July 18, 2012

Dead-end street politics - we won't accept pay cuts so now we're stuck

Posted in Irish Independent · 301 comments ·

Take a walk through any medium-sized town in Ireland, particularly down the little uninspiring streets off the main drag, the streets named after lesser patriots, second-rate saints or the next small town you’d get to if you kept walking. There you will see them, the real victims of the recession: young men and women with nothing to do.

The CSO just released figures on the state of the jobs market and the movement in wages and what we see is that 200,000 people in Ireland are now long-term unemployed. This means that they have been out of work for more than a year. At the beginning of the recession, the vast majority of people losing their jobs were men. This was mainly the result of the collapse in house building and the evaporation of jobs on the sites.

In the past year, this has changed. We are seeing the rapid feminisation of unemployment. In the 12 months to June, long-term unemployment among women rose more than three times faster than among men. Male long-term unemployment went up by 4pc, while it shot up 13.6pc for women. In total, four out of 10 unemployed people have been out of work for more than a year.

We all know that it is harder to get a job when you have been out of work for a while, not only because of the hole in your CV, but also because it can be demoralising emotionally and physically. Anyone who has had a family member on the dole or has been out of work understands what it does to your self-esteem.

As unemployment rises, we would expect wages to be falling throughout the economy.

At least this is what basic economics teaches us. As the wage rates fall to reflect the increased amount of people looking for work, the price of labour falls and companies should take on more of these cheaper workers. That’s what the theory says, but it is not happening.

In fact, the survey from the CSO shows something quite different. According to the CSO, average weekly earnings rose by 0.7pc in the year from Q1 2011-Q1 2012 but was down by 0.8pc from last quarter Q1 2011. Average hourly earnings are down in the same year period by 0.2pc but up from last quarter by 0.7pc.

Average weekly paid hours increased by 1pc from Q1 2011. Weekly earnings increased in 9 out of 13 sectors since Q1 2011. However, this figure is from gross earnings and doesn’t take into account any tax deductions. I’m sure you will be screaming: “Hey my wage packet is smaller now”. This is true but average weekly wages are not falling but static.

There is also a public-versus -private disparity since the recession began. The average weekly paid hours in the public sector fell by 1.6pc since 2008 but weekly wages in the private sector fell by 5.7pc.

So why is this? Why has the collapse in domestic demand in Ireland been reflected in the dramatic increase in the rate of long-term unemployment and not a fall in wages? Why have these 200,000 people suffered much more than anyone else?

This disparity is what is termed the insider/outsider phenomenon in the jobs market. When demand collapses, employers have a choice: either they can cut everyone’s wages or they can fire people and keep the wages of those who stay more or less the same.

In the public sector it works differently because when the employer — the State — goes bust, the public sector unions must move to protect their members, otherwise they wouldn’t be doing their job. It’s up to the Government — the employer — to make the choice. With the Croke Park agreement, we have a choice of sorts.

But ultimately in both the public and the private sector, the choice has been to let people go rather than cut wages.

So where does this leave us? It leaves us with one part of the population paying a much fiercer price from the recession and another part protecting themselves. The insiders are protected and the outsiders are left to fend for themselves.

But here’s where the problem gets more tricky because the interests of the unemployed and the employed clash.

The army of unemployed people wants to get back into a job and, typically, is prepared to accept lower wages for the chance of work. So it is in their interest to see the general wage level drop. But it is not in the interest of the people still in work to see the general wage level drop because they will lose out. So those in work use all their efforts to keep wages up and those who lose their jobs get locked out.

And we see the results of this in the rise of long-term unemployment creating two distinct groupings. Those in work want wages to rise or stay stable until the moment they lose their jobs. Thereafter, they have a personal interest in wages falling, which might give them a chance of getting work.

The implication of this dynamic is not just the rise in long-term unemployed, it is also the evidence we need to know that the idea of internal devaluation within the eurozone doesn’t work either. Within the euro, countries are supposed to regain competitiveness through falls in wages and prices. But this isn’t happening. It rarely does. So we get long-term unemployed instead of a swift re-adjustment of competitiveness through lower wages.

This means we can’t become competitive versus our trading partners quickly. The only way we could do this is via a devaluation of our own currency, but we can’t do this and we won’t accept lower wages, so we are stuck.

The boost to demand we need has to be internally generated. This is why the Government’s announcement of a €2.25 billion stimulus is welcome. But we can’t spend our way out of this with money we don’t have. This is why a coordinated, rapid and meaningful budgetary expansion across the eurozone is essential.

Will this happen? In fact I think it will eventually because otherwise the euro will fall apart and the pressure will come politically from the dead-end streets of towns all over Europe.

  1. Adam Byrne


    • pyor

      Economic theory that deals with pay and jobs was all thought up when nearly all work was unskilled manual labour.
      As jobs have become more specialised the theory falls apart.
      Large numbers of unemployed plasterers are not going to bring down the salary of computer programmers.

      The real crime of the ‘boom’ is not that we built lots of buildings nobody needs. It’s that we trained people to do work that nobody needs. Useless people are a lot worse than useless buildings. You can demolish buildings.

  2. padraic

    I’m dubious about this. With JobBridge alone I would say that we have seen massive cuts in wages accross the public and private sectors as previously advertised posts are replaced with internships and “training opportunites”.

  3. RichardOMT

    Excellent article as usual David! Not sure that Govt or EU stimuli methods work to create jobs – these tend to support larger companies and encourage imports. Given that SMEs account for the vast majority of jobs the key is to create the environment to encourage their growth. The evidence would suggest that despite the marketing and spin, AIB and BoI while not actually refusing credit facilities are prolonging the application process to such an extent that it amounts to the same thing. The availability of credit / cashflow is critical for both domestic and exporting SMEs. A new Govt backed ICC type bank that takes a few risks may help in this regard.

    Govt can encourage SMEs to go after exports to fast developing markets. My experience is that Enterprise Ireland have upped their game and SMEs need to take advantage of this. On a recent sales trip to Brazil their local office set up some fantastic meetings for our company and we’ve developed some very encouraging sales leads as a result. But of course in order to close out on these leads we need working capital / cashflow – hence the need for an ICC type organisation.

    What are your views on this?

  4. bonbon

    Referring to the previous theme, Searching for Real Growth, here is a sane view from a Chinese Official: “Real Economy” Growth Required, Not “Neoliberalism”

    Li Congjun, president of Xinhua News Agency, contributed an op-ed to the New York Times, “Rebalancing The Global Economy,” which speaks to American economic policy and the need for international cooperation with China.

    The concluding section of the editorial reads: “What can be done? First, we cannot expect neoliberalism — privatization, deregulation, free trade — to revive growth. The credit paradox is only narrowly a financial crisis — it is a crisis of faith, one that summons us to turn away from a capital-centered economy to a human-centered one. Capital cannot be expected to be self-policing. To prevent it from mortgaging humanity’s future, governments must reject laissez-faire attitudes. The “visible hand” of government is needed to manage the markets, revamp regulatory systems and bridle reckless behavior. Governments should encourage businesses to invest in the “real” economy — to promote technological innovation and job creation rather than speculation and profiteering.

    “Second, the world’s largest economies — the United States, China, the European Union — must improve coordination on macroeconomic policies, as well as regulation and trade, and resist the temptation of protectionism.

    “Third, balance must be restored: between the financial sector and the real economy; between domestic and overseas demand; between developed and developing countries. China has moved to encourage domestic consumption instead of relying solely on exports.

    “The Great Depression and the Second World War were followed by revolutions in aeronautics, nuclear energy and space exploration. The oil crisis of the 1970s was followed by an information-technology revolution. Only further innovation in science and technology can promote productivity and eventually lead the world out of the current crisis.

    “While it is crucial for the United States and China to bolster their own development, they also need to strengthen cooperation in trade, investment, finance, infrastructure, technology and other fields. The two economies have become highly interdependent; last year, bilateral trade topped $450 billion.

    “Frictions are hardly avoidable, but what’s important is for the two sides to handle their differences through coordination based on equality and mutual understanding. Only by acknowledging our extreme interdependence will we make the fishbowl effect work for humanity, rather than against it.”

    • Philip

      Frankly, I am not interested in any scienfitc or economic progress if it means we still have the same lousy value system. If the system benefits more the drug cartels and banksters and other criminal elites (most are Government btw) etc more than Joe Soap – then screw it. STOP!

      Much of what you discuss (scientific historical nasties you conveniently ignore aside) is all fine and dandy but for the weak link…humans. And all your regulations and laws are human based.

      Ethics and the need to Outlaw Bull$h1t. Base reality is eyeballing and smelling your fellow man while you choose to help them or knife them in the back. Working with people is a sticky business. The paraphenalia of tech and organisation is just that…paraphenalia – unless tbe basics are right – something that 1950s white coat Popular Science and economics always fails to recognise.

      • bonbon

        Smell the HSBC smell in the gov’t, fully documented below. If you survive that stink, rather like ammonia waking salts, you will realize what is going on.

        And with such an overpowering stink, in no way means we must abandon progress. The stinkers want us to capitulate, be underlings, Paddies, and just maybe be fed.

        Do not do a Robespierre, in the service of the Crown, agin!

  5. Deco

    We are paying ourselves more than we are worth.

    We have a culture that persistently celebrates nothing.

    We have a leadership, that does not show any.

    We have banks that have no money. (and anecdotal evidence points to them restricting withdrawls).

    We have a massive state system, that is ineffectual.

    We have regulation that comes down heavy on small scale breaches, and plays golf with the big offenders.

    We have pasport control that is meaningless.

    We have a media where large sections are owned by tax-non-payers, but which loves to wave the green jersey.

    We have a massive real estate holding company that is funded by the taxpayers, whose purpose is to prevent a complete flop in the property sector, and to thereby keep up long term tax intake.

    The HSE is the essence of Irish organizational chaos, failure and waste.

    We have a democracy where you, the voters get consulted once every five years, and where IBEC/ICTU/vested interests can consult with government ministers any minute of the day, and day of the year.

    We have austerity packages circulated in the Bundestag (and possibly in other places as well) before the Dail gets to see them.

    We are dwelling intellectually in a domain where reality is constructed from our own impulses, and egos. And it is being persistently presented to us by the media as normal.

    We have people who cannot pay their grocery bill phoning in the radio, to get a discussion from multimillionaires.

    A lot of things are a complete mirage in this society of ours.

    To survive, I can only offer this advice.


    • Philip


      Morality and ethics are brushed aside.

    • Gerry C

      Deco – eloquently put and sadly all too right – I think the last sentence says it all – we are not living …we are surviving – some better than others but they are in the minority. I don’t think you have to go to such lengths as David suggests to meet and see the hoards of able bodied men and women who would give anything to have that feeling of worth and value – this is the erosive feeling of not having a purpose – I have sadly been all too aware of the increasing rate of suicide across all ages.

    • Well summarized Deco.
      “We have people who cannot pay their grocery bill phoning in the radio, to get a discussion from multimillionaires.”
      One of the RTE millionaires (Miriam O’Callahan) gets approx. 1000 Euros monthly in childrens allowances, in consideration of her big family..

    • molly

      Yes Decko yes yes
      With our over payed government who milk a system that they are in control of and they show in no uncertain terms that they are not prepared to lead by example.
      Let’s use the lead by example ,they the government should have taken a serious pay cut and then they should have taken another pay cut ,who in there right mind weather he be self employed or working in a job have any reason to follow an honest path when you see the role models we have telling us don’t do as I do do as I say,
      For F sake WAKE up Irish people enough is enough.
      The truth is for what ever reason and there are a lot of reasons we can’t afford to live in Ireland and with more cuts on the way and the governments puppet string being pulled there’s no hope .

    • +1. Glad you mentoned ego.
      Pretty sharp post sir

    • bonbon

      So real physical economics, growth, and a real credit system to provide long-term project financing. Economics measured not in monetarist terms, rather per-capita and per hectare energy flux density production and consumption. Modern agriculture to feed 9+ billion, water to green deserts and by doing so modify weather.

      How about it?

      • I am sure the Eugenics fanatics will be having convulsions at the though of 9 billion

        • bonbon

          Eugenics is the flip side of the monetarist coin, a mass murderous lust. Just look as Lord Maynard Keynes, Eugenics Society Treasurer for 50 years. An idol of banking. Or look at seeming Keynes opponent Hayek’s “we will start small” meaning many less.
          Monetarists are joined together with greenie economics by this point.

          So put it squarely on the table! And watch!

          • Tony Brogan

            Where is the evidence of Hayek’s connection to an agreement with adopting eugenics or advocating genocide.
            So far I can find nothing at all to agree with your insinuation.

      • Tony Brogan

        So is this a 5 year plan or a 10 year plan

    • Reality Check

      Nail on the Head as usual Deco.
      You should have your own Newspaper column.
      (I’m deadly serious about that btw)

    • Pedro Nunez

      ‘Rem acu tetigisti’
      Deco, as usual, but we’ve got to get out of this mess and hopefully with vision, discipline, passion and a collective conscience we can.

      The Germans have a head start and an extra ‘handicap’ on us, they botched up their country and Europe in 2 world wars. They are resilient, so why can’t we?

      Oliver Wendell Holmes said, “I wouldn’t give a fig for simplicity this side of complexity, but I’d give my right arm for simplicity the far side of complexity.”

      Does strategy drive tactics or tactics drive strategy in getting ‘Ireland inc’ afloat again?

      Covey died this week leaving $1.4 billion and one of his ‘pearls’ that has resonance to me is the ‘WIG’ (Wildly Important Goal), what one, one thing could Ireland do that would be significant, add consequence and add value, and if we don’t do it, renders the rest of what we do inconsequential?

