September 24, 2012

Old lessons still relevant?

Posted in People · 185 comments ·

The Haitian taxi driver spoke Creole, the wonderful language of former French colonies. He was chatting to his wife. We were bouncing – as New York cabs do – towards the Lower East Side’s Tenement Museum. He was one of the latest line of immigrants to come to America and he was dropping me, the distant relation of a previous wave of immigrants, to a museum which gives us a sense of how many of our ancestors lived when they first went to the States.

The Tenement Museum is a building that housed mainly Irish, Jewish and Italian families – the three old tribes of New York – cheek by jowl in the sprawling metropolis from about 1860 to 1930.

One of the tours details the experience of the Moore family, Irish immigrants in the 1860s who were among the first families to move into this overcrowded tenement.

Threading together census and parish records, we get a sense of the extraordinarily harsh life these people had, and yet it was obviously better than living in Ireland.

One of the Moore’s children – they had eight – died here from malnutrition, which was most likely caused by what was termed “swill milk”. Swill milk was a major cause of infant mortality in New York at the time, and this killer was immortalised in a popular Irish song which warned mothers about a substance that, ‘Like poison, ’tis sure to kill/As a thousand tongues can tell.’
Swill milk was a killer masquerading as a saviour. As the population of New York skyrocketed in the second half of the 19th century, before refrigeration, mothers couldn’t get their hands on fresh milk for their children. Breast-feeding was not encouraged, and many of the poor mothers might not have been strong enough to breastfeed anyway. The milk had to come from farms outside the city and, by the time it got to Manhattan, it had curdled in the heat.

Owners of the city’s many breweries came up with a scam, which allowed them to get rid of the waste from breweries and get the poor of New York to pay for it. Swill is the product of brewing. Huge amounts of corn and rye are cooked into a mash and then distilled. The swill is what is left over.

Unscrupulous brewers knew they could feed this to cows and, thus, swill herds became common. These were herds of cows kept in atrocious conditions which were fed only swill. As cows are supposed to eat grass, they became sick quickly but they were milked to the end. The resulting milk from swill herds was blueish and watery.

To deceive the mothers of New York, milk sellers added starch, chalks, flour and plaster to the swill milk. The result was contaminated milk full of bacteria, which often killed the children who drank it. By 1860, five million gallons of swill milk was produced a year and the rate of infant mortality tripled.

Mothers thought they were buying real milk, but they were in fact poisoning their own children. What was being sold as a panacea was in fact a killer. Although swill milk looked like the real thing, it wasn’t; it was debased.

Looking at the various reactions to the mass printing of money announced by central banks all around the world in the past two weeks, the story of swill milk seemed appropriate – particularly in Europe, where printing money now is going hand in hand with fiscal contractions.

The central banks are printing money, and therefore debasing it. When the value of paper money is adulterated in such fashion, many people believe that it will only lead to inflation. I am not one of these, but I could well be wrong.

If it leads to hyperinflation – not now, but in the coming years – it could well destroy the economic growth it was supposed to foster. The risk of the monetary expansion being the financial equivalent of swill milk is increased dramatically if there is no commensurate increase in productivity.

Apart from the nasty side of humanity, the Tenement Museum also reveals the huge increases in productivity experienced by the rush of invention in the US in the latter half of the 1800s and into the first few years of the 1900s.

It was this productivity, this surge in output per head, that drove up living standards in America. The surge in living standards drove huge improvements in public health standards, among which was the outlawing of swill milk.

The innovations of the time included pasteurisation, electricity and, ultimately, management and production techniques such as Henry Ford’s moving assembly line. Some argue – like entrepreneur Andy Kessler in the Wall Street Journal last week – that these innovations created the American middle-class.

The reason Ford was able to pay his workers $5 a day – doubling their salary from 1910 to 1914 – was, as Kessler said, because “the year before, Ford revolutionised manufacturing with the moving assembly line, slashing automobile build times to just 90 minutes from 14 hours. That’s productivity. It allowed Ford to reduce the price over time of his Model T to $290 from $950. Demand took off because it was far cheaper than the cars made by his 88 competitors.”

Rising wages and living standards were the by-products of the innovation and demand, not the cause.

Here is the rub. The huge increases in living standards come from productivity, not from printing money. Printing money can be used to shock the system into a different type of short-term growth path, but it can only be maintained by innovation because only innovation increases output per head. This in turn facilitates increases in both wages and profits, and the increased wages encourage further demand.

Printing money without innovation will only lead to the illusion of a healthy economy. Like swill milk, the economy might look healthier and satisfy a short-term need, but if the currency is debased without a concomitant increase in productivity, the paper money will lose its value, lead to inflation and make the economy sicker.

This is the big risk now with all this printing of money because, the more money you print, the more the essence or value of paper money is debased. We might rejoice right now at the miraculous fall in interest rates, engineered by the central banks in the same way as the poor Irish immigrant mothers rejoiced at the appearance of what seemed like good, cheap, fresh milk on the streets of New York.

But we know now that the milk killed their children. Will all this money, without productivity, kill the economy?

  1. redriversix

    Morning David

    Surely the printing of Money without foundation can ONLY lead to inflation in the short term and indeed overall ? .Thanks for the article

  2. Grey Fox

    David, it looks like printing money is the future in the medium term so, I have to ask, instead of printing this money and passing it to Central Banks who in turn pass it to ordinary banks in what ever way, low interest loans etc… why can this money not be made available to ordinary folk at the the same low interest for the sole purpose of repaying bank debt, it would end up with the Bank’s also by doing this. Ordinary folk do not have disposable income anymore and less again by the day with additional taxes arriving at regular intervals, those who do have some income remaining at the end of the month are afraid to spend! What am I missing here! if Joe Soap is not spending because he/she is up to their necks in debt, and has no confidence in the future, the economy will never pick up, business will never pick up and so no new jobs will be created. I know that Debt Fogiveness is a contentious issue but so was the Tax Amnesty’s of the 70′s and 80′s, people who paid there taxes (PAYE) where pissed of that business people and self employed could avail of this amnesty but it served its purpose!
    People who will say that debt forgiveness, is wrong are invariably not the target of debt forgiveness or simply begrudgers, they do not realise that their benefit will surface from the resulting improvements in the general economy! Am I wrong? Is it not debt that is killing us (literally), the debt must be eradicated equally across the board! Good Articla as usual, keep up the good work, when and where are you having one of your public meetings next.

    • redriversix

      Afternoon Grey fox

      good post.

      Banks got bailed out and continue to do so…..people are far more important than faceless Corporations who are continuously being found to run their business in a questionable manner.

      A debt problem has never been solved by creating more debt,never has , never will.

      The only solution , I see , as I said before is a complete debt forgiveness across the board.

      Even those that have not suffered yet.will in time through increased prices or reduced wages or increased taxation.

      So I give no apologies for debt forgiveness and continue to shout it from the highest point I can.

      As for moral hazard,where do we start ? immoral banking ? immoral government ? immoral policies towards the sick,the elderly,the unemployed,the homeless…….?

      Morals start at home and because of a financial crisis created by Banking,we must put our selves and our families first and if that is immoral I am guilty as charged

      As many of you know I foolishly paid back over 4 million euro to the Banks to the detriment of my family so I speak from A practical point of view , not theory.

      It was a mistake to do this as I and many of us have learned only citizens are supposed to do the right thing , ….. not Banks.

      If some of you find this post annoying as “you” are paying your way and were/are not affected by this crisis , I wish you and yours well and I suggest you try and put some money away for a rainy day as this crisis , like a cancer , will creep over many sections of society either directly or indirectly.

      I hope you never suffer ,but please do not judge those that have or are.

      Kind regards


      • gizzy

        RR6 the irony is that it was the bailing out of depositors through saving the Banks they had their money in that put the country on the hook not any debt forgiveness programme. Yet now debt forgiveness in theory attracts more emotive reaction that the actual deposit guarantee. Hope you are well.

      • whatamess

        “I hope you never suffer ,but please do not judge those that have or are”

        VERY WELL SAID !

        yea people will find the debt forgiveness “annoying” but tough s**t i say….We’re beyond all that kinda standing on ceremony stuff…People are enduring the MOST terrible terrible terrible agonies out here due to debt..The absence of humanity in arriving at resolutions to help the ordinary citizen is a disgrace?!!!!

        It was mentioned here before by a few contributors that if one objects to the bank bailout ,then one must also object to personal bailouts on principal.Words like “rational” ,”moral hazards”,”fair play” are tossed about ad nauseam ,but without huge debt forgiveness across the board,we TOGETHER will not emerge from this quagmire…the modus operandi of achieving this is as yet unknown…I suggested recently,in a MAD moment, to give every man woman and child a one off punt nua or euro 100k ‘gift’—those in debt use this windfall to pay their debts,those who were prudent in the past,put their 100k under the mattress…i know i know ..aside from it costing half a trillion,the equity concerns of how it would be done,this would fuel another ‘bubble’ and of course WHO pays for it ??! But at this stage,i’m just worn out with struggle so ,perhaps recklessly,i say “pile it on !” Debt is at level now that is just incomprehensible,so what’s another 10 billion for the bonfire ha!!!!!!…set up some f**kin fund for 10bil that Joe and Jane Bloggs can access provided they meet certain criteria….Freeze it for 20 years at some negligible interest rate and revisit then….I dunno ….BUT SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!
        All our ‘principles’ will need to be a whole lot more flexible in the future…Debt forgiveness won’t be equitable across the board of course and people who maybe’deserve’ to feel the pain for their myopic greed might side step that ‘deserved’ pain&punishment,but if we just got f**kin past that,maybe WE can all reset the clock and begin again ??

        Whatever helps you sleep at night and you can’justify’it HOWEVER you want, but you will swallow that bitter pill..huge debt forgiveness must happen i feel!!

        Thanks for posting RR6

        • Grey Fox

          There is debt forgiveness for the failed developers, and not only that but a recent (july) report to the Public Accounts Commitee from Nama said that 168 developers are sharing 15.4 million in saleries so, we not only save them but we pay them handsomely for failing so spectacularly, and its our government who are doing this! what chance have we dealing with banks when they act in this manner, these are failed businessmen who should simply be allowed to fail like any other business, this makes room for the good successful businessmen without distorting the market!

          • bonbon

            The “market” is a rigged swamp, remember the Libor scandal with Barkleys last month. The is no market to protect.
            The TBTF’s are not Too big to Go to Jail, as Barofsky and Hoenig say.
            Once the trickle starts there will be a cascade of banksters on the way to jail. They know it.

            Good business thrives on good infrastructure and credit for the Public Good. von Hayek’s idol Mandeville would have us believe Public Good can only come from private vice, usury, rigging, sorry, transactions. That is perverted enough to earn the highest praise from the LSE’s Hayek. The exact quote I will provide in case of doubt.

      • Tony Brogan

        As for moral hazard,where do we start ? immoral banking ? immoral government ? immoral policies towards the sick,the elderly,the unemployed,the homeless…….?

        Corruption is endemic
        Two wrongs do not make a right.

        Not said in judgement but to illustrate the huge problem in society to resolve.

    • molly

      You are right we are being killed.
      The government is running this country into the ground,I always go back to what this government is interested in and besides themselves and there croneys is Exports.
      What is very surprising is the people of this country are not out on the streets.
      What we are going to be left with is this country is a country that what ever you do don’t get sick and is toexpansive and with to high a rate of crime,where the haves verses the have nots.
      What I want to know who voted for this,remember cj telling us to tighten our belts what’s the difference FG/LAB are telling us the same crap,don’t do as we do do as we say.

      • dk1210

        Molly, I’m an exiled Paddy. Was recently home, and found it very depressing, mainly because people are not protesting and are almost passively accepting their lot a “shur what can we do?” mentality. What will it take for people t take to the streets? Every man and his dog knows whats going on is wrong and needs to be stopped but still nothing happens. Anyone that thinks FF or FF or Labour or whoever is gonna make any decisions that will benefit the country rather than their own short term goals is pathetically deluded.
        Sad to say but we look like a nation of complete bullshitters and all we do is talk.

    • Tony Brogan

      The logical extention of giving people money is that all should hve sufficient for their means whether they work or not.
      TThis isuance of extra money is inflationary and in the above scenario will soon be worth less and less until it means nothing to anyone and becomes worthless.
      unfortuneately there are many examples of worthless money in past history and they are always paper script produced ad nauseum.
      This can not and does not happen woth commodity money which is why people inevitably return to gold and silver as money.
      when the current system collapses and it will , gold and silver will be left standing as the only real money. Nothing else.
      People need to be given theopportunity to save in silver coin as money or civilization will collapse. It is that simple.
      you are correct. It is the debt based system fostered by the monied interests behind the central banks and the use of fractional reserve banking that will destroy us all.

  3. DMcW:Here is the rub. The huge increases in living standards come from productivity, not from printing money.

    1. More than 80% of the world’s population lives in countries where the income differentials are widening. – Source:2007 Human Development Report (HDR), United Nations Development Program, November 27, 2007, p.25.

    2 Nearly a billion people entered the 21st century unable to read a book or sign their names. – Source: The State of the World’s Children, 1999, UNICEF

    3, In 2005, the wealthiest 20% of the world accounted for 76.6% of total private consumption. The poorest fifth just 1.5%: The poorest 10% accounted for just 0.5% and the wealthiest 10% accounted for 59% of all the consumption. – Source: World Bank Development Indicators 2008

    4. The GDP of the 41 Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (>0,5 billion people people) is less than the wealth of the world’s 7 richest people combined. – Source: World bank Key Develop ent Data & Statistics 03/2008, World Bank’s list of Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (41) 03/2008

    I could go on…

    Please adjust accordingly. LOL


  4. redriversix

    Today’s word


  5. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    I enjoyed the article because it continues the recent trend of humanising economics in real world terms. I agree with your observation that for the foreseeable future we won’t have inflation.

    Can I respectfully suggest that even with an increase in productivity we still Wont get a rise in living standards. Know why? The sociopaths (I know you are thinking here we go again) in charge of modern businesses are following Milton friedmans apocalyptic creed. ‘maximise profits at all cost’. Unlike Henry ford who passed on some of the benefits of increased productivity in higher wages through doubling the daily wage thereby giving his workers the purchasing power to buy the cars today’s physcos in charge will continue to keep wages as low as possible to make their bonuses bigger.

    Their bigger CEOs salaries are then recycled into the hedge fund lottery rather than the same money being spent in the local economy and we know how mr corzine and his buddies make Thierry money from pursuing wealth destruction agendas don’t we?

