December 26, 2012

Paradox at the heart of the American way

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 187 comments ·

Can you imagine if all the casual sociopaths that you knew in school, the sort of lads that you’d generally give a wide berth, could buy guns with the same ease as they buy Mars bars or laptops? Imagine if all the small time psychopathic drug dealers, not the big ones, but the two-bit lads starting out in their ascent of the criminal ladder, had assault rifles in the back of their pimped Honda Civics? Can you imagine how terrifying that Ireland on a Friday night would be?

Now consider that large sections of this imaginary Irish population thought that the best way to combat this gun epidemic was to provide more guns to more people so that we could all be ready for a gunfight at the drop of a Stetson?

After yet another unfathomable gun massacre, after yet another week when one more haunted, disturbed-looking young man stared out of the front page of the papers, after another week when more wailing parents buried their innocents, how is it possible that Americans don’t act to rid their country of guns? How come having a gun in the United States is treated as an issue of a person’s “rights” rather than an issue of other people’s “health and safety”? These questions sum up why many Europeans have difficulty understanding the US.

But it’s not just Europeans, millions of Americans are in despair. What will be done? Writing this week on his blog, David Simon, the creator and the writer of the Wire, made the point that while President Obama called for flags to be at half mast to mark this “extraordinary” event, the killings were not extraordinary but in fact fairly commonplace in the US. For example, in 2008, there were 12,000 gun killings in the US. In Ireland, there were 59 in 2009, which is far too high but it is 1.2 deaths per 100,000 people as opposed to 11 per 100,000 in the USA. This means you are ten times more likely to be shot dead in the States than here.

After all the shock and trauma, America will move on and guns will not be banned, nor will they be much harder to buy. It is a truly shocking realization.

In the US it seems that along with “one man, one vote” democracy and “one man, one dollar” capitalism, we can now add “one man, one gun” as a fundamental, immovable pillar of the American way.

So if America is not going to ban guns for fear of upsetting the gun lobby and the right wing maybe it could deploy economics to reduce the incentive not so much to own a gun but to fire it.

The wonderful black American comic, Chris Rock had a great skit a few years ago about how increasing the price of bullets to $5,000 would reduce drive by killings and the like. He of course was being humorous and, as a black man from Brooklyn, he knows more than most about the prevalence of guns in the ghetto. But this idea of making certain bullets more expensive tallies with the late great Irish American politician Patrick Moynihan who, in the early 1990s, proposed a tax on bullets.

Moynihan suggested a 10,000% tax on certain types of bullets. Of course the initiative went nowhere because the vast proportion of gun-owning Americans fall into that category which tends to go together with God fearing, loyal, patriotic citizens.

And this is where America becomes increasingly complex for Europeans to get a handle on and vice versa.
At the moment, not two months since we thought that President Obama won the ultimate American culture war — the US election- the culture war still rages. This week it is over guns but simmering all the way through this anaemic recovery is the culture war over the economy.

Interestingly, as a general rule, those who believe in the freedom to bear arms fulminate at the huge one trillion dollar deficit that President Obama is presiding over. Meanwhile, mention the name Ben Bernanke to members of the NRA and they are likely to react violently because Bernanke has undertaken to print as much money as necessary to prevent US unemployment from rising.

To many Americans, government spending and the Fed’s aggressive easing of monetary policy through quantitative easing is a much greater threat to a person’s liberty and freedom than a deranged young man having access to an assault rifle.

For many of us Europeans this is a hard circle to square. But maybe the best way to examine it is through the prism of one of the golden rules of macroeconomics — the paradox of aggregation. The paradox of aggregation alludes to the notion that when something is good for the individual it is not necessarily good for the collective.

In the same way, what might make the individual with the gun feel good about himself or even more secure and safer, this contrasts with the situation where we all have guns as it makes us all less safe because the chances of getting shot rise exponentially. And we end up in the situation like in the US where many people buy guns in order to make themselves feel more safe and you end up in a society where you are ten times more likely of getting shot dead than a society like Ireland.

So the pursuit of personal security and freedom makes you less secure and ultimately less free.
Now think about the economy. The reason that President Obama and Bernanke are trying to expand the economy is precisely because of the same paradox of aggregation. When a society, like the US or Ireland, is trying to recover from a credit splurge, people try to save money and sell some of the stuff they bought in the boom. If I as an individual save more and try to off load a flat bought in the boom, it makes my position better as long as only I save and only I sell.

But if we all do it at the same time, what happens? If we are all saving, no one is spending and we all suffer and if we are all selling houses, the price of all houses fall and the very act of trying to get out of debt, puts us in more debt relative to the asset we bought because the price of assets is falling while the debt remains the same.

So in the process of trying to be more financially secure, we become more financially insecure.
Similarly the man who buys a gun is only made safe if no one else buys a gun. But is everyone buys a gun in order to make themselves more secure, everyone becomes more insecure and more likely to get shot.
This is why the pursuit of extreme individualism whether it is in the arena of personal security or in the area of financial security and economics can lead to everyone being worse off.

Happy Christmas.

David McWilliams’ new book The Good Room is out now.

  1. chrissu

    The US should look at how Canada runs its gun laws/culture and aspire to that rather than attempting to ban this or the other, which will only raise the ire of the NRA and their supporters. As always, a sensible balance needs to be found between the ‘individual right’ and the ‘common good’.

  2. Thriftcriminal

    Virtually everyone in Switzerland has an assault rifle, from military training. Not so many gun deaths there. Not advocating guns, just alluding to the correlation/causality conundrum.

    • DB4545

      David I know you’re trying to make the analogy between US gun culture and the economy but I feel that you’ve failed to make the case here. My profession brings me into contact with many of the two-bit criminals you talk about and the middle-management of the criminal elements of Irish society together with those people trying to protect us from them. It would chill your blood and astonish you to realise the ease of access that criminals have to firearms. A simple phone call and cash will get you a brand new firearm ranging from sawn-off shotguns,semi-auto pistols to assault rifles. As one young man said to me “it’s easier than buying a pizza and safer than buying a burger in O’Connell Street at night”. These firearms can then be used and(thanks to CSI and similar TV shows which have educated criminals in forensic awareness)discarded with ease. Cheap flights to Eastern European Countries with excellent firing ranges have created a criminal element who have undergone more frequent firearms training than most Gardai. A licenced firearm holder who uses his/her firearm to defend him/herself is easily linked to the firearm and will face the full rigour of the law as s/he should as I’m not advocating anarchy. Patrick Nally had to face the Courts and has to deal with the enormity of taking a life in self-defence. Again David you would be astonished at the brutality and complete and utter lack of remorse of most criminals.The contributor above made the point about Switzerland. The level of firearm ownership in Switzerland is similar to the US. I feel that the insane level of gun deaths in the US can be attributed the second amendment focus on the “right to bear arms” without a counterbalancing focus on the “responsibility of bearing arms”. I feel with this article David that you reveal a south Dublin urbanite mentality. A Police service(just like a Fire service is largely reactive rather than preventative) and for good reason, as we would otherwise have a Police State using up enormous resources. The affluent urban areas in this State(like most countries) are very well resourced for policing. We have a Dart service in policing just as we have in transport links.Poor and rural areas are not very well resourced and are becoming much less so. Ring the Gardai in an emergency in Ballsbridge,Coolock or Leitrim. With respect to the Gardai I suspect you may get a variety of response times. In conclusion David I would ask that you reflect on the above. At times life can be brutal and very violent. Given the predatory nature of criminals there is rarely a policeman/woman available to defend you in those moments. When that alarm goes off or floodlights light up a farmyard and ice runs down your back a firearm may be your only available Police Service. To use an American phrase “God made Man, Sam Colt made them equal”.

    • Realist

      Are schools in Switzerland gun free zones, like in the US?

      Maybe it is not too good to have mixed standards for schools and elsewhere in the same state?

      “Would you feel safe putting a sign in front of your home saying, “This home is a gun-free zone”? Law-abiding citizens might be pleased by such a sign, but to criminals it would be an invitation.”

  3. Falls

    let me guess, we should depend on government to defend us. Jesus, really? the same governments that gave us the banking crisis? thats your solution? God help us all. you could not be more wrong. someone who is going to shoot up a school has already cross the rubicon, they are engaging in or about to engage in illegal behaviour. do you think because you banned guns thats going to stop them? the only person who follows the gun laws is law abiding people. Pistols are as good as banned here, so between you and the thugs– who is unarmed? when you beg for your life, be sure to tell them they are breaking the laws about gun owndership…that will stop them. people who will give up guns are the people who follow the law. during the 70′s,80′s,90′s, guns were as good as banned here? how did that work out for you? go tell the people on the border farms targetted that guns are bad. remember, when seconds count — the police are only minutes away or in Ireland..several hours. if it comes to defending my family,me, i want the choice and i will arm myself. if you wish to remain unarmed, have at it. automatic weapons in norway are banned and were banned prior to the massacre, how did that work out for you who wish to remain unarmed? go tell the kids on the island, its safer they dont have guns, so they can hide behind rocks or try to swim while he took his time with bullets filled with deadly levels of nicotine while to police try to get a boat. were explosives banned? how did that work out for you? the solution to guns is not less, its more. if i am in my house in a area with a soon to be closed garda station, sorry but it may take a while for them to arrive from dublin 4 and protecting the luncheon crowd. if someone is coming up my stairs, if its between my family and polite society feeling good about its self about how progressive it is — thanks i will take the 12 gauge. if one teacher in that school was armed, if the principal was armed, the outcome of that shooting would be different. wake up. the world is filled with bad people. bad things happen…and just writing a ban so you feel better about yourself is a childish solution. i tell you what lets ban death and cruel things and horrible things…after all that should work going by your logic? what, that sounds ridiculous? almost as ridiculous as banning guns will stop gun crime..
    also go educate yourself on the stats on crime drops where concealed carry is allowed..and no you wont find that on MSNBC.
    also go educate yourself as to why they have guns in America..its about the ability to protect yourself from government, its the final line in the sand. to quote Thomas Jefferson..”No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government”.

  4. Look at a list of keywords from the article:
    Sociopathic, unfathomable, shocking, desparate, shocked, traumatised etc

    The American way is brutal and violent and the violence is sickening not only in Amerika but in their quest to dominate the world through murderous violence

    American gun culture is disturbing and even more worrying is the suggestion from the NRA to arm school security guards. I can’t fathom minds like these and sometimes I seriously wonder if they are mentally disturbed

    ‘Millions of Americans are in despair’. Yes David they are, for many reasons, and I am glad you finally admit it. You are brave to open up the debate and lift the lid on the nation we imagine we have a special relationship with

    The paradox of aggregation is interesting because the same thing could be said about wealth and political representation. In the words of Bruce Springsteen : ‘Unless everybody wins no body wins’

    Delighted to hear to condemn extreme individualism.

