April 29, 2013

Copper-bottomed economics

Posted in International Economy · 231 comments ·

For the economist, one of the most dangerous urges is to fall in love with our forecast. That is to say, to become so wedded to our own world view that we are blind to the changes evident all around us and the effect we could have on our own preconceived notions about how the world works.

Economists like to think we can make a decent stab at forecasting what is coming down the track. For many, our reputation gets caught up in this forecast and, rather than admit our forecast is going badly off track as the data changes, we stick to it in the hope that the evidence will change to substantiate our earlier prejudices.

Keynes, of course, was wise to this and he covered all bases when he responded to questions as to why he wasn’t right all the time with the deliciously humble quip: “When the facts change, I change my opinions. What do you do, sir?”

In the world of investing, the economist who falls in love with his own forecast is a very dangerous character and is liable to lose lots of both his own money and the money of those who placed their loot in his trust.

At the moment, world financial markets are at a type of crossroads because the global economy is losing altitude progressively yet the stock markets keep rising strongly. This should not be the case. The stock market should only be the aggregation of all the future profits of all the companies in the world. Therefore, if the stock markets are going up, the implication should be that the global economy should be entering a new growth phase.

Yet this is not the case. Latest data from the US released last Friday reveal that the economy there is growing more slowly than expected. This comes on top of last week’s news that the US isn’t producing as many jobs as people expected. In the past month, 68 per cent of the data releases from the US have been below expectations, underlining that the economy is weakening more quickly than the experts had forecast.

In Europe, things are worse. We know – notwithstanding Angela Merkel’s mischievous words on Germany needing higher interest rates, while the rest of the EU needed lower ones – that Europe’s economy is on the canvas. (We will come back to Frau Merkel later).

Last week, Spain and France saw rising levels of unemployment. In France, jobless claims have risen for 23 months in a row.

There are one million more people unemployed today in Spain than there are people living on the island of Ireland – north and south. This is a phenomenal figure and gives you some idea of what is going on in Europe. The fact that Merkel believes that an interest rate rise might now be the best thing for Germany underscores just how dysfunctional the monetary union is.

Noises out of China point to the fact that the growth rate is falling gradually – which is not that hard to understand because, after all, if the two biggest economies in the world – Europe and the US – are retrenching, who is China going to sell stuff to?

Now this is where the recent rallies in the stock markets become more perplexing. If the economies are slowing how could the stock markets be rallying? And, more interesting, if the stock markets are rallying, should the prices of raw material be going up too?

The raw material that is among the most linked to GDP and future industrial production is copper. Copper is used in everything.
Copper is used in building construction, power generation and transmission, electronic product manufacturing and the production of industrial machinery and transportation vehicles. Copper wiring and plumbing are integral to the appliances, heating and cooling systems, and telecommunications links used every day in homes and businesses. Copper is an essential component in the motors, wiring, radiators, connectors, brakes and bearings used in cars and trucks.

According to the US geological survey, “the average car contains 1.5 kilometres of copper wire, and the total amount of copper ranges from 20 kilograms in small cars to 45 kilograms in luxury and hybrid vehicles”.

Copper is all around us – the Statue of Liberty represents one of the largest uses of copper in a single structure. To build the statue, about 80 tons of copper sheet was cut and hammered to a thickness of about 2.3 millimetres.

So if the global economy is improving as the stock markets are predicting, the price of copper should be going through the roof, no?


Now look at the chart. It plots the recent price of copper and the recent moves in the Dow Jones average.

The red-and-black line on the chart tracks the spot price of copper going back to last November. The black line tracks the price rise of the S&P 500. Copper prices have fallen off the proverbial cliff. But the S&P 500 – which the press insists is responding to a “recovery” in the global economy – has managed to stay afloat. Given that copper has the highest sensitivity to economic growth and is therefore a useful leading indicator for cyclical shifts in the global economy, this is worth paying attention to.

The disparities between the price of copper and the stock markets are being termed by some of the smarter financial analysts such as Bill Bonner of thedailyreckoning.com as the “great divergence.”

The bond market also sees little growth and disinflation ahead. This is measured by the fact that yields on all bonds are falling and have been for many months.

Bond investors clearly have a different view of what’s coming down the road than equity investors. Bond investors see unemployment, low inflation and low growth. Equity investors see profits, strong demand, high growth and good times ahead. The price of copper and other essential commodities are screaming a collapse in demand and industrial output.

And yet, in Europe, Merkel is predicting that a rise in German interest rates may be appropriate and in America, the Federal Reserve has quadrupled the size of its balance sheet and kept real interest rates negative for longer than any period since the early 1970s.
If you find all this confusing, so do I. The only answer is not to fall in love with your own view of the world.

We are at a crossroads: some indicators say all will be fine, others scream that we are going over a cliff. The best advice in these confused times is “be careful, be very, very careful”. When an economist suggests that he is very confident about what’s going to happen in the next year or two, look around for a large pinch of salt.


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  1. Lius

    SUBSCRIBE – Oh, yeah, so GOOOOD

  2. Lius

    Okay, who got it first?

  3. breltub

    QE inflation is showing in the stocks. It’s wizard of oz on wall street and totally divorced from reality. You are seeing the Bernanke effect that you trumpeted and now claim it is leaving you confused. Beware the effect of printing money!

    As for interest rates going up. It would be a fantastic thing. The higher the better and force everyone to the table who is on the verge of default.

    Without a big spike in rates you will not see the debt write downs you have claimed you wanted to see in the past.

    Perhaps interest rate really means the interest people take in reality! 0.25% means no one cares, and 15% means everyone really needs to cop on!

  4. StephenKenny

    Given the audience for these articles, it will be interesting wonder as to when, if ever, David feels able to take the final step in the argument: Either the financial markets are completely broken; or the central banks are doing what they say they are, and high profile indicators – stock market & property market – are on the receiving end of massive, direct, government intervention, and therefore no longer indicate what they purport to.

    • breltub

      Agreed. He has been hanging out with the wrong crowd for a while and been completely ignoring the hard money gang who have been making points he seems to willfully ignore. Either that or he has been brainwashed very thoroughly by his economics degree and Thatcher’s speeches ;)

      • He is going through some kind of awakening. Give the guy a chance

        • He is one of few people in Ireland capable of growing old while deserving some respect. It’s up to him to broaden his message and stop using the narrow term ‘middle class’ in his writings. As long as people see him as a narrow middle class south dublin tory he will get no love. Not that he cares

          He lives on numbers like all wee boys do. The numbers on the German housing market huh

          Yes get it on my desk by morning. Yes sir. Three bags full sir.

          These talk like they are keeping the world alive. Yes soon as poss “I want those numbers!”

          Oooh David wants his numbers I hear the secretary say to her sister on the phone while she adds clear varnish to the ruby painted cock grabbers

          Why would people want to love such a character?

          Let’s see. A Leeds Utd Tory is not exactly the sort of person you’d want to split a beer with. Haw Haw

          Would you rather go for a beer with such an animal or one of the Irish Brothers who has a heart and soul? Thought so

          That is why I laugh when some of you naively ask him to stand in elections. You are not thinking straight because you would probably do a better job yourself if your heart was in it and that is a fact

          It isolates most people and is a serious failing in his life narrative. He will be remembered as a guy who came from the right side of the tracks but fucked it all up because he actually gave a shit about authority and wished he grew up on the wrong side?

          His problem is with authority. I know because I have have the same ‘illness’.

          It’s like if we are not ‘middle class’ then we are considered inferior. Warped

          Snobbery is worse in Ireland that in the UK. You really have a terrible class problem here and the snobbery is offensive. I suggest we take a battering ram to it all and open up this country and make it realise it’s potential

          We have been incredibly stupid granted but we are an ancient race who gave the world so much. Like the Greeks

          His prison will become so unbearable one dark night and he will break free. I know it. I feel that this guy is ready to get real

          He cares but can’t show empathy. Like many an Irishman. But lacking empathy is self defeating. It just makes you lonely and sad at night when you are thinking

          In my heart he will always be one of the Irish Brothers even if he is a Rangers fan and a tory twat. There but for the grace

          His patriotism will come to the fore one day and he will not be found wanting

          In the meantime it will be up to patriots to fight for what is right

          I hope he joins the fight and I have no doubt he will

          Unlike some

    • ObsessiveMathsFreak

      You sentence seems confused. The markets are broken _because_ the central banks are intervening. That’s all there is to it.

      No-one can safely invest in such a market because what the central bank giveth today, it fudgeth tomorrow. That said, we can choose to gamble, and many are doing so.

    • Hi Stephen

      Thanks for the comment, however you write “given the audience for these articles” as if you are certain who that audiance is. Even I am not too sure.

      The articles that appear here are orginally printed in the Post and the Indo (because I don’t believe in writing for free like a blogger. If you can tell how that is anything other than the road to poverty, I am all ears!). Anyway, these are two very different publications with very different audiences and as such, the articles are written for a very diverse audience. My objective is to get as many people reading as much economics as possible. As a result, the articles move all over the place; sometimes they deal with financial markets like this one, sometimes with the intersection of European soccer and economics (like tomorrow’s) sometimes behavioural economics (like last week).

      I try to keep them a varied as possible and I hope this is helpful but sometimes I don’t even know who exactly the audience is!



    • joflynn

      Yes, after this article I begin to doubt David’s much self-promoted ability to “think outside the box”: can’t he take the next step and see that the QE the central banks have been printing is not going to new bank lending (as alledgedly designed for) but to finance a stock market bubble…Whew!

  5. David,
    Would it be fair to say that bondholders, by and large, are investors using their own wealth whereas the equity investors are generally traders using portfolios of other peoples funds to speculate? If generally true, the equity chaps and chapesses seem to be trying to convince each other that all is well by creating a bubble in equity markets whilst the realism of bondholders seems to indicate that we have hit “peak capitalism” for the moment.
    It appears to go back, very simply, to your own statement that “what I spend……”.
    In the future, albeit the price of copper and other 19th century commodities may wane, foodstuffs of all hues will come to the fore and shortages thereof may well trigger social unrest. People may not riot because they can’t afford a car but an extortionate loaf of bread caused by wheat speculation is an entirely different thing. Even today, the price of oil is a major talking point around the country which has mainly been driven up by commodities traders and government taxes, not by any shortage(at least not for the immediate future.

    Hope Mallow went well.

    • breltub

      Arent the majority of the bondholders now the FED, the ECB and the central banks printing money to prop up the governments by buying up government bonds. Government and central banks, two heads, same snake!

    • Hi Stephen

      Thanks for the comment, however you write “given the audience for these articles” as if you are certain who that audiance is. Even I am not too sure.

      The articles that appear here are orginally printed in the Post and the Indo (because I don’t believe in writing for free like a blogger. If you can tell how that is anything other than the road to poverty, I am all ears!). Anyway, these are two very different publications with very different audiences and as such, the articles are written for a very diverse audience. My objective is to get as many people reading as much economics as possible. As a result, the articles move all over the place; sometimes they deal with financial markets like this one, sometimes with the intersection of European soccer and economics (like tomorrow’s) sometimes behavioural economics (like last week).

      I try to keep them a varied as possible and I hope this is helpful but sometimes I don’t even know who exactly the audience is!



  6. CitizenWhy

    The problem in economics is ideology disguised as theory. Theory is far more modest than ideology. It produces a few principles and a few models and then looks at real numbers, at what’s happening to see what it all might mean.

    Your predictions about the housing bubble were based on looking at the numbers, which in that market were reliable. You saw a classic case of making too much capital (and capital in the form of debt) available to inflate real estate prices beyond the income of individuals and the entire nation’s GDP. You had no ideology, but you had some theory, based on many real past cases, that said excessive capital infusions usually produce bubbles, and the worst bubbles are financial ones (banking linked to real estate). But you were up against neo-liberal economic ideology, the re-enshrinement of laissez-faire theology disguised as sound theory.