      Focus, focus, focus, or as Churchill said, “never, never, never give up”

      • Adam Byrne

        RIP Covey, he wrote a couple of decent books. I have a miniature version of ’7 Habits…’ that I carry around in my winter coat and re-read every winter when travelling by bus.

      • Adam Byrne

        I feel sorry for Covey and his family. He died from complications at the age of 79, related to a bicycle accident in April.

        At least he was trying and able (somewhat) to keep active at that age. It’s a cruel way to go considering the fact that he was making an effort to do something positive.

        Be careful on that bike of yours Tony!

        • Tony Brogan

          Adam, there is a risk in all things.
          I often cycle on the main highway betweem the ferry terminal and victoria 30 km South.

          It is safer than the side roads if more noisey. The shoulders are wider,and the paving is better.

          The on / off highway ramps were a problem when I first started but then I decided to drive like a car.
          Off ramps are easy as the road winds off if you take it but it is staying on the main road and passing these ramps where the problem can arise.

          I stay out next to the main lane and the cars pass by on the ramp until I get to the narrow portions where I easily merge to the side again.

          One other advantage is that when it is very busy the vehicles enable a draft of the wind in the direction travelled that makes for easier peddling and better progress (there is that word again)!! Wind assisted passage.

          Yesterday I did 120km round trip as I went to the boxing club to coach, and then back again. It is the first time in 20 years that I have lost some weight so I am encouraged to continue even though it is still a pain in the butt!.

          you should try biking to work. It is good to clear the mind with the exercise.

          I do not worry about the Dead , Adam. Their problems are over. It is those who are left behind I worry more about. It is not good to see prolonged illness and degeneration either. But it is a good way to go, trying anything at all rather than nothing.

          Remember to celebrate a life while they are living rather than after they are gone.

          I am beginning to think I may invite a bunch of strangers to my next birthday instead of waiting for someone to throw a party for me!! I’ll keep you in touch!! Maybe it will be a Blog party?

          As this is an economics blog , as bon bon says, I have to report that at the current pace my capital investment of bike and associated equipment and tools will be recovered by petrol savings within 12 months.
          not a bad investment with the ancilliary benefit of better health which will save significant amounts in doctors bills etc. and provide increased well being. However my hunger level has increased and so the food bill is up somewhat.

          • Adam Byrne

            Sounds way too risky for me Tony, especially those wind draft and lane manoeuvres you describe.

            Also, do you wear a face mask when driving in all that traffic?

          • Adam Byrne

            Or when cycling rather.

          • Tony Brogan

            No face mask. The air is actually cleaner than sitting inside a car in traffic.
            The traffic noise is the bother. I can not hear the birds songs or the frogs ribbitting, but I do notice the wild flowers in the hedgerows. Lots of baby bunnies out in the dusk and after dark.
            Raccoons scooting accross a monentarily quiet road, cats seen motionless in the longer grass.
            While off the road on the Galloping Goose trail I have twice come accross a miniture horse and trap driven with a couple of kids aboard.
            i have seen two young sisters out, maybe 8 and 10, enjoying a bike ride alone. I see young mothers pushing prams, I see older men with bikes laden with bags and pulling a trailer behind. street dwellers I suspect. I must stop to chat the next time.
            one sees things on a bike, quickly passed by in a car. These are rewards in themselves.
            Horses were a great part of my youth and teenage years. I will have one again soon. I will not be show jumping or racing but I will enjoy the snuffle of a horse’s nose in the oats bucket and the rythmic chomping of the chewing of fragrant hay. Standing with a horse in the stable late at night is a soul satisfying experience.
            Get a horse and a bike Adam. One way to enjoy life.

      • Tony Brogan

        what one, one thing could Ireland do that would be significant, add consequence and add value, and if we don’t do it, renders the rest of what we do inconsequential?

        Easy for me to answer Pedro
        Ireland leaves the euro but stays in the community.
        Revokes all odious debt, (that aquired by the “regime” and added to the national debt but was not for the good of the people.
        closes the central Bank
        all monetary policy reverts to treasury.
        Impliments it own currenecy pegged to nothing except gold.
        Authorizes the minting of silver coin in parallel to paper money to give the people a chace to save in something inflation protected.

        The overall problem is the banking system from which emanates all other problems. It must be reformed or all else is doomed to failure.

        Close the central banking system, eliminate fractional resrve banking, impliment a sound, commodity based money system of national currency.


    • fluoridefree

      Nice article, I certainly agree many things are a complete mirage in this society of ours, just add in health.

      We have a health service that is controlled by pharmaceutical companies not the government or doctors. Any criticism of health matters is censored by the media.

      Successive governments have been complicit in medical experiments such as water fluoridation where the expiry date hasn’t been reached after 48 years, currently costing us over €4 million every year. I wonder why the IMF doesn’t suggest a cut here?

      Incidentally James Reilly is about the only doctor in Ireland who believes this practice “continues to make an effective contribution to the oral health of the nation”. Of course, the media often conclude: “ending this practice would be an attack on the poor”.

      I could go on about the cancer industry, but I won’t, suffice to say that the petro-pharmaceutical companies are every bit as corrupt as the bankers, if not worse.

  6. redriversix

    Morning David

    I believe the subject of your article is a real “hot potato” and ,without patronizing you , I commend you for taking it on.

    As you know,I am one of the long term unemployed, over eighteen months now.Although I realize your article is not about “me” I would like to point out some of my experiences and opinion in attempting to get gainful employment.

    Wages or a salary have dropped dramatically.I have applied for countless jobs with no reply,this seems to be a common occurrence.Some Companies advertise jobs that do not exist.They do this to give the impression that they are doing “well” , or you get a job , agree terms , work for a month , receive your wages and get a third less than what was agreed , when questioned ,you are told it is because of difficult trading conditions and “stick with us ,we will review in 6 months”…..

    Senior management positions can be advertised , when you apply,the senior position , which you are qualified for is gone , but they have a “temp contract” available in a lower paid position that may suit until a more senior position arises.The Senior position was never their to begin with…Companies advertise for a Senior Manager as a form of self elimination by applicants and to get better qualified people for “lower” positions and cheaper wages but get access to their senior experience.

    In my opinion their is very little ,if any Jobs available offering “Gainful employment” out there.

    As for “job bridge or internships” through F.A.S , not worth discussing.

    I hope to set up a small business in the new year and that’s what has my focus now , rather than searching the fiction that is the “jobs market”

    Hope you had a great holiday and I wish you and yours well Today.



    • Harper66

      Good to see you posting again and best of luck with developing your business idea.

      • redriversix

        Thanks Harper66

        Hope all good with you.Have a great day.


        • molly

          The only way forward is to try and go your own road as someone said to me are you not worried about your credit rating ,why would I there is no credit rating and the useless banks will try and bounce back ,but people don’t have short term memory’s .
          I have a fuel card from a fuel card company in Galway for my diesel and I was paying it through DD but I was not keepiln track of the cost of what I was being charged per litre and w as being over charged ,in one year I was over charged 1500 euros at least .
          So I contacted the fuel card company and got the run around and was than offered 300 euros compo,the only way sort it was to run up a bill of 1500 euros and cancel the card and the DD .the fuel card company black listed my credit rating so what stuff them and stuff the credit rating ,so the morel of the story is trust no one and keep an eye on fuel cards.

      • Adam Byrne

        I second that.

        • redriversix

          Judgements are like opinions…everyone will have one soon…Think I have 4 , 6 more and a get a matching set of vases.!!

    • It’s all a gas RR6 and it is clear you are living in the real world. You can’t believe what any one says any more

      • redriversix

        Thank you Pauldiv

        I find the amount of lies , deceit , spin and bullshit “amusing” now……It annoyed me for a couple of months and I did not bother posting.That is not a reflection on this site , just wasn’t bothered..!

        Its funny how if you embrace what life throws at you, do the best you can , how easier things get and how laughable the whole crisis is.

        Thankfully through this “crisis” I found out what is truly important and that makes me and mine very happy today.

        The apathy is so Bad in Ireland maybe we ,I, they , you them deserve everything we get……..! ?

        Our government is truly criminal , fraudulent and downright hostile in the way it “run’s” this Country , treat its Citizens , Spouts utter economic nonsense that any 6th class student could see through and condemns a generation to a menial future , if we are lucky.

        People need to stand up for themselves today , take care of themselves and their families first , but alas.they won’t , they will pay their mortgage in full and cut back on food etc etc etc etc etc……..

        When was the last time anyone did a true “home budget” ?
        Do people really know were they stand.?

        Fear.?…..fear is not a fact , it is a feeling and people are driven by fear , Government and Banks know this and use “Fear” to their full advantage.

        Still waiting for permission for debt forgiveness ?

        You don’t need permission , people need to grow a pair of balls and stand up for themselves otherwise the only place they will find sympathy is between syphilis and Shit in a dictionary.

        Make tomorrow the start of the rest of your life , being a victim is boring , know your worth and honor yourself and your family.

        Always enjoy your posts , Pauldiv.Keep the flag flying and keep us all smiling.


        • No problem RR6. Always a pleasure to read your replies

          We are living in Tom and Jerry world now. The more I watch alternative the media the more I bellyache when flicking over to the BBC and RTE and Sky. Don’t start me on TV3. It is all a gas and I either laugh or slip into apathy

          The bravest thing anyone can do is follow their heart and have the courage to take their chances and see how it pans out. Simple. But I agree that there is something in the idea that are getting what we deserve. We all know that on a personal level we could try harder

          My dream was to come to Ireland. Seriously stop laughing RR6. I made my bed and will make the most of it now

          People will always look after themselves first. It’s a basic survival thing however I’d rather look after myself and help others up the ladder on the way

          You would never find me clambering into the lifeboats ahead of woman and children. I wasn’t brought up that way

          There is no sane reason for feeling fear and I say this as someone who is long term unemployed. The only thing I fear is myself and it took 40 years to get to arrive at this conclusion

          I will indeed keep smiling RR6 and continue posting as long as people like yourself want me to raise a smile

          Take care

          YouTube Cycles by Sinatra.

          • Tony Brogan

            The bravest thing anyone can do is follow their heart and have the courage to take their chances and see how it pans out.

            Very true Mr Pauldiv

    • Go for it now. Why delay it for 6 months?

      Myself and some of the guys here can talk to you about technology and get you fixed up real fast. There is e wealth of knowledge and experience on here waiting to be tapped into. We can forget money from the start

      When you are rich you can wire a donation to buy them shoes lol

  7. Nice article David. And yet the IMF claims high welfare benefits are responsible for the “low exit rates” from the live register. Not every country in Europe is experiencing the extreme economic conditions of Ireland, sadly I think the more stable economies of the EU will prefer to just go their own way. I cannot imagine any sane politician in Germany or elsewhere persuading their citizens of the merits of what you suggest, sadly.

    • hibernian56

      HIgh welfare rates? Its €180 odd a week as far as I know and a means test for rent allowance. Compare that to a couple of grand the Muinteoirs and union lackeys get at the prime spot in the trough.

      Why did everyone pay taxes to feed into the trough if when they need it they are told sorry, your house is worth too much, your partner is still working, you were self employed etc. Some guys I know are suicidal.

      THEY don’t want to share the contents of the trough because it means less for them. Last week I was blackmailed into paying a €400 deposit to Bord Gais or no heating / cooking, no interest and I will get it back in 17 months if I have a good payment history. This is all added to the feeding trough for the privileged few.

      I never noticed this before, but as more of my friends and me are struggling to just put food on the table we are all coming to the realisation that the ENTIRE system is a farce. The only interaction I had with the state recently was harassment form the Revenue about income tax, a prick with a clip board asking for a TV license and the Gardai about road tax. Oh and theres the 23% on virtually everything I buy.

      TAX TAX TAX. What is it being spent on? RTE is a vested interest promoter, The roads are shit and I barely make enough (when eventually paid) to feed us let alone pay tax. Are they serious?

      Its gone beyond party politics. It time for a complete reset.

      • Adam Byrne

        I can’t believe you are only noticing now ‘hibernian56′ that this country is a ‘rip off republic’. I noticed myself about 25 years ago at the age of 15 which is when I decided to get the hell out. At least some people are waking up, if only belatedly.

      • You are wakening up as Adam says. Better late then never

        Sure they will even tax you when are dead.

      • molly

        The system is a farce and with all the suffering that’s out there it’s only a mater of time before someone explodes by doing something that will make the wrong people suffer.
        Push people to far and all hell will break lose.
        Have things got worse under the present government ?
        Have you less money now?
        Do you have any standard of living now. …….?
        Do you think things are going to get worse.?


    RR6 I opened a small restaurant in Dungarvan 6 weeks ago. “The Smokehouse Bar-B-Que” We are at The Stables Bar Abbeyside Dungarvan Co Waterford
    I have to say I have favorable rates per week, got it going for cheap and I am doing well considering.
    One of the reasons is my offering has a twist, it is actually good food. Not only is it good, its really really good. And its not boring.

    When you get a basket of my BBQ ribs, available on Saturdays, they exceed your expectations.
    I make and bottle my own BBQ sauce.
    Not the vinegary Chef shit you may know.
    When you taste my sauce, it has the WOW factor.

    That is the key, whatever you’re offering, even if it is a window cleaning service, exceed the customers expectations and you will grow your business.

    My “Doomsday Burger” sports 3/4 lb of flame grilled, locally ground Irish beef, 3 slices of smoked streaky rashers, Swiss and cheddar cheese, grilled onions, and served with a bust of chips. The tagline on the menu is “Many will try, most will fail”
    We are not the boring same ol same ol shit.

    Tomorrow I am launching what I hope will be a huge hit, My Italian Meatball sandwich. “The Tony Soprano”
    This will consist of big fluffy pork and beef meatballs dripp’n with Mozzarella and marinara on a garlic toasted french loaf with more melted Mozzarella on top!
    When I make the meatballs I use the recipe my next door neighbors Grandmother passed on to us in Chicago back in the seventies, its delicious.

