January 23, 2012

Doing a deal with the Devil

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 205 comments ·

Last weekend, I went to see Roddy Doyle’s clever adaptation of Gogol’s The Government Inspector at the Abbey. Go to see it if you can – it is wonderful. Of the many highlights, one of the most memorable is Don Wycherley’s performance as the Mayor.

As I left the theatre, I was marvelling at Wycherley’s talent, because the last time I had seen him on the stage was at the Abbey in Conor McPherson’s hauntingly brilliant The Seafarer. Again, he was superb.

Central to McPherson’s Tony-nominated play is a pact with the devil which one of the characters made many years earlier. One Christmas night, the devil comes back for the man’s soul.

The idea of the pact with the devil is one of the oldest in Christian mythology. This is the basis for the temptations of Christ when Jesus was at his weakest fasting in the desert. All this stuff has deep Biblical resonance.

Over the years, there have been many variations on this theme from the Faust legend developed by Marlowe in the 16th century to Thomas Mann’s version in the 20th century. In all these versions, someone makes a pact with Satan in exchange for wealth, youth or power.

Of course, the price of the wager is that the devil takes your soul. He always collects. The power, wealth or fame can be snatched away by Old Nick at any time and we all know the conclusion. (Well, maybe not in McPherson’s terrific finale.)

Keep this devil’s pact idea in your head and now think of the pact that the European governments have made with the banks since this crisis started. In every European country, under the watchful eye of the same people who make up the troika, European governments have made a devil’s pact with the banks. (This metaphor is mentioned on dailyreckoning.com. Well worth a read for anyone interested in finance.)

The idea was that the governments would be strong enough to carry the banks. It has not worked out this way. And now the banks are destroying the governments from the inside out

The governments undertook to save the banks’ balance sheets. In return, the banks have taken their souls.

Politicians are seeing their careers destroyed because they feel trapped in this devil’s pact. I bet there is no politician around who wouldn’t be shot of these banks if they felt they could get away with it. But they are caught and the banks are waiting to take their souls,
so everything is contaminated.

The way out of this is for the governments to actually face up to the bullies at the ECB and cut the banks loose. This can and will eventually be done, but in the process many good people will be destroyed. At the moment, politicians are not cutting off the banks because of something stupid which we will call the ‘tyranny of credibility’.

The governments are being advised by bankers – now there’s a surprise – that they can’t reverse policy because they will lose credibility.

But the opposite is true. They lost credibility because they continue to pay for the banks. The reason Ireland is in the clutches of the troika is not because it didn’t pay the bondholders, but because it did.

And the more we pay, the less credible we are. So when we pay yet more to Anglo bondholders this week, it doesn’t make Ireland more credible; it makes us less credible because we are borrowing money to pay for dead capital, capital that is gone. What part of basic economics do
these troika people not understand?

So now we have – not just here, but all over Europe – the spectacle of bankrupt banks being propped up by cash injected by insolvent governments, which are in turn being propped up by insolvent banks which are buying the bonds of the insolvent governments.

This is the devil’s pact which is corroding the political soul of governments and making them more and more remote from the people and from their own political values.

For example, last Friday we had Michael Noonan, Minister for Finance, saying he might be able to get the bill for the promissory notes on Anglo down a bit. But he has no obligation to pay them at all. Tell the ECB to get lost. And do you know that they would do? Nothing.

The reason that nothing would happen is because paying the bondholders goes against the golden rule of insolvency. The rule is that old capital always loses and new capital always wins. That is what capitalism is all about. But because of the devil’s pact, the old owners of the banks and the new governments are caught in an embrace that can only destroy the governments.
In fact, it is already destroying them, both politically and financially.

Look at the chart to see how the governments are destroying themselves. This shows how countries have lost their AAA ratings in the past two years. What we see is that in 2010, 15 per cent of S&P-rated countries were held to be risk-free bets. There was no question of them defaulting or not meeting their obligations.

Now look at what has happened since the widespread devil’s pacts became ‘normal’ policy. The number of countries with AAA ratings has halved. Now only 8 per cent of all S&P countries worldwide have a flawless credit rating.

What does this mean for global flows of money? It means that there are fewer and fewer safe havens. So, rather than making the world a safe place by doing a deal with the banks, the governments have made the world a less safe place.

So what does this mean for the governments that have sold themselves to the banks? They have lost their financial soul and money is leaving them and heading to the few safe havens left. Rather than being rewarded for their insistence on saving the banks, they have been punished by the markets. So they are not becoming more credible, they are becoming less credible. What bit of this don’t they understand?

In the process of losing their credit ratings, they are losing their way. Noonan may be many things, but he is not a fool. And he has been around a long, long time. So what was he doing saying emigration is a “lifestyle choice” when he knows this country and our history as he

He was saying it because of the devil’s pact. Politicians have become possessed. Wily politicians, many of them decent people, have waltzed themselves up a political and financial cul-de-sac for the sake not of the banks, but of the former owners of former banks.

The only way out is to see the light. There is no bogeyman. The markets don’t care. They have no memory. They want to finance new opportunities, rather than the losers who gambled on the banks years ago. Face them down. That’s the way you deal with bullies.

It is time for elected politicians to save their souls.

  1. “If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed” – Terence McKenna

  2. cautious-optimist

    So what was the “financial bomb” that Varadkar was talking about yesterday? Apparently the Troika said it was ultimately our decision if we decided not to pay the unsecured bond holders this week but what would be the consequences if we decided not to pay?

    • Deco

      Leo Varadkar is talking about financial bombs, and Lucinda Creighton talks about hand grenades.

      Now, if SF used such terminology, Pravda would be making jokes. But no jokes about military stuff and the bluehirts please….

  3. Deco

    Ireland’s upcoming Faustian deal.

    Ireland will sell it’s soul, in the form of Coillte, in order to bailout out the Anglo Bondholders, and encourage the financial interests that control Brussels.

    We hand over something real, which has real value, for something imaginary, which has no value. And if you say that the EU is roten with corruption you are told that you are ignorant of european history, and the trenches, etc….

    No. If you call the entire thing corrupt, you are aware of both history, and also the present tense of Europe. And, you are being responsible with regard to it’s future.

    • I believe the Devil himself is on a retainer from investment funds interested in buying the soul of Ireland-Coillte.
      Bartholmew Ahern has not gone away, he has not yet finished his work as the Great Destroyer of Ireland.
      He is truly the Goat of Mendes.

  4. Deco

    Politicians have become possessed.

    You are right. The banks own the politicians.

    Just look at the decision making of the EU commission.

    • Realist

      The same can be said the other way around too.
      The governments have a power, police, army, law system, to do whatever they want with the banking system. Even ECB is hard to tell that is not government owned to be honest, if you look how members are voted.
      I hope the government make banking less fraudulent by law, like in 14th century when bankers who used deposit money were executed by law.
      But that to happen means governments will not have the way to borrow and pay for their big salaries and bonuses, apart from taxing people.

      For us, people, it will be more beneficial that both governments and banks bankrupt and we somehow start fresh so our children will be better off.
      Just pushing the outcome to face our children is the last choice I want to make.

      • bonbon

        That “somehow start fresh” is the question. I suppose this must spontaneously happen as if by magic?

        Interesting you mention the 14th century. Then the greatest banking collapse occurred when Bardi and Peruzzi banks folded because of the oldest documented case of derivatives. The entire European financial system collapsed. Barbara Tuchman has a book on that. Since the banks owned most arable land due to foreclosure, the crop failed. Just then the pest arrived on a ship in Genoa – 2 sailors from Sebastopol with symptoms unheard of, spread the plague to an already starving population with no functioning banking. The rest is history.

    • bonbon

      +1, possessed by a satanic financial system hell bent on surviving no matter what.

  5. Aidan Butler

    Thanks for keeping it real in a scary unreal world…

  6. cavanman

    “give me control of the production and the quantity of the people’s money and I care not who makes their laws Mayer Amschel Rothschild.
    The world is controlled by private central bankers who are politically non-accountable. Yet they control governments since they can at any time reduce the money supply and bring on recessions and depressions at will. Banks control governments, not the other way around and we can easily see who is master and who is slave by watching the way governments throughout Europe and America are enslaving their citizens in order to pay back huge swathes of money which should never have been lent in the first place.
    Capitalism is being turned on its head as banks who lent money recklessly are being paid back while the citizens are expected to make good their losses through extra taxes and austerity.
    Capitalism without failure is like religion without sin, it can’t operate. Isn’t it a pity that the interests of governments cannot therefore coincide with the interests of their citizens. Democracy is indeed an illusion.

    • Realist

      “Banks control governments, not the other way around”
      Who control the police, army, law system ?
      Who brought fractional reserve banking laws and central banking into the banking system ?
      The governments of course.

      • Realist

        Not to forget who is getting the term to lead the country and to oversee and control the whole society wellbeing, banks or governments ?
        Utopia of democracy.

    • Steaf35

      Change shall require a movement of national proportions; a new form of politic based upon economic independence to wrestle the lunatics and cretins from the mantle of control; There are enough like minded individuals present within the country but they dont have a vehicle to board..!
      Commence with a 10/15 or 20 point charter of achieveable targets..!

    • rebean

      Those Rothchields are really on the ball. Golman Sachs advised the Irish Govt to take over the debt of the banks. And the Rothchields and Goldman Sachs buy up all the bonds at low prices. Then they make an absolute fortune. I guess you cant blame them they are dealing with real gobshites . It must be the easiest cash they ever made. We should have let Anglo Irish collapse and supported the other banks. Fine Fail hadnt the bottle for it.

  7. Lyndon Jones

    This is basically the old “burn the bondholders” argument again , it has been rehashed by DMcW over and over . The troika are dead against any defaults ….its not going to happen , ever.
    DMcW has put forward this idea many times in many different ways , he is plainly deluded.
    There is 2.5 billion of bonds left in Anglo , next week there will be 1.25 billion left.
    We are going through a phase of paying old debt which is being replaced with new debt , once the old debts are paid off we will be left with the sovereign debt.
    After these banking debts are paid off will DMcW be calling for default of sovereign debt , I think his argument is running out of time and soon he will be left with nothing to argue about , he will be caught by the short and curlies and will have to face up to the fact of a mountain of sovereign debt will be our new problem.
    The other problem is the deficit , I think everybody except DMcW and Joe Higgins get austerity . Austerity will be a feature of our economy for years to come. The new EU fiscal compact will force our politicians to behave themselves and balance budgets .
    DMcW is too much of a populist to accept the truth , I dont think he can handle the truth.

    • CorkPlasticPaddy

      @Lyndon Jones.
      Lyndon Boy, do you work for a bank or something????

      What a load of ‘old cobblers!!!’ Of course the troika are dead against any defaults…because who is advising them only bankers!!! Anglo should be told in no uncertain terms where to go, and the troika and Merkozy should be told where to go, as well!!!!

      For your information DMcW has never mentioned defaulting on the sovereign debt!!! All he’s ever talked about was defaulting on the bank debt, nothing else!!!The banks should have been left ‘go to the wall’back in September 2008 and if they had I’d safely say that we wouldn’t be as much ‘in the mire’ as we are now!!!!
      As to what you had to say about austerity, well, that was another load of ‘old cobblers’, as well.If people have less money due tax increases and anything else then how is the domestic economy going to be stimulated and grow again?? Less money means less spending more which leads to jobs being lost and things getting even worse than they are now!!!
      Wake up and smell the roses!!!

      • Realist

        It is the synergy between governments and banking system. They are first on money and benefit the most.
        Both bankers and politicans want in short amount of time to enrich themselves through bonuses and salaries.

        Less money does not mean lost jobs.
        Typical example is if we all wake tomorrow with double more money in our pockets, do you think you will be twice wealthier ?
        Of course not as money is just means to exchange goods, real goods.

        • Realist

          Just to add that if the money supply is cut and we only have money as it is off now, advancing economies will be recognized by reduced GDP (consumption parameter) year after year as the products will be cheaper and cheaper and your money (salary) will buy more and more stuff due to the technological advancement.
          Only in biology more and bigger is better.
          In economy more money does not mean better, as if it is true it will mean we are better off by FED and ECB that printed trillions of money on the last few years!!!!!

    • StephenKenny

      I’ve always failed to understand why you believe that the tax payer should be held responsible for private company debt, but only when those private companies are banks.

