa

    According to SJI over the duration the poorest 20% of society have had one fifth of their Income disappear.

    Maybe someone should run that one by the ‘Bailout’ exit cheerleaders!

    I was unable to watch RTE news, it was too painful.

    Michael D just happened to be having a mini fete/bash for the Priory Hall residents. Terribly nice of him, thoughtful and that. . . oh it just happened to coincide with the other celebrations today.

    What exactly were they celebrating, a successful hoodwinking is docha.

    • bonbon

      Disappear – daft. Look at the top 1% and presto it reappears. Of course they are horses of a completely different stripe.

    • joe hack

      A question to you – Ryu Hayabusa, do we continue to borrow indefinitely so more on those you mention pay indefinitely @x% or do we use the moneys that rots in the banks now?

  30. Ryu Hayabusa

    “duration of the crisis”

  31. joe hack

    Why do you think the US government will never ever have a problem funded its expenditures and deficit? “Because the electricity to the computers will never be cut off” James A Galbraith Nov 14, 2013

    The geeks have to earn their Euros the US does not have to earn dollars it can print its own money the Greek cannot -James A Galbraith Nov 14, 2013

    • But they have an inflation problem as all those dollars return home as less and less world trade uses US dollars.

      Watch the bond interest rates on the 10years and longer terms.

      Already the US dollar has lost 98% of its buying power since 1913 compared to gold. Likely it will lose another 98% of what is left within the next 25 years. Admittedly there was some interest paid on the fiat if invested, subject to income tax of course. Even at an average 6% compounded annually, and no tax the fiat buying power is half the gold. Even with the price of gold constantly under attack and official suppression for the last 40 years. Chinese and Russians know this. Arabians and Iranians too, not to mention most other Orientals.

      Are we dumb or what??

      • bonbon

        Daft. A 1913 Dollar could not buy a nuclear reactor, nor even a computer. The pre-Apollo Dollars are not the same as just after. The jingoism of the $14 Apollo dollars earned for $1 invested misses the point totally.

        The insane monetarism on public display is jaw dropping. It really is a mental affliction. Gold is an extreme symptom.

        Now a 2013 Dollar could not fund a new fusion reactor, the expertise and capability is gone.

        So a lesson : a new economic platform must be put in motion. Then we can talk about the “Dollar”.

        • The numerical ‘value’ of a dollar is totally irrelevant – decimal points can always be moved.

          So I am with Mr. bonbon on this one – well it is Christmas after all.

          • joe hack

            bonbons in your christmas stocking and chocolate money too – it melts too like gold – it mutates when digested.

          • Paul Divers

            Relax Adam. Can I offer you a mince pie?

            Or how about the GS lads and the Gold Bugs et al meet for a kickabout between the trenches?

            Bonbon is playing in goals.

        • whatamess

          A new economic platform must be put in motion. Then we can talk about the “Dollar”


          As you’ve said so many times Bonbon,”To suppress necessary progress hits the relative potential population density, and life expectancy of our species and has to be considered as concerted population reduction.
          What’s needed,so desperately, is a willfull ,upwardly evolution-driven economy.”

          Is the canary in this world casino-mine of ours,drawing it’s final breath?

          Pople assuming things will change,without creative intervention ,”is the mother of all fuck ups”

          I’d rather be sans the current system of casino empire, with an unsound ‘money’ ,rather than continue with empire and a new sound money.

          Enjoy your holidays Bonbon!

          cinedhíothú (n) = genocide

          [ pidgin translation = a type of decided erradication]

        • You do not indicate an understanding of money at all. The metrics you use here bare no relationship to the statement above.

      • joe hack

        @ T,
        He also said, as we mention a while back, that china does not want to see the dollar collapse. In the present circumstances, I agree, as they are up to their neck in it. However, I don’t think china wants see the dollar last I think they, and many others – EU included – are actively seeking an out but on their terms…

        • Probably correct there Joe.

          China will milk the situation for all the gold and silver it can get and then having rid of as many $US as it can will opt for a basket of currencies including the US dollar and gold combo to become a world reserve currency. They will give it a fancy name like previously mentioned SDR special drawing rights and the bankers will try to retain control having it issued via the central banks central bank the BIS Bank of international settlements. (very convenient name there).

          China will likely write off the US dollar reserves as a cost of getting all the western technology in a generation as well as all the infrastructure at Western expense.
          Unlikely China will try to exercise a reserve currency status for the Renminbi alone as they see what happens to all other nations aspiring to empire. —collapse.
          bit of speculation here as I gleaned from several other sources of opinion over the last 2-3 years.

    • US “exorbitant privilege” closing gold window, printing dollars, credulous Japanese, Arabs and Chinese fell for it. de Gaulle was quick to smell a rat:

      Charles de Gaulle, Monetary Crisis Ghost of 1965

      Whilst the Shale Ponzi plays out, the dollar remains as good as gold and Fortress America will continue to use Ireland as a Euro airstrip and Britain-

      “The Other Side of Suez”

      Both islands of these Isles of Wonder need a geo-political strategy ‘going forward’ for when the dollar implodes and America has to abandon Empire, close it’s military bases and their financial proxies and pass the baton on to China.