    So, be REMARKABLE in your new venture and dont wait until the new year, start now. Onwards and Upwards!

    The back to work scheme has a favourable system for gradually reducing your benefits with a good safety net if you fail. Look into it.
    Good luck RR6 and if you are down to us for the Fleadh Ceoil this week stop by and have some good food.

    • redriversix

      Thanks for that Smokey

      I wish you well in your venture and I will drop by when in town..

      “sure do like me some BBQ ribs”…….


    • Adam Byrne

      Hello SMOKEY,

      I had a quick look for your new business on Facebook but I noticed that you don’t have a Facebook Business Page (or if you do it’s not easy to find). I did find a Facebook profile (which should only be used for personal, not business use) for Stables Bar Abbeyside but this is not ideal.

      A Facebook Business Page is not going to revolutionise your business overnight but in my experience it’s a very useful (and virtually free – excepting your time) tool for building awareness and a place for clients, past, present and future to spread the word about your business.

      Here’s a useful tip for you about their targeted advertisements facility. If you go through the whole procedure to set up a targeted advertisement but don’t actually commit at the final state (credit card payment), their system will recognise this and a few days later they will offer you £30 free advertising credit (always in GBP initially for some reason).

      At this point you’ll still have to give your credit card number but they will never charge it unless you tell them to. If you spread the £30 over seven days and target the advertisement correctly you can expect to get about 300 Likes from people who are genuinely interested in your product / service. For example you could target males from 25 – 35 in Dungarvan within a certain radius who are interested in restaurants /bars etc. – the permutations are endless.

      After that you can decide if you want to continue the campaign by paying with your credit card but you can set a daily limit on it so you never go over your budget. Even a couple of Euros a day can make a difference. If your product is really exciting it can start to go viral, as friends of the people who initially LIKE you will get on-board. People are far more likely to trust the word of their friends than other forms of advertising.

      I’m doing this for a couple of small businesses in the West Dublin / North Kildare area, and another in the Caribbean region and have had great online success with them which has already translated to increased profits for the respective businesses. I’m only charging my clients €15 an hour at present for this kind of work. If you need some help with it you can email me at adamabyss@hotmail.com

      Good luck with your new venture and I hope to make it down that way to try the ribs at some point in the not-too-distant future.

      Adam Byrne.

      • hibernian56

        Good tip Adam.
        Subscribe ;-)

      • Sound advice for anyone in Business. €15 an hour for such advive sounds brilliant. I hope you flourish Adam and get the funds together for the Carribean. It’s amazing what you can achieve with integrity and the right price level

        Before I forget

      • redriversix

        Well done Adam

        Great to see people like you reaching out to others.

        Wish you great success in your enterprise


      • SMOKEY

        Actually I do have a business one, http://www.facebook.com/pages/Smokehouse-Bar-B-Que/341609665910478 Here it is, but I am not proficient with the ins and out of it.
        Will email you for more info
        Thanks a million for the AWESOME advice, what a blog!!!
        I think this is the way forward in this economy, helping each other for free and modest fees, €15.00 hour is more than fair, and setting up a network of valuable info from people I dont even know. Amazing.
        Thanks will talk soon. Thanks again.

        • SMOKEY

          Oh yeah, SUBSCRIBE!!

          • SMOKEY

            Thanks so much guys, didnt realize that about the photos. Wow……must think about that one. Thanks again. You have inspired me! By the way, The Tony Soprano Italian Meatball Sandwich was a HIT! No gun intended, I mean no PUN intended,………….

        • I gave you a like on FB Smokey and the pictures have made me hungry. Photos sell products and should be given our best effort

          • joe hack

            The food looks great, I want to eat now! but your images need work you should consider retaking them,just leave one up for now, some of the close up images are a NO NO.
            yours an experienced Photographer. just leave a taste of what you have to offer make people curious at least until you get the time to do your food justice image wise,yours an experienced Photographer.

          • Yes the the images could be much better

        • Google ‘Food Photography’ Smokey and learn the tricks.
          I am pleased you are inspired and hope you have fun learning.

  9. Deco

    The increase in female unemployment is a result of contraction in the quantity of retail firms in the economy.

    Retailing is being concentrated. Local authority rates are causing unemployment.

    The defining moment with respect to the stupidity at national leadership, came when Cowen opened a Tesco outlet in the Midlands as Taoiseach. He stated that it was evidence of job creation.

    When this is the calibre of leadership that predominates in your country, then you should prepare for some long difficulties ahead.

    • hibernian56

      Tesco opened a tore on the main street in Rush where my Mom lives.

      Its incredible how they got planning permission. 6 months later and 50% of the local business that had been there for as long as I can remember are closed. Coincidence?

      The built an electricity inter connector which ran along the main street in Rush over to the UK. I often wonder did they also build one of those pneumatic chutes so that Tesco could sent the money back to the UK as soon as possible.

      • Deco

        In England, now there is a phrase a “Tesco town”.

        Tesco, comes in, and puts the town out of business.

        It is a similar occurence to the US where Walmart does the same thing. There is a persistent counter culture building in the Western half of the United States against Walmart.

        With respect to Tesco, the one thing that always shocks me is that the local authorities in many counties have allowed a roundabout to built outside Tesco.

        This makes me extremely skeptical about matters relating to planning permission.

        This is the end to retail employment, the end to retail diversity, and the end to many family businesses. And our local authority muppets are happy to sign away decades of local heritage in order to keep insolvent local authorities employing party canvassers, relatives, and chums from the clubhouse.

      • rincewind

        It is wrong to blame Tesco for that. People have a choice of where they do their shopping, and if they choose to go to Tesco then so be it.
        Yet, I would say it is not beyond Tesco to bribe some officials to gain an advantage, but that would be criminal and needs justice.
        Everybody can just vote with their money and do not shop at Tesco – problem solved.
        But that does not happen, because they offer perceived value, which is completely legitimate.

        Personally, I shop at Aldi/Tesco/Dunnes/Walmart for things like cleaners, tissues and similar things, but I would not consider buying meat or veg there.

    • We had an English teacher who had a permanent stain on his tie and who always blootered by one o’clock. Sometimes he slabbered and his speech was incomprehensible

  10. lff12

    Good article David, and hard to stomach if you really read into it, because we all ultimately want to get as much as we can for ourselves. As an IT contractor (albeit a slightly unwilling one as it happened because of the 5 job offers I’ve had in the last 3 years, not a single one has been permanent), I see myself caught in the illusory trap of accepting short term inflated pay as an alternative to unemployment and hoping that a perm job appears somewhere. The fact that my last 3 so-called “permanent” jobs no longer exist is a sweat inducing incentive to accept this risk.

    However, in the private sector, you know you are taking the risk. In the public sector you force the risk onto somebody else – the temp, the intern, or most repulsively and totally a betrayal of the whole point of collective bargaining – you force the 10% wage cut onto the notional employee who isn’t already working there. You are 100% correct.

    Sadly, I think the shameless selfishness will continue in the public sector – as indeed it does in pockets of the private sector – and I am acutely aware of my own part in the game. The only thing I do feel, as a short term contractor, is that my forced self-employed state now means I lose automatic entitlement soon to social welfare, so that additional money which I’ve saved might be necessary to keep myself going some day when the welfare net will not be there for me. Its a difficult one David, but well said, too many are afraid to be honest about this.

    • hibernian56

      I’m in exactly the same boat. Stumbling from contract to contract. Paying taxes. Entitled to nothing. I have heard first hand stories of the dirty looks and remarks given by “Welfare Officers” when meeting self employed buddies down on their luck who ultimately got nothing and had to go begging to the local community officer.

      The self employed have no safety net other than keeping enough cash to leave if nothing else comes along. I almost emigrated twice in the last six months only for a local contract to come in at the last minute.

      Its infuriating.

      • Adam Byrne

        My advice (not worth much): Go! In the name of God, go! (if you get another chance to emigrate).

      • lff12

        You know what’s most Sickening? When welfare came in to explain the system to the 32 of us who were laid off, they kept talking back again and again of “starting your own business”, not once did they mention any of the risks or loss of welfare this would entail. I’m thinking of moving away after this contract is up, if I can’t find something permanentish.

        • I received an email from the SW for a computer training course assessment and about 100 of us were herded into a local hotel. Cha ching

          I have a 2.1 degree in computing and apparently ‘failed’ the test. I laughed and thought well at least I did my part

          Like I keep saying it’s all a gas and not to be taken seriously by grown ups

          • redriversix

            Super mario can be a bitch sometimes…! hehe

          • scaldyballs

            Failed that test too. I’d like to know how you conduct a computer course aptitude test…without any bloody computers.

          • The problem was with the exam materials themselves in my case

            Cheaply printed and lacking contrast. Light pink page numbers on a white background for example. Should have been black

            The layout of the answer sheet was confusing and I think I might have got all the answers back to front

            It does not take a genius to create documents that are clear and unambiguous and it smacked of amateurism and laziness

  11. lff12

    Deco you raise interesting questions about female unemployment. Are they collateral damage or part of an overall trend? Its difficult to tell. I think its also related to lower pay, a concentration in retail, possibly a large scale return to black economy practices in largely female sectors such as child minding and cleaning. It deserves close analysis.

  12. Prend


    Speaking as an employer, one issue with your logic is that in fact employers have little or no grounds for reducing wage rates per employee.

    I have two businesses. One employs five people. In that business, I asked everyone which would they prefer, one role is made redundant or everyone takes a pay cut. To a person, they decided on a pay cut.

    In the other business, I employ up to 120 people in the busy season. However, managers in that business outright refused to take a pay cut and I was unable to persuade otherwise. The result, people have to go. There was no union involvement.

    Therefore, the choice is not with the employer but in fact with the employee.

    • Hi Prend,

      I take your point and I run a small business too with seven staff, two part-time and we talk openly about this and your picture is right. We all know that the future is based on yours truly hustling for work here and abroad. :) But in the aggregate, I think what I have written reflects the economy-wide position.

      Best of luck with everything,


      • joe hack

        I placed this in the wrong spot – so here it is again with typo corrections.

        With reference to David’s Article and Preind’s response above,

        I said before in there is work, but there are those who would opt see others on the dole rather that take a pay cut, but when they do they then end up paying more taxes to pay for people on the dole and in turn they may support dole and pension cuts so as to reduce their tax liabilities, this is a zero sum game.

        There is obviously more long term advantages to keeping people employed than on the dole.

        The issue is not about cutting the dole, low vs. high wages it is about a leadership and community sprit which is lacking it is not about unions or private vs. public.

        It is about dare I say it “nationalism” community

        Preind and David as employers should also note that excessive profits at the top is a leadership issue, it is not there sole responsibility as individual employers to the run the country that is the job of governments and more so the people.

        Individualism is a social disaster both for the employer and the employee and moreover it is not in the best interest healthy society, as a measure of success the amount of money someone has is at the heart of this, at the higher end the bankers bonuses show how flawed this is, at the lower money wise that is-community involved people live on little but give more than most moneyed people ever have.

        It is interesting to note that “Preind’s” mention of his group of five workers who were willing to share the their incomes to save a jobs is the inverse of those isolated from the rest of the workforce ‘the managers’, he also mentions no unions were involved, his observations goes to the heart of the mess that we-the Irish are in.

        We have continued the individualisation of our society; we have isolated ourselves from our neighbours, sure it’s his own fault he/she is this or that, this is said in attempt to justify.

        • lff12

          That’s two very interesting scenarios. In my own redundancy, we had one back stabbing prick who went as far as phoning up our boss in the US in an effort to broken the names of everybody but him. His efforts fell on deaf ears, our boss was upfront and told us what this guy had done, in the end we all got let go anyway.

          The moral of the story though, is two years after, that guy is the only one left out of the 32 let go not working. His maliciousness ensured that nobody wants to work with him who knows him, so essentially he has done the opposite of networking. A cautionary tale!

          • Colin

            “we had one back stabbing prick who went as far as phoning up our boss in the US in an effort to broken the names of everybody but him.”

            Do you mean blacken the names? What exactly did he say to the boss in the USA, I’m intrigued, I mean, did he know this boss well, and was he going to do 32 people’s work all by himself?

    • molly

      I employed a small amount of people 4 and myself and with the down turn I have to let them go including my wife,when i think back now and I am not alone in this I tryed to keep the show on the road paying my employings while burning any savings I had.
      My pension was destroyed and so on ,the point is when I see and here the lies that where and are being told ,the waste of money,the over payed,why would any one employ even one person .
      The red tape and the self style of the government and the way the country is being run is a scandal .
      Don’t get sick ,don’t get caught in the lies look after number one your self and your family bring back the barter system and show this government by your actions that the day has come when you will not be made a fool by self serving over payed run system controlled by pure greed.

    • Colin

      “In the other business, I employ up to 120 people in the busy season. However, managers in that business outright refused to take a pay cut and I was unable to persuade otherwise. The result, people have to go. There was no union involvement.”

      Did the managers have a ‘feeling’ that they were not going to be dipsosed of? Maybe they analysed the two options and realised they were less likely to be the ones asked to be let go? If that is the case, they have been proved right for not choosing the pay cut option.

      I don’t know why you would think turkeys would vote for Christmas. Do us all a favour next time by saving a few more job by imposing pay cuts, and give those who earn the most the highest percentage paycut. Tough if their wives aren’t best pleased about it, wake up to reality, we are in economic depression, and let me tell you unemployment is no joke, because I know about it very well – it tests you mentally, it fucks with your head, it causes arguments at home, and awkwardness amongst your friends or people who you thought were your friends. Just bear that in mind next time you tell someone you’re fired.

