October 24, 2011

We are being penalised for being good

Posted in Sunday Business Post · 222 comments ·
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Have you ever seen someone actually sweep something under the carpet? There is a delicious, secretive irresponsibility in the very act.

Many years ago, I remember seeing an old relative do this and being amazed by it, somuch so that,when she left the room, I lay down and peeked under the carpet to see piles of stuff thatmust havebeenbuilding up under there for days. The funny thing about this slovenly old lady is that she lived with her fastidious sister,whoknewdamnwellwhatwasgoing on.Every week, the tidy one would clean up after the messy one, sweeping away the little piles of rubbish fromunder the edges of the carpet.Thereafter,thewhole process would start again.

Whenwe look at the EuropeanUnion, we can hear a sweeping sound as the Europeans try to sweep as much financial rubbish under the carpet as possible.The Europeans – particularly the French – are desperately trying to convince us that the banks’ balance sheets are clean by sweeping the dirty bits under the ECB carpet.TheGermans are like the fastidious sister,who is not prepared to allow the rubbish to build up on the ECB’s balance sheet.

But the problem is that everyone is wise towhat is going on; the world knows what the European banking elite is up to.The very act of evasion makes the problem worse.The French are trying to save their own skins, or at least save their balance sheets fromthe repercussions of their own recklessness.Worse still, they are evoking the name of Europe to justify their grubby little act of financial deception. We should listen to the words of Bismarck about those who evoke Europe to disguise their own actions: ‘‘I have always found the word ‘Europe’ in the mouths of those politicianswhowanted fromother powers something they did not dare to demand in their own name.” Sarkozy is one such politician.He wanted the rest of Europe to pay for SocGen.He does not want France to save theFrenchbanks.Hewants you to save the French banks.How much has changed in three years?

At the beginning of last week, the France of October 2011 was beginning to look like the Ireland of October 2008.By the end of the week, followingMoody’s threat to downgrade France, the 5th Republic looks like a mirror image of Ireland in the dark days of 2008.The French state knows that if it undertakes to prop up its banking system now – as it urged the Irish state to do in 2008 and throughout 2009 – it will contaminate the French sovereign and French bonds will slump.

Last week, French bond yields increased by 0.6 per cent.France wants Europe to pay French debts,yet it wants the Irish to pay for the debts of Irish banks – much of which is owed to French banks. How does that make you feel? France is nowon the hook and needs a European-wide slush fund to bail out its banks. It is, of course, invoking the abstract cause of ‘Europe’ to disguise its own begging bowl.There are many who might conclude that, after a few years of lecturing the rest of Europe on how to behave, the French are getting their just desserts.

Maybe EndaKenny could mischievously raise the issue of loopholes in the French corporation tax system, which allow French companies to pay effectively less tax than corporations in Ireland, and suggest that we should only agree to a euro-wide bailout of French banks if these are closed off immediately. Such a bit of playfulness might wipe the smirk off newDaddy Sarko’s face and, in so doing, remind himthat the EUis a family of nations. When one member of a family is in trouble, they help each other out.The targeting ofour corporation tax rate by France whenwe were without friends was despicable and totally against the spirit of forging a political union.

At the very least, Ireland should see this chaos as an opportunity to stop paying any more to unsecured bondholders of the rogue banks that previously operated here. We should negotiate hard now.But the signals are not good. In the next few weeks, the government seems intent on ploughing ahead with the depraved policy of paying negligent bondholders. InNovember alone, close to $1billionwill be paid by you – the taxpayer – to ‘‘professional investors’’who screwed up by lending to that rogue outfit,Anglo.

Paying thismoney now is ludicrous at a time when our chief European tormentor of last year, France, finds itself a cropper. Most crucially, paying out more money now will not make our balance sheet better, it will make it worse. With the whole of the EUin turmoil, no one expects to get paid.That is what the crisis is about in the first place.Therefore, we should wait and see how Europe is going to deal with its bondholders. It is clear thatGreece will get at least a 50 per cent haircut on all its debts.Every other member of the eurozone should be handled in the same way; after all, you can’t have functioning monetary union if one region gets special treatment.

How can two bankrupt countries be treated differently? BankruptGreece gets a huge write off,yet bankrupt Ireland gets none. That makes no sense. It means Ireland will actually be penalised for being the good boy,while Greece is rewarded for giving the creditors the two fingers. Treating debtors differently would also contravene the fundamental freedoms of the internal market.Remember, it was the EUCommission that penned the ‘One market,onemoney’document that argued EMUwas necessary to bolster the single market. If you treat capital in different countries differently,you have no level playing field and no single market.

Once Greece is given a haircut, the precedent is set for us to give back to the bondholders their bonds inbust banks and tell themthe game is over.By the way, this is called capitalism.This approach is not radical or unorthodox, but mainstream and entirely normal in everyday business. Furthermore, this raises the question of reverse ‘‘moral hazard’’. In the past few weeks, there have been many voices cautioning against moral hazard for borrowers in the case of debt forgiveness for mortgage holders.But if they believe in moral hazard, then itmust cut bothways.

Consequently, the bank that lends recklessly should not get paid in full because it will only embolden it to lend recklessly again. Now that Europe is in turmoil,we should be good Europeans and invoke the single market to get equal treatment with Greece.Following Bismarck’s logic,we are using Europe to demand something for ourselves that we haven’t the balls to demand in our own name.


  1. molly66

    Why o why do we seem to be a nation of sheep
    Why should we play the waiting game.
    The tent village in the centre of Dublin makes more and more sence,
    The longer they are there.
    If the Irish people think that kenny/Gilmore are much use they will be sadly mistaken.
    If we want real change start with putting the government on the minimum wage and watch how fast things will change,because this government is not working for me?ask yourself is this government working for you and your family.
    Has kenny got the balls it takes to stand up and say we are not paying bond holders I don’t think so .
    What happen to all the election promises…?
    If this government thinks they have trouble now wait till December till they try and get there budget of the ground,the might be surprised that the Irish people will change from sheep to wolf pack hey kenny/gilmore you will know real heat soon.

    • David is 100% correct, but he’s wasting his insight on the meekest electorate of the euro zone. Do you really believe the Irish will transmogrify into a wolf pack? Don’t make me laugh.

  2. Malcolm McClure

    Sub.

  3. ladygee2

    Once again another excellent post, David, but then again in having said that it was a difficult enough read as a lot of your words were joined together,(as there were no spaces in between a lot of them).

    Your point about the European Union being a partnership is very apt, but the way the various heads of government are acting its far from that. That idiot Sarkozy just wants to have his cake and eat it, but you know as well as everyone else that he can’t have it both ways, but he’s trying very hard to do so.
    I feel and I’d say a whole load of others do as well that if the Euro’s problems aren’t sorted out soon the whole thing is just going to collapse like a house of cards.
    The Euro was a good idea, but just having a single currency without political integration it’s not going to work and as far as I’m concerned there isn’t the will for it. You have 27 different countries along with 27 different cultures and 27 completely different ways of thinking, so, a United States of Europe is just not going to happen!!!

  4. Rory

    And why won’t we punish the bondholders of Anglo? They are the pillars of our society. Denis, Tony, Dermot et al. Plus ca change.

  5. In France everything is philosophised first before pragmatism gets a look in. We need to imbue the energy of Voltaire and Robespierre and apply it against the French mindset if we want to win.Its the only language they know to agree with no matter how right or wrong you are .

    Napoleon and Sarkozy ( Mr Bling Bling on a stool ) are both short people and very dangerous to be crossed .Good choreography with proper communications will pay off at the table.

    Whatever discount Greece receives so should Ireland and from that balance a deduction should be credited for what we already have paid up since Sept 2008 .

    • Even a 50-60% cut would only represent roughy a quarter of Greeces debt mountain, it won’t work this way, and the Incrementalists know this damn well.

      Scripted realities…. really!

      Sarkozy is not wanted in France anymore since a good while, Berlusconi, Merkel, Cowen, G-Pap, the list is really long. Good Lord, just have good look at these people and their track record! Phony Tony is charging unbelievable sums for his speeches and activities, even that sucker Ahern is still holding speeches, besides sittin in the council of state, together with Cowen.

      What have we allowed democracy to be turned into?

  6. thirdeye

    Kenny is just a weak leader who has no back bone.Most of the Irish people are just spineless when backing Lisbon 2 Treaty and got what they deserved.Im Irish and voted NO to EVERY EU TREATY since I could vote.We are in a new Soviet Union of central control and people have either seen its too late to change or just to dumb to realize they have sacrificed their own and future children’s prosperity to be good europeans.Luck I am going to Live in Switzerland and get out of this gombeen kip of a country.Leaders of 1916 and Hunger Strikers would be spinning in their graves.