      • paddythepig

        I can think of one reason. No other private company holds everyone’s money. The private v public distinction is not the deciding factor in this issue ; actually when push comes to shove, it’s of little relevance. Rather it is the very nature of the business that is relevant.

        The narrative about this issue should always keep this reality in mind.

        • StephenKenny

          A “push comes to shove” event is merely the usual situation when a company goes down – it applies in all similar situations.

          There will just be a takeover of the bank by another bank. Customers accounts will eventually be transferred, in tact, but in the mean time a different legal entity will sit atop the structure. ATMs will have cash, transactions will occur etc.

          This has occurred so often, there is no relevance of it being a bank.

          • paddythepig

            If the public shared your point of view, there would be no such thing as a bank run, or capital flight, as everyone would have full confidence that when the bank goes down, there would be little or no impact.

            In 2011, depositors have been burned in the takeover of Amagerbanken and Fjordbank Mors banks in Denmark ; furthermore articles such as this show that takeovers do not always occur.


            The failed institution being a bank is hugely relevant.

          • StephenKenny

            For people with over $250k in a single bank, this may be a problem. Even in those cases, as the article points out, they were reimbursed. If a bank goes down and ordinary depositors are hit, then it’s a political decision to do so. If a bank goes down and it’s depositors are not automatically taken on by another, then it is, essentially, a political decision.

            It is why a bank run is so absurd. But it is also a story that, understandably enough, bank PR departments are very keen to encourage. Retail banks are not even slightly difficult to set up and run – e.g. Egg Bank.

            The run to worry about is one on a currency.

  8. Extract from John Mauldin’s Weekly Letter :

    Ireland is not going to pay that bank debt. Get over it. Just let the ECB swallow it. Then Ireland will pay the rest of its government debt and can grow its way out of its problems. They have a positive trade balance. Besides, who doesn’t love the Irish?

  9. Eireannach

    I don’t think I’m alone in sensing, in the ‘waters’ of Ireland, a turning point approaching fast.

    The bankruptcy laws are to be changed by mid2012. DMcW stays away from what I’m about to say, for fear of diluting his important message RE: the bank guarantee.
    But I’m going to say it now, because it needs to be said, in the interest of truth.

    Large sections of the Irish people also sold their souls to the devil by buying insanely overpriced homes or “investment” properties. The first time buyers expected a “pact” wherein they would get free money called “home equity” with which to buy expensive furniture, handbags, go to expensive restaurants, foreign holidays, new cars.

    Why did they expect to become rich through property? Because that was “the pact”.

    People like DMcW, Morgan Kelly, etc. were warning about the consequences of the pact with the devil, but the overwhelming majority of the public IGNORED those voices WILLINGLY, because they were seduced by the devil’s voice of riches for nothing in the present. They ignored the other half of the bargain, that in the crash the devil would come for your secured assets like home and car, destroy your marriage, and leave you in penury.

    The majority of the Irish public IGNORED the biblical warnings about how they cannot serve God and Mammon. They chose Mammon!!

    The banks are the spawn of the devil. But I take particular exception to the sneeky little rats who try to blame the banks and hide their dirty demonic pact behind a Christian appeal to forgiveness and charity.

    “It’s not our fault” they bleat. But I was there – I saw them with the latest handbag, newest German luxury car, the swagger, the hubris.

    It was a pact entered into by a frightening number of the Irish people, and it was sealed in blood. The bankruptcy laws are changing and the devil is coming for his souls – you know who you are!!

    • Deco


      At the root of the madness was the pride nonsense. “We all celebrated”. In order to show how proud they were, a lot of people went overboard on superficiality, playing stupid insane games with each other, in what David once called an suburban arms race on cheap credit.

      It was absurd. The consequences are painful.

      But the idiots who loaned money to the idiots holding the credit cards really should have done their research into who was borrowing that money. It is called debtor assessment. It is a normal business practice. There is no need to bail out the fools who bought the Seanie Fitz story.

      • Eireannach


        I’m against bailing out banks. It’s the greatest scandal in the history of the state.

        I was just pointing out that this week’s plot-line – “the pact with the devil” – extends far and wide throughout the length and breath of the country.

        Mephistopheles, the Prince of Darkness’s debt collector, is watching and keeping account. It’s not just Seanie and Fingers he’s coming to get.

        It goes much, much deeper than that.

        The new banktuptcy laws, scheduled for mid2012, are the knock on the door.

        The hour of reckoning for the excesses of the Celtic Tiger is approaching.

      • @ Deco
        ‘But the idiots who loaned money to the idiots holding the credit cards really should have done their research into who was borrowing that money.’

        The Idiots that loaned the money professionally acted deceptively and unprofessionally and mis-informed the borrower thus the reason the borrower trusted the Devil and celebrated .The borrower was conned full stop.

        • Eireannach

          Well then John,

          Was the borrower also “conned” into buying a shiny new mercedes instead of a fuel-efficient, modest Toyota or Nissan?

          Do you think the borrowers will get out of their pack by blaming others?

          (banks, government, the devil hiding details in the contract, etc etc)

          The whole idea of the devil’s contracts is to read the detail before signing!!

          • bonbon

            Faust read the contract, that does not make the Devil any less Satanic.

            Better to smell the sulfurous fumes.

          • What subsequently happened had evolved from the poison chalice seeded by the Irish Bankers to the borrower and that deceptive culture became poisoned under undue influence by the banker.

            Had the banker not have been so greedy neither COULD the borrower have made it happen.

      • Hi Deco,

        The Suburban Arms Race…I’d forgotten that description. Thanks for the reminder.



    • redriversix


      Good post,I do still believe that “debt” is the 21st Century version of 18th Century Slavery.

      As you point out , A lot of people signed up to this eazy credit.I am not sure , but I think this Generation has less education about Money or the managing of same than any previous generation, probable because previous Generations never had access to eazy money..?

      “the greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was making the World Believe he didn’t exist”



      • Eireannach

        +1 Redriversix

        I think the younger generation basically permanently mitched mass and got drunk on the new freedom from moral controls, checks and balances.

        They threw the moral compass baby out with the bathwater of mass attendance.

        The special pleading, the woe-is-me victim soliciting of sympathy, the tut-tutting and the wolves in the bank but the pandering to the bleating of the mercedes driving masses now experiencing hardship….

        …all of that has its origins in the Catholic brainwashing of the Irish people, every Sunday, “religiously”, for the whole twentieth century.

        The twentieth century gave the world the communist revolution, the Nazi revolution, 55 million dead in WW2, the atom bomb and nuclear power, Yuri Gagarin and Neil Armstrong.

        To think of it! Meanwhile, here in Ireland, mass attendance was 95% until about 1990! Yet we like to think we are more modern than say the Russians or the Polish.

        This crisis will not kill the Irish. It will make them stronger. Because justing following the crowd, just “herding into mass” and being seen in mass (WTF, as late as 1990?) is just not going to get us back on our feet in C21.

        We will become new types of people, less sheepish, more independent minded.
        In short, we are painful, but finally, entering the full adulthood of post-medieval secular modernity. Thanks be to God (friendly touch of irony)! ;-)

      • bonbon

        Ferguson’s Invisible Hand of Adam Smith’s Wealth of Nations is that trick!

        Basic Economics 101 today in every Uni!

      • Realist

        Paper money without any tie to the gold started in full 40 years ago and we are now facing all consequences of it.
        If you add to it the fractional reserve banking that is now 200 years in operations you got your devil’s engine.
        We learn in schools that this current system is good and should not be questioned.
        I think the time is coming for it to change, I hope before my death :)

  10. For the words “a bomb will go off” to be used shows just how scared shitless the banks are that we should bail them out. This wording (indicating their negotiating position.) actually shows that they are in a very very weak position.

    Are we that bloody stupid to fall for it? Let the “bomb” go off.

    • 33square

      but a government would never let a “bomb” go off on its own people!

      • It is a low point in FG administration in party diplomacy and their public internal weakness displayed to the world.

        • These words in another time would have caused the minister to be arrestable under sect.31 of the terrrorism act …….how times have really changed.

          • bonbon

            As Tremonti of Italy and Mahathir of Malaysia say, the terrorists today are clean shaven, suited up experts in finance, clever with words, not bearded battle hardened.

          • Colin


            I supposed you’re delighted to hear the Muslim brotherhood will be taking control of Egypt following the election results there.

            And yes, Mohammad Atta and band of merry pilots were clean shaven, they even enjoyed their visits to strip clubs and getting drunk at bars, so they wouldn’t attract any attention to themselves from the CIA or FBI while they prepared for 9/11. Yes bonbon, deceit is permissable in Islam, as long as the person the muslim is deceiving is an infidel.

          • bonbon

            @Colin, I must qualify that, I know of one bearded battle hardened expert in finance, Tirofijo of the FARC R.I.P. who did a wonderful photo-op embracing trim Grasso of the NYSE in the jungle – the Grasso-abraso.

            Dope is holding finance together now, its last bandaid.

  11. Adam Byrne


  12. gizzy

    David I think that is the best article yet on summing up the situation. Clear and to the point.

    At lyndon people generally undersatnd austerity as a way to balance the books but not to repay unsecured investors.

  13. Dorothy Jones

    Fairytales…Fairytales indeed…..

    Once upon a time following a protracted series of unfortunate events,….baying wolves, aka hedge funds, decided they wanted every drop of blood from their once winsome victim, Greece. Said victim, mind you, not blameless for the situation she found herself in: going into the woods alone with a food basket, sporting a red cloak not exactly suitable as camouflage, leaving the cottage without paying taxes, and misappropriating money borrowed from abroad within the nation’s public service…..

    Anyway….these particular wolves have been developing quite a demanding little crack cocaine habit over the last while. They have no intention of reducing this habit in tandem with the proposed imposition of 3-4.5% on new coupons in lieu of their bonds; a cut of ca. 68%.

    Why on earth would the likes of: Marathon, Vega, Greylock and Saba let Greece ‘wreck their buzz’ by agreeing to allow Greeks insert a Collective Action Clause into legislation? Effectively forcing them to agree to new terms meaning they would VOLUNTARILY take the cut? All the while exempting the ECB from same????? Akin to setting a fox loose in front of wolves and expecting to them take the drag trail through the woods instead….no way that’s going to happen. Wolves will be wolves; triggering a CDS may be the most likely way to get their pound of flesh.

    Charles Dallara of IIF and Jean Lemierre of BNP Paribas represent steering group for bondholdings of ca. €155bn; uncavassed private bondholders account for ca. €50bn, with the remainder of the €260bn with the ECB and eurozone national bank holdings. MANY OF THE PLAYERS WEREN’T EVEN PARTY TO THE DISCUSSIONS. Bets on Greek debt have made losses. Certain hedge fund managers [even ‘badder’ wolves!] don’t see Greece debt as ‘cheap enough’ yet.

    So…….enter stage left the [bonkers] idea of taking a case in the European Court of Human Rights arguing that Greek proposals violate human/property rights. You couldn’t make this stuff up; is this move a ruse?

    Either way, once winsome Ms Red Riding Hood seems pretty certain to end up dead in the water soon [20 Mar 2012 latest?]….won’t be a pretty ‘Ophelia’-like scene either….

    • Dorothy Jones

      Oh…and now this evening S&P have ‘outlook negative’ on BNP Paribas…. How much are these people paid? Not exactly rocket science is it? Or…is this farmer’s daughter from north county Dublin wrong in thinking it is quite easy to figure out???

  14. CitizenWhy

    “The idea was that the governments would be strong enough to carry the banks. It has not worked out this way. And now the banks are destroying the governments from the inside out.” There you have it.

    David, do you really think politicians have any soul left to sell?

    And remember, the politicians, and some others, will do fine no matter who wrecked their countries become. The devil will not take away their wealth. They have no incentive to break the devil’s pact.

    • bonbon

      Not true. They well remember what the Pecora Commission did in 1932. And their signatures on every piece of austerity legislation leading to deaths of chronically ill, old – the weakest, is damning evidence piling up.

    • Emperorsgotnoclothes

      “And remember, the politicians, and some others, will do fine no matter who wrecked their countries become. The devil will not take away their wealth. They have no incentive to break the devil’s pact.”