      • Prend

        Colin, my point is that, to the best of my knowledge, you cannot simply impose a pay cut on emaployees. Where pay cuts have happened, it has either been with the agreement of staff or with Union agreement. And they have not been proved right as I am looking at redundancies of certain roles now.

        You cannot simply impose pay cuts.

  13. michaelcoughlan

    Hi David,

    It is in NO ONE’S interest for wages to fall. There is a cost benefit in going to work ie the level of income must cover the cost. What’s needed is liquidity in the system to allow people with the skill and the work ethic the opportunity to make a job for themselves. The government is doing the opposite in that it is taking currency out of circulation. If a business is insolvent working harder even for no income at all will only bankrupt the person faster in a direct ratio. Ie the harder I work the faster I bankrupt myself!

  14. gizzy

    Just heard of another receiver appointed this morning (kpmg)again. Man had dealt with Bank for thirty years. Loans called in on Monday. Receiver appointed on Wednesday. Let the fees and arse covering roll on.

  15. CorkPlasticPaddy

    Sorry, David, but I have to disagree with some of the figures you’ve used in your latest article. Wages have dropped all over the country. My wife used to earn €14.50 an hour when she was working full/part-time in a civil engineering company’s office back in 2009. That company closed down back in April 2009 owing to management decisions that quite literally drove the business ‘into the ground’.Now she works for an agency and she only gets €10.50 an hour. That’s one hell of a reduction in spending power!! If you were to compare that with what is generally going on all over the country at this point in time it’s no wonder the domestic economy is in the shape it’s in???
    Now the Troika are calling for the government to cut social welfare rates,along with the amount of Medical Cards along with Child Benefit. What do these fecking idiots think people are going to live on??? I agree in cutting out Child Benefit for those families who are earning over €100,000, but not for the families who can least afford it!!!

    • And if there is a 500 million Euro overrun in the Health budget this year will Dr Debt O’Reilly increase the waiting lists from two to three years to see a consultant, because 90% of the total budget goes on wages and salaries and these are untouchable in the public sector now that Gilmore is party to decision making.
      Cutting social welfare rates will be the nail in the already well padded coffin waiting down the line for the Labour Party.
      What awaits us then-a Sinn Fein Fine Gael coalition.?
      The mind boggles.

    • bonbon

      Wake up – the Troika will kill you. No way to reason or negotiate is possible, they will make another Greece and keep going.

      So burn the bondholders and give the Troika a headache.

      With the ESM the Troika will not call on gov’ts, they will simply do it. Dictatorships happen to be like that. Ask any Chilean under Pinochet. FG will be able to say it’s not us we have no choice.

  16. Deflated

    I am at a loss…… Ipads for the government. this is just getting more and more sick.

    On another note, Why is there so little about the MASSIVE Libor scandal in the MSM. this is so big it is almost impossible to comprehend.

    I have been searching all over the internet as I cant get anywhere with the news to find out what impact this may have on mortgages and loans in europe. Could there be a possible default by holders of said loans….

    Any insight would be greaty appreciated as I know this is early days and after speaking with a mortgage provider their bet info tyo me was ‘we are playing wait and see so we only have a couple of things to offer you as renegotiation’ oh, and they all help us only, but we are here to help!

    This Libor Fraud is massive and impacts on all of us.



    • Harper66

      I agree this is major story that is getting next to no coverage. The repercussions of what was going on must be massive?

    • Go to rt.com and check out Max Keiser. He is on Sky channel 512 on Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. He will keep you right regarding the bankers

      Tell your fiends about it as most of the guys on here often tune into the Keiser Report. It keeps us sane

      • More and more people are turning their backs on MSM and looking to alternative media. It’s a sign of the times and after watching it for a while RTE and Sky News look like Tom and Jerry for all the sense it makes. Good luck

        • Deflated

          That is my view too Pauldiv.

          Thanks for the links, i will follow them.

          If there is a route to address all these political issues in Ireland without polititions what would the best rout be and how can we make it more accessable to the peopel.


          • It would need to be something with clout and ample funding.

            Everything is fragmented and right now that suits the MSM

            Soon they will be donosaurs if people with media smarts create something far more compelling

    • bonbon

      I posted in last theme about this in detail – extracts from Handelsblatt, lists of banks under investigation, the sheer scale, and most important implicating Geithner, which means the White House.

      Calls for Glass-Steagall in the Financial Times all over the 4th-july week – the core British finance calling for FDR’s regulation is surely not forseen by and crystal ball gazers here.
      Some in Britain know very well what is at stake.

    • rincewind

      Just go to Zero Hedge to get the picture. Forget MSM. Who watches or reads them anyway?

    • Tony Brogan

      “On another note, Why is there so little about the MASSIVE Libor scandal in the MSM. this is so big it is almost impossible to comprehend. ”

      Because the MSM is owned by the same monied interests that control the banks. MSM are just propaganda machines.
      The corruption reaches beyond the banks. You will only read what the PTB want you to know. There is no longer a free press. Ask DMW?

  17. Harper66

    I understand the genral thrust of the article however is not the over hang of personal debt one of the major problems in getting people to accept pay cuts?

  18. joe hack

    With reference to David’s Article and Preind’s response above,

    I said before in there is work but there are those who would rather see others on the dole rather that take a pay cut but when they don’t they then end up paying more tax to pay for people on the dole and in turn they may support dole cut and pension cut so to reduce their tax liabilities this is a zero sum game.

    There are more long term advantages to keeping people employed than on the dole.

    The issue is not about cutting the dole low vs. high wages it is about a leadership and community sprit which is lacking it is not about unions, private vs. public.

    It is about dare I say it “nationalism” community

    But Preind and David as employers should also note that excessive profits at the top is a leadership issue but it may and is not there sole responsibility as individual employers to the run the country that is the job of governments and more so the people.

    Individualism is a social disaster both for the employer and the employee long term, the amount of money someone has as a measure of success is at the heart of this, at the higher end the bankers bonuses show how flawed this is, at the lower community involved people live on little but give more than most banker ever have.

    • Individualism is not normal because life is a zero sum game. We can’t live without others no matter how much the neocon ideology tries to persuade us otherwise

      I want to live in a society and not a cut throat dog eat dog world

      • Tony Brogan

        Good day Pauldiv.
        Ah but it is about individualism. does not the individual often decide that he/she is better off in or within a group endevour. Is that not how tribal groupings formed or indeed nation states.

        The problems are how to organize groupings that benefit the individuals rather than have the group dictating to the individual with the negative results.

        That is why I have largely become libertarian in my thinking. The individual retains the right to do anything they want at any time. Mitigated by the fact that as I believe all people have that right then my actions must do nothing to impare those rights.

        This forces me to give way to others when there is a conflict but not so much that I allow myself to be over run.

        After you Pauldiv, will you please go first. Thank you. Then would develop a cooperative cohesive polite society with each individual striving for the best for themselves but not at the expense of others.

        So Pauldiv, what am I missing here :)?

      • Colin

        Please define individualism. Then I can grapple with whether I agree with you or not on this.

  19. I was pleased to read this article because it tells the truth and we have to deal with the ugly truths we are storing up for our future society. Inequality is rising and that tells us all we need to know about the priorities of Irish politicians

    After the tosh I read in the Indo last week about the virtues of being part of the Austerity drive the voice of reason finally breaks through. There is no virtue in wondering where you next pair of shoes is coming from beleve me and I know that the author realises this. There is humanity between those lines

    I was tramping the streets of Sligo with a camera last week and it quickly became clear that the theme of the afternoons work was urban decay. Raw and gritty reality. It is sad to see how much this town has gone down hill in a few short years

    There is despair all around. People have had the shit kicked out of them spiritually and emotionally and now they just don’t care any more. They know they are the forgotten ones and they will remember how this country left them looking through the glass as the cushy inner sanctum of the insiders. A bloody disgrace

    • Tony Brogan

      “Inequality is rising and that tells us all we need to know about the priorities of Irish politicians”

      It is the banking syatem Pauldiv. And not restricted to Ireland.
      The policy of controlled inflation still allows for inflation. Inflation is a stealth tax affecting the poor more than anyone else.
      Inflation is the increase in the money supply. Those who are the closest to the issuance of the new currency are the beneficiaries.
      Thus the rich get richer, the poor relatively poorer and the middleclass squeezed out of existance.
      Politicians generally like most of us do not understand this and they, as well, are able to fund goodies to the electorate to be re-elected without inceasing taxes, and they receive campaign donations from those who benefit from inflation.

      Close the central bank. Ban fractional reserve banking. Return to a non inflationary money system.

      • Thanks Tony. You are right about one thing. Politicians have no power over bankers or the wealthy who play the financial system to their benefit. The system works for the few like it always has done and needs changing pronto

  20. CorkPlasticPaddy

    Couldn’t agree more with what you had to say Pauldiv and that’s how it’s been since the foundation of the state.Those at the top have stayed there on the backs of everyone else.You didn’t see the ‘insiders’ emigrating in droves during the 50′s and 60′s, did you? They just kept on making their money and to hell with everyone else and it’ll stay that way until people come to their senses and start hitting the insiders where it’ll hurt most, in their wallets!!

    • Thanks. I’m glad I have not been wasting breath.
      It is worse than in Scotland where your surname can make or break a job application. This lot are far worse than masons and probalby more dangerous. No wonder many of the diaspora hate them with a passion

      • bonbon

        How’s that about the surnames?

        • Work it out Bonbon. It is not rocket science.

          • Colin

            Be nice and explain it Pauldiv. No such thing as a stupid question.

          • I am working on being nice Colin because I know that what I say can effect others. With the state of people’s minds today we need to be very careful how we word things. Compassion is everything brother

            All the surnames in my primary class were from Irish counties. Cavanagh, Divers, Docherty, Donnelly, McDermott, McGrane, Smyth and so on. There were one or two Scottish surnames such as Henderson and Watt

            In Scotland it is easy to guess what school someone attended based on their surname. If someone asks you outright what school you went to they can accurately guess your religion. It is a blatant form of racial discrimination and everyone knows it. However Irish immigrants buckled down and rose to the top positions in their professions. If you are good you will get a crack at the whip

            If someone ever asks me that question I tell them I went to the school of life and to kindly mind their own business

            I am 47 year of age and what school I attended it irrelevant

            I hope that answers the question guys

          • bonbon

            I thought such feudal leftovers were a thing of the past. Maybe that is why SNP want to make a clean break.

          • The SNP are also known as The Tartan Tories however I’ve never thought of them as being Tory. Tell you the truth I’ve never really thought much about them and what they stand for. I live in Ireland now

            If they did make a clean break from the past then I would say well done guys. But there is a social disease lurking under the fluffy political soundbites

            The immigrant Irish lit up Scotland since the famine and their contribution to sport, the arts and the professions is undisputed. It was hard fought for and there has always been a grudging acceptance of our spirit. The Irish were always unwanted outsiders in that part of the world but they have come far. Very far

            For a culture to stamp it’s identity in the most protestant country on the planet is a massive achievement and it should gladden the heart of any Irish person who is currently experiencing feelings of inferiority

            Keep the Faith

          • bonbon

            Social diseases proliferate when there is no progress. Identifying the blocks to progress is a political issue, and the first step to dealing with such problems. This is why social theory fails.

            For example one can cure typhus cases one-by-one, have full employment as a doctor or grave digger. But to change the water supply, drain swamps, puts those doctors out of that work, but actually stops the disease. That’s real out-of-the-box (where typhus cases ended) thinking!

          • bonbon

            Have a look at the Scotland paragraph here to see how deep the Irish connection goes


          • The connection is very deep bonbon but it does not detract from the fact that the Irish in Scotland have been the victims of instututional racism to this day

          • bonbon

            What would we do without Scotland? Robert Burns put it beautifully, and this is powerful poetry-

            A Man’s A Man For A’ That (1795)

            Is there for honest Poverty
            That hings his head, an’ a’ that;
            The coward slave-we pass him by,
            We dare be poor for a’ that!
            For a’ that, an’ a’ that.
            Our toils obscure an’ a’ that,
            The rank is but the guinea’s stamp,
            The Man’s the gowd for a’ that.

            What though on hamely fare we dine,
            Wear hoddin grey, an’ a that;
            Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
            A Man’s a Man for a’ that:
            For a’ that, and a’ that,
            Their tinsel show, an’ a’ that;
            The honest man, tho’ e’er sae poor,
            Is king o’ men for a’ that.

            Ye see yon birkie, ca’d a lord,
            Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that;
            Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
            He’s but a coof for a’ that:
            For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
            His ribband, star, an’ a’ that:
            The man o’ independent mind
            He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.

            A prince can mak a belted knight,
            A marquis, duke, an’ a’ that;
            But an honest man’s abon his might,
            Gude faith, he maunna fa’ that!
            For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
            Their dignities an’ a’ that;
            The pith o’ sense, an’ pride o’ worth,
            Are higher rank than a’ that.

            Then let us pray that come it may,
            (As come it will for a’ that,)
            That Sense and Worth, o’er a’ the earth,
            Shall bear the gree, an’ a’ that.
            For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
            It’s coming yet for a’ that,
            That Man to Man, the world o’er,
            Shall brothers be for a’ that.

        • Great stuff from the bard himself bonbon

  21. bdecuc

    So David is highlighting something that has been obvious for a long while – wage rates are not falling across the economy. So public sector employees who have taken serious pay cuts in this recession to date and who are struggling to survive day to day might rightly feel that the constant calls for further reductions to their wages are a little hard to stomach..

