February 16, 2011

Before we sell the country we should ask the people

Posted in Banks · 251 comments ·

No wonder the Greeks are upset. Yesterday, the IMF and the EU were busy trying to limit the damage following their mission to Greece. One auditor, also the EC representative, Servaas Deroose, encouraged the Greeks to “sell beaches” to pay back the IMF/EU loan.

We should take heed, because we are next.

What would you be prepared to sell to pay back the IMF/EU deal, which is designed to bail out bank gamblers who punted on Anglo? The Aran Islands? Dogs Bay or maybe a big slice of Achill? The Rock of Cashel — that’d make a few quid.

Mr Deroose has revealed something about the thinking behind the IMF/EU loan and the sequence of events in Greece and Ireland as the EU Commission sees it. Bad enough to have a citizen of the most fiscally incontinent country in Europe — Belgium — lecture us on government excess, worse to have him indicate that the fire sale of state assets is the endgame.

So let’s get things straight: the Irish citizen is being asked to take on the debts of the European banks and pay for this by selling our assets for half nothing to the same banks so that we can bail them out. We take on debts without a discount and sell assets without a premium. At the moment these loans that we are being asked to pay are trading at a deep, deep discount because the “assets” they were supposed to back have collapsed in value. Yet we are being asked to pay for these loans at par.

At the same time, our crucial and profitable state utilities — like the ESB — will be sold at a discount because the buyers will know that the sellers are screwed.

This is what is going on. An organised heist, which will play out in front of our eyes and reward the very investment banks that blew their own and their clients’ money on the promises of David Drumm and the like. Meanwhile, our politicians argue over the rate of interest, begging for crumbs when they should be fighting for us.

Someone has to stop this because the words of the EU Commission in Greece are directed at us too.

Is there anything we can do?

Yes there is. Whatever you might think of some senior European politicians, they are democrats. They are bonded together by the vision of Jean Monet and Schuman — the founders of the EU. Central to this vision was the notion of forgiveness. When I studied at the College of Europe in Bruges, this message was articulated again and again. Europe was a family of nations and once you were in the family, the family treated you as an equal and no matter what your previous behaviour, there was always a chance of redemption.

This allowed Germany to recover after the War and it is the same attitude which is allowing Serbia, a country which orchestrated genocide in Bosnia less than two decades ago, to seek EU membership.

In short, there are many more democrats in European politics than there are central bankers.

There are many more elected politicians with a broad European view informed by history than there are unelected central bankers with a narrow monetary view.

We need to bring this battle to generous European politicians and wrestle the details out of the mean fingers of bureaucrats and central bankers who were never elected and have no mandate.

But how?

You put it to the people. The new government should put to a referendum the question of making any further payments from the citizens to the bank creditors. This would give the new government a clear democratic mandate with which to negotiate. There is no democrat in Europe who would oppose the will of the people and it would get straight to the point where the political economy bulldozes the financial economy. It would also give the Government huge authority on the biggest issue facing us all.

But can it be done?

Yes, article 27 of the Constitution governs the circumstances where a decision which is of “such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained”. Article 27 has never been used for this purpose but there is provision in the Constitution for a referendum on something which is simply so important that the people should be able to vote on it.

So it can be done, but is it now too late?

No, it is not too late for two reasons. The first is that if we do not stop paying out money to the bondholders, we will default on everything — sovereign debt and all — eventually. This would be a disaster for every Irish person. The second reason is that the situation is getting worse.

Behind our back, the Irish banks keep issuing government- backed paper in our name and this is happening on a daily basis, welding us ever tighter to the delinquent banks. This has to stop.

Since the last week of January, Irish banks have issued €18.35bn worth of government guaranteed debt. So the reliance of Irish banks on government guaranteed debt has risen from €16billion in mid-January to about €34billion today.

This debt is being issued to allow the banks to either (a) unwind their positions with the Irish Central Bank’s Emergency Liquidity Assistance (basically the printing of money by the CBI) or (b) boost their funding position ahead of the bank stress test that is currently being carried out by the Central Bank.

Of course, all of this bank stress-testing is missing the point. The stress test that is now needed is a stress test on the State. Instead of believing the politicians that the State will be able to pay €100bn to the banks and everything will be fine, we should test the numbers and see if that is actually possible.

But, of course, that test will not be carried out. Because a stress test of the Irish State would show the one thing that no politician is willing to admit — that the State is currently insolvent, and the Government guaranteeing another €18billion of debt only serves to make that problem worse.

One way to put a stop to this madness is by holding a referendum. If ever there was an issue of such national significance, this is it. The time for a popular plebiscite has come.

  1. adamabyss


    • alanredd

      Something has me truly perplexed. If Sinn Fein are saying more or less what David McWilliams is saying in regard to telling the Banks and the E.U. where to go surely the easiest and most logical way to get that message to every man woman and child in the country is to ring up the papers and support Sinn Fein’s policy or are we too concerned with our image?

      B.T.W. I’m a business owner and not a Sinn Fein supporter. Just can’t follow your logic.

      • paddyjones

        On Vincent Browne , John Gormley said the bank guarantee was the “David Mc Williams suggestion” I would like David to clarify this?????
        Now the ECB are on the hook for the lot and they are trying to unwind this. Securitisation is the current option on the table that means selling all mortgages to a third party for cash. i wonder who they would get to buy these assets? heavy discounts would apply there fore forcing more losses on the banks.

        • Sugglew

          David suggested a fixed period guarantee to learn which banks to let go at the end of the guarantee period. Not this perpetual suicide guarantee that was implemented.


          • shtove

            DMcW also had this to say in 2008, on this blog:

            David Mc Williams says:
            December 29, 2008 at 8:34 am

            Thanks as always for all the comments; let’s focus on 2009 for the next few weeks.

            Shtove I’ll just set out my stall re the banks. You are right, I was in full support of the guarantee but only as the beginning of a process, which when I spoke to the government I fully expected them to have the clarity and urgency to execute. Unfortunately, I was more than a bit niave.

            I expected them (1) to immediately go into the banks, sack the management in return for the guarantee on the basis that the lads who got us into this mess should be punished not rewarded and (2) to raise a much bigger recapitalisation fund to cover the expected bad debts of over Euro 20 billion that I expect to see.

            In addition, I believed that (3) a well capitalized “bad bank” needs to be set up and all the bad loans thrown in there. The bad bank would be paid for by the “saved” banks. (4) Land in these bad loans would then trade at deep discounts in a model similar to the Brady Bond mechanism which re-floated third world debts in the late 1980 and 1990s.

            (5)The reason the debts will be so high is that the de-leveraging process associated with the banks paring back their delinquent use of the wholesale money market to fund expansion will man a frightening tightening of credit here. The tighter the credit, the farther the fall in land prices.

            (6) The recapitalisation needs to have an upside in equity terms for the State as the banks are likely to recover somewhat, however, they should be viewed as utilities rather than growth stocks.

            Finally, the banks need to be forced to sell anything that has value and actively look for international partners/buyers.

            All the best, David

        • Deco

          On Vincent Browne , John Gormley said the bank guarantee was the “David Mc Williams suggestion”

          Typical statement from Gormless.

          The M3 was Dick Roche’s suggestion.
          Bailing out Anglo was Brian Cowen’s idea. (no mention at all of the fact that Dan Boyle wanted the banks all bailed out with his “the banks are too be saved before the factories” comment).
          The incinerator was Dublin city council’s idea.
          And of course the GP line on energy….

          The expensive electricity price is for your own good.

    • Steaf35

      Ya was kinda thinkin the same…..going to have a more in depth look at their economic policy; I know in my area they have a young candidate with a masters in Economics. Miriam didn’t give much thrift to some of these ideas this evening…..more RTE Pravda…!!

