September 29, 2010

We must face reality - and end bank guarantee

Posted in Irish Independent · 236 comments ·

‘Define reality, face into it and do something about it’ — Jack Welch, CEO, GE

In 2001, I worked for Jack Welch, the legendary CEO of GE. He was on a book tour and I was his MC — asking the questions at events and teasing out ideas and experiences from the gnarled titan of corporate America. Welch was the hardest taskmaster I have every worked for, but it was worth every minute, every harsh word, every cold stare.

When we weren’t on stage, we chatted about all sorts of things and he was almost grandfatherly in these quieter moments. He was particularly keen to emphasise that crises define the person, the institution, the country.

He constantly referred to the fact that the crisis wasn’t the issue, rather how you react to the crisis and the fact that all of us experience crisis — whether in our business, social or personal lives. He told me that the most important thing to do was define exactly what the “reality” is — not as you’d like it to be, but as it is. Once you have defined reality, then he said you must face into it and meet the challenge by doing something about it. Ultimately, all crises pass; we all get through to the far side and, in most cases, the far side is a less intimidating place than we first expected.

However, the key is to define reality. Welch explained to me that if you don’t define the crisis, others will define it for you and then you play catch up and are on a hiding to nothing.

Think of our reality. Our reality is that our country is almost bankrupt and we will be unable to pay our bills. In practical terms, this is best evidenced by bond yields on Irish debt moving up to 6.99pc yesterday, a fraction shy of 7pc. Once bond yields hit 7pc, it’s curtains because the psychological impact of going above 7pc is that we are in Greek territory and there’s nothing to stop yields going higher.

The official reaction to this — rather than defining reality — has been to try to pin the blame on commentators and, worse still, to come out with the platitude that we have enough money already — at least to last us to next March. To say we have borrowed enough money to last us till next year is like two drunks at closing time when one lad says, “Don’t worry the night’s not over yet, I have a bag of cans stashed in the kitchen and a bottle of vodka behind the sofa”. Sorted so.

Reality is not being defined. The reality is that the Irish Government’s credibility is being contaminated by the banks. Today the guarantee should — according to the original plan — have lapsed and the banks should be left to deal with their own mess. The reason the guarantee was granted two years ago was to avoid a run on the banks in the chaos of autumn 2008. Then, once that was prevented, the Government could have seen which banks it was going to save and which it was going to let go. Clearly this would have involved using the clock ticking down to the end of the guarantee as an incentive for the creditors to come to the table and do a deal with the State. But instead of using the guarantee as a bargaining chip, it was used as a blanket bailout.

The reality of the Irish banking system was not defined and now the bond markets have defined it for us. Looking at the numbers, it is easy to see why we can’t pay the debts of the banks and any effort to do so will lead to the IMF marching through the door.

Let’s look at the reality. What I want to focus on here is the issue of re-mortgaging, equity release and the deluge of cash borrowed against houses, which made us feel richer but which was ultimately wasted. This is the reality and this is why we will default, because the money is gone. The internal default is what drives the external default, not the other way around. The ability of the Government to pay its debts is only the amalgamated ability of us to pay our debts. The “Irish sovereign”, as it is so grandly termed, is only the agglomeration of us.

The amount of outstanding mortgage debt at the start of January 2004 was €54.6bn. It is now €118bn. So mortgage lending went up by close to 120pc in five years.

It could be argued that there are many more houses in Ireland since the beginning of 2004, so maybe those numbers are not as bad as they seem — because at least we have houses on the other side of the balance sheet.

But this is not the case, because on the other side of the balance sheet are cars, second houses, fields, fancy kitchens, flat-screen TVs and holidays on the Algarve. This is what we borrowed for and we used our houses as a large ATM machine, and the banks eagerly facilitated.

At the beginning of 2004, 16pc of our housing stock (by value) was mortgaged; by mid-2010 that number stood at 39pc.

It is important to remember the majority of houses in the State are not mortgaged, or have very small mortgages on them. So a huge amount of the mortgage debt and the re-mortgaging is centred on a certain part of the population, which is likely to be young couples — the backbone of the society and the generation supposed to drag us out of the pit.

Their plight is now evident. Recent Central Bank data shows that of the €118bn in mortgages outstanding, €6.95bn are more than 90 days in arrears, with €4.8bn of those more than six months behind.

For these people in arrears (there are 36,620 of them) there is no way out, as property price falls mean that they cannot sell their property to relieve their debts (negative equity) and they cannot earn more money to pay off their debts (due to the economic collapse). Essentially, when these people most need money, they can’t get it.

So the financial markets are looking at the internal situation and concluding that — unlike the Greeks who had a government borrowing problem that became a banking crisis — we have a bank borrowing problem which has become a government problem. If the guarantee was lifted today, a huge part of the State’s burden would be lifted.

But that would mean defining reality and our leaders couldn’t do that.

  1. SM

    €36 billion into Anglo and 36 thousand people can’t pay their mortgage.

  2. ocallaghanr

    Is it not time to call a halt to the idiotic international monetary system that has no basis in material reality? It seems to me that to continue to operate with currencies that have no ties to actual physical resources is to continue to fool ourselves that the monopoly money we play with has a real value. The real reality is that if we do not do away with the imaginary capital that has evolved into money; if we continue to use a monetary system that is totally dislocated from the material resources of the planet, then all of our attempts to reverse the destructive effects of human industry will be in vain. Because, as far as I can see, very few people actually realise that the money they deal with every day does not actually constitute anything but their faith in a conceptual human system. Material sustainability in a physical reality cannot be achieved using imagination alone.

    • wills


      I reckon your point here is precisely part of the reality D is defining in article above.
      He is outlining a reality toward the end of the article which seems to me to be a critical analysis of a bank funneling out funny money only backed by housing stock value which was priced in never never land.

  3. Deco

    Lessons that Ireland is learning.

    A crack up boom always ends up in a crack up bust.

    A crack up boom is not to be confused with economic progress.

    Debt does not go away once it is incurred – until you pay it off.

    You do not et out of a financial hole by digging yourself deeper into debt.

    Having a bad management culture restricts a society’s ability to allocate resources productively.

    Social problems are not signs that of progress because we can afford them, they are signs of a society that is creating it’s own decline.

    You cannot progress a society, while driving it intellectually into the sewer.

    The dissenters are always the ones telling the truth, and the lemmings are always the people who end up supporting the liars who create the problems.

    There is more to education than getting a peice of paper from Belfield or Trinners.

    The media are compromised by our advertising sponsors.

    Having a drunk in charge does not help. In fact it only highlights Ireland destructive and abusive relationship with alcohol does cost the society.

    Government programs do not create sustainable jobs. The only serve to distract the populace.

    Eventually, people realise what is going on and the elite get sussed.

    There is no substitute for honest hard work. That means that all sorts of easy peasy schemes that are promised like ‘the knowledge economy’ are not going to prevent the need for honest hard work.

    Young people are gullible and can be coralled and herded to produce euphoric lemming surges like occurred in the housing price boom – in a country that is mostly empty.

    We are in a monetary union where we are a minor consideration when we have the potential to highlight big problems like Spain, and an irrelevancy the rest of the time.

    Those who are ‘cribbin, n’ moanen, and sittin on de fence’ manage to save their own neck and are correct in doing so.

    The leadership is useless, and this should be a consideration of the ordinary citizen in their individual financial planning.

    “Waste not, want not”. Ireland wasted, now Ireland is wanting all that was wasted.

    Truth is something you have to find out for yourself. You will not get it for free from useless Bank economists, useless politicians, or useless property sector insiders, or media concerns.

    • Deco

      There is no substitute for i) common sense ii) scepticism as to the motives of those in positions of power and authority, as tools for survival.

    • ouldbegrudger

      There’s going to be a General Election sooner or later. Please, everyone, only vote for the party that promises to introduce an iron-clad Public Service Ethics Bill – one with teeth and heavy sanctions. This “Constitutional Crisis”, for that is what it is, is a golden opportunity to clean up the Dail.

  4. joe sod

    is everyone distracted by anglo irish bank, in other words focussing on anglo allows people to ignore the other things wrong with ireland, things that have been wrong for years, and which anglos money has illuminated, its an easy scapegoat to prevent us looking at other things, excellence is not promoted in any area of irish life, we didn’t spend the money on any world class or interesting architecture, alot the stuff built in dublin was glass boxes, the convention centre looks ridiculous like a pint glass about to heel over. The only building that looks interesting is actually anglo irish banks abandoned headquarters with the cranes at each corner. Maybe we should preserve it as a monument because it looks interesting and actually has some history and meaning to it already, what about a bar and gardens for the top of it, maybe ressurect the ruins of nelsons pillar and incorporate it into it.

  5. Ravished By The Sheer Implausibility Of That Last Statement

    Is there any way that the identities of the Anglo Irish Bank bond holders can be put in the public domain, my main fear is that these people may have undue political influence and would be willing to see our Republic bankrupted in order to protect their liabilities. Can I ask the Gardi to investigate?
    Thank you for another stimulating article; and hopefully a stimulating debate( although I’d like to see some more contrarian viewpoints)
    P.S. EMMIGRATE IF YOU CAN (just realised I’m heartbroken by the mess we’ve gotten ourselves into)

    • joe sod

      maybe put an interpretive centre into it “history of ireland 1916 – 2016), isn’t the gpo being turned into a museum, why not anglo irish headquarters, by the way i think the ruins of nelsons pillar are in kilkenny castle

  6. paulmcd

    A 7.2% compound rate of interest would mean a doubling in cost over a period of 10 years exactly. (Using rule of 72).

    I listened to the Taoiseach earlier this evening using the figure 5%: he was assuming Anglo @ 30 bn € cost and a simple interest rate, resulting in 1.5 bn euros over a period of one year. His assumptions are unrealistic in present circumstances.

    For reasons I referred to in a previous comment we should calculate the cost at a compound rate:

    I am thinking of a business locally which was bought out of bankruptcy; but in my opinion is going back into bankruptcy under the new owners.

    Where are the billions in finance required to buy NAMA “assets” and other institutional assets going to come from?

    Are our bankrupt businesses going to become serial bankruptcies? I think this is bound to happen if bailouts are going to be financed primarily through additional impositions/taxes on the spending classes rather than on the wealth-accumulating classes, inducing ever-greater reluctance on the part of the spending classes to actually spend.

    Will the estimates for the cost of Anglo include an allowance for “rolling” bankruptcies?

    Will Anglo estimate include allowances for opportunity costs, interest payments, payments of coupons to bondholders if these latter payments are being continued?

    It would be reasonable to assume a compound interest rate cost of 6% per annum; and, if so, this means that whatever the nominal figure for Anglo losses this will need to be doubled if it takes an average of 12 years to dispose of assets.

    My estimate for Anglo alone is therefore far in excess of any figure likely to be disclosed on Thursday; and the highest figure I am aware of is the 39 billion euros estimate revealed on Vincent Browne’s Tonight programme where Alan Dukes said that this would be an absolutely worse case scenario.

