October 27, 2011

We're being sold out for cheap economic flattery

Posted in Irish Independent · 220 comments ·

When you walk up one of Ireland’s deserted main streets, it is difficult to reconcile the talk of Ireland doing well and being the model for other European countries to follow with the reality of living here. The reality here is that retail sales have collapsed and are not recovering. Anyone dependent on the domestic economy is just about surviving. No credit is being made available to anyone and unemployment is devastatingly high, while emigration continues apace.

That is what is going on in the “Real Ireland”.

Contrast this with the “Invented Ireland”. In the Invented Ireland, we are, supposedly, showing the rest of Europe the way out. We are the poster boys for austerity and the one indicator that the supporters of Invented Ireland obsess about is the bond yield on Irish government debt, which has fallen from 14pc to 8pc in recent months. This is significant but as we are not active in the market because we have been locked out of it, there is not that much value in this figure. However, in the world of Invented Ireland, the economy has “turned the corner”, where the skies are blue and Ireland is the star pupil of the EU. This is despite having the second highest level of unemployment in Europe — but in Invented Ireland unemployment doesn’t matter as long as the figure for GDP is increasing.

The figure for GDP is rising because the contribution to the economy from multinationals is rising as exports from the same multinationals rise. It is worth noting that multinationals — while accounting for over 90pc of Irish exports — employ less than 7pc of the Irish workforce. This is why the increases in GDP don’t filter down, because there is no way for it to filter down in any meaningful way.

Do you remember the 1980s? How did it feel? Did it feel like a decade when the economy as measured by official statistics grew in every year bar one? This is true. In the 1980s, GDP — the preferred figure of Invented Ireland — only fell in one year yet unemployment averaged 16pc plus and 450,000 people emigrated.

Today, we see the same pattern. The disconnect between the Real Ireland of people’s mortgages, negative equity, dole queues and empty shops on main streets and the Invented Ireland of the selective economic statistics, is growing by the day.

For example, talk to anyone in the main banks and they will tell you that arrears are building and that most people on “interest only” mortgages will be coming off those interest only mortgages this year and next. This is because most of those products were five- to seven-year products and as a consequence the first time buyers of the top of the boom will have to go on interest and capital deals from next year. A significant proportion of these people will not be able to afford these new higher mortgages. This will prompt a second wave of mortgage defaults.

Armed with these observations about the Real Ireland, let’s head to Brussels and today’s “save the euro” negotiations.

But before we do, let’s understand that the only way Real Ireland will recover is if its debt burden is reduced. There are two ways of doing this. We can seek to reduce it slowly or quickly.

The slow way is the government’s chosen way. This means that ordinary people pay off all this mortgage debt — for houses that will never be worth what they paid for them — over the next 20 years.

The more they pay out of their take home, after tax wages, the less money they will have to spend in shops and the more depressed retails sales and domestic demand will be. This is a recipe for permanently higher unemployment. So we can go down this “deleveraging” path, which is one of profound economic stagnation.

The other way is to look for a “me too” deal and ask for the same treatment as Greece.

Today Greece is likely to get 60pc of its debt written off. The world realises that Greece needs massive debt forgiveness to recover. It simply can’t shoulder this debt on its own. Sure there will be lots of shouting and roaring, but ultimately Greece will end up with a much lighter debt burden next week than it has this week.

The big fear in Europe is that we would ask for the same type of deal. And why wouldn’t we? After all, we are locked out of the market and we are encumbered with huge bank debts which will take years to pay off, all incurred in order to prevent contagious bank defaults across Europe two years ago. In addition, every cent we pay for the likes of Anglo, AIB or Nationwide, the less we will have to spend on the Real Ireland economy and the longer the stagnation will be.

There is a direct connection between the debt deals in Europe today and Ireland’s empty shops and high unemployment. Imagine if we had a 60pc write down on our debts like the Greeks. Our total national debt is €170bn. So the figure would be €102bn written off. So imagine a scenario where we decide to be good boys and suggest that although we are “entitled” to such a deal based on equal treatment for all the eurozone’s members, we would only aim to have all the rogue banks’ debts cancelled. The figure on debt cancellation would be in the region of €50bn. This would be just over 32pc of GDP. Imagine how much breathing space this would give us? And we wouldn’t even be asking for equal treatment with the Greeks.

But France and Germany are particularly keen to break this link and to ensure that Greece is a special case because French and German banks are on the hook here to Irish banks. This is why President Sarkozy has gone on a smarmy charm offensive.

Last Sunday, ahead of the eurozone negotiations, Sarkozy, who had tried to kick us when we were down a year or so ago, adopted the new approach of Gallic Flatterer, when he publicly said Ireland was the model economy all of Europe’s other weaker economies should follow. How pathetic. And do you know what? We lapped it up.

We are being killed by flattery and rather than taking this enormous opportunity to clean up our balance sheet, we are succumbing to cheap flattery because we are insecure.

The government tells us that they are paying all the bank debts in order to get back into the bond market, but anyone who knows anything about the bond market will know that we would get back into the bond market quicker with a better balance sheet. And debt write-offs make the balance sheet stronger — that’s the point of the exercise.

But yet again the lack of real self-confidence and an absence of logical analysis means that we will not use the crisis to our own ends.

Today is a huge opportunity but it will be forsaken. This reinforces the perception that in this economic crisis, when it comes to dealing with Europe, national insecurity means that the Irish establishment never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

  1. hughsheehy

    David Mc uses the phrase “succumbing to cheap flattery” and it’s very apt.

    Unfortunately, while we may be succumbing to cheap European flattery this time, Ireland has a history of succumbing to any old cheap line sold by TDs and parties.

    As any conman or Lothario knows (and excuse the crudity) you have to be charming and seductive before you get to screw your victim. We’re just getting screwed again. Charlie did it, Bertie did it, Labour does it all the time, Sinn Fein is getting more skilled every day, and the current govt have been doing it since before they became the govt.

    Anyone planning to screw Ireland and the Irish knows what to do and how to do it because they can see so many examples of the approach working very well.

    We’re the only ones that can change it.

    • CitizenWhy

      Ireland loved the cheap flattery of the Obama visit. It was the US, and the Obama administration, that has been pushing the doctrine that governments must bail out privately owned banks no matter what the cost to the citizenry.

      • Deco

        The Geithner doctrine. The Gordon Brown doctrine. The Sarkozy doctrine.

        Bail out the rich, with the toil of the not so rich.
        The new solidarity.
        Marxism for multi-billionaires.

        All the satelites of the Washington Pact must do as instructed.

    • DB4545

      We need to move away from this insane desire to be “liked” in Europe. I can’t afford, don’t need or want to be “liked” for paying the bills of reckless private bankers or anyone else for that matter. Private bankers had no intention of sharing any potential gains with me or any other Irish Citizen when they took the risks with private capital. We need to ditch our so called political “elites” and this insane strategy and fast. We have elected people who are negotiating our future and who are incapable of leveraging a sensible deal with the key players in Europe. They’re politicians and like to be “liked” as well. We need a Michael O Leary or someone of a similar calibre to do the horsetrading. The man had Boeing and Airbus cutting each other’s throats when he was buying planes. He was’nt interested in being liked, he just wanted to cut a good deal for his shareholders and make money. It’s called Capitalism. The Greeks obviously know how to do brinkmanship. The deal? We’ll give you a good haircut and give you a realistic percentage of your original investment. Alternatively we’ll leave the euro and you can fight for 100% of your capital in the “New Irish Punt”. “Now do you want to see check or take your chances?”. Did’nt think so. It ain’t rocket science.

      • Deco

        Do we have enough self-respect to get free of the stupid grovelling inferiority complex feature that is “the need to be liked” ?

        I sense that we are continually being force-fed a routine, by those in society to prevent us from becomming free of it – so that they continue to dictate to us. The illusion of being free, is great for making you an even bigger slave.

        Ask the Irish media – it is their primary function – the reason why “our advertising sponsors” needs them. To make sure that we spend money we have not got, on stuff we do not need – so that we feel good about the thought that “we are liked”.

        A pyschological-cultural prison.

    • Man in WW

      All this testosterone is a joy to behold! Not. While David may be right in saying we could get away with not paying the bankers’ and the countries’ debts back, I’m not so sure that brinkmanship is a good idea for us right now.

      Things are not far off what sent Europe to War in the 1930s. Where the Weimar Republic saw wheelbarrows of cash needed to pay for food, now our money’s still worth something, but we just don’t have enough of it.

      Everyone on this page sees this as being about our elites succumbing to French flattery, but why does everyone assume that this is actually about us? That’s just vain and delusional.

      In reality, the gift of a write-off to the Greeks will have to be at least partly borne by the taxpayer in France and Germany. And though their financial institutions were complicit in the bubble, their working man certainly doesn’t deserve to be burdened with the costs. And these were countries who didn’t party like the Irish. And by party, I mean paying our civil service, professions, tradesmen and many, many others more than their peers in Europe. And, in the course of that becoming more obese, and diabetic, and asthmatic than our peers. And ignorant – to the extent that Irish tourists became known throughout Europe’s hotspots for drink, drugs and boorishness. And what of our GNP that went on cocaine – allowing our criminal class to ascend to the big league? Don’t think the rest of Europe didn’t notice. And should they still love us unconditionally?

      So le petit General and die neu-Eiserne-Lady are going to have to impose hardship on their taxpayers. Who won’t be thrilled. Flattering Ireland? It’s all to do with making a case to the taxpayer in France and Germany. Because they deserve to be hit with the bill even less than us. And are therefore more likely to refuse to pay. And where would that leave us?
      So if Ireland is being unwillingly forced into the role of teacher’s pet, it’s for a much bigger game.

      Remember, in Central Europe, social upheaval has traditionally led to war. Big War. And we, despite all the machismo on show here, would be screwed.