    FG /Lab coalition are just mouth pieces for the EU and its policies.FG LAB are the countries version of Lord Haw Haw.
    People did not vote for the same response as FF/Green/PD had towards europe.We all know FG are the arch euro lovers where national sovereignty is a joke and must be treated as such.
    People if they vote for the possible new rumored Euro Treaty will make sure they deserve every curtailment and personnel curtailment as they public will have voted on themselves.Turkeys voting for Christmas.

    • molly66

      Maybe just maybe the Irish people will stand up and say enough is enough . Its like the doom and gloom is the never ending story.

    • Welcome to Switzerland, it won’t be cheap. Check out englishforum.ch

      • thirdeye

        Thanks very much.Well its not cheap in Ireland when you consider in Ireland when you pay your taxes you does not correspeond with other continental countries.We have rat infested temporary portable cabins for our children that are leaking instead of proper concrete school building with the largest class sizes in europe.Hospitals with people lying on chairs for days on end and an over flowing Accident and Emergency wards with cut back in doctors and nurses hiring embargo and wards closed down.Most expensive and slowest broadband in europe.Need I go on and with the swiss freedom party getting a large vote will it make it hard for me to gain entry into Switzerland

  7. Lius

    It’s unbelievable, I have never been so imbarrased to say I’m Irish, we are a bunch of COWARDS!

    We should be on the streets rioting, and we might if the rain lets-up a little and there is nothing good on the telly.

    • I am living in Singapore. They have about the same number of people as Ireland bu t1 hundredth the landmass. They are making money. They have reserves. They started after us. They don’t need to camp out on the streets.
      We have plenty of land. We have one of the world’s best sources of renewable energy. We have some of the best grass growing land on the planet.
      Could we afford to send Kenny and his mates out for a tutorial for a few weeks.
      Forget about the French and the Germans. Remember that we are a republic. Get on with it.
      Maybe when Sean gets voted in he can show them the way to the airport.

      • Dorothy Jones

        @Patrick
        …and lots of empty properties if people wish to occupy them; a precedent has been set recently:

        ‘a court has allowed the squatter, William Tuohy, to remain in the home, a 3-bedroom semi-detached property, which according to the sales blurb for the estate, boasts a marble fireplace and a solid oak kitchen. William appeared before the Tullamore District Court last Wednesday and the judge held that the squatter was entitled to continue living in the property, which reportedly is subject to a loan which is now in NAMA. The squatter was allowed stay after the judge noted that he had improved the property since he moved in, in June, had no intention of committing an offence and has offered to pay rent. The charge of trespass was thrown out.’ NWL

      • Harper66

        “Maybe when Sean gets voted in he can show them the way to the airport”

        Are you having a laugh?

        http://www.independent.ie/national-news/presidential-election/sean-gallagher-linked-to-secret-ff-fundraiser-2911602.html

      • Deco

        Singapore did not need to “Vote Yes for Jobs” or to beleive in Mickey Martin and the “cast-iron guarantees”.

        Because Singapore does Strategic planning.

        Ireland is too busy planning pissups, to be bothered with anything strategic.

  8. straboe1

    I believe that the cheap money that was pushed on the smaller countries of the EU was designed to get them into hock so that they could be manipulated into a closer European union. With the world financial crises following the sub prime debacle, things went too far for Germany and France. Whatever happens they will try to avoid paying their fair share of the cost of what they started. Our government was responsible for the position we are in at present by agreeing to cover the banks debts. We need to renege on these promises, as it was the manipulating countries of Europe that caused our problems. Yes we need somebody with a backbone to take charge, but who is there to do it?

  9. rebean

    I voted for fine Gael , Labour last time out because the country needed a change , anybody but that Cowen would do a better job . Now I realise that Fine Gael do not have the bottle to stand up for the country in Europe. All they care about is public service unions and their own pensions/salaries. If they can keep the top politicians happy by licking their areses all is well . They get enough money to pay themselves and all the higher paid elites in the country. You can see now how Hitler came to power in Germany after WW1. The higher elites had all the wealth and ***k every one else.I wont be voting Fine Gael next time. Think I will try Sinn Fein for the first time. Ireland needs a party like this in power . We cannot seem to do the right thing with middle of the road politicans.They are glued to the greedy elites and ***k every one else.

  10. Perhapx

    I don’t agree with your use of the term ‘the French’. Its too stereotyped. I for one, would not wish that the 99% of the rest of the French, to get what 99% of us got. We should stay focused on the problem. It is the unruly, unaccountable, untaxable, untouchables, all 1% of them.

    Its just a small but important point;- The rest of your article exactly correct and is very good, thanks.

  11. Praetorian

    How many prime ministers and finance ministers does it take to solve a debt crisis?

    Will let you know on Oct 1st 2008, Feb 25th 2009, June 14th 2009, November 1st 2009, March 16th 2010, August 2nd 2010, December 19th 2010, April 4th 2011, July 16th 2011, October 26th 2011………….

  12. Dorothy Jones

    From above: ‘Treating debtors differently would also contravene the fundamental freedoms of the internal market.’
    Yes: there should be no more ‘Summits’. EU leaders should be put into the equivalent of the Big Brother House: they should be locked into a builder’s container on the wasteland near Clongriffin [without any tea or biscuits], and only allowed out when they have a plan and learn to behave.

    • While you paint a funny picture, it is exactly this behind closed doors arrangement culture which has brought us to where we are now.

      I could only imagine a very few circumstances where I would exclude the public from listening in. These G20 meetings should be broadcasted life in deed! But I am afraid, if that would happen, people would ask them to hold meetings once a week, you could hardly get any better stand up comedy.

      • Dorothy Jones

        Yes Georg; not much that is funny about it; I agree with you there. There is a good article [my own opinion] in today’s Irish Tmes 25 Oct 2011 by Paul Krugman: ‘Europe might be better off if euro collapses sooner than later.’ It begins with: @If it weren’t so tragic, the current European crisis would be funny, in a gallows-humour sort of way. For as one rescue plan after another falls flat, Europe’s Very Serious People just keep looking more and more ridiculous.’

  13. CitizenWhy

    Playing by the rules is a dangerous game under financial capitalism. The rules will always change to benefit the bankers. The bankers ARE the rules.

  14. flowerofthemountain

    @straboe1
    ‘I believe that the cheap money that was pushed on the smaller countries of the EU was designed to get them into hock so that they could be manipulated into a closer European union.’

    I agree. I also think the Irish Internal Elite (the Insiders) are in cahoots with this plan. They think it will save their hides. They think that, after subjecting the Outsiders of Ireland to years of crushing austerity, their malinvestments will be made good again in hard-core Neu-Euro.

    This is a credulous position.

    Some Insiders of the Euro project may plan to absorb the shattered remains of the Irish state into their Core-Uber-Euro, but that ‘core’ may also be a fantasy if the French banking system implodes.

    The only current strategic priority of the Euro elite is to protect the malinvestments of the banks of Core-Euro and UK by ‘bailing out’ the periphery through debt peonage.

    Once the peripheral states are bled dry to recapitalise foreign core-Euro banks they will be discarded: unless they have some long-term strategic value.

    Ireland, as a US base for Euroland, may has such a value, but the price to pay is that dreams of nationhood and independence will be sacrificed. From birth at 1916 to death at 2016, quite a trip!

    Any debt taken on by Ireland should have been to prepare for the triple threat of Peak Energy/Economy/Ecology: not to repay foolish speculators. Eventually, the hydrocarbon, food production and wind/wave resources of Ireland will be grabbed as part of the ‘debt’ repayments.

    • CitizenWhy

      Huge capital inflows ino a country always lead to bubbles and busts. Many governments know this – Brazil is an example, being diligent to suppress such inflow – but the Irish government rejoiced in the insanity of money from abroad beyond any justification based on the size of the Irish economy, even with many years of growth. We will never know why, but it could simply be a case of the giddy and arrogant beggar on horseback riding off to hell.

      The banks lent these huge sums knowing that the they could make the governments of the EU pay them after everything fell apart. In effect they have appropriated the tax dollars of citizens throughout Europe and are working on dismantling the social democratic gains of the past few decades. Angela Merkel cannot make a move with getting the approval of the CEO of Deutsche Banc.

