November 1, 2011

Yet another golden opportunity is missed

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 400 comments ·
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With the agreement on Greek default last week, the government has missed yet another gilt-edged opportunity to renegotiate our odious bank bondholder debt

Did your granny have a ‘good room’? I bet she did. Mine did. In fact, my granny had a good room that was so good I wasn’t good enough to go into it. In truth, none of my family was good enough to go into the good room. The good room was kept for people who were obviously ‘gooder’ than us. The key was hidden and the door opened only on special occasions.

On the odd Sunday, someone important might call by, the priest or the local doctor. The good room was opened, china and delph dusted off and our family, on our best behaviour, pretended that we ate from Wedgewood china every day. My granny was pretending to be posher and richer than she was.

The interesting thing was that, not only was my granny pretending that we were posh, but the truly posh were also pretending that we were posh.

They went along with the good room charade, knowing full well that the minute they left the house, the room would be evacuated, the china wrapped in old copies of the Irish Independent and the key hidden away. But for one afternoon, everyone pretended that we were socially equal and, when the pretence was over, we went back to our real existences until the next time the good room was opened.

The key was that no one was embarrassed. They wouldn’t embarrass us by pointing out the ‘special occasion’ and we wouldn’t embarrass them by making them feel superior – even though they clearly were, and everyone knew it. My granny and all the others who had a good room weren’t secure enough to tell the truth and to accept what they were, rather than what they might have liked to be.

In reality, the good room – far from narrowing social inequalities – reinforced them. Really posh people didn’t have a good room, because they didn’t need one. The good room is unique to Ireland and lives deep in our national psychology.

It suggests an insecurity, and it hasn’t gone away, you know. This insecurity resurfaces again and again. We Irish prefer to be liked more than be feared. And the last thing we will ever do is embarrass anyone by being awkward. I have asked German friends does the good room exist over there. They have never heard of it.

This deep national characteristic may go some way to explain why our government did nothing last Thursday in Europe, when a gilt-edged opportunity presented itself to renegotiate our odious bank bondholder debt. Something must explain the fact that the Greeks got a huge write-off on their debts and we, with our debt/GDP ratio approaching 120 per cent – far above that which is regarded as sustainable – did nothing.

This column has argued (in the face of the usual hysterics from official Ireland) that a default would prompt a market rally. That is exactly what has happened after the Greek default. Markets rallied – as any basic understanding of finance would have forecast. Indeed, the rally would have been more significant had we cleared up our balance sheet.

Basic economics tells you that a debt-burdened balance sheet is never made better by more debt, but always by less debt. So standard economics argues also for debt relief. Furthermore, the EU is based on political reciprocity – what goes for one country needs to go for all. For example, the internal market is based on the equal treatment of capital in each member state. If Greece gets a write down, so can others.

Despite all this, we did nothing. Why? Clearly neither economics, finance nor politics explains our position. What does?

Keep the good room story in your head and leave Ireland. Let’s go to Brussels. The new good room is Brussels, where our negotiators are like my granny, never feeling quite secure enough to state the real bottom-line position. They are too insecure. They don’t want to cause a fuss or be an embarrassment to anyone. So, rather than stand up for ourselves, we sit in the good room, only too delighted to be treated as equals by the French and the Germans. We swoon at their tacky flattery.

Our real position is that we should look for the same or similar treatment to Greece because that is the way a monetary union works. We should also have had the self-confidence to highlight the duplicity of last Thursday’s deal, which looks set to lead, in time, to the rest of the EU helping to bail out bust banks, perhaps even some French ones.

The enlargement of the EU rescue fund surely makes it inevitable that EU funds will in future be used to bail out banks, as the full scale of their losses emerges. Yet the EU expects us to still pick up the bill for our banks.

And we sat there in the new good room and said nothing, despite the fact that the EU was laughing at us.

Worse still, not only did we not point out the evident duplicity in the way the banking systems of different countries will be bailed out by the union while we were asked to sort out our house ourselves, but we actually said it was a good deal for Ireland. It is a disastrous deal for Ireland, because we could have used Thursday’s negotiations to our advantage in order to co-opt Europe into our banking bail-out.

After all, wasn’t this how this government was elected? Do you remember that? Worse than defeat is acquiescence, because we are so craven in the good room of Brussels we actually came out cheerleading a deal that gave us the two fingers.

Why is it that the Irish government never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity? Why is it that we will pay over €700 million to Anglo bondholders this week, when we could have had all this written off last week?


  1. Adam Byrne

    subscribe.

  2. Dorothy Jones

    Sorry?
    Not wishing to appear impolite but in the face of the scale of pending events; it may be best to get out of the ‘Granny and Her Good Room’ mode and publish some hardcore analysis. This is Enya to an audience needing Schoenberg….

  3. dorn

    This is the world of the career politician. The will of the people or good of the nation means naught. Ireland has no other kind of politician bar a few independents. The only way to change this is to make TD terms time limited similar to the president, and to have their pay and pensions reliant on their performance. In fact this should trickle down to the entire public service. Cushy jobs for life – where you cannot be sacked no matter how poorly you perform – is what got us in this mess. That needs to change to get us out of it.

    • MidasMoney

      I suppose dorn that would be a bit like how the bankers were paid on performance. How’d that work out for ya? I’m not in the public service, but I know enough to see when they are being scapegoated for the sins of others. We may indeed need changes in the public service system, but public servants work the system. Divide et Impera, the old trick of the gangsters. Keep the spotlight off their hands in the till by keeping the rabble squabbling among themselves.

      It was not the public services around the world that got us into this mess. It was the oligarchs that control the governments, the Wall Street performance based spivs and shysters who demand “gimme money or i’ll crash the global economy” The criminals who have gamed the system and their political shabbos goys. Check out Micheal Hudson and Bill Black of Univ Miss at Kansas City. The scum own the gummint, just like they did here.

      Yes our politicos screwed up. But as I recall, at the election in 2007, all the parties were still promising goodies, despite the fact that even then the writing was clear on the wall. Just as the present coalition promised before the last election that they were going to do the divil and all. Instead, what we get is more of the same. You couldn’t make this stuff up. What more could we expect from indakenny anyway, the little boy running around pointing, trying desperately to appear to be a man. Which only shows what his true estimation of himself is. The invisible man, longest service member of the Oireachtas, leaving no footprints to show his presence. And we elevated him to lead the country? Mother Ireland, you’re rearing them yet. Who was it once said that you get the govermment you deserve?

      We need to lose our delusions of respectability, decency and sure it’ll be alright. We need to grow a pair and grow up and realise that you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you win through might and main and negotiation and blackmail if need be. We could try the same ruse as the banksters, gimme money or i’ll blow your euro house down. We should have done this from the beginning, but Irish people seldom have spine and guts. And our politicians are a reflection of those who vote for them. I think we’ll get plenty of opportunity as we face what the future holds for us. As used to be said, when the going gets tough, the tough get going. Final cliche to sign off, that’ll sort out the men from the boys!