    • Tony Brogan

      Hello Michael
      With repect we have inflation as well as deflation.Look at all commodities going up in price. Food is up 10-15% pa and energy is up. I know people whose inputs keep rising but they cant raise prices because of lack of economic activity.
      It is stagflation and the precursor to the coming hyperinflationary depression. Currencies will have no value. The survivers will be those with hard assets.
      land, gold and or silver.
      governmments may try to seize them and if they do you will know you are living in and autocratic dictatorship as a slave.

      • bonbon

        There is a much better device to really help people understand the apparent “paradox” of inflation-deflation – The Triple Curve

        These 3 are linked, not just the 2 monetary and financial ones. The “deflation” is there as the real physical collapse of the productive economy right from under us.

        There is also the hint of the way to act. It is not just “passive descriptive”, but a door opener for action.

        • Tony Brogan

          I find it curious that the last time I posited the inflation/deflation scenario that you ridiculed it.
          Now you offer an explanation; what changed your mind.

  6. molly

    Government control gives rise to fraud, suppression of Truth, intensification of the black market and artificial scarcity. Above all, it unmans the people and deprives them of initiative, it undoes the teaching of self-help…I look upon an increase in the power of the State with the greatest fear because, although while apparently doing good by minimizing exploitation, it does the greatest harm to mankind by destroying individuality which lies at the heart of all progress…Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest….We find the general work of mankind is being carried on from day to day be the mass of people acting as if by instinct….If they were instinctively violent the world would end in no time…It is when the mass mind is unnaturally influenced by wicked men that the mass of mankind commit violence. But they forget it as they commit it because they return to their peaceful nature immediately the evil influence of the directing mind has been removed….A government that is evil has no room for good men and women except in its prisons.

    • bonbon

      Ghandi was referring to the British Empire, and the Raj, the local empire that the British East Indie Company completely absorbed with 25,000 soldiers and lorded over 500 million. The Raj was the key to conquest, and the Caste system it lived off.

      Are FG behaving like the Raj, setting up caste’s that many here target? Do we want to be “new citizens” of a EU caste system? Even today your name or dialect can pin you to a caste.

      • StephenKenny

        Well, sort of – Gandhi was against all centralised governmental systems, including the British Empire, Imperialism generally, and the Indian National Congress after independence.
        It seems that he favoured strongly local administrations, and to my recollection, was generally called an anarchist – more like Noam Chomsky.

        • bonbon

          What the British labelled him tells us more about them. The Raj was the real problem and the Caste system still exists. The recent failure of the electricity grid shows the weakness of “local administrations”. National planning, which some administrations did show must tackle rural poverty when 700 million citizens require electricity, drinking water transport, production.

          China has a different approach. Now the EU, not being anything except a banking union, has a perverse conception of central planning, imperial in effect. It needs a Raj in each satrapy who can set off one caste against another.
          Lady Ashton etc, seem to have pulled a page from the glorious days of the never setting sun.

          • StephenKenny

            So you’re suggesting that centralised government must be used, using the same arguments used by every political/imperial activist I’ve ever met, and excusing the 100R failure rate so far.

            Let’s face it, Gandhi was right – power corrupts, be it in banks or governments – and we need to move towards a more local model.

            Anything else will result in ever greater excesses, that will make the last 20 years look like an open, free, and balanced wonderland.

          • bonbon

            Well if one believes in the Second Law of Thermodynamics, a complete fraud, one sees a failure for the entire universe, a rather circular argument. 99% of all biospheric species went extinct, one could say a huge failure for life as we know it.

            The only thing that must fail is an self induced entropic system, devoid of creative action. Any civilization that induces this has signed its death warrant. That is a choice. Pol Pot was a choice, not of course for the victims of the killing fields.
            Imperial central looting used to denigrate national commitment to progress, is well, simply imperial, entropic, leading to local, low-population, after all their main agenda anyway.

        • Tony Brogan

          I am with you on this Stephen
          And your comments below

    • coldblow

      In his “India – A Wounded Civilization” Naipaul criticizes the new state’s Gandhi fetish with museums dedicated to exaggerated ideas about the simple life, a perverse celebration of Indian backwardness. All the while the rulers were sitting comfortably and the masses had no hope. This reminds me a bit of the Irish elite’s Irish War of Independence fetish.

      • bonbon

        Well, both India and Ireland threw out the British Empire after the USA won at Yorktown.

        Yet the Empire has regained foothold in the USA and is now one and only one global empire.

        Same policies, same methods, same viceroys, Obama for example.

        Now that is entirely bankrupt, and finished one way or another.

  7. molly

    IT was against a plain blue screen that then Taoiseach Charles Haughey leaned forward to deliver his 10-minute ‘State of the Nation’ television address to the people.

    As he lowered himself down to face the RTE camera on January 9, 1980, the country was in an economic morass.

    Job creation was well off target, the economic growth rate only a third of that forecast, more than a million workdays had been lost in 1979 through major industrial disputes and the highest trade deficit in the history of the State at IR£760m had been recorded.

    It was after a tense weekend ensconced behind closed doors with his cabinet at Barretstown Castle, Co Kildare, that he emerged to make the fifth State of the Nation address. It was a 10-minute speech that was later to become infamous.

    “I wish to talk to you this evening about the state of the nation’s affairs and the picture I have to paint is not, unfortunately, a very cheerful one.


    “The figures which are just now becoming available to us show one thing very clearly. As a community, we are living away beyond our means,” he began in solemn tones as he painted a bleak economic picture.

    His main message was for industrial peace.

    He called on every citizen to help eliminate what he described as the humiliating and destructive chain of strikes, disputes and stoppages.

    He detailed the enormous amounts of money being borrowed, which with income from taxes and other sources, was falling around IR£520m short of the running costs of the State.

    Current and capital borrowing stood at over IR£1bn a year and the trade deficit was IR£760m.

    Haughey made it abundantly clear that the country was living at too high a standard — he said that the nation was living beyond its means.

    It was this phrase that remained in the minds of the people.

    Decades later, it is the most oft-quoted part of his lengthy speech, gaining added significance as it emerged he was advocating belt-tightening and heralding a hairshirt Budget as he continued to live like a king, enjoying fine dining and favouring the Parisian-tailored Charvet shirts.

    The following day the Irish Independent reported that both opposition parties attacked the speech for what it left out rather than what it contained.

    Then opposition Fine Gael leader Garrett FitzGerald said the economic difficulties Mr Haughey had highlighted were the direct responsibility of the government — after he had taken over from Jack Lynch as Taoiseach.

    Labour claimed that the primary purpose of the broadcast was to convey the impression that the Taoiseach bore no responsibility for the economic condition.

    Many within the Fianna Fail party had taken enormous encouragement from the television address.

    It was only in the following years that the full political ramifications of Mr Haughey’s infamous speech were to go down in folklore.

    - Louise Hogan

    Irish Independent

  8. wills

    Cracking article!

    Quick comment; the paper currency of the swill variety – the QE stuff since 2008 is poisoning the outsiders economy.

    The insiders economy is steering clear of the swill and stocking up on real wealth for pennies on the dollar.

  9. wills

    Bon bon,

    A request please do not spam comment my post, thank you.


  10. coldblow

    I think this old link from Michael Hudson gives another perspective on productivity:

    He places the surge in US growth at that time in a wider context. Also, with well-paid skilled indsutrial workers you can still succeed against low wage imports (he uses Ford as an example).

    He has argued elsewhere that the massive industrial take off in the US came when they rejected free trade. Free trade is fine if you have an industrial lead. To this day US agriculture is highly protected.

    Anyway, whatever about the developed world, how will higher productivity be brought about in Ireland? Years ago on this site David and other discussed possible ways to develop the economy but it seems so hard to get anything tangible.

    “Rising wages and living standards were the by-products of the innovation and demand, not the cause.”

    Is that really true I wonder. What kind of innovation can we come up with here? Perhaps a new model for call centres? Does anyone remember those Late Lates from the 80s where they’d do big item about new commercial ideas? The best they could come up with was an innovative new way to hold plastic bags when you came out of the supermarket, some plastic thing costing a few pence. Or can we draw on our rich culture of back yard workshops to come up with some new invention? Or our massive funds (billions?) over the year wasted (I mean invested) in uni. science? If you look at tv or film, books too, there seems to be a same-old leaden quality to it all. RTE’s most successful progamme seems to be Reeling in the Years, for which someone at Montrose should be court martialled. How about the heads over at Aosdána?

    For Ford’s sake! (Brave New World allusion there.)

    By the way, Bill Bryson’s Made in America really captures the exuberance of those years. There was so much going on it had to be a lot more than incremental productivity increases, something more fundamental at work. Can David shine any light on that.

    I agree of course that monetary solutions are at best emergency stop gaps.

    • coldblow

      Actually Hudson doesn’t mention Ford in that paper. I must have confused it with another of his articles. (Or even mixed up the papers with David’s article…)

      This bit caught my eye in re-reading it last night:

      “Instead of asking what conditions might lead wages and profits to equalize in the world economy, economics could gain greater respectability as a discipline by asking why the world’s economies are polarizing rather than converging… Such countries are not so much “less developed” as mal-developed. Latin American and African agriculture is blocked by inequitable land tenure patterns, rendering these continents dependent on the “industrial” economies for their basic food needs, and hence subject to their coercive diplomacy.”

      That could have been written word for word, but with the addition of the words “and Ireland” of course, by Crotty, except that his term was “undeveloping” rather than “mal-developed”. I doubt if Hudson read Crotty and they seem to have arrived at (at least some) similar conclusions independently.,

  11. Photos of a well to do Glasgow tenement from 1892 preserved and open to the public. This was way up market compared to the Gorbals which housed lots of Irish and Jews with Italians making up the numbers.

  12. Yes this was a cracking article David. Forget the money printing for a minute and consider the minds of the bastards who saw fit to pollute the milk with chalk and other nasties

    It is the same today only worse. Everything we use and consume is tainted in some way and even the air we breathe is being tampered with

    There is god knows what in our food and the water is polluted with a chemical that is a by product of aluminium production

    I could go on and on but wont. Despite the hell hole they are creating I am determined to be a happy person while recognising that this world has turned into a crap hole dominated by evil, greed and stupidity

  13. molly

    With the property market on its knees and its seams dearer to rent now than buy a house and with the banks not giving mortgages ,how long will it be before the renters ( a lot of them) will return to live back with there perents .
    This is just one section of the backward way things are being done in this country.
    This government needs to stop shying away from the important things that are affecting the very people who voted for them in the first place.

  14. dwalsh

    The problem is not the printing of money. The problem is where the money is going. It is going to financial speculation. If it were going to production in the public or private sectors we would see a recovery. This is basic stuff. It’s not rocket science.

    Financial specualtion is not real GDP.

    Derivatives are swill.

    The people managing the global depression know this. They know their actions will not stimulate growth nor stop the depression.

    So what are their real intentions?

    • molly

      While I would agree ,why can’t we stand on our own to feet .
      This country our country is being run by people who don’t make decisions of there own back ,but yet they can see the decisions unfolding right In front of them and it beggars believe .
      We struggle along and they do not struggle,remember what fine gale and labour said befor the elections that’ Cowans government where not listing to the Irish people.
      How can we go straight back to square one,the only thing I can come up with is the TDs in the dail where the same old dead wood ,with no fresh wood and I say wood because they are as thick as wood.
      The small amount of the so called new faces are made tow the party line and the ones that are prepared to stand up and be counted are few and far Between.
      When the government has a large majority I think it’s bad for this country and I wait to be proven wrong.

      • dwalsh

        I think all our politicians are captive to a system which determines what they can and cannot do. Like in America, it makes very little difference which lot is in so-called power; they basically implement the same agenda; which is almost wholly determined by power centres outside Ireland.

        This is the reality of globalisation. The trade treaties being developed in secret are the next level in the delivery and implementation of global governance. They will supercede national laws.

        We are witnessing the twilight of the era of the nation state.

        • bonbon

          We are witnessing the end of an oligarchical tradition going back millenia, totally and utterly bankrupt. No bailout can save it, ever. It is finished one way or the other. It knows this much. And senses in a reptilian way what will replace it, so lashes out, in a saurian way.

          All that is left than is the nation-state which made its arrival, falteringly, unsteady up to now. That is what will work as the colossus falls in the sand. Without mustering this we will be sand. One can stand aside and “witness”, fine. I am not so sure if anyone will have that luxury – we are in this.

          • molly

            The haves versus the have nots this is the Ireland the government wants .
            The haves are in the protected bubble ,how many people would lie to be in the bubble,how many would do anything to be in the bubble.
            We all know where the Celtic tiger took us ,is it any wonder certain people ended up wanting more ,it’s like drink to an alcoholic more was never enough.
            Power and money at who’s expense ,this is not the Ireland most people want to live in and change is not comming any time soon .
            Unless we make a stand,why are we as a country so depended on outside sources.
            Surly we can say enough and start rebuilding a fair system for all out people.

    • bonbon

      Blight, as I point out below, to let “natural causes” take their course.

      So watch the movement and production of food right now, not to be mesmerized by money. Population reduction, culling is the intention, on a vast scale.
      The productive economy that increases the relative potential population density is being destroyed. They will claim then as Dr. Schellnhuber and Prince Philip do, the “natural course” to 1-2 billion will then take place.

      It is not even hidden.

      When a national economy issues credit for progress, Hamilton’s National Banking method, we get an upsurge in the relative potential population density, so this method is public enemy number 1 for the genocidalists.

      • dwalsh

        You may be right. Although many dismiss the environmental issue, the elites do not. It may well be they have decided to collapse production and population to counter environmental degradation.

        • bonbon

          Environmentalism, originating in Prince Philip’s and Prince Bernhard of Holland’s WWF, is the genocidalist movement. It is based on animal ecology, a frontal attack on relative potential population density and anything that increased this – nation states committed to progress and the productive powers of labor. The “elites” indeed ar “concerned” about population : they fully intend to commit a crime on a scale unimagined by Hitler with a Big Lie even Goering would blush at.

          There is no way to hold onto environmentalism and refute genocide.

          And all “green” projects to so-called protect the environment are turning out to be disastrous – witness the bio-fuel fiasco.

          Now some may be genuinely worried about pollution, untreated waste, drinking water, clean energy. All the proposed plans must be looked from a human economic point of view not animal ecology. Greening the deserts is the true environmental approach, re-routing rivers, all these being human activity in the biosphere. The Green Revolution of new grains, such as vitally rice, and I do not mean Monsanto’s perversion of this, is something no animal ecology could do.

          • Philip

            The joke is that humans actually are a very very very small part of the animal kingdom in terms of weight and energy use and dissipation of energy.