    Austerity is another ideology. It can’t be defeated with facts, theory or empirical data because it is decreed by God (known as the Invisible Hand). no austerity is being imposed where it needs to be – on the big banks and the big tax-dodgers.

    In the case of the United States jobs are still being exported at a rapid pace. Capital is hoarded in the form of corporate savings. Corporate capital is invested abroad. The rich avoid taxes through tax havens. The banks are still betting the economy on financial trading rather than directing money into business growth outside their own industry. They know they can do anything they want to extract outsized short term profits, confident that they will extract bailouts from the government no matter how irresponsibly they act. Ideology says that government debt is the problem and that austerity is the answer and government must be shrink and everything privatized. The ideologists may lose elections but they control policy and Congress. All of these factors – and more – do not make for a healthy economy investing in its future. Neo-liberalism, laissez-faire capitalism, is feral in its ideology and effects.

    • CitizenWhy

      I forgot to add that in the United States government is now an instrument to collect taxes or borrow to pour capital into a few favored big companies in a few industries. Ideology no longer allows government to act as one instrument, along with domestic businesses/employers, of general – but prudent – prosperity. Corporations have decided not to act as instruments of general prosperity in the United States due to the export of jobs (that is, the driving down of labor costs to 19th century rates) and the use of technology.

      In the past the financial sector in the United States had many mutually owned corporations, This meant they were not answerable to Wall Street and did not have to maximize “shareholder value”, that is, more and more profits by constant reduction of labor costs. On one measure they were inefficient, employing more people at good wages and benefits than was really necessary. On another measure they were really efficient, delivering excellent customer service and good products and lots of real capital into the communities where they operated. This benefitted their customer/owners as well as everyone else. They also made good profits, did not overpay executives, and distributed the profits to their customers.

      • EMMETTOR

        You’re pretty well exactly right, Citizen but you already know that. The Stock Market probably will keep rising, completely out of step with the Real Economy. Apple announce a drop in profits and their share price soars. It’s another bubble, there’s nowhere else for the money to go, that’s one answer. Another is the huge piles of cash that many corporations are sitting on. Austerity is the New Normal, it will go on forever or at least until the system is dismantled.

    • breltub

      I would agree there on many points, but I would say that both banking and government need to become a lot smaller. Government, corporations and banks are the same thing and none exist in a modern state without the others. It’s all just one giant cluster f**k of special treatment for special people, decreed to be special by the dickhead who lied to you for your vote!

    • irishminx

      What you’ve written there citizenWhy encapsulates in a nut shell what is happening. Thank you :)

  7. irishminx

    I’m just glad you are now seeing David. I mean no disrespect by saying this. The markets will collapse with a crash worst than 1929. It will be one hell of a ride and the likes the World has never seen! The only thing that will save us, ordinary decent people, is if we cooperate for our common good. All for one and one for all, rather than “I’m in this for me” attitude, which is so prelevant is our world now!

    I just hope the transition will be a peaceful one!

    • michaelcoughlan



      Peaceful for humans so far but our bovine neighbours are in the crosshairs. Farmers can’t get credit from banks and the exceptionally long winter has caused a fodder shortage meaning cattle are starving to death. Brave farmers are taking the matter into their own hands. Some farmers have comitted suicide but it’s not being reported.

      Imagine what will happen when the human fodder gets scare!

      • Deco

        The greatest joke of all with respect to “it’s not being reported” is the so called paper of record.

        And then we have RTE, or Pravda-RTE as it gets increasingly called these days.

        Good news only, so as to keep the PAYE slaves working and obedient to the bondholders, and the new Imperial policy makers.

        • michaelcoughlan


          Now you know why the salaries are so big in Pravda RTE. Just like the banks it’s to keep in place the type of assholes how will readout whatever shite they are told irrespective of whether it’s professionally done or not. Go along to get along merchants same as the banks.

        • EMMETTOR

          The media are being well taken care of with Loan Write-offs from the banks for the newspapers and the “Broadcast Tax” for RTE.

      • Michael,

        Do you know anyone that I may talk to on this serious subject?


      • paddythepig

        Why don’t they sell some land?

        • michaelcoughlan


          Cows don’t eat dirt. The sale process take too long and the cows would be dead. Also where would the farmer put his cows then?

          • paddythepig

            Excuses excuses. There is nothing stopping the farmer selling some land. But we all know that farmers won’t part with a blade of grass. Why is that?

          • bonbon

            You mean sell land to DEVELOPERS, AGAIN?

            Instead of food, ghost towns, and likely biofuel?

            I thought some had learnt the lesson?

          • paddythepig

            Who said anything about developers? Ordinary folk can buy land too if it were offered for sale, and work it.

            I bet if the farmer in this case offered a bit of land as collateral, they would get their credit. But they won’t give up a blade of grass because they are keeping it for the eldest son. What they really want is a bailout, get to keep all the land, and this on top of the 2 billion of CAP subsidies they get every year.

          • bonbon

            Come on, you read The Field a bit too keenly.

            The US livestock catastrophe has been very well reported US Cattle Herd Numbers Fall to Lowest in 60 Years; World Prospects for Livestock Feed-Corn Also Nosedive, and the cause is the deliberate suppression of massive irrigation, meaning large-scale culling. that is why NAWAPA 21 means much more farming, irrigation, food production.

            Biofuel mandates have taken 30% of the feed crop to burn in auto’s, decreed by Nero Obama.

          • Colin

            In his neighbour’s field? Aren’t the farming fraternity all well versed in the acts of brotherhood? Didn’t they all complain about drink driving laws which stopped them socialising with each other at the local pub? Why the socialising couldn’t be done over a cup of tea/coffee/coke is anyone’s guess, and then people are bemused that there is a suicide epidemic in rural Ireland? Go Figure!

        • You are one cold hearted fecker sometimes Paddy

          • paddythepig

            Interesting to see you are on the side on the subsidised landowning asset rich. minority here pauldiv. Have you no sympathy for the vast majority of folks who have no land assets, could never get near a small plot to grow some vegetables, or chop a bit of their own wood?

            I thought you were a socialist.

          • You think I am a socialist Paddy?
            Well keep thinking.

          • breltub

            I can see where Paddy is coming from. I am from a farm also, and know that side of the business. Selling land for a short term need of credit to get a few tonnes of silage is stupid business, esp. when that land will produce much more when the cattle you save by doing it can get fat during the summmer on it.
            It is selling a productive asset on a farm, not some patch of land for someone who wants his little vegetable patch fad.

            On the other side, the amount of subsidies given out disgusts me. I am not going to get into it all now, but put simply it keeps some of the least capable people of farming on the land.

            I would love to do some farming, but IT pays much better, but I see farms all around me [including my own rented out to a "farmer"] being so badly run I cannot see any way they are productive or profitable. In fact I know they are not!

            The subsidized food chain is rotting out the core of food production, and I agree with Paddy that the subsidized farmers are getting money for nothing at times!

          • paddythepig

            Tell us what you are so pauldiv. You did tell us once you were a follower of joe Higgins.

          • I can see where you are coming from Paddy but you don’t seem to feel any pity or possess much emotional intelligence friend. You don’t seem to like farmers much but they are still people just like you and me

            Your question can they sell land is a stupid question

            If money was the only problem AND they had land to sell then do you not deduce as any sane person would that they would if they could rather than take their own life?

            God sake man

          • breltub

            Also, farmers are subject to ridiculous amount of regulation, yet the people they are forced to sell their produce to are allowed cut the produce with cheaper product and can get around regulation.

            It is not like the farmers can sell milk, make their own cheese, yoghurt, or whatever else they can think up of.

            Don’t forget, while you are complaining about it that the state and corporations have put a huge toll bridge between them and their market.

          • paddythepig

            Where did I ever say I felt no pity for someone who took their own life?

            I wouldn’t be so trite to associate such a thing with the price of cattle feed, and to come on here definitively claiming this to be the truth, as was the case here. Those poor people deserve better than that.

            And take that halo from around your head. You look after número uno as much as anyone, and are not shy in telling us.

          • I am not so trite as to associate suicide with money and land Paddy

            Anyone with any intelligence will see you are no match for me so do your self a favour and stop trying to bait me. I am too streetwise for you. I am not on your level friend

            And stop trying to hang labels on me

            I am going to leave it there and say no more. It is obvious we are incompatible so not tonight Josephine. I am doing my nails :-)

            Go and call Colin or A Adam

          • “Have you no sympathy for the vast majority of folks who have no land assets, could never get near a small plot to grow some vegetables, or chop a bit of their own wood?”

            I grew up in Red Clydeside Paddy. That means I am one of the 99% you eejit!

            Anyway the people that matter to me know I am not a shallow twat

            You attack me for having socialist tendencies.

            You are contradicting yourself and making yourself look more silly with every reply.

            Give it a rest. It’s getting embarrassing. Fur ye

            Get a hold of yourself Paddy.

            It’s a lovely morning for a walk to clear the head. Be happy and lose those small parochial Irish prejudices. I would have thought you were above all that nonsense but like Oor Colin you are a messer

            I find it interesting that many of you Paddy’s emigrate and forget to forget all your petty little hang ups

            Lose it and free yourself from that prison

          • paddythepig

            Hey pauldiv, for a fella who makes zero contribution to the country you sure have a big gob.

          • Well Paddy

            You are barking up the wrong tree and the longer you keep this up the more stupid you look. Then again you are not a real person and can easily hide. I don’t hide. That is why you fear me and know I will kick your arse every time you try to turn the ball

            I am only replying because I find you amusing and don’t think you are a real person. You are trolling and anyone with a brain would ignore you. You are like Colin. A plaything that gives me amusement

            I like a challenge but you are not equipped to deal with me and so I look forward to running rings around you

            I show you love and you can’t beat the power of love :-)

            Now top that

          • I meant to ask Paddy. What is with labeling me a Joe Higgins supporter?

            Is Joe Higgins bad or something?

            And why do you assume I am not contributing?

          • paddythepig

            Do you ever shut up, or do you just squeal all day long?

          • Are you so inarticulate and lacking in wit that your only response to a question is a question?

            Show some substance man and answer the questions. Come out and defend yourself

            You can’t and you know it. Checkmate. I win.

            You ran out of moves Rick

          • It’s my last day Paddy and God bells you

            I hope you continue to nourish the souls of Ireland with your ubiquitous charm for god know they need more like you

            The women will be lining up when you come to Lisdoonvarna

            A wee song for Irish Bro Paddy

            It’s a proper foot tapper

            Haw haw haw

            Just think of me as Dan

            I came to be a rambler. Living on the ould compensation wink wink.


            Be kind Paddy. Make friends and learn to be nice.

          • There are other people on this forum Pads.
            Why are you fixated on me. You want to suck my nipple?

            Get a life!

          • paddythepig

            You seem a little agitated pal. Maybe take a break, and enjoy the craic. Where’s your sense of humour?

          • Me? Agitated? Nah
            Only when I am being stalked Pal.

          • paddythepig

            I suppose it can’t be easy being a bum. Night night now.

          • Lol. You think I am bum?
            Keep thinking Paddy and keep guessing.

            My LinkedIn profile, blog and photo site says otherwise and I have good references from the past

            I will give you one thing. I am a bum actually but a bum with a brain. So thank you. It’s cool to bum about for a while

            It’s just that I’d rather spend a morning up in the mountains than be stuck in a cubicle

            Now Paddy. Do I sound like the kind of person who could be herded into a cubicle for 8 hours every day?

            I’d rather be a dosser and take snaps of old buildings. I’d eat grass before I became a prisoner of the FAS geshtapo

            Honestly, I’d rather fish and live by a camp fire

            Now get your humour straight Paddy. We are not natural enemies

            So. Tell us all a bit about yourself

            Or do you think us bog trotters are not capable of getting the picture Paddy?

