October 10, 2013

How 'smart' Budget could really boost our local economies

Posted in Euro · 186 comments ·

Imagine children’s allowance was paid not in cash but loaded on to a smart card that could only be spent in domestic shops and couldn’t be spent on certain items, such as cigarettes. Would that be a good idea?

And just in case you think this is an attack on children’s allowance with the insinuation that some people are spending it unwisely, why not include all sorts of tax credits and rebates that are the preserve of the better off?

Why not pay Section 23 relief not in cash or in a smaller tax bill but to calculate how much tax is saved and pay the rebate via a smart card that also has to be spent in the domestic economy rather than second houses in the Algarve?

In this way, both the rich and the average person’s spending would be harnessed in a way which would boost the local economy.

The smart cards could be an equal opportunity enhancer.

The domestic retail economy is in tatters. Most people are employed in small business in this country, so every extra cent spent in the local economy matters enormously.

In normal times, economists argue that the best policy is to leave everything alone and allow the free market to decide who should spend what, where and in what size. But these are not normal times.

The local economy is moribund. People are not spending but are saving whatever they have and the banks are not lending.

So why not incentivise people to spend their allowances and tax credits in the local economy?

By giving those benefiting from state allowances or tax breaks some sort of smart card rather than cash, spending behaviour could be changed dramatically. This could (a) boost the local economy, particularly retailing, and (b) might move money into more productive manufacturing rather than the normal “tax-shelter driven” areas, ie property, again.

Even within the confines of austerity, it is still possible to push the economy in certain directions and persuade people to spend money at home.

Unfortunately, the entire Budget discussion is framed by what is not possible rather than what might be possible even in the context of austerity.

This suggestion could make a very significant difference because there is so much slack in the economy. Economists refer to this slack as the “output gap”. It really refers to how much resources lie idle.

The best measure of this is unemployment. The more people that are unemployed, the greater the waste and the larger the economic impact of each individual spending decision. Economists refer to the impact of each decision as the multiplier. This means when I spend in a shop, the retailer gets my cash and then spends it somewhere else, and then the recipient of his cash spends it somewhere else and so on.

When the economy is on its knees, each new spending decision has a greater impact because it is not adding to spending that was already there, “topping up” so to speak, but it is truly spending what was not there before.

Despite these concepts, which go to the core of modern macro-economics, when I hear the Budget being discussed, all I hear is – amazingly – a conversation focused on the size of the Budget deficit. But the deficit is an outcome, a consequence. It is what falls out at the end after all the spending, all the taxes and all the revenues are totted up.

In this week of the Budget, let’s think about what

a national budget could actually do if you let your mind wander. Quite apart from using smart cards to divert spending in a certain way towards domestic consumption and the local economy, consider what the State itself could do if it bought local.

The Irish State is the biggest consumer in the economy by a long, long way. Therefore, the State can massage the economy in a variety of directions.

One of the ways the State can affect demand is by choosing to buy locally made produce rather than imports. It could not only buy local but could pay quicker than other creditors and, in so doing, it could act as a type of bank for its clients at a time when the banks are not offering working capital.

IF the State were to buy more produce locally and if it were to undertake to pay its bills in one week, rather than the customary three months’ credit terms in Ireland, we could have a source of liquidity in the economy which is now missing without having to extend one loan but by merely accelerating cash-flow turnover.

In normal times, this activist intervention might seem very heavy handed but we are not in normal times. We are in what is called a liquidity trap. This is an economic phenomenon whereby, even at very low to zero interest rates, people don’t want to spend and banks don’t want to lend. Thus without the Government getting involved, the economy is stuck.

The money from children’s allowances and tax credits is being recycled by the State anyway from one set of taxpayers to another, so why not decide to boost local employment by directing spending towards local retailers? If the State giveth, then surely it can directeth?

The retailers will employ more and pay more tax and the cycle will start again at a slightly higher level. Granted some of that money will obviously be spent on imports because we import significant amounts, but the local value added from our spending will be equally significant.

It is at times like this that we should think about what limited measures we can take rather than being fatalistic and suggest there is entirely nothing we can do other than kowtow to someone else’s agenda.

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  1. dermo

    The lulas in government do not understand capitals flows , they are the problem.We are seeing massive defaltion , with a shot of infaltion soon to become stagflation .Government is too expensive to run , they are borrowing with no intention of paying back .All we hear is the deficit the deficit when in fact it the rolling debt and interest thats going to maul us to death anyways .

    • of course there’s one other sure way to jump start economy give all OAPs €100 rise they could then retrofit there drafty houses and employ hundreds of builders it might even be self financing and certainly save Lives,

      • michaelcoughlan


        Do OAPs live in chicken houses near you?

        • what would you Mr coughlan as the keeper of all knowledge give a pensioner who worked 56 years to educate assholes Like you to talk Tripe on wordpress or other such sites,

          • michaelcoughlan

            You missed my point Completely. My point was ment to be jocular. I’d give pensioners €5000 per home to do the job from start to finish completely.

            I’ll overlook the expletive on this occasion as it seems you made a genuine error.



  2. whatamess

    primero “ignition”

    Some AMAZING news ,for a change !!!




    Science fiction makes a ‘quantum leap’ to science FACT !!welllll, a ‘milestone’ anyway…i will try contain my delight of this news !!
    a MILESTONE in producing an energy source that is producing MORE energy that what is consumed ! WOW!

    ITER – “International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor”
    A £13 billion construction project at ITER producing the world’s first commercially viable and energy-producing nuclear fusion reactor.



    the financial elite sure must feel threatened!! Great!!!!!
    let’s hope the oliagarchs dont get their greedy and grubby hands on this technology !!

    This collaboratin of MANY nations ought to be a contender for a Nobel Prize !!

    So it’s Hydrogen to the RESCUE!??

    we sure need the HELP !!

    150 million degrees C !!!! Phew!!!
    that’s HOT fusion baby :)

    GRAIL !!!!!

    of energy production anyw\ay

  3. 33square

    “IF the state were to buy more produce locally”

    I see that every postal address in the state will have a unique I’d by 2015. Why is it that the C(r)apita consortium will be implementing this? Why must successive Irish governments throw money down the drain paying for willfully incompetent software development? The government should be making its software requirements public. Universities and institutes of technology should be collaboratively developing open source solutions for said requirements. This could provide students with much needed work experience and result in secure, free software for the state.

    Perhaps someone should develop an open source collaborative governance platform, give it a party name and run for election. Now that would be true democracy in action… Progressive democracy even?

    • 33square

      Wait isn’t there a Facebook plugin for that? ;-)

    • crossroads


      Loomio – http://www.loomio.org – (Open source software)

      “Creating a world where it’s easy for anyone to participate in decisions that affect them.

      With the right collaborative process, groups generate better ideas, decisions and actions than any individual would by themselves.

      Loomio breaks down the barriers to participation in decision-making at every level: in neighbourhoods, community organisations, businesses, social movements, and local and national governance.

      Collaborative decision-making balances individual autonomy with the collective good.”

    • crossroads


      One more I came across recently…

      Liquid Feedback – http://liquidfeedback.org/ – (Open source software)

      Used by the German Pirate Party

      “LiquidFeedback is an open-source software, powering internet platforms for proposition development and decision making.