  4. I appended this as comment to previous article, but in fact its more appropriate here:

    Responding to the notion by a poster on the topic of freedom:

    “Now that’s a laugh, surely you mean ‘free country for bankers’

    You fell for the carefully orchestrated heist!

    Arguably bankers because of no prosecutions from the judiciary, now they pocket any over zealous politicos looking to investigate and bring them to account.

    Debate was muffled into a presidential election to avoid as little debate as possible.

    We are more concerned with safeguarding the delinquent bankers than safeguarding the rights of the people.

    I notice how Enda Kenny was very quiet on the amendment.

    Don’t rejoice in this as an exercise in democracy. It wasn’t. Most people were totally confused, misinformed and at the end of the day; if in doubt, vote no, was the norm.

    Did you see any promo campaign mounted by FG/LB on tv to explain how this device would be used to bring banxters before the people? No.

    This is worth a read in order to be fully informed on the isssues involved:

    http://www.humanrights.ie/index.php/2011/09/12/reversing-abbeylara-a-commentary-on-the-thirtieth-amendment-of-the-constitution-bill/

    Typical of this country, often critique is one sided, describing problems, not pointing as well to solutions.

    This often makes for weak argument because it is in illustrating solutions that problems often get described in their true light.

    It should be possible to make a SS4 amendment to the 30th to take into account the fears of unbalancing the constitutional rights of the individual: namely, by allowing individuals to have their constitutional rights vindicated in the courts, IF THEY SO WISH; or, by further going to external courts of human rights.

    I believe the above is what is meant in the word balance as used in the SS4.

    But heck, there should be no problem adding a further section SS5 to put this in writing, that the individual has a right to test in court if their rights ‘on balance’, taking into account the rights of the people, the ethics of the legislation, their own personal rights, have been fairly upheld.

    This would avoid the ludicrous situation preventing inquiries finding against banxters for fear their right to undamaged personal reputation was not being upheld.

    Think of Al Capone escaping because the accusations before the court may damage his reputation!

    Banxters shouldn’t be allowed escape on a stupid technicality.

    Responsibility for Failure of the above to pass must rest with Enda Kenny freshly returned from the summit with Ireland’s reputation for gombeenism intact having obtained The Big Zero concession for Ireland.

    Enda in a couple of days will oversee the transfer of €700,000 of Irish taxpayers money, unsecured, senior bondholder debt, already discounted and bought at knock down prices by speculators, to these speculators.

    The image of a nazi uniform comes to mind with Irish taxpayers being loaded onto trains for Dachau as they head for prosperity and growth.

    Re David’s “We are being killed by flattery and rather than taking this enormous opportunity to clean up our balance sheet, we are succumbing to cheap flattery because we are insecure.”

    David has to up his game. This is nothing whatsoever to do with our “insecurity”.

    This is everything to do with the security of manipulative powerful forces in Ireland that have the island in a death grip and they don’t intend to let go anytime soon.

    No amount of proslytising or Peter Pan correction of false logic from any of us will have any effect on their intent to favour bankers over and above the interest of the people.

    We’ve got to move beyond the child crying out, “The emperor has no clothes on”. We need adult specialists, the untouchables, to clean up the mess.

    They have us bought, sold and hogtied through NAMA, IFSC, and lately the end of the 30th..

    We await the shock therapy of their budget!”

    So above, David draws on the analogy of the ‘good room’, an analogy he has used before.

    Frankly, David has to up his game with critique that is rather more piercing than becoming reliant on baubbles of the imagination left over from his youth to make his point.

    Its rather childish to believe our negotiators are in the game of embarrassment, flattery, immaturity and to allege this motivates their demands from Europe. Wakey, wakey, David! Its rather more self preservation of business models based on debt extraction, rentier, property bubble livelihoods that are keen to be preserved in the Irish finance industry and property market, that is at stake.

    We don’t need luke warm, lack lustre critique, however celebrity entertaining this may be. If David continues down this road, he is in danger of becoming a caricature of himself and more importantly, he is in danger of destroying his own potential.

    The opposition in this country, us all who disagree with government policy, must be somewhat shamed this morning, to see the success of the ‘indignados’ and ‘ows’.

    There are good politicians around, such as Papandreou and Merkel and they listen to their people. Maybe David doesn’t want to blot his copybook with Pravda RTE, fair enough; but politicians will not be persuaded by DmcW telling stories about his granny’s room!

    Opposition in Ireland needs to up its game and become more focused and professional in its critique of Irish government policy led by the Big Zero, Enda Kenny, who, tomorrow will hand over ¢700, 000, 000 of Irish hospitals and schools to speculator investors paid off on criminal casino bets of a corrupt and delinquent rogue, Irish bank run by the Irish mafia.

  5. Die gute Stube

    I have asked German friends does the good room exist over there. They have never heard of it.

    Well, regards to your german friends, but the concept of ‘Die gute Stube’ , and even down to using a specific set of porcelain – Rosenthal Dorothy? – and the rest of your description is equally known in Germany, perhaps with slight variations, but the very same principle.

    Clearly neither economics, finance nor politics explains our position.

    Politics does explain it. EPP politics very much explains it.

    The enlargement of the EU rescue fund surely makes it inevitable that EU funds will in future be used to bail out banks, as the full scale of their losses emerges.

    ….As the full scale emerges…. miraculously, our of nowhere, ever greater losses appeared, did we not see this happening since years now? Yeah that’s right! AIB got x-amount of taxpayers money, four days later, they come back, ‘Sorry need a few billion more.’ and so on.

    The EFSF was doomed from the beginning and nothing but the continuation of old and failed policies.

    Why is it that we will pay over €700 million to Anglo bondholders this week, when we could have had all this written off last week?

    Well, that is a good questions and I suggest to pack it into the same bag of Anglo Irish Bank related questions that remain a secret behind closed doors. Much more is or was buried in this bank than politicos want the public to know, there is no doubt about it.

    • In addition:

      If you try yourself in psychoanalysis, you might be better served to read Franz Kafka’s ‘The Castle’ instead, Kafka was astute in these things and on the button concerning our Situation in many ways.

      However, perhaps you should take your sleeping bag from the attic, send the mice dismissal without notice and spend a few nights with the people in Dame Street instead, I would not be astonished if you find their analytic skills to be of great benefit to you.

    • I have asked German friends does the good room exist over there. They have never heard of it.

      btw. It tells me a lot about your german friends in deed, very easy to profile!

    • Dorothy Jones

      Georg – more likely to be Wedgewood [China] rather than Rosenthal in IE….

    • Irish PI

      Very true Georg..Die gute stube was certainly a feature of my German grannies household as it would be with any gute Deutsche Hausfrau[good german housewife] of a certain generation!!IE up to post war Germany.In fact the current generation who is running Germany at the moment.You can bet Frau Merkel has one as well…Not that I reckon she has to worry about Enda &Co pouring the Tae into the Rosenthal or Dresden saucers to cool it down and supping it that way.[They proably fan it with their caps]

    • Malcolm McClure

      David gives an interesting vignette of class attitudes in this article.