      Like it or not, there has to be a case for the defence when populist politicians in France (Le Pen Jnr et al) and Germany argue that their taxpayer is being screwed by Ireland, Greece, other PIGS and Italy. Parading a hair-shirted-but-breathing Ireland around Europe is not a great case for the defence, but it has to be tried. If we help, in any small way, to avoid a War, that’s a result. Then, by all means, complain away, and aggressively renegotiate, but not this year, and probably not next.

  2. CitizenWhy

    According to the classic microeconomic model in developmental economics, there are four factors required for growth and Labor (wages) is the most important one. As wages increase, tax revenue increases and Government (another of the 4 factors) can then invest more in Infrastructure and in Technology (any increase in knowledge and skills, including free or affordable schooling and training programs as well as hi-tech).

    But under Financial Capitalism, more Capital (another factor – cash, assets, ownership, infrastructure) accrue to the wealthy ownership class while wages diminish. At the same time Government may be starved of revenue due to tax breaks given to the wealthy in the hope that they will invest in business growth and the jobs that follow. But they do not invest, they use the extra money for more financial speculation.

    Under austerity the distorted effects of Financial Capitalism are increased.

    RThat’s the US today. That’s Europe today.

  3. Deco

    Stock market, Up.
    After-tax incomes of those who toil, Down.

    The EU thinks the problem is solved.
    ShowBama “welcomes” the deal….
    The media is buzzing positively.
    Not a sceptic to be seen beside a microphone.

    Be wise to what is going on.
    The Sheeple always get stuck with the bill….

    • molly66

      Hi I am self employed turned over in October 2009. 10500 euros October 2010 6500 euros. October 2011 turn over 2400 euros ,I work in the services sector so David the nail is hit on the head,I have not taken a wage in 2011 living of savings trying to keep afloat while this government keeps flooding my sinking boat with wave after wave of water.this government does not live in my world,but who’s world do they live in.

      • I read your story before molly66 and think it is sad.
        It is enough to discourage people from taking a risk and becoming legally self employed.

        • molly66

          You would need your head xrayed to be self employed now and thats a one man band trying to employ people in this state is madness ,people are not spending money whether they have it or not,if I could get the dole tomorrow I would ,I have a c2 card all my tax is up to date I am sick of all the waste ,the red tape, the people on big wages big pensions the legal big wigs,this country is run by fools .

          • 500,000 unemployed and no incentive at all for people to become self employed. It’s incredible that people who at least try but fail are penalised if they ever need to claim dole.

      • Deco

        Drop commercial rates. They are killing business. The councils are bloated with wasters and waste anyway.

        How many planning offices have been rationalized as a result of the complete fall-off in construction ?

        Have any been rationalized ?

        And we have two many schemes in local authorities that amount to free publicity stunts for local councillors. A complete waste of money, and all dedicated to manufacturing a result in the ballot box. Absolute disgrace.

  4. Deco

    When you walk up one of Ireland’s deserted main streets, it is difficult to reconcile the talk of Ireland doing well and being the model for other European countries to follow with the reality of living here}

    How about Dun Laoghaire ? Once the richest town in Ireland. Maybe it still is ? Closed up and deserted. But DLR Co. Co. is a prosperous institution. Your local quango killing your local economy. This is the real retail economy in Ireland.

    How about Limerick City ? Angela’s Ashes. For decades going nowhere. And going nowhere, again. Pride does not butter the bread. Pragmatism does.

    Do the half a million on the dole know that we are the poster child of Brussels ??

    • Colin

      Both Limerick and Waterford have drawn the short straw down through the years, when it comes to the National Cake being sliced up. At least Limerick belatedly won a University, poor auld Waterford is just laid waste. See how Cork people got very upset about how Thomand Park was chosen over Musgrave Park to become Munster Rugby HQ. And then you have Galway constantly attempting to usurp Limerick in the National Hierarchy, now HSE West takes in Limerick and the HQ is in the smaller city – Galway, so Galway gets more jobs for pen pushers. Why is Galway Airport in existence, less than 1 hr from Shannon? More jobs for the boys in Galway.

      And Limerick’s biggest enemy is the Limerick people themselves – who will ask a tourist visiting Limerick what made them decide to visit such a place? A majestic river, historic castle, 800yr old cathedral, city walls from the siege, mountains in the backdrop, best prices for hotels and restaurants and pubs in Ireland, good infrastructure and salt of the earth people, and even an astrologer who predicts moon wobbles.

      • Colin you are very lucky. Not all counties have their own astrologer who predicts moon wobbles!

      • Deco

        Colin – the unfortunate thing about Ireland, that a lot of the resident wealth in any particular urban is reliant on decisions made concerning the location of parts of the state system, or decision made under the influence of the IDA.

        Nothing against Cork. Cork had a long recession after Industrial scale Cork collapsed in the 1980s. And Cork was shafted for a long while afterwards.

        Limerick, just needs to come up with a plan that is completely independent of the state, and politicians at all levels. To be an incompetence free zone. That would be first for Ireland. A trading zone that is free of incompetent political decision making.

        • Colin


          Do you remember a fella from the Waterford area who used to post here, he went by the letter ‘b’. He stopped posting here about 2 years ago, but he was prolific with great opinions and sharing little known facts. I think he stopped posting because he felt bullied by some posters here, which is a great pity (if you’re lurking b, please come back). I think he had a family logistics business, importing and exporting from Waterford port. He claimed he tried to offer Iarnroid Eireann lots of business if they re-opened disused railways in the region, and he’d have less lorries congesting roads and lower fuel costs. Apparently IE told him they didn’t want his business, and that freight lines would be very problematic for them to provide to the likes of him. Only in Ireland could this happen.

          • Deco

            YEs. I remember a poster making the point that he went to Iarnroid Eireann concerning the underutilization of rail transport in Ireland, specifically the south east. And I remember he said that he had a proposal for the to use more rail transport. At the time we had a FF/GP government and they were cutting back various state schemes – but not anything relating to “emmissions”. In any case IE were disinterested.

            Basically, IE institutional laziness was the biggest hindrance.

            I remember posting about the lack of a proper rail freight organization or methodology for the whole country. Now this was when we had government ministers who were all into this green thing – both FF and GP. And there was probably more money back then.

            In any case the institutional culture of IE and other state organizations meant that a good idea was deliberately missed.

            The strange thing is that the Irish institutional state has this approach well rehearsed.

            They always miss an opportunity. And then we have the other side of this, the deliberate creation of a self-fulfilling institutional agenda – to prevent an opportunity, by creating a crisis that kills the opportunity….

  5. Lyndon Jones

    This is Davids old default argument again , he has been going on about this forever .
    The slow way is the right way , the Greek way is the wrong way , the Greeks will be in austerity mode for the next decade and NOBODY will ever lend them money again.
    The EU/IMF/ECB not to mention Labour / fine Gael / FF and most commentators argue for the slow way . Private debt in Ireland is as much of a problem as Sovereign and an amount of deleveraging will have to happen . If it takes 20 years to clear the debt then this is a better way ….the slow way.
    It is estimated that Ireland will be able to return to the bond markets in 2013 according to the IMF. By that stage our deficit will be about 6% of GDP and in 2015 our deficit will be 3% of GDP.
    In 2015 all we will need to borrow is about 5 billion, but truthfully we will have to borrow to replace bonds due as well.
    Ireland is a small country on the perifery of Europe we dont matter that much , The French and Germans dispise us for our irresponsibilty , I even dispise Irish people in general for being useless with money . I see this in my family and friends who ask me for a dig out , my answer is always the same ” you partied now you pay so get lost”

    • re “It is estimated that Ireland will be able to return to the bond markets in 2013 according to the IMF. By that stage our deficit will be about 6% of GDP and in 2015 our deficit will be 3% of GDP.
      In 2015 all we will need to borrow is about 5 billion ”

      You need to guard yourself against propaganda like that.

    • datcat

      Sounds like you have a bit of cash there Lyndon if your friends are asking you for some. People like you then can easily afford the “slow way”. I didn’t party at all and I never ask for dig outs but then why am I being made pay, why should my children pay, why are the next generation being made pay, the new batch of graduates, the people on the margins. F**k the slow way I want the Iceland way.

    • Deco

      After the default, Greece will be solvent, because then Greeks will start to put their own money, which they are not returning to foreigners back into their own banking system.

      And Greece is probably better off if the Greek politicians have to stop borrowing. Greek democracy would be healthier, as it would stop being about the political parties promising goodies in returns for votes. It might result in a better quality of politicians.

      Thankfully, Brussels (itself highly corrupt at this stage), is there to prevent such a “travesty” occurring.

    • redriversix

      Always remember those on the way up Lyndon , as you meet the same people on the way down…..

      I am truly honoured to meet a person like yourself who has never made a mistake..what humanity

    • Zaphod

      A change of username is required for you Lyndon, I suggest “sheep with no friends”, anyone got a better one?

    • gizzy

      Do you have many friends

  6. This is exactly same article as previous article under a different title which was followed by 29 comments none of which appear above?

    Do the posters of those previous 29 comments have to repost here?

  7. But the politicians dont’ care. They are part of the ‘entitled’ class of people who know that whatever happens they will get huge incomes and pensions because they are ‘entitled’ to it. My neighbours an army guy and a teacher go off at Easter, school breaks and summer to their different holiday homes abroad. Good guaranteed salaries and pensions — they are ‘entitled’ to them!
    If I had my time again I’d be a civil servant!!!

    • Colin

      I bet you it was your neighbour’s missus who famously rang into Liveline back in 2008 to tell Joe how difficult it was to maintain a holiday home in Croatia on a teacher’s salary.

  8. wills

    Following through on the themes of the article.

    The fact that EU now green-lighted a writedown of debt on Greece bondholders means it can be done. It can take place.

    Bondholders can be denied their demands for monies NOT owed to them by taxpayers. So it proves taxpayers been forced to bail out banks and bondholders is a racket of some sort.

    A racket using a monetary pipeline through which trash into treasure flows into the pockets of the few at the top of the pyramid. The networks work to maintain the machinery as it works its money alchemical magic and provided free money in the trillions.