    Where have you gone, Joe DiMaggio
    A nation turns it’s lonely eyes to you

  5. Pat Flannery

    Thank you for that Falls.

    I can tell you that personally I felt much safer unarmed in teeming Southern California than I currently do unarmed in “peaceful” rural Ireland where a Garda is as rare as a politician or a banker in the dole queue.

    For the first time in my life I am considering “arming up”. How is that for a paradox David? Got a theory for that socio-economic phenomenon? Looked at the Irish suicide rate lately? Have you noticed that most mass shootings in America are suicides? Is suicide-by-home-invasion the next big thing in Ireland?

  6. It’s interesting that Peter Lanza, the father of the Conneticut gunman was due to testify in the LIBOR scandal. There are articles out there detailing major discrpenencies in the seqeuence of events and what was reported in the main stream media. Stories have been doctored and it is beginning to look like the official version of events stinks. It does not add up

    The link below is one of many articles by this guy Kirwan who has a lot to say about the state of America. He is a gun proponent and a scary individual but if we are to start to understand the America of Today we need to hear it from the horses mouth

    Personally I think they they are all stone mad


    • Some are suggesting the evidence points to a three man death squad operation as opposed to a lone gunman. Interesting

    • cdivision

      Hang on. Wasn’t the same Libor connection made with the father of James Holmes, the Aurora cinema shooter? I looked into that claim and could find no evidence for it other than lots of internet chatter which initially sounded plausible. I would imagine that the same applies in the case of Danza senior. Sounds way too far fetched that both could be Libor connected.

  7. Edward Smyth

    SPIRITUAL REVOLUTION, that is what it is. We are all 3-patr beings, body, mind and spirit,,,when we refuse to engage the 3rd one we create an incubator for evil and hatred, new gun laws or a total band of owning fire-arms could not and will not prevented this or any other massacre of the innocence. This is not only a problem in the US but is raising its ugly head in most other so called civilized societies including Ireland. Sad but noneless the truth.

    The following is part of his script read to Congress by the father of a child victim in the Columbine High massacre.

    “Since the dawn of creation there has been both good &evil in the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for answers.
    “The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.. Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain, and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain’s heart.
    “In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun. I am not here to represent or defend the NRA – because I don’t believe that they are responsible for my daughter’s death. Therefore I do not believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to do with Rachel’s murder I would be their strongest opponent
    I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a tragedy — it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. I wrote a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best.

    Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
    Your words are empty air.
    You’ve stripped away our heritage,
    You’ve outlawed simple prayer.
    Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
    And precious children die.
    You seek for answers everywhere,
    And ask the question “Why?”
    You regulate restrictive laws,
    Through legislative creed.
    And yet you fail to understand,
    That God is what we need!

    “Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and wreak havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation’s history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact.
    What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine’s tragedy occurs — politicians immediately look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restrictive laws.
    Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.

    “As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes, he did not hesitate to pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I challenge every young person in America , and around the world, to realize that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate with Him.

    To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA — I give to you a sincere challenge.. Dare to examine your own heart before casting the first stone!
    My daughter’s death will not be in vain! The young people of this country will not allow that to happen!”
    – Darrell Scott


    America has spent the past 40 yrs losing a vastly expensive war on drugs. It all stems from their insane involvement in Vietnam’s genocide 1965- 1975. Once drugs hit main street, the Geenie couldn’t be returned to it’s botle. Dito with guns, the lunatic who shot two fireman yesterday is just psycho Vietnam vet.

  9. george

    David it seems to me that if we really want to get to the root of the matter, there are another ingredients in the mix other than guns!

    Are we ever going to know, what type of prescribed legal drugs if any, were the murderers consuming when they carry on a gun massacre, and for how long?

    Is overmedicated America, Ireland, and the rest of the Western World, really interested in doing a thorough investigation regarding this issues? Or it isn’t so convenient, because it can affect very powerful economic interests, from big companies and professionals, and even the educational system?

    Couldn’t this be another case where the remedy is worst than the illness?
    Who is to be blame, the beast or the hand feeding it?
    So we might look at guns, TV and videogame contents, convinient food, and legal drugs, and we might get some results. In the meantime it seems to me that we’ll be going from bad to worst!
    Also we should reflect deeply in the meaning of the word “freedom”.

  10. Adam Byrne

    Merry Christmas

  11. gizzy

    We have our own cultural battles too. I went for my once a year visit to mass the other day. The priest who is obviously still influential to a certain gereration got emotive on the abortion issue and spoke strongly on the right to life.

    In regard to the economy he said it is tough but that there are no quick fixes. He did not get emotional just passed around the collection plates twice.

    Condemned abortion no condemnation of austerity.

    Intereseting that the RC church are so interested in the right to life but have so little to say on the qaulity of life.

    As to the Americans one can not really use that as a collective. An Asian who lives in Queens has nothing in common with a good ole boy from Missouri. With the change in demographics and electoral profile in the next few generations it is likely the good ole boy republican may start to look like an Irish Unionis not really loved by anybody but their own and boxed into certain states. That could mean large democrat majority in Houses and in Presidential elections, then and only then might take on the NRA, the arms producers and the Banks but they won’t lie down quietly.

  12. fbuckley

    Think the Americans are one great paradox, inclined to greatness in world leadership, sports and business achievement but at the same time, harbouring some notions that completely puzzle the rest of the world.

    It strikes me that the US is struggling to redefine itself in a new world order where their previous overwhelming might is under question, where their previous betes noires (communism, Russia..)have changed. Take the military, business, entertainment and sporting worlds for instance, they are not the sole “shapers” they once were.

    I think this self-doubt reflects in the extreme divisions in American society. Ronald Reagen was the last president they led a united the country. Ever since his term ended there has been an extreme polarisation among Americans that is becoming increasingly dysfunctional a la fiscal cliff, gun-control etc etc. They really are hardening along extreme idealogical lines and it is very hard see this end up any other way than in extreme acrimony, violence and recrimination. Who knows, another civil war ?

  13. bonbon

    With around 600 Irish suicides between 2011 and 2012, up 7% from before 2008, one sees guns are not needed – some way can always be found. A gun never fired itself.>Obama’s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone while weeping for the Newport dead in the latest episode. Every Tuesday morning Obama does the kill list now exposed.

    Monbiot’s Guardian article “For Whom Do We Cry?” : “If the victims of Obama strikes are mentioned by the state at all, they are discussed in terms that suggest that they are less than human…. Or they are reduced to vegetation.” Monbiot quotes Obama counterterrorism adviser, and cynical accomplice Bruce Riedel about the program, that, “You’ve got to mow the lawn all the time. The minute you stop mowing, the grass is going to grow back.”

    This emphasizes the necessity for impeachment against Obama.

    That kid was known to have serious psychological problems but no treatment, “reduced to vegetation”. Obama’s health cuts are removing even more needed care exactly as Enda is doing. Look at the computer games parents are buying for teeners and remember Norway’s Brevic was a seasoned player, as were the Columbine’rs and almost all other cases.

    This is the cultural result of the ’68ers after JFK was murdered, a long slide to Obama’s drones, the 10 year East Asia war, the drug reaction now assumed to be normal.

    Now think about the economy, the reason Bernanke wants QEV is because he is certifiably insane.

    The lead article seems to suggest an island of sanity in the FED? Nothing could be further from the truth. The austerity being imposed in the name of “credit expansion”, Quantitive Easing V, is exactly the same as what is being done to Greece. This is incompetent economics.

    I find it a bit sideways to conflate criticism of Bernanke’s insanity with the NRA, or with Austerians (extreme liberal individualism imported from London’s Hayek), neither of whom have any understanding of the American System of Political Economy.

    Bernanke cannot possibly do anything except hyperinflate, his previous efforts he admitted as not working, within the accepted FED parameters. More of the same that does not work? Einstein’d definition of insanity!

    The only way now is Restoring the American Credit System :

    Phase I Glass-Steagall — Righting The Wrongs
    Phase II Determining Value — Breaking Bad Habits
    Phase III Establishing a Credit Fund — How it works
    Phase IV Funding The Public Debt — Restoring The Economy

  14. bonbon

    With around 600 Irish suicides between 2011 and 2012, up 7% from before 2008, one sees guns are not needed — some way can always be found. A gun never fired itself.

    Obama’s Drones Have Killed at Least 176 Children in Pakistan Alone while weeping for the Newport dead in the latest episode. Every Tuesday morning Obama does the kill list now exposed.

    Monbiot’s Guardian article “For Whom Do We Cry?” : “If the victims of Obama strikes are mentioned by the state at all, they are discussed in terms that suggest that they are less than human…. Or they are reduced to vegetation.” Monbiot quotes Obama counterterrorism adviser, and cynical accomplice Bruce Riedel about the program, that, “You’ve got to mow the lawn all the time. The minute you stop mowing, the grass is going to grow back.”

    This emphasizes the necessity for impeachment against Obama.

    That kid was known to have serious psychological problems but no treatment, “reduced to vegetation”. Obama’s health cuts are removing even more needed care exactly as Enda is doing. Look at the computer games parents are buying for teeners and remember Norway’s Brevic was a seasoned player, as were the Columbine’rs and almost all other cases.

    This is the cultural result of the ’68ers after JFK was murdered, a long slide to Obama’s drones, the 10 year East Asia war, the drug reaction now assumed to be normal.

    • bonbon

      Now think about the economy, the reason Bernanke wants QEV is because he is certifiably insane.

      The lead article seems to suggest an island of sanity in the FED? Nothing could be further from the truth. The austerity being imposed in the name of “credit expansion”, Quantitive Easing V, is exactly the same as what is being done to Greece. This is incompetent economics.

      I find it a bit sideways to conflate criticism of Bernanke’s insanity with the NRA, or with Austerians (extreme liberal individualism imported from London’s Hayek), neither of whom have any understanding of the American System of Political Economy.

      Bernanke cannot possibly do anything except hyperinflate, his previous efforts he admitted as not working, within the accepted FED parameters. More of the same that does not work? Einstein’d definition of insanity!

      The only way now is Restoring the American Credit System :

      Phase I Glass-Steagall – Righting The Wrongs

        • Realist

          If you abolish FED do you need GS?

          Only good I would agree with you is to get rid of FED and ECB in Europe, and central banks elsewhere.

          Crazy government projects with coerced money and national bank is no good at all. We had such in communism and socialism and that did not really bring prosperity. Trip to moon and Mars are not what people want really.

          • bonbon

            I understand the communist problem – Andropov showed this exactly when Reagan proposed SDI in 1983, publicly. He could not change (or the committee). Now We face the exact same problem with Wall Street Obama-Blair. Empire cannoot see the way out.