    • davybunyip

      do you mean a referendum like lisbon mark 2?where we voted the wrong way the first time. i think you are being naive if you think the political class, here and in the eu, will let us default on debt whether we have a citizens mandate or not.

      all 3 major political parties are very keen to be seen to be maintaining the status quo re eu/imf deal and only want to tinker at the edges of the deal. i would love to tell the eu/imf to stuff it but where then do we get the much needed money to recapitalize the banks? can we force them to take a debt for equity swap?

      i would find it hard to vote for sinn fein; a party better at taking money from banks than most.

    • juliehogan

      folk, is it just me or is anyone else feeling brainwashed by the media into thinking fine gael are our new government? which people are completing these ‘polls’? i could ask 100 random people this minute who they want in government.. fine gael not the answer!….SUPER SPIN at play me thinks

  2. wayneleone

    David, you need to be saying this on the likes of Vincent Browne otherwise not enough people will get the message. Seriously.

    • paddymc

      Sorry but we need a wider audience than VB


      Your scaring me now with your last posting “before we sell the country …….”

      any way to my point
      What we need s a good viral on you tube maybe the peoples economy cast on one video telling it like it is and emailed out from Ireland to any one who is remotely interested
      As it is all a bit fragmented links to each academics David’s website etc
      Just look at “Irishman abroad” how many of the Diaspora would want to “save” Ireland with just a signature
      1 million + views

      WE need the biggestIRISH joke of all time
      which in a surreal way this bank bailout is

      with one message & one address/ link
      like n earlier contibutor


      or similar
      or one link to Aras and Mary McUseless

      to follow upon then maybe further links to individual websites

      We need something like a super version of the ULA but both right and left on the same hymn sheet Shane Ross and Joe Higgins on one platform

      I’d pay too see that :-)

      I m sorry to see the low # of views on peoples economy so far but people are apathetic and need a wake up call and minister for hardship (showing my age now) or Irish Mother are clearly not working just as fintan o tools and other like mide petitions

      The people’s economy is too parochial / internal to Ireland if u don’t mind me saying.

      Constantine gurdiev listed on the vb show of all the leading economists/ financiers Stieglitz , Soros etc who agreed the deal was unfair for Ireland could they be roped in to help or allow their image ./ name to be used.

      At the moment people think SF are too far off the mark and Adams is hopeless on the economy and they think the Donegal lad is a newbie and wet behind the ears also it’s an Irish cultural thing to take the word of a stranger rather than one of your own

      If you tube can work for the Palestinians, Egyptians Tunisians etc we have to use it as well
      A good viral video going global with a link back to the referendum and we would soon get 1 million + views and hopefully signatures to match

      We need to get creative and internationalise this also get Portugal and Spanish/ Greek version language version
      Any way that’s my tuppence worth
      All I can say is I’m more fearful now for our future than before the election was called
      More power to your elbow

  3. Isn’t it it always the function of the IMF, to grab the Crown jewels out of a deliberately mismanaged Country? to give their cronies?
    What are the after in Ireland? Yes, the coast line and the natural resources which C.H. and R.B.”gave away” the grab it a 2nd time round now it is very valuable and then their will be the land grab for your so much heralded golden opportunity for agriculture (David you got this very wrong), this will be industrialised farming at it worst! Imagen, 400times more slurry ….. who will drink the water then?… the dead fishes… tourist? but they might even be not wanted Ireland will be the new Nigeria…. this is sad; aeh and Coillte will be gone before the ESB
    Their will be timber-ships like the Grain ships at the famine, going to IMF cronies The paddy’s will be left to freeze to death, as they can’t afford either oil or coal, so its time to go, or to fight.
    We still have a bit of road, before we hit the abyss and might be able to avoid it with luck and determination.
    But we have to make our voices heard, We cant wait!
    now is already late…..

  4. CitizenWhy

    Ah, so Germany wants to buy – dirt cheap – the Irish gas fields, is that it?

    • might be, but more likely is that C.H.+R.B. sold to the Yankees……….. they where exploring not the Germans…. And IMF is part of the Worldbank a mainly US manipulated tool…..

      • Deco

        Correction…the worldbank….a mainly Wall Street/Washington manipulated tool…..most ordinary americans are getting no benefit from the World Bank.

  5. David
    There will be no referendum as the result would not suit our paymasters in Europe. I attended an event in UCC where Pat Cox ex president of EU spoke to students. On the dangers their democratic vote being influenced by commentators such as David Mc Williams calling for a referendum on EU /IMF debt deal he stated it would be a futile exercise on an angry electorate.
    The EU had to have a 2nd shot on Lisbon and we bought the jobs line. The country has been sold. It is being packaged for delivery. Bertie with Coillte ,Shell get the gas free of charge,the loan book assets of AIB, BOI and all of NAMA will be given away against debts incurred.FG will Snip Nua our semi states, I think the bankers have demonstrated they more power than the european democrats.
    We will have our election and business as usual will continue until we finally sink. Unfortunately the 100,000 jobs and economic growth will not follow. By the time the economists of The Peoples Economy are listened to I think it will be too late.
    We will have a sovereign default. Maybe its time to plan for it instead of leaving it to happen like the IMF / EU episode.?

    • Sugglew

      I was very sad to read your post because what I was going to comment alludes to the same. It saddens me because such thoughts become all the more real when heard from someone else. I can no longer share David’s optimism and I fear this will end in conflict. The banking elite have revealed themselves in all their ugliness. They are more powerful than any government. The EU is either weaker than them and playing along or working with them. Even if such a referendum was held it would be rejected in the same manner that our Lisbon result was; by the vote of the 736 members of the EU parliament.

    • Deco

      Well, it is reassuring to see that Pat Cox is making sure that the people are policing themselves so that they do not do anything that might be in their best interests.

      Loyalty to the nEU empire.

      Speaking of which, where is Suds ?

      • Sugglew

        Cox is a vile liar isn’t he? Mary Robinson’s comments came somewhat as a shock though. It’s frightening that our most respected, supposedly free agent, in the world isn’t on our side. Again, I hope she speaks ignorance rather than agenda.


    • adamabyss

      At least Cameron has stopped the sale of forests in England, or so I’m led to believe by this story on BBC –


      I have been (relatively) impressed by Cameron so far.

      • Deco

        Cameron has a clear idea of what is in his country’s interest.

        Our muppets only seem to be thinking of their own careers, and maintaining the pretence.

        • persilschein

          The back-down was caused by massive online movement, with a petition of over half a million signatures.
          That’s what British people will do for trees.
          What do we do for our children?
          Cameron’s government proposed it, but people made them back down. So he has a clear idea of what his country is interested in rather than his country’s interest.

  6. —-Yes, article 27 of the Constitution governs the circumstances where a decision which is of “such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained”. Article 27 has never been used for this purpose but there is provision in the Constitution for a referendum on something which is simply so important that the people should be able to vote on it.—-

    I briefly spoke with a solicitor on the question of a referendum, he was convinced it can only be triggered by a majority vote in the Seanad or Parliament.

    I agree 100%, the people of Ireland should be asked.

    In the media fog and under the cover of the upcoming elections, they continue this Heist. This has to stop, time is running out quickly.

    • mulcahy


      The mass movement by the public in Iceland prevented their politicians going down the same path our politicians are trying to lead us.

      Alas, are we radical enough to march, kick & scream, and insist that this does not happen to us? We have an election with which to voice our opinion, but all I see are different candidates with the same options dressed up a little different. There is very little choice between them. The only party suggesting something anywhere near the Icelandic solution is SF. Why can’t the other parties grow a pair?

    • Deco

      Georg – well spotted.

      The establishment in Ireland, has a default policy of treating the rest of the population as sheep. Therefore, the population is rarely consulted. Consultation only takes place when absolutely necessary. And when consulted, a saturation level of propaganda is thrown at the people to ensure the “right” result. And if the “right” result is not recieved, then the people get instructed to vote again until the “right” result is generated.

      Article 27 is another embarrassment to our establishment with respect to their inadequacy for the job for which they are paid to perform.

  7. Thomas Cooke

    This situation is almost surreal isn’t it? Can anyone do simple maths anymore? It’s very frusrating to watch and listen to ordinarily sensible people choosing to ignore the obvious consequences of their actions. This countrys economy is a train wreck in painful slow motion.

