September 13, 2012

This exodus of our women is a disturbing new trend

Posted in Irish Independent · 207 comments ·

Port Hedland in the Pilbara mining region of Western Australia is a godforsaken place. Beside the pool tables in the local bar there are mug-shots pasted, like in an American Western, of locals who are barred from the pub for fighting. They are mainly Aboriginals but there are fair few who look like they wouldn’t be out of place here and the surnames suggest this is where they came from way back.

Today, the next wave of Irish — the new emigrants — work in the open cast mines of the Pilbara, driving the enormous diggers that gouge out the iron ore. The ore is then sent to the Chinese port of Ningbo, where it is smelted into steel for China’s once-booming export industry.

The Irish lads working there now are but a small part of the enormous Irish community in Australia. If you find yourself, as I did two years ago, on Bondi Beach, you hear the accent of the Irish exodus. The beach area and Bondi Junction a little further inland were full of young Irish workers. The stories were typical: young professionals, who had been working in Ireland and had been laid off in the boom, were starting over in Australia. They worked in the waterfront bars and cafes of Bondi, getting back on their feet in the hope of rebuilding careers Down Under. Since then the numbers have swelled.

It’s obviously not just Australia: London, Toronto and New York are full of our brothers, cousins, sons and daughters.

With all this renewed talk of turning corners, the IMF telling us that we are fabulous, Mario Draghi stating that we are a model of compliance, we should not forget that on the streets it doesn’t feel like that. Some 76,000 people left this country last year, that’s 1,460 a week or just over 208 people a day. The drain has continued apace this year as the real economy — the one we all work and live in — continues to scrape along the bottom.

Recently, I spoke to the younger brother of a friend and he told me that many of his mates in Dublin were single, not for the want of trying. Initially this puzzled me.

Now I know why. It is because the complexion of emigration has changed dramatically in the recent past. These days you are much more likely to see young women at the airport. At the beginning, the recession was what we could call a “mancession” as the numbers of men laid off on the sites spiked sharply.

Today, we are seeing the feminisation of the downturn. As the recession has broadened, particularly into retail, the number of women on the dole has skyrocketed. Many thousands are heading off.

According to the CSO: “The number of women emigrating increased by 51.8pc in 2011 from 2010, the number of men emigrating fell by 4.4pc in the same period.”

And the women are leaving at younger and younger ages. For example, take the midlands of Ireland, the heartland of the country that has been badly hit by the collapse in house prices and house building.

The number of women between the ages of 20 and 24 fell by 8.7pc between 2010 and 2011. While this is a startling figure, it doesn’t compare to the fall in the young female population of Dublin.

The fall in the population of young people in Dublin is quite shocking. Overall, between 2010 and 2011, the population between 20 and 24 in Dublin has fallen by 11.9pc but the disappearance of young women is startling. The young female population in Dublin fell by 15.1pc last year.

In absolute numbers, the amount of young women in Dublin between the ages of 20-24 fell from 42,000 to 35,400.

Obviously, changes in the birth rate 20-odd years ago have had an impact on this figure, but emigration is playing a huge part.

These trends have enormous implications for the nature of the city in the years ahead. If young Irish women continue to leave in such huge numbers, the country will find itself with a slew of Irish bachelors like we had in the 1960s.

What if they had stayed? What would the country look like and what would the headline economic numbers look like?

Clearly these people — women and men — headed abroad because of unemployment and the collapse in demand in the local economy which provides the lion’s share of our jobs.

When you consider what the rate of unemployment would be if they had stayed while the local economy remained paralysed, it is easy to see that the bullish statements from the Government this week ring hollow.

For example, the unemployment rate for young women aged between 15 and 24 right now is 22.8pc. Had their friends not headed to the likes of Bondi Junction in the past year, this unemployment rate figure would be 35pc. This is at Great Depression levels.

For young men, the figures are more worrying because the level of unemployment among young men in the 15 to 24-year age group is so high already.

Today, the rate of unemployment for young men is 36.8pc. This figure would leap to 45.4pc had the 15,000 young lads in this group not emigrated and stayed out of work here last year.

For the older age group, between 25 and 44, female unemployment would go from 11pc to 14pc had there been no emigration. For men in the same age cohort, the rate of unemployment would go up from 18pc now to 20.3pc.

This is what is happening on the ground in Ireland: people are leaving in droves.

But the gradual arrival of a slowdown in the global economy may cut off the traditional exit route from a stricken Ireland.

When this happens, it will take more than an IMF-inspired ‘think-in’ to come up with ideas for real change to get us out of this mess.

  1. molly

    Yes David yes this is the system and the cover up, things here are not improving they are getting worse .
    The way the country is being run is a shambles , run by a government way out of its depth.
    Run by a bunch of fools who dress well, live well at our expense .
    The proof of this will be the budget , this tuff budget will be the lowering of the coffin into the grave.
    We are being fed lie after lie yes there are some people out there who think the government are doing a good job, the only reason they think this is because they have not suffered enought yet or are well covered.
    How many of these people have had family or friends who have left this country?
    Take off your blind folds and wake up,

  2. Juanjo R

    Sorry, the increasing exodus of women now is more disturbing trend than the earlier exit of in the main men?

    What is the point of all of this?

    And did Enda Kenny, that Noonan fella who in the main run the Irish economy not tell us it was all a lifestyle choice anyway?

    This while Ireland is bled try just mainly to feed incompetent bankers and assorted fat cats?

    Or did I miss something?

  3. Johno

    My wife is a nurse and was only telling me recently that 90% of the nurse who are training at the moment will not get a job in the hospital where they are training. And of the few who will get offered a job it will be a temp position more or less part time hours. Without sounding like a sexist pig but the majority of nurse’s are woman and as my wife said the majority will head to Australia and maybe the UK. We are training nurse to export them at the moment.

    • All the irish nurses go to Australia and all the Philippino nurses come to Ireland.

      It’s the great population swap!!!

      A polish colleague said there should be limits on emigration, that all things being equal natives should get first refusal on jobs. He also mentioned that poles are being undercut by Ukrainians back in Poland…thus perpetuating their replacement and forced emigration.

      This is all a concerted effort to replace native’s natural resistance to the EUSSR….divide and conquer.

  4. molly

    Good morning David well done yet again.
    Can you please explain how Ireland is meeting it’s targets with the imf .
    The hole thing seams like a cover up ,it’s as if we are using borrowed money to prop up the books in a sence make us look better than we really are?

    • Concise

      I’m big DMc fan. Sorry t b gloomy but read “This time it’s different”. It’s a really simple statement of where we’re going. Unfortunatly, based on what Gov’t ministers say, they don’t realise these salient facts. So,obviously, we’re f**k+d.

      • Forget it and become a Big Mac fan instead. Feed your closest the same. It will make you happier and turn your brains more stupid than than they already is. Now piss off and be a good little consoomer. The rest of us have a country to save

    • As one of the heroic self employed who are ‘keeping the country alive’ you don’t sound too bright Moll

      Spelling and grammar are primary five level and frankly you sound like an imbecile

      You think you are above public servants and immigrants but frankly you are are another statistic that proves that the Irish education system is a farce that turns out dimwits

      Unless you have another explanation for such piss poor spelling and grammar

      Or is it just the money honey

      • molly

        You dont need a good education to be self employed my grammar and spelling are poor but at leased I try to get my point across.
        And I did employ five people and manage to pay there wages and pay my tax and vat ect on time I even have a C2.
        You are a nasty bully and need to cop on.


    Having visited a no of people in various Dublin hospitals over the past yr, I am astounded by how many foreigners (performing a variety of functions) they employ, yet our own med grads are emigrating in droves. Another hangover from our open door immigration policy. Why hire a school leaver or grad when you can get an experinced foreigner for less ? America doesn’t have an open labour market with Canada/Mexico . Smart move !!!!!!In the eighties, women complained of a male shortage in Dublin nightcloubs .LOL.

    • JamesGaffney

      I spoke to some young medical graduates recently and they said the conditions, financial and otherwise, are so much worse in Irish hospitals, making it so hard to pay off enormous medical school loans, that a lot of Irish medical graduates weigh up their options and find they can do the same job with better conditions elsewhere and end up jumping ship.

  6. michaelcoughlan

    Well dome for an excellent article.

    The more articles of this type which humanise what is happening the better. I think that the answer to the problem of too many young people idle when china crashes will be to mobilise the army and control them that way ie in it’s ranks. The other point to observe is that if so many people keep leaving will the state ultimately fail?


    • bonbon

      China has already 700 million below the UN poverty line. Only on the coarst do you see audi’s.

      China is far ahead, and knows the Arctic is where to be. Korea too. Ireland is right across the pole and gues where the new development will be?

      FG needs a compass. Look North you Eurocentrics. The fascination with the fawning lure of Brussels is a swindle!

  7. ChickP

    But on an upside the single female 30 somethings that can’t leave because they’re tied to negative equity mortgages can now get a toy boy (or 2) to make them a bit happier about their lot.

    • molly

      The female 30 somethings are leaving and a lot have left and are renting there over priced houses and its helping them to pay there telephone number mortgages and there not realy allowed to do this but you have to do what you have to to survive .
      I would imagine what there getting in rent would not cover the mortgage and they are having to prop up the payments themselves .
      What a mess the whole thing is and if it was me I would give the keys back and walk away.
      Look at all the money the government got in stamp duty,boy how they squandered that money and the party is still going on for the select ones.