            Before some London Scholl of Economics pundit says FDR was a “socialist”, let’s look at the American Credit System in 4 phases. This is something we can all relate to. Drop acquired “post-socialist2 monetarism, Britain’s speciality.

            The Austrian line some have been gripped with, is simply British monetarism, the empire’s problem.

          • Realist

            You do not understand anything, otherwise these crazy project proposals will not be in your plans.
            Government led projects are never going to be things people need nor want.
            They are not something that are coming from people’s needs but from politicians needs.

          • bonbon

            Politics of the people, for the people, by the people needs economic recovery. It will not effuse from lumps of gold, nor rich wallets.

            See How Americas Economy can Win Again for a serious discussion in the Washington Times this week.

          • Realist

            That is neither serious not interesting.
            Why would people want NAWAPA or any other government led huge project to spend their money on?
            Governments showed us plainly how stupid they are to do anything useful with money, so it is always better for people to decide how to spend money themselves, each of them for himself.

            And it all comes from the fact that it is not possible to have encompassing knowledge on the central level, what to be done with economics.

      • Of course Obama appears insane. Give me the name of one American president who was not labelled insane?

        Pleas of insanity are the refuge of persons who cannot accept truth.

        Big city crook. Just like Kennedy

        Conman who climbed too high only to discover the true layers of Real power that exist above municipal politics and even the presidency of the US of A

        Layers of power that so obvious to any thinking person yet are denied by compilicit macisnes such as RTE and TV3.

  15. Some fine writing on how television media is making people stupid …

    How the Newtown massacre became a Mind-Control television event


    The Sandy Hook School Massacre: Unanswered Questions and Missing Information

  16. mrlennyman

    Your segue from the second ammendment rights of the American constitution into the quantitive easing policies of the US Government via the private entity which is the Federal Reserve is tenuous at best.

    The right to bear arms is in situ so that an individual can defend his ir herself in the face of attack. This is in place to protect the individual. Extending your specious reasoning to assume that because guns are legal, everyone will go out and shoot people is an insult to logic.

    If heroin was legal would you expect more people to go out and OD or even try it?

    As for your idea that the Fed printing money staves off unemployment then I must be living on planet Zorg. How does inflating an economy with cash and reducing the value of lower and middle class peoples wealth create more jobs?

    Your article is sensational and appeals to base emotional responses.

    I have not been on your site for a while as I found that the articles were perfunctory and jaded.

    I am afraid nothing much has changed.

  17. Irish PI

    Stick with what you know !!You have gone down 100% in my ratings by the first few sentences,like that you can buy guns as easy as Mars bars in America!!!
    Thats a typical European and a myth spouted by the totally IGNORANT!! and You obviously know Sweet Fanny Adams about the US gun laws and Constitution!!

    Next time you are in America,Maybe go and try to buy a gun and see how supposedly easy it is.You might actually learn somthing,as I would suggest to any of the opinionated Irish people who spout some of the most ignorant drivel n American gun laws to go and try likewise..You might actually LEARN somthing.

  18. John Q. Public

    David, maybe if you came home from work one day to find your kids and wife murdered or raped or both and all your stuff robbed you would have a different view of gun laws. The truth is many people in America are very safe because those gangbangers and thugs you mentioned don’t know who is armed. It makes bad guys think twice about who they rob. If you took the guns out of people’s houses then robberies would increase in numbers.

  19. SMOKEY

    David,I know you have lived in both the states and here but I can tell you that it is a far safer place than you make out. I would feel much safer in San Francisco or New York at 3 am on the street than I would in Limerick or Tipperary or Dublin I can assure you.
    Guns arent the problem, its the fact that the father left the mother to look after this sick fuck when he was only 14 and she wasnt able to do it on her own.
    She was stupid enough to allow him access to her guns and the Dad hadnt seen or heard from him in at least six months.
    I blame the lack of parenting and a divorce situation for this breakdown and mass killing.
    The parents should have had him locked up a long time ago but were too self involved to give a shit.
    As for banning guns in the US? Ha ha hah haa ha , good luck with that one.
    Aint gonna happen in your lifetime and even if it were implemented tomorrow you would just have another black market criminal enterprise worth billions.

  20. george

    Bonbon: “600 suicides in Ireland”
    I ask myself the same question that regarding the gun masacres in the USA

    1. Are we ever going to know, what type of prescribed legal drugs if any this unfortunate people were taking?
    2. Are we really interested in doing a thorough investigation regarding these issues? Or it isn’t so convenient, because it can affect very powerful economic interests, from big companies and professionals, and even the educational system?
    3. Can any of the antidepressant drugs, (or alcohol or illegal drugs for the matter) widely available really help you to get you over a bad relationship, a debt situation, or a problem of low self esteem?
    4. Can we really find happiness through a pill?
    5. Do we really know, or are we really told the long time side effects of it?
    6. Couldn’t it be another situation where the remedy being worst than the illness?

    Edward Smyth commented about our three parts beings: “body, mind and spirit”. It seems to me, that the only way our spirit can be in equilibrium or at least close to it, is by being very careful of what you allow others and yourself, to put into your body and into your mind.

    • bonbon

      Kids needing psychological care have been prescribed Prozac and Ritalin for at least 20 years and this is now going on in Europe. The parents are threatened by the school “psychologist – drug dealer”, that unless the kid takes those to cure Attention Deficit and other Disorders, they will have to throw the kid out. These drugs are deadly and well documented.

      Add to that the extreme computer-game use (that the parents bought the kids) and the economic disaster under Obama (the Drone Killer President).

      Telling the parents of the danger of computer-games has not stopped sales. These games were developed as US Army training programs. Telling the schools of the danger of Prozac (the happy drug) causes uproar – anything else is too expensive under Obama’s cuts.

      Experts can’t wish away violence in America’s Schools

      For how, why and what was done, works: Littleton

      Menticide, the destruction of the mind, is what is going on. This is a war where kids are victims, like Obama’s Drone attacks. There is a culture that must be faced head on. There are reasons and roots that must be understood. It is basically an attack on civilization itself, has been going on a very long time, uses well known methods for well known ends.

      The best proof of this is Obama’s collaboration with Al Qaeda, exactly the model of the Taliban before. There is an attempt at a complete breakup of civilization going even to thermonuclear war with Russia. An empire is collapsing and is flailing – mass casualties are to be expected.

      So do not get lost in body counts, go for a full assault against this zombie empire with the American Credit System. This is the model for survival here, and the very interesting truth is Arthur Griffith founded Eire on this principle, as did Friedrich List for Germany.

  21. george

    Unless you are really nuts, who in its right mind would like to see a Society in which guns are readily available to everybody, like in the USA? If you are not a hunter, or a soldier of the Swiss army; which is the justifiable reason and purpose, of having a gun?
    Isn’t it awful to see adults from the NRA bringing their children to Gun Shows, as I’ve seen recently in the news, so they’ll develop a liking for it?
    Isn’t it awful that some people within the NRA, want that Schools will be provided with weapons, so they can defend itself from future attacks.
    How insane you’ve to be, to contemplate such a gross way of thinking?

    • John Q. Public

      How about self defence George? Maybe those nra parents are good parents and give their kids all the love and support they need in life. They will undoubtedly grow up ok and NOT fucked up in the head.

    • bonbon

      No mention of computer games there. The alarm signal for police is the lethality, kill rate, of perpetrators since Littleton. Police themselves cannot approach such rates. The reason is well known – computer games were developed by the US Army after Vietnam to deal with the well known problem of normal recruits – they aim away. Those recruits that do not are thrown out as they will aim at the Sargent too. To give these games to teens and pre-teens is a crime. Killing becomes disconnected from any kind of conscience. These are precise killing trainers. And the Boomer or Tiger parents defend their right to give kids Christmas killer presents!

      Giving these trainers to teens is creating a terrorist culture that can break out anywhere. Obama supporting terrorists is just more of this – two flanks against civilization.

      • John Q. Public

        bonbon, I’ve heard mixed reports on video games. Some ‘experts’ say that they are bad for kids and others say they are no harm at all. I’d prefer if kids were climbing trees myself but kids left to their own devices can also cause trouble so I’m not sure what the solution is. More sports might do the trick.

        • bonbon

          See Col. Grossman’s report below to dispel any obfuscation by media pundits, talk show head like Larry King, and politico’s – he explains as an expert on killing, has investigated multiple shootings.

          Do not be mixed up by mixed reports.

    • Irish PI

      Isnt it awful that Irish parents just let their kids in front of the TV or computor to play Killer training games and not bother one little bit on what effects that is having on them??
      Isnt it awful that modern “street rap ” songs usually sung by wanna be street gang members refer to women as Whores,bitches and other terms of sexula degradation,and that “popin a cap in some muthafukas ass is the best???”
      Who want their kids to become street gang bangers with a total disrespect for women??
      How insane can you be to let your kids grow up like that??

  22. allblackmagic

    Just a small point that’s often overlooked:

    The Second Amendment passed by Congress states that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

    The formation of the National Guard, a standing Army, and other armed forces long ago took away the need for individual citizens to maintain arms at home as part of a militia.

    Two other points:

    1. Gun crime seems to be determined by the social environment e.g. Canada v USA in the same way as alcohol fuels crime in the UK and Australia far more than in France or Italy.

    2. Even the tightest laws can’t prevent the occasional unbalanced but determined man from killing as many people as possible with a gun – Aramoana in New Zealand (13), Utøya in Norway (69) and Dunblane in Scotland (17).

    Finally, some questions:
    1. Why don’t women try to massacre people with guns?
    2. Why are the chosen victims often children?
    3. How can an economic model of man “The agent of economic theory is rational, selfish, and his tastes do not change…” (in the words of Swiss economist Bruno Frey) help mitigate the risk of the irrational?

    • bonbon

      1 – Some use other methods – lead or poison who cares
      2 – Computer games given to teens, killer training, see Col. Grossman below
      3 – Progress through development, America’s strength, to be put as priority number 1

      With cultural progress none of these questions even occur. See my post on the American Credit System below.

  23. John Q. Public

    Please type ‘Jackie Mason gun control’ into Youtube and watch all the videos.

  24. george

    Once you start to develop a cult for something, “that something” will define your way of thinking and acting.
    If you develop a cult for weapons, in most probabilities you’ll end up by using them, and find the easy excuse of self-defence. We are better off by putting our energies in creating a fair and just societies, with cultural values of human kindness, than by the widespread use of weapons, that have only one and only purpose, the one of killing.
    In Civilized Societies the people shouldn’t have to carry guns. Unfortunately we keep treating the symptoms and not the causes of our individual, collective, and global dysfunctionality. So the case of “self defence” is a recurrent one, not only from individuals, but from nations as well, with a primitive mind, so to speak.