  8. mulcahy

    Weren’t almost half the senior bondholders paid back in full in September 2010? All done very quietly without much noise so as not to get the attention of the Irish public.

    ECB short term overnight funding (or the lender of last resort) has been used to replace these repaid bonds, and also to replace the ever increasing withdrawn deposit holder funds, which have been hemorrhaging. Any meaningful default will now necessitate the default on this short term ECB funding, which the Irish politicians are loath to consider, hence their prevaricating on a bondholder default. It’s either that or we must do a sovereign default in the next couple of years, which is the worst of the two options.

    The EU held a gun to our head and our politicians succumbed, then paid back the bank bondholders (mostly European banks), and took the bailout deal. They presumed we had no leverage left with the EU. How about the leverage of exiting the Euro? Surely the EU would not have wanted to see this happen, especially given all the contagion fears at that point in time. This was our leverage.

    The best option now is to default on the remaining few bank bondholders, and the ECB funding, and then give them the bank equity if they wish. We then exit the Euro. We were never going to, and never will, be considered when monetary policy is being debated by the ECB. Our economy ticks differently then Germany & France and the ECB decisions will never be made with Ireland in mind, therefore the Euro for Ireland is flawed.

    I am in disbelief at what little options the politicians think we have. They are all pandering to the EU and singing off the same hymn sheet as FF.

    • Murchu

      I agree. As somebody noted, we are fighting for crumbs, and analogies to fiddling while Rome burns are not at all inappropriate.

      I believe we have more power though, than just the threat of meekly exiting the euro. The only thing the EU cares about is the stability of the EU, and is on this basis that our politicians should be negotiating with the EU.

      The power to destroy is a very powerful thing. If all the EU care about is protecting the EU, then we must show them how much we can potentially hurt them.

      “If you’ve got them by the balls their hearts and minds will follow”

  9. cmsaint

    If the next government propose a sale of ANY state assets then it is the civic duty of every citizen to go out on the streets and insist it not happen. Alas this will not happen as the people are to antipathetic. The only other hope is a hung Dail with as unstable a tail wagging the dog as possible.
    In a year or more another election will bring things closer to the bone as the level of suffering will have had time to work on the vast majority of the citizens of this unhappy little republic which has been so badly served by the politicians elected by the people for all the wrong reasons. Lets hope that the cold hand of reality has brought them to their senses by then and a mature choice will be both available and taken.

    • cmsaint

      oops, apathetic

    • The truth behind bord gais networks bord gais energy and esb is that they hold WAR CHESTS of cash for their own ends. They will not use it for the irish people because they feels its theirs and not ours. WRONG WRONG WRONG. The very time IRL needs help from these entities they only award themselves pay rises. Holy Christ..!!!! ive a mind to kick the proverbial out of the lot of them for the sheer disrespect to out flag. I have never been so let down by the way those bodies work and how they smugly laugh at all the electorate and say “be about your business”. I for one will enjoy the lot being stripped and no longer owning the market for their own game of monopoly. These boards have made themselves the modern day “untouchables”… God forgive me but i am so angry at how they have mocked the irish nation and all it stands for. Shame on you all….

  10. Mad angry crowds are also called mobs and you never get sense from a mob. We need a more accurate and correct method to make a decision. I expect more intelligent commentary from you david.. I agree with the rest of the article but your faith in the mob is very very misplaced and somewhat dangerous. I would ask why you feel the mob is best suited to this purpose when your education clearly dictates you know otherwise.
    The Irish nation is answering for its lazy slovenish carefree attitude over the years and now we are being called to account. Tough if the EU BANKRUPTS IRL INC. We clearly cannot be trusted in the EU and rightly so. We are a pathetic excuse of a nation and i would love to see a dictator take over this country and whip it it into shape and dispose of all the fat useless self pitying layabouts that call themselves “Oirish”. The buck stops here and its about time the Irish nation felt the brunt of it stupidity…
    There will be more about this to follow. I might add that i agree with many of the sentiments of the latest new political movement for change. All we need is a strong speaker with fire in his or her belly. About time we cast the losers who run many of our key state organisations to the wolves.. Tough love is what is needed in Ireland and i expect it would be very welcome from many quarters.. Over and out for the moment…

    • Who the Heck do you refer to when you talk about the Mob? AFAIK We are talking about Irish Citizens and not a bunch of whackjobs who burn cars and destroy private property in riots.

      • George: If only they would get up and do something but they are a useless mob without action,, Whinge and self pity and then when its time to act they all go quiet… Its not my turn its someone else’s..!!!! Pathetic…!!. It doesn’t surprise me though as Ireland was one of the few countries to remain neutral during the 2nd world war and hedge on the side of the Nazis. There is no national pride in this country and its identity is Guinness and leprechauns. Its no wonder the likes of Sinn Fein are gaining more support at 11% “holy god” when they are the only party about tackling the Govt for a bye election. They are fairly poor party but they went and did something tangible. “GET UP AND DO SOMETHING FOR GODS SAKE ANS STOP BEING VICTIMS”. Even if it is to riot BUT no thats all too much effort.

        • jbradyyvoir

          Yes and cheap insults of EU officals and Belgians do not help either. Why do you want a referendum when you have an election next week?.

    • The Egyptian People were not a mob. They took to the streets and they LOOKED AFTER EACH OTHER, even in the face of lethal gunfire and organised thugs…. they organised shelter, food, loos, medical services, watchs the lot.

      They prevented Agent Provocateurs from playing the ‘lets start a fight’ to create an excuse.

      Between the Residential School Systems abuses and the flaccid response of Government (3 reports out of 26 Dioscese, with one being delayed, in more than 10 years is a pathetic response and an abdication of duty of care) and the Irish Governments Ecomonic abuses, can’t you SEE what’s going on?

      A strong speaker with fire in his belly is pointless unless that person is a spokesman, a non-executive spokesman, who does not lead.

      The community has to meet, at the grass roots,and discuss these matters in some depth. The youth and the elderly must be included in this, and not condescended to. Honesty is key.

      That leadership has to be the ethic of what we, as a community, want to see, for ourselves, and our children.

      There are lots of really good people in Ireland, and while there is some confusion, due to lack of knoweldge – which can be addressed, it’s what the web, libraries and our mouths are for – and to slur them all by saying “The Irish nation is answering for its lazy slovenish carefree attitude over the years and now we are being called to account.” is both judgemental, and inaccurate. It is also VERY dangerous.

      This election will not resolve anything. A general strike afterwards, based on demanding that referenda occur, not only burning the bondholders, but on constitutional amendments that place participatory grass roots decision making at the very heart of Irish Governance,such that Governance is by the people, not by a poxy vote that confers that decision making power to men and women who can do as they please, is one possibility.

      Tis time for radical measures, for frankness and honesty.

      • yes time for peace and love and for us all to get along nicely and like sheep all dancing around the fire. The British have always maintained the philosophy and correctly so that in order to conquer a nation you need to divide and conquer. I am sure they didn’t write the book. ireland is constantly divided as we are a nation of tribes. We are always divided from within and only now that all counties are feeling the recession do we decide to wake up and join the debate. Too slow Too slow my friends. The revolution is over and we are all sitting around listening to the weather report on the dead state broadcaster..

    • coldblow

      When I think of mob rule or social chaos, this is what I think of:


  11. Anglo Irish

    We have to send a clear message to our politicians and to French and German taxpayers that

    1. We, the Irish people, will not pay for the private losses of European banks on their ill chosen investments in Irish Bank bonds. For the EU/ECB to insist otherwise runs contrary to the fundamental principles of capitalism and justice

    2. We will manage our public finances to close the government deficit to 3% or less by 2013

    3. We commit to the full repayment of the debt accumulated by government borrowing to finance the government deficit

    We need to make a physical demonstration in large numbers that emphasizes our society’s commitment to fight for a reasoned and fair resolution of Europe’s debt problem in the interests of Europe as a whole

    With an important EU Finance meeting at the end of March it strikes me that St. Patrick’s Day would be the ideal day to mobilize the population to demonstrate

  12. BnB

    The first part of the article is great, it explains perfectly what is really going on with the bailouts and why a referendum is needed.