    My estimate for the cost of the 32 bn euros of debt remaining with Anglo is 64 billion euros after 12 years – some assets will be disposed of within the 7-year period assumed by the Department, some will still be on the books in 20 years.

    An equivalent or higher costing should apply to loans which have been transferred to NAMA, implying an additional 60 to 70+ billion euros.

    My minimum costing therefore would be 130 billion euros over the “average” of 12 years Anglo “ASSET” duration on the books of respective agencies.

  7. wills


    I reckon this article is opening the banking wardrobe and oh look skeletons are falling out, one, two, three.

    What did the Irish spend the money on.

    Here is what I think.

    First group – babyboomers, spent the money on going ape shit on consumerism and stayed debt free.

    Second group – Bonos generation, spent the money on looking the bomb and managed to steer clear of deep debt.

    Third group – Generation x, spent the money on regular stuff like house car holiday and ran up an unhealthy debt.

    Forth group – Generation y, bought into the bubble hook line and sinker and are mortgaged to their necks in debt.

    So, the fourth group are the dead zone. Now, I reckon the fourth group compose of alot of shysters who had the chutzpah to know better and keep away from the bubble and those who felt frightened and intimidated by the endless media bull crap on prices will never come down and its not a bubble.

  8. We live in a funny world. I suggest we merge Scientology and Goldman ahd have them run a global government.

    Source: RegofinterestsSeanad2008

    Fine Gael Seanad Justice Spokesman Senator Eugene Regan:

    3. Directorships……………… Non-Executive:

    Goldman Sachs Global Opportunities Fund Offshore Limited;(25/05/2001)(Address: c/o Maples and Calder, Ugland House, South Church Street, P.O. Box 309, George Town, Grand Cayman, Cayman Islands, British West Indies)

    Goldman Sachs Funds Management SA (14/06/2001)/Goldman Sachs Funds SICAV I, Goldman Sachs Funds SICAV II, 49, Avenue JF Kennedy, L-1855 Luxembourg;
    Goldman Sachs Ireland, Hardwicke House, Hatch Street, Dublin 2;
    Goldman Sachs Funds Plc.; (24/08/2001)
    Goldman Sachs Global Alpha Fund Plc.; (16/11/2001)
    Goldman Sachs Global Alpha Lower Volatility Fund Plc.; (10/12/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Global Equity Long/Short Plc.; (28/11/2001)
    Goldman Sachs Global Equity Long/Short II Plc.; (25/03/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Global Equity Opportunities Fund Plc.; (28/03/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Global Relative Value Plc.; (28/11/2001)
    Goldman Sachs Global Relative Value II Plc.; (25/04/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Global Tactical Trading Plc.; (12/07/2001)
    Goldman Sachs Global Tactical Trading II Plc.; (09/06/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Global Tactical Trading III Plc.; (25/03/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Global Tactical Trading Institutional Plc.; (09/12/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund Portfolio Plc.; (13/05/2002)
    Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund Portfolio II Plc.; (09/06/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund Portfolio III Plc.; (25/03/04)
    Goldman Sachs Institutional Funds Plc.; (10/06/1999)
    Goldman Sachs Direct Strategies Fund Plc.; (22/04/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Hedge Fund Portfolio Institutional Plc.; (10/12/2003)
    Goldman Sachs Currency Trading Opportunities Fund Plc.; (24/06/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Fundamental Currency Fund Plc.; (24/06/2004)
    Goldman Sachs Fundamental Strategies Plc. (Formerly GS Global Event Driven Plc.); (28/11/2001);
    Goldman Sachs Fundamental Strategies II Plc. (Formerly GS Global Event Driven Plc.); (25/03/2004)

  9. Colin


    Great article and an even better TV performance on tonight with Vincent Browne earlier tonight. My TV has never seen or heard so much truth before. Take a bow Sommerville and Matthews, Our country need you! Many thanks to Vincent for arranging the show with the best 3 minds in the country.

    Is it just me or do you think Fionnan Sheehan is a gobshite? Does he wear a wig?

    • adamabyss

      The show was electric. It should be front page news tomorrow. But it won’t be. Did Vincent make David wear a tie for once just to fully emphasize the seriousness of the situation? I feel the country is just about to fall off a precipice into the abyss. What comes across strongest of all is that the government haven’t got the remotest clue what they are doing, nor have they ever, including during the boom as David mentioned. It’s frightening to be in the hands of these people. Brian Lenihan is just as big a plonker (and a corrupt liar) as the rest of his mates and they should all be in chains in Kilmainham Gaol.

      • DavidIreland

        No, we can’t put them in Kilmainham – that would allow their deluded supporters (24% according to the last poll God help us) to spoof on that they were patriots and martyrs. We need them to end up wherever we would have put the other enemies of the Irish nation McMurrough, Trevelyan and Cromwell. I suppose at least we live in a democracy and can vote them out of office nowadays – oops, I forgot, we can’t do that anymore either.

        • Deco

          The by-elections will take place “early next year”. I presume this means June 30th at the latest.

          In the meantime accroding to the constitution, two constituencies, (and possibly a third) are represented in the Dail, below their consitutional requirement.

          I am not sure if this invalidates all the legislation that was shoved through the Dail since Pat ‘the cope’ vacated his seat. But if it did invalidate that legislation, then thi would undo a lot of harm. Though money wasted never comes back.

    • Deco

      No, it’s not just you. He is keen on keeping this government in existence, that much I have figured.

    • seamus1972

      I watched the programme on the Net here in Aus just now, Fionnan came on right after the break and when he appeared in front of the screen I thought it was a sketch from Apres Match and the Frank Stapleton character!! Yes he is an amazing Gobshite, it was clear that he cannot stand David McWilliams for some reason, despite him being the only person in Ireland talking any sense! Oh, the poor Garda at the gates of Leinster House, it’s probably the only action he’s seen in his Garda life!

      Bottom line is that the economy in Ireland is screwed and Ireland is going to have to pay the hard way.

      Why is National Debt and Bank Debt seen as the same responsibility by the government? They are totally seperate. If Ireland was to get the creditors in a room and say tough luck as David suggests, how would the depositors be covered once the guarantee is finally allowed to lapse? Would the bill for the tax payer be soley the cost of the depositors funds?

  10. Julia

    Great article as usual David. Just watching you on Vincent Browne’s programme with Paul Sumerville and Peter Matthews. You’re the best looking of them all!
    Anyway, now that the Govt. is going to buy AIB for more than it is worth, maybe it is time for a new bank. I would suggest setting up a Grameen Bank. Grameen Bank was first set up in 1976 in Bangladesh by an inspired professor Muhammed Yunus in Chittagong University. This bank provides micro-finance for the very poor in rural Bangladesh. 90% of it’s shares are owned by it’s borrowers, 10% by the government. Consistently since the beginning, 97% of all loans have always been repayed in full. The borrowers are not required to complete forms in triplicate nor sign away their souls to obtain a loan, their word is their bond. The bank’s work is very labour intensive.
    Loan repayments are made regularly to a person collecting it at the door. If a borrower has difficulty repaying adjustments can be made to suit both parties. A begger on the street can borrow money for a project. SMEs all over Bangladesh have begun using Grameen Bank, children are put through school, houses are built. Grameen Bank operates without collateral and believes that credit is a human right.
    It operates with social as well as economic objectives. Also it is a humane bank. Bet you never thought you’d see those two words in the same sentance.
    One last thing. Grameen bank is operated by women and over 90% of it’s customers are women. Professor Yunus observed that women are more trustworthy and reliable than men when it comes to using borrowed money and repaying loans. They don’t go mad and double up the bets, or buy fast cars, boats and helicopters when they can’t afford them. They consistently use the money for the original purpose and also repay the loans. Is there a lesson here I wonder.
    Google Grameen Bank and you can read up to date financial reports and lots of other info. I can’t get as much information about my own credit union so easily and usually I can’t understand half the language used.

    Finally, Grameen bank makes you see really how absolutely disgraceful the Irish banks have been, how disgraceful the politicians have been, and how incredibly disgraceful the financial regulator, Mr. Neary has been.

    • uchrisn

      The European Investment Bank operates on a non-profit maximising basis and lends at close to the cost of borrowing. This year they have provided 150m in Itlay, 300m in France and other countries for micro finance. This money is ear marked for loans of 25,000 to 12m for SME’s and administered through local banks. Ireland wasn’t in there it should be trying to be and programs like this should be expanded. Practical suggestions like this are important to recovery.

    • seamus1972

      Hi Julia, I remember hearing about that bank and the person who started it won a noble prize for his troubles. I don’t think it would work in the western world but I do have another suggestion. I am originally from Wicklow, I have now lived in Melbourne Australia for the past 9 years. I have worked with a credit union here in that time and in Australia they are a REAL ALTERNATIVE to the bank. The reason for this is because they offer all the products and services that you can get from a bank but they are a credit union or co-operative therefore they are equally owned by all shareholders. For some reason in Ireland Credit Unions are still living in the dark ages and have not progressed. You cannot access your money through an ATM, you cannot get a mortgage from a credit union, therefore you have no choice but to conduct business with a bank. In the case of the credit union I work for, we have 88,000 members, almost all members don’t pay any fees and we simply take in money from depositors and lend this money out to borrowers. All profits that we earn get reinvested back into the organisation and all members directly benefit in lower or no fees. This is the return that the shareholder gets, not a dividend. I think the time has come for the credit unions of Ireland to step up to the mark and look at the Australian model of how to operate. If you had the same options in Ireland then I think there would be a huge influx of bank customers to the credit unions. If it can be done in Australia then it can be done in Ireland. At the moment credit unions in Ireland are as exposed as the banks as the majority of their funds are invested in the banks, they need to start lending this money out and have no exposure to the banks. Surely there is someone in Ireland that can get the ball rolling on this! I orignally worked in the lending area of our credit union, I recently moved into the marketing area and regularly speak to prospective new members. One of the things that I never tire of saying is that in our 36 year history and the thousands of mortgage loans that we would have lent out, we have NEVER repossesed a members home! How many banks out there can say the same thing! It’s time to ACT CREDIT UNIONS OF IRELAND!

      • Colin


        Good post. In the early part of the decade the Credit Unions wanted to modernise, but McCreevy refused to allow it.

    • slightlywild

      Colin I think is quite right. Fionnan Sheehan was talking a loud of BS. Wasn’t his wife a Fianna Fail candidate in the last election, or was she up for selection. Does anyone know. I don’t know how it works. Is Sheehan paid by the gobshite politicians to back them up, as well as independent newspapers. If so, maybe thats how he gets his so-called scoops. Does anyone know? When ever did knocking a bit a paint off a gate amount to criminal damage, and 24 hours in police custody; perhaps in Craggy island, but surely not in any democracy of any kind; modern or not. No wonder our gombeen leaders are the laughing stock of Europe. Perhaps, the Concrete One, should enter for election when it is called. Then he can park the feckin thing in the dail, and we can get some concrete leadership in the country.

