July 8, 2013

We're backing three horses

Posted in Banks · 146 comments ·

Did you ever see a jockey riding two stray horses at the end of a race? I’ve always been amazed at the ease with which an experienced jockey can get the two animals trotting along at the same time. However, woe betide the poor jockey’s nether regions if the two horses decide to head off in separate directions. Now imagine a jockey trying to straddle three horses?

The Irish economy is a bit like a jockey trying to straddle three horses. We need all horses running in the same direction and, broadly, at the same pace, for our policy mix to deliver the best outcome for our people.

The first horse is the British economic horse. This horse is by far the most important trading partner in terms of both employment and actual trade. By actual trade, I mean the labour-intensive trade that gives hundreds of thousands of people a living – agriculture, tourism and retail.

The second horse is the European, or German, economic horse. This horse is crucially important from a policy point of view, because its performance dictates our level of interest rates.

For a highly indebted population like ours, the German horse exerts far more influence than it would do if its influence were based on how many people are dependent on trade with Germany for their living. That figure is small – not derisory, but small – and yet the German influence on Ireland is huge.

The third horse is the American horse. The US is – on paper at least – Ireland’s biggest trading partner. This figure refers to the hugely capital-intensive, tax-sensitive multinational sector. Multinationals account for 90 per cent of our recorded exports, but less than 7 per cent of our actual employment.

American companies are why Ireland’s economic figures flatter to deceive. Without them, we’d be Croatia in the rain – a country with no real domestic industry bar food and tourists – the standard staple of the economically underdeveloped.
It is not hard to see why we need the third horse, the American one.

For the jockey (ie, Ireland), the best outcome is when all three horses are moving more or less in the same direction. When they head off in opposite directions, even having an Irish neck like the jockey’s proverbial you-know-what can’t help.

Last week, we got indications of where our three crucial horses are headed.

There was so much relevant economic data published during the week, it is difficult to know where to start. But let’s kick off with the big trends. If the numbers and the policy response unveiled last week become a trend, the main players in the global economy – our horses – are now poised to head off in very different directions.

This global divergence will have enormous ramifications for the Irish economy.

First, let’s see which way the horses are running.

In the US, the economy appears to be coming back to life, after years in the recovery ward. Unemployment figures published last Friday indicate that finally the chances of getting a job in America are improving. This caused a commotion in the financial markets, which were already spooked by the Federal Reserve’s indication that it will “taper off” its massive money-printing experiment.

Long-term interest rates rose dramatically on Friday. This is because many now think that the recovery will be strong enough to let the Fed ease up big time on printing money. Interestingly, this is what the Fed wants. After all wasn’t that what all the money printing was supposed to do?

It was supposed to kickstart the anaemic economy into life, and this would eventually be seen in fewer Americans kicking around with nothing to do all day. We are still a long way off from a victory for the Fed, but the financial markets seem to think that the Fed will win this one, unemployment will fall, and the Fed will take its foot off the printing accelerator. If the US manages to achieve this smooth lift-off, Ben Bernanke will join Pope John Paul II in the priority-boarding queue for sainthood.
So the odds are now on a US recovery: delayed, fitful, but a recovery nonetheless. This will send the dollar up and the US bond market down. A strong dollar always makes dollar investments in countries like Ireland more attractive. Good news for us.

Now let’s look at our first horse, the British mare.

The British broke with tradition last year by employing the Irish-Canadian Mark Carney as the Bank of England governor, which shows (among other things) how far the Irish of Gross Isle in Montreal have come over the years.

In his first outing as Bank of England governor last Thursday, Carney made it clear that the change at Threadneedle Street was more than cosmetic. Carney’s first move was to tell the world what his team was thinking.

“In the Committee’s view, the implied rise in the expected future path of Bank rates was not warranted by the recent developments in the domestic economy.”

This is a huge departure in terms of style – but also of substance. Carney is saying the British economy is still very weak, and that it will not be torpedoed by higher interest rates.

He is saying to the financial markets: chill out, there is plenty of time for rate rises, so at the moment let’s keep the patient in the convalescent ward. Again, good news for Ireland.

What about our third horse, the European or German nag? Well, here again, we had a significant policy shift from the ECB on Thursday. Following Carney’s straightforward statement about the British economy on Thursday, Mario Draghi went one better, saying that the eurozone would not see any rate rises for the foreseeable future.

This is hardly surprising, given the endemic weakness of the periphery and the political crisis in Portugal. However, what is different is that the central bankers are projecting forward and stating that they see weakness for some time to come in Europe; and, more importantly, that they will do what Bernanke did in the US and use all the tools in the monetary toolbox to stave off depression.

What does this mean for Ireland? It means that there will be absolutely no interest rate rises for some time. This must give huge relief to the thousands who are just about breathing, despite enormous debts.

Regular readers will know that I don’t believe that their debts should be, or will be, paid -but, ahead of that natural debt deal, this is at least a bit of breathing space.

As for Britain being kept on the monetary life-support system, this again can only help Irish agriculture and tourism dependent as we are on the whims of the English consumer.

Finally, if the dollar were to rise, as I expect it to do, multinational profits when translated into dollars will go up. If this makes a 50-50 decision to invest here or not more likely to fall in our favour, then this too is a small bit of supportive news.

While all this suggests that the international news has been a little bit helpful during the week, it also reveals an obvious lack of joined-up thinking in Irish policy when we are in the lap of the gods of three very different economies, and very different policy-making elites.

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    • Glorious day here in Devon.
      All bask in the Wimbledon triumph of the Scot Andy Murray


      Yesterday I enjoyed the double birthday party of two sisters.

      I have noticed that in the farm community around here, nobody gives a toss about the three economic nags that are being injected with monetary steroids for one last race before finally collapsing in favour of younger horses on a different track.

      Dairy farmers have collapsed and gone to grass fed beef and supplementary jobs to make ends meet. Family labour is employed for survival on the farm.

      My sister and family have survived as they retail the milk. Here in Exbourne, Dunn’s doorstep milk delivery boasts over 3000 customers for dairy products. The two boys now in their mid 30′s have 10 years of building and developing the dairy on the farm. Parents sell milk to the dairy at a price that allows survival and the boys process the milk and sell retail in the community.

      I like it here as there is always lots of Devonshire clotted cream to add to anything I fancy!

      Seems the way to make a living is to find a niche and exploit it and then work like hell.

      • I meant to add that a lot of people are indeed riding three horses to survive the race.

      • Adam Byrne

        Yes that’s exactly what you have to do Tony.

      • michaelcoughlan

        Wonderful post Tony.

        When I read this a lightbulb went off in my head. I couldn’t figure out why inflation is so low but now I understand. The income for families is falling while money supply is increasing. This gives the illusion that domestic consumer inflation is under control but it isn’t. People are receiving less in their incomes which is reducing but paying only slightly more for goods and services. This means they are paying more as a portion of their income even
        though prices are under control.. Load of horse shite really.

        • That is correct Michael.
          One hour of labour buys 45% of what it did in 1070.
          cost of goods and services generally are up 15 times and wages in the same time period up 7 times.

          This does not calculate the higher tax rates and addition of VAT etc.