      So, Enda and Cameron, take the Troika’s pork swords out of yer mouths and arses, grow a pair, find a spine and stop betraying the Nation State to the incubus/succubus of The City/Wall Street and it’s fledgling Euro temple in the IFSC. Cue Irish National Anthem and set video timer to record Enda’s speech tomorrow night *rollseyes*

      Amhrán na bhFiann

      The truth of the collapse of the 1st Irish Republic is to be found amidst the bodies of Irish Brummies on 21/11/74.We’re not the ‘diaspora’, we’re not plastic paddies, they’re all in the Dail, we were/are and will be ‘even better than the real thing’. Any young one reading this who has to leave Ireland soon, just like my parents in the 50s: have no fear, the culture is strong enough to withstand another forced bout of emmigration from the fake patriot soi-disant Soldiers of Destiny in FF/FG. SF are being examined by my team as we speak.

      Amhrán na bhFiann

      “Michael Collins is me, W.T Cosgrave..I will be. St Patrick was a Briton & a BrummieBoy was Padraig Pearse’s atheist Daddy. I was born on a boat on the Irish Sea..and these Isles of Wonder belong to you and me” Etc

  32. bonbon

    Even the Troika Think Irish Government Wrong to Accept Bank Bailout and Austerity!

    IMF mission chief for Ireland, Ashoka Mody, was a member of the troika team that put together the bailout package for the Irish banks. Now, three years later, he says that his troika partners’ – ECB and EU Commission – imposition of the murderous austerity policy which ensued, was “analytically, practically and institutionally wrong”.

    “To be hopeful about the future would require a much more ambitious policy direction from Europe beyond austerity”.

    “This is a crisis in as much as because there are no clear answers and . . . no system within which to think of more ambitious and more radical ways of altering that trajectory, that dynamic,” he said.

    Still, typical IMF functionaries balk at the obvious – Glass-Steagall. It goes against their paradigm. Result? Bail-ins, or “levy” as DMcW puts it.

  33. bonbon

    The European Parliament gave its official go-ahead for the bail-in “approach,” in a decision Dec. 11. An EU directive will enter into force on January 1, 2015, and the bail-in system is to take full effect on January 1, 2016. Anticipate then bail-in’s can for sure begin at any time, starting with the EU Summit on Dec.19-20.

    ECB’s Jörg Asmussen on Handelsblat yesterday : “It must be ensured that the orderly resolution of a bank can be done over a weekend.” “The bail-in has to be done quickly, because otherwise, the depositors might try to pull out their money.”

    According to the lying sophistry that is to protect the taxpayer, then, shall we believe that “taxpayers” have no bank accounts, and conversely, that “shareholders and creditors” of banks pay no taxes? Citizens will be milked twice: once as depositors and once as taxpayers. Ask any Cypriot or Spaniard. Or, Mr. Asmussen.

  34. joe hack

    Money is whatever the majority of people trust and believes it is – bitcoin is a global money its (sove)-‘reign’ will then have to be global it may help to define globalisation. Which inevitable means less control – a dictate by those with access to the algorithms no guarantee you that might be – none – be careful what you wish for!!!

    • bonbon

      Very well put. There is even a Bitcoin bubble. Now I wonder if that fizzed up out of the prime numbers…

    • Yes Joe, that is the point about bitcoin.
      It is away from the control of the central bankers. It is Universal. It has to be “mined” into existence, it is of more and more limited supply with greater and greater effort required to produce another coin.
      It is anonymous and can not be traced to an individual.
      The whole concept is designed in the style of the Austrian school of thinking.
      It is designed to be and to act as close to gold as can be imagined.
      The only difference between bitcoin and gold is that one is totally electronic and the other can be carried by hand or pocket.
      There are as yet , as far as I know , no physical bitcoins but gold can be digitized.

      Both are international currencies and reflect the desire of people to be free of the tentacles of banker and government control.

      The ultimate money will be bitcoin backed by gold. It will enable trade and prosperity between all people. The money will have no artificial boundary. Its value as a medium of exchange will be set by the market place.

      This combination is already available in limited places but only as a form of conversion one to the other as required or desired. Not yet available as a combo.

      Take care Joe. Getting stoned for you has a different “connotation”. So do not get stoned over Christmas.!!:)

      Blessings abound, may you have your share.

      • bonbon

        Gold and Bitcoin are indeed of the same mint. Both are a guarantee of massive population reduction the minute the elites act to force a (bit-) Specie Resumption. This shows the Austrian Schools true colors, rather stripes, rather crossed bars, known in Ireland as the Butcher’s Apron.