      Great show, by the way, David and all. Best political commentary, I have seen in years.

    • slightlywild

      Julia, much of what you say is right and Professor Yunus is a great hero. Many of the woman in our present parliament are no better than the men. I mean we have the three marys; Coughlan, Harney and O’Rourke. Not being over religious, you would be better off saying three hail mary’s. Having met one of the three, I was very unimpressed. Then we had Olive Enright, who allegedly was claiming overnight accommodation for a room, as was her husband, who is also a TD for the same room for a long period of time. Then we have prospective Ivana B, who talked off the top of her head, can’t understand how she lectures anywhere, not known TCD. A lot of our esteemed professors, are pretty dumb, me thinks. Joan Burton and Lucinda Creighton have definate merit in my view. What we need is quality, and prudent men and a lot more women with your kinda of common sense and intelligence, Julia.

      Why do you think about going for election, Julia!

      I don’t think we really don’t need a president or senate, and if we do, there are plenty suitable people, who would do these jobs for free. Did IBEC and the unions support Mr Neary? I thought I was looking at some Groucho Marx sketch when I see that guy in Prime Time. Do IBEC have pansies?

      • Julia

        Go for election, you must be joking. I have a life. And I would’nt want to spend my time looking after people’s squeeky garden gates. I do wish there were more women in the Dáil. There ought to be a quota. People seem to misunderstand the purpose of quotas.
        A 40% quota of women would ensure that women, both good and bad would take part in the running of the country. Just like the men. How many ministers in todays government or in governments gone by can you say were really excellent in their ministries? Not many. And women might not be much better. But that is’nt the point of a quota. The quota would be there to wean people off the idea that only men can do the job. Then changes would come slowly and painfully. The men might be dragged kicking and screaming to the creches, forced to hold meetings at saner hours etc.

        Systems in the Dáil are not great. The committees started off with great fanfare years ago, but now apparently a TD goes in, makes his point and wanders off again straight away. What’s the point in that? Heads of quangos, community leaders, higher civil servants, important people, all turn up to these meetings to answer questions, discuss solutions and frequently the people’s elected representatives don’t bother to turn up or insult us by not listening. It’s no wonder the country is in a state of chassis. Is it any wonder that problems aren’t spotted until they are about to engulf us. Patrick Neary was allowed, nay, encouraged not to look too deeply into the workings of Anglo, AIB, Nationwide and all the others.
        What was the point of his job? He mut have been sitting at his desk twiddling his thumbs most of the time, making paper planes, walking around the corridors with a briefcase containing his lunch, speeding up occasionally and looking at his watch to give the impression he was busy. An easy boring pointless job. I think he was criminally negligent.
        I should point out that my expertise in this area comes from reading very little, I find that reading one book on a subject makes me a saineolaí and I can pontficate without fear of contradiction. God forbid I should read a second.
        Incidently someone from IBEC was on Newstalk today, or maybe RTE, and told us that some companies in Ireland are doing well and giving their workers payrises. Well done.

        • tony_murphy

          Sorry Julia, I totally disagree with your quota idea.

          There is nothing stopping 40%+ women getting elected as things stand.

          50% of population are women.

          Feminism gone crazy has ruined society in many ways. Its extremism. OK it can’t be blamed for the banking crisis, but I could point the finger at it for many other ills on society.

          • persilschein

            wubbish. Masculinism has been no good at fixing the world. Indeed, it has caused most of the problems in the world. If recent events have taught Society anything, surely it’s that emotion getting in the way of analysing events, so that you invent the answer, screws up everything. That the rules that apply to bonds apply to people, so that some types of people are not worth as much as others. That indentured service is no fun. We’re about to find that one out.

          • tony_murphy

            No it’s not wubbish

            I don’t believe in egalitarianism either, people are not equal, it goes against nature. An extreme example, someone who has never worked a day in their lives is not equal to someone who slogs their guts out day after day.

      • Julia

        Incidently, slightlywild, I would vote for Ivana Bacik any day. As good as any other politian and better than most.

        • seamus1972

          In fairness to the ladies, and being a man myself. I think that women in politics act exactly like men but probably because they are the minority. If there was an equal balance then maybe they would act more like women act and be more compassionate towards fellow man(woman)kind and the world would be a better place. We’ll never know for sure as long as man is the dominant sex in politics. Bottom line here is that F.F. have ruined Ireland and they are currently the team in place to try and fix the problem. Does anyone seriously think they are going to own up to their mistakes and be honest about things? Never! Every man & woman of 18 years and over need to vote at the next election (if there isn’t one before then) and get rid of this incompetent government. I honestly believe that the tipping point will be early December when the budget is handed down. It will have cuts of at least 4Billion or more and people will take to the streets and riot! It’s going to happen. How can Ireland support a 72 billion euro debt for failed banks? This is crazy. I would also advocate leaving EMU and taking back control of monetary policy! It’s time ti act, but as long as this government is in place, no right decisions will be made! I live in Melbourne Australia now (since 2001) and whenever I get homesick for Ireland I simply listen to 30 mins of the liveline and Joe Duffy, and that quickly fixes the problem! No more homesickness!!

  11. AndrewGMooney

    ‘Define reality, face into it and do something about it’ – Jack Welch, CEO, GE

    SM says:September 29, 2010 at 9:29 pm
    ‘€36 billion into Anglo and 36 thousand people can’t pay their mortgage.’

    Ah, but those 36000 people are not the important people who get to ‘define reality’. They are the ‘little people who pay taxes’ as Leona Helmsley famously said. Forced to ‘face up’ to a rigged reality whilst they are dealt with by draconian debt laws.

    The privilged ‘bondholder class’ carry on with their exorbitant priviliges, being bailed out for their oligarch-class act gambling:

    Charlie Munger even chimes in to chastise public
    ingratitude as ‘authentic spokesman’ for
    hard-nosed ‘free market capitalism’:

    Peter Sutherland, meanwhile, is in his pom-pom skirt cheering on the sidelines……

    2 years on from the mother of all bailouts: you couldn’t make it up.

    If you 36 with 2 kids with a mortgage Euro 200k underwater facing redundancy: Just how do you ‘face reality’ and ‘suck it up as Chalrie Munger advises?

  12. Slavery, properly so called, is the establishment of a right which gives to one man such a power over another as renders him absolute master of his life and fortune. The state of slavery is in its own nature bad. It is neither useful to the master nor to the slave; not to the slave, because he can do nothing through a motive of virtue; nor to the master, because by having an unlimited authority over his slaves he insensibly accustoms himself to the want of all moral virtues, and thence becomes fierce, hasty, severe, choleric, voluptuous, and cruel. …

    It only contributes to give a power and luxury to the citizens which they ought not to have.

    Charles de Secondat, Baron de Montesquieu
    L’esprit des lois – The Spirit of the Laws 1784 – XV Chapter 1

    x x x x

    Written during the age of enlightenment and reason,.

    We are being pushed backwards, backwards to the dark ages, leaving reason behind, introducing economic slavery instead, by our indoctrinated, fearful and captured governments that are no longer acting on behalf of the people as they became the vassals of Banksters, imposing violent measures against their own citizens.

    They steal the bread from your plate, they cut health services, impose austerity measure and lie at you about systemic banks, liquidity problems, functioning banking systems.

    In the past two years not once they spoke the truth, not the bankers, not the politicians, they are the architects of the new economic slavery, creating peasants, the vassals stay in power and keep reporting to the Lords….

    • There is no culture where economic relations are not subject to a regulating principle to protect interests involved.There is no culture where there are no principles of legality to which to appeal. There is no culture where there is no acceptance of certain final intellectual positions to which a dispute may be referred.

      When all these things are lacking there is no culture; there is in the strictest sense of the word, barbarism.

      Under Fascism there appears for the first time in Europe a type of man who does not want to give reasons or to be right, but simply shows himself resolved to impose his opinions.

      This is the new thing: the right not to be reasonable, the “reason of unreason.”

      Ortega y Gasset – Revolt of the Masses – 1930

    • Deco

      Georg – some very deep thinking there. Unfortunately, it is of relevance with this whole scenario unfolding of resources taken from those who toil, and given to those that rule.

  13. murray

    Well readers,
    Welcome to Slavery!
    How does it feel for you?

    Make sure you (the reader) take a good hard look
    at yourself in the mirror now.

    Then turn and look at you wife and your child
    and realise that their lives at not there own
    from now on in.

    I for one, had a enough of this shite from Fianna Fail
    and the Banking Scum!

    “Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.”
    Malcolm X

  14. “In 2001, I worked for Jack Welch, the legendary CEO of GE”

    That’s some strong opening comment.

    The only people that worked for Jack Welch were the the toughest, the most ruthless and the best.
    As opposed to “the most cunning and devious of them all”.
    Mickey Mouse.

    Some boast. The greatest Barrow Boy ever.Sold the country down the Swanee to feather his own nest.

    Reaping and sowing come hand in hand and we’re about to reap a whole crop of pure torture, all down to a clique of self serving blaggards, in the fullest sense of the word.

    A pity that Brian Linehan decided to join them last night with his Guarantee Nua.

    We’ll be roasted today on the markets.

    I’ll try to be a little more positive tomorrow but this shambles fails me.

  15. paddythepig

    It’s time for more cuts. The easiest way out of a bond market stranglehold is to stop going cap in hand to that market.

    At David’s ceili in his last article, how many of the audience were over-payed and under-productive in our public sector. Plenty I bet. If it wasn’t for the bond markets, these people wouldn’t be out drinking and splashing the cash. They should be thankful to the bond markets for the loan, but then they should take a look at their kids, and feel some remorse. The kids will pay for the ceili and the pints.

    Anglo is a disaster. But at least it focuses minds on the institutional and personal failings of this country, at all levels. That is a long-term positive.

    Recovery is always local to some degree, but must have an international dimension to be of maximum value to the economy. Reading poems and playing the bodhran to each other is not going to do it ; selling goods and services abroad is what will do it.

    The ‘golf club’ set have gotten a rough ride on this blog, and rightly so. We also are witnessing a new puritanism, where it seems to be frowned upon here if you take a drink, or watch a game of soccer. We need to be careful not to over-react.

    Two other sets have got away scott-free from comments here. One is the sheepskin brigade, who permeate our rugger clubs. They’re the insiders folks, in case anyone hasn’t noticed.

    The other is the GAA. A poster on the last blog very astutely mentioned being frozen out of a job because of the local GAA player getting the job instead. This practice is very Irish. This organisation is a kind of mafia, in that it looks after it’s own, especially if you can kick the ball over the bar, a job will be found for you regardless of whether you have a brain or not. Plenty of inter-county stars were rolled out to plug the ‘fine interest rate offered by the bank’ or to lend a helping hand towards flogging a few houses.