      In second and third rate Georgian and Early Victorian terraces the Parlour or Good Room was a self-conscious middle class equivalent of the Morning Room arrangement found in first rate houses of that time. These rooms were always located beyond the first door on the left (or right) of the entrance hallway in contemporary terrace dwellings.

      The morning room was where upper class males conducted their business, paying bills and receiving rents, and females occasionally entertained middle class friends to tea. Their proper Drawing Room was upstairs first floor, facing the street. It was reserved for family and posh friends, and was where the Wedgwood and Worcester ware was displayed.

      Ireland has been admitted to the Good Room in Brussels, but it will be a long time before we are admitted to the Drawing Room, which is reserved for the Germans, French, Dutch and (holding their nose) the nouveau riche English.

  6. DarraghD

    Lol, my Nana used to call the good room, “The Parlour”, only opened on very rare occasions, I always remember an old 1960′s record player in there with a big Don Williams record!

    The whole thing was a pretence, it was gas to see it, I reckon it was an overhang from the tenements, when folks eventually got out of the city slums and found themselves with a spare room, they genuinely didn’t know what to do with it. It’s sad to see that that is where we appear to be going back to…

  7. Puschkin the Black and White Cat

    Why did Noonan do nothing for us?.
    Answer, he is a bully, this was seen in his disgraceful treatment of Bridget McCole. When threatening a dying woman with homelessness for her family he was a BIG man. But when sitting in a European forum he was as all bullies are, a little man trying desperately to fawn up to the “better people” in their “good room”. The Cat is disgusted.

  8. piombo

    Good morning all,
    Good metaphor which only tells half the story though. The real deal for the inexplicable inertia lies in the three letter acronym, CDS. I acknowledge this is not new from me, but with all the admiration for David’s advocacy, I am convinced that unless the Irish and others are at least informed who are the ultimate losers in the case of a default, we risk misdirecting our “righteous indignation”. Essentially, there are circa 10 Wall St banks and 4 European banks on the hook for a total of $3.2 trillion CDS’s should defaults start materialising. This is where the real battle line is drawn. I would venture a wager that this gang of 14 are unable to meet their eventual liabilities and would be faced with bankruptcy followed by fraud etc.,
    The above is, inmo, the real reason why our government seems like a deer in the headlights as they are simply waiting for their ultimate creditors to go “pop”!

  9. Puschkin the Black and White Cat

    The Cat was reminded to research the words “odious debt” as used by David.

    Odious debt is defined in Wikipedia as:

    In international law, odious debt is a legal theory that holds that the national debt incurred by a regime for purposes that do not serve the best interests of the nation, should not be enforceable. Such debts are, thus, considered by this doctrine to be personal debts of the regime that incurred them and not debts of the state. In some respects, the concept is analogous to the invalidity of contracts signed under coercion.

    The Cat is still angry.

    • Yeah, David learned that word not so long ago.

      It is much more than a legal theory, it is established international law, and much feared amongst the establishment, hence avoided to talk about under any circumstances.

      http://www.unctad.org/en/docs/osgdp20074_en.pdf

      • And I distinctly remember you introducing the concept and it’s relevance Georg!
        That is the power of this forum – the quality education that is just not available any more in dumbdown mainstream media!
        To Enda I say “You know the way Paddy likes to know the story?
        Well Enda what’s the f**king story?
        And wouldn’t now be a good time for a referendum? Or is our lifeblood different to that of the Greeks Enda?
        (I’m actually fuming here.)

        • Puschkin the Black and White Cat

          Paul

          A referendum in Ireland ? , I think not ! , we don’t do referendi. We would just have to keep on voting until the fascists would have their way. I hear they will consider another referendum for the “inquiry” one they lost.

          The Cat says “NO PASARAN!”

          I visited the Dame Street protest and was very impressed.

          The Cat says “NO PASARAN!”

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQtUmqvrNxU
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFa0LpT2OHU
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6VeNad5uZ8

        • You know that I propose this referendum since a long time. It is the only correct political action possible in such a situation, and Iceland was the first to do it.

          The policy however plays on time, every week bondholder were paid, and they continue to do it until it makes no sense to have a referendum anymore, because all the dosh was wasted.

          If it would have been the case for Ireland to be the first to hold that referendum, I would have an understanding for the fear of politicos, but it was not, Iceland had the balls and the people to do it, Ireland has neither balls nor people left to do it.

  10. This is a brilliant move by Papandreou.

    Ordinarily, a move like this in a south american context, would see the military solve the problem eg Allende in Chile.

    However, this will be a full democratic referendum; the military cannot intervene because this would be seen to be the uncloaking of another side of EMU on its way to EUSSR, something everyone wants to avoid.

    There is possibly another rationale at work; that is, that Papandreoe has made a call that the EMU party is over; that its efforts to fund itself and deal with its debt financing; that the very model upon which the EMU has been built; is OVER.

    We should have our Plan B ready to go.

  11. The windfall this government now provides to Anglo Irish Bank bondholders should result in the public to demand them to step down. It is treason by any standards, go ahead and compare FF and Labor statements before the elections, and look at the reality now.

    These bonds were purchased in 2006 for as little as 46 cents (52 cents unweighted coupons)

    This government does not act on behalf of the people living in Ireland, but acts on behalf of special interests instead.

  12. Deco

    Excellent article.

    Keeping up the veneer is killing us.

    Now, we hear that Eamon Dunphy is to be kicked off Newstalk. He had Constantin Gurdgiuev on the radio every second Sunday morning, telling us the real truth about the economy. On Radio 1, Maid Marion was talking about “bread and circuses”.

    In the transcript provided by Newstalk concerning the dropping of Dunphy, it was revealed some concern (from our advertising sponsors, no doubt) about a lack of “positivity” in Dunphy’s broadcasting.

    The establishment are circling the wagons, implementing the curfew on bad news in the media. This is the key function of the mainstream media – keep up the activity that sustains the Ponzi scheme.

    Happiness will return, and we will all have permission (and instructions0 to feel better then Ponzinomics is back in action, and the FIRE economy (check http://www.itulip.com for an explanation) is rampant again.

    In the meantime, Ireland must maintain the veneer.

    Folks, the veneer is slowly killing us. Make sure that it is not sucking you or your loved ones. If it must bring down sovereign governments, their sucking vested interests, and all the useless paid gombeens who run them – then have a plan B.

    Those without a plan B will find out that the state is a machine for legalized extortion, deception, and when the sticky stuff hits the fan – murder via war.

  13. Deco

    Ireland – a society deceived into Hyacinth Bucket mode.

    IBEC are pushing the agenda. IBEC control the money. ICTU control the state apparatus. When both form a consensus, the common citizen is being lined up to be scelped.