    But then David starts singing the praises of EU politicians and saying how democratic they are. Has he forgotten what happened when Irish voters rejected the Nice and Lisbon treaties and when the French and Dutch voters rejected the European constitution (the template for Lisbon)? Was there a single prominent EU politician who supported democracy then?

  13. breltub

    I’ve come to believe corruption is the biggest inhibitor to society developing.

    I don’t believe in the state as an entity. It’s just another misguided human concept, a bit like God and any other entity we create that assumes power over our lives but is abused by others for self gain. The state is just another apparatus for control.

    I think most hard working people are probably able to give up between 20%-25% of their efforts to help the weak and vulnerable in society.
    If the state must exist it should only be allowed to do so in a controlled manner. Control is essential and if the state goes uncontrolled it is no better than the banks that were out of control, or previously the religious types, or subsequent to that communism or fascism. Personally I don’t mind giving over 20-25% of my earnings/effort to help healthcare/education/infrastructure.
    What I do mind is the state being able to take control of all taxes without having to take the responsibility for how they are spent/wasted. That list is endless on its misallocation of money.

    Once the state steps outside it’s responsibility of protecting the weak, then it is stepping on peoples freedom and infecting the lives of people with socialism and the arrogance of politicians telling people how they should live their lives and their money spent.

    Only by controlling the entities that we create can we really live in freedom. We work for them, or they work for us. Currently we work for them, and thus we are all slaves to a flawed system, for every system we create is flawed, only by managing its flaws can we fully reap the benefits!

    This election is to me just a sham!

    • Deco

      This election is a sham, alright. Because you end up voting for parties that obey dictats from IBEC and ICTU and the institutional, unreformable, completely disingenuous and greedy institutional state system.

  14. idij

    I hope you are right, but personally I don’t believe that the EU is remotely interested in democracy.

  15. persilschein

    So after the election, the debt will still be in place.
    What then?

  16. Good article David. Your heart is clearly in the right place but you are forgetting something. The Irish people had a referendum on Lisbon and they said no. Next they were told by these ‘democrats’ that they had obviously not been thinking straight so they presuaded Ireland to think again and get our minds straight. The Irish Government jumped to their masters tune and
    forced a second referendum. If our own elected politicians have no respect for the voice of the Irish people then why should we expect European politicians to be any different?

    The rhetoric being spun is that it was German and French banks that lent Ireland all this funny money but according to Max Keiser it was the Federal Reserve who illegally loaned out 100TN of American tax payers money to insider friends in banks all over the globe including the German and French banks. I am inclined to believe Keiser before I believe anyone in Ireland because he has one advantage in that he says exactly what he means and does it in language which ordinary
    people can understand

    These loans were all fraudulent and for this reason they could be declared null and void in legal terms
    but we know that if banks do something illegal and are in danger of ending up in court then they have the power to have the law changed in morning

    This is why the banks are always ten steps ahead of everyone else. Under the current rules of the game the house always wins – and make no mistake they are winning – and there is nothing people of countries like Ireland can do about it unless they change the rules. As you have been saying recently the bankers are just a small section of society but they wield enourmous power. If you want to change this then you need to think of ways to take that power away from them but in a conservative country like Ireland you are pissing into the wind hoping that things will change

    We are being fed a cock and bull story by tory politicians that they are going to renegotoate the
    ECB/IMF deal but this is nonsense designed as a smokescreen to get themselves elected. Today Joe Higgins asked 4 questions in the EU Parliament and Senor Barosso left half way through the meeting and his sidekick did not entertain the questions either. That is EU democracy for you David and it amazes me that you are still under the impression that we live in a true democracy

    Everyone has their faults, me included, but I think you try to speak the truth – as much as you are allowed to – but it is all in vain. Just look around you

    EU Commission fails to answer direct questions on renegotiation of the EU / IMF austerity programme


    • paddymc

      SO if the yanks loaned the money to europe was this an attempt to de stabilise the European project after ireland passed lisbon declan ganley didnt wok so lets make europe bankrupt ??its a all a bit jim Corr for me

    • coldblow

      Hi Paul. You rightly say that a rerun of Lisbon was forced. Do you agree that it was also right for our elite to force rerusn of the divorce and abortion referendums?

      • @coldblow
        I could not possibly comment. If someone wants to get divorced or a woman wants and abortion then it is none of my business. I have enough of my own troubles to worry about rather than tell others how to live their lives.

        It was max Keiser who said it and he has been dealing with this stuff since the 1980s. People like Bill Black and our own DMcW are among his many distinguished interviewees. Ireland is just not ready for people like Max Keiser and Jim Corr

        • coldblow


          I’m not looking for your pov in these other matters but I’m interested in the question of consistency about rerunning referendums. If it was undemocratic in the case of Lisbon would you agree that it was undemocratic in the other cases too? Just curious.

          • Hi Coldblow. If the government acts against the voice of the people then yes that is undemocratic but we are not living in a democracy as our host and most politicians naively imagine. Naivety can be an amusing, attractive and sometimes endearing quality but in these times of national trauma we need grown up independent voices who speak with conviction, truth and who answer to no man for spelling out the truth to a nation that is in dire need of education about how the world really works

            In a true democracy, if over 80% of the people polled voiced the opinion that the banks should be left to the natural forces of Capitalism, then politicians would be talking about this issue above all others and immediately put the matter to a referendum. They are merely servants whose job is to act in the interests of the nation and nations are owned by we the people and not by special interest groups passing envelopes to bent politicians

            Instead they become dictatorial, patronising and like they did with Lisbon 2 they invent scare stories to frighten the populace into submission, aka ‘the ATM machines will be empty in the morning if we let the banks fail’ boogieman tales perpetrated by the likes of FF and FG politicians who are seriously out of step with the notion of what is right and what is wrong. This is reinforced by the RTE thought factory and their advertising sponsors programming the nation and turning then stupid, docile and ignorant. This give rise to the question ‘can the people be trusted?’ because the polls are telling us that many people will vote against their own economic interests for sentimental reasons

            There has never been a greater need for a referendum than there is now. The Irish people have said no to the socialisation of bankers gambling losses and the economic rape of Ireland but like with Lisbon 2 they are telling us that we don’t know what is good for us and that we need time to ‘get our minds right’

            If this was a real democracy we would have a referendum to leave us in no doubt as to the will of the people and then send a team of serious negotiators to brussels to tell the European banking cartel to ‘get your minds right’

            The powers that be are scared of the people because they know that if they were forced to listen to the voice of the people then they would not like what they heard. Politicians have proved time and time again in Ireland that they will put the interests of the establishment before those of the people every time. Mother knows best

            I dont believe that we should have referendums every week on distractions like fox hunting, abortion, divorce etc because these are emotive side issues which pale into insignificance when compared to the real fight which is for the very for the economic survival of Ireland. We can have all the elections, referendums and debate we like but surely there will come a day when people here realise that there is no way to get this gorilla off our backs by using civil language and reasoned debate alone. The Irish will need to fight for what they are about to lose but still they live with a deep sense of denial, guilt and self loathing which is preventing them from growing a pair

            We could learn something from the Egyptian people who are in the process of breaking the chains of a dictatorial and detested police state
            but the first question to ask is how is it possible to mobilise such a large number of people from all walks of life into a mass action that has shaken the world and given hope to millions of opressed people around the world? There are plenty of people in Ireland who sneer at what the Egyptians are doing, through sheer jealousy I suspect, and we always need to be on the lookout for the enemies within becaase there are many of them and they would sell their own granny if there was a few pounds in it for them

            All Lisbon taught me was that referendums in Ireland are not worth jack

    • EDBernays

      Lets change this, I have created a site to do just that. Would you be willing to help?