    • Reality Check

      I had to re-read that again; “Public sector emploiyees who have taken serious pay cuts in this recession to date”

      Ha ha ha ha ha, ho ho ho ho ho ho ho, Hee hee hee hee hee
      Please stop you’re hurting me.
      Ha ha ha ha, ho ho ho ho, hee hee hee hee.
      stop, stop the laughter is killing me!
      Thank god you didn’t ruin the moment spouting the usual pavlovian PS response “Public sector bashing”

  22. straboe1

    David,to quote from your article “There is also a public-versus -private disparity since the recession began. The average weekly paid hours in the public sector fell by 1.6pc since 2008 but weekly wages in the private sector fell by 5.7pc.” There is nodirect connection between these figures. Wages in the public sector over that period fell by more than the 5.7% than they did in the private sector. I’m disapointed with what you wrote, I hope it was a error on your part and that you will clarify this as soon as possible.

    • Reality Check

      Utter lies and you know it, you could at least provide us with some amusement like the previous poster “Serious pay cuts by the PS”
      Oh you guys should go back to playing tetris at “work” or enjoy your long holidays instead of playing the victim – NOBODY BELIEVES YOU ANYMORE.

      Weather is looking good outside

  23. I disagree with you article here. You have narrowed the debade down to A & B and ignored C, D, E etc.

    The debade should no be about lowering wages of the employed to reduce the longterm employed.

    The debade should be about decapitating the elite, banksters, polititions, tax exiles etc who have legged it with most of the wealth. We need to reclaim these resorses from these scum and return it to the people of Ireland.

  24. piombo

    Allow me to think out of the box for a moment on this very relevant article.
    Essentially, it is the equivalent of NAMAISING the under-employed human resources of our country.
    How about converting unemployment benefit into a state wage and that the unemployed be hired by a State HR agency. This agency could then use it’s bargaining power to offer it’s contractors into both the public and private sectors at a break-even cost plus a 10% margin to pay overheads and ongoing training etc.,
    Using an inverted sliding rule these contracts would be fixed time contracts, ie., the younger the shorter eg., people under 35 – six months and non-renewable; 36-45 – twelve months and renewable once and so on right up until pension age.
    No one gets left behind voluntarily!
    With this system, we could wipe the floor of India and elsewhere in terms of providing low-cost yet valued contributing people to the Services industry on a Global scale.
    Would welcome ideas.
    If it works, we could christen it the McWilliams curve as an alternative to the horrendous Philips Curve!

    • Piombo,

      Can you expand a bit on this idea if you have the time. I like it.



      • joe hack

        Sounds like a great way to get highly skilled workers with years of experience to work for €180 a week-a two tier work force-exploitation on a grand scale-welcome to slavery. How about job rotation -you give up your job and someone else could take it for six months, then may be your replacement might suggest you work for 180 euro a week. Or we could go back to the 18 century when things were real good for the 1%.

        Seriously have thought this true? Yes I can see all those highly experience people cueing up to sign up to such a plan, solicitor, engineers and others… lets work for 180 a week while others get 1000 to 3000 you have a strange vision of a society. Keep pulling that ladder up and one day you will fall off it, with no way back up.

        • bonbon

          That’s what Monti is trying to do in Italy – a Goldman-Sachs Wall Street hitman.

          Italy’s cowardly parliament just ratified the ESM. Now the only country in the EU resisting this is Germany. There is a deep misgiving that this is again the march to labor camps, RAD (Reichsarbeitdienst – Government Work Service that Hjalmar Schacht, Hitler’s economics minister from the Basel Bank of International Settlements, instituted).

    • Philip

      Employability is not just a function of cost. A knowledge skillset has a global price. Indian of a given knowledge skillset is the same price as a German. This is the one thing many fail to understand and it is something a lot of corporations are starting to realise as they find the previously cheap skills racking up in costs to be similar to rest of the world.

      We are facing the rather brutal reality that those of us who are not of sufficient skills fall by the wayside permanently. Long term employed are that way for the hard fact that they have nothing to offer. Now I know it is a little more complex than that.

      There is another more alarming reality – we have an inappropriate skillset mix for thos little Island of ours. It’d not be too difficult to find the master of . being employed as a petrol pump attendant.

      This idea of yours needs a built-in a proper re-skilling/ personal re-development program.

      I have to say though, judging by the way this country’s civil service works, it would be an agency which would be innefficient and run by government appointed incompetent idiots. We are simply not ethical or value driven enough to see this work to everyone’s best interests.

    • Bloody good idea.
      Team Green and all that.

      • Adam Byrne

        It’s a constructive, progressive and even revolutionary idea Piombo, therefore it is not required nor desired by the powers that be in this particular banana republic.

    • bonbon

      Unfortunately this is a pre-industrial idea heading straight for the Work houses we had then. Much better to look at FDR’s Tennessee Valley Authority, based on the Shannon Scheme here, and the way he financed it. Look at the North American Water and Power Alliance, and at out Shannon Deep Harbor.

      The way to do this is the nation creates an Authority, using Hamiltonian public credit to repair the damage done by 40 years of physical economic collapse. Treat the economy as the aftermath of a war with a Marshall Plan, as Germany did with the KfW – Reconstruction Credit Bank.

      I think your idea panders to the current regime and can have only one result.

      Instead do not pander to the cowards in power, the Monti’s of the gang.

    • joe hack

      Lets undercut those living in the slums of Mumbai exploit them more in a race to the bottom, what did the Indian people ever do to you?
      Am I been simplistic, Yes I am, in response to simplicity. Is it Ignorance, stupidity or is it you don’t give a toss about the others guy?

      Why didn’t you suggest we open up a weapons factory and agitate wars to sell our goods that would be good for the economy . how much food do you need on your table?

    • Tony Brogan

      Would this be mandatory or volunteer.
      Would you lose your benefits if you did not participate.
      Is it a form of conscription to a Corp of volunteers doing public works.
      Are they allowed to compete in the private sector thus putting others out of work.
      how are they paid if the state is in an annual deficit and in debt

    • Tony Brogan

      Is this to be mandatory or voluntary

      do you lose benefits if you do not paticipate

      Is it to be a form of conscription where people work on doing public works

      do they compete in the private sector or just against other counties.

      how are they paid if the state is in an annual deficit and has a large national debt

      Is this like the famine time where those in the workhouses received enough pay in a week to feed them for a day

  25. gizzy

    Have you looked at jobs.ie recently. There are a huge amount of Banking jobs on offer almost all in the restructure area of lending. So we now have it Banks bailed out, balance sheets stabilised, now outright pursual of borrowers who can’t get bailed out because they are not in a sector deemed strategic. Own a Bank get a bailout, own a hotel get out and the bailed out Bank takes your hotel.

    End game the last three generations of employers in serious danger of losing everything,advisors to coin it in and the governmant to stand back and watch.

    People may avail of new bankruptcy. People I have met tend to be in mid fifties in business thirty years, borrowed in last ten years to expand business (not propety investment.)Not easy to start over.

    This government only intersested in multi nationals,banks, professional advisors, farmers, themselves and their civil servants. Nobody else matters.

  26. bonbon

    Very good that people here have not lost focus :

    Pair hired to clean up Irish banks named in HSBC scandal!

    THE Irish Government faces huge embarrassment today after two key figures appointed to help clean up the Irish financial system were named in an explosive US investigation into global banking giant HSBC.

    Chairman of state-owned AIB David Hodgkinson, and Michael Noonan‘s top NAMA adviser Michael Geoghegan, are both named in a 330-page report that follows an investigation into HSBC by a US Senate subcommittee set up in the wake of the 9/11 terrorist attack on New York.

    HSBC is accused of “playing fast and loose with US banking rules” between 2004 and 2010 by US Senator Carl Levin, a key ally of US President Barack Obama, who chaired the team that published the report. Top NAMA adviser Michael Geoghegan was HSBC’s most senior executive for almost the entire period now under investigation.

    The current AIB chairman was the bank’s chief operating officer between 2006 and 2008 and before that ran its Middle East business.

    Last night a spokeswoman for AIB said the bank had no concerns over the case.

    “David Hodgkinson is not a person of interest in this inquiry. There is nothing for the bank to consider.”

    • gizzy

      The law is on their side morale high ground they take with their customers is shocking. Michael Noonan harps on about morale hazard when it comes to mortgage debt forgiveness. Whose effing morales Michael?

  27. We now live in a Irish society known as Economic Apartheid .

    • Colin

      i’ve been banging on about that here for 4 years now.

      • You’ve been banging on about a lot of things for 4 years

        • Colin

          “This financial apartheid might be one of the lasting legacies of the boom. If so, it will undermine our prosperity and hamper efforts to reinvigorate the economy. No society ever borrowed its way to wealth and, if a class gulf emerges in financial management, the lotto class will get poorer, depending solely on luck.”

          20/07/2008 – David McWilliams

          That’s 4 years to the day Pauldiv, that David’s been banging on about it too.

  28. bonbon

    And more on HSBC, the original, unaltered Dope Inc bank, right now in a finance dept near you.

    Key players in Irish finance enjoyed long careers with HSBC

    MICHAEL Geoghegan and David Hodgkinson are two of the most important figures in Irish finance, but their business careers go back much further than their current positions at the Department of Finance and Allied Irish Banksrespectively.

    A Dubliner, Mr Geoghegan joined HSBC at the age of 20 in 1973 and moved through the ranks until he was appointed to the top job in the firm in 2006.

    While Mr Geoghegan has been tasked with guiding NAMA, Mr Hodgkinson is now trying to sort out state-owned AIB.

    He joined HSBC in 1969 and held a number of positions, most notably in the Middle East, before becoming chief operating officer of the bank in 2006. He joined AIB as executive chairman in December 2010 and led the search for a new boss.

    For a full dossier on how banking, not to mind LIBOR, actually operates, see the new edition of Dope, Inc.

  29. Sometimes the past tells us about tomorrow just like yesterday reminded us about something a long time ago .Today is all we think about because we are too busy to know why anything else matters .

    I am reminded in my recollection of what I studied in economic history that period when Europe was a ‘feudal order’after the fall or the Roman Empire .This was a highly extractive system where the peasants were serfs and the King was judge , bishop and police .Serfs were in a ‘tied system’ with severe committment and much unpaid .

    Subsequent to the Great Plague resulting in many deaths this feudal order was shook and labour scarcity became an issue and empowered the peasants to make more demands and cost of labour rose thus necessitating the Government to pass a new order Statute of Labourers to fix the price to assist the Lords (employers) empowering them to imprison any peasant who leaves to go to another employer.

    A Revolt broke out and the Rebels under the leadership of Wat Tyler captured most of London though they were ultimately defeated and Tyler was executed .However there were no more attempts to enforce the Statute of Labourers again. As a result feudal labour dwingled away and and an inclusive labor market began to emerge in England and wages rose .

    Questions :

    What is our Plague?

    Who is our Wat Tyler ?

    What is our Statute of Labours ?

    What is our Revolt ?

    What is our extractive system ?

    What should be our inclusive system ?

    What is our ‘tied system’ ?

    It is interesting to note that Eastern Europe did not have a Wat Tyler thus after the Plague their feudal system became stronger and their monachies too .We all know why the Communist subsequently came to powere in Eastern Europe now and not in the West.

    Are we creating another vacuum for another Revolt we rather would not have ?

    • bonbon

      And the Soviet imploded bankrupt, a joke compared to the bankruptcy now of the globalized transatlantic-centered doomed system. The march from Leipzig which toppled the wall was a world-record. Not a shot was fired.

      Time for another march, peaceful, but with a very clear demand – Glass-Steagall for bankers who must be jailed for LIBOR, and drug-running. Who needs the TBTF’s? We will do fine without them.

    • Brilliant opening sentence but it’s gets more interesting when you google it John. A talented poster recently came up with an original – Apathy is Raging. Brilliant

      Imprisonment if you want to change employer. Sounds pretty reasonable to me John and quite right too. How about two months in the Joy for anyone even thinking about it. Just to get their minds right you understand

      Where are our heroes indeed

      I used to have lots of heroes who were Irish but I don’t now. I grew up and saw it for what it was and i was painful

  30. You make me think and that is why your work is valuable. Because it’s valuable is the reason you receive flak. Take the flak and keep doing it because the more flak you get the more it will convince you that you are doing a proper job. Tommy Burns knew all about flak

    Keep hustling for work and keep trying. We need small entrepreneurs who can show us what is possible using a brain and little resources. The white heat of the technological revolution has arrived 50 years after Wilson coined the term. For anyone with the self belief and energy it is possible to get the hell out of here. All it takes is something genuine and authentic to achieve the dream of self sufficiency and financial freedom

    I used to believe but I got tired believing and believing became tiresome, personally

    Maybe we need to step back and forget about the insiders for a while. We know the story and keep repeating the obvious. Maybe we should leave them to their fate and concentrate more on what we can do individually and collaboratively

    Why don’t we expand on what outsiders are doing. Like one of our fraternity who is making use of freely available tools and his brain to make a modest income. Now that inspires me more than the words from any politico and MSM time server

  31. gizzy

    I do not think a lot of Irish indiginous businesses will withstand another tough budget. I believe a lot are staying open by delaying or not paying rent rates prsi or vat. They are only staying open because they have no safety net. It cannot last however. More and more will close with another incease in unemployment in next twelve months.

  32. joe hack

    With reference to David’s Article and Preind’s response above,

    I said before in there is work, but there are those who would opt see others on the dole rather that take a pay cut, but when they do they then end up paying more taxes to pay for people on the dole and in turn they may support dole and pension cuts so as to reduce their tax liabilities, this is a zero sum game.

    There is obviously more long term advantages to keeping people employed than on the dole.

    The issue is not about cutting the dole, low vs. high wages it is about a leadership and community sprit which is lacking it is not about unions or private vs. public.

    It is about dare I say it “nationalism” community

    Preind and David as employers should also note that excessive profits at the top is a leadership issue, it is not there sole responsibility as individual employers to the run the country that is the job of governments and more so the people.