  15. flowerofthemountain

    ps:

    ‘Vatican calls for global authority on economy, raps “idolatry of the market”’

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/24/idUS264245887020111024

    interesting times!……

    • jbchalk

      Now their calling for a CENTRAL WORLD BANK. These entities are exposing themselves for all to see.

      http://www.cnbc.com/id/45013499

    • Here is an interesting read

      “The assets of the Virginia Company, including the United States, are owned by the Holy Roman Empire via the Vatican. This occurred in 1213 when King James gave all English assets to the Reptilian Pope. Executorship remains with the British royal family, but actual ownership lies with the Roman Catholic Church.”

      http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sumer_anunnaki/reptiles/reptiles08.htm

      • flowerofthemountain

        David Icke. Queen Elizardbeast.

        http://bit.ly/vh2LgO

        Now you provide more evidence of Illuminati conspiracies!

        Who is the Irish equivalent of David Icke? hmmmn…..

        First name ‘David’. Second name.’McWilliams’.I’m sure there’s some numerological significane in this name. The ginger hair is an obvious sign of demonic origins….

        Is ‘Kilkenonmics’ code for something, a secret meeting of the Insider coven? Obviously, they’d get their real leader to pretend to be an Outsider. Case settled: David McWilliams is the Irish lead of the Illuminati!

      • CitizenWhy

        John Lackland was king of England in 1213. The Virginia company did not exist until centuries later. The Virginia company has long since been dissolved.

    • Vatican has purchased and sold several private offshore banks, with some of their Bishops having their own personal and private accounts in the Bahamas (David Yallop In God’s Name, pg. 76.)

      The Catholic Church is the largest landowner in the world. In Israel alone, after the Israeli government, the Vatican is the second largest landowner there.

      Roman Catholicism is the richest religion in the world today.

      They have vested interests in Rothschild’s Bank in France, Chase Manhattan Bank, Credit Suisse in Zurich and also in London.

      It has also been reported that the Vatican has shares in pharmaceuticals, arms, gold reserves and even contraceptives pills (Yallop, pg. 146; 191)

      and so on and so on….

      • coldblow

        Haven’t you been eating your ‘sweets’? The red ones in the morning, the blue ones last thing at night…

        “It has also been reported” indeed.

        • I don’t see what your problem is. Sounds like someone has touched a nerve. touchy!

          • Colin

            That’s hilarious coming from Mr Touchy Feely “I feel your pain”, “There’s families living on gruel” posts there last week.

          • This guy always seems to strike me as one miserable blighter ….

            Get laid more Colin and stop sounding like a xenophobic little squirt who has more spunk than brains

            I am not anonymous like you and I am easily found.

          • coldblow

            Hi Paul

            Georg was onto another poster recently about taking his tablets and I was just carrying the joke further.

            Also, re my last line, Georg told me the other day that he only posts facts. So this is just a dig. Georg will understand this. dwalsh also recently posted a link to a short article from the Telegraph which used a similar phrase (it might have been “some people believe” or something), coincidentally in a piece about the huge wealth owned, appararently, according to French media, by the Greek Orthodox Church or the Pope or someone. Also, I don’t have a brief to defend the Catholic Church (or the Roman Catholic Church as some like to call it) and if I were posting 50 years ago I might be taking a different tack, I don’t know. Temptation gets the better of me sometimes I’m afraid. So, not touchy at all, see!

            I was just thinking today that it would be a pity if Georg and others stopped posting because it’s such a handy (and fun) way of finding out what the current right-on line is.

          • Colin

            Pauldiv,

            Sounds like you’re the one who needs some loving, with all that pent up frustration you have inside you.

  16. Wouldn’t ye think Kenny/Gilmore praised by Sarkozzzy would be on PrimeTime/VB and other yawn shows every evening taking a bow and explaining to us all:

    A, to what the Irish attribute the success of their wonderful austerity policy that Starkers wants the rest of Europe to emulate.

    Aheem, there again how come Sarkozzy praises the Irish for taking on the sovereign the debt of the banks, when he wants Europe to take on the debt of French banks?

    Now I’m really confused!

    We’ll ignore the junk status Rating Agencies as they don’t count?

    But they know what they’re doing, right?

  17. Adam Byrne

    subscribe.

  18. wills

    David,

    Thats it. Nailed.

    The Greece bondholders will get their just deserts now finally on Wednesday. They will get their writedown, which they should’ve got 3 years ago.

    And let their be no mistake about it, the writedown is going to happen only because there is no where else for the kleptocratic financial elite gangsters to go.

    The only option left is the writedown in order for them to rescue their international ponzi scam machinery from falling apart.

    These bastard ponzi merchants are being found out now, finally.

    Wednesday will SHOW ‘em up for what they are.

    When they green light the debt writedown for Greece the case is thus proven they could’ve done it before, 3 years ago, and carried out the writedown. But, instead, we got the taxpayers and the public purse monies been literally grabbed from the pockets of the lower downers and the vulnerable and the voiceless.

    This is just disgusting spectacle of pure greed and avarice and out of control power gone ape sh1t.

    How much wealth and money do the top 1% want. Or is it at the end of the day a case of the super rich not wanting to get the bus like everyone else.

    • CitizenWhy

      Totally agree.

    • Julia

      Do you not think they’ll put it iff until Friday, and on Friday they’ll put it off until next Tuesday and so on? I mean, why change the habits of a lifetime?

      • wills

        I reckon Wed, but, either way it now is imminent. They are cornered and will do *anything* to save their international pOnzi scam machinery from collapsing. This emans debt writedowns when all else fails.

        • Julia

          No Wills, just heard on the six o clock news – they’re going to put off the decision making on Wed. for another day. I must be psychic!

          • Malcolm McClure

            Julia: We existentialists have a saying: ‘It’s deja vu all over again.
            Americans call it Groundhog Day but in Europe it is Goundpiigs Day and its us in the grinder.

          • wills

            Julia,

            Wed is still on. Its T-time.

            And media all jaw jaw on France /German pressure on Italy bla bla.

            So, they’re massaging the writedown news into place to snuck it out without the sheeple going HEY! why didn’t u do that 3 years ago!!

  19. John Q. Public

    The problem is we are paying back unsecured bondholders. What kind of message does this send to the secured bondholders? There is no unified strategy in Europe to deal with this between ourselves in a least painful way for the EU. It’s just ‘get all you can while you can’ if you happen to be a bondholder. Our leaders (for what they are worth) are nothing but a bunch of can-kickers with no long term vision and lacking gall. We have a council of ministers in Europe, now we need a council of finance ministers to meet regularly (with advisers) with the aim of solving this problem. We did it up the North so we can solve this problem.

  20. CitizenWhy

    If this is how the Republic of Ireland is governed, why would any sane person in NI want to join the Republic?

    • Deco

      Ah yes….but just wait and have a look at how things are run in NI..then you realise, that it is even more dysfunctional up there….

  21. jbchalk

    Its about the INTL Banks (THE CITY) and global conquest. We in the US provide the DOLLAR and the military. This woman in Dublin is on to the scam.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4klALeFpvc&feature=player_embedded

  22. lifeonmars

    But kicking the Greeks plays into propaganda:
    http://goo.gl/yQS6U

  23. SandyfordAl

    Let’s not blame FF, FG or Labour for their apparent inability or unwillingness to stand up the major players in the EU for the good of the country. We habitually vote the same faces back into the Dail election after election, the last election is a mere blip for FF, they’re not going anywhere.
    We have known for 3 years now that we(the average citizen) would end up paying for the greed of the banks/regulators/developers/politicians etc but we did nothing about it. It then dawned on us that we’re not paying for Irish banks’ greed, but for the greed of French and German banks. We’re bailing them out not the other way round as they’d like us to believe. Armed with this knowledge, we did nothing but shrugged our shoulders and recited the Irish mantra “sure what can you do?”
    Suppose for a moment you buy a new coat and when you get home you notice a hole in it. You return to the store where you bought it and the very first sentence out of your mouth is “I’m sorry but……” You were wronged but you apologise, it’s a cultural thing, we don’t like to be seen to make a nuisance of ourselves. Our politicians are a reflection of ourselves, we vote them in because they’re “sound” or “good men”, we should be voting for the belligerant candidates who might actually stand up for something.
    French leaders as far back as De Gaulle(and probably further back) have always put France’s interests first, so Sarkozy is no exception, He is doing what he sees as being right for the people who elected and financed him, the French electorate and French banks, you can decide who’s the bigger influence. We and our political class on the other hand put the Irish electorate’s needs way down the prioroty list to avoid the possibility of being seen to make a nuisance of ourselves, heaven forbid someone sees us as being difficult!
    Essentially we’re a nation of Mrs Doyle’s.

