May 27, 2013

Our young hung out to dry

Posted in Banks · 208 comments ·

Ireland is a country trying to compete with the rest of the world from a position of weakness and that weakness is, in the main, due to choices made by the state.

We find ourselves in the most turbulent period of global economic disruption, without the macroeconomic means to deal with one local impediment that makes economic recovery almost impossible. That impediment is the crippling level of personal debt in the country. As the growth rate stumbles, the debts, which are crushing the economy are getting heavier and it is the young who are paying the price much more than the middle aged or the old.

Our society is facing a massive crisis.

Young Irish workers face the very real prospect of being the first generation since the famine that will be poorer than their parents. The young are bearing a much greater proportion of the pain than the middle aged or the old. There is only so long this can go on without young parents and young people losing hope. When a generation loses hope, there can be no basis for national renewal.

There are four reasons why young people are bearing a disproportionate share of the pain.

The first factor is wealth. The young have been hammered by the property slump because they bought houses most recently. Therefore, their wealth has been totally wiped out by the property collapse. Over 50 per cent of the total mortgages in this country were issued between 2001 and 2007. This housing wealth is gone. So young parents and those between the age of 30 and 45 have no wealth.

The second factor is debt. Hundreds of thousands of young Irish people – the Pope’s Children generation – took on massive debts to buy these houses. While their wealth has evaporated, their debts have actually increased. They are not just poor, they are worse than poor because their debts far outweigh their assets and this will be the case for many, many years.

The third factor is income and opportunity. The reality for many hundreds of thousands of younger workers is a freelance career characterised by job insecurity, temporary contracts, low wages and few opportunities. Unemployment in the young far outweighs unemployment in the middle-aged; wages are much lower and contracts are temporary. Even in traditionally secure professions, like those of nurses and teachers, younger workers are on temporary contracts, while their older colleagues are permanent and pensionable.

The fourth factor is politics. Much of the political system is designed to uphold the status quo. In reality, the status quo means the wages and conditions of large voting blocs who are in employment and are naturally trying to hold onto what they have. This is not an orchestrated conflict between the generations, as much as the unanticipated upshot of 20 years of policy.

Many of the trade unions are similarly, and, again naturally, trying to protect the interests of their members – the majority of whom are in work and are older.

When the economy is stuck, a euro extra for one sector is a euro less for another, so there is a significant trade-off between young and old in preserving the status quo.

These problems are not unique to Ireland.

In fact they are evident in many developed countries. At the moment, the global economy is in a state of complete transformation. Economic change is moving at a much faster pace and with greater levels of disruption than in the past. Nothing is standing still and countries that try to stand still are breaking apart.

Two main forces are driving this. The first is that disruptive technological change is everywhere. Think about the music industry: it has been totally transformed by technologies, so much so that record shops, the staple of two generations, have all but disappeared.
In addition, globalisation means that the international labour market is much more competitive. The last generation didn’t have to contend with the impact of China, for example, on manufacturing job opportunities.

Taken together, technological change and globalisation means that the world is racing ahead and economic activity is now taking place in parts of the world which were not even in the game ten years ago, let alone 20 years ago.

Ireland is in a race with the rest of the world. All we need is a little bit of the global action to thrive, but the problem is that we are carrying on our backs a rucksack of deadweight debt while our competitors are running unencumbered. We don’t have a hope with such a domestic handicap holding us back.

The only way you can deal with debt is if you have in your economic toolbox probably the most valuable instruments any independent country has. That policy is monetary policy. With this tool you could adjust your currency, you could increase or decrease interest rates, you could inject liquidity into your broken banks and, crucially, with your own central bank, you could act as a financial convalescent ward for your battered economy. You could remove from the balance sheet of the people some of the mistakes that were made in the housing boom.

You could “park” huge amounts of debts on the balance sheet of the central bank and you could indefinitely roll over these debts so that the crippling debt burden of your people need not destroy companies and hundreds of thousands of careers. You could do all this if you had your own currency, your own central bank and a sagacious overseer who understands the power of debt forgiveness, the natural dynamism of an economy liberated from the anvil of debt and appreciates the fact that the rest of the world is not waiting for Ireland to sort itself out.

Unfortunately, we are in the euro and can do none of the above. We have given away a crucial economic tool. But for what exactly? The promise of something called a banking union? Or for the ritual humiliation of being patted on the back by foreigners every so often? Worse still, we have given away a legitimate policy tool so that our administration – our own government – can claim that it can’t do anything as the economy grinds to a halt and our young people are crushed.

Is this economic paralysis viable politically? Is the idea of Irish children growing up to be poorer than their parents for the first time since the famine something we want? Is there a political leader out there who is brave enough to tear up the script and recover Irish economic sovereignty? If not now, will one emerge championing the cause of a generation shafted by the choices being made on its behalf?

The really odd thing would be, not if Irish politics lurched in a totally new direction – but if it didn’t.

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  1. mogrady14

    Those on unemployment/disability/unemployed single parents need to unite to campaign for jobs.

    Why don’t people age 30-45 unite and talk about jobs and unemployment. Those over 45 have the country robbed e.g. (those in Planning Offices)and those under 30 are in Australia. FF, FG, Labour, SF, the Socialist party almost ignore the huge numbers on disability (250,000) and 450,000 on unemployment payments and 100,000 single parents not working- that is 800,000 people and their families.

    Is it not time to talk about mass unemployment? Its not even mentioned let alone acted on. Why can’t those age 30-45 years get the same benefits as those over 45 – things like jobs and pensions. The civil service/political parties are only looking after themselves.

    Those on unemployment/disability/unemployed single parents need to unite to campaign for jobs.

    • Grey Fox

      Are you suggesting that Civil Servants shouldn’t look after themselves? (I am talking about the bulk who are average industrial wage), if they don’t look after themselves, who will? or should they just simply join the unemployed and disabled in a neverending race to the bottom? in the name of what? savings the Bank’s?

      • It is widely accepted that the property Tax will be increased yearly, from now on,and used as a cash cow to claw more and more money from citizens, because the reform of the Public Service has been a total failure with the big Unions successfully “driving a coach and four” through the whole process.
        “The tax authorities will begin deducting the property tax from PAYE workers’ pay cheques in July.”
        If they have been empowered to do this, then there is no other category to describe this tax than a parallel form of “income tax”.
        It is however a tax not based on income,but on the valuation of one’s home.
        In that sense it is an asset or “wealth tax”, the wealth being the family home.
        Normally, an asset or wealth tax would target “wealthy” people with trophy homes and lots of assets.
        This tax targets everybody -but the effects will be felt particularly by the lower-middle class who will now pay a much higher proportion of their incomes than better paid workers,as this money is taken out of “after tax ” income.
        In effect it is a kind of “Tweaking” (a phrase, politicians are fond of nowadays) of the whole tax regime, so that the lower paid pay a higher proportion of their income in taxes than the better off in our communities.
        I believe this tax will be a “VAT on childrens shoes” disaster for Fine Gael and Labour, as soon as an angry electorate have an opportunity to express their feelings on the matter, particularly the Draconian manner in which the collection of same has been foisted on Revenue.
        There will certainly be legal challenges in the courts by those who are already in the poverty trap of low wages,and ever increasing “scattergun” style property (and soon water) taxes.
        One third of our citizens gave their response to the “household charge”.
        Their wishes have been ignored,and they have now been “forced fed” this new form of taxation,just as were hunger strikers in British gaols in the last century.
        The new Personal Insolvency legislation is also currently passing through Dail Eireann.
        After that -in the queue, is the new legislation correcting the incredible fiasco which removed from the banks the powers to seek summary orders for repossession of mortgage defaulters properties (Land and conveyancing Act 2009)
        We will see a Tsunami of repossession orders before the courts before the end of next year.
        We live in interesting times..

        • breltub

          A positively uplifting Monday message!

        • michaelcoughlan

          Re property tax.

          It’s not a property tax it’s an income tax. They will stop if from your wages if they don’t get it. If it were a property tax it would be levied on profits arising from property related activities which isn’t the case. You have to pay it whether you make a profit or a loss which means it’s an income tax. You are liable for it even if you don’t have income.

        • Bamboo

          Great summary, Thanks

    • redriversix

      Too much apathy

    • redriversix

      Too much apathy…..

      • molly

        One name comes to mind Nora Owen in her age an x td big pension lump sum,this person should be retired.
        Give the tv3 job/jobs to younger people,people who need a job,what’s wrong with this country.

        • Deco

          Chicken and egg scenario.

          Nora Owen is, in my mind, useless.

          But she represents a generation, and a state of mind that have done very well since the mid 1980s. Therefore she is useful in terms of connecting with the people who do have disposable income.

          For the rest of us, she is irrelevant.