    Look at the bailout fund – 1 trillion announce. This is 1 trillion overnight made real. This is not as David writes above a fiction. The EU have announced a trillion euro for to shore up the banking system which flooded countries in debt turning economies into ponzi racket economies. Resulting in millions of citizens in its path having to spend most of their income on rent or absurd mortgages as the article above states so killing stone dead consumer spending.

    ANd the media continue with the banks oh the poor banks we must stuff the banks with ready cash. The very same private companies that ran the economies of the countries into bubbles causing chaos, then, going bust from it and passing the leftover debt slops onto the bedraggled taxpayers who were left stranded by their politicians.

    The case is proven. If you want free money it is there.

    OWn a bank and you win on the upside and you win on the downside. All one has to do is to ensure the people don’t know where money comes from.

  9. piombo

    Good evening all,
    David’s article reminds me of John the Baptist in the desert! As usual he has the right message, but as said before, the patient needs a prognosis as well as a diagnosis.
    Why not a law-abiding charter outlining the single steps each person can employ to force the government, in primis, and then their local TD, to assure change. Depending upon circumstances, these steps could range from aggrieved mortgage-holders now in negative equity forming a single class action law suit against banks and real estate agents for professional misrepresentation. This remedy exists both in common and statute law since 1948.
    The secret lies in a collective legal action as single actions have failed thus far due to the High Court opting for the Tort route rather than others.
    Another perfectly legal option for individual traders (such as shop-keepers) and/or businesses to challenge the current state of affairs is to apply to the CommerciaL Court to have their individual insolvencies organised into collective negotiations with each particular bank and/or the Revenue Commissioners.

    Both of these examples need a focal point around which to organise and to sustain momentum. A citizens charter supported by someone of David’s intellectual and (from what I gleaned of his interview with Mike Murphy) moral stature, would give people the faith in themselves to lawfully demand the righting of the robbing of our generation.

    • tubdoc

      Bravo! Finally some kind of solution. Enough of the burning bush David. Time to get off the fence and take a leading role in a movement for change. The commentary has been inciteful for the last few years but we need action. It’s not going to come from the government, it’s time for the people to rise up. This debt is odious, we now have precedent. Let’s use it!

    • TJM

      Well put Piombo. I was wondering today would it be possible to take a legal challange to the European court to force the French & German Taxpayer’s to bail out there own banks as the Irish taxpayer was forced to do in 2008. Yesterdays deal puts the rest of european taxpayers on the hook for French ad German bank failure.

  10. flowerofthemountain

    Ireland shall remain annexed, unless and until the newly indentured citizens of Real Ireland repay their outstanding credit/debt. That’s their own personal, family and MSE debts and also, of course: they will pay back the debts of Invented Ireland’s Overlords as well via the SPV that is NAMAland!

    That’s what serfs are for, serf-ice industries, serf-ice with a smile: have a nice day!

    Immigration? So what: export the excess production factors, human resources alongside the cattle. They are redundant/outsourced/surplus to requirements. Whatever. As it ever was.
    They’ll soon return if and when the Overlords need them to ‘pull on the green jersey’ in any future upswing after this Collapse.

    Ireland is not the poster child of the EU. Estonia is.

    ‘Estonia Lives the European Dream’

    Compare and contrast Estonia and Iceland. Ireland is following Estonia, not Iceland. Iceland is an independent country as of today. Tomorrow? Who knows:

    ‘multinationals – while accounting for over 90pc of Irish exports – employ less than 7pc of the Irish workforce.’

    Who does the country belong to anyway: the serf-’citizens’ – or the Overlords of International Capital?

    GDP is a measure of the ‘creative destruction’ (and production) of goods and services from the collapsing pyramid-pradigm of Industrial Civilization. This ponzi-pyramid is funded by the Capital of The Overlords. Aren’t the serfs content with the crumbs from their Masters’ tables? Well they were, but now the Masters’ need those crumbs back. The 1% require the 99% to sacrifice more..

    ‘Occupy Dame Street’ hasn’t really caught on, has it?

  11. Dorothy Jones

    Posts were deleted; would have asked in person just now if I had known that…..

  12. Malcolm McClure

    I replied to the earlier unparagraphed version that has been overtaken by this one. Strangely, David’s explanation of the change seems to have been appended to the wrong version; although this one is accredited to today’s Indo, the earlier one isn’t. What gives? It makes sense that he waited for Thursday to comment on the Euro- summit but still no listing of this article on Indo web-pages? Other Opinion pages seem to be up-to-date. Why not DMcW’s? Are Indo editors slap-dash or just punch-drunk?

    Apologies for repetition:
    David writes:”The big fear in Europe is that we would ask for (50% haircut). And why wouldn’t we? After all, we are locked out of the market and we are encumbered with huge bank debts that will take years to pay off, all incurred in order prevent contagious bank defaults across Europe two years ago.”

    David seems to vacillate between “it’s not fair .” and “Let’s stick it to them.”

    Existentialists know that life is not fair. To succeed in getting concessions from the powerful, one always prepares for brinkmanship and never expects concessions on the basis of fairness. This is bread and butter for Union leaders and accounts for Papandreou’s success in gaining much of what he wanted for Greece.

  13. Klaus Regling! – Rings a bell? -

    That’s right, he ‘was the enquiry’ into Irish banking matters, conveniently delivered from Germany to Ireland to spearhead the investigations, investigations that were never conducted!

    He heads up the EFSF now and is on his cap in hand tour to Asia now.

    Gimmi a break!

  14. straboe1

    Germany will resist any attempt by Ireland to get similar treatment to Greece. If we did get it we might become too independent and vote no to some new treaty aimed at getting us further into a United states of Europe. It can be easily seen that Germany is now making all the decisions with regard to the EU. As it is said “he who pays the piper calls the tune”, and by god, it is not only the Irish that are dancing to that tune, the rest of Europe is dancing to it as well. Imagine what would happen if Europe was united both politically and economically. Ireland as a small nation on the edge of Europe would end up being treated as we were under the British. Be careful!

    • Germany made sure that we comply with their wishes when Klaus Regling came here…the red carpet was rolled out by Lenihan.

      Does anybody really think he was here to investigate banking matters on behalf of Ireland? NOPE!

      Just do a search and look for the history in DOF and especially the result.

      • I wrote about Regling and this ridiculous stunt of an investigation on this blog here at least 3 times in the past. Sometimes it is like speaking to a rubber wall. LOL

      • I could have written that final report myself, without ever setting a foot onto irish soil, let alone into the vaults of DOF, Anglo and so on.

        • That report was a laugh. I could’ve written one with 10 of those people questioners from the final Frontline; facing 10 of the leading developer borrowers; 3 hours

          Who gave you the money, how did you get it, what did you do with it?

          Now take the Anglo people separately and follow the trail of the loan using the information from the developers as a starter.

          You would have a decent picture inside 3 hours if this was used to follow the money trail decision making process in Anglo.Simples.

          With a judicial inquiry similar to the work done on the American banks through a congress standing committee with 15 investigators, 3 months should give you enough info to fill 1000pg report.

    • CitizenWhy

      Ireland may have been neutral in WWII but it ended up losing the war to the Germans anyway. Armed occupation is so crude, today occupation can be nicely accomplished through the banking system and the media, with the jhelp of just a few collaborators.

  15. Here’s deleted posts, also Dorothy’s post:

    29 Comments. Most recent comments first.
    David McWilliams says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I reposted this because the last one didn’t have enough spaces between paras.


    Dorothy Jones says:
    October 27, 2011 at 5:25 pm
    -What are the consequences for Ireland resultant from this engineered default by Greece? [if the requisite 50-60% write-down were demanded by IE]

    [Note: International Swaps and Derivatives Association says this morning: 'Based on what we know it appears from preliminary news reports that the bond restructuring is voluntary and not binding on all bondholders. As such, it does not appear to be likely that the restructuring will trigger payments under existing CDS contracts. In addition, it is important to note that the restructuring proposal is not yet at the stage at which the ISDA Determinations Committee would be likely to accept a request to determine whether a credit event has occurred.'] hmmm…

    - The pending French downgrade renders the concept of a bolstered EFSF untenable, yet this is this tabled as a solution,….why?

    - Germany is ‘leading’ the process, yet their Bank exposure as thus far known, is significant. Criticism of approach within the German press is more scathing than in any other country. What is preventing IE taking advantage of its strong negotiating position? Hunting / Shooting season begins on Mon….

    wills says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:21 pm
    Coupla points continuing the articles theme and on news today.

    First, the Trillion Euro bazooka.

    Coming out of thin air because the troika have said so. They will be leveraging 5 times a set amount.

    Plus, the Greek bondholders 50% debt writedown.

    Taken 3 years to decide to DO this?!

    If one follows the remorseless logic of this one concludes that if they are doing it now they could’ve done it 3 years ago. They didn’t though, do it three years ago. My point is is that there has been a slow progressing narrative building the citizenry of EU toward these realities taking place.

    If the Troika informed the people of Europe 3 years ago they where going to print run one trillion Euro to shore up the scale of debts the private banks in Europe ran up in their drunken sailor credit bubble ponzi scam, riots and rebellion on the streets would’ve rapidly followed. This way the Insider running the EU and the banking industry get what they want and with minimal fuss.

    This is what we are all face with. The levers of power and finance and policy makers are running an economy based on free money flowing to a small Insider set of the chosen few. The way all of this crisis is playing out proves that the economic system is rigged and operated according to a value system of Insiders and outsiders and access to monetary machinery rigged and wired to turn tash into treasure on the backs of the outsiders staying blissfully ignorant regarding how money comes into existence and whose pockets the money flows into along the daisy chain.

    The system functions along an axis of construction-destruction of wealth and finance and ethics.

    wills says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:23 pm
    *…trash into treasure.*

    Georg R. Baumann says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:34 pm
    Sure there will be lots of shouting and roaring, but ultimately Greece will end up with a much lighter debt burden next week than it has this week.