          I would venture to guess that the differential is closer to 35%. That is an hours labour buys less than 40% of what it used to; Hence the requirement for 2.5 incomes in a household to be able to qualify to by a home.

          The fact that money supply increases only adds to indebtedness under our current fiat debt based money system. It has also been demonstrated that it is not required to expand the money supply in order to expand the economy. This simple fact is consistently ignored by DMW and many others.
          Money is a catalyst to enable the transaction and is never used , eroded or destroyed in the transaction. It immediately is available for another transaction and then another ad infinitum. It is the speed or velocity of the money passing from transaction to transaction that enables an increased activity.
          Likewise less and less money is needed to enable a transaction, and this means that each unit of money represents a larger economic value. This is the gentle deflation that characterizes the growing economy.

          It is time to stop expanding the money supply as it clogs the economy with increased debt.
          The only money without attached debt is that not issued as a debt. We can issue debt free money without a problem.
          The only money that cannot be regularly expanded or increased in volume is one relatively rare. Usually gold and silver
          Back to square one Joe!!

      • Pauldiv

        Great post Brogie. Sounds like you are having a great time.

        I used to live in Dorset and would sometimes visit Devon for a cream tea. The heat in Sligo today reminds me of the weather on the South Coast. Bloody sweltering!

        There is a pub in Teignmouth that sells Hoegaarden on draft and one day when I was taking a rest from the heat and imbibing the whole town was covered in a plague of flies. I think it happens every year.

  1. Its a Three Legged Race

  2. CitizenWhy

    Confirmation that Ireland is tying to make the best out of being a colony rather than an independent nation.

    • Well said. That article is one of those perceptive pieces that David specialises in writing, where he manages to address everything except the startlingly obvious: Why on earth would anyone want to straddle three horses? Particularly when none of the horses are yours? The simple, most obvious thing to do in a situation like this is to dismount immediately, even if it means having to walk the rest of the journey. Common sense is crying out the wise course of action. Ireland however, is a country with a death wish.

      • Joe R

        Well Switzerland has been doing it for a few hundred years with Germany, Italy and France. Independence is notional. Ireland is small and could have limited independence with respect to these bigger economies in any situation. Perhaps it is more about chosing how we relate so yhat we gain the best position possible for ourselves.

        Maybe take a look at what Switzerland has done. I am no expert but I would imagine not giving up basic economic levers like currency and interest rates

        • Joe R

          …are important.

          Error above; that for yhat.

        • Independence is not notional, but it is relative and relative to Ireland, Switzerland has it in spades, whereas Ireland has it hardly at all, or only in a very limited and formal sense. Also, Switzerland appears to have a strong foothold in the financial world whereas Ireland is being tossed about on the waves.

          But you are right in saying that the Swiss scenario and the France-German-Italian axis could be a useful case study.

          • Joe R

            Hi Oscar,

            Yeah, I wasn’t clear at all with that independence is notional comment. You were correct in asserting what you did.

            For me what would be interesting to learn about is Swiss thinking – they seem to have been quietly confident about their overall position over many centuries relative to the three cultural and economic giants that they are stuck between, and have manipilated that to yheir advantage.

  3. ps200306

    “Finally, if the dollar were to rise, as I expect it to do, multinational profits when translated into dollars will go up.”

    I don’t get it. If the dollar strengthens, as it has been, multinational profits earned in other currencies will go *down*. A few weeks ago, each euro you earned translated into $1.35. Now it gets you $1.29. How is that not a *loss* of profits?

    • mcsean2163

      The cost of labour drops, therefore the multinational profits in Ireland increase.

      • JPL

        Yes, but profits earned in euros also drop in value by the same amount as the reduction in labour cost, so that will cancel out any benefit from a stronger dollar.

        It only makes sense if a company can pay euro salaries but book dollar sales. Maybe this applies to the more “tax efficient” aspects of some MNCs’ arrangements (e.g. registering IPR in an Irish company and charging your global subsidiaries for its use – fees to be paid in dollars) but it doesn’t apply to their European facing retail / service operations which are typically billed in euro.

  4. hibernian56

    “Our Policy” & “Irish Policy” = Civil Service policy = maintain the status quo.

    There is no policy other than fill the trough.

    The figures for the multinationals is very interesting, 90% of exports, 7% of employment. And yet every time you hear even the smallest job announcement it’s accompanied with the pathetic scramble by politicians to get to the photo op. “We created x jobs” is their war cry.

    Our politicians & civil service hero worship the multinationals and show nothing but contempt / scepticism towards indigenous SME’s. They just don’t understand hard work or dedication, these factors alone preclude them from the entrepreneur mindset.

    In the almost 100 years of this state, there is still no long term vision of business plan. Imagine if a company changed it’s business model twice a year like the dreaded budgets? But that’s part of the drama, the brainwashing of the citizens to make them believe the civil service are on top of their game, flexible and working for the citizens to provide “essential public services”.

    At the moment Cork looks like an over-grown jungle, the roads are filled with pot holes and there is rubbish everywhere. Simple question, what exactly are “essential public services”?

    • DB4545

      Hibernian56 I don’t see any evidence of any TK Whitaker visionary emerging from the public or private sectors. We’re almost a hundred years on from our rising from the ashes to create our little republic. Many of our citizens in the public and private sector worked hard and smart like Ken Whitaker to take us out of a feudal agrarian economy. However out easygoing nature has allowed drunken buffoons, thieves and gombeen parasites to hijack the State. I’ve mentioned East Germany in previous comments. A former colleague from East Germany explained how the place lasted so long and then imploded. He said that if you didn’t get mixed up in politics you had an ok life. He said that there was a good sense of community and that helped. However he said that everyone knew full well that the elites and well connected living in “Volgograd” were living on a completely different planet to the average worker. I’m looking at our broadcasting “superstars” in Pravda on 200-500K a year (about a 100K a year across the water for regional broadcasters with similar demographics). I’m looking at county managers retiring on pensions that Barack Obama would envy. I’m looking at semi-states stacked with non-execs who couldn’t manage a convenience store. We have choices. We need a mechanism to remove these parasites.I don’t want anarchy or the country to implode. But implode it most certainly will if we stay on this course.

      • hibernian56

        Agreed. I mentioned in a previous post about a person that typifies the clique, John Mullins. He just left Bord Gais where in my opinion he was a complete f*&k up…

        1. €300k on chairs.
        2. €M’s on an office move two miles down the road, including compensation payments to “workers” for disruption.
        3. A €4M vanity GAS POWERED electricity station, that was opened two weeks before Mullins sought a price increase from his buddy “The Regulator” due to “the increased of wholesale gas prices”.
        4. Huge price increases to the citizen.

        You couldn’t make it up.

        He then marches into a position as CEO of Cork Port!! Where is the relevant experience other than being a yes man and ex president of Fine Geal Youth?

        Mullins is an over fed, over indulged and over paid cretin. A parasite if I ever saw one. Take it from me I have had to shake his chubby sweaty hand.

        • Joe R

          Except he isn´t CEO of Cork Port. That is a man called Brendan Keating.