    • Patrick

      Nothing is going to improve until our TD’s can get past discussing for a Week a conversation between a TD in a pink Tshirt and a Guard.
      These guys need to be dumped or the dole queue as soon as possible.

  2. While I agree with some of the article – there are a few skewed points.

    1) A very large part of why the young are poorer than the older generation is because the older generation were have been over generously rewarded with benefits and pensions – in addition to points re property. Solution there is to tax pensions and reduce benefits – but that is a political minefield.

    2) The Country must look to ways to create wealth within; and to encourage wealth to come in. To do that – the State needs to reduce Capital Taxation (which has been steadily increasing under the radar over the last 5 years).

    3) Negative Equity: With the introduction of the property tax it is now possible to get a snapshot of property values on the relevant date and therefore an accurate (assuming we are all honest) figure for negative equity. A novel option would be to transfer this negative equity as a charge on the property “going forward; and allow owners to remortgage on existing property values; and work out a mechanism to redeem that charge if property values increase before the next property tax valuation date in 2016 and beyond.

    Euro: We are in the Euro and I guess that’s what we have to accept until such time as it implodes (which it may not). It is a flawed project primarily because there was no banking supervision and too many countries were allowed in. Some countries should leave – but should one of them be Ireland – don’t know.

    China and South East Asia: So long as we have cheap goods manufactured under dreadful conditions in this part of the World – the Western “advanced” economies will continue to deflate (aka Japan) – and this contraction will make both our debts and job opportunities worse. Manufacturing is a form of wealth creation and preservation – and when I made this point to UCC business professor recently – i was told I was “old-fashioned”. Well – if the use of manufacturing for creating jobs is old fashioned – then I pity the new fashion of unemployment (myself included).

  3. Puschkin the Black and White Cat

    What can one say, I’m in my mid 50′s, I lost all my pension which I had paid for 35 years, some years up to 20%. I now live on a wage less than I earned in 1990. It’s not all the “young” who are forced to suffer.

    When I needed a house (1986) I didn’t queue up all night and pay 300% the value of the house. When I bought a house it did not get furnshed for 5 years. When I got married it was not a 30k honeymoon in Mauritius. My stag was 4 guys in a pub in Fenian street, not a multi Euro city hop costing 1000,s. I am even told these “young people” morons were spending 40-50k on the wedding.

    Ever think the word “young people” is a euphemism for “easy to brainwash morons without any fiscal maturity”.

    I look on this from the oppisite direction, I worked hard all my life, I worked for private sector and self-employed, my life was “steady”, now these “young people” with their pure greed and stupidity ruined my financial life and the life of my young daughter.

    F*&k them, they had their eyes wide open when they acted like a herd of thickos.

    • Lius


      I have a similar background to you except that I had to emigrate in 1983 for 7 years to get a deposit for a house and some experience to back-up my degree so that I could get a decent job back here.

      However these “easy to brainwash morons without any fiscal maturity” as you so call them are our sons and daughters who watched us struggle to get the little we now have.

      What I don’t understand is why can’t these Morons see reality like we did? Is it too much TV / Internet / Mobile Phone? How can they be so reckless with money, life, everything they have?

    • Grey Fox

      Puschkin, I understand and agree with you in principle but, the traps that were set for the “young people” by the financial institutions in conjunction with their complicit government allies, with their complicit media allies etc.. is the most disgusting, diabolical, insidious trap, which most fell into, it is not all their fault marketing and spin is increasingly difficult for the younger generation to resist, I see it with my own kids, educating them and trying to keep their heads on straight is a gargantuan task now, its not too difficult to convince a person to go ahead and do something they already want to do and have been programmed to do since a young age…..

      • Thriftcriminal

        I don’t know, I’m 40 and I saw though all the hype and shite. Well, more accurately I felt that something didn’t add up and my gut told me not to join the party, but to embrace prudence as much as possible. In that context I have no interest in paying for other peoples mistakes.

        • redriversix


          does nobody ask questions anymore or do research ! Thrift you are already paying for Banks…would it not be better to help each other..?

          It may be you someday ?

          • Puschkin the Black and White Cat

            A dealer only deals the drugs, I take them. The banks SHOULD have been regulated etc. But no bank forced anybody to queue up all night to foolishly pay 400% more than a house was worth.

            There was people saying stop, David was one, there were others.

            But no they wouldn’t listen.

            Of course given that our Banks are just reptilian filth, it’s now easy to see how they capitalised on and encouraged this madness.

            BUT I know no case of a person being forced.

          • paddythepig

            Your logic is warped.

            Banks are custodians for people’s money.

            Lose the bank, and lots of people lose out.

            This attempted abstraction of ‘banks’, and it juxtaposition against ‘the people’, is utterly false.

          • Dorothy Jones

            Delusional. paddythepig. Arthur Cox would like to hire you no doubt.

          • Dorothy Jones

            On second thoughts…nah..

      • Bamboo

        Grey Fox, Lius” I agree here with what you are saying.

        I am in my late 50′s and fall in the “lucky” catogary I guess.
        I do think that the Young Generation have done what other generations have done before them. They did what was generally the thing to do in their generation as any generation have done in the past and will do so in the future. Education, family, buy house,etc and of course try to make the best out of what life can offer and their circumstances.

        Who would not do it? If you didn’t then you are regarded as a looser. Everybody will see the bright side of the future and that future was often a family and a home. Unless you are suffering from depression.
        The banks and Govenment pumped it into your brains.

        Puskin, How can you look at young the younger generation as a “herd of thickos”?

    • Fredafelcher1

      Your attitude is why we are unable to break free of this mess. Fk you jack, I’m ok mentality. So what if you lost your pension, you were a lot older and wiser and shouldve known better. My generation had no choice but to stump up and buy at inflated prices thus wiping us out when the crash came. How exactly can you have a family home in your childhood bedroom eh? You and your ilk deserve to be flogged for your selfish me feiner attitude. We got screwed by your generation splashing cash on houses and driving up the prices as status symbols, all we wanted was a home. You make me ashamed to be an Irishman you b*stard

      • paddythepig

        ‘My generation had no choice?’

        The one thing you didn’t have a choice about was to get a place to live. But you did have a choice about whether to buy. Couldn’t you have rented?

        • Colin


          Apparently renting is not a choice for any self respecting upwardly mobile Irishman. I mean, what would the work colleagues think?

          • Dorothy Jones

            Ah your Kilburn mates are fat on the back of the crap they threw up here.

          • Colin


            Why don’t you go and visit Kilburn and see for yourself whether
            a) They are fat and got rich riding the celtic tiger.
            b) They threw up crap in Ireland.
            c) They are my mates.

            I guess you are wrong on all counts, but its very easy to hide behind a keyboard.

          • Dorothy Jones

            Grow a pair ‘Colin’ post under your real name sometime Princess Tinymeat

          • Colin

            I proudly possess a pair fully grown, you’re welcome anytime to inspect Dot.

    • crobar

      Really. That’s how you see it.

      So because I was stupid enough to wait until my wife and I had a good career before starting a family ( and deciding to buy a home ) I am a selfish moron. Really. I didnt want to commute 4 hours a day to work ( which i did for 3 years ) and decided we should buy a house in Dublin, so me my wife and two kids could start our life. House prices had been rising for 5 straight years so we bought. I am in the private sector and I work hard and so does my wife. We have two kids, and cant afford any more. Our lives have been put on a complete hold due to the recklessness of the banks, and the government and to hear selfish ass like you describe me as a moron is not only insulting but incredibly naive.

      • paddythepig

        You have a house where you want to live. You say you and your wife both work in good careers. How is your life on ‘complete hold’?

        • crobar

          The house was of course built badly, on pyrite as it happens, on top of that the carpets are worn to the threads and two of the kitchen doors have fallen off. We have lived there 5 years. We cannot afford to get anything fixed, we are going to be paying off negative equity for 30 years. With hindsight of course what we did was a bad decision but at the time we had been renting for several years are there was no sign of it abating.

          • paddythepig

            I have sympathy regarding the pyrite.

            But worn carpets are not the end of the world. And surely you could borrow a screwdriver from someone and re-hang the doors.

          • breltub

            Pyrite – Fools gold!
            How apt!
            The pyrite property bubble, that is what we had!

          • Dorothy Jones

            I’m sure you do paddythepig. You haven’t a clue mate. Get real.

        • Dorothy Jones

          Eh Pyrite….D’ya get it lads? Bit of a problem. Get that eejit Juanjor to write a Ber report for Colin and the mates in Kilburn. Probably the same shower who threw up that shit in the first place. Tom McFeeley is having a hard time with all of this so paddythepig can surely put some of the FHC funds which he owns into that fund.

          • Colin


            You’re acting the eejit again. Calm down will ya. I’ve never been involved in residential construction. I’m not a builder, I’m a civil engineer, there is a huge difference. My work has taken me to skyscraper (office) sites, railway station sites, electrical substation sites, and piling in marine environment sites.