  8. Lord Jimbo

    Irish women go out but women are also coming to Ireland (unless all those cited to have entered last year are men, which is clearly absurd).

    Ireland was full of hot air during the Celtic Tiger, fine it has some American IT multinationals, a bit of this and a bit of that.

    At the end of the day, it is a very small country, small population, small economy which is now even smaller, so what are qualified, young people who want to live going to do, as they say ‘the fundamentals are definitely not ok’.

    • bonbon

      Re-orient the compass. The Arctic is now open for business. The Mediterranean will have its own Marshall Plan soon, but Ireland, small, like Korea, has a new frontier.

  9. Clear Eyes

    We are governed by very imcompetant people – we always have been since “Independence” . Government is mainly made up of primary and secondary school teachers who are “on leave” ( hanging on to old job) and who have absolutely no business sense. Emigration , yet again , is draining the lifeblood out of Ireland and young Women going abroad is hardly a surprise.Public Servants and Politicians think that they can continue to put thier hands more deeply into our pockets through taxes and “charges” to ensure thier salaries , perks , pensions and expenses continue to be paid. They have absolutely no concept of how to run anything.

  10. Great stuff. We are humans and not robots. Glad you gave the banks a rest today.

    You should write more about Ireland and how it’s people are faring under this economic occupation

  11. Debasement of Irish Citizenship

    The real tragedy in all this includes the disenfranchisement of all those that leave our shores and their inaccessibility to be able to vote in foreign lands while at the same time more foreigners are replacing those lost votes in their places upon their nationalisation to The STATE.

    The STATE does not hearthen to ‘ The People of Ireland’ . Instead appellations are given of us as ‘the electorate ‘ , ‘the tax payer’ , ‘the social welfare applicant ‘ , ‘the parent’ etc . It is consistently in adversary position to the welfare of its citizens.

    Where are OUR CITIZENS ???????

    • Irish Men and Irish Women come ye forth and be The Citizens of Your Country . And do so NOW.

    • Yes john,
      you are aware of the population replacement….it’s racist to point it out, we are all being manipulated. The foreigner’s hearts are surely broken having to leave their beloved lands like our own are seeing our friends and families leaving our shores again for the uptennth time.

      The foreigner does not love this country, he/she is here for oppertunity and survival….they won’t be interested in voting on EU matters or domestic politics…thus with a diminishing interested population the opposition to fascism/ communist/ totalitarianism is reduced in xxxland (xxx=soct, eng, po, ire etc. )

      • not racist I meant….oops.

      • Colin

        There is no rhyme or reason to loving your country. You love your family, neighbours and community. Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. I’ve never waved a tricolour – the ones we made at school were corrupted tricolours, with gold replacing orange to deny the representation of the other tradition living on this island. My country couldn’t provide me with employment, so why would I love that? I had to leave, and I’m glad I had to. And when I return, people are envious of my success, even though I am modest about it.

        • Adam Byrne

          Well said Colin, loving your country is a load of bollox. It’s a pure scam.

          Family, friends, neighbours and community, that’s the ticket, if everyone did that we wouldn’t need countries with their disgusting borders and passports.

          • Adam Byrne

            Pauldiv is not a tosser though Colin! I beg to differ on that one! But he should definitely apologize to Molly, that was out of order.

  12. Adelaide

    By pointing the finger at the political body, the church, the bankers and whoever else is in the queue is in reality pointing the finger at ourselves.

    In my mind they all come from the general populace and share the same psyche. They are indicative of the general citizenry because they too are citizens. Fashioned from the same fabric of society.

    Nobody screwed up, we all screwed up. And those who didn’t partake in the screw-up also screwed up by sitting on their hands. We are all adults on a small island and the sad truth is we screwed each other.

    That is why there are no mass demonstrations.
    Who would we be picketing, ourselves?

    • padser

      Totally agree….but our only defence, is that the politician’s are supposed to be there to stop that from happening, what ever about the ruling party, the opposition parties should be held in as equal contempt.

      That means an overhaul of the political system.

    • Clear Eyes

      I do not buy the “We all partied” line ( Brian Lenihan) – We depended upon certain people who were paid big bucks to ensure certain things did not happen ( Regulator , Chief of Central Bank , Ministers for Finance , CEO’s of Banks etc …) These people plainly failed to do thier jobs properly – “Groupthink” was the excuse put forward at the time.No , Millions of people here are suffering the consequences of a relatively small number of people’s massive bungling and greed.

      • bonbon

        “Groupthink” or going-along-to-get-along, goes much deeper than most are willing to face. That is why the swindle of “shock and awe” money printing holds sway. The swindle is based on the inane, mental illness, that dead capital of what ever form, will spontaneously emerge good things for the economy in a totally mystical unknowable effusion.

        This utter insanity is “groupthink”. A cover for a mental illness. Extreme cases such as Draghi, Bernanke, Blair, need the rubber room immediately. Less stricken semi comatose can be helped with humor. How could anyone believe a rabbit would pop out of a hat?

      • +1
        Groupthink was the downfall.

      • dwalsh

        Clear Eyes….clear sight

    • Hang on, one thing is clear from the last few years, the government gives people the information it wants to give them. Therefore the average person was making decisions based on a limited and carefully selected subset of the facts. This does not absolve them of responsibility, but in apportioning responsibility the government and their cronies deserve the bulk. I did not party, I was prudent, but only because I am innately mistrusting of authority and the information they spoon feed to us.

  13. Mark Walsh

    How to defeat the Eloquent Insiders?

    “In my youth, I, too, entertained some illusions; but I soon recovered from them. The great orators who rule the assemblies by the brilliancy of their eloquence are in general men of the most mediocre political talents: they should not be opposed in their own way; for they have always more noisy words at command than you. Their eloquence should be opposed by a serious and logical argument; their strength lies in vagueness; they should be brought back to the reality of facts; practical arguments destroy them. In the council, there were men possessed of much more eloquence than I was: I always defeated them by this simple argument; two and two makes four.”


    • bonbon

      Well the Russians and Prussians taught that master arithmetician a little lesson at Borodino. He went to Moscow with 250,000 men from all over Europe, and was forced to count the dead on the way back.

      The only reason Napoleon got power was not 2+2=4 ! What a liar. It was because Robespierre beheaded the Polytechnic, scientists writers! Others were exiled. No one was left!
      That’s a liar, dictator, at work. Sounds just like the practical Draghi, Monti, Enda. Except in this case people have volunteered for a mental vacuum.

      • padser

        Don’t forget the recent revelation about Hitler, executing the 22,000 Polish Academic’s – whose addition if not slaughtered would have given the Pol’s the obvious advantage they needed in the war.

        • bonbon

          Hitler, the Golem, went to Paris, and first to Napoleon’s Mausoleum, where he declared “Mein Vorgänger”, my predecessor. That is well known. He then said he will roll back history to before 1783 – the Treaty of Paris after Washington and Lafayette defeated the British Empire.

          Unfortunately for Poland today, they do not realize good relations with Russia are priority number 1. This is changing, as the Moscow Patriarch and the Polish Church exchanged Madonna icons this summer, a major breakthrough. However placing Obama’s missiles at the Russian border, as Putin remarked when Romney’s “Russia number 1 problem” came out, is extremely bad for Polish political-economics. Dancing the Obama and Bush tune, is very bad music indeed.

          • Poland is placed in the most precarious of places…..right between Germany and Russia, surely they are masters of keeping both sides sweet.

          • bonbon

            Not by playing with Obama’s ABM’s right on their border. Very bad foreign policy, a bit like Ukrain’s Orange Revolution, paid for by George Soros.

            Sure there is bad history, so why court it again?

      • Mark Walsh


        Cool your historical jets…

        The reason for the quote was not to give Napoleon the thumbs up or thumbs down per se.

        He simply highlighted the problems with Assemblies that we face today.

        We need NOT go headlong into furious debate with our politicians (on both sides of the Dail) for this only plays right into their strong hand, namely, eloquent bullshit.

        Rather, we should lay down mathematical facts with these self-serving imbeciles that are, by proxy, “yes-voting” us turkeys for Christmas.

        Mathematical facts trump their silver-spooned opaque oratory skills and never go off point with these disgusting people.

        Of course this raises the questions of how, where and which forum?

        Has anyone noticed that the likes of DMcW and Morgan Kelly and others have not been on any RTE current affairs programs of note lately?

        In their stead we are treated to a bunch of ‘yes-men’. The dissenting voices have been muzzled.

        Democracy? My ass.

        If I were a betting man I would posit that Morgan Kelly has been told by his state sponsored employers to take a big cold shot of “shut-the-fuck-up” unless he wants to see his tenure trashed.

        • We’re bought and sold for gold
          Such a Parcel of Rogues in a Nation

          • bonbon

            Franklin, “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

            All nations are now targeted for erasure. Russia will defend sovereignty with all its capabilities if necessary.

            Some very odd characters have dreams of that !glorious” past, the empire.

        • bonbon

          My point still stands, the liar only got in power because of the Terror killing off the entire educated strata.

          We have President Higgins directly challenge that Tiger anti-intellectual public opinion. I would go farther and say exactly that twitching, jerking irrationality got us to where we are.

          Sure the economy is doing fine, look at all that house production! And the new roads! All the bothreens have a 80kmh speed limit now you know! Before they had none!

          • Mark Walsh


            My name is Mark Walsh.

            You do not have the balls to reveal your name.

            Shame on you.

            If you can’t man-up, state your name, like I and others have done, then you’re just noise and a troll.

            Your comments are simply invalid and troll until you MAN-UP.