    The first thing that we need to do to become free, is throw off the psychological condition, that is actively sustained for the purposes of keeping us from having the inquistitiveness that is necessary to know when we are being deceived, and prepared to be scelped.

    • molly66

      The Irish will be left like the Jews in world war 2 the Joe soaps the government is so far removed from real people,that they think they speek for all the people infact I think they speek for only vested intrest.what’s going to happen when the dec budget comes out in a months time it will be like a flood of water on the weak fire witch is almost out anyway.

  14. anthonybennis

    Ireland could have argued for a cut on debt like Greece. So could Italy and Spain… Would the markets rally if every nation in the EU with a debt ratio above 100% argued for it to be wiped off?

    • If the answer to your question is, ‘No’; then you have made a compelling argument for us leaving the EMU.

      Why stay, and look at our country destroyed by impossible debt burden that cannot be paid back?

      Why stay, and see rogue and criminal banks steal taxpayers money eg ¢700,000,000 tomorrow and watch The Big Zero Kenny herd Irish taxpayers onto the debt trains of Europe to keep open French banks so that they can lend back to us in further bailouts so we can ask them for further bailouts…MAMA MIA

      “I’ve been cheated by you since I don’t know know
      So I’ve made up my mind, it must come to an end”

      Sing along:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj2yWHvTGWs

    • molly66

      Write-off is the only way to sort the mess out and the longer we wait for this to happen the more damage to this country. Write of death now so we can get back on our feet and start to grow again.

  15. Colin

    I view decking as the modern day version of “the good room”. Decking is everywhere, equally pervasive as the good room used to be, yet can only be used for at most 10 days in Ireland. Its the same mentality as before, nothing has changed, mere substitution has taken place. We are deluded that we have a climate that suits decking. We are equally deluded if we think our best interests lie with being a good little boy for Europe. The meeja have copper-fastened this delusion. In short, the Irish Establishment is deeply corrupt and anti-intellectual.

  16. franta

    The good room is not only Irish phenomena and we should not be surprised if we find the good room even in Germany (Though I suppose like in Ireland it is a history now). My grandparents were farmers and they also had a good room but its purpose was not to pretend but to preserve and this is a very good thing and there’s no reason to be ashamed of it. Because they were living on the farm their normal quarters could not be kept so clean all the time and maintenance of additional room would take a time they did not have. The good room was indeed used only for special occasions but it included my or their birthdays (We did not live with my grandparents). I might be wrong but it is highly probable that David’s granny was a descendant of farming family.
    I just wonder if mannequin’s Kenny good room is also rather an attempt to preserve status quo namely insider benefits as their pensions, wages etc. They do not really know what they are doing and why but they can feel that if they let little Davids inside the whole thing will collapse.
    Because we know it will collapse (Enda wants us to pay it but I am not going to pay you are not going to pay it nor we can afford to pay it) we should be preparing ourselves for consequences of this collapse. With good and affordable infrastructure and a low energy cost we will be able to recover quickly but so far everything what our mannequins do assures the opposite. This has to be fixed first.

  17. Irish politician’s pervasive developmental disorder – Autism – concerning Anglo Irish Bank bondholders and Banks

    Irish politicians have proven over and over again that they suffer from impaired social interaction and communication. The ritualistic propaganda messages, the restricted behavior with extremely limited focus and preoccupation with a single program alone, regular occurrences of self injury, the sameness or resistance to change, they live in their own world, they lost all attachments to reality, and just as autism, it is anchored in the genetic code of Irish politics.

    Simple as that!

  18. rebean

    My Granny had a good room too. I smiled when I read your article. We were never allowed in the good room. My Granny was a great catholic like the rest of her friends and if the local priest came around the good room was opened. I can see that we have alot of goody goodies in the Dail and a few not so goodie goodies aswell but we got rid of those lads when we voted out the Fine Fail party. The goody goodies were always rewarded in Ireland . If you went to mass on Sundays and climbed into the wardrobe once a week to confession you might get the job in the local school and you and your family would be safe from emigration.We have alot of crap to go through now to please those Germans who gave us easy money.We were never able to manage ourselves thats why we needed the church or the Germans. We should get out on the streets and kick the goody goodies out of the Dail and start managing the country. Fine Gael are shivering in their boots when the big decisions are to be made. Maybe the recent election result will be a wake up call. It is however going to be a long 4 years with these cowards

  19. gizzy

    Couple of things we keep missing we seem surprised when Keeny Noonan et al behave in the way they are conditioned to behave and will always behave.

    Also the people threw out Fianna fail because they were deemed untrustworthy and dishonest. It is clear from the vote last week that people are not in love with Fine gael.

    The yes to the judges paycut was seen as a dig at the establishment. The no to the increased power for polititicians was the same. The presidential vote and Dublin West was a dig at Fine Gael.

    Fine Gael will tell themselves governments who make hard decisions are not popular and hide behind that excuse when the real reason is they are seen as having no backbone and are not respected.

    I have sent my e mail to Mr Kenny and will try and get as many others to do so also.

    It might be more effective to write to them than about them.

    ‘Mr Kenny you have no right or mandate to mortgage our future to bail out banks and investors.’

    to taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie

    • Adam Byrne

      I’ll send that off – for what it’s worth. Don’t expect any acknowledgement, response or action though.

      They don’t care about anyone except themselves.

      • gizzy

        No but we care

      • Steaf35

        Believe it or believe it not……I actually got an acknowledgement e-mail ……probably automated….!! Have requested that all contacts (business and private) submit the same e-mail….for what its worth…!! Maybe those that have some consideration for future of the state could rise ‘electronically’….(since nobody seems to be bothered to march etc..!!!)

    • Adam Byrne

      Subject line: Daylight Robbery.

    • “Hard decisions” is one of those bellyfeel NEWspeak Orwellian terms that need defining:

      “Hard decisions” for our gombeens means paying bondholders back with whatever can be extracted from the people while burning the people on a pyre of debt leading to the end of ‘The Irish Republic’

      It should mean saving taxpayers from being burnt on a pyre of debt paid to dodgy bondholders who should have known better.

  20. Taking owls to Athens

    The Merkozy solution for Greece as proposed last thursday, with a ‘politically accepted’ target of 120% debt to GDP in 2020, is the same as taking owls to Athens.

    This is no help for Greece, it is help for foreign interests, other than Greek’s.

    The ‘stay put’ mentality of Merkel has caused this greek tragedy in the first place. The real help, as was evident years ago and commented on by many, a Greek default was avoided, just in line with the EU version of political EPP autism.

    • molly66

      What Greece should do leave the euro and not pay any money back and we should do the same because I feel the euro has had it’s day if we ran this country the way it should be run instead of vested intreast protecting there intrest on till this happens we are at nothing.

      • The tragedy is that politicos like god damn Merkel are trumpeting the notion that Europe and the EURO is the same thing, it is not!

        Greece was forced into protracted default, and Goldman Sachs is pulling the strings, just like in Ireland. Go figure!