          He is however, CEO of Amarenco.

          D McWilliams,

          John Mullins CV is publicly available and pretty impressive, aside from hearsay like the above about positive or negative results.


          I have to ask you why do you tolerate this kind of professionally denigrating and plainly inaccurate comment on your site?

  5. Perhaps the US recovery is more myth and mirage than substance as the reduction in unemployment sees people no longer counted as they no longer qualify for benefits and others resort to part time lower paid jobs just to survive.

    The old grey Mare she ain’t what she used to be.


    • cooldude

      Very interesting article Tony. 47% in full time employment hardly seems to be the signs of an economy “coming back to life.” Lots of tricks are used in the US to keep the headline unemployment rate down such as not counting people who have been unemployed for a long period (what utter nonsense as these people are desperate for work) and also paying unemployed people to switch to disability allowance to also cook the numbers. There is no recovery in the US and that is made clear by the rapidly rising numbers using the food stamp programs which is approaching 50 million and is just a modern day soup kitchen scheme. Fed purchases of US treasuries has increased over 500% since 2009 and now accounts for over 70% of total issuance. This scale of open debt monetization is a clear sign of an economy heading for banana republic status. The only thing the Fed and Bernanke has achieved is to transfer vast amounts of newly created money to the criminal banking syndicate. The real economy continues to struggle.

      I’m afraid the jockey is riding three nags who have all seen better days. Not good I’m afraid.

      • michaelcoughlan


        Can’t understand why McWilliams is mislead by “official” figures.

      • CitizenWhy

        The US prosperity based on used to be based on excluding blacks. Now it is based on permanently excluding a certain portion of the population from the prosperity of jobs. There is no intention of putting the many laid off back to work.

        BUT there is every intention to make the economy work for what I call Core America, the kind of people who are ell represented by those who take air flights, for business or pleasure or family reasons. They are employed, prosperous, and very numerous. When I talk with them they are convinced they will keep their jobs forever, until a comfortable retirement. They are determined to get their kids into “good colleges.” And most do. This economy within our economy is revving up slowly but surely. The excluded are not needed for this huge economy to function well.

        Globalization was supposed o even out prosperity and wealth among all the nations. In a rough way it has. Exporting jobs from the US and “importing” poverty in the form of permanent unemployment or temporary jobs only for for large numbers of people. The idea was for Brazil to become more like the US, with an expanded middle class, and it has. And, unspoken and carefully hidden, for the US to become more like Brazil by having a large portion of the population simply excluded form the economy. Not blacks this time, although the proportion of blacks among the excluded is very high.

        The corporate elite, able to buy government, win populist support on social issues and sheer hatred of liberals, and holding liberals hostage, have decided to wield the heaviest blows against the US and now the Canadian vast Midwest. The ecology, health and water systems of the midwest are to be destroyed through fracking so the elite can extract wealth in the form of toil and gas extracted form the tar sands. The corporate elite do this with the full cooperation of the populist right and local state elites. Everywhere in the Midwest radical Republicans are taking over state governments and reducing the rights of labor. The trend is to reduce the Midwest to the poverty and backwardness of the Depp South. Meanwhile in North Carolina, a state with an educated population and a large number of liberals, unemployment benefits have been eliminated. This will eventually happen in many Midwestern and southern states. The core Americans with jobs will have to look the other way or live in fright. In fact many will support tgis move, having been trained to see the unemployed as stealing from them and their children.

        Right wing America is determined to eliminate the FDR reforms, including Social Security. And they are succeeding small steps at a time, the way the much smarter Protestant Bishops of England at the time of the Reformation came to impose the Church of England on a priesthood that preferred to remain Catholic.

        Core America is a complex economy. I see my relatives, second and third generations defended from Irish immigrants, preparing, with the first generation parents able to give them an economic boost, a sort of dowry, to get them established. I see hipsters in my neighborhood living well or living poor, but most capable of getting out and doing well, with good educations and prosperous family backgrounds. I see Latinos in my old neighborhood working incredibly hard, pooling their resources, determined to buy a triple decker and proposer. I overhear the black men at my mostly black coffee shop shop mentoring to marriage and prosperity some of the young men from their churches. I also see a lot of the permanently poor, many with drug habits, many without drug habits. Yet, because they live in a liberal sate, most (not all) are decently housed and fed. But when the Republicans gut the federal social safety net, as they know, state safety nets will have to be gutted too Austerity on the national level has been avoided in the USA, to keep Core America, felling safe and keeping their noses to the grindstone. But austerity has always been the policy of the states in the Depp South and is now being imposed on many other state governments.

        When the Neo-Confedrate Dixiecrats were in the Democratic party they were held in line somewhat and allowed to run wild only in their own states. Now that they and the “Libertarian” (that is, laissez-faire) corporate elite have taken over the republican Party they are determined to impose Neo-Conferatism (without specifically targeting blacks) on the entire nation. And they are succeeding. It does not matter that democrats win elections, the corporate elite dictates policy.

        Cor America will continue to prosper. The rest of the population does not matter to he corporate elite and the politicians they own. And massive protea, if they ever were to happen again, won’t matter either. Liberlas run amok from one issue to another, blogging, blogging, blogging, and never effectively organizing against one big issue, as happened with civil Rights and the anti-war mobilization against the Vietnam War. The US’s policy o eeping the islamic world in complete disarray is working just fine. uch of Europe is abdndoning ocial democracy, not because it doe snot work, but because the global laissez-faire corporate economy works only for teh elite ad a certain portion of any population. BUT the corporate elite have convinced the world of Thatcher’s famous dictate – TINA – There is no alternative” to corporate rule and the resulting widespread unemployment, poverty and pollution.

        • David NZ

          Very good points.
          In DMW’s defense, it’s all relative. You are seeing the destruction of the Mid-West middle class bit by bit, whereas Europe is seeing the wholesale destruction of it’s youth’s future prospects and the immediate impoverishment of the Southern European middle class.

          At least the US had an initial fiscal stimulus and then Ben Bernancke to stem the flow of financial blood and is seeing some growth, whereas in Europe there was initially very little fiscal stimulus and from then on the cry has been more bloodletting and leeches.

          The US is more decentralised, which is acting as a protective mechanism whereas Europe seems to be wide open to abuse by its’ centralised political elite.

  6. LME Fraudulent futures contracts.
    Selling gold that does not exist to drive the market price lower. Condoned and ignored by regulators This fraud is allowed and encouraged by government.
    Corruption reigns


  7. Never mind backing three horses. all are losers.

    for the real US recovery see how 24% unemployment fits this description.


  8. 5Fingers

    Germany, UK and America…That’s what our host says defines Ireland’s economic path. And if we get a nice weather in July, Aug and Sept, it’ll be even better.

    I take all these statements on employment, interest rates etc with a grain of salt. I guarantee there’ll be a reversal or other set of circumstances that’ll pop up a yield the opposite result in the weeks to come and the markets will flip to that like a blind herd of lemmings. A lot of the data being read out are from official statistics and are subject to interpretation and they are doctored to the Nth degree prior to market presentation. The sad fact is…the fundamentals are so badly out of alignment (i.e. financial view versus real economic and socio-economic). We simply do not know. We have no idea what is going on – and judging by the people I know across a fair few countries, things are looking dodgy at best.