          • Colin

            Paddy, you should know that when you challenge the rotten consensus, you get called nasty things like cold hearted fecker. Did you not get the memo yet? Do-gooderism rules in ROI. You’re supposed to say, Ah Godhelpus, the poor misfortunate, he loved the land, he never went on holiday, tis a pity what happened, he’ll have a great turnout at his funeral.

            Critical thinking loses out in Ireland again.

        • Why can’t they sell bread?

        • EMMETTOR

          To whom?

  8. Deco

    There is so much interventionism in the financial asset markets, that they cannot be trusted, as reflecting economic fundamentals anymore – they are too busy reflecting the power of interventionism.

    In fact in the past two decades, there has been a steady progressive trend towards intervention, and perhaps deceit, with the objective of preventing realism in many areas of economic existence.

    Nobody is telling the truth, because the truth itself is telling us things that will affect our behaviour, and outrage us.

    • ObsessiveMathsFreak

      The trend has really been towards protecting people on the inside track from their own mistakes, at the expense of the rest of us.

      Personally, I now favour “accelerationism”, letting it all hit rock bottom now, accepting the pain and moving on. Obviously this is damaging and indeed destabilising, but at this point even a big shock is preferable to the death of the western world by a thousand cuts.

      • 5Fingers

        the social contract is in shreds. has been for years. full news blackout in place on all negatives for years. we are on a powder keg and sparks are flying. I think bother is around the corner. I cannot see how this can be defused easily.

  9. cianireland

    Why not use QE to get rid of Income Tax and create real demand!?

    There are no genuine bond guy/equity guy sentiments left in the market- all of the smart money is simply front running QE and the predators are hoping to short the crash.

    All assets are being repressed by the funny money so forget about valuations/pricing. Its a charade.

    Ultimately the ‘transmission mechanism’ of QE from institutions to the real economy are TOTALLY broken and further QE will merely continue the charade by suppressing bond yields and blowing up equity. The question has to be how to get the QE to actually work in the real economy (reduce unemployment by creating real demand).

    Instead of enriching market participancts (which includes our respective pensions etc) we need a new plan. I definitely don’t know the answer to this but it would seem to me that we need to get the money into the hands of consumers. With that in mind- why not use QE to temporarilly get rid of income tax across the board?! The money goes onto bank balance sheets, pays down debt and gets consumed.

    Genuinely, I would love a list of good reasons NOT to do this as QE of the current variety simply doesn’t work. Unfortunately it may well work fantastically at creating inflation years from now when the liquidity traps turn off and the money finally ‘transmits’ to the markets…

    QE is likely the only option. The problem is that we still don’t know how to make it work. It needs to drive ground up consumption and not simply prop up a house of cards.

    • Dorothy Jones

      Oh. That’s a good one. How to make it work though…

    • bonbon

      Some here have a very uninformed view of QE – here is the original case :
      John Law Practiced Quantitative Easing

      April 25, 2013 (EIRNS)–Schroder’s “Dialogue” newsletter paraphrases Philip Coggan at the Secular Market Forum, the article saying that none other than top hoaxster John Law is one of the fathers of quantitative easing:
      “Following the reign of Louis XIV at the start of the 18th century,” the article runs, “the French monarchy was essentially bankrupt and so turned to a Scottish mathematician, gambler, and economist called John Law to come up with a way of paying off the huge debts.
      “He did this through a scheme that involved the creation of a joint-stock company, the Compagnie d’Occident, to exploit France’s colonial possessions, and by creating extra money with which to buy shares in the company and keep their value rising.”
      Little surprise, then, that “the scheme became one of the greatest bubbles in history and failed.”
      Get it? Bernanke and Draghi are “Law”full followers of the original swindler. Remember what happened to that royal line?

  10. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    I am delighted that you wrote this post because it is a very honest and open assessment of the utterly bizarre turn of events taking place in the markets at the moment. In admitting your confusion on the article you have thrown open to the other members the opportunity to offer insight which may help you understand more clearly.

    I have tried to follow your lead because I believe that no one person has a monopoly on knowledge. I also believe in the ideas of an open society where as circumstances change someone else will have a different view which will be more relevant in the changed circumstances. With that in mind let me tell you the context in which I write my response.

    First of all I am not an economist. Second of all I am writing my response irrespective of whether you take me or my posts seriously or not. I can show you an example from no less an individual than Eddie Hobbs which will illustrate the point I am making in my response. If I make a mistake I am happy to take correction from genuine responses.

    So here goes David: Your post highlights your blind spot of not differentiating enough between speculation and investing. You have made the same error over and over again in your “Housing destroys capital” dogma. A country the size of Ireland needs at least 30000 new houses per year to provide for our population. Any figure of completions beyond that per year is speculation. Any figure below that is investing.

    Also with regard to speculating, when someone buys a house to flip it for a quick capital gains that is speculating. However, anyone investing in a property (whether a pension fund in a commercial property or a private individual in a house) who place their decision on an appropriate level of yield from the rent is actually investing. Eddie Hobbs himself has proved that because if you look at the front bottom right-hand corner of the SBP Eddie is advertising for the last 3 to 4 weeks for US based residential portfolios yielding 15 PA no less, and pitching the ad at pension funds. If those yields are nett you get your moola back in 7 years WITH the asset.

    Now David apply the same logic to the markets. You yourself correctly observed that bond markets had decoupled from underlying fundamentals in Europe some time back. So has the stock market! The increase in the stock market is being driven by the banks speculating with the newly printed money coming from the FED. It’s not being lent into the economy but instead is being used to speculate on the markets. So the stock markets rise in value whilst the real economy goes off a cliff.
    This brings me to the most important point of all which won’t become obvious for years to come and it is this: Bernanke said to Friedman when the latter was getting his economics prize that “we will never have another great depression because of you”. What Bernanke was referring to was that a monetarist solution means you print money and give it to the banks until the liquidity problem goes away. Then repay the short term loans. Well here is the rub: The liquidity problem will never go away because It’s a result of poorly allocated capital decisions by the bankers. And since Bernanke is committed to making sure that this recession is denied it’s very important function of providing a clearing mechanism for erasing poor capital allocation decisions the liquidity problem will only continue to get worse the more Bernake prints money! This is because these same bankers who fucked up in the first instance will remain in their jobs still making the same shit decisions over and over again. Perpetual fuck up merchants no less.

    Bernanke is just too much of an ideologue and I’ll bet too egotistical to accept his view and Friedman’s view of the world isn’t the correct one! This is in stark contrast to the openness and honesty of your post! But you’re not in control of policy are you?

    Finally: “The bond market also sees little growth and disinflation ahead. This is measured by the fact that yields on all bonds are falling and have been for many months” No they don’t. They see return of capital more likely with this type of investment and more important a revenue stream to pay debts as they fall due.

    Disinflation? Even a child would know what we are in the throes of is stagflation. My mum ran a hackney service 5 years ago. She was paying 95c/lit for diesel. Now it’s approx. €1.50/ltr with all the cutbacks and the recession. That’s 50% in 5 years. Meanwhile Gold has skyrocketed and is rebounding from the attempt by some paper holder to smash the price. All of this in the face of a recession.

    “Now this is where the recent rallies in the stock markets become more perplexing” Not to me they are not. See above. “If you find all this confusing, so do I”. Not in the slightest for me David. The reasons why are outline above.

    I hope this post helps. If I have erred I like you am happy to eat humble pie and take correction.

    Yours sincerely,


    • ObsessiveMathsFreak

      US based residential portfolios yielding 15 PA no less, and pitching the ad at pension funds. If those yields are nett you get your moola back in 7 years WITH the asset.

      This is what they said about synthetic subprime CDOs back in 2007. If you want to take a punt on that rate, it’s your money; but please don’t ask the rest of us to bail your pension fund out a second time.

    • Colin

      Ask Eddie about his Cape Verde Venture, I mean, did his investors get a return on their money there?

  11. Beaver

    The rise in the stock market is easily explained. In the boom companies were throwing away money and now the news that there is a recession/depression being held worldwide has caused the CEOs to look hard at costs so they can keep their comfortable little numbers. They thus cut wages and staff by say 20% against a fall in sales of 10% and halelujah they are smaller but more profitable and the sahre price goes up.

    Even irish banks used to paying market prices for money in the boom were offered funds at 0,75 % by the ECB. They then lend it out for new mortgages at 4,5%. Nice money if you can get it.

    INM just dumped 137m of debt from its newspaper business on the state owned banks ie the taxpayer. Don´t know about you but I´d say its worth 137m euro more today than it was yesterday.

  12. Swanie

    Ms Merkel wants interest rates increased to reduce the housing bubble which is starting to form over there. Over the past few weeks we have gone to look at a number of German houses and the asking prices were way too high for the quality of the house on display (a bit like Ireland was).
    Last Monday we went into a German bank to look for a mortgage and they were only too happy to give us a mortgage, even though it was at the high end of what we could afford to pay.
    With so much money invested in German banks at the moment they seem to have relaxed their previously-strict protocols.

    • 5Fingers

      Low interest rates reduce risk. If they are prepared to give you a large mortgage, it means the risk is low and since they make little money on it, they aim to pull in as many customers as possible to make up the difference.

      If interest rates climb, equity prices are more measured and based on real company performance. Risk increases. People want to evaluate you more. Les gambling. Less money turnover and higher margin per transaction means less selling pressure. Increasing interest rates actually reveals real company performance and well as keeping house prices down.

    • Swanie

      Keep us up to date with developments in German housing market please



  13. 5Fingers

    The only reason equities are so high is because interest rates being so low that it’s worth gambling. But raising rates and the fear is one kills economic activity. Real Company performance has been replaced with a notional bet. No news here.

    You can hear the narrative from all the national and mainstream media. If we can just hold course a little longer, we’ll be o.k. Booms follow busts inevitably we are told. Is this not the ultimate forecast “unquestionable” all economists and governments and vested interests fall into? It just cannot get any worse – can it?

    • 5Fingers

      I am talking short term in the above. Youth unemployment, asian exports, recent damage of last winter. It’s all short term and it could do a lot of damage very very quickly and the wheels of power and deliberation will trundle on as though nothing has happened. The carrot of the “any minute now there’ll be a boom just around the corner folks…”. Cannot eat copper or gold. But if there is no food available (ever see how tricky it is to grow food when the weather turns funny?). All you need is a few days of disruption.

  14. 5Fingers

    Was reading Megan Greene over the weekend on the IT. We still have a major public reform issue on our hands. It’s pay cuts or redundancies. Lead balloon territory and also in the short term. Could be a hot summer after all.

  15. Grey Fox

    I have given up trying to formulate a personal view, information is no longer based on truth, gold, silver, unemployment stats are all manipulated and based on lies so how does one get to the truth?
    I would like to think that the price of copper is a direct result of true market forces but who is to say that it is not being artificially suppressed and forced down???
    The lunatics have taken over the asylum and eventually it will be the lunatics and only the lunatics who will end up trading among themselves in a self deprecating downward spiral and I say let them have it…
    Take what you can get and use it wisely to prepare for the future, I am only sorry that during the Celtic Tiger I didn’t fill my boots with debt as it seems the only ones who will benefit are the ones who did…
    every one gets bailed out except the little guy, Banks, Big Developers and now Big Business INM etc… all the conspiracy theories are turning out to be fact, Banks, Big Business, Government, the Courts, Media ….they are all rotten and served only the vested interests… and I for one fear greatly for the future…truth is a very scarce commodity now.
    So, I bow to my esteemed friend RR6 and his longstanding mantra of looking after yourself and your family first, do a budget, don’t worry about the Banks, share prices, commodity prices, growth, just deal with the dollars and cents in your hand….

    • ObsessiveMathsFreak

      The lunatics have taken over the asylum and eventually it will be the lunatics and only the lunatics who will end up trading among themselves in a self deprecating downward spiral and I say let them have it…

      All very well, but “it” unfortunately means all of _our_ money. If you’re you’re waiting for the likes of Jesus Christ to stop by one day to throw all the hustlers out of the temple, you’ll be waiting for a long time. And watching all the pennies you can will be little comfort when the same men still in place come looking for another bailout.