      LiquidFeedback is an independent open source project published under MIT license by the Public Software Group of Berlin, Germany. The developers of LiquidFeedback have joined together in the Interaktive Demokratie association to promote the use of electronic media for democratic processes.”

      • 33square

        Thanks again crossroads, you seem to have an interest in this stuff? An Irish pirate party perhaps? Those Germans know what they’re at, between this and the chaos computer club…

    • DB4545

      David you have to know better than this. What you’re suggesting is a rehash of the guaranteed irish campaign which was seen as a breach of EU law. Articles 34-36 Tfeu prohibit any measures which directly or indirectly discriminates against member states selling goods/services within the single market. There are exceptions (public health, state security etc.) but this is not one of them. A tax credit used in this manner may be seen as a state subsidy and will be challenged by other member states.

  4. Bamboo

    Can I compare these smart cards with sophisticated food coupons?
    Do you think there are sufficient numbers of people who spend benefits from state allowances or tax breaks so unwisely that we need to implement a new culture of control on domestic spending? Next step is Big Brother that is so widely implemented in Europe.

    I think Ireland doesn’t have the resources to control this. Next thing we Ireland is implementing a tax on foreign travel and holidays especially for the old OAPs.

    • p15574

      Given the new, multicultural Ireland – which is great – there must be a sizeable chunk of childrens allowance funds being sent out of the state, either because the children concerned don’t live here, or people just sending money back to their home countries. Surely it would be better to keep this money circulating in the Irish economy, as David suggests?

      • whatamess

        no David , i mean p15574 , that argument hold little water

        try ,within reason ,to avoid a system that can be greatly ‘abused’ sure, but again ,always give people the choice

        ” Surely it would be better ” that way !!including the scenario of people sending money to families outside the state!


  5. Adelaide

    Congrats David on the Kilkenomics line-up. World class. Looking forward to my first visit down there.

  6. Welfare recipients are to tie a bell around their necks. BOI to raise fees!

    To avoid the increased waiting times in LIDL and ALDI, ops, I meant Tesco and Dunnes Store, that occured after the implementation of the McWilliams proposal that was brought into law in November 2013, all welfare recipients now are to tie a bell around their necks when they go shopping, this way they can be more easily herded to a special check out place all stores are required to have in place by January 2014.

    Bank of Ireland announced a raise in costs for the special cards they were comissioned to provide for the recipients.

    Richie Boucher explained that due to the enormous amount of additional accounts to be served the fee would have to be raised to be able to cover the cost. As recipients are not able to pay for the additional cost, they will be enrolled automatically in a special credit agreement, without any need for their signature or approval. The costs for BoI are paid upfront for 5 years, the account holder/ welfare recipient will be charged a small daily fee with variable interest rates.

    • 33square

      Imagine you had banknotes that would only appear in your wallet when you went to an authorised store… That’s possible with a digital currency and its possible to implement it in such a way that nobody is any the wiser as to where the money comes from, so no Quasimodo effect :-)

      Do I support the idea of a cashless society? No… Is it happening before our eyes in slow motion? Yes

      • michaelcoughlan

        “Imagine you had banknotes that would only appear in your wallet when you went to an authorised store”

        That happens in reality you know. It’s thd US governments experience when they knock on the door of the FED.

        “and its possible to implement it in such a way that nobody is any the wiser as to where the money comes from, so no Quasimodo effect”

        Spot on!

        Truth is stranger than fiction.

  7. whatamess

    hey,life’s a game of inches and it ‘appears’ to be a worthwhile idea..

    it’s a real pity David that you didn’t give some actual figures to demonstrate how “every extra cent spent in the local economy matters enormously”.Then maybe we could be excited.

    David,you’re a non smoker then i’m guessing ? Good! your wish is to NOT give people the CHOICE to spend their entitlements ,as they wish..very nanny isn’t it? If such pontificating is the order of the day,let’s take others from the list,for example sugar rich foods and drinks? Sugar,aka “the white death” ,causes SO MUCH health problems!That’s REAL!

    • whatamess

      if u’ve 90 mins spare,check this out !!

      Dr Robin Carhart Harris on the use of psychedelics for successful treatment a range of mental health issues …from PTSB to Depression to Addiction ….SUB ‘trippy’ doses, i hasten to add, of psilocybin,the active ingredient of magic mushrooms’,banned from study for decades, NOW gives REAL hope to sufferers!


      and if youre not convinced ,check out Professor David Nutt’s interview ,againon “”London Real”podcast…


    • Whatamess

      Last time I cehcked it was called children’s allowance, not smokers alllowance! Regarding your second point, I hope the list you speak of becomes a reality too.

      Why not incentivize everyone to be healthy? Seems to make sense to me.



      • whatamess

        fair points David !

        We know that smokers will find a way , from whatever revenue streams they have available to them, to smoke ! factorama !

        i would not encourage smoking and steps to dissuade people from smoking are of course worthwhile,but there are many strategies to make that happen….cherry picking smokers and pontificating to this isolated group is unfair i feel …multi pronged is better and always giving people the CHOICE,is key !

        what’s the Gov’t tax on 20 Marlboro these days ?

      • 33square

        Agree with the sentiment of incentivising healthy lifestyle but then you run into the issue of who/what decides what is healthy. There would be insane conflicts of interest there. For example, Monsanto produce a GMO corn that “scientific studies” have proven is not harmful to your health. You’d create an incentive for companies to create sugar alternatives at the same pace as drug chemists supplying Olympic teams.

        I guess they already do incentivise for insurance premiums, but not at such a granular (ha) level

  8. hibernian56

    The whole thing falls down once you factor in the larger multiples. Tesco et al are only interested in extracting resources from whatever locality they are based, economic mining, extracting Euros for a few shinny trinkets and cheap booze.

    Tesco et al recycle very little of their turnover back into the local economy. Our “planners” and councils prefer Tesco etc because they pay huge rates, on time. Have you ever driven through a small town with abysmal roads to see a huge Tesco store and think “how?”.

    Tesco don’t need to bribe or stuff brown envelopes. The Local Authorities see them as a safe bet for servicing their pay and pensions. Decision made, not in our interests but in theirs (LA & Multiple). It’s an all too cosy and disturbing relationship. Soft corruption really.

    This is why Tesco call Ireland “Treasure Island”.

  9. joe hack

    Dev would be proud of you if only they had smart tech back in 1930s

    If you had opened with a smart card for tax evaders – Starbucks Google or Bono -and then moved on to smart cards for the plebs – people might be more on side with an old idea.

    Why do opinion writers generally talk about the change a budget just when the deal is done?

  10. TD’s to be included in new card system

    All expenses for TD’s are to be included as they come from the same public funds that are granted to welfare and other recipients.

    TD’s are now restricted to purchase only irish labeled goods, in particular alcohol, hookers, and tobacco.

    A call to ban these products was voted against in the Dail, as it was seen to undermine international standards of travelling politicians, however, it was agreed to restrict the goods and services to Irish brands and services only.

  11. New food and heating plan for Welfare card holders

    Labor TD Gilmore and Jamie Oliver published a new cook book for welfare card holders. The book was an enormous success and was sold out in 2 days. Government has brought into legslation 31 receipts that welfare card holder are able to chose from when they go shopping in their allowed areas.

    To further imrpove the waiting times at check outs, welfare card holders are to use the outlets only Monday, Tuesday and Thursday from 9AM-11AM. After that and on all other days the checkouts are closed.

