I AM sitting outside a lovely bar called De Prins in Amsterdam, looking out over the canal, past the cyclists, toward Anne Frank’s house beyond.
The crowds are lined up again, as they are every day, to bear witness to the most unspeakable crime and the most magnificent courage. We know that the effervescence of a lively young girl was snuffed out by evil, but we also know that Anne Frank’s legacy eclipses those individuals who betrayed her — those cowards who pushed her on to the train; the sadists who shaved her head, starved her and who eventually whimpered like children, implicated each other and sang like canaries when real men came to liberate the camps.
The story of Anne Frank is well known, but what is often overlooked is the attitude of the victors. I don’t mean the attitude to the Nazis, but the attitude to Germany in general.
Having driven through Germany twice this summer, it is not hard to marvel at the wealth, placidity and friendliness of the country. But it could have been so different.
Imagine if the World War Two victors had applied the traditional economic and financial sanctions to defeated Germany. What would have happened if the Allies had penalised Germany with reparations? How soon would the German economy have collapsed again, leading to yet more political chaos?
The far-sighted generation of American public servants and politicians who negotiated the Marshall Plan realised that they were in a new era and that the idea of collective punishment of a nation would not serve any purpose.
Instead, the Americans in 1945 did something no one could have predicted: they rewarded the average German with cash. They subsidised the recovery of Germany and Europe, thus ensuring a recovery and the emergence of the EU as a peaceful political project. Without US money and the US military umbrella, there would be no EU.
Of course, after World War One, it was the Versailles Treaty — rooted in French and British thinking that Germany should remain economically subservient — which catapulted Hitler into power. In fact, his rants about international Jewry being behind Versailles resonated right up to the war.
The only economist who foresaw the disastrous implications of reparations was Keynes. He warned that reparations would force the Germans to become so competitive that far from securing the French and British economies, they would undermine those countries through the mechanism of free trade.
He also twigged that Germany would become a huge debtor because maintaining the German mark on the Gold Standard would mean that Germany would have to borrow from tomorrow in order to pay for yesterday. As a result, Germany would either become a huge borrower or it would leave the Gold Standard. In the intervening period, Keynes predicted that Germany would destabilise the system because the system was destabilising Germany.
It is clear now that reparations led to disaster. The key difference between the Marshall Plan and the Versailles Treaty is forgiveness. The architects of the Marshall Plan did not encumber the Germans with any more financial hardships.
This was the price the Allies were prepared to pay in order to buy stability and loyalty in Europe. The thinking behind the Versailles Treaty was precisely the opposite and ultimately ruinous.
NOW keep the idea of reparations in your head and let us switch to the thinking behind our Government’s banking and economic policy. Consider the bailing out of the banks and encumbering the citizens of the country with a massive bill as a modern-day, peacetime equivalent of reparations.
However, our Irish bank reparations dwarf those of Versailles. The Treaty of Versailles demanded that Germany pay €318bn in today’s money. From a German population at the time of 58 million, this equates to €5,482 per person in today’s money. If bank bailout costs are €50bn, then this will work out at €11,235 per head — or more than twice the cost per head of the Treaty of Versailles to the average German.
Let that sink in a bit. Remember what we know about how reparations destroyed democratic Germany and just imagine what our bank reparations will do to us.
Now consider the other factor, which rankled with the average German after the Treaty of Versailles. One of the most contentious issues was the fact that Germany and the average German had to take sole responsibility for the war (despite the immediate cause of the war being the Austrians declaring war on Serbia).
In a similar sense, the way our Government has given us the bill to bail out foreign creditors is akin to telling the Irish people — many of whom didn’t borrow a farthing and have nothing to do with the banks — that we the people are solely responsible for the Irish banks, rather than the banks’ creditors, who actively lent to them.
Not only is the economic cost too much for any nation to shoulder, but the Irish people are not responsible for the behaviour of private banks licensed in Ireland by the European Central Bank.
The Irish bank reparations are financial lunacy and they are politically unacceptable. Anglo’s results yesterday only substantiate this view.
Is there any way that Irish society can cope with the bank reparations?
Ireland’s bank reparations will cost us €26,315 per worker in the economy. Is there any way that social peace and cohesion can be maintained when the average worker — who is entirely blameless — is being asked to cough up €26,315, while every foreign creditor, who is (in large part) to blame, is being subsidised by the average worker?
The financial implications of reparations are straightforward. Countries lumbered with excessive costs will default. This is what eventually happened to Germany. Furthermore, countries with excessive debts tend to leave whatever currency arrangement they are in, as Germany eventually did when it left the Gold Standard.
This is the lesson from financial history when excessive and unfair reparations are imposed on a nation. The endgame doesn’t have to be terrorising schoolchildren in Amsterdam, as it did with Hitler’s Germany — but the negative implications for economic and social stability are blindingly obvious.