    • irishminx

      Well said Grey Fox, I concur with you & RR6, hope you are both well btw?

      • Don’t concur.
        If you agree then say ‘I agree;’
        Or ‘agreed’
        Do you you concur each day?

        Bleesed are the concurrers

        Please excuse me while I concur wirh the troops (chaps)

  16. David
    you say you are confused and also ask who you can talk to.

    To resolve the confusion requires information on facts rather than speculation.

    I suggest research on the operations of the “The presidents working group on financial markets

    Also known as the “Plunge Protection Team”.

    The person for you to talk to is Chris Powell. He is a news paper editor in Connecticut. He is also the chairman of GATA Gold anti Trust Action Committee. GATA.

    Gata has compiled over the last 12 years an impressive catalogue of statements and evidence of market manipulation by government and banks working in concert. all parts of the economy are now manipulated, which caused chris Powell to declare ‘there are no such things as free markets’.

    There is no doubt that the DOW is manipulated on a daily basis and that all markets of significance are too.

    I will contact Chris Powell and ask him to contact you but I urge you to make every effort to contact him. I have absolutely no reservations or doubts that a conversation with him will explain the whys and wherefores of your confusion as to the divergance of the exchanges with the real economy.

    I look forward to hearing about your results of such contact.

    • He is confused and going back to square one as we all do eventually

      Personally I think he is very brave and I wish other people would learn to show such humility and honesty

      Give it two years and DMW will be a different man. I guarantee it because he has shown that he is malleable and willing to change

      He is seeing the light. Give it time

  17. bonbon

    Confusion reigns because of the inability or sheer stubborn refusal to look at the future we must have. The only way to get there is to break the banks, by function not just “size”. The imposed senslessness is lawful because of the European inability to muster an intervention, yet again and again.

    This European lurching from concentration camp to concentration camp, again, and Southern Europe is one now, is merely “tradition”, British imperial tradition.

    Break with it! Realize what FDR did in 1933 before it is too late, again! Money as a tradition leads to exactly the European nightmare, again.

    Forecasting means a very clear message, not followership, but leadership. Balking at this, Hamlet’ing Out, is exactly what DMcW is doing, and many others. Do not follow statistics to the KZ!

    The ghost of Glass-Steagall is behind every curtain now, Hamlet!

  18. bonbon

    Strange echo from thing about the copper graph, but I do believe DMcW hears what the “great divergence” really signals !
    It is a reflection of the Triple Curve, Typical Collapse Function, which shows the divergence in motion between the virtual and physical economy. Have a look and wonder.

    Economists must learn physical economics, and the key economic indicator, productive power of labor. Metals etc., fall into place. But willfully increasing the productive power of labor, meaning use of increasing energy densities, drives an advancing economy. The collapse curve, in tandem, or multiply connected to the lunatic skyrocketing monetarism, is because of the deliberate reduction in the productive power of labor over 45 years.

    That is why focus on what we need to increase this is real economics and drives the 3-point plan to tackle the problem : Glass-Steagall, Hamiltonian Credit, and massive programs to rebuild the shattered economy to a new higher platform from which to base expansion.

    The murder of Glass-Steagall in 2000 haunts now every attempt to make “sense” of data in metal, capital, instead of the key economic driver. Economists are driven to admit their total failure and claim that is normal.

    • bonbon

      Discussed at length here in the blog, is the Three Point Plan

      Instead of liberal casino-driven looting, a willful productive power of labor driven economy.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Who are you trying to convince about Glass-Steagall? I would think everyone here agrees with you.

      Apply your very considerable talents to the situation as it is not as you would like it to be.

      • Adam Byrne

        Hear, hear.

      • bonbon

        Don’t be sure about that “is” – its heading straight for the Southern Concentration Camp. To avoid that European “destiny”, I think you had better, fast, take a different tack.

        “Everyone here” is also not what one thinks.

        The British destiny for Eire and Europe should be very clear by now. Accept it? You must be joking. Break their banking, and go with Hamilton, Carey, Griffith, not as the Brutish Empire would like it to be!

        • michaelcoughlan


          You miss the point completely. None of us here have the opportunity to break “their” banking. We can act individually and collectively to create something which they have no part of though. That way they will wither on the vine. You can be part of creating that something new or stay boring everyone to death with your nonsensical remarks. It’s up to you.

          McWilliams himself has had an awakening in that regard. His posts last year were naive in many respects. NOT ANY MORE!

          Stop climbing your Glass Stegall ladder. It’s up against the wrong wall.

          Best regards,


  19. joe hack

    David an excellent article, and important for many reasons, also there are few great comments above. There is no shame in changing tack when the wind changes, unless of course you control the wind and don’t change tack to suit your own wind?

    A Point on Copper; which for me is not the important part of your article:
    The extremely massive rise in the price copper (circa 2002/03 was 4-5 fold increase) can be attributed the Chinese boom. The recent price drop is marginal in comparison to its pre 2002 price (a blip maybe?).

    You might find that the small price drop (relative to 2002) corresponds to the comparable slowdown in china and not to what is happening in the USA however this does not make your main points any less valid. (China is in search of raw materials elsewhere and there may be putting pressure on Chilean copper prices?)

    70% if the worlds copper comes from Chile and a lot of these mines are now owned by USA companies. Chile was in debt and was forced to sell its copper rights, (like we are now. forests etc. D4 if we are lucky) its birth right; to those whom they were in debt to-the USA (conspiracies on this appear valid) I think Pinochet was in power at the time. You don’t need to go to war to enslave-Haiti is a good (terrible) example.

    Even thought Chiles economy has improved since this extremely massive price rise there are still people there livening in close to 3rd world conditions as it’s a very unequally society but slightly improving -with 7 % unemployment. The rich companies inside / outside are selling the family silver to keep only a few punters rich, including those on Wall Street rich.

    • bonbon

      You do mention the legacy of Pinochet in Chile. The damage he did, much admired by Thatcher and the Chicago School has still not been healed. Not visible on copper filings or sidings though, nor tea leaves.

      See Thatcher’s fawning letter, posted here, to Austian School professor of the London School of Economics, and British subject, von Hayek, to make sense of Chile.

    • michaelcoughlan

      You should read confessions of an economic hitman.

  20. [...] For the economist, one of the most dangerous urges is to fall in love with our forecast. That is to say, to become so wedded to our own world view that we are blind to the changes evident all around us and the effect we could have on our own preconceived notions about how the world works. MORE [...]

  21. molly

    We can’t give up , this is a war and it’s not fair.
    Do where ever has to done to protect yours,think how long we played by there rules and it go us no where.
    But it got the rich ,richer.
    So fight a dirty fight because you can’t play by there rules,one needs to make your own battle plan .

    • irishminx


      We can not fight them in the same way they are fightening us! No their fight is NOT fair!

      They have NO defenses against LOVE.

      It is Incumbent on us to LOVE them, THEY have NO defense’s for this!

      Some say I am idealistic …………..maybe, I am…….. But I do know, in my heart and soul, that there is NO defense against LOVE!

      First, you, me and all of us, need to know, that we come from Love and are therefore, LOVE. Once, we get to a place where we love ourselves, then, we can only love eachother and know we are one. How can you hurt self or another, if you love who YOU ARE!

      You and I cannot and could not harm another, once, we love self!

      It is a natural law……………

      with Love,


      • joe hack

        Love You – That will learn them to mess with us. I wont let anyone mess with minx, if they hassle minx I love them for ever till death I will love them!

        • irishminx

          TRULY, I have no idea how to respond to you on this!
          All I really know in my heart and soul is that it is LOVE that will save us. I absolutely love all Man/Woman kind. My clues are in the God given beauty of this magnificently beautiful world God gave us. Look to nature, as I do.

          I realise, on this forum, that what I write may sound surreal and idealistic.

          Maybe I need to explain where I have come from!

          In August 2010, my need was to find out where all the money had disappeared to?!? Because a physical thing, just does NOT disappear, to my way of thinking then!

          So I started to do some research. Prior to this, I needed to clarify that what I thought was most important to me, was to wake up to myself! Until, I realised that I needed to wake up to the world I live in!

          The first thing I did was to go to the first Kilkenomics festival; I booked in for the entire week, on my own! If you search the web, you will find my response to that festival. Ironically, way back then, I called one of my response’s to David, “The Good Room”! Only, because I had heard David speak about this.

          At that festival I was blown out of the water, by what I was hearing and like thousands of other people, I poo poooed “Conspiracy Theorists” ….. My father had been one, since I was 15 years old, hell, I thought my old man was mad when I was young ++.

          Since August 2010 I have researched as much information as I could, sometimes this brought me to dark places, so I had to stop myself from going to these dark places. I did stop! There are some places, I cannot even go to!

          For the record, a year or so into my research, I apologised to my father. I had been the one who was ignorant! Not my father. I harshly judged my Dad, then!

          I learned about the Global financial Crisis, securitisation, Fraction Reserve Banking, the Libor rate! Chemtrails, which still breaks my heart, HAARP, Monsanto, Fluoride, GWEN, Scalar Weapons, the fraud of Cancer and how dangerous mobile phones and micro waves are! Sincerely, I did NOT want to learn all I had researched!

          Then it dawned on me that I not only needed to wake up to myself, I also needed to wake up to the world I live in! This journey is NOT for the faint hearted!

          What makes sense of all I have learned, is quite simple……………..

          The 1% have NO DEFENSE against LOVE!

          Reflect this ……………….. It is so IMPORTANT for you and those you love.

          We come from LOVE, our mission here is to love self and then we go back to LOVE!

          It really is that simply, only we/mankind complicate this reality!

          God meant our world to be simple; it is we who complicate our world!

          There is enough in our world for every man’s need, BUT, not every man’s GREED! THINK!

          This is what I have learned. For what it’s worth, I pass it on………………. With love!

          • joe hack

            Fist it’s late. So I will be Short, Even though I am not.

            I don’t believe in mystical beings – “god” I discovered my first conspiracy and only conspiracy at age of seven that was 1971, this conspiracy was and is no theory; it’s a fact, at that time it was not easy being not part of the maddest of conspiracies. other so called conspiracy are not true conspiracies they just come to being true a certain set circumstances and people become part of an engine that leads to it. An example might be Rupert Murdock I would bet your life that he never told anyone to hack peoples phones. To be true conspiracy people have to conspire, plot, plan scheme, connive, that is rarely the case if it were there always a telltale. It is sad to say but it’s a human flaw a family, gang, tribal mentality, complain about the media to someone that works in it and they defend it, they circle the wagons, complain about group of people about a member of the group and the group will automatically circle the wagons. That why we need to costly police ourselves in all walks of life, bank included etc, Blah, Blah. Tell DmW the indo sucks and he might get a bit edgy tell him your don’t like some his work and his fan boys gang up and resort childish name calling, there no conspiracy, is there, David ?
            On love, I have no issue with you on that, I was poking a bit of fun at you,,,, however even with that in mind I would not fall in love with those who wish to kill and destroy My Love nor do I live in the fear that certain types of people live in, such as the “End Is Nigh” I better save, hide in a hole with 50tons bean and enough toilet paper to match the bean outflow or gold and shotgun etc, blah! That is self fulfilling prophecy not god like prophecy or encomiasts prophecy I am referring to the human condition, inherent within us humans to destroy what already exist or what they have built. They need there phobias to reach a climax.
            The rich are the most fearfully of realty and cannot deal with the truth of simply existing and fading away. Like religion money and the power the masses give it is there mystical security blanket “god” Take this power away and they fade, “your love” can make money worthless, money is worthless if it does not hold sway over the masses.
            Look at the fear that swept through Boston ten thousand heavily armed fat men closed down a city and marched into people’s homes “hike” “hike” “hike” LOCKDOWN and instilled more fear. You don’t need a bomb to terrorise the USA just shout Terrorist in the USA and you can close down an economy bigger than Irelands with it you get, enough fat people on the streets to overthrow the Irish army. The USA empire lives in fear it is on path to self destruction they believe they can fix everything with a gun we are witnessing the end of empire, like that of the Roman Empire. The dark ages are upon us, but we still have spuds welcome to the end, a new beginning embrace it with optimism a little disco and love.
            The end is not nigh, the end is just change, enjoy your love I will fight for you to have your love.
            With “one love” until death do us part or should that be until boredom / divorce. Humans can’t live with cant shoot them.
            Oh you were right your and dad wrong, humans are not clever enough to conspire at least not without someone finding out for that reason they don’t truly conspire plan someone just does something and other follow a bit like Forest Gump going for a run people just followed as they need a leader they are usually disappointed when they find their leader is not much better than them, remember Obama the messiah. Try it if you don’t believe me- Stop on the street at stare up at the top of a building I guarantee you that others will stop and stare.
            Don’t have too much faith in true conspiracies; it’s not so much a conspiracy as it is an inherent human thingy. Some people know this and abuse it use it, some of them run country’s some have name like Hitler how would you deal with him would love him ? Maybe it might? I love Bankers! Now let see what happens? Nothing else’s is working so why not try love!