    • flowerofthemountain

      ‘ heaven forbid someone sees us as being difficult!’

      As this plays out, we’ll see that the ‘feckless Greeks’ have no such qualms. They have also prioritised amidst their supposed wantoness. Aside from the vanity projects of Olympics etc, they also ensured they are armed to the teeth, should the necessity for an ‘external distraction’ be required in the future:

      ‘Broke? Buy a few warships, France tells Greece’

      http://reut.rs/ggmymr

      Spiegel Online: ‘France to Sell Frigates to Greece in Controversial Deal’

      etc, in the midst of life we are in debt, etc….

      The Greek Generals, the ‘junta’ from the past may re-emerge at some stage, probably in a resources conflict over the new gas basin discovered near Cyprus:

      ‘East Mediterranean gas conflict could drag in U.S.’

      http://bit.ly/pM9ZGq

      Mercifully, when FF v 2.0 emerge to thwart Sinn Féin, there is no hidden cache of frigates to wage war against real or imagined enemies over hyrdrocarbons beneath the coastal shelves. Having indebted the Irish nation to purchase/rescue ‘financial weapons of mass destruction’, Ireland will remain ‘neutral’ in the coming conflicts.

      A logical, plausible way forward would have been to prioritise a massive infrastructural build up of alt energy and alt agriculture to feed the soon to be hungry cold Brits via the interconnector and grain/cattle exports.

      Ireland could have been in a good position to adapt to the coming energy/economy/ecology chaos, but chose instead to be seduced by core-Euro into debt peonage to rescue foolish bankster terrorists.

      I can’t wait to see what Max Keiser makes of Kilkenonimcs! Or what FEASTA make of John Mauldin’s techo-cornucopian fantasies. And his new anti-ageing face-cream recommendations…..

      ‘http://www.feasta.org/2011/10/16/debt-cancellation-without-chaos-a-programme-for-the-occupy-movement/’

      Ireland, awake from this foolish, doomed trance!

      best wishes

  24. Incident

    New York Times 22nd October 2011

    “A spectators Guide to the Euro crisis”

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/10/22/opinion/20111023_DATAPOINTS.html?ref=opinion

  25. Good article skirting around the absurdities of living in an Ireland which is umbilically attached to a faceless superstate run and controlled by god knows who. A journeyman article which just repeats what we hear all the time and as usual offers little in the way of inspiration, actions or practical solutions. We have more pressing problems at home however and it is not the Europeans who are our main problem. We are the problem

    We should be hammering away at those uncomfortable questions which Irish people seem incapable of addressing due to their need to be liked, lack of intelligence or selfish apathy

    Last weekend we got an insight into what oiled the wheels of the last FF govt and it seems that much business and tribal bonding took place in the Dial
    bar and then back at a private cottage afterwards. This is shocking stuff and tells us about the Irish Concept of Management and the dangers of buying into it. What a bunch of losers

    If I saw a politician sitting on a bar stool pissing it up it would take a lot for my respect for he or she to be restored. Call me a puritan but I think it is not too much to expect a poitician to know when and where it is fine to relax and have a drink. But 20% of the population still thinks Fianna Fail are the leaders of the future! Bhoy we have a lot of work to do on educating our friends and neighbours in the hope that they will not be so stupid as to let them anywhere near power again

    This social scene was mirrored in towns and villages up and down the land as some people went mad and thought that life was a big party. Some were caught up in the madness and are now paying with it with their entire futures. They are not partying now and most of them are debt slaves grappling with the consequences and the mother and father of all hangovers

    With the presidential elections and all the words and energy wasted on doping the nation it looks like the Irish people are not only on their knees but are down and out. The spirit has been bled out of them and they are being laughed at by foreign bondholders and turned stupid by paid media celebrities and treacherous politicians

    It amazes me that you talk a lot about the Diaspora in your articles and that you think that somehow they will come charging in like the cavalry, invest and holiday here to improve the economy and save us from our mass stupidity

    You don’t have what it takes. Roy Keane knew it and he said so on the sands of Saipan. There is an Irish Diaspora not a million miles from here who were led by a Scottish Coal miner to being the first non latin football team to lift the European Cup. It was done under the hot sun of Lisbon in a sea of Irish
    tricolours and it was pulled off thanks to real leadership and sefless teamwork

    Many said it couldn’t be done but the leader felt otherwise and said that you can achieve anything if you focus on your goal and pull together. Ireland has no goal, is far from together and there is not one politician here who looks capable of doing anything of note that they will be remembered for after they expire

    This government will soon what it is like to have a bad night and I expect Badly Noonan will after his next few budgets turn out to be the most hated politician in Ireland. We all know what side he is playing for and it not for the Tricolour

  26. piombo

    David,
    Great article, hope to see you in Kilkenny.
    I agree Ireland has an opportunity to play hard ball, but alas, the government will bottle out as there is no Plan B as we’ve been discreetly told six months ago from Washington to pay our debts or else Google and all other multinationals are out of here.
    In addition, any scent of a challenge to the ECB would cause a liquidity freeze with our “pillar banks”.
    Unfortunately, the game is up since a long while, and the governments’ role in the coming weeks will be to manage/muffle the message.
    It is tragic for Ireland and a lot of the Irish, but not for all concerned. Just note carefully those whose argue in the coming weeks the sheer nobility of taking the medecine over the medium term.
    By the way, in Italy this evening, there is an idea to mandate private pension funds to hold Italian government bonds versus foreign ones. This echoes Daniel Gros’ idea floated last march. Our government should mandate similar measures as a way of aligning medium term financial interests with those of the general population.

  27. Malcolm McClure

    Brilliant debate continues now in Westminster on EC Referendum. Big revolt against whips.
    See BBC Parliament.

  28. gizzy

    What have we made of Independence to date. Once the British left we handed over control to the Church to run Irish Life. They set all the rules of behaviour for everything we did. Kenny, Noonan et al are from that generation and conditioning. They could not behave any differently than subservient.The Church only recently lost control then Fianna Fail stepped into a vacuum and decided the country should be set up on the basis of who you know. The media had us alll looking in the wrong direction for brown bags when the payments were really jobs key positions, state contracts. They were finally kicked out however their appointments and influence still dominate the permanent government. Now we have country village nice boys who will do harm by just being nice and nothing else. I have met Mr Kenny twice, it was like eating Candy Floss. It’s light and sweet with no substance.

    But we should not be too harsh on ourselves we are new to this game of ruling ourselves. But now that we have gotten free from Britain, the Roman Catholic Church and Fianna Fail the time is right to make the next move and it is not as pawn of Northern Europe. I know some will disagree with this but I stll get a sense they believe, we along with the latins are inferior and there to be bossed around. Maybe meeting our elected politicians backs up their views but I do not believe they are a real reflection of the Irish people.

    • Deco

      “The price of greatness (and freedom) is responsibility” Churchill.

      To be free, we are required to be personally, and collectively responsible. Otherwise we will lose our freedom.

      And this means taking responsibility for shafting the Anglo Bondholders, if necessary.

  29. It is not only that we are being penalized for being the poster boys of the Troika, it is the latter that is so much more important for Kenny and his EPP disciples in FG/Labour government.

    For these idiots from the troika, Ireland is what they need to showcase as a success, and the compliant managers like Noonan etc are playing into their hands.

    Reading about the leverage plans that emerged now, game over. thats it, the rest is history and only a matter of time until everything collapses into a void of political and social chaos of the worst kind.

    They are not covering the entire debt mountain but again play their incrementalist game, a game we witnessed to NOT work since more than 12 quarters, on the contrary, it ripped Ireland and especially Greece into pieces.

    These people rather have everything going up in flames instead of admitting that their ‘strategy’, which is nothing really but a fatalistic ideology is plain wrong!

    x x x x

    On the matter of 30th amendment, once again, the Irish are being taken for a ride, just as was with Lisbon, but well I expressed that already in detail.

    We were given the totalitarian dictatorship, it was applied by a FF/Green party system that ran the country into the ground to the very last breath they could take, carving NAMA into the flesh of this Nation, refusing by elections, ignoring peoples call for Cowen to leave his post, ignoring peoples call for a referendum on banking and no extension of the guarantee, to close down Anglo Irish Bank, to NOT pay bondholders and do what is right instead and default, and their last strike was to enable IMF-ECB-EU to take over this country before elections were held. Then the voters elected, and see what we got now, FF/Green politics continued to the letter. EU-Commission poster boys by any standard.