            So, I’ve never seen a BER Report.

            For the record, I would love to see Tom McFeeley spend the rest of his days in solitary confinement in Mountjoy. His projects are they way they are because of poor technical supervision. Shit happens when you are too tight to pay for proper site management.

      • Colin


        Did you lobby your TD to raise your difficulty in affording a nice house in a desireable area?

        Did you organise any street demos about being priced out of the market?

        Did you ‘talk to Joe’ on Liveline about it?

        Did you ever consider life could be better elsewhere, in Ireland or Abroad?

        Did you read David’s articles and stop and consider maybe he is right?

        I reckon once you jumped on the property ladder you couldn’t give a toss about those who weren’t able to.

        • fred

          It looks as if many ordinary people have been really left high and dry regardless of their age and are suffering. The youth have no jobs and are emigrating (something that the government seems unconcerned about); the 30-45 group have massive mortgages and even if they are lucky enough to have decent jobs have no money left after mortgage/creches (these are the lucky ones still with a job compared to those without who can’t make these payemts); the older group who have seen their pensions decimated and stolen from by the government; the senior citizens who often are voluntarily working as childminers to help their children (and who will probably be more targetted in coming budgets. And all this why? It seems to me it is because the banks (generalisation as all my points are) gambled big time and lost. Except they didn’t loose (by and large as capitalism would suggest). Their losses were nationalised and foisted upon all of us in different ways. What does the government hope to do to solve this? Place this debt on the european public with the emergency funds and to help the banks get more profitable (this will be achieved by more charges being placed on us again) so they can be sold. There are lots of different ways in which all of the age groups have been robbed in order to ensure the “banks” are profitable. We have to look at this as a common problem that effects all of us directly. How do we do this? I have no idea. This feeling of helplessness is what really demoralises me and many more I am sure. Any ideas on what we really can do?

        • crobar

          “I reckon once you jumped on the property ladder you couldn’t give a toss about those who weren’t able to.”

          What the hell is that supposed to mean? Was I supposed to not buy a house because other people couldnt ? And no i didnt read David Mcwilliams, or listen to liveline or even read the papers, you know why? Because I was working my fucking ass off and at the same time commuting 4 hours a day and bringing up two small children. I dont want your pity or even a sense of comradeship for your countryman but I will not take your lousy insults asshole.

          • Colin

            Oh, that’s too bad you never stopped to consider what’s it all about. Your mistake, don’t take it out on me.

            You bought your house, your choice. You do know now it was a ponzi scheme, don’t you? Those who enter the pyramid scheme, need newcomers to come along after them to push them up the pyramid. Think about it…. oh sorry, you don’t like thinking about things do you?

            I’m not a communist, so keep your comradeship to yourself.

      • crobar

        the more I read the replies here the more I see why the country is doomed, the banks were incredibly irresponsible they gave out mortgages to anyone, this drove up the prices to insane levels, we were waiting to get our house for 3 years, then finally we got it, now its worth nothing. And to make it all worse my fellow countrymen take pleasure in knowing that a large proportion of the population have been screwed by this. So give yourselves another pat on the back, you didn’t make the same mistake that me and the other spoilt, morons did.

        • Bamboo

          Crobar, well said. +1

        • Dorothy Jones

          They’re not countrymen. A builder in Kilburn and someone who posts under paddythepig?? Come on, don’t let that shower in.

          • Colin

            Correct Dot, No, I’m not a bogger, I’m from an urban environment. I’m not from Kilburn, never lived there either. I’m not a builder either.

            What’s the problem here, did some cheeky Irish chippy break your heart and leave you for a London Lass?

          • paddythepig

            Poor old Dorothy lives in a dreamworld where she imagines the lives of other posters, based on her own rather bizarre assumptions.

            Earth calling Dorothy.

    • Maeve Harrison-Barbet

      Yours (Puschkin Black and white cat) are mainly my sentiments too!

    • mcsean2163

      Not very nice Mr Puschkin.

      Is that what you say to someone when they make a mistake? If so, maybe you should consider taking a course in manners.


    Anyone on this blog need a counterfeit Rolex?

  5. Paddy Cullivan

    Yes. We are the ‘Lost Generation’, like the people I met in Croatia whose young lives were destroyed by war. And this is no different to a war, really. Simple bank regulation would have stopped people from being given mortgages for €400,000 for a family home. Greed was minimal for this group, most people wanted to get on the ladder and have a home to raise their families – there are not many rental properties that are acceptable in Ireland.

    This is why, any time I hear the words ‘Caveat Emptor’ I answer it immediately with ‘Caveat Argentarius’ (banker beware). These self-same banks who over-lent, then got bailed out and now send threatening letters or turn up on the doorsteps of their frightened victims – seem to take no blame for what happened and are fully backed up by the power of the state. The point about losing hope is a very valid one, because without hope people will either leave or fight. Maybe this time around Ireland can have a real revolution. And what Theo Dorgan calls the State Class ‘for whom the rest of us don’t matter’ (bar when they need us as a revenue flow) can finally be dispensed with.

  6. Cassandra

    Thanks David.
    With the help of this article I am further on the road to changing a second major life perspective.
    The first was to set aside my athiestic belief (oxy-moron?), after I asked myself the other day, what is the point of this existence without a God head and all that entails? (excluding the Church and all that entails)
    The second, thanks to this article, is to start the melting of my polar-ised belief in ‘caveat emptor’ when it comes to personalised debt and the property market. As someone who predicted everything (predictably) I had up to this point wanted all stupidity punished accordingly with no escape allowed. However, with young citizens of my own on their way into society in the next 10 years, your article has struck a chord and I now see that such an uncompromising standpoint it self destructive. I no longer want Rome to burn just to create a new citadel as it is naive to think there would be no personal collateral damage. Maybe a firm thrashing is enough and based on your words above perhaps this is already underway and it is time to lift the rod from the fool’s back. I will begin a new conversation now with those nearest and dearest which will express a different perspective. I still fear there will be more than a couple of hostage takers freed with the hostages if we forgive debt but the risk will be worth it in the medium run.


  7. joe hack

    You articulate we need a revolution but you don’t dare utter it???

    A revolution is vital there will be no changes coming from the infected political class the young need to involve themselves in their society.
    Some expect a gift and when it not forthcoming they don’t stay and fight, they complain about Ireland and run off to another country with a tax payer education in their pockets.

    Who and what is Ireland? flight has become habit forming since the famine – Stay and fight nationalism has is merits be proud and stay and fight..

    How I miss lady Lavery – having your own currency defines a nation which we are not now, Ireland is just annoying appendage with now self determination – surgery is necessary.


    It’s not a right that the PREVIOUS generation should be less well off than the subsequent one.)

    • Colin

      Why don’t you walk into an Irish pub in Kilburn or Archway and shout at the top of your voice that ‘Some expect a gift and when it not forthcoming they don’t stay and fight, they complain about Ireland and run off to another country with a tax payer education in their pockets’, and wait for the reaction.

      • crobar

        You are an expert at generalization and horseshit Colin. Only young single people have the option of leaving the country and many like myself cannot and do not want to anyway. I assume the wise old man that you are you know that many left during the 80′s were they also cowards that didnt stay and fight, how about the famine, more cowards i guess. Only a brave young asshole such as yourself who has never made a bad decision would not do that.

        • Colin


          Thanks for the kind words.

          What’s stopping you moving to UK, or to the continent? There is freedom of movement in the EU.

          I’ve been forced to emigrate, twice, currently in exile.

          Your beef is with Mr Hack, not me, if you feel sympathetic to emigrants. Mr Joe Hack thinks they are cowards to leave. I challenged him to make that point to emigrants personally, and then he said he doesn’t want me to comment on his comments anymore, so that’s that.

          So, calm down, and don’t get so confused.

          • Dorothy Jones

            Leave to get away from the wives Colin? Hope life good in Kilburn. Life good for emigrants there?

          • Colin

            Dot, I never married an Irish girl. Life is good but I’ve never lived in Kilburn, but I’m sure its good there too, why not visit and find out first hand, €40 ryanair flight will take care of that.

            Regarding spousal arrangements, I’m sure you’ll meet some Irishmen in Kilburn who are glad they don’t have a nagging keeping up with the Joneses type at them all day long.

        • Eireannach

          “only young, single people have the option of leaving the country”.

          With this sentence, Crobar, you reveal what a spoilt brat you are.

          Most of the Nigerians who move to Ireland are married with young families, for example.

          • crobar

            another idiotic statement. so you are saying I should abandon Ireland and leave my debt behind. How is my wanting to live in Ireland where my family and friends are make me a spoilt brat? Another fool talking out his ass.

          • Dorothy Jones

            You do a great job for the country posting under that name. Eire…. What a heap of shit.