            One love

          • I prefer to call it Conspiracy Science

            We start out with a question, do some research then find the research throws up more questions. This is where scientifically trained people excel because they know how to manage tons of data and turn it into compelling information. So compelling that they are often labeled ‘conspiracy theorists’

            Anyone who does not like the findings can cry ‘conspiracy theory’ in public and the mud will stick even it is a blantant lie that is later retracted. People remember the lie. Politicians do this all the time

            You are right that life’s journey is not for the faint hearted and it is great to hear someone in Ireland who is awake come right out and say this. It is refreshing because it is different from the contributions from one dimensional characters who would bore the arse out of a bottle

            You should not be afraid of the dark. The dark is part of our soul and sometimes it is our friend

      • michaelcoughlan


        Your point is very important and necessary. I would make the point differently though.

        • irishminx

          I love to hear different points of view, it is what this world needs right now, so shoot! As, I learn from your difference to me and vis versa ;) Plus each individual has their own unique difference to bring to all tables! How wonderful, once we are in a place to hold each other! Get that and you get, life and living! ;)

          • michaelcoughlan

            I agree with your point on love. The impossibly handsome leanardo DiCaprio produced an environmentally aware documentary called the 11th hour. At the very end after the credits even there are a series of interviews with activists. One very attractive lady said that she was putting her faith in the fact that some people love the environment enough to do something to make a difference. I wholeheartedly agree with here.

            I Won’t be sending love poems to anyone in Monsanto anytime soon though.

          • No offence but you sound pretty dim doll

          • It takes a well developed heart to listen and that is the reason why god gave us two ears one mouth

            Do you concur minx?

            Or do you merely agree?

          • Or perhaps a draught of ale and a good ballad is just the thing to spin your motor in the morning?

            Seven Am. Guiness and my cat. Shoor you can’t beat this dossers life

            Listen and feel well minx. Same to molly

            Life is a doddle and we should have more craic

            This is a real good un

            Father and his pals used to sing it on the long rocky from Aiberdeen

            Rebel songs were not allowed but this was a real favourite :


          • irishminx

            pauldiv said “It takes a well developed heart to listen and that is the reason why god gave us two ears one mouth

            Do you concur minx?

            Or do you merely agree?”

            Only just read this Paul. How about I say both!
            I know I don’t know you and all I can go on it what you write. Which I sometimes find real and honest and at other times, your posts are cruel and caustic. The paradox of being human huh! I do hope this day is a wonderful day for you Paul.

      • molly

        What is love against power mad government who protect what they see as the ones that are on there side.
        Lie after lie, it will be interesting to see the real state of the country when large amounts of people loose there jobs and it far out weighed the new ones .
        Jobs like bank staff 3500 jobs
        Xtra vision 1000 jobs.
        This country is heading in the direction of no money to pay public servants .
        The government has raided the pension fund so it’s going to be a poor deal for them
        What the government want you and me to do is start paying into a new pension fund, so it can use our money to pay the public sector there pension now.
        Robbing Peter to pay Paul .
        When this idear fails because most people in the private sector have been badly burnt by pension providers .
        The government will have to get the money so I would guess a new tax on private sector to pay public sector.
        I know people have payed into a public sector pension but the government have spent the pension pot in bailing out the banks.

      • I like your posts minx. From me to you:

        Craig Ferguson sings L. O. V. E.

        Here is one about hope. It’s a very touching intro to a great film

        16 Years of Alcohol (1 of 11)

        Be happy

      • bonbon

        The Common Good, known as the General Welfare, is the highest expression of what is good in humanity. All law proceeds from this as in the US Constitution and Preamble.

        Glass-Steagall, the 1933 really powerful example of what that means, has also a Preamble, subsuming all machinations of banking. FDR could make really fast and sweeping decisions with the Constitution. Obama is personally blocking such action now.

        So do good, as Franklin said.

        The imperial use of money is ancient, and viciously opposed to the Good. It must be tackled for what it is, the enemy of mankind. Population reduction is its openly stated objective – see it in action now in the Southern Concentration Camp. Do not flinch and call it for what it is – genocide.

        • irishminx

          Sometimes, I wish there was a “Like” button on this page. I like what you’ve written here bonbon and yet, it breaks my heart, because I know this to be true too. I think for Mankind to survive, it is incumbent on us to do good and to be honourable in our dealings with all and to take responsibility for all our actions and deeds. In my own life experience, I could only start to do this, when I realised I needed to love me fisrt. I’m not perfect at it. It is not an easy road. However, for me, it is preferable to what it’s opposite is! Le meas.

    • Hope all is well molly and you are on the mend. God bless

      We all have free will and that is our true power in my opinion.

      We can go on strike. Out with MSM, Property & Bank Accounts e.g.
      That would fuck them up pretty sharp if more people did it. But. They are afraid and will pay the household and future taxes ‘because I can’t be bothered with the hassle’

      Such people by their attitudes and actions are only supporting the system that makes them lick the boot. They don’t want to be saved and frankly they don’t deserve any better. Harsh but true. They don’t deserve a better world because the only way to find a better way is through activism. It has to be fought for and in this sense you are very right when you say we are in a war

      It’s just a different type of war from the ones where drone strike kills are 98% civilian or the little spot of bother we had up north. It’s a different war from rendition flights stopping off at Shannon

      We are free to put what we want into our minds. If we avoid junk media we become more aware of the world around us and after a few years of reading the work of proper journalists we can’t stand the site of the talking monkeys on MSM

      Personal world view is the main theme in David’s article and I suspect that the talk about the markets is maybe a sideshow to what he really thinks and feels. We have to show pity to some of these guys who have suddenly realised that the world view they spent their adopting was a big lie. That must be soul crushing and I know what it feels like. There but for the grace of god

      • molly

        yes i am in 5 weeks ,i just got to the stage where everything got on top of me,sometimes i sit and see this country like car crash tv.

        • Think of good things and don’t compare yourself to what is outside the window. You can’t control it. Focus on yourself and get happy

          I mean that

          Find me if you need to talk. I am always here. Good luck and don’t become a stranger

  22. Harper66


    ” Dr Julien Mercille, of University College Dublin and his report into the Irish media and the property bubble.

    His academic paper claims that organisations such as the Irish Times, The Independent group and RTE helped stoke, sustain – and ultimately fail to warn people about the dangers of – the bubble.”

    Good to see David getting the acknowledgement that is richly deserved.

    • Hi Harper66

      Mercelle is a foreigner – a Canadian – and only a foreigner could write something objective. Irish academics, particularly the economics ones, wouldn’t give you the steam off their piss in terms of recognition precisely because they (mainly) said nothing when the madness and greed was rampant.



  23. cooldude

    More good news from Cyprus to cheer everyone up. Depositors in Bank of Cyprus are set to lose up to 90% of their deposits. 30% is to be “temporarily frozen”, 37.5% is to be converted into class A shares in a now worthless company with an additional 22.5% held as a buffer which can be converted to shares in the future. This leaves depositors with 10% of their cash actually available to them. This is the template for all banks in trouble in the future. Anyone who thinks Irish banks are safe needs their head examined. This “bail in” scenario to keep the banksters scam going will be used throughout the ECB and all the G20 countries. Be careful with this one.

  24. Wise words

    ….The only answer is not to fall in love with your own view of the world.
    We are at a crossroads: some indicators say all will be fine, others scream that we are going over a cliff. The best advice in these confused times is “be careful, be very, very careful”. When an economist suggests that he is very confident about what’s going to happen in the next year or two, look around for a large pinch of salt.

    “Mark” my words, Merkel is preparing the return of the D-Mark.

    • michaelcoughlan


      And deposits in Irish banks will fall in value by about half if they are replaced by an Irish currency against a new D-mark.

    • They are hysterical and need to relax and chill out.

      We will all still be here this time next year. And the next and the next

      This is real life now and we had better get used to it. Money is useless. It is our minds that will provide the stuff to help us survive

      Here is my latest gallery Georg. Hope you are well.


    • irishminx

      Georg R. Baumann

      April 29, 2013 at 11:29 pm

      “Wise words

      ….The only answer is not to fall in love with your own view of the world.
      We are at a crossroads: some indicators say all will be fine, others scream that we are going over a cliff. The best advice in these confused times is “be careful, be very, very careful”. When an economist suggests that he is very confident about what’s going to happen in the next year or two, look around for a large pinch of salt.

      “Mark” my words, Merkel is preparing the return of the D-Mark.”

      I don’t doubt it Georg, I hope you are well? Long time no chat.

  25. joe sod

    The stock market especially in america has been in a bull market more or less for the last year, but it is really just recovering from the big sell offs in 2008 and 2011. The DOW hit 14000 in the high tech boom back in 2000, the Dow only recently broke through that level. In 2000 the high tech companies were trading at stupid valuations however this time the valuations are very low with many blue chip stocks trading at P/E ratios as low as 10, european blue chips have even lower valuations. Therefore many commentators are saying that this bull market is justified. It is also the case that alot of money is sitting in bank accounts or in bonds after the 2008 sell off. At the end of the day you have to have some money in the stock market you cant worry too much about what future events might occur. The wrong thing to have done in 2008 was to sell solid performing stocks because they have all recovered. Of course dodgy tech companies in 2000 or dodgy banks in 2008 didnt. Another thing the broad US stock market has proven to be alot safer investment than irish property over the last decade. Irish property is down 50% whereas the US stock market (even excluding dividends) is now higher than 10 years ago. Over 40 years the US market has beaten irish property many times over. The only reason Im focussing on the US market is that it is the only true global stock market

    • bonbon

      And every major scandal, LIBOR etc, occurred n London. You are a bit skewed in your “global” analysis.

      Have you perhaps heard what Bernanke is doing, QE? Might that have something to do with it? Small bubbles like Irish housing and gigantic flatulent “global” bubbles all burst. The stench is already overpowering!

      Your nose should tell you what bubbly ideology cannot, ask anyone in NYC!