    The recovery will be more IDA than GAA.

    • adamabyss

      Don’t mind anyone drinking or watching soccer Paddy; just saying from my OWN point of view it’s a waste of my time and I’ve moved on. I still play soccer at the weekends for now, just one half-day for social and health reasons and also for the love of the actual original game, not the obscene pantomime we get on TV, corrupting children’s brains.

      • paddythepig

        that’s fair enough Adam. Going back to the soccer, and that infamous Ireland-France tie that is invoked from time-to-time on this blog as an example of a malaise in the Irish mentality ; well, I actually thought that the Ireland performance in Paris was really good, one of the most honest hard-working performances I’ve seen from any team in a long time. Some people seemed to have jumped on the bandwagon in terms of what happened in the political fallout from that tie, but I prefer to look at what happened on the pitch. It was really honest stuff from Ireland, Kevin Doyle put in one of the greatest ‘leading the line’ performances I’ve ever seen from a centre-forward (apart from his finishing). It was great to see. I like what Trap is doing ; he has got rid of the prima donnas and he is trusting the hard-working journeymen. That is refreshing. The country as a whole could learn something from Trap ; he doesnt put up with the Stephen Irelands of the world, and he’s right.

        • adamabyss

          It was a good performance alright Paddy but the performance in Dublin was sub-standard and that’s why we were drawing the match when France scored that dodgy goal, not winning.

          Regarding Doyle, he’s an honest player but he missed a sitter in the Paris match because he wouldn’t put his head where it hurt after a good cross from the right. Because of his hard work he gets a lot of deserved praise but he’ll have to improve his finishing drastically to be a top class player. He simply ‘bottles it’ (to borrow the great Roy Keane’s phrase – now there’s a man who never bottle anything) most of the time when he gets a chance. I’m always saying this to my pals and they get on my case for talking straight. Good luck to Doyle, hope he puts in the extra hours he needs and stays out of the celebrity nonsense. Robbie Keane (a man who HAS finished well for Ireland when called upon in big matches – most of the time) is from Tallaght. His Dublin 4 wife wouldn’t have spat on him if he wasn’t a celebrity and earning big bucks. Just shows you the hypocrisy in our society. Having said that they seem like a nice family and I hope he stays true to his wife and doesn’t follow the obscene example of most of the English national team players, like Rooney (a mostly Irish man) who has treated his family, friends and the children he is supposed to be a ‘role model’ to, like absolute crap. Anyway, from now on I don’t care. I’m tuned out – I don’t even know the Champions League results from this week and I don’t want to know – so no one tell me! I’ll watch the final though.

    • Deco

      So, let’s see there Paddy the Pig, your point is that Beer is not a problem in Ireland and one circus is much better than all the others. The evidence is that on both counts you are missing the point. I bet you miss the ‘beer and circuses’ Taoiseach. We have a beer Taoiseach in his place. Half the damage.

      Concerning Stephen Ireland – Stephen Ireland has a right to do whatever he wants with his own time. He has correctly figured out that there is more to life than providing circus entertainment for nothing, to a bunch of couch potatoes in the name of such pointless concepts as pride…etc…If want grown men running around the field for nothing, to provide you with entertainment, go and join those you despise in the GAA or the IRFU.

      You are a hypocrite. If people criticise ‘beer and cricuses’ then this is supposed to be puritanism. But Stephen Ireland is lambasted because he is not controlled by the needs of the lemming herd.

      Stephen Ireland’s right as an individual are far more important than the presumed rights of a collection of gobshites, over the indignation they feel because they feel ‘let down’ by him not conforming to their demands.

      Good on Stephen Ireland, doing the job that matters, providing for his own livelihood. He is providing a good example, by following his conscience, by dissenting from the mob mentality. The individual has rights which are more important than the depraved needs of the lemming mob. Yes, Stephen Ireland is an excellent example to the young people of Ireland. Put your job first.

      Adamabyss is correct. There is a difference between exercise which is positive, and euphoric involvement in pantomine, which dumbs everybody down from the real issue. It is important to know that.

  16. Deco

    The news this morning is not really about Anglo Banglo – it is about Ireland’s biggest bank, being taken over by the state. Constantin Gurdgiev has been proven correct. The State is going for a massive share of the economy. In one regard this is good, because the elites running the ISEQ are woefully incompetent. In another it is a disaster, because the clowns running the state are even more incompetent.

    Ireland has to deal with certain fundamental problems.
    Problems like the failed concept of Irish management culture, institutional overloading in the state, a failing work ethic, widespread waste of resources, an unsustainable and obscenely crass concept of lifestyle, overt sophistication (brand name bullshit), a tax system which punishes local initiative, bureacratic overkill, nepotism, cronyism, and “I’m alright Jack”.

    Ireland is meeting it’s reckoning. We have until January to sort all this out. And we have to sort this out for ourselves because the drunks, opportunists, liars, and pretenders in Kildare Street are not part of the solution, when they are part of the problem.

  17. Deco

    The elephant in the Euro-Zone.

    It baffles me how a country with 20% unemployment, massive “off-balance” sheet borrowing, and 3 million empty residential units can still claim to have it’s banking sector in good shape. These are all symptoms of a country that is financially stretched, and covering up a lot of bad bank debt.

  18. Limerick Leader : I am in Nice presently and there is an article on the ‘City Edition only’ of my reports on Irish Banks .I have not seen it yet.

    • Colin

      Anything to do with a small group of residents who veto plans to improve public transport by refusing to consider installing a bus lane outside their properties?

  19. ocallaghanr

    What is it about September in this country???

    September 1913
    by William Butler Yeats

    What need you, being come to sense,
    But fumble in a greasy till
    And add the halfpence to the pence
    And prayer to shivering prayer, until
    You have dried the marrow from the bone;
    For men were born to pray and save;
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Yet they were of a different kind,
    The names that stilled your childish play,
    They have gone about the world like wind,
    But little time had they to pray
    For whom the hangman’s rope was spun,
    And what, God help us, could they save?
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Was it for this the wild geese spread
    The grey wing upon every tide;
    For this that all that blood was shed,
    For this Edward Fitzgerald died,
    And Robert Emmet and Wolfe Tone,
    All that delirium of the brave?
    Romantic Ireland’s dead and gone,
    It’s with O’Leary in the grave.

    Yet could we turn the years again,
    And call those exiles as they were
    In all their loneliness and pain,
    You’d cry `Some woman’s yellow hair
    Has maddened every mother’s son’:
    They weighed so lightly what they gave.
    But let them be, they’re dead and gone,
    They’re with O’Leary in the grave.

    • Dorothy Jones

      +1 also

    • Deco

      Never mind Romantic Ireland, most of us would gladly settle for “honest dealing Ireland” if we could have it.

    • coldblow

      Quite good, but here’s a few suggested changes. I reckon it should make it onto the Leaving Cert. All names are fictitious.

      September 2010

      What need you, being come to sense,
      But grumble at the final bill
      You spent the euros and the cents
      It could come to half a mill.
      You bought the gaffs, the mercs, the phones,
      For men were born to spend not save.
      The dream is over, dead and gone,
      It’s with Anglo in the grave.

      Yet they were of a different kind,
      The names that stilled your childish play,
      They have gone about the world like wind,
      But little thought have they to pay
      For all the harm that they have done
      And why, God help us, should they pay?
      Ireland Inc. is dead and gone,
      It’s with Anglo in the grave.

      Was it for this grey geezers bled
      The country and its future white;
      For this that all the sh*te was said,
      For this Sean F***patrick lied,
      And the thieving b*stards, every one?
      All those houses all the same?
      Their money’s spent, it’s dead and gone
      Which means it’s in the Missus’ name.

      Yet could we turn the years again,
      And call those gombeens as they were
      In all their pomp and ill-got gains,
      You’d cry `A stirring in the air
      Has maddened every mother’s son’:
      They weighed so lightly what they stole.
      But let them be, the money’s gone,
      It’s down with Anglo in the hole.

      I write it out in a verse —
      Seanie, Fingers, Sneary, Clogging
      The Ditherer and the Drummer Boy
      Now and in time to be
      Wherever green is worn
      Are changed, changed utterly:
      A terrible booty is borne.

      • ocallaghanr

        And the prize goes to coldblow for his modern take on an Irish classic. As for the prize – A lifetime of debt slavery for your children!!! Congratulations!

        • coldblow

          Thanks! Debt slavery! Woah! A whole lifetime of it!! It’ll just be like old times…

          Now, perfectionist that I am, I’ll just change “A stirring” to “Castles in the air” and take the e off “borne”, add study notes and it’s onto the morket…

          Thanks to Yeatsy for the raw material for transmuting into Ort.

        • Deco

          Nah, we can do better than that.

          You prize is a weekend away in an exclusive resort on the Med, surrounded by the scoundrels who caused it, with bottles of plonk, a chance to practice your swing, Anglo golf balls, Anglo pullovers, and an Anglo umbrella (for the rainy day of course).

      • Coldblow,
        You’ve a gift for verse. Could you have a look at rejigging this in recognotion of Joe McNamaras protest at the Dáil?
        The county badly needs an Anthem to focus ordinary people into action.Good Man.

        • coldblow

          Hi Furrylugs. I agree with what you are saying but my computer can’t handle “streaming” (or I can’t handle my computer) so I never get to see any of these youtube links, so while I “know of” youtube I do not “know” youtube. And I ain’t no Homer neither, I just took a turn there and struck lucky with “grey geezers bled”.(!)

          As you well know, Colm (cbweb) is the man for lyrics in these parts (O Nama Boy?). The two of you would be the closest we have to Lennon & McCartney. Colm, cá bhfuil tú?! Maybe if I saw it written down, an “idea” or two might jump out.

          Something in the style of Brendan Shine but with expletives? (Do you want my old lorry washed down, you c*nts…) A Day in the Life (I read the news today oh boy, 10,000 loans in Moate and Mullingar, and though the loans are very small, now they know how many loans it takes to fill the Seanad and the Dáil) , Revolution No.35bn? (35 billion, 35 billion, 35 billion, 35 billion, 35 billion, 35 billion…) While My Ban-ker Gently Weeps? Or a medley “You never give me your money, you only give me your funny paper, and in the middle of negotiations, we break down… He came in through McWilliam’s window, protected by a silver spoon… Boy, you’re gonna carry that load, carry that load a long time… And in the end, the loans you take are equal to the loans… The President’s a very nice girl but she doesn’t have a lot to say…”

          This is going to bother me now.

          • coldblow

            Seriously Furry, if you or Colm feel like it, something like Those Were the Days My Friend, Wonderwall or Don’t Look Back in Anger might lend themselves.