  8. mogrady14

    Why keep bankrolling the older generation – those over 45-65. They robbed the country with their cute hoor regulation and shenanigans in the Health Boards, Civil Service and Planning Office. Can we expect integrity from the Civil Service? Who are they looking after? (Only themselves and their families-hence the neptoism). Why keep funding neptoism? Can the Civil Service be trusted?

    The older generation was lucky. They could emigrate. Those over 30 are finding it difficult to emigrate. My friend who is 39 and has 17 years Engineering experience tried to emigrate to Australia. He got jobs but not sponsorship. So, he came back. Its easier for those under 30 to get visas. Many of the houses bought for investment were bought by the over 45. The houses bought to live in were bought by the 30-45 year olds.

    The generation 45-65 years robbed the country.

    • redriversix


      lets divide society..blame our neighbours,the unemployed ,Civil Servants..

      Let this Vichy Government win..ignore The Banks and their corrupt accounting.

      Lets tear each other apart as the 1% look down from their Ivory tower & congratulate each other on a job well done.

      This is no longer a is a planned event and its working very well..Banks more powerful now than ever..No incentive to change & why should they..? would you ?

      Another thing…it is way too quiet out their in Media land…

    • joe hack

      I did not rob you and I am not robbing you now!

      Where does fifty years old emigrate to with 34 years of engineering experience yes I work from the age of sixteen.

      Don’t try to divide our society young people are much more capable make their own future as past generations.

      I got a bath once a week and to heat it we boiled kettles of water I bathed in the same water my older sisters had bathed in and it was cold be then – central heating was rare we eventually got an immersion heater.

      Your reality is warped

      30 was old when I was young at 18 you were a man we had no choices.

      • crobar

        So you were poor, well welcome to the club mate, so was I, the difference is I worked my ass off to get a good education and even harder again in my career to get where I am , I had a modest wedding and we started a family as soon as we could. I think you would prefer if everyone lived in the dark ages like when we were kids and there was no progress, I dont want my kids to have the hard upbringing I had, maybe thats what you want for yours.

        • Bamboo

          Crobar, I agree with you. See my comments above in you’re interested.

        • Colin

          So, apart from a couple of doors that need to be re-hung and some wear and tear on the carpets, what is your problem?

          With your good education and strong work ethic, you should be progressing well up the corporate ladder. Is it only the property ladder that isn’t progressing well?

          You do seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Get rid of it, life is better without one. Learn to take criticism constructively. Open your mind.

    • Maeve Harrison-Barbet


  9. redriversix

    Edward Luce in todays FT wants Larry Sommers to replace Bernanke as Fed Chairman..!!!

    you couldn’t make this shit up…This will piss BonBon OFF big time as “Larry” is the guy who repealed Glass Steagall act in 99.


    London won their first Connacht championship game in 36 years yesterday. Demonstrates how many young Irish people now live in the south east of England. even in the eighties they couldn’t win a game. The biggest obstacle facing young Irish people is trying to compete in the domestic labour market with experienced Irish and foreign workers. Allowing limitless eastern europeans, soon to be augmented by Bulgarians and Romanians is disastrous for many Irish private sector staff. As usual, the unions helped create this mess, in connivince with the rest of the establishment. C

    • markodxb

      the irish drank too much in the eighties. lay down the shovel, but not the cigarette, and straight to the bar. now they are bankers, accountants, lawyers, engineers etc… sure we still drink but we are more aware of fitness etc.

  11. I’m always surprised when economist talk of too much debt in the economy. For there to be money in the economy someone has to be in debt to a bank for that amount.

    If we took on less debt, with what medium of exchange would we trade?

    Another point is that central banks can do less than you might think to implement their policies. The Bank of England is a good example since its pumping the banks with central bank money. However this type of money is not in general circulation. After that all the central banks can do is try to encourage people to take on more debts but this only delays the debt crisis – It doesn’t resolve it.

    Monetising Government spending would though and there is no reason, economically speaking or otherwise, why Governmment surplus spending should have to be matched with an even higher debt also. I still haven’t met anyone who can explain how the debt crisis can be resolved under the debt-based system.

    • 5Fingers

      Money created by lending left the economy. It is not a closed system. We bought stuff from abroad like fuel, cars, etc.

      So you can have high debt and no money.

  12. Hi David,

    I hear that according to some random poll, FF and FG are neck and neck. I have no idea how to interpret this. Also, it seems to be rioting season in plenty of European countries at the moment (even the Swedes are at it). I have occasional discussions with an Irish friend here and we conjure up ridiculous scenarios, some positive, some violent, some pessimistic, about what may unfold in Ireland. Complete nonsense of course, but Gedankenexperimente, as the locals say. If Ireland was ever to have a moment of collective epiphany, I rather suspect it would have happened already after five years of this lunacy.

    Whatever happens, I will most likely remain physically dislocated from it all, though I am fully aware, as you point out, that Ireland is an extreme case of what will happen in most industrialised countries a few years down the road.

    “Is there a political leader out there who is brave enough to tear up the script and recover Irish economic sovereignty?” Yes, the trouble is (s)he is in an architect’s office in Vancouver, or running a restaurant in Sydney.

    • Adelaide

      Ditto. We have similar discussions “about what may unfold in Ireland” in my job place but we take it one grim step further and bet money on it. The prediction must occur by a certain date.

      The Irish Troika bail-out was my biggest win. Anyhow, the largest pot is for Ireland to be officially designated by the UN as a ‘Failed State’ by Jan 2017. Yes, it’s macabre but it facilitates serious discussions.

  13. Adam Byrne


  14. markodxb

    I am a proud Irish Nationalist and I do empathize with you David. But baring the often brutality of british occupation history has shown that 1 of our worst economic periods was post independence under Eamon Dev. Things did not really seem to improve until we started to gravitate towards Europe. Bear in mind lots of Euro grants on infrastructure and the like, we did a deal with the Devil if you like! While I am at pains to say it to counter your arguement, we did bad on our own before…

    on the other hand if we never had joined the EU maybe the same prosperity may have been enjoyed on the back of world economic growth. At the time did we even have to adopt the Euro, what do you think?

    • Colin

      Why are you a proud Irish Nationalist? What is there to be particularly proud of? Riverdance? Guinness? Stew?

  15. michaelcoughlan


    You end the article by asking the following question “Is there a political leader out there who is brave enough to tear up the script and recover Irish economic sovereignty”.

    The question is a complete cop out. Are you waithing for the tooth fairy or a knight in Shining armour? Leadership starts with the person themselves.

    Demonstrate leadership by:

    1)Developing positive thoughts and concepts.
    2) Act where you can to implement your ideas however small so that you can help and inspire others to do likewise.
    3)Discard negative thought processes situations and individuals who will only drain you of your energy.
    4)Act in a manner which is not injurious to you or anyone else. This includes not endlessly bitching about the scumbags who have landed us in all this as there is enough blame to go around.
    5)Find what your passion is and pursue it. Your energy level will increase without you even noticing as you will be doing something you love doing.
    6)do the things you enjoy doing and discard the thrash.
    7) Make a Conscious effort to not act like a victim. Although you may actually be a victim getting really angry about it will make your problem worse. This is difficult to do in practice but at least make a start.

    That’s a start. You can only control yourself no one else. I hope you will see that in making this post I have tried to take my own advice and I sincerely hope it helps someone somewhere.

  16. gizzy

    No matter who you judge who you blame who you empathise with who you want to help who you couldn’t give a damn about who you want to have punished etc etc

    From a society and economy and even banking viewpoint this will not be solved without a major holistic debt solution. We will not solve this on a case by case basis without ruining the country for at least another generation.

    Based on the opinion of a citizen with twenty years Banking experience.

  17. Colin

    Its obvious why the 30 – 45 group haven’t organised themselves in a political way. Everyone is a Me Feiner. Some in the 30 – 45 bracket will inherit their parent’s wealth soon, others later, so why upset the apple tart as Bertie used to say.

    Say you are 45, bought your house in 2000, its just edging slightly into negative equity. Your Dad is 75, your Mum 73, he was a garda, she a teacher, they live in a 3 bed Semi in a desirable part of town where prices haven’t fallen as much in value, shops, schools and churches are nearby, and there is a sizeable front and back garden. They are both drawing down large pensions. They do not live an extravagant lifestyle. They are mortgage free, no longer need a car and have free travel on public transport, they pay health insurance, but have bucket loads of money left over each week, say €400. So follow the money…. where is it going? its staying in the family of course, helping out the grandchildren. Who will inherit the house and bank deposits? The 45 year old who sensibly doesn’t want to rock the boat.