      • michaelcoughlan

        Hi Tony,

        “The only difference between bitcoin and gold is that one is totally electronic and the other can be carried by hand or pocket”

        Let me respectfully suggest the following; there are more differences. Gold has a history of use as money for thousnds of years. Bitcoin doesn’t. Gold also is ubiquitous in it’s use as money whereas bitcoin is only getting traction. Gold can increase in quantity per year by thd mining output whereas bitcoins are finite. Also Tony there is something I rely don’t like about bitcoin. Bitcoin was created by whoever and you can be sure that that entity controls at least half of the bitcoins in existence which will allow them to periodically crash the market cleaning up over and over again. Bitcoins may well reach stratospheric leves in price but will never have any value unlike gold which can be used to create useful products.

        Steer clear of bitcoins. They are a death trap for the unwary.


        • joe hack

          Spot on Micheal I have researched this topic at length.
          bitcion is far from gold and could be a dangerous money system if in it’s left in it’s present form.

          • Dangerous?
            Who will, can, change it?
            But backed with gold and then used with a similar electronic system and voila. A perfectly sound money able to be used electronically, for any volume of trade world wide. Inflation free and no exaggerated boom and bust, no phony business cycle. Just harmonious mutual beneficial interest.
            (Un)Fortunately banksters and governments would have little say over it’s operation and effectiveness allowing efficient allocation of scarce resources to the benefit of all.
            your ambition of equality of wealth would be realized by such a system, Joe.

          • joe hack

            Your wishes are not commands if only the world was full of honest people. Nor do I expect that any un-policed system would be any more honest than the one we have.

            It would be worse; it is a fantasy to suggest that all would well without control.

            Your suggestions are Dark Age stuff. bitcoin as you may know is not backed back by gold or anything, nor it likely to be.

            The lads that created it, can decide to do as they please with it, , they are in control and who are “THEY” they say that no one can touch the code including themselves? Do u believe that – the FSB, NSA, GCHQ, joe the hacker? Can Tap in to the inter-connector etc what happen if your computer crashes and your bitcoin record is gone who are you going to call, who are going to call when a transaction disappears into the either.

            Quite simply this is dangerous as is any one world currency that could fall in to the hands one person or group, think Hitler, think of the dollars power now, look were that led us, think of the power of banks, in the past and now, bitcion would be worse. One hsbc one lemans one aib with drug lords …… policeman.
            Already is been abused:



      • Sounds like you are warming to bitcoin.

        Did you actually get any yet Tony?

  35. michaelcoughlan

    Hi all,

    With dismay I see the blog descend into the same tit for tat sound mooney split banks mantra as always. As a result you all missed a very important point our host made which corroborates what I’ve been saying all along;

    “The economy here is turning slowly, not as a result of government policy but in spite of it”

    In other words we don’t need the fail eireann people, banks to be split, gold backed money, thorium powered nuclear reactors to be built to thrive. WE ALL can thrive IN SPITE of the scumbags in the banks etc.

    Our host himself is living proof. A classically trained economist who tried to do the right thing when workin as an economist and found himself surpluss to requirements as a result. Picked himself up and reinvented himself as a freelance jounslist reporting on economic matters making a very handsome living for himself since.

    Refocus yer creative energies lads.



    • joe hack

      Happy Christmas Michel welcome back, hope you have good one, I believe there are some bonbons in your stocking this year.

      Are you suggesting we all become journalist’s lol

      That’s the trouble with debate, it never really gets anywhere, it is not necessarily indented to , it has brought to a conclusion which you have clearly stated… it’s a pain that no one does what “I” want …..

      So are you happy to bail out banks and or bail in the banks and carry on regardless of the pain that has been fisted on people and will continue to be?

      The “hosts” article is more or less about this, as a “host” he has not even offered eggnog.

      Always Respectfully

      • Paul Divers

        1994. Carry on Regardless. Beautiful South, Good As Gold (Stupid As Mud).


        Like was simpler back then.

      • michaelcoughlan

        Hi Joe,

        Thanks for your response. I hope I get bonbons in my stocking as they will be more useful than we know who. Thanks for the welcome too. You once again missed the point. The success stories McWilliams are referring to also are presented with the same circumstances as all of us re banks, fail eireann etc. They are getting on with it and thriving in spite of it all. They aren’t talking themselves up their arses on McWilliams blog.

        It doesn’t matter whether I’m happy or not re the banks they will suit themselves anyway. Keiser has repeatedly proved this when he clearly states that when the elite need more money they print it.. The get away with it by hiding behind the us armed farces who dictate what will or won’t happen re
        trade with other nations but thankfully
        with les and less influence.

        We as a people as opposed to a state are in no more different circumstances than before when succesive governments both native and imposed
        tried to impose their agenda on us. We will prosper now also if we look to ourselves. That’s all.



        • bonbon

          Daft. M.Keiser clearly states for every printed private paper, real debt is shoved down the throat of the state and its citizens. To claim Ireland is no different after FF and FG/LP literally eviscerated it is just plain party foot-soldier stuff. If you think for a moment that nothing must be done about the toys of that 1%, the totally bankrupt banking system, you must be playing with toys in a baby-pen.