    Thanks for trying to cheer us up though.

    • 5Fingers

      And…Ireland is fine. Black economy is buzzing and as for marching? We can march if we need to…35-40K on the prolife. We have our priorities. Clearly economics is not the one that gets up our nose.

      Now, take Brazil…did I read that right…Ref stabs player to death and then he in turn is stoned and quartered by the fans…they have their priorities as well.

      The world is a complex place.

      • Joe R

        They stuck his head on a stake and left it close to the pitch too. The English language versions of the story omitted that nice detail.

  9. Loss of bond values, rising interest rates and increased inflation make gold the go to safe haven asset. –John Williams


    I say farmland too. Grow all the vegetables, fruits and nuts you can get planted. Add a greenhouse (Polytunnel) for something more tropical!
    cow and a pig if you have the room. Few hens, ducks etc.

    • joe hack

      I am glad to see you dropped that gold thingy in favor of the real economy but I fear investment in food in the following ways GM and bio-fuels…

      ****”Through Vivergo Fuels, a partnership between BP, DuPont and AB Sugar, we have built a biorefinery on an existing BP site in Hull. In the UK, Vivergo will open an ethanol and animal feed plant in the Humber Estuary. Vivergo, which represents BP’s investment in British biofuel, utilizes wheat in its production of fuel at their major biorefinery. Unfortunately, Britain’s wheat crop is expected to be a record-small crop, and the country is expected to be a wheat-importer in 2013/2014”****

      food price will rise

      The sanity of the EU herd:

      ****(Reuters) – Oil major BP (BP.L) is directing investment in advanced biofuels to the United States and South America due to uncertainty about the European Union’s future regulatory environment, a senior executive said.”*****

      • I know you live in everlasting hope but I have not dropped the gold thingy either.

        BUT land is survival. not an investment in food. Agri bus generally is as bad as anything else although there are investment funds that deal in organic enterprises.

        I am interested in what the individual can do for themselves not what somebody else can do for them.

        A small plot will provide half a dozen hens and a rooster. nutritious chicken to eat and not the factory farm pap. Decent range eggs to eat. Join a coop and get some organic milk, butter and cream.

        If you have enough space a few sheep and pigs and there is enough to eat. Buy a water filter or a fresh water maker and have uncontaminated water. Clean fresh vibrant.

        You do not put poor fuel in your motors why put lousy food in your body.

        Biofuels are nuts. Use good food to create fuel which used fuel in the first place to create the grain. DUH!
        Then put the fuel in the engines and have to put an additive to the fuel so the biofuel does not ruin the engine yes DUH again.

        Nobody can be that stupid to ordain it policy. They must know the results so I conclude there is someone out to ruin us all by deliberate policy. That has benn my conclusion since the early 1970′s. nobody listened then and few do today!! Pity.

        • joe hack

          ***”land is survival. not an investment in food”** I agree – (land is Life)and the Peoples land is been controlled by fewer and fewer people who invested in the land

        • 5Fingers

          Ah come off it. Growing stuff is a hell of a lot trickier than it looks. Yields on organic is generally rubbish with zero proven benefit and people have other things they want to do besides hoeing all day under unreliable weather – oops…that growing season went fast! So are you into the toil of winter storage and beating off all critters who want to eat your stuff as well!

          Fact is, humans are tougher than you know and can eat any old rubbish – its how they survived when they are the weakest without fang and claw. I also hazard we are a damn sight more resilient in these economic circumstances as well…is not that the real point of economics and why Malthus was always wrong?

          Could it be that all these anti-tech, alternative med, metallists, NEO types have one common fear – fear of the future and a genius that will remain forever beyond them and an overarching need to be in control in a world that quite simply is beyond us all. Fundamentally you are all without faith and fearful of a reality that says – Yer only here by accident or cos someone unknown thought it’d be a great laugh.

          • Wrong on most counts mr 5 fingers. Still I would rather follow my advice than yours.
            Pesticides, monoculture, tasteless, void of nutrition, In some cases poisonous food is Diabetic forming and cancerous, and a diet that disables and kills.

            Each to his own.
            Come off it yourself, you talk rubbish and by the sound of it eat rubbish too.

          • Dorothy Jones

            You gotta love it though Philip : nothing like having a blow-in pontificate to the hardy North County Dublin folk on how to farm! The oracle hath spoken…lol

          • Pauldiv


            The yields from GM are no better than conventional crops.

          • cooldude

            Avoiding foods which are proven to be poisonous shows a level of intelligence and respect for oneself and life in general. This is a million miles away from fear of the future or being anti-tech it is simple basic intelligence based on all the available facts. GMO foods have been proven to be detrimental to both animal and human health. The yields are actually lower than the intelligent forms of organic farming such as permaculture and the main reason they are promoted is for Monsanto and friends to have complete control of the food supply. This is what these people want and this is not being fearful of reality this is acknowledging the new reality that these global corporations are tying to impose on us. They have almost succeeded in imposing their totally controlled money system on us and this has been only been beneficial to a very small minority of “insiders” and has been detrimental to all other people. Similarly their attempt to control the food supply will be extremely detrimental to anyone who eats this shit and extremely lucrative to those who control the system. The British government have recently banned GMO foods from the cafeteria in the commons whilst at the same time their paid for MP’s are trying to get GMO foods passed in law. These guys know this stuff is poisonous shit but they want to force us to eat it due to lack of choice. You can eat it if you want but count me out and leave me with the freedom of choice to make informed decisions on what I choose to put in my body.

          • 5Fingers

            Look, we are omnivores and we are murderous. We have the one of largest liver sizes as a proportion of body mass of most of the mammals out there. We are the most difficult to poison and have the most poisonous saliva to other mammals. Our drug intake for mild anesthetics etc would kill most animals many times our weight. We are a pretty nasty and hardy animal that can also last a fair long time in every environment on this little globe of ours. Homo Sapiens is purpose built to give Malthus a kick in the balls every time.

            As for GM and your so called view of what is or is not good for you…Drinking Milk is really only for us Paddies who as it happens has the highest concentration of the genetic marker for a gut that can digest the stuff. Guess who it kills off? We import oranges and all that good stuff during our winter…that is known to be damaging to the Paddies as well. Handling high hits of citrus juices does not suit everyone. But, luckily, the good old Homo Sapiens like the little survivor they are undergo an average of 2 genetic mutations per lifetime per adult. GM food…give it a few generations and we will be eating radioactivity with ease.

            We are evolving and we may become more cybernetic, more pluralistic, with chimeric transplants and stem cell transfers and will alter all of us more. Just look at what the automobile and the airplane has done.

            I want GM food. I want to understand it and learn to manipulate it and be part of society. I want a pluralistic society…not one rooted in nonsense and unattainable common ethics and rituals. I want us to prep for takeoff from this little orb of ours…cos out there, I suspect we will need to be a lot more dangerous and nastier and tougher and more open minded than ever before.

          • Adam Byrne

            Good man Philip, I see you are finally coming around to my way of thinking. All those stern talkings to in the Palace must be taking effect haha.