      Well done on pointing out this very pertinent point CitizenWhy. It seems to be consistently lost in all the discussions and debate – the people steering our country/economy (FG+Labour) don’t have a strong enough incentive to pursue the course of action outlined in the above article. Defaulting on bank/bondholder debt carries with it far too much uncertainty in their minds. Why upset the apple-cart and run the risk of derailing their gravy train! This in my view is the logic swirling around in their minds, at least subconsciously and possibly consciously. Any protests to the contrary by them can be readily disregarded in my opinion. They are not acting in the interests of the ordinary citizens but in their own (and of those of the wealthy/investor classes) interests.

      • Nono

        Spot on Emperorsgotnoclothes! The government and the top ranking civil servants (who really run this country) have everything to lose by stopping the status quo. Hence, they will do whatever it takes to keep going just that little bit longer…

  15. redriversix

    Thank you for a great article,David

    Couple of points…..

    Our credibility was and is in jeopardy for paying this Bank debt,it should be cancelled immediately,we are unable to pay anyway so it is a mute point.We , as A Nation are Bankrupt.

    When that day comes any amount of Countries or investors would like to do business in Ireland which would be sustainable for them and us.
    When Ireland walks away from austerity driven,debt laden “deals” that benefit nobody but corrupt and self serving financial Corporations, who’s sole aim is to destroy a Countries financial
    Independence and take control of their resources,both Natural and State…If we learn to stand up for ourselves…..We CAN attract long term profitable investment , both for the investors and for the People of this Nation.!

    Walk away now…and ,as you point out,the IMF,ECB can do nothing..NOTHING

    Varadkar and his ticking time-bomb can take a hike,he is still peddling FEAR,why ? I do not know,it makes no sense,he and several of his colleagues have become a joke and anyone with a modicum of business interest know’s this.

    You say Minister Noonan is no fool and that perhaps he is a wily politician……?

    With respect to the Minister,I would have to disagree because he has continued down a path of destruction for this Country and continues to claim it is the only way,yet he is supposed to be in a position were he has all the information at hand.Independent advisers and financial commentators all agree across Europe that Austerity could not and would not work as you pointed out with your analysis of AAA countries over the last 4 years.Klaus from the troika pointed out the other day at press conference “how well informed the Irish people are regarding the economic state of our Country”so….if his taxi driver knows all this,surely Minister Noonan gets the same information and continues to make the wrong decisions………perhaps the Minister has been compromised by fear..?………..if that is the case,which would be no surprise as FEAR is what the IMF has had a lot of practice in selling,then the Minister could resign and find someone to replace him who has a fresher grasp of this fear peddling monster,and say,……NO MORE.

    Lagarde claims today that the IMF “rescue fund” may need to be “beefed up” by a trillion dollars to stop viable Countries like Italy and Spain from defaulting !!!!!…………Quite incredible you could not make this nonsense up.

    p.s Lyndon Jones,,”your still 2 bottles short of a six pack,go and lie down before you hurt yourself”!!!!!!!!!

  16. Deco

    This is slightly off topic – though it relevant to that export led boom that is expected to get growth figures up, and get us out of this mess….


    Our main export market, and primary trading partner in terms of employment. And it has been going on a debt binge since Blair, Brown and the other New Labour liars took power in 1998. This means that there will be a second austerity, mostly in the lower income, but employed in the private sector, social groupings in Ireland.

    Unfortunately, both the state and the private sector are busy overcharging for their goods and services, and it is not good news for our competitiveness. Our most energetic segment of the workforce is disappearing in droves.

    We are NOT going to trade ourselves out of this mess.

    As a side note, you will see that our other significant trading partners are also in a highly leveraged spot of difficulty.

    The future is looking a whole lot tougher.

    • bonbon

      I saw that – AEP has often sworn Britain is not his brief, now this. I wonder what’s up.

      • StephenKenny

        There is a very strong likelihood that in spite of the massive PR campaign in the UK media against European countries, there will be a very considerable economic ‘event’ in the UK this year.
        When sterling comes under pressure, as it certainly will, it will put upward pressure on UK interest rates, which will result in a fall in house prices. If house prices in the UK really fell – say 20% – the resulting chain reaction of financial events would look very much like an economic implosion.
        Given their history, the result would probably be a strongly left wing government. How could anyone argue against strong financial regulations, and nationalising the banks, now?
        You can be quite sure that there is something that smells rather like panic in London at the moment. The Daily Telegraph is, after all, just the other side of the coin from the Guardian.
        I’ve paid scant attention to the UK media over the past 10-15 years, but have read the serious newspapers regularly for the past few weeks. I have been left literally speechless by the ludicrous, absurd, ranting, nonsense that is passed off as news and serious comment.
        I cannot remember, other than the delightful Soviet Weekly that my students union spread around so liberally, any media with grown-up pretentions, that has put out such completely biased, misleading, nonsense.

        • Eireannach

          Very well said Stephen,

          I’ve been chastising and occasionally admittedly aggressively criticizing some of the posters on this blog for the last year about their Britsh press-driven anti-European brain-washing and raving isolationism.

          French and German people totally understand that the European banking system is out of control and needs to be taxed, regulated, nationalised – but it just cannot go on as it is for much longer.

          Meanwhile, people rant and rave about Merkozy and tacitly assume that the French and the Germans are out to get Ireland.

          This has nothing to do with the people of Europe, but with the bankers and their puppets in government.

          In this regard, the Tories of Westminster are the most evil politicians in Europe, shamelessly attempting to stir up anti-continental populism to mask their domestic neo-feudalist agenda, which is actually the agenda of their paymasters, the bankers of the City of London.

      • bonbon

        I agree, the City is threatened. But I disagree on how far Britain is prepared to go to maintain the grip in the world. I have posted here the extreme war danger, now and over Christmas. Britain is prepared to go after Russia, China, both of whom understand perfectly and have unmistakably spoken at the UN about this. Iran/Syria are just pretexts. This means thermonuclear war is the agenda. I strongly suspect Berlin and Paris smell this and are in total disarray.
        Obama is the only hope for Britain now. He is prepared to go after Russia, but a whole spectrum of officers have spoken out, slowing the drive. They as usual refuse to see the drive comes from London so cannot stop it.

        • StephenKenny

          Eighteen months months ago I would have passed this off as tin hat fantasy. After watching the Iraq rerun of plain deceit that will enable the US & UK politicians to attack Iran, I no longer know what to think. The core of the status quo that I have supported all my life, as a route to the broad, slow, improvement of the human condition, looks now, like it has gone, and I seem to find myself, without moving, on the other side of the barricades.

          • Eireannach

            For you to use the derogatory expression “tin hat” is already exhibit A that you conformed with Anglo-Saxon jingoistic orthodoxy.

            Mercifully for yourself, you’ve seen the light. The only place it’s leading is back to C19 class distinctions and Dikensianism. The stuff Tories types on “Have I Got News For You” or “Top Gear” snigger about.

            Scotland will leave the UK over this residual imperialist mentality. European solidarity will eventually defeat it, the ECB, the City and their sock-puppets in government.

            You have moved over to the side that will win, eventually. Good for you!

        • redriversix


          I have to ask for clarification on your repeated posts about England being the driving force to War…?

          At the moment I am aware of…

          Civil War in Iraq;

          Proxy war being fought against Iran from hideouts in Iraqi mountains by Iranian “dissidents” funded by the U.S.A

          Civil War in Libya;

          N.A.T.O troops have taken control of all oil platforms due to unrest and 12,000 Marines on stand-by in Malta in case of Emergency.

          [almost] Civil War in Nigeria Yemen,

          Jordan,Bahrain fighting a quiet insurrection.

          Russia and Iran signed a deal on 13/1/12 to trade between themselves in their own currencies instead of U.S Dollar,which could allow Russia to trade Iran’s oil on a sub-contractor basis thereby circumventing E.U embargo on Iran coming in to force in July 2012

          Afghanistan ; internal security falling apart and N.A.T.O mission may become untenable as Taliban grow.Remember,the Taliban are at home,N.A.T.O troops always want to go home, naturally.

          Then you have the Middle-east, Israel,Gaza,Lebanon,Palestine[or lack of]

          I do see the rise of the “East” and the collapse of the “West” and , history teaches me to expect a large War of some description,but I don’t know if the rise of the Eastern Culture is cyclical or will come from the result of upcoming conflict..?

          And,I admit I do not see the London connection,please advise..


        • bonbon

          Britain has no capability to fight a war, except by using Obama. Cameron signed agreements in Saudi and taped an interview with Al Arabiya recently.
          Cameron labelled Iran “a clear threat,” demanded an international embargo against its oil, and promised that “the whole world” would join in crushing Iran, should it attempt to close the Straits of Hormuz in response to any embargo. Cameron bragged that “Britain has been leading the way … in the European Union arguing for sanctions,” and sounding ever so much like Tony Blair, he threatened that “it is in the interests of the whole world that those Straits [of Hormuz] are open and, if there was any threat to close them, I am sure the whole world would come together and make sure they stayed open.”

          The invisible hand at work, in other words a pact with the devil. WWIII would be thermonuclear likely exterminating all. That is Satanic enough for me.

          • redriversix

            Thanks for that BonBon.

            I take your points but as open-minded as I am I cannot see them using Nuclear weapons on a wide scale basis because of the M.A.D doctrine,perhaps this view is out-dated but I see no benefit to the hostile Nations to use these Planet-killing weapons.

            Is Israel “concerned”enough to use these mindless weapons ?

          • bonbon

            The target is not Iran, but Russia and China. Russia has over the last 3 weeks repeatedly spoken out about this. Obama is crazy enough to go after a thermonuclear power, absolute insanity. The Ha’aretz has openly stated Israel will not exist if this goes ahead. There is a huge fight in Tel Aviv over this. Bibi is just as crazy as Obama.
            This is the agenda, now, they cannot delay as the financial system is finished.
            This is where are at.

          • bonbon

            Right. The only objective then can be massive depopulation. Genocide on a scale never before seen.
            Some have woken up and I posted one US officer’s estimate of 200 million deaths. I think he has not fully understood who would control the theater.

            Empires have always done this – look at Ireland in 1846.

            I know most just cannot swallow this insanity.

            But look at various public statements, never mind Al Gore stuff. The intention is again population reduction.

    • Peter Atkinson

      Deco, if you look closely at our “EXPORT” market it may surprise you to learn that the large majority of the cargo leaving our shores at the moment is made up of waste and deconstructed plant and machinery.Hardly wealth creating products and the biggest receivers of these products are China,Africa and Australia.You are probably aware of this this already but just in case, don’t let those spinmeisters try and tell you that we are booming by way of manufacturing.

      In relation to your comments on all that is militaria they were been speaking about “silver bullets” back in the dying days of the Fianna Fail government so I reckon we are only one step away from the “nuke ‘em Mr President” if these stupid sanctions against Iran go into force.

      I was really impressed with the support Happy Gilmour gave to the whole concept of sanctions. I think the colour red has finally been laid to rest in this country along with truth and justice.RIP.

  17. bonbon

    Wonderfully put, DMcW.

    Pacts with the Devil are something we Irish now all about – how many place-names involve that. Possession is the best way to describe the behavior. This not some silly superstition as I hopefully show.

    I’ll bet many here know the “Hell Fire clubs” of the 1800′s and thought that was a fairy tale to scare the kids?

    The founder of that Satanic movement was Bernard Mandeville, the idol of the LSE London School of Economics, and Nobel economist Hayek and many more of the Mont Pelerin Society today as testified by lectures and obituary.

    The Mandeville ideology of pure irrationality is satanic evil. It has gripped not just politicians, economists, and only poets or authors try to put a name on it. The irrationality of the people in the street is but a pale reflection of what has gripped the elites. A pact with the Devil is a pact against creative human reason.

    I have not seen the play mentioned, but Melville’s Moby Dick is a tale of satanic obsession (with Heston as Captain). The Mithra cult of Rome institutionalized this but Mandevile made it economic policy. The poem “Fable of the Bees, Private Vice, Public Virtue” is a kind of brain-washing, better called possession, recipe. Such techniques work best when the victim is terrified, and induced synthetic beliefs are grasped for. The danger in a collapse that entire masses become “possessed”. They then forget the episode and apply the policy even to themselves like Flagellants!

    Captain Ahab’s manic pursuit,, Faust, are trying to tell us something, again.

    • Lord Jimbo


      Melville’s story is both apposite and insightful, spot on, and well put. Even with Captain Ahab dead and fastened to the whale, his body seemed to beckon to those left alive to follow-on, even in death the obsession which cost him his life seemed to continue.