          • To Mark. Don’t take trolls seroiusly.

          • Seems from reading your posts over the while that no-one cares what you think. Except the gullible

            You are associated with extreme ideals and don’t use your own name. A troll or a plant i’d guess. Now please blow or stay if you wish to be torn to shreds. Come ahead

            Facts and not opinions please. Just to get the ball rolling wink

          • bonbon

            Extremists are the Troika, the mad Draghi, the insane Bernank, and the psycopathic Obama (who just cannot get rid of that moustache). Add to that the extreme liberal shrugging off of every constitution in Europe, and the USA.

            Keep yer eye on the ball, lad.

      • It was more like 440,000

        The amazing infographic at the link below charts how they perished.

        • bonbon

          Very nice pic. Anyway about 78,000 died at Borodino, and the 250,000 could have been the non-French in the Grande Armee. It was the IFOR model!

          Today at Aachen, the historic capital of Europe,, Charlemagne’s, there is a 2m tall painting of both Napoleon and Josephine in the Rathous. They have doled out the Karls Medal to unbelievable characters such as Blair.

          • Very nice pic?

            It’s a classic piece of graphic design and an early example of what we now call information graphics.

            I take it that the temperature scale at the bottom of the chart escaped your notice.

            The key to the destruction of Napoleoan’s army lies in the plummeting temperatures on the long march home.

          • Look at the graphic. It was 440,000 and not 250,000.
            You are not listening

          • bonbon

            Graphics and statistics. The key to Napoleons defeat, long before them mere mop up at Waterloo, was the calculated delay first by harassment, then the burnt earth Moscow strategy, all timed for winter. The Armee turned back to their previously looted region, to starve and freeze. This was planned very carefully by certain leading Prussians in alliance with Russia. It worked,
            with enormous losses.

            Seems to me the Troika has met it’s Borodino at Athens, with huge cost to the population. Now where will the Waterloo be? Madrid, Rome, Paris?

            As to the numbers of the Grande Armee, it was the IFOR of the time, at least half were not French, rather Bavarian etc. None of those ever came back.

    • Concise

      Good quote Mark, and true. The problem is that our eloquent insiders, though teachers all,neither know nor care that the numbers of our economy do not stack up. What they do know is that, TD’s salary + pension+county councillors expenses +termination bonus+expenses+ministerial salary + ministerial pension + teachers pension + any kickbacks they may have been able to deliver mean that they will be well equiped to ride out the coming turbulence. Europe will recover, due to their inherent diligence. We Irish will be back in the 50′s, think Argentina, perhaps Peru.

    • dwalsh

      Napoleon’s best arguments were usually won with artillery.

  14. padser

    I think we are witnessing a displacement. Jobs that may traditionally have been occupied by a certain class are now being filled by Chinese, Pakistani national’s – both male & female….who in my experience from working in England, predominately occupy employment in the retail sector. Moreover, I rarely ever seen Chinese, Pakistani’s, working in Construction! It’s unfortunate, but at least by’ our children emigrating, they may realise their full potential in life, elsewhere!

  15. Adam Byrne

    Movement of Jah People.

  16. padser


    “But the gradual arrival of a slowdown in the global economy may cut off the traditional exit route from a stricken Ireland.”

    Maybe the people emigrating from Ireland are not leaving for ‘economical’ advantage….but seeking a country that practice’s it’s core value’s and respect’s it’s people!

    • bonbon

      The wave peaks as the economy collapses. Refusal to build up the economy is the highest disrespect of all, and for the next generation.

      What we are seeing is the cull in action, a cull openly promoted by certain public figures. Pull the physical economy out from under 7 billion people and commit genocide. Emigration is is a mad dash to escape the cull, but as DMcW clearly says the rest of the world is going into collapse.

      Do we want another Gorta Mor? I mean big. 5-6 billion?

      It is a matter of life and death to suddenly get to grips with with economics, real not monetaristic insanity.

      • padser

        “Emigration is is a mad dash to escape the cull, but as DMcW clearly says the rest of the world is going into collapse.”

        I kind of get what your saying…but it’s a bit cryptic!
        On the other hand, I think this global economic ‘crisis’ was conceived…..out of a sort of ‘necessity’ a means to an end if you like!

        Four odd years on now and I have not seen any sign of a meltdown. I have seen, so far, something that amount’s to no more than, a well rehearsed ‘fire drill’! Nobody has died, no one has gone to prison, business as usual in the financial sector, FF are still in Government. To me, it’s all playing out quite nicely. Europe is going to get it’s “Superstate” status it has long yearned for, the USA get’s to go back to the “Gold Standard” and let it happen all over again, China get’s it’s recognition as “Global Innovator’s” status it once was many century’s ago, and some interest on the capital they lent.

        There has merely been a basis created, for another 50 or a 100 years of economic servitude.

        What fire? What collapse?

        • bonbon

          That POV is pure Tiger, caused by the complete separation, removal of production from the “economy”.

          When one measures the physical economy, hard and soft, per capita, per sq km, there is a shocking collapse underway since the 1970′s, a collapse brought on by the very same financial policies now causing compete chaos. What the mainstream and other media just cannot deall with. The collapse was literally papered over with derivatives, and that has reached the point now of pure hyperinflation, raiding of deposits, the ESM.

          Forcing a U.S.E with chaos is hardly going to work. It will have the exact opposite effect. Napoleon tried it.

          Most cannot even look 3 months, not even to the election, and you mention 50 years! Incredible foresight!

          Forget the Tiger crystal ball, its lights went out.

          Look at what relative potential population density means when energy, food, services are removed – it falls rapidly, meaning genocide on a scale that would crack the crystal ball.

          • padser

            Admittedly, all are intertwined, probably what prompted G6, G8 in mid 70′s. I assume they know as much as you too. Granted, there has to be a form of casualty. Predicting a “cull”, with the logic you have presented is disturbing. Unfortunately, your argument would have to be realised in full to have merit. My argument although, not as logically prepared as your’s actually hold’s the same premise – “a means to an end”. Both argument’s could result in anything happening! My argument about Europe becoming a superstate, is more qualified because (as you said yourself), Churchill mooted it as many of the other Founding Father’s of “the EU”.

            There has been for many decade a ‘manifest destiny’ feel about federalism in Europe or the ‘creeping federalism’ sense.
            There maybe a ‘creeping cull’…but who is pushing for it, is a bit vague!

          • bonbon

            Churchill, an avid Hitler supporter with Beaverbrooke, Halifax, and the King, until directly threatened by a German speaking fascist superstate, ran to FDR begging for help. As Elliot Roosevelt wrote, FDR made 1 condition, end colonialism. Well we got Truman, the bombs, and Britain went on unmoved. Thus we have their original policy, the policy to roll history back to before 1783, Treaty of Paris, as their Golem said at Paris. Nation-states to be eradicated from the history books, and Empire in their place, again. This is not vague at all. Now add in numerous public figures openly calling for population reduction, perfectly well knowing nation-states with a commitment to progress, economics, general welfare raised the population and longevity. Blair’s logic is thus to destroy the nation-state, leaving genocide to occur on “its own”. To understand this means to grasp what “relative potential population density” means at an economic situation. People focus on money as the very means of survival is being ripped from under. Gold coins swinging for the bedazzled, as mass murder is brutally pushed.

      • Concise

        bonbon, the Gorta mor was just a local little famine, all over Europe the people were dancing,socialising,composing,painting and carousing, just as we did during our little Celtic Tiger phase while people starved in Africa. It’s just nature where the fittest(greediest) survive. It has always been thus. It is why WAWWA. (we are where we are). An te nach bhfuil laidir ni folair do bheith glic!! Sometimes this necessitates an exit to healthier climes and let the field to the bigger bull.

        • bonbon

          An Gorta Mor was calculated culling. When Eire deals with the implications of this, it will not be possible to fool people.

          Now listen to WWF founder Prince Philip – population reduction! Dr. Schellnhuber (Merkel’s “science” advisor) 1-2 billion and total decarbonization.

          It is spoken openly, it is policy, and unexpected quarters “go-along-to-get-along” to Hell.

          • Larouche are wankers. Fact. We all know it

            I have friends on here who will tear you to shreds if I call on their support. They see right through you

            Take your little brigade and piss off to Gruinard Island. You are a pathetic addition to the debate and completely off the wall

            I will be watching the likes you and rising the red flag next time you are talking nonsense

            Then again it would not be difficult for a hacker to listen in 24/7 and find out what you little shits are plotting. Now bloody well piss off and make up with your father

          • Bully boy. No wonder people want you to vanish.

          • bonbon

            Sorry lad, but your darling Prince wants to cull us all. Maybe you included. That’s the truth of Britain’s problem. Now they have their running boy, Obama, poised with thermonuclar weapons to go after Russia. Britain nor anywhere else would survive that.
            Your attempt at “psychopathy” faded near Obama and Prince Philip. Their sheer genocidal lust makes most appear rather amateur.

            We, a small Island and a smaller number willing to fight, as usual for Ireland, will speak out. It seems OWS are afraid, and most marchers. They are tolerated.

            We will annoy the elites with Glass-Steagall, and by pointing very publicly to their population reduction statements and strategies.

            That’s free speech. Some run too Tir na n’Og, but will find those policies waiting for them.

          • Actually. You sound like a total nutcase old chap.

          • padser


            The ‘Atlantic Charter’ wasn’t even signed – no mention of “ending colonialism” and just cos Elliot Roosevelt wrote it, means jack…. it makes for good reading though, to a certain audience.