    Individualism is a social disaster both for the employer and the employee and moreover it is not in the best interest healthy society, as a measure of success the amount of money someone has is at the heart of this, at the higher end the bankers bonuses show how flawed this is, at the lower money wise that is-community involved people live on little but give more than most moneyed people ever have.

    It is interesting to note that “Preind’s” mention of his group of five workers who were willing to share the their incomes to save a jobs is the inverse of those isolated from the rest of the workforce ‘the managers’, he also mentions no unions were involved, his observations goes to the heart of the mess that we-the Irish are in.

    We have continued the individualisation of our society; we have isolated ourselves from our neighbours, sure it’s his own fault he/she is this or that, this is said in attempt to justify.

  33. joe hack

    I really like this opinion piece by David- more that any I have read, I would love to have the time to discuss and criticize but my typing skills are stopping me, it is a topic that should be a national and international debate but I think our 3 minute culture will not allow, well it used to be 3 minutes I don’t know what it is now- by the time I have typed a response it will be old news-SAD tell I am wrong?

    Why do we not have a national forum on our society o do we have a society that cares enough- oh Yae!- the whine line is open…

    • Tony Brogan

      When I read that sick leave is in fact 6 months possible I am astonished. sick leave is for a sickness all else is longterm disability.

      The idea of sick leave was to have a paid day or two of rest while the other benefit to the employer was that the rest of the staff would not be also infected by a sick person still at work.

      disability is covered in BC Canada by private insurance paid for according to contract. either fully paid for as a benefit of employment, or partially covered or fully paid by the employee.

      I live near a ferry treminal from Vancouver Island to the mainland and it is amazing how busy the ferry system is on a friday morning as lots of people extend the weekend by an extra day. A goodly portion are pensioners and another lot are government, or large corporate enployees taking a sick day claim to get a 3 day weekend with Friday on full pay.

      not long ago there were settlements negotiated to people in cash or in extended vacations time based on unused sick time. It became recognized for what it was in many cases. An extra two weeks of paid holiday.

      • It astonished me too. Then I read the article about the guy who used to pay a grand in taxes and is now living in hostel

        The inequality in Ireland is a disgrace

  34. Tony Brogan

    I have twice written a posting and submitted only to find my net connection had terminated and the comments were lost.

    a few minites ago I wrote an extensive piece in the reply box. It took considerable thought and effort.

    I sumitted to be informed I need to be logged in. If I am not logged in I do not have a box to write in so this time the system blitzed me.

    Together with the removal of previous comments by the blog. Not once but twice leads me in a sad state of mind.

    I have wasted too much valuable time and energy to continue.

    By the way in a nut shell. your proposal to have the government spend borrowed money is exaCTLY WHAT CAUSED THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. Dumb Idea, Dumb solution. Einstein’s definition of insanity!

    There is no hope of any real solution from this blog. So I will be the individual so despised and look after myself first which is what I have always had to do. Ireland’s problem is it is saturated and suffocated with socialism.

    when I am in Ireland later this year I will post once more to see if anyone would like a chin wag and a brew

    I will be on my bike and looking for a place to camp and may be a small acreage. (I will not be like the chacter in “The Field”)

    • bonbon

      The Austrian School, as is well known, has no solution. It is a monetarist approach essentially that of the British Central banking point of view. Money as property or a commodity is pure London School of Economics.

      Credit, as Hamilton defined in the US Constitution, is the reply to this monetarism. But first Glass-Steagall to clean up the mess.

      That’s a solution mentioned in this blog. It is incorrect to claim none exist because of some disagreement. The other”solution” – austerity has been thoroughly lambasted for sheer incompetence here many times.

    • Adam Byrne

      Save in Word or Notepad as you are writing your posts Tony, then transfer them over at the last minute. Never trust an online field like this.

  35. Tony Brogan


    Listen to what Ron Paul said years ago. Accurate foracts as a free market economist..Nobody listened then either.

  36. Tony Brogan

    This site has done it the second time tonight.
    I am logged in, write an entry and when I post it says sorry you have to be logged in. another essay gone up in smoke!

    Get the thing fixed or stuff it.

    You will be stuck with the deceit of bon bon and his untrue statements about austrian economics, his misleading inferences on Hamiltonian banking. Hamilton was a centrist banker and lawyer. He formed the the First bank of the US. Had it create money out of thin air on credit. Issued bonds that it never intended to repay: started of the national debt. etc.

    Austrians believe in a free economy and a sound money system.

    Now a person as bright as bon bon appears to be and as well informed as he seems would know better than to promote falsehoods.

    I think it is done deliberately to mislead and confuse. you have a mole on the blog to propagandize a solution that is ineffective, promote policy that is more of the same and will lead to a continuation of the current failures. In otherwords to create confusion.

    There is no solution to the current crisis . Every boom has its busts and we will have a bust. get rid of the debt by payment, default or arrangement but not until then will the economy recover. You know as an individual that you can not thrive until the millstone is released. It is the same for a nation.

    • StephenKenny

      The problem is probably a connectivity one, rather than with WordPress, which is very widely used. For myself, I use Evernote when writing longer pieces, with a final copy and paste when all is done. If you don’t know it, I would recommend it.

      My view on the past 5 years is that it has displayed the flaws in the last 40 years. These flaws are not so much with the principles of the post Bretton Woods system, but with the unintended consequences – the ease with which the system can be subverted. Had I been asked even three years ago, I would have said that these unintended consequences were also unforeseen consequences. It now seems increasingly clear that this is not the case: they were clearly foreseen, and intended.

      The problem we face is that the system is completely compromised, and it is not clear that there is anyone at all, in any position of authority, who is not part of the problem.

      As all essentially corrupted systems will, this system will collapse. This is not a happy thought, as it will involve significant conflict, as the old regime drowns in the quagmire of its own corruption. I’m not for a moment suggesting that this will necessarily be physical conflict, but just a lot of bad things happening to most people.

      The most obvious will be the realisation that essentially all pensions will have very little buying power, and will not enable people to stop working. This will be especially shocking for those in the public sector, who are repeatedly reassured.

      Academic economists talk about this system or that, with no consideration given to the practical applicability of each, in this case, the ease with which a system can be corrupted and compromised.

      • The most obvious will be the realisation that essentially all pensions will have very little buying power

        It is their ultimate goal to achieve that Stephen!

        It is part of the Neo Feudalism they are implementing and they even speak openly about it. They?

        Well yes, they are the 0,01 % who have an interest in achieving this goal.

        Carlos Slim:

        The contrary should happen, we should gear down this machine, apply different parameters, different values, productivity as such is a dead end, productivity is economists jabber, short sighted, narrow views of global interdependencies, resources and societal structures.

        • Tony Brogan

          Retirement is a personal decision. some will be erly and some will never.
          At issue is the provision of state pensions. canada has legislated the age to move to 67.
          Carlos slim is correct. When retirement at 65 was proposed the life expectancy was 67 for males. It is now 78 or so. The reirement pay to be supported has gone up 5 fold and as the tidal wave of baby boomer retirements hit.
          ii expect to live to 105 and so my retirement time will nearly equal my working life. That is the luxury position I am in .
          for all our problems we live in a very rich society.

          But we do not need to be controled by the elites. Now we know the problem it can be resolved.

          • bonbon

            Slim is likely the richest man living. While Mexico is ravaged by drug warfare( abetted by Obama’s gun walking), with desertification and bio-fuel production raising the cost of food and lowering life expectancy.

            Why quote this oracle?

          • Adam Byrne

            He’s being vilified here. It’s not about individuals. If he wasn’t the monarch, then it would be someone else. It’s the system that’s fucked, not the people.

      • bonbon

        Unintended? Are you paid to defend the system? Like its just all a big mistake, a misunderstanding?

        Look at the effect, who benefits, and who had the capability to roll back Bretton-Woods, Glass-Steagall, both FDR’s legacy to the post-WWII world. And then do not try to imply is was a mistake!

        Sounds like Noonan – he has HSBC Dope Inc advisors now in place. He will claim he could not have known!

        • Tony Brogan

          Read Stephen’s post again.
          you missed
          “It now seems increasingly clear that this is not the case: they were clearly foreseen, and intended”

          • bonbon

            Read my post – Machiavelli’s 3 basic questions. So why is there a delay? Being popular is why.

      • Tony Brogan

        Hello Stephen

        The only two politicians I have noted that are not corrupted are Nigel Farage the EMP and Ron Paul. We also recently see the election to the US senate of Rand Paul who espouses similar policies to his father.

        I am afraid that the policiies are as you have realized, deliberate, with intended consequences. When we see this we know who the enemy of the people is.

    • Tony,

      it is a cult! LarouchePac is nothing but a ultra right wing cult, demagogues and rat catchers, preying on the undereducated, the angry and confused, and they have a lot of prey around these days.

    • Use a text editor or a personal wiki for your writing.
      Take control. All web sites have irritating flaws and idiosyncracies

      As for moles they would need to very very sharp to mislead some of the people on here

      • Tony Brogan

        Hi Pauldiv
        I have realized that a quick solution is to highlight all and click a copy before doing anything else. It is a quick form of saving that can then be repasted.
        Thanks for your suggestions.

    • Tony

      Sorry about that. I will ask Sue who runs the technical side. Please don’t despair.



      • Tony Brogan

        Thank you David for taking note.
        Thank you to all who have proferred solutions.
        Thank you to those who have offered support.
        My thoughts on this thread is that it is the best yet. It contains the best writing and inovative ideas, shows initiative and individual responsibility.
        The standard is the highest since I have been a contributor.

        Now we must change the politics of the country. That can only be done with a new political movement. When the time is right it will appear.

        Individual selfreliance must be coupled with social awareness. The best example I can think of were the Canadian homesteaders of the late 1800 and early 1900.

        In the North Peace country of Northern BC it was settled in the 1920′s onward. People staked bare land and went to work to gain survival and a living.

        in the late 1960′s I was agricultural contracting and met a number of those people and their families.
        Each was self reliant with a multiplicity of skills. Each was aware of their neighbour. all attended community events to which they contributed. If a neighbour suffered distress such as a fire all would rally around and voluntarly rebuild the structure.

        There were no “safety nets”, people looked after each other. Indolence was not tolerated.

        We must be rid of the nanny state yet care for each other.

        On the other hand my sister is farming in Devon, England, for 40 years. Married to a local farmer lad and starting with a few cows and small acreage have worked hard and steadily to grow to a milking herd of 140 cows plus followers. They have raised 3 chidren and have 8 grandchildren.

        The three all received advanced education. The two boys came home and built a dairy on the farm from scratch and reverted to a door step delivery system and produce milk, butter, cream, clotted cream (yum, yum) yogurt etc. They have 1500 customers.

        The boys now young men with families buy all the milk from the farm for a modest premium over that obtainable from the milk marketing board, buy milk froma local dairy as well.

        Success yes. The daily grind is enormous. 18 hour days are common.

        Meanwhile they are beset by regulation after regulation from the bureaucracy of the EU as well as local authorities.

        Actual income for the parents (sister and husband) is about 2000 pounds each. The dairy makes money but again the hours are huge.

        Recently there was a deluge creating a flood. The silage pit filled and effluent moved to the ditches. emergency work stopped the flow with anything athand even manure piles.

        The good citizen made a report to the authorities. The bereaucrat pompously declred that they had had a previous warning in 1995 and fined them 5000 pounds.
        I am told that farmers must report how much fertilizer goes on the fields. This included the droppings from grazing livestock! so now a record must be taken of every time a cow shits or a sheep poops.

        this is what it has come to. suffocating regulation by total strangers alien to a way of life. penalties imposed on the hardest working most productive people.

        all at a time of inflation and rising food costs.

        This has got to stop. It is serfdom at its basic level.
        All is distorted.

        BTY I do not despair. I fight back and I always survive. There is always way, there is always an alternative.

        “What the mind can conceive, and believe, it can achieve.”–Napoleon Hill in “Think and Grow Rich” written in the 1920′s

        • Adam Byrne

          There’s a bit I don’t understand in this post Tony.

          You say that they have a dairy so why are they buying milk from elsewhere? What am I missing?



          • Tony Brogan

            Their sales of retail products now exceed the production from the farm so they buy extra milk from another dairy (wholesale priced)to make up the shortfall which they then bottle etc.
            The have also used the old style glass rather than disposable plastic.

          • Adam Byrne

            You could have said that then Tony because it was downright confusing originally.

            What’s the glass breakage expense like vis-a-vis using plastic in terms of costs?

          • Tony Brogan

            Well I am sorry about that Adam. Sometimes I reread
            what I’ve written three times and still do not see the spelling mistakes and typos.
            Of course i had all the arrangements in my head and it seemed ok to me at the time. now you point it out it is an error.

        • bonbon

          Willing to fight? Well then take on von Hayek’s Road to Serfdom, with an honest appraisal. Needs steely nerves though. As I pointed out Hayek’s very own admission repeated more than once, the Austrian School (favored by Ron Paul) is based on Mandeville’s “Fable of the Bees” or the “Grumbling Hive” – nothing to do with a modern agro-industrial society.

          It is embarrassing to see a Presidential Candidate propounding this (but the others are no better).

          • Tony Brogan

            Why don’t you talk specifics instead of quoting a whole ream of names and theses which others have to research and then guess at what you mean.

            You obfuscate very effectively.

          • bonbon

            No wiggle room or guessing needed. Hayek clearly defined the specific economics of the Austrian School. Amply spelled out in this blog. It boils down to a wild-eyed belief in spontaneous unknowable order arising out of the usual free play of vice – well exemplified by HSBC’s continuing drug laundering, specifically under investigation now – free market as Mandeville and Hayek intended. Or the free manipulation of LIBOR producing fabulous growth.

            Glass-Steagall messes up the Grumbling Hive of the fabled bees, and they swarm to sting. Too bad.