    On the amendment and the letter of the 8 ex attorneys, it sure feels strange to agree with this GS bastard Sutherland on rejecting this change. We all know that he was instrumental in this disaster, pulling strings behind the curtains with politicos.

    If people like Alexander Dibelius, Loyd Blankenfein, Peter Sutherland, Ackermann etc. a longer list in deed, would just burn in the flames of an exploding airplane accident… I would invite good friends to party and celebrate for a few days in a row, I mean it!

    While this dumb fuck of Merkel, a woman with NO convictions whatsoever, and this substitute Napoleon are pushing their sick games, spine and ruthless politicians all over Europe bowing to Banksters and their plots, willingly enslaving generations into debt traps, destroying a middle class, the people are dying, taking their own lives, or end up in depression and despair, and bondholders are paid.

    If the triple strike should really happen, Gallagher should win this election, and both amendments are voted for with yes, I made a promise to myself, from there on I give a shit. If this public has not learned anything in the past three years, and there was ample opportunity, well, then there is nothing on this Earth really that could make them learn at all.

    Sorry for venting, my world, the world of my friends and those I love around me is falling apart by no failure of their doing, and it pisses me off… you have no idea!

    • redriversix

      Evening Georg R

      The plane crash idea although admirable will not work as “they”would be replaced by low-paid contract workers who would be more efficient working on our destruction so they could get the monthly ALDI bonus vouchers.

      Although I do know how you feel,I am kinda lost for words lately as the whole thing is such a fucking shit storm.

      We need a revolution , We are definetly getting a War , not sure about revolution.

      Never say sorry for venting,better out than in……

      More later..

      • Merkel succeeded to make me feel embarrassed to hold a german passport, and I am not the only one! She is by any standards the worst chancellor in the young history of the BRD, the destruction internally and externally she has caused defies belief.

        Something has to give, I am just not sure what it will be…. but it won’t take much longer this I am certain on.

        • redriversix

          @Georg

          I am really not sure if it has anything to do with Merkel,Sarkozy etc anymore…

          Maybe I am naive but surely the people in charge cannot truly believe the crap their peddling.

          One trillion Euro to solve EU Bank crisis….????

          One billion Anglo bond due in November…???

          Maybe there is a “Wizard” behind big green curtains pulling the strings.

          When this crisis reaches a catastrophic
          finale, will we still be writing or will it be too late…..

    • breltub

      I agree with Georg here in almost everything. I’d fill the plane first though with a few more of that ilk.

      there should be a mathematical formula to work out how long the game has left.Must be something in games theory formula somewhere that would pin the tail on the bull or bear

      [Emergency funding available / weekly need for emergency payments ] * [More emergency funding / weekly need for continued emergency payments] * [Money Printing / [Sarkozy/Merkel³]] – 4 days due to bank run!

  30. @citizenwhy,

    Re “Huge capital inflows ino a country always lead to bubbles and busts. Many governments know this — Brazil is an example, being diligent to suppress such inflow — but the Irish government rejoiced in the insanity of money from abroad beyond any justification based on the size of the Irish economy, even with many years of growth. We will never know why, but it could simply be a case of the giddy and arrogant beggar on horseback riding off to hell.”

    Michael Casey former chief economist of the Central Bank has a new book out.

    Heard him interviewed by Andy O Mahony on ‘Off The Shelf’ Curiously there does not appear to be a podcast of this episode. But Casey made one remark that might have a great deal to do with it. He said that the Department of Finance never had even during the bubble years a macro economic policy unit. They were over influenced by the Minister in Charge.

    I’m guessing Macro Economic policy was left to the Central Bank and the Regulator. The Regulator was asleep at the wheel on mushrooms given him by the Minister in charge.

    My theory is the bankers, personified by Seanie Fitzpatrick and Anglo, the FF bank, licking their lips on commissions/bonuses/profit, alerted FF to the ‘golden egg’ money from ECB.

    FF under Bertie/McGravy then pressed the green button and the money was spread out onto the land’s flood plains. Unfortunately, the ponsi scheme taking Ireland and FF to the cleaners by Europe’s ECB, was not spotted by FF.

    Seeing the initial virtual boost to the economy, they were sucked into the pyramid scheme.

    The same incompetent outfit that gave you the Tiger, is running the present austerity circus:)

    http://www.theliffeypress.com/proddetail.php?prod=85-8

    • CitizenWhy

      Too true. The base of the problem is not only crony politics but incompetence. I fear that Yeats fear that a “nation of clowns” would emerge from independence turned out too true.

    • CitizenWhy

      Thanks for the link to the book. I am definitely buying it. The blurb was right on target.

    • gizzy

      There was no policy, the government took 33% of the sales price of all new units built. The councils took between 15 and 20 k per unit which they used to pay inflated salaries and pensions. Isn’t it interesting but no one picks it up that the real housing explosion occurred from 2004 when the planninglevy was introduced.Councils gave planning to get fees not to cater for needs and the government was the biggest recipient of income. Who needs and economic unit or strategy for construction or anything else.

  31. 33square

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/1024/referendum.html

    The letter is signed by: David Byrne, Patrick Connolly, Paul Gallagher, Dermot Gleeson, Michael McDowell, Peter Sutherland, John Rogers and Harold Whelehan

    what are this interesting (cough) bunch afraid of?

    • To suggest that any of them are afraid, like Shatter did, is ludicrous. He is way out of his league, and he is just trying to turn this into his advantage, and last but not least, it does not matter what this club of ex wigged stated, people need to read it, and their jaw will drop, and they will vote no.

  32. CitizenWhy

    Essential reading:

    New Scientist magazine reveals the 147 banks and corporations that rule the world. http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228354.500-revealed–the-capitalist-network-that-runs-the-world.html

  33. Tinker Tailor Soldier SPY

    Yes , I am refering to Alan SHATTER and his Kangaroo Courts .Does anyone realise how serious this propsed change to the constitution is ?

    Has he lost his Irish Jew Nationality and swapped it for an Israeli Jew Nationality ?.Is he MOSSAD ? I can smell a RAT especially small ones .

    I say all this because I encountered such a Rat in 1993 in the process of commiting an EU Ponzi Scheme and Fraud and had reported it to Garda Phoenix Park at the time.It was an Israeli Jew SCAM on Ireland and EU Banks .( Read : Wissum Sagen my photo is in it ) .

    Why do Israeli Jews want supreme political authority over the Irish Nation ? Who is pushing Alan Shatter ? Here we have another Brian Lenihan in disguise surrounded by dangerous people .Why is this not transparent ? Why has this political agenda been hidden from the Public / Electorate ?

    • redriversix

      Careful John Allen

      You will be labelled as anti-semitic..!

      • @redriversix

        Can you read it again …properly ?

        • redriversix

          I got it the first time JohnAllen.

          It is the use of the term “jew”that they react to.

          I could not care less how they are addressed.

          I was not criticizing or labeling you….

      • That is an old trick and one we should all get wise to. Criticise the Zionists and an avalanche of retribution will shred your reputation before the dawn and you will be clearing your desk before 9.30. They are bullies who prefer to rule by fear and intimidation because there is no logical or justifiable argument which supports their agenda.

        Who cares if they label people. Two can play that game

    • It is the most dangerous proposal for an amendment I can imagine.

      People would be well advised not to give a damn on what the ex eight attorneys stated, but actually spend 10 minutes, really, it is all that is required to actually READ that.

      Anyone with a brian worth a coup of tea and who read this text and who is democrat could not remotely consider to vote yes.

      It is totalitarian and extremely dangerous!

      • Malcolm McClure

        Georg: On reflection, I’m beginning to think you might be right. There just aren’t enough of ‘The Great and the Good’ in the Dail to make such a quasi-judicial inquisition work effectively.

        However, what makes you think that the bewigged system of justice will be more effective in arriving at the truth for modest cost? Of course there is a risk that some reputations may be tarnished if people are dragged in front of a Parliamentary Committee without filtering by the DPP; but the objective, as I understand it, is to arrive at measures that will prevent repetition of the circumstances, rather than punishment of the perps.

        Surely legislators need to understand thoroughly the flaws and loopholes in the present arrangements so that they can improve them quickly, rather than wait a decade or two for the results of a Judicial Public Inquiry?

        • +1

          I’m voting in favour.