Deco,
Get back to the dispassionate comment. You’ve been a stalwart through 3 years and I know, believe me, it’s tough to stay analytical but you must. Cold, hard and clear is your forte and within my limited abilites, I will back you to the hilt.
Some day, and it will be my pleasure, we may meet.
Till then, please be assured that your postings are eagerly digested.
With the utmost respect,
F
abilities
Furry – total respect to you also. You bring a lot of courage and a lot of balance to this board. And you remind us of stuff that we are trained to never think about. You have a ton of integrity. And we need that. Everyone is here because they want to improve the quality of the public debate about an issue that we are supposed to leave in the hands of authority. We all smell a rat when we are told “don’t worry yourself, everything will be fine”….
It is becomming clearer by the day that authority is loaded with morons and clowns. Rational thinking is squeezed out because rational analysis is a challenge to authority. There can be not rational analysis because if there was, authority would be found out to be very lacking, along with all the stupidity in the commercial establishment. The Irish libel law is very good at ensuring that anything that gets swept under the carpet is nailed down. Beer and circuses makes sure that if the dirt is seen that nobody sees it’s significance.
The irrelevant stuff gets hammered into people day and night. I mean “Hollywood actress splits from footballer superstar boyfriend, and then goes into rehab” is infinitely more likely to be examined in detail “system is run by a bunch of chancers who play golf together”. Tiger’s flings are more important that Cowen’s drinking. Will we see a headline like “Irish lifestyle causes bankruptcy, early death, dangerous accidents, and results in idiots getting elected to the Dail” ? Or how about “Irish state finances unsustainable, bankruptcy inevitable”. Or “Ahern was a total chancer from day one”…
Or “”Shock!! Horror!! as TD’s hand back expenses. The World wobbles in confusion!”"
Furrylugs and Deco.
Spot on. Cold analysis and elementary deduction.
‘If I am not mistaken it is a Bank that is owned by the Government…….’ – did you hear that ? That was not Alan Dukes touching the ceilings…..that was Trichet commenting about the enormity of the irish Soverign Debts via Anglo Irish Bank .It does not take tuppence to understand that the ECB are intent to make us suffer and that our problems are not theirs .
Already there is a body disengagement by the ECB with the ‘sewer rats ‘ we have governing us.
How long does it take to remove the needles from those in ‘false economic capsules ‘ to realise that in the real world we will be invaded soon and disenfranchised in EU.
If they continue wrecking the place with Anglo there’ll be nothing left for any invader to conquer or liberate.
@Deco, Malcolm, John Allen
Greece will be saved!
Have a look here:
China invests in Greece
‘Construct an eagles nest and the eagle will come’
http://bit.ly/cVQ3e8
http://bit.ly/aTEfZw
Great Yeatsian piece of prose there from you John blending memory, experience, mythology, economics, astrology.
Being rather Thanotic regarding our prospects also and noting even Pandora who released all the evils of Anglo upon us, even Pandora couldn’t destroy hope.
Unlike Whine hope, who hopes the old order will be restored, the hope is the evils of the old order are being burned big time on this isle.
Burning is also a cleansing out of the old order of corruption, nepotism, croneyism?
Magic does not only belong to the past, it belongs to our future as well.
As magic likes to hide and doesn’t like to reveal itself, new ways have to be found to find it:)
Danger is we look back too much over Ireland Incs SodEm and Go(to)morra like Lots wife we’ll be turned to stone. We need to look forward.
OT Trichet I believe spoke yesterday and closed another door on Anglo saying it was a matter for the Irish Government and not a matter for him!
Note it has to be ‘an eagles nest’ not a Ghostland Silver Birches!
I read a quote recently “the Chinese are on a threadmill to hell”.
Basically the Chinese are working really hard. And saving hard, and making great sacrifices. And then, they spoil it all by giving their money to inept Western politicians, so that inept Western politicians can continue the patronage and waste that is now endemnic in the West, and which is causing massive problems.
In view of the fact that Papandreou (?) is getting bailed out by the Chinese, we can expect his long term boozing buddy here to be lining up next to sell China some Anglo bankshares and empty shopping space in Limerick. Or maybe he will just give them the ESB in return for a few billion to keep the party in full swing.
Catastrophic handling of Anglo Irish Bank
In the prime time broadcast September 2nd, http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1079644 the underlying message can be summarized that Anglo is a bank that destroys the future of an entire country.
This message is nothing new, it has been written on by many since a long time now.
Prime time invited Alan Dukes, Joan Burton and Desmond Lachman, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, previously chief emerging market strategist at Salomon Smith Barney and deputy director of the International Monetary Fund’s Policy and Review Department.