    Now THAT remains to be seen and no one will be able to comment on the de facto debts that are written off until next year, January the earliest.

    It is still considered voluntary, and every single bank has a right to say, sorry but no can do!

    We are being killed by flattery and rather than taking this enormous opportunity to clean up our balance sheet, we are succumbing to cheap flattery because we are insecure.

    I disagree strongly here, IMHO the picture you paint is a misrepresentation of reality. Did you hear Leo ‘Wryneck’ Vradkar last night? This is the reality David, and not a picture of an insecure and flattered Irish government. On the contrary, they are secure in their fatalistic EPP ideology, and behind closed doors more than likely promises are made to have Ireland prostitute itself as the Troika success story, what you call invented Ireland, I call scripted reality, and we are d’accord on this aspect.

    No David, they are not insecure, they are corrupted, Wryneck-Leo cheered the sale of Anglo Irish Bank assets, and claimed that the Tax payer would suffer no losses November 2nd, as Anglo would pay the bondholder themselves.

    What a blatant and impertinent misrepresentation!

    - Vradkar deliberately hides facts from the public and presents a distorted view on purpose, this is as dishonest as can be, and he knows damn well that he is lying through his teeth!

    a) no law forces us to pay out subbies or senior unsecured. As per denifitionem, if a bank fails, these bondholders are supposed to get… NADA, ZILCH, not a penny! That is why they are called subbie and/or unsecured.

    b) The money from the asset sale in Anglo Irish Bank was stolen from the taxpayer to begin with, so the recovering of money through this sale belongs to the Taxpayer and should be at his disposal to decide whether he wants to use it for hospitals, paying home helps a more decent wage, and nurses, or shelter the homeless and feed the poor, or stimulate retail sales.

    To take this money and pay back bondholders is elitist theft, sanctioned by people like Vradkar, Noonan, Kenny and his gang. One-fucking-billion USD!

    No David, this is no sign of insecurity, it is a clear sign of elitist insider deals, it is treason on the people, it was treason 2 years ago, and still is treason today

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:56 pm
    Real Ireland. Invented Ireland. Love the terms. They capture the essence of the PR stunt, from the Ponzi-scheme advocates.

    Perfect description.

    Real Ireland. The daily grind.

    Suicide. Unemployment. Debt. Mortgage reschedules. The Repo man. The local authorities and their extortion rackets putting small businesses out of existence. The TV “licence” and the Montrose Millions. Mick Wallace-the TD with dodgy finances in the Dail-will he be impeached.

    “Invented” Ireland. A creation of fiction.

    The Business Supplement to the Irish Times. The Sunday Independent “lifestyle” section, with a special on the interiors of the well to do. Eamon Gilmore telling us he is behind the interest rate cut, that comes as a result of Europe having to drop the rate for Greece, when the Greeks refuse to pay. The Two Pillar Bank strategy. Brian Hayes, telling us six months ago that the property market has reached “the bottom of the bottom”. (It is still going down). NAMA. Lenihan assuming that emigration would help the state’s finances (the state is more important than the people, in case you have not noticed, and the establishment are the priority of the state). Kenny telling us “Is Feidir Linn”.

    For your survival, you have to grasp what is going on.

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:44 pm
    According to Noonan, we’re not broke, we shouldn’t get a writedown of Anglo debt, as we’ve got loans from Europe to pay it back at 3% ???

    Europe is on the cusp of a boom, Enda Kenny and Noonan are too proud and shy to ask for a reduction in their debt eg Anglo unguaranteed debt……

    The term ‘shysters’ comes to mind

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 4:27 pm
    The same Baldy Noonan — announced that we should take the positive aspect in, when Belgium, Spain and others were dropped two notches, and that our rating had not dropped.

    We were still rated below the countries being dropped notches — and they were able to buy cheaper than us….

    Don’t worry — he does not have any positions of responsibility….does he ? Oh No !!!!

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:59 pm
    The headline captures the essence of a lot of the nonsense that the establishment in this country thinks.

    Not just today — but for decades.

    Just look at the debacle in Rossport. The biggest problem faced, was how to prevent authority being made look bad.

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:06 pm
    But France and Germany are particularly keen to break this link and to ensure that Greece is a special case because French and German banks are on the hook here to Irish banks. This is why President Sarkozy has gone on a smarmy charm offensive.

    Yes. They are in an exercise of ensuring the get their gambled bets back.

    And there is the issue of “pretext”.

    Spain’s statistics are baffling to me. The unemployment rate is the real measure of Spain’s economic collapse. The commentary of the Spanish politicians and bankers is worthless. But the lobbyists behind Berlin, Paris and Brussels, want to get “proof of concept” out of Ireland — so that they can acheive a confidence trick.

    I do not think that the Spanish ediface will last another six months. And besides, if there is a change of government, there will be every incentive for a release of more honest statistics, when the changeover occurs, like has happened in Ireland and in the UK in the last 18 months — when the new regime suddenly found out that things were actually much worse than they were being told….

    goldbug says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:11 pm




    “A second stage should be envisaged for a country that persistently fails to meet its programme targets. Under this second stage, euro area authorities would gain a much deeper and more authoritative role in the formulation of that country’s economic policies. This would move us away from the present concept where all decisions remain in the hands of the country concerned. Instead, it would be not only possible, but in some cases compulsory, for the European authorities to take direct decisions.”



    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:30 pm
    That’s very odd, couple of comments seem to have been deleted from the blog including this one from me at that was visible at 12:47 ????

    The commercial realities of the wider economies of Europe have little to do with the Greek haircut. Wills above states they “they where going to print run one trillion Euro to shore up the scale of debts the private banks in Europe ran up in a drunken sailor credit bubble” David doesn’t delve into this aspect of where the money for the Greek default and the recapitalization of the European banks eg Dexia financial nappies will come from. That’s where Suds comes in. He’s been very busy. On the one hand, reality of haircut 50% for Greece is default. So lots of banks in France are in danger of closing and with those and with with similar banks including eg Dexia
    http://www.dexia-investments.ie/ note their large IFSC operation, lots of local authorities across the world would collapse, if they went, because they would not be able to pay back their exposure to borrowing from the likes of Goldman, not only European would fall, but also eg JP Morgan would disappear, along with the euro and big losses against eg Goldman.

    The solution is to set up a huge ponsi loan to bailout the losses of French banks. Now our Big Zero Kenny should have been in at this point to say our AIB/Anglo ugly sisters should be bailed out as well. I mean compared to the sovereign bailout of Greece, surely, we could at least have a 50% bailout of the ugly sisters? Not so, I think he may have come up with the idea himself, that this solution would have caused contagion and other countries such as Portugal, Italy might want to scut on the back of that lorry.

    So, my point is, lads, follow the money. Examine carefully if eg Goldman is funding some of the bailout for the EFSF, if its making a profit on the deal. I’m guessing it has done so well out of this that a)all potential losses will be paid back in full b)the commission/interest on the loans it is extending as part of the bailout will generate a huge percentile profit out of the crisis on the Goldman books.

    I’ll make the point again as its being shrouded in the witches brew the summit concocted, where is the money coming from; 2, what banks are getting bailed out with what money; why arn’t our ugly sisters being bailed out as part of the deal?

    Know this, no credit will flow into EMU economies as a result of the summit rubbish. Money has been generated for banks to refinance themselves, not to extend loans into communities, but to enable them pay back loans already on their books.

    Because of lies and secrets no stress tests have been done on European banks exposed to losses against Greece. This needs to be done to expose those lies. If only to see where our money is going.

    The summit has been a victory for the bankers, for the bankers, by the bankers. Champagne for Mr Suds, unemployment, social discord, slow meltdown for Europe.

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:47 pm
    Meeting of Finance ministers December will hammer out the real ‘financial information’ on the deal we really need.

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:33 pm
    Also Maria 0 comment at 12:33 seems to have been deleted, this was:

    “maria o says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    David the term ignorance is bliss comes to mind understanding how badly the country is being managed just adds to the stress of living in real Ireland.Lucinda Creighton thinks it is great that we are not Greece as does the rest of them in government I am now back at a salary i last had in the nineties lucky for me that is when i took out my mortgage and i am struggling to keep all the balls in the air can’t imagine what young children and unemployment on top of negitive equity must be doing to people but least we are not Greece or Iceland just stupid Paddies laughing stock of Europe we really cannot give up our colonial past just swapped for a new master”

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:34 pm
    Also Maria 0 comment at 12:33 seems to have been deleted, this was:

    Her comment was:

    “maria o says:
    October 27, 2011 at 12:33 pm
    David the term ignorance is bliss comes to mind understanding how badly the country is being managed just adds to the stress of living in real Ireland.Lucinda Creighton thinks it is great that we are not Greece as does the rest of them in government I am now back at a salary i last had in the nineties lucky for me that is when i took out my mortgage and i am struggling to keep all the balls in the air can’t imagine what young children and unemployment on top of negitive equity must be doing to people but least we are not Greece or Iceland just stupid Paddies laughing stock of Europe we really cannot give up our colonial past just swapped for a new master”

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:36 pm
    sorry about duplicates, said original was a duplicate comment, then it posted a duplicate, perhaps webmaster should take a look at these errors?

    Dorothy Jones says:
    October 27, 2011 at 3:24 pm
    Some anatomy parts missing in the Irish partof the equation:


    Ireland has huge leveraging power currently…and the opportunity is wasted
    Paul would have been best placed to represent IE; DSE has a lot to answer for…

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    But our “reputation” has been “copperfastened”.

    What is our repututation ? — as the EUs Poster gob….. !!!

    Vote Yes for nobs…

    Paul C says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:38 pm
    Gilmore just said on the radio that we MUST pay 100% back to the bondholders “so that Ireland can return to the bond markets soon” to borrow more …..

    Think about that. Does it make sense to you?

    Here’s a MAD idea for the State … BALANCE the budget, STOP borrowing — that’s REAL economic sovereignty! We ran budget surpluses up to a few years ago. It’s not rocket science.