    ESRI data has indicated that welfare card holders have a tendency to have their accomodation heated to a more than required level. It was suggested to use calibrated timers in their locations to restrict the use of heating oil and calibrate all accomodations to no more than 16 degress celsius during the winter time.

    • George

      Your comments suggest that you only read what you want to see. Did you not read that I suggested paying tax rebates for the wealthy with similar smart cards with similar conditions in the first bloody paragraph?



      • DPRK, North Korea to adopt Mc Williams Proposal

        To no ones surprise really North Korea adopted the McWilliams smart card to pay out tax rebates for the wealthy. Allowed purchases range from uranium depleted ammo over frags to tazers all produced exclusively in the DPRK. While APEC leaders warn on protectionism as it stifles opportunity and narrows the market the DPRK has announced that it will not allow purchases to be made by it’s citizens other than the goods allocated to them.

      • Bono to receive limited Platinum Mc Williams smart card!

        Paul David Hewson was rumored to have received a special limited platinum edition Mc Williams smart card. The platinum card allow for tax credits to be booked on Virgin Island, Cayman Islands, Togo, Luxemburg and Monaco and have no restrictions on purchases.

        ….Ok David, I shut up now. :P

      • redriversix

        Morning David

        How come you never respond to me..? My insecurities are going mad..does it mean I am unworthy or just so brilliant you agree with me..?

        Hate the way you love Adam,Georg & whatamess more than me…

        going to find teddy now & have a cigarette..PTSD is ragin this morning..

    • Purchasing Power Parity? NOT!

      Receipt No. 17: PPP

      No, this ain’t purchasing power parity but receipt No.17 of the Gilmore/Oliver welfare cookbook, Parsnip-Pee-Potato mash.

  12. McGoo

    As far as I can see, most people are spending every cent they have left after debt repayments in the local economy, but it’s just not enough to support all the retailers that set up in business during the boom years. I don’t see how a smartcard system would change that. Less debt (or fewer retailers) is the only thing that will change it.

    Also, practically everyone would so a deal with their friendly local struggling retailer to spend the smartcard money on whatever they wanted (ie. cigarettes) and have it put through the system as some approved item (ie. apples). Come on, you know they would. This is Ireland!

  13. Weekly alcohol and Drug test now mandatory

    In a move to counter welfare smart card fraud, every cardholder now has to particpate in a weekly Drug test. Failure to comply will result in cancellation of the cards.

    It was established that welfare card holders in rural areas show much higher THC levels compared with urban card holders. The lowest THC levels were found around Dublin, however, it was suggested that they just have a piss poor quality shit available with THC levels per gram as low as 0,024 %.

    In a further move to tackle welfare fraud voluntaries are asked to generate reports on known card holders, tracking their evry movements and sleeping habbits. The reports can be send anonymously to your local TD’s office.

  14. Adelaide

    Free labour, the ultimate stimulus.

    The government are providing free labour to the private sector and the public sector via Jobbridge. Really, how can that be bettered as a stimulus to the local economy? Plus, the competitive edge we have over our competitors, for the time being, as they’ll surely copycat our government’s initiative.

    The prevalent phenomena of an honest day’s wage for an honest day’s work is suffocating our economy.

  15. redriversix

    Look , this is all ridiculous….

    Why don’t we,as a Country INVADE somebody…!..to protect our National interest.?

    Bingo ! draft everybody on the dole…use Priests as Special advisors..Nuns as Special Forces

    Retired T.Ds & RTE1 for psychological warfare.We already have millions of Irish around the World we could use to our benefit

    We have a ample supply of Drones on Lyric FM

    We could set up An Haliburton Nua & put O’Leary in charge to gain access to natural resources around the World which are already linked to Ireland through History and a serious of underground caverns.

    This is MEGA..!!


    • We could declare war on Belgium and take it from there. Make da Bert Admiral of the fighting Irish AH64D squadron and Enda Kenny Homeland Securitisation Minister.

      • redriversix

        Belgium..Brilliant Georg

        do they have Setanta sports..?

        So the lads would have somethin to watch when they come back from maneuvers..?

        • redriversix

          WAIT..NOT THINKING….!

          We could bring Setanta sports to the free people of An Belgium Nua…!

          Silly me..

          • michaelcoughlan

            It’s Cuba we should invade. We could use lorries with guinness cannons in the vanguard and of Course the cubans would fire cigars at us.

            They would be a perfect candidate because like us they survived for years on transfers of money from a much bigger friend, Were able to totally destroy indigenous industry run by undesirables considdered a threat to the state for having the cheek to so, and had a ruling coitre cosseted in luxury for maintaining the status quo. Of course in order to ensure equality in society just like us they tell the best to fuck off to the great Satan because then everyone living at home is equal in the squallor and gutter everything has been dragged down into. But of course its all the Americans fault for blockading them you know always needing a scapegoat. Now who will we blame? Fuck me I know it’s the Saudis Arabians. Know why? Thry have taken the same policies to a much more refined fuck everyone except the king and his mates level and are showing up even thd cubans.

            Oh yes we should call ourselves
            eiteuba! But now that I think about it since the Saudi Arabians have their black stuff and we have ours it’s them we should invade!

    • 33square

      Uisce Dubh ;-)

    • redriversix

      AND AND AND !!!!!!! WE could use Jesuit priests as Jungle warfare specialists after all those years in AFRICA….

      bloody hell..I am on fire to today..

      ideas are just trippin of the tonque

      Any jungles in Belgium Georg ? fuck it doesn’t matter we will import some and use those figures in Belgium’s first Irish budget………..

      • redriversix

        Wait again…”We could call it the green economy…!!!

        Mcwilliams…hope your writing this down

        this is amazing stuff……

        Wonder what the name of this new pain medication is..?

        fcukin great stuff..free’s your mind..!!.

  16. redriversix

    I see the importance of education is being brought to the forefront again as I passed My old School the other day I noticed lots of construction going on

    Monkstown C.B.C..well.thats what it was called then,sure its still the same..without maybe the Christian Brothers..of course.

    What a fine detention Center it was too..oh how we laughed and jumped & ran & skipped…Those Christian Brothers were such fun guys to be around always looking out for you,……..

    making sure when they hammered you with the leather strap that the marks never showed..such considerate people.

    Yes,Yes …do not be surprised..I had the benefit of a private education in the Seventies

    I will have you know I was beaten by some of the finest minds the Country had to offer..

    Oh Happy days

    p.s..they used to call me a smart arse..does that mean I was the forerunner to the smart card & smart phone..?

    Anyway..I digress

    • whatamess

      “What a fine detention Center it was too..oh how we laughed and jumped & ran & skipped…”

      i’m still laughing !!!

    • Ryu Hayabusa

      Lots of us were tutored and schooled by the Christian Brothers! Happy days is right… Smartarse was a term they tripped out with quite often, prob. because the lads arses would be smarting after a good leddering! I hasten to add I refer to those hidings involving a ruler or strap and not the more nefarious ways they could make a lad’s arse smart!
      At least those were the ones I witnessed once or twice in any event.

      But if you played rugby you were sorted. Special treatment all the way. “No homework, no problem” “missed a few days.. ,Ah sure these things happen”

      As an aside,
      It’s amazing on this forum how a topic can go off at a tangent at the drop of a hat… but then that’s all part of the cut&thrust.