            Many a Statesman admired Hitler for his sentiment…..but wouldn’t have been as mad. I heard it said that if Hitler, had succeeded with his ‘master plan’ he had a fate for each nation – and that he was going to “work the Irish to death”…….well’ the Brit’s tried it and they failed! But sure’ I’ll give you this…. the EU & IMF seem to be trying it with ‘austerity’.

            It’s easy for any person to state what may or may not happen on the current curve that mankind is taking and admittedly we take a lot for granted – we are not over ‘pro-active’ but mankind does react relatively well in a crisis.

            The UN has said that possibly 10 Billion population by 2100 which would then level-off and to 16 Billion by 2300, which granted would be breaking point for the earth to sustain.

            They have also stated that measure’s would be envisaged in the future, not unlike in China’s ‘one child’ rule and that ‘poverty’ ironically is a determining factor of over-population, Eg. certain part’s of Africa, albeit with a lower life expectancy. So, I suppose trying to increase the standard’s of living & life expectancy is, ditto….thus’ I prefer the latter.

            Most of what you say, may well be true’ and “culling” has been around for thousands of years in one form or other. But, it’s tautological…. qualifying your theory of global genocide on ‘words’ that are unsubstantiated or ambiguous.

            If it happens for that reason…at least die knowing, we played our part!

          • bonbon

            At Argentia, Newfoundland, on Aug. 13 and 14, 1941, at the discussions of the famous Atlantic Charter, Elliot Roosevelt’s “As He saw it”, documents the meeting with Churchill, and the color of his face when FDR stated that 1 condition. “Yes. I can’t believe that we can fight a war against fascist slavery, and at the same time not work to free people all over the world from a backward colonial policy.” FDR as you know died suddenly, letting Truman undo almost everything with the bombs on Japan.

            “Sustainability” as an argument for genocide is itself simply criminally incompetent bankrupt economics. Remember Sir Henry Kissinger’s NSSM 200, a recipe for genocide for over 30 years, now publicly available. A repeat of this on a massive scale simply cannot be tolerated, nor avoided.

            In fact this crops up in the mainstream economic “suggestions” all the time, and is the revealing fallacy of composition. We find for example both Keynes and Fischer, ostensible opposites, as directors of the British and American Eugenics Societies resp.

      • Dilly

        The establishment here are following the 1980′s blueprint to save the vested interests. I dont think it will work this time, because so much has changed, the world has moved on where Ireland has not.

  17. Deco

    A form of societal collapse in motion.

    There is something highly disfunctional in the Irish labour market.

    Young women have different lifestyle expectations to young men. Maybe they are not too enthusiastic about the negativity, the new taxes, and the general grind that has become the Irish Labour market. Women do not waste much time in an unhappy situation, and make tracks. Men on the other hand have a tendency to fight out their corner, before then packing it in.

    • bonbon

      Just wait for when those women have young children abroad. What do you think will happen?

      According to your arithmetic, no one fights?

      What complete nonsense. And utter negativity!

      A lot of peoples “expectations” were completely silly considering what popular opinion dictated – buy houses, two! Time for all to take political economics seriously, not lemming runs.

    • Concise

      “Women do not waste much time in an unhappy situation, and make tracks”. Good observation Deco and this is what ensures the survival of the species, culture, family etc. If left to men, esp the raggy heads we would all be standing on a smoking ruin, but we would have our pride!!!!

    • Bollocks. Ireland has many women living miserable lives behind close doors and always has done. We all know it.

  18. bonbon

    To help readjust the compass of lost Irish sea-farers, this is essential :

    Sept. 12, 2012 (LPAC)—South Korean President Lee Myung-bak and
    Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg held summit talks in
    Oslo, Norway, and signed a memorandum of understanding pledging
    to help shipping firms of their nations open new sea lanes over
    the Arctic. “Prime Minister Stoltenberg and I agreed to forge a
    future-oriented partnership aimed at tackling climate change and
    environment-friendly development and preservation of the Arctic,
    in order to proactively deal with tasks of the 21st Century,” Lee
    said. (South Korea is notable for talking “green”, but then going
    ahead with actual development.)

  19. bonbon

    Court Gives Hint: Exit from Euro Would Solve the Problem

    Sept. 13, 2012 (EIRNS)–A second look at the 85-page text of the German constitutional court’s ruling of yesterday reveals what none (!) of the mainstream media mention in their coverage of the ruling: the justices gave a hint, actually, at the very end of the text, as to where the solution to all the euro-related problems lies: namely in the exit of Germany from both the (Lisbon Treaty) European Union and from the euro.

    Should Germany end its membership in both institutions, the court states, all risks and liabilities from that membership would be invalidated. And the court states that it is standard practice in international law that an exit from any treaty is always possible if all signatory members agree, and it is even possible in special situations if no other member agrees (!).

    This is not what the court recommends, but it is implied in what it has stated and written down in its ruling. And it is exactly what Germany should do, instead of continuing to walk on this downhill and hyperinflationary road, BueSo party chairwoman Helga Zepp-LaRouche tells Germany in a special post-ruling video message.

  20. Tony Brogan

    Mining commodities and agriculture is the place to be.
    Ireland for food production and related tech industries.Austalia and Canada for food production and mining

    Stagflation coming

    • bonbon

      There will be jobs at your mine and your plantation – sure $1 a day and some gruel would be fine in that brave new world of the few.

      Is that the best the Austrian School can come up with. There is a serious case of mental capital bankruptcy there at that school. I fact the very same bankruptcy as Bernanke and Draghi show and will produce.

  21. John Q. Public

    There are less unemployed Irish people here than you think. David fails to mention what % of our unemployed are non-Irish. The non-Irish unemployed won’t emigrate, they will stay and take all the benefits.

    • molly

      Yes a lot of the so call none Irish think they have won the lotto the social well fair lotto.

    • More wind from yourself and Molly the Dolly.
      Stop blowing hot air and give us the numbers and your sources.

    • Spill it. What is the percentages and where are the links to your sources. John Q Ignorant

      Otherwise you are pissing in the wind and sound like you are motivated through a blind notion of the wholesomeness of fair maidens at crossroads in the moonlight. It was all a dream in Dev’s twisted mind and you were conned since birth

      Numbers and sources. Please!

      The non Irish will stay put. What else would you expect them to do. They are not as stupid as you think

      Especially since they suspect that all kind of secret flights have been passing over Irish airspace since3 9/11. You thick ignorant shyte

  22. molly

    Have I got this right the government can’t touch crow park but they want to hammer the very people who are going to pay for it in the private sector.
    So the government want to steel of me and you to prop up a system that favours people in the public sector.

  23. paulpr

    It’s been a few years, but I could have used a few colleens when I lived in Port Hedland, many years ago. Back then, the ratio of men to women was 5:1, and the women that were there were no oil paintings. Mind you, nether were the men. A combination of heat, flies, dust and heavy drinking puts years on people up there. But they’ve definitely earned their coin in the last 5 years. Now, like all good things, that time is coming to an end. It looks like Fortescue Metals (Australia’s third largest iron ore exporter) is about to collapse, and all iron ore and coal miners will be getting a little bit nervous-if they’re not, then they should be. Just 2 months ago the government gave themselves a report card that painted a rosy picture about how well they are doing.
    Never has that ½ year report been so irrelevant just 2 months later as we watch the coal and iron-ore price tank every day. With the strong dollar and the high cost of doing business here, the prices are approaching break-even for many mines and I expect to see some closing their gates in the next 12 months. It also means the government revenue is going to tank pretty soon, and then things get interesting. At the moment the price of gold looks ok, so my work is safe, (for the moment).

  24. coldblow

    Another good article. David has been consistent throughout.

    I posted this quote a few years ago ( from Joe Lee’s History of Ireland):

    “Emigration was not unique to Ireland. But the type of emigration, the scale of emigration, and the impact of emigration were. In no other European country was emigration so essential a prerequisite for the preservation of the nature of the society. The interests of the possessing classes came to pivot crucially around emigration. But as the spread of emigration during the nineteenth century chanced to coincide with the growth of national political consciousness, with emphasis on the family as the source of social virtue in society, and with the decline of population, it came to be felt as a shaming indictment. But indictment of what? British malevolence, or landlord tyranny, could be conveniently, and to some extent correctly, blamed for the dispersion of families in the immediate aftermath of the famine. But that explanation began to lose force after 1880 once the land legislation put the axe to the root of landlordism. And it became wholly untenable after independence. Not even the eager hibernian imagination was prepared to adopt so robustly simple an interpretation as that of the TD who felt able to assert “without fear of contradiction” that “The main cause of that emigration, of all the poverty, and of anything else that is wrong politically, nationally and economically with the country is due to the partition of Ireland”. No other society found itself obliged to rationalise so remorselessly the subversion of the national and family ideals inherent in the emigration “solution” to the problem of social structure.

    “The psychic impact of emigration on those who stayed, the price paid by the society for the subterfuge to which it had to resort to preserve its self-respect while scattering its children has only begun to be explored… It would be unnatural for any society enduring the traumas of nineteenth-century Ireland, including not only colonisation, but famine, depopulation, language loss and religious revival, not to have developed protective layers of ambiguity. Yet paradoxically this was simultaneously a society that had apparently come close to social and equilibrium by 1900, however precariously poised that equilibrium might be. The complacent bourgeoisie – haute, moyenne, petit or lumpen according to social and semantic taste — that emerged as the ultimate beneficiary of the post-famine settlement, had no urge to linger unduly on the implications of emigration. It naturally turned to the manufacture of ideologies of communal solidarity that shifted the onus of responsibility from itself to somebody — anybody — else. When the British government and the landlords had largely served their purpose in this regard, preachers, publicans and journalists began purporting to find the anxiety of emigrants, and especially of girls, to leave Ireland, increasingly incomprehensible. By the early twentieth-century they had all but completed their communal self-portrait of a simple, natural, warm, homogenous society, a veritable miracle of human and Christian harmony.”