    Do whatever it takes to win back our freedom — tear up Croke Park, stiff the gilt-edged pensioner Ministers, polliticians and so called senior civil servants who fell asleep at the wheel years ago while the bankers ran riot. “Oh we have to pay them. They have a contract” they’ll plead — nonsense! EVERY contract has a ‘Force Majeure’ clause that waives all duties — Why will they never even mention it? This IS the mother of all Crises …. JUST GROW A PAIR and DO IT, FFS

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:55 pm
    Now, now Paul C, this is a great deal for Ireland and for Europe that will both boom because of it.

    Lol don’t be thinking of dead cats bouncing as the Kilkenny team emigrate FFS

    As Hal said in 2001 Space Odyssey, ‘There are some extremely odd things about this mission”

    Georg R. Baumann says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Gilmore is a traitor, full stop!

    Deco says:
    October 27, 2011 at 4:23 pm
    But he is very loyal to his own pocket, and to the pockets of his comrades….

    JOHNNYD says:
    October 27, 2011 at 2:59 pm
    The budget surpluses up to a few years ago were the result of taxes taken on the property and consumer driven boom,which was borrowed money.
    We have never had a true successful independant indigenous economy in Ireland.
    The nearest we came to it was Devs policies of the forties/fifties which were a disaster.
    Arse licking is all we know.

    Geek Boy says:
    October 27, 2011 at 1:58 pm
    Here Is How The 50% Greek Haircut Is Actually Just 28%

    Smoke and mirrors as usual…

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 3:39 pm
    If Greek pension funds are gone 50% as that says, there will be trouble.

    Add in the fact that its a bit like the Tommy Cooper disappearing rabbit, now you see it, now you don’y see it. Couple of days ago we were told banks were refusing the deal. Then we have announcement some International Banking Federation had agreed to it??? Was it these http://www.iif.com/

    Its a bit like the guy who buys a house at an auction, but the bank hasn’t cleared him for a loan.

    Between now and December a lot of arm twisting will be done to get banks on board.

    We should look carefully at the announcements from the meeting of finance ministers when these negotiations are concluded; a) exactly where the money for the EFSF booster is coming from; b) what banks are being bailed out and who is getting what.

    You never know what they’ll find in the attic:


    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    There appears to be more coming out re the haircut. On the face of it, according to your figures and the blogger you link to, the cuts are straight up discounts 1:1 so 1:1 becomes 1:.28 per your figures. Apparently, this is not the case, I’m extrapolating from Radio One Conor Brophy remark he made amongst many other on the subject.

    I stand to be corrected on this, this is what I understand:

    Say there is a discount window of 50%, lets first apply the Geek Boy conditions above, so lets say only 50% of Greek sovereign debt qualifies for discounts.

    As I understand this so far, the 50% discount of the tranche of Greek sovereign debt that qualifies for discount, say that amounts to 50% of GSD(Greek sovereign debt), will occur in the following way.

    Each of eg French banks who hold that debt will be asked to switch the terms of their loans from say a loan/bond with a ten year window, to a bond that will have a 30 year window. If this is agreed with the French bank, that switch will mean a 50% saving to the Greeks. Note the money still has to be repaid in full. Note also there is another complication re CDS. Technically switching out of one bond into another amounts to a default. Thats where the art of negotiation comes in.

    They’ll put pressure on CDS holders to not pull the trigger. I’m thinking there could be some wheeling and dealing and bonuses/commissions/tips changing hands here.

    Point is the above exercise will limit the exposure of French banks. Their losses will be minimised for the moment.

    As to why we did not demand our own banks not subject to a similar exercise on the grounds we don’t need it, amounts to criminal negligence and incompetence of the utmost degree.

    Obviously what’s good for French banks, is not good for Irish banks.

    Sarkozy must be laughing his head off at the Big Zero Kenny, our Light Brigade led by the three stooges, Kenny, Noonan and Honahan and the deal Sarkozy has landed for his French banks, compared to the anchors and guillotine handed out to the Irish banks.

    I think Sarkozy threw Kenny a bone with s throwaway remark European Investment Bank would look favourably to some investment in Ireland…..suckers…lol

    Adam Byrne says:
    October 27, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Malcolm McClure says:
    October 27, 2011 at 5:18 pm
    David writes:”The big fear in Europe is that we would ask for (50% haircut). And why wouldn’t we? After all, we are locked out of the market and we are encumbered with huge bank debts that will take years to pay off, all incurred in order prevent contagious bank defaults across Europe two years ago.”

    David seems to vacillate between “it’s not fair .” and “Let’s stick it to them.”

    Existentialists know that life is not fair. To succeed in getting concessions from the powerful, one always prepares for brinkmanship and never expects concessions on the basis of fairness. This is bread and butter for Union leaders and accounts for Papandreou’s success in gaining much of what he wanted for Greece.

    colm brazel says:
    October 27, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    …and for Kenny’s success at achieving The Big ZERO for Ireland

  16. Weird shit deleting my ass there:)

  17. thirdeye

    Sarkozy speech about Ireland nearing being out of the woods is a joke as his mate in Germany were the people who put Ireland into such a position.The remarks if true of Kenny in regards to paying the debt back and no reduction just tears shreds in Kenny’s governments approach to getting the interest rate cut did not work.EU has shown it was an ECB franco german move to stop contagion spreading to Italy and Spain and effecting more of the French and German banks exposure.The strategy of the Irish government licking up to europe has proven were viewed with even less respectable than the Greeks who at least stood up for themselves.We know with the comments of Sarkozy that Greece was an ERROR in being allowed into the Euro as reported on tonight’s television reports will anger the Greek public and interesting to see the fall out of such comments.

  18. CliveG

    The economist Milton Friedman argued that businesses’ [Which Banks are] sole purpose is to generate profit for shareholders. In 1970 Friedman posed the question. We are beginning to see the global answer.
    The Wizard of Oz deal release by the press office at 3am today gives the impression that the leaders of the modern world were working all night in our interest!
    This is more ‘smoke and mirrors’ insulting our intelligence.
    Why the Wizard of Oz deal ? because Timothy Geithner is the man behind the curtain pulling the strings.
    This deal won’t work and is just a finger in the dyke until the French elections are completed next year. The Greeks have done a good deal and Ireland should follow the lead.
    We have no control anymore debt write off is going to happen any way as more and more people become unable to pay.
    Further, more even if we could pay why should we?
    Paying the impossible now will leave this generation retiring in poverty.
    Buy gold now before the ATM’s stop working.

    • Best and most erudite critique of the Chicago School of economics led by Milton Friedman is given by Naomi Klein, ‘The Shock Doctrine’, well illustrated by Friedman’s contribution to the destruction of public education in New Orleans with the private charter Schools.

      The shock doctrine is currently being enacted in Europe. Wait for next budget. Basically the method based on laisser faire unbridled capitalism has as its aim the destruction of the public sector and its replacement with rampant capitalism exploiting the vacuum left.

      In the US the prison system and the arms industry profiteering on warfare are examples of this. Expect to see mass privatisations of state assets and the denoument and dismantling of the public service as a result of this. Recent closures of private nursing homes in Ireland should alert to consequences.

      Friedman’s approach to the euro crisis is the one we see before us. Bondholders, banks, private interests take precedent over the public interest and jobs.

      • Reading The Shock Doctrine was a huge wake up call and the warnings signs it flags up should sound alarm bells in the head of anyone who is awake and watching

        Free Market fanatics like Friedman and Thatcher were prepared to use military juntas (who dropped journalists out of aeroplanes at night) as poster boys for their psychopathic visions. These people had no morals and no humanity and were monsters who did the spade work for the thugs who are in charge today

        There are signs everywhere of Disaster Capitalism at work it can be argued that a lot of the war effort in Iraq and Afghanistan is run by corporations and private contractors who are making fortunes from these perpetual illegal wars and milking their own taxpayers for the running costs and the hardware

        They have now resorted to taking out sovereign nations (Libya) at will and then laughing about it in the media. If we want to know what the face of the monster looks like we only need to watch Hilary Clinton’s reaction to the murders of Saddam Hussein and Gadaffi which were in direct contravention of the Geneva convention. I bet the loot will come in handy however and you have to wonder if the raising of the bailout fund to 1 Tn at the same time as the taking over of Libya is just a coincidence

        Back in America the net is closing in and the police state is moving into overdrive. Police attacking american citizens and plans to fit street lights with surveillance equipment are not the actions of a democratic government and is why we now have the Occupy Wall Street movement. One in seven Americans are living in poverty and they are waking up

        I like a lot of things American and I am pinning my hopes on their people getting their act together and being the ones who break the back of the monster. Max Keiser and Alex Jones give us hope and like always it is towards the statue of liberty we look when seeking answers in dark times

        There are connections everywhere and it is not too hard to join up the dots but according to the Irish media and celebrity economists all these points have nothing whatsoever to do with economics and in any cases they most likely never happened and were just the rantings of people with overactive imaginations

        Wait until after the budget

  19. Adam Byrne

    Three versions of this article on the site? No wonder I am not getting my email notifications.

  20. molly66

    This government wants exports so what chance do we have if you can’t export yourself your fucked or get on the streets and take down this government maybe we could export them,who would want them now there a thought.

  21. mcsean2163

    Austerity? What is austerity?

    A croagh park agreement that ensure public servants get no pay cuts.

    20% pay cuts in Latvia in 2009.

    We are spending more than we take in.

    Increase taxes, cut public sector wages, reduce dole, reform bankruptcy laws, take the banks off the books and when we don’t have to borrow.. that’s the time to default, if necessary.

    • Austerity? What is austerity?

      imho…politically accepted social genocide.