          • Tony Brogan

            No wiggle room or guessing needed. Hayek clearly defined the specific economics of the Austrian School. Amply spelled out in this blog. It boils down to a wild-eyed belief in spontaneous unknowable order arising out of the usual free play of vice — well exemplified by HSBC’s continuing drug laundering, specifically under investigation now — free market as Mandeville and Hayek intended. Or the free manipulation of LIBOR producing fabulous growth.

            All the derivatives are nothing to do with austrian economics or the principles of sound money.
            The problems are the elite money behind the central banking system. a problem to consistantly ignore.
            Remove the central banking system. curtail fractional reserve banking. Let the casino bankers fail and shrivel.
            Besides Paul has his policies and he does not label them Austrian so why do you insist on doing so.Oh I see now, you make a NOT TOO SUBTLE CONECTION BETWEEN AUSTRIANS AND VICE. What nasty piece of goods would be so wicked as to try to soil a reputation thus?.

          • bonbon

            Hayek based his theory on Mandeville’s Grumbling Hive, titled Private Vice, Public Virtue. That is a fact. Out of liberal unregulated activity, including usury, vice, will spring spontaneously in an unknowable way (wild eyed) public good. Trying to control vice such as LIBOR, drug laundering with “sound money” makes them laugh. Better for bee keepers to shake up that hive with Glass-Steagall, decidedly non liberal. I presume Ron Paul just cannot condone Glass-Steagall because of the wild-eyed belief in spontaneous “good”. To cover this basic belief in magic “sound money” does give an aura of rationality.

          • Tony Brogan

            Sometimes you are lucid and at others incomprehensible.

    • bonbon

      I agree wth DMcW – do not despair, even when Ron Paul has no concept of what to do, as the von Mises School neither has. But that is just one point of view.

      Glass-Steagall is the way for nation-states first to hadle this acute problem, and then to apply Hamiltonian banking priciples on a wde scale fast to rebuild te shattered economy. We have the solutions at hand. And it is a political solution, not mere numbers games.

      There is nothing to despair about but despair itself!

      • Tony Brogan

        I do not despair. I am retired. I have enough to live modestly. I have a couple of ailments but I am fitter than most including those half or a quarter my age.
        i have been a millionaire and bust one after the other and more than once. I have worked 80-100 weeks and taken months at a time off. I have many successes and more failures.
        I have been self employed 30 years and had a staff of 20 at times.
        I have been rewarded with friends but do not tolerate bullies. My past employees have told me it was the best job they ever had even though my pay scales were lower than average.

        I do not despair. I have had a good life so far, many disappointments, and there is a lot more to come. I expect to live another 35 years so I had better do something with it and I will.

        If I have to work again I will. .

        Ron Paul is the only one with a plan to do anything about US imperialism and adventurism. He is the only one who understands the principle of sound money. He has more intergity than all others added together.
        He will repair the country and allow the economy to recover should he be elected

        And that is not a point of view or abstract but a demonstrated fact.

        Paul will audit the FED and likely close it down. He will withdraw the American troops from foreign lands.
        He will promote individual freedom and responsibility,
        He will return government to the priciples of the constitution. What is not to like about that?

        but I see you are against the only person who has suggested curtailing the very empire you rave against.
        you do not complain that nobody else has a plan. You just pick on Paul. That indicates to me that you have an ulterior motive. I wonder what that could be?

        • bonbon

          Since tis is an economics blog, Ron Paul’s economics are not up to scratch. First he fails to identify imperialism, the British Empire, secondly he fails to honor Alexander Hamilton’s Credit Clause of the US Constitution. To his credit he did not vote to repeal Glass-Steagall in 1999, but fails to endorse the bill going through the House to re-instate it.

          Currently a typical American problem, praising the very economics that brought the downfall. The biography of von Mises of the Austrian School, by Ron Paul, shows and inadequate pondering on that school’s economics. There is no wiggle room. Hayek’s own admission is damning.
          Ron Paul’s populist (even if correct on military matters) pandering to liberalism, is British. Just like Geihner bailing out Barclays and HSBS.

          • Tony Brogan

            We are tgalking american imperilism not sone abstract thing called british empire?
            Why would he honor Hamiltons centrist banking credit based debt producing banking system It is what he is against in the here and now

            The second paragraph is gobbly gook to me.
            The last two sentences are bizarre, even outragious contortions. Your mind is clouded and not making sense. Liberalism, british, Geithner, barclays, HSBC.
            What are you suggesting, I do not follow your logic, reasoning or statements. Is Paul a british liberal in agreement with bailing out banks. Or you mean Geithner is british as he bails out banks.(English banks too that are mentioned)
            Ouch, my head hurts, I need a seditive.
            funny I thought Paul is basically a libertarian, an American and against bailing out anyone or anything.

          • bonbon

            Ron Paul is hard core Austrian School, like his son Rand. That school is not American, rather part of the British London School of Economics. British Empire, for those who claim to have no history, included most of Wall Street and that is well documented. Go back to Aaron Burr, Andrew Jackson… to see the ongoing fight which Hamilton so accurately identified by adding the Credit Clause to the US Consttution with a full explanation of how this deals with imperial finance. FDR used it as Lincoln did for reconstruction after a crash and a war resp. We will now use it after a devastating economic-financial war over 40 years now cresting, in the best American tradition.

            London has realized that this imperial push will destroy them too, so have called for Glasds-Steagall on July4 in the Financial Times and following.

          • bonbon

            Barclays, HSBC – British. Geithner of WallStreet Goldman-Sachs fame bailing them out along with Bernanke of the FED.

            WE know what the FED is up to, that Teddy Roosveldt illegaly created it, only because he got power when the President was assassinated. We know the derivative game instated by the British Inter-Alpha group months after Nixon killed the Bretton-Woods. We know the British HSBC drug laundering going on since 1864.

            Unfortunately we know the Austrian School is British, but apparently Ron Paul does not. He is being played. But that’s how it is done, the best are gamed.

          • Tony Brogan

            I read a lot of commentary on the net. Most of those that make sense to me have a bias to the so called austrian school of economics.
            you, in your solutions ignore the problems developed through the use and organization of the central banking system.
            all central banks have little responsible to the political overview to keep them in serice to the public.
            It is quite obvious that they are responsive to the needs of the banks rather than the people.
            They have become insolent enough that they demand that the tax payer bail them out when their bets fail but they keep the profits if they win.
            Free enterprise for the winner and socialism for the loser.
            They have insisted on being the repositories of national wealth and on having the monopoly to produce currency. none of your solutions address these issues.

            There is plenty of evidence that these deposits of the mations wealth have be sold off, leased out and double and triple accounted.

            The central banks are a fraud, exercise fraudulent activity and sponsor amoral and crooked behaviour that are corrupting and bankrupting the peoples.

            There are several quotes from politicians over the years that allowing the bankers to control the nations money is tantamount to giving up sovereignty.

            Review a few here https://www.google.ca/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SKPT_enCA449CA449&q=banking+quotations

            I will paste a couple

            When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” — Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France, 1815

            “Let me issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who writes the laws.” Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812), founder of the House of Rothschild.

            There are many more here http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/

            It is not a national issue to be blamed on The British or Empire. Those references are imflamatory and do not get to the nub of the problem, and in fact are a distraction

            The problem is the debt based system spawned by the central bankers and augmented with fractional reserve policies. The policies of margin trading have reached their zenith with the millions to one leverage of the derivative betting casino.

            The central banking system must be removed or all other efforts are doomed to failure.

            At least Ron Paul is on the record as willing to do this.
            his audit the Fed bill is comming before congress with enough sponsors to gain traction. Son Rand Paul is working to the same ends in the senate where there is less support to audit the fed at present.

            as a matter of interest. why are the Fed so resistant to an audit. They are supposed to be the nations custodian. Obviously they are afraid of what will not be found as it is suspected the gold is long gone or replaced with tungsten bars which are gold plated.
            The audit will reveal the greatest heist in history that will make LIBOR a side show. It will shake the financial system to the core.
            The Emperor will be revealed naked.

          • bonbon

            The nub of the problem is the inability of modern Americans or Europeans to even conceive of long term waves of history, the ongoing conflict since at least Troy. Populist truthiness such as Troy was about Helen, or there is no empire now, only corrupt this or that, is what Homer warned about. We are in the midst of the collapse of the British Empire, extended globally, with some concentration in London/Buckingham. This explains the outspoken FT call for Glass-Steagall on Jul4, something dismeissed by populists totally unaware of reality, as “interesting”. London itself is feeling the sheer terror of what the imperial faction wants to do – thermonuclear war using Syria, and knows this cannot be allowed to continue, even if they up to now ran the show. This means Obama is already used up – he was put in by that faction. Romney also.
            We have an epic war going on, and it is not over, no guarantees. This makes details and issues like currency utterly irrelevant. “Sound Money” in such a wave is totally irrelevant. The war takes place at the strategic level of nation states, public credit, government, who and what governs and how.

  37. Philip

    Today, Microsoft reports its first loss ever of 500M USD approx. Nokia is becoming irrelevant (it is relying on Microsoft to save it with Windows 8 mobile.

    Most HiTech (Internet related/ IT/ Telecoms) firms are getting hammered right now. 50-80% drops over last quarter is common. Never mind the share price. Just look at the numbers on orders/ revenue/ margin. Chinese operations are getting a major hit.

    I think the above reflects a world slowing down dramatically even over the last 90 days. The next 90-100 days are looking no better.

    I just do not see how our leaders can hack it for much longer.

    • bonbon

      Since the globalized service economy is indeed disconnected from any concept of production, this index does indeed show a part of the slowdown. The other side is food – being dependent on a a cartel, slowdown there means famine (not to mention burning food as bio-fuel).

      This is why it is a deadly threat to the human species now that the transatlantic collapse is not being dealt with, as even London realizes with Glass-Steagall.

  38. This is turning out to be a very valuable article. Like Steve Pavlina says people want value and if we provide information of value people will remember. A fair hours work for a fair hours pay is mutually beneficial

    It is great to see many posters have been inspired by ideas flying around the posts regarding what can be achieved by people looking to start some kind of small one or two man operation. It is nice to feel positive once again and it’s keeping my head up

    People want sound information on specific questions and this is where the skills of many can come to rescue. There are many Irish blogs but a huge forum like boards.ie is too general and has no specific focus

    I know one or two people who went of FAS courses for web development but such courses still leave huge gaps in their knowledge and experience. That is they they want to get to know people who have certain skills at the right price. Some people do small jobs for free in return for a reference on LinkedIn

    If you break it down and look at the skills employed it makes us realise that there is something for everyone:

    Article Writing
    Photography and image editing
    Graphic Design – logos, colours, layout etc
    User Interface Evaluation and Critique
    Social Media Strategy
    Marketing – locally, national, internationally

    If anyone here thinks ‘hell I could do something with my knowledge’ then it is all there waiting if you have the energy

    The most important part is the goal. If it is clear then all the other aspects become a dawdle when you have put yourself about and added like minded people to your personal network who can help out

    I have to say that the stories I’ve heard about treatment meted out to self employed trying to get back onto the safely net make me unsure of the risks. It is not much of a motivator is it?

    • Adam Byrne

      Hear, hear. Excellent stuff.

    • bonbon

      What about knowledge of the physical economy, nuclear energy production, manufacturing, marine research, arctic development, linking to the Eurasian Land Bridge?

      The list above is the Tiger-era recipe. On to a real productive economy, with massive projects on a global scale, which Ireland can link into.

      • My solution requires only a brain and a laptop.

        You can work anywhere and when you start to see some results and you can take your work anywhere in the world with you. No bank loans or physical assets required

        What you are describing is true but one has to be realistic

        • bonbon

          Practical Tigers brought th sky down on their heads. Realistic means that recipe is tired and tested.

          So an abrupt focus on reality is needed.

        • Adam Byrne

          So are you willing to go anywhere Pauldiv, if the opportunity arises? A while ago, you had written yourself off at 47 although someone else called you a young man…

    • Tony Brogan

      You have excelled

    • Philip

      You make an interesting point. We have to start looking for a way out and we cannot do it in one big step. Little steps and lots of them make a difference.

      I find myself all too often washed with thoughts of an armegeddon variety and I find my brain over tuned to seeing failure rather than seeing a way out. I am resolving to throw cold water of all negative statements because at the end of the day, this world of ours demands our positive efforts to make a difference. We have made huge strides over the last few decades and we have a few cockups to sort out that requires solid and hard zero bullshit solutions that recognises current commercial realities and real people problems – the past is over – change imposed feels uncontollable and we better get used to it. It is learning time.

      Your approach recognises a reality of our age – the tapestry of organising and working together has profoundly altered. I’ll give you an example of what starts off simple and turns into a mega trend – Angry Birds. Version 1 was very average but quirky. It has not become a phenomenon with a lot of brain power behind it.

      In the development of IPhone or Android Apps, what is so intersting is that the ramp time from conception to version 1 is measured in a few weeks and then it evolves. There is a whole ecosystem of apps now evolving in your palm which out perform any of the lumbering bloating lumps of systems (which brought Ulster Bank to it knees). Before you think this stuff is for toying around, there are micro satellites already up in orbit with no more control that an inserted smart phone which has all the builtin GPS/ Orientation Sensing/ Vision Sensing etc. to do real science. There are cradles you can soon buy for you phone and grow arms/ legs etc – robotics/ manufacturing etc. Takle any field you like. This is big stuff and it is paradigm shifting and it is coming fast.

      You know, much of the worlds infrastructure is actually very much tuned to helping the limited senses of the human being not be the cause of too many accidents. Motorways are a class example. But if every car is computer controlled (as it soon will be), you do not need interchanges, or fancy road signs or indeed much in the way of wide roads. IT / technology changes the game completely.