            Insects alone outweigh all mammalian life on Ireland and UK by about 12 to 1.

            Humans are dirty bastards and need to clean up their act and the worst of it all is that it’s the 1 bn or so who are probably making the biggest mess, not the 6 or so billion who are trying to have a life. So even if they “cull”, fck all will be achieved.

            It not technology we need, it is “cop on” and stop being such slobs.

          • bonbon

            Stop trying to be bacteria, there are enough of them anyway. Stop trying to be chimps, monkeying around. We are completely different than all that biospheric activity where 99% of all species went extinct. The very fact we know this puts us on totally different ground – we are the first potentially immortal species. That means a huge future. So much for the Club of Rome monkeying with “limits”. threats such as what caused 5 mass-extinctions before can be recognized in advance.

            Mass, weight of living matter, mattered in the biosphere before one of us discovered the principle fire. Nothing was ever the same again – an idea, something the mind only can understand, now is dominant. The biosphere is now ours, and needs help greening the deserts. I think it is a fair deal to repay a biospheric debt with NAWAPA XXI, Aral refill, Chad re-fill, and more. We bring water and at the same time modify weather, in the process moving to a planetary scale of action, in time so fast compared to the eons of biosphereric changes. We could green the Great AAmerican Desert in about 30 years – those river canyons took up to 20 ice-ages to form, millions of y4ears. There are slobs in power, yet our species is moving in spite of them.

          • Philip

            The only reason we are here is because of bacteria and viruses. I do not subscribe to the notion of humanity being the top of a food chain for anything else including any intellectual form of development except for …idiocy and possibly stamina. I do not look down on bacteria or chimps or anything else for that matter. I do however despise the arrogance and ignorance of superiority cults who claim ownership of all they view. This is not the whine of a green eyed environmentalist. This is the cry of experience of a man who has had some success patching together the aftermath of cockups caused by the very nonsense espoused by these cults.

            The Larouche mantra is a very one dimensional view of man’s raison d’etre. i.e. conquer and persist no matter what. The notions of mind and intellect are based on fear rather than understanding. As we enter the 21st Century, I think the more rational among us are starting to get a glimpse of exactly how complicated and complex this little planet of ours is. It is far from being a dumb rock to be conquered.

            There point of my comment earlier was to say that I believe if we ever figure out how the rest of nature does it, we can mimic and have zillions of us easily supported. My key point is that we seem very very inefficient with what we have and the the tools -economic , financial , tech etc need a major rework.

          • dwalsh

            Irrespective of the agendas and propagandas of all players the fact remains (as Vernadsky pointed out) human activity has reached geological scale; we are altering the biosphere in many ways; most dramtically in terms of the new compounds and poisons we are pumping into the soils and rivers and seas.

            You are so wrong about environmentalism. It does not require genocide. It requires intelligent and creative understanding and management of ecology…..not the crazy sledge hammer approach of NAWAPA.

    • coldblow

      I think it’s cock-up rather than conspiracy. Not that they wouldn’t necessarily attempt conspiracy if they could handle it. But they are certainly capable of grubby strokes behind the scenes – our lot anyway.

      On the subject of conspiracies when Gore Vidal died recently the BBC could find little more to say about him than mention his wit and repartee and shake their heads at him falling for conspiracy theories (he believed the 11/9 attacks were a conspiracy). That was shabby of them. Try for example his article about his attempt to write a short history documentary for the Disney-owned (I think) History Channel. They didn’t like his references to American “empire”. Entitled – “Mickey Mouse: Historian”.

      In another piece he recalled US intervention (backing a coup)in Guatemala in the 50s t protect the interests of a large US food company. He wrote of his disbelief at the name of a certain Senator or Congressman being linked with these shady dealings. Didn’t he know him well and wasn’t he an old family friend.

      I tend to believe that rather than deliberately doing wrong our leaders are more likely to lie to themselves about what they are doing.

      • dwalsh

        Well one thing is clear….the official explanation of 9/11 cannot be true. Whether that is a conspiracy or a cock-up is up to each to decide. I choose to think it is a cover-up at the very least.

        Of course the fact that it was precisely the kind of event the neo-cons were hoping for; and was used as a pretext to launch multiple wars they had been planning for years; well….cock-up?

    • Tony Brogan

      Hi Dwalsh
      There is the problem of monetary inflation but in addition nobody, or at least very few, has the ability to make additional payments on the borrowings of this extra cash in order to get it in to circulation.
      Stymied by the debt trap!!

      • dwalsh

        Hi Tony
        Paying interest on a national debt, if the nation itself is the debtor and creditor is not a problem.

        Debt as an interest problem is created by the private control of money creation and distribution for private profits.

        • Tony Brogan

          Owing money within the family to a family member can break the family if the money borrowed can not be paid back. The loan may not have been spent within the family.

          Debt is the major problem faced as the central banks and the commercial banks issue all currency as a loan. The action is inflationary. Add the compounding interest and there is a compounded problem. We agree here.

          Japan is a nation borrowing from itsef and the interest rates fall lower and lower. They do not seem to be any better off than the rest of us although they still have a strong economy even though in recession (depression)

  15. Philip

    “Rising wages and living standards were the by-products of the innovation and demand, not the cause” – Not sure if that is entirely correct. I can list a myriad of innovations whose by-product was precisely the opposite. I am not even sure if innovation is the absolute key as you seem to put it. Even Swill was an innovation.

    The rise in living standards was caused by many things – typically over the centuries it has been the rise of the crafts, the specialists, the professionals – as it was their creating of dependencies which disturbed the landlord/ upper class/ aristocracy/ elite of the day that in turn has led to many social tensions to revolutions as the elite and “contented by Status Quo” tried to keep things as they were. Uncontrollable change will always be resisted. Controlled change will always be accepted – particularly if you are lucky or idiot enough to believe you are in control.

    Comparison of Swill and Money Printing demonstrates the short-term thinking of those who possess the status quo. That was always the way. Uncontrolled change is coming upon all of us – even the elites. Money printing will be followed by other containment control strategies. Any innovations sought will be to control…not to free up and let things grow.

    There is no conspiracy, no big central plan – but you can see how a few in the right position could pull something off in a effort to maintain what is now a rapidly deteriorating situation. And the thing is, those cushioned would not be inclined to stop them – and that my friends is why the Unions, The politicians etc will not be lifting a finger anytime soon.

    • molly

      Excellent 100 percent agree government need the to honour the crow park and keep them on there side without them the government would sink.
      They need to keep the export led company’s on side to.
      But are the majority not being made to suffer for the few?

      • Philip

        You are in a tuk tuk riding thro the streets of Delhi and it stops at the lights and the beggars swarm around you…uncomfortable eh? That’s why the enclosed darken window limo is so preferred. We want to be detached, we want to remain comfortable, we do not want to acknowledge the other’s pain. It’s so simple it is incredible people do not understand it.

  16. cooldude

    Here is an article which explores how living standards have in fact fallen since this era of massive currency creation began. The last chart is very instructive into who actually gains from this currency debasement especially the top category. This money creation will not create any economic progress but it will promote reckless financial speculation by the insolvent banks which is it’s main aim.

    • bonbon

      I looked at that links graphics. Not bad, but as usual like an amputee, with one leg and a crutch, where physical economics should be.

      To see what’s missing have a look at this 2009 Triple Curve and the inflection point where monetary aggregates hypergeometric rates overtake financial aggregate rates. Most importantly look at the physical economic collapse function, what makes this a Triple Curve. These 3 functions are now linked, and show what must be done to stop and reverse that collapse. We must separate the Financial aggregates’ rate of acceleration from the monetary hyperinflation, first. Then organize programs to rebuild the economy. Glass-Steagall does this.

      • bonbon

        Here is a brief explanation and a nice Triple Curve graphic :

        • cooldude

          Very interesting article. The western world has gone into Weimar mode and is confusing currency creation with economic progress. I fully agree but I don’t think GS will stop the rot. I wish it would but if history is to be our guide this will lead to a currency crisis after which we will hopefully return to a sounder monetary system which won’t be as easy to debase. This is what has always happened in history and the Chinese are very aware of this fact. They have had eight unsuccessful attempts at an unbacked paper money system and each and every one of them ended with the problems we are currently experiencing. That is why they are exchanging their US dollars for gold and other hard assets as quickly as possible because they know this dollar reserve currency system is in it’s final act.

        • bonbon

          Well I hope I showed that the amputated, and I mean without anaesthetics, physical economy is a glaring vacuum in most of the financial graphs. If you can get the feel how these 3 actions mover around one another, it is not a static, rather motion, one can see how to move to another motion, how an intervention will work. It is no use looking for “experience, as we never had either this insight before, nor this emergency. The full interacting Triple Curve shows it is not a monetary problem – that is only 1 emphasized motion. There are 3, and the social effect of acting on it. This is really how to define monetarism – a narrow focus on one aspect, loosing the entire motion, and notion.

          • Tony Brogan

            It was not very hard for me to work out that since 1970 the standard of living is reduced by 60%.

            I simply compared what I could buy in 1970 in goods and services, for an hour of my labour.
            In the same job today my labour would buy 40% of what it did in 1970.
            Also I bought a house in 1972 based on a single wage of a labourer. Today it takes over two wages to buy the same house not withstanding the drop in interest rates.

  17. bonbon

    It just shows the Irish were treated like animals, those that survived. What about the survivors of the Famine arriving in NY? Some of those ending up there later were civil war refugees only later given amnesty.
    As said it was still better than living under the yoke, Empire. Queen Victoria’s “Glorious” 1848 visit to Ireland, documented by Charles Kingsley with a remark

    “I am daunted by the human chimpanzees I saw along that 100 miles of horrible country. I don’t believe they are our fault. I believe that there are not only many more of them than of old, but that they are happier, better and more comfortably fed and lodged under our rule than they ever were. But to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not feel it so much.”

    When the Famine was “over,” the British officials directly in charge of “Irish famine relief,” particularly acting Treasury Minister Sir Charles Trevelyan, congratulated themselves and were decorated as Queen Victoria made her gala 1848 visit to Ireland. As 1847 ended, Trevelyan wrote: “It is my opinion that too much has been done for the people. Under such treatment the people have grown worse instead of better, and we must now try what independent exertion, and the operation of natural causes, can do…. I shall rest after two years of such continuous hard work in public service, as I have never had in my life.”

    Then, having vacationed in France, he added: “[The] problem of Irish overpopulation being altogether beyond the power of man, the cure had been supplied by the direct stroke of an all-wise Providence.”

    That was the alternative to swill. Today the term “PIGS” was coined in London, no surprise. The Troika are really doing such public service, totally overworked. That is empire, still today with its population reduction drive. Are they waiting for the stroke of Providence with Obama, their man, at the trigger?

    It looks more like the money printing is spreading the potato blight deliberately and letting “natural causes” take over.

    • coldblow

      Good quotes. Engels had similarly uncomplimentary remarks about the Irish (and I think you yourself may have referred to them here before).

      John Waters wrote somewhere that around the time of the anniversary of the Famine he would receive invitations to appear on tv or radio to ‘discuss’ it. What was there to discuss, he asked, either it happened or it didn’t.

      An interesting thing about the Famine is how it was largely blocked out of folk memory. I remember Eoghan Harris in a tv ‘discussion’ back in the laste 80s and he spoke of how the strong farming class had done well out of it all (he was a socialist firebrand in those days).

      Early this year I stopped buying the Observer after getting it faithfully for more than 30 years. It doesn’t seem to have anything to say.

  18. gizzy

    Just watched a documentary on Hayek and the growing influence he had since the nineties. All very free market until they did not let the Banks go bust and set up new ones.

    Also listened to Wilbur Ross on the radio on Sunday morning. The American investor is even in favour of debt forgivenes. Pity the interviewer questioned him like he was his senile grandad. Would have like to have heard some real answers to some real questions.

    • bonbon

      See here a New Yorker fraud on what Wilbur Ross did to pension funds and the “reasoning”. This is a Rothschild Inc. veteran and vulture capitalist :

      Now look at Wilbur Ross’ “demographic” argument : that individual firms’ pension and health-benefit promises could never be kept, because of changing demographics of their workforce; and that these changes (drastic shrinkage of active industrial workforces) are the result simply of technological progress. Globalization and outsourcing are never mentioned, nor are shrinking investments in public infrastructure or new industrial capacity in the era of globalization.

    • bonbon

      Here is an interview with von Hayek in 1983 in his study under a giant portrait of Sir Winston Churchill.

      “I’d like to see a crash before I die” :

      Von Hayek left his native Austria in the late 1920s for London, where he became a professor at the ultra-Fabian London School of Economics , where he remained until 1950. The fonner Austrian artillery officer then taught at the University of Chicago for more than a decade. In 1945, he had been one of the principal initiators of the Mont Pelerin Society, an organization which served as the “economic” think tank for Archduke Otto von Hapsburg’s and Count Coudenhove- Kalergi’s Pan- European Union, the central monarchist institution of the old continent.

      von Hayek is admired by many of the most stubborn EU technocrats today.

    • redriversix

      Morning Gizzy

      I listened to that interview on Sunday morning.I thought the interviewer felt he was out of his depth.

      I felt that Mr Ross was given a lot of talk time with out interruption regarding his “P.R” Spin on how well Ireland is doing overall.

      I understand his large investment in Bank of Ireland and well done to him……..but I also understand that he has the ear of Government and can call on them at a moments notice and his investment would colour his opinion ‘s greatly.

      The present Governments economic policy would suit Mr Ross be cause of his obvious investment here.

      I speculate that his very successful Company would benefit greatly from the Governments blindly paying bondholders , either directly or indirectly.

      A stark contrast between the 1% and the rest of the World.


  19. bonbon

    We have come a long way. Besides famine and war, we now know there are serious threats from out there – near earth rocks.

    Putin put the Strategic Defense of the Earth, SDE, a Strategic Defense Initiative, SDI, for the 21st Century on the table recently. Here is a conference on this

    This is what we must focus on, and not be blindsided.

    Currently, mankind lives on only one planet. We are all subject to similar threats: threats that do not distinguish between nations, religions, political parties or social classes. Irregular solar activity, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, floods, asteroid and comet impacts – these events don’t contemplate national boundaries before they strike. So why should we, when we are defending ourselves from them?

    • StephenKenny

      Why should we think about national boundaries when considering natural disasters?

      If the effects could be expected to occur within your country’s boundaries, then consideration must be given to that. If they are not, then consideration should be given as a member of the family of nations.

      As societies, we have proven that we are completely incapable of managing our general affairs at any scale beyond the local, anything bigger than that is guaranteed to result in corruption and criminal activity on a scale it would be hard to imagine.

