January 21, 2013

Tearing down the talent idol

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 240 comments ·

As I have never been on a golf course in my life, be wary when this column kicks off with a tribute to a golfer. That said, Paul McGinley’s gracious interview following the announcement of his Ryder Cup captaincy was a joy to hear. Anyone who has played in a team of any sort – at any level – knows what he meant about being the type of player who believes in the team. Indeed, his modesty about his own considerable achievements on the green in comparison with those other golfers on the European team were not just honest, but revealing.

Contrast McGinley’s humility and genuine delight at the superior talent of others around him with the behaviour of another sportsman in the news last week, Lance Armstrong. Armstrong saw in others’ successes his own failings and was prepared to do anything to be number one.

Armstrong’s entire sense of himself was wrapped up in being the winner, the best: the one who took all the plaudits. For McGinley, it is obvious success is a communal thing; something that can be shared, and can also be best honed and shaped by failures. It seems Armstrong couldn’t accept failure. He needed to be constantly recognised as the best.

One difference between the two men is how they see success and potential. Ultimately, Armstrong’s interpretation – either you had the talent or you didn’t – was all that counted to him. In the end his obsession ruined not just him and his team, but the integrity of the sport to which he devoted his life.

In McGinley’s case, his greatest achievement may well be his ability to marshall the talent at his disposal, seeing potential as an evolving attribute that can be developed and constantly improved.

Last Thursday, I contemplated both interpretations of potential as I waited in a queue to see teachers at my daughter’s first parent-teacher meeting of secondary school. They’re funny things, parent-teacher meetings; the potential for indignation and miscommunication is infinite.

South Dublin still has its fair share of Tiger mums and dads. God help the teacher who doesn’t recognise the inherent genius of their “gifted” child. To be fair, it also has a fair share of narrow-gauge teachers, for whom the points system is the only real barometer of a student’s success. Sure, they’ll talk about decency, emotional intelligence and the like, but at the end of the day they know the league tables are paramount; and that inside the head of the Tiger mum is a large scoreboard keeping tabs on every one of their special one’s achievements from being an early talker and walker right through to the first 11 hockey team and on to those magical 600 points in the Leaving.

But all teenagers are different and not everyone can be the best. So the real question for most parents is: how can their children reach their potential?

This is something that has perplexed psychologists for years and it is extremely important for the economy and society in general.

Is potential and thus talent inherent, something to be shown off that can’t endure failure? Or is it in constant development, something that can be improved on and motivated by setbacks?

How we see ability is material to how we live our lives.

Sometimes we hear certain children are ‘gifted’. We’re then very surprised if these young prodigies don’t achieve great things in later life.

Could it be that the way we look at talent explains why people reach their potential or not? Is it a gift or is it learned? This is not an academic question, but something fundamental to our quality of life, because underachievement brings with it all sorts of psychological and emotional trauma.

If we look at how children learn, we can see how some patterns repeat over and over again. Why, when a child is doing maths, for example, does she find herself getting frustrated and giving up – then finds she can’t do sums that she could do a week ago?

Could this be because we think talent is inherent and we simply aren’t clever enough to work things out?
Observing such black and white behaviour, American psychologists in the 1970s did a series of experiments, splitting teenagers in maths classes into two groups.

The first were told they weren’t trying hard enough. If they just put some more effort in they could get it. The other group of students were told nothing and left to their own devices.

Interestingly, the kids who were told they weren’t trying hard enough persisted in the face of failure and eventually succeeded. The ones who were left on their own gave up. So we have capable students giving up because they hit a setback, whereas other students (regardless of ‘talent’), if encouraged, develop ability.

This has been revealed over and over again, showing that people who believed talent was God-given, or that some people were gifted, limited their own potential. They concluded they were not up to it. Those people believed in fixed intelligence. But those who were told it was just a matter of looking at the problem again, eventually succeeded. They believed in developed intelligence.

Unfortunately, humans like the idea of fixed intelligence and can make the mistake of equating effort with a lack of ability. This is easier for all, the ones who have to try and don’t want to and those who think they don’t have to try and couldn’t be bothered.

Again, psychologists have shown via experiments that praising children for intelligence rather than effort saps their motivation, and close to half of those kids who were praised for intelligence overstated their results to their peers. This has huge implications.

The brilliant Canadian writer Malcolm Gladwell, using this research that people who think they are clever overstate their cleverness and lie about it, made the point that Enron collapsed because of its cleverness, not despite it.

When people asked how could such clever people screw up, Gladwell’s answer was it was precisely because they were clever. When faced with evidence that their models weren’t so smart, the Enron managers lied; first to each other and then to the rest of the world.

Could the same thing have happened at Anglo? After years of being told and telling each other that they were clever, they were reinventing banking and had an innate ability to manage risk and make money, could they have just lied like the talent-obsessed kids?

Armstrong also believed in the ‘ability as a gift’ notion and defined himself as the best. When he decided he couldn’t be so legally, he pumped all sorts of stuff into his veins, cheated and lied; first to himself, then his team and then the world.

This is a very human thing to do. It’s not right, but it’s very human. McGinley’s view is the opposite, thinking that you can work on ability, try harder and get better, slowly.

When I see parents at the parent-teacher meetings obsessing about results and the points system as if ability were a gift their precious child simply has to have – because if not, it will be a reflection on the child and the parents – I wonder have we learned nothing from this momentous week in sport?

David McWilliams’ new book The Good Room is out now

  1. joe hack

    Well ho-ly God! Now you’re sucking diesel!

    The good news from RTEs web 21/01/2013

    “IBEC forecasting growth of 1.8% this year”

    “Euro zone surveys to offer hope as Japan eases”

    “China’s growth rebounds, but economy still vulnerable to global trade slowdown”

    “Oil prices fall, trading muted on US public holiday”

    Déjà vu
    One Two Three Four
    If I had ever been here before
    I would probably know just what to do
    Don’t you?
    If I had ever been here before on another time around the wheel
    I would probably know just how to deal
    With all of you
    And I feel
    Like I’ve been here before
    Like I’ve been here before
    And you know it makes me wonder
    What’s going on under the ground, hmmm
    Do you know? Don’t you wonder?
    What’s going on down under you
    We have all been here before, we have all been here before
    We have all been here before, we have all been here before
    We have all been here before, we have all been here before

    • Just Perfect

      I would call your comments : ‘ the lament of a Full Moon’.

    • redriversix

      I felt like throwing up listening to I.B.E.C spinning on RTE This Morning,Clearly the interview was not for a domestic Audience.

      Then we had Joan Bruton or Burton on PK claiming that 140,000 people had come off the live register last year & the year before,no challenge from Mr Kenny.

      Yesterday we had Eamon Gilmore on RTE 1 stating again,categorically that 2012 promissory note was NOT paid..again this went unchallenged from the presenter.

      Don’t get me wrong,I like good news but I would prefer if it was true so I could make proper decisions.

      I lodged a complaint with RTE….for what its worth…

    • Deco

      Pravda-RTE are at it again.

      I thought their talking up the probability of success of the Irish national soccer squad in the lead up to last summer was preparation for an upcoming flop. Interestingly, the other media operations in Ireland were even more groteesque – especially Newstalk.

      All of this is highly instructive.

      Indeed it does look as if property in central Dublin has hit the floor. But that floor is highly dependent on banks concentrating their resources on the mortgage market there, and on a Dot Com 2.0 boom – that might end if the stock market in NYC crashes, or if the bond market gets very nervous. Or even if taxes start to increase. Elsewhere in suburban real estate is still overpriced, especially in the Dart belt, and in places like Rathfarnham, Terenure, etc…

      Apart from anything else Ireland, and indeed much of the Western World is in an intellectual bind the likes of which it has never been in since the First World War – everyhere there is massive conditioning to behave absurdly and with more caution than rationality.

      All you need to do to survive it is behave rationally. Which brings us back to Pravda-RTE, which is concerned as always with conditioning enough people in the crowd to behave irrationally.

      • Some people can’t be conditioned. That is why we never fit in.

        • redriversix

          Amen +1

          • Yes RR6. Fuck fitting in. Fitting in says you are a shite bag prepared to turn a blind to all you could have been. Life is far better when experienced from the edge rather than the opiate of a secure job. I feel that security is a fiction and non starter and that even thinking about it is a waste of time

            You could be struck down tomorrow

            Life is a battle just to stay sane son and as long as you feel well adjusted and happy then that is all that matters

            Fuck it. Happiness is the ultimate victory in this life and when they realise they can’t take that away from you they become nasty hardened bitter and self loathing little hitlers

            Just like Oor Col

            Squirting little pricks who squirt for no reason at all execept when their predujices have been assaulted with a heavey doze of reality

            All we can do is make the most of what we are good at and show others what we can do

            Otherwise we can get a job on a building site and stand massaging our trowel handles on a cold day. Fuck that for a life

            I’d rather lie in and get up when ever the fuck I feel like it

            Haw haw haw

          • Colin

            Here’s Pauldiv and the Monkeys


            …today I swear I’m not doing anything….

          • Colin

            And here’s your mate Louis getting upset on TV.


          • Colin

            Choose Scottish Life ….


            Of course in real life, Ewan McGregor chose a Hollywood Lifestyle, including touring around the world on a motorbike with a TV Crew behind him.

  2. joe hack

    How can I comment when I agree I can’t insult or deride you on this? The education system of rote and memory is a menace to civilisation (of course I don’t want my doctor mix up my organs)

  3. Lius



  4. joe hack

    Repeat after me David “I am unsure what way the economy will pan out” now if IBEC joins in at the chorus followed by others may reach a underrepresented truth? but i am not sure…

    • joe hack

      Repeat after me David “I am unsure what way the economy will pan out” now if IBEC joins in at the chorus followed by others we may reach a underrepresented truth? But I am not sure…

      • Lius


        Go easy on David, he’s still busy trying to avoid the questions about his premature claims of Argentinean economic success. It would be enough for now if he would just fesses up to that little faux pas.

        • Dorothy Jones

          Ah Lius; …I hadn’t forgot that little query either. Guess that was ‘the honours question’ :)that a Cigire might’ve asked back in the day.

        • bonbon

          Argentina is in a war, front-line. Greece is destroyed. The front is approaching.

          Economic success depends on defeating the empire, as President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner said.

          This is not a spectator sport.