    • joe hack

      I guess that’s it sorted Mr Simples

      • Colin

        I’m afraid the truth is hard to digest if you don’t like it Mr Hack off

        • joe hack

          Your Ad hominae demonstrates a lack of intelligence and wit and you named called me yesterday and not for the first time you then sign off as Simples.

          Don’t feel obliged to comment on my comments you won’t impress me.

          • Colin

            This isn’t a game. I’m not here to impress anyone.

            Nothing wrong with saying simples. Is that offensive to Atheists? Dear God, oh sorry, I mustn’t mention the G word.

            I’m happy not to comment on your comments, but just like to point out you have hijacked my thread here.

            You lose the argument and then you want to take the ball home – fair enough, off with you then.

            Now good luck with everything Mr hack off.

    • pauloriain

      Very good analysis & insight. Chances are though, inheritance tax is going to become a bigger feature in the years to come as the government looks for ever increasing ways to plug the fiscal deficit, so the inheritance plan is not assured by any means.

      • Colin

        I agree, inheritance tax is one to watch out for, but since it is effectively a tax on un-earned wealth, I think its progressive if VAT is cut and should help keep property porn in its place by cooling the property market.

        Watch out for huge lobbying by our friends in the Farming Community, boy do they know how to organise. Special concessions will be conceeded in handing over the precious land from generation to generation.

      • paddythepig

        They have already increased inheritance tax from 25 to 33 percent, and they have tightened the bands too.

        Colin, the person passing on the inheritance has earned the money, so it cannot be fairly tagged as unearned. True the person receiving it hasn’t earned it, but then neither has the state or all its dependents.

        I think the money should really go to wherever the deceased person wished it to go, providing it was honestly earned. If it is honestly earned, tax at zero percent. If not, tax at 100 per cent.

        When i die, i wouldn’t want my few quid taken to pay our profligate government. I would want it distributed to my nearest and dearest.

        • Dorothy Jones

          Yep. And the nearest and dearest spent it all…
          Without any pressure from Govt…all by themselves.
          The ones who dont cut hedges, mow lawns, cook meals or wipe their own

        • Dorothy Jones

          As FHC is a theme, you’ll have your FHC money to put to it I assume? Every shivering penny

    • Reality Check

      100% agree Colin, This is the REALITY, some can’t accept it, some are in denial.
      Your comments are excellent – Keep speaking the truth as you see it.

    • bonbon

      Now the purveyor of truth is a KISS guy, keep-it-simple-stupid!

      Avoiding the obvious truth that the banks must be split, a very big deal, and going after ordinary people is simply, truthfully cowardice.

      Why have’nt people organised? Well much the same cowardice which comes from the “little me”.

      Now truthfully, “little guy”, that is a circus.

      Glass-Steagall, a truthfully major league action, is not a license to go after folk “because we cannot do it”.

      The “reality” is for cowards, always very good with real reasons to do nothing.

      • Colin

        Does it upset you that others admire my comments? Am I stealing the limelight from you Mr bonbon? Is that why you put labels on me and words in my mouth?

        • bonbon

          Many admire the “little me”, after all that is the trick used in the 1930′s in Germany. Upsetting that is indeed.

          Robespierre also played the “little me” card, Citoyen, after being trained in London as Edgar Allen Poe exposed.

          • Colin

            bonbon, please tell me some more stories about Nazi Germany in the 30s, upsetting as it all is and what was Hitler’s position on Glass-Steagall?

            If you like, I can preface every comment I make in future with a longing for the return of Glass Steagall, anything to disassociate myself from supporting Nazis.

            Will that keep you happy? I’ll even credit you mr bonbon.

          • bonbon

            Now that you bring up Hitler, Hayek, Keynes and Friedman’s favorite, look at Schachtian Economics, Hitler’s policy. Schacht, austerity queen, was a banker, head of BIS, which makes Hitler a bankers boy.

            No surprise then that Bank of England chief Montague Norman and Prescott Bush (granpa) funded the 1932 NSDAP election.

            This is “little me” economics and we all know where that leads – the U.S.E, where work makes you free.

            Think big like FDR, strategic sweeping policy, youth will thank you! No childish acting-out accepted!

  18. Grey Fox

    There’s gonna have to be a COMPROMISE!!!!
    (But not the Personal Insolvency Legislation)
    Everything! is eventually settled in a compromise!

    • bonbon

      You think you can compromise with Empire, that is Chamberlain all over again, compromise in our time.

      I’m afraid that looks like the FG official policy. It will not work.

    • joe hack

      Compromise that a Grey area the results are gray too – look what happened when they introduced the grey squirrel – squirrels are now grey and no one is happy especially the indigenous red heads.

  19. Adelaide

    The two ends of this article don’t meet up. Problem v Solution.

    David presents the global economic challenge facing us, A) disruptive technological change (your job is now done by a machine-computer) B)globalization (your job is now done by Dariqe in Pakistan). Which eventually leads to C) Darique’s job is inevitably done by a machine/pc.

    Constantin Gurdgiev in yesterday’s Sunday Times calculated that when one factors in emigration/training/schemes/etc our true unemployment figure is/would be 33% unemployment/underemployment.

    David’s solution for Ireland is to return to our own currency and thereby unburden the country’s debt in all its forms. I believe this will be an inevitability and a positive move and it will solve problems particular to Ireland, but will it create plentiful of meaningful wealth-creating job?

    If Monetary machinations created ‘real’ jobs then by that logic all countries would have 100% employment. Simply by adapting a suitable monetary policy a country can replenish its jobs that are being supplanted by globalization and mechanization/digitization?

    Money is redundant in the future of machines.

    • bonbon

      “Machines”? Are you parroting some end-timer?

      Much better to have a look at a metaphor, something machines know is beyond their ken (ex-Tigers too?) :

      The Triple Curve

      You must know Gödel blew the “machine” bulls*it sky high with his Incompleteness proof. Metaphor, truths no machine can possibly conceive of is uniquely our human heritage. Power machines, using ever higher energy density are our unique activity, and there is no limit there. Real economics starts then.

    • joe hack

      Excellent Adelaide, I like! But there will still be those who control the machines as resources are limited and whether we like it or not, an ever increasing population is not sustainable unless we find resources. I also agree that money as we know it will be thing of the past and it will be machines and communications that bring this about.

      I hope to live to see this

  20. Original-Ed

    This we alone thing is so yesterday – if we had control over our own economic levers, there’s not much there to level.
    Look around you, almost everything we consume is now imported – devalue the currency and the cost of energy and consumer goods would go through the roof – import substitution would take eons to get off the ground as we don’t have the necessary manufacturing skills anymore – lots of third level graduates yes, but no practical skills – we’re now a plug and play economy. Even high end multinational manufacturing is primarily automated or is only final assembly and can be plugged into a power source anywhere in the world so long as the tax rate is acceptable.

    As for that UCC business professor – his outrageous salary is being subsidised by excellent German manufacturing – perhaps his comments were made with the knowledge that we’re not up to it, otherwise he’s just another overpaid egg head who can bullshit away without any accountability.

    It’s not too difficult to compare life before the industrial revolution and after. All the old professions were there beforehand, law, accounting, teaching, scribes, quacks, etc. and very little was happening. But then the spark of applied science set the place alight and we’ve been benefiting ever since. Remove that magic and the music dies.

    Law, accounting, etc. rode the wave as though it was all their doing but now the chickens have come home to roost.

    It’s the unrealistic expectations of the younger generation that I find is most peculiar – things are supposed to be as they want them to be and not as they actually are.

    It’s obviously as a result of the glorious bubble years where reality could be suspended and living made easy.

    The only way we’re going to get full employment in the foreseeable future is to adopt the old soviet model of central planning where management pretend to manage and workers pretend to work and we all know where that leads to.

    • bonbon

      You are surely not proposing a Soviet? Well we have one – what do you think Brussels is – green central planning (not red), biofuel windy quota’s, uniform bank bail-in’s. DMcW does see the monetarist aspect – that “Banking Union”, better termed the U.S.E where work makes you free. But is DMcW missing the green underbelly?

      Green Monetarism, that ancient practice, cannot co-exist with a modern agro-industrial society. That’s the rub.

  21. bonbon

    Guess why Iceland Indefinitely Suspends EU Accession Talks?

    Iceland and Argentina are in their own ways firmly getting the message across. Our President Michael D. has stated with crystal clarity the cause of the disaster sweeping the transatlantic (and now Japan, I might add) – the repeal of Glass-Steagall.

    DMcW, we will not “park” synthetic debt, we will write it off, that includes all derivative paper. Legitimate debt, caused by 40 years of physical economic collapse and neglect, will be honored by national commitments to progress, based on Hamiltonian credit for improvements.

    With this approach there is no limit to what we can achieve.

    • breltub

      I totally agree with you on the synthetic debt. It is fraud pure and simple and must be burned. This off balance sheet stuff is more of the same crap

      • bonbon

        2 things off-balance-sheet: that toxic IOU junk, but also the sheer destruction of the physical economy, per-capita, per-hectare.