    • DB4545

      George in civilized societies people should not have to carry guns. Unfortunately we don’t live in Utopia and no political, religious or economic ideology proposed by mankind has managed to create a Utopia. I accept most people are decent and want to live in peaceful co-existence with their neighbours. I know I do. However every society on the planet has a certain level of predators who will manipulate,evade or ignore well meaning laws to take what they want from society. The Nazis introduced laws to identify gun owners by religion and then disarm “anti national socialist elements in society”. That form of gun control led disarmed Germans and other Europeans to the gates of Auschwitz. The first proponents of gun control in the US were the defeated confederate states. The Ku Klux Klan advocated gun control and used restrictive gun legislation to disarm and then murder black citizens. In modern western societies we delegate and contract “policing and self-defence” functions to police agencies funded by taxpayers. I have no problem delegating policing functions to police agencies. It seems oxymoronic to suggest that we can delegate self-defence. Rabbits can introduce all the well meaning laws they like and agree to live in harmony with each other. The problem is getting foxes to obey these laws. It does’nt work in nature or human societies for the same reason. Every eco-system develops prey and predators. This form of gun control does’nt work because people with criminal intent don’t obey gun control laws. It just makes law abiding citizens easy prey. In conclusion if Mr. Patrick had been unarmed he would most likely have been found dead in a ditch and Mr. John “Frog” Ward would have continued to prey on the elderly in vulnerable and isolated rural communities. I’d argue that I don’t have a “primitive mind” and that well meaning laws don’t always deliver the intended outcome. We don’t live in Utopia and Gun control in all its forms has helped to deliver distopia on a local and global level.

      • DB4545

        Apologies that should read “Mr. Patrick Nally”

      • Edward Smyth

        Guns don’t kill people, people with evil in their heart kill people.

        • bonbon

          What does it take to Drone 500+ civilians? And then to weep at Newport? Most do not understand Nero, elected him again.

        • redriversix


          • One line mantras are conevenient truths for dull and ignorant minds. Sun readers and Star sophisticates just love them


            ‘All Brits are Bastards’.
            ‘All Blacks are the same’
            ‘All traveelers are the same’
            ‘All Scots are the same’ ….
            ‘Ireland is under threat from foreigners’

            People love a mantra because it stop them from having to think

            They like Wee Danny even better because he makes them forget to think at all

  25. Stiofan

    David is correct to note that “the killings were not extraordinary but in fact fairly commonplace in the US.” They are equally commonplace in the countries invaded and occupied by the USA. No mention is ever made of the hundreds, and thousands, and more, killed by the Americans in foreign lands. The brown skinned Pashtun children and the non-white children of Pakistan, and the non-Christian children in the Yemen, the children without names. The US and its impotent puppet leader wring their hands in wretched grief ant the death of a few, when the death of thousands is never noticed. Madeline Albright famously referred to the death (some say murder) of Five Hundred Thousand 500,000 Iraqi children. She assessed it worth the price. In that case the price of a US lie.

    David, as good Catholic, makes no reference to Karma. Of course the US creates its own reality, its own Karma and all the related shock, murder and trauma. The statistics speak for themselves. The US kills its own at a much slower rate than it kills others. I don’t care if they have guns at home. I prefer that they did not have guns abroad. Last time I checked Ireland let them carry firearms through the Shannon airport. We can’t lecture them on who they murder. And speaking for myself alone, I refuse to award the winner of Nobel Peace Prize any credibility at all. Killer in Chief. Just ask the little kids in Pakistan.

  26. george

    Civilized People don’t have to imitate the cruel aspects of nature, because as superior beings in the scale of evolution, we shouldn’t be prisoners of our basic instincts. If not everyone will be having children as rabbits do, without taking responsibility for them or its consequences, as some people still do. And every man in the Country, will behave towards the daughters of the next door neighbours, as the man in the X case, or as Larry Murphy did.
    I’m very happy for Mr. Nally, and I never condemned him for what he did, but I know of similar cases where people in difficulties without weapons were able to defend themselves. And in his case, he was a farmer in the countryside with a need for a gun, for other purposes than self defence.
    In the other hand, let me point to you, about a case I know. Two brothers were fighting in the kitchen. The older brother wanted something that the younger had bought, and they were wrestling about it. In the middle of the commotion the father arrives from work, and tried to put order, but he also started to argue with the two sons about their behaviour. In the midst of it all, he gets a hearth attack and dies? Then the younger brother gets a rifle from his father’s room, that he knew the father had loaded under the bed; he returns to the kitchen and shot the brother to death. The mother who was in her next door neighbour’s house herd the shots, and run to the house, where she found her husband and eldest son dead, and the younger son frozen as a statue, with the rifle in his hand, in the middle of the kitchen’s floor, . OK he could have taken a knife, or a saucepan, and have done the same. But he went for the only thing he knew for sure could kill, the riffle.
    Can you imagine how many disputes among neighbours will end up in a similar situation, if guns combined with alcohol and drugs some legal, will be readily available?

    I’m afraid that if we start to use the same ways of predators, and start to justify the wide use of firearms, from almost anyone in society, we are going down the slippery road of barbarism. We trust and train our police force to protect us, and we make them responsible for it. The American way, or the Pakistani way, or the Afghan way, regarding this issue it’s a totally crazy way. If smoking kills, guns do the same, and are continually glamorised through TV movies and videogames. Is simple a matter of what affects your body and your mind, having a reflection in your spirit. Or as Confucios said, human beings are born good, but ignorance makes them bad. Utopia for me, is what Martin Luther King made a reality, without a gun in his hand.

    • DB4545

      George I respect your viewpoint and the achievements and personal bravery of Martin Luther King and Mahatma Gandhi who advocated non-violent protest. I should’nt really help make your point for you but you might like this. I outlined my viewpoint regarding the dangers of gun control to a colleague who is a psychologist and who has to assess convicted criminals prior to release.He said “are you really suggesting free access to firearms to a population who voted Fianna Fail for the last twenty years”? George the truth is I’m not. The USA is not the model I’d follow. I respect their constitution and I think the second amendment balances the relationship between Government and the People to prevent tyranny. I think the NRA need to highlight personal responsibility along with rights. The former white apartheid Government in South Africa restricted the rights of the black population to have access to firearms. The current South African Government largely controlled by the ANC is trying to disarm the remaining white population. The reasons are identical. The people in power want to maintain power and control at any cost including genocide. Access to firearms using the Swiss model of a responsible armed citizenry prevents Government tyranny. It’s no accident that Switzerland is one of the safest and most affluent countries in the world. I’ve already made the point about the Nazis and the KKK and the “contracting of self defence” to police agencies presenting a danger to the personal safety of citizens. Predators on a global, national and individual level support laws which disarm their prey. These predators have no respect for laws. The road to tyranny is paved with good intentions.

  27. SMOKEY

    Oh,by the way, with a year on year DECLINE in homicide by guns, yes year on year DECLINE over the past 4 years, the 10 times more likely to be Killed with a gun figure is also very misleading.

    Also you used a 2008 statistic and not a more recent 2011 that showed less than 9000 homicides. Here are some more recent FBI statistics on this I have included for your enlightened readers


    And the murder figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 550 murders per year. In 2011 – the latest year for which detailed statistics are available – there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

    The figures show that California had the highest number of gun murders last year – 1,790, which is 68% of all murders that year and equivalent to 3.25 per 100,000 people in the state. Big as that figure is, it’s still down by 3% on the previous year. Other key findings include:

    - While gun crime is down in the vast majority of states, it is up in Indiana, Arkansas, North Carolina, Louisiana and several of the smaller states
    - If you look at the firearms murder rate per 100,000 people, District of Columbia comes out top – with 12 firearms murders per 100,000 men, women and children in the state. There were 77 firearms murders in DC in 2010, down 22% on 2009
    - DC is followed by Louisiana (10.16) and Mississippi (7.46)
    - DC is also top for firearms robberies per 100,000 people – with 242.56
    - If you look at aggravated assaults involving a firearm, Tennessee (137.58) and South Carolina (127.88) come above Arkansas (100.56)

  28. SMOKEY

    As you can see 3.2 per 100,000 is a a hell of a lot different than the 11 per 100,000 used in the article.
    Even that was skewed because the stats were pulled from 2 different years one for Ireland, 2009 and one for the US, 2008
    Maybe your researcher is a bit overwhelmed from the Holiday excitement, For that I excuse them.
    By the way I need a job, so if you need a researcher I work cheap!

  29. bonbon

    Operation Fast and Furious, a major gun-walking scandal around Obama’s Administration, has been breaking out all year. Almost nothing in the Irish press (afaik).

    Mexican drug cartels ( laundered by HSBC !!) were provided assault weapons by the FBI. Talk about guns! These guns were used in many school massacres in Mexico recently.

    That makes 3 reasons for impeachment – Drones, Al Qaeda Fact Sheet, Gun-walking.

    The “paradox of the american way” is only difficult for Tigers refusing to see what is going on.

  30. bonbon

    What kids see on TV – the murder of Osama and Obama playing basketball on the deck of the USS Carl Vinson where the body was dumped in the sea.

    The murder of Ghadafi while captive in a war Congress never sanctioned.

    Lawlessness from the top down, voted up. The Constitution trashed. Wall Street rewarded for contempt. And now the Syrian “opposition”, Al Qaeda, supported by Obama.

    • bonbon

      I wonder do they mention this :

      The World Federation of Mental Health (WFMH), whose first president, Brig. Gen. John Rawlings Rees, was the director of the Tavistock Institute, Britain’s premier psychological warfare center.

      • Big Pharma has half the country on medication. The link I posted above explains how the television media is designed to make us passive and docile and the president writes up his kill list every Tuesday.

        The NSA has ordered 1.4 BILLION rounds of high calibre ammo. Why?

        What would happen in Amerika if guns were abolished tomorrow?
        Why is Murdoch and his ilk calling for gun control?

        I don’t trust these guys one bit.

        With guns there will be more massacres and without guns the people are at risk from god knows what horrors these people have in mind

        There is no simple solution.


        David Duke on Zio Globalism (video)

        A Little Gun History (short article)

    • ‘Unhinged’ French on cocktail of pills, claims new book

      More than one in five people in France has taken one of the four families of ‘psychotropic’ drugs — antidepressants, tranquillisers, sleeping pills and antipsychotic drugs — two-thirds of them women.

      • A 49-year-old man who shot dead two neighbours. “The man was totally out of it as he was on four psychotropic drugs. He said he was in an altered state. This is a man who had no mental illness”

        David Duke explains that when he was young there was plenty of guns but no mass killings.

  31. bonbon

    I find the tone of the lead slightly British, shall we say, using extreme violence to soften up susceptible readers for Bernanke hyperinflation. Tavistock methods.

    This is what Obama is actually doing with Drones, basketball on the USS Carl Vinson, Libya, Syria. This is what 9/11 was all about and 9/11-2 Benghazi. Both of these are British-Saudi operations, and it turns out Obama is right in the middle of it.