David Drumm’s success in Boston made him CEO of Anglo Irish Bank at the tender age of 38 years. Today Mr. Drumm lives in a USD 4,6 million waterfront mansion. Drumm resigned in December 2008 after the USD 115 million hidden loans to Sean Fitzpatrick came into the public knowledge. At the same time:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/former-anglo-chief-buys-two-us-homes-for-72m-1613962.html
Todate, the OCDE, office of the director of corporate enforcement has failed to secure Mr. Drumm’s extradition to the Irish authorities for questioning.
It is a remarkable fact that back in April 2010 when Charlie Bird paid a surprise visit to Mr. Drumm’s mansion, the Sheriff’s office of Chatham commented that not a single Irish Authority would have contacted them to date.
WHY?
Anglo Irish Bank is the financial cancer that has ruined this country, and as a result of the authorities neglect on the issue, unjust enrichment, and cataclysmic financial destruction went hand in hand.
The politicians on who’s watch all this happened are still governing this country….
Best,
Georg
Today I contacted Chatham’s Enforcement Bureau Commander, Major T.L. Enoch, should I receive any answer I will post it here of course.
Dear Major Enoch,
In my role as a free lance journalist, I am writing on the issue of Anglo Irish Bank in Ireland, and I try to get some facts straight.
Would it be appropriate for you to let me know if and when the Irish OCDE, office of the director of corporate enforcement, made contact with the Sheriff’s department in Chatham regarding Mr. David K. Drumm who is wanted for questioning on his role as CEO of Anglo Irish Bank and who resides currently at an address in Cape Cod/Chatham?
To the best of my knowledge, back in April 2010, there was an article where the Sheriff’s office stated that until then, no Irish authority would have contacted your office.
Did any Irish authority contact you to date on that matter at all?
Thank you very much for your consideration Sir!
In deed, this gentleman, amongst others, and his dealings in Anglo Irish Bank ruined the entire country of Ireland for generations to come, and in the interest of transparency and accountability I am trying to shed some light onto the issue.
Best,
Georg
Thanks Laughingbear – you have done us all a great service.
Laughingbear – you are Teutronic and Tetronic in your mindset.
John,
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4914840/OVS_0055_errigal.jpg
A dwelling sheltered by old trees caught my attention two days ago. Is it still occupied? Are people living there, it was too far away from y point of observation, but a thought has crossed my mind….
Whenever I walk these landscapes, and countless times I did that in the past 6 years, I always find something new. This is just a small part of the world, but it is rich, very rich in my eyes.
The people who might still live there, are they affected by the ruthless gangsters who ruined and continue to ruin this country?
…. you tell me!….
Laughingbear – well done
Clown just been on News @ One, ‘we have to minimize cost to the taxpayer’ ‘winding it down could cost taxpayer €70 bn upwards’
How can the moron get away with this?
Why should taxpayers be put on the rack even, when it comes down to it, for Anglo depositors?
End the Guarantee for Anglo. Time to burn the losses. Who the /%#!!| does he think he is to get Irish taxpayers to pay the tab?
Why do taxpayers have to pay for Seanie’s, FF croney losses? Mind boggling idiocy!
Same catchphrase that he has been using for the last twelve months. Basically FF is falling apart from within. It is IBEC’s worst nightmare, because now there are “loose cannons” getting in the way of IBEC/ICTU running the country. And they are liable to say anything.
If he wanted to give the Irish taxpayer value for money he would allow the Donegal by-election to proceed and stop wasting money fighting a court case in an effort to postpone democracy.
Yes, inside sources seem to indicate this is the case……but a coup unlikely as they tend to be counterproductive.
False dichotomy by Charles davis
“Political language . . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.” — George Orwell
http://charliedavis.blogspot.com/2010/09/siren-call-of-electoral-politics.html
An interesting summary:
http://baselinescenario.com/2010/09/02/irish-worries-for-the-global-economy/
Simon Johnson is the ex-Chief Economist at the IMF
Great link. From which:
“Ireland had more prudent choices. It could have cut the budget deficit while also acknowledging insolvency and requiring creditors to share some of the burdens. But a strong lobby of real estate developers, the investors who bought banks’ bonds and politicians with links to the failed developments (and their bankers) prefer that taxpayers rather than creditors pay. The European Central Bank, the European Union and the International Monetary Fund share some responsibility; they advocate these unlikely programs in order that European and global banks, which provided the funds to the Irish banks, do not suffer losses from such bad lending decisions.
The Irish government plan is – with good reason – highly unpopular, but the coalition of interests in its favor seems strong enough to ensure that it will proceed, at least until it either succeeds and growth recovers, or ends in complete failure with default of banks or the nation itself.