        We will honor the economy, we must. Energy, water, healthcare, transport, per-capita, per hectare, but most important Gigawatt power, per cubic meter. We must make a jump there. The windy preachings from Royals to parties, must be seen for what it is.

        Contracting credit (after severing the balance sheet) would prevent exactly that recovery, when we are weakest, a very nasty deadly swipe out of the blindspot, today’s utter incapacity to reason economically.

    • Bonbon,

      Benoît Cœuré mentioned the Glass-Steagall act in a recent speech.

      • bonbon

        They have no choice, Glass-Steagall, FDR’s approach is the way to go. BUT did you read the rest of the article – it’s all about the Banking Union! They are trying to go ahead with this, implying it is the U.S.E. A total fraud.

        “A key resolution tool included in the Directive, one that all authorities should have, is the possibility of bailing in by creditors. Bailing-in is conducive to achieving a specific policy goal, namely that the burden of bank failures should be borne first and foremost by the private sector, rather than the taxpayer.”

        To claim this is the FDIC method is simply a lie.

  22. joe hack


    Young against old private against public divide and concur?
    It’s not a right that a PREVIOUS generation should be less well off than a following one.
    It is not a right that the present generation should better off than the previous generation.

    Welcome to life you have to fight to survive it.

    Some of the people that I worked with got married in 2005 they were spending 50 + thousand on their weddings including fireworks displays and 15 thousand on honey moons. The money did not come from saving hard it came from loans 100 times more than my generation spent on weddings.

    Those of the past worked hard so that their children would be better off and that has been the case.

    There were no fat people around when I was a kid and we started work at 16. we did we have cars to drive two minutes down the road to pick up a pizza or to drop plastic off to a recycle center, although we did have fast food but we had to be faster than it to catch it.

    • joe hack

      Divide and Conquer

    • bonbon

      Divide anything, religion, age, BUT the banks, seems to be DMcW’s Way.

      Say it ain’t so DMcW.

    • Reality Check

      Funny, I saw a ten year old “princess” walking to school with her Aunt. “Princess” was sipping on a large travel mug of coffee while the aunt was carrying the “heavy” school bag for her.
      I wonder would you see this kind of carryon in a central European country?
      And people wonder why there is an entitlement attitude problem here?
      A lot of people still need to drink a long tall glass of “Grow the F**K up!”

  23. Bamboo

    What I understand from this article.
    The essence – back to our own currency is the answer to our prayers. That means leaving the Euro, which means leaving the EU or become some other type of member, and if so a good reason for other member states to be disgruntled.

    Question is: Will it be allowed to happen? If yes, when can we start on this process of back to our own currency.

    For the moment the answer is NO – because the EU says so.

  24. joe hack

    It’s revolution season and schools out for summer!

    A country does not need permission from the EU / EZ to leave the EZ it just needs balls.

    Saying it does sums up Ireland’s attitude!

    We lost our balls a while back when the majority of this country denied its past nation builders the results are evident we live in a blue-rinse country and the people dare not speak.

    Go on David, Say it, say we need a revolution you’re so close to saying but you fear the blue-rinse brigade of the independent and you know it’s the youth that must lead this but they not here.

    Why not start the domino effect here in Ireland.

    David, Say it and stop pussy footing

  25. 5Fingers

    I am not sure if the idea was to provoke a row among bloggers – between young and old and between people who are trying to sort out their lives and those who are smug about it. The Article’s blog activity certainly has been one of the more rowdy. Sad thing is that I think everyone is missing the point – including our host.

    Monetary policy will do nothing – aside from the fact we do not control the currency, it is a fallacy to believe you can control such in a global economy. It worked in the past because a) debts were issued locally (unlike now) and b)there was a time delay (which no longer exists in today’s world) between lowering local costs and competition catching up – which allowed you collect profits to rebuild.

    I really hate it when people point the finger at one another for bad judgement or being stupid. It is the height of gross arrogance to assume everyone was stupid at once. There a tendency here to repaint cowardice as prudence. On old versus young – errr…guys yer all getting ould. Get used to it.

    What people forget is that bullets have been replaced by data. Big Data. Big data has been responsible for offering mega-cheap mortgages and manipulating your expectations. Bankers are just a tiny part of the game (sorry David – but economics … it’s tiny too). Why? It’s about opportunity spotting. That’s what big data does. Poeple with big data access can shape an economic landscape in weeks based on all the data we freely feed into it…via our credit cards and lately via our use of social media…like this one.

    Who owns big data…big government, corporations etc. Yeah, you lot and the youth will do reasonably well sharing your ideas and building your reputations and bartering little things here and there…even David looks at Ireland like that – a little guy benefiting from the crumbs (Nice Big Vision David!!). But the reality is with Big Data, the real formal owners decide the shots…where the manufacturing goes, what ponzi can be activated where for a quick win. You are all being herded and now you’re fight among yourselves. Wake up!

    • joe hack

      Mr Fingers is it possible that the war on terror has worked on you are you been controlled? Will we comply with more spying on society even while the cause and effect is not been debated.

      • 5Fingers

        Don’t get me wrong. There is no conspiracy at all. The herding/ the centralization of formal ownership are a derivative of what has happened before. Indeed, war on terror or plain old health and safety are again other buttons to move us along to encourage you to consume in the “right” way.

        So what happened? How did all this come about? In a nut shell, sales/ marketing has become a science and the means of production have become very finely engineered. Result: You get out maneuvered by those who have the best data. It is how you sell loans or clothes or holidays or burgers. And fear and envy are well known prod points.

        Years ago, and even today such mass info collection would help us a great deal. But it can also be used to manipulate to the point where your say is irrelevant. There are no laws to combat it. You can beat up all the banks you like, and call as many people stupid as much as you like – politicians included, sad fact is…unless you can get your hands around the insatiable data gathering apparatus and put good law around it, you might as well be pi$$ing into a volcano to put it out.

        • joe hack

          I concur one of the terror wars is advertisement but still it better to ‘piss in a volcano’ than not to.

          Have you just pissed in the volcano by mentioning it you may have made one person aware-a good start!

          Now when your blander is full again we might be able to piss in tandem a pincer or pisser manoeuvre maybe. Size won’t mater but the amount of bladder will, anti advertising bladder may save 123…

          So regulation is necessary we can all piss together and put that volcano out before it blows up in our children s faces again. ‘The War Advertisement’ let not be defeatist ‘a piss in time’… ‘Many Pisses Make Volcano Extinct’ etc…

          Some people freedoms have imprisoned others

          In Russia allot of people miss the USSR they felt safe in its blanket they knew they had a job and a roof over their head. Up to 65 % at different times wanted to return to a USSR style leadership some particularly the older people craved this type of leadership – see David article above… and the leader ship we have here as you have suggested is advertisement.

          They did a survey of past leaders of the USSR and guess you was least liked Gorbachev and Yeltsin Lenin and Brezhnev were top of the pile with believe or Stalin not too far behind.

          (That why Putin was popular they felt safe the big western data would have you believe otherwise – alcoholism in Russia proves different story)

          How many pisses did it take to bring down Gorbachev Mubarak?

          as coffee a diaritice every piss count the coffee pot is on

          • 5Fingers

            Root cause. Do not be side stepped by old philosophies. Youre right about the psychology, youre wrong (I claim) about the method for change.

    • bonbon

      Big Data, is now the perpetrator? The neo-cons and neo-liberals used to say Big Gov’t. There is a Big Crash on alright though, not caused by data, big or small, not even a big lot of Bits, 0s and 1s.

      The Big Lie, as Goebbels said, the bigger, the more believe it, is that the banks are not responsible, and the Biggest Lie is that Glass-Steagall would not have stopped the crashes. That lie is so Big, that the gullible do a Goebbels swallowing it.

      Glass-Steagall is Big Time, Major League, serious economics and monetary policy rolled into one. This is your wake up call.

      • 5Fingers

        You are part of it. You and LPAC are just manipulated befuddlers. You have no power and you waste energy of yourselves and those around you. You are a convenient troll

  26. Pat Flannery

    We don’t want government by central bank. Ireland’s inability to recover comes down to one word: recourse.

    I recently spent some time knocking around my old professional hunting ground, San Diego, to witness a rebounding real estate market, which apparently is becoming widespread across America. This is due to a lack of inventory and pent up demand, similar to what sparked the consumer economy following WWII.

    You are right David, the difference between San Diego and Dublin is Ireland’s debt overhang. That kind of debt has dissipated in San Diego and in other U.S. cities. In San Diego the very neighborhoods whose current “for sale” listings are receiving multiple (over the asking price) offers had “bank-owned – for sale” signs on every other house only four years ago. What has changed? The mortgage debt has been written off. Life goes on.