  17. Dear Candidate,

    You obviously democratically wish to represent the people?

    Can you honestly say that you trust the people?

    If you do not trust them you cannot not in truth democratically represent them!

    But if you do trust them, and cherish them –
    Pledge now to give the people a referendum on the IMF/EU Bailout as per Article 27 of the Constitution.

    This is one of the most defining times in our history and the people must be given a direct choice about their future path.

    Politicians cannot assume a mandate on such a burning question!
    Were the Icelandic politicians wrong to trust the Icelandic people?

    If you now pledge to me to lobby for an immediate referendum then I will pledge to you my vote!

    To qualify place a public notice of your absolute intention to demand an immediate referendum. If you do this I will also convince four of my friends to vote for you and encourage them to get four of their friends to do likewise.

    I await the word of a true representative of the people.

    Your Sincerely

  18. BnB

    David mentions Serbia as an example of the EU’s positive attitude in helping European countries, but he reality is different.

    First the EU’s Nato members joined Bill Clinton in starting a war that bombed Serbia into submission over Kosovo. But that wasn’t enough. Then most of the EU governments supported the breakaway of Kosovo even after Serbia elected a pro-EU government. This is worse to Serbians than taking away Munster or Connaught would be to Ireland. Added to this, the Serbian pro-EU government has been unwilling or unable to stop corruption and poverty. As a result, earlier this month more than fifty thousand nationalists marched through Belgrade demanding a new government.

    As the situation gets worse in Ireland, don’t expect the EU leadership to offer any more help than it did to Serbia.

  19. Natty

    I cannot agree with this statement, “There is no democrat in Europe who would oppose the will of the people” Remember LISBON.
    We the Irish people rejected it. They the democratically elected politicians of Ireland refused our decision ! I agree 100% in a REFERENDUN on the so-called ‘Bailout’. But when we the Irish people reject it we will be told we are incompetent to decide. The only time we Irish people are Sovereign in the eys of fools in the Dail is when are in Sovereign debt. Far from being a Bailout ’tis a SELLOUT. Please, please David save us from ourselves

  20. Jargon

    We have 8 days left to force the goverment elect into committing to a referendum. Why is David not on Vincent Browne instead of a pathetic John Gormley??? Why is the word ‘Referendum’ not on the lips of every Irish person???


      Totally agree.Why are we not putting the wheels in motion to force this referendum through.Mary MacAleese should be sounded out on this issue,she should lend her voice to this issue and not just proceed to checkout with her retirement cheque.She is supposed to represent us and this is an emergency. Anyone have a direct line to her?

      “”" The President can convene a meeting of either or both Houses of the Oireachtas. Before doing so, the President must first consult with the Council of State.

      The President’s power to convene a meeting of either or both Houses of the Oireachtas has never been exercised. It might be used in an emergency situation.

      At the meeting of either or both Houses of the Oireachtas, the President may communicate a message or address on any matter of national or public importance. The message or address must first be approved by the Government. “”"

      • Deco

        the president is McUseless….

      • paddymc

        Good luck with that Mary Mc useless is not interested

        To: webmaster@president.ie
        Date: 06/12/2010 20:00
        Subject: Visitors Book from http://www.irlgov.ie/aras

        The following message was sent from the online form at http://www.irlgov.ie/aras/index.php?section=23:

        Address: co donegal
        Country: Ireland

        Comments: Mary please act as a true leader and do something useful for once. Put a stop to the theft of the Irish Nation by our incompetent gangsters in government – FF.
        I’ve not heard so much as an opinion on this from you so far.
        You are not representing the Irish people at all


        Date: Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:39 PM

        Subject: Re: Visitors Book from http://www.irlgov.ie/aras

        Dear Mr. Mc

        Thank you for your email of the 6 December, 2010 in regard to the current situation facing the country.

        The President fully understands your sense of concern and frustration arising from the present fiscal and financial difficulties. The President is very anxious to do whatever she can, within the terms of the Constitution, to encourage people in getting through these difficult times. In the coming days and months for example, she will avail of all opportunities to convey a sense of hope and confidence that Ireland has the collective capacity and determination to overcome the current challenges.

        Yours sincerely,

        Linda Hand

        8th Dec 2010

        Hello Mrs President

        Piety and patronising yes that’ll solve our problems.

        Now when the country needs leadership we have a fat disgrace of an
        eejit who cannot even control his own diet.

        Mary Robinson put a light in the window for the immigrants
        What are Ms Mc Aleese plans, go and wave them off at terminal 2 ?

        This is your watch Mary and the best we have seen so far is ?

        How do you want to be remembered???

        Keep taking the € 240,000 Mary god knows you need it just spare a
        Thought for families rearing waynes and paying bills on 10 % of that.
        and then explain why my children have to emigrate to pay for the debts
        of a private company like Anglo or AIB


        1. ( often initial capital letter ) the highest executive officer of a
        modern republic,

        Mary your more Resident than President of this banana republic.

        ”All of the great leaders have had one characteristic in common;
        it was the willingness to confront unequivocally the major anxiety of
        their people in their time.
        This, and not much else, is the essence of leadership

        I hope you can live up to your title

        End of correspondence

      • EDBernays

        DMCW4PRESIDENT, would you like to help?


    • persilschein

      no, we have longer. There is an EU summit on 24th March, a week after Paddy’s day.
      How about wearing yellow to show that the debt should be dropped off our backs? ‘Specially yellow for Paddy’s Day.

      The election is more like musical chairs on the Titanic.



    Áras an Uachtaráin,
    Phoenix Park,
    Dublin 8

    Tel +353 1 617 1000
    Fax +353 1 617 1001
    Lo Call 1890 430 430
    Webmaster webmaster@president.ie

    • paulmcd

      I have emailed the above address on a number of occasions but have not received so much as an acknowledgment.

      When you consider President McAleese’s salary and the number of assistants she must have at her disposal, I think it is, to put it mildly, “impolite” for her, or someone on her behalf, to respond.

      The message is CLEAR: She has her head buried firmly in the sand and there it will stay.

      • coldblow

        Pres. Mary “I don’t make the rules either” McAleese.

      • Deco

        “she has her head firmly in the sand”….
        Actually it is a case of “none are so blind as those who do not wish to see”.

        And this is because her snout is in the trough. She will get her kids into the elite in Dublin, etc… the usual superficial nonsense, social status, connections etc….


          Emailed her my concerns also on a few occasions and never even an acknowledgement of receipt of emails.

          What is even more annoying was when I read this on Dr.Constantin Gurdgiev trueeconomics bogspot,

          ” Enjoy the absolutely absurd outliers – the Appeals Commissioners – enjoying the total staff of 4 being paid, on average, 107,500 per annum. If one of these 4 employees a receptionist or staff worker, on, say 40,000 that would make the other 3 earning on average 130,000… that’s of course is a pure hypothetical. Then there’s the cost of our “International Cooperation” workers – hard at labour, the 190 employees here earn a meager wages of just 78,874 per annum on average. One can understand high earnings in highly professionally-concentrated services, such as for example the Attorney General (75,713 pa – still high, but we can give them a break), but what does the President’s Establishment do to earn on average (for its 22 staff) 67,955 – which is in excess of average earnings in ALL subcategories of employment reported in the table above?”

          Unfortunately can’t highlight it but if you read down you will see what her 22 staff are paid on average. This is a complete insult to Irish people.

  22. dwalsh

    If the Irish people are foolish enough to elect FG the fire-sale of our national assets will go ahead with vigour; and not just because of IMF debt-pressure…but for ideological reasons…neo-liberal idiot-ology.

    What is happening globally is the bankrupting of the nations as a prelude to the creation of a new global central banking system that will supersede national sovereignty and oversee national budgets — it’s already happening here. The oligarchs cannot impose the new global order so they are creating the circumstances that will force nations to ask for it. You may be sure the entire structure is already designed and ready to go…”here’s one I made earlier”. This is how they got rid of the aristocracies and the Ancien Regime; same modus operandi – bankruptcy. We are living through the twilight of the nation states folks.