Under the current program, we estimate each Irish family of four will be liable for 200,000 euros in public debt by 2015. There are only 73,000 children born into the country each year, and these children will be paying off debts for decades to come – as well as needing to accept much greater austerity than has already been implemented. There is no doubt that social welfare systems, health care and education spending will decline sharply.
Watch for renewed emigration from a famously footloose population. If current policies continue, the calamity of the Irish banking system will lead to a much deeper recession and the consequences will be felt for decades. Watch also for further global financial disruption as this kind of deal starts to unravel.”
‘.. a strong lobby of real estate developers, the investors who bought banks’ bonds and politicians with links to the failed developments (and their bankers) prefer that taxpayers rather than creditors pay.’
Good point Sir, if only more Irish people woke upto this fact
I seen this article recently and did not have time to read all of it. But it makes some very interesting and different commentary.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article22199.html
Ill fares the land, to hast’ning ills a prey,
Where wealth accumulates, and men decay:
Princes and lords may flourish, or may fade;
A breath can make them, as a breath has made;
But a bold peasantry, their country’s pride,
When once destroy’d, can never be supplied…”
But times are altered; trade’s unfeeling train
Usurp the land and dispossess the swain;
Along the lawn, where scattered hamlet’s rose,
Unwieldy wealth and cumbrous pomp repose,
And every want to opulence allied,
And every pang that folly pays to pride.
– Oliver Goldsmith, The Deserted Village
It would appear that it was Edmund Spenser in his “A View of the present State of Ireland” from 1596 which gave some bright spark the idea for NAMA.
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/E500000-001/index.html
“”There is another no lesse inconvenient then this, which is for the triall of accessaries to felony: ffor, by the common Lawe, the accessarie can not be proceeded against till the principall have receyved his triall. Nowe the case often falleth in Ireland that a stealth beinge made by a rebell, or an outlawe, the stolen goodes are conveyed to some husbandman or gente, which hath well to take to, and yet liveth most by the receipt of suche stealthes, where they are found by the owner, and handled: whereuppon the party perhapps is apprehended and committed to gaole, or putt uppon suerties, till the Sessions, at which the owner, preferring a bill of Indictment, proveth sufficiently the stealth to have been committed vppon him by suche an outlawe, and to have ben found in the possession of the prisoner, against whom, nevertheles, no [course] of Lawe can proceede, nor triall can be had, for that the principall thiefe is not to be gotten, notwithstandinge that he likewise, standeth perhapps indicted at once with the receyver, beinge in rebellion or in the woodes, where peradventure he is slayne before he is taken, and so the receivor cleane acquited and discharged of the cryme. By which means the thieves are greatlie encouraged to steale, and theire mainteyners imboldned to receive theire stealthes, knowing howe hardlie they can be brought to any triall of lawe.”"
They’re consistent, I’ll give them that.
Hi,
I know that this post will be out of context but I feel it needs to be made to bring home to people how much €24bn Euros really is. So take €20 Euros out of your pocket and examine how light it feels in your hand. Now here it is: €24bn Euros are equal to approximately 120 metric tonnes weight of those 20 euro notes. Yes you got it! In case you don’t know how much 120 metric tonnes weights it is approximately the same weight of 100 brand new mini cooper s cars. THAT’S HOW MUCH THE ANGLO BAIL OUT ALONE COSTS SO FAR IN WEIGHT OF 20 EURO NOTES!
Or 3 fully loaded articulated trucks. With a small bulldozer thrown in for good measure.
Unbelievable.
On a lighter note for the weekend, I found this over on Politics.ie. Hope MsAnnThrope doesn’t mind my posting it here;
Thus, Irish Political Anagrams;
Brian Cowen – Nice bar now
Mary Coughlan – Anarchy mogul
Brian Lenihan – Hen lain brain
Dick Roche – Hock cider (I kept it clean )
Mary Hanafin – I harm any fan
Mary Harney – Hear my yarn
Bertie Ahern – Earn bit here
Noel Dempsey – Sleepy demon
Dermot Ahern – Throne Dream
Conor Lenihan – Clan on heroin
Martin Mansergh – Hammering rants
Willie O’Dea – I’ll do a wee I
Pat Carey – Crap at ye
John Moloney – No helm no joy
Michael Martin – Am the criminal
Martin Cullen – Can turn me ill
Laughingbear – Perhaps you might enlighten us on ‘Herr Thilo Sarrazin ‘, a banker, and his best selling book ( Germany Does Away With Itself )currently hitting the charts in Deutschland.Do you think that what he is evolving in Germany might have some impact on Ireland short/medium,long term ?