            There are bound to be good and bad aspects of GM but anyone who thinks we can turn the clock back to the ‘good old days’ is a hopeless Luddite.

          • cooldude

            I totally agree that we are omnivores and I never mentioned that we were not. Perhaps you would be better off reading my pieces and responding to each relevant point as I do to yours rather than going into a rant.

            In relation to GM foods there is an increasing amount of EVIDENCE that it is not only harmful for homo sapiens but is also harmful for every single creature on this planet. The yields are NOT superior and the food gives humans all sorts of diseases including cancer which is not something you will get three generations to get over. In tests on hamsters with GM corn they were extinct after three generations. I don’t always agree with Dr Bonbon but I think this could well be a part of the eugenic plans that certain elites have openly declared as their agenda for our species. Check out the recent statements by Bill Gates, Ted Truman or any of the Club of Rome crowd. This information is openly available if you are able to do a small amount of research to check out these FACTS.

            Here is a website which looks at the latest studies on GM foods and the effects they have on both homo sapiens and some of the other creatures we share this planet with

            On your statement that humans can eat any old rubbish I’m afraid you are factually incorrect yet again. The rise in the rate in diabetes in “developed” societies shows that something is very wrong in our modern diets. The rate of increase in this easily preventable disease has gone off the charts all across the developed world as soon as the population is introduced to the modern high fructose, trans fat diet that is prevelant in processed foods. Before you start on its all in the genes these diseases were almost non existent in societies eating a traditional diet low in sugar and high in natural fats.

            You have called my well researched comments nonsense yet offer no studies or any papers to back up your views. You seem unable to debate on any intellectual level and constantly refer to people who take informed decisions on their health and their lives as “rooted in nonsense and rooted in unobtainable goals and rituals”. This statement makes no intelligent sense. Making informed choices on one’s health is the epitome of intelligent sense and making informed decisions. Just because these decisions interfere with your blinkered world view does not make them in any way invalid. I do not want any stem cell transplants or any of the other stuff you seem to believe is coming your way. I believe completely in individual choice and would completely support your participation in this carry on but I don’t want to be forced to consume a diet full of toxic GM foods which my extensive research has led me to believe is detrimental to both my physical and mental health.

          • Adam Byrne

            Those are fair points cooldude – the jury is still out on a lot of this stuff, but that doesn’t mean that scientists should stop trying (I’m not talking about Monsanto and other corporations ripping off people here – but good science).

            I guarantee that even if someone came up with an all singing, all dancing crop that could feed the planet, repair the ozone layer and do your vacuum cleaning – you’d still get a shit load of Luddites setting themselves on fire over it. Is progress (or a zig-zag journey in search of progress) just supposed to stop?

        • Pauldiv

          Some people don’t think and their words prove we are surrounded by idiots.

          If you think you are labelled a luddite by the idiots below. No wonder Hemmingway blew his brains out at 62.
          It’s tempting when the truth becomes obscene.

          There really is a lot of idiots on this blog. Total morons.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Nearly there to all of the above. I did a ten week course in investing and trading in sticks etc. The trainer who wirks as a trader full time and who served his apprenticeship in the open cry pits has his house and car paid for, holds no money in the banks, dosent own a pension, bought a gun, and has his savings held in gold in bullion coins hidden in his lawn.

    • joe hack

      Bonanza, a song for Tony with love…



    • StephenKenny

      I hear that prime agricultural land in the midwest has increased from about $4,000 an acre in 2010 to over $20,000 today. This doesn’t seem to me to be much to do with today’s agricultural markets.

  10. joe hack

    Whitewashing the innocents:

    Horses they are a herd animal – wildebeest -sheep – all easy to lead over a cliff…
    Reinhart and Rogoff’s Pro-Austerity – fait money – wall street – herd – Mark Twain’s Tom Sawyer knew this when he got the herd to whitewashing Aunt Polly’s fence

    Crazy Horses; probably the best boy band song ever:

    Mr. Ed :

    Did somebody say horse shit?

    Enjoys the sun below is the soundtrack for your unemployed broke day in the sun:

    Always Look on the Bright Side of Life:

    Like Tom Sawyer Enjoy the sun while insider sweat and toil…

  11. I am suspicious of the US economy turning around as we’ve heard about various economies ‘turning the corner’ so many times already.

    In my mind I can’t help but come back to how money is created in line with debt. How can the US economy recover while maintaining a sustainable national debt, let alone sustainable personal and business debts?

    If the economy expands this can only be accompanied by rising levels of debts which will ultimately lead to another financial crisis, much sooner than we might think.

    Resolving the debt crisis can only come with the creation of debt-free money as far as I can see.

  12. joe hack

    ***”While all this suggests that the international news has been a little bit helpful during the week, it also reveals an obvious lack of joined-up thinking in Irish policy when we are in the lap of the gods of three very different economies, and very different policy-making elites.”***

    Who would argue with the above, we need a fix not a statement of the obvious…

  13. 5Fingers

    Just read an article in today’s FT about US turnaround. Did you know that ordinary Joe Soap consumption represents 70% of US GDP and 16% of global demand. So basically, what our host is really saying is we pretty well depend good ole US of A ordinary John Doe dropping down to his store and buying a flat screen TEEE VEEE.

    Bernanke has to be extraordinary careful about how he unwinds QE and lets interest rates climb. Too fast and he kills off poor Joe – whose currently meagre income sudden gets swamped by all those repayments. A jump from 3.5 to 4.5% (1% is the margin of error) in a 30yr mortgage is all it takes .

    Extra 196K employed, but factory payroll continues to decline. So much for real economy rebound (and NO, I am not convinced a service economy or an agrarian one still has the muscle to drive things forward yet)

    The whole thing is froth designed to drive a possible pickup abroad and a beneficial rebound. It may last until end of Autumn.

    Oddly enough, while China’s exports will slump, they still have a $300bn surplus against the US and they can focus more on tidying up the rough edges in their own part of town…and they have a lot of issues – but nothing I would hazard that is screwing up the US with its aging infrastructure, massive inequalities – and lets not forget the EU – just more of the same with the peripherals and incompetent and unaccountable officialdom bogging us down. At least in China, they shoot people for criminal negligance…we seem to be quiet happy to let the innocents be slaughtered.

  14. Deco

    What is this “we business” ?

    The local gombeen establishment might be backing three horses, but they are riding one populace…..

  15. bonbon

    Horses? Who’s playing?

    It takes a bit of Spanish humor to make sense of the Irish carry-on
    Goya – They Who Cannot


  16. joe hack

    With the EU/USA trade talks underway we get GM foods, more Hollywood, more Google /cloud /spying and corn syrup resulting in 3 headed horses, mono culture, no privacy and obesity.
    What odds would paddy power give a 3headed horse? – Aporia should have been the title of David article.

    • Pauldiv

      Here’s a good un

      Youth Defence Site Hacked with 2000 Word Text:


    • Pauldiv

      No-one wants GM food.
      No-one wants it yet it is being forced upon us by corporations.
      Either politicians are not listening and need a word in their shell or they are being bribed by Monsanto.