    Perhaps it is not such a bad thing either; we need a new world order; that is we need to move to a truly integrated global civilisation and we need completely new systems of production and distribution; Our current systems (capitalism) are not viable going forward.

    This is world war 3. We were told to fear a nuclear war — no one expected an invisible war – an economic war. Soros et al are generals commanding financial weapons arrays that can attack any country with impunity and no one even notices. It is an act of war to attack a nation through its currency or its national fiscal needs or its industries. The attacks on Greece and Ireland and other nations are acts of war yet most people think its just business — destroying the livelihoods of millions of people is just business? Hello…is anybody home?

    This is the kind of ignorance that comes from believing the tv news and the newspapers.

    I waste my time. But I say it anyway.

    • Deco

      Our current system is not capitalism.
      If it was Anglo would have been allowed to fail.
      It is only capitalism with reference to those who are not connected to the state system. For the well connected, it is socialism.

      Politics is the system of patronage that means that those who provide something in exchange for access to the system, can direct the system to award them with resources taxed or levied out of others.

      Not just an Irish problem, but now a problem in most Western democracies. The system is intellectually bankrupt, because those at the top are those who have spent their lives belittling any exercise of restraint either personal or societal.

      • dwalsh

        @ Deco
        Yes all good points; and you are right – the global system is not capitalism in the text-book theoretical sense.
        However, the global system we have is what capitalism really is. That is to say capitalism produces an inevitable concentration of capital and power in the hands of a few and results in nominal democracies dominated and ruled by oligarchies.
        In other words Deco, the system we have is real capitalism – not the text-book ideal of capitalism.
        For instance the machinations of our local bankers and speculators to have their gambling losses paid by the Irish state is a triumph of the real capitalistic spirit. Do you think the men pulling-off this coup give a shit about text-book capitalism? No. They are driven by the genuine spirit of capitalism which is to maximise advantage and profit at any cost.

        • Deco

          Your questions remind me of this quotation…

          “And the great owners, who must lose their land in an upheaval, the great owners with access to history, with eyes to read history and to know the great fact: when property accumulates in too few hands it is taken away. And that companion fact: when a majority of the people are hungry and cold they will take by force what they need. And the little screaming fact that sounds through all history: repression works only to strengthen and knit the repressed.” – John Steinbeck – Grapes of Wrath

          What we have is scheming, deceit and leverage being used to control the market system for the benefit of the few, at cost to the man.

          Centralization of resources in the hands of a few private institutions, and centralization in the hands of a few public institutions. Is there a difference ? The rich control both schemes. The first through the banking system. The second by their control over the media. Both are delusions fed to the people.

          I am reminded of the Sherman Acts in the Us which aimed to break up control of the oligopolies. Eddie Hobbs showed used how oligopoly pricing works, and he was shafted. You rarely ever hear of him now. Seanie Fitz was outrged by what he did. It smashed the consensus. But IBEC and ICTU built up the consensus again.

          The one thing that the rich hate most is competition. And it somebody exposes market rigging, then this basically lifts the lid on what is going on.

          The rich do not want capitalism. They want control. And they are getting it.

          Google “anglo bondholders revealed” and then compare to media coverage of the members of the “list”….

          • dwalsh

            Seems to me we mostly agree with the proviso that I think real-world global capitalism (not the toy-town myth of butcher baker candlestick-maker)is the problem; and the answer must be some form of restriction on capital and power. We cannot leave it to the strong and the greedy to set the terms of the social order; and that is exactly what this global crisis is about. The financial markets were allowed set their own terms and their reckless greed has bankrupted the entire globe. And the capitalist oligarchs will now use the crisis to bring about changes in the world system to their own advantage.
            If a sport like soccer were conducted in the same manner that the financial sector has been there would no sport, no game; there would just be a general melee – a battle and disorder. Civilisation is the product of order; the only people who benefit form the disorder known as ‘free markets’ are those who speculate on the fluctuations. Ordinary folk benefit from stable social order and stable economies.

          • EDBernays

            Deco, Please come over to http://www.act27.com/ we need people like you

  23. wills


    I reckon the article s central thesis regarding the sale of indigenous asset wealth, that it may indeed surely, be the case, that the countries assets are indeed under serious threat now of a speedily ushered through garage sale and a subsequent sell off to foreign interests judging by what so far we have witnessed since the bursting of the property bubble and the aftermath.

    This outcome if it indeed it did materialize would be a natural next step in relation to the sequence of events which have unfolded since the blanket guarantee and its implementation and inception some time ago.

    Looking back at the links in the chain so far we’ve got the Celtic Tiger, the euro, the property bubble, the CDS insurance scam and its pyramid scam collapse and property bubble burst.

    Following on from this the instigators and insiders and crony networks and god knows who else desperate for a *get out of jail* free card scrambled for a getaway car and seemingly now it appears more and more clearly now that they indeed did find one.

    Back in the heat of the bubble aftermath furnace they decided to call upon David and tap him for his good foresight and insight and extract a solution idea. The *blanket guarantee* idea floated, could be bent into a shape and color of a different kind it was originally intended for and hey presto!

    Pinning the blame on David for been its conceptual originator they could then set about implementing. A sequence of events then followed on and we got NAMA – ANGLO – AUSTERITY – IMF and Lisbon Treaty.

    And now we are facing into the next stage in this unfolding saga. The sale on too foreign interests, the sale off of valuable assets owned by the Irish people, assets belonging to the citizens of Ireland irrespective of whatever else on the debts and ponzi scams and boys clubs wheeling and dealing.

    And Davids article is invoking Article 27 to try and cut the posse off at the pass in the next stage of the game play underway.

    And I reckon its fascinating how its all going to unravel.

  24. Mary Jenkins

    We don’t have to wait for permission to express the will of the people. Under the Lisbon Treaty one million citizens can present a proposal to the EU. This could include all Irish people in any part of Europe. This could be done immediately and would not cost a fortune. I Bet YOU could get more than 1 million Irish people to sign a petition!


    More participatory democracy
    There are already many ways in which European citizens can find out about and take part in the political process of the EU. The newest of these is the citizens’ initiative, whereby one million citizens, from any number of member countries, will be able to ask the Commission to present a proposal in any of the EU’s areas of responsibility. The practical details of this initiative will be worked out once the Treaty of Lisbon takes effect.
    The treaty also recognises the importance of consultation and dialogue with associations, civil society, workers and employers, churches and other non-denominational organisations.

    • Good idea and well done for trying. Thats the spirit…

    • paddymc

      Petitions we hve to supercharge ur efforts fintan o toole s new republic 13,000 + hardly an egyptian revoloution


      Your scaring me now with your last posting “before we sell the country …….”

      any way to my point
      What we need s a good viral on you tube maybe the peoples economy cast on one video telling it like it is and emailed out from Ireland to any one who is remotely interested
      As it is all a bit fragmented links to each academics David’s website etc
      Just look at “Irishman abroad” how many of the Diaspora would want to “save” Ireland with just a signature
      1 million + views

      WE need
      one message & one address/ link

      to follow upon then maybe further links to individual websites

      We need something like a super version of the ULA but both right and left on the same hymn sheet Shane Ross and Joe Higgins on one platform

      I’d pay too see that

      I m sorry to see the low # of views on peoples economy so far but people are apathetic and need a wake up call and minister for hardship (showing my age now) or Irish Mother are clearly not working just as fintan o tools and other like mide petitions

      The people’s economy is too parochial / internal to Ireland if u don’t mind me saying

      Constantine gurdiev listed on the vb show of all the leading economists/ financiers Stieglitz , Soros etc who agreed the deal was unfair for Ireland could they be roped in to help or allow their image ./ name to be used.