    Rather than submit to debt slavery, as the Irish are amazingly doing, the American home owners merely walked away. They let the bank take their homes, which was the deal they made when signing the loan papers.

    After defaulting many rented on the same street from a corporate investor who had just closed on their neighbor’s “bank-owned” house. People kept their kids at the same school and the neighborhood hardly changed. Rents were low because the giant corporate investors had a glut of rental properties. But they were in it for the capital gain.

    The only inconvenience the “defaulters” suffered was hauling furniture out of one house and into another and a ding on their credit. I say a “ding” because those very same defaulters are now lining up to buy properties in the same neighborhood and having no difficulty in getting mortgages. Default is accepted as an economic right-of-passage.

    The investors are taking their profit. Even though they are selling at greatly reduced prices from what the defaulters originally paid, they are still making healthy corporate profits. Many of these corporations are quoted on Wall Street, often managed by the same bankers who engineered the property boom with their securitization magic.

    That is all in stark contrast to the situation in Ireland because every mortgage here is both a home mortgage and a personal loan. That is what is wrong. It has nothing to do with your old profession of central banking and has even less to do with the Euro.

    It is more a cultural issue than an economic issue. The old Irish conservative “status quo” crowd produced the full recourse mortgage in the same fashion it produced the “no downward adjustment” rent law.

    Ireland has an old intractable cultural problem that has produced the current economic problem – our acceptance of a Burkean elite. In 1791 Edmund Burke, the darling of all conservatives, wrote that without a “natural aristocracy” there could be no nation. Apparently we still believe him.

    • joe hack

      The debt slavery continue in San Diego

      What you describe is not a fix – working for a new IOUs when the last one was 5—10 —15 years in … this is not no harm done this is indefinite slavery – when added to the new IOUs the new IOUs are now longer than old ones – this is just calculate new debt wishful thinking on the part the buyer.

      New debt money for the future but the young might fall for this too.

      Paying off a country debt with a new one what would a five year old say.

      USA debt 16 trillion great example way to go but unlike Ireland the USA has a big gun to pivot at China

      Following the USAs example is why we are in this mess no thank you Pat, short term gains don’t last.

      Wishful hoping does not work either

  27. joe hack

    David, at least you have identified that Wishful Hoping will not work

    • bonbon

      And morality pantomimes either, both being Adam Smith’s edict to the plebs with his “Moral Sentiments”.

  28. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    Our kids will have a very bright future if they invest their FHC money in gold coins and physical bullion kept at home. The paper futures market is decoupling from the physical market:

    No gold for delivery when contract expires. Oh deary me. The character in the following clip knows where the price of the physical is going shortly:

    The leader you hope will emerge must have the vision to see opportunity in the darkest of circumstances. The future will be very bright for the kids who think, believe, and act upon positive mental attitudes!

    • bonbon

      Does DMcW hope for an emerging leader? Barosso has an idea, ex-communist that he is, and it is “sience fiction” as he says himself. Did you ever look up H.G. Wells? Is’nt it funny Barosso uses the Brit “The Shape of Things to Come” to guide his “thinking”?

      Now I wonder where communism actually came from….

  29. bonbon

    Draghi Exposes Himself as Empire Agent, Once Again, and exposes London’s City for all to see :

    May 27 (EIRNS)–During his trip to Britain last week, ECB President Mario Draghi gave a speech at the City of London Corporation on May 23, in which he endorsed more Brutishness in European politics, saying:

    “I have always been deeply impressed by the sense of commitment that motivates distinguished City of London professionals such as yourself to take on the demanding role of your office. No doubt this sense of responsibility to the community has been instrumental in delivering the longevity and stability of the City of London Corporation. This institution has played an important role in developing the Square Mile into the premier financial center of the world.

    “I cannot say which of the two sets of arguments is stronger, the economic or the political ones, but what I can say is that Europe needs a more European U.K. as much as the U.K. needs a more British Europe. To limit myself to matters that are close to my own professional capacity, let me note a few reminders of the depth of the interconnection:

    “* More than twice as many euros are traded in the U.K.’s foreign exchange market than in all the countries of the euro area combined, and more than in the U.S.
    “* All major euro area banks have important branches in the City of London–- and U.K. banks are leading players in financial markets of the euro area.
    “* Around 40% of the deposits placed with euro area banks from outside the euro area come from the U.K.

    “* At the same time, an equally large share, i.e. 40%, of all loans granted by euro area banks to non-euro area residents goes to U.K. borrowers.
    “* In fact, 40% seems to be a key figure when looking at the U.K.’s linkages with the euro area: It is also approximately the share of the euro in all the foreign currency-denominated loans as well as deposits in the U.K.
    “* Finally, the euro area is the U.K.’s largest export market. It may not come as a surprise to you by now that no less than 40% of all the goods and services exported by U.K. businesses are delivered to euro area countries. In 2012 this amounted to EU240 billion, or just short of £200 billion.
    With such deep interconnections, the U.K. and the euro area share a common interest: stability in the functioning of our economic system and particularly of our financial markets.”

  30. bonbon

    @patflannery :

    Bankrupt Detroit May Sell Priceless Art To Pay The Worthless Debt

    May 27 (LPAC) — The Detroit Institute of Art Museum, the home of many priceless treasures, has been informed by Kevyn Orr, the Emergency Dictator imposed on the city by Governor Rick Snyder to “save the city” by assuring all the debts get paid, that its art collection fits in the category of “non-core assets” which are on the table for sale. The museum is operated by an independent nonprofit organization, but the city owns the land, building and art. Orr said in a May 12 report that the city was insolvent and that he would “evaluate all options, including selling non-core assets.”

    The art which could be put on the auction block includes: “The Wedding Dance” by Pieter Bruegel the Elder, “Madonna and Child” by Giovanni Bellini, Auguste Rodin’s “The Thinker,” several Van Goghs, and Diego Rivera’s 27-panel fresco “Detroit Industry,” which was painted as a tribute to the city’s labor force of the 1930s.

  31. 5Fingers

    Understand the real reason what we have a crisis and high youth un-employment and stop being sidetracked by philosophies of a bygone era.

    • bonbon

      The real lie covering for London’s City, the financial monster at the center of the crisis.

      Robots – you are not serious. The incredible Luddite, saying power machines remove jobs. Remember the French version of Brit Luddite is the Saboteur, who throws wooden clogs into power machines.

      To pull that one is sheer desperation. Pull the other one!

      • 5Fingers

        Well, you are a perfect example of what big data is about. Regurgitation of free info to say the same old rubbish over and over again. Like a robot there is no real argument, merely an algorithmic response based on trivial parsing of blogger contributions. You, robot, say nothing but clog rather than blog. Being a low cost computer, one can see how quickly you fail the Turing Test.

        • bonbon

          Economics, the theme here, is beyond any Turing-machine. Argument – have you not noticed the war?

          What is your economics point of view, Lieutenant Data?

  32. Reality Check

    @Colin – Yep!
    That’s why we need a “Tax Payers’ Union” party!

    • bonbon

      Would the legion of unemployed youth be invited to such a party? After all they cannot pay tax without jobs. A party of the elite then?

      • joe hack

        No bonbon it is called FF/FG/EU labour SIPTU etc… or what we already have. Yes Bonbon A party of the elite but with new elite faces welcome to a new vision of animal farm were farmer brown replaces framer brown.

  33. bonbon

    All over the internet, Austrian Schooler’s Rogoff and Reinhard,(PhD Harvard Profs), austerity darlings, have been exposed using fraudulent data and spreadsheets by a graduate student, Thomas Herndon. Paul Krugman, against austerity in any case, has ripped into the fraud at every opportunity.

    Seems like PhD’s can’t do math, politicians neither, and they attended the Austrian School!

    • michaelcoughlan

      Just curious. Is it true you don’t like Chicago or austrian economics. I take from your posts above you don’t like central control either. I know your point about splitting banks. What economic theory do you subscribe to?

    • bonbon

      It is “not liking” these, it is the truth about them that is extremely dangerous. Chicago (Friedman) and Austrian are linked – Fisher gave the maths flavor that put the stuff into American mainstream.

      Taking the Hamilton- Carey approach (both Carey’s being Irish American) as shown by German American Friedrich List and fully explained by Arthur Griffith in his United Irishmen, one sees the regression of the Mises/Hayek/Friedman (or simply Mont Pelerin) back to a pre-nation state feudalism, thinly disguised.

      All of this is very well brought firmly to the table by the Reconstruction imperative. Any economics that refuses to embrace this urgently is in fact a clear and present danger.
      Glass Steagall – The American Credit System – Physical Economy

      • Reading the above link is a waste of time. It is all new speak baffle gab. There is no explanation of Glass Steagall, no description. no infornmation on what is meant by American Credit system, Or what is defined as the physical economy. So again we have to guess at a definition.
        Typical LaRouche PAC propaganda.