      Melville’s story is also a warning against hubris in the face of nature’s powerful forces, which are beyond man but which man in his madness thinks he can control, bend to his will.

      If you are ever in Youghal, the pub ‘The Moby Dick’ has some terrific photos of the shooting of the film there in 1954, nice pint of stout as well.

      As with anything, be careful who beckons on, there is almost always a hidden agenda, whether it be back into the property game or anything else.

      • bonbon

        I like the scene when Ahab crosses the harpoons and Elmo’s fire glows with reflection in the crew’s eyes. That marks the turning point for all. Other versions do not have this absolute evil portrayed so well.

        That glow in the eye of a true believer is dangerous. Human creative reason has departed.

      • bonbon

        Very good! It just never clicked that it was made in Yaughal! I must have passed the pub once.

        The forces of nature aspect – well the whales had absolutely no chance until we regulated the slaughter. Sure earthquakes, tornadoes, Arctic Blasts are beyond our control, but we are very near fusion star power and earthquake precursor research has made major advances. It turns out we had 5 days warning of Japan’s disaster but no Gov’t agency emergency phone number to call!

  18. John LK

    So, if the establishment devils pact has locked the bankers into the government systems – its not going to end there is it. The banks, after destroying the people’s facade of government are going to want to collect at the ground level.

    My septic tank is now taxed which means I pay to poo.

    Pay per Poo does not look good.

    It’s fight or flight time in old Ireland.

  19. wills

    Apparently, according to Count Vardkara, a bomb will explode in Dublin if the govt instructs private investors who hold Anglo bonds which are insured against loss, to feck off.


      Verruca has not a shred of credibilty. I watched this man on V Browne suggest that poorer people do not have worse health outcomes but that rich people became impoverished through ill-health. A few minutes later he claimed flat taxes were not regressive. His ignorance on economic matters is understandable, if unacceptable, on health issues, it’s a sacking offence. Both myself and members of the troika have had conversations with more intelligent taxi drivers. (No offence intended to taxi drivers).

  20. bonbon

    Will FG/LP ask us to vote on signing the Pact with the Devil – the Fiscal Compact – into law on Jan 30? Financial occultism as part of Gov’t policy?

    A new book by former Italian Economy Minister Giulio Tremonti compares ECB to the IMF in an “regime of occultism” i.e. exerting the same power on sovereignty without admitting it. Instead of military coups, governments and parliaments are put into “receivership” with the pretext of the systemic stability of the euro, through “technocrats who are apostles of utopias, still convinced about the monetarist dogma.”

    The Financial Stability Board is a Trojan Horse for finance, Tremonti says.

    The Fiscal Compact to be approved next January 30 is a real act of war, Tremonti warns.

    {Emergency Exit} ({Uscita di Sicurezza}), exposes the “white fascist” coup of technocratic governments as “the last stage of finance” and calls for a new pact among states which includes a return to Glass-Steagall.

    Tremonti draws four options for the future: a) catastrophic breakup of the euro; b) an ordered breakup of the Eurozone in two parts; c) constitutional reorganization of the EU with common budget and central bank; d) a “new alliance” among peoples and states. The last chapter of the book is dedicated to the fourth option, which Tremonti prefers.

    • piombo

      Hi Bonbon,
      I met Tremonti in 2004 while involved in the Italian part of a Chapter 11 Plan of Reorganisation of a US-based Company. I rate him very highly. He is not liked in Italian political circles as he kept the purse strings relatively tight in the last four years. Italy owes it’s primary surplus to him.
      He derives a large part of his modus pensandi on the Financial system from the teachings of Benedict XVI as outlined in the encyclical “Deus Charitus Est”. All in all, a superb politico and technician all rolled into one. I am glad at least one person in Ireland knows who he is.

      • bonbon

        Tremonti was in constant trouble with Berlusconi, but the real problem was Draghi and the Britannia Boys. He was ousted and Berlusconi was dumped.
        He has directly challenged the EU diktat. I cannot wait to read the full book.

    • Adam Byrne

      What form would this ‘new alliance’ take?

  21. On Varadkars bomb?
    I’d easily choose financial bomb over this apparently ever increasing and convoluted minefield! It might actually positively change the dynamic!

    2016 approaches and after 100 years we merely became a less important outpost in another almighty empire! What a shame!

    Remember the old joke about the difference between Iceland and Ireland just being one letter and a couple of months?
    Oh that it had been true!
    Apparently our Northern friends are doing okay for themselves!

  22. Colin

    Magnificent article David, getting to the heart of the matter here. Here in Ireland, the vested interests and the unions are the evil ones. Bunch of selfish b**tards! Tear up Croke Park Agreement now, we’ve no more gravy left for your cushy numbers boys and girls. Tell the banks go hang! Simples!

    • redriversix

      Hi Colin.

      regarding your earlier post on 9/11 do you believe Atta and his merry men were behind the attacks or was it a false flag operation.?

      E.U imposes sanctions on Iranian oil Exports this evening.

      The only Countries being belligerent are the U.S and its crony Allies seeking conflict with and towards Iran.

      Strait of Hormuz to blocked within 8 weeks.!

      • Colin

        Yes, I believe Atta and co boarded the airplanes and crashed them deliberately where they ended up.

        I suppose you redriversix believe Mossad set up 9/11 eh? And you believe all the Jews working in the twin towers rang in sick on 9/11 eh? And Bin Laden took credit for work he did not organise eh? And the 20th Bomber, Zacarias Moussaoui, admitted guilt in his role just for the laugh? And the towers were detonated by remote control shortly after planes laden down with fuel crashed into them? I suppose you believe the shoe bomber Richard Reid was another Mossad success story, and the underpants bomber was another ‘misunderstander of the religion of peace’? What about Madrid bombing, the work of ETA I hear you think? Or London bombings, maybe the Continuity IRA felt like having one more go and recruited muslims for their cause? Or the attacks on the Moscow theatre, maybe Russian Nazis were behind that one?

        If I was Iran, I’d stop playing poker with the big boys, because Iran can’t win. Why can’t they just stop sponsoring terrorism abroad, start treating their own people with basic human rights (gays and adulterers have rights too, as well as Iranian actresses who appear nude), and keep selling oil and gas to the world and use the money for the benefit of their own people, instead of spending it on nuclear weapons research? Can you answer me that?

        • redriversix

          Evening Colin

          “Thanks for the reaction”….I have no opinion on the London bombings or Madrid or Richard Reid,well actually I think Reid’s”attempt was on a Christmas day so if you recall all the “terror alerts”they always happen around Elections or holidays or some other time that keeps people on their toes.

          Mossad did warn the U.S about possible terrorism plot along with German intelligence leading up to 9/11 to name but a few but I don’t think they were involved.

          I have spent the last ten years studying 9/11 and your right……….I don’t believe the conclusions the 9/11 Commission report came too.It has more holes than a Swiss cheese and even some members of the Commission have since “come out” saying they were hampered at every turn trying to get information from the U.S Government.

          I would be delighted to share my information with you sometime as their is too much to go in to here.

          I spent a lot of time in America and growing up was always a great supporter of all things American,but as I grew older I learned a lot about American military actions and her foreign policy and grew saddened by what direction this great country was taking.

          Iran is certainly no people’s paradise and unfortunately America has become quite extreme in its Actions over the last 60 years.

          If you look at what the Bush administration achieved from the terrible events of 9/11,it is quite staggering how they have benefited,Homeland Security,N.D.A.A,boots on the ground in Iraq through false pretenses,boots on the ground in Afghanistan to oust the Taliban,who according to C.I.A reports were going to hand over Bin laden and comply with American demands.

          A massive increase in domestic and oversea’s Security and Military spending,curtailing of Human rights,the list goes on and on,you see Colin,I don.t know who did 9/11 but we can see who benefited

          A War on terror is a wonderful thing because , for the powers that be and those who benefit,it never has to end,the threat can be everywhere and nowhere.The World is a far more dangerous place today, then it was on 9/11.

          America redefined torture so it could circumvent the Geneva Convention.

          The U.S overthrew the democratically elected government of Chile in 1953 and installed Pinochet as its “leader”

          It overthrew the Democratic Government of Iran in the Fifties and installed the Shah who controlled it until the revolution in 1979 and you know were Iran has gone since then.

          America financed the French Colonial War in Indochina in the fifties.

          In the early sixties it was behind the assassination of the leader of the South Vietnamese Government and installed their own man and , along with the “Gulf of Tonkin” resolution escalated the Vietnam War which led to the deaths of 3 million Vietnamese and 58,000 dead American kids and huge civil and social unrest and upheaval in the States. LBJ said in a speech in 63 that “he would not send American boys to fight a War that Asian boys should be fighting themselves”

          Reagan and Rumsfeld financed the Iraqi War against Iran in the Eighties.

          Reagan sold weapons to Iran through Col Oliver North in the Iran-Contra Scandal,he did this to raise funds for a “silent War” in Nicaragua when congress turned down his request for money,funding the Sandinista’s[I think] from the sale of Weapons to Iran against the Government.

          Iran’s people do deserve better,but that is up to Iranians,the West has a very poor track record in stepping in to “help people”…

          Can you tell me how many U.S Soldiers died in Rwanda,when a million people were butchered in 6 months.? Zero….why…because Rwanda’s main natural resource is Asthma ! so nobody cared

          Iran does not need to win a War against the “big boys”it just needs to destabilize the region and draw the West in were the conflict will get so far until China and Russia step in.The West may Gamble that until that happens the will have gained a foothold in Iran and set up a DMZ or a Buffer zone.The West’s problem today is that many of the “Fighters”against the present Iraqi regime are coming over the border from Iran.

          So , Colin……I hope that gives you some idea of my learning’s…….I do not have all the answer’s but I sure ask a lot of question’s..



          • CitizenWhy

            The US has indeed been operating a police state abroad and now wants to bring it home in the form of a number of new laws, including one referred to as NDAA.

            But Chile is a more complex situation than saying that the US overthrew Allende. Allende had only a third of the seats in Parliament. He got the support of the Christian Democrats seats (one third) by signing an agreement to work within the Constitution. The other third of the seats were held by the right/far right. The Chilean constitution had been working for 150 years at that time. Admittedly it was a Constitution of a liberal democracy, which really comes down to the rule of law, with the power of law vested in the upper middle class and the upper class, just as in the US or the UK. Nonetheless it was the Constitution.

            Allende then proceeded to act outside the Constitution, and lost the support of the Christian Democrats and a number of strong unions. Parliament, with a strong majority, called for him to be ousted by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court rule 9-0 against him.

            Pinochet, who indeed did have the backing of the US government, then proceeded to act on his own to oust the discredited Allende government. The Christian Democrats had warned Allende that his decision to rule by executive decree would bring on a backlash from a rabidly insane far right (many of them cousins to the Christian Democrats). Even the US had no idea how savage Pinochet would be. But of course the US continued to support his government.

            I had a relative very, very high up in a corporation that worked with the CIA to undermine Allende. He later came to understand how horrible the whole coup was, returned to his Catholic religion, confessed his sins (including the huge one against the Chilean people) and was about to go public with his knowledge. Suddenly he was found dead of a “suicide.” There was no way he committed suicide.

          • bonbon

            It is well known the Chicago Boys put Pinochet into power, which Maggie warmly supported with invitations to diner. Pinochet implemented their economics. Sir Henry Kissinger is widely known as the author of the coup against Allende. Henry has boasted publicly that in 3 US Administrations he always served the Crown. I take him at his word.

            We discussed Iran in another theme here, and “kar inglese” the British hand is a well known phrase there.

          • EMMETTOR

            Reagan (and the Argentine Junta)procured arms for the Contras (counter-revolutionaries), not Sandinistas (the elected government) in the Iran-Contra affair (clue!). Various studies have shown how it was much better for your health to be in the USSR’s backyard than the USA’s.

      • bonbon

        9/11 was organized by British Aerospace Engineering, BAE, in conjunction with Prince Bandar of Saudia Arabia. The funds were the Al Yahmamah (dove of peace) deal signed by Maggie, where 1 tanker of oil per day was delivered to Britain over 30+ years for arms – about $180 billion unaccounted for somewhere in the Carribean. This is the terrorism slush fund. Blair shut down the serious fraud investigation which came close to opening pandora’s box. Obama has refused to FOI the redacted 28 pages of the official report referring to Bandar.

        Now Saudia Arabia is up to more of this with Syria, no surprise.