John,
When the news came out last week on the government’s inept plan to introduce mandatory work for people on state assistance, such as child care, after school services etc., essentially introducing a second labour market, or “slave market”, ignoring the extensive german confederation of trade unions study that was undertaken on this issue in 2009, clearly stating the 80% of people on such a scheme never make it back into the “1st labour market”, on a Irish political fora the first thing that you could read was something like “78,982 Non Irish nationals receive state assistance”.
Does that answer your question?
Best,
Georg
Laughingbear – Why has Germany refused to reproduce itself in terms of population ? I think that will be the real defining moment in the evolution of the EU.
John,
overpopulation is the true cause for many of our predicaments:
Dear Georg,
Thanks so much for your very kind letter. I really appreciate your writing.
Please feel free to use quotes from my lecture and papers in your own educational efforts. We need to do all we can to get people to understand the basics of the predicament mankind has created for itself.
Some reprints are attached. I hope you’ll find them worthwhile.
Keep up the good work.
Sincerely,
Albert A. Bartlett; Professor Emeritus of Physics
University of Colorado at Boulder
His famous lecture in 8 parts
http://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy_video1.html
“Al” is a gem, a man of historic proportions in deed, he meet Niels Bohr, was in Los Alamos etc.
Best,
Georg
COSCO
Two years ago, the COSCO was the worlds largest container ship, today there are bigger ones, just no one needs them.
The Cosco’s, china ocean shipping company, regular route from Germany to Shanghai was normally performed with full load, today this is not the case anymore. Germany owns 1/3 of the worlds container fleet, not astonishing with their export force. Cosco was founded in 2005 in Hamburg. Today the group that includes some Reeder Families that go back three generations are fighting for their survival. The port of Shanghai has an abundance of container ships lie at anchor, they are not in regular holding spaces, but the port is flooded with empty container ships with no freight to be shipped.
….ILO, the united nations international labour organization, reported staggering unemployment figures.
http://www.ilocarib.org.tt/portal/images/stories/contenido/pdf/LabourandEmployment/GET2010%20V7.pdf
Youth employment up from 11.9 % in 2007 to 13% in 2009.
In other words, of the global 620 million economically active youth aged 15-24, around 81 million were without work at the end of 2009.
In my words…. Lost Generation!
In 2009 a total of 212 million, or 6,6 % people were without work.
Traditionally, any job recovery will be slower for young people, lagging behind educated and better qualified adults. The developing economies make up for 90% of the world’s young workforce. Crisis is daily reality. – It is the year 2010, the UN International Year of Youth. -
These above figures speak of unemployment, not taking underemployment into account.
Globally, 45 million young women and men are coming to the market every year!
Then we have so called vulnerable employment. This is estimated to have reached 1,5 billion people, or 50,6 % of the worlds labour force, and estimated increase of 110 million compared to 2008.
633 million workers and their families were on less than USD 1.25 per day in 2008, and 215 on the edge of poverty in 2009.
….The Cosco is back in Hamburg, to give you an idea on the scope of such a ship, it takes two full days to clear all the containers from the deck.
World trade, we need to re consider the ways we are producing and trading goods, in fact we need to re consider our entire growth based economic model. The paradigm of constant and sustainable growth is an oxymoron. It can not work!
How many more bubbles do we need to burst in our face until leaders come to their senses?
Best,
Georg
Brian Cowan says “The idea that it would be wound up with us having to come up with up-front costs of winding up that bank to the tune of 70 or further billions (euro) clearly would not be in the interests of the taxpayer,”
David McWilliams says that all creditors should be brought into a room and advised that they’ll receive nothing or a very small amount and that’ll be it.
Is Brian Cowan telling blatant lies in the above quote?
Is there perhaps a grey area between both comments – an area where we wouldn’t end up paying nothing to creditors, but at the same time, we wouldn’t end up paying 70 Billion either?
I suspect David knows what he’s talking about, therefore how can Cowan get away with such lies?
Each newspaper article always includes the standard reference to “European Officials” just to give the impression that someone with a brain is looking over their shoulder.
Are the Euro Officials leading them up the garden path, meaning they’d far rather have the Irish taxpayer foot the bill instead of Euro based creditors?
Creditors may be domestic as well as foreign.
Tell me why taxpayers should bail out Anglo Irish depositors including bondholders? Have they kidnapped the Irish economy and are threatening to blow it up. Or is that where the croney money is? Don’t give the guarantee or nationalisation as reasons as both are mere pre emptive strikes to make sure taxpayers give depositors the money lost to them by Seanie & Co?
We’d like to see all the documentation Joaquin Almunia is basing his decision upon when he meets Lenihan early next week.
Lets put to bed the lie the wind down of Anglo or whatever decision is made re Anglo is based on the least cost to the taxpayer. More like the least cost to FF cronies, depositors of Anglo and senior debt bondholders!