      So, Mr Pauldiv…keep at that idea. Small beginnings are the key. “Minimum Viable Product” is what it is called in Agile development. When yiou get enough of them together and they are all viable, what an amazing eco system starts to develop.

      Of course, it’s not all roses and chocies. This will smash big organisations and centralist planning methods. Humans will be humans. We might find microfinance methods will drive a lot of this,,,but I expect the micro derivatives will not be far behind.

      To the next wave lads!

      • Adam Byrne

        Great and valid intercourse Philip. Count me in.

      • bonbon

        First I do not believe the IT story of banks disruption, which blew just as the LIBOR and HSBC hit the headlines, and the investigation is expanding massively.
        Second a second dot.com will not work as the first did not, no matter what Facebook is valued at.
        Third micro financing, as practiced in India – have a look what happened to the guru of that movement.
        Bubbly thinking, a bankers delight, is over as they are paralyzed.
        It is time to abruptly dump all the Tiger-era mantra’s and look at how so many were so easily gamed.

        • Philip

          The Ulster Bank cockup was a technical, change management screwup. No magic about it at all. It is a well known issue. And it’ll likely happen again.

      • Excellent points

        Minimum Viable Product and small steps. Your words echo my sentiments. Agility is the of the game now. Ask Microsoft

    • joe hack

      Well Holy GOD! the man has found his mojo!
      sorry even this non religious person cant find the words to replace god ‘Holy Non-Religion’ just does not have the same ring.

      But sorry, skills I am interested in I have, the others I that i would like have I am not to interested in the effort but article writing is of interest i want to be able to have a better go at David and others you included.

      do you do on line courses? as i don’t fancy driving to Sligo

      Mr.Mojo Rising you better keep on rising…

  39. joe hack

    David might appear to be getting worried about the sales of his next book as he finally seems to be focusing on how to fix the economic mess…???

    • Hi Joe

      The next book is nearly there.



      • Pedro Nunez

        ‘Exodus II’?

      • joe hack

        Special discounts for regular bloggers and the unwaged or will it buy one get one free, or something to read on the emigration trail.

        • Adam Byrne

          For people who can’t afford books, and I’m sure there are many, especially in the current climate, it should be noted that this country is packed full of libraries and what’s more they are free to join (one of the only free things here).

          Even if they don’t have the book you want in your particular county, they will get it from any other county in the country where it is available within a matter of days.

          It’s a thundering disgrace that the libraries are not used more, especially by those with nothing else to do, but it’s not a surprise because a large part of the lumpen proletariat couldn’t be arsed reading anything more challenging than The Daily Star. There’s a free education to be had in our libraries, with an inevitable broadening of horizons and opportunities and it’s the loss of anyone who doesn’t avail of it.

          • joe hack

            Hi Adam, my comment above was a jibe at David and I think he got it, I also gave him an opportunity to plug his book without it sounding like he is pushing it on his own site I am sure he let us no when it in the shops.

            The libraries are one of this country greatest acids my local library is packed even though its collection of books is limited people go in there to read the daily paper one quite well known so called celeb can be seen their reading her paper for free most days.

            I live in an area where their are a few media heads dare i mention one especially here a tall blonde one gives me the eye when I pass her in the street or maybe she has a nervous twitch.

            one day i was walking to the shop and i passed Declan Kiberd second later Gay Mitchel focused on me as if I was going to attack him he was probly feeling low as he had just lost the plot on the TV during prsidentail campaign when I got to the shop and Ruairi Quinn TD was coming out he looked at me as if I stole his lolly-pop, he wares expensive grab “Labour”(but not bad bloke most of the time he tries) and this was all in the space about forty seconds i think i move to a better neighborhood although i don’t think Quinn lives here as he used to live in Sandymount over looking the Shellybanks so he may have moved or was just passing by.

            I use the online library you can download books directly to a E-Reader, not all library have it yet and the selection is small but it growing i had to join a library outside my local area to get the facility you can down load a book in as little ten seconds.

        • Didn’t know there was a new book due. I could afford it if I live on toast and beans for about 4 days. I hope the read makes my hunger worthwhile

          Next time you pass the big blonde maybe you could say here love you have something in your eye. Let me have a look

      • Adam Byrne

        Looking forward to it.

  40. bonbon

    People are stuck, but not because of various local wage arguments, rather because of a collision of dying empire with modern republics, a paralytic freezing up of banking living off vice, with investigations widening. There is a monstrous rush to war to avoid a political solution.

    NGO Finance Watch: Glass-Steagall Regulations Might Have Prevented the LIBOR Swindle

    PARIS, July 20 (Nouvelle Solidarité)–The Brussels based non-governmental organization (NGO) Finance Watch, an independent group of experts created by 200 elected officials to counter the international banking lobby, issued a statement that under Glass-Steagall regulations, the type of fraud seen in LIBORgate would have been virtually impossible.

    Finance Watch spokesman Greg Ford, in a piece posted on the NGO’s website called “LIBOR’s Lesson: We Have To Manage the Public Interest Role of Banks,” underlines that “The LIBOR and other scandals show that banks have failed to reconcile their public and private obligations. Finance Watch argues that banks that enjoy public support should accept public service obligations, such as lending targets, in return. The LIBOR scandal also shows that conflicts of interest and cultural problems are inherent to the universal bank model, strengthening the case for urgent structural reform.”

    To be more precise, “The story might have been different if a structural rule along Glass-Steagall lines had been in place to keep investment bank incentives away from commercial bank behavior. Since two-thirds of the banks on the LIBOR panel are large universal banks with large investment banking divisions, and since most of those banks have former investment bankers as CEOs and an investment banking culture, the conflict of interest was built in to the model. It is a fair bet that if none of the banks on the LIBOR panel had been running large swaps books, we would not have seen so much manipulation before the crisis.

    “In the U.K., home of the LIBOR scandal, the last two weeks of LIBOR news have been described as a turning point for bank regulation. Former Barclays CEO Bob Diamond’s leadership has been harshly contrasted with the Quaker principles of Barclays’ founders 300 years ago; senior industry figures and politicians have called for the ICB’s [Vickers Independent Commission on Banking] ringfencing proposals to be upgraded to full separation; and there has been some very public soul-searching about the culture of the U.K.’s banking sector and its roots in the universal banking model, including internal conflicts of interest between investment banks and their own clients.

    “But these issues are bigger than the U.K. industry. Members of the EU’s Liikanen Group, who are reviewing the structure of the European banking industry, must be watching very closely.”


  41. joe hack

    By Padraic Colum.

    “Old Woman of the Roads

    O, to have a little house!
    To own the hearth and stool and all!
    The heaped up sods against the fire,
    The pile of turf against the wall!

    To have a clock with weights and chains
    And pendulum swinging up and down!
    A dresser filled with shining delph,
    Speckled and white and blue and brown!

    I could be busy all the day
    Clearing and sweeping hearth and floor,
    And fixing on their shelf again
    My white and blue and speckled store!

    I could be quiet there at night
    Beside the fire and by myself,
    Sure of a bed and loth to leave
    The ticking clock and the shining delph!

    Och! but I’m weary of mist and dark,
    And roads where there’s never a house nor bush,
    And tired I am of bog and road,
    And the crying wind and the lonesome hush!

    And I am praying to God on high,
    And I am praying Him night and day,
    For a little house – a house of my own
    Out of the wind’s and the rain’s way.”

    • Brilliant poem. Thank you very much sir

      Piles of turf and clocks with chains I’ve known but the only memory now is of the crying wind whistling through the letterbox hole and coming to grief in our stark hall

      Cycles and friends come and go but we can all take comfort in the familiar sound of the crying wind wending in the night

    • joe hack

      a poem for the monsters in the baking system it should be posted next to their mission statements

      • Would that be the Cookie Monster?

      • bonbon

        It is the banking monster’s mission statement to get us, as the Trilaterals and Rockefeller said, to accept fascism with a face, or democratic fascism.

        They do not like that we are going to split their banks, and let them watch as we demonstrate what a nation state can do.

    • bonbon

      This poem was possibly published in Arthur Griffith’s United Irishman. The Saxon Shillin’ is another play.


    • bonbon

      Just found this amazing book by Colum


      A children’s edition of Odysseus, illustrated.

      This is part of the Irish Literary Revival.

      • Tony Brogan

        I am a third of the way through it. The story is a great refresher. thanks for the post.
        Some say the ancient Greeks and the Trogans were of the celtic race, as were the phonicians and even the first ten dynasties of the Egyptians.
        The name Galacia is left in three places I am aware of indicating the home in times past of the Gaelic speaking celts who invaded Ireland some 32-3500 years ago.
        The story may be family history in a manner of speaking.

      • bonbon

        There is more to it. The Hitite capital inland from Troy (Taruisa) was recently found and along the walls are various animal glyphs all with wheels. The German archaeos also found the original Troy wall exactly the size Homer described. Hitite culture got into a war with Ionian. Biblical archaeos are very unscientific, but the Bosphorous broke open flooding the Black Sea with salt water around 7000BC. A herder noticed months before salt springs from the cliffs and tried to warn the lakewater dwellers. He apparently built a boat…
        Anyway Antalya plains are where the Neolithic epoch took off just after that catastrophe. Check out this site, only partly worked on :
        Hitite culture is very ancient. Nefertiti, a Hitite, Tutankhamen’s mother, apparently gave pharaoh Ekhanaton the monotheist concept of Aton, the first ever.

  42. We had 165 comments by 1am and now we have 200.
    More people are staying home on Saturdays

  43. Tony Brogan


    Gregg hunter interview of Ron Hera
    There are no free markets
    All is rigged
    corruption reigns, no end in sight for the crime wave.
    The real economy in deflation
    financial economy in inflation

    Only haven is to own solid assets, no debt. Property, silver, gold.


  44. Pedro Nunez

    Can’t wait for David’s dénouement, ‘the way forward’,
    lead us to the ‘New jerusalem’, Exodus II,…..

  45. Deflated

    On Libor – Not sure it is best advice but could be an intersting avenue http://kenfrostendowment.blogspot.ie/2012/06/barclays-variable-rate-mortgages.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/mCKTU+(The+Endowment+Diary)

    This will also be the case for Euribr or Dibor

    Beascally the dublin inter bank model.

    If a contract is based on fraudulent content, whether known or not, is the contract deemed void as the party, in case of mortgage, borrower, is not given the true value of the financial implication of the product, therefor cannot be deemed to have entered into the contract under invalid/fraudulent information? The borrower could also argue that if the true form of the financial implication was revealed they would not have used it and as the contract now binds the borrower to fluctuations based on the previous fraudulent information could there be an arguement that the contract is void due to this?

    • bonbon

      Well now one of the LIBOR banks being investigated for LIBOR and drug laundering, HSBC, has 2 of its top staff now being used by Noonan to sort out finance.

      • Deflated

        There should be a full investigation into the 2 Irish banks involved in contributing to the Euribor calculation, AIB and BofI plus the Belgium bank KBC who has a shared interest in Ireland market.

        I think this all coulld elead to the crux of the real reason why we the people have had to bail out the Wanks!

  46. Moon WO~BBLE

    There is a Moon Wobble next month …I will defer until then ….and I am sure ….we will have something to learn …and certainly a lot will change between now and end of August.

  47. bonbon

    Greeks Charge Eurozone Leaders and IMF with Economic and Social Genocide, Lodge Complaint at The Hague

    July 21 (EIRNS)–A group of Greeks have gone to International Criminal Court to charge Eurozone leaders and the International Monetary Fund creditors with social and economic genocide. The complaint is being sponsored by a group of Greek personalities including publisher, and popular radio-television journalist George Trangas, former New Democracy MP Dimitrios Konstantaras, and journalists Panagiotis Tzenos and Antonios Prekas.

    The formal complaint names IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble, and European Commission President José Manuel Barroso.

    According to a report on the Greek blog, Hellas Frappe, their case charges that Greece has been used as a “guinea pig” by the dominant financial elite to launch brutal programs, for fiscally disciplining Europe, which has created in a humanitarian crisis that is now threatening Greece’s national existence.

    The complaint charges that Eurozone member states, in cooperation with the European Commission and the IMF, systematically engaged in the imposition of burdensome terms on Greek citizens, contravening the nation’s constitutional and international legitimacy. The accused accomplished this by applying a strategy of terror and blackmail, threatening to force Greece out of the European Union and the Eurozone. The Complainants charge that through coordinated statements from high-ranking Greek and European officials, together with the cooperation of large international media groups, the country and its citizens are being demonized, slandered, and even depicted as responsible for the global economic collapse, through methods that resemble those slandering the Jews during World War II.

    They present the case that Greece has been the victim of a plan of social and economical genocide that used methods that violate the UN Convention for the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Their complaint states: “The objectives of such a plan would be disintegration of the political and social institutions, of culture, language, national feelings, religion, and the economic existence of national groups, and the destruction of the personal security, liberty, health, dignity, and even the lives of the individuals belonging to such groups.”

  48. bonbon

    LIBOR linked to mortgages – investgation opened.

    Italian Prosecutors Open Investigation on Euribor

    July 21 (EIRNS)– Trani prosecutor Michele Ruggiero has opened an investigation on the four Italian banks on the Euribor panel: Unicredit, Intesa San Paolo, Monte dei Paschi di Siena, and Ubi Banca. Ruggiero has created a team of independent experts to find out whether someone at those banks had manipulated the Euribor rate, creating damages to Italian mortgagers of at least EU3 billions, according to figures provided by the consumers association Adusbef, in a legal brief which was the basis for Ruggiero’s investigation. The legal brief was filed already last October, and recent events have clearly prompted Ruggiero to act now.

    Ruggiero is also investigating rating agencies and has indicted Standard & Poor’s for fraud and assault against the Italian Republic.

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