        • Adam Byrne

          Why on earth would BAE organize the 9/11 attacks? You must be off your rocker mate, hahahaha!

        • redriversix

          Correction ! full name Prince Bandar Bush as he was fondly known in those circles,not aware of B.A E before…?

          • bonbon

            Yes a personal family friend at Crawford Ranch. 1 plane was allowed out of the USA after the lock-down – that which carried the guest Saudi Royals home.
            BAE and Al Yamamah. There is where to look. The 28 pages that Obama promised the 9/11 victims in election mode, still have not been released.
            We are talking about $100+ billion slush fund that turns up in all terrorism, and the Bandar activity is there.

          • bonbon

            BAE was involved in a major arms scandal under Blair. It is a place that focuses strategic British policy.

            9/11 must be seen as a failed Reichstagsbrandt, the trick Hitler set up for Enabling Laws. Massive changes were made to US law, but so far the Constitution has not been torn up. The NDAA is almost the last straw, by Obama even worse than Bush.

            So why 9/11? To destroy the US Constitutional republic (as Franklin named it). Who on earth would want that? Why its enemy of course! If that includes the Bush 3 generations, Cheney, Obama, Rumsfeld, who is surprised. How many even here rant against Government, common good, national banking, Apollo….

            Killing JFK was the only way Vietnam could go ahead which ruined a generation, and killed millions, produced Pol Pot.

    • paddythepig

      Hi Colin, hope the new gig in London is going well.

      David has never spoken out against the Croke Park deal. So come on David, where do you stand on the Croke Park deal? I think this topic is worth at least one article.

      An analysis of all Government spending, and where all our taxes go is well worth an article too.

      • Colin

        Hi Paddythepig,

        Thanks. Yeah, its great, but I’m putting a lot of hours in, working weekends, and I’m on nights this week, but I’m not gonna complain, I’m lucky to be working especially when more talented and more experienced engineers than me out there can’t find work, so I always keep that in mind.

        I agree with you, David needs to come off the fence on this issue, because it is destroying the country. Cut teacher’s pay in half, reduce Garda pay by 30%, Nurses pay by 20%, ban overtime everywhere, and get rid of all the useless admin staff in all walks of life. Spend some of these savings on infrastructure schemes that are worthy of investment.

      • EMMETTOR

        Mary Harney (of all people) suggested that benchmarking our Civil Servants against the Irish private sector, rather than the public sector elsewhere in Europe, may have contributed as much to our financial meltdown as the problems in our banks. The cost of our public service trebled in a decade. There are senior Civil Servants, with no degrees, earning 3 times what a graduate earns in the private sector. There are others in the Civil Service stuffing letters into envelopes on €36,000 p.a. Social Welfare just spent a year and a lot of money disputing €180 with me, a dispute they had no chance of winning, they didn’t. On the other hand, the public service wage bill is keeps the consumer economy limping along & we probably shouldn’t target those who had their votes purchased by FF etc etc.

  23. bonbon

    Now that I see Varadkar talking about bombs, I think they know the derivative time bomb ticking can be set off by the slightest move (a perverse butterfly effect). He is right. Its derivatives, de-leveraging on a scale to make LTCM or Lehman look like a party.

    This is why Glass-Steagall is so urgent – we can offset this instantly. Of course the Gov’t's refusal to call for this is suicidal, and indeed a sign of a pact with the devil as DMcW shows.

    Burn the bondholders – and the very threat will cause an earthquake and policy change.

    It’s Creative Reason v. the Devil himself.

    I am on the side of Creative Reason. The Devil cannot win although we could exterminate ourselves.

    Glass-Steagall is a creative reasoning counter attack to blind unreasoning fear and terror. An intention, not waiting for “spontanweous” good to emerge from vice.

    • redriversix

      As I said before,I agree,we need re-introduction of Glass-Steagall but I believe they will fight tooth and nail to refuse it.

      Germany and France again talking today about FURTHER deregulation of Banks !


    • bonbon

      I posted earlier that comparing the obsessive pursuit of policy very like the Roman Mithra orgies to Magna Mater. This is not something any reasoning person can comprehend and just gapes!
      But when one catches that it is irrationality per se, an adoration of the negation of creative reason, that very essence that makes us human, one gets a real shock.
      Consider the further acts then as the final Mithra Orgy chorus.
      To think Rome based itself on this – no wonder Caligula and Nero appeared.

      It is so bad that archaeological reconstructions always omit the Mithra alters. One I saw at Vienne near Lyons commissioned by Daniele Mitterand, wife of the former president, has a statue of Cybele restored, with no explanation what this was. Mitterand’s faction is with this.

      Most have forgotten the Basilica in Rome was built on the central Mithra site.

      If this goes on the financial dictatorship will propose a religion! After all Mr. Blair lectures at Yale Divinity School on Religion and Globalization and his post-conversion to Catholicism TBFF, Tony Blair Faith Foundation, is active all over the place.

    • Realist

      Glass-Steagall is not enough as crisises existed before it too!!!!!!
      Derivatives are not creating new money so not destroying wealth just like that.
      It is always underline asset under the derivatives.
      The wealth is destroyed, at least in Ireland, by malinevsted projects aka unfinished building projects and such. We used our savings to spnsor these projects and now our savings are gone into that big hole + our kids will be paying for all of it in the future.

  24. Philip

    It’s very simple. You just have to see how the PR machine have spruced up all the cabinet and the rest of them there in FG & LP. They are all enjoying high life and do not want to see it coming to an end. The lunches, dinners in Europe are truly intoxicating. Why would you ever endanger that and maybe also endanger the prospects for your kids who’d like more of the same. This is what folks sell their soul for. Noonan’s view of the lifestyle choice just shows how divorced from on the ground reality he really is. These guys are probably trying to engineer a way of staying in power without needing to have local elections – simply their assignment by Germany would be democratic enough under a new treaty. Anything is possible.

    David says…What does this mean for global flows of money? It means that there are fewer and fewer safe havens. So, rather than making the world a safe place by doing a deal with the banks, the governments have made the world a less safe place.<<<<HOW TRUE….not just for money either.

    We are constantly dodging an issue that if left for much longer will cause real harm. There is a major gap between tax take and public spend. Even if we burned everyone. No amount of exports will deliver ant closure on the gap involved unless we double our population or half the civil service do a "life style choice". We are being led by idiots who simply cannot handle the truth and see salvation in the EU at the expense of Irish citizens.

  25. piombo

    Good Afternoon all,
    Stimulating article as always, however, I profoundly disagree with the central thesis that Ireland is in the clutches of the Troika because it chose to repay the Bond Holders and as a corrollary the Irish Government has betrayed it’s own people by continuing to comply with the program.
    The core undisputable reason why the Irish government behaves the way it does is due to the €15bn or so the State needs to borrow from the ECB just to keep itself open. If the State was running a balanced budget or even a primary surplus it would be in a position to face down the ECB and the EU commission. The State has chosen not to reduce spending and therefore it is dependent on ECB funding to survive.
    Therefore, the devil in question is not “Johnny Foreigner aka Troika” but rather the Irish political and Civil Service establishments who have opted for debt-repayment as the price to pay to maintain their status quo. Professor Morgan Kelly last May promulgated a solution along the lines of self-sufficiency by the Irish State as a prerequisite to renegotiation of the Bailout and was promptly pilliored by the establishment.
    As DMcW soometimes writes, cui bono?


      The property bubble is the reason the troika are here. As the Irish government bails out Irish-registered banks the troika is trying to make sure German and French banks won’t need bailouts. The Irish political establishment and the EU (same thing) are equally to blame for what’s going on, it’s not an “either or” situation. I forsee that, soon as the asset-stripping (Coillte, ESB, B.Gais etc) is done, then governments will start talking about reform of the gambling casino of international finance as the corporates will be able to extort directly from the population via power, heating, water, toll roads, etc completely by-passing governments. Democracy, The End.

  26. redriversix

    +1 Piombo,

    The last figure I heard for budget “shortfall”was 21 billion euro.

    So,agreed after this crisis is dealt with their should be a root and branch slashing of Government and its related running costs.

    It should be done concurrently but at the moment I am just glad someone turns up to open up the place and turn the lights on………..their management skills and ability to multi-task are some what limited…..!!


    • piombo

      Truth be told, the budget deficit is a fundamental driver of the crises as much as the State debt.
      To slash State spending by €15bn in 18 months would be the single most effective confidence booster of Ireland’s chance to regain Financial sovereignity.
      Of this €15bn, two thirds alone could be sourced from abolishing all quango’s and “insourcing” their remits to the various government departments. No hitting of front line services but a lot of unemployed 30/40 somethings for sure. Would do wonders to bring down prices and wages and allow for the economic renaiassance to begin.

  27. John LK

    Eireannach, are you a bankster ? Capitalism is dying and you don’t get why.

    When I signed my mortgage and borrowed for my shiney merc as you put it (Toyota actually) – I read the small print.

    It nowhere said that if enough of my neighbours borrowed too much and could not pay that the tax collectors in my country would pay and then collect off of me. I never signed a pact with anyone for this.

    I understood I was entering a pact with a financial institution and in the laws of capitalism if I could not pay I would lose my house and everything else. If the bank lent bad loans and could not collect money then capitalism would apply to them and they would go broke. Someone else would buy their loans cheap and then collect my mortgage.

    What has gone wrong here is capitalism has been replaced quite clearly by corporatism. Which looks like its leading to fascism. Have you studied your economic history of Europe in world war 2 build up ?

    They still want me to Pay Per Poo.

    I can’t believe it. Still scratching fagan about that one. I can’t in all conscience pay it. :)

    • Eireannach

      Is your septic tank in compliance with the 2006 EU Directive on Ground Water Quality?

      If it is, you don’t have a problem.

      If it isn’t, you have a problem.

      Will this EU Directive be enforced? Of course it will, because the EU is our government now, by remote control. Your council will come looking for the money or they’ll be fired for not doing their job.

      Don’t blame me mate. If I drive my car without a licence, I know I’m asking for trouble. If Ireland signs EU Directives into law but doesn’t bother to enforce them, then it was only a matter of time before Ireland would be pulled up on this.

      That time is now, this year, 2012. The EU IS our government, and they enforce the law, like in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Finland, etc, etc.

      If you don’t like it, go to Australia. But be warned – they enforce the law there too, especially omn Irish people, whom they suspect of being cheeky f**kers!

      Finally, I’m completely and utterly opposed to the banker bailout, but EU Directives are the law, I can’t see any way out of them.

      • Emigrant lass

        I agree. I think the old Irish charm is running out in Oz. The aussies are getting more fed up of us by the day here. Cheeky young lads are getting fired from work sites right left and centre here because the “cheeky feckers” reckon they can do and say what they like.
        We need to wake up and realise that we are replaceable!

        • Eireannach


          Lots of Irish were spoilt by their mammies. It’s as simple as that.

          • Colin

            Yes, and truth be told, most Irishmen get married so that they have someone to look after them. Someone to cook, clean and slave away for them. And Dubs are the worst for this. Read Paddy O’Gorman’s book ‘Queueing for a living’ published 20 years ago for a documented analysis on the mindset of working class Dublin males in particular.

  28. molly66

    I am lost in all this can I call it the one big ball of shite lie ,I cant get my head around how Greece is getting a big right down on it’s deaths and if they agree to the terms they will get a shed load of cash to keep the lights on,surely when they get the cash they will defolt any way.this must leave Ireland in a better way to stop paying the anglow bonds,why is this government paying these bonds the time to make a stand is now,kenny you are weak and spineless shame on you and your puppet government we are doomed with these muppets running the country.

  29. John LK

    Hi piombo,

    I would agree of course. We can’t spend more than we earn. The normal laws of economics should apply.

    The fundamental devil in the room , is that the capitalist system is actually crashing down around us at the moment precisely because big government spending on welfare and warfare has corrupted capitalism into corporatism.

    The politicians (elected by us) are never interested in doing the right thing, they are interested in getting re elected. Spend on welfare for poor votes and on warfare and opulence for rich votes.

    Small government – that is the government getting out of the way – would be positive in many aspects of life.

    If the Americans don’t vote for Ron Paul, maybe he would consider running in Ireland and teach our crowd a thing or two about true economic freedom as responsibility of citizenry. Including how we vote.

    We are all reaping what we sow. I just feel that somehow the end game is near. Why ?