          • Lius


            Why so serious, it’s all just a bit of Craic, lots of analysis – no solutions (that everyone will swallow).

            A bit like Leinster and Munster, the pendulum swings back and forth and we all sit, watch, comment and nobody qualifies for anything. Certainly sounds like a spectator sport to me.

          • bonbon

            For Argentina and Greece it is not. Decadent Tigers watch, jaded, and do not see the front approaching.

            It is like the rich on the hills around Florence telling stories as the plague raged below. (Dante).

  5. dermo

    School creates conformists and teachers like boys and girls like that , what they dont’t like is the student that can critically think outside the box , it drives them nuts .Our schooling system teaches kids how to conform to what the state want and get a job , never really pushes entrepreneurship because its a risky game and most of the teachers have never taken an active part in real street kicking , hardball business .

    • Grey Fox

      My experience is to let the teachers do their job, good, bad or indifferent and explore your child’s abilities/aptitudes at home to help them find the right path, some may never find the right path, some may thoroughly enjoy looking (all their lives!)

      • dermo

        Yes we can let teachers do their job , but we need teachers that understand that not all kids want to be stereotyped to get a job work for someone like they teach in Irish schools .We need teachers that understand we need young people coming out of our schools that will be indigenous wealth creators that take risks and achieve by themselves .

      • Irish PI

        ~Why I am a maths phobic.
        Simple really when I was going thru the house of horrors that Irish society mistakenly thought was an education system in the 1970′s up to the mid 80′s. I had three psychopathic women maths teachers in my formative years,who should never have been left in charge of a class of children two in primary school and one in secondary school.The two in primary school belived in yelling at kids and humiliation and slapping as an effective method of teaching .The one in secondary school belived in psychological mind fuks and humiliation in her allocated 40 mins of Hell giving.To them you were just a vessel that was to be filled with knowledge and passed on down the production line.If you didnt retain their putrid teachings,you were at fault not them!!
        Having two math obsessed parents didnt help either,of course they would belive a report card that says “must try harder” in maths.Failing to notice that on average I was taking about six hours a nite in secondary school to do my homework 4 and a half being devoted to incomprehensible to me higher maths. The remainder of my math teachers were men and the village dullards of the teaching world,who just taught the programme and treated each and everyone as another vessel to be filled ,and didnt understand why we couldnt grasp the basic tenents of their teachings.
        So needless to say it was no surprise to me that I failed maths in my leaving cert,but was a big surprise to everyone else.Despite grinds and everything else

        It literally took a university professor in Phoenix a year to rebuild my math knowledge to a functioning basic level where I can do proably the most elementry of day to day maths without breaking out in tears or a cold sweat.

        Bottom line is.Dont belive everything a teacher might be telling you about why your child isnt progressing,and dont belive your child is the next Einstein either because they can add 2+2 at four years.To put it into perspective of Davids article.The reasons banks and others failed to is because they were over qualified for their intelligence and forced to produce the results everyone wanted and no one was checking was their homework making any sense to them and was it right or just a bunch of gibberish.

        • joe hack

          Pi is Irrational

          • Irish PI

            Brilliant contribution…How so??Do enlighten ,or are you a one sentence smart ass merchent??

          • KD

            Heh heh … very funny joe hack! i like it.

          • joe hack

            Pi is an Irrational Number


            The life of Pi is infinite + 1 a bit like our DEBT to infinity and beyond – compound interest is not rational is not logical

          • bonbon

            Pi is a transcendental like E.

            Time to look at Omega-0, the first of the transfinites.

            Accountants, cleverly rational, just have no idea. Never let them run a company even it they are hysterically irrational!

          • KD

            bonbon I can’t believe that I agree with something you’ve contributed!

            Of course all real transcendental numbers are irrational anyway, but let’s transcend that and bask in the humour of it all!

          • joe hack

            Go ahead BonBon and prove it’s transcendental number

          • Irish PI

            But actually stands for in this case Private Investigator…
            Not much outside the box thinking there Joe Hack and Co..:))
            Like most Irish people you were duped into your own thinking was 100% correct and didn’t look at possible other meanings or solutions while being egged on by others into beliveing you were absolutely right.

            And then we are surprised that our “leaders” make a pigs mickey of things????

          • joe hack

            Pi is an Irrational number

          • joe hack

            It seem if you are being honest about your name than I must be a better investigator than you – as now I have information I did not have-(Irish Private Investigator) are you serious.

            Just to remind you this was your original reaction to a little quip that most anonymous people would find a little funny how could I be personal to the anonymous “Brilliant contribution…How so??Do enlighten ,or are you a one sentence smart ass merchent??”

            I did not vote for the present government, so how could I be duped? I suspect “the like most Irish people” is a reference to your own fallibly???

            Pi is an irrational number but why would you be offended if you are not 3.14… PI is considered to be a transcendental number too but some say that its has not been proved?

            I won’t be the one to prove it

            best of luck with your maths PI not 3.14….

          • bonbon

            I am not sure what number you mean – you did not write it down? It involves Leibniz’s infinitesimal.

            Felix Klein, Famous Problems of Elementary Geometry (i895),W.W. Beman and D.E. Smith, tr-ans., R.C. Archibald, ed. (New York:Chelsea Publishing Co., 1980), pp. 49-80. Klein is probably aware that the proof that pi is transcendental, was first given, from the standpoint of geometry, by Nicolaus of Cusa; he knows, without question, that the transcendental Character of pi was conclusively established by Leibniz ct al.,during the 1690′s. Yet, he insists that the transcendence of pi was first proven by F. Lindemann, in 1882! The reason for Klein’s gentle fraud, is that he is defending Euler‘s attack on Leibniz in the matter of “infinite series.” Thus,Klein is motivated by his insistence upon an Euler-based algebraic “proof”(and, no other!) even at the expense of perpetrating a monstrous fraud on the history of science.

  6. Pat Flannery

    Here is a good read from Joseph E. Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate in economics, a professor at Columbia and a former chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers and chief economist for the World Bank and author of “The Price of Inequality:


    • Tony Brogan

      Interesting Pat

      Lots of discussion on inequality.
      Some suggestions as to how to address it.
      One Item not addressed which in my opinion is crucial.
      What caused the inequality was not considered.

      The timing of the events was documented and those timing and dates correspond with something else.
      The changes in the manipulation of the money supply and the inflation induced by increase of money in circulation.

      1913 we get the federal reserve.
      1944 bretton woods and $ reserve currency
      1971 off the remnants of the gold standard for currencies

      With the crony capitalism, government policy is leaked to the “ones in touch”. The issuance of the new money goes first to the banks and secondly to the favoured. The money is spent at par before inflation is felt. At the bottom levels where the wage earner plies his daily trade the currency is devalued but no extra received.

      Thus the favoured are enriched at the expense of the rest. Thus the gap in wealth and earning power widens
      The lower strata are forced to leverage their savings to keep up with inflation. Some succeed for a while and then there is failure.

      The wealth gap widens in a depression. The wealth gap is as great today as in the 1930′s. does that tell us we are in a depression?

      Root cause of the booms, bust and the wealth gap is the unlimited printing of money otherwise called inflation.

      To close the gap we need to stop inflation and get a new money system that does this. A problem not addressed by Stiglitz.

      Good day to you Pat. Take care.

  7. christy.d

    I have emailed this to you twice before and many others but never got a reply,even to say it would be looked into.I know it is an unbelievable claim but when i phoned the Irish Embassy a few weeks ago it was confirmed by the Ambassadors Secretary that the Irish government did get an invite to the Keshe Foundation in Belgium.Here is the email i sent you.

    Over the past few years i have been following the work of an
    Iranain Scientist by the name of Mehran Keshe.He is the head
    of the Keshe Foundation in Belgium.He has been working with
    Magnetic Fields for 40 years or so.He claims he has cracked
    free energy and cures for Illnesses that are killing millions yearly.
    His work has many other applications.As you can imagine,this is
    a game changer for anyone with access to this technology.Around
    the start of September he said he invited the Ambassadors from all
    the Embassy’s in Belgium to a preview of his Technologies and also
    to offer any Government who wants to have his Technology for free plus
    the Teaching of how to use it.Last Friday i phoned the Irish Embassy in
    Belgium and asked if there was any invite from him.The Secretary said
    Keshe…yes we received an invite from him in September.I asked who
    attended from Ireland.She told me no one from the Embassy attended.
    I understand the Politics involved in this must be very complicated to any
    Government dealing with the International Banks and Big Oil but surely
    this is at least worth a look?I have lost my 39 year old Brother to all this Greed and Corruption.
    He lost his Job then lost his House and then lost his Family fell into a state
    of Depression in the end he had a heart attack.There are many more like him.
    Please have a look at The Keshe Foundation site link below and inform yourself.
    I have no doubt you will run into some Crony opposition if you chose to follow this
    up but a fire in the Belly is good for a Man.A clean free Energy source is there for
    the taking but the Government will keep this well hidden…if allowed.You have the
    platform to expose this.Will you?

    The Irish Embassy phone no is 003222823400
    Ask for his private Secretary.


    • joe hack

      If we had free clean energy we might destroy ourselves we would manufacturer junk and dig up every natural resource like we were on steroids?

      I hope that if we do have a free sources of sustainable energy we will educate ourselves as how best to use it?

      I am sorry for your loss the money system as is has a lot to answer for and those that advocate it should have no shame.

      • joe hack


      • Irish PI

        Kind of odd that we need to put giant bird mincers and blue roofs of solar panels all over our landscape.While under every square inch of the earths crust a few kilometers down there is a energy source that boils and is ever hot and will not run out. Its called Geo thermal energy,and you dont have to go to the earths core..Just maybe within reach of our oil drilling equipment. IOW a kilometer plus.If you can heat a normal house with a 200 meter shaft,why cant we figure out hw to power a city with one??
        Wonder why we are not investing time money and expertise to try this in Ireland or globally??

        • Tony Brogan

          Good thought
          Have no idea of the technology involved
          seems like the perfect boiler room. Add water and a new age of steam??

        • bonbon

          Because there is still some scientific thinking left in the culture. The QUANTITY of energy is irrelevant, it’s the DENSITY that’s critical. Human use of fire, no animal ever did this, has a stepped increase in DENSITY from peat, coal, oil, fission, fusion. To propose now solar, wind, tide, geothermal is to ride that curve back down to previous population densities, in other words, sorry to upset the delicate of nerves here, genocide.