      • Adam Byrne

        Politically accepted social genocide could also be defined as a period of time where people go on a spending rampage fueled by money that they don’t have, can’t afford nor haven’t really ‘earned’ (easy credit). It’s built of the back of the labour of 3/4 of the population of the world who live in the ‘third world’. It’s certainly genocide (literally) practiced on those people, but it’s also ultimately genocidal as us as we lose our own freedom and a lot of our young people have to leave their country under duress. I say ‘a lot’ because personally I was delighted to get out of here in 1989 and I’ll be delighted to go again in a couple of years.

        Look, austerity is wrong, it’s not necessary here, nor is it necessary for anyone in the world to go hungry or homeless. There’s plenty of money to go around, but most of it is in the hands of the 1%. However,there’s one or two things people should learn in this country from this horrible era if nothing else: don’t spend money that’s not yours or you haven’t earned. Don’t try to keep up with the Joneses, borrowing left right and centre, buying absolute tripe. Don’t vote in assholes who couldn’t manage a dump never mind a country. Change your obscene habits and try to get a proper perspective on what is important in life. It’s not money and possessions, that’s for sure. ‘Consumerism’ is sick.

        But will they learn? Nah, don’t think so. Too stupid.

        • Adam Byrne

          …genocidal ‘on’ us…

        • JOHNNYD

          If the money thats in the hands of the 1% was not in the hands of the 1% then for the most part it wouldnt exist.
          It’s not like the money is there for the taking and it just so happened that the 1% got it.
          It would be highly unlikly that the population of Africa could have collectivly come up with a microsoft and so deny Bill Gates his billions.

          • Adam Byrne

            I see what you are saying JOHNNYD but I was talking about wealth in more general terms.

          • CitizenWhy

            No one wants to deny Bill gates his wealth. Except HE wants to see his taxes go way up so that the US social, employment, environmental, educational and physical infrastructure can be improved and properly maintained. He attributes part of his success to the “platform” this infrastructure provided him. He does not believe that individually earned wealth can be earned without the overall economic well being of the US being in place and maintained.

            Gates made his money outside the speculative financial system, which biggest reason for the wealth disparity in the USS. And researchers at the IMF has models showing that big income disparities MUST lead to regular financial crises. In these crises the middle class loses and even more wealth accrues to the 1%, jumpstarting the crises and volatility all over again, only worse each time.

            It is not such a great idea for the US to devolve in a Latin American style banana republic. Bill Gates worries that this is what is happening with the 99-1% split. As do many of our most successful entrepreneurs.

    • After that, have a referendum on limiting the accumulated deficit to 3%GDP and get it into the Constitution.
      Then produce a strategy to produce the goods that China wants(eg High quality beef and other luxury foods) and become self sufficient in Energy.
      Settle into surplus financing and producing reserves for the day that the US collapses. We mightn’t have time to build up much reserves!!!
      Strategy, Strategy,Strategy, not moan, moan, moan.
      Remenber that we have the good luck to live an a fair and green Isle. We are at the centre of the western world , not the edge of Europe.

  22. pauline

    Unfortunately, Irish people continue to buy into “Respectable” – starving behind the curtains as long as we don’t rock any social boats.. my hatred of the Eu has grown to Bertie Ahern levels….that’s pretty high up the hatred scale.

    There was a a faint hope that we were simply not rocking the EU boat to give them time to sort out the mess and then give us some relief for doing so.

    This now seems unlikely, we should leave the Euro , park ( I like the term Park rather than default, we may pay someday) the EU bank debts and start out on our own.. Europe is a dead experiment for Ireland, stay in the common market but that’s about it…

  23. Deco

    If there is one EU “leader” that really works me up it is that clown on a box, Sarkozy. Latest this morning, he has decided to insult the Greeks. Earlier in the week he insulted the Brits. He made a career out of insulting the Irish. He favours “closer integration” so that different countries can be placed into schemes to prop up French banks and Insurance companies who are run by lazy idiots. The ultimate corporate hit man on a job for “our advertising sponsors”. Hopefully the French people, will throw him out in the next election. Of course, we can take is as certain that he will be the best funded of all the candidates in the election.

    The contempt that Sarkozy has shown the Greek people – demonstrates again, that this is not a bailout of Greece. This is a bailout of rich, well connected French people.

  24. Deco

    Finally, from totally unexpected quarters….somebody has decided to stand up for taxpayers, and stop this nonsense of Marxism for Multi-millionaires.


  25. Dorothy Jones

    Elements missing in the Irish involvement with the EU summit:


    The risible response by LC earlier this morning [Newstalk Breakfast] in relation to the pending payment on Monday of €700m to unsecured bondholders is beneath contempt. Paul would have been best placed to handle this and represent IE interests…..DSE has a lot to answer for…

  26. Dorothy Jones

    ….strong stuff on NWL today: ‘Latest EU summit delivers kick in the Irish unmentionables’

  27. Will ve have Santa C Luas, Santa Claws or Santa Clause for Xmas:


    Klaus trip to China should be of interest to us. If they do provide the money to leverage the EFSF to a trill ¢ , what strings come attached? Do we dismantle the public service and reduce our salary rates down to slave rates. Then of course how secure is that funding given China is on the precipice of a fall with Anglo ghost cities and other presos. And how will this effect forex relationships between the yuan, the dollar and the euro? China is leveraged up to its neck in US dollar securities that may be made less secure if China bull mates with the euro bear. Of course it might help to have a backup if the dollar dips. Hu Jintao might do a Ryanair Aer Lingus graboid move and consider buying the whole euro:)

    Bet Klaus comes home with more in his pocket than The Big Zero Kenny.

    Kenny’s favorite negotiating ploy is to pretend Ireland doesn’t need a bailout and to insist that Ireland pay for a round of drinks for all French banks and all banks in Greece because our economy has begun to boom again………

    Klaus should bring a gift to Hu, I said Hu not who:) Perhaps a dvd with Lulu singing Boom Bang a Bang?

    Now ‘boom’ doesn’t mean fireworks from munition factories, Hu did you say your name was? Yes. OK Yes ……….:)

    The translators better be good:)

    • Hu:

      “Welcome Santa Klaus.

      You say you promised the EFSF ¢1 trill for Xmas but you’ve nothing in your sack?”


      “Promissory notes” (sobs)


      “Do you think I’m Santa Clause?”


      “How about a nice little island currently run by moronic, gombeen leprechauns? To get them off our backs, we’ve promised them a little investment from the European Investment Bank. They’ve a few ports and multi nationals you could play with. They might grow you a bit of grub and sell you some sheep. Get yourselves in there for a couple of year and we’ll transfer the deeds to you. We already own them.”



      “Sorry, I no do business with he who buys hen in market with no money to pay for it”

  28. gizzy

    All negotiation is personal. To deliver a deal you have to need a deal personally. Our negotiators don’t. They have ringfenced salaries perks and pensions. They work in office locked behind big gates with security, porters, persoanl assistants, waiters, chefs, barmen. How could they relate to the real world outside. Two hours in a constituency office empathising with a suffering voter is not enough to fill your belly with fire.

    In real life terms as people they have more in common with the people they meet in Brussels than the people of Ireland. They meet them, they have coffee and lunch with them, they are probably friends of them. They do not need to meet us. We can be dealt with in banal generalisations. Their kids are not on the dole, are not being forced to leanve the country. Why would they fight for us. Because we elected them.

    When and where has it ever worked that way?

  29. todolist

    We are paying out 6 billion a year to 500,000 people for the dole. Why not pay 10 billion a year and give them all jobs at 30K a year. It seems the government have no problem signing cheques for billions to pour into the black holes of the banks. Why not spend the same money on people? Far better value for money! The value from working employment – VAT, more spending power, employment, reducing crime, investing in our country is priceless. Society needs to break away from dependency on markets /speculators and external forces. Let’s start investing our taxes and money where we get the best value – in our people!

  30. franta

    To be able to solve any problem successfully we have to know what the problem is. The problem of unemployment, emigration or even empty main streets is not caused by high national debt and I am sure this problem can’t be fixed by any reduction of this debt.
    This crisis has several dimensions as financial, social and technological. The economy as science is supposed to deal with them all but in fact it focuses primarily on financial aspect. The technological advances mean we do less and less people to produce what we need or just want which has a big impact on societies when large number of people are not needed in production anymore which leads to creation of artificial economies as Irish property boom. During last 10 years Ireland was able to kill successfully almost all domestic ingenious production and this will have a much bigger impact on Ireland’s future than national debt. How are you going to pay for all imported goods sold on main streets? What jobs will you create if you do not need them thanks to new technologies? Will you be breaking computers, robots, and tractors as workers did in 19 century?
    Solution? At first name the problem, introduce the fair personal bankruptcy legislation (and prepare for collapse of banks), through a new legislation and taxation fight the rent mafia (rents (including other charges) are well too high and are sucking too much from productive economy, do benchmarking with other countries if necessary), reform the education (the story about a young educated workforce is a real myth), fix the public sector (for a start reduce wages and pensions to all highly paid public servants do benchmarking with other countries if necessary and then you might start to speak about austerity)
    I have been reading this web site for many years but I am quite busy to write my comments here because for last couple of years I am trying to start a new company in Ireland I had developed a very interesting internet technology. That’s why I am very pessimistic about short term future in Ireland because the environment for creating of new successful start up companies is just not here. I was not able to meet any of those great Irish sales people or investors (every single one told me come back when you will be making a lot of money) and when my technology is already used in several other countries there is no single user in Ireland and my experience is not unique. Until this is addressed forget about a reduction of unemployment because the basic rule is at first you have to make something, then you might sell it and then maybe you might build a Metro-North (it can’t be the other way around).

    • Excellent comment Franta. I agree with most of what you say and would add that we also need demand to pick up, which is where I see debt forgiveness playing a part. But you are correct, if we don’t create the companies making stuff that people want to pay for, we are fooling ourselves.


      • flowerofthemountain


        how can entrepreneurs move from start-up to SME and on to fully-fledged internationally trading corporation in the current paradigm?

        who will provide angel/venture capital for any recuperation/recovery?

        are there still functioning, indigenous ‘Real Irish’ sources for such funds? or have such sources ‘battened down the hatches’ till the storm/hurricane/apocalypse recedes?

        when you refer to ‘we’, that’s ‘Internal Ireland’, but how can they invest in indigenous business?

        is ‘Internal Ireland’ in any position to support such ventures? would they be ‘allowed’ to do so by the terrible trio of the Troika?