      National scale activities, where necessary, should be dealt with on an individual basis.

      • Philip

        In fact we are incapable of forming any grouping beyond 200 people without time wasting bureaucracy. So you have to hand it to the Catholic Church for it’s abilities to form a transnational organization and keeping it relatively stable for 2 millenia.

      • bonbon

        Strange reaction. We are no perfectly capable of blowing up any country over the horizon. Obama is placing ABM’s in Poland, aimed at Russia’s capabilities. Panetta was in NZ last week, to put the USMC there for the first time.

        Large rocks would not respect any boundary, tsunamis’ do not either. The idea is to get them long before that happens with a concerted effort, which is well within reach. Mars makes a great radar station for just this, manned or unmanned.

        This kind of effort is the antidote to no-growth 68′er cultural decadence. Some would want to fill prisons (and many banksters will go) but the people’s total induced flatlander lilliputian horizon is the real problem. And these rocks are deadly, as are the ICBM’s.

        Interesting how one proposes isolation for peace and development, while the bankers and war mongers are always for “united efforts”. It is like Dr. Feelgood ” healthcare is best done by charity”, while trillions are handed over to the casino. It gives that warm fuzzy feeling, just before one of those rocks hits the atmosphere.

  20. Philip

    I was listening to that BBC 2 thingy on Hayek as well. The thing that came out very strongly he would have supported letting all banks go to the wall. AND he was also in favour of minimal monetarist policies AND his favorite wacky notion…have multiple competing currencies – so not a Euro man from the get go.

    I see the above attempts at vilifying the man and really all I see is stuff quoted out of context.

    • cooldude

      I have to agree with you Philip. Letting insolvent companies go bankrupt and letting new ones come along and take their place is how a capitalist system would work. This involves some pain but the market is allowed to cleanse itself and innocent ordinary citizens don’t have to foot the bill for failures of private companies. However we don’t have anything close to that we have a crony corporate style of capitalism with a strong hint of fascism thrown in. The banking system and the political system are now like two drunks holding each other up after a very rough night. Our political system has been totally corrupted through it’s open checkbook no limit support of the banking system. This is prevalent in all western societies with the notable exception of Iceland.
      Hayek’s notion of competing currencies, which Ron Paul now supports, is in my mind the easiest and best way to take away the banker’s franchise over what we use as money in our lives. A return to some sort of government/banker gold standard thet doesn’t allow exchange of paper for gold or some SDR money system will just leave the same criminals in charge of what we use as money. Why shouldn’t people be allowed to have a choice in what type of money they use and let the most popular system be used. This seems to me to be a basic human right and it would take away the banker elites power over us very quickly. These are serious suggestions and should not be discounted as the ramblings of some British empire mad man. In some areas Hayek’s ideas have serious merit.

      • Philip

        I dunno if I ever said this on the blog, but many years ago I remember chatting to some engineer friends of mine in the good old Telecom Eireann or Eircom of the 1980s. You might remember the old coin boxes were being swapped out for smart card devices. Remember the top up cards which took anything for 5-20 quid?

        Anyway…some very interesting things happened. Telecom Eireann found it was collecting loads of money w=for cards – but no vat was collected until the card was used. So what to do with unspent credit lying in your bank account? Then there was some attempt to provide a smart card purse – in effect Telecom Eireann would be a bank. It was shot down immediately by major bank influence. Arguments like unregulated money and so on blah blah…

        Next up was Erissson’s Microbank – a wireless microbank (again 1980s stuff). This was virtual banking at it’s purest. No need for a bank at all – only if you decided you needed to buy stuff outside of the Microbank network did you need conventional banking. And I bet you never heard of it…

        The bankers horror of digital currency was that anyone could make it and that they were irrelevant and the government never got their share simply by sitting back.

        What has happened is that Visa & Mastercard got in on the act of being “backers” and so the technnology was proxied and 205 years later we have smart card payments…

        Hayek’s wacky idea was the best one ever. Cronies never liked it. Hayek was an anti-centralist – he was very supportive of government at a legislative level and for strong local representation. But that would mean too much work. All roads lead to Rome and “the lad$$$”

        • Philip

          205 is supposed to be 25…but really…

        • bonbon

          What do you think bankers are doing right now, printing paper for Bernanke’s QE3? It’s digital of course. High-speed Trading is digital.

          The irony of all this is the global “players” have all become banks and list profits from speculation covering the physical collapse. That went on until GM caved in with GMAC quoting great profits (its real-estate arm), was nationalized and bailed out.

    • bonbon

      Hmm, I never quoted Hayek out of context. See the 1983 interview I posted above with Hayek for the actual words and belief espoused there and then. One can wiggle around, but Hayek was the Mont Pelerin Society chief, which gave us the Pan Europe we have right now. That was/is a subsidiary of the London School of Economics. In other words the EU bankers union is Fabian (Blair being one and fully supporting the idea). I wonder if BBC allowed this context to be discussed?
      The “wacky” notion, even the IMF report on a Irving Fisher (Austrian School) revival points out came from Adam Smith’s money as a commodity, and being a great distraction.
      BBC is of course noted for its “neutral” coverage is’nt it now?

      • Philip

        The reason for Hayek’s comment (and it was alluded to in the BBC) was he feared an enslavement of people into a welfare economy that would slow down and collapse and take everything with it. The crash he was hoping for was one that would destroy Keynesian policies and free up the economy. He saw the 1960s era as one of enslavement.

        What I find so funny about this is that you and Hayek seem so aligned.

      • bonbon

        Hayek’s “Road to Serfdom”, is the reference, for readers to consult themselves. See the interview in 1983 I posted in von Hayek’s own words. I have posted two other direct quotes from von Hayek’s LSE course, and his obituary. His economics is based on Bernard Mandeville, as he often said himself, and in letters to Julian Simon. Mandeville’s “Private Vice, Public Virtue”, sold also as “The Grumbling Hive”, he claimed as pure genius and a psychological more than economics tract. In it economic growth, good things, will emerge “spontaneously” in an “unknowable” way from transactions which are “too complex” for the human mind to understand. This is precisely Adam Smith’s “Moral Sentiments” tract. Nowhere is there any basis for economics as we know it, with progress, such as JFK’s NASA, FDR’s TVA, productive powers of labor increasing by creative changes, and mission orientation. Of course then he yearns for the monarchist tradition as he said in that interview from 1983.
        I prefer to be “enslaved” to progress, pursuit of happiness, to an unlimited future for us, than to a no-growth feudal backwardness. Hayek’s crash, to re-start small, is a yearning for massive depopulation back to feudal levels. Dr. Schellnhuber of Potsdam, Merkel’s “scientific” advisor, likes to display graphics of a return to 1 billion, and promotes total decarbonization, filling in Hayek’s silences.

        It is funny how most fall into the “Hayek-Keynes” dog-and-pony circus, and miss the point entirely!

    • Tony Brogan

      Point well taken and endorsed 100% here!

  21. Pat Flannery

    An increase in productivity in the early 20th century drove up living standards in America which allowed its government to outlaw swill milk; a similar 21st century increase in productivity would allow world governments to outlaw the deadly “swill milk” currencies their central banks are feeding to an unsuspecting world population right now.

    This seems to be the essence of David’s latest offering.

    Like the economist on the desert island who deliriously tried to “assume” a can opener into existence, the ideas-starved David is beginning the painful process of admitting that he may have been wrong in asserting that debasing money does not ALWAYS lead to inflation.

    Like all economists who try and fail to defend dead theories, David is now inserting his own Hail Mary assumption called “innovation” into this failed neo-classical economic theory. Too late, its chickens have come home to roost. Whole countries are dying!

    “When the value of paper money is adulterated in such fashion, many people believe that it will only lead to inflation. I am not one of these, but I could well be wrong”. At least that is a start David.

    • Philip

      Good point. But increases in productivity can happen without increase in employment. Maybe productivity needs better definition. Rules keep changing.

      • bonbon

        Who’s rules might I ask?

        • Philip

          Steam invention (oh I can see a mastery of fire argument coming) meant less farm labourers needed. That changed rules for how many people you need. It sorted itself out over time and more things came along etc etc etc…now we are in the 21st Century and it is a little more complicated – particularly when all can be made in a lights out automated factory and engineers and scientists and economists can be mimicked by silicon.

          Today, computers can now be programmed (yes the dumb things) to writing code (what people think is an exclusively human creative process) more efficiently and accurately that people can…and the engineers cannot figure out out they did it anymore. Now…there’s a rule changer for you. Google machine designed sorting algorithms.

          As the song goes…it only gets better…

          And some of this stuff is running our banking systems :)

        • bonbon

          On fire, to clear the economic fog, Leibniz was the first to see that it would enable one man to do the work of 100, in other words to increase the productive power of labor. Papin went from France to London, to build a pressure vessel. He “disapeared” and “coincidentally” Newton’s Royal Society issued a fire patent to Savary. Now Savary’s machine resembled an early version of Papin’s, but the most revealing aspect is it was exclusively for drawing mine water, NOT to increase a miners power. So it was a deficient design. A little later Benjamin Franklin brought Watt to the Royal Society for public recognition. Otherwise we would never have had that machine.
          With power, the percentage of labor in farming dropped in industrial advanced societies, yet producing far more food than all pre-industrial efforts together.

          When we step up the fire flux density, nuclear power can drive highspeed magneto-levition transport changing the Eurasian economy entirely away from dependence on a globalized maritime hangover from the British Empire.

          None of this comes out of a silicon search engine, nor pieces of gold, nor paper money, nor robots. We need all those, but the economy does not seep, emerge, effuse from them. That is the Adam Smith error extended to silicon. The error, or rather deliberate hoax turned up with von Neumann’s cybernetics, that thought, creative reasoning could spring from silicon, is some unknowable way (the theme of I Robot….). That is exactly the same as the Austrian School’s economics seeping in a spontaneous, unknowable way from dead capital.
          Arthur Griffith got that precisely right in 1905.

    • Welcome Pat

      Changing your mind is what adults tend to do, so let’s see if we are in a deep liquidity trap due to excessive leverage, in which case the paper money might be just what we need. Or let’s see if we are on the cusp of inflation.



      • Philip

        Why did the excessive leverage occur at all? That’s what all the majority of comments are about. If it was an accident (which you seem to imply), then yes, print and fix. But it seems like that it has suited a lot of vested interests to allow excessive leverage carry one to centralise ownership.

      • Pat Flannery


        It does not matter whether we are in a (Krugman style) liquidity trap or on the cusp of (Germany 1920s style) hyperinflation. It is much more immediate and serious than that. What we’ve got here is the imminent COMPLETE failure of the engines of our current economic system – our bond markets.

        A more appropriate analogy therefore might be of a jet liner whose cockpit suddenly lights up like a Christmas tree. Every warning light comes on at the same time. The pilots/economists become totally confused. Air France Flight 447 comes to mind. Nobody was trained for its unexpected crisis over the dark Atlantic.

        Essentially the AF crew over-handled the flight controls, which were not the problem. Like the 228 passengers of that ill-fated 2009 night flight from Brazil to France our lives are in the hands of economists who do not understand the problem.

        Sadly, our economist are not looking at the correct instruments – the overheated asset gauges. Instead of turning on the fire extinguishers of “mark-to-market” accounting, they are pouring fuel/liquidity on the burning bond-market/engines by insisting on Enron-style “mark-to-model” fantasy accounting. Thus the overheated bond-market/engines are about to implode. All pretence that the “mark-to-model” debt can ever be repaid then disappears. The system will crash.

        David: as an economist and opinion leader you have a responsibility here. Your strapped-in readers trust you. And like those airline passengers they are terrified.

        The AF pilots could have saved the plane if they had ceased violent flight-control input and just lowered the nose. The plane would have flown itself. Instead too much input killed all on board. So it is with our current economic crisis. The asset market temperatures are pegged in the red. Central banks need to stop hosing them with liquidity/jet fuel.

        Meanwhile the dark ocean of worldwide food riots is rushing alarmingly upwards. If you economists stick to you’re a priori academic theories, by the time you find out which side of your spurious 50/50 neo-classical bet was correct, we will all be dead.

        The problem is overvalued bond debt. Lower the nose. Mark the bonds to market. The economy will right itself.

        • bonbon

          All of what you say gets close to the curve, the Triple Curve, which includes all that and more – the way to deal with it – a three-point plan. Have a look at the graphic metaphor in the link below. Then it becomes clear why we need
          1)Glass-Steagall to separate the Monetary from Financial madness
          2)Solid commercial banking based on National Credit, not derivative monetization
          3)But most importantly we have to reverse the collapse of the physical economy, That collapsing curve
          And all simultaneously without missing a beat.

          • Pat Flannery

            I think the greatest lesson we can teach these turkeys is that they cannot collect on a debt that cannot be paid. I am hoping Ireland will declare in its next budget that it has run out of road. Sooner or later some sovereign has to default. It may as well be Ireland since it is the poster boy for the whole nonsense.

        • Tony Brogan

          The bonds are overvalued because they are monetized by the Federal reserve who is now the largest holder of US debt I believe.
          Unlimited money printing is called QE to infinity. Nobody will buy the bonds issued by such a government and so in order to drive down the interest rates (which raises the bond value) the fed is creating the mother of all bubbles by buying the debt.
          If the nose of the plane is pushed down it will go in to an uncontrolled dive as it is already stalled.
          There is no saving the financial system and it will crash.
          The plane yet may fly a little further, but………
          A hyperinflationary depression can not be avoided.It is a planned event, not an accident.

          • Pat Flannery

            By lowering the nose I mean devalue the bonds.

            The AF pilot died pulling back on the stick. The Fed may do the same and bring all of us with them. They are trying to maintain altitude by pulling back on the QE stick while the economy is in a flat spin.

            The Fed should let go of the stick. The nose will fall by itself i.e. the bonds will find their real value and the economy will fly itself.

        • bonbon

          The metaphor of the plane needs updating. Remember the race to Mach 1 and the crashes? The stubborn refusal to adopt Busemann and Prandtl’s supersonic airflow work, based on Riemann’s unique forecast of sonic boom in the 1850′s, and to fly by instinct, seat of the pants in a new regime, killed countless pilots. Parts of the plane can be supersonic at the same time as others subsonic – the resulting stress can break a machine apart, and the usual nose-up or down can have a totally different effect. And the text-book wing airflow pics, will kill you at these speeds.
          Economists are using theories from the horse and carriage days, the economy is supersonic. How we got to that level, economists simply cannot understand. It comes from outside their theories. In other words all economic jumps in power density, food production, have to added in ad-hoc after to a theory purporting to deal with economic progress! Exactly the same thing with the climate models. Both totally useless academic meanderings.
          All economic progress comes from human creativity. Banning that causes an economic crash dive.