      It’s black and white this one and if not so then maybe we need top spell it out.

      As far as I know Ireland doesn’t have gm and we would need to be insane to adopt it. The world imagines Ireland to be a world class supplier of grass fed animals and they are willing to pay for our superior meat products. We have an edge and should keep it

      • bonbon

        Don’t be daft, all food is even naturally GM. look at maize, GM from the get-go, invented by the Inca millenia ago, and what a crop! Totally dependent on human propagation.

        Now Monsanto’s licensing and other attempts to starve the world, but especially BIOFUEL use of agricultural land are a case for genocide proceedings at any court of human rights.

        Now imagine GM biofuels, a perversion in the tank already.

        • Adam Byrne

          Right on all three counts Mr. bonbon.

          • cooldude

            Factually incorrect Monsieur Bonbon. There is a world of difference in genetic selection over a number of generations to increase both yields and quality and splicing genes that contain herbacides into a crop. GM means genetic modification which is a totally different ball game than natural selection of superior genes,

            You may well be correct in that Monsanto’s real agenda is to starve the world and eliminate a large portion of the current population. This is a stated goal of both Ted Truman and Bill Gates who are both big time shareholders and their ideal population is 500 million which is 6.5 billion below our current numbers. But GM foods couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this could they?

          • 5Fingers

            Potato blight is an increasing problem. GM response would decrease the fungicide requirement and rack up yield due to less loss<<<<from a North Dublin farmer neighbour of mine. But shure, what would he know?

        • Pauldiv

          It’s not normal.

          • joe hack

            Sorry to hear that, you could try seek medical help.

          • Pauldiv

            I have all the medicine I need when I lift my head in the morning friend. It’s a grand life and getting grander. Only the mentally strong will come through this one and I will not be found wanting. Finally life is getting interesting

        • 5Fingers

          As for Monsanto et al, we need to be care about assuming “Western Superiority”

          China (34Million tonnes of tomatoes!!!) and India are the leaders in food production and export a lot as well. These are very advanced societies with the best in biotech etc

          I suspect GM has been in around for a long time. So much for NWO….which one I wonder?

  17. joe hack

    Jim Clifton is Chairman and CEO of Gallup. Says…

    *****”"”"”While living in Lincoln, Neb., many years ago, I drove by a man’s house that had caught fire and was burning — the roof was in flames. Oddly, the owner was out mowing his front yard while his house was ablaze. He just kept his head down and mowed, as if nothing was going on around him.

    That image came back to me last week as I was reading The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and The Washington Post. I read a lot about immigration, gay marriage, and the environment. Also about the National Security Agency, leaker Edward Snowden, the president’s trip to Africa, and other hot topics inside the Washington beltway. But there was very little in all three papers about the most burning issue of all to Americans: jobs and the economy. D.C. politicians and the media are mowing a metaphorical lawn while the country’s economic house is on fire.

    Perhaps America’s political and news leaders have given up on, or simply forgotten about, the unemployed and underemployed. Apparently, Big Unemployment is the new normal. Sure, the president and Congress address it, but rarely in an urgent way.

    Just look at last week’s jobs report. The economy added 195,000 new jobs, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. Not terrible, but not good either. Many economists, including Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, say that, given how depressed the economy is right now, we need to be adding 300,000 jobs per month, not fewer than 200,000.

    A big problem is that the federal government’s official unemployment rate doesn’t reflect the severity of the jobs crisis — these data may actually make Washington leadership and the media complacent. Here’s why: The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) defines unemployment as the percent of people looking for a job who can’t find one. So, for instance, if you’ve given up on trying to find a job for the rest of the year, you’re not considered unemployed because you quit searching.

    Another problem with the BLS measure: Let’s say you wash my car — it took you one hour or longer to complete and I gave you at least $20 for the task — the federal government doesn’t count you as unemployed. That’s even if you’re an out-of-work engineer and car washing is the only work you can get right now.

    These measures severely undercount the number of underemployed people in America and are far removed from people’s real experiences and suffering. For example, the BLS reports the adjusted unemployment rate at 7.6% right now, where Gallup shows an underemployment rate of 17.2%. That latter figure is far more worrisome because it indicates that more than 20 million Americans remain unemployed or grossly underemployed.

    The BLS jobless rate may make Washington complacent about jobs and the economy overall, but the public is not. As Gallup recently reported, when asked what is their “greatest worry or concern about the future of the United States,” 34% of respondents said the economy, the nation’s finances, or unemployment/jobs. Among topics of great interest to politicians and the media, losing freedom and civil liberties was a top concern of only 4% of Americans, and immigration and border control garnered 2%. And how about this: gay marriage and the environment didn’t even make the list.

    U.S. leadership and media are missing the point as much as that guy in Lincoln mowing his yard while his house burned down.”"”"”*****

    Jim Clifton is Chairman and CEO of Gallup. He is author of The Coming Jobs War (Gallup Press, 2011).

    • Pauldiv

      Good stuff. There is tons of articles out there on the fake US recovery and low paid jobs as opposed to real jobs

      I just don’t get it whenever our host talks about American recovery

      It reminds me of a Billy Connolly joke about the Irish character where a man and woman are in their front garden and a stranger walks past asking how far to Ballynowhere. The man says : “12 miles that way”

      After the guy hits the road the wife scolds the husband : “ach you should have told him it was only 6.”

  18. bonbon

    Steep Descent: 40% of All U.S. Jobs are now low-wage

    9 July (LPAC) The Labor Department report of 430,000 part-time jobs being created in the United States in June, and 170,000 full-time jobs being eliminated, has jolted the financial-media fantasy of a U.S. “recovery” contrasting to the increasingly deep European recession. The Federal Reserve is searching for the elusive “exit” from massive money printing because it sees increasingly ominous debt bubbles, not because it sees “recovery” coming.

    Now what was that “recovery” again? This stuff is aped all over the EU, wherever some jobs are to be found, that is. Its called flexibility. Now where did we hear of this recipe, fully in swing?

  19. bonbon

    Losses, unrealized losses and undisclosed losses. Losses to be or not to be?


    July 8, 2013 (LPAC) — Following a two-month drop in bond markets in which interest yields have suddenly risen between 1.25% and 2.5% depending on the class of bonds, the Wall Street Journal reported July 8 that “Recent Fed data showed that U.S. banks have seen billions in unrealized gains from their securities portfolios evaporate as interest rates rise…. Gains in these portfolios fell from more than $40 billion at the beginning of the year to around $6 billion. Banks won’t record losses for these assets but they will take a hit to capital levels.”

    The larger U.S. banks already have capital ratios in the low single digits, 3-5% in real terms, meaning they are leverage between 20:1 and 33:1. Further drops in capital from bond market losses — which will continue — means these banks will lend even less to business and industry. Their lending is well below its 2007 level as it is.

    One bank, the Federal Reserve, has taken unrealized losses — meaning losses in securities that the bank is still holding — of over $200 billion in its $3.3 trillion portfolio during May and June. They have largely wiped out the “unrealized gains” Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke was bragging about to Senate Banking Committee in early May.