            Now, if it was about Mary Mc then it would have to be Parklife by Blur: “I get up when I want, except on Wednesdays, when I get rudely awakened by the dustman (Parklife), I put my trousers on, have a cup of tea and think about writing a speech (Parklife), I feed the pigeons, I sometimes feed the poor people too, it gives me a sense of enormous wellbeing (Parklife) And then I’m happy for the rest of the day, safe in the knowledge there will always be a bit of my heart devoted to it. All the people, so many people, and they all go hand in hand, hand in hand through their … Parklife.” Sorry. I’ll just get my coat…

      • While we’re waiting for CBWeb to come back, here’s a reasonably funny parody on world banking etc,

        • With thanks to Paul Shanklin from the Rush Limbaugh Show in the States.


          Every breath you take
          Every cent you make
          No middle class tax-break, and you cant escape
          I’ll be taxing you

          Oh cant you see
          It belongs to me
          How my hands cant wait
          For every cent you make

          Everything I say
          Theres a price to pay
          And know every childs fate,in this bankrupt State
          Ill be taxing you

          Since I been here, I always get my way
          I talk of taxing the rich but I see your hollow face
          I look around and its your dough I can’t replace
          I’m so callous,your trust has been misplaced
          You keep crying Lenny, Lenny pleeeeaaaassssseeeeeeee.

          (Repeat 1st Verse)

          Every breathe you take
          Every cent you make
          No middle class tax-break, and you cant escape
          Ill be taxing you
          No middle-class tax break, and you can’t escape
          Ill be taxing you
          Ill be taxing you

          (Chorus) Repeat 2x

          Every breath you take
          Every cent you make
          No middle-class tax-break
          And you cant escape
          Everything I say
          Theres a price to pay
          And know every childs fate,in this bankrupt State
          Ill be taxing you

          • Do you want my old lorry as well?
            (In tribute to Joe McNamara )

            I’d a nice little patch and a small bit of land,
            And a place by the side of the sea,
            And I cared about no-one, because I believed,
            The Government would look after me.

            My peace is destroyed and I’m fairly annoyed,
            I’m taking the wagon to town,
            They told me that NAMA would stop all this drama,
            Do you want my old lorry as well?

            Do you want my old lorry as well, ye scrotes?
            Do you want my old lorry as well?
            I’ll park up in the Dáil to ask Fianna Fáil,
            Do you want my old lorry as well?

            The other day the old gangster from Anglo came by,
            I told him no money I had,
            Besides twasn’t fair for to ask me to pay,
            Since Lenny had sorted his mates.
            He felt discontent at not getting a cent,
            And he shook his big head in a frown,
            Says he, I’ll take half but says I with a laugh,
            Do you want my old lorry as well?


            Now the bankers look bashful when they go to court,
            They seem to look awfully shy,
            From the money they made, sure they seem half afraid,
            That the wife could on head away on the sly.
            But me I do things in a different way,
            I don’t give a nod or a frown,
            When I goes to court I says ‘Here goes for sport’,
            Do you want my old lorry as well? (Chorus)

          • coldblow

            Creditable efforts, Furry. We haven’t struck gold but it’s out there in them there hills. Spitting Image used the Police song once but didn’t need to change the words. The best I can do so far is for Mary Mac, which is a bit of a shame as she’s a decent skin and she did get up the snot of the D4 brigade when first elected by choosing to go to an Irish course in Donegal instead of attending the Dublin Horse Show.

            Anyway, just to get the damn thing out of my mind:

            “Áras” is a verbal condition, it’s a girl with a mission, otherwise known as… Parklife
            A manifestation of alienation from the affairs of the nation is also known as… Parklife
            Brian’s got brewer’s droop, he’s terrified of Morning Ireland so he’s looking for another bench to kip on… Parklife
            Who’s that gut-lord marching?(Oh, it’s you again, Taoiseach) You want to cut down on your porklife, mate. Get some exercise! Parklife

            All the people,
            So many people,
            And they all go hand in hand,
            Hand in hand through their… Parklife

            I get up when I want, except on Wednesdays, when I get rudely awakened by the dustman… Parklife
            I put my cardigan on, have a cup of tea, and think about writing another speech… Parklife
            I feed the pigeons, I sometimes feed the homeless too, it gives me a sense of enormous well-being… Parklife
            And then I’m happy for the rest of the day, safe in the knowledge there will always be a bit of my heart devoted to it… Parklife

            All the people, so many people…

            It’s got nothing to do with your knowledge economy, you know… Parklife
            And it’s not about you bloggers who go round and round and round and round…

  20. Welcome to Black Thursday, 30/09/10

    Looking back over my last post, last article, basing a simple arithmetic calculation upon Anglo loan exposure given 2 years back in 2008, I was able to predict the ‘so far’ Anglo losses to the Irish taxpayer at €35 bn. Two years of procrastination, obfuscation, deliberate ‘constructive ambiguity’, plain old lies, the government now agree with this approximate figure ‘approximately’.

    Today our government, Santa Clause, opened the parcel to tell us what present they are giving us for Christmas.

    You better like it. Brian (Baby Lenihan) has even reprimanded Pravda RTE for allowing all this talk go on about default for the past 2 years. So, no more of that! Reminds me of Mugabe’s quote ‘Some people are contriving ways and means of making us collapse.’

    Baby Lenihan has told us the story of the bank manager who is told the lender may default before the lender asks for money. But he has not told us the story of the bank manager who has squandered depositors money,that was borrowed irresponsibly and also lost.

    Should the bank manager be dug out with taxpayers money and allowed to lend again! Markets understand bad banks and know how they should be dealt with! Supporting them with taxpayers money is a ‘no’, ‘no’

    EMU are delighted the Rescue fund doesn’t have to be tapped to support the borrowings of Ireland Inc.
    Stooge Honan Central bank plan is to purge taxpayers in the coming budget; if he could get government to agree, he would like to layout a plan for a three year purge stall!

    Baby Lenihan is treating Irish taxpayers the same way Robert Mugabe treats white farmers. The cess pit of Anglo filled with the slurry of FF developers money, protected with chinese walls, its depositor money would if compromised ‘damage the Irish economy’.

    The arsonist that burnt the Irish economy, Anglo, must be protected at all costs by Ireland Inc’s very own Sheriff of Nottingham, Brian Lenihan. The senior bondholders who irresponsibly with no fiduciary responsibility fed the flames of Anglo should be protected also.

    Poor wee Brian, what should be done with him. Obviously he needs to be replaced immediately and told to go take care of his health. He is being totally irresponsible with that as well!

    Brian would be more suited to one of those small USSR states that existed prior to the Berlin Wall coming down. No criminal investigations into Anglo, no proper banking commission?

    Today is Black Thursday, not because of the ‘sofar’ losses at Anglo of €34 bn, but because taxpayers and Irish citizens, disenfranchised white farmers of Ireland Inc, are now hijacked by Baby Brian Lenihan, to pony up for the hidden depositor, bondholder debts of Anglo.

    Baby Brian milks Irish taxpayers for the losses of depositors in Anglo. How many of these are developers with dirty money ready to flow again to scrape bargains off the floor of the wreckage of Ireland Inc.

    As well as being very immature, I suspect our ‘Baby Brian’ really is not that very bright!

    Black Thursday saw ‘democracy’ go away in Ireland Inc! Welcome to bankocracy!

    “Meantime we shall express our darker purpose.”
    - William Shakespeare, King Lear, 1.1.36

    Could it possibly happen that Baby Brian and fellow stooges will purge €3 – €4 bn from Irish taxpayers next December from the budget, then go to international markets, say: look at us, we are great boyos, taxpayers love us for cutting their heads off and markets will respond by lowering bond spreads to around 4.4% ?

    Nah, Baby Brian, in spite of all your whining and whinging at your critics, it won’t happen like that.

    Its time for us all to say no to this pig slurry being heaped in Irish taxpayers by the three stooges, Silas MArner Honahan, KOwing the Unknowing and Baba Lenihan the Whine!

    Lets all try to get our democracy back!

  21. Malcolm McClure

    Okay. Lenihan has faced reality. At last. Here’s what the Germans think:

    The Anglo figure is pretty much as expected. Allied Irish is more unexpected, but the way they are going to inject it via the pension reserve fund is not actually going to affect the gross debt.”

    “We haven’t seen how they are going to reduce the deficit to 3 percent by 2014, which may be taken sceptically by the market. We need to see more details on that front.”

    “How you get to 3 percent from 12 percent (underlying budget deficit before bank rescue costs), that’s not an easy feat.”


  22. Good morning peasants!

    The Minister said there were no plans to impose losses on holders of senior debt in through legislative measures.

    “As far as senior bond holders are concerned, our law treats them the same as depositors.”


    • LENIHAN: “The alternative to that is to pursue this politics of delusion, of blaming others and for not taking responsibility for ourselves as a nation and a people.”

      How much more of this Bullshit will the Irish Nation take?

      How many more will they kill with the silent guns of austerity?

    • Deco

      Well, actually, Icelandic banks also found a way to deal with the English Court system and large deposits placed in Sterling.

      Is there a seperate jurisdiction with respect to banking, deposits and the Isle of Man ? Is there anybody present who understands why the Isle of Man is used by Irish speculators for tax ‘reduction’ purposes ?

      • Deco, that’s what they don’t want you to know, why we don’t have a proper commission of investigation. They were targeting English depositors much like the Icelandic banks were with exorbitant interest rates. How much of that depositor money is dirty, read earlier links Kathleen Barrington article on depositor money helicoptered out of the Isle of Mann to Austria and further sell on of Austrian bank.

        Big toxic septic tank now being paid for by Irish taxpayers!

    • Actually that article is wrong:

      “The British and Dutch governments then approached the Icelandic government and offered to lend it the money needed to pay the British and Dutch depositors the amounts called for by the EEA treaty. Although Iceland initially refused, it eventually agreed to these terms when it became obvious that nobody was going to deal with them until the matter was resolved. Iceland’s parliament — the Alþingi — passed a bill approving the deal in August 2009 but added provisions limiting the amount it would pay in a given year and calling for the loan to be written off if it was not paid off in twenty years.”

      Lots of depositor money from boroughs, educational institutions (even Oxford got burned )

      Note even:

      “the Alþingi — passed a bill approving the deal in August 2009 but added provisions limiting the amount it would pay in a given year and calling for the loan to be written off if it was not paid off in twenty years.”

      The notion that bondholders in English courts would pursue a case against Anglo I find hilarious. If in London, I would book a seat to observe proceedings for a good laugh!

      The notion we should pay Anglo senior bondholders in full is just beyond comprehension.

      Sorry, but we are beyond the bounds of idiocy here. This is financial LA LA Land.

      Time to watch ‘Disorder In The Court’, The Three Stooges.

      Perhaps one day we’ll see Honahan The Leprechaun, KOwing The Unknowing, And Baby Lenihan, don’t be talkin about defaults now in the gallery,

  23. A word about Ponzi Property Schemes:

    “Lay was so impressed with Skilling’s genius that he created a new division in 1990 called Enron Finance Corp. and hired Skilling to run it. Under Skilling’s leadership, Enron Finance Corp. soon dominated the market for natural gas contracts, with more contacts, more access to supplies and more customers than any of its competitors. With its market power, Enron could predict future prices with great accuracy, thereby guaranteeing superior profits.”