        It is all connected, it is connected even with the UNESCO vote, but many refuse to connect the dots, the public media for certain. Dollar hegemony is under threat, and this is what it is about since the old Bush went into Iraq.

        Add to the picture the hot spices of climate change and inevitable loss of hundreds of millions of people, plus the flood of refugees, plus the politics in middle east, the new emerging BRICS, and you have a powder keg.

        It is a very volatile situation on the international stage, and I fear for the next act to unfold, war in Iran.

        • Hi Georg. We have seen what happens to countries that decide to trade in currencies other than the dollar. Seek and destroy

          Attacking Iran would be the last resort of a psychopathic bully who has lost the intellectual battle

          Problem is Iran is a strong sovereign country with very powerful friends. That is why we should be very nervous if hear western leaders sabre rattling and talking about attacking Iran. Not in my name they don’t

          • I know, but if you look at the so called Arab Spring, the mind blowing weapons deal between the US-Saudis – 75 bn -, add Libya, and count how many guns are pointed at iran at the moment, there where never more guns directed at them in any given time. It is part of what Chomsky calls rightly the US grand area doctrine.

            The latest stunt of the alleged killing of the saudi ambassador, to me, it shows the will to create a scenario just like they did in iraq, shaking salt dispensers at the security council, and jabbering about WMD’s, and even afterwards then when were not granted a UN mandate, they attacked Iraq anyways, they give a damn about UN, on the contrary, they would be more than happy to have this Institution disappear.

            Just look how the mandate for Libya was stretched, and Libya was the last piece of the puzzle before the Iran scenario will be played out.

            Yes, you are right about the trading of oil in other currencies but dollar, three years after Iraq did that, Iraq was devastated. Iran started to trade in Euro and Yen, and excluding the dollar, back in 2008, now, that is three years ago…

          • EMMETTOR

            See today’s papers…

        • piombo

          Hello Georg,
          I’ve just returned from Berlin today after five days visiting friends with my family.
          As I assume you are a German living in Ireland, you are probably well versed in Germany’s success in achieving real reunification, albeit some disparity still exists. What troubles me however, maybe it is just a superficial impression, is the fear and foreboding that a breakdown of the Euro creates in the people there. With the exception of Deutsche Bank, no other German bank is exposed on the long side of the CDS’s. So why the fear? If one thinks about it, it should be the deutchen volke to clamour for the referendum, and not the Greeks, to release them from this mess.
          Unfortunately, I think you’re near the target on Iran. The magic 14 need their collateral back.
          Finally, I repeat my position, that our government is playing a long game of “cute whorism” hoping that the ultimate counter parties won’t be around to bag their monies.

          • Hi piombo,

            I envy you, Berlin in October is just beautiful. For certain, and as the Berlin elections have shown, or the Stuttgart 21 protests, the dissent with the political establishment is growing. The latest 55,5 bn HRE stunt is perhaps adding to peoples awakening what the financial industry is really doing here.

            The success of reunification has many flavors, I was active in this time on behalf of the entire german chemical and pharmaceutical industry, and nearly weekly ‘Unter den Linden’. What the Treuhand did in the name of reunification is more than disgusting, and the story has many sides to tell, it is too easy to call this a success.

            The fears you speak of go back to Weimar, Inflationary fears are engrained in the German psyche.

            Yes, you are absolutely correct to state that the German people should have that right of a referendum, but the german constitution, I should really say the piss poor rest of it that Merkel left us with after she was finished bending and twisting it backwards to suit Lisbon, does not provide for it.

            I go a step further, and would say that on these matters, concerning all European members, decisions of such a scope should not be made without a EU wide referendum at all. This EFSF design is the same policy of socialising private Bank losses, only now, they spread it over entire EU and try to drag the BRICS into it as well.

            In other words, if they were talking about fear of a flu like contagion, what they created now is the mother of all contagions, it is financial ebola, not attacking the problem at the root, in the banks and markets, but doing the same thing that brought us into the mess in the first place, spreading risk.

            On another note concerning fear, it the the most abused weapon in political close combat, citizens vs. establishment, of the past few years. The increase of pure propaganda shooting through media outlets is substantial, and it is linked to the overwhelming EPP influence in Europe.

        • Israel warns West: Window of opportunity to thwart Iran nuclear program is closing

          http://tinyurl.com/6kywkb5

  21. SLICKMICK

    Greece, followed by Portugal will exit the euro. It’s value will soar, Paddy will be screwed again.1992- DEJA VU. Filled a trolley in Enniskillen last week for £150, same price in Dublin was €300. Can’t beat ASDA. Iceland is ticking along nicely. Any chance of a referendum here ?

  22. conor

    Re “dorn” comments above.
    You may recall when FG/lab came into office Kenny promised open and honest government.
    In the light of your comment on pay pensions etc. the only way for people to know how government and civil servants are performing is to know exactly what they are supposed to do and what their responsibilities are, only then can we get accountability.
    To this end and to achieve “open and honest government” let me suggest the following:

    In every government dept. the job descriptions of say the top 30/40 civil servants should be posted on line for permanent public viewing, after all we are paying their salaries and as such we are entitled to see the jobs they are doing for the money we pay them.

    It is the norm when employed in the private sector that a job description is given to you when you are hired.

    The job descriptions for our civil servants would set out the duties and responsibilities of the positions, so both they and us(their employer) would know what they do.

    The above job descriptions would be accompanied by of course an “Organisation Chart” which would show where each job fits into the overall government dept. and most importantly who is responsible to who and the various reporting lines.

    The above would be a start in working towards ” open and honest government” as it would enable us, the ultimate paymasters of government to see what we are getting in terms work and responsibilities for the money we pay out. This would most importantly give us accountability which never seems to be a fact of life in the civil service, as the old chestnut, “it was not my responsibility” would not hold water any longer.

    This should also help in the area of poor performance where the excuse used by the government (it was in their contract) to pay exorbitant pay off etc. to people who fail miserably in their positions (e.g our last financial regulator)

    I would very much liked to have seen the government allow itself to be sued by the retiring Financial Regulator for payment under his contract based on the “good” job he had done, but with being able to see his job description we cannot judge.

    We as citizens are entitled to see what our civil servants are being paid to do and that they are doing it as set out in their job descriptions.

    So Mr.Kenny let us see “open and honest government”, starting where it should, at the top, “do not do as I say but do as I do.” so far Mr.Kenny you are not doing.

    Conor

    • I agree . I remember the IPA ( Inst of Public Administration once published details of all the key personnel in the four main banks in their annual IPA Book until about 1994 and after that stopped . I often wondered why .