      Hope you came out the other end of it alright anyway! Still kicking…

  17. Ireland to adopt new currency for McW smart cards, the Merkel-Mark

    from January 2014 on McW card holders are paid in Merkel-Marks. In a move to avoid further distortion of money markets and convoluted activities of FOREX traders Ireland has adopted a new currency for welfare card holders.

    With this move only a select set of stores and service providers can be paid in Merkel Mark such as the new Merkl-ALDI and Merkel-LIDL. This way it will be impossible to purchase a pack of fags and have the shop owner book potatos, as the shops will not hold goods such as alcohol, tobaco iTunes cards or Playboy magazines at all.

    Regular shops will refuse entry to McW card holders and failure to comply will be severely punished by law.

    With this new legislation all McW card holders are also required to relinquish their iPhones, iPods, iPads, Androids, DSLR cameras, xbox, playstation and other non essential items to their respective social wellfare office.

  18. 5Fingers

    David, the idea of managing behaviors is not new. The wacky number plate system to make cars look old, the bin recycling etc etc. But I think the idea of policing exactly what you spend on what (for whatever altruistic reason)runs the danger of creating and eventually embedding a system that is too centrally controlled and too open to temptation in a variety of other ways.

    I am sure someone has a quotation for it somewhere, something like the best form or government is one where the lunatics at the top cannot do too much damage simply because it is generally incompetent but generally tolerated. Probably Churchill’s definition of democracy is the worse form of government apart from all the rest might best sum it up. Mixing hi tech with a resulting processed streamlined bureaucracy and a looney cabinet at the top (run from Europe) does not bear thinking about.

    I have always respected the economist view as a sound explanation of events of the past – up until around 2000s. It was a simple and relatively disconnected world where no one entity could cause too much trouble or disruption. There was a very reasonable rationale of supply and demand ultimately based on a statistical ebb and flow of what people do and how governments and companies nudged things in a messy competitive environment to derive other ideas of how wealth would build or be destroyed. From 2000s onwards, economic “thinking” seems to have been left behind by the new tools available to organizations that can remove most statistical/ random effects to direct how they want the world to run. The SMART card is one such tool. When you remove randomising effects of competition (The biggest guys with the biggest coverage can now direct the footfall based on a myriad of metrics -put there for your own good in your smart card), you remove diversification and when that happens, you have everyone eating out of the same (TESCO, etc) bin and when that happens, you have completed a winner take all scenario with everyone dependent on the one source…and dispensed with democracy and created a single point of failure.

    Fundamentally worrying though is herding effect of the hype and sensationalism that surrounds what is or is not good for us. All of it is prioritized by the fame of the individuals doing the hyping who use our modern tools to capture a world audience. Indeed you lament the fact that Ireland lacks its quota of fame generators such as Bono and co. The last thing we need is someone herding us all into the corral of a “good for you & country” smart card.

    Economists simply do not get what is happening right now. They have no concept of just how powerful and tempting the allure and ease of centralizing “for the benefit of all – as it will be told” will lead to a catastrophe.

    • 33square

      What’s good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. People deserve the liberty to decide what is good or otherwise for themselves. This does however put responsibility on each individual to accept the errors (if any) of their ways. Unfortunately it seems some people expect a safety net not of their own creation.

      Centralised power and control has many possible benefits. However, once such a system is in place, all you need is one lunatic to turn the world to shit.

      • whatamess


        “People deserve the liberty to decide what is good or otherwise for themselves. This does however put responsibility on each individual to accept the errors (if any) of their ways”

        Backround to this clip below:Denis Hopper is being interrogated by some Sicilian gangsters,headed by Christopher Walken.Hopper is not gonna share the whereabouts of his son and facing torture and certain death,he even then, has a CHOICE

        10mins short and a CLASSIC!!!!!!!!!


        • DB4545

          There’s always a different way whatamess and that different way will be our way out. The US Military conducted a wargames exercise that cost 250 million US dollars in 2002 called Millenium Challenge. It was intended to validate a US policy direction towards network-centric warfare. The reasoning was that superior computer “systems” managing warfare would overwhelm any enemy. They put a gentleman called Paul K. Van Riper in charge of the “enemy” forces. The result was a defeat of US forces comparable to pearl harbour. Leadership and creativity will outwit any technology. That’s the lesson of history. We will eventually start making the RIGHT choices.

          • whatamess

            “We will eventually start making the RIGHT choices.”

            tick …tick… tick… tick… tick… tick …tick

            we can’t wait tho …

            until we have ‘evolved’ to “Q” level of consciousness (of Star Trek fame)lol ,i seriously worry ….

            The ITER news , although it wont make an impact for maybe 10 years, but may then,very well catapult us forward in ways we can’t see now!! game changer for the human species!

            i hope in the meantime “The Borg” don’t “assimilate” us !!!!!!!!!


            i sure hope uve watched star trek DB45?

          • whatamess

            in the meantime,it’s better to have a gun and not need it,that need a gun and not have it ;)

          • whatamess

            BTW the Borg above ,are the financial ‘elite’ raping our resources

          • whatamess

            im reading about The Millenium Challenge
            and network centric warfare and its very interesting.

  19. Adelaide

    Protest is Futile. They’ll wait a while and then get you.

    “Five men and two teenagers arrested over violent incidents outside the Dáil in September”


    Phew! They are Extremists. What a Relief! For a moment there I thought they had nabbed ordinary citizens.

  20. AnChlairAbu

    What about some VAT-deducting cards for visitors to receive at the borders/airports? Make Ireland a cheaper place to come and visit? (Get all the friendly Americans to buy us 50-cent pints ;) )

  21. David your suggestions make a lot of sense but will fall on deaf ears. do you remember the timony armored car invented in trinity collage I think it was in early 80s was it garret Fitzgerald said something about us not making offensive weapons the patent was sold I think to Belgium for 350 punts and a few years after we bought the production line Armored car for the Irish army for well over 1/12 million each I remember saying to friends on our way to London looking for work the mindset of the Irish elite will never change. all they want here is a skeleton staff to serve the tourist + intel an a few pill factory’s . just yesterday Irish govt with half a million idle hired a Welshman as the new ombudsman nothing has changed. to think Belgium the size of Munster could produce that armored car an make a fortune vexes me, since then Irish steel sugar gas oil esb shipping etc etc have all gone Yes David think outside the box when do we start????,

    • DB4545

      Michael you may be on to something there but first some clarification. The new ombudsman is a guy called Peter Tyndall who is in fact Irish born so we have an emigrant home. However that mindset is how nepotism and cronyism thrives in this country and is part of the reason we got into this mess.
      The other mindset which does us no good is the high moral ground taken by some of our elites in relation to “defence industries” and your reference to the Timoney armoured car is a good example. We are deeply embedded in defence industries particularly in IT companies.
      We have opportunities to develop the light engineering sectors in this area using skills already available in the Pharma and Medical sectors.I think we could add thousands of high value light engineering jobs ( toolmakers, fitters, welders, mechanical and electrical engineers etc.) and soak up unemployment for people with these skill sets. If you examine the value of these industries to the economies of countries like Sweden,
      Denmark, The Czech Republic, Switzerland, Israel etc. it has to make sense.