    “…The mandarins, the bankers and the gombeen men may as well have lived in a different country from their victims. However blandly they might rationalise the experience that relieved the pressure on themselves to improve their performance, however opportunistically they might blame the victim for their plight, however frequently the emigrants might return as travel conditions improved, indeed however individually liberating emigration may in fact have proven (in itself, a sad reflection on the “imponderable values and liberties of our traditional society”), the emigration figures for the forties and fifties stand as a permanent commentary on the collective calibre of the possessing classes. In one respect only did they display true talent. So effectively did they master the techniques of indoctrination that many of the victims would continue to cherish the values responsible for their own plight.”

    And, “linked in” and also seeing as yesterday was St Patrick’s Day, here’s his summary of the Irish self image (worth an extended quote some time):
    “The self-image of “traditional” Ireland was, it may be suggested, characterised less by hypocrisy than by self-deception on a heroic scale. It was this that gave it such enormous emotional power, and could achieve such resonance even among those who might be objectively regarded as the victims… The self-portrait of traditional Ireland was a work of art, a triumph of imagination, will power and technique over refractory raw material… Traditional Ireland worshipped its authorised self-portrait with an idolatrous fervour. All peoples need their public myths. But all public myths are not equally mythical. Not all feel the same need to disguise so much of the truth as had the traditional Irish one.”

    • Colin

      Sorry to nit pick, but we were neither colonised nor conquered. We were part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. We elected and sent MPs to Westminster. To this day, in London, even the Republic of Ireland is viewed as a ‘Home’ nation, like Scotland and Wales. This is done in a ‘parity of esteem’ way, to borrow from John Hume. Basically, to cut a long story short, the English like us a lot.

      • padser

        Kate Middleton’s melon’s are gonna change that!

      • bonbon

        Sure they loved us in 1846 too, with all that genocide going on. And they loved us in 1921 as well.

        Loved to death.

        The Troika loves us today, posterboys, and Enda is almost as lovable as Romney’s Irish American sidekick, Paul Ryan.

        Prince Philip and co-thinkers are so concerned about the human population now that reducing it to 1-2 billion soon is a caring attitude for all to embrace, lovingly. Sure Al Gore has also that charismatic concern for the people.

        Bettelheim syndrome anybody?

      • coldblow

        Hi Colin

        Not only was Ireland the first and most thoroughly colonized country it was also subject to settlement by the conqueror. This happened nowhere else in Europe, not even the Teutonic Knights did this in Eastern Europe as far as I know. What the ordinary Englishman thinks of the Irish is another matter.

        • Colin

          We chose to give up Gaelic, in order to improve opportunities both at home and abroad. Science was not written in Gaelic, so for example, to become an engineer, a native Gaelic speaker would have had to learn English. But if you were happy working the field, then you need not have gone to the trouble.

          We kept our own religion and customs, and strongly resisted Protestantism, even at the cost of remaining in poverty.

  25. coldblow

    And here’s one from Breandán Ó hEithir’s “The Begrudger’s Guide to Irish Politics” (1986:

    “Despite the little bits of bother, particularly that Northern business that did not seem to be going away, the country was not doing badly at all. With almost no strenuous effort emigration, the greatest bulling cow scandal of them all, no longer existed. Every week the Irish Post, voice of the Irish in Britain, was full of advertisements for properties in Ireland and for the removal companies which would transport all you had back to booming Mary Horan’s country. Many of those who returned had plundered the land of their temporary adoption to the point of no return and with taxmen snapping at their heels they came home to find out how soft a touch the auld sod was. They found the auld sod wide open. With the right connections you could site your pile of utterly vulgar concrete on a hairpin bend and get away with it. Only the Irish Post, in its more non-profitmaking pages, cautioned that there might be more froth than porter in glass the Emerald Isle was offering….

    “It is now time to face hard facts, At some time in the not too distant future you will be called on to vote in a general election. Since Fianna Fáil’s Great Rate Robbery of 1977 we have had a series of “Put Them Out”, “Put Them In” elections. In most of them, apart from the Hunger Strike election, minor scandals, gossip and questions of personality seemed to shoulder serious questions off the stage. This is one reason, dear reader, why the present crisis was half-way up the leg of your trousers before you really knew about it. Readers of the works of Mr James Joyce will ifnd the present situation in Ireland curiously reminiscent of the political scene in Dublin at the turn of the century, as portrayed in many of his works. RTE must take its share of the blame for this preoccupation with the trivia of politics: a true Trivial Pursuit which it failed to patent. Many political writers must take the blame… for getting personally involved in a bogus moral crusade which was little more than dressing up petty political gossip…

    “Even a begrudger can feel shame. The thought of being ruled by a confraternity of goms, the majority of whom should never have been “let out”, is a sobering one; the fact that they are freely elected by people vastly more intelligent than themselves is shattering. For it must be admitted that we are better than that when given a chance; even half a chance…”

    • I read them Coldblow. Good reading. Im sad that no-one else did and didn’t think to comment. Maybe people are getting more doped and poised by the day. Apathy is raging?

  26. coldblow

    And while I’m with it I can’t leave out Raymond Crotty (Ireland In Crisis (c1985) whose opening line is, I think, “This book was written for the plain people of Ireland”):

    “An era now appears to be ending in the metropolitan West. The capital-less, proletariat class, which has been the product of factory capitalism, can no longer earn a living by their labour. This appears to be due to the combination of (1) the ending of capitalist colonialism and of the export of metropolitan unemployment to the colonies; (2) an increasing inflow of products from non-western, non-colonized Japan, Korea, Taiwan and also from Hong Kong and Singapore; and (3) labour-substituting automation. Western countries, where incomes are high and populations are stable or declining, have begun to adjust to this new situation, principally by income transfers from the holders of property and jobs to the propertyless and jobless. This involves a major extension of state welfare services. It is an adjustment that recognises implicitly the impossibility, in the post-colonial era, even under conditions of static or declining labour supply, of large sections of the population securing a livelihood on grounds other than their contribution to GNP. It marks a repeal of the key, individualistic, millennia-old ordinance, ‘thou shalt earn thine bread by the sweat of thy brow.’

    “It is futile to imagine that Ireland, which has failed to provide a livelihood for half its population throughout the era of factory capitalism — when the world’s workforce increased fourfold and Ireland’s declined by two-thirds — provide employment for all its people. The limitations of preserving jobs in Ireland by curbing wages — ‘incomes policy’ — were brutally demonstrated in the 1840s when wages dropped below the subsistence level, workers starved, and the number at work collapsed (Chapter 4). The limitations on preserving jobs in Ireland by public debt expansion have been reached after nearly 40 years of public borrowing. Other stratagems, such as ‘job sharing’ or the IDA’s inducing foreign firms to locate enclave industries here at great cost to indigenous, integrated industries, are more likely to cause accelerated job decline that to provide new jobs (Chapter 6). One of the results of the Whitakerian-Geraldine era is a system of taxation that raises the cost of labour to its users to over four times what the supplier receives (Chapter 7).”

    “Not only is it futile for Ireland to attempt to create jobs for all its people; it is incongruous that it should contemplate doing so, especially now when the western world is adjusting to the need to distribute wealth on different principles..Ireland’s preoccupation with job creation is indicative of an utter failure to grasp the nature of the social, economic and political problems confronting the country. Under the socio-economic order that exists in all former capitalist colonies, there is no possibility of achieving anything like full employment. There is, under that socio-economic order, no possibility of providing a livelihood for all the people in Ireland, any more than in the other former capitalist colonies.

    “Under a different socio-economic order, where development had replaced undevelopment, employment creation would cease to be a policy objective. The over-reaching policy objective of the socio-economic order proposed would be the efficient use of land, capital and labour in order to secure the largest possible output of goods and services; and the distribution of that output in the most equitable manner possible. That would of necessity involved the reintegration into society of the landless, jobless masses that everywhere in the Third World are the enduring consequence of capitalist colonialism. That policy objective, which implies the ending of unemployment, is very different from creating jobs. Creating jobs is a policy that appeals to the idle rich, who believe that the devil finds work for the idle hands of the poor; and to the incorrigibly unimaginative who can perceive no greater attainment in life than their own success in securing permanent, pensionable and usually utterly unproductive employment.

    “GNP, under the proposed changes, would be maximized by charging users the full economic cost, but no more than that, for land, capital and labour. The difference between the amount produced and the amount needed to secure the required supply of factors of production — which is the social surplus — would be distributed equally be means of a national dividend to all resident citizens. That arrangement would, in Ireland’s case, effectively reintegrate into society the landless, jobless masses, who formerly emigrated and who no comprise the country’s burgeoning unemployed. That arrangement would end unemployment and make emigration unnecessary.