          Dr. Schellnhuber proposes decarbonization to reach 1 billion persons. And makes no secret of it. He knows exactly what he intends.

          High power flux densities in manufacturing are a key economic measure. The transatlantic is intent on suicide by reversing this – all to save a dead financial system.

    • Tony Brogan

      Is this guy for real. It will take several hours to go through his web site and I have no means of verifying his claims.
      Interesting post. Thanks, should be educational!!

  8. goldbug








    • joe hack

      “Halo Effect” do you remember him he used be on here!

      • Spit it out. Or are you trying to be a smart arse!

        • joe hack

          your so polite Halo Effect was my name here and stop shouting at me i am not deaf just dumb

          • I remember joe hack but I took it that you were suggesting that I had a Halo Effect. I didn’t realise that is what you used to call yourself. Apologies for getting my wires crossed.

          • bonbon

            Now, Now Hal 9000, was that a “wait a minute, wait a minute”?

        • joe hack

          Your link above refers to the Halo Effect and that is why I tag myself thus a years or so ago…

          • Ah the Halo Effect from those who are seduced by Ivory Towers. I get it now.

            I’ve known a lot of people who taught in universities and most of them are ordinary decent people. They do a job and go home

            Then there are the incestious power grabbing cliques with individual academic arrogance and collective political obsessions

            Sometiemes they are not pleasant places to work

  9. michaelcoughlan


    First of all an apology. I am sorry to all of you if this response is long winded but this article is one of the most important to be posted on the blog for as long as I am reading it and I just have to say what I have to say.

    Let me start with your reference David to Armstrong’s interpretation as you see it because without asking him you don’t know and are only supposing the same as me and everyone else on the blog. “Either you had the talent or you didn’t”. I don’t believe Armstrong held that view at all. I consider that Armstrong took the view that; “You either come first or you don’t” Talent hasn’t the slightest thing got to do with it! (In the view that Mr Armstrong and people whose personalities are as utterly perverse as his is as I see it.)

    Many moons ago when I was playing professional rugby I remember a very well regarded and highly acclaimed former New Zealand all black captain who was coaching us told us the following story to illustrate just how perverse some peoples personalities become when deciding that coming first is paramount. Apparently the story is true; 10 Olympic athletes were asked the hypothetical question that if they were given the opportunity to take a drug which would guarantee them the gold medal but they would die from the drug within three years after receiving the gold medal would they take the drug? Ans; 8. YEP EIGHT out of 10 said they would take the drug aka swap their lives for the gold medal. Totally twisted isn’t it. And of course we know where the sponsors etc. will put their advertising cash; in the pockets of the life forms masquerading as human beings swapping their lives for money, fleeting glory, coming first and of course a gold medal.

    To give you an example in our own back yard re gold medals and drugs; you remember Michelle Smith DE Bruin and her conviction for tampering with her urine sample? The procedure for testing the athlete when taking the sample includes the removal of all clothing from her waist to almost her knees at which the person taking the sample must be present to view the proceeding to ensure no tampering of the sample takes place. So how did Mrs De Bruin get the whiskey into the piss? We suspected that what she did was prior to going to the toilet she had placed whiskey into a condom inserted it into her vagina and discreetly released the alcohol into the container whilst urinating. Once again totally twisted. It was however the price that had to be paid for coming first!

    Now David lets apply the totally disgusting warped logic outlined above to our banks and let’s say the general staff of the US army. First of all Anglo. You suggested Seanie had convinced himself he was cleverer than others and when presented with the facts that his ideas were not working he lied like a talent obsessed kid? Really, maybe like the spoilt asshole that he became he threw all his toys out of the pram when he couldn’t get what he wanted and what did he want? He wanted to come first of course!

    You remember when he applied to Anglo for a loan to buy the oil well in Nigeria and it was granted to him having no experience in the oil industry whatsoever I bet you the thought in his mind was “That cu*t Tony O’Reiley worth 3bn I’ll show that SOB who can beat him and can come first”
    There is something even more sinister now in Ireland resulting out of Seanie’s delusions. “Fitzy” was convinced that it was hedge fund managers in London who brought down Anglo aggressively short selling Anglo shares so please hold that thought. Fitzy gets on the blower to Quinn and tells him look these bastards in London are trying to destroy Anglo and if they know about your failed CFD play in Anglo its curtains so since they are the bad guys I will organise a few of the customers to buy your shares to prevent the share price collapsing. So Quinn is led to believe that it’s the bad guys in London who are the problem when instead you have an utterly deluded come first at all costs personality in charge of Anglo who is in actual fact the prime mover in the debacle. So Quinn placed his CFD paly in Anglo and the golden 10 place their trust in Anglo based on the opinions of an individual who was deluded and blinded by his own naked ambition of coming first!

    And what have the Irish courts got to say about it? Well the powers that be have now decide to hear the Quinn families counter claim that they were led up the garden path to invest in Anglo a bank regulated by the authorities when the fella in Charge was blinded by his own motive of coming first AFTER the hearings for breaking up the Quinn group!

    Natural Justice my Arse. You hardly thing that a bunch of assholes in the Dail who want to come first at the next election actually give a shit about whats happening to Quinn? Oh and guess what? when the great unwashed gave a mandate to the government in the form of the fiscal treaty to do whatever it takes to balance the books which in fact means throwing countless families onto the scrapheap of politically expediency by liquidation one house and business after another whose loans are underwater to pay for banks supervised (not led) by come first at all cost assholes because “sure we must come first and not be like all the other misfortune so condemned who come second”!

    Only one line is needed to explain what happened when the pillar banks engaged in their race to the bottom of coming first in growing their mortgage books and the legacy WE all now have got to deal with.

    Finally David lets apply the warped logic to the General staff in the US air Farce and Darmeeeeee yes sireee! A general who knows how to come first in his class at west point gets an order to start a war with the Taliban in Afghanistan. He knows that the orders will get his men killed needlessly and that the order is counterproductive to the politically aims his country is trying to achieve but he also knows his chances of promotion are based on following orders he knows to be disastrous so what does he do? He follows his orders of course!

    It reminds me of the Nursery rhyme about some general or other “who has 10000 men he marched up to the top of the hill and marched them down again” except in the real world the trailer thrash in Uniform are getting cut in two halves by the Taliban, the Taliban are winning (Far different to coming first) and thaw General gets promoted to the first spot in the general staff whilst the politicians get re-elected back home!

    This article David is understated, sublime and superb. Just like Mr McGinley. It’s a real pity that the other mammies and daddies don’t get their copies laminated and offer you sincere gratitude and congratulations for pointing out something which isn’t obvious at all and demonstrating to their beloved the difference between winning and coming first because as sure a shite I for one know how to win!

    • joe hack

      I have to say I agree withe the sentiment of your your thoughts.

      The USA is the leader in a society based on success $ by numbers and we follow.

      The NOBLE duke of York HAD ten thousand men
      ‘Educated sheep’

    • joe hack

      The Halo Effect

    • Deco

      ah yes…here is an interesting thought….where the bankers and leading figures in the Dublin establishment on drugs in 2006.

      I have heard descriptions in 2000, of social events in Dublin, which were full of legal professionals, where the solicitors and barristers where all hyper-idiotic to a degree that there only logical explanation was that they were on drugs. It was literally a case of the working class discussing rumours about the drug problem in professional circles. Later we all heard stories about legal professionals investing fortunes in investment schemes that went sour. Classic example was the Savoy Hotel in London.

      And I have heard comments about certain banks with branches in Dublin where “Charlie” was approving many of the mega-loans. That also became a massive disaster.

      Then we had the adventures of the boozers in government. Something about which very little is commented in the media, except that one or two were fond of the few pints.

      Well, as the saying goes, you have to know the rumours, because the official commentary is often clearly off the mark.

      Our leadership was on performance degrading substances.

      And the whole country was high on bullshit.

  10. Deco

    There is a book about all of this. It is called “Why Talent is Over-rated”.

    Ireland’s biggest perfomance impediment is cronyism, because it fits in with the ieda that talent comes from those related to previous big hitters. This is usually proven to be nonsense. Just look at the moment of crisis in Ireland, and we had a bunch of hereditary democrats running the country. They failed unceasingly. Eventually they got kicked out. Unfortunately another collection of hereditary democrats took their place.

  11. joe hack

    Just Say No To Drugs ( others people money gold greed etc.)

    David I have awarded you the Yellow Jersey and a Gold Medal today go and take a drug (A pint of the black stuff)you. have earned it after the event.

    King of the hill top the peak…

    The drug testers will be around for a sample of your piss so have lots of pints.

  12. Peter Schum

    Not very long ago, I recall hearing many times that our (now) former Taoiseach was very “clever” in school & college, and we could look forward to a safe pair of hands at the helm. I’m sure he will graduate from Stanford with first class honors and go on to do even more tremendous things!! Anyway, great to hear that the economy is moving into an upward growth cycle, and we are set for an above par performance in 2013.

  13. LongGone


    Amen to that. It took me a while to get out of the winners & losers mindset of the leaving cert. If you are willing to work hard at something you will often end up ahead of much of the “talent”.


  14. Good Article David. The title says it all because society has become obsessed with winning and we are taught that competition is healthy but there is a difference between friendly competiton (like a game of 5 a side down the community centre) and self obsession

    Take Armstrong and Paul McGinley. Who is more successful of the two?
    McGinley of course and there is no reason to spell out why.

    Self Obsession is now rampant thanks to 50 years of programming and community is an old fashioned word from times past that has lost all meaning

    The smartest thing any one can do in life is be totally honest about their potential and then nurture it and practise it constantly. It should be enjoyable. I liked drawing and painting at school and my parents encouraged me but at school there was no encouragement at all. I took subjects I hated because I was convinced I needed to pass them to succeed in life. It was not true then and it is not true today

    Here is a great article for you:

    “This site is for people who want to get better at what they do, and who believe that with practice, they can.”

    The Myth of Talent


  15. Adam Byrne

    Very interesting and stimulating article.

    Just got to reading it now.

    There’s no excuse for working your socks off, ‘talented’ or not.

    The theory of Social Compensation shows that, in group work, if a member has less ability, but high motivation, higher performers tend to be willing to put in more effort to compensate for them.

    I can’t stand lazy people. Childre should be positively encouraged at every opportunity.