    • whatamess


      tourist + intel an a few pill factory’s …

      but that’s Ireland Inc’s offerings….

      and another selling arm for the Cayman islands

      disenchanting is the only adjective that springs to mind

  22. btw. My “Kilcenommics smiel attack” from this morning aside… If you think the idea about a labor politician writing a best selling cook book for welfare recipients with a title like “cooking without meat” is a just hung over joke that daunted me this morning, you are mistaken.

    Back in 2008 in Merkel Land, a labor member and more than controversial Politician due to his otherwise repeatedly xenophobic remarks on citizens not from Germany publsihed exactly this, the first Hartz 4 cookbook, by Thilo Sarazin.

    Another politician before suggested a shopping list, where and what unemployed should be allowed to buy theird daily goods.

    Sometimes, sarkasm and reality are closer than you might think.


  23. michaelcoughlan

    “Imagine children’s allowance was paid not in cash but loaded on to a smart card that could only be spent in domestic shops and couldn’t be spent on certain items, such as cigarettes. Would that be a good idea?”

    No chance. This article is So idiotic I don’t know who I’m more fucked off with; myself for bothering to respond or you for insulting the intelligence of the people on the board. In fact I’m so wound up right now I find I will only be able to respond piece meal,

    First piece; in a country as totally and utterly fucked as this one by Government interventions and treasonable policy decisions are you seriously suggesting EVEN MORE government interference in the Economy and society? Maybe you think centre left arguments like your article are morally more “right” than those which went previously? If this is the best you can do then I just don’t know what to think. Don’t respond if your are thinking to do so untill I have added more pieces to this post.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Next piece David,

      Aib is 99% owned by the state. The state imposed a 500k salary cap on the bank which had been ignored. Since the state is the employer AIB management have disobeyed their employer AND have commited treason. Why don’t the state FIRE the culprits and try them before a court for treason and give payments above 500k PA to the lowest paid staff members with one provisio. The simply must go on the piss.

      Will this happen? no chance.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Next piece David.

      How will a tax rebate smart card system be paid for? Oh deary me David. More taxes!

    • michaelcoughlan

      Next piece David.

      If you have a centre left political outlook why don’t you ring Your neighbour In Dalky and remind him that under the artists tax laws he had it great and since he moved his holding company to holland could he not bring himself to spare a million or two for a “voluntary tax” fund to save the taxpayers the administrative costs of collecting the tax and send a few quid to the schools who were stripped of their special needs teachers to hire one. No cost to the state and extra spend in the economy.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Next piece David.

      Any chance you would use your influence especially if centre left to ask the tax exile companies in the IFSC to spare a few quid for the voluntary tax fund? ESPECIALLY since many of them are paying negligible tax!

    • joe hack

      Have a smoke it might clam you down…

    • michaelcoughlan

      Next piece David.

      “The retailers will employ more and pay more tax and the cycle will start again at a slightly higher level. ”

      That statement is probably the most stupid part of the article. Retailers retail. They don’t produce anything. Since they don’t produce anything how in blue blazes do you expect the cycle to start over higher?

      If the cycle is higher it’s because the savings of the customers is reduced and dwindling. Taxes are increasing again David.

      You really will have to do better next time.

      • whatamess

        I’ll answer that question

        You want answers Michael ??!!!!!!!!!

        I have a greater responsibility on this blog than you could possibly fathom !!You weep for Tony Brogan and you curse Bonbon and my existence here it seems, is grotesque and incomprehensible to you ! You don’t want the truth ,coz deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you WANT me on this blog…you NEED me on this blog !!!


        4mins short

        it’s the weeeeeekend ! Yeeeeeeee haaww!

        have a good one Michael

  24. michaelcoughlan

    Next piece David.

    Any chance you’d ask the government for a vat rebate on purchases above a certain threshold of vital items for stressed out citizens whilst simultaneously organising a shopping blitz for a short time say in the RDS for a weekdnd in a month when retail sales are slow to encourage FREE citizens to part with their cash but get value in return?

  25. joe hack

    D.MW suggests smoking should be only illegal if you unemployed everyone else can smoke – I wonder if hash was legal would it be a valid purchase on the ‘smart card’- the anti vice card.

  26. joe hack

    I see the following on the bottom of an add for AIB: “AIB is regulated by the central bank – terms and conditions apply” this now certainly has many new connotations than it before 2007?

  27. joe hack

    ‘Green Card’- the healthy card:

    With the issue of this new card the unemployed will be guaranteed a healthy lifestyle – ‘five a day’ – celery, cabbage, turnips, parsnips and when in season a crab apple for desert all of this can be washed down with nutrient fortified Liffey valley water. your government is also offering holders of the Green Card an opportunity to work for free, as an incentive and to improve productivity your government will increase the amount unpaid work to those that don’t eat or over indulge, in particularly those that restrain themselves from eating the desert therefore for those that return their uneaten desert your government will guarantee an extra hour of unpaid overtime per day at job-bridge.


    This offer only applies to crab apples with no bites taken out the apples must be retuned before the beginning each working week this means those who partake in this scheme will have to wait at least one full week before availing the extra unpaid work. To avail of this offer all seven crab apples from the week before must be returned before start of work on Monday. Those that return less than seven or for example those that return only six apples with a bite taken out of the seventh or a damaged apple will not be eligible for unpaid overtime.

    Is mise le meas
    Your caring government

    • whatamess

      “This offer only applies to crab apples with no bites taken out the apples must be retuned before the beginning each working..”


  28. joe hack

    The smart card with flying glass steagalls as a logo. sweet!

  29. cooldude

    interesting article David. Having taken some hits on your Bono piece you come straight back with a big government piece about if only “government ‘ was better ‘society’ would be a whole lot better. Sorry wrong again but a theme is definitely evolving on this thread and it revolves around big government and the benefits of the corporate elite like Monsanto etc. Well I am sorry amigo but lots of people around here have seen through this charade of crony/capitalist/neofascist bullshit which you are consistently expousing. You consistently have maintained that the US is in ” recovery” despite every real economic indicator showing the exact opposite. How is the decision for Wallmart to completely get rid of full time employees a sign of economic progress. It isn’t and it is a sign of the society we are heading into and which you seem to FULLY support. A society dominated by the banker elite who own the corporations who tell the politicians what they want. These guys dont give a fuck about poor Africans or poor anyone else they only care about themselves and they control the media and they control you my friend, This article is mainly about an introduction to a cashless society which has always been a goal of the banker elite. You always cloak your aims with some dubious social goal like cutting out smoking. David you have sold out and are now a full time employee of the global corporate elite. I am sure you will be well rewarded for your work.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Just a tad conspiratorial BUT some excellent insights especially your observation re US in recovery.

      In that regard alone your points of view McWilliams are a joke. It’s the same for the UK by the way. In 1990 I worked as a labourer in London and was paid £71 per day. A 1bed apt was 50k to 80k. The labourers are paid in 2013 £70 per day and 1be 1 bed apts are £250k to £400k.

      5 years ago McWilliams my mum had a hackney service in Ireland. She was paying €0.95c litre. Now it’s €1.55 which is 10% per year inflation!

      Walmart by the way is where Michael O’Leary will take Ryanair not literally but metaphorically. If he could charge the staff for the honour of working there he will.
      Why because he knows so long as shareholders see the value rising they will back him even though he is growing his business by CONSUMING Irish siciety instead of contributing to it just like a CANCER consumes it’s patient

      Rant over.