    The secret of Enron was ‘mark to market’ being able to manipulate and predict market prices by cornering the supply and artificially creating bubbles.

    This was not very different from Anglos LTV Loan to Value. Give enough loans out to enough people, they people compete and drive the price up. Property values would increase of their own accord.

    Using a 73% LTV Anglo could justify giving out loans based on a rising market value of fields that by its own lending practices it had artificially enduced the value of.

    The value of the field this year was € 1 ml, selling like hot cakes, next year worth €2 ml, because of how easy it was to get croney loans.

    Anglo using LTV was prepared to lend €2 ml based on ‘Current’ Loan to Value of approx 75%, so if local auctioneer said it was worth, three quarters or €1.5, the requested €2 ml money handed over. We are not talking PH D economics here. This is simple common sense property scam arithmetic.

    No brakes applied by government, foot on accelerator, ‘wee, wee all the way home’ tax incentive schemes.

    This was purely property related as there was no surge in manufacturing, no surge due to discovery of commodity resources, such as oil or gas, multinational exports helping but not sufficient or near an explanation for soaring property prices.

    We do need proper accountability and responsibility and a proper investigation into our banks. Anglo bondholders who facilitated this scam who did not exercise fiduciary responsibility should be burned, bankers should be punished as well, government should be sent into exile to some banana republic in Africa, suggest Uganda, where they would be a lot more at home.

    Enlightened economies such as Belgium have conservative lending practices requiring 30/40% of the loan put down by the borrower on any purchase. We gave out 100% loans to developers on non existing ‘personal guarantees’. Other economies in Europe adopt safety valve cushions such as Denmarks
    smart mortgaqe bonds with borrowings up to 80% LTV read here:

    Anglo was a cess pool scam run by croney cowboys aided by an incompetent banana republic government!

    Taxpayers should refuse to pay for it!

    • Deco

      There is a massive grey area between NAMA and the banks regarding the concept of valuation.

      It is pure optics. Basically, you have one arm of the state sector, namely the banks swapping money for “assets” (which have no market) with another arm of the state, NAMA.

      The real concern, is the market value, and this accounting trick to pretend that the market does not matter, is nonsensical.

      It seems that IBEC are not hopping up and down in excitement over the fact that the market is not left to it’s own devices. Oh, just remembered. IBEC are only keen on the market when it flows all one way, their way.

      I actually blame this mess primarily on the real government of Ireland, IBEC.


    How long will it take for the population to fall below 4 million? At least there wont be any triumphalism in 2016, Ian PAISLEY was right about the 26 counties, paedo priests, inept cute hoors running the show etc.

    • Deco

      Nah, Paisley doesn’t know the half of it….

    • Harper66

      “At least there wont be any triumphalism in 2016..” With respect if we had a little more of what they had back in 1916 we wouldnt be in this position right now.

      On a second point if Mr. Paisley is lookinig for corruption he could look a little closer to home.

      • Colin

        What little corruption there is in the North does not result in turning the people of the North into debt slaves. That is the crucial difference.

        Paisley must be having a good old laugh at us down here, I certainly would be if I was Paisley.

  25. mrlennyman

    Get to the streets – organise protests – this cannot go on like this – How long are we going to take this? We complain about the way things are being handled, yet where is the voice? Where are the leaders of a new revolution? Where is there somebody to stand uo and ay “Enough, you shower of fucks – give us back our lives, our money our identity”. This has to stop. Stand up and fight. Take it to the tarmac….

  26. Art1980

    There must be more to Anglo than meets the eye. Anglo for all purposes was a business bank with the high majority of it’s lending book to developers/ speculators and the likes not only in this country. Seemly it’s Isle of Man branch had one customer which accounted for 60% of that branch’s loan book. So again not a retail bank (no ATM’s!) a private business bank.

    Now it’s part of the banking system so yes at the start it was probably right to guarantee depositors and avoid a run on the banks. But over the course of time wind it down, liquidate the fooking thing (If we took say 5b Irish debt bondholder associated and gave them 10 cent to the €, that would give the state a 4.5b saving which would equate to the up coming budget and more) and let the bondholders take a hit on their investment. Why the state/ taxpayer is being held accountably for a private company is crazy (35billion with a working population of say 2 million!!!). You think if Quinn Insurance or CHR went bust we’d be picking up the tab – nonsense. Now Anglo been that business bank paying the highest interest rate for deposit here’s the thing – what if a lot of the Multi Nationals (Dublin/ IFSC has the second biggest pool of money in the world based here) had millions sitting on deposit in Anglo – you reckon those powers will let Anglo sink/liquidate? There is more behind the scenes I’m sure.

    • Deco

      The plot is getting thicker. Who is the customer accounting for 60% of the Anglo loan book in the Isle of Man ? Are his loans in Euros, Sterling, or something else ? What is the collateral that exists against these laons ?

      • adamabyss

        I was just reading what was being said in the last article about this connection between the deposits in the Anglo branch of the Isle of Man and some well-connected people in Ireland, both tax resident and in some cases “not”.
        Something has been bothering me for some time about all this and maybe some of the people on this site can clear it up for me.

        When I was living in the Caribbean I remember reading roughly two or three years ago about all these Irish Companies who were making loads of money but yet they were changing their Company status from limited to unlimited, which meant that they did not have to publish accounts at the Companies Office and I later found out that these Companies became subsidiaries of Companies on the Isle of Man which had limited liability.

        I asked a new friend I met at College the other day what he thought of this and his take was that these people were doing this because they did not want the locals to know where they were hiding their money!

        P.S. and NO before anybody asks, I don’t know anything about AIB’s share dealings etc., offshore on the Island of Nevis in the Caribbean. I did not live on that Island.

  27. [...] David McWilliams writes on the defining realities we are all now faced with today:  WE MUST FACE REALITY — AND END BANK GUARANTEE | David McWilliams [...]

  28. Deco

    Somebody with conviction, leadership, courage, and honesty found on Kildare Street. Don’t worry – it is not a politician. Though he is electable.

    98 FM have a produced a song called “Truck Off” in his honour.

  29. KOwing on News At One

    “We will have fewer working in the public service over time..”

    “We as a country want to control our own affairs”

    Who is the “We”

    He was asked re accountability/responsibility

    “At no stage was it brought to my attention by the independent authorities that we had a crisis of this magnitude”

    The cronies were too busy milking the elephants! Enough of me listening to this joker. Enough said. Look forward to David’s next article.

    Slán libh!

    • Deco

      In future, in order make sure that this even does not happen again, we will employ economists to serve behind the counter in pubs where politicians are located. This way, we will be able to alert them that there is a problem with the economy in the works.

      Typical lawyer answers to the questions…

  30. murray

    34,000,000,000 euros =
    A euro for every time Fianna Fail told a lie!

    Bertie (Fianna Fail – King Terrorist),
    I have to hand it to you.
    You got away with it.

    “We are not going to apologise for any small role,
    we may have played in helping to remove a dictator who made his people suffer for 20 years,
    carried out horrific acts and didn’t care about democracy.
    He is gone now, and thank God for that.”

    Bertie Ahern
    May 2003 –
    speaking of the war in Iraq and the use of Shannon Airport for US military stopovers.

  31. paddyjones

    I just dont believe the 30 billion figure for Anglo, on a cost benefit analysis it is much higher when you consider the extra cost of interest on borrowing.
    It was all built on property and prices are still falling so expect losses to rise as will bond interest.
    The next question is how much will the cuts be in December, I will suggest that it will be carnage with our current deficit to be 30%.
    I for one will look to emigrate as I dont see a future in this country. It will not be long now until the EU/IMF come in especially with the anouncement today that they will halt bond issueance.
    So emigration any ideas as to where to go?

    • mishco

      South Korea – join me and many others in teaching English in a country with an ex-engineer as President and a people who believe in hard work and education!

    • Black Cat

      Are the canadians picky about who they take I wonder – my friend’s relatives moved there from the north of england and looking at their family photographs their quality of life as improved 100% compared to the drab northern town they originated from.
      Does an english passport qualify as part of the commonwealth or are they looking for particular types of professionals?

  32. coldblow

    I just read someone on irisheconomy describing David (and Gurdjiev) as dangerous while the other day, re his Iceland article, he was accused of economic illiteracy, being selective with the facts, etc.

    So let’s remember, once again, that these same economists (or rather some of them) called it wrong, big time, over the crisis and the build-up to it. And if they didn’t call it wrong they kept mighty quiet about it.

    It’s interesting when two realities collide, at least from the safety of the sidelines where I am.

    Occasionally I wonder if I should cease being a contrarian and take in a short break with the herd – do a bit of sight-seing, open my eyes to life a bit, accept things, let go a little.

    But then, I know what will happen. The herd will only choose that very moment to be proved wrong, big time, and I’m not having that…

    • Black Cat

      David Mc Williams name seems to be mentioned on the radio a lot these days – seems people are paying attention to the alternative now its apparant the official line isn’t trustworthey – even quoted him on Radio Kerry which doesn’t usually venture outside the Pale

  33. Prend

    Maybe I am being over simplistic when it comes to the issue of home owners in arrears but is there any merit in the following:

    The negative equity really only becomes a problem if you cannot meet your repayments. Therefore, if mortgages were extended over a longer period, repayment amounts woudl fall and people woudl be better positioned to meet their repayments.

    Obviously there will be a greater interest cost over time.

    However, with the time value of money, in say, twenty years the amount of repayment will be significantly proportionately less than the individuals income. There is absolutely nothing, assuming the mortgage is not fixed, stopping people increasing their mortgage repayment at that stage.

    This way the individual does not face repossession or default, keeps a clean credit rating, is paying less to the banks on a monthly basis and hopefully will start to spend these extra monies in the economy.

    Where is my logic flawed?

    • Eireannach

      Your logic is not flawed, but have you factored in ‘Peak Oil’?

      The economy is going to contract drastically in a few years as global demand for oil increasingly outstrips supply.

      As Michael Meacher of the UK Labour Party so articulately pointed out:

      ‘It is impossible to believe that Peak Oil, and its effect on the economy, is not going to happen… it is GOING to happen’

    • wills

      In its *moral compass*.

    • ouldbegrudger

      I have two first cousins in Japan, both in finance. A little over twenty years ago the property and stock markets crashed to 33% of peak (1989). They have stayed there ever since. They now have “generational” mortgages. The parents leave the bloody thing to their heirs. The Japanese hauled the interest rate to practically zero (actually negative if you factor in inflation) ten years ago. After twenty years of stimulus, huge public works projects, money printing and every trick in the book the economy still can’t get traction. IMHO,fifty year mortgages in Ireland? Ask your kids…..

  34. Art1980

    Your logic I don’t believe to be flawed, in fact don’t they have mortgages in germany that can be passed down from one generation to the next – i:e say a 100 year plus mortgage, I could be wrong on this.