    • EMMETTOR

      This is anecdotal but 100% true: Someone I know who is a very senior civil servant did a negative performance report on one of his subordinates, a senior civil servant. The subordinate, who’s on approx. €100,000 PA, responded with a solicitor’s letter. This illustrates what these people believe in…Entitlement, Entitlement, Entitlement. Meanwhile, in almost every aspect of their work, they spend their time making our lives as miserable as possible, denying people services they are due, ignoring their welfare rights, lecturing us about our personal behaviour, piling tax upon tax upon nit-picking regulations. The civil (and public) service is full of people who, through “long service” pay rises, are receiving at least double the money that their jobs would pay, in the private sector. As an example, it currently takes 6 months for an appeal against a Dept Of Social Protection (what a misnomer!)decision, while any deductions being appealed against stand. In any other situation 6 months doesn’t exist, it translates as “thanks, but I’m taking my business elsewhere”. By the way, Social Protection is, despite the massive increase in our dole queues, way over-staffed, compared to other depts.

  23. Deco

    Greece – the rich own Porsches and pay little tax.

    Surprised that members of our “tax diaspora” do not show up as residents of Greece….

  24. Isn’t it funny….G-Pap talks… EuroStoxx down 4.5 %m French CAC down 4%, FTSE down 3%

    1. Bank Holiday
    2. Close insolvent banks
    3. Delete global fraudulent debts
    4. Fix markets, shut down parasitic economy (HFT etc.) once and for all
    5. Establish new banks (Triodos Bank for example)

    • EMMETTOR

      Yes, Georg, you’ve suggested this type of solution before and it’s clearly the only approach that anyone other than those with vested interests in the insane casino would advocate. Clearly, that organisation, cadre, whatever, the EU (which is not Europe and certainly not the people of Europe) perceives that it has interests vested in the continuation of the insanity that has brought the real economy to it’s knees and will continue it’s deluded and doomed attempt to re-establish business as usual. FFS!

  25. Alf

    David, we need to look deeper. It can’t be really called a missed opportunity – it’s a self-inflicted wound. The banks are bust but the power lies in the Irish governments hands to force bondholders to the table. It always has. The Greeks situation is different. We really need to look back at why they insisted on bailing out these corporations. The guarantee was not mismangaged. It was deliberately ‘mismanaged’, it was no mistake. There are powerful people who ensured that there was no restructuring. The same powerful people will ensure that not ‘opportunity’ is taken to reduce their profit. This part was never in the hands of the EU, the mandarins in Dublin have to take the full blame here. Looking for Brussels to tell us to do the right thing is a waste of time. The real mystery is why would these people bankrupt the country and destroy the countries ability to borrow? All of this was to leave the us looking for crumbs from with a begging bowl?

  26. [...] countries within the euro zone. In Ireland, for example, David McWilliams writes that this is yet another golden opportunity missed for the Irish “renegotiate our odious bank bondholder debt”. Irish MP Stephen Donnelly agrees. [...]

    • Malcolm McClure

      Quote: ““Risk isn’t going to evaporate through these trades,” Cannon said. “The big problem with all these gross exposures is counterparty risk. When the CDS is triggered due to default, will those counterparties be standing? If everybody is buying from each other, who’s ultimately going to pay for the losses?”

      We’ve been asking this question on this blog for the past 3 years.

  27. Deco

    The Greeks will get a referendum, it appears.

    To be honest, I am surprised that Brussels has even offer Greece a choice. Usually instead of a choice Brussels offers a straightjacket, with repeated instructions to put it on.

    The markets are down everywhere. Another Euro-fix that did not work. The Chinese are biding their time to get greater trade concessions, and more power within the IMF – from which they can leverage more power in the third world.

    the EU looking for a bailout from China……=> the Beg-Baby-Beg doctrine.

    Bernanke whipping up the printing presses => print-baby-print.

    Obama and the stimulus packages, endorsed by Robert Rubin and Paul Krugman => borrow-baby-borrow….

    The West is falling down fast, and the pretence, the effort to maintain the veneer is killing any efforts to honestly solve the problem.

  28. Alf

    The original ‘guarantee’ was two years, unconditional. How many guarantee extensions have we had?, I’ve lost count. Each guarantee is just extended unconditionally, never one conditional on debt renegotiation or restructuring. Each one is just a lost ‘opportunity’, but it is obvious – they don’t want ‘golden’ opportunities.

  29. BrianMc

    Is it a Catholic thing? http://goo.gl/gzWrC

    @BriMcS

  30. redriversix

    I have emailed the Taoiseach a couple of times including this Morning.I got a polite response from his secretary.

    In relation to Greek actions this morning.01/11/11

    Firstly I contacted “The Pat Kenny show” because the Guests he had on were stating the implosion of Greece was a “definite” if they go ahead with a referendum.I said I objected to the fact that he was not having a balanced debate on the subject.

    The present EU/IMF plan will not work as you cannot solve a debt problem with more debt.

    The Greeks will say no to the referendum on this present plan for obvious reasons.
    This is either a very brave move or a very stupid one , I believe it is very brave if they have done their homework in relation to reassuring their people during this time and putting proper accounting controls in place , short term emergency budgets etc.

    Once Greece realizes that all the scaremongering being peddled by The EU/IMF/BAXSTERS is exactly that, and nothing more,they can take take their sovereignty back and do business,in drachma with China,south east Asia or Russia.Big Business is always looking for proper realistic deals with long term stability and profitability irrelevant of your previous history,Greece has excellent resources and once the people of Greece realize there Government is working for them,and them alone, the people will support whatever measures it takes to get themselves back on track within reason.

    This story could also really be a “red herring” as Greece will default anyway as the do not have , nor ever will have the funds to repay their debts like many Countries,including Ireland.

    The EU/IMF are well aware of this as they still have not clarified the details of the deal because they simply can’t.Italian bond prices rose on Friday as a result of further instability in Italy and a growing realization that Italy will be unable to pay its debts and the EU/IMF cannot bail out such a large deficit.

    I requested,with respect that An Taoiseach does not pay Anglo bond until after Greek referendum and that if we psychically have this money to “set aside”this amount to see how the EU reacts,we know it will be negative but that is really of no consequence considering how the markets seem to respond over the last several months.

    After Christmas the Taoiseach may suggest paying,say 200 million euro over 25 years as this would be done in the spirit of “detente” as no further bonds will be paid.During the lead in time to this event the Dept of Finance would have time to adjust its operating costs for 12 months and cancel any and all agreements deemed beneficial or exploitative to the state i.e Corrib Gas/shell oil Company.

    I guarantee with the growing Bank debt in France and Italy and across the world and the present crisis in Greece to name but a few, the IMF/EU would HAVE to look at their position and decide a more democratic way of solving this crisis.

    Merkel and Sarkozy are well aware of this and I would not be surprised if Greece’s actions this morning are not part of a “behind the scene’s” plan agreed with Papandreou.

    If enough Countries grow a pair of balls and take drastic actions,the EU/IMF would “drop”the Banks like a hot potato.

    Either way a Large scale War may be looming if this financial crisis is not addressed,as that is what seems to occur if we follow our history.