      • DB4545

        Michaelcoughlan I worked in the building industry in London around that time. Hourly rates for skilled trades in 2013 are at the same rate they were in 1996. We may have been lucky in that we weren’t competing with the wave of Eastern Europeans that hit London and I had a good lifestyle there. I don’t know how anyone is coping with those 2013 pay rates when everything else (housing, food, petrol etc.) is now a multiple of pay rates in the 90′s.
        I’ve mentioned before about the Soviet block providing a balance against tooth and claw free market capitalism. It didn’t really do much for people living in the Soviet block but people in Western Europe had a high standard of living. It think with the threat of communism gone that balance has been swept away and a race to the bottom is underway.
        I think we are in very dangerous territory if we go to extremes in which people have little or nothing to lose. It makes the conditions ripe for some charismatic lunatic peddling crazy religious or economic ideology and offering people false hope. I don’t know if global interests see this coming and don’t care because they see a profit in war and chaos anyway.

        • michaelcoughlan

          War IS the most profitable business there Is AND especially necessary when your are as over leveraged as the US and the UK. We are competing with the eastern European labour here as Bertie had an open doors policy. Before anyone accuses me of being racist I think they way the people who come to work here are being treated is a DISGRACE.

          Thanks for your observations which corroborate mine.

  30. Red Cross European Poverty Report speaks of 46 million living from food handouts

    According to their findings, from 2009-2012 they registered a 75% increase of people in need of food handouts throughout Europe. Around 120 million are endangered of poverty.

    Now add to that the 15% US ciizens, round about the same with 49 million on food stamps, and relax when you hear economists the next time speak of green shoots, end of recession, etc.

    Report: http://www.ifrc.org/PageFiles/134339/1260300-Economic%20crisis%20Report_EN_LR.pdf

    • Which reminds me to a trip to Dublin airport back in 2009 on an early sundaqy morning, back in the days when this mockery of a politician, Biffo, was in the chair.

      His budget jibber went over the airwaves when Is saw this man?/woman? n a very distinct place, so I took a snap.


      • whatamess

        we see the destruction all around us

        I have dogs whose ‘instinct’ to anticipate for example danger,is mind-boggling ! Almost ‘psychic’ …i shit you not,but please don’t ask me to provide scientific evidence of that ;)

        Us humans are so much more complex and so much more ‘conscious’,that it surprises me that we are ALL not more afraid of impending doom…

        where’s the sentience yunno??

        the danger signs are all around us !


    • whatamess

      …”the poor getting poorer!!!”

      damn right!

      it’ll take a few days to read ,but thanks for posting “Think Differently”

    • whatamess

      …”the poor getting poorer!!!”

      damn right!

      it’ll take a few days to read ,but thanks for posting “Think Differently”

  31. redriversix

    Good Morning ladies & Gentleman

    Well…As we have now come to the end of another insightful Article..we have time to ponder our remarks and think about how it could have been……….

    Another day in Court yesterday…watching helplessly as more repossession orders handed down to people who were trying to do a deal….

    Another day were arguments were overruled and judgements handed down while banking Barristers try not to look gleeful……

    These people,again were not strategic defaulters & were looking for some kind of deal…..not abdictating any responsibility..just trying to get on with life..but our Courts ruled against that…….

    So if my posts are satirical and people find them funny or get to crack a smile..at least something was accomplished over the last few days

    Cos it sure isn’t funny in the Four Courts…

    Keep smiling,look after yourself & your family..stick with the Winners & stay away from fuckwits…

    Have a great friday

    Remember , today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday..


  32. paddythepig

    We are not in a liquidity trap. We are in a productivity trap.

  33. 5Fingers

    Big government? I see nothing wrong it at all. Loads of public representatives who can influence things? Great. Smart cards which are deployed and controlled at country council level who can keep the cash they get from same. Local representation, Local spend and with smartcards using local talent to deploy based on guidelines from a small central government. By the way…this is how Sweden, Finland, France (very strong Majors) …. and to a large extent… China!! works. All have very well talented council structures that take the heat locally.

    What is problematic is Big CENTRAL government where people’s sense of representation is non-existent – e.g. Ireland and USA.

    There is a total disconnect between the Dail and rest of the people. It is too easy to influence with lobbyists and its answerability is practcally zero.

  34. Will Francis


    What you are proposing amounts to a paralell currency. As we are in a currency union, we cannot devalue our currency and we can’t print money. Our taxation policy is the only tool left. We can’t break the rules of the currency union but we can certainly bend them. A system of domestically transferable tax credits could conceivably alleviate the current liquidity problems in our economy. I had the same idea about 3 years ago…

    • whatamess

      not putting you on the spot Will,but “alleviate” by how much ???

      any range ??

      i remarked earlier that the lack of figures in this article makes it difficult to grasp and put these ‘pondering the imponderables’ in perspective ….sometimes that’s a tough task ,but our host must have lotsa data like that …so one might think anyway,in fact presume in my case ??

    • whatamess

      infinitely ?!


      I thought the news of ITER – “International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor” was one to be ‘beat’….even Homer nodded eh

      Any worthwhile links you might offer to expand on this strategy ?

      and what are the barriers Will??

      thanks Will in advance


  35. whatamess

    infinitely ?!


    I thought the news of ITER – “International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor” was one to be ‘beat’….even Homer nodded eh

    Any worthwhile links you might offer to expand on this strategy ?

    thanks Will in advance

  36. bonbon

    The lineup for Kilenomics matches the blog alright :

    One More Thing: The cat laughs as Kilkenomics gets ready to roll into town (IT today).

    There ye can meet old Milton Friedman Chicago Boys and Girls, Deirdre and Donald, and discuss “econmics”. Even Fintan Drury the sports commentator Director of Anglo Irish Bank will be at the Theater.

    But the big draw will surely be Dan Ariely, the top US behavioural economist and Wall Street Journal writer.

    Cripes, this makes the EU council’s look sane, boys and girls.

  37. bonbon

    Probably not on the Kilkenomics program :

    All The World’s A Mine

    Part of a series of short videos illustrating the nuclear NAWAPA XXI, Gateway to the Fusion Economy.

    NIF (Livermore’s laser fusion program) and ITER (near Bordeaux) are only the 2 best known large efforts.

    • michaelcoughlan


      This post is interesting and topical but useless as tits on a bull.

      What point do you make re fusion? Will the Irish govt spend a trillion euros on an untried technology like fusion establishing a facility here in Ireland?

      There is however a way we can harness the power of fusion at zero cost bonbon. The entity who created the fusion process was so loving and benovelent he gives away the energy for free. I am of course talking about god and the sun.

      We can go into our gardens and plant a
      line of winter kale. A much better way to harness the power of fusion I’d say.

      • bonbon

        Fire, what fusion is all about, is unique to man – no animal ever or could mastered it. Sunlight has been used for over 500 million years. Why did that happen – the previous life forms were quite “happy”?. Life totally then changed the planet. We mastered fire, and in jumps to higher and higher flux densities now about to harness fusion. And this is the best way to provide water for desertification areas. Much more tasty plants can then be farmed. Moving very large amounts of water and desalination is a huge gift to the biosphere. Greening the Great American Desert, Gobi, Chad, and the Oasis Plan for South West Asia are urgently needed.

        And mastery of such fire changes economics totally.

        • michaelcoughlan

          Keep building castles (flux capacitors) in the sky bonbon.