  16. Someone said, why doesnt the governent force people over the age of 50 to retire, pay them a million pounds to do so ( less than the amount the government give away
    that would then free up 50 million jobs?)

    • The above is a comment a friend heard yesterday

      I thought I’d put the idea to you guys and get back to said friend.

      Answers on a postcard please

      • joe hack

        Can’t wait wont be long now!!!

        How about we pay people to go to college until they are 30 then they can charge dumb people that payed for them to go to college a 100 euro for a prescription for their sick kids, or the likes of these could become politicians and continual to get paid from the dumb?

        Leo Varadkar still gets paid dole money from the dumb even after getting the dumb to pay for his college.He has produced nothing cotributed nothing and get paid for nothing from the dumb… how dumb they are???

    • bonbon

      The same “economists” likely say all those should open up barbershops and cut each others hair – full employment! Presto!

  17. joe hack

    From personnel departments to humans as a resources or factory fodder learning to do tasks.

    Charlie Chaplin ‘The Great Dictator’


    Modern Times, Charlie Chaplin’s

    this man movie sentiment and clever massages are truer today modern tech makes even truer

    But maybe the few will continue to control the many and fool them into thinking that individualism is is OK as individuals are easily controlled by the few – the 1%

    OK back to Facebook now (whats on the other Chanel) we don’t wont to think the hard as thinking is is hard that why people don’t do it

  18. bonbon

    The reason for ENRON and Madoff, was sheer criminality, far surpassed by LIBOR and now FED-BOR. Add in STEP or sheer wildeyed psychopathic mania, and we get a different picture. For sure they thought they were the favored, of Darwin, and yet they got caught. Remember DSK, he was so clever New York’s finest simply gave him another opportunity. Not really talent.

    What is it that makes them so sure they are favored?

    Well Bertrand Russell shows how talent is nurtured by the oligarchy.
    otice there is the parallel Bertrand Russell draws to the Jesuits 2-level system of education.

    One system for the plebs : “Initiative will be discouraged in these children, and insubordination, without being punished, will be scientifically trained out of them”.
    For children chosen to be among the scientific ruling class, education was to be quite different. “Except for the one matter of loyalty to the world State and to their own order,” Russell explained, “members of the governing class will be encouraged to be adventurous and full of initiative. It will be recognized that it is their business to improve scientific technique, and to keep the manual workers contented by means of continual new amusements.”

    Something for the Parents-Teacher meetings I suggest? The potential for serious communication is enormous.

    • joe hack

      “Bertrand Russell draws to the Jesuits 2-level system of education”

      BonBon You are suffering from the HALO EFFECT when will you think for yourself?

      • bonbon

        Quote Bertrand Russell “The social psychologists of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black.”

        And passionately thinking for themselves. Just try telling them snow is white.

        • joe hack

          Try telling them that money is a man made tool to enslave people into debt and they will all merrily head off to work while tiring to figure out who these salves are when all they need do look in a mirror and there government keeps borrowing to put them further into slavery…

          • bonbon

            Try telling an Austrian School’er, they learned nothing there. I believe you just quoted von Hayek from Road to Serfdom?

          • joe hack

            I quoted whom? nope based on reading various sides of a coin I try not to use others opinions to have my as my own but who knows maybe I the first original tinker but i never be arrogant enough to think that????? of course if i was not bombarded by the educational system then I may be an original thinker????

          • cooldude

            It is not money in itself which is the driving force behind our society’s descent into debt slavery but the nature of our modern boom/bust monetary system which is encouraged and led at every step by our system of liquidity addicted central banks. Their main goal seems to be the creation of these bubbles and then the refusal to let them meet their natural end through even more liquidity and negative real interest rates.

            Money is just a medium of exchange between two willing parties for the exchange of goods or services. It is neither good nor bad but it is a vital component of any functioning economy. It is just another good which enables an economy to function smoothly, or should be. It is not the money itself that is evil it is the addiction to and the debasement of money which is inherently evil. Our modern system of constantly debased money, combined with our system of central banks which are pushing this debasement, is evil in that it robs people of their savings through this constant and systemic inflation. This is the method the banksters use to turn all of us into debt slaves. Once this is clearly understood we can firstly take individual steps to stop this robbery and then if enough people understand this process we can fight it as a society and take back the control of our monetary supply from these gangsters. The main means to do this is to take away the exclusive franchise these guys have over what we use as money. Only by doing this can we stop this process of debt enslavement.

          • joe hack

            I agree Conclude

            i will rephrase ‘Money as is now’ is a tool used BY SOME but I believe most people giving an opportunity would use it the same way as it is being used now and most don’t understand it or where it comes from and I am still working on that, I mean where can i get some?

          • bonbon

            That’s the strange thing about generally accepted opinions, they are always claimed to be original, passionately so. And at the same time free from education, so original. von Hayek knew this exactly. That’s his game, to tear down modern civilization by the people themselves.

            The Jacobins of the French Revolution put first, not the corrupt royals but the most famous talented scientist of the time, Lavoisier, under the Guillotine. Systematically the Jackobin’s beheaded France. Spain ejected the only educated talented people in Europe at the time, the Moors and Jews. Spain and France have still not recovered.

            Ireland saved civilization, meaning education, as Rome imploded leaving a cultural desert. Alcuin, advisor to Charlemagne, who never read nor wrote, was educated in Kells. Europe was transformed – 640 schools were opened. Without points-systems of course. We did not have a Jacobin “revolution”, nor the Roman Empire.

            But we did have the Brutish Empire, a re-incarnated Rome.

          • cooldude

            Von Hayek understood that the credit fueled cycle was coming to it’s natural end. He says in the interview that is was probable that the central banks would continue to add excess liquidity to postpone the inevitable end to the credit fueled boom. He was right in his predictions as this cycle continued until the stock market crash of 2000. Instead of allowing this crash to clear out all the dead wood from the economy the central banks were straight back at lowering rates and creating the housing bubble which crashed in 2007. This crash has rendered the entire banking system insolvent and is being kept on life support purely by the central banks buying all their toxic garbage at full value even though it isn’t even worth the half of it. They have also passed on their losses on to the tax payers whilst still enjoying massive bonuses on their winning bets. It would have been better if a financial collapse had been allowed to happen back in 1983 as it would have cleaned out all the zombie financial institutions and allowed newer ones to come along. Creative destruction in everything except these parasitic banking monopolies which just grows bigger and more rotten by the day. Von Hayek has been proven correct by the passing of time. Here is an interesting article on how central bank intervention is interfering with normal business cycles

        • cooldude

          Joe the best protection on an individual basis from this constant debasement in our monetary system is silver imho. Silver was always the money used by ordinary working people whereas gold was always the money of kings and emperors. To give you some idea of how much silver is undervalued in our society you can compare the value of silver against something real like an honest day’s labour. In Roman times a day’s work for any ordinary Joe (sorry about the pun) came to one denarius. This wage applied to soldiers and ordinary workers such as laborers across the board. The denarius contained 3.3 grams of silver or one tenth of an ounce. Therefore it took ten days of human toil to earn one ounce of silver. Today the average industrial daily wage is around 70 euro per day so if silver was to regain the value it had to Roman society (and practically all others) the price of an ounce of silver should be 700 euro if we use the price of a day’s work as a yardstick. It is currently 24 euro and is seriously undervalued. As this modern financial casino of overpriced bonds, fraudulent derivatives and eventually even our currency system start to come under serious pressure people will look to assets such as silver to preserve the purchasing power of their money. This is not some elitest idea but a simple and practical way to protect yourself and your family from future debasement of what we are forced to use as money. Good luck.

          • joe hack

            Gold, silver, paper, a tally stick can all be called money if man decides to, it makes no difference if its gold, silver, marked paper, marked sticks in all can be abused.

            I would not like to live like the ordinary people did 2000 years ago I think you find that the average industrial wage in Ireland is around €800 per week 160 per day but that just a number when compared to the past.

            People are living nearly 3 times longer a solder used to get paid in salt more valuable than gold salt helped kept you alive.

            I agree with the sentiment of what you and tony say but gold or silver as a money is not a fix, the problem is the banking system as it is and the abuse by the banking system, stock markets and complicit government’s, gold will not fix that.

            The world is getting small and we need to work together tony brogan comes across as if he expecting Armageddon and gold will not protect him that attitude is same as a greedy bankers attitude which is I am all right jack if that is or your concern then salt will be worth more . Money built on trust is the only way , when gold was used war and slavery was more predominant.

          • bonbon

            The title of the 1983 interview with Austrian School icon Professor Friedrich von Hayek is from a remark he made there :
            “I’d like to see a crash before I die”
            Hayek explains why he so desperately yearned for disaster, Armageddon. As well as an international police force to protect free-trade.

          • Realist

            joe hack – “Money built on trust is the only way , when gold was used war and slavery was more predominant.”

            Trust is possible only if there is no monopoly on money creation and usage.
            Gold/silver was suggested as the best possibility due to its properties and there are historical events of moving to gold from fiat money and showing the benefits of it.
            We have of course seen cases of gold being abused by kings reminting it causing inflation, ….
            Salt is no good as you cannot store it for a long, storage space is huge, you have it in abundance and so on ….

            This is why we need to have non-monopoly system only possible in a free market economy.

          • Tony Brogan

            “tony brogan comes across as if he expecting Armageddon and gold will not protect him that attitude is same as a greedy bankers attitude which is I am all right jack”

            Not my position at all Joe. Thoroughly misplaced opinion.

            My writing on this blog has nothing to do with my self preservation but purely to do with trying to place facts squarely in the arena so that others can do what they need to do to help themselves.
            I have nothing to gain by exposing my knowledge to examination by such as you. I would be far better off minding my business and looking after my own self interest. That some people , of course, can not be helped is self evident.

  19. wills

    Human dynamics behind con-artistry is a field worth looking into.

    The article when it touches on it is an interesting read.

  20. martino

    “Tearing Down the Idle Talent”, that’s more like it!

  21. [...] with much that he says on the economy. However, when he strayed recently into commenting on giftedness without having first researched the terminology, he goofed up badly. To put it [...]

  22. Tony Brogan

    It is an interesting thing that a discussion of the merits of team leadership starts with golfers. There is in the Ryder cup little team playing. It is still individual against individual as is the usual game of golf. The team leader in this case is not exhorting the team to all work together but is involved in pulling together a group of individuals and hoping they will do their best to win.