          • whatamess


            Throwing toys outa the cot is likey with such grotesque BLASSSSPHHEEEEMY!!

            ‘Count de Money’ will accuse you of treason!!Ughhh!


            Max K ,the X-MIT omnipotent,man of the people ,one of the first “architects” of The Matrix ,who doesn’t often speak of GS ,so that,for ‘some’ anyway,is gospel TRUTH



          • Agree here
            The bankrupted and bankrupting central banking system and the fractional reserve system must be removed. a return to an honest system of money is required.
            Bitcoin may be the first manifestation of a quiet rebellion. Coupled with gold it will let the banksters wither on the vine.

          • bonbon

            Some like big flat stones, other lots of small ones. And some hawk stones for the stoning!


          • michaelcoughlan

            Its just as well for you that your such a fucking coward you neither post in your own name nor would man up to doing something proactive re your views.

            If you had a pair of balls and stood in front of me I punch you right in the mouth for the way you keep misrepresenting my posts.

            I said it’s no different for the people NOT Ireland the state. It galls scumbags like you to see private citizens thriving despite all the shit because it deprives madmen like you that which you crave; total control to ram your totalitarian fucking craziness down everyone’s throats. I never have thought that nothing should be done re the
            banks and even a cursory
            Inspection of my posts will prove it.

            So take your madness bonbon and shove it up your ass.

        • joe hack

          Micheal, if one accepts what you say as true that does mean one cannot keep looking for answers, even for ones own sanity.

          I have often said it is time to move past what has happened to what is, and on to what might be, even somewhere here on this topic above.

          It also can be healthy to try, even if just for the self, with no possibility of achieving change.

          I am not in the money business in any sense of it’s meaning.

          I cant’ tpey or spell so I struggle to communicate my thought as effectively as I would wish.

          I don’t agree with most people on here,actually I don’t agree with anyone on here they all should be more like me there must something wrong with them.

          There now going be one less person to shout at the fight never ends your are been a fatalist.

          People have been fighting for thousands of years if they had not things would be worse and they did it for you and me.

          Enjoy your Bonbons

    • Paul Divers

      It’s amusing because it feels like being back in the playground and listening to grown adults argue makes you think children have more sense

      Last night I saw the Good, The Bad and The Ugly and the end Blondie leaves Tuco in the searing desert with four sacks of gold coin. No horse and his hands tied behind his back. Let’s just say he was in a tight spot!

      I wondered how much of it he would have swapped for a bottle of water and a lift to the nearest town.

      Ps. I was in a mace garage waiting in the queue and looking at the sweet stand. Guess what. They had Bonbons for sale. Strawberry ones.

    • whatamess

      We ,humanity, cannot possibly THRIVE , with one of empire’s grubby hands squeezing our nuts and the other hand suffocating us Michael !

      and it’s us,humanity, that’s surplus to requirements when all they have to do is keep the printing presses open??!!

      Glass Steagall will deliver the designed “phase transition” needed and only then, creatively planned economic propulsion !

      • michaelcoughlan


        Don’t bother responding to my posts whatamess. You rarely say anything worth considering.


        • whatamess

          i’ll respect that Michael

          happy holidays

          • michaelcoughlan


            Let me pay you a compliment. You clearly are intelligent very well read, articulate etc.

            You do yourself no favours repeating your GS mantra to people who agree with the point. Your talents are misdirected in this
            regard. Organise some pro GS event and I will support you so long as bonbon and his mates are not
            involved. I have no intention of repeatedly getting dragged into the GS stuff.

            Have a good Christmas.


          • whatamess

            I’m not so intelligent as it happens Michael …i have done several IQ tests to demonstrate that very fact! lol

            and i’m not all that well read either …the last 2 years i’ve aggressively made up ground on some ‘lost’ years yea ,but i’m no great shakes…

            But i do try very hard to keep it real!!

            And sorry if we locked horns before …i take ownership of some of my posts, that were unnecessarily harsh on you…just let my emotions get the better of me!

            I sense your eagerness for acquiring knowledge and understanding,like the rest of us here,but sometimes you want to download information like Neo in this clip…1 min


            I will continue with GS however,as it’s a TRUTH … and we’re on the edge now and GS is a real CHOICE to give hope for a future

            Enjoy “The Christmas” Michael ;)

          • michaelcoughlan

            You don’t have a hope. But I’m not going to stand in your way. The reason you have no chance is because it’s you yourself who will prevent you from ever achieving any goal you set for yourself. Maybe if the penny ever drops with you and you need my observation explained to you I’ll be happy to help but in the meantime don’t bother with my posts.

            Best regards and best of luck for the new year.


          • whatamess

            good enough Michael

            let’s l;eave it there

      • GS is what the PTB want you to gaze at while they continue their nefarious operations under other guises.

        There is still the debt based fiat Ponzi money scheme operating unaddressed. There is still the legal fraudulent fractional reserve banking system pumping unlimited debt into the economy.