    Having to resort to such measures shows firstly the way empire operates, secondly what it is committed to preventing, thirdly how far it is prepared to go.

    Bernanke is insane. It is time to take back policy from the FED before he causes the worst imaginable hyperinflation. The way to this is Restoring the American Credit System , a creative intervention, not hysterical grasping at straws, not herded like cattle in a stampede over some cliff.

    • Jolly good chap. So what?

      Most people have never heard of Travistock less remotely care. Do you have concrete proof that such an institution exists?

      ‘Proof’ comes in many forms and spoofs

      Maybe the real truth is even worse thwn you imagine

      Haw haw haw

      Come on HAL. Spill the beanz

      Spill them I say.

      Or should I say spill em mother fukka!


      • bonbon

        Start here Mass Psychological Warfare

        And as mentioned above Rawling Rees. The World Federation of Mental Health (WFMH) first president, Brig. Gen. John Rawlings Rees, was the director of the Tavistock Institute, Britain’s premier psychological warfare center.
        One of its projects was LSD. No wonder the field is all drug oriented.

  32. bonbon

    Col. David Grossman is the author of Stop Teaching Our Kids To Kill: A Call To Action Against TV, Movie & Video Game Violence, which he co-authored with Gloria DeGaetano, and On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. The following is his speech to the founding meeting of the Commission Against the New Violence, on May 20, 2000.

    Violent Video Games Are Mass-Murder Simulators

    Extract : — guns are part of the issue, but the two killers here in my hometown, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, at the age of 11 and 13, used an acetylene torch to try to break into a gun case. When that failed, they stole a car, drove across town, and used a crowbar to break into a law-enforcement officer’s gun safe. What I want you to realize is, that 15, 20 years ago, nobody would have had a gun safe, and today that’s the norm.

    The killer in Paducah, Kentucky broke into a locked cabinet in a locked garage in the neighbor’s house. I was a consultant in that case, and I tell you, that that boy went to an extraordinary measure to get the guns that he used in that case.

    Additionally, the killers in Littleton, Colorado had adults commit felonies to get the guns that they used in that situation. —

    Another excerpt : — The Effect of Drill

    Now, in Paducah, Kentucky, in Pearl, Mississippi, in Jonesboro, Arkansas, we believe the boys set out to kill just one person, usually a girlfriend, and then they kept on firing, and they gunned down every living creature in front of them until they ran out of targets, or were interrupted. Afterwards, the cops asked the kids: “Look, you killed the person you were mad at; why did you kill these other people? Some of them were your friends.” And the kids don’t know. But we know. Whatever is drilled in, is coming out the other end. —

    • bonbon

      Another great insight, missed by most, from Grossman :

      — I was on a panel moderated by Larry King. And Larry turned to me, and said, “Well, you know, Colonel, the Bible has lots of violence in it, too. Should we ban the Bible, when it comes to kids?” I said, “Larry, the difference is that the AMA [American Medical Association], has not determined that the Bible is responsible for at least half of all the murders in America.” I said, “Larry, we’re not talking about the written word. The written word can’t be processed until you’re eight years old. It goes in the eye, has to be decoded and processed in the logical center, and trickles down into the emotional center. The spoken word can’t be processed until around age four. It goes in the ear, is decoded and processed in the logical center, and it trickles down into the emotional center.”

      But violent visual images, can be processed at the age of 18 months! At the age of 18 months, the baby comprehends completely what’s on the television screen. The only thing is, that it isn’t until they’re six, or seven, or eight that they can understand that it’s not real. —

    • DB4545

      bonbon I feel you’ve gone some way to dispel the view that some Europeans hold regarding the USA and ease of access to firearms. When criminals want firearms they break into homes,gunshops/firearms dealers and military armouries.The don’t buy taxed and registered and therefore traceable firearms.You’ve made the point about the lengths people will go to on an individual level. When the war of independence was raging here the “old IRA” were raiding RIC barracks for firearms.When the “troubles” were raging in the north “loyalist” paramilitaries were raiding British Army barracks for the same reason. That’s why Switzerland operates the policy it does. Central storage of firearms slows down the ability of an army to react and allows an enemy to seize centrally stored firearms and other resources to wage war. Firearms held in private homes are much more difficult to steal than firearms held in armouries where security arrangements are known to many. If your neighbours need to be convinced on the second amendment(which I feel needs to address responsibilities as well as rights) refer them to the “Mr.Patrick Nally” case which I have described above. Mr. Nally who is a farmer living in an isolated area had been subjected to repeated intimidation by Mr. John “Frog” Ward a violent criminal with over 80 previous convictions. Mr. Nally used his legally held firearm to defend himself and Mr. Ward died. Mr. Nally was convicted of manslaughter but the case against him was dismissed on appeal. In Ireland you can normally only hold a licenced firearm for sporting,hunting or target shooting purposes. Unless you are very wealthy, a member of An Garda Siochana(Police),or extremely well-connnected you will not be licenced to hold a firearm for personal protection(self-defence). Naturally criminals don’t obey these laws and so law abiding citizens are left defenceless.

  33. Ravished By The Sheer Implausibility Of That Last Statement

    The less Americans the better

    • SMOKEY

      What nationality are you? Irish? Hmm?

    • DB4545

      What do you mean the less Americans the better? Do you have any idea what shape this State would be in without the assistance of America. We’re a small island off the north west coast of Europe. The goodwill that the USA has shown towards this State cannot be overstated. Without US inward investment this State would still be in the 1950′s. Without the safety valve of emigration and its impact on US demographics over the last 150 years this State would have the political influence of the Isle of Man. Without the USA we could have spent another two generations digging ourselves out of the mess that was Northern Ireland. The modern version of that mess began because the civil rights movement looked to the USA and it’s civil rights movement as a model for change. Then a lunatic fringe developed who actually believed that they could win a ground war against our neighbours. Think about it. Armalites against state of the art missile systems and jet fighters. Thankfully cool heads were at work somewhere. If our neighbours had really been pissed off an hours work would have wiped out our army,power stations, and what infrastructure we had and put us in the stone age. We’re not like Switzerland who can actually defend their neutrality. The influence of the USA and the work of Bill Clinton and others knocked heads together and made people realise that we are in fact neighbours with common interests. The world is gearing up for a war over resources like every other war. It’s going to be sub world war but it’s going to be very messy. You can thank who you want that this country is under the security umbrella of our neighbours and the USA. You might like to reflect on the facts above and reconsider your ill thought out comment.

      • The IRA went home with their tails between their legs defeated and castrated

        The young Guinness Commandos still sing at Tones gigs lamenting a cause that no longer exists except inside their own heads

        Rebels without a clue

      • SMOKEY

        I didnt have the energy to tell the guy he is an asshole so thanks for doing it so eloquently.
        Couldnt have said it better myself.

      • bonbon

        Eire respectfully declined the offer to join Nato, a very wise decision born from long experience with the British Empire. Right now Obama has put the USA back into that fold, and Obama’s drone killings, Russian provocation with Patriots, as well as the utter criminal Wall Street bailout are more reasons to wish the USA would return to its rightfull mission. I point out here repeatedly that as Tigers are sadly unaware of Irish and US history.

        Look at Bush and Obama’s neglect of New Orleans and NY after Katrina and Sandy to see why many are horrified at what has become of hte USA. Those that remember JFK are simply speechless.

        But a massive cultural war has casualties.

        So get on board with impeachment – send Obama to play basketball somewhere, pass Glass.Steagall, and start the Recovery I have detailed here.

  34. bonbon

    Is any Irish press outlet reporting this?

    In 2012 there have been at least 38 Obama-selected “clandestine” air-strikes in Yemen alone, more than any year since 2009, when Obama ordered his first drone air-strike there. A report by law schools at Stanford and New York University suggest that Obama’s drones have killed between 297 and 569 civilians throughout the world, although others report the deaths are many times higher.

    • The press are irrelevant. Don’t worry them.
      Just keep doing what you do.

    • wildata

      Safely ensconced in a make believe State,in which the second world war was a mere Emergency, we have avoided the nasty reality of self defence, either as individuals or collectively.
      Indeed the State can no longer defend Citizems against our own Criminal Class.
      Recently an entire Limerick family had to be got out of the Country for their own safety ?
      The State and its agents totally powerless to protect them, and in geeting them out accepted this.

      The “Triumvirate Club” of the Legal Profession, Politicians,and Church,have done it again.
      They simply do not do their jobs, or follow thier professed beliefs, despite being paid multiples of what other Real Countries pay for similar positions.
      Until we fix this appointing and wildly overpaying paying G**S**T*S to the highest offices of the land it will be no better.
      We have a bad history in this regard, and I do not see it changing any time soon.
      There is no fabric in this society, all the pillars are dreadfully and irrevocably flawed.
      Guns for the people might be a very good idea !

      • bonbon

        The memory of the Civil War has not gone away, it is a taboo subject, the cause of a lot of apparent problems right now. The country was rife with guns during the “troubles”. I remember a case of a normal car search by the Gardai discovering a boot load of assault rifles – an SAS team of all things, and likely quickly shoved under the carpet. And the trawler seized on the way to Wexford with anti-air missiles intended for the Dail? With this in mind consider the Gardai’s problem. That’s not even mentioning the huge drug cartel problem. Cuts to that service plays right into their hands.
        The crazy salaries are due to the Euro catastrophe simple as that. Which brings us back to economics!

        • We have to approach the New Year with confidence HAL. What would Oor Tam say now?

          There is no taboo subjects now. We are intellectually and spiritually naked and have nowt left to lose. It’s 2013 and we will turn the corner. Only problem is you have to work and do it all for yourself. We are all having to reinvent ourselves and strive to make it on our own

          One man and two man bands will do well next year as long as they have their shit together

          Yes. Every man and woman for themselves. It’s the NeoCon heaven. I have a few quality qualifications and other stuff under my belt thank god. My years spent studying during during the boom were well spent and will be my ticket to Lisbon and the future. I work hard

          Anyway who has the authority to declare any subject taboo or otherwise. Who do they think they are? I will decide what goes in and out of my mind. Not them and their bloody freemason infested think tanks

          Let’s get it all out in the open and cure our insecurities once and for all. Let’s talk about all our dirty little secrets and stop kidding that we are a new nation of enlightned ones because I can assure you from the horses mouth we are far from it

          This is not main stream and that is why we come here and spend time and effort opening hearts and minds. For all the bloody good it does. Hard work with no return. Just a few claps when we play a blinder and pelters when we talk crap. It is the anithesis of bs like facebuk

          The arsehole O’Connor made a meal out of forgetting the name of Savita Halappanavar on the blue rinse show. No one picked this up but then Ali is such a bitch behind that stupid glaikit unnatural smile that lasts so long you’d like to skelp it right on the mush with a mackerel. A smug and irritating bitch you’d walk a million miles to slap or avoid

          The intellect of a newt and a voice that drills into your brain with the persistence of a plague of termites. Yap yap bloody yap

          Most of them are professional head fucks. It is my life and mind and own business how I choose to live and think and I know I will never find answers on the Vinnie Broone show. It is for morons and idiots with limited imaginations and thick skulls

          Ayatolla Broone. He may not be a cloaked bearded cleric but he is a god. Sort of. Some even secretly think he is a sex symbol! Haw haw haw. Chuffin Nora!!