    The Fed, however, will go right on printing money and pouring it out to the big banks for securities purchases and liquidity loans until the bubble bursts.
    This is what Hamiltonian Credit is all about, when people realize that under this manic monetarism, no recovery nor Reconstruction is to be ever possible. We must make the banks realize their losses, toss them off, and get back to banking. That is what Glass-Steagall is all about, many have realized.

  20. bonbon

    FG et al are perversely “burning the bondohlders”, one set that is – the Irish Credit Unions.


    The stench of hypocrisy! Not touching the anonymous global billionaires.

    • Deco

      Oh….but this is the fault of the credit unions themselves.

      They simply are incapable of lobbying Brussels.

      Besides, the gombeen subservient state needs some evidence that it is burning some bondholders, to make the taxpayers feel as if their interests are protected.

      It is entirely superficial.

      It is also meaningless, because it screws the local economy. But that is also the fault of the credit unions.

      If only they invested in some politicians, and political donations, they would get much better consideration.

      The whole thing is descending into farce.

    • bonbon

      Sure we all know the financial crisis is the “peoples” fault, and that’s why Draghi et al expect to bail-in. For their terrible sins if being victims you see. Is’nt it so considerate of them.

      And the 1846 famine was “their own fault”, but it did get the population down did’nt it, as Trevelyan just had to admit after his French holiday while it “blew over”.

      Now we have FG doing Trevelyan’s work.

  21. DB4545

    I asked a question in a previous DmcW article. The credit unions are currently being centralised with a back office operation controlling funds and front of house being reserved for the local yokels. What are the chances of a further theft of shareholder funds along the lines of the Cypriot raid on private property?

  22. DB4545

    I asked a question in a previous DmcW article. The credit unions are currently being centralised with a back office operation controlling funds and front of house being reserved for the local yokels. The mechanism will be perfect for a systemic governmentnraid on Irish credit union shareholders private property based on the Cyprus model. What’s the time frame?

    • bonbon

      Bail-in is now official EU policy, reported here for the last few articles. Cyprus was a test-case presided over by Enda as EU Commission President or some such. What do you expect honestly?

      But look at Deutsche Bank – 1-to-100 capitalization. A 0.1% quake on the derivative front wipes out their entire assets. Bail-in cannot function then! That could be Portugal for example.
      See above the zerohedge numbers.

    • Pauldiv

      Prejudice against locals?
      Mind you it’s hard to like the locals.
      They are either embarrassingly corrupt or just plain fuckin thick and stupid.

      • Adam Byrne

        You are starting to sound like me Pauldiv.

        • Pauldiv

          Seems I am happier though and that’s all that matters to me and mine.

          You still believe in Nuclear power? Maybe you have not been not been visiting rense.com even though I hinted months ago that you should to rethink your position on nuclear energy.

          The stuff being pumped into the ocean off Fukushima is frightening but hey that’s ok. Nuclear is safe and so is GM. Get a grip of yourselves. You sound like total idiots.

          Thick as feck or just full or self hatred. Where is Col today? I need some idiots to entertain me but I am sure you will do. Get a grip and crawl out of your bigotry. Learn to smile and smell the flowers.

          • Adam Byrne

            Yeah, you’re right Pauldiv, I’m miserable as hell, here.

          • Colin

            Och, you mean the total idiot like Joe R, who thought he caught me out with a post I made on Monday 27th May. The boyo might think he knows it all with his smart phone and all, but he would do well to do some more homework on UK Bank Holidays. Yes Joe R, Site was closed that day as it was a Bank Holiday.

            And Joe R, as for your disbelief regarding civil engineering works sites in London operating 24/7, here’s some reading material for you. Enjoy…..and next time you wish to speak as an authority on work practices in civil engineering in London, do yourself a favour and ask someone who knows about it.


            Now Pauldiv, sorry I haven’t been able to post here as much as I’d have liked to, but the weather is wonderful, and I’ve got things to do. I know that leaves you short changed entertainment-wise, but hey, Life’s not fair you know?

          • Joe R

            How did a post about credit union centralization turn into an attack on me?

            Get a life you wannabe English twit!

            A site operating 24/7 doesn’t take off bank holidays off that would be missing the point…and yes they occur in little old Ireland too and yes I know how they operate , from experience, and therefore I can detect your jumped up self important BS at a glance.

            And what happened to the 10pm bedtime limit?…you are up all hours here…

      • Adam Byrne

        We’d be better off with 500 million, wouldn’t we Pauldiv, as opposed to 7 billion. Gates et al are staring to make sense.

        • Adam Byrne


          • joe hack

            “Starting” – Eugenics with peoples names beginning with A – be careful what you wish for.

            I don’t expect A the be the Rosa Parks of GM

        • Pauldiv

          How will you go about deciding who lives and who dies?

          Will you be spared?
          Will I be spared?

          Fascinating. Let’s just do away with 6.5 Bn people!

          Lol. You having a laugh.

          Go on. Explain the plan.

          • Adam Byrne

            Working on that bit Pauldiv.

            Tricky, admittedly, but getting there…

          • 5Fingers

            98% of the people who ever lived and now dead!

          • Pauldiv

            You are working on the logistics of doing away with six a half billion people?

            Wind up. Nice try Adam.

          • Pauldiv

            Apparently the high levels of suicide in Switzerland are attributed to guilt but that’s beside the point

            You are confused again. If someone believes in reducing the world’s population by a thousand percent then I completely fail to comprehend how such person(s) would know the first thing about guilt

        • 5Fingers

          Actually, the answer is a little more interesting. Hans Rosling believes it will start to self regulate.



          • Pauldiv

            Nature always regulates but some people think they know better. It is the ultimate in human arrogance to claim that we are more powerful than nature. Nature will prove superior and kick our arses believe me

            People like Bill Gates are freaks. Don’t know about the rest of you but people like him give me the creeps

          • Adam Byrne

            He’s a tosspot alright Pauldiv.

            He has a massive guilty conscience from ripping people off for years so he’s spending his obscene billions in inappropriate ways to try to get his place in heaven. Him and his arsehole mate Bono.

            Too late!

          • Adam Byrne

            Correction, Bono wouldn’t spend his own money, he’d only advise others to spend their’s.

  23. joe hack

    and in the news today depending on one strain of crop seed could starve us all WHEN it fails…


  24. joe hack

    An economist nightmare the man made plague – “Super Weeds and Wonder Worms: GMO Corn’s Legion of Doom”…


    “””Monsanto’s GM corn and soybean seeds have become so widespread over the past two decades that now, a new crop of “superweeds” have evolved to resist these potent chemicals.
    Now, insect resistance to Bt toxin is developing in the US corn belt. Root worms exposed to it seem to have become immune, breeding an unprecedented colony of superworms””””



    • cooldude

      Very interesting articles on the increasingly obvious flaws with GM foods. Here is another one which looks into the agenda behind this whole movement which is seems to be a bid for total control of the food supply along with their existing control of energy and money supply. Both war and economic depression are totally man made phenomena and neither have any place in a properly functioning society. Monsanto and their allies are global organizations and they want to control GM foods in every country including China and India. They want total control and this is their real agenda. There are no benefits with these foods and that is becoming increasingly clear. That won’t stop them however as this is not about benefiting mankind it is about gaining total control of the food supply

      • Adam Byrne

        cooldude, I wouldn’t say many people on here disagree with you on your point about greedy corporations wanting to control the world’s money supply, food supply etc.