        If you want to fight a fire you put it out at the base not spray it with a garden hose.

        • bonbon

          The banks will do anything to prevent Glass-Steagall – it is their ultimate nightmare. I do not think you support their system intentionally, but in effect you do. Their lobby is fully mobilized with such sophistry to parry all attacks, but we are many and they are few, by the day.

          Some have seen the inevitable, like Sandy Weil, but others will “make their stand” for the lost cause of a feudal knights errand.

        • bonbon

          Or are you simply worried what Glass-Steagall will do to gold? A personal “concern”?

          • michaelcoughlan


            All you ever talk about is Hamilton but conveniently overlook the fact that he was responsible for coining gold and silver.

          • sooner or later you twist the debate to a personal nature.
            What concerns you? What private agenda do you have?
            bonbon dons a stealth cloak. nobody must know or recognize me for I am afraid to be exposed, I can not stand the day light. I operate in the shadows. That is my creed, my name is bonbon.
            Why do you not acknowledge the evils of the central banking system and the legal fraud of the fractional reserve system.
            Do you secretly support such a system?
            Are you in fact a central banker, bonbon. You hate gold just like a central banker. Were you raised as an elite in a private school. Are you a part of the 1% wearing a mask. Do you masquerade as a supporter of humanity and the starving billion? Just who the hell are you bonbon? not that I really care bonbon as you will have no affect on anything I decide to do or not do.
            But of course you will never answer any question, you never do. Presumably because you have no real answers.

            Personal innuendo is your forte.

          • bonbon

            Looks like a case of nerves there. The golden cage was rattled. Good!

          • whatamess


            CFTC?oopps that’s vodka Tony;)lol

            With Gangrene and necrosis at an advanced stage,taking the patients leg,can be a life saving choice,right? That hard decision must be made!but yea,be careful what you wish for…but i understand Newtons first law.That’s enough to inform my decision.

            Waiting for gold to go supernova,is a lost cause for a “withering” humanity.

            Not being derogatory Tony, but Gillian Tett’s “Fools’ Gold” is asuper interesting read – derivatives, securitization and instruments(of destruction)

            “There is still the legal fraudulent fractional reserve banking system pumping unlimited debt into the economy.”

            Outlawing gambling is a HUGE ask Tony right,but by splitting the banks,that’ll in itself rein the banksters,including central banks too!!!! With GS in place,the rule book changes totally and subsequently gamblers ‘behaviours change…Like a trapeze artist now minus a safety net…he won’t be oh so brave then,right?

            Dog and frisbee -”2lets not fight fire with fire,instead,lets fight complexity with simplicity -GS 24 carrot! ;)

          • whatamess

            and stick,to some anyway;)

    • bonbon

      If any journalist thinks and writes that Ireland can recover without touching that financial cess-pool, one fine day Lenihan’s Cuairt an Mhean Oiche will look like fun.

      • michaelcoughlan

        He pointed out that manny businesses are thriving in spite of it all and your response clearly indicates your failure to recognise this. Blinded by the brainwashing you receive.

        • bonbon

          To break the golden spell, in spite of it all, below are the numbers.

          From this banking boot on the neck, an economy will not be, nor even to spite it.

          Neither will the Common Good arise from Private Vice and Spite of the casino, contrary to Bernard Mandeville’s acolytes’ chant.

          • michaelcoughlan

            He pointed out that manny businesses are thriving in spite of it all and your response clearly indicates your failure to recognise this. Blinded by the brainwashing you receive.

  36. whatamess

    printing presses open to feed the banksters,ONLY ??!!

    to add insult to that bailout injury,we have bail-ins , again serving to ‘accommodate’ ONLY our slave money masters!

    pieces of eight Fabian stuff …PIRATES ,in Armani suits,nothing more

    • That is why the central banker fiat money system needs closing and the fractional reserve system of money expansion be illegal.

      Not only does the current system feed the bankers but it steals by inflation the lifeblood of the nations. It is also the reason that 99% is owned by the 1%.

      • bonbon

        That is easy to see, Scylla. What everyone must be on the watch for is Charybdis, that devouring depression brought on either by bail-in’s or any attempt at a Specie Resumption, hard money siren song. You need to look over the ships prow – the sudden drop in the sea may not be tide!

        • OR as admitted by LaRouche PAC, the implementation of GS.

          The devouring depression cannot be avoided in the current monetary system.

          There is a way out that does not involve gold initially or require bandaids such as GS

          • bonbon

            Fully quote the source, a video :
            Glass-Steagall: Wall Street’s Permanent Bank Holiday
            “Reenacting Glass-Steagall will mean orchestrating the largest market crash in human history. We present six detailed steps that describe how we will clean up our banking system. Glass-Steagall is not the full recovery, it does not guarantee economic growth, but it is the first step forward–and it will ruin Wall Street.”
            As I repeatedly show, the first step is GS, then Hamiltonian banking. Massive credit for Reconstruction, but not for bubbles of any kind of proprietary stuff.

