June 13, 2012

Today with Pat Kenny

Posted in Articles · 32 comments ·

I know its not an article, but its covers some essential ground.

The Euro Crisis and where we go next. Podcast from Today with Pat Kenny.

Listen to the podcast here.

  1. joe hack


    Markel is suggesting that Germany would want further fiscal integration before it will agree to fix the Euro Zone.

    Do the Germans sincerely expect thousands of years of culture to change overnight before they give back a penny or are they been Machiavellian.
    In Markel’s world National governments would have to surrender sovereignty to a more integrated euro and possibly the so called United States of Europe (USE) or the core (Germany).

    Does Markel believe that this would put Germany in the driving seat and give Germany the power to order the French the Irish and others how to tax or spend or that the Italians should change their culture before they get a penny?

    There appears to be a contradiction in what Merkel is suggesting assuming she believes in democracy.
    If per-capita all the EZ countries have a vote then Germanys vote would be minimal in comparison to the collective of EZ states and Germany would have less power than in does at this right now and in theory could lose control of its own wealth, some say that they may be willing to do that? But would we all have to be German first?

    If most EZ states don’t to agree to Markel’s dictate of further integration-loss of sovereignty which by all accounts they don’t then Markel must believe that Germany can bring counties to the brink and force them into Markel’s vision of the EZ/EU then does that not make Germany a dictator now, if this is Germanys plan then this would be idiotically insane and terrifyingly dangerous.

    Markel’s German may find itself alone in or outside of euro with nowhere to sell its BMWs.
    The policies makers in Germany may know what is at stake and if so they should be informing the German people that their wealth is dependent on other countries wiliness to buy their goods and point to consequences of their actions if they follow Markel insanity path.

    The policies that the Germans are presently pursuing is frightening but if they are serious about further integration then they should start by first supporting the Euro and then lobbying for changes not visa-versa, otherwise they are not been truthful as the integration-loss of sovereignty changes that Markel says she wants may take tens of years.

    They are appearing to act like dictators, well they know-that cultures do not change overnight nor can a workable regime change be imposed on a people and its culture, is it not time that they were told this and time that the euro zone cut them off and in turn impose austerity on them.

    Germany is either in the Euro or it is not, its time Germany made up its mind and supported its currency or drops out of it.

    Is it time to call off engagement hand back ring before it becomes a marriage with kids, baggage and an ensuing acrimonious divorce?

    • Realist

      > Markel’s German may find itself alone in or outside of euro with nowhere to sell its BMWs.

      Why is that ?
      Are you saying that because Germans are making such a nice car, as bmw, we should stop buying it if they do not give us money back we spent on bmw’s ?

      If you do not want to buy bmw, it is your choice and only yours.
      My choice is only my choice and everybody should respect it.
      Nobody is to tell me to save, spend or invest or what to do with my own money.
      (Note – I do not own German car myself)

      Is the next thing going to a war ?

      • taylorcr

        If the Germans find themselves with their own currency you aren’t likely to buy their BMW’s at double the cost.

        Germany were given a massive competitive boost by joining the euro, their main export competitor Japan had an exchange rate of 160 yen to the euro 5yrs ago, today it is less than 100, a 60% difference.

        Thats why they are doing well, prior to the euro they were labelled the “sick man of europe” for decades and had virtually no growth and almost permanent deflation.

        • Realist

          The cost of any product is the cost that the buyer is going to pay.

          Why is all that mess with currencies ?
          What is growth for you ?

          Inflation is not growth, printing money is not growth.
          Today’s world is based on looking GDP as growth factor.
          To increase GDP you just need to print money and/or increase public spenditure by selling more bonds.
          Growth is when you can for your 10 hours of your labour buy more products than you could earlier, nothing to do with money or imaginary GDP.

          Currencies (fiat money) are crap coming from their central banks, inflating us to sponsor first on money while making majority of people poorer every day.
          German deutch mark was not printed like hell, like euro today. It was a stable and good currency.
          The whole Europe were disgraced with their currency due to mark being constant, almost like a gold, while their currency undervaluing.
          Other countries wanted to kill mark so they can print as much money as they can.
          They did it by creating euro while giving Germany the rigth to merge two parts.

        • bonbon

          The DM was as good as expected under a floating system put in place by Nixon in 1971. We need sovereign currencies, out of private bankers hands, but a Bretton Woods fixed, reviewed exchange system.
          Predictions of currency behavior after the system of floats and derivatives is finally gone, are not forecasts if the assume the same old game continues. They merely describe a fixed state.

      • bonbon

        BlairObama wants war badly. It is slavering for it. Blair’s Post-Westphalian R2P “Responsibility to Protect” doctrine to legalize permanent war is openly discussed. Even Sir Henry Kissinger (also a post-westphalian) says this is insane.

    • bonbon

      The banksters got rid of Wolff the last president because he would not sign off on the latest gang’s ideas in Berlin. Jury still out on the new president, Gauck.