  22. bonbon

    To try to help to clear up the confusion about economics, with people saying we have “inflation” as well as “deflation at the same time, whose only effect it to befuddle people looking for some clarity, look at the Triple Curve :

    We have a combined interdependent motion of 3 aspects, and monetarist like to focus on 1. Forgotten by 99% is the physical economy. The subsuming action of course is the effect on society, when this idea becomes graspable. No statistics or algebra catches this action, but it can be grasped by the mind. Look at the graphic.

    We hit the same “global warming causes cooling” nonsense, because the climate model is deficient, only that, as deficient as a monetary argument, used to justify insane policies, written in anyway by the composition itself of the model.

  23. padser

    Quote: “Will all this money, without productivity, kill the economy?”

    I suppose it depends on what you consider to be “productive”.

    If it refers to ‘Cloud Computing’, ‘Games Analyzers’, ‘Customer Service Reps’, & ‘Masses of Underpaid Private Sector Workers’…Then – all is good!

    • bonbon

      There is a way to answer that question truthfully, and exactly. What is a knee-shaking doubt, a horrible uncertainty, a dread of some vague unknowable, can be expressed with a metaphor shedding light on the foggy swamp of superstition :

      The Triple Curve from the 1990′s is the best device I know of to grasp this with the mind. Look at the 2 monetary and financial curves, and then with shock, at the productive economy.

      Answer is yes, these mad monetarist reflexes, mindless, are killing the economy, meaning lowering the relative potential population density – i.e. genocide.

      • Philip

        Let’s get back to basics and stop being tangled up the in intricacies of a pseudo-science know as finance. Like gamblers, Economists try to figure out a “system” and go into the casino and initially they win a few bob. But as with all systems – as soon as everyone is using it, the house wins. Monetary Policies, Central Bank influencers etc. all work initially until the house figures out how to neutralise it or take advantage of it. Casino’s love systems and people who play systems for this very reason. It makes the winnings very predictable.

        The Casino’s nightmare are pure random gamblers. This is when the takings become minimised across the board.

        Substitute Casino and House for BANKs. Economists and Governments for Systems men and it amounts to the same thing.

        What has happened over the last 100 or so years if we have fallen in love with systems and lost faith in people and nations. The western world has enslaved itself.

        Here is what happened from the mid 90s onwards (although I think it was well underway since 60s)

        1) We exported our ability to make our own wealth on the basis that it was cheaper elsewhere and we would make room to make even more wealth. This was bogus as all it did was
        2) Force people to use savings and incur debts to buy rubbish property and other dead non-wealth producing assets in the hope of propping up their pensions and depleted incomes. It worked reasonably for those who had property or had some assets.
        3) Allowed or gave acceptance to the idea that poorer countries could forced to export to the west at low prices in the hope of paying off debt used to develop their assets (or release their equity. IMF, WOrld Bank etc were all party to this.
        4) Now as we are peering into a black hole of massive debt (an overplayed system). The liquidity trap – or lack of money – is met with printing money. But this will lead to 2 and 3 becasue no 1 has been exported – and those countries are now in trouble because of 4). Do 4 again.

        We are stuck unless we tackle the casino.

        • Tony Brogan

          Hi Philip
          As I see it we are beset with a banking system that binds us in debt no matter what else we do. Even the frugal solvent idividuals are forced to pay through the national debt and the induced inflation.
          Unless we rid ourselves of the central banks and their controls we can do nothing worthwhile in any other area.
          central banks have a monopoly on the production of the national currency.
          They are the harbouror of the nations wealth.

          They increase the money supply where a thriving economy needs no extra money. In fact it is essential that no money be added in order to maintain a stable financial base. By increasing the money supply they start and add to inflation.
          Inflation benefits those close to the source of the new money and not the regular saver or wage earner. (People bought houses on credit with small downpayments so as to leverage the inflation to their benefit. When the boom went bust that leverage worked in the opposite direction.
          Inflation penalizes savers by making their savings worth less and forcing them to spend the money while it is still worth something.
          governments tax inflation adding to the robbery.
          I see inflation by itself as a stealth tax with the added indignity that governments treat an illusory gain as a real one. So called capital gains are largely the result of inflation and should not be taxed.

          The central bankers as the trustee of the nations wealth treat it as their own and refuse to divulge what is held or traded. They are unaccountable.
          The people need to be allowed to use as money any thing they desire and some money should not be declared illegal as gold and silver coin is. Why is there a tax on silver coin.

          The interest on the national debt is now the largest expenditure of government and it is no accident that income tax was implemented to pay this interest.
          We should pay no income taxes. It is a tax on personal effort and daily work.

          In short. Close the central banks. Outlaw fractional reserve banking. Implement and allow commodity money.
          Revoke the national debt and repeal the income tax laws.

        • bonbon

          Exactly what I have been saying in plain English. A good graphic metaphor, that Triple Curve captures the principle in any language. The Casino is that hyper curve on top, it was on top untill they printed money to overtake it.

          But the 3rd curve dropping into the abyss is our means of existence. So this is not some banksters trick – it really gets them hopping mad, and frothing, that reality curve.

          No punch is pulled, they get it from 3 directions at once.

          That curve overtaking or inflection point was the basis for the forecast which hit as the LTCM fiasco in 1998 blew up. Just before Glass-Steagall repeal in 1999.
          That repeal exactly then was precisely murderously wrong and that Triple Curve, I guarantee you was on dealers and bankster desks already. It captured exactly the insane state of mind they are in, still today.

          We know the root of the madness, and the right action to take. Failure to act for whatever reason is now not excusable. That curve is “knowing it”.

  24. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Tony,

    I agree with your analysis for the medium and long term. What I feel is important to point out in the short term is the type of inflation that is occurring. In a normal circumstance when governments print money it causes inflation by increasing the money supply so long as it makes it’s way into the economy. The reason that is not general the cause of the inflation we are witnessing is because the government in the us isn’t spending the money on public works projects it’s building a mountain of cash for to pay for the coming strike on Iran. Also private businesses in the Us are paying down debt and cutting costs in what mcwillams refers to as a balance sheet recession. What is driving inflation is speculation by hedge funds managers on commodities as the zero sum lottery they involve themselves in is very lucrative in their eyes even though enormously destructive to the real economy. These gys get their money to destroy everything they touch. It’s s bit like a tiger making his living in a savangha by eating everything he sees in his area.

    I agree with you and am continuing to add to my gold holding in the Canadian vault!

    • Tony Brogan

      Yes there is a violent deflation in areas affected by debt and the resulting lack of consumption.
      Banks are hanging on to cash as they are not sure of liabilities. contingent liabilities are huge.
      When people lose faith in a currency the value will plummit and there will be a sudden hyperinflationary event in that currency.Then one currency after another.
      Debts are too large to be paid as the worlds GDP will not cover even the interest payable.
      In the meantime some parts of the economy are inflated. The house my brother is in looking after a 101 year old man. The gas bill has increased 10% already this year and goes up another 8% next month.
      My food costs have in 3 years risen from $350/mth to $500/th. That for one person. In five years the moorage on my boat went from 6.99/ft to 11.00 /ft.
      The car insurance went up 8% this year for me. AAnd on it goes.
      deflation because of trade loss. I bought a jacket today orinally priced at 50 pounds and sold for 35 pounds. Compared to Canada a similar jacet is 180 dollars or 110 pounds. Recession is biting in England but not yet in Canada.

  25. On reflection there is a childish naivety about the article that makes me wonder if the author is blinkered in the narrow confines and academic nature of his ivory tower profession. It was entertaining reading but hardly in the same ballpark as tangible substance. No heart. Half hearted and smug as hell. Cold reporting from whatever angle suits the whims of the author’s mysterious ideology and goals. Whatever they might be. Number one all for one

    The words ‘growth’ and ‘productivity’ appear out of thin air from nowhere and smell of romantic pasts that were lies that carry all the credibility of General Haig’s menacing finger, the mad warlike lust of Lord Kitchener and the pathetic sight of Chamberlain’s return with an empty piece of paper from Herr Hitler. That is why growth should be a swear word

    It is fitting that this corrupt shithole is now run by the supporters of Franco. It is this igorance of history that makes me feel no pity for the Irish on red eye flights to foreign cities on monday mornings. They paid their money and took their choices as conscious adults. Good luck to them and hell mend them and theirs

    My gut tells me we are being spin doctored a right wing media in a country that is so right wing that people would rather starve than admit that they need society as much as society needs them. They are mentally ill with the Neocon disease of selfishness and individuality that some of us would like to eradicate and wipe from our conscience once and for all. We have been royally conned and know it all too well if we are honest

    When you dismiss bullshit illusions of Irishness such as the all Ireland final, the angelus at six and half an hour of news in a language that is pretentious and annoying beyond belief you can only come to one conclusion. This country is a gombeen shithole and no Irish person can ever again be taken seriously again. You are a fucking joke lads and for many people Irishness is a lie and just a load of sentimental horse manure

    You can’t trust the Irish to get anything right. Ask the guy in Queensland who refuses to employ Irish workers on his farm. These are the children of the jagger generation and like their parents they are not worth a light. They have had life and opportunities handed to them on a plate and still they are perpetual fuck up merchants. Previous generations envied them

    It’s a long way back but I am sure you boys and girls will grow up one day

    By cutting the price of a flash new car to a third of the original selling price should raise moral questions. That figure would not have appeared out of thin air without someone getting screwed. Do you right wing economists think we are all driven by our dicks and a lust for wealth and status at any cost?

    Think again Irish brother and grow the fuck up

  26. padser

    I think “swill milk” takes many forms all over the world!

    To be very current and having watched that stupid current affairs program last night on TV. I see a TD ridiculing another TD about the attire they are wearing in the Dail. Such pettiness in a dire crisis. The argument for ‘good dress sense’ is exactly the same as the “swill milk”. The better it looks the more you’ll drink! But upon drinking it, we note it tastes like shit! Which begs the question…..why do we ask for more?

  27. cooldude

    I actually thought this article was quite good. The main question is will this current bout of money printing turn into poisonous swill or will it lead to economic progress. My own view is it will turn to swill because it doesn’t address the core issue which is that all the economies in the western world are drowning in debt from the insolvent banks. This is not just as Irish issue and Irish people have behaved in a similar way to the Spanish, Greek or even the American people. These asset bubbles are created by the banking system and they suck in people in the same manner all over the western world. This is no more an Irish problem than it is a Spanish problem or a Greek one. It is a global problem brought about by our system of central banking and it’s ugly twin sister the fractional reserve banking system. This is what is at the core of the problem and we need to take away these guys franchise over our monetary systems. These guys are very aware that if you control the money system you can control the country and that is how they are gaining more and more control. We need to fight back and take control of the monetary system off them and eliminate this system of debt based money. Allowing competition in what we use as money would be a good start.

  28. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Pauldiv,

    This Irishman happens to agree with about 80% of your comments above. I have a couple of observations though. Your post is guilty of that which you accuse McWilliams in that it is as smug as hell.

    As for the bit about “no Irish person can ever again be taken seriously” it’s so nonsensical it it doesn’t merit consideration. Ditto all Irishnpeople are “fuck up merchants”.

    The post is also dripping in vitriol and narcism and betrays a deep seated frustration with the failure of the people to embrace left wing politics it seems. Just to let you know we had a much stronger left wing prescense in Ireland here during the 1980s and when being forced to emigrate that time the last final rape one had to endure was paying about 6 weeks wages to fly from here to London because of powerful left wing representation in various administrations.

    Whether you go too far to the left or the right you wind up in the same place Pauldiv either a gombeen shithole or gulag/concentration camp.


  29. misticmonk

    With a new baby and a pregnant wife should I discuss these problems at home or just roll with life.

    • bonbon

      The shortest novel ever written, for those with other things to do :
      “Good Heavens, she’s pregnant again. I wonder who done it”.
      Religion, mystery and a bit of the other – everything one needs for entertainment. Add in some low-cal recipe’s from Michelle Obama and we have the Irish Times!

  30. padser

    While I get very angry every so often about how I may fair financially in the future with all the austerity etc. and think about who I can blame for all this economic mess. I keep coming back to one person. The former Financial Regulator.

    Then I keep thinking, could I take a civil case against him in court. Or, could the Public do so?

    • bonbon

      When it comes to law, they will likely counter that everything the regulator did or did not do was legal by the books then. The key then is to find out who changed the laws probably over 15-20 years of steady salami- slicing away regulations culminating in the 1999 almost simultaneous global repeal of bank separation, Glass-Steagall. We know who lobbied in the US, and Germany steadily and unrelentingly. They are likely arm-in-arm.
      For instance in Germany it turns out that most of the financial liberalization was by Green politicians and party hacks. The reason is the support they find for their agenda comes from supra-national agencies. FF was in a Green coalition. But the other parties have adopted green agenda’s, and their reasoning. That is why party vote-counting does not show what is going on.