          • whatamess

            Heraclitus is still complaining that ” much learning does not teach nous “

          • michaelcoughlan

            Did no one ever tell you that the poet simonides declared that only god has the ultimate privilege of the full capacity of the principles of explanation referring to Aristotle’s work metaphysics?

            Now apply that insight to your mate bonbon. Since he too has been created by god his work is nether perfect of privileged. In fact it makes a nonsense of all his posts as they are written by a person unable to understand the fact that he too is imperfect and consequently his posts are also. In his case He doesn’t even begin to try to understand this observation. 

            Thanks for your post. It gives me the opportunity to continue to highlight the madness going on.


          • whatamess

            if you really want an insight into whatamess’ thinking on this stuff anyway,as i can’t speak for my ‘friend’? maybe read this some time…..willis harmann’s global mind change

            that doesn’t mean,go and google reviews on the book….You’re clearly a reader,so with an open enquiring mind ,read it …it won’t be a waste of your time Michael

            just a suggestion my man…

            “Be careful whose advice you buy but be patient with those who supply it…
            advice is form of nostalgia…dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal,wiping it off,painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than its worth ”



            7 mins short

            and please Michael,wear sunscreen ;)

          • michaelcoughlan

            Thanks very very much on the book recommendation. A lightbulb went off in mh head when I read the review. I have ordered a copy.

            Sincere regards,


          • whatamess

            you’re very welcome..
            it’ll expand the mind…it did for me anyway

            and check out

            it’s is a v.worthwhile read before your book arrives.That was Bonbon sharing with you yunno !!

            seek the seeker,but don’t seek what the seeker seeks

            Bonbon is a seeker

            so is Tony Brogan

            av a good week, innit

  38. bonbon

    A Royal Proclamation, incentivising European style :

    Dutch King Proclaims End of ‘Welfare State’. A participation society, with Euthanasia on the rise.

    And the version from Wall Street :

    Bankster Mouthpiece Comes Out as Nazi: We Have A Crisis Because People Are Living Too Long.
    From American Banking Association (ABA) president Frank Keating, otherwise known for being an active and outspoken opponent of Glass Steagall.

    The so-called US shutdown is turning into a “deal” on cutting life expectancy, for the 90% of course.

    So it’s all cleared up then for Kilken”economists”.

    • whatamess

      that’s jaw dropping news !!

      beyond ‘belief’ , but nevertheless REAL !!!

      KNOW YOUR ENEMY and what they are capable of !!!!

      “Dutch King Willem-Alexander, in his first Throne Speech, made a killer proclamation to his kingdom, that the welfare state is NOW OVER ; the “participation society” is henceforth in effect!”

      • whatamess

        Willem-Alexander singled out that medical care for the chronically ill and such practices to prolong life, are NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE. “The shift to a ‘participation society’ is especally visible in social security and long-term care. The classic welfare state of the second half of the 20th century in these areas in particular, brought forth arrangements that are unsustainable in their current form.”

        The irony of His Royal Self’s rhetoric on being independent, is dramatized by the fact that he gets an annual salary of $1.1 million, as well as having the state pay for keeping up his living circumstances—castles, parades and all, costing 100 million euros.


        “To give his first annual Throne Speech—the day the national budget was released—the King rode in a gilded, horse-drawn carriage…”

        The contrast is blinding but the INTENT , now in the OPEN is for ALL to see !!!!!!!!

        • whatamess

          no feedback ???

          sentience ????






          • Ryu Hayabusa

            Sorry me ol’ china just came online..

            Yessir right away sir.

            Well It’s quite mad, they’re not even trying to hide the ‘intent’ as you say!
            Maybe his royalness’s middle name is Lakutus..

            I am Lakutus of Borg… by way of WillemII. you will assimilate into the collective but retain your ‘pot’ priviliges.

            The guy is a bigger lugnuts than Charles Vindsor.
            Did he ever hear of one Louis XVI?

            Obviously the exalted one will accord ‘the rabble’ a phasing out period before they must vacate this mortal coil.. he’s not totally without heart surely?

          • Ryu Hayabusa

            Now we know why Reilly wants to base the new &improved HSE to some extent on the dutch model.

            Willy-Alexy just blew his cover big-time!!!

            Can not do discretionary Medical Cards…

            Discretionary euthanasia, “ah sure i’m sure we can work something out!” Please step into my office errr ‘Chambre du gaz’ Sitting comfortably!? Zen let us begin….

            It’s like scaling up the old extractions before fillings template…

            We just gotta think bigger. . .

            Gulp. NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN!!! OR WOMEN!!!

          • whatamess

            “Where were you Mav?????”

            ” you Never ,leave your wing-man!” :)

          • whatamess

            ” a phasing out period ” –

            lovely turn of phrase!

            ‘Chambre du gaz’ Sitting comfortably!? Zen let us begin …superb

            reminded me of this :


            and let’s not forget

            “i know who you are !!!!”
            “i know who you are !!!!”
            “i know who you are !!!!”



  39. bonbon

    Considering the Royal Proclamation above :

    Google enjoy a very tasty “Dutch Sandwich” paying €8.6bn in royalties to a Dutch subsidiary last year, then shifted to Bermuda, a tax rate of 5pc not 12.5pc, paying just €17m on revenue of €15.5bn, recording a pre-tax profit of just €137m here for 2012.

  40. 500,000 Irish Welfare-Neck-Tie-Bells To be Delivered By German Government!

    In a surprising development, Angela Merkel agreed to ship 500,000 NTB’s to the Irish government at no cost. A speaker for Enda Kenny welcomed this gift and emphasized the friendship and excellent realtionships to Germany.

    The NTB’s are prodced by Rheinmetall AG a defense contractor with a superb reputation.

    There are multifold benefits from the german produce NTB’s, here in particular:

    1. Tracking masses of unemployed people on the streets is more easy because they will move at a considerable slower pace than the average citizen.

    2. Benefits for long term unemployed: Quick death by drowning in Rivers.

    There will be a selection of colors to chose from, the standard NTB will be in a Nickel~ish green color.

    The NTB will be delivered by German Parcel Service to every unemployed citizen in Ireland, currently around 413,000 but 500,000 will be produced in anticipation.

    The NTB weighs 0.475 tons and comes with a strong velcro that can be easily adjusted to different neck sizes.

    • Now life devalues day by day
      As friends and neighbours turn away
      And there’s a change that, even with regret, cannot be undone

      Now frontiers shift like desert sands
      While nations wash their bloodied hands
      Of loyalty, of history, in shades of gray

      Pink Floyd-The Division Bell

    • bonbon

      And it turned out they were used, recycled, from the Hartz IV who fell off the lists. Green euronomics at welfare-to-work.

  41. joe hack

    The ‘beardy’ JOSEPH STIGLITZ: Writes the following this week:


    In comparison David McWilliams wants to pillory those who are unemployed – a feelgood factor- to point the finger of blame at somebody – void of real solutions.

    • bonbon

      Huffington Post :
      Joseph Stiglitz: Wall Street’s Lobbying Efforts Have ‘Really Paid Off’

      07/02/2012 “As for their political investments, Stiglitz told CNBC that it was banks that pushed for the 1999 repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act. They have also been lobbying against financial reform, which is the single most pressing issues facing the world’s economy, he said.”