        However, seeing as you think there are “no benefits” to GM foods, do you think they should just close down the industry immediately? Should no further research be undertaken?

        You’d have to have a crystal ball to make a statement like that. How on earth can you possibly predict the future in this regard? What happens if there’s a billion in one chance of finding a perfectly nutritious food that can feed the world and solve the carbon emissions problem at the same time (just for example)? You get the picture.

        Science has done many wonderful things for the world, conflating it with controlling global organizations is not always appropriate. Even if corporations WANT to control everything sometimes they simply cannot and progress ensues.

        • pauloriain

          Even if they could, they wouldn’t. E.g. it is possible to feed the world right now, but people are still starving.

        • cooldude

          The worrying part of all of this Adam is that they are trying and succeeding in getting all the patent rights over all the seeds on the planet. In other words some day the only seeds you will be allowed plant will be supplied by Monsanto and their cronies. I really think their agenda is pure evil and I don’t trust these guys one inch. Science should be used for the betterment of mankind but now it is mainly used for the destruction of life in the military industrial complex. Do your research on this subject because it looks to have some dark agendas behind it to me.

          • Adam Byrne

            cooldude, again, I agree with you. I’m talking about the advancement of science here, not the w**kers who are currently wielding it – that’s a separate (although related) issue.

  25. 5Fingers

    Back to the main story on the 3 horsies!

    Whether we like it or not, full or near full employment now looks more and more unlikely. If you do not have the skills to participate, you are not going to be let in…FULL STOP. Every specialty seems to involve reducing effort or increasing productivity without human beings. As we race to the bottom in terms of labour costs, we race to the top in niche specialization. But is everyone capable of being in a niche? If this is so, how do we educate and make a new sustainable model AND How are niches allowed to evolve in the midst of a competitive landscape whose mission is to eliminate competitors not just on quality and price, but on the usual comings and goings of misinformation.

    When we look at the US numbers and what lies in store for the EU, I cannot help feeling that Natonal Borders/ sovereignty have played a role in protecting local industry against raw EU wide competitiveness. Perhaps that’s the one big negative of the Euro…the manner of its use disables the necessary conditions to allow genuine local incubation – rather like prepping seeds before planting them out.

  26. Adam Byrne

    Luddites crack me up – banging away on their laptops saying shut down science.

    That’s a general comment not directed at anyone in particular.

    • Pauldiv

      If you want to eat GM then fine. I will live on locally produced organic food and grow some too

      I see you have learned a new word today Adam. The majority of people don’t want GM. The majority Adam. Just because they don’t want to see the world’s food supply being controlled by a couple of corporations does not mean they are against science

      You contradict yourself. GM is supposed to be the magic bullet that will provide the world with an abundance of food yet the world is capable of providing an abundance of the stuff using conventional seeds in fertile places like Africa.

      And yet…. and yet you claim we need to do away with 11/12ths of the population. (Howls of laughter)

      So Adam tell me which is it going to be. You can’t have it both ways. Can you?

    • joe hack

      I sit here on a park bench banging on my smart phone tying figure out how the definition Luddite has been manipulated and morphed in to something it is not. ‘Luddites banging on laptops’ – an oxymoron – and it has little to do with the welfare of peoples – when all else fails, shoot the messenger – name call and put a simplistic false tag on the messenger. debase the enemy as evil trash as it then becomes easy to eliminate the pest…

      • Pauldiv

        It’s nice to get a feel for people and this is the great thing about technology

        I don’t know what you look like yet imagine you sitting on the park bench wondering what our friend Adam is on about

        It creates and sense of Brotherhood and this is why I refer to you as ‘The Irish Brothers’

        It’s best not to wear labels. Don’t make it easy for the fuckers and make sure you remain enigmatic

        I was up walking on Carrowkeel pondering what Adam was banging on about and the scenery was intoxicating

        Ps. There is nothing better than sitting in a well kept public park in July.

      • Adam Byrne

        Luddites as in the colloquial understanding of the word joe hack.

      • Adam Byrne

        Happy banging.

        • joe hack

          ‘debase the enemy as evil trash as it then becomes easy to eliminate the pest…’

          Root-worm, Assad, Adam Byrne Blacks unemployed…

  27. Pauldiv

    6,500,000,000 ÷ 6,500,000 = ~ 1000 Holocausts.

    Some people are clearly out of their minds.

    Now shall we all have a nice cup of tea and discuss the finer points of ‘moral hazard’ or just read Kafka?

  28. Pauldiv

    Apprentice, 9PM, BBC1.
    The Interview stage.
    An abject lesson in tosspotism.

    • joe hack

      It’s sad that you know what time it’s on at

      • cooldude

        Forget about the apprentice and that ignorant twat Sugar. Tottenham were right to chuck him out and haven’t looked back. I look forward to the day one of the contestants tells him what a plonker he really is. Sorry to return to GM foods although this piece is about an awful lot more as well. Anyone who is interested in the eugenic plans that our lovely elites have in store for us should read this article carefully. The rest should simply watch lord sugar (what a gobshite) and pretend everything is ok.

        • 5Fingers


          A shower of wafflers. I thought u were only into “intellectual” arguments.


          • Adam Byrne

            It reads like the opposite end of the continuum on which Mr. bonbon and his LaRouche nuts reside.

            Then again, what do I know?

          • joe hack

            when all else fails, shoot the messenger – name call and put a simplistic false tag on the message. Debase the debate as trash as it then becomes easy to eliminate the pest…Hitler Bush … did this

            let try some of that here – wiki!

          • cooldude

            Typical shoot the messenger mentality. Wiki is totally controlled yet you accept it’s statements as facts. Name any item in the article which is factually incorrect. As far as I can see all or most of it is 100% correct. Just because global research correctly pointed out that the overthrow of Gadaffi was sponsored by the CIA and has ruined a once prosperous country whose people enjoyed a standard of living which was the envy of the rest of Africa. Don’t make me laugh with your faith in Wiki. They are bought and paid for by the mainstream. True wafflers.

        • Pauldiv

          It is like watching how how people thought and behaved in the olden days.
          A curiosity shop full of dickensian stereotypes, gargoyles and bullshitters

      • Pauldiv

        TV is a marvel of electrical engineering and physics. But of course I am anti science because I don’t want GM.

        So to summarize I am a sad luddite who is anti science. It’s been a giggle. Roll on next article.

  29. joe hack

    For sale one Nikon D3 one Nikon D300 an Nikon 18-200mm lens and more

  30. aodhanc

    David, Gross Isle in Montréal????

    I presume you mean Grosse Île.

    Spelling mistakes make any article look unprofessional.

    Both the Irish Independent and now even the Irish Times seem to be getting worse by the day.

  31. bonbon

    Some do indeed protest too much Victoria.

    Especially when GM biofuels perversities are found in their auto tanks.

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