    • bonbon

      Here is breaking news on bank regulation:

      Paul Volcker: ring-fencing banks is not enough

  31. bonbon

    Clinton Global Initiative Annual Meeting — a Platform for Imperial Doomsday; WWF Wants “An End in Sight” for Population

    Sept. 25, 2012 (LPAC)–Today was the last day of the 3 day annual conference of former President Bill Clinton’s organization, the Clinton Global Initiative (CGI) — on the theme of “Designing for Impact,” held in New York City at the time of the UN General Assembly heads of state sessions, as has been the case for several years.
    While past CGI meetings were replete with green ideology and celebrity activists, this year left all that in the dust by presenting hardcore, imperial messages of depopulation, food control, and doom. This was shown most clearly in this morning’s first plenary, titled, “The Future of Food,” the very same title as Prince Charles’ 2012 book, “On the Future of Food” (Rodale, February), a re-issue of an address he gave in Washington, D.C. in 2011. The food message was the standard royalist, genocidal drivel: resources are scarce, people must quit being wasteful; and poor, smallholder farmers can improve their lot by teaming up with big, nice multi-national companies.
    The session was chaired by Rockefeller Foundation President, Judith Rodin. The three panelists were the Senior Vice President of the World Wildlife Fund, Jason Clay; Irene Rosenfeld, CEO of Kraft Foods, one of the world’s largest dairy processors; the Agriculture Minister of Nigeria, Akinwumi Adesina, who formerly worked at the Rockefeller Foundation under Rodin; and lastly, a U.S. restaurateur who specializes in how to donate uneaten restaurant food to poor people. The discussion was equivalent to that which would have been convened in London in the 1840s, by a panel of experts on how to improve the diet of the poor in Ireland, by having them spill less from their milk pails, and improve their nutrition by gathering wild berries.
    WWF spokesman Jason Clay led off the ‘future of food’ discussion by raising overpopulation, saying that by 2050, there would be 9.4 billion people, and then by 2100, there would be over 10 billion, before population “peaks, then drops.” He lamented that 80 countries are growing at a rate of 5% or more, and “we don’t have an end in sight.” Watch out, he said. In 2010, Russia banned wheat exports, which led to the Arab Spring. Today, four of the eight nations which produce 65 percent of the world’s oilseeds are all hit by drought. We will see the results of that on the streets. The discussion then went downhill from there.
    Over the three days, there were six plenary panels, and dozens of other kinds of sessions, all featuring prominent crooks from the privileged, financial-bail-out class, including dinners funded by Goldman Sachs, Barclays, et al.; Lloyd Blankfein, chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs and Antony Jenkins, Group Chief Exec of Barclays were among the speakers, which included top executives from Deutsche Bank and the major global cartel mega-companies, including Wal Mart, Mosaic (formerly a fertilizer division of Cargill), PepsiCo, Kraft, and others.
    On Tuesday, both Barack Obama and Mitt Romney spoke. The closing session featured President Morsi of Egypt and Bill Clinton.
    Mixing it up on this roster, were former British Prime Minister Tony Blair; UN Sec. Gen Ban Ki Moon; the presidents of Haiti, Malawi, and Mexico; Hillary Cliton and Timothy Geithner; and top execs of the World Bank, InterAmerican Development Bank, UNICEF, UN Industrial Development Organization, and numerous NGOs and foundations, including Skoll, Rockefeller, Bill & Melinda Gates, Ford, and MasterCard.
    Among the conference sponsors were Barclays, the Ford Foundation, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Abraaj Capital, Credit Agricole, Shangri-La Industries, and more. More than enough to take your appetite away.

  32. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Padser,

    Your energy would be wasted even if your campaign against the former regulator on his 300k pa pension. We have a saying in the countryside “you never argue with a pig because sooner or later you wind up in the shite and the pig is the one that will be happy”.

    Use your energy to put Padser first in a positive
    way by reskilling or trying to do something worthwhile for yourself. I am a former construction industry person also and have been retraining for the last three years.

    Start with something you are passionate about and if you come up with something good I can point you in the direction of people who can help you and save you all the time I wasted in blind alleys.


    • padser

      Thanks Michael, for your sincerity and positive sentiment. Your right about moving forward, and in the way you described, I have done so, more times than I care to remember. And, I think we are actually privileged in this otherwise fecked up hole, when it comes to getting some ‘free’ education and even the level social welfare, for betterment.

      My own working life, up to around 2000, culminated to disillusionment of how things were done (or more precisely how people were treated) within a multinational company, and taking them to the Labour Court, and subsequently, successfully ‘somewhat’ got my point of view acknowledged.

      The hardship associated with that chapter of my life, which lasted approximately one year, almost destroyed every fibre of my being, struggling with the Unions supposedly representing me, thus compounded my disillusionment even further by how the ‘system’ is so stacked against ‘one’.

      It has not always been easy. Sleepless night’s, panic attacks, thoughts of self destruction, depression, medication, stigma. In desperation, I started working on the building sites, but could not sustain a working relationship with my superiors. So, having worked self employed on-off signing on the Dole. Ironically, I feel quite comfortable with that situation, getting on, with just enough money, and not satisfying the lust of “the ever profiteering employer”.

      The Boom, for me, probably came at just the right time, it ‘enabled’ me. But I didn’t feel unique in that way, because I’ like so many others were thinking “this is the way it should be”. This is the way this country has long yearned to be. Man and Woman alike, realising their potential in their own Country and being at long last – able to fend for their family and sustain a half decent life, through a more rewarding employment.

      Unfortunately, as we now know, for a few – if not many, all of that to have been a sham! Almost all of what we were told to be a unique achievement thus evoking a ‘National Pride’, the “re-imagination of the old Ireland”, was in fact to unfold as just that… “pure imagination”. I don’t mind saying it, bonbon is right. Each and every Nation, for want of a better word – groomed, by it’s respective leaders, then royally fucked into submission of conformity and to the way it is done elsewhere, for what greater good no one could speculate, Nationally or otherwise.

      I suppose as ‘one’ – the task of taking the Regulator to Court and being successful wouldn’t serve any individual, win or lose. But, I think as a team in the shape of the all citizens of Ireland, we might possibly be more successful, sharing a common conviction or and the burden.

      I believe what I did was just, and help maybe another. Even if I quit half way, the action speaks reams. Think what the People could do for it’s Country and maybe inspire change for generation’s, and to the ‘conventional wisdom’ that is actually destroying us.

      As an very independent individual and the trials I have faced in the past, I am compelled to believe, that there was to be something worthwhile in the lack of regulation in the financial sector. Something worthwhile in the future, perhaps for our children and theirs. But, I really do struggle sometimes, with that single belief.


    • bonbon

      As we say putting lipstick on a pig leaves it still a pig. That’s what the bailout is.

      Passionate about doing something about this disaster, is the best of all, something a pig is not capable of. Passionate about understanding what it is and how it will be changed is to be human. And we, mankind, win.

      We do not run from pigs, a full Irish breakfast is good for you!

  33. Deco

    e evre there were to be no defaults under any circumstances. Protect those who speculate. Screw those who toil.

    The EU is rotten with corruption. We would be cleaner if we were Switzerland and that is saying something.

  34. Deco

    Some of the txt on my previous posting is missing.

    Print baby print.

    All of this mess goes back to Trichet. Trichet was mired in controversy in France. He was involved in an investigation. Chirac wanted him to be the ECB head. Trichet should have been investigated, but instead it was all quickly tidied up and forgotten about. The EU centralizers, and thos that can be bought expressed confidence in Trichet. The Old Schitzo on D’Oliers Street endorsed this figure of controversy.

    Trichet lowered interest rates, and “stimulated” the EU economy, causing a massive overdrive of borrowing in the PIGIS. The French FIRE sector loaned out to high rick ventures like anglo Banglo and the Greeks.

    When it all went wrong Trichet, was demanding “socialism for capitalist failure”. There would be no defaults under any circumstances. Protect those who speculate. Screw those who toil.

    The EU is rotten with corruption. We would be cleaner if we were Swirzerland. And that is asying something.

    The whole thing stinks. And we know the scale of the stink, by the absence of debate.

    To crack this, we can start with only one demand. One request that will unravell the tapestry of deceit.

    Who are the anglo Bondholders ? Why won’t the Irish media discuss the Anglo Bondholders ?

    • bonbon

      To crack this means facing up to the results of the ’68′er “revolution” when truth became a matter of taste!

      The only reply to that is cannibalism is a matter of taste!

      Now the “mainstream press”, being the sophistry division of Aristotle, just cannot help poisoning any attempt at the pursuit of happiness – truth. Notice how fine recipe’s scatter about as serious discussion begins? That is the poisoning reflex of Aristotle, who killed Alexander this way. It gives their game away.

      Watch what you eat of the “mainstream media”!

      • Deco


        Lamestream media cannot be trusted.

        The truth is out there, but they present the peopel with something else. Something approved of by “our advertising sponsors”.

  35. FINANCIAL CAPITALIST ORTHODOXY! A principal clarification of common misconceptions. – DMcW: …let’s see if we are in a deep liquidity trap due to excessive leverage, in which case the paper money might be just what we need. Or let’s see if we are on the cusp of inflation. 50/50.

    With respect, but this particular deep rooted financial orthodoxy is the red line going through all of David’s writings on this blog.

    Two possibilities! It is this or it is that, BANG, book closed. 19th century dust is in the air!

    Most economists would not be able to explain in detail how the monetary system really works at the core. The blog articles are always running behind, which if you think about it, is a comfortable position to write from, but for the reader it is like reading the news paper from a year ago.

    What is required since many years is obvious, it is the global reform of the monetary system at work. The very core needs to change.

    It is somewhat remarkable, this document from August is coming from within the IMF:

    We need to go further and apply what is required, paradigm change!

    Why is it not happening ever since we know it is required?

    For two, orthodox, reasons that were policy since long, deep rooted and false beliefs that even today are still taught, hence turned into a common and desired public misconception of monetary systems.

    It is this deliberately spread false belief, deliberate disinformation that Bank credits are financed by savings or central bank credits, and second, that monetary creation is in public hands, none of which are true.

    The contrary is the case, monetary creation is governed by private vested interests. This is the explanation why a full reform of the system at work was sabotaged from BIS and central bankers, it is them who would loose out in a core deep reformation that prohibits by law private monetary creation.

    The Financial Capitalist Industry is private, and together with arms manufacturers they share place 1 and 2 in the list of the most powerful lobbies on the planet, where in desired change the most powerful lobby should represent the people and not a small circle of private vested interests, dictating social political change and applying policies via puppet governments with totalitarian methods.

    it is the power circles of private monetary allocation that needs to be broken up and dismissed once and for all. The goal is simple, of the people are well off, the banks are well off too.

    The above IMF article, while they express not to represent official IMF views, is such an indicator for a possible paradigm change, the resistance against such reforms we witnessed in the past six years.

    We are forced to breath in 19th/20th century dust too long. people are slowly waking up to the facts and the reasons for this global heist. There is hope, there is always hope, but at the same time you will find people willing to place money on the table of the nutshell magicians working with techniques of mass manipulation, a controlled media landscape at their disposal.

    Fresh thinking, and not the rigid exclusionist views of a handful of dinosaurs is required. The goal is very simple, it is the wellbeing of the people of our nations, and no Tony, Pareto was wrong.


    • bonbon

      That link was posted in the previous blog and fully replied to.

      It is an attempt to revive Irving Fisher’s ignored petition from the 1930′s. FDR went with the New Deal, Glass-Steagall, and the RFC instead, ignoring both Keynes and Fisher. We know that worked very well.

      Irving Fisher brought the Austrian School to Chicago.

    • cooldude

      Very interesting George. These “power circles of private monetary application” as you call them are running the whole show. This operation is run by our system of central banks and is overseen by the BIS. It is no coincidence that the central bank of Libya was owned by the government and issued debt free money for the benefit of it’s people. It also had plans to introduce a gold dinar into it’s monetary system. This was the real reason it was invaded and all this talk of “humanitarian aid” for the Libyan freedom fighters was just a cover for the overthrowal of a sovereign government who wouldn’t play ball with the banking elites. The first thing these bunch of so called freedom fighters did when they got power was to create a central bank which took it’s orders from the BIS. These guys control the western monetary system and through this control are organizing the heist for the benefit of the corporations in which they have a major stake. This was the basis of Perkin’s books. All this current bout of currency creation does is keep the ponzi going for another while so they can get their hands on some more assets and increase the centralization of power. The question is how can this heist be stopped?

      • Hi Cooldude,

        people who seek for solutions and are getting dragged into the murky world of economics are easily lost. But let’s assume economics would hold the answer, it does not and history is providing evidence, but for the sake of an argument claim you sit in front of “the most important” economist on the planet. – Hahaha, are they all not just that? – So what would you hear as a statement why we can not cancel all these odious debts and press the reset button.

        They would fire textbook stuff at you such as, one persons liability is another persons asset.


        Well, then I suggest to beat them with their own weapons and reframe the public debate about the choices we have as a people.

        So the answer is simple, if one group has excessive financial assets, then the other group has excessive financial debts. So we could wipe clean all debts in a fraction of a second, at the push of a button to do exactly what?

        To restore a balance that is required for the basic functioning of societal structures.

        We must disembowel the power circles of bankers, complicit politicos and vested corporate interest groups and focus on REAL capital assets for the benefit of all of us, and not on those that are on Wallstreets financial LSD trip.

        Contrary to the financial fantasy world, when I speak of real capital, I suggest to focus on social capital and natural resources capital. The ruthless depletion of the latter is a crime against humanity and should be treated as such.

        We need a core deep paradigm change that no longer has GDP and stock prices at the center of economy, productivity as such no longer is a useful key indicator.

        All this has lead to a system where we are expected and taught to worship an economic system that makes the most money – which is nothing but an accounting agreement – for those who already have the most money. In effect we allow them to impoverish society at large.

        Money is a means, not an end,

        Eliminate extremes of wealth and poverty, assets and liabilities. Press the red button and do this globally. debt forgiveness, rebalance the system that is out of balance.

        Restructure global economy into a planet wide interconnected system of responsible bioregional economies. Exchanging Information and technology and develop a responsibility to live within environmental means.

        • bonbon

          Who is going to press the button, pray tell? Those happy bioregional remnants of shattered former sovereign nation-states? Or the empire standing on the rubble heap?

          Keynes also called for world government, and currency the “Bancor”, which sure looks like a Euro on steroids, or in his case, with lipstick. von Hayek in the published 1983 interview posted here, fawned for the monarchist “tradition”.

          Leaving out “who” and “how” as the Chicago Boys did with Pinochet, or Abba Lerner on Hitler (until he blurted it out), is now on the radar for deafening silence.

  36. michaelcoughlan

    Hi Padser,

    If I could sign my name to your previous post I would because I have had an almost identical experience watching talented individual fired because they would do their jobs properly etc as I bet has everyone else on the site.

    It is very important that you don’t fall into the trap of trying to change the system because there is guck all you can do about it and the most important citizen you can help is yourself not in a selfish way but to free you from the rage that all of us feel towards the statusquo in Ireland. Once you embrace this new outlook that you can only change yourself and the way you look at all the shite going on every thing will fall into place for you from that point on. Ibhope I don’t sojnd patronising but I would hate for you or any other right minded citizen to waste as much time as I have beating the shit out of myself and everyone who would listen to me at nausem about the assholes who have laid this country low.



    • Tony Brogan

      Michael, it is never a waste of time to get the point accross but it does consume a huge amount of energy. All one has to do is get the attention of one person at a time. A stone dropped into a pond creates a ripple that travels to the other side!!
      But one must take care of oneself before attempting to help others.

    • bonbon

      I’ll have a look at that, but the focus on only one of the 3 curves, with the Triple Curve as the metaphor for action, it is a fallacy of composition.

      There are 3 interdependent “driving potentials” not any single one taken on its own, as if amputated from the living economy. As that link tries to do, but not quite grasping it, monetary proposals are flawed and as such are deadly.

  37. michaelcoughlan

    Hello pat Flannery,

    Your making the same mistake McWilliams has bern making for years. Your analysis is 100% correct as is your solution if you look at it from the perspective of a normal well adjusted economist.