    Any of the above actions would be to protect the citizens of this state and to prepare us for “new beginnings”

    Remember to put yourself and your Families first

  31. redriversix

    Sorry,
    paragraph beginning with After Christmas,.. beneficial should read
    “non-beneficial and exploitative”

    Regards to all

    RR6

  32. Malcolm McClure

    Neary’s “Good man, Willy” has been arrested this morning. How many more to come?

  33. G20

    Here in Cannes and all over the Cote D’Azur at every railway station , harbour, airport, Cap Ferret ( Fitzys place ) and Eze ( Bono place) its full of armed police from all the regiments and even the rail staff are armed at all the stations.

    I have not seen Enda or Noonan.

  34. It’s Official

    Only 8 jobs lost in Monaco this year so far .

  35. dd

    The day 700 million gets paid out by Anglo, the govt announces it is 3.6 billion better off due to an accounting error and an Anglo director is questioned by the Gardai. Coincidence?

    • Malcolm McClure

      dd: Nah. It’s All Saints Day and our prayers have been answered.

    • redriversix

      Accounting errors are all very well,but I doubt if somebody could put their hand on that money.

      It is all just spin.Most of the people of this country believe this crap.Our media is starting to make Fox news look like the leading light in accurate reporting.

      If there has been a accounting error can we get some fees back from the large accountancy firms on the basis of a lack of credibility ?

    • Deco

      We need an All Scoundrels Day – in memory of politicians, media interests, and the FIRE sector vested interests…..A day when we re-read speeches by Bertie the Socialist, and Biffo the Clowen,

      when we listen to recordings of GimmeMore telling us who in the Kildare Street Circus is a “traitor”…nad we get the alternatives before us…aye….it is Frankfurt’s Way….it always was….only we did not know….but surely the US Ambassador was told the truth….the rest of can digest “for public posture”…

      and a day to interpret the future by poring over the details of the Book of Enda [Ye Odde Fyve Poynt Planne]…about the damnation unto the unholy and foolish quangoes….

      when Dan McLoughlin’s article in the Irish Times is recited especially…all night long….continually…to the chorus of “Bullishly Optimistic”….”We are bullishly optimisitic”….and an except of the glowing articles from the same paper telling us about the great Profit….Seanie Fitz….and his right hand man….the Drummer Boy….the Corporate profile….in honour of the advertising spend….

  36. Lyndon Jones

    I wish David would change the record , the government are in fact arguing for a restructure of the Anglo permissory notes but this is a long term process.
    The above article has been rehashed over and over by David .
    Today they found an accounting error of 3.6 billion which is great news but will not make a difference to our deficit , they will still make a 3.6 billion adjustment to get us to 8.6% of GDP next year.
    I am looking forward to the budget in 5 weeks time , it will be a real test of the government to get its house in order.

    • Correction, that is almost 100,000 emails

    • spread it around as quickly and as wide as you can!

      • George, if you sign these letters online, you also get policy letters by reply from oireachtas members by return eg the following crazy piece i got from Fine Gael Tom Hayes who gave me the following Trichet crap FG supplicants swallow whole from Trichet:

        > 1. Private sector involvement in Greece had a very quick knock on
        > effect into Italy and Spain and private sector involvement didn’t seem to be
        > the way forward if you were trying to encourage the markets.
        > 2. He also added that Ireland had done particularly well over the
        > summer. He mentioned the narrowing of the bond spreads and he said he felt
        > that anything to do with the burden sharing might knock to the confidence of
        > the market and the spreads would go back out again and that we might lose
        > the ground we had gained.

        I was so annoyed with the above I wrote in reply:

        As a chicken, you’ve taken the advice of the fox on how to deal with
        these matters.

        Its sad that leadership of this country has descended to such low levels.

        The level of authority you make for your argument placing it on
        Trichet’s logic of all people, given his disastrous tenure at the
        ECB, is absurd beyond belief.

        I think it would be pointless of me to try to educate your opinion to
        higher levels of discourse, so I’ll not try.

        Suffice it to say your lot are a disgrace to the men of 1916.

        By the way, I’m no Sinn Feiner and ex Fianna Fail!

  37. 2% of GDP accounting fraud – Noonan MUST resign!

    Period!

    • Sorry Georg,
      Irish politico’s don’t do resignation.
      Not even when they’re caught……I’m afraid honour disappeared from our political establishment generations ago!
      Alas gone forever unless a new system is adapted …….which I very much doubt!

      • Not only in Ireland Paul, Schaeuble’s 55.5bn did not trigger his resignation either, they are glued into their seats.

        • redriversix

          Evening Georg R.

          Incredible once again is’int it…?

          If you check my previous comets in different articles I stated to “watch out for the bank holiday weekends”

          Imagine finding 3.6 billion euro,This is laughable.

          I don’t mean to blow sunshine up your ass Georg R but,like me, you appear to be quite brilliant.!!!!!

          What do you do.?

          A Humble RR6

  38. Lucinda Creighton:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/markets-drop-on-greek-referendum-grenade-268788-Nov2011/

    She’s very annoyed the Greek people might get a say in all of this?

    Its a good time for the euro to break up while there is still good social cohesion and crime hasn’t escalated to astro levels because of austerity.

    Time for europeans to think of helping each other out with Plan B, C, D etc

    Perhaps the Ballyhea group and similar throughout Ireland may consider adopting their own local currency to help both themselves and people in need.

    This can be done by a group of people piling their resources of labour/time/services/products and agreeing on an exchange rate eg

    1 ballyhea = 1 hours labour. The group can then issue their own ballyhea notes eg 100 to all members, they can exchange and get things going.

    Mix the above in with barter/car boot sales etc

    Better system would be to end the euro in an orderly fashion. Assemble the g20 and close down financial market racketeering, allow countries in the euro to denominate their own currency against a new g20 backed currency backed by gold, as a new world reserve currency.

    Implement a new Glass Steagal strictly controlling the financial service FIRE economy. Generate the stability and growth and fairness the world needs. Bring an end to the euro deregulated schenanigans typified by banks like Anglo and currency crisis mess by fiscal mess as in Greece/Ireland.

    The alternative is the crazy Klaus Regling visit to China to have an emerging continent with 3rd world issues prop a badly developed economic model such as the euro.

    Banks should return the business of government to the people.

    Another approach is to link with sterling and PUNTNua. The problems faced are not beyond human ingenuity to surmount.

    I’m interested in creative approaches, not Creighton straight jackets:)

    • Deco

      It seems that Lucinda is entitled to an official opinion.

      But millions of Greeks are not.

      Looking forward to the next time our Europe Minister uses the words “democratic”, “democracy” and “the people”.

      She was also heavily invloved in the “Vote Yes for Jobs” sh1te as well…..