        Metro-North: how come the English Tories are able to prioritise/fund a high speed rail link from London to Birmingham, through their voting heartlands? why are they doing so? 3 decades such areas were written off as ‘useless’ and having ‘no future’? Birmingham given AAA credit rating:


        The British Chancellor said in 2009: ‘QE is last resort of desperate governments’

        it hasn’t stopped him! oh, i forget, the privately owned BoE is ‘independent’!

        inflation ‘mysteriously’ rising…..and, to finish, here’s some good news. at last!



        molly bloom

        • Deco

          London and Birmingham are the two largest cities in Britain. I presume the justification is based on cost, and the number of people who will be served. It will be very beneficial to businesses in Birmingham. It will also be convenient in the sense that the Conservatives have the highest quantities of votes in both regions, incidentally….

          What is Ireland doing ? Will the interconnector under D2, linking the two lines proceed ? Will we get to the point of having one train network ? Or will it continue to be a hodge-podge effort ? What would South Korea do ? Or Taiwan ? It will cost a fortune, but we spend an absolute fortune on imported oil, and we do not have network efficiencies, due to the way CIE is organized ?

          A heard a remark a while ago – CIE is FAS on wheels…..

        • franta

          Thanks for your comment. In my opinion the metro but I would rather say an interconnected working public transport network should be here at least 30 years ago. I used it in my comment only to demonstrate that a functional economy producing useful stuff is able to support such projects when it does not work vice versa. Also in my opinion project like this will be only way how to create jobs for some people in our society.
          About moving Start-Up to the next stage: My personal experience is that all investors including business angels in Ireland (or in Europe) are behaving very much like a bank. I approached countless number of investors (BTW my company is in High Potential Startups program of Enterprise Ireland) saying look I have this fully functional technology which was used here and there, saved so much, could be used here and there. I was always honest I said I am techie and what I do not have is marketing and sales skills and that’s what I need an investment for. They always told me come back when you will be making a lot of money and when you will have your sale and marketing plan (Catch 22).
          When I asked Enterprise Ireland for contact to ministry of education because my technology is able to fix some of their problems with zero cost (I was offering the use of the technology for free) and reduce some cost they told me to get the investment first and then I might contact them again. BTW Do you think that Irish parents wouldn’t be happy with a national book rental scheme where all school books will be also available online (in secure environment to guarantee copyrights!) and parents will pay just a fraction of what they are paying now? And much more for free? The official reply of minister of education is that because this technology is not used at any Irish school yet we can’t …
          So it is not always about money but rather about an environment. If we have resources: people, technology and material we do not really need money don’t we?

      • franta

        Thanks for your comment. There’s no question about demand it is really important but I am confident that once we start to fix the problem the demand will improve itself. In the moment Ireland is like a car which is losing petrol, a lot of it. It hardly makes 1 mile per gallon. To ensure a safe drive we have to find and fix the hole in the system before we fill the petrol tank again. I do not doubt for a second that debts which can’t be paid won’t be paid and that’s why it should not be our primary concern in the moment. It is just matter of how much it will cost. It is up to us how many tanks of petrol will we fill and loose before we decide to act? The debt forgiveness is pure loss without a change preceding it.

    • CitizenWhy

      I have attempted to give you two websites where you may be able to find funding but this site did not post them for some reason.

      S try Googling:

      angel investors


      Let’s see if this gets posted.

      • flowerofthemountain


        I’ve just posted with links. you’re getting caught as spam for some reason. it might be that you’re on a ‘roving’ id. the webmaster will sort it at some stage.


    • CitizenWhy

      I have attempted to give you two web sites for start-up funding but this site refuses to post them. Sorry about that.

    • CitizenWhy

      Your story is so sad. Reminds me too much of why my parents left Ireland.

      A friend and I have an idea for a business. In a social conversation we were offered firm funding of $240,000. That happens more than you might think in the USA.

      I am currently wring a BRIEF business plan whose main point is the substantive differentiation of products, key accounts already interested, and the usual about the size of the potential market and what portion we could capture.

      Because of life distractions, this may not happen. In that case I will give the plan and the contacts to a young go-getter.

    • Yeah, the problem is there is no incentive/support for small business >10 people who may even be sole traders. You need to be already making money with a successful product/service and your limited company already piling in profit.


      I spend R&D time on the development of new applications in the mobile area working on the discovery of the golden egg for iPhone and Android as a sole trader and without financial support from the state:(

      There are supports through the Plato programme, check this out:


      You may get networking opportunities through them to connect with the financial investment support you need.


    400,000 to emigrate by 2020.Problems solved! Net Emigration in the eighties was 230,000, not 450,000.it was 4440,000 in the fifties.No wonder the crowd up north don’t want to join a sinking ship.Pete Matthews has gone very quiet.


    400,000 to emigrate by 2020.Problems solved! Net Emigration in the eighties was 230,000, not 450,000,it was 440,000 in the fifties.No wonder the crowd up north don’t want to join a sinking ship.Pete Matthews has gone very quiet.


    Muttley Gallagher’s drawings for the last 5 yrs are the same as what he received in govt grants.Hope Mick Lynn enjoys Brazil, I would.

  34. Malcolm McClure

    If Michael D. gets elected tonight, his first phone call will be to Angela M. congratulating her on becoming Queen of Ireland.

    • Deco

      The first thing he will do is consult with the IMF to see how much money the IMF are prepared to pay for the expensive role, and for much longer……

  35. dmcg

    Turning 200 million in a trillino through leverage? Isn’t that just another word for magic?

    This will not end well.


    • flowerofthemountain

      it will end with massive quantitative easing once the infection turns gangrenous in core Euro.

      here’s the great chart of the C21st Century Schizoid European banking war, which you reference in another replh:


      all that remains to be decided is when, where & how Ireland is absorbed. is it to be by US(via uk) Anglosphere or is it to become a fully-fledged French or Germain ‘protectorate’.


      • flowerofthemountain

        reply above posted to wrong place, it’s in reply to Citizen Why, chart from John Mauldin’s very explosive analysis which you mention below

  36. straboe1

    Yes a fair and green land. Look at the quality of our politicians,the people are responsible for electing them, yes politically the electorate are green. And this society of ours is anything but fair. Brendan o’Donoghue

  37. thirdeye

    The flattery that Ireland has received from one the architects(France) for Irelands bailout beggars belief.Greece will get another write down when this deal like the previous deals are re examined by the financial markets and realize this deal is only good for some short profited but does not tackle the issue itself if Italy or Spain needs a bailout the money will not be suffieient.
    The bad deal we were placed in to save the euro by the previous government has shown the new FG government either don’t care about the country and care more about the EU continued existence or FG/LAB coalition have incompetent individuals in whatever form of negotiations have taken place.

  38. Dorothy Jones

    Suggested soundbite for this week’s EU summit; from Dante’s Divine Comedy upon entering the gates of hell:

    “Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate”
    “Abandon all hope, ye who enter here”

    Cognitive dissonance sets in: markets fall this pm; italian 10 year bonds at just above 6% interest.

    We’re not quite in the inner circle of hell yet it seems, some way to go yet……

  39. Malcolm McClure

    The most dangerous man in Europe is not Sarkozy or van Rompuy, but English ex-MEP Richard Corbett, advisor to the latter, who was interviewed on Newsnight by Paxman earlier this week. He came across as arch-conspirator for the NWO and likely frontman for the Bilderberg Group. He obviously knew well in advance the outcome of window-dressing by the late night Euro leaders conference, and he probably stage-managed the whole thing. See his entry on Wikipedia. Interestingly his entry there says “Corbett spent two months in Ireland from August to October 2009 helping (behind the scenes) the “Yes” campaign in the Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.”
    So we now know that his input was at least as important as that of Suds.

    There is an excellent description of relevant activities by the Bilderberg Group at http://bit.ly/ovlyRd

    These people obviously regard everyone outside their circle as mere cannon-fodder in their quest to steam-roller through the NWO.

    Don’t say that you haven’t been warned.

    • Good link

      “As indicated from leaks of the recent 2011 Bilderberg meeting in Switzerland, the euro-zone is in a major crisis, and Bilderberg members are struggling to keep the house of glass from shattering to pieces.”

    • “As with each meeting, there is the official list of participants, and then there are those participants who attend, but whose names are not listed in any official release.”


  40. CitizenWhy

    US model for creating a two-tier system of citizenship. Now being imposed on Europe. Ireland’s future (or perhaps its present.)


  41. dsuttle

    Observing from abroad, we still we have:

    1. Bertie’s daughter recently smiling and chatting away on RTE’s Late Late. (Why is she not anxious about being more recognizable to an increasingly disgruntled Irish public?)
    2. RTE’s Mike Murphy giving Bertie further airtime to revise history
    3. A Fianna Failer doing well in the polls for president

    If any of those good people from the “Occupy Dame Street” team are reading, how about setting up a satellite office outside Bertie’s house in Drumcondra?

    It would be an appropriate way to make the situation a little more personal for the Aherne family. God knows it is very personal for the rest of us. It would also be a much needed early Christmas present for Ireland.

    • Adam Byrne

      dsuttle – see above and particularly my use of the term ‘Too stupid’.

    • Deco

      Too late for having a movement against Aherne. When he was at the height of his power, between 2000 and 2005, the media lauded him, because he was good for “our advertising sponsors”…

      I thought I was in the land of the zombies, there was such an official consensus about Ahern.

      As far as I remember there was a time when the opposition consisted of Michael O’Leary and Eddie Hobbs. (Both of whom have their own agendas, incidentally, and who cannot be entirely trusted on public matters….)

  42. Pravda RTE gave virtually no coverage of the Referendum on Dail committees of inquiry preferring to concentrate on punctures and personality contests.