  37. bonbon

    I must admit some funny observations from Miriam Lord in IT

    It looks like EndaMoses, of Biblical repute, is leading the Exit, chanting Blessed be the Bondholders, for theirs shall be the promissory Notes.

  38. bonbon

    A taste of reality for “thriving Tigers”, anti-Tigers et al, in spite of it. I am absolutely sure DMcW knows these numbers…

    Food exports is only sector to record growth so far this year. The country’s trade surplus narrowed sharply in October. The surplus shrank 8pc in October while unadjusted data for the first 10 months of 2013 shows that exports are down by 6.4pc against imports so far this year to date.

    The trade surplus for the year so far is €31.8bn, down 12.2pc on the same period last year.
    The latest data showed little reason for cheer, bank and investment specialists Investec said.

    The figures, which show the positive balance between the country’s exports and imports, show that the amount we are exporting fell against the amount we are importing, from €3.21bn to €2.97bn.

    Merchandise export volumes fell by 5.7pc, while imports slipped by 1.3pc, year on year.

    “Drilling into the various sectors shows that this weakness is broadbased,” said Investec’s analyst Philip O’Sullivan.

    “Of the nine key export categories, only one (food, which is up by 7.2pc year on year) has recorded growth in the year to date compared to the same period last year.

    The figures reveal weakness across most of Ireland’s key export markets. Except for chemical exports, other exports to Britain were down 5.1pc, while exports to other EU countries fell by 1.2pc. The US remained unchanged, while exports to China fell by 8pc, and to the rest of the world by 4.1pc.

    “While the international backdrop has picked up in recent quarters, this improvement has yet to feed through into Ireland’s headline merchandise trade statistics,” said Mr O’Sullivan.

    • whatamess


      Of the nine key export categories,have you per chance read what % each category contributes to our GDP ?

      People will remember during the ‘boom’ , or is that Kaboooom, construction was running at 23% of GDP, when a so-called ‘healthy’ economy would be running at only 11% of construction input,thus the bubbbble

      • whatamess

        i say GDP as i dare not say “Ire Inc”,in case Joe ‘wrist slaps’ me again…

        hey Joe,whatyyya know? ;)

      • bonbon

        The Triple Curve, shows that the physical economic plunge is accelerating as the monetary madness skyrockets. GDP today mixes in the monetary vapor to inflate the numbers. As far as the numbers above go, which are not trustworthy as they avoid the collapse of healthcare, manufacturing, and energy, they are still lipstick.

        • Absolutely.

          The more the money expansion the greater the debt. The greater the debt the more the interest to be paid.

          The real economy will be suffocated with debt while strangled with interest. A wet sack over ones head while simultaneously being hanged.
          That is the preordained result of using the current fiat credit money imposed on the world by the central banking system.

          Revolution will be the adoption of a free honest currency and the throwing off of the monetary shackles of the central banks and their institutions.

          GS is merely being shuffled from one cell to another in the financial prison.

          bitcoin designed as a golden digital currency is a movement of the people to avoid the stifled economy emanating via traditional sources.

          The old model is death, the new is life.

  39. bonbon

    Big British insurance vulture facing wipe out. It’s sure to have major repercussions, maybe even the spark for a general collapse? -
    CATASTROPHIC losses at RSA’s Irish division may prompt a takeover of the insurance giant or lead the company bonds to be rated as junk. Almost two thirds of RSA’s total reserves have been poured into Ireland in a matter of weeks.

    Glass-Steagall seperates insurance as well from deposit banking. Without this in place, insurance can trigger a systemic blow-out.

    • And how is this insurance company connected to the banking system?

      • bonbon

        Forgotten AIG so quickly?

      • bonbon

        The connection runs right through your deposit account. The dots are joined with the bail-in.

        • Not forgotten AIG
          What sort of insurance are you discussing. Regular insurance. I was asking for a linear description so we can see the thread that connects.
          Personally I do not have a deposit account and as far as I can tell I have removed any assets from the system.
          This was advised 4-5 years ago by renowned gold bug , mining entrepreneur, and general mentor, James Sinclair AKA Mr Gold. He is held in high regard. See

          • whatamess


            I’m watching right at this moment a documentary on Animal Planet on volcanoes and ‘pyroclastic flow’…Reminds me of the current outta control DEBT train,heading to a town near you!

            i sure hope you lifeboat is fully fuelled ,has room for everybody and a working engine coz brother, we do NOT want that shit storm CHASING us???

          • whatamess
            Your comment reminded me of the native stories recounted in the area of Glacier Bay. Alaska.
            Now it is a world heritage site celebrating its unique flaura and fauna.
            Two hundred years ago it was still ice packed with glaciers.

            The native story relates how they now reclaim their ancestral grounds which they were forced to leave as the ice came rapidly.
            They say it came so quickly that they had to walk out daily to stay ahead of it.
            One never knows what is coming to get you.