          I’m hoping there will be a balance between powers vested in committees and powers the judiciary already have. I think there are other interestes at work here as well. The tribunals through their costs, time to process, have been in many ways counter productive allowing the perpetrators to slip away into oblivion while the legal profession milked the system ad nauseam. It should not be underestimated how much the AG’s have come out against this influenced by the amount of work that the legal profession will no longer be able to milk. Re committees, there is the elective process itself allowing people to have a say, the public will be able to sit in judgment with the help of the media to apply proper criticism if any rights are abused.

          They should be given a chance. I hope some system equivalent to the American standing committee on the judiciary which eg impeached Nixon will be brought in where questions can be answered in public under media scrutiny.

          There is the danger of committees descending into McCarthyism in some future Orwellian state. You’ll have to research for yourself how McCarthyism was brought to a close by US system of checks and balances.

          On balance, I’m going for Yep

          • I’m hoping there will be a balance between powers vested in committees and powers the judiciary already have

            Allow me the attempt to transform your false hopes into realistic knowledge:

            This means that the House or Houses would have discretion as to the procedures to be applied in any given case. The balance struck in any given case may have important implications for people affected by an inquiry. It is not possible to state definitively what role, if any, the courts would have in reviewing the procedures adopted by the Houses.

          • Further…

            Malcolm, Colm,

            You both know what Notstandgesetzeare, their history and the abuse of such emergency acts are documented in detail.

            Effectively, what is happening here is the introduction of the equivalent of a Notstandgesetz, but camouflaged as a constitutional amendment, that is fast tracked and by any standards not sufficiently communicated to the public at all, this is why I find the comparison with Lisbon 2.0 correct.

            It is presented as if it would be the attempt of this government to seek justice, justice the public is deprived from since 2008 hence longs for it and expressed it on many occasions. Shatters arrogance and blatantly obvious manipulation of public perception is striking. Fact is, if this government would have wanted to act on behalf of the people, the would have stopped the extension of the banking guarantee, would have entered the vaults of Anglo irish Bank and so much more, but de facto the very people who wish to introduce this Notstandsgesetz are in cahoots with the Anglo’s of this world, the have proven this over and over again.

            Sorry, but it would be really foolish with dangerous and with consequences to transfer this power to them.

            The notion that we could not go after the people responsible for this mess, well this is plain wrong, they did have no intention to go after them is the correct description, they are part of it.

          • Georg, I understand your anxieties, I’m happy enough that the people will be able to review those procedures, the media will be able to review those procedures. EG the following illustrates what happened in the US when the McCarthy tribunal was abused:

            I would in pointing this out to demonstrate for this to work properly, proceedings should be under video and broadcast under the FYI, Freedom of Information Act, with full media access.

            The system is open to abuse, I agree, that’s why I cite the McCarthyism example, but on balance there are ways those abuses can be picked up by the judiciary and the media and if necessary changes made in the future to safeguard and improve the methods used and the work carried out.

            Re ” It is not possible to state definitively what role, if any, the courts would have in reviewing the procedures adopted by the Houses.”

            I’m happy enough with that. Procedures will be transparent:

            “We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men.[24]
            This broadcast has been cited as a key episode in bringing about the end of McCarthyism.[84]
            In April 1954, Senator McCarthy was also under attack in the Army—McCarthy hearings. These hearings were televised live on the new American Broadcasting Company network, allowing the public to view first-hand McCarthy’s interrogation of individuals and his controversial tactics. In one exchange, McCarthy reminded the attorney for the Army, Joseph Welch, that he had an employee in his law firm who had belonged to an organization that had been accused of Communist sympathies. In an exchange that reflected the increasingly negative public opinion of McCarthy, Welch famously rebuked the senator: “Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”[85]
            [edit]Decline

            In the mid- and late 1950s, the attitudes and institutions of McCarthyism slowly weakened. Changing public sentiments had a lot to do with this; the decline of McCarthyism may also be charted through a series of court decisions.
            A key figure in the end of the blacklisting of McCarthyism was John Henry Faulk. Host of an afternoon comedy radio show, Faulk was a leftist active in his union, the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists. He was scrutinized by AWARE, Inc., one of the private firms that examined individuals for signs of communist “disloyalty”. Marked by AWARE as unfit, he was fired by CBS Radio. Almost uniquely among the many victims of blacklisting, Faulk decided to sue AWARE in 1957 and finally won the case in 1962.[86] With this court decision, the private blacklisters and those who used them were put on notice that they were legally liable for the professional and financial damage they caused. Although some informal blacklisting continued, the private “loyalty checking” agencies were soon a thing of the past.[87] Even before the Faulk verdict, many in Hollywood had decided it was time to break the blacklist. In 1960, Dalton Trumbo, one of the best known members of the Hollywood Ten, was publicly credited with writing the films Exodus and Spartacus.”

          • Re ” It is not possible to state definitively what role, if any, the courts would have in reviewing the procedures adopted by the Houses.”

            I’m happy enough with that. Procedures will be transparent:

            The transparency track record in this Republic is anything but convincing, but I shall no longer interfere with your happiness on the matter.

            ;-)

          • I would in pointing this out to demonstrate for this to work properly, proceedings should be under video and broadcast under the FYI, Freedom of Information Act, with full media access.

            By satisfying a ‘Judge Judy Voyeurism’ american style, not a lot is achieve in my view, the mock up trials of Blankenfein and the other crooks were just that, and as I said earlier, it is not written anywhere that these procedures are required to be public, it is at their discretion.

        • Malcolm McClure

          Georg and Colm: Back in 2001 I unexpectedly became glued to the televised proceedings of the Mini-CTC hearings. This was a good example of what these sub-committees could active by way of investigation. The Sub-committee sat in public for a total of 26 days, hearing testimony from 75 witnesses. Then, just at the stage when all that remained was the conclusion of the cross-examination of two witnesses, the High Court judgment in Abbeylara, which was wider than the Supreme Court decision, was handed down. As a result, the Sub-committee adjourned ad sine die, and the 2002 election drew a line under the outcome.

          i taped significant extracts from those proceedings as I expected they would have historical value in exposing that there was something rotten in the State of Ireland. Also, I had gained the distinct impression that Sean Doherty and his committee were intent on exposing the culprits. I believe that subsequent excesses during the boom would have been very much curtailed if that investigation had been allowed to continue to completion.

          There is a useful discussion of the roles of these Sub-committees, heavily steeped in legal jargon, in:
          http://corkonlinelawreview.com/editions/2011/03/Prof-David-Gwyn-Morgan.pdf

          It is heavy going but worth reading to understand the background to this proposed constitutional amendment.

          • Malcolm McClure

            I read this blog as light relief for work on coding that sometimes demands more concentration than I have and you give me that to read:)

            Its interesting. I scanned it, language is awful in it:)

            It does explore the issues. I don’t disagree with its views.

            If cross party Judicial Inquiry gets the go, they should have be given a self reporting function to carry out, similar to waht’s in that .pdf, to make recommendations, improvements, observations to comment on their difficulties, successes etc

            By the way, the role of Attorney General should be investigated as he’s loads of discretion in deciding whether prosecutions should go ahead and he frequently doesn’t give getgo for lots of them; can easily stop inquiries into the banks!

    • This MURDER on The Judicial EXPRESS

    • Colin

      “Has he lost his Irish Jew Nationality and swapped it for an Israeli Jew Nationality ?”
      Answer; No. Show me the evidence if you disagree.

      “Is he MOSSAD ?”
      Answer; No. And if you think you can get an answer from Mossad you’ll be waiting forever, as they do not comment on anything.

      ” I can smell a RAT especially small ones .”
      Answer; Great News John, a career in Rentokil beckons when your clients no longer can afford to pay you your accountancy fees.

      “Why do Israeli Jews want supreme political authority over the Irish Nation ?”
      Answer; Because both our countries begin with the letter I, and our diasporas are very similar and are both friendly with the Great Satan, the USA!

      “Here we have another Brian Lenihan in disguise surrounded by dangerous people?”
      Answer; Rumour has it that Limerick TD Willie O’Dea was in fact Groucho Marx in disguise, now doesn’t that bate Banagher?

      “Why is this not transparent ?”
      Answer; Have you tried looking through a moustache drowning in Guinness?

  34. goldbug

    GEORG+JOHN->

    “It shall be for the House or Houses concerned to determine, with due regard to the principles of fair procedures, the appropriate balance between the rights of persons and the public interest for the purposes of ensuring an effective inquiry into any matter to which subsection 2° applies.”

    “DUE REGARD” – MAKES U FEEL SAFER?

    “FAIR PROCEDURES” – WHAT ARE THEY?

    THIS MAKES THEM GOD.

    THE ONLY QUESTION IS WHAT IS PUBLIC INTEREST?