  39. piombo

    Evening all,
    Tonight as I witness political meltdown here in Italy after the Milan bourse melted in parallel to the explosion of Italian BTP spreads versus the Bund, I wonder what tomorrow will bring.
    About protests in Ireland and elsewhere, they are pretty useless as they are protrayed as fringe elements of society. Other forms of legal protest are open, but there remains the willingness to engage.
    I agree we are near an armed conflict of a pretty major scale, perhaps Iran, perhaps Venezuala. Definitely a country that is resource-rich that is for sure. The joker in the pack is of course China, who enjoys strong commercial ties with both of these countries and will have to choose sides.
    Anyway, this I believe will be the course of action to refloat the entire western financial system, just a question of the casus belli and off we go.

  40. At the age of 16 I played Beethoven’s No. 8 C-minor ( Pathetique), Ravel’s Sonatine, Schubert, Chopin, Liszt, Bach, Rachmaninov, Scriabin, take your pick, I read all the classics, I have an IQ of 191, but forgot where I put the test results, Alzheimers you know.

  41. Deco

    THe markets have decided that even a small amount of democracy is too much….and crashed.

    The time has come to get rid of democracy….it is bad for the ponzi scheme….and bad for consumer confidence….it hurts “our advertising sponsors” in the place where they feel it the worst….in their pockets….

    oh hold on…it has already been sold years ago….

  42. CitizenWhy

    When I visited my father’ house in Ireland, they had a good room inherited from my grandparents. But it was NEVER used, no matter who called. Visitors were led straight to the kitchen and to the nice comfy parlor next to it. The good room did have all the pictures of dead relatives, so it was a kind of shrine, and after awhile you were given a standing tour of the pictures. Then back to the kitchen or parlor. The good room had become a kind of fairy circle, hosting the spirits of the dead. a place for the dead, not the living.

    • Adam Byrne

      Reminds me of the horrific final scene of the 1970s movie ‘Burnt Offerings’ with Oliver Reed!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea6TWM7WMu0

      See 3:19 for the best bit.

      • CitizenWhy

        Actually it was very pleasant room but the relatives laughed about it as “the shrine.” The farmhouse was not small to begin with but an addition made the “good room” unneeded.

        But thanks for the link, I found some good movies to watch on Fuze (free, no commercials).

        • Adam Byrne

          You can watch absolutely anything here – movies, TV shows, you name it:

          http://www.1channel.ch/

          I’ve watched the first seven series of House M.D. on there this year with Hugh Laurie amazing in the lead role.

          (Sorry for the massive off-topic.)

  43. CitizenWhy

    Lesson for Europe. How Argentina has managed its 21st century depression.

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/arti

  44. flowerofthemountain

    Chancellor Angela Merkel said on Friday it was important to prevent others from seeking debt reductions after European Union leaders struck a deal with private banks to accept a nominal 50 percent cut on their Greek government debt holdings.

    “In Europe it must be prevented that others come seeking a haircut,” she said.

    There is no reason why Merkel should explain this decision to the other PIGS. Greece is, er….’special’, as in volatile, as in ‘don’t fcuk with us or we’ll bring this damn mofo down!’ .

    Clearly the Irish ‘negotiators’ have not, to date, conveyed a similar sense of menace and resolve. It’s probably to do with the fact that Greece will wage war with Turkey and completely destabilise the Balkans if they get ornery. Ireland simply doesn’t have any capacity to raise ‘geopolitical threat scenarios’ during negotiations.

    http://reut.rs/ubGYcc

    • Also to do with Pravda RTE who just had a former Greek Finance Minister Stefanos Manos take a few blasts at Papandreou.

      For balance they ensured no one took Papandreou’s side. Papandreou is obviously finding the asset stripping EMU austerity machine somewhat hard to take.

      http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-11-01/papandreou-will-press-on-with-greek-referendum-spokesman-says.html

      Don’t be fooled and expect resolve from the Irish team. With the farmers and bankers behind them they’ll lie over and do whatever tricky Trichet asks of them, to keep their Irish fingers in the till, FIRE, finance insurance real estate paper economy, afloat.

      • Deco

        Pravda RTE are ar5€ licking the troika again, trying to prove what a useful collie they are in herding the Irish sheeple…..

        If you observe Pravda news, you will see that is all about being nice to the Troika, and the bondholders, and Brussels.

        Pravda/RTE are already acting as if the Irish people are not sovereign, and as if the Irish people should not be allowed to think of sovereignty.

        The name of the game is institutional survival.

        Sell RTE/Pravda for the sake of better intellectual freedom, for the people. And the internet should not be levied with charges to pay for such pro-bondholder propaganda.

        We are paying for the lies that are deceiving us.

        • Colin

          The trouble is that Pravda is successful at what it does, and it knows this. Too many Irish people cannot think for themselves. Just look at how many people think that David is responsible for the Bank Guarantee. They incorrectly believe this because of Pravda’s propaganda. Remember when Gormless was interviewed about that fateful night, when he was in bed and got the call at 3am. Gormless asked “are we doing the David McWilliams solution”? When he relayed this story, not one Pravda journalist or any other hack stopped to ask him when did the government hire McWilliams, and how much did they pay for David’s advice. No. It suited all insiders including RTE Pravda’s hacks to pin this decision on David, even though as he says himself he was never inside the DoF.

          I mean, with this logic, FF would have made decisions on prisons based on pubchat between prison officers, and if that policy results in prisons going pear shaped, they blame the prison officers for that.

          • Deco

            Gormless did not threaten to pull out of government over the bank guarantee.

            In fact Dan Boyle threatened that the GP would pull out if the banks were not strapped to the Irish state – with his historic and stupid remark – in the midst of the job losses in Waterford Crystal and Dell in Limerick ….”We have to save the banks before we save the factories”.

            We had the Dan Boyle doctrine – ‘ Banks first, everybody else last’.

            Typical Gormless deception. The GP were instrumental in getting us into this mess. They engaged in endless semantics while the FF officer class lied to everybody, and got sozzled every second day of the week.

          • breltub

            Hi Deco,
            I remember that day Boyle was outing himself as a 100% pure wa*ker, heard him live on the radio while sitting in traffic as I hadn’t really heard him before. Couldn’t believe what I was hearing, it was like listening to the spoilt brat rich kid in school telling you why it was unfair he had to wait for the cleaners to get leaves out of his outdoor heated pool when he wanted to swim!

            Completely removed from reality, but so it the whole f*king establishment!

      • EMMETTOR

        RTE, f*cking amateur hour. I applied for a job there years ago and one question on the application form was “Do you have any relatives in RTE?” They are so shit-scared that the grovelment might mess with their licence fee that they will say absolutely anything they’re told. Meanwhile, among the headlines moving across the bottom of the BBC News channel last night was the phrase “Why is Greece so dependent on foreign aid?”. It only appeared once but I did see it. Now Sky have taken Press TV off their platform, the first shot in the war against Iran. The media is the method of control.

  45. pauline

    In fairness to David Williams there is only so many ways you can say default… and this has been his message all along. It’s unsustainable so we need to do something. The government has sat there through it all not rocking the boat, so far we have seen no pay back for this. It’s likely never to come. It’s not David Williams who needs to stop being Enya it’s our government..

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