      At the moment people think SF are too far off the mark and Adams is hopeless on the economy and they think the Donegal lad is a newbie and wet behind the ears also it’s an Irish cultural thing to take the word of a stranger rather than one of your own

      If you tube can work for the Palestinians, Egyptians Tunisians etc we have to use it as well
      A good viral video going global with a link back to the referendum and we would soon get 1 million + views and hopefully signatures to match

      We need to get creative and internationalise this also get Portugal and Spanish/ Greek version language version
      Any way that’s my tuppence worth
      All I can say is I’m more fearful now for our future than before the election was called
      More power to your elbow

      • Deco

        If you tube can work for the Palestinians, Egyptians Tunisians etc we have to use it as well

        I agree. Except there is this stupid flawed legal concept called “a person’s right to good name and character”.

        It means that even if somebody is breaking the law, you cannot say that they are a crook. In case, they might sue you for damages.

        And then we have scenarios like Ivan Callelly where somebody can be removed from the Seanad, and he can sue those who removed him – with the taxpayer getting stuck with the bill.

        The answer is to circulate the video from outside of Ireland, and make sure that it cannot be correctly tracked back.

  25. Deco

    Well, the problem with such a scenario is that we will only be allowed to sell real assets.

    Therefore getting rid of RTE, and Montrose is not going to be allowed. Selling FAS is also a non-runner, because you could not find a customer. And forget about selling Dublin Airport for anything near what it cost.

    Interestingly enough, the UK government was intending to sell massive amounts of public forest land in Britain. There was a public consultation already on the issue. As a result of the public pressure, it has already been decided to set up a panel to investigate public concerns on the issue, and it looks as if it will be parked.

    No need for such diligence and probity here. Ditherer is arelady lining up to sell out on everybody. (again).

  26. Well any state asset or at least proports to be such that awards itself a pay rise in the depth of a recession and gives the public the 2 fingers at the same time deserves the chop and its no friend of ours. I refer to the ESB and they offer nothing to the state in awarding its chief exec €700,000 pa wages. We own it and we cant control it so its of no use to us at this stage so sell it and let those fat cats feel the weight of the new owners pen…
    They are billion euro cash rich companies that we own and get nothing out of. They can singlehandedly support ireland in her hour of need but they would rather line their own bank accounts and laugh at the rest of us. OFF WITH HIS HEAD I SAY…

  27. Deco

    Our politicians have completely ignored the Irish Constitution. They have rushed over each other to ignore it, to circumvent it, and to compromise it, so as to make Ireland a dominion of the nEU empire. All for their own political gain, and careerist ambition.

  28. Hi Folk use http://www.candidatewatch.ie to put questions to the candidates and see how many will reply to your questions….
    I havent got any answer to my question’s by any of the Candidates in Carlow Kilkenny
    posted the same question to most candidates in the constituency, it would be such a brilliant tool, but would our politicians declare publicly and in writing what the stand for???
    Still give them Question’s and let see what they answer….

  29. Jargon

    It would be interesting if TPE.com carried out a poll of it’s existing members asking ‘Would you vote for or against the bailout/burning the bond holders?’. Although the results may not be shocking it would atleast be progressive.

  30. murnblood

    OK I’m ready to do my bit, how do we get this petition rolling?

    • murnblood

      Nd whilst I,m at it I would like to get one on GM foods running along side it.
      We need to put it up to those IMF puppet masters Monsanto.
      Lets see if red c will put this one out

      This government would like to contaminate your food source and possibly poison you and your children.

      Do you agree-disagree-strongly-disagree-or have no opinion on this?

      Wonder what the results oft that poll would be?

  31. [...] Read more and readers comments at:  http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2011/02/16/before-we-sell-the-country-we-should-ask-the-people [...]

  32. Max Keiser:

    MK: The biggest problem Ireland has is RTE, the state broadcaster. David McWilliams can appear in a 100 theatres across the country and light up the stage with brilliant analysis and provocative insights into the financial mess Ireland finds itself. He can write books, host festivals and appear on dozens of TV shows. And all that work gets overshadowed by an act of omission by RTE who refuses to report on the financial rape of Ireland by crooks that should be in jail. Two years ago I was asked to appear on RTE. Leading up to the interview, while I was on hold waiting to be introduced, I was asked to give a summary of my views. I explained that an IMF bailout was coming if the country did not start to take these criminal bankers seriously. They reversed the invitation, hung up on me and have never called back. It’s a shame. When the end comes RTE will still be giving the farm reports and dandy stories of local cheese makers that could have been recorded 50 years ago and nobody will know the difference or care. Why anyone supports RTE is a mystery. Save your money and buy yourself a ticket out like so many are doing — due in large part — to RTE’s refusal to simply report the news in a responsible manner.

    • I agree with this opinion. RTE is not reflecting the peoples views. They are about 12 months behind the general populous. They have been telling us that “polls” show FF at 15% with brian cowen at its head for the last year and now that we are nearly on an election they are telling us that after a change of leader the party has dropped to 10% all of a sudden. Pure bull….. 1/3 hacked off their vote after they got rid of one of the most disliked leaders in modern history.. They only give air time reflective of the dail presence. In a forthcoming election the slate should be clean and all parties getting equal air time. How can you be reflective of the peoples new views if you give air time based on their previous elections views. The independents are looking at 14% of the vote and they definitely don’t get the same air time as FF do and thats a biased broadcaster. GOD this country needs a revolution if ever there was a need..

    • Deco

      Georg. I also agree with you and countsian concerning whta you have said. Thanks for posting your comment. RTE is getting away with behaviour bordering on criminal.

      Max Keiser is giving us a very interesting insight into what is really going on with RTE and the filtering that exists to prevent the wrong sort of opinions getting into the public domain.

      RTE are still behaving with the same arrogance of the pre-internet era, before stories could “go viral” in the internet, and explain what was really going on.

      • +1
        Deco the difference is like night and day and after watching a few episodes of the Max Keiser show most sane people’s opinion of RTE would be changed forever.

  33. slightly off topic… but…. I feel EVERY Politician, every Civil ‘Servant’, every County Council High Official thus far should be stripped of all pensions, benefits etc and their assets be examined and reduced to the level of the ‘average’ Irish citizen. They have allowed abuse to permeate every sector of our lives. They have caused harm and profound distress to many, mnay people.

    eg : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSDbFg1S1jU

    What every one carefully ignores is the human cost, the reality of lives of pain, the MEANING of that pain.

    To me that is what really matters.

  34. Don’t Ask Now Just LISTEN

    Full moon will be on Friday! Today, I came across one of those simple words, that give us food for thought if examined more closely: TRUST. The question: “How much do you trust?” is deep. In particular, if not only referred to a particular person, but to life in general and to normal course of events. It surely belongs to the more difficult tasks of life to continuously find trust. This does not only affect areas of faith, but also of hope.

    Maybe this is the reason, why it is one of those reassuring moments, when the moon whispers in our minds: “I am always there.”

  35. Partition of a Kingdom

    Have we ever wondered why in the Kerry Kingdom Healy Rae holds a swath of specific voters in south Kerry only and not the kingdom as a hole?

    Kerry was partitioned before the country was and the rebels went south and the conformist went/remained north .This has been the status quo since.Thus the reason why They in the deep south send an Ear to Dublin to be heard on a one to one basis .They do this because the system does not serve their specific needs so they adapt and create their own political methodology.And it works .And it leaves us all in awe of this arrangement on the national stage.

    Ryan Tubridys family were in those times rebels but unfortunately they were in the northern section of the Kingdom and in time they were ejected by the conformists ( Barney Bunch Cops ) and they crossed the Estuary to Kilrush in the darkness of the night without their possessions and remained there ever since.After The State was founded their involvement in politics began to flourish.

    Daniel O’ Connell ( a Rebel ) was only too well informed of the aspirations of the Rebels and its separatist culture and this ingrained in him the uniqueness of his language to talk up to The System that governed The nation then and to develope his unique oratory skills.It was from this mindset of the unique south Kerry partitionist that the Voice of the Rebels grew and grew and there was no RTE then preventing that happening.

    Have you ever counted the top legal eagles in the four courts that are from South Kerry ? They swarm the place .And of course they now/have lived in swanky parts of Dublin and their offspring walking tall in society in Dublin.Now go to Phoenix Park Garda HQ and the Central Bank and you will find hornets nests there.