    Cause they now want me to – Pay Per Poo

    It’s not a great legacy for Septic Phil

    Leaves a bad taste somewhere.


      You’re blaming the collapse of capitalism on governments spending on welfare??? Small Government = Big Business. Big Business =Corporatism. Cart before horse. You can’t seriously be arguing for a right-wing solution to a problem caused by the right. I don’t disagree with everything you say (Phil Hogan €674,000 expenses in 3 years!) but it’s more complex than that and you seem to have your political sides muxed dip.

  30. Philip

    The Civil Service has never been brought to heel. The Government are merely an extension of the Civil service. It is the Civil service that fundamentally drives all these pacts with the Devil.

    We have 300K people – a lot of whom are underpaid and with low morale all caught up in union rules based on a defensive stratgy needed during a bygone era. Percolating to the top of this manure heap are an elite who were never dealt with as a middle to upper management group would be in normal company. The whole thing is a nightmare of mismangement and waste that needs to be trimmed down to about 25% of its current size. As for the Quangos etc…words fail.

    So back to the pact with the Devil…there has been an ongoing culture of jealousy and envy back in the 80s and 90s by the Civil Service of the Private Sector. Remember the time they tried to tax the so called luxury of laptops? All so obvious. The rot accelerated with the arrival of the Euro. Pay parity was sought with the gravy trainers of the Brussels set and the die was cast. And for what?

    Theres’s the gap.

    Now, as for the banks and unguaranteed bondholders etc. this is a scam created by the Civil Service in cooperation with Banks to keep the whole show afloat. If you tell the EC to eff off, the gap becomes the next headline item in a hurry. But wait!! It is a headline item not just in Ireland but right around a lot of Europe.

    Let’s be be very clear here. I am not taking an axe at the underpaid, genuine service providers in the public sector. But I know many see the inefficiencies and they see the suits doing nothing about it and this crap is going all the way to the top all the way to the Cabinet and the lads in the EC.

    • Deco

      The biggest problem with the Public Sector in Ireland, is “efficiency” or more specifically, the lack of it.

      And the source of that problem is the nepotism.

      If you put people into jobs, not because they want to work, but because they canvass for you, then you will get subpar work performance.

      It is even more dangerous, if their motive for being there is to have a job to pay for their social life, and a job that accomodates an excessive social life – by there being very little work to actually get done.

      The HSE is over-manned. Yet it does not actually have enough people who do the essential work. In fact it never gets rid of the administration, porters, and “assistants”. But nurses and doctors are on rotation in and out of the HSE.

      • bonbon

        Why are “nurses and doctors are on rotation in and out of the HSE”?

      • molly66

        The HSE send away the very nurses the train and use agency nurses at a higher cost where is the joined up thinking there.

        • bonbon

          Do you mean they do on the job training for new staff, and then dump them to a contract agency leasing them back? Did this change since 2007 or 2000?

      • Realist

        1. No competition in public sector
        2. No way to test their services as customers are not going to run away from them

        It is impossible to calculate the cost and efficiency of public services due to above. There is nobody to compare to and nobody to attract customers.
        Only in public services you have deficit of bads, water, or even budget while private sector always serve customers.

        • Realist

          Sorry corrupted and fraudulent banks does not serve customers properly, but they are more semi-public or socialistic anyway as they always have somebody to bail them out: central bank by printing more money or governments bailing them out again to be paid by taxes or more printing money.
          The same is for other companies with huge government privileges.

      • EMMETTOR

        There are many problems in the Public Service, most of them are highlighted by the fact that they don’t occur in the private sector. Long service pay increases, lack of graduates, no meaningful management structure, no meritocracy, etc, etc. This is and always has been the price we pay for huge, inefficient, government bureaucracies. The corollary is excessive profit margins extracted by the private sector. In Ireland the problem is that it’s ok to pay crap money for bad service but it’s not ok to pay top dollar for the same crap service. What did we get in return for benchmarking? Did anyone see ANY improvement in the standard of service provided? All through the Celtic Tigger (sic) Social Welfare kept increasing their staff numbers, despite the fact that unemployment had fallen to structural levels. On the other hand, I’ve worked for many SME’s which were owned & run by idiots & where nepotism was the order of the day & arse-licking was the path to promotion.

    • molly66

      The Irish sit back and take the crap my only hope is that some other eu country will stand up and fight and show us how to fight,if we don’t we are fucked.

  31. John LK

    Eireanach, stick to the point of the article on pacts with Devils. You are definitely s bankster or a plant of some kind.

    I look after my poo, you look after yours.

    You are spouting enough of it.

    • Eireannach

      I’m a plant because I’m telling a bogger he has to pay his way and upgrade his septic tank to a level compliant with Ground Water Quality law?

      You’re the cry-baby talking about his “pay to poo”, when in fact you’re YET ANOTHER bogger breaking the law.

      • Colin

        Our country cousins feel it is their inalienable right to shit and piss and puke where they like, and let someone else take care of it, and most of all let someone else pay for it. So, next time you hear someone tell you, “sure it’s great living in the countryside, you’ve great piece and quiet, no noisy neighbours, no busy traffic passing by”, just remember the real reason is they secretly love the smell of their own waste.

        • EMMETTOR

          The real rip-off is not the poo tax, which has health and environment issues attached, but the house tax. A person from N Ireland recently asked me “what do you get for that house tax?”. “Nothing”, I said.

  32. Harper66

    “It is now patently obvious that the bank guarantee of September 29, 2008, bankrupted the Irish State and it is the extra burden of the consequent bank-rescue costs that will inhibit a return to solvency for the Exchequer……….The European Central Bank continues to insist that reimbursements in full be made to those who hold bonds issued by Anglo Irish — bust many times over, closed down and under garda investigation — at the expense of an insolvent State. This will in time come to be seen as one of the strangest episodes in the history of central banking.”

    Colm McCarthy


    • bonbon

      He has it all except the devilish part. The ghoul lurks between the words, unseen. They want to bleed the economy dry, after sucking Greece through a straw.

      When companies risk takeover or face hostile asset strippers, the use a “poison Pill” with options, shares etc hoping the other party chokes. I have seen that tried – it worked, but the victims poisoned were “excess engineering”.

  33. Malcolm McClure

    Seems like this blog is going through another Salem Witch-hunt phase. led by the usually estimable DMcW, the search is on for culprits of every shade of complexion to tar, feather and burn at the stake.

    Enough is enough.

    Mindless demagogery won’t get us anywhere. We need to stay cool, Assess matters day by day and wait for the inevitable collapse of some other fringe fiscal deficient.

    Nobody’s starving – yet. In spite of all that has happened Ireland is still considered a caring society. So, do your neighbour a good turn tomorrow. You may need his help soon enough yourself. No matter how bad things get, we can get through it. –But much more easily if we preserve our decent sense of values

    • Eireannach


      Tell that to the bungalow owners who refuse to upgrade their septic tanks to make them compliant with ground water quality law, but refuse to do so!

      This country is full of tax dodgers and has failed to enforce laws left right and centre.

      We’re either for enforcing the law, or against it.

      Cut the crap with your universal solidarity! We don’t have a shared enemy – as far as I’m concerned people who pollute ground water or cut turf on SAC or NHA areas – even though they’ve been financially compensated to stop – are the enemy of the law, and hence the enemys of Ireland.

      If we don’t face them down now, and win, their hubris and clamour to break yet more laws and start some pathetic fenian agrarian non-compliance farce will drag this country back 100 years!

      Banksters are a shared enemy of everyone – but outlaw boggers are the enemy within.

      I speak for most of Ireland when I say that. Look out cantankerous outlaw boggers! We are sick and tired of you and your pathetic councils who ignored planning guidelines, ground water law, building standards law, etc, etc.

      The whole sorry lot of you are going to be brought in line, and you all know it. Every one of you will be audited before this crisis ends.

      • Malcolm McClure

        Eireannach: With your emphasis on rules and regulations in the midst of a crisis, it seems that you have supped with the Devil, and the Devil spoke German.

        “We can work it out.” – But certainly not if anally retentive petty dictators assume they know more about local conditions than indigenous inhabitants.

        Since there seems to be a defecatory theme running though the blog at present, it is well within living memory that the majority of rural Irish made their deposits, not in banks, but Out the back. And it didn’t prevent them from raising a dozen healthy children.

        • Eireannach

          An EU Directive on ground water quality, applying to 27 countries, is the work of a German-speaking devil?

          You don’t live in some backward of Europe by any chance, do you? Somewhere that’s about 50 years behind like, oh I don’t know, parts of rural Greece or Southern Italy with their mafia or maybe rural Ireland.

          • Malcolm McClure

            I have the Homebond housebuilding manual (2001 edition) on the shelf behind me. A great deal was accomplished during the Tiger years in terms of planning and quality control –and paid for with stamp duty. All a done deal, long before the Troika came on the scene.

            That was the opportune time to address problems with septic tanks etc. – People now have other priorities and see tank inspections, water meters, heat budget monitoring and so on just as newfangled unemployment relief schemes, with the added benefit of providing new ways to extract tax from the pockets of hard pressed householders.

            Green hogwash butters no parsnips.

          • Eireannach

            I don’t care how “people see it”.

            The law is the law and it will be enforced from now on, and everybody knows it.

          • Philip

            Before you demonise the boggers and the way they apparently dodge the septic tank rules (clearly you have never been witness to the rather particular nature of planning inspectors who prevent builds from proceeding until base works are checked out – this practice is over the last 20 years or so and the householders in question are keen to make sure all is well for their own health), maybe you should take your ire out on the planning permission given to many architectural eyesores (apartments and offices) which are now proving to be utterly inadequate in terms of fire protection, insulation and sewage management together with utterly inadequate multitenant management mechanisms and laws that protect those who dwell within all of which according to your view is an impossibility.

            This is a management problem we have on our hands. It is one of ineptness, incompetence and a failure of accountability. Blaming an entire demographic merely supports these idiots. These same idiots are currently trying to place the largest dump and sewer in north Dublin on top of the largest fresh water cistern in the country – and in so doing, force another heinous crime of pumping the shannon to Dublin. We are dealing with idiots and dangerous ones at that.

          • Eireannach


            Yes we are dealing with idiots. My ire is not only directed towards people who refuse to comply with the law on ground water quality. Standards were very poor right across the board. The latest episode of Eco Eye on RTÉ TV (17 Jan) discussed insulation and thermal scanning of recent build. Not good results. It looks like practically everyone will have to pay up to €10,000 on insulation to get their houses up to BER A or B grade.

            That is why I confront any motherf**ker in Ireland who intends to break the law for his own convenience. It’ll be civil war, I absolutely assure you now.

          • stiofanc02

            I have a feeling the groundwater here is doomed and you are wasting your time getting all upset. Relax.

            Laws were made to be broken and the wink nod culture is here to stay.

            Dont get too upset by it as you wont be around when the pollution is so bad that the disease starts to spread into your area too, but that will happen in your childrens time.

            Too many people willing to cover for each other out in the country, I know, I live in the country and its rampant.

            Wink, Nod, do nothing, and no directives from the EU will change it. No one will go to jail and the slurry keeps runnin down hill.

            As for BER, A or B Like I told you the BER is a load of crap.
            No A or B rating proves a thing about the houses actual performance. Oh, and where you get this figure of €10,000?? I dont know. To get truly close to passive in a retrofit you are talking more like €25,000 and that might, maybe, get you a TRUE B rating for what its worth.

            These are recession prices too.

            Dont even bother coming back with some other figure as it will be wrong, I know what Im talking about.

            For example just to have your glazing replaced with
            K glass in an average 3 bed bung it is €4500, thats glass only.
            The balance of €5500 aint gonna get you too far.

            Not to say that the fools cant be convinced that they are getting a great job done, until I come along and show them what time it is.

            Anyway it doesnt matter as there will be very limited amounts of A or B ratings and unless you employ a expert to show the real rating, you end up with the SEAI BER clusterfuck of results, law or not.

          • Eireannach


            Spoken like a true builder.

          • Eireannach

            I can’t wait until the repossessions of the bogger outlaws begins.

            You’ll be all sent to Australia, where they hate your guts.

            Plus ça change!

        • Eireannach

          From Europa.eu

          “In October 2009, the European Court of Justice ruled that Ireland was failing to comply with the EU Waste Framework Directive 2006/12/EC (except in County Cavan). The case concerned domestic waste water disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual waste water treatment systems. EU law stipulates that the necessary measures must be taken to ensure that waste is recovered or disposed of without endangering human health, and without using processes or methods which could harm the environment.