      There is no way DMcW is not aware of this. Instead he dances to the tune of animal economics of the Behaviorists like Dan Ariely.

      Do not monkey with economics! It is a very bad idea to monkey with the Irish.

      • joe hack

        He at least points to one of the major problems that caused the livelihoods of tens of millions and the deaths of many others – a cure and not a Band-Aid – now that the band-aid jar is near empty it seems from the above opinion writer that it’s time pen the hate blame at the sufferers and not the virus.

        At least some are conscious of the outcome publishing their inner thoughts not that it makes there thoughts any less concerning but they appear to be aware of the consequences.

        • whatamess

          “The global financial crisis, which brought such havoc on the global economy, as a result of the failure of the US to manage its financial system, is the example par excellence.”

          sums it up really

          great post

  42. bonbon

    DMcW gives his game away with “Even within the confines of austerity, it is still possible to push the economy in certain directions and persuade people to spend money at home.
    Unfortunately, the entire Budget discussion is framed by what is not possible rather than what might be possible even in the context of austerity.”

    Look at the Wiki Behavioral Economics, Kilkenomics invited speaker Dan Ariel’s specialty, for “The animal as Human analog”. A neat trick to avoid simply saying the economics of animals – further down “Monkey Trading”.

    From this bestiary “economists” are to nudge and “persuade” citizens?

    We are but the thickness of an Euro bill from heaving this bestiary.

  43. whatamess

    “Before Wall Street took a bazooka loaded with credit default swaps and toxic mortgage securitizations and fired it directly at the heart of the U.S. economy, we had a very stable banking system. In the five years before the 2008 crash, only 10 banks failed in the United States. Let me repeat that: ten banks went belly up in the entire period between January 2003 through December 2007.

    Since January 2008 through today, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation shows 487 banks have failed, with 22 failures just so far this year. With an average of two bank failures per year in the five years before the crash, that means banks are still failing at 10 times the pre-crash rate. But the numbers get worse from there.”

    and “what was Janet Yellen thinking one year before the crash??? ”

    “CLOs—collateralized loan obligations that package business loans—and a variety of associated derivatives, such as credit default swaps and indices based on such swaps. These instruments are obviously very complex, which makes them difficult to understand and evaluate, not only for the average investor, but even for sophisticated investors. In particular, it is difficult to determine the risk embedded in these instruments and how to price them.”

    and ” …awareness of the uncertainty surrounding the risk characteristics of many of these instruments.” ….

    instruments, indeed!!

    instruments of bloody destruction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    agus gan focial d’einne maidir le rialachan airgeadais!


  44. whatamess

    Palm Martens again here:


    “A bipartisan group of Senators, including Elizabeth Warren and John McCain, have introduced legislation to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act, which would remove insured deposits from the Wall Street gambling casino. If President Obama genuinely cares about the kind of society he will leave as his legacy to his two young daughters, he will remove his blinders and get behind this legislation.”

  45. whatamess

    part 2 of George Stephanopoulos interview with O’Bama on ABC’s ,”This Week”


    12mins short

  46. joe hack

    Those that talk about the unemployed as if they are the cause and not a symptom of negligence need to be put in their place this is a shameful piece of work,a kick in the hart to those men woman and children that are suffering from the negligence and moral criminality by those with duty of care.

    This is act treason on a nation by people with a seared concision or none – an emboli virus injected into human decency.

    • bonbon

      That’s what we are up against. See the Royal Proclamation above – the new Dutch King has declared the old and infirm, exactly as the ABA’s Keating, are the cause of the financial disaster, and must be incentivized to live less, to 60 or 65 maybe.

      Obama is right this moment selling out the US – the “deal”, meaning literally the Nazi T4 “useless eaters” and “lives not worthy of living” policy of 1939. This is why Obama grew a moustache !!

  47. whatamess


    It’s been 18 months or so ago when i discovered DMW’s blog.You and I had an exchange waay back then and you replied to my post regarding the nuclear NAWAPA XXI, a ‘gateway’ to the Fusion Economy and GS too might may have got a mention ;)You replied by saying along the lines of “whatamess,give the young people their hands and minds on mega projects like NAWAPA XXI and anything is possible”…

    I didn’t give that exchange one more thought after that night, 18 months ago.

    Then recently however, i was the ‘guest’ of a guest,so to speak, at a very prestigious University and spent the weekend with 15 students age 17 to 22.(This was not the norm for me!) These students in question were not students of economics,but in their given academic disciplines,they were some of the VERY VERY brightest!!!

    well these young adults shared their thoughts of the future …. 15 x 1 hour presentations and it was a very humbling and enlightening experience!

    If we all were maybe to compose an essay ,for ourselves,titled “what could the world be like in 50 or 100 years from now?” maybe we can ,as a first step anyway, remove the mental ‘shackles’ the baking elite has conditioned us with,and is ever present in contributions i read on many blogs.

    just a thought..

    anyway,for a pint i go !

    • joe hack

      If your unemployed with DMW card one pint of low content alcohol (2.8%) is your monthly allowance it must black stuff and irish , you must also ring the unemployed bell in the bar so everyone in the bar knows that your ordering your monthly pint of guaranteed Irish owned by a foreign company.

    • bonbon

      Why not say what the bright were presenting? Fusion has been delayed, defunded by 40+ years, with the deliberate intention of culling. Some very bright have great problems with that at “prestigious” uni’s. Fusion works perfectly well as weapons, which Obama was on the point of unleashing against Russia on the Syria pretext.

      It is a choice : Glass-Steagall for Fusion and NAWAPA XXI or Obama’s version, now, not some “50″ years ahead.

      Economics is determined by the future, intention. That is time reversal in human affairs. This is the principle of classical music, Bach for example. This shows why the bestiary posturing as behavioral economics and statistical methods all fail catastrophically. The utter failure to realize this leads to the insanity of Adam Smith’s sentiment that economics springs spontaneously, unknowably from dead capital.

      Glass-Steagall is the intention to have a future, not the cull Wall Street and the Anglo-Dutch are intending. That’s something for the bright to consider. Percy Shelly put it very truthfully – see Gigantic Shadows of Futurity

      • whatamess

        My experience with those young adults was that they wwere full to the brim of vision,enthusiasm ,determination and maybe most importantly ,unfettered by the current status quo and NOT curbed my bad life experiences,not restrained by lack of belief in their individual ability ,and this was also, for me, “an electric moment of human beauty and truth”.
        That was the motivation behind me sharing that story.

        it took me 18 months to “get it” about regulation
        ( democracy & the LAW ) being the only worthwhile weapon with which to take up “the slingshot” again in this battle against Goliath!

        tooo many drinks 4me…

        taim i ndeireadh na dala

        choladh samh d’fhir agus d’bhuachailli ;)

  48. whatamess

    baking elite = banking elite

  49. whatamess

    not viva Verdi , but close enough for me …

    Mozart’s Marriage of Figaro

    4mins short


    • whatamess

      “I have no idea to this day what those two Italian ladies were singing about. Truth is, I don’t wanna know. Some things are best left unsaid.

      I’d like to think they were singing about something SO beautiful it CAN’T be expressed in words, and makes your heart ache because of it. I tell you those voices soared, higher and farther than anybody in a grey place dares to dream.”

      it was like some beautiful bird flapped into our drab little cage and made those walls,dissolve away.

      And for the briefest of moments,every last man at Shawshank,
      felt free

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