    Armstrong on the other hand relied upon a team to place him in the best position to win. He would have pacers and other tactics to reserve his strength for when most needed. As such the team here must all work together for the common good and team players would suvert their role to ensure the team leader won and also their team won.

    “In the end his obsession ruined not just him and his team, but the integrity of the sport to which he devoted his life”

    It could be argued that the obsession to win produced Armstrong, but it also produced his sponsors, and team mates who had to have known what was happening.

    Perhaps one might argue that the sport, or indeed professional sports in general, is so obsessed with winning that the corruption was already present. I would argue that the corruption in the sport ruined the man rather than as expressed that the man ruined the integrity of the sport.

    I too was in sport. I too was obsessive in that the sport dominated my life and filled my waking thoughts. I too was a winner at a certain level.At one point I was offered the chance to train at a London professional gym. Terry Downes, the Champion of the World in his weight class, was there the day that I attended. There were, I noticed, tins stacked on a shelf on the wall that suggested that one could bulk up and get bigger by consuming the contents. As I was leaving one of the trainers asked if I could give him a ride. So I did, but after a couple of suggested detours we arrived outside a highly fenced yard with a lock double gate. Instructed that his son would see we were there and shortly arrive, we waited. During this time there I was asked if I wanted to lose my car and claim the insurance value.

    Seems the son could “chop” the car quickly and have it re assembled and sold with no one the wiser.
    I declined and neither did I return to the gym. I could smell the corruption.

    So I think we need to look a little closer to home and before we judge Armstrong too harshly recognize, but without condoning his actions, that the conditions existed for him to cheat. He did not create the conditions. Many others in all areas of life are cheats and cheating but it is too easy to stand in judgment until you too have walked a mile in his shoes.

    This includes cheating brokers, bankers, lawyers, buyers and sellers. Rather than prosecuting at the fringe we have to root out the core of the corruption.

    In the economic sense, the problem starts with the system of banking and the production of our money supply. That is the current debt based fiat money system that is corrupting the whole of society. So my good David until I see you address, analyze and dissect that issue I consider you are just pecking around the periphery of the real problems facing us all. Perhaps you too are corrupted and dare not address the fundamental issue of the central banking system.

    Addressing the issue of talent and ability as a function of success there are many examples in stories and life that show.
    The tortoise beating the Hare.
    “Success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.”

    “Life’s battles don’t always go
    To the stronger or faster man,
    But soon or late the man who wins
    Is the one who thinks he can.”

    • Adam Byrne

      Good writing Tony.

      ‘Professional’ sport sickens me a lot of the time. I don’t mean to say that’s your opinion, it’s just what I think.

      There’s too much money involved which corrupts everything it touches – witness the young Northern Ireland golfer’s obscene deal with Nike.

      This doesn’t set a good example for kids, nor does the antics of many professional sportsmen on and off whatever particular ‘field’ they play on – not all of them mind you, but a lot of them.

      • Tony Brogan

        I think it very sad to see a superb athlete perform amazing endevours only to learn later they used substance abuse.
        In Canada we had a sprinter immigrate from Jamaica. He was phenomenal. He broke world records. It was about 5 minutes after his arrival that he was wrapped in a Canadian flag and hailed as a Canadian hero.
        When his doping was discovered and his coach involved and others too the same crowd who lauded him now lambasted him. Johnson was discarded and scrapped. The look on the man’s face and the horror and shock were evident to me. He had been sucked in, cajoled and chewed up and spat out again by the Canadian press and public.
        He has never regained favour even though some page four and five reports recount how he is a regular speaker at high schools and councils on the danger and evils that befell him.Over 20 years and no forgiveness
        As I previously recounted, I learned at age 7 to never trust the crowd and I had plenty in my corner when I was boxing as a young fella. Lots of back slappers. However I must add that I was treated in grand style by the Irish Amateur Boxing Association at that time. I remember them with affection.

    • Realist

      Very nice Tony.

      “..that the conditions existed for him to cheat”
      “This includes cheating brokers, bankers, lawyers, buyers and sellers. Rather than prosecuting at the fringe we have to root out the core of the corruption.”
      “…dare not address the fundamental issue of the central banking system”

      Exactly the conditions that the state creates make some professions lucrative while naming some filty and some prosperous.
      Excellent book about Defending the Undefendable:

      • Tony Brogan

        Walter Block is a leading member of the Frazer Institute based in Vancouver. Often introduced by MSM as ‘that right wing think tank”

        • bonbon

          One must check very carefully which “think-tanks” proclaim what exactly. For example :

          The Open Republic Institute is a member of the Economic Freedom Network established by the Fraser Institute. The Canadian Institute, in collaboration with its worldwide affiliates, annually updates the Economic Freedom of the World Index. The latest report for 2005 is the 9th edition and rates 127 countries for the right-wing, free market, economic freedom concept. Hong Kong achieves the highest rating and Ireland finishes in eighth place. The Open Republic Institute, based on Shelbourne Road in Dublin 4, provides the Index’s Irish research data. Its Directors are Paul MacDonnell, Constantin Gurdgiev and Moore McDowell.
          A rather detailed survey here of the pedigree of this institute.
          Right wing think tanks The Irish connection

          • Tony Brogan

            Good article on the aims of the Fraser institute and is affiliates. I agree largely with the direction stated.
            I disagree with the left /right designations as they are meaningless.
            The Frazer Institute is correctly descibed in the article as being libertarian.
            A libertarian is non agressive, uncoercive, and cooperative in agreements of mutual benefit.

            The Open Instutue in Dublin is in the same vein and equally commendable.

          • bonbon

            Libertarian means Milton Friedman, the Chicago Boys. Of course they glowingly describe themselves. However The Ugly Truth about Milton Friedman by Nancy Spannaus is there for all to read. Everyone by now knows about Pinochet and the Chicago Boys.

            And the smiles at the Mont Pelerin Society are there for all to see, including Milton Friedman, in Austrian School Friends-of-von-Hayek, the Mont Pelerin Society.

            The Canadian Fraser institute has published over 200 books and studies written by staff specialists and sympathetic academics. These have been translated into 20 languages and are sold in more than 50 countries.Their findings generally support the following :
            (From An Phoblacht 20 july 2006)
            - Lower and flatter taxes
            - Maximum privatisation of government functions and services
            - Privatisation of public pensions
            - Commercialisation of the public health care system
            -Provision of increased ‘choice’ in the education system
            - Ending of minimum wage laws and more rigid control over unemployment insurance
            - Reorganisation of welfare programs to ‘encourage’ the unemployed into low paid work coupled with a reduction in government support for those still unemployed.
            - Greater reliance on charity and voluntary work to cater to the needs of the less well off
            - Liberalization of trade, both nationally and internationally
            - Ending of gun control viewing it as a ‘failed experiment’.

            I believe we have seen this agenda repeated here many times. I urger readers to look at that concise report.

          • bonbon

            Then there’s William F. Buckley, Jr., well known for his own fascist sympathies, who, when asked about Friedman’s ideas in 1971, said, “It is possible that Milton Friedman’s policies suffer from the overriding disqualification that they simply cannot get a sufficient exercise in democratic situations.”

            Translation: You need a dictatorship to implement the drastic cuts in consumption and living standards that Friedman’s policies call for.

            Not something people would freely “choose”.

          • Realist

            I will always pick libertarian over fascist/totalitarian aka LaRouche.

          • Tony Brogan

            Libertarian is not Freedman. He is a monetarist.

            You as a LaRouche follower and quoter obviously believe in the LaRouche cult of the 1970′s and the beating with baseball bats of any opposition.
            Be careful of labels Bon bon.

        • bonbon

          Although Block credits Ayn Rand, Branden, and other Objectivists with his initial interest in laissez faire theory in general, he says of Murray Rothbard that,

          After I met Murray, it took him probably all of 15 minutes to convert me to the same anarcho-capitalist position I have held ever since…. In retrospect, before I had met Murray, I was nine tenths of the way toward embracing laissez faire capitalist anarchism; all I needed was a little push in the same direction I had already been going for some time.

          Anarcho Capitalists? Simpy anarchists.

          • Realist

            No state control, all private.
            I see nothing wrong with that idea to be honest having in mind that anything the state doing is badly managed.

            I will always be more for libertarian society than LaRouche fascism and similar totalitarian societies.

          • bonbon

            Anarcho-capitalists, self-described in that wiki link are in truth fascists. It is exactly Nietzsche in a club smoking jacket.

            Anarcho-banksters, while railed as the enemy, meanwhile print to hell.

            A nest of anarchists.

          • Tony Brogan


            Individual liberty within a state of limited power


            Destruction of the state and a bias to group entities such as communism.

            Two very different animals bon bon as you strive yet again to deceive and confuse. your LaRouche policy is closer to anarchy

  23. Tony Brogan

    What the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.
    Napoleon Hill–Think and Grow Rich.

  24. Tony Brogan

    Just as the elites controling the central banks corrupt western society so do they use ther unlimited cash to corrupt foreign countries to place Islamist regimes in power. The regimes are anti western which provides the scenario that western government must address. The effort needed to confront this international menace is used as the anti terrorist legislation to remove our domestic freedoms. Thus are the central banks enslaving us financially and physically as well.


  25. Tony Brogan

    When the house of cards now called “the economy” comes tumbling down, watch our financial media call it a failure of Capitalism. But it won’t be; it will be a failure of our left-leaning Big Government and Academia.

    Mark J. Lundeen


  26. Tony Brogan

    Let’s look at a few of the prime beneficiaries of the Fed’s QE programs; the precious metals and the stock markets. —Mark Lundeen

  27. franta

    I am not surprised at all. The education in Ireland is not as great as everybody in Ireland says it is. I am not only one who is shocked by lack of knowledge and skills of new graduates produced by Irish educational system.
    Unfortunately almost all parents, teachers, civil servants and also politicians are products of this system so you couldn’t be surprised by how it is.
    Is there a solution? Of course there are always solutions. Some might be cheap some expensive but the key would be to discuss them, think about them, test them whenever possible, evaluate them etc. Nothing like that happens in education or in any other area as far as I can see.
    To discover and more importantly to help each single child to discover and unfold their individual talents and abilities is not possible in current educational system. Funnily enough there is Irish company which had developed a solution which might help with problem described in the article. The solution will allow for example continuous assessment of each individual child on “daily” basis and also will allow tailoring of education to each individual child based on their skills, talent but the most importantly on their abilities. No new infrastructure is required to implement this solution (no investment needed!) and the technology needed was offered for free to ministry of education (The solution might even help to save a lot of money). As I wrote last year in one of my comments there was no single interest to discuss this solution (not even from journalist writing about education and criticizing cuts or other changes!). There is no harm to discuss any idea (it is possible it might prove to be unusable) but it is crucial that new ideas are discussed because only new ideas will allow us to improve a future prospect of Irish citizens. Let’s not forget that only solution currently applied is to squeeze more money from ordinary citizens and cut the services paid with it in the same time.