      Previously president Köhler resigned suddenly over the first 145 billion bailout- small change now.

      All these removals were cheered in popular press.

      Calls to remove politicians, somehow lack any idea of what to do instead. Eire gave great example removing FF replacing them with FG, did’nt they?

      You want to lecture other countries now?

  2. joe hack

    Sorry, I posted that you David on this show today.

    Excuse my Dyslexia

    Culture, Time and generations my change this

    is this site is a public service?

  3. joe hack

    how sad is this;

    “Greeks stockpile food and withdraw cash”

  4. wills


    The problem of what is deflation?

    Plus, money is spent into economy everyday.

    Savings going up does not mean there is no spending.

  5. wills


    ..plus, growth we are told comes from credit which is a debt thus it is not income spending, which btw Keynes said.

  6. wills


    Agree there is political leadership. The problem is its in the pockets of insider crony syndicates pulling the strings.

  7. wills


    Sounds like you are pushing for house prices to stop falling.

    Am I incorrect?

    Are you?

  8. Deco

    I am concerned that if we start getting down the road of blaming Germany, we will fail to spot that this problem has three causes
    i) the level of incompetence coming from the EU level,
    ii) the level of incompetence coming from the Irish state,
    iii) the vested interests that control so much of Ireland via the media, the banks and public policy.

    Germany did not invent Anglo Banglo, the Permo 8 billion loan that “matured” after 72 hours, corrupt FF local authority councillors, gambler builders, the Irish Times Property porn supplement, or the ESRI.

    We are responsible ourselves for spending money in such a manner as to feed these pups, ourselves. They are cancers on Irish society that we fed.

    Now we must deal with the villians without out own own ranks. And that means the combeens.

    Churchill declared “the price of greatness is responsibility”. We have spent/invested recklessly and irresponsibly in a manner that has enriched the Johnny Ronans and Sean Fitzpatricks of this country.

    We currently have an entire civic culture that is an elabourate con that is based on lies.

    Time to pull it apart and rip it asunder and put somehting better in it’s place.

    • Deco

      Correction. “And that means the gombeens”.

      Starve the gombeens !!!!

    • bonbon

      Churchill coined the word USE, United States of Europe, taken up by Sir Oswald Mosley months later. Look at the result!

      Consider Cameron’s statement this week, urging “more Europe”, without Britain. Strange ommission –

      iv)Britain’s Golem, the Euro is out of control.

    • Realist

      Exactly Deco, well said.
      Everybody should look first their own house.
      It is standard human thinking that somebody else is guilty for everything.

      We should blame others for things they did bad and Ireland did not.
      I am yet to find what are those :)

  9. bonbon

    From Germany, a modern Marshall Plan for southern Europe! Germany knows what it means to be reduced to rubble, and an economy to rebuild, with public credit financing. This takes concentration, but our countries deserve it! Details of how to build up a collapsed physical economy, plans that are on the table right now.

    HERE IS LIFE AFTER THE EURO — An Economic Miracle For Southern Europe And the Mediterranean!

    by Helga Zepp-LaRouche

    June 1–All of us–every nation in Europe, along with its citizens–now face a doubly existential crisis: The euro system, and the entire trans-Atlantic financial system, are in the process of total disintegration, which can be put off only for a few more weeks, by means of hyperinflationary injections of liquidity. This is the result of the failed system of the British Empire, which also, on the basis of the so-called Blair Doctrine, now threatens to draw us into a thermonuclear confrontation with Russia and China.


    • bonbon

      Interesting Kenny mentions the Marshall Plan in the DMcW interview.
      But a new Marshall Plan is a jump above in scale.

    • bonbon

      DMcW rattles off some statements about German re-unification, and the 1992 currency crisis being caused by that. No mention of Soros hitting the Lire and STG to pave the way for the Euro (correct me if I misheard). No mention of the Euro, as both Mitterand and Thatcher said being a corset to limit Germany.

      And of course no mention of the utterly incompetent Treuhand privatization, total lack of economic reconstruction on the lines of 1948 for the Comecon.

      Seems to be the British line on things.

    • bonbon

      DMcW is right about the perception of the endless bailouts in Germany. Kenny just cannot swallow this.

    • bonbon

      DMcW refers to FDR on mortgages in 1933 onward. Interesting. But without mentioning the New Deal, Glass-Steagall, FDIC, TVA.

      Time is limited of course in such interviews.

    • bonbon

      The reference to London is revealing. DMcW is seriously underestimating the scale of the crisis with London at the center.

  10. joe hack

    What a excellent result for Germany so far Holland are falling apart

  11. bonbon

    ‘Farmers For No’ spokesman James Reynolds vindicated by EU Commissioner Dacian CioloÅŸ on CAP budget statement
    Posted on June 13, 2012
    The European Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development, Dacian CioloÅŸ, questioned about the possibility of cuts to the common agriculture policy subsidies if the Euro crisis worsens.