        • bonbon

          You may have a golden necklace to join the dots. Do you for a minute believe your ship can survive Charybdis? How can anyone think gold can stop the collapse? Looking for “regular” this or that now is ridiculous. Even if you think the 1% including you can survive, think again.

          Instead of sailing right into Charybdis’s maw, split up the financial system and start a massive recovery. Odysseus survived Charybdis, alone, to find Greece depopulated overrun by pirates. His writing was lost for 800 years.

          • nobody suggests gold will stop the collapse. How many times do we repeat this before it sinks in?
            The collapse is inevitable in the current monetary system.
            Life will go on. Fortunes lost and made wealth transferred from here to there.
            people will eat , have families , live and die.
            When the collapse occurs there will be a massive reset. Massive inflation in monetary areas and deflation in the physical economy as you already indicate yourself is happening.

            gold is a lifeboat in the economic storm. a paid for home will be too. As has oft been advocated. Get out of debt any way you can.

            GS will precipitate the reset and the crash. Just be prepared and as others have said to me , be careful what you wish for.

          • Bonbon please try to stop talking in riddles and parables.

            What on earth has 800 years of lost writing to do with anything. In regards to that I understood it to be an aurally transmitted history that was finally recorded by Homer 800 years after the event. One might say the story arrived by Homer pigeon!

          • michaelcoughlan

            Hi Tony,

            His thorium powered time machine is acting up again. You get dragged into his web time and again. He’s never going to validate your hypothesis so let it go man. Yours is a life lived well. He dosent even have the courage to post in his own name.


          • I do not respond for bonbon, Michael.
            I will debate the issue at hand. I wish to learn where I err.

            Others will point out the errors or have questions. Likewise I will question others statements and that includes bonbon.

            I generally remain impersonal unless others start the sequence. All points of view are welcome but personal vindictive statements and innuendo are not.

            The Christmas message arrives and we should heed it. Time for a fresh start

            “Peace on earth and goodwill to all mankind”

            Blessings, Michael

      • whatamess


        CTFC and Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act,right??

        • whatamess


          • I do not understand where you are going here
            CFTC investigated the silver rigging Fraud for 5 years and then found nothing to act on.
            Every market participant knows the markets are grossly rigged but the commission can not go against government policy so it is essentially toothless.
            Bare naked shorting of the paper market is grossly distorting the physical pricing.
            Same in the gold market.
            It will collapse as it did in the 70′s when physical supply dries up and the price has to be settled multiples higher than today.
            China steadily plays the rigged paper market too and then scoops up the cheap bullion and has it delivered to points east.
            Physical supply is depleted and running out. It is a major reason Germany settled for 105 tonnes of gold over 7 years rather than 2000 tonnes demanded today in the initial “request” for repatriation.
            The spot price is now lower than the overall cost of mining which will further constrict the production of mined supply.

          • bonbon

            Care to comment on Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act?


        It is a general insurance company with higher claims hitting profits. Where are the financial derivatives, that may affect banks and the financial system?
        Was the phony accounting only in Ireland?

        • bonbon

          Of course not, and none of the crash was only in Ireland. Be alert.

          • Rhetorical question there bonbon.

            If GS is a US Law what will stop the banks operating the same way they wish anywhere else in the world.

            Ireland needs a national solution, not a multi national one.

            It means leaving the EURO currency and implementing a treasury issued national currency free of debt.

          • bonbon

            And implementing Glass-Steagall immediately. None of the problems nor solutions are parochial, and none involve farming spuds in the balcony.

    • Insurance of derivatives by counter party after counter party in a pyramid of claims is one thing.
      Financial losses initiated by bad weather claims or accidents etc is another.
      There is no evident connect of this insurance company to claims on deposits. That applies to bankrupted banks. AIG was a counterparty to claims on financial bets.
      RSA appears to be a general insurance company that may? go broke. Ditto the bondholders and shareholders, but banks as a result also going under??
      Are you scaremongering here?

      • bonbon

        The EU just passed the bail-in as I posted above. They are preparing for a huge heist, they know full well a “Lehman” will happen any minute, but have no clue from where it will come to dinner. But thy know where deposits are – as they say transparency has never been so good.

      • joe hack

        pension funds at the ESB might a good place to start to connect evidence and that just one in a big web.

        The bank bail outs were put place to protect the bondholders, the bondholder are for the most part insurance company’s – pension fund if the bail where could then the ESB worker work not have had trathen strike.
        now where does money come from to pay the ESB pension since they now going to get the pension that which was gone is now reapeired…

  40. joe hack

    Righteous Indignation

  41. whatamess

    Achtung Achtung !!

    Can we please stay on topic everybody??In fairness !!

    I can only speak for myself, but i find it awwwwfullly disconcerting that you all stray from the title of our host’s offering.Allow me to lad by example …huhhhh!

    Hold On Greece! Your c**k is on the ‘bloc’ ,but no need to sweat so profusely …ECB has got your back! …or rather locked on to your medulla oblongata,for the kill shot!