    Trouble is sometimes people make money from crashed things like hedgefund managers short selling bonds or or scrap merchants from waste aluminium.

    Any chance you could revaluate from this perspective and give us a solution which suits the realpolitik of the situation? My question is honest and not meant to be condescending or disrespectful.


    • Pat Flannery

      Hi Michael Coughlan:

      Be aware that I am but newly returned to Ireland after 36 years in California and trying to pick up the threads, so forgive me if I seem a little naïve and ill-informed at times. But it may help that I am a fresh pair of eyes here and I always call it as I see it.

      It seems that the Irish have become the canary in the Troika coalmine. That can be used at the bargaining table by the Irish Government – if it has the huevos.
      Austerity has reached the point of diminishing returns in Ireland. Any more cuts and the economy will contract exponentially in a death spiral. The Troika will thus have killed their favourite canary.

      There is a clear solution. Ireland can acknowledge its bond debt but defer all principal and interest payments until the country starts to recover. That is the classic reorganization plan used all the time in American bankruptcy courts under Chapters 11 and 13. It avoids default and keeps the debtor solvent.

      Any smart creditor anywhere understands the merits of accepting such a debtor payment plan rather than issuing a death sentence. The dumb alternative is “the scorpion and the frog” scenario.

      There is a real danger that another severe budget in December could bring Ireland to the economic tipping point. The Troika’s compliant canary could quickly turn into a dead parrot and a dead debtor is no good to any creditor.

      The danger is real and immediate because the signs of economic death and dying are everywhere in Ireland. Perhaps it is more obvious to me than those of you who have swam about in it like the proverbial boiled-to-death frog in the slowly heating water. It is clear to me that the deadly Laissez-faire of the Great Famine has reached boiling point again. The parallels with 1847 are eerily familiar.

      The Irish Government and the Irish people must together warn the Troika not to push the Irish economy beyond the tipping point, even though the population seem extraordinarily compliant. Their shocked stupor should not be mistaken for acquiescence. Remember the fable of the boiling frog.

      The problem is as clear as the above solution. The country’s debt is overstated because the outstanding bonds are overvalued. All bonds are worth what their secured assets are worth. Real estate is worth what a bank will lend on it. The country’s current debt is therefore worth the sum total of what the country’s banks will currently lend on the sum total of the currently-bonded real estate assets.

      Both assets and liabilities need to be written down, that’s all. It’s a simple matter of double-entry bookkeeping. Yet Air France lost a perfectly good airplane and 228 people for nothing more. Our developing economic situation is akin to a Greek Tragedy. Let’s hope it does not end like one.

      • michaelcoughlan


        I agree again with you 100%. The trouble is we re not allowed to do this politically because the knock on effect is to weaken the euro. The late Brian Lenihan said he felt betrayed by the ECB because he was not allowed for political reasons to burn the bondholders even though the bonds themselves were trading at a huge discount at the time on the open market. The ecb made him pay full whack. Thats the realpolitick of the situation. Now our government finds out yesterday no deal is going to be done on our debt unlike spain so its curtains are far as I can see because the next budget will cause the internal economy to contract further whereas their projections need growth to pay the additional debt being taken on. My initial question is genuine and remains relevant. Thanks for your response.




        • bonbon

          Lenihan was in an elected sovereign government! He betrayed Ireland. He goes down in the dustbin of history with the rest of FF, as FG is about to. If FG sold illusions about dealing with the ECB, it lied point blank.

          Seems there are still apologetics being flung around for the clowns who brought this entire disaster upon us.

          In Athens dare one try such an apologia?

        • Pat Flannery

          Yes Michael I know you are sincere. I too am grappling with the realpolitik of this thing and casting around for an answer. Ireland’s politicians seem to be reduced to the role of EU undertakers.

          I watched Enda last night on Leader’s Questions. It was a frightening display of powerlessness by our politicians and an incredible display of power by the permanent staff at the Department of Finance. Like a lost little boy Enda had to keep repeating the pathetic lone fig leaf the Department of Finance Mandarins allowed him — the ambiguous “undertaking” the 27 EU heads of state gave in June.

          He could not even mention that his bosses at Finance had welcomed the well-placed weasel words of three key EU finance ministers last week. Enda and Noonan knew all along that the June “commitment” was worthless but they went along to keep their jobs.

          At least we now know the harsh reality: that the Department of Finance Mandarins are running the country not our elected Government. So what do we do?

          I’m a Mayoman and have always admired Michael Davitt. I think we need to study his methods. He grappled with a similar realpolitik – the Irish population of 1879 lacked all political power. Or so it seemed. He proved that a population ALWAYS has power.

          We need to resurrect and adapt Davitt’s ideas and methods to our own times. Ghandi said he got his inspiration from him. Maybe we need the 21st Century equivalent of The Land League. Are we ready for a new boycott campaign? Who would be the target? What would Ghandi do in our circumstance? Right now the EU undertakers are lurking, measuring us for our coffin. We need “a plan of campaign”, “a new departure”. Our 1879 forefathers came up with one.

      • bonbon

        So instead of being slowly boiled to death, burn the bond-holders! Well we have plenty who are poised for just that.

        We fought against that laissez-faire (which you precisely identify) after realizing the alternative is extinction. That imperial weapon Smith plagiarized from Ortes and Turgot. The depopulation of 1847 was planned as Trevelyan explained just after. It is now global depopulation with the same weapon that is primed. See my post above on the Global Initiative and the illustrious names sponsoring and attending. I only wonder if someone here attended, after hearing of the swill.

      • whatamess

        “Austerity has reached the point of diminishing returns in Ireland. Any more cuts and the economy will contract exponentially in a death spiral. The Troika will thus have killed their favourite canary.”-Beautifully put !

        “Both assets and liabilities need to be written down, that’s all. It’s a simple matter of double-entry bookkeeping” – i see it as the very same exercise !!

        thanks for posting

        keep the faith

      • whatamess

        “Austerity has reached the point of diminishing returns in Ireland. Any more cuts and the economy will contract exponentially in a death spiral. The Troika will thus have killed their favourite canary.”-Beautifully put !

        “Both assets and liabilities need to be written down, that’s all. It’s a simple matter of double-entry bookkeeping” — i see it as the very same exercise !!

        thanks for posting

        keep the faith

  38. Philip

    Am looking at Spain and Greece. Things are getting dangerously sticky. Japan is shutting down it’s auto manufacture in China – slowing car sales. I know all of this is a bit of a side show at this stage. But you can only ignore this for only so long.

    I think it’s too late. This thing is about to blow and blow badly at a global level.

    Meanwhile, I think FG/Lab are lame ducks – I give them 9 months max, because the whole EU deal has fallen through. Gerry Adams may yet realise his dream as Taoiseach for the 1916 centennial celebrations.

    Maybe the recent brief dalliance with consensus based leadership is drawing to a close. Charismatic leadership with dictatorial mandates may be the order of the day to provide the speed of response to crisis perceived or otherwise.

  39. Press the SHUT DOWN button, REINSTALL, START AGAIN…. sounds familiar?

    Economy is the OS operating system of our societies, currently we are living with the equivalent of a Windows VISTA OS, and the much dreaded BSD, blue screen of death is a regular occurrence.

    As the computer geeks around here will know from experience, at some stage, it makes no sense anymore to continue fixing registries and other little tweaks and twists, but the best advice you can give to the client is to re install from scratch.

    The system is convoluted by useless code that is sucking resources from where they are really needed and beneficial to the overall system health and performance.

    just a thought…

    • bonbon

      Any Linux geek will tell you Win XP will do just about the same thing again after re-install. To stop it click the “start” button! Win VISTA is VIruS inSTAller. The finance-economy is the only machine with a Windows autopilot!

  40. bonbon

    Four-Hour General Strike Shuts Down Greece, Police Attack 50,000 Demonstrators

    Sept. 26, 2012 (EIRNS)–Greek trade unions federations held a general strike today, shutting down the country and bringing up to 100,000 people into Syntagma Square, or Constitution Square, which is in front of the parliament, by 11 am. Participating in the strike are municipal employees and civil servants, staff in state-run public utilities, teachers, doctors, and hospital staff, as well as merchants, lawyers, civil engineers, and bank employees. The tax office, Customs, and Finance Ministry staff launched a three-day strike on the same day.
    Marching through the streets of Athens, the trade unionists were pounding on drums and chanting, “Give us bread, education, and freedom! The dictatorship has not ended!” Some were wearing chains on their ankles to protest austerity measures imposed by the European Union and International Monetary Fund
    “Yesterday, the Spaniards took to the streets; today it’s us, tomorrow the Italians, and the day after — all the people of Europe,” Yiorgos Harisis, a unionist from the ADEDY public-sector trade union confederation told demonstrators, according to Reuters. “With this strike we are sending a strong message to the government and the Troika that the measures will not pass even if voted in Parliament, because the government’s days are numbered.”
    In testimony to the brutality the unionists were protesting against, the media reported that multiple suicides yesterday, in Athens alone, included three women who jumped off their balconies, leaving behind notes that they were driven to take their lives by the hopelessness of their economic conditions.
    Banners were brandished in front of Parliament reading: “The Biggest Traitors in Greek History” and “Close Down the International Monetary Fund, Not the Hospitals.”
    Obviously fearing that the demonstration could swell to hundreds of thousands, as they have in the past, security forces deployed hooded provocateurs to clash with the 3,000 police deployed at the parliament. Using tear gas and violence against the young and old, men and woman alike, the police broke up the demonstrations and cleared the entire square. Videos showed dozens of police guarding the notorious Grand Britannia Hotel which stands across from the Parliament.
    All MPs from the Greek Communist Party and the anti-memorandum Independent Greeks walked out of Parliament in a show of support for the working people.
    While for weeks the government claimed that the budget cuts would be EU11.6 billion, Prime Minister Antonis Samaras and Finance Minister Yannis Stournaras agreed on another EU2 billion in tax increases, bringing the total additional austerity package to EU13.5 billion euros — which, of course, will only worsen matters. [

  41. bonbon

    Scorn Heaped on Obama’s School Lunch Calorie Cap; Michelle Decrees: Let Them Eat Lo-cal

    Sept. 26, 2012 (LPAC)–This Fall, for the first time ever, a rule went into effect for calorie-caps on school lunches receiving funding from the U.S. Agriculture Department. This is in accordance with the Michelle Obama White House royalist decrees for how people should, or should not eat. She and Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack unveiled their program Jan. 25, 2012, calling it, “historic improvements” for the “health and well-being of 32 million kids nationwide” who get school lunches.
    Among their specifications: “limiting calories based on the age of children being served to ensure proper portion size…” along with yak about whole grains, fresh fruits and vegetables, etc.
    According to the interpretation of the School Nutrition Association (SNA), the new rule means than the maximum number of calories a student can have for lunch, in the first through fifth grades, is 650! Other interpretations put it at 850 calories per lunch.
    Whatever the math, the concept itself is venal, and representative of the food policy that the Obama Agriculture Department and the process of partisan politics have together forced on the U.S.: Make people poor, take away all their pride, skills, and mission, then beat on them for being fat, useless eaters, who pursue an `unhealthy lifestyle,’ and who also are becoming too numerous on food stamps.
    The calorie-counting exercise and caps are insane for growing and/or low-income eaters, for whom school lunches may be a key part of their daily intake. Playing sports, having no morning meal, walking to school, doing heavy activity — these are all reasons demanding varying and high calorie-counts for young children.
    School districts, physicians, and social service workers, across the country, are furious. In New York City, for example, where schools receive $400 million from the USDA for lunches, the new Michelle Obama rule jibes with Mayor Bloomberg’s attempts to stiff children by limiting foods. “It is based on politics and personal whims, not nutrition science,” slammed Joel Berg, head of the New York City Coalition Against Hunger. He said of limiting calories, “It is based on the city’s absurd belief that hunger no longer exists among children, despite Federal data that proves that one in four New York City children live in food insecure homes. The City’s one and only response to child hunger is taking food away from kids.”
    In particular, the Michelle calorie-cap insanity is giving Republicans a field-day, but at the same time, each day that Obama is allowed to stay in office means fast-worsening absolute food scarctiy, as well as danger of all-out war.
    The new calorie-cap regulation is to be found on the website, under the Food and Nutrition Services Department, in an 81-page rule, reports Rep. Phil Roe (R-Tenn.) in a press statement today. Roe, who is a physician, opposes the USDA rule on grounds of too much Big Government red-tape. That is true, though it’s far worse.
    Roe, Rep. Steve King, and others are co sponsors of a bill to repeal the USDA calorie-cap rule. Titled, “No Hungry Kids Act” (HR 6418). Meantime, King, from Iowa, is part of the Congressional drive for hands-off corn-ethanol, which is using Big-Government Federal mandates to burn food calories in your gas tank, instead of your stomach.

    • bonbon

      DMcW mentions NY then. Today 1 in 4 NY children are food insecure, and now royalist Michelle Obama limits their main meal!

      To cap the insanity of this, Obama mandates food calories for the car. I sure hope the biomass generators are not sending their tank swill for cow feed. If so we are straight back to swill again.

  42. Tony Brogan

    Bill H today…

    posted at Midas du Metropole.

    What a riot!

    To all; we’ve woken up the last couple of days to protesting and rioting in both Greece and Spain. But who cares? It’s on the other side of the ocean, doesn’t affect us, so like I said…who cares? First off, they are protesting for a reason, the reason being “austerity” and everything that goes along with it. The future holds higher taxes, less free lunches and lower services such as the police responding to your calls.

    Greeks, Spaniards and recently Italians have responded by pulling balances from their banks and moved them to banks in other nations and I am sure some into precious metals. These actions alone have put further pressure on the respective sovereign governments because a failing banking system not only is harmful to the economy but lowers the demand for government bonds which these Ponzi ites live off of.

    When I asked “who cares?”, …you should. You should care because this very same phenomenon will make its way here to American shores. Whether it be because some bank fails in rural Spain and spreads or because our banks have the same, only bigger, problems, it does not matter. Yes I know…but, but what about QE#374? “They’ll never let it happen here” is the refrain and you’re correct…they will try to avoid it. But, I believe that the derivatives markets are so big and so overwhelming that (not to mention intertwined and complicated) that the ultimate collapse will arrive here unannounced and uninvited.

    The U.S. is not immune from the “austerity measures” that are being introduced now in parts of Europe, it is only delayed because we have the reserve currency. Math is math and the math does not and cannot add up here or anywhere for that matter. Pensions, benefits and even “account balances” will be cut and the protests will be on. I can only advise that you foresee this coming and don’t become part of the crowds that will gather in anger because their bacon was taken. Know that it’s coming and prepare for it.