      • bonbon

        The question was about economics, and I do believe Reconstruction is applied economics, don’t you? The epitome of economics.

        So drop the Austrian recipe, clear your vision and do some serious study of something that might raise the blood pressure, but why not put Hayek to the test with a firmly opposed view?

        One finds immediately Hayek is silent on this utterly critical economics, the only economics that can provide productive labor for the teeming youth that DMcW correctly identifies as dumped.

    • Deco

      What if both Krugman and Rogoff, are both wrong ?

      Krugman is obviously wrong in respect of debt.

      But he is also deeply hypocritical. His views of debt depend on who is in power.

  34. bonbon

    Tom Pringle — Concluding Remarks On His Motion Regarding Ireland and The Eurozone

    …Barosso said in the past, that “Europe has all the hallmarks of Empire.” He said on the seventh of May that the proposal that he’ll be bringing forward on treaty change will “look like political science fiction,”

    Have a look at Tom Pringle’s remarks !

    • Good speech from Pringle.

      • bonbon

        Barosso’s “science fiction” is surely a reference to the father of such, H.G.Wells, The shape of Things to Come. That “author” (MI6 chief by the way) simply laid out the imperial strategy. Barosso, ex-communist, an agent of Empire.

        • whatamess

          it was worth the read !

          “…we will wake up one morning, and we’ll realize that we’re in a “United States of Europe,” and everyone will be wondering then, “How did we actually get here?!” We got here because we pegged ourselves SOLELY to the preservation of the Euro. The only policy we’re pursuing is to maintain that Euro and keep it going, and the tradeoff for that will be a European superstate that the elite in Europe want to create, want to make a reality. And that is the sad reflection of this Government’s policy and their relation to the Eurozone and the Euro currency itself.”

          Our Enda,the eternal sleepwalking secondary school teacher will only realise he’s set us all on fire again ,when it’s too late ….
          Interesting how the expression “too late” has strrrretched it’s meaning for me in the last 5 years…..what was a finite expression in my head seems now to have no elastic limit!!..How often have i said to myself,”It can’t get much worse” and yet the problems metastasise at a staggering rate ….and sadly,we have Enda ,however gently,steering our ship,one degree at a time, for a head on collision with another proverbial iceberg ….

          • bonbon

            Titanic captain went to sleep, said it’s unsinkable, make a speed record! Enda, captain of the U.S.E ?

          • bonbon

            Titanic captain went to sleep, said it’s unsinkable, make a speed record! Enda, captain of the U.S.E ?

            Or Captain Enda of the HMS U.S.E. ?
            See Draghi (1st mate) showing London’s true Euro role below.

      • joe hack

        Hello nice see ya out and about

        We need more sedition

  35. Deco

    Very good article.

    It all goes back to the spoiled brat revolution. The “why not” generation. The result was massive over extension, and enormous hypocrisy. Everything is political. To the point that it becomes overly political.

    The Spoiled Brats are running Europe, and they are now at their peak in wealth and power. Just look at the Dail. They have beaten off all opposition and they own the institutional state. They have it in their grip.

    And they are leading the society over the cliff.

    Currently, there is astounding belief in the state system, as the means to deal with everything. This peaked under Bertie Ahern. But the replacement, are extending this further.

    • bonbon

      Spoiled brats have no interest in even mentioning the cause and the obvious approach. President Michael D. does identify exactly the problem – the anti-intellectual epoch.

  36. bonbon

    Over at DT, AEP notes :

    Portuguese bestseller calls for euro exit after “the apostasy of Jerónimo de Sousa, the Secretary-General of the Portuguese Communist Party, who has called for a referendum on both the euro and the EU.”

    People smell what Banking Union really means. Tom Pringle asks why FG will not allow a public discussion.

  37. bonbon

    Jim Rogers: U.S. Poised For Major Crash

    Rogers, former partner of Soros, “expects that the bottom will blow out of the situation right after the German elections in September.”

    Plans for Banking Union, Basrosso’s “science fiction” – are they depending on this to use Hitler’s Jurist Carl Schmitt “Emergency makes the Law”?

  38. Reality Check

    There’s a new drinking game in the Tullamore school of Economics; every time bonbon mentions Glass Stegall you have to drink a shot. If he mentions; “Hamiltonian blah, blah” – you have to puke it back up again – “A zero sum game”.

  39. joe hack

    Israel is given given a little of what it stole to Jordan. Is there pressure coming on them as a result Syrian situation is there backroom deals going on . Two concessions in one week from Israel suggests something happening in the backrooms.

    Is the TSB broke??

  40. bonbon

    Refusal to consider Glass-Steagall means a guaranteed bail-in, where the bank survives, depositors do not, the exact opposite of FDR’s unique intervention.

    This is known as “Dodd-Frank” in the US and, EU Bank Resolution here.

    How the U.S. Joined The International Bail-In Regime

    Above here refers to the EU.

    Result is labor force collapse as posted above, from zerohedge.

  41. joe hack

    Coming to an island near you!

    Greece becomes trade battleground as foreign investors swoop
    Read the full article at:

    Judging by some of the comments here David you will be waiting a long time for your knight in shining armor to arrive, as it seems some here are defeatists before they even started but they are good at observing…

    Blaming “THE GOVERNMENT” like a lazy dog whining all day, when it eventually get ups to be fed by its master it is observed that has been sitting on a thorn all day.

    On this blog the multitude of excuses for non action is only equal that of our “government” a bunch of pots calling the kettle black.

    Divide and conquer as your article has done (maybe unintentionally) will not help as it promotes us against us or the me against me.

    The individualisation of I am aright jack I got my secret individualised plan to hide in a hole with my gold and bean stash is prevalent here on this blog as it is across this land.

    David there are no conspiracies there is just a lazy self interested people sitting on a thorn.

    It easy to be criticised when you offer a solution but those criticizing it offer nothing while sitting on their thorn and whining.

    David you should take note that the “young hung out to dry” had parents that must have “hung them out to dry” what where they trying to achieve when they did this i sure you know the answer as you subscribe to individualised world.

    Although you are not MY knight in shining armor you are the closest thing to it on this blog – Keep up the good work bonbon – but whether you or I like it or not the banking union is the closest thing to Glass Steagall.

    This blog is a wast of time

    As for most of the rest of you keep up your wishful hoping and buy a lotto ticket that way at least an individual among you might get to be rich off the backs of other losers.

    Keep at it Paul Ferguson you make sense


    • michaelcoughlan

      Hi Joe,

      Plenty of thorns in your bed it seems. People post here to share ideas so others might benefit.



  42. joe hack

    All Viagra and no climax!

  43. bonbon

    Don’t be a sucker and fall for Joan’s new EU “anti austerity” spin

    Instead laugh with Colbert and Herndon above, austerity maths is fake. Joan’s “anti” is just as fake!

    Now look at that report for the real numbers, and realize no amount of QE ever could pay, but we know QE destroys the economy, no laughing matter.

  44. bonbon

    European Parliament Committee Adopts EU Commission Fascist Bail-In Scheme

    The European Parliament Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs (ECON), chaired by Sharon Bowles (U.K.), adopted EU Commission’s fascist bail-in scheme for banking resolution; the vote was 39-6 with 0 abstentions. The bill goes now to the plenary session for a final vote.

    And Dodd-Frank in the U.S. Shades of Hjalmar Schacht!

  45. joe hack

    David I found what might be your knight in shining armor – with caution as I don’t speak french. Interview Him

    He is a 23 year old Belgian called Laurent Louis the only problem is he is Belgian but if we teach him Irish then Maybe we can get in to the Dáil

    Below Translated by Google

    The “J’accuse” the deputy Laurent LOUIS denouncing the lies of politicians!

    Published on March 8, 2013
    While the Belgian parliament was preparing to vote on a resolution to organize large pumps and shot million commemorations of the centenary of the First World War, Lawrence LOUIS MP speaks to the hypocrisy Parliament. He accused the current policy of spending money unnecessarily to commemorate the ancient wars and thus obscure the current wars. Anything goes: the wars waged by NATO, Belgium and its European allies, support for the Nazi policy of Israel, Monsanto, the assassination of Gaddafi’s coup against Bashar Al Assad, the colonial policy Belgian Congo, hands cut off, the Congolese contamination by AIDS, austerity, this oppression of people without forgetting the current separatism. A message resolutely truth when the member LOUIS opposes current manipulations and urges the Belgian leaders to choose a real peace by rejecting modern forms of oppression of peoples. There will unfortunately not finish his speech because the socialist President of the Belgian Parliament cut to him. Note that during his speech, the member will be faced LOUIS noise and insults from the Socialist benches. Surely those who say close to the citizens do not want to hear some truths

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