    “The proposals that have been made here, that are specifically designed to end undevelopment and concurrent unemployment, would also cause an increase in employment. However, that would be quite incidental to, and would in no sense be an objective of, the measures proposed. More work, like more savings or higher prices (and their corollaries, less leisure and lower consumption) can be warranted only in so far as they make possible higher consumption now, or less work and/or higher future consumption. The measures proposed [the steepest poss. taxes on land and bank interest, paring back of State and consequently of taxes, introduction of a universal national citizen's dividend, abolition of barriers to various employments subject to suitable qualifications etc] would, however, reduce greatly the supply price of labour, which is now in surplus.

    “Demand for labour would be increased at the same time as its supply price would be reduced. The various fiscal and redistributive measures proposed, by increasing the demand for goods and especially for services, would increase also the demand for labour. Taxing land and other government-created monopolies would force into retirement or semi-retirement many who are now unable to operate efficiently the land and capital they control, which would make these resources available for operation by more competent, and generally, younger people. Both bank and land taxes would have the effect of redistributing the bank credit. Banks now optimize by lending to owners of property, the value of which is increasing because of the banks’ inflationary increase in the money supply. Bank taxes would remove the banks’ existing incentive to expand inflationarily the money supply, which now increases property values. Land taxes would simultaneously appropriate for society the value of landed property. Just as a land tax forces landholders either to use it effectively or to surrender it to those who can do so, a bank tax would force banks either into liquidation or to lend money to those able to pay the highest interest on it and therefore able to make the best use of it. These people would, again, for the most part be young, virile, able persons, possessing little or no capital or land and therefore best able to use both capital and land productively This redistribution of the nation’s savings would add very much to the demand for labour.

    “The simultaneous reduction in the cost of, and increase in demand for, labour will transform the status of the individual supplier of labour from that which has obtained in Ireland since the sixteenth century Tudor conquest. The individual, by the fact of being a member of society, will share in the substantial portion of the total product of that society that properly accrues to society: the social surplus. Thereafter he will be free to contribute to the total product, by ‘deferred gratification’ or working, increasing by individual effort both the portion of the product that properly accrues to him as a return for his labour and savings; and portion that properly accrues, through increased land values, banking and other monopoly profits, to society. Unemployment will cease also in the sense that there will be no unemployment benefits or assistance, paid conditional on the citizen doing no work. The citizen’s national dividend will be paid unconditionally and will be uninfluenced by income from other sources, including employment.

    “It does not follow from the above that employment will increase. It probably will; though it may not. Citizens in receipt of a national dividend, when given the choice of increasing their incomes by working or saving more, may choose to work and/or save more. Alternatively, they may choose to work and/or save less. Giving people the option of increasing their incomes by working more implies terminating unemployment; for unemployment means denying the people the opportunity to secure even a moderate income by working. The critically important policy objective is the abolition of unemployment so that people should have the option of increasing a basic income by working. How people exercise that option is irrelevant, at least from a national policy viewpoint. Providing employment, or job creation, is an irrational policy objective.”

    • bonbon

      Admirable in some ways, Crotty, but I do not see an inkling of New Deal, massive project and financing thinking. And I am especially not looking for Keynesian hints.

      So far I see no evidence Crotty ever read Arthur Griffith’s clear expose of the utter bankruptcy of British economics. He does go after Bankers and Ranchers, very pointedly, yet does not propose any development mission for the economy. Thus I begin to think he expects “spontaneous emerging” economics, from some kind of monetary policy. British economics again.

      Counterpose Alexander Hamilton’s approach, taken up by the reconstruction finance Corp of FDR. This is the way to deal with an agro-monetary dead-end. Let that agrarian “elite” apply for credit at the Glas-Steagall’d zombie bankes, and provide an RFC for a huge development commitment including modern agriculture.

      This is what Arthur Griffith pointed to. A direct, clear anti-imperial policy with mission oriented intervention for the future. Only this will reverse what Crotty describes yet seems unable to muster resistance to.

      • coldblow

        Hi bonbon

        I see your point. Crotty focussed specifically on the colonial legacy and drew parallels with the other ex-colonies across the globe who he saw as ‘undeveloping’. (He was a self-taught economist and agricultural expert as well as an (also self-taught) farmer.) But all this in turn is caught up in the crisis facing the developed world, which require their own solutions.

        However he can’t muster any resistance seeing as he is dead. However, he did a good bit in his time, notably taking a Supreme Court case against the govt’s attempt to steamroller the Single European Act through and forced a referendum.

  27. John Q. Public

    With our brightest leaving the country and the dullest staying, it’s going to be a dark country in which to live. The poorest and least educated along with the immigrants are having the most kids, this combined with an ageing population will lead to a problematic and challenging future for all of society in the EU.

    • Really.

      Do you have figures?

    • It could be a bright and progressive country that leads by example if we all decide to change. Our fate is in our hands. Ireland is watched on a global scale and always has been. This country is ripe to start a revolution that could bring western bullies to their senses

      Poverty and education are not semantically compatible. To place them in the same sentence is absurd. Some of our brightest people grew up in poverty

      This fact renders your opinion null and void

  28. coldblow

    David, your article reminds me of a piece by the Dutch travel writer Carolijn Visser (Brandend Zout, 1986). She visited the opal mines at Coober Pedy and spoke to a Lithuanian immigrant called Crocodile Harry who left the Northern Territories when crocodile hunting was outlawed and turned to mining.

    Anyway, in another part here is here description of an Outback café (bar??):

    “The carpark in front of the café was full of autos but there were also patrons arriving by fot. A group of Aborigines had appeared out of the wilderness and entered the cafe before us. There we found pandemonium.

    The crowd of more or less bare men had obviously knocked back a whole lot of beer. Quinn looked round and took stock. “I reckon it’s not long since there was a a ‘blue’” He meant that there had just been a fight. A man at the bar wearing a big hat confirmed that that had indeed been the case. But now things had quietened down again he assured us.

    Quiet? In an adjoining room a group of young men, including a giant Aborigine, were playing pool. The shouted and climbed on each other’s backs. At frequent intervals they came in for ‘bundies’ from the bar…”

    • Hi Coldblow,

      I spent a few days up there in the wilds. Very strage landscape and very strage feeling to the place The mug shots of the lads barred were quite freaky, the pool tables a bit tatty, but the beer was cool and at 90 odd degrees, quite welcome.



  29. Grey Fox

    I believe the figures hide a huge additional segment of the population both male and female who are just over the threshold of 46 years old, in particular in relation to Australia, I for one would have been gone but for this! So as such the feeling that at the mid to late forties so many people will be consigned to the scarpheap as unemployable/ too old etc is rampant, this is just one other issue which never gets into the mainstream media discussion but affects a huge amount of people, after all we can’t all drive taxi’s, work in B&Q or McDonalds….

    • molly

      The figures show what the government want us to see in today’s super quick computers a flick of the mouse should give all that data,they have the info you will get the crap this system won’t talk to that system.
      It the cops can tell weather your car is taxed or insured just by having the little computer in the car,why can’t one department in one government talk to another department,because of the RED TAPE now multiply that by the way everything is done in this country and what you end up with is RED TAPE gone bonkers.

  30. At least two people in the IMF have had a ‘think-in’. They recently published ‘The Chicago Plan Revisited’ which promotes full reserve banking as a solution to the crisis.

    It’s well worth a read as it describes the problems of allowing private banks to create the national money supply before going into the benefits of publicly created money.

    • bonbon

      Care to debate it here?

    • bonbon

      That document, of the Chacago School today, does mention FDR and their petitioning. Seems to me FDR declined their offer and went with Glass-Steagall, the Reconstruction Finance Corp, and the New Deal. That economy defeated fascism then mainly because it had rapidly grown. The RFC financed the Tennessee Valey Authority electrification, which was influenced by FDR’s knowledge of the Shannon Scheme here.

      I’m afraid that Milton Friedman’s Chicago School is responsible for the policies of Pinochet, lauded by Maggie Thatcher then.

      No surprise the IMF is influenced by this.

        • Mark Walsh

          At least David McWilliams, Tony Brogan and myself put our names front and centre…..what’s your need for anonymity?


          Who are you?

          Don’t you have the balls of your convictions?

          • Mark Walsh

            Further, I will slam your comments until you come out of your personal closet.

            You have no balls nor basis.

            For all intents and purposes you could be a simpleton agitator.

            Indeed, Molly, a most frequent asker of great and poignant questions, has more validity than your rants.

            So, bonbon, why don’t you either take a big cold shot of shut the fuck up until you grow a pair of balls or be a man/woman state your true name.

            Does this prospect frighten you?

          • He is a troll. Stop feeding him and stop being bait. Talk to people you know and use the 3+3=6 argument. It’s common sense. Anything else is just prejudice and self opinionated bs. Man up.

          • bonbon

            From Tam O’Shanter as he pauses before Kirk.alloway

            Warlocks and witches in a dance;
            Nae cotillion brent-new frae France,
            But hornpipes, jigs strathspeys, and reels,
            Put life and mettle in their heels.
            A winnock-bunker in the east,

            There sat auld Nick, in shape o’ beast;
            A towzie tyke, black, grim, and large,
            To gie them music was his charge:

            He scre’d the pipes and gart them skirl,
            Till roof and rafters a’ did dirl.–
            It seems someone here is playing “auld Nick” :-)

      • bonbon

        Read the document posted, as the poster recommended. It can be discussed. My point is accurate. FDR declined the gracious offer, it appears to me, and went with a program that worked and worked very well.

        I, graciously, decline the offer to go with any Milton Friedman Chicago School, suggestions.

        We, should, with respect, decline any attempt to bring Pinochet policies to Ireland.

        So let’s debate the document point for point?

        Has anyone got the courage?