  26. Good article David

    You are an intelligent guy and I was about to give up on you because to me you speak to only to the middle classes and never once have I heard you mention the working classes. For someone who used to be a kitchen porter, as I once was for a summer, I find that strange. No empathy it seems. We might as well as not exist

    We are mostly working class now or under-employed and there is no such thing as middle class btw – we are all just human beings

    It was reading Michael’s contribution re suicide amongst farmers that motivated me to post. I have known several people who took that dreadful measure and I have personally been affected and had to pick up the pieces. You spend years wondering if there was anything you could have done or said that would have made any difference

    Suicide is under-reported and I find it disturbing that so many farmers are so depressed that they decide to end it all. As a human being I find it unacceptable that this is brushed under the carpet

    You want to talk to someone about suicide? I wonder why because to tell you the truth I didn’t think that is a topic you and some of your posters would be interested in. Most of you are shallow in my opinion and not capable of talking openly about real life

    Some come here to read about economics and vent about RTE and other parochial matters of mass distraction. Without action all that is just daft wee boy talk

    If you want to talk about depression and suicidal thoughts then email me. I am not afraid to talk to anyone who asks me about it. It might surprise you and others to know that it is possible to have such thoughts and emotions but live a happy and productive life

    From my own experience 2002 was my worst year. I wished I was dead and could not face another year. I am here a decade later and in that decade I have grown from boy to man. Financial hardship can be tolerated but it is inside that needs nourishing. That is where I found the answers because everything external was just bs

    I have a close friend who helps people in deep trouble. For a decade her phone has been ringing with people with all kinds of problems they would never feel comfortable discussing with a doctor or psychiatrist. They don’t trust them and went outside the system for help from someone whom lives on her personal reputation. No web site, no facebook, nowt. Just reputation. She tells them what they need to do to get their minds in a state where they can see a light at the end of the tunnel and will feel more confident in their ability to cope

    People are capable of helping each other out in the communities but first we need to learn how to live as a community again

    This means switching off RTE and Joe Duffy. If not we are giving these guys the power to set the agenda and program people how think. Listening to these guys would make anyone depressed because they know that it is all a sham.

    If we didn’t have the internet and alternative news and views then in my opinion the suicide rate would be higher because today would feel like Dev’s Ireland of the 1930s. And we all know how much that mob screwed up the Irish psyche big time

    • Hello Pauldiv.

      I was on O’Connell bridge on Sunday night. Not everyone is ignoring the crisis:


      Here’s part of what I wrote in my dairy of my w/end in Dublin:

      “too tired to think about the weekend just gone. Dublin is my childhood. Dublin is my spiritual home, or would be if i believed there was such as thing as ‘spiritual’. I remembered everything. 1970. Parnell Square. The first ever Worlds Fèis. Ballyfermot. Every single detail of the Corporation house.Where it all began and where this weekend, it all kicked off again. Thanks Dublin. You are one special city…even if the run had an undertow. I know someone who jumped off a bridge into the icy waters of the Liffey and died: turn the tide against suicide.

      “3 times more people die by Suicide in Ireland than die in road traffic accidents.” It was strange to enjoy the race and the sound system knowing that the ghosts below the bridge were restless, asking me “avenge us…avenge us..” I will. I promise I will. In fact, I already have. It just all needs to play out through time and space….


      “Financial hardship can be tolerated but it is inside that needs nourishing.”

      As in, “man does not live by bread alone”. Priests used to play the role of confidente and counsellor in Irish society, until folk sussed that a small minority were using that psychological sacrament as a way to get their dicks serviced. And those that weren’t on the ‘down low’ from vows of celibacy were turning a blind eye, putting it on the long finger, etc.

      It wasn’t just Dev. Haughey trashed the place, now the bitches of FG follow FF in bending and spreading for the Troika. Noting wrong with ‘that kind of thing’ so long as it’s consenting adults. I do not believe that Irish Citizen’s voted for a century of strap-on buggery from within the Ashes of Angela Merkel’s ‘economic policy’. We’ve all had those gonzo clips sent to us without NSFW tags. Everyone knows how it ends it you end up in bed with the Germans. At least the Brit Royal Family and Cromwell were upfront about fcukin Ireland in every orifice they could. The D4 Appartus who are their heirs are more covert but they’re close to traitors with their City/Wall St IFSC ‘trojan horse’. It’s just pathetic how these sheeple do what they’re told, whether it’s Geithner, the IMF, Lagard or anyone else. Yet, they’re now like rats on the sinking ship of Austerity trying to save themselves by jumping ship from the Rogoff-Rheinhoff Titanic.

      • It’s distinctly ‘unhelpful’ for supposedly serious politicians to trumpet a carefully managed p.r snowjob on the reasons for emigration:



        When John Perry says the same words as Micheal Noonan with a 15 month interval, you know it’s policy. Not personal opinion.
        Hilariously, having allowed the crisis to emerge, FF imagine they can be trusted to solve it:


        If your face don’t fit at the Cumann then pack your grandad’s suitcase and feck off whilst we stitch up the indigenous local economy between ourselves whilst whoring oursleves to international footloose corporations in the IFSC, pretending we’re ‘capitalists’ and ‘support entrepreneurs’.

        FF and FG can kiss my Brummie arse, and anyone out there with silly ideas to take me down, be very careful who I might know, who might be covering my back. I might not be a lone kamikaze…just sayin’!

        • We’ve seen this ‘emigration’ and/or ‘suicide’ movie many times before. I’ve seen it play out as ‘An Irish Childhood in Birmingham’ from the 1960s to the 2010s spanning two centuries. Now young irish folk arrive in Digbeth whilst planning for Perth or Toronto. Don’t seem like volunteers to me folks as they open up about their pain and depression


          It’s time to join up the dots here, even if Joe Duffy’s is el plotto losto. No-one in conventional Ireland is in a position to speak to power, to tell the truth without facing ignominy and/or career suicide. I’m a free spirit and David is providing a free speech forum that’s widely read by those with the power to enact my will, so fcuk it. Time to join up the dots between the Irish Gulag, Industrial Schools, De Valera. The Birmingham Pub Bombings-Birmingham Six.
          Thatcher-Haughey war-mongering co-dependency, emigration today, suicidal ideation and action, and the Neoliberal Trojan Horse hiding in plain sight in the IFSC, disguised as DFI when it’s a plot to destroy a Sovereign State, just as it’s Big Brother, the City of London is a much more successful version of in Britain.

          I’m an English Republican and an Irish Republican. There’s no conflict in being “born on a boat on the Irish Sea, between Hollyhead and Dún Laoghaire”: once I get rid of the Royal-ism that plagues this island of Britain, that is. But, back to Ireland as i muse upon my weekend, the fun run for suicide, etc. I was born at sea, both literally and metaphorically, but I’m no longer “all at sea” ideologically. I’m becoming very clear and focussed about all this spaghetti of treason.

          “I’ve been dreaming of a time when the Irish are sick to death of Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, and spit upon their names alongside Cromwells”

          best wishes

          “the Saxon foe” *winks*
          from the heart of Ireland to the heart of England. up Laois! 3 cheers and a bullet for the original and only Zulu-Warrior Biffalo-Buffalo Soldier of Destiny:

          “Irish in origin, closely related to BIFFO, this is a broader term that takes in a larger area. BUFFALO stands for “Big Ugly Fucker From Around Laois Offaly”. If someone is displaying characteristics of a BIFFO but lives just across the county line, this all-encompassing term will fit the bill.
          That ‘AndrewGMooney’ is Biffalo-Buffalo King of Tara in the Bull Ring.”


      • I wondered how long it would be before we talked A Mooney. Twas only a matter of time for sure. Your posts are the breath of air I needed

      • I don’t trust anyone south of Boyle. It’s a different country down there and I have not been south of Sligo for 5 years. Thank god

        No seriously. After Boyle the people look odder. They don’t look right to me I’d have them up against the wall!

        Joke right?

  27. Hello all. Great article and comments as usual.

    I think there’s maybe a whole loop here to explore about China trying copper as an alternative metallic store of wealth. And then changing their minds?


    Is this linked to the [very temporary] gold crash? Is it linked to the BitCoin shenanigans?


    Does anyone seriously imagine that using TOR and mining BitCoins will be allowed to threaten the NeoLiberal Empire for long? Get that shack in Montana or Mayo with the guns’gold’beans strongroom. It won’t help you. The only thing that will help you is to be respected and valued by your family, friends and the wider mosaic of The Tribe.

    • Herself and me talked about bitcoin last week when watching Keiser and we said the same thing : do they really think they will let them create an independent currency. I reckon no

  28. irishminx

    @Pauldiv, Thank you for taking the time to reply and for those links ? I loved what you wrote, it is the most human and real I’ve seen written on these pages. It is wonderful to see people who have honest to God good hearts. That is where my hope lies………… ? The dark places I spoke of, was when my research took me to paedophile rings, think Jimmy Saville et al, as more truth will emerge in the coming years on this evil. It is enough for me to know they exist! How my Dad became aware was after reading a book called “Michelle Remembers”………………..

    @MichaelCoughlan I won’t be sending “Love Poems” to Monsanto either! I try to make public on Twitter and less so, on Facebook, the harm Monsanto are doing to Planter Earth! I do the same with Chemtrails. I have a ton of photos taken and daily, I see the air planes dump Aluminium, Strontium, Barium and now Fluoride on us and Earth! Sad as this may sound, I send the pilots and persons unknown who are doing this to us, love. I write to Enda & MEP’s about chemtrails and I never hear back from them! @TrichDee on Twitter is sé me! ?

    @JoeHack Nearly 3 years ago, I didn’t believe in Conspiracy Theorists either! I don’t expect you to believe me, however, there is compelling evidence out there on what I now know! Read a book called “The Gods of Money”, by William Engdahl. I’ve met William too and he spends hours researching. He is a geo-political analyst and he is often interviewed on RT TV. Another of his books is called “The Seeds of Destruction”, it is about what Monsanto are doing! You’ll begin to see all the connections to the “Gods of Money” after you read these books! Also, while it is an inconceivable thought, that the Gods of Money exist, the reality is, they do exist. They are the people who brought about the Global Financial Crisis. They do want a one world Government and a one world currency and religion! Read Revelations in the Bible.
    I learned very quickly at the start of my “World Awakening”, to check and re check what I was learning and to look at as much information as I could from as many areas/sources as I could find!

    I will leave you with one thought…………….. Why aren’t main stream media exposing all the shite that is happening in our world, at the hands of the God’s of Money? Because the God’s of Money OWN main stream media!
    I admit, I find it difficult to love them, however, on good days, I send them love too.

    Le meas………….

    • michaelcoughlan

      “Why aren’t main stream media exposing all the shite that is happening in our world, at the hands of the God’s of Money? Because the God’s of Money OWN main stream media!”

      Your love is misplaced. Love yourself first then act from the motivation of love. You will never get rid of the gods of money but what you can do is make other people aware that how we act individually in the first instance, and subsequently collectively, is how change is brought about.

      Let me explain regarding Monsanto. You WILL NEVER EVER CHANGE Monsanto. What you can do though is buy organic where possible and encourage your neighbours to do so also. You then will force the “gods of money” to deploy their capital in a more sustainable way. “Gods of Money” is a misnomer. The correct term is “slaves to money”. The example there is Denis O’Brien. For all his money he isn’t free to walk the streets of the land of his birth because if he stays here for one day longer than the permitted time he will be caught for tax. The man isn’t free the man is a slave. It’s the same with them all. They will follow the tide of the mass movement of consumers with their capital employment and tax havens. So when the majority of people buy Organic Monsanto ET all will have a volte face and put their capital into organic production. They too are slaves. I don’t hate or despise them I pity them. That’s no shite either.

      I also know this. The world is only 4.54 billon years old which is nada in the Universe. The human being is only 4.5milions years old. Shark species are wait for it; 455millions of years old! All human beings are is ecological shit. We were given a thinking moral-observing brain and in the most recent fully completed century what did we do with it? Two world wars, Nuclear weapon strikes against defenceless cities, hundreds of millions of human beings obliterated and eviscerated! Don’t take it too serious or you would go mad. Love is very admirable but don’t wear yourself or anyone else out or you risk boring people to death as some of us have already had or epiphany.



      • irishminx

        I do love myself & if you knew me, you wouldn’t be making that assumption! You are right, they are slaves to money. I also buy organic & live a fairly frugal life style. I don’t have TV, I don’t listen to main stream media….Etc. Etc. ;)

        • Grow up minx.

          You sound like a little puppy trying to too hard to be accepted.

          I feel for you.

          Don’t worry we shall never cross paths again.

          You are far too innocent for this world xxx

        • Adam Byrne

          What about organic cigarettes – do you buy them?