    I read that an American billionaire was looking to buy EBS and he had stated that he would write off x amount of the principle sum on certain mortgages with conditions that if the property say was sold off in the future making a gain the bank would share in that gain. At the end if the day something will have to give in this country.

    Ibec saying today pay freezes till 2013 – think of all the budgets between now and then. I’m wondering will there be carnage on the streets to match the carnage of the up-coming budget.

    As to Canada mentioned earlier, I believe there has been a large demand for people to emigrate there so I say restrictions are plentyful and no an english passport doesn’t automatically quality you for a visa just because it falls under the commonwealth, as is Australia.

  35. Black Cat

    Coincidentially it was just on Newstalk – there is a recruitment fair for Canada on in Dublin this weekend – the guy said they are a developing country and taking in 230 thousand people a year

    • Deco

      The one thing that I cannot grasp is why there is a need for people in Canada, when their neighour to the south has a serious unemployment problem.

      There are almost 50 Million Americans on food stamps. And part of the same free trade area. Many of those Americans in neighbouring states. I imagine that would solve Canada’s labour shortfall.

      • joe sod

        americans have to go through the immigration process like everybody else, americans are not free to work in canada and vica versa, canada might be looking for alot of people, but remember they have a big pool to chose from, alot of those could be extended family being sponsored by family members already living in canada

  36. Black Cat

    We are first on channel four headlines – repeated on four plus one at eight – peter sutherland interview – john snow said he was putting positive spin on things

  37. Alf

    “Clearly this would have involved using the clock ticking down to the end of the guarantee as an incentive for the creditors to come to the table and do a deal with the State. But instead of using the guarantee as a bargaining chip, it was used as a blanket bailout.”

    David, this is wishful thinking. They had two years to do a deal with the creditors and sell these banks off. We painfully watched the deadline tick down while they twiddled their thumbs. Now the taxpayer gets the worst possible deal. Basically they have no clue what they are doing. It’s like breaking eggs with a hammer, lots of wasted opportunity and we get an omelette full of shells. Fianna fail should be renamed failure.

  38. Haveaniceday



    • Harper66

      I found this a depressinig thought too until I factored in the age of the Fianna Fail voter. I believe their hardcore vote is in the older age group still holding onto “civil War” politics. In time this vote will erode due to “natural wastage”. Fianna Fail is a spent force can you think of anyone under 50 that would even contemplate voting for them ever again?

      Like anglo they are toxic…give it time. They say revenge is a dish best served cold.

    • Colin

      The next survey should ask a follow up question, and why do you vote for that party? Bet you those who vote FF will answer “Don’t know” to that one.

    • ouldbegrudger

      That would be the 24% with their snouts in the trough. The people who stand to loose out when FF are ejected from power. A lot of these people have been bought with the wealth and productive labor of our children and generations not yet born. A serious moral issue, if I ever saw one.

  39. Black Cat

    Yes – my landlady is eightyish and she recently said ‘I liked Bertie better than Cowen – he was a straight man’ but she has lots of property and her son has done well out of building so she would…maybe if they cut the pension and bring in property tax (she will change her mind. they’ll have a job to hunt the landlords down I reckon, (many landlords properties are strangely owned by their children who live abroad in my experience of renting)she will change her mind.

  40. Malcolm McClure

    Deco: In the ‘Recovery Local’ blog you said:
    Brian Lucey has been lambasting NAMA since it’s creation, and has been shoved RTE for good as a result of his commentary.

    He was on a short clip close to top of the RTE news today.(Black Thursday) so he hasn’t been banished completely.

    • Deco

      I heard that yesterday, and it was the first time I heard him in a long time. His comments were much milder than his commentary on twitter, though : )) On the net he shows his anger clearly.

      • coldblow

        He got a roasting on irisheconomy a few weeks ago and his credibility was called into question. He ended up backtracking on burning the bondholders. He lost that battle, but I’m on his side in the war.

  41. Disinformation

    David, good work in the last week. You should stand up for yourself a bit more on tv because you are getting them rattled

    What the truck driver did was mirror the anger felt by the powerless in Ireland and his actions will be applauded by many. When someone is an outsider, a real outsider, and has reached breaking point then individual action is sometimes the only way to make your point and save your sanity. Officially he broke the law and he is being dealt with severely to get out the message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated. I liked the irony – an empty cement mixer plouging up a cul de sac in the same way the economy has been described as a car smash. Meanwhile the news on the Russia Today channel is completely different from the news on RTE. It is almost like another reality :-) but I am smart enough to know that the only reality I need to really worry about is the reality going inside my own head. That and an hour with a hobby each day brings contentment and keeps anger, frustration, disillusionment and madness at bay. It’s a crazy world out there but by having your own space where you can retire for a bit lets you see how absurd it all is and even laugh about it. Unplugged is heaven and is important to try and find that hour each day

    We had Francie (Lenihan) and Josie (Cowen) lying in front of the cameras last week and getting us all told to shut the fuck up and stop cribbin and moanin because they were in charge and doing a sterling job or running our economy. What a missed opportunity – one bag of flower poured over their heads would have done more damage than 100 FT articles and been seen all around the world. Are there no real men in Dublin anymore or will I need to come down there and do the job myself. The message would have been crystal clear – that the people of Ireland refuse to be governed by bankers and that they demand that their politicians act in the interest of the people. They could begin by showing some backbone and reminding the bankers that a democracy is supposed to be run by people who are elected for the benefit of those who do the electing. Most of all they should be convincing the people of Ireland that they are not really a bunch of drunken lying traitors but willing to say sorry and tell the banks to fuck off. People are capable of forgiving if they believe that rehabilitation has worked and that apologies are sincerely meant. Its your call guys. Do you want to be remembered as as someone who actually mattered and made a difference or as some useless idiot who betrayed his country. Then again all your friends are the types who believe that national borders are only mechanisms for controlling the little people while you launder your hidden cash in a market without borders or tranparency. What are you hiding guys? By paying 65 billion to save the banks you are protecting someone. Who? Yourselves maybe?

    Ireland is now an arrogant dictatorship because you have 500,000 unemployed cast adrift and looking for spare change inside the sofa while a few thousand princes are living in obscene luxury. These princes had better waken up from their drunken stupors because there is bound to be much more anger in the coming months and the backlash will be a direct result of FF, FG and Labour policies. You reap what you sow gentlemen and you sold out to the old elites while you watched the Irish people being screwed. Maybe you will be next. Time will tell and it all depends on how far you are intent on pushing the envelope

    What we have here is open corruption. Why would you wait until tomorrow to pay 3 billion for a business that you could aquire for 600 million today. Is this what they teach people on economics courses? What is the point of studying for a degree when the bullshit they feed you is 180 degrees out of kilter with the bullshit that is happening in the world outside? Who are we supposed to believe? There are academics who are just as useless as idiot politicians because they blindly tow the party line and don’t have the balls to tell us the truth. For example they indoctrinate Irish children to use Microsoft software (get them while they are young) for which our government pays out millions in licence fees. There is better software which costs absolutely nothing to aqcuire and use and which beats Microsoft hands down at almost every turn. M$ keeps brown envelope merchants in employment and just makes people stupid. Teach them real economics, real computing, real history and let them make their own minds up. Elect more independent TD’s and tell the party gangsters to feck off and make their own minds up and stand on their own principles and convictions

    The media hack (shredded wheat head – SWH) who acted incredulous when DMcW called the truck driver a hero on the Tonight Program was employing a ruse often used by those who peddle disinformation. It is called the ‘how dare you’ tactic. It is listed at number 2 in the list of Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation which you can enjoy at the link below. Ah but sure, SWH might say, this is just some silly nonsense peddled by lunatic conspiracy theorists on the internet. It wasn’t in the indo so it isn’t true and anyway you don’t want to be listening to people like that David McWilliams

    Many of you will instantly recognise some of these tactics however because they are universal. You will maybe say, ‘yes I know that one because I hear it all the time in the Irish media’. Ding ding. Some spivs extract a fortune for peddling this shite to naive businessmen and politicians but out of the kindness of my heart I will happily share it for free and further contribute to this great blog by including a few keywords that should help future surfers and inter-galactic time travelers dig up damning information regarding Irish corruption. Or should that be Corruption in Ireland, Irish, Corrupt, Corruption. This whole fuckin place needs cleaning out from top to bottom and some people need reminding that they are in fact mere mortals and not some modern genetic manifestation of the great Celtic gods. There is nothing more dangerous than some deluded old fart believing their own bullshit because they have spent their life getting their arse kissed by underlings who are either pathetically submissive characters or who are too stupid to know better. Deluded but a big pension some would no doubt remind me but that is what you expect in Ireland. Nasty little jibes the likes of DMcW has to put up with all the time

    When someone does something which makes everyone finally sit up and take notice the official line is always that the act was committed by a some madman acting alone. It was all so predictable that media lackeys like SWH (I can’t even remember the name of this nonentity) would cry out about the danger imposed by a raging madman on some innocent garda doing his job. They stopped just short of calling him a terrorist and their hypocracy is stunning. Where are the guards when some old biddy in a kitchen sink estate has a squad of neds outside her flat drinking buckfast and banging a ball off the windows. The fact is that the man was directing his anger at the establishment and not any individual member of the gardai who just happened to be on duty outside the dail on that particular day. The act was a symptom of the sheer terror felt every night in the bedrooms of Ireland as people lie in bed at night stressing about how to pay their bills. And make no mistake about the choice of word here.