  35. johnny123

    Why do you keep calling this ‘capitalism’. It’s clearly not capitalism … If it was the gamblers would have lost and there’d be a different crisis going on in the world … One caused by capitalism. This isn’t that.

  36. So Frontline has revealed ‘ Paddy the Smuggler ‘ ….Seanie Fitz and Seanie Gal ….spot the difference .

    • Julia

      John, if Gallagher wins now – and he still might, I just wish I was young enough or brave enough to emigrate. I predict that FF will be back in power two elections from now.

  37. ladygee2

    I feel that the common people of Ireland need to be very wary about any proposals to amend the constitution both now and in the future, because once changes have been made it’s very hard or even impossible to change them back.
    Has any one stopped and really thought about who are the people who are proposing these changes to the constitution? It’s the politicians who are the people who want these changes to be made for their own devices. Surely we should have learned our lesson after the debacle of we having to vote for a second time on the Lisbon Treaty after we had voted against it the first time round.
    People are beginning to see the light on this but will there be enough time between now and polling day for people to wake up to the fact that these proposed changes need to be voted down with a vengeance!!

  38. george

    Dear David:

    Another fantastic article by you! Writing so you are doing a great service to Ireland and it’s people.

    I disagree with you in the following. We are being penalised for being foolish and subservient. So in fact this partly is a self inflicted suffering that has many root causes.

    A political and economical Elite that want to screw us. And the believe of some people, that use their mouths before their brains. And think that without even being able to make an indigenous bicycle, we can boast about the smart economy, and we can pay ourselves more than the rest of Europe, with even better terms and conditions, and with a so called “low tax economy” for the rich.

    This new European Deal everyone is taking since last weekend doesn’t make any sense, for some of the reasons you are pointing above, and other aswell. And if I would be a German citizen and this week the politicians of that Country give Angella Merkel the go-ahead to go back on Wednesday, to seal the deal that mainly Nicola Sarkozy wants to save the pals that put him in power, and to carry with the nonsense you write above… I’ll be extremely angry!

    • Lord Jimbo

      “A political and economical Elite that want to screw us.”

      That’s it in a nutshell. They screw in good times and screw more in bad times because someone else has to make up for the shortfall. Thankfully we have a media exposing such a system and the associated hypocrisy.

      • george

        A local tradesman wants to open an arch besides his shop to expose to the public another aspect of his business. He doesn’t have to connect to water or electricity or sewerage. The County Council wants to charge him for development fees 10.000 (ten thousand euro).
        .
        “Low tax economy” for the rich, while ordinary people has to pay for the concessions they are given. And for bureaucrats inflated salaries, privileges and egos, lump sums and golden handshakes.
        .
        While we wait for the next budget they say to us “we are in the pathway to recovery”. They even brought Clinton and Obama to convince us about it. And we clapped like fools. Give me a break!

        • Deco

          This type of extortion from local authorities, is widespread.

          I know of a business that wanted to invest 1 Million Euro of it’s own savings in a production facility that would serve the UK market. They went to their local authority – and were ordered to pay 80 thousand Euro up front, and then were told of substantial rates bills to be paid in years to come. They were also “advised” on which architect to hire for the planning, and which other professionals to hire in order to get EPA clearance.

          They withdrew the project, and refused to invest any more. This was not a case of waiting for credit. This was a case of just deciding that Ireland is not a suitable place to invest. Last I heard, they were in Poland looking for investment ideas.

          Is Feidir Linn – I think not
          Ni Feider Linn – is a more accurate description of events.

  39. Epic Frontline last night.

    Pravda RTE was breached, Pat, Miriam, Tubs candy floss Pravda PC questioning was over. Hauled into the studio like Greeks hidden in a Trojan Horse entering the city of Troy came the people armed with lethal questions as they threw light hearted spears.

    Gay Mitchell furious at the people questions lost it. I was worried at one point that he might have a whip hidden and begin to beat me though I was watching the show from the safety of home.

    The mask of FG fell away. Suddenly we saw the covert media manipulation, the arrogant disdain at the right of ordinary people to ask ordinary questions to allow candidates reveal their personalities and attitudes to matters of public importance.

    We saw why they coverup the banks with a thin veneer of secrecy and disdain for the public right to know. We saw censorship unmasked. We found out why we’ve had no referendum on the banks.

    We saw a cabal biting at us like the rattle snake it is.

    Hopefully, this formula, allowing people to ask raw questions, will be followed up by RTE and we will get more of the same. Its about time we had this format from the media. Its one that Johnathan Dimbleby, on Question time, BBC, has used successfully throughout the UK for many years. John Bowman’s show is much missed.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/question_time/default.stm

    Pat Kenny under duress did a great job. Perhaps unused to the new format:) he should allow the final word.

    I wonder if Pat and co presenters on Pravda RTE are finally waking up to the fact that the politicians in their austerities will be having turkey for Christmas and that there is a good chance RTE is the turkey on the menu:)

    • phew….

      I think that course like ‘Public and Private Media – Perception and Analysis’ should be a mandatory in schools from early years on.

      I would guess that at a certain age this ability is rather underdeveloped if not cherished from early years on, and even adult evening courses can only do so much to break up the lack of analytical skills and perception habits engrained.

    • coldblow

      I only switched on for a moment, just in time to hear a posh woman tell McGuinness that we’re different down here, and that she has no interest in the Troubles. His reply was to the effect that Derry and Fermanagh are just as Irish as Cork or Kerry. I didn’t see the rest of the programme but given a choice between the politicians and the ‘people of Ireland” on this showing I’d choose the former.

      • ict

        In fairness, you were a bit unlucky there.

        That “Derry is a foreign country” woman was probably one of the few low points of an otherwise good debate

  40. …final word on a quationer go to the questioner to respond to the answer they got…

    • oops, sorry, let me clean that:

      The sentence should read:

      ‘…final word on a question should go to the person who asked the question in the first place; in order to give the person who asked the original question, a chance to respond to the answers they got from everyone who attempted a reply…’

  41. breltub

    So the leveraged EFSF pumps 1 trillion debt into a vampiric system, propping up both banks and governments until the printers cant keep up with this and the money runs out to pay the loans that were repackaged into the CDO that was used to create this 1 trillion bank viagra fund.

    So when this fails, the CDS’s get called in and no money will be found as the CDS’s are not backed, but not before our deposits have been taken, which is why Europe has tried to stop the CDS markets, because when the EFSF fails, they will have an even bigger storm if CDS open season is allowed on the EFSF.

    It’s now all maths and manipulations of figures!

    David, I think you need to highlight this reality and the utter corruption that is going on, and do it clearly. You have the knowledge, the ability to get the complex message across clearly, and you have brought your audience a long way from thinking buying a house was a great idea and the thing that defined an Irish person.

    Now, step your game up or risk falling behind your audience

  42. Deco

    Excellent article.

    Top Notch.

    There is a mountain of dirt under the carpet. Sarko is sitting on top of it and smiling. His backers have been proven to be clueless at investment. So they have him as their representative, patching deals. It will all end in a disaster for the elite (or the elan) of France, with the loss of the AAA debt rating. Belgium still does not have a government. And Italy is led by a clown. The problem cannot be fixed by sticking more taxes on DE, NL, AT, FI, UK etc…and giving the money to Snr. Bean, Signor Bunga-Bunga, and the current holder of the Papandreou fiefdom. And in the middle we have a politician from a country that will divorce (Belgium) and a former PM of a country that is heading towards bankruptcy (Portugal).

    There is a core problem with governance in Europe. The EU, as an imperial project is going up a cul-de-sac, and the imperialists (or EU patriots to use Big Brute’s term) are leading the charge to get there sooner.

    Disaster, up ahead.

    • Dorothy Jones

      Deco; the fastidious sister has swept a fair bit under the carpet also over the years. She just hid it better….not for much longer though……

    • Adam Byrne

      How far ahead do you reckon Deco? David said the Troika deal would be ripped up within three weeks – about ten days ago. He might be on track still. It’s a long and torturous road though. Why can’t they just bite the bullet and put everyone out of their misery one way or another? Too many vested interests.

  43. goldbug

    FOLKS> THE BANKING SCAM IS COVER.

    WHAT IS MEANS IS .. WITCH HUNT

    POLITICOS WOULD THE POWER TO VIOLATE YOUR RIGHTS..INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS

    IF THEY SEE IT IN THE “PUBLIC INTEREST”…AND THINK IT IS “FAIR”

    THE INQUIRY CAN SUCK IN ALL INFORMATION ABOUT INDIVIDUALS…

    MCCARTHY COULD NOT CIRCUMVENT CONSTITUION.