Haven’t you listened to Alan Ahearne and Brian Lenihan?
1. Quote from Lenihan on Primetime : ‘Defaulting on Anglo would have catastrophic consequences for the funding of the state. I wouldn’t be able to pay public servants or unemployment benefit’
So cbweb, taking point 1, what would you do to pay unemployment benefit if you couldn’t borrow a brass farthing in the morning?
The only reason Lenihan and Cowen are doing this is that the bond market has their balls in a vicegrip.
Laughingbear – Many thanks .I will take time to look at the presentation later.
My honest opinion is that for Ireland to find its Political / Management strategic location and its strategic action to get out of the financial political mess or to really know what is going to happen in the next months ,years etc , this topic that presently consumes the German people is our business too.
Whatever the merits of under producing your own race as the Germans do and/or as in Irelands case reproducing enough but rather instead exporting its best people elsewhere in the world, as previous history also has proven , social voids are created and are filled by foreigners.
I have observed in the past in France how the French Government displaced undesireables from a banlieu of Nice to Beausoleil that is in effect a banlieu of Monaco ( Principality)just to teach the Grimaldis a lesson in politics .
Could these social displacements be carried out to Ireland by the EU to defray the costs of the legacy FF have given us ? What are its implications to us Irish ?
On a small local level recently we are experiencing how the government are displacing refugees from mosney elsewhere against their will.So whats next? Can we not talk about this objectively as matured people and rationalise our thinking on these matters? What are we afraid of ?
While David has mooted solutions to the national debts under company law and allow the bondholders swim .Is it feasible and what might be the political strings attached to this to enforce the aftermat and secure the stability?
John,
I expressed that back in April already, the shift towards a much stronger right wing driven xenophobic attitude is a reality.
I would ask, is it not very convenient for any establishment that has sticky fingers in the banksters scam to divert attention and re focus public interest onto fears that entire Nations were deliberately drip fed with since 9/11 instead?
Sarrazin’s book and provocations came just in time. Just in time to help diverting attention from the people who caused this disaster. Then again, this is just my opinion, but I smell a rat here big time.
It caused a division of the people and pouring oil into the fire. May be, I should better say, it brought to the surface what was smoldering beneath already! There is a certain level of mass hysteria, really meant in this context as a clinical description, induced by years of indoctrination and fears of the unknown, that is now played to channel the anger in the public.
The grey mass of people, it is the majority. This majority can be used, and it appears to me that this is the case now.
If we can not finally come to a point of reason where we understand that this is our all biosphere we share, and it is the only one we have, then I am very worried what the future for our children’s children will look like.
It might be easier perhaps if we would stop to look at the differences in people n this planet and cherish what we have in common instead. Currently, what we all have in common is a mother load of problems that need to be addressed with priority, otherwise we fail to take serious the inherent extinction potential that is threatening our survival here.
Warmongers, regardless form what ideology or nation they originate, have to be dismissed by the people of these nations. The clearly identifiable driving forces in this global game of weapons and wars have to be deprived of their powers. The same counts for Banksters who are literally in the same club.
With Peak Oil and Peak Everything, everything is at stake here, and time is against us.
A new social contract is required on a global scale, and that needs a global dialog to be able to kickstart. Our current concepts are severely flawed, deliberately flawed, on purpose of exploitation, a child can see that to be true, really!
Racial differences, color of skin, matters of national identity and other factors that are overvalued are of no concern to me, we are the human race, with all the differences and variations, and herein lies our true beauty as the five fingered human species that we are. Yes we all should keep and cherish our traditions and cultural identity.
The poverty driven mass immigration of people has just started. I wrote about that here on this platform earlier this year on the example of a small port in Italy and how the officials deal with the flood of refugees.
What is the value of a human life? It has been devalued hasn’t it?
We are at a major crossroads here, and whatever way we choose to go, it is ultimately us who make these choices, as an individual and as a nation.
Best
Georg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE
“Overdose: The Next Financial Crisis” was produced by a team of filmmakers led by prominent Swedish libertarians Jonah Norberg and Martin Borgs.
The film has been broadcast in Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark and Australia – and won the prestigious ‘Best Feature Documentary’ award at the San Francisco Frozen Film Festival. Since the film debuted on the popular television series Four Corners on Australia’s public broadcaster ABC, it has incited a bit of an uproar among left-wing journalists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ECi6WJpbzE
The lesson for the ordinary is never invest in shares again. The ordinary people of Ireland that grew up to trust their Banks and consequently bought shares in them never believed the Banks would be wiped out. The Government decided to look after bond holders and ensure they didn’t get wiped out, forget the now new ‘poor’ people of Ireland, these Bod holders must not be left upset. A government that puts foreigners and large institutions ahead of its people is not a Government
The lesson for the ordinary person is never invest in shares again. The ordinary people of Ireland that grew up to trust their Banks and consequently bought shares in them never believed the Banks would be wiped out. The Government decided to look after Bond holders and ensure they didn’t get wiped out, forget the now new ‘poor’ people of Ireland, these Bond holders must not be left upset. A Government that puts foreigners and large institutions ahead of its people is not a Government
COWENS 70 BILLION EURO LIE.