    ‘Farmers For No’ spokesman James Reynolds was derided by RTE presenter Pat Kenny on the Frontline programme during a debate on the Fiscal Compact Treaty for mentioning the possibility of CAP subsidies taking a hit if the referendum passed, and now Mr Reynolds has been vindicated by no less than the EU Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development, Dacian CioloÅŸ.

    Audio is from the Countrywide radio program aired on Saturday 9th June, 2012.

  12. joe hack

    Maybe if Holland had played on the periphery instead of playing Van-Percy trough the core they might have got an equaliser- Great match!

  13. bonbon

    Call for Struggle Against ‘Perfidious Lies’ of the Pro-Bailout Forces

    A strong attack on the “perfidious” lies being spread by the pro-bailout forces was issued by a leading Greek Professor of Constitutional Law, George Kassimatis, who is also a co-founding member, with composer Mikis Theodorakis, of the United Democratic People’s Resistance (ELADA).

    Writing in the movement’s website, The Spark, Kassimatis declares that the Greek electorate has been “subject to a relentless daily assault of systematic deception and misinformation,” a “real campaign of lies,” whose aim is to “bully, blackmail and cheat” them. It is a campaign of “intimidation and deception and insults against the ‘anti-memorandum’ parties.” The pro-bailouters are even brandishing the threat of communism taking over, which was last used by the military junta of 1967.

    They are generating fear through “creating fake risks…to hide the inhuman consequences of the ‘Memorandum,’ which included the political, economic and social de-Hellenization of Greece.” That means ceding Greece’s sovereignty and national wealth to pay the illegal debt, while “young scientists flee the country” and a “collapse of the productive forces of the nation” continues.

    He charges that the forces behind this campaign are the Troika, (the European Commission, the IMF, and the ECB), and the pro-Memorandum parties, including the Pasok and New Democracy, which approved the Memorandum in the first place. They have been fully supported by the Greek and international media.

    Kassimatis demonstrates that the bailout, the Memorandum, and their brutal conditions violate the Greek Constitution, as well as European and international law. He attacks the lies that Greece cannot default on, or demand a renegotiation of, its sovereign debt, pointing out that, under international law, Greece has that sovereign right, and it is a right that has been legally and successfully exercised by many sovereign states.

    Furthermore, the conditionalities of the Memorandum are themselves a violation of international law and therefore can be repudiated. And, the way the Memorandum and loan agreement were adopted violated the Greek Constitution.

    Attacking the cynical statements by leaders of the Eurozone and the EU that they want Greece to stay in the Eurozone, but that it must “honor” its “obligations,” he writes, “The truth is: There are no obligations on contracts that are illegal and inhumane.” Nor is there anything in the Eurozone treaties about how a member can be thrown out of the euro.

    He called on Greece to follow a “multidimensional” national and foreign policy in which the interests of Greece can be defended by working with other forces outside of Europe.

  14. Realist

    Hi David,

    As my post with the links is waiting on moderation I will post it without the links.

    It looks you are using many mythical terms to describe current economic problems.
    Did you ever try to get to the bottom of these terms ?

    1. Velocity (Circulation) of money

    The velocity of money doesn’t make any sense.
    Consider the following: baker John sold ten loaves of bread to tomato farmer George for e10. Now, John exchanges the e10 to buy 5kg of potatoes from Bob the potato farmer. How did John pay for potatoes? He paid with the bread he produced.

    Observe that John the baker had financed the purchase of potatoes, not with money, but with bread. He paid for potatoes with his bread, using money to facilitate the exchange. In other words, money fulfills here the role of the medium of exchange and not the means of payment.

    The number of times money changed hands has no relevance whatsoever on the baker’s capability to fund the purchase of potatoes. What matters here is that he possesses bread that can be exchanged by means of money for potatoes.

    How is it that the fact that the same e10 bill used in several transactions can add anything to the means of funding?
    By what means does the speed of money circulation add to the real pool of funding?
    Imagine that money and velocity would have indeed been means of funding or means of payments.
    If this was so, then poverty worldwide could have been erased a long time ago.

    2. Aggregated demand

    The very idea of a shortage of aggregate demand is absolutely meaningless.
    Pumping money into the economy for fear of a shortage of aggregate demand is simply put crazy.

    3. Liquidity trap

    Contrary to popular thinking, the threat posed to the major economies is not the liquidity trap, but the government and central bank stimulus policies aimed at countering it.

  15. Ach David. Ye are an awful man some days but god love ye.

  16. I refuse to listen. Eff off you might say and fair play

    You are better than Kenny and it galls me to see you clutching for attention in the mainstream media. It looks like your are waiting to be called in from the cold

    Kenny is an arch manipulator and I am surprised you even waste breath talking to these people

    Still it is a free country

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