          • irishminx

            No Adam, I do not buy organis cigs!
            I never said I was a saint!


          • Adam Byrne

            All those corporations that you are going on about loving – the worst of those are the tobacco companies. They are the most evil corporations on the planet and full of the people you and David Icke so dislike.

            Keep on putting your money in their pockets and preaching about buying everything else organic.

            Anyone who smokes is a plonker and a hypocrite and needs their head examined.


          • irishminx

            I didn’t say I buy everything organic Adam, in fairness. You do have a point and one I am well aware of. However, it is for me to decide when I stop buying cigarettes.

            I have obviously stood on a senistive toe, given your response to me here.

            May I request you look at who owns the sensitive toe?

            Thank you for the link Adam, it is much appreciated.

          • If one lived in the Phillipines one could smoke organic weed all day long if one wished and not pay a penny :-)

            Get up of a morning, pull a draught of Pale Ale from the barrel and grab some smoke from the garden then power up the puter

            Maybe do a couple hours work if one feels like it. Maybe come on here and hag the P.

            Sounds like the life alright

          • Colin

            Go for it Pauldiv, see how long the local hospitality lasts for expat bums in the Philippines?

            You won’t like their love of all things American there, I always though Cuba would be more suited to you, anti American, pro communist, sitting around all day, nothing to do but smoke cigars and catch some rays.

          • Adam Byrne

            Why worry about getting poisoned by chemtrails when you can stick a cancer stick in your mouth 20 times a day and send yourself to an early grave?

          • irishminx

            Touché Adam, I’ll take that on the chin :)

          • irishminx

            For Adam………………..


        • EMMETTOR

          I’m sorry but if you’re beaming all this love out to your enemies what are you relaying to your friends? The same thing? I’m tired, it’s late but I’m trying to say having one emotional setting that’s “love” is only morally better than one that’s set on “hate”. For love to mean anything it has to have an opposite and perhaps a few alternatives, no? Or do I just not get it?

          • irishminx

            I smiled when I read this, only because, I have the full array of human emotions. Sometimes when I sit here in my office or am out walking and I see the chemplanes drop their poison on us, I instantly become angry and the odd time I shout up at them, You F***ers! Then I catch myself, and ground myself, then I change the way I feel, trust me, this can be difficult. I then send them love…. Why? Love is the highest vibration/energy and as we are all energy, love being the highest, my heart energy will resonate somewhere in this universe.

            The opposite to love is FEAR, hate is born out of fear. The Elite want me in fear, why would I go to a place of fear for them? They can never harm me, in the truest sense. They can never touch or harm my soul.

            I send love to my friends too, but I talk with them and we engage and listen to each other.

            When I am angry, I know I need to use this e-motion to move me to do something about why I am angry. All e-motion is, is the clue to move us to do either good or bad, the choice is always ours to make. I do my best to do good. If I didn’t, my conscience gives me a really hard time!

            I am not perfect, I am as human as any other person. As an example, I find the place I am in right now, very difficult. I want it to be different and it was only yesterday, I realised that I need to accept where I am right now. In the mean time, I need to take small steps to change this place I am in. I am also very aware that whatever I am to the good, I am that to the equal and opposite, so I choose wisely and know and accept this fact about me.

            Not sure this is the answer you wanted EMMETTOR? It is my truth. Thank you for asking your question. Have a lovely day :)

      • cooldude

        What Monsanto are doing to the foodchain is deliberate. They don’t want healthy people who can think critically for themselves and form rational opinions. They want people who are just healthy enough to be debt slaves and be frightened enough of the establishment that they never question issues such as money creation, fluoride in public water (which is simply chemical waste), compulsory vaccines (dubious at best) and all sorts of other shit we are constantly told is good for us but is completely against our best interests. George Carlin was right. These people want to own us and the main tool they use to achieve this is complete control of the money supply which gives them control of politicians. This is how they operate and their goals are definitely contrary to our best interests. I don’t give a shit if this is termed conspiracy or anything else because I have actually gone to the trouble to look into these issues and the facts are fairly clear to me.

    • joe hack

      Minx with love,

      This means you have a belief system based theory “a belief in a theory” It certainly true that people conspire but it is mostly the case that people are lead or drift in to conspiracy – hegemony- it is a human condition which we need to remedy. Love may fix that – the removal of fear may fix that.

      Loyalty is said to be honourable? People sometimes become loyalty to those that hurt them and even defend them this is a defence mechanism (Stockholm). Like those that defended Hitler, Bush, or Obama -hegemony – our government invited some of these murdering people to our land, why! Business, this is called sucking up – hegemony. No conspiracy there the people Ireland want their spuds and diamonds so we support tyrants and slavery in others countries we are co-conspirators.
      Right down to the man that just bought a pair of frilly knickers in Premark for his wife’s birthday, yes her birthday, not his, men!

      If you fly on an aeroplane and then complain about the environmental damage that these corporations do then you are part of that conspiracy that you protest about.

      As for the greatest of conspiracy of all; The “god” Conspiracy, I find it very difficult to take anyone serious when they say they believe in fairy stories and god is certainly a bestselling fairy story.

      If we don’t destroy our selves then it likely in generations to come that we will move beyond money. Therein lies my disco and optimism but I am sorry to report that I once flew on aeroplane and drove cars which destroy the environment. I even bought clothe in Penney’s (Premark) once which were made in Bangladesh. I am part of the problem and part of the solution because I recognise that I am part of the problem.

      But there are those that drive to the so called recycling bins then to travel agent to book a flight but they claim they are enlightened because they toss they Sugar Puffs Box in green bin while buying a new box in the super markett.

      Recognising that we ourselves are the problem is a start and my disco comes from seeing other recognising this we are evolving as a species, if we survive our species the future is bright, if we don’t, we do as all others have done in the past, we fade away but that’s life.

      We can love them, but with love comes responsibility and not a cop out to a security blanket love in the form of fictional “god”, or gold, shotguns, and beans all stashed down a hole that is not love of your fellow being, that is fear for yourself.

      Open up your minds and love

      Ps can anyone recommend a stockbroker that knows the bean business?

      • irishminx

        Joe, why are you labelling me and putting limits about what you think of me onto me?!?

        Everything I say certainly is 100% about me & therefore, the same is true for you!

        • joe hack

          Exactly ‘we’ not them

        • joe hack

          you clever Minx

        • joe hack

          So there is an honesty that needs to take place; this is a responsibility on all of us to be part of the society we live —to be engaged in it—. “We” allow others run our society due laziness and lack self education, a cop out by the masses, so that they can blame “the politician” “the government “who are no more enlightened than you or I, but we defer to them due laziness lack self education.
          The education system in France is quite strong on civil obligation.

          Neo -liberalism does not work, Compare Somali with places like Switzerland and Norway. Those with money are very good at selling Neo -liberalism as they own the media, if it is so good Somali would be a choice destination. The healthiest countries both mentally and physically in the world are those with high taxes as theses countries manage its peoples wealth and not individuals on Wall Street as is the case in Ireland.

          Love with Responsibility
          and i am on side with you

          • irishminx

            I absolutrly agree Joe, self responsibility is not the norm in our world. Sadly. Self responsibility is a sign of maturity in individuals and within society. All a body needs to do is open their eyes to see the level of immaturity that exists in our world.

            Jos said “Love with Responsibility
            and i am on side with you”

            I’m holding your hand Joe ;))

    • Thank you minx. Your reply meant a lot. You are a very nice person and that comes across very clearly. I can talk to you easily and I love your spirit

      The dark places you visited are places where serious investigative reporters go every day. They are brave people but they are being blocked

      On a personal we level we all have our dark side and that is not a bad thing if we know about it and how to use it

    • We should have a Ceilidh minx. If you are ever passing Sligo

  29. Wills

    If an alien landed on planet earth and read this article they be forgiven to think that the economic system of the Northern Hemisphere is rigged to the core.

    • michaelcoughlan

      Why would you feel the need to forgive an alien for observing the truth?

      • Wills

        ..because the truth of it is a bloody disgrace on all of our heads.

        • Wills

          …and it is so, the system is rigged to the core. I’m being facetious Michael!

          • michaelcoughlan


            I love aliens. I also like their honest observations of how fucked up we aliens to their species is.

            So don’t shoot the messenger (Alien) just because you don’t like his honest message. Honesty is love. He could come here and try and sell us a patch of worthless moon for a fortune but he came here and told the truth.

            Love Ailens!

          • Wills

            Yup Michael, true that.

  30. joe hack

    A “beardy” man thoughts
    Drive for austerity loses intellectual fig leaf


  31. joe hack

    Another “beardy” mans thoughts

    Inequality Is Holding Back the Recovery


  32. I am Joe the toff for good now. Cheers!
    I have the life I came for and have it all.
    A true life and an honest one. Rambling.

    Good luck Irish Bros and be nice to each other. We will meet again sometime. Have a good life y’awl. I’ll miss none of you but will not forget you. It’s a sad day

    My parting shot is a sad Irish song. A song that makes anyone with a heart want to cry

    If you can’t cry you are better off dead

    Johnny McEvoy – Going To California

    It’s been strange and I thank you all for nothing. You are all too clever for me. I prefer simplicity

    Sometimes men cry. Sometimes

  33. 5Fingers

    Taken straight out of Wikipedia

    First Epistle to Timothy in the New Testament (1 Timothy 6:10), starts “For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil”
    Greed, one of the Seven Deadly Sins, the excessive love of money and other possessionsRadix malorum est cupiditas, Latin for “Greed is the root of all evil”

    I am reading the recent posts and I wonder why so many are so surprised. Simply by logical extension you can see greed leading to acquisition and accumulation and in the last few decades, the systems are getting pretty efficient. Let’s say one can leave out the middle man (classes??) completely and rule everything. Your brains are optional.

    Does this mean it is all conspiratorial and all due to some great big plan hatched by some Illuminati types. No. All we are looking at is opportunism. People see connections and take the bet. Years ago it was called being pioneering and adventuring. Today we call it being entrepreneurial.

    The trouble today is scale. I can broadcast to all, I can globally manage information for all, I can be anywhere pretty well immediately. Mix that with the irresponsibility of immediacy and the narcissism of those who forget what made them and you have trouble and there is no legal or political framework to address it.

    Yes, the market is rigged. Yes, it is not fair. Was it ever any other way? No. This is what everyone wants. We all want our children to be successes, our businesses to succeed, our lives to be full of goodies. We all love it…and without the responsibility. I always say heaven is a place where I can eat and drink all and what I like with not exercise regime and remain fit…and it’s a place where everyone agrees with me…eternal happiness for the narcissist.

    Conspiracy theories are for those who do not want to face the truth – they bought into this narcissistic crap from day ONE. You only have to look at the USA (center for most of the CT rubbish) and their wanton destruction of their environment, their lack of social supports etc etc etc and now they want to lay the blame on the faceless spoilsports. They now afraid that their need to be responsible in a real way will be forced upon them.

    And this is where Minx’s Love theme is most important for me. Unlike narcissism, Love has no guaranteed return. It is an unconditional statement of regard without expectation. No quid pro quo. It is the ultimate in sacrifice and unilateral regard. Now, as I said, there is no legal or political framework to address the problem that presents itself and furthermore, things are going to rapidly ramp up a notch in terms of centralization and consolidation because as so well pointed out by many of you, it’s all now bought into by our legislators and greed is good and it’s actually so easy to do. If you think I am joking, just look at how easy it was to lock down Boston and watch all those guys sporting their M16s, riot gear and tanks etc. It is not a conspiracy though. It is a natural consequence of tidy up and irresponsible optimization which treats man as a commodity rather than as something to be loved.