Anglo is a LIMITED LIABILITY company….Owners are NOT LIABLE FOR debts.
The current owners (THE STATE) guaranteed debts for last 2 YEARS…by CHOICE.
Renewing guarantee FOR ANGLO is a CHOICE and NOT an obligation.
####
Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Limited, Registered in Ireland, Company Number 22045
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Reality Check – great movie thanks.
Among the things I learned from that movie ‘Overdose’ are
1 ‘The Spire’ , in Dublin did burst the Irish Bubble. It was Berties idea ; and
2 After pleasure there is pain .Sometimes that is called War.There is nothing else in between ; and
3 Nobody wants to know what to do next.
The “Spire” has many nicknames.
The one that I find most instructive is the nickname – the “Binge Syringe”.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38953848
Not uncoincidental meeting of Almunia and Lenihan next week occurring at the same time the new Basel 111 accords are to be signed.
From link above:
“Recent amendments to the Bear Stearns Rule have extended this subsidy to Fannie and Freddie. The Basel Committee decided to include the debt of “Government Sponsored Entitites”—bureaucratic code for Fannie and Freddie—in the definition of “high quality liquid assets.” What’s more, it also included mortgage-backed securities guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie in the definition.
Up to 40% of a bank’s liquidity reserve can be made up of GSE obligations, under the rules likely to be approved in the next few weeks. And while it is true that these obligations get a 15% haircut under the rules because they are considered “Level 2” liquidity assets, compared with the cash, central bank reserves and sovereign debt that will now be considered Level 1 assets.
This creates a huge subsidy for Fannie and Freddie. Banks will load up on GSE obligations, especially in an era where central bank reserves and Treasury bond yields are being depressed by policy-makers seeking to keep sputtering economies afloat. This artificial demand will scramble market signals about the risk taken on by Fannie and Freddie—all but ensuring that Fannie and Freddie will once again unwittingly take on more risk than they can handle. In short, the very same toxic situation created by the once implicit government subsidy of Fannie and Freddie is being baked right into Basel III.”
So the rubbish held by NAMA turns out to be even more rubbish. We may yet be seeing AIB/BOI buying it back to use as capital reserve liquidity?
Because of the hair cut will it loses 60% plus of a value they could previously have used to satisfy Basel 111 capital reserve requirements.
Liquidity now means bubble based assets such as toxic property loans are ‘liquid’. No longer depends on employment/production, or earnings spent by the lower/middle classes or by government on education and health.
Banks can now raid the public purse at will to top up their toxic loan lending at will. We’re off on a renewed bubble.
David McWilliams wtites above: “The Irish people are not responsible for the bahaviour of private banks licensed in Ireland by the European Central Bank”. This statement is untrue in that the ECB has no power to licence or unlicense banks in any member state of the Eurozone. Banks are licensed by member states and each member state is obliged to let banks licensed in one state operate in any other state. That is why Icelandic banks were able to take deposits from gullible Brits (Iceland belongs to the European Economic Area to which this rule also applies). The fact that there was no eurozone financial regulator is one reason why adolescent countries, like Ireland and Greece, were able to go on a financial spree, financed by French and German banks who (correctly) bet that the parents of the adolescents(the French and German governments) would if necessary bail out their wayward prodigals. That bail-out comes at a price, which Greece is paying. Trying to do without a bail-out also comes at a price, which Ireland is paying. There is no way out of a financial hangover without an economic headache. Having learned their lesson, the French and German governments are now promoting the creation of European financial regulators. This will help for the future but not for the current mess concerning Anglo Irish, which was exclusively in the jurisdiction of Irish regulators. That mess can only be dealt with either by having the Irish people pay for it directly or, if they refuse, having the French and German governments bail out the Irish public finances when private lenders turn in panic away from an Irish government which reneges on the infamous guarantee of September 2008. That guarantee should never have been given in such broad terms – and it was given unilaterally, without any real consultation with other EU governments.
OK SOLUTION…WE need to BORROW LIKE INSANE DRUNK GAMBLERS!!
FORGET 90 BILLION NAMASCAMARAMA….
LETS squander MORE taxpayers money TO THE TUNE OF 70 BILLION.
PUT INTO black hole PRIVATE corrupt CRIMINAL BANK that IRISH are ALREADY VICTIM OF.