    Tks Martin McGuinness and ‘the people’ for exposing the FF sneaky effort. The Aras will have to provide a permanent safe house for Martin:)

    Dail committees should have been on the Late Late with debates on Frontline/Primetime/radio with comparisons to experience abroad especially the US.

    Instead there was a one sided ambush of the legislation in the last week with virtually unchallenged scare mongering.

    Banxters will no doubt sleep safer if the politicians are prevented from nosing around. By the time a case is brought against them they’ll all be dead and gone.

  43. Wrynecks

    The same people who led us into this mess are still steering the ship. This is happening on the big and equally small stage.

    The bottom line questions are still handled in typical FF manner. You are being lied at!

    I just point out Minister Leo “Wryneck’ Varadkar’s latest stunt concerning the 1,000 million USD bonds that Irish taxpayers money will transfer into Anglo Irish Bondholders accounts.

    I saw this on VB, and I wanted to climb over the desk and throw the glove or something else at him. The following days and people who spoke up, are a prime example for the methodical propaganda lies that are constantly fired upon Irish citizens.

    Karl Whelan must see it the same way.


    This is Irish politics as usual, and at it’s best. These people represent special interests and not the people of Ireland, on the contrary, with friends like these, you need not to worry about your enemies.

    The arrogance of power never was more evident.

    Let’s keep it simple. A war was/is waged against Irish citizens, and our representatives are in bed with those who pointed guns at us. It is as simple as that, really.

    The secret behind closed door arrangements express themselves in the propaganda lies the public is bombarded with, and it is not too difficult to look through this constant smoke screen.

    Only around 50% of the people went to vote, and this in itself is the public message that speaks loud and clear!

    The dismantling of democracies is in full swing.

    • tks for link George,I posted this over there:)

      Karl is having difficulty with the language.

      I should explain the language is based on a new verrucra addtion to the Orwellian Newspeak language which uses a new term BellyFeelBlackWhite. I know the piece doesn’t use ‘BellyFeelBlackWhite’ but its the language uses a hidden vector pointer to the key which is BellyFeelBlackWhite. When you understand the meaning of BellyFeelBlackWhite, you can better understand the reasoning of the two ministers.

      Bellyfeel….the reasoning gives you a good feel in the gut or belly even though the reasoning is false.

      Blackwhite….this is where you convince yourself to the point of believing in it yourself that what you say is true, even though it is false. You believe black is white.

      The ministers are using the Irish verrucra, BellyfeelBlackWhite version of Newspeak for which there is no cure.

      Neither logic or evidence will prove against it:) This is replacing the lingua franca in Ireland previously Anglo Saxon English. It is spreading fast with the evolution of bankocracy as it replaces democracy in Ireland.

      You should watch out carefully for examples of this in order not to be gobsmacked.

  44. Collateral damage

    Georg R. Baumann
    October 29, 2011 at 16:01 #
    Ilias Trou said: Media is not showing what is going on in Southern Europe .

    This small sentence carries a lot of weight and very a important truth. As an observer of international press, I read it every morning, I would fully agree with that statement.

    The country in Europe that is under a barrage of fire from banksters and politicos is literally ignored in public media. It is more important to point sticky fingers, broadcast opinions that blame a ‘Dionysus’ Life style to be the real problem in Greece, in short, slandering an entire Nation. It could not be further from the truth and could not be more disgusting how politicos are playing this card. A school teacher finding employment after the first drastic wave of austerity would have earned around 1200 euros, after the latest austerity, today he/she would get less than 600 euro in Greece. Thankfully Gregor Gysi from the left party did not hesitate to point out these facts of austerity in the german parliament, the political cosy cartel of CDU/CSU, FDP and SPD/Greens however, made sure that this insane EFSF proposal is voted for.

    The public is being lied at, increasingly blatant since 2008. The smoke screens are dense, and the lies are many.

    Peace is more than the absence of war alone, much more!

    We do no loger live in peaceful times. The contract was broken, unilaterally broken. A contract that kept the peace was wasted for the benefit of very few, sacrificing peace for their personal advantage. Politicos play a game of deception and lies.

    The markets this, the markets that. Fuck the markets, and shut down the entire system over night, it has been done before, it is called bank holiday.

    The markets are a bunch of extremely overpaid cocain addicts who sit at computer terminals and play ‘World of Warcraft’. They are kiddos paid by banksters, market makers., and of course then you have HFT, algorithmic trading.

    To fix this mess requires not austerity, but to fix the markets instead, to close insolvent banks and not socialize their losses, implementing neo feudal structures as a consequence, dismantling democracies that our fathers and their fathers have fought so hard for.

    We no longer live in peaceful times. This is a war waged on the people. An the generals and admirals are forcing a strategy of burned earth, the collateral damage is calculated and desired.

    The collateral damage are you and I.


  45. The exclusion of the Occupy Movement on DMcW blog

    I pointed that out before, and I emphasize it again. Not a single word David used to acknowledge this movement, not a single word of solidarity and support was used to date. Every since it started on September 17th none of his articles mentioned it.

    On Dame street in Dublin, people were soaked to the bone, they are there to exercise a basic democratic right, and they do it on behalf of many who can not be there. The organize themselves, they march in protest today against the 1 bn USD Anglo Irish Bank heist.

    The deserve our respect and gratitude, not ignorance.

    • Deco

      The should be in Ballsbridge – where the banks are headquartered.

      Or the K-Club. Or Portmarnock – where the cronies meet to backslap each other….

      Dame Street is just the location of an outpost of the ECB.

    • Emperorsgotnoclothes

      You’ve made a very direct and excellent point Georg!

      So let’s ask David McWilliams why he has not once made reference, or offered moral support, to the Occupy movement, either in Dublin or around the world? David, why is this the case?

      Do you not consider this development to be extremely important? I don’t think it would be unreasonable of me to suggest that the majority of people who contribute to this blog would greatly appreciate hearing your views on this movement.

    • Maybe he is too busy making hay out of all this chaos and laughing all the way to the bank. Do you ever think of that Georg? The Irish media can’t be trusted and frankly they are bunch of w%^&*rs

      The OWS protest in Oakland Calif got a very brief mention in today’s indo but the news is three or four days old and was all over the internet like a rash during the week. More reheated pizza

      We saw ex marines out in the streets in solidarity with protesters asking why the police are throwing tear gas canisters into a group who were attending to someone lying injured on the ground. ‘Move On’ was the answer they got. In other words nothing happened and there is nothing to see

      We saw an unemployed chef who lost his job in a five star hotel out helping to run the OWS soup kitchens

      It is people like those marines and that chef who are the ones we should be looking to for inspiration and leadership and not mealy mouthed Irish media whores and politicians who think they own us

      We see corporations interfering with the flow of video information by banning public videos from YouTube and our corporate sponsored politicians are asking us to provide them with the power to set up kangaroo courts which are outside the remit of the judicial process

      The noose is tightening and things will get ugly in Ireland after the budget because people in the ‘real Ireland’ are at the end of their rope

      In the past we have been given glimpses into the level of contempt Irish politicians hold for the public and we should not be surprised if events turn nasty. We have also been made aware of how the Guards can act when faced with groups of protesters

      What is happening in Oakland Calif could easily happen here when the numbers of those who have lost hope swell Dame St and other strategic locations

      I am prepared to join them because I don’t want to live in a country without hope. You are right Georg, they deserve our support and yet looking at the level of reporting on their protest you would think we are actually living in the ‘Imagined Ireland’ of Mr McWilliams imagination. I too am amazed he has not once saw fit to mention it is his writing

      When the protest gains momentum (and it will) we will see the true face of Irish democracy and it won’t be pretty. Only then you will see media luvvies with a sharp eye for cash taking sides with We The People and writing books about how they were there when the Irish people fought back and beat the bullies

      Most chilling of all is that there may come a day when people like you and I will be arrested for coming onto blogs like this and speaking our minds. I can see it and so can you most likely

      • Hi Paul,

        a pacifist and human rights activist won the presidential election. I think, however irrelevant that really is, it is reason for celebration.

        The FT called him a leftwing poet instead, I am not astonished.

        His relevance compared to the current events is small, perhaps even of no importance at all, but this remains to be seen and will be reflected in his very first days of his presidency, as he has a power to make a statement no one else can, whether he chooses to do so, I do not know.

        How will the council of state look like in a short while? Will he dismiss Cowen, Ahern and the likes and send them dismissal without notice, I do not know.

        What I do know is that the people in Dame street, in Oakland, in NY and all over the world are deliberately slandered, dismissed and ridiculed on purpose, this is evident.

        Their concerns and grievances are dismissed as illegitimate and ideologically captured, the opposite is true. Their activism is considered a threat already, but they have no idea how much worse this could become.

        Everything at their disposal is unleashed to slander and dismantle democratic movements, down to agents provocateurs, stirring violence to discredit protests.

        Kilkenomics is around the corner, I would not go there for money I consider it tasteless to the bone. to me It is like someone protesting against the insane food price increases in Kenya, triggered by well known banksters and their games of rigging markets to reap profits, and going home with a special offer from Super Value

        FINE BEANS – KENYA – 180 GRAMS – 2 EURO

  46. Deco

    This is a facinating article. I started reading it because of the fact that the agenda in Europe currently is driven by two buffoons….


    But at the end, I realised something. The West is being led by an assortment of frauds with media or corporate or celebrity endorsement.

    The author also includes that Donkey Derby that finished yesterday. Ah yes, we love being significant, for fear of finding out the truth of our irrelevance.

  47. Deco

    Austerity in Italy.


    Reminds me of the time John O’Donoghue rushed to sign over 400 Million Euro for the “Dole Bowl”….

  48. Sur La Plages sans austerity

    Local newspaper Nice Matin says :

    Les Majors de communes en France have yesterday made known their deep concerns for the economic viability of their communities and their anxiety is growing.

    ( @ Dorothy – don’t forget the ice )

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