    Plan for as many aspects of your life as you can. As an example (because I believe my own bullshit as they say), I arranged today to store 1 year’s worth of hay for my horse. He has to eat and I will have transportation albeit a little slower than usual when gas doesn’t flow. Please understand that at the core of all of this no matter what you are told is that the money is fake. Banks and the credit that they provide will stop dead in it’s tracks. Distribution of all sorts will be disrupted. THE WORST thing that you can possibly do will be to join in with the angry mobs and protest. It will do no good and only put yourself in harms way. Prepare now, go into hiding later and hopefully we will experience a reset where the “wealth” that you stored in barbarous relics and the their producers will serve you later. I say “hopefully” because in a world that is without “law”, you can have mighty wealth but never get the chance to enjoy the fruits of your labor and intelligence.

    Call me nuts or negative if you like. I am calling it as I see it and I see it as everything is “hollowed out” and will not function. Yes, the PPT can support the equity markets and the central banks can “fund” treasury auctions, this does change the fact that the global financial foundation is cracked and crumbling. “What a riot” will soon have a new meaning…even to Americans. Regards, Bill H.

  43. Tony Brogan

    Those of you that want a correct analysis of what is happening and what to know how to help themselves may be interested enough to invest an hour and listen in.

  44. Tony Brogan

    Some of the cash will be headed to gold and silver

    Panic Cash Withdrawals In Spain Drain Banks; Greece-Style Economic Implosion Now Imminent
    Monday, September 24, 2012 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer

    (NaturalNews) Spain appears poised to become the next Greece in the ongoing European Union (EU) implosion, as Spaniards are withdrawing record amounts of funds from Spanish banks to avoid a potential insolvency situation. According to the New York Times (NYT), the equivalent of $94 billion was withdrawn from Spanish banks in July, an amount that equals seven percent of the country’s overall economic output.

    Though stronger overall compared to Greece in terms of economic diversity and debt levels, Spain is undeniably on a downward economic spiral that is sending many of its people and their money to other countries like England, Germany, and Singapore, where economic conditions are much more favorable. Just like in Greece, there is a growing fear among Spaniards that their nation could revert from the euro to its former currency, pesetas, which would greatly devalue their personal wealth.

    “The macro situation in Spain is getting worse and worse,” said Julio Vildosola to the NYT. Vildosola, a former senior executive at a large multinational company, recently moved all his money – and is now in the process of moving his entire family – to a small village near Cambridge, England. “There is just too much risk. Spain is going to be next after Greece, and I just don’t want to end up holding devalued pesetas.”

    Spaniards pulling out their cash en masse
    Vildosola’s opinion is shared by many others in Spain who are also moving their funds and families elsewhere in anticipation of an eventual collapse. Despite all the empty promises being made by EU officials, including a commitment to inject 100 billion euros into the Spanish banking system, the Spanish people, including many from the country’s upper echelons, have lost faith in their country’s ability to stay afloat in the long term.

    “The wealthy people have already taken their money out,” says Spanish economist Jose Garcia Montalvo about the ongoing capital flight. “Now it’s the professionals and mid-range people who are moving their money to Germany and London. The mood is very, very bad.”

    During the recent festival of “Diada de Catalunya,” or Day of Catalonia, which celebrates the end of the siege on Barcelona during the War of the Spanish Succession, an estimated 1.5 million people took to the streets to demand that Catalonia, a wealthy region of Spain that includes the city of Barcelona, secede from the country and form its own independent state. (

    The European Central Bank recently announced that it will buy short-term bonds from member states that agree to abide by certain rules and conditions when applying for assistance ( But Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has announced his rejection of these conditions, though he has yet to indicate whether or not his country will still request a bailout. (

  45. Tony Brogan

    Another voice for Stagflation.

    Panic Cash Withdrawals In Spain Drain Banks; Greece-Style Economic Implosion Now Imminent
    Monday, September 24, 2012 by: Ethan A. Huff, staff writer

    (NaturalNews) Spain appears poised to become the next Greece in the ongoing European Union (EU) implosion, as Spaniards are withdrawing record amounts of funds from Spanish banks to avoid a potential insolvency situation. According to the New York Times (NYT), the equivalent of $94 billion was withdrawn from Spanish banks in July, an amount that equals seven percent of the country’s overall economic output.

    Though stronger overall compared to Greece in terms of economic diversity and debt levels, Spain is undeniably on a downward economic spiral that is sending many of its people and their money to other countries like England, Germany, and Singapore, where economic conditions are much more favorable. Just like in Greece, there is a growing fear among Spaniards that their nation could revert from the euro to its former currency, pesetas, which would greatly devalue their personal wealth.

    “The macro situation in Spain is getting worse and worse,” said Julio Vildosola to the NYT. Vildosola, a former senior executive at a large multinational company, recently moved all his money – and is now in the process of moving his entire family – to a small village near Cambridge, England. “There is just too much risk. Spain is going to be next after Greece, and I just don’t want to end up holding devalued pesetas.”

    Spaniards pulling out their cash en masse
    Vildosola’s opinion is shared by many others in Spain who are also moving their funds and families elsewhere in anticipation of an eventual collapse. Despite all the empty promises being made by EU officials, including a commitment to inject 100 billion euros into the Spanish banking system, the Spanish people, including many from the country’s upper echelons, have lost faith in their country’s ability to stay afloat in the long term.

    “The wealthy people have already taken their money out,” says Spanish economist Jose Garcia Montalvo about the ongoing capital flight. “Now it’s the professionals and mid-range people who are moving their money to Germany and London. The mood is very, very bad.”

    During the recent festival of “Diada de Catalunya,” or Day of Catalonia, which celebrates the end of the siege on Barcelona during the War of the Spanish Succession, an estimated 1.5 million people took to the streets to demand that Catalonia, a wealthy region of Spain that includes the city of Barcelona, secede from the country and form its own independent state. (

    The European Central Bank recently announced that it will buy short-term bonds from member states that agree to abide by certain rules and conditions when applying for assistance ( But Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has announced his rejection of these conditions, though he has yet to indicate whether or not his country will still request a bailout. (

  46. Tony Brogan

    OOPS sorry did not mean to double post.

  47. Tony Brogan

    Another voice for Stagflation.

    September 26, 2012

    There’s No Engine For Global Growth Pt 3 (the US)

    The following is excerpt from a recent issue of Private Wealth Advisory. In it I outline why the world is entering a stagflationary disaster. To find out more about Private Wealth Advisory and how it can help you crush the market… Click Here!

    In the last few days we’ve assessed how both China and Europe are no longer engines for global growth.

    So what about the US?

    By all counts, the latest ISM (a measure of manufacturing in the US) was a complete and total disaster. In August the ISM hit 49. Anything below 50 is considered a recessionary rating.

    However, things are even worse below the surface. The ISM is made up of several components. Its Production component is back to May 2009 levels. The New Orders component is back to April 2009 levels.

    And worse of all, Prices Paid is up to 54, up from a reading of just 39 in July.

    In simple terms this tells us that inflation is hitting “lift off” in the US at the very same time that we are entering a recession that could be on par with that of 2008. And with corn and soybean prices at or near record highs, we could be on the verge of a stagflationary disaster combined with a food crisis at the very same time.

    We get additional confirmation of a major economic contraction from corporate earnings. Recently we’ve seen earnings forecast cuts from Fed Ex, Bed Bath and Beyond, Proctor and Gamble, Adobe, Starbucks, McDonald’s and more. Indeed, when you remove financials, S&P 500 earnings FELL year over year for 2Q12.

    This is hardly indicative of a strong economy. The fact a record number of Americans are on food stamps doesn’t bode well either. And the Rasmussen Employment Index indicates worker confidence is at levels not seen since the FALL OF 2008!

    All of this, combined with the following:

    1) Median income today is lower than it was during at the end of 2009 (when the recession supposedly ended)

    2) The percentage of Americans on food stamps has increased from 11% to nearly 15%

    3) The average unemployment duration has increased from 30 weeks to nearly 40 weeks

    4) The civilian employment to population ratio hasn’t budged

    5) Industrial production has yet to exceed its former peak (a first in post WW-II “recoveries”)

    And this has happened despite the Fed’s massive intervention in the markets/economy.

    To whit, the US Federal Reserve bought roughly three quarters of all Treasury issuance last year. Let that sink in for a moment. Roughly $0.74 out of every $1 in debt created by the US in 2011 was bought by the US Fed… not by the bond market, not by foreign countries, but by our own Central Bank.

    Despite this massive intervention, the ECRI (which is a much better predictor of recessions than the National Bureau of Economic Research or NBER) believes that the US re-entered a recession in June.

    And this is happening at a time when inflation is soaring due to the Fed’s money printing/ loose monetary policies. Agricultural commodities have risen some 20% since the last recession supposedly “ended.” Over the same time, Oil has risen by nearly $30 per barrel.

    So… the Fed has engaged in record intervention in the market and economy. Despite this, the US “recovery” has in fact been a total dud: we’re officially back in a recession. And inflation is hitting lift off.

    This means the US, like China and Europe, is no longer an engine for global growth. Combined these three regions account for 55% of global GDP.

    Thus, we are in a very frightening situation… that of stagflation: the combination of low or no economic growth combined with higher inflation.

    This is an extremely dangerous combination. And investors need to prepare for it in advance if they want to maintain their portfolios.

    On that note, I’ve recently detailed four special inflation investments designed the profit from stagflation. These are unique investments that will outperform even Gold and Silver as inflation takes off…

    Case in point, two of them are up 8% and 10% last week alone. And I expect all of them to be much higher in the coming months.

    To find out what they are… and take action to prepare yourself and your portfolio to face the coming Inflationary Storm, I highly recommend taking out a subscription to my Private Wealth Advisory newsletter.

    To learn more about Private Wealth Advisory and find out more about our Special Inflation Portfolio comprised of extraordinary inflation hedges that 99% of investors don’t even know about…

    Click Here Now!

    Phoenix Capital Research

  48. Tony Brogan

    Do not invest in paper gold of any kind. Only buy what is delivered to you to hold “in your hand” such as trusted Royal Candian Mint products like the gold and silver Maple Leafs of .9999 pure.

    Fed Floods Market With Fake Gold, The Latest Hurdle For Gold Investors (GLD, SLV, AGQ, IAU, ABX)
    September 25th, 2012

    Dominique de Kevelioc de Bailleul: Tungsten-filled 10-ounce gold bars suddenly have appeared at some of the finest dealers of Manhattan.No doubt, beginner investors who seek to purchase real money, a real asset, the ultimate safety, have had to overcome decades of carefully orchestrated financial propaganda from the Fed, Washington and academia. ‘They’ say, the dollar is good, and gold is just a rock, a silly anachronism and an asset useful only to persecuted WWII-vintage Jews.

    Then, having cleared the propaganda hurdle, the new class of awakened investors have had to somehow research the gold market long enough to maybe run into articles which discuss the accusations of fraud riddled throughout the paper gold aspect of the market and the manipulation scheme perpetrated by JP Morgan.

    What appeared to be an easy way out of the dollar, through a click of a mouse and a few bucks commission on the Scottrade website, may turn out to be more dangerous than holding a debauching currency.

    Enter, stage right, comes Jeff Christian, who assures investors that the paper market is on the up-and-up. The debate between GATA and Jeff Christian kept some investors out of the line to take delivery of real metal, forestalling a bit longer the inevitable and coming stampede into the gold market.

    Was GATA an organization spewing ‘conspiracy theories about a gold cartel?

    Christian, a suspected shill for the gold cartel, argued that GATA was seeing things, imagining dark-hat bankers ripping off the public with un-backed gold ETFs and bogus short sales of the metal in the futures market.

    The case of Andrew Maguire and the CFTC investigation into JP Morgan proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Christian is either a liar, an incompetent or a shill for the Fed.

    Christian leaves the stage and CFTC’s Bart Chilton enters. Chilton, the corn-fed, boy-next-door kind of guy, who grows up to become a heroic fighter of corruption in the financial markets, is the perfect character for the next act to Christian’s ‘Gaslight’ performance.

    And the tangible results of the so-called Eliot Ness of Wall Street? Nothing. Nearly three years after the CFTC hearings and investigation into JP Morgan, Chilton comes up with zip, furthering the con of the U.S. dollar. Chilton is now quiet. He’s done his job for the Fed. He may leave now.

    Now, the poor, confused investor hears that the Fed’s QE-to-infinity policy will further debase the U.S. dollar. Even some of the ‘big boys’ have come out with recommendations to buy gold. PIMCO’s Bill Gross and Bridgewater Associate’s Ray Dalio have gone public recently to counter Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger and Bill Gates, the con-job trio billionaire shills for the Fed.

    Is it time to buy some physical? Even the big boys think it’s a good idea.

    But wait, the circulation of phony gold bars hits the news, and the companies selling the bars are, of course, the most reputable walk-in retailers of New York.

    And the timing of news of the tungsten-filled gold bars couldn’t come at a most fortuitous time for the Fed. The most recent announcement of QE3-to-infinity policy from Bernanke & Company is a downright admission that the U.S. economy is not responding to previous QEs, unprecedented levels of ‘currency swaps’ and a reflation of the over-the-counter derivatives market.

    The Fed needs more help pushing the mob away from gold, because there isn’t enough gold to back all the paper promises saturated throughout the banking system.

    “We’re getting closer and closer to the big disclosure that the banksters have stolen the gold, and now they’re flooding the market with fake gold,” TruNews radio host Rick Wiles tells his listening audience of Sept. 24.

    Is Wiles spreading another ‘conspiracy theory’? Let’s ask Christian what he thinks. Let’s see if Chilton will recommend to the U.S. State Department that it shut down the Chinese company that’s been alleged to have made the phony bars. Let’s see if Warren Buffett has anything to say.

    Related Tickers: SPDR Gold Trust (NYSEARCA:GLD), iShares Silver Trust (NYSEARCA:SLV), ProShares Ultra Silver (NYSEARCA:AGQ), iShares Gold Trust (NYSEARCA:IAU), Barrick Gold Corporation (NYSE).

    By Dominique de Kevelioc de Bailleul From Beacon Equity Research


  49. Tony Brogan

    There is a way out of the financial mess enveloping all countries. It can be done by an act of parliament by a soverereign state. It is outlined here by Hugo Salinas Price and as presented by my self in other shorter statements in this blog.

    Please take the time to read and then study and analize the proposal. It is presented for an English audience in relation to the pound but is adfaptable to any country including Ireland. Infact it will solve the debt problems of the irish state and resolve many of the problems of the indebted Irish citizen.

    Read on

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