  42. joe hack

    bonbon it’s time for you to stop your Self Righteous Indignation it can be done I have helped others through this process one step at time, there is friendly face here ready to hold your hand and help through this metamorphosis.

  43. bonbon

    Wow, RSA sure stirred up the “keep it low-key” Exit Party, did’nt it. Sure took the life out of the boozy “recovery”.

    The doomed system is primed for another “Lehman”, the trigger again will come from off-field. Moving the goal posts has become comical.

    Have a look Joint Statement from Belgium: Four MPs and Agora Erasmus Call for Glass-Steagall

    “Breaking Up the Banks: A Responsible Policy” Why? “Let’s go back for a moment and review the sequence of events. In 2008, the losses of AIG, the cause of the fall of Merrill Lynch and Lehman Brothers (resulting at home with the debacle of Fortis and Dexia), brutally reminded us that globalized, deregulated and strongly interconnected finance, can send our society durably to hell. —-

    I think DMcW put it well with the Dubya recollection. Most carnage will occur after the Draghi and Bernanke “fixit”. Same for the Gold crowd, the carnage such policies will incur surpass anything even poor Dubya could fathom. It is really dumb to defeat the 7-headed financial monster Scylla. only then to be devoured by the billions by Charybdis.

    • bonbon

      DMcW in the lead : “Part of protecting the economy is being honest about it, being truthful with the people as to why things are happening and being alert to any unexploded financial landmines”.

      With no Glass-Steagall separation the landmines can be in the corridors of insurance too.

      If that is not clear enough I do not know what is.

  44. joe hack

    Which is better or worse?
    Borrowing money to keep Ireland afloat at interest rates we can’t afford and which will have to be paid by those not yet born or using savings that now exist?
    Production has falling and employment has risen slightly while wages have falling?

    Define Tax?

    • bonbon

      The EU troik-sters define saving the depositor better than saving the taxpayer, oops, or was that saving the taxpayer by robbing the depositor?

      Jack Sprat could eat no Fat
      his Wife could eat no Lean
      So between them Both
      the cooked the Goat
      an licked their Plates clean.

      I wonder who is invited to the “low-key” exit-dinner?

    • Better route is neither Joe.
      Set the banks to one side and let them fail. Revoke the odious debt.
      Close central banks
      Issue treasury notes at zero cost and no debt and interest to replace fiat.
      other solvent banks will take up the slack and use the post office.
      It is the only way to avert a crash and there is no need to bailout anyone.
      Depositors will have treasury funds in lieu of fiat.

      National debt and associated payments are eliminated.
      Income tax can be eliminated.

      Tell the current system to take a hike and get on with life.

      nothing like this is explored as an option. This site is too intent on scoring points against each other to ever debate the pros and cons logically.

      United with a logical common policy we survive and thrive. Divided we fall into the maw of the central bankers.

      • bonbon

        Still no mention of the massive Reconstruction, on a scale never seen, that is urgently needed without loosing a step after Wall Street is ruined. That defies monetary “logic”, but life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness does to!

  45. joe hack

    It must have been fear of an ESB strike that had the insurance company’s on their knees to SAINT ANTHONY – it worked they found the pension fund which was supplied to the bailed out bond holders (the insurance company’s)by the Irish tax payer.

    I wonder if Noonan is aware of this intervention

    • joe hack

      moon landings, so passe – it seems? Moon Inc?

      Your government is proud of Your hard work, your work has helped see the Troika step back into the shadows – the dark-side.

      Your reward is more debt, Your father and master, Edna, is pleased with your submissiveness, you should now be proud to be an Irish pleb.

      • whatamess

        “Moon Inc” – genius!

        As it happens,i’ve just secured it as an international / inter-galactic brand and trademark Joe !! …..down to every napkin on the “Glass Steagall” Astro-Station, will yield me 14 Federation credits!!! (tritium backed naturally, due to stability ratios)

        It’s a merchandisers wet dream!!!!

        I am however restricted to The Milky Way only…i’m not a greedy man,right?! Ahem,i do happen to own the exclusive distribution rights for many other galaxies,so if ‘sinking funds’ feature heavily in your financial portfolio, well,you know what they say,get in early !!!

        ["Virgin Inter-Stellar" comps for all DMW subscribers!]

        Any and all threats of trademark infringements will be met with equal but opposite force,Sicilian style !

    • bonbon

      China’s Lunar Success “Moons” Obama!

      Barry O’Bama, now mooned, has made it a personal mission to destroy NASA.

      The rover, Yuto, will deploy, the first time since the 1970′s.

  46. Dorothy Jones

    Bloody hell, Asmussen has resigned from ECB, now will work for German Govt

  47. Over 300 comments, very impressive.

    I didn’t see the clueless muppet Enda Kenny’s ‘speech’ as my little girl was on Skype from the US and the latest episode of My Little Pony was far more important at the time.

    What did people think of it? I will watch a rerun and the Vincent Browne special at 10.30pm.

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