          Discharges from septic tanks, of which there are over 400,000 in Ireland, have contributed to the micro-biological pollution of groundwater and nutrient pollution of surface waters. Human health is at risk because pathogens can enter drinking water sources via septic tanks that are poorly designed or badly maintained, and Irish legislation still lacks provisions for systematic periodic checks and inspections. As Ireland is still in the process of preparing new measures, the Commission is urging the country to comply with the court ruling of 2009. If the appropriate action is not taken by the Irish authorities, the Commission may decide to refer the case back to Court and request financial penalties”.

          • Adam Byrne

            The discussion on this forum is shit these days.

          • Adam Byrne

            If it’s not conspiracy theorists, it’s scatologists. I’m at my wits end here!

          • Eireannach

            Yeah Adam, you’d rather “sh*t talk” about burning bondhoders and assorted DMcW blogroll chit chat that has NEVER amounted to ANYTHING since the crisis began, than stoop down to the level of Ireland’s ground water laws and the insane mass movement, including posters on this site, to maintain the sense of entitlement to break those laws.

          • Adam Byrne

            Nah man, I’m just pulling your leg. I generally prefer to listen (despite some of the bizarre ‘material’ lately) rather than post unless I have a strong opinion on something. Carry on with the good work.

          • redriversix

            Evening all

            My name is redriversix and I am a Bogger…………yah man !

          • Adam Byrne

            Haha sorry redriversix, I lived in the Caribbean for over ten years so old habits die hard!

          • Adam Byrne

            We just shit in a bucket out there. No running water you see.

        • coldblow


          My grandmother got an outside toilet put in in out honout when we came on holiday in the early 60s. After we left she wonderred what to do with it and put a hen laying in it.

      • stiofanc02

        @ Eireannach
        spoken like the ASSHOLE that you are.
        Do you ever get laid?
        Probabbly suffering from erectile disfuntion or just plain ugly like your posts.
        You are a nasty foul hater who needs some “downtime”
        Maybe you should go read your bible dude.
        Or just sit on the “naughty” step for a while.

    • bonbon

      So you think Faust is a joke?
      DMcW’s assessment is cool, and lucid. And it points to the way out of this hell.

      What is mindless is the Troika behavior driving perfectly good European culture into pure hell. The mindless mantra of austerity, Euro-rettung (German, French or English), debt, is pure Mithra from a cellar where the sun never shone.

      This is Mandeville’s London School of Economics at work.

      • Realist

        Austerity has 1 good and 1 bad thing:
        Good – governments to reduce its size and reduce its spending
        Bad – increase in taxation as it harms people and businesses directly

        Pouring money into government projects (aka national banks) is the last thing I would do.

    • coldblow


      Salem witch hunt phase.

      Richard Webster would have agreed with your choice of words. In his view the Puritan legacy is alive an well in the imaginations of people who think they’ve progressed beyond all that sort of thing. His website is well worth a read.


      John Grey makes similar points I think. I wouldn’t agree with everything they have to say but there’s more than a grain of truth in what they have to say.

  34. Peter Atkinson

    The bould Michael Noonan reminds me of a heavyweight boxing contender from the eighties who threw all the right shapes when he was in condition but never had a shot at the title.All of a sudden the big hitters boxed each other out of the ring over the years and the opportunity arose for the wily one to step forward.He had experience on his side and not a lot of opposition so the title was his without much opposition.The hard part now is to retain the title which can only be achieved by boxing shadows and avoiding the tough bouts.No doubt he will hold onto his belt for four years with shrewd management but eventually he will have to face the big match and his weak chin will be exposed.At the moment he is definitely punching well above his weight.

  35. pauline

    Said it once will say it again, the politicians are only worried because we won’t be able to pay their wages..

    The greatest trick the Government pulled was to link their and the top civil servants pay
    to those who actually keep the State functioning, the Guards, the Nurses, the Teachers,
    the Council workers etc.

    Of course these are probably in the lowest sector of 105,000 who get paid en mass less that the top sector of 17,000.

    So lets use a little extra logic to use this figures to prove the point that everyone is making. We average out the pay except for at the lowest level where we keep 20,000.

    If we put a maximum salary of 50,000 Euros on all staff, whether this is by deferring pay or by pay cuts we immediately save .. wait is that 3 Billion a year, we don’t have to borrow?

    And we’ve got 288 million spare to open some hospital beds…

    Omigawd, I’m a genius….the IMF and EU are going to be so happy.

    Number Pay Average Pay Total Pay Total Adjusted Pay — Max 50,000 Saving
    105,745 €20,000; 20000 2,114,900,000 2,114,900,000 0
    143,919 €20,001 and €40,000; 30000 4,317,570,000 4,317,570,000 0
    102,676 €40,001 and €60,000; 50000 5,133,800,000 5,133,800,000 0
    40,941 €60,001-€80,000; 70000 2,865,870,000 2,047,050,000 818,820,000
    18,117 €80,001 and €100,000; 90000 1,630,530,000 905,850,000 724,680,000
    17,447 €100,000. 150000 2,617,050,000 872,350,000 1,744,700,000

    18,679,720,000 15,391,520,000 3,288,200,000

    That’s 9 billion in saving if we bring every salary down to 50,000 for three years..

    share the pain.. i don’t think so ;)

  36. PatMc

    David, you’re wrong!

    The banks were about to default and the Government stepped in to save them. Now the Government is in danger of defaulting and has lost its Triple ‘A’ rating. True.

    Markets have no memory, they only look to future investment opportunities. True.

    So, the Government should just let the banks default and start over.

    No! That ignores the key issue at stake here.

    If a major chain-store defaults, goes into liquidation and closes, no big deal. Life goes on.

    But banks are not like major chain-stores, they are more like major utility companies, only more so.

    If the electricity supply companies default, go into liquidation and close, then the lights go out, we all sit in the dark, the fridge doesn’t work, the TV is off, the computer screen is blank, trams stop on their tracks, cities are left in pitch-black at night and shops, cinemas, hospitals, schools have to close.

    If banks default, go into liquidation and close, then deposits are wiped out, the ATM machines don’t work, credit cards are no longer accepted, business can’t borrow on the short term markets to cover temporary liquidity problems, companies cannot pay their employees, there is no money for investment and economic activity as we know it grinds to a halt. That’s what happened in the ‘30s. And that’s what the ECB and other are trying to avoid happening now.

    Certainly the bondholders, who took the risk, have to take some losses. Angela Merkel’s’s haircut. And that’s what the current Greek negotiations are all about. One billion in debt is written off (losses to the bondholders) but new bonds issued for the remainder over a longer term, 30 years, and at a lower coupon, no more than 3.5% pa.

    Ireland was too hasty in agreeing to a total bailout of the banks (i.e. their bondholders) and should now look to renegotiate something similar. But default? No way, it would plunge the country into catastrophic depression. Like it or not, banks provide the economic life-blood of a nation.

    • Harper66

      Anglo was of no systemic value to Ireland. The only purpose in keeping Anglo going was to recapitalise its European bond holders. Anglo is as Colm McCarthy writes “bust many times over, closed down and under garda investigation”.

      This ATMS will run out of money guff is as much nonsense as is calling two zombie banks our “pillar” banks.

      We have wasted four years. During this time an orderly winding down of the two “pillar” banks could have taken place and a new solvent bank could have been put in its place.

      You are right every economy needs a banking system and at present Ireland does not have one that’s why our economy is in terminal decline.

    • Realist

      They are scared of default and full deleveraging because they have no theory or practice to describe what will happen.
      They do not understand the economy as their only solution till now was to print more money.
      Somebody said the best government can do is to reduce taxes so they default faster :)

      The main problem is putting new money into the lost projects keeping them, black holes without the bottom, afloat.

      • bonbon

        The terror of deleveraging is because of the speed the LTCM blewout in 1998 caused by a minor GKO bond default. Sir Alan and the FED had a weekend of sheer panic stopping in effect $680 billion leveraged 16 times from some baseline. The computers are running the Black-Sholes trading program. After all this is from 3 Nobel Prize luminaries so it cannot be wrong?!

        One of the results of LTCM was a real move to stop Glass-Steagall to enable MORE of the same. Perverse.

    • paddythepig

      Fair sensible post IMO.

    • gizzy

      Why does it have to be those Banks. Businesses have disappeared over the years to be replaces by newer leaner businesses. Same can happen in Banking. Are we now buying the pillar bank bullshit. You are bundling together payments, clearing, deposits. Each of these can be managed seperately in a new structure.

    • Johno

      What to you mean IF banks defaulted? Aib defaulted not too long ago and their atm’s didnt run out of money.

    • Colin

      Sorry there PatMc, if electricity companies default, the lights do not go out. We import electricity from several interconnectors. So, irony of irony, it would be British Nuclear power that keeps the lights on. Yes, the ultra nationalists and the environmentalists would rather have their teeth extracted than face up to the facts.

      And, the government would deploy the army to ensure electricity distribution, and the government would invite foreign electricity companies to come in and set up, and replace the overpaid overlazy boyos in ESB.

      Sorry PatMc, the lights will stay on.

      • bonbon

        I would no be so sure. Germany has done a suicidal nuclear exit, used to be a power exporter, now a net importer, straining the “intelligent grid”. If problems occur, like the catastrophic Canada-East Coast blackout a couple of years ago caused by a rolling grid shutdown (very intelligently indeed), France’s priority #1 will be to protect its systems. Germany a beggar for power? It was not the Greens that did this, but “conservatives”! Now the greens block the high voltage massive cabling from turbines!

        BNFL would love more customers, are doing quite nicely while prompting fools with windy mumbojumbo. Regular finds of 2 headed lobsters caused by Selafield keeps the paddies docile, what?

        So looting with a housing bubble followed with energy looting. Sure the Gov’t would call in EU firms, and bill the population for a new power system a second time! The trick of floating power firms which are already the property of irish citizens, is the same as the eircom swindle, or the telekom swindle in Germany. It is simply daylight robbery again.
        Look at Greece – a huge solar power buildup for export only to Germany, via cabling with huge power losses, while Greece is destroyed. 50,000 power disconnections in 1 week this month alone.
        That will be the fate of Ireland unless action is taken now.

  37. Magnetic Storms from Hell

    Perhaps this site might close down should the particle forecast occur soon this week . It is events like this that will paralyse a sovereign country / state and allow itself to be over run by foreigners when all control is lost .

    Just imagine the following closing down and out of control : Aviation , Banking , Telecommunication , Tax / Social Welfare Records crashing and decimating , etc

    It is my honest belief that such similar event when it does occur will make the ‘paying back the bondholders’ look very pale and insignificant when that time arrives. It will be like as if a new ball arrived on the pitch to kick.


    • bonbon

      Maybe not from hell, but hellish consequences. What worries me is the military have all essential components hardened, so that may be the only thing left working!
      Nature has a way of striking hard when mankind is about to try to kill itself. The Spanish Flu killed more than the trenches. Bush had no problem smashing Iraq but could not fathom New Orleans. Obama could not handle BP or Haiti, but wants war with Russia. Cameron wants to attack Iran but cannot handle the City.

  38. Johno

    Phew the housing market is afforable again……..Was getting worried for a while Id never got onto that all important ladder of success.


  39. Paris75013

    And we learn that the average salary in Ireland is €36,000! Not bad. The average salary in France is about 2/3 of that and taxes are much higher.

    Salaries (especially public sector) have a long way to drop in Ireland, and the sooner the better to get some sustainable growth back into the economy.

    • Philip

      True. But you at least get superb public services for your money. That said, France is not an easy place to do business in, has a lot of restrictive practices and looks a lot more corrupt in the higher echoleons than here.

      France is a big country with a big public service bill. Things could be changing soon enough.

      Also if you are living in Paris or one of their main cities, it is light years away of the denuded countryside where old and infirm have no young left to keep an eye on them. Institutionalisation is the only route left for many.

      For me, France is dying on its feet . This pact with the Devil is also bringing it to its knees.

      • bonbon

        I have been through entire villages empty. Whole areas of France have depopulated. Perfectly good rail services simply stopped.

        And they say we are overpopulated? Al Gore is a total nut.