    • bonbon

      Correct me if I am wrong, but by page 5, it seems clear this is a revival of Irving Fisher’s “celebrated” economics. The Preface attempts to distance the IMF from this paper, maybe because of this? :

      “The stock market crash of 1929 and the subsequent Great Depression cost Fisher much of his personal wealth and academic reputation. He famously predicted, three days before the crash, “Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau.” Irving Fisher stated on October 21 that the market was “only shaking out of the lunatic fringe” and went on to explain why he felt the prices still had not caught up with their real value and should go much higher. On Wednesday, October 23, he announced in a banker’s meeting “security values in most instances were not inflated.” For months after the Crash, he continued to assure investors that a recovery was just around the corner. Once the Great Depression was in full force, he did warn that the ongoing drastic deflation was the cause of the disastrous cascading insolvencies then plaguing the American economy because deflation increased the real value of debts fixed in dollar terms. Fisher was so discredited by his 1929 pronouncements and by the failure of a firm he had started that few people took notice of his “debt-deflation” analysis of the Depression…”

      It gets even worse: In 1912 Fisher also became a member of the scientific advisory to the Eugenics Record Office and was the first president of the American Eugenics Society. Baron Maynard Keynes was Director of the British Eugenics Society.

      Oxford trained Thomas Palley, who in 2002 and 2003, was the head of the Globalization Reform Project at Soros’s Open Society Institute, wrote that the greatest American economist was Irving Fisher (1867-1947), who brought the Austrian “marginalist” school into the mainstream of American economics, and pioneered such gems of modern incompetence as the Phillips Curve and the indifference curve. The website of the New School for Social Research reports of Fisher: “His fortune was lost and his reputation was severely marred by the 1929 Wall Street crash, when just days before the crash, he was reassuring investors that stock prices were not overinflated but, rather, had achieved a new, permanent plateau.” Sound familiar?

      So we have the Phillips Curve and the Indifference Curve is some “modern” form”. I think that is worth looking into…

      • StephenKenny

        Sometimes, I think you do it on purpose. Fisher said that the ‘Chicago Plan’ had 4 beneficial features:

        1. Preventing banks from creating their own funds during credit booms, and then destroying these funds during
        subsequent contractions, would allow for a much better control of credit cycles, which were perceived to be the major source of business cycle fluctuations.

        2. 100% reserve backing would completely eliminate bank runs.

        3. Allowing the government to issue money directly at zero interest, rather than borrowing that same money from banks at interest, would lead to a reduction in the interest burden on government finances and to a dramatic reduction of (net) government debt, given that irredeemable government-issued money represents equity in the commonwealth rather than debt.

        4. Given that money creation would no longer require the simultaneous creation of mostly private debts
        on bank balance sheets, the economy could see a dramatic reduction not only of government debt but also of private debt levels.

        Being unable to create their own funds would, effectively, destroy so-called ‘investment banking’ anyway. Without leverage and the government bind markets, they’d be left with helping real companies raise money – not something that would keep them in private aeroplanes very long.

        As far as I can seem Glass-Steagall would become irrelevant if this was all enacted, and, most importantly, actually enforced.

        So he made a bad call on the 1929 stock market? Doesn’t make him wrong on the preferred structure of the financial system.

        Bonbon, if you don’t mind me saying, sometimes you write like a high street religious evangelist might speak. And for someone who is as interesting and well informed as you clearly are, it’s surprising.

        • bonbon

          Fisher said all this to FDR, who simply, as far as I know, declined, and went with the plan that actually worked. I said that up front. The idea of Glass-Steagall did not come from that school, and the same plan from them cannot work, either today. In fact it was never in practice. We know what worked. We have full details and results. We know what caused the Great Depression, and we know how FDR’s sudden game-changer was a stroke of genius. Fisher was wrong, no only about 1929 and that was sheer incompetence itself, but wron grom the very get-go : an insane, wild-eyed, belief in monetarism. That is what FDR countered with the Reconstruction Finance Corp., Hamiltonian National Credit in action for the world to see.
          The IMF must know all this, after all they are paid tax-free to study with all their might. So the deafining silence on what actually worked, is a study in ideology itself. It is amusing actually to see these studious writhe, “distancing” themselves from Fisher.
          Why is it that Keynes, whose tome with a German preface stating only a totalitarian state could implement his ideas, and Fisher, declined by FDR who defeated totalitarianism, both were Eugenics Society top directors?

          Try dry academic “logic” if you must, then answer that.

        • bonbon

          What is surprising is the “innocent” economic priesthood making suggestions for others to carry through, never thinking through what “administrative changes” would be necessary to put those hints into action. Pinochet put the Chicago School priesthood’s innocent suggestions into action, the only way those could in fact be implemented. Let the priesthood wring hands denouncing Pinochet completely. This is exactly the same as leading Keynesian Abba Lerner in 1971 Queens College, sputtering out to the shock of attendees, “But if Germany had accepted Schacht’s policies, Hitler would not have been necessary.”
          Any statesman who is presented with such petitions must examine what it must take to implement them, what would be done or not done in the face of clear needs. The choice of action then determines the truth of those petitions.
          We need right now a massive development program orders of magnitude beyond the New Deal. This is the context that such IMF “distanced” petitions arrive on any statesman’s table. So 25-30 years large scale programs, with a form of National Credit such as the RFC or Germany’s KfW will be the only way if the IMF sticks to Keynes or Fisher, which they likely would.

        • bonbon

          To put it briefly, the IMF “distancing” itself from fascist economics, is doomed.

          Fascist economics cannot be separated from fascist politics.

  31. wills

    There are women everywhere at my local tennis club {all ages and shapes and varieties]

  32. It’s still a grand country. 188 a week without getting out of bed and being hassled by the goms … Can’t be bad wee man. If someone was offering 400 a week clear then that would be a reason to get shaved and out the door every morning right?

    We are all foreigners now. Foreigners in our own country and foreigners if we travel to the next county. It’s all the fault of the foreigner

    Foreigners are a disease. An abomination not to be tolerated. Auschwitz the fuckers right? Plenty of Irish would agree but a true Irish soul would condemn and be disgusted with such animals. The animals we have on these shores are the worst of the worst

    I propose a football club to identify the poor downtrodden private sector irish. Molly United

    I propose that such a football club be started as a charity (for the first two years) and that Dermott the Great shall be given first refusal after the initial two year period and be allowed to rape the club for at least 100 years. Following in the paddy tradition of course

    I put this motion to the forum with immediate effect

  33. bonbon

    German President Signs ESM Treaty before Amendments Are Ready!

    Sept. 14 (EIRNS)–The only logical interpretation of the German Constitutional Court’s ruling of two days ago, is that the European Stability Mechanism treaty is not fully ratified and therefore can’t go into effect, before the amendments which the court requested have been added to the document. But the EU, the German government, and German President Joachim Gauck are still trying to pretend that nothing really happened in the court: Gauck signed the ESM ratification yesterday, without the amendments. And Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble does not even want the Bundestag to convene and debate the court ruling and the amendments, claiming that everything is already in the treaty, and that the amendments are just appendices of a technical nature which don’t need parliamentary approval.

    The EU, the government, and the President of Germany, want the ESM to begin its work in October, and pretend that it will be sufficient to have the amendments later on. Not only is this another serious slap in the face to the Bundestag, but also to the court, which–limited as it may be–made the point in several passages of its ruling that the parliament’s rights must be reaffirmed and written by the government into the ESM treaty. The treaty is in fact not legally ratified without the amendments, and the court should revoke Gauck’s signature right away. And the Bundestag should convene for an emergency session to force the government to deliver what the court told it to do.

  34. bonbon

    World-Class Loser Jamie Dimon Pronounces Glass-Steagall “Stupid”

    Sept. 14 (LPAC)–Calls for Glass-Steagall re-enactment are very useful; so, occasionally, is a denunciation of it from the right person.
    Jamie Dimon, the investment banker and JPMorgan Chase head at the center of the MFGlobal and Lehman collapse scandals and an attempt to rig the world derivatives trade by his own bank’s London office, thinks a Glass-Steagall return would be “stupid.” Dimon knows from stupid. In fact, he is world-class in it, as in everything else.
    On Sept. 11, at a forum organized by Barclays Capital (!), Dimon was asked about returning to Glass Steagall and breaking up the large banks. He answered,

    “There are huge benefits to size. JPMorgan’s size allowed it to be a port in the storm during the market turmoil of 2008. Big banks have a function in society. The United States has the best, widest, deepest, and most transparent capital markets in the world. Lets make sure we keep that before we do a bunch of stupid stuff that destroys that.”

    Just ask Jefferson County, Alabama, for example, about those transparent capital markets JPMorgan Chase is running.

  35. bonbon

    MITT ROMNEY PREVIEWED HIS DEBATES ARGUMENT on “Good Morning America” on Sept. 14: “What Bernanke’s doing is saying that what the President’s saying is wrong. The President’s saying the economy’s making progress, coming back. Bernanke’s saying, ‘No, it’s not. I’ve got to print more money.’”

    Well That goes for Draghi too!!!

  36. bonbon

    Portuguese Leave Homeland; Seek Jobs in Angola, Mozambique, Brazil

    Aug. 9, 2012 (EIRNS)–According to a new statistical report, about 150,000 jobless Portuguese who have lost any hope of finding employment in their own country again, have, since March 2011, left Portugal to make a living abroad. Many of them are well-qualified, and during the emigration waves of the 1970s and 1980s, would have gone to Germany or France. But now, they are going to the former colonies Angola and Mozambique, as well as to Brazil.