          Ahem I am sure it will be clear by now that our media is no better than RT or PressTV

          Enda and his boot boys can take a hike to catalionia. The homage paid to this government is false and sickening beyond compare. Sickening to the point that you could identify with Eurocrats who want to see the Irish starve

          Let’s use up the Irish!
          And the Irish were used royally

          Yet people subconsciously love and desire fascism. They flock to mass and kiss the Roman ring without a fellting thought to this pathetic and senseless obedience to a foreign state

          For 30 years I put this down to inherent mental illness but lately I have come to realise that the Irish are a species naturally predisposed to fascism. Fascists do the thinking and the blind follows the blind. Who is your daddy paddy?

          This is why I can’t stand to watch RTE or Vinnie Broone

          How else can you explain a hundred cars turning up for a saturday night service at a country parish?

          Are these people mentally ill, heartless or just plain dumb?

          It’s time to stop being scared and call it for how we see it even if a few jews and perverted clerics get upset. Fuck them. We control them. They don’t and should never control us!

          Personally I think these Zio headbangers need stripping down and put in their fucking places. They despise Ireland because we are a strong and proud Catholic country with a strong sense of identity

          This is the real reason why the Irish and Jews don’t get along

          They hate us because they know they could never conquer our spirit in a decade of Sundays.

          Afer the Amerikans they will come for us. You’ll see.

          Happy New Year

  35. bonbon

    For those adults really concerned about School Safety this is a must see.

    LT. COL. DAVE GROSSMAN, U.S. Army (Ret.) Director, Warrior Science Group; Member, American Board for Certification in Homeland Security; Member, American College of Forensic Examiners Institute. Author of numerous books and publications, speaker.

    The apparent flailing failure to understand and deal with this phenomenon is typically Tiger, but curable.

  36. bonbon

    “THE SPIRIT OF FERDINAND PECORA. It’s time for the Street to be scared — very scared.” In a Christmas Day article, Newsweek/Daily Beast commentator Michael Thomas champions deploying a new Pecora against Wall Street.
    “More than the fiscal cliff or a bump in the base rate, or any other of the thousand man-made shocks that flesh is heir to, the Street fears being awakened on Christmas Eve by a visiting spirit hung all about with law books and handcuffs, who with a baleful, fixed glare pronounces the dread words, `I am the spirit of Ferdinand Pecora — and this time I’m not fooling!’”

    Thomas suffers from the delusion, however, that the Obama he decries for serving “Wall Street’s interests and purposes more lucratively than any chief magistrate since the palmy days of Calvin Coolidge” might change policies.

  37. redriversix

    America as a Nation is Walking “the green mile” many problems on so many different levels , hard to know were to even begin…….

    But it is a downward spiral that will lead the U.S to a Nation of gated communities with private police and privileged residents.

    Land of the free..home of the Brave..? We witnessed the collapse of the we are witnessing the collapse of America……..but , beware , for she will not go quietly….

    • SMOKEY

      You’re wrong dude, just plain wrong. Not in your lifetime or even your grandchildren’s.
      It will be there in all its glory long after you are rotting in your grave.

      • redriversix

        Morning Smokey

        Hope your right , But I haven’t seen The America in “all its glory” you refer to in a long time.

        Reagan spoke about ” a shining City[s] on a hill” his ideology [or dream] never came to pass.

        It is a land of brokers,bankers,investors,Lobbyists & War Veterans…a land of broken dreams….a land were debt is “a good investment”

        The middle class are dying out…now a society is developing were either you have it or you don,t..

        Education falling apart….People with average 8th grade education fought World Wars , worked and built a booming economy in the late forties,fifties and in to the sixties,with a little help from the benefits of WW11 reaped by America.

        Now we have 20th graders who can do very little..where is the production or manufacturing..[ apart from the weapons industry]..?

        Reaganomics began the downward spiral that is coming to its conclusion today..Reagan slashed regulation..reduced taxes…cut federal social budgets across the board..but massively increased Military spending….started a arms race with the U.S.S.R which they could never win , thereby bankrupting Russia

        But the massive deficit he left was “carried over” each year until eventually …debt catches up..inspired by Bush Snr..Clinton…Bush Jnr and now the Obama administration.War is where the money is…have numerous administrations been trying to replicate the success of WW11..?

        When the U.S.S.R Collapsed,their was no one left to keep America in check..and America partied like a teenager with her parents away for the weekend…..they are paying for that party now……….

        Do you think that America has ever funded terrorism..?

        Has America ever been involved in Illegal Warfare..?

        Has America stripped the Rights of her people over the last 12 years..?

        Has America became less of what she was and more of what she fought against..AMERIKA…?

        Happy New Year Smokey


          • redriversix

            Hi Tony

            Hope your well today…glad to hear you had a nice Christmas.

            I suppose while mentioning Reagan earlier I should be reminded on how he dealt with unions,primarily the Air Traffic Controllers,by firing them all..! which was popular at the time,but ultimately led to the decay of the union movement and workers rights

            Looks like the Fiscal Cliff has had the safety rail removed today. Senators & Congressmen out walking better mind their step…!!


          • Tony Brogan

            I never had a better christmas
            I never had a better trip to anywhere as i did this Fall
            Met several bloggers. They are a fine bunch of bright caring people.
            My faith in humanity is restored.

            Happy New Year to All.
            Keep the faith

        • bonbon

          Let’s ask the right questions. This is all posted above.
          Obama must answer for supporting Al Qaeda now in Syria.

          Gun-walking stalks Obama, as well as the 550+ drone deaths of civilians.

          • redriversix

            “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”

            Al Qaeda is America’s weapon do with as it pleases..Obama will answer for nothing.

            Fear is a terrific weapon…replace “reds under the bed” with Islam and hey presto..! you have a “War on Terror” that will last indefinitely

            Nobody cares about drone deaths,nobody cares about collateral damage… or Yemen,Iraq,Afghanistan Syria… etc…

            just the opportunities that may arise from these coordinates on a map

            You have to toughen up BonBon as they might say in the Pentagon…”this is the price of doing business in the 21st Century”

            Happy New Year..hope you had a peaceful Christmas


          • bonbon

            Cynicism misses the point – have a look at this
            My Friend, My Enemy contrast.

            The support of Al Qaeda is haunting D.C.

        • bonbon

          Reagan was not a great economist, got some things wrong, but did one startling thing – he proposed in 1983 the SDI Strategic Defense Initiative to the USSR, an absolute game-changer, stroke of genius. It drove Sir Henry Kissinger crazy.

          Now Putin returns the favor that Andropov rejected (collapsing the USSR as a result), the SDE Strategic Defense of Earth.

          This is the way to outflank empire.

          • redriversix

            wasn’t their another leader after Andropov..? in fact I think the U.S.S.R had 3 leaders before Gorbachev in a very short period of time.

            As for Reagan’s “Star Wars” programme it was all but myth and the Soviet Union fell for it and spent their way to destruction,in fact the U.S.S.R was already dealing with Famine when Gorbachev came to of the first issues to deal with was to import masses of grain from the E.U & Sweden I think.

            Putin is a far better poker player than Obama,he may talk of SDE but he will not spend a Ruble on it……..

          • bonbon

            Andropov refused, could not handle the sudden radical change, died soon after. The collapse of the Soviet Union was then forecast to with 3 months. Without the game changer that was easy to see. SDI was blocked by Bush, Kissinger, Brzinski etc.
            Same today , without the game changers I have posted here, massive collapse is easy to see, not to outlive.
            Obama, Nero, has no concept like reagan had and Putin demonstrates. He is leading to a thermonuclear conflagration. Some see this now – plenty grounds for impeachment exist.

            Do not make Andropov’s mistake – at least he had the excuse of Marxism (a good one). What “excuse” to the transatlantic hipsters have?

          • redriversix

            To say that Al Qaeda is haunting D.C is to suggest they are a ghost from the past…unfortunately they are still around.

            What did Andropov refuse ? What was the radical change ? His successor was older than he was and was hardline K.G.B [Cannot remember his name] and died soon after “party selection”

            Reagan did not have a concept..his goal was the destruction of communism ,if a price was to be paid by the U.S in later years for this, it wouldn’t be “on his watch” so he never considered it.

            Obama’s controllers may want a “Cursed Earth” but they do not want to achieve it with Nuclear War..who would be left to do business with ?

            Their was no “sudden change” in Soviet/U.S relations , it was gradual unless you call the conference in Reykjavik sudden.

            In 83 & 85 we came very close to Nuclear relations were very bad up to and prior to this timeline.

            The biggest problem facing the U.S.S.R at this time was a “command & control” one

            A fear that officers would not launch their Nuclear weapons when ordered too.

            I do not believe anyone “blocked” was a political game , a poker game of bluff……and the U.S.S.R blinked……..

          • paddythepig

            Andropov successor was Chernenko.

          • bonbon

            The refusal of SDI collapsed the USSR, and is now collapsing the entire transatlantic region. The seeds were sown in the ’80′s. Sure it was not Reagan’s idea, but he made it administration policy. The collapse was forecast to within months, an excellent example of economics as it should be. Now we must take up Putin’s SDE offer, change the British rules of the game.

            You can call it poker to make it more sensible in your terms, the stakes are high. In a collapse there is extreme danger of nuclear adventurism, exactly as now.

            To see what haunted means look at the Fact Sheet now circulating in D.C.

      • StephenKenny

        The US is certainly in uncharted territory, with the most obvious risks coming from internal unrest and subsequent disintegration. Levels of wealth disparity are pretty much unprecedented, at pre-industrial levels, and their society is riven with conflicts: Gender is joining race as an endemic problem; the comparative lack of concern for the rapidly growing number of badly damaged military vets; the biggest per head prison population in the world creating an increasingly large criminal underclass; and so on.
        In terms of whose side the government is on, It costs about $7m to get elected to congress, which pays $150k per year. In terms of the legal system, a bank is let off after admitting effectively laundering all the worlds drug money for almost ten years, while an individual is locked up for five years for possession of a small amount of weed (the bank’s shareholders – pension funds – and customers had, effectively, to pay a fine).

        Over the past 40 years all the incentives have become completely misaligned. It will be interesting to watch.

        It’s a shame – just think of attitudes and achievements of Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo, and people like Jonas Salk.