  28. bonbon

    Strange that everyone here bemoaning the state of education, have not attempted to study why this has happened. It did not drop from the sky like we are told the banking crisis did. A paradigm shift began with a conscious decision on the part of the Western financial elite, in cooperation with circles from the former Soviet Union, to change the values of society. In the domain of education in 1963, the founder of the Club of Rome, Dr. Alexander King (then, Commissioner for the O.E.C.D. in Paris), had proposed an education reform for the O.E.C.D. nations, and this original report was an absolutely unheard-of attack on what still remained of the Humboldt education system in the post-war period. In King’s study, everything was discussed in a Nietzschean sense: that we must throw the “educational dead weight” of the last 2,500 years out the window. This campaign, launched by the O.E.C.D., was then carried out in Germany in the 1970′s in the wake of the Brandt education reforms. And it was carried out right across the Transatlantic region now in a catastrophic collapse.

    Tiger mom’s and dad’s are perhaps unwilling to face this. The ’68er shift has resulted in a huge collapse, and it is not fair to blame the kids, to pressure them to perform under a deliberately designed-to-fail curriculum.

    So you can see it was the very global same financial elite who changed the education and values of society, that are now demanding a bailout.

    • joe hack

      Interest Payment Slavery Fodder

    • Tony Brogan

      The bankers fund the foundations which formulate policy that is then fed to the educational system. Thus we are corrupted in the schools and universities and in turn the politicians.

    • Realist

      Privatise schools and give freedom of choice to parents and children to pick what they want.
      If they do not want formal schooling let them teach kids in homes or over Internet.
      Leave the freedom to choose, switch and even abandon schooling.
      You will see how fast, even in a few years the education will improve drastically.

      Today, I asked my son (similarly asking him in the last few months) what interesting he did yesterday in school.
      He could not say one interesting thing he did in school all these times!!!!
      How good is that :)

      • bonbon

        Privatize and the richest financiers buy them, set the curriculum (they badly need high power Black Sholes solvers right?).

        Tiger moms can then decide on the school with the deepest pockets, My Johnny goes to a school funded with gold, your’s is only a fiat school.

        Imagine the Parents-Teachers meetings with the armani suited representative of the foundation – after all market research for competitive advantage is essential.

        Then School Certificate Trading Options? Leaving Cert Future’s – buy now, ye know the kids will perform!

        • Tony Brogan

          It can easily be funded by the state and not privately funded. Issue educational chits to each child to be spent on education at the school of their choice.

          Infrastructure can be provided by the state but privatise the The staffing. There are many private schools operating as business schools etc that are competitively driven.

          You do advocate the full socialist agenda do you not, Mr Bon bon. Your suggestions are already in operation as the foudations and research programs are funded by the elites and they already manage the out put.

          We need to excape from that.

          • bonbon

            “Chits”, not gold?

            Today Uni Oceanography Depts,. cannot get funding unless its publications support the global warming hoax. This is well documented. In other words science is perverted by the free access to funding. I have not even mentioned Physics.

            To expose kids to this is dereliction of duty, rather like the current FG crows dereliction of their duty to the nation, paying off banksters. Noonan uses the Austrian School von Hayek formula when he says emmigration is a lifestyle choice. He is a Bilderberger too.

          • Realist


            Stop monkeying yourself with putting Austrian school as the problem for the current situation.

            We are for freedom of choice and proper competition, free market.
            If you are stupid to not understand that please top posting crap.

            What is wrong with giving people freedom.
            Only in your stupid head this is a problem.

          • bonbon

            Please read the Fraser manifesto, otheres here obviously have. And then see how much of that little anarcho recipe is already being pursued, by smiling gentlemen in the good old Hayek and Friedman “friends” tradition.

            Others here can now read for themselves what is behind those “good uncle” smiles.
            “Milton Friedman’s policies suffer from the overriding disqualification that they simply cannot get a sufficient exercise in democratic situations.” – meaning dictatorship, aka Pinochet is the only way libertarian Friedman and Fraser goals could be reached. All along the way hollering “for the people”.

          • Tony Brogan

            Bon bon sometimes your responses are lunacy.
            Your ends justify your means.
            You never answer a direct question rationally.
            You often stray from the topic in your responses.
            You put people in boxes and stick labels on them.
            You distort definitions to confuse the ignorant.

            Beware, you are in your own little box called LaRouche and that little box is stuffed in a closet, a closet with Lord knows what in there as well.
            Labeling you as a LaRouche acolyte leads to calling you a believer in all sorts of unsavory things.
            So quit the inuendo or we will unload the LaRouche box with you in it.

          • bonbon

            Darwin monkeyed with us, Hayek continued the fashion. I simply quote Friedman, Hayek, and the Anarcho-Capitalists in their own very word, stright from the Horses Mouth so to speak. If you disagree with that , well fine.

            Now back to reality, no inuendo, let’s read what Hayek of the Austrian School actually said in 1983, “I’d like to see a crash before I die”
            Hayek explains why he so desperately yearned for disaster, Armageddon, then an international police force to protect free-trade. It is pretty clear, I think, rather less inuendo than usual, and the ugly mug and paw print shows itself in all it’s glory.

            I can understand the difficulties Austrian School’er acolytes may have with this naked revelation, but people can change their opinions? I think we all have that ability.

          • cooldude

            Bonbon I have no difficulty in responding to this quote from Hayek. I have actually done so earlier in this blog but it seems your head is so stuffed with your preconceived inaccuracies you have failed to notice. Hayek was 100% correct in 1983 that an economic recession was necessary to clear all the dead wood from the economy and would have prevented the world wide depression that is now in existence.

          • Tony Brogan

            Concur with cooldude.
            Hayek was very afraid of the results of the existing monetary policy. He knew that the credit induced boom leads to the inevitable collapse.
            He knew that government/central bankers were intent on kicking the can down the road. He knew it would result in a bigger bust.

            We can see that he was correct.
            His position was simply he would rather have a lesser bust rather than a bigger bust.

            You distort as usual bon bon, deliberately. It is called lieing.

          • bonbon

            That is not what Hayek actually said in the interview. We can go Q&A by Q&A if you like, bit would clog the blog.

          • bonbon

            See the Q&A on anarchy and Chile, dictatorship. Very revealing and now for full public viewing in all it’s stripes.

  29. joe hack

    As is not uncommon David uses odd analogies to point to the education system and the expectation within the system by parents he is not specifically referring to the gifted it is a reference to parent’s expectations of their children and in quotes their “gifted” children.

    This is about conforming to the group think from cradle to grave and how people are fooled in to believing that points system is a measure of success and results mater at any cost.

    This is about how success is measured, was Oppenheimer a success or a failure? was Sean Fitz a success or a failure? was Armstrong a success or failure? this is not about the individual there names can be changed.

    This is about the halo effect that others put around; people and they even quote others like Oppenheimer the assumption is he his all knowing on every issue. Gay Byrne, Pat Kenny et.al when interviewing famous actors would ask their views all sorts of issue. Just because they imitate they are suddenly lauded as expert on everything some even end up as presidents this is called the halo effect it like I prefer the pedestal effect.

    Some would argue that the perceived to be gifted should received more funding for their educational needs but that would mean that others such as those with so called learning difficulties would get less, did not Hitler want sometime similar.

    Daniel Day Lewis the carpenter might well be the next USA president

    • Adam Byrne

      I always found that bizarre myself – the ‘lauded actor experts’ and have said it to many a friend.

      Some over-paid idiot, who makes his living by dressing up and pretending to be someone else, thinks it’s his right and duty to pontificate to the rest of us as to how we should live our lives? Most of the time they haven’t got the first clue what they are talking about.

      Did you see them all last week at the Golden Globes (I caught two minutes of it on the news)? A bunch of self-obsessed infantile assholes.

      They ain’t fooling me.


      • bonbon

        In Germany there is even dedicated “promi-talk” shows, Promi dinners, and the President is elected by a small group including Prominenti.

        This is how oligarchy actually works. “Look at us” actors. And sure enough some of the time all gape, but not all, all of the time.

  30. BirdCourter

    Thought provoking article David. I think in the most simplest and truest expression, we get the brains we’ve earned.

  31. joe hack

    Ireland Inc a factory imprisonment

    I am in my chicken coop today wondering will I be fed by my master or will he cut me bleed me I have given more than most but only have what I began with my bones now soft my muscles weak I dare not move for fear I’m weak my brain hurts to think I am mute was it me have I devoted a crime worthy of this reformatory jack the master he is alright yet his crimes slates and imprisons me how can I escaped when i am asleep time to for despatch to the my master feet as now a broken me will work as fodder for a can of feed

  32. This was a very good article. I said so already but feel like saying it again because it has been a great conversation especially for the contributions from our good friend Tony Brogan. The name reminds me of Jim Brogan and now I will turn down the lights and revisit a story from a long time ago that emphasises the difference between sport and competition. Any true football fan will like this and I know David is a big football man. It is a story of truimph and naivety

    Compare the differences ..

    Celtic 4 Manchester United 1, 1966

    The handshakes at the end are sporting and Sean Fallon believed in being in accepting defeat. A fine Sligo man the Celtic legions labelled The Iron Man. Bobby Charlton once said of Lennox ‘I’d have liked him in my pocket everywhere I went because he was brilliant’.

    Real Madrid 0 Celtic 1
    Alfredo Di Stefano’s testimonial. Celtic are the first foreign team to win in the Bernabau.
    Alfredo walks over to Jinky at the end and hails him as the world’s greatest player while the
    home crowd cried ‘ole’ during the game each time the Jinker was on the ball. A carnival of
    friendly football and mutual respect

    Madrid have no answer to the 5 foot three inch flame haired genius who spent his youth dribbling around clothes poles in his back yard in Lanarkshire close to where Stein and Busby grew up. Talent personified because he mastered his craft better than any body and worked at refining it. Ask Terry Cooper.