    The Irish people have been driven to a state of psychological terror and you should not be surprised at the consequences resulting from the actions a brutal system which you blindly support, unquestioningly, stupidly and in total ignorance of the human cost. If this is Capitalism then it is a nightmare and you can keep it. Go to Las Vegas if you like gambling and leave the sick, the elderly and the unfortunate alone. Are people not allowed dignity and just here to be used like chattels who can be looked up in a database when some gombeem employer is looking for skills? A national skills database that every tom dick and harry can look up and get all our private info from. Some of these supposedly intelligent people are just plain fuckin crazy

    In desperation the mainstream media have now resorted to attacking bloggers and publishers of independent magazines because they can’t control them. Next they will demand that something be done about it. Well welcome to the real world guys and get used to the idea that your every move and every utterance is under heavy scrutiny. Where is your blog and what are you about? Why should we listen to the rantings of some media mediocrity who does not follow his convictions and reveal his integrity and empathy through the words he or she writes. David Mc Williams and Eddie Hobbs are worth a hundred such individuals and they are listened to because they are different. If they make a nice living from it so what. Try directing your anger at the real emeny and rejoice in the idea that all you think you know may not be worth jack shit. That is the problem with nailing your colours to the mast of religion, the gaa, political parties and other insane ideologies – once you are in you are fucked because you are blinkered and can’t really turn back. If you do it makes you look silly and you will live the rest of your life in the knowledge that some people think you are a fake. This is why sad old has beens can often be found drinking alone in a mood of self loathing. Dont do that. Be an real Irishman or woman and say what needs saying

    People will not be silenced by bullies like SWH and accused of being unpatriotic etc. Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel so please don’t start that old nonsense again. We can see through your little media games and all the spin. We will even remind you when it is time to visit a barber and get a decent hair cut. Now run back to your typewriter and write some more meaningless craptrap to feed the docile. There’s a good lad

    In the years approaching the centenary of the rising we are going to see these same people sickeningly proclaim their Irishness and talk with passion on cosy tv shows and other media about events from the mists of time and the heroes who gave birth this republic. They will roll out all the great names like Michael Collins who was a hero to some but a cold blooded murderer to others. It depends on your point of view and one mans hero is another man’s villain. You choose your own reality and the most courageous thing a person can do is accept that maybe everything they hold dear might not be real after all but actually a manifestation of years of lazy thinking and misguided emotions. Good luck

    From Bob Dylan – I want You:

    The drunken politician leaps Upon the street where mothers weep And the saviors who are fast asleep, they wait for you
    And I wait for them to interrupt Me drinkin from my broken cup And ask me to Open up the gate for you

    Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation

    • Black Cat

      The truck driver made channel four headlines – it was good because they said that there is a lot of anger in Europe about the Irish Situation, but look the Irish people are angry too. The Censorship in the Irish Media was revealed during the Conor Casby Brian Cowen Portrait incident – but the Leave Conor Casby Alone facebook page has over 7,000 members – no dobut this truck driver will become a peoples hero too and they may think better of going too hard on him.

    • Paul,

      This whole fuckin place needs cleaning out from top to bottom and some people need reminding that they are in fact mere mortals and not some modern genetic manifestation of the great Celtic gods. There is nothing more dangerous than some deluded old fart believing their own bullshit because they have spent their life getting their arse kissed by underlings who are either pathetically submissive characters or who are too stupid to know better.


      Are people not allowed dignity and just here to be used like chattels who can be looked up in a database when some gombeem employer is looking for skills? A national skills database that every tom dick and harry can look up and get all our private info from. Some of these supposedly intelligent people are just plain fuckin crazy


      Add to that google view mapping your ‘own’ property.

      …. Dignity? What diginity? We are no longer considered! We are not the sovereign anymore. Goldman Sachs, Maples & Calder and the likes are the ones who turn the wheels.

      Thanks Paul!

    • coldblow

      SWH – classic.

      Your post reminds me of the former big shot in an Irish language organization or some such who, I am told, was creaming it in salary and mileage (this was the mid-90s when it was still hard to get a steady job). Someone saw him at the end of an official do one night, no doubt after stirring speeches and rakes of pints, and they sang the national anthem and there he was with tears in his eyes…

    • mishco

      Beautifully put Pauldiv. Your anger is beautiful because it is the necessary truth.

      With all the unused cement trucks lying around the country (and a litle help from YouTube), the era of disinformation is drawing to a close.

      Or will they round up the trucks and jam YouTube?

  42. Black Cat

    I’ve read the Morgan Kelly Article three times and this blog for a few months and I’m still not sure what’s going on or coming next but I have come up with this foolproof survival plan that’s the distillation of all that I’ve learned
    1. Buy lots of tins of beans and a shotgun (sage advice from poster)
    2. Invest in Gold (some one here)
    3. Learn Chinese (some economist off the bbc)
    4. Emigrate (everyone)
    So I I follow this fool proof plan everything will be ok yes

    • michaelcoughlan


      When I satrted posting here about gold it was $1050 an oz or so and now it is $1308 oz. I know the dollar is even more fucked than the euro but soon the worlds currency will be bullion again THANK GOD!

    • Colin

      If the shotgun is intended to self-inflict, then I suggest you add a bottle of whiskey and a fine cigar.

    • ouldbegrudger

      Here’s the riddle of the day.
      You are tasked with saving the republic. You have a gun and one bullet. How do you use it?

      Answers should be submitted in cryptic form because I suspect that the old 1930′s Sedition Laws are probably still on the statue books.

  43. michaelcoughlan


    I really feel that the curse of Apollo and Cassandra is on the contributors to this blog. Have a read of this.

    What the fuck must be done to make the assholes in the Dail see the light?

    • Deco


      His name Joe McNamara.

      Joe McNamara for President !!

      • slightlywild

        There plenty of room in Aras for the nations favourite Cement Truck. The so-called elite have the candidates they want elected. Wouldn’t be great for once, the solid citizens of Ireland, voted someone like Joe McNamara. I know Fionnan Sheehan won’t be on Joe’s side.

  44. Black Cat

    Thank you Pauldiv – for setting things out clear – your posts are dynamite

  45. Selective Media Commentary….Example

    From my records.

    Prime Time Tuesday, September 28th:
    Dr. Constantin Gurdgiev was announced to be on Prime Time Thursday, September 30th. The last face on this Prime Time edition was Constantin stating (my own words) ‘If you take into account the main banking institutions covered by the banking guarantee we are talking about a hit of Euro 66-70 bln.

    Prime Tome Thursday, September 30th:
    None of the recorded interview was broadcasted.

    Suggestion to the editor/broadcaster. Next time you choose to broadcast what you recorded concerning Dr. Gurdgiev’s analysis, and he has done this country a great deal of a service in opposite to anyone dead or alive in DoF, please go ahead and apply the same black and white filter that you chose to apply to Prof. Morgan Kelly in your show on Tuesday.

    …Blatantly obvious!

    DSK is pleased with the results brought forward by his vassal Minister Lenihan. The strategy discussed in Toronto is working! IMF does not need to go in anymore, they rather have the internal DoF do the job for them.


    • Deco

      Thanks for telling us that Georg, concerning Constantin Gurdgiev.

      Pravda RTE at it once again. RTE should be privatised, because very soon technology will destroy any residual value they have left, and the taxpayer will get nothing. And as regards public service, wall to wall sitcoms, and interviews with ‘celebrities’ is not public sector broadcasting.

  46. Philip

    Just how much can we take as a nation? We need to understand that the usual pressure valves of emmigration may start to malfunction when the financial breakdown really starts to spread globally.
    Just eyeballing a little paper on civil unrest.
    A little piece taken out…showed
    both theoretically and empirically, using the example of India, that policing is only at best a
    short-term instrument in the fight against civil unrest. In the medium-term it may trigger
    further social discontent and unrest. In the medium-term, social redistributive policies are a
    more effective tool for reducing conflict.

    Seems like we are hell bent on starting a fight. Wealth is being redistributed alright and not to the benefit of the nation – looks like the “resilience” of the Irish people may be tested soon enough. Why cant they wake up!

    • michaelcoughlan

      The hedge funds are going to have a fucking field day!

    • ouldbegrudger

      It’s pretty clear that Ireland is no longer governed with the consent of its people. I wouldn’t be too impatient for the coming storm, it’ll be terrifying for everyone. That said, it is now time to consign FF to the dustbin of history. A possible solution would be to “proscribe” FF, like they did to the IRA and hand down six month sentences just for membership. I suggest that the next Dail pass a bill to give legal effect to the notion of exile.
      Screw-up in public office and you risk being stripped of citizenship and banished to Dubai or Montana (somewhere hot and dusty).

      • I think you are too generous!

        Dubai or Montana (somewhere hot and dusty).
        Rather something cold and frosty….
        Vostok, -89.2 degrees celsius (-129,6 Fahrenheit)

      • joe sod

        but who voted for FF it wasnt just older people, 20 and 30 somethings voted for them also, people that may be emmigrating now voted for them, how did they get such a huge proportion of the vote in 2007 and especially 2002, this is the recent past not ancient history, the fact is most people wanted to buy into the ff fairytale, they didnt want to look the gifthorse in the mouth. The whole nation is at fault and the whole nation has to take responsibility for the mess . I dont buy the line that the irish people are little sheep being led astray by the wicked wolf, this is another fairytale that the people now want to believe in. It is time for the nation as a whole to grow up and take responsibility

        • Deco

          Joe Sod you are correct.

          It is very common in times like this that people love to ‘blame other people’.

          If you look at the voting trends over the past fifteen years, you will see that the Bertie factor was strongest in the constituencies where people in the ages 20-35 were above average. That is constituencies right along the East coast. There was a pro-Ahern surge in all the urbanising, expanding areas. The young people who took on all the debt of the Ahern era – a lot of them also bought into Ahernism.

          A decline in the FF vote that occurred under Ahern, happened along the Atlantic seaboard, and in the upland areas where older people are a higher proportion of the electroate. Ahern lost his effort to acheive an overall majority in rural, economic laggards like Donegal, Kerry, Mayo, Galway East, Monaghan, where the FF fell, independents challenged the FF machine, SF concentrated funding, or locations to where FG could still retreat and be taken seriously.

          People who bought into the lifestyle, also bought into the political party that was most commonly associated with this. This was a victory of marketing, and indicates that our political system was not based on decisions between different policies and candidates, as much as following crowds in a lemming like manner. Same occurred in Britain under New Labour. It was euphoria based on hard sell.

          The younger people who bought Ahernism, this combination of crony socialism, and corrupt capitalism that costs a fortune and delivers farcical results and failure. The bought Ahernism because they bought the lifestyle the assumptions and bullshit.

          The assumptions are flawed, and they deserve critique.

        • Harper66

          Agreed it is time for the nation to grow up and take responsibility but eqaully it is important to remember that while the young may have voted for FF in 07 and 02, they wont vote for them in the next election.
          What FF have inflicted on this country has left an indelible mark on the pysche of an entire generation.

          In fact I think the first step we can take as a nation in growing up and taking responsibility is to Put together strategies to demand enmass that the next party in power must adopt certain policies to get in power. Top of the list should be to tear up the bank bail out on the grounds it is unconstitutional second anti corruption legislation three a clear out of quangos etc…etc..

          The competition between the two oppostion parties will cut throat if people are vocal now they really could make a difference.

          • mishco

            Never has the need for a new party with a new agenda been greater. The two old parties are spent forces. Which is why for at least two years many people have been urging our host and some of his like-minded “colleagues”, in whatever field they may work,
            to set up a new party to contend the next election, a party that represents not just the Dublin elite, but one that reaches out to Mayo, Donegal, Kerry, and everywhere else.

            There are at least two elements that can appeal to the whole country. The first is honesty. Above all the new party must be one that is dedicated to stamping out corruption, beginning with the banks but moving on to the civil service, local councils, state corporations and the professions like doctors and lawyers.

            The second element is competence in dealing with our problems. This will be needed to handle the economic mess still remaining once the corruption has been exposed and rooted out. Only people like David have this competence – I don’t, you probably don’t, but at least we can vote them in, as well as adding our comments here. But we can only vote them in if they put themselves forward.

            Are they waiting for the roof to cave in first?
            Or are they just paper tigers?

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