        • redriversix

          +1 Stephen

          Who is Jonas Salk ?, forgive my ignorance..!!

          • redriversix

            Jonas Salk Bio – Vaccine for Polio – Famous Scientists …
            Jonas Salk and his famous polio vaccine are discussed including his time at New York University and medical research upon the influenza virus.

          • StephenKenny

            He discovered the polio vaccine. When asked about he patent, he said that there wasn’t one, and then famously “can you patent the sun?”.

            As a matter of interest, recent USPTO changes could be interpreted as a form of tax on foreign companies wishng to do business in the USA.

          • SMOKEY


            This is the type of thing that is going on in America that you know nothing about, along with many other awesome and groundbreaking initiatives and entrepreneurial ideas and inventions that will come to a store, school, hospital, building site, and so on and so forth, near you soon.
            If you have never lived there you dont have the knowledge to speak about her. Or the ability to make a cogent argument against her so I politely ask you, “do you really know what you are talking about when you defame America”?
            Or are you just RR6? I think maybe you are just……..wel RR6

        • redriversix

          Thank you paddythepig…+1

  38. Announcement

    Today is a ‘ FULL MOON ‘ .

    Think like a Tortoise and Go Slow …..and better again


    • redriversix

      Evening Smokey

      Please explain how I defamed America..?

      TED is very good,of course their are good things going on in a argument..this is irrelevant as plenty of good things go on around the World in Many different Countries,every hour of every day.

      To clarify,I grew up,like many Irish people with great respect & admiration for a home where their was a picture hanging of JFK & The Pope.

      No..I never lived in America , been their about 15 times traveling , learning and yes , I went to Disneyland..!..never been on the west coast though.

      I think my arguments were fairly “cogent”..but I would say that wouldn’t I ?

      I study American Military History and Foreign Policy..I hope I am wrong about America for obvious reasons but criticizing her is NOT defaming her.

      I will always enjoy a good debate with you..and your right …I am “just RR6 or Barry” or just another blogger..but I am someone to somebody ..just like you are Smokey..just like you are…….

      P.S the picture of the pope has long been taken down..!


  39. Tony Brogan

    i could not let this summary pass by.a brilliant speech calling for prudence in finance and exposing the fallacy of endless printing as in QE to infinity.

    Listen to the video

    • Canadian Prudence

      So many web sites proclaim to Americans to open CAD$ bank accounts in Canada . What is your opinion Tony ?

      • Tony Brogan

        I have no savings in canadian institutional bank accounts.
        I pass money through a credit union and use their services for checking account and electronic banking.

        The reason Canadian bank accounts are promoted is the assumption that the canadian currency will be stronger than the US as the US dollar collapses.
        I suspect that the Canadian central Bank will issue enough currency to keep the canadian currency at a round par with the US. 35-40% of out economy trads with the US. So I think it a false premise to have a Canadian account
        Better to buy gold and silver and keep it away from the banking system. It has gone from 450CAD- 1650/ounce over the last 11 years. Silver from $6 -30 in the same time.

    • Realist

      Excellent one Tony.

      The lesson of Canada can be summarized as follows: the size of a country’s problems is directly proportional to the size of its government.

  40. Napoleon

    It is my thinking that the prudent mindset of the Canadians owes its success to Napoleon.More precisely ‘Code Napoleon’ ie Code Civil or as Bon Bon Bonaparte ( above ) says the readings of Joseph Maistre .

    • Tony Brogan

      Canada has a history of alternating French Canadian Prime Ministers with Anglophone Prime Ministers .

      Napoleonic code operates in Quebec but English Common Law elsewhere.

      Canadians tend to not like spendthrift government.
      Maybe it was the Scottish Influence of the early settlers need to be credited for that.

      Quebec is the biggest economic drain on the federal purse having now received in excess of 100 Billion dollars from the rest of the country more than it has contributed.

    • bonbon

      The reference to deMaistre must be urgently checked. This is the synarchist method, hopefully NOT followed in Canada… Snyarchism

      A review of this will shock most, warn all. The “beastman” project that produced Napoleon, is still the recipe.,.

  41. Deco

    We are recreating Ireland as another America. With the suburban sprawl, and the couch potato.

    Ireland has a gun problem also.

    Not that long ago, it was the preferred way of settling an argument down the road in an corner of the island.

    Increasingly it is the preferred way of settling arguments in Limerick, and West Dublin.

    The gardai are not dealing with the situation effectively. The Irish gun laws are broken consistently.

    There is a problem in the inner selfish sense of righteousness and confidence of many Americans. It demands that one does not accept the humility of one’s condition of existence. And it turns dangerous when combined with high availaibility of guns.

    But that is for Americans to fix.

    I worry about Ireland. I worry that this country will turn into a hell hole, with gardai terrified of criminals, and the people locking everything down. And the shocking thing is that this is exactly where Ireland is headed. And how do we know this ? If we look at the legal system. We can see that the legal professional class are the masters of Ireland’s criminal justice system, and control it so as to achive profit/turnover maximization.

    For those in power, the legal class, there is every incentive to increase the level of crime in Irish society. And there is nothing to stop them. No political party or movement would dare stand up to them.

    Therefore Ireland will become a gun ridden hell hole. Restrictive gun laws will not fix this. They are already openly being flouted.

  42. redriversix

    Hey Deco

    In 1994 I refused entry to my pub to a “Family” who wished to use it as a base to sell drugs.

    For this…my Car was wrecked and a guy walked in one evening produced a handgun,placed it against my forehead and pulled the trigger… was empty..obviously !

    I still didn’t let them in…!
    [not brave,just very stupid]

    During my career I dealt with a lot of violence and people from the underworld , not what one expects when just trying to earn a living.

    Gardai then were excellent overall in supporting operators like me trying to run “a clean house” back then….times have changed drastically..and obviously not in a good way.

    Spent 9 hours in Town the other day,not one Garda did I see in that whole time,first time ever..! I saw no Garda presence on O Connell Street or Henry Street.

    Shape of things to come..? The City was lawless years ago and what we see today is a direct result of that deterioration being allowed to continue at the behest of several Justice Ministers and countless budget cuts.

    The present cuts imposed on Gardai will lead to more criminality..without question.

    Talking to a chap the other day,he informed his station got a “new squad car”….it has 275,000 KMS on it….would you chase villains in that Car,risking your life & your partners..?

    neither would I…….

    Have a great day , Deco

    • Deco

      I can easily believe your story.

      In the larger East coast US cities, a job in the police is a serious responsibilty. Police officers take their responsibility seriously, and are usually extremely dedicated to their job. Strangely enough a lot of these cops are Irish American. Now, why can Irish cops in NYC and Phil-PA be first rate, when Irish cops in Dublin are laid back ?

      I think that we do not have the same sense of urgency in our gardai. And I reckon that this is based on the legal system. Simply put our legal system is ineffective at making sure that crime does not pay. And there is a reason for that. To keep it rolling over nicely for the legal profession.

      • DB4545

        Deco and redriversix I think it’s a combination of the factors you’ve outlined.Let me explain.A friend who travels extensively on business returned home about three years ago to find his home burgled. I met him for a few pints and we had a chat about it. He said you’ve seen the logos on the side of police cars in America “to protect and serve”, we should put “Jasus it could have been worse” on the side of our Garda cars. He had a point but it also reveals a nice aspect to the Gardai. The Gardai are approachable, generally easygoing and we don’t fear them the way people in some other countries fear their police forces. They retain some of the aspects mentioned by their first commissioner that “they will succeed not by force of arms but by their moral authority as servants of the people”. I think that served the people well when we were a relatively isolated homogeneous people up to the 1970′s. Ireland’s version of “Dixon of Dock Green”. But that’s gone forever and we need a policing service fit for purpose. In the NYPD you get to the top of the pay scale after 5.5 years and are fully equipped and resourced and provided with a firearm. In the Gardai a “yellow pack” will start on approx 200euro and wait approx 11 years to get a decent wage and be expected to patrol the most dangerous parts of Dublin,Limerick or Cork with a baton and CS gas for protection. In the NYPD s/he will drive a purpose built police “cruiser”. In the Gardai s/he’ll being chasing criminals using family saloons with Garda logos. How do you motivate unarmed police to risk their life against heavily armed criminals for 200euro a week. How do you motivate Gardai when they see people receive 14 year sentences for killing their colleagues. Would you take the risk or wait for armed assistance by which time the armed criminals are long gone? I don’t want a militarised police service. I’ve spoken to a number of Gardai who carry firearms. There is a tradition of low visibility with firearms i.e. weapons are not on display and i think this is a good reflection of our civic traditions and culture. Why not properly train and arm all Gardai(PSNI Officers are fully trained in six months) and insist that firearms(pistols) are carried in a concealed manner i.e. within a ballistic vest or inner pocket? That way criminals won’t know what their facing rather than Gardai. In conclusion pay people decent money,train them properly,provide them with the means to properly protect themselves and watch the motivation return.

        • redriversix

          Morning DB4545

          cannot argue with any of your post,Agree totally


          • whatamess

            ..”Why not properly train and arm all Gardai”

            arm the gardai?! i know many guys who are now cops and i wouldnt arm them with anything more than what they have.No way!

            sure train them better,provide them with the necessary tools to do their job as well as they can and pay them well ( for what is a dangerous job )

            but arm them all with guns…that’d be bad news!

            let the 10% of gardai that are detective level carry guns fine ,but not all the cops on the beat…

            the mere suggestion of gardai carrying arms frightens the hell out of me ..

          • DB4545

            Whatamess this debate has moved a long way from economics. There are some people who can’t be trusted with water pistols. All organisations including the Gardai have them. Weed them out. The Garda Ombudsmans office has put the fear of god into rogue Gardai. And no harm as people trusted with police powers must be subject to oversight and independent review.That’s democracy. But why should Gardai be left without the means to protect themselves because of the actions of a few idiots? That’s why I said Gardai require proper training. Our culture and traditions have an aversion to public display of firearms.I also think public display of firearms makes a police service less approachable and therefore less effective. That’s why I suggested uniformed Gardai should conceal carry firearms. Gardai are recruited from the same demographics of the population as PSNI Officers who have gained a good reputation for disciplined use of firearms so what’s the problem? David I’m sure at this point you’re sorry you made any reference to guns!

        • whatamess

          As a bouncer ten years ago DB4545,my observations of the Gardai dealing with even semi-serious ‘hassle’ ( no weapons involved )is that they are under-equipped in their training even on a one2one basis.A Garda’s inability to ‘handle’ an intimidating situation from within themselves and not get stressed, is in itself a v.big ask and requires great composure from within and i respect the gardai who deal with these situations day after day.There are people/gardai who have this composure naturally ,but most simply don’t and even experienced cops have shared with me that alot of times they don’t handle situations at all well,coz that “shit yourself moment” provokes them to action.Extensive training in martial arts made compulsory is maybe an idea?Maybe when a member of the gardai has acquired a high level of skill&confidence within themselves to deal with a problematic situation with the benefit of martial arts training, i would feel better to possibly arm them in greater numbers.Gardai in a compromising situation may, in my opinion,resort to pulling a gun quicker when the skills ( and even aerobic fitness ) to deal with it otherwise are not there to call on.