    Some of the players had the chance to go to university and Stein encouraged them. Lisbon Lion right back Jim Craig was a dentist and Danny McGrain wanted to become a Mechanical Engineer but playing football for The Celtic was a once in a lifetime chance too good to miss

    Celtic v Racing Club Part 1

    Now we visit the very dark side of human nature in a country far far away where they threaten to shoot our best footballer with a snipe rifle. This is deep in jungle territory and a fight for brave men. Our heroes are brought down to the level and mentality of savages and all that was beautiful is quckly forgotten as Stein is shunned as Busby gets and MBE in 1968 for being second to win the European Cup

    It is a lost cause but Celtic have always been mature and don’t need establishment gongs and baubles to tell us how to act. think and behave. We lived with the pain and it’s water off a duck’s back but we know we should have done better. And that’s why it hurts so much even today for fans and players who remember that sad day in South America

    1967: Celtic – Racing Club, Intercontinental Club Cup

    • It is our heritage more so than the underground tunnels in Liverpool where so many unwanted Irish lived and starved to death. This is why one great Irish moment will always outshine five. In footballing terms 1967 was the year of the Scots and the Irish. It was a watershed in Scottish culture

      Sean Fallon sadly passed away this week at the age of ninety. I listened to him more than any other Celtic man and I always remember one thing he said that stayed with me. ‘It is how you accept defeat that counts’. He was paraphrasing director Bob Kelly and while both men hated defeat, especially to Rangers, you were expected to behave like a man and accept it

      That was in the days when men were men

  33. Tony Brogan

    Slow learners are we not?

    The budget should be balanced. The Treasury should be refilled. The public debt should be reduced. The arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled. And the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed, lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance.

    -Cicero, 55 BC

    • bonbon

      Britain commissioned “The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” by Gibbon, to define how the British Empire could survive while emulating that empire. Well the empire is finished now. The bailouts of the 4th Roman Empire cannot work. Rome economics was always doomed.

      Ireland never had the Roman Empire, did succeed in ejecting the British Empire, and today breaking its financial claims, with Glass-Steagall, will rid us of this millennial scourge.

      Of course only Tigers would think this is easy, or believe it dropped out of the sky.

  34. Tony Brogan

    Posted by Ranting Andy
    Miles Franklin

    We have passed the point of no return, where we can actually get our house back in order. They pretend they are fighting on Capital Hill, but they really are not. They are arguing over power, spin, who looks good, who looks bad. They are all trying to preserve the system where they can spend what they want, take care of their friends, and print money when they need it.

    -Ron Paul

    The leverage deployed by the big four U.S. banks is obscene. They are not brilliant masters of markets; but rather, front-runners with the benefit of having the U.S. government policy scrip in their pockets.

    -Jim Willie

    Every central bank has the same problem caused by the same conditions; i.e., overleveraged economies and sovereign balance sheets that each fight for ‘market share’ of a global trade pie that is not expanding. The solution? Torpedo your own currency to allow your export sector a bigger slice of the pie. A global currency war will be the result.

    -Bill Holter, Miles Franklin

    Japan has already suffered through 25 years of an economic malaise because they have refused to allow the free market to work its reconciliation magic. Their reliance on government borrowing and spending to rescue the economy has proven to be a miserable failure.

    -Michael Pento

    Since central bankers are more determined than ever to destroy their currencies, it seems more important than ever for investors to store their wealth in alternative currencies that cannot have their value inflated away, and that means increasing money flows into both gold and silver.

    -Michael Pento

  35. bonbon

    NEWS FROM THE DAVOS WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM IS CONVEYED BY A CARTOON IN BANGKOK’S THE NATION: A picture of a mountain looking like the pyramid on the dollar bill, with an eye looking out at the top. A sign says “World Ponzi Pyramid Forum,” and the Eye is speaking: “The situation is alarming — more and more people are becoming aware that the world banking system is a scam!”

    • Realist

      So, you are going to replace it with another scam of yours?

      • bonbon

        We split the banking system – dump the fictitious assets and claims. End of empire. It can watch from a safe distance what happens next.

        Then remains the huge almost shattering challenge – to reconstruct after 40 years of monetarism in various guises.

        Anything that attempt to stop this vital, critical jump is monetarist. We have had enough of that. Easy to recognize now as attempts to block progress.

        • Tony Brogan

          How about getting rid of the ponsi scheme completely. The central bank debt based fiat money.

          You never address the issue of the controlling central bank but propose another in a slighty different guise.

  36. bonbon

    Tearing down talent idols, going after Enron or AIB as if it was “clever” not criminal, taking examples of sport as “achievement” and role models for kids?

    Add to that the anarcho-capitalists of the Fraser Institute and the anarcho-banksters printing without pause. Add further Obama’s support of Al-Quaeda, anarcho-politics.

    A new dark age sweeps the transatlantic.

    That is what we have to fight now.

    • bonbon

      I forgot one thing :
      David Attenborough Again Demands: Depopulate the Planet

      To round up : anrcho’s want to get rid of 4 billion persons, and then have their little system, start small.

      Dark ages do that, even if Obama does not use his well documented talent for killing, and launch thermonuclear war.

      • joe hack

        Would that be by natural selection or deselection? let start by getting rid of the talented after all they created the industry that bought about the development that allowed Attenborough to live so long?????????

        • bonbon

          Genocide is not natural, rather simply evil. He should simply go first, don’t ye think?

          • joe hack

            OK what is it now? are you getting into a debate condoms and abortion now and calling it genocide?

            If we are natural beings then….what we do must be natural…..

          • bonbon

            Sir David Attenborough and his sidekick Dr. Schellnhuber, CBE, want to reduce the human population from 7+ billion to a mere 1 billion, and in short order. That is a murder spree that would make Goebbels blush.

            Genocide was and always will be a crime against humanity, not natural but evil, satanic. Defense at the Nürnberg Tribunal “that we could not have known the effect of our actions” got them hung, and rightly so. Anyone that attempts to claim genocide is natural faces the same Tribunal sooner or later. The Irish Genocide of 1847 waa deliberate perpetrated criminality as proven by Travelyan’s letters:
            “It is my opinion that too much has been done for the people. Under such treatment the people have grown worse instead of better, and we must now try what independent exertion, and the operation of natural causes, can do…. I shall rest after two years of such continuous hard work in public service, as I have never had in my life.”

          • joe hack

            Did Attenborough say he gas 6 billion people?

          • bonbon

            Of course not, his Optimum Population Trust, created in 1991, advocates killing some 3-5 billion people by 2050. OPT works closely with Prince Philip’s World Wildlife Fund (WWF), with which it “partners” in the “Global Footprint Network” to publish a “Living Planet” joint report every two years.

            Dr. Schellnhuber proposes total decarbonizaton to achieve the genocide of 6 billion.

            This is why Goebbels blushes…

        • joe hack

          So how can you say that what Attenborough is proposing is genocide? is family planning genocide?

  37. Maria Conroy Byrne

    I think this article generalises a bit.I’m a believer in the concept of some people having inherent talent in particular areas. However, wise parents of talented children will be careful to stress that developing that talent takes motivation, hard work and years of effort. It would be a very silly parent who believed that it was a good idea to praise potential or intelligence without doing anything else to give that child the tools to utilise their gifts. One of the things parents of very intelligent or talented children worry about is the need to prepare them for failure, the fact that they can’t always be winners and the limitations and challenges that they will inevitably face.

    • joe hack

      TRUE but is he saying all? and is not the point a societal issue rather than Mary and John are great parents or think they are and are enlightened.when their child ends up in the system Mary an John may not have the were with all to over come the subliminal messages that little Pete or Saoirse get from the mad world of points / achievements rather than contribution.

      But how can we learn if we are not the talented ones?it not just about the talented ones is it?

    • bonbon

      Great to hear a bit of good Irish resistance there. Of course you are right. See what has happened? What was obvious to a previous generation must now be defended – a cultural shift of the ’68-ers.

      In a Dark Age, and I do not mean the foggy weather, a spark of creative genius is quite likely to end up on the scaffold. Kepler lived in such an age and had to save his mother twice from the pyre. Einstein, ejected from school because he “disoriented students”, is a genius, and narrowly escaped, himself. Have a look at this beautiful video and see the humility, stunning insight, and passion for truth :

      The Genius of Albert Einstein

      When asked “Mr. Einstein, after all those new theories what are you really looking for?” – Answer “The thoughts of God”. And where does he get his inspiration? “From my violin”. He played Bach daily. And we know now he read Kepler.

  38. joe hack

    “Tearing Down the Talent Idol”

    In the search for WMD in Iraq they set out to prove they existed they could not prove it but the Hegemony (fear/loyalty to the USA) within the subordinates in the USAs system convinced themselves they existed so as to please their masters and the try to prove to those that wanted them to exist (their masters) the whistleblower are long forgotten some unemployed some killed themselves.

    As Bradley Manning what happens when you tell the truth of a wrong doing?

    What happens to a whistleblower within Armstrong crew, Anglo, Enron or the Irish finance department?

    David this is closer to what happens in the Enron’s et al in happens in every walk of life.

    This is the human condition that is found everywhere it start at birth within the family, for example, if outsider complains to parents of a child about the child’s conduct the parents will defend that child in some cases to their death even if the child is wrong. It moves from there to all walks of life – from Enron to Armstrong, Anglo to Leinster House, Ireland to nationhood when a person gets a job they will defend the company’s policies such as Enron, Anglo or the USAs WMD.

    That is why we need a money system that is built on trust and since most people are aware of the human condition and its flaws they cannot trust the money system as it is therefore policing the money system is a must.

    The Germans to some extent are proposing this with the banking union it must follow that there is a world banking union due the globalisation.

    This those not mean we cannot have sovereignty but the value of the transaction across boundaries must be transparent and the value of that money must be grounded. Fractional reserve banking must stop across all boundaries people are dying as a result of this pyramid scheme. that you defend.

    for now we have no option but to default: I bet you have not heard that word in a while “Default”? Why should I or you work to pay others Debts? People are at breaking point if you want to write of the debts of a young couple with a mortgage then lets to it for the country and default now. The gambler always returns to the betting shop even when homeless the Hasenstabs will continue to bet their greed is akin to the homeless gambler.