This will restore CREDIBILITY to the VICTIMS.
BATTERED wife TAXPAYER syndrome.
If we have a conscience and we pay our just taxes we must ask ourselves why do we pay what we pay and to have less as a result to live on for our lifestyle.It would follow that the more we earn the more tax we pay .By extension we should concern ourselves with how that money is used for and why?
Does it matter how our money is used and does it change how we feel about where that money goes?
Is there solidarity among taxpayers?Are there rights among taxpayers?
Pain unites the sufferers and all sufferers want a remedy.When is a pain a real pain that initiates the sufferer to meet another to find a remedy .Pain will find its conqueror and all sufferers will find their relief sometime.How long does that take and what are those costs in the meantime?
Before pain arrives there are symptoms sometimes visible and others underlying .It may have only personal constraints or a social dimension or both .Dealing with the symptoms early lessens the ultimate pain forboding .Do we want to KNOW? Do we CARE? Does anything MATTER anymore?
@Paddythepig
I think David said it last article: ‘you want it one way, but its the other way’. Anglo bailout was to settle the markets, restore property prices, stabilise the cost of our borrowing. Indeed we might make a profit on the gamble. The reality is the markets havn’t been persuaded that such a course, fed by false information on the losses at Anglo, was either wise or prudent.
Markets see Ireland Inc heading up a one way street against the traffic flow. Risk of sovereign default instead of being reduced by FF’s incomepetent handling of Anglo, instead has significantly increased.
So the argument that if we didn’t bailout Anglo, we might not be able to pay our public servants has now reversed into the argument that if we bail out Anglo, our public servants will not get paid. Go figure, decide for yourself who is to blame for this debacle.
May I salute the vast majority of people in this country, contrary to prevailing Pravda RTE and FF propaganda, who according to the Sunday Independent today, believe the Anglo bailout can bankrupt the country.
OT what’s happened to Alan Ahearne recently. Havn’t hear from him in a while! Here’s JP Morgan rubbish he supported 2009
http://bit.ly/c2dAAf
Another crony who got it wrong. Time taxpayers said ‘No!’ to paying for incompetence and false predictions.
Just because the chosen course of action is proving difficult doesn’t mean it isn’t the right course of action.
Why do you think Cowen and Lenihan and FF (the most populist and narcissistic party in this country) are doing this?
It’s good that recent bond auctions have proven problematic, as it forces the Government to face up to cutting waste sooner rather than later. The Government reaction, if this continues, will be to frontload the cuts, only because they are forced to, not because they want to. Should they make the necessary productivity improvements, the bond market will back off.
Why do you complain about the Anglo bailout costs, but say nothing about the cost of keeping all the makey-up jobs, quangos, and overpaid public servants? Which is an equivalent cost to Angdo taken annually, and a far greater cost cumulatively?
Dole is still being paid, as are public servants. You have decided to avoid the question I posed. What would you do if you couldn’t borrow a brass farthing in the morning to pay dole and public servants? What would you do?
Answer the question.
@paddythepig
Good you ask that question also fair dues to the guy in Tennyson’s poem below who figured out someone had blundered:). Most of FF it would seem take the view:
“Forward, the Light Brigade!”
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Someone had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.(Tennyson)
Read blog here for answers: http://colmbrazel.wordpress.com
Also posts here over the past year or two.
I’ve been a consistent critic of NAMA and the effort to save Anglo as a betrayal of taxpayers. But have always said Anglo was the elephant in the china shop that required taking down immediately, its resources dispersed among the other banks, losses dealt with as a negotiated write down of bondholder debt and if necessary,depositors to lose out in a proportionate write down that makes its debt serviceable.
Many elements of http://bankermathews.com/ I agree with also.
I’ve advocated a default and sovereign debt renegotiation along the lines of the Uruguayan model. I’ve also advocated removing our currency out of the euro failing sufficient aid from Europe to deal with the fiduciary responsibility issue of ECB lenders.
From the outset my own preferred model of settlement was to follow the Swedish model of temporary conservatorship/nationalisation of the banks with closure of the most toxic. Immediate firesale of the commercial/residential property ‘portfooliou’s’ of the banks in a timeframe not exceeding 5 years.
Study here of the nordic countries Norway, Sweden, Finland approach to dealing with similar crises. (I know its frustrating our Government and bankers made mistakes already outlined as causing crises that why senior management of all the banks and government should be replaced immediately.
http://bit.ly/c3r51f
A perhaps more accurate question is how the handling of the Nordic crises measures up to best practice. Although there is consensus in the literature that di¤erent crises should not necessarily be resolved in the same way (see e.g.
OECD, 2002), some guidelines for best practice exist:
IMF (1998) points out: “Studies of banking crises have shown [...] that countries that are quickest