  34. bonbon

    The Template that Enda presided over :

    Bank of Cyprus Enforces 37.5% Haircut on Uninsured Deposits

    April 29 (EIRNS)–The “Cyprus Template” has not finished its
    dirty work inside Cyprus. Now Bank of Cyprus will enforce a
    conversion of 37.5% of uninsured deposits over EU100,000 into
    virtually worthless shares under orders of the EC-ECB-IMF Troika,
    which has been given the Orwellian name of “Initial Deposits
    Contributing Sum.”
    Another 22.5% of uninsured deposits will
    remain frozen until the finalization of a more detailed and
    updated independent valuation of the assets of Bank of Cyprus,
    which means this could be seized as well. Another 30% of
    uninsured deposits is also frozen temporarily and is subject to a
    whole or partial conversion, if CBC decides to do so. This
    amounts to some EU9 billion at this bank alone and this is at the
    bank that was “rescued.” On top of this it took over EU9 billion
    of Emergency Liquidity Assistance from the ECB which has been
    lent to Laiki Bank which was closed down.

  35. And here we are at Hampden Park on fine spring May afternoon and the game has just kicked off between Celtic and Glasgow Rangers. These two old enemies are battling for the Scottish cup supremacy in the sun and there can only be one winner today. Rangers are bookies favourites and expected to win heavily!

    The noise from the hampden slopes is ear splitting in it’s intensity as players jostle to make the first mark on the game

    The noise is deafening. Utterly incredible and the players look like frigthened men in front of this vast crowd that must be over 120,000

    There is calm in the disciplined Celtic defence and Brogan punts a sharp pass to Murdoch the midfild maestro who cuts it out to Wee Jimmy Johnstone on the wing.

    The huge Celtic slopes sing his name. “Jimmy, Oh Jimmy Johnstone on the wing”

    And it’s Johnstone!
    And Johnstone again!!

    Wee jimmy Johnstone on the ball turns two Ranger defenders outside in and slots it into the path of the incoming McWilliams
    who unleashes a terrifying shot that burts the Rangers net and it is bedlam inside hampden.

    One nil to Celtic!

    Oh my god unbelievable stuff!

    The Rangers men are in utter despair. Hampden is bouncing and the Celtic legions are in a sea of sheer unadulterated joy!

    What a tragedy for Rangers but just look at the joy on the faces of Stein and his players – enjoying the moment like cup final virgins even though hampden has been their second home in recent years

    Rangers will find it hard to recover and have any hope of retaining their crown the way thgis CEltic team is playing today

    Farewell Irish Brother. I will leave you with a wee song. I sure you have guessed it already. Up the timaloys!


  36. amazing comments. i’m using one of those iPod yokes so can’t do the usual diatribe….

    i’m in the ‘The Guildhall & Linen Exchange’ in Dunfermline, having just seen my first Prodijig show at the Alhambra Theatre. Fantastic innovative art. my pint of Deuchars IPA costs £1:98 …not €5!!! Dublin is amazing but a luxury product still for us impoverished Plastic Paddies. just got chatted up by a Maths graduate barmaid in another pub who told me E’bro is a no-go area for finance & insurance jobs. so, cheap ale but still fcuk’d. reading this thread it seems that a lot of people are finding their voice. Ireland is a really unique culture but maybe that’s easy to say as a visitor. Glasgow tomorrow. another Prodijig show. it’s odd to walk past the Masonic Hall after watching a cultural manifestation of rebellion against Rome that precedes Caesar. once more the arms are free to move after centuries of being hemmed in by ‘priests in black gowns making their rounds binding with briars joys and desires’. Irish Dance is for everyone-the ultimate extreme sport. i don’t think most Irish people realise just how much admiration there is for their culture. one can only hope that this can translate to trade and economic renewal. this article is also ‘creative destruction’: the new can only come into being in the morbid interregnum-or whatever it was that Gramsci said as he left the code for meto costruct the Cultural Marxist Doomsday Device. More rants when ihave the laptop fired up. but for now-that l
    barmaid has just txtd me…drank so much in Dublin could’nt have got wood with a handful of blues…back soon to Ireland to plot Revolution…or a piss up at least….if Ireland has a destiny of a united island: does that also mean Britain as an island is also destined for unity under Union? maybe. but not under Royalism once i’m in charge..i’ve spoken to half a dozen folk tonight-not one suppotts Salmond but most say they are circumspect about voicing their feelings . Interesting times, etc.

    • C’mere you get around Mooney. Fuck me. Are there any jobs going at your place?

      I have some shit hot skills you know. Not at all a bum.

      Glasgow tomorrow?

      Fuck wish I was there. I know the Irish bars up past Glasgow cross

      Or you can head west to Partick where you will find lots of ole if you are sharp, smart and handsome.

      My old stomping ground

      Let me think. 2Maro is wed. If you are there on Fri head over to Shawlands on the south side. It’s the divorce capital of Scotland and a brilliant place for a night out. Findlays Bar

      Shawlands is a great nightspot and it’s dead easy to have the craic there

      And fuck the Q

    • Andrew. Learn this song fast and know the words

      If you end up in the right places with the right people you will be partying and bonking all weekend. You make me jealous. You deviant sod. Good luck and be sure (shoor) to tell me how it went


      This is THE song. Capiche?

    • Pack a Johnny McEvoy song in your case Andrew. It will get you far in Glasgow. What is your fav Irish ballad?

      Go on. I am dying to know!

      Message me 2maro night buddy. I want to know you are having the time of your life in my home city


      Talk to me. Fuck I wish I was there

      I keep listening to this

      Sure why wouldn’t you

    • If you can sing this will make you a legend over there

      Check this out:

      What true Irishman could resist?


      David hates it. He is from Mordor you know. Wink wink

      Headphones and loud volume required

  37. Bell Bottomed Blues
    You make me cry

    Eric Clapton 1970

    It’s amazing how we have a fascination with 1970.

    Or maybe it’s just me.

  38. For the Irish brethren

    John Thompson


    Tears will flow in buckets. If you can’t cry at this then it’s a sad day!

    Come on Joe Hack!

  39. To molly, joe and minx. Thankx for the friendship

    A wee song. Tears are essentrial lol


    A young lad named John Thompson; from the west of fife he came
    To play for Glasgow Celtic; and to make himself a name
    On the 5th day of September; against the Rangers club he played
    From defeat he saved The Celtic; ah but what what a price he paid

    The ball comes down the centre, but John runs out and dives
    The ball rolls by with John lying still
    For his club this hero died

    I took a trip to parkhead, to the dear old paradise
    And as the players came out sure the tears fell from my eyes
    For a famous face was missing; from the green and white brigade
    They told me Johnyy Thomspson, his last garw he had played

    Fare thee well my darling Johnny; Prince of players we miuist part
    No more we’ll stand and cheer you
    On the slopes of Celtic park

    The fans they all are silent; as they travelled near and far
    No more they’ll cheer John Thompson
    That bright and shining star

    So play up Glasgow Celtic
    Stand up and and play the game
    For in your goal a spirit stands
    Johnny Thompson it is it name

    Fare thee well my darling Johnny; Prince of players we miuist part
    No more we’ll stand and cheer you
    On the slopes of Celtic park

    • Feel free to get emotional and want to cry buckets of tears Irish brothers and sisters. You should

      It is your heritage. Perhaps the most authentic Irish experience on the planet. Right under your noses


      Would you rather attend the gathering or take trip to Glasgow?

      Sure me name is Dan, catch em if you cane sire I’m your man

  40. Just clicked a link that took me back to April 1st !!!

    Don’t want to know but looks like you were skinned

    The new blog look nice but works like a dog

    Many will agree. That is what you get for not listening the expensive advice

    You are arrogant. Didn’t think advice mattered.

    Now your site works like a dog

    I hope it cost you 1000s to fix what can be solved in 5 mins


    If only you knew!.

    Lol. Haw Haw Haw

    I’ll take your cash.


  41. For the rebellious brethren and sisters.


    Au revoir Irish Bros. Over and out.

  42. goldbug







    • Paul

      All the best head and don’t forget “the Neds have feeling too” – something one of my Scottish cousins said to another one of my Scottish aunts who was going off on one at a wedding in North Uist where some of my tribe are. I’m sure you understand what he meant!



  43. joe hack

    A Group Hug In Needed,

    With all this touchy feely love stuff going on here and it been the 1st of May I call on David to organism a group hug session,,,,,, ‘beardy’s’ will be included along with the smoothes.

    Later we could start a campaign to have euro wide group hug day although it is likely some country might be a bit reluctant to hug others we may be able to overcome this with good placement and organisational skill.

    David international group hug-day will famously become known for starting here on this blog, don’t forget shower.

  44. joe hack

    A Group Hug Is Needed

  45. redriversix

    Don’t you get it ? NOBODY CARES…..Nobody gives two shits.
    This is Ireland.
    Families,small business,farmers,the unemployed,the sick the elderly, children,underemployed self-employed suffering behind closed doors.

    Suicides,depression ,anxiety,Fear,anger,bitterness, prescribed medication,self medication.Thankfully for Government most people are so dumbed down they can do want they want.

    Husbands blame wife’s , wife’s blame husbands, their children ask them to stop shouting.a daughter asks mummy why daddy is in bed at 2.00 in the afternoon.

    A man hangs by the neck from a tree as crows welcome the dawn from their perch on branches above him…….mothers ringing mobile phones in the middle of the night , hoping a father or son answers……

    Children rush home after school,mummy asleep on the living room floor,empty wine bottles litter the room,her soiled dress clings to her legs like a desperate blanket..”ring Daddy call daddy”..they cry…a sister turns to her brother crying,”daddy is in England,I will take care of you,go upstairs and play your game,Mummy is just tired and misses daddy”

    The phone rings,a brusk voice asks to speak with Mrs Smith ,the young girl replies that “mummy is not available and can she talk a message” ? ,the voice replies “could you ask your mummy to call peter at Bank of Nowhere”…………

    Meanwhile a car parks at another lonely pier,the occupant stares out to sea,wondering how cold it is…..

    Nobody cares…..

    • joe hack

      You do and so do I, and a lot of other people do too, but they trying keep themselves distracted from the circumstance which you describe. There may be more people out there that are suffering than you perceive they are trying to keep positive front for their mental health (Bravado not necessarily the best way in the long term) that does not mean they don’t care it means that they feel that they can’t take on the load of others who are suffering too.

      Depression is the result of trying to be strong when you are not. this is not the same as giving up the fight this is the realisation that you are not in control, this means that you have realised that you must continue to fight (the bravado tool is gone the new tools is the maturity tool but it comes with no instructions so you have to figure out how to switch it on, a new start) for your survival but with the understanding that you do not necessarily control you own destiny.

      One step at a time will get you to the next step; the best things in life are free enjoy them with those around you.

    • irishminx

      You CARE RR6, I care, there are a lot more who care too!

      I’m just writing this B, because I need you to read it and also to listen to it on your phone!

      When you are ready, give me a bell.

      Warm gentle hugs my friend.

      Wrapped with much love for you. x

  46. redriversix

    Thanks Joe,Irish Minx….

    I first posted the above in February…

    I know that many care,I personally know many who reach out to others with no regard for themselves.

    I also must learn to accept that many don’t know or don’t want to know. how many suffer in silence,in fear..unsure of what will become of them..we have turned a corner in the last 5 years a corner there may be no way back from…to a place where peoples rights are trampled..were peoples future becomes a statistic…where people are criminalized for failure,job loss,poor health..a place where it is clear that the end of democracy is imminent if not already here……..

    A time when Banks and their agents have more power than Governments,
    I now live a life trying to help myself..so I can help my family..were I can try an help those who ask for help……

    these traits I and some like me… were learned from experience , from a realization that the life I lived was a lie.

    This life is lived in some kind of alternative timeline to what’s going on around us each day.A place of goodness & reality..a place of love & peace and of honesty..it is a place where fear rarely arises as circumstances are accepted and people do the best they can , one day at a time

    It is a good place

    The time for economic debate is closing as it is futile..the time to realize ones worth is at hand.

    I consciously object to this Government and its agents.

    Take care of yourself..take care of your family you do not need permission to do this..stand up,scrap fear and anxiety.

    So enjoy your day,,know where you stand and move on


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