    But better still that we don’t borrow from a ponzi scheme banking system.

    • bonbon

      Not quite, you have omitted a rather satanic little detail – it was Mr. Blair who “sexed up” the threat, and Dr. King was murdered for telling the Truth.

      Mr. Blair is now “peace envoy” for Southwest Asia, and anyone with one eye open must realize what that means.

      What does Mr. Blair represent, after all he managed Obama’s election campaign.

      So to deal with this global anarcho gang, national policies must assert sovereignty OVER that finance, as FDR did in 1933. That is what Glass-Steagall is all about. Any other “measure” leaves the global door open for the anarcho’s.

      • joe hack

        “Mr. Blair” Blair was servant of USA the hegemonic master

        • bonbon

          That’s the Tiger, everything backwards. Blair, of the British Empire, which does exist, is Obama’s handler.

          Sure fools the ones bailing out the banks does’nt it!

          But not all of us all the time!

    • bonbon

      And to top the league of the “talented” that DMcW reels off in the lead, Mr. Blair takes the biscuit. He has caused countless deaths. After all the only references for talent were crooks, thieves.

      Against that apparently unstoppable “trend”, is only our creativity, out humanity. So use it!

    • Tony Brogan

      Good one Joe

      Let us debate the following:

      “That is why we need a money system that is built on trust and since most people are aware of the human condition and its flaws they cannot trust the money system as it is therefore policing the money system is a must”

      The only point of difficulty is —how does one set up a money system that can be trusted if the people doing the setting up are not trustworthy?

      There is no honour among thieves as the saying goes.

      However all people must trade and the thieves must do business with each other. So what to do.

      It would seem we need to retain sovereignty of the nations. That is regain control of monetary and fiscal policy rather than give it away to a monopoly authoritarian one world or regional government.

      At the same time we need open trade and travel throughout the world to have an exchange of goods services and ideas. We need an international currency that is recognised by all but owned by no one. That is we do not want a Pound or a Dollar as reserve currency which gives a favoured nation status.

      This is where I see gold steps in as the international arbiter of pricing for the world in general and silver as the coin of daily life within and accross borders.
      All international trade balances settled between the nations every 90 days. All private exchange between people by local currency or silver exchange by mutual agreement.

      Thus gold is traded in settlement by weight; tonnes, ounces, grams.
      Silver and all currencies are valued against gold as the standard.It would take x amount of silver by weight to purchase an ounce of gold. Currencies would be valued by x amount of currency to purchace one ounce of gold.

      Now we have an internatioal standard, gold, against which all other items are measured and against which they float in value according to market demands.

      No fixing prices.

      Why gold. It is the only substance that is the best suited to the job. It is internationally recognised even by the theives as well as the honest.
      Gold has all the attributed required for this.

      It acts as a store of value as it does not decay.
      It is fungible, that is, every unit of gold is equal to every other unit.
      It is portable for a large value in a small volume.
      It is divisable down to parts of a gram.
      It is relatively scarce so it is not easily replicated. Not able to be printed in unlimited quantities so not subject to dilution by inflation. Mine supply is less that a 2% per annum increase and declining.
      It can not easily be counterfeited.
      It can be accounted for digitally if deposited into a custodial account, so it fits the modern age as well as the past.
      Nations can hold their own gold at home except for the amount held in a central depositry for the purpose of trade. Such central depositry must be open to audit and inspection by any nation on demand. Totally transparent.

  39. Sterling Strength

    If Gold depends on Trust as Money value does therefore the value of Gold cannot be predicted by any interested parties for a gain and will only find its value on what it should be to retain that Trust .

    John ALLEN

    • Dorothy Jones

      Think that trust is gone John. Germany repatriated its gold. Max Keiser highlighted years ago their reserves were elsewhere. German press reported on same this year. Anyhows; they have it back now. Just catchin’ up on Keiser Report and VB and such things this evening…..

      • bonbon

        If any attempt to force a hard British Gold Standard in Germany is attempted, it would be catastrophic. Many austrian School’ers reside in the Bundestag, and industry sees the warning signs :

        Leading German Industry CEO Calls Euro Into Question

        Jan. 19 (EIRNS)—In an interview with Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung daily, Bernd Scheifele, CEO of Heidelberg Cement, one of the world’s leading producers in that industry, says that in spite of all the austerity programs, none of the governments that have practiced this policy has gotten out of the debt. And the main problem internationally, is Europe and its euro system, he says, because “the costs of monetary union are much too high.”

        What Europe really needs, instead, is a strategy for economic growth, that is the only way to overcome the crisis, Scheifele says. His remarks have also been reported internationally, by other media.

        • Tony Brogan

          Reporting by international media is no guarantee of validity. The media MSM are owned by the banking and monied interests. They only report what they want you to hear.

        • bonbon

          Who said the IM gave validity? The CEO did utter those words, and now it sits at the financiers breakfast tables. Let them deny it it was said. And it is true, the Euro is bad for business.

      • Tony Brogan


        I have read a number of reports one German repatriation.
        Germany will NEVER get its gold back as it is not there.
        As reported most of the Western gold has been leasedout, hypothicated or sold over the last 15 years as recorded and reported by http://www.gata.org
        Germany last fall agreed to a small anout to be delivered over time. This January again an agreement to receive 10-15% of their alleged gold from NY over 5 years.
        I will look for links

        • Tony Brogan

          From LeMetropoleCafe.com

          To a person the German gold repatriation news stood out, with everyone remarking that 7 years was a ludicrous amount of time for the Germans to get back only 20% of their gold held in the U.S. What was announced didn’t pass the smell test with anyone and that the real story behind the German announcement was not revealed. What else is new on that score?

          Dave in Denver
          The Bundesbank] isn’t getting what they want, the Federal Reserve is telling them what they can have. The fact that they’re doing it over 7 years instead of 7 weeks, to me, is just an indication that that gold probably isn’t in the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve doesn’t want to have to go out and buy it overnight to fulfill the German demand. They are trying to stretch it out as long as possible in order to keep gold prices controlled. James Turk on King World News

          Bundesbank’s gold repatriation is ‘world historical,’ Rickards says

          Submitted by cpowell on 10:36PM ET Tuesday, January 22, 2013. Section: Daily Dispatches

          10:35p PT Tuesday, January 22, 2013
          Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

          Having relocated from Russia Today to Yahoo Finance’s “Daily Ticker” program, Lauren Lyster today interviewed fund manager and “Currency Wars” author James G. Rickards about the Bundesbank’s attempt to repatriate some of Germany’s gold, a move Rickards considers “world historical” in importance, confirming that gold is “the real base money, high-powered money.” Rickards also expects that China this year or next will announce a tripling or quadrupling of its gold reserves after acquiring the metal surreptitiously. The interview is five minutes long and can be viewed at Yahoo Finance here:


          CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer

      • Tony Brogan

        Anyhows; they have it back now.

        Sad to say , Dorothy, they pretend at this point. The gold is not there to be returned and so Germany not wanting to tilt the apple cart has made a deal for a limited return of the gold over many years. No sacurity there I am afraid. That is NY and London too no doubt. I do not have information on the G gold in Paris.

    • joe hack

      what value would put on the gold?

    • joe hack

      MR. Allen what value would you put on the gold?

      • Tony Brogan

        To monetise gold would likely require a vaule in US dollars in the range of $20,000 an ounce.

        to balance the US accounts including the unallocated debts like social security and Obama care etc It would be 100,000 an ounce.

        Rest assured that gold isin the preocess of being remonetised and will like end up as a part of a basket of currencies called a reserve at a value of 5-10,000 an ounce for gold.

        • joe hack


          • Tony Brogan

            Little value left in the paper dollar.
            1913 it took 21 dollars to by an ounce
            2013 it taked 1682 to by an ounce.

            Purchase power of a dollar reduced about 99% in 100 years. What would you rather find in the back yard buried for 100 years
            An ounce of gold or 212 paper dollars

            Not my perception. Just the facts,sir, nothing but the facts.

          • Tony Brogan

            As we say. Paper money is worth less each day until it is eventually worthless

    • Tony Brogan

      Not quite sure what you are saying John.
      Sterling is an alloy of silver. Usually 92.5% silver and copper the balance. Makes the silver harder wearing and less sunject to wear.

      Gold needs no trust. gold is gold. It can be obtained one from another by mutual agreement. So what you pay for your gold is whatever somebody is willing to accept. That could be an amount of silver or other commodity in trade or an amount of paper currency.
      If somebody doubles the amount of the currency you use and it is in circulation you will need twice as much of it to get your gold and as it will be half the value compared to every other currency it will mean all your inported good to your country have doubled in price. It will stimulate your country’s exports but in terms of gold you will receive half of what you used to as payment for those goods.

    • joe hack

      money is man made

  40. bonbon

    “Armstrong also believed in the ‘ability as a gift’ notion and defined himself as the best. When he decided he couldn’t be so legally, he pumped all sorts of stuff into his veins, cheated and lied; first to himself, then his team and then the world.”

    “This is a very human thing to do. It’s not right, but it’s very human.” McGinley’s view is the opposite, thinking that you can work on ability, try harder and get better, slowly.

    The emphasized sentence apparently has opened the door to calling ENRON “clever”, when in fact ENRON was a criminal enterprise from the get-go. Trying harder, slowly, while the banksters literally rape the economy is very sad. Smart means resolving that scourge before any hard work pays off. That takes talent and a very clear idea of what to do, very human.

    Imagine Al Capone’s defense, that is was very human, but “not right”, to use the baseball bat at dinner.

  41. joe hack

    “Let us make sure we use the best money that money can buy!!” Let us make sure we use the best money that money can buy!” so says Tony Brogan; bril lol

    My tongue is stuck in my tooth where my gold filling was but i will go the the mint and ask them to print some paper money so i can buy gold to replace my lost filling with gold…. oh! have i just made gold a commodity and at how many money units?

    Tony! i can now put my tongue in my cheek without it getting diverted to to empty gold vault in my tooth

    • Tony Brogan

      Bloody hell Joe. A good laugh is needed now and then.
      I too am walking around chewing on my retirement!

      If you see me one day mouthing on my gums you will know I am down to my uppers.

      Take care

  42. joe hack

    What Happens in DAVOS!

  43. joe hack

    That should have been ‘by’ not ‘buy’ jees i could have upset the gold commodity prices


    BY ya all

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