    Such mass exportation of its population is actually official government policy. Last December, Portuguese Prime Minister Pedro Passos Coelho suggested that unemployed teachers should go ahead and emigrate to Angola, or Mozambique, or Brazil. That statement set off a wave of protests around the slogan: “Mr. Prime Minister: {You} emigrate!”

    The situation in Portugal, cynically applauded by the austerity-obsessed “Troika”, is certain to worsen, since the conservative government is determined to cut even more in the budgets, and to increase more taxes and payments for the citizens. The VAT was increased from 11 to 23 percent already, extra working hours and the loss of four holidays annually for those that still have a job have been decreed; “flexibility” clauses for the labor market have made jobs that in former times were considered safe, unsafe; the official jobless rate is 15 percent and would be much higher, were the emigrating citizens added, naturally. Extra fees to be paid by patients to doctors for special medical treatment have been increased to 20 euros per treatment. Medicine co-payments are also cutting into the household budgets. Pensioners suffer cuts as well. The combined net loss in GDP during 2011 and 2012 will be almost five percent.

  37. bonbon

    Hunger Gets Nasty in Spain

    August 9, 2012 (EIRNS)–The Andaluz Workers Union (SAT) deployed several dozen members en masse to two supermarkets this week in Andalucia, the region with the highest unemployment in Spain, to carry out “forceful expropriations” of basic food items to be delivered to local charities and food banks. The first operation, near Seville, was elaborately planned, led by a United Left-linked local mayor, and succeeded, with nine shopping carts full of milk, pasta, rice, vegetables, sugar, oil, etc., taken away without paying. The second attempt was made in a town in the Cadiz mountains region where unemployment is officially 40%, and a different mayor also participated.

    The actions shook Spain. The government arrested two SAT union leaders for theft and harassement, but leading IU parliamentarian Gaspar Llamazares called the operations “a symbolic gesture…. Right now, were seeing things that surprise, hurt and outrage us, so if this was because of a dramatic situation, to help people who are in need, even the penal code justifies it.”
    Organizers say more supermarket raids will occur. An article on the SAT union website reports, that according to UNICEF, 17.1% of Spanish children live under the poverty line; that “Action Against Hunger” charges one quarter — 25% — of all Spain’s children are malnourished; and two million Spaniards ate from the 67 million kilos of food sent by the European Commission this year.
    Such outbreaks are occurring before the full force of the new austerity measures hit on September 1st. Included in the coming package is the cancellation of the program providing monthly support for the long term unemployed. It appears the Rajoy government began implementing those cuts early. The Labor Ministry said that the 400-Euro monthly handout had not been made available to 200,000 beneficiaries in July or at the beginning of August, due to “an administrative problem.”

    • whatamess

      those ‘tough’ decisions will NEVER be made to the degree of intensity necessary, to get us across the proverbial finishing line…that’s very defeatist of me i know…

      Bonbon,you sure get whole lot of ‘stick’ here on DMW,but I hope you continue to post …..

  38. bonbon

    As DMcW wrote “But the gradual arrival of a slowdown in the global economy may cut off the traditional exit route from a stricken Ireland.

    When this happens, it will take more than an IMF-inspired ‘think-in’ to come up with ideas for real change to get us out of this mess.”

    He is quite right and the reason as I try to show above is the dominant “thinking” of that IMF is, well, bankrupt. Now any other “think-in” that promotes the policies of that IMF must be checked, as I tried above, for fatal flaws before exactly the same intellectual bankruptcy dooms the economy.

  39. bonbon

    German Constitutional Court plans public hearing on ECB

    The fact that the public and juridical debate on ESM and ECB is not over after the Sept. 12 ruling of the German constitutional court against injunctions, is shown by the announcement made by the judges that they will have a public hearing on the ECB’s role in the near future. It has to be noted that the court threw out a petition by anti-ESM plaintiff Karl Albrecht Schachtschneider requesting that the court deal with the ECB issue, about half a year ago. It is also the first time that the German court takes up a matter which most experts believe belongs to the European Court of Justice.

    The new announcement does not imply, however, that the court has changed its view on the issue as such, or that it is going to do so, but it tells that the political situation has changed to such an extent that a public hearing on the ECB is considered necessary now. Therefore: just keep up the heat, to force the issue!

    In the wake of the Sept. 12 ruling, Schachtschneider reiterated by the way that for him, ESM and Fiscal Pact are the new “enabling laws” for EU dictatorship, comparable to those laws that sealed Hitler’s grab of power in Germany, after the Reichstag Fire set-up in 1933.

    Wilhelm Hankel, another prominent plaintiff along with Schachtschneider, commented on the ruling sarcastically that it is “almost irrelevant” in respect to the German government’s and the Eurocrats’ jubilant assessment, because “once the printing press is turned on, a state is inevitably heading for default…the euro cannot survive.”

    • bonbon

      To implement policies of the ESM, stemming from innocent economic theories, fascist politics is the only way.

      For the economic priesthood to distance themselves as evidenced above, where politicians must carry out the suggestions, is exactly the behavior of Prof. Abba Lerner, cited above : if Germany has accepted austerity, Hitler would not have been necessary!!

      This time they have the Enabling Laws up front. Neither Keynes not Austrian/Chicago School “theories” can function without a Hitler, or a Pinochet, respectively.

      It is much better to act as FDR did, with a New Deal, or many, rejecting both Keynes and Fisher, massive projects that need doing, and a Reconstruction Finance Corp. model such as the KfW – Kreditanstalt für Wiederaufbau of Germany’s Reconstruction (Marshall Plan). And of course the Glass-Steagall bank mopping up.

  40. joe sod

    I just returned from some time in canada, by and large the biggest demand is for construction trades and welders, i met young graduantes who are working in constuction and hospitality, this is. where the jobs are , also the work is in the remote areas where canadians dont want to work, so i think the big demand in both canada and australia is for young men with trade skills willing to work in remote areas, another thing i noticed which you dont see that much in ireland is women working on building sites and driving trucks etc. I dont think the emmigration to australia or canada is permanent firstly because of the sky high price of property, also the widely predicted bust in australia, also because of the difficulty in getting residency, i think the emmigration is temporary basically young people going to australia or canada on working holiday visas, alot of them go to canada after completing 2 years in australia, so even though they are not in ireland they are not really in any other country either, they are like modern gypsies

  41. molly

    David could please do a article on the pensions in Ireland as the figures look very bleak and there’s going to be a lot of very un happy people out there ,who where expecting a certain amount and there’s going to be a hell of a short fall.

  42. padser

    What’s this shite in the SINDO about Teacher’s been imposed with a “Forty Hour Week”….every teacher anecdotally say’s, they work more than that anyway!

    Enda Kenny say’s: “If we can’t touch their money, we’ll make them work longer hour’s”!

    It may not be much of a shock to the Teacher’s cos, they knew this would be first contention, regard’s CPD review.

    Also, OECD report say’s they are the “fourth” highest paid Teacher’s in the “world”…..not even taking in to account all of their benefit’s!

    • padser


      How many of those ‘females’ leaving the country are Teacher’s? That’s right….zero! And why ever should they?

      The notion used to be, “the less time you spent working or the poorer, you were”, that you were going to have a bigger family (more children).

      Teacher’s (Union’s) are putting that to rest…..An untamperable high wage with CPD and “TWENTY SIX WEEK’S …”PAID”… MATERNITY LEAVE” + the statutory Sixteen weeks unpaid option.

      Of the 26 weeks ML 6 can be taken pre-birth (just happens to be around the “total” Private Sector norm) and if the ML coincides with the summer holidays….they can claim back ‘four’ of the weeks in lieu. (WHY) They get their holiday’s paid anyway?

      Where is the ‘increased productivity’ mandate in the CPD for that?

      One child = No problem at all!…..take the year off!

    • bonbon

      Before some stampede in that direction starts look at what happened :


      Sept. 16 (LPAC)–A Wisconsin State Circuit Court Judge ruled Sept. 14 that elements of Gov. Scott Walker’s fascist 2011 anti-collective bargaining law violate both the State and Federal Constitutions, and are thereby null and void. The ruling, by Dane County Circuit Judge Juan Colas, came in a lawsuit brought by representatives of the Madison school district employees and a labor union representing employees of the City of Milwaukee. The ruling applies to all local public workers affected by the law, but not to state employees. Gov. Walker has vowed to appeal the ruling.

      Now if Gov. Walker is a model for some policy in Ireland, lets slam it like Judge Colas did.

      Teachers did not cause the crisis, and the economic theory that slashes wages, public services must be publicly denounced wherever it raises its ugly mug. IMF “suggestions” and academic economic “hints” must be dragged out in public and ridiculed.

      Of course taking on the Troika and IMF means courage and Teachers especially must do this as in Wisconsin.

  43. dwalsh

    Unless and until the financial markets are reined-in and shut down there can be and will be no resolution to the global financial crisis.

    The longer this obvious truth goes unacknowledged, and the obvious course of action is avoided, the closer we move to the destruction of the physical economy and our civilisation.

    • bonbon

      Glass-Steagall is the way to do it, as the Financial Times printed on 4th July 2012, Sandy Weill of Citigroup starting a shout for it.

      That’s step 1, essential, but steps 2 Hamiltonian Banking, followed immediately by step 3, massive projects that have been delayed for years by that doomed financial system.

      The picture needs filling out!

  44. Dilly

    Plenty of lovely foreign girls around minus that self entitlement baggage. :-)

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