    The Kerry coastlines have been planted by many nationalities and the French have predominated .In their assimilation they ingrained the classical Irish spoken in the Kerry venacular with the Bardic English of their northen conquerers.

    Oooo willye gimme oo vote ?

  36. French Correllation

    Ask most policemen in Paris where their family originally come from and they will tell you ‘ Corsica ‘ the rebel part of France.

  37. The Tubridy family were ejected as part seven families to Clare ( including the Kellys ) and were known as The Magnificant 7

  38. Mgt Thatcher grandmoother was a rebel from Adrigole Kerry and Mgt Thatchers son was part of the overthrow attempt in a small African Republic in recent years.So much for Jungle Politics and frightening when it is true.

  39. Deco

    Here is an economic perspective on the political process. It is titled “How to win an election”.


    Why are scoundrels successful in the political arena? Even if we recognize that morally corrupt individuals will seek to rule over others,[3] why do voters support such candidates? Would we not expect people to vote for morally upright candidates? Do corrupt candidates have an advantage over candidates with integrity?

    Reading this, I am coming to the conclusion that only Shane Ross type candidates holding the balance of power, and being the “tail that wags the dog” can bring about the improvement that we all need to see.

    Senator Ross is more honest about the role of IBEC and ICTU in having undue influence in the government process. IBEC and ICTU are consulted every day of the year. You, the citizen voter, reading this, will get consulted once every five years.

  40. Theresia G

    Our precious (and scarce) forests are next; please sign the woodland league petition:

  41. paddymc

    what about a mass Egyptian style protest / camp out on the grounds of the Aras / phoenix park with one demand a refereendum using article 27

    Lets by pass the poster boys the majority of whom are following the EU tune and take it to the top demanding mary mc aleese do something using article 27 or resign

    or being the apathetic bunch we are do we wait till the weather gets better

  42. Philip

    Just finished watching “The Chinese are coming”. The usual views were put across about how China was extending its influence across Africa, South America and how US manufacturing was decimated and how a trade war would plung us all back to a global recession – blah blah blah.

    What struck me was
    1) The “fear” of a Global Recession – which seemed utterly disconnected from the individuals on the ground.
    2) the abject failure of US (and EU) policy to keep economies rolling beyond hoping for the best with the so called info economy while China exported deflation.
    3) the sense that nationhood and duty of government to people and their environment was very very secondary to trade and profits for the rent takers. It was not just the africans or the brazilians or the americans who were being ripped off, you could see it in the way the individual chinese were being disenfranchised of their families and communities. Work hard…work hard!! do not worry!

    If the guy who suggested selling the beaches in Greece is still alive or was not hauled over the coals to make a public apology – it augers very very badly for the rest of Europe.

    Make no mistake, German people, French people are being ripped off in the same way. We are being leveraged against one another and the only lens we have to draw feedback on what is happening day to day is the media.

    The curse is we are a contented majority being boiled slowly like frogs. I am not sure if this is orchastrated deliberately. I believe it is a circumstance of the human condition which has now got out of hand courtesy of good communications and computing power. We are letting the worst elements of our nature being glossed over by the way we can offhandedly buy some bauble with no thought for the suffering behind it.

    Ireland is being caught in the wash – and we may indeed be the first to drown, but the rest will follow. I cannot see any way round this unless someone pulls the plug.

    • Deco

      { Make no mistake, German people, French people are being ripped off in the same way. We are being leveraged against one another and the only lens we have to draw feedback on what is happening day to day is the media.


      We are being fed a steady diet of “beer and circuses” to make sure that we are distracted to the point of being powerless and clueless.

      Welcome to an Imperial construct. The EU is now operating as an imperial construct. This has been the trend since 1992. Empires are not born overnight. They slide into existence with vested interests shoving political developments in a particular direction.

  43. atchman

    Good on you David – Now we are sucking Diesel

  44. paulmcd



    NAMA has welcomed the deal. ‘Based on the sale price achieved, all NAMA’s outlay – acquisition price and further investment – has been recovered,’ said NAMA chairman Frank Daly.

    ‘It is an excellent example of NAMA’s ability to enhance the value of its assets and will be seen as a positive sign for the Irish commercial property market,’ he added.

    There is no mention of whether a discount had been applied by NAMA at time of acquisition and the size of the discount, which the Taxpayer, of course, would have been obliged to cover.

    I suspect that executives at NAMA are promised BONUSES at some future date if sales realise a “profit”, and will therefore be incentivised to apply the maximum discount – forcing the Taxpayer to shoulder the maximum possible UP-FRONT burden – at the time of acquisition of assets.

    I trust that no profit will be recorded unless the sale of the asset in question covers DISCOUNT SHOULDERED BY TAXPAYER.

  45. coldblow

    David, I thought in an earlier article you said that you had no ideological reasons either to support or oppose privatization of public assets, which I took as being a pragmatic approach. You now appear to have moved to opposition side, which I welcome.

    Would these not just be bought by foreign banks or other agencies leveraging cheap dollars to provide the asking price, seeing as the US is printing with abandon? (See Michael Hudson.) And can’t we assume that any regulatory safeguards to protect the Irish consumer (ie citizen) will be, in practice, useless as usual?

    • coldblow

      “… you can now borrow money in America at one per cent…So you’d put down, say… a million dollars of your own money, borrow $99m of the bank’s money – that’s $100 million…”


    • The first wind turbine blade I built was from a piece of
      Georgian timber in baggot street.There are 1kwatt blades
      going up to about 11kw.Also the poles can be made from forest timber simply.Now that were poorer and might get our hands dirty.For money and jobs locally.

      • Hi Leon,
        Intriqued by your post. I’m very interested in the field of renewable energy and more importantly bringing it to the ordinary householder. (Possibly DIY) So you can see why your post pricked my ears. Possibly you can point me to some DIY or cheap solutions on turbines?

  46. paddymc


    Can yourself an other high pofile people, Ross higgins etc not ask for a meeting with mary mc aleese and at least put the question to here regarding referendum.

    she ignores odinary people and hides in the Aras but we cannot let her off the hook she has to deny or allow this

  47. Furrylugs

    You gave us a lot of insight into the Constitution on a few occassions .Have you anymore to add at this moment ?

    • I do John.
      And well done to our host for quoting the 27th.
      Now for the rest.

      Seventeenth Amendment of the Constitution Act, 1997
      [Provided that the confidentiality of discussions at meetings of the Government would be respected save only where the High Court, in certain specified circumstances, determined that disclosure should be made]

      We need to dump this one fairly rapid. It’s allowed the Narrowbacks to unilaterally decide what suits them and not let on to the rest of us. Open visible Government needed.

      Article 5

      Ireland is a sovereign, independent, democratic state.

      Et Tu Trichet and your self serving monetary expansionist plans. Young DMcW wants to know where Democracy fits in here?

      Article 6

      1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.

      Well Well Well, is that a fact? Back to A45 again.
      They’ve made a complete joke of the Constitution. When David quoted it the other night on Primetime, Miriam quoted “Cloud Cuckoo Land ” back at him.

      We’re so intellectually deficient, we don’t even understand the fundamental principal of having a written Constitution.
      We’re a White Nigeria and that’s insulting to Nigerians.
      The place is red rotten and we’re about to replace a Centre Right Government with another Centre Right Government just so Europe doesn’t get embarrassed about her Centre Right core.

      On y Vas les Wanquers

  48. Three words have been used recently relating to attaching blame to corrupt bankers :

    fiduciary duties

    subversive activities


  49. Default Express

    We have in the past spoken about :

    ‘it will come’

    afterwards we say :

    ‘it is comming ‘

    recently we say :

    ‘it is comming ‘

    now we say :

    ‘ it is arriving’

    soon we will say :

    ‘oh shit’

  50. [...] to this piece yesterday by David McDreamy, maverick analyst Max Keiser takes aim at Montrose on his website [...]

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