    THE TEXT IS NEEDED TO REMOVES CHECKS AND BALANCE…AT THEIR DISCRETION.

    AMAZING IN A SCARY WAY.

  44. Will the real public please stand up? – We need Statesmen /women.

    He was born on 23rd of december 1918 in Germany/Hamburg. He is nearly 93 now, and recently stood a one hour lasting public broadcast that also discussed the events of the past few years. He was one of the greatest post war Statesmen Europe has seen, his name is Helmut Schmidt.

    I do not agree with all his decisions and political history, but I share more of his views expressed so eloquent and often ironic than I would disagree on.

    A man of political convictions, ethical standards, a sharp as can be thinking, despite his high age, his intellectual sword is as sharp as ever, and it is polished with the wisdom and experience of his age.

    In the social and political culture, best described as nepotism, that Ireland has practiced, there is no space for statesmen to be nourished and educated for future roles, on the contrary, the ground for such people to grow is poisoned and will not provide the nutrients required for great statesmen to come out of the public and help transforming this country. This nepotism has impoverished the political landscape of Ireland.

    The greater public is still in a state of shock and despair. A great lethargy has befallen this country, and the establishment is happy about it. A public scared, a public depressed and indifferent will not stop them in their tracks, and is easily manipulated.

    A public that could come straight of Franz Kafka’s castle. It is Kafka’s unfinished symphony, and perhaps his greatest humanistic work.

    The surrealism of this novel has turned into our reality. It’s main character’s name is just an abbreviation, K. on his quest of meaning in a social context, his motivations left open to the reader.

    The Castle governs, but the powers at it’s disposal remain a secret. The Castle’s officials are the Euro technocrats, and the individual national compliance managers, often referred to as governments. In Kafka’s novel the Castle remains the only source for meaning for K. and the villagers governed by the castle, and turned into an obsession with the castle itself.

    It turns into a hermeneutic problem and in consequence is a problem of ethical analysis. The reader will start to question K.’s judgement to continue his questioning of authority, and conclude that he might be better of to start a new life without asking all these questions. While it is true that K. will never understand the Castle, however, it remains a quest with ethical values.

    What will happen on November 2nd is the Castles decision, the villagers might be found in a pub, muttering and showing grim faces, but they will not do anything more than that. They are obsessed with the Castle itself.

    We live in Kafkaesque times.

    • redriversix

      The public will vote both referendums through because they are bewitched by Apathy and because they are not bothered to check out the facts.

      They are more concerned about day to day survival than anything else.

      I predict the lowest turnout in Presidential election history.

      I got a phone call from a Minister of State the other day to reprimand me for a email I had sent him.

      I was caught unawares as I expected a email response , I was stunned at the arrogance of this man and how confident he was in the Governments present determinatian to continue on its Austerity plan.

      While I was explaining the social pain being experienced by the citizens of this state , he interrupted me to tell me ,To “cut to the chase ”
      “If the people of Ireland Do not like what we are doing they can respond accordingly in the next election…….

      Today….I don’t give a fuck anymore..

      Maybe tomorrow will be better.

      • redriversix

        I did contact David on the above matter to ask his opinion.

        That’s why I did not name the minister in question.

        I did expect David to get back to me……Still can’t believe how naive I am sometimes…

        RR6

      • gizzy

        Great how brave he could be with four years left to run.

      • I had ‘the honor’ of meeting some of these puppets in my travels on a plain, and could never resists to give them a hard time.

        I remember how one of them was bragging about his trip to Kazakhstan, when he sat on the seat beside me, trying to make conversation.

        His first attempts were unsuccessful though as I new who he was and just ignored him. He looked over a couple of times, then extended his hand and introduced himself. I did not take the paw, just nodded and mumbled my name without looking up, still desperately ignoring this character beside me. He then could not hold it any longer….

        ‘Do you know who I am?’

        No!

        A card with his name and Political Party function appeared out of nowhere, and he must have expected me to be impressed, I looked at it, nodded and without a further word handed it back to him.

        Then he started to brag on about his trip, and at this point it was me who could not hold it any longer, and with a somewhat thundering not so subtle voice I expressed that I am certain that his political contribution would greatly enhance the wellbeing of Irish citizens by him having party with taxpayers funds in Kazakhstan, but if he would mind now to leave me alone with his waffle, as I am just back from a week of real hard work and could not care less if the emperor of China would sit in his seat instead telling me about his trip to Ireland.

        I still don’t know what might have triggered the laughter in the rows behind me.

  45. Should I be more worried in Alien Vs Predator mode re the runner with the sleazy brown paper bag/envelope, or the fact that a convicted fuel smuggler with links to Sinn Fein, now has a direct line to Martin McGuinness? I might ask Dana but could she be put under investigation for wasting precious police time?

    Confusing isn’t it:)

  46. gizzy

    THis is a Presedential Election when we should definitely vote for none of the above

    • Deco

      The office should be scrapped.

      Hand the Aras over AJ Chopra.

      It would be an honest reflection of reality.

      And it would save the people a fortune.

      • Deco

        Meant to say – hand the office over to AJ.

        On a truly objective viewpoint – he is less of a muppet than the current candidates.

      • Perhaps not scrapped altogether, I would suggest to put it on hold until the time Ireland has it’s sovereignty back and a government that is not reporting to and acting on behalf of the Castle, ahem, Brussels.

        • Deco

          Yep. Suspend it. It only applies if you are independent as a country. We ain’t. Lisbon and the Anglo nationalization sorted that out.

        • redriversix

          I think that is a fair comment Georg R.

          The Chinese will take down their flag over the Aras and the E.U headquarters in Brussels when their social/Democratic rescue plan has proved successful.

          Once their new version of “The Marshall Plan”has proved itself and they have completed their “Aid for resources”swap and Europe welcomes the introduction of China Military Aid to our lands.

          Collapse of N.A.T.O

          Ireland receives huge investment from China for Building of new Deep Sea ports in the west and to assist Ireland in extracting its Natural Mineral resources.

          Former U.S bases taken over to “police”social unrest and to allow China’s new “allies” to assimilate new doctrines.

          Iran agrees to accept China as priority client for Oil and Gas in return for scientists and Technical Assistance in R&D.

          America promotes a isolationist policy for its own continent. Break from European Allies.Attempts to Set up a new union with Mexico and south American Countries.

          America caught up in a protracted War in Africa and South Korea.

          Britain reeling from Chinese Military and “humanitarian” aid that has flooded Europe.

          U.N dissolved.
          Security Council dissolved.

          Russia in Major Military action against its former allies in Uzbekistan , Kazakhstan, etc.

          Pakistan invades Afghanistan.

          India signs “sole” trade agreement with China in return for Security agreements.

          We [Europe] will have new “trade agreements” with China.
          As they will be the [are] biggest consumer’s in the world.

          Circa 2021….? “just a thought”

          RR6

  47. redriversix

    Two EU meetings cancelled tomorrow
    26 / 10 / 11 .The 17 nation Eurogroup meeting and 27 finance ministers meeting cancelled.

    • Have they finally woken up to the Bernie Madoff EMU banking scam, the fountain of ‘complex fog’ number crunching hiding the truth of the real losses across the EMU?

      The scam the French are trying to leverage to bail out their own banks.

      I suspect they have.

      The only way to deal with this is full Chapter 11 default across the EMU.

      The same forensic auditing that was done on the Irish banks should be carried out across the EMU in a Chapter 11 style default based on the ability to pay.

      Forget the crap of extra leveraging of more debt through dodgy EFSF SPV CDO ponsi scamming?

      The ponsi scheme has to end now!

      If you see Kenny/Gilmore contagion trying to scam EMU by posting their banxter propaganda in Europe that Ireland is Europe’s poster boy based on dodgy CT IFSC tricks, switch off!

  48. It would be interesting how international sociologist might judge the process of the Irish Presidential Elections 2011 and what does it interpret the events to mean.

    I sense something terrible has been born .

    Stand Up the Real Sociologist reading this site and stop your academic note taking for a change and reveal whats happening to us .

    • This site is a reflection of the reactionary mindset that has Ireland in it’s grip.

      It does not take a lot to see that.

      The Presidentials, and most of all the candidates, they equally reflect that.

    • Deco

      Most people I know regard it as an absolute disaster.

      A few persistent party loyalists are supporting their candidate. But that is expected, and we are talking here about people that are too involved in it all to be called objective.

      Most people I know are completely unimpressed.

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