          I’m a fan of the work that Gardai do and it can be very dangerous and as i said before,pay them well,provide them with ‘cruisers’ if deemed necessary etc but only guns for those who get EXTENSIVE training across many disciplines.I’m happy to arm the detectives who i presume have alot of further training and meet the criteria to carry a gun ( concealed or visible )

          “Gardai are recruited from the same demographics of the population as PSNI Officers who have gained a good reputation for disciplined use of firearms so what’s the problem” …the problem DB4545 is that at least 5 guys that i know who are Gardai on the beat right now simply do not have the necessary skill sets and would not deal well with the responsibility of carrying a life taking weapon and it would worry me graetly giving them anything more than they have,for their sakes and for the public …

          we will just have to agree to disagree DB4545 …

          • Realist

            “.. simply do not have the necessary skill sets and would not deal well with the responsibility of carrying a life taking weapon”

            This is the standard problem with any public service where there is no any competition nor incentive for them to improve.
            While having secured salary and nobody to compete with, why would they bother and improve too much.
            They can always use statistics to show how they are improving year over year, similarly how economists showing how economy improving by using GDP, GNP and other nonsensical stats.

  43. bonbon

    British Parliament Wants Glass-Steagall and Not the Government Ringfencing (EIRNS)

    The pro-Glass-Steagall faction in Britain keeps fighting. An Ipsos Mori poll seen by the {Financial Times} shows that over six in ten MPs, across all parties, “would support a full-scale separation in British banking,modelled on the Glass-Steagall reforms implemented in the 1930s in the U.S.” The pro-Glass Steagall faction is even stronger in the Conservative Party, with 66% of the Tories polled saying they agreed, than in the Labour Party, with 60% in favor.
    The {Financial Times} notes that the poll’s finding “piles pressure on the Chancellor [of the Exchequer, Osborne] to go further than ministers’ proposed `ringfence’ around retail banking.” The {Times} has been leading a campaign in favor of Glass-Steagall, berating the Vickers and the Liikanen ringfencing proposals, and adds today that “the findings will encourage Liberal Democrat ministers, who have been campaigning within the coalition to strengthen Mr.Osborne’s banking reforms.”
    Ben Page, chief executive of the pollster, said, “MPs are completely divided over a whole range of issues — including regulation of business generally, but are united in their view that retail and investment banking should be separated, with over 6 in 10 of all parties’ MPs in favor.”

    Time for people to wake up to reality.

    • bonbon

      This is Phase I – Righting the Wrongs Restoring the American Credit System. Now we need forward thinking, free of the chains of synthetic debt, a commitment to major reconstruction, which the Triple Curve shows graphically. But it is a major breakthrough, transatlantically speaking.

    • StephenKenny

      “Time to wake up to reality”

      Nonsense. It takes an educated, open minded, and inquisitive people to have an interest in reality. What people want is fantasy.

      This story contains a very fair description of the modern ideal. EM Forster’s “the machine stops”.

      • bonbon

        The polls cited above clearly show the people want full Glass Steagall, not a phony, as the French call it, Vol-Vic, Volcker-Vickers trick.

        Volvic is fantasy. Gleas-Steagall is reality.

        Real banking separation, no “arrangement”, will work. Everyone knows it, some flee from it in shrill panic.

        FT reports an Ipsos Mori poll with 6 of 10 MP’s across all parties for full Glass-Steagall separation.

        FT has come out repeatedly since July 04 2012 for full Glass-Steagall, a major breakthrough that cannot be emphasized enough.

    • Realist

      You must be joking !!!!!!

      Austerity is a stupid and wrong name for overspending governments.

      Germany will still have 17 billion more in debt in 2013 (I am sure it will be away more once this full dodgy economy is revealed).
      Similar is for Ireland and others.

      • bonbon

        No one is joking, brutality is the order of the day. Bestial politics. Reducing the weakest to vegetation to be mowed repeatedly.

        At the Ranch of the Crooked E, culling is on!

        • Realist

          Why not call it then just coercion, stealing.
          No need to use wrong words.
          We do not want socialism anymore.
          Let’s privatise it all and allow people to consume services as they wish for.
          I know what I want, similarly as any other human being.
          We do not need the government to tell us what to do with our own wealth.

  44. cooldude

    Interesting discussion on gun control and valid points from both sides. The one thing that caught my eye in this article was how David tries to insinuate that anyone who supports the right to bear arms automatically is anti Bernanke and the fact the fact that he “has undertaken to print as much money as necessary to prevent US unemployment from rising.” This statement interests me because it implies a couple of things.

    Firstly it implies that the reason Bernanke is spending $85 billion every month on toxic mortgage backed garbage has something to do with unemployment. It doesn’t. The only reason he spends this money on toxic garbage every month is to keep the insolvent criminal banking system afloat. The shareholders of the Fed are these same too big to fail banks and they don’t give two shits about the unemployed the only thing they care about is making easy money on the back of the tax payer so they can pay themselves their exorbitant bonuses. If Bernanke really wanted to get the US economy moving why not give each US citizen $3,322 at the start of this year instead of paying the banks $85 billion every month for their toxic sludge which is worth less than half that on the open market. This would cost the US the same amount and could be used by each citizen to reduce debt or spend it any way they want. This would stimulate the economy a lot more than just giving it to corrupt insolvent banks who are simply just going to use it for some more gambling in their 100-1 leveraged derivative casino which now totals over $700 trillion. The reason he doesn’t is because every decision he makes is made purely for the banking sector to the detriment of all other sectors of society.

    The second point is does excess money printing really do anything to lower unemployment and is it actually even good for an economy?. Well the evidence of both the 1920′s excessive expanse of the money supply and the one we are are still experimenting with is that it acts more like an addictive drug than a real cure and each bout of printing brings less and less effect and creates lots of unwelcome side effects which only prolong the recession. This era of competitive currency debasement will inevitably lead to a crisis in confidence in the world’s reserve currency and will probably end up in a bout of extreme inflation if history rhymes.

    An interesting article was ruined by these comparisons between guns and the Fed’s inept, failed economic policies.

    • bonbon

      The criticism is flawed by the Austerity implicit in monetarism.

      Time to drop the LSE dogma, look at the Triple Curve.

      Both Keynes and Hayek-Mises are LSE gatekeepers.

      • redriversix

        In English please BonBon…?!!

        • bonbon

          In Brutish then, the London School of Economics (LSE) monetarist obsession, whether Keynes or Austerian, both lead to collapse. The Triple Curve shows why.

          That physical economic collapse function, show that only the American Credit System can work.

          Have a look at the 4 Phases for the best, and fully detailed solution. Every nation can apply these methods, and in cooperation.

          • Realist

            Triple Curve school is still not available on wikipedia :)
            This is something new to all of us. We are going to need a couple of years to tweak our eyes to such splendid graphs.

    • Realist

      Nicely said cooldude.

      Let’s just add David’s mistakes around individualism and liberty at the end.

      This sentence is just showing that David does not understand neither economy nor liberty:

      “This is why the pursuit of extreme individualism whether it is in the arena of personal security or in the area of financial security and economics can lead to everyone being worse off.”

      David is teaching us for so long, it is not good to save money as economy will cease, it is bad to control your own destiny with or without gun.
      Governments killed more people through stupid wars and in prisons that it will be ever possible by sole individual guns.

      For me individualism will always be #1.

      As Ron Paul said it:
      The ultimate solution is not in the hands of the government.
      The solution falls on each and every individual, with guidance from family, friends, and community.
      The #1 responsibility for each of us is to change ourselves with hope that others will follow. This is of greater importance than working on changing the government; that is secondary to promoting a virtuous society. If we can achieve this, then the government will change.

      • cooldude

        Hi Realist,

        Good comment and couldn’t agree more. At the end of the day it always comes down to personal responsibility in all areas of life.

  45. Deco

    Can you imagine if all the casual sociopaths that you knew in school, the sort of lads that you’d generally give a wide berth, could buy guns with the same ease as they buy Mars bars or laptops? Imagine if all the small time psychopathic drug dealers, not the big ones, but the two-bit lads starting out in their ascent of the criminal ladder, had assault rifles in the back of their pimped Honda Civics? Can you imagine how terrifying that Ireland on a Friday night would be?

    Now consider that large sections of this imaginary Irish population thought that the best way to combat this gun epidemic was to provide more guns to more people so that we could all be ready for a gunfight at the drop of a Stetson?

    Limerick ? Jobstown ? Corduff ? Finglas ?

  46. Alan42

    I have lived in the Bay Area of California for about a year now . Nice people but you can keep it . Get me back to Australia . America has really desperate poverty , high crime and a large number of mentally ill people wondering the streets .

    A couple of weeks ago I was totally anti gun until a guy arrived on my porch being chased by people with guns . He banged on the door and asked me to call the cops . I left him outside and called 911 and the operator told me to barricade myself in until the cops arrived . She even stayed on the line with me until they came . I could hear shots outside and I was scared senseless . It took 15 minutes until the cops arrived and during that time I reallised. that as I did not have a gun I no way of defending myself if suddenly the door was broken down .
    I have no idea what happened to the guy or who was firing the shots as by the time the cops arrived they were gone .

    Now I am actually considering getting a gun for home protection until I can get out of this crazy country .

    • redriversix

      sounds like you had a rough time Alan42 and/or a lucky escape.

      My worst experience of poverty was traveling around Tennessee and Alabama in 2006

      Never saw anything like it,up to that I had thought the worst was Egypt when I went there.

      Unfortunately I would say that poverty has gotten far worse since I was in the Southern United States as it could hardly have gotten better in the last 6/7 years.


  47. redriversix Just sayin……

    “10 good reasons to go.. 1000 small ones to stay”

  48. Tony Brogan

    The Bright Future of Gold: The Final Solution of the 2008 Monetary Crisis

    December 28, 2012, at 7:48 pm
    by Jim Sinclair in the category General Editorial | Print This Post | Email This Post

    Posted at

    This analysis says that there is no solution to the monetary crisis as exercised by the US and QE to infinity.

    As I have repeatedly reported the possession of the world’s wealth is moving to the orient.
    It is suggested here that also the gold is moving back to the orient.
    The worlds financial problems will relax when the price of gold is allowed to rise high enough to balance the books of most nations and offset the accumulated debt.
    gold will not be fixed to any value of standard but itself will be the standard by which all currencies are judged.
    worth a read to gain understanding.

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