      • bonbon

        The health service is in terrible shape – there was a strike in Lyons a little while ago, and the report of what went on in the hospital was so disgusting most could not believe it – re-using surgical supplies just to start. There is a 3rd world right here in the EU covered with a Sarko grin. In the UK it is even wors after Blair set up NICE, National Institute for Citizen Ellimination promoting efficience for the NHS- Peter Orzag who did the NICE-ly killing architecture became Obama’s death-panel man. All in the name of efficiency.

        • EMMETTOR

          Intelligent debate, please, No Tea Party bullshit!
          Yes “most could not believe it”…nuff said.

          • bonbon

            “Death panels” was not coined by Tea Party. They do exist. If intelligent debate means covering up Obama’s health care with euphemisms, it is not smart.

            One must bust this smirking attack on the very structure of society. It is not very NICE what happened to the NHS. Efficiency leads right to Liverpool Care Pathway.

  40. bonbon

    “The only way out is to see the light. There is no bogeyman. The markets don’t care. They have no memory. They want to finance new opportunities, rather than the losers who gambled on the banks years ago. Face them down. That’s the way you deal with bullies.”

    I agree with facing down the bullies, but the problem is the “bogeyman”. How does the Devil operate? How to “see the light”?

    The ghoul is in the mind, and before someone jokes, that is the most dangerous place to be. To track it down, by first catching the beast by the tail, assume it lurks right behind the nose.

    It would be really epic stupidity to exchange the Devil we know for the Devil we don’t.

    The Devil means the negation of creative human reason – and “the markets don’t care” is that! Belief in the markets “spontaneously” rescuing us is simply belief in magic, a favorite of the Devil. This is best explained in a famous poem :
    The Fable of the Bees, Private Vice, Publick Virtue which I unceasingly recommend to readers. The belief that the common good arises from widespread vice (read financial market interests) is pure irrationality at best, black magic at worst. Occultism institutionalized.

    The reason this is dangerous is it is taught as economics almost everywhere. Spontaneous order is explicitly unknowable therefore beyond reason. This is the footprint of the ghoul whose tail we now see wagging the elites.

    This is what disables, short-circuits creative action, disarms a concerted attack. Facing the ghoul down means facing up to the fact it is in the mind.

  41. redriversix

    Ollie Rehn predicts “mild” recession in Europe this year.!!!!!!!!!!!!

    If we are not in or heading for a Depression, I obviously do not know what one is.

    These guys just get either drunk or stoned on a daily basis or they cannot see the real economy from the Ivory towers they reside in….Crazy !

    • bonbon

      I am slowly figuring out what is driving them, I must say thanks to DMcW this issue.

      1) Wildly irrational belief in “the markets” by all strands of leading economic dogma
      2) Total subservience to perceived market moves including bond ratings etc
      3) Petrified terror at the “unknowable” derivative activity as IPx’s Cook said on RT deals “between consenting adults” totally opaque
      4) An incredible “pagan” belief talking up the markets – i.e. praying to those terrible “gods” of arbitrary whim. The gods S&P, Fitch, Moody are moody indeed!
      And we look at the statues on Easter Island and wonder. One for each Treaty, one for each tenet of economics. After they were all set in place the Rapa Nui disappeared!

      DMcW could go further – we have a heathen religion again. Used to be known as Mithra.

  42. sirganya

    Coming from Ireland and living in New York gives me a perspective on the current situation from both sides of the atlantic. In visits to Occupy Wall Street and conversations with Irish friends it seems to me that nobody has an clear idea of what could replace the current system. I put together a few ideas that could use technology to help make democracy more responsive and transparent. If you have the time please take a read and let me know if you find it interesting. I’ve been working in the web industry since the mid 90′s and a lot of ideas that seemed obvious to those of us in the early days are still yet to take hold. With the popularity and familiarity of facebook I think that most people are now comfortable enough to use similar systems for the democratic process.

    A pdf is available here


    and if you have any comments, negative or positive please post them here or send them to opensourceeire@gmail.com

  43. coldblow


    OT, but this thread is drawing to a close soon.

    I don’t want to stoke your conspiracy-theory zeal, but the following recent article on Hudson’s website might interest you.


    I haven’t got that far in the book yet. Also, I have no idea why Hudson has decided to post this extract just now. (He gives no explanation either.)

    • bonbon

      I fear the population policies are now becoming impossible to cover up and bringing this out now distracts from the other explicit option Obama is going for – a nuclear conflict.
      Sir Henry Kissinger penned the NSSM 200 only under FOI released not too long ago. This was the US population reduction policy for 30 years, laid out point for point, and country by country. Sir Henry has openly boasted he served in 3 US administrations while always serving the British Crown. Here we have the embarrassing item missing from that WB report.
      All of this has been known for years.

      “Confessions of an Economic Hitman” shows how the NSA implimented these policies, by one who realized what damage he was doing.
      Population reduction is explicitly Al Gore’s, Prince Philip’s, most of the Bilderberg’s, etc…

      On the referenced report he fails to mention the transformation of the US crops into bio-fuels. The numbers are unbelievable. We are literally burning food while people starve. This is the “sustainable” green agenda, top down.

    • bonbon

      Not OT, but the most devilish satanic of all. Making a pact with population reduction is definitely on topic.

    • redriversix

      Good link Coldblow..

      Interesting reading



  44. redriversix

    Lobbyists for BP in the UK today have been successful in their efforts that Bp can continue to work on a 20 billion dollar gas and oil field with their Iranian partners and NOT be effected by sanctions imposed on Iran by the E.U on the 23.1.12 !!!!

    India to bypass any sanctions effecting their trade with Iran by paying for oil in gold.China may follow suit.

    I am sure it is useful for American Oil suppliers that Europe will be “unable” to purchase oil from Iran from July 12 ?

    RT news


    • bonbon

      The pact with the devil to start WWIII starts with apparently meaningless sanctions. As Russia says, these have nothing whatsoever to do with non-proliferation. It seems Obama and the EU are hell-bent, led by Britain, to have war – everything else is irrelevant, normal business, trade.
      With this going on, the “free-market” is a fantasy.

      The other side of this is the bio-fuel lobby will turn even more arable land away from food to be “independant” of petroleum!

      So the war-avoidance moves by India, China, cannot themselves stop this drive.

  45. bonbon

    Moves to tear up the pact with the Devil using Glass-Steagall in France and Denmark :

    Today, Danish Business and Growth Minister Ole Sohn (Socialist People’s Party) announced the convening of a Financial Crisis Inquiry Committee, composed of four professors, a former bank director, and a former national bank director. In addition, representatives from the Danish National Bank, Finance Ministry, Economics and Interior Ministry, and the Business and Growth Ministry will also participate in the committee. Prof. Finn Østrup is for Glass-Steagall.

    Their mandate is to:
    * “Illuminate the international factors which caused the crisis in the Danish financial sector
    * “Identify special national conditions which helped create the financial crisis
    * “Illuminate if liberalization of the financial sector has played a role in the crisis
    * “Evaluate if bank advisors have contributed to spreading the consequences of the financial crisis
    * “Evaluate if the tighter controls, etc., put into effect to prevent such a crisis in the future, are sufficient and balanced, and if the regulation of financial concerns can be strengthened to good effect.”

    Freakout in France when candidate Holland anounced Jan 22 he is pro Glass-Steagall for bank seperation

    LIBÉRATION: “Hollande’s wording needs more precision. Does the Socialist candidate consider a strict separation between investment banking activities, on the model of the Glass-Steagall Act, at the risk of a loss of this sector’s international competitiveness? Or only obliging banks to create subsidiaries for their deposit activities as carried out recently by the [U.S.] Dodd-Frank Act and as recommended by the [British] Vickers report? The second option would be undoubtedly a lesser evil for the French bankers…. However, it would have a financial and social cost. The honorary president of BNP Paribas warned: ‘Jobs depend on our status as a large international bank with decision centers in France: 15,000 in Paris for BNP Paribas.’”
    LE FIGARO: The British took 15 months to study banking separation to be adopted in 2015 and to be applied in 2019. “We have time to see. So, it would be damaging to go ahead with a project which is adapted to a banking system which is not ours.”
    LES ECHOS: “Bitter and astonished, bankers, who hardly want to respond publicly on the subject…. Such an attack nourishes distrust among households about the strength of their banks. ‘The slightest rumor or alert can provoke a bank run,’ worries a consultant.”
    LA TRIBUNE: Explains FDR’s Glass-Steagall and notes that this represents “a separation which the French banks, characterized by the model of the universal bank, don’t want to discuss.”
    TRADE UNIONS: (Their statements make you wonder who pays their bills.) The financial daily {Les Echos} highlights the unionists’ concern that Hollande’s proposal is “inept… a phony good idea” which will not prevent the excesses of the banking system. This proposal doesn’t go far enough, only the nationalization of the banking sector is a solution,” says Dany Bellette, secretary general of SUD-Banque (trade union). “Making a separation of activities is too hasty. Perhaps you will make retail banking more secure, but the investment banks will go on doing what they want,” Sébastien Busiris of the Force Ouvrière banque trade union.
    CENTRIST PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FRANÇOIS BAYROU: Bayrou, perhaps unintentionally injected humor into his criticism of Hollande, saying that “for myself, my enemy is unemployment.” His blast at Hollande for saying his “enemy is the world of finance,” critiqued the Socialist’s speech that “to choose an enemy whose face no one knows and no one can verify whether or not you have victory over this enemy, that’s practical, convenient, but there are decisions we have to take here at home, to roll back unemployment.”

    • bonbon

      Holland comes close to naming the faceless enemy that DMcW has pipointed in this theme. Some extracts :

      In the first major speech of his campaign in Le Bourget before 25,000 supporters, Hollande started by saying that “being President of the Republic means preserving the state, its neutrality, its integrity in the face of monied power, in the face of business, in the face of communalism.”
      “Let me confess a secret, a secret which I kept for a long time but which you undoubtedly have discovered: I love people, where others are fascinated by money. I take each glance as an expectation, each face as a curiosity, each handshake as an meeting, each smile as a chance.”
      “I’m going to let you in on something,” said Hollande, “In this battle, I’m going to tell you who is my adversary, my true adversary. He has no name, no face, no party, he will never stand for election, hence he will never be elected, and yet, he rules. This adversary is the world of finance. Before our eyes, in 20 years, finance has taken control of the economy, of society, and even of our lives. Now, it is possible, in a fraction of a second, to move dizzying sums of money, to threaten states.
      “This stranglehold has become an empire. And the crisis which has raged since Sept. 15, 2008, far from weakening it, has strengthened it even more. Before it, this finance, promises of regulation, the incantations of ‘no more of this,’ are a dead letter. …
      “If finance is the enemy, then it should be fought with our means and first of all, at home … by knowing this will be a long fight, a tough challenge but in which we bare our weapons. Conquering finance starts here with a vote on a banking law that will force them to separate their lending activities from their speculative transactions. No French bank can have a branch in the tax havens.
      “Toxic financial products, in other words, without ties to the needs of the real economy will be prohibited, pure and simple. Stock options will be eliminated. And bonuses supervised.”
      Hollande, if elected, will propose a new friendship treaty with Germany in the spirit of the de Gaulle Adenauer treaty signed 50 years ago to engage a common dynamic in favor of growth, solidarity and protection.

  46. redriversix

    Is the U.S Federal reserve [ Bank ] a private entity ?

    It seems the fed ,up to the 18/1/12 has “swapped or lent” 103 billion dollars to the ECB,without selling treasury securities to back up this money…..is this QE3 or an American led bailout for Europe or was this “money”just printed out of thin air…?…is this eazy credit for EU Banks and how do they pay it back ?………..is this the money being used to by Greek debt bonds and other Countries ?

    • bonbon

      The FED is illegally bailing out the Euro using swaps to get around Congress who will never agree.

      Geithner and Bernanke out of control. I posted here to tell that to the US taxpayer and duck!

      You can bet $103 is only a 10th of what they have funneled across the Atlantic.

      Why would they do that? Derivative counter parties in the 5 TBTF monsters who already got $17 TRILLION from Bush-obama. In other words not a cent will go to any citizens anywhere.

      The FED was created by Teddy Roosevelt to break the Treasury into a British-style central bank ( or 12 ).
      Geithner is Goldman Sachs.

      Interesting note about GS. BP chairman Sutherland was also GS chairman, in fact GS and BP operate as 1 entity. Sutherland is the one who forced the Irish Bank guarantee! That’s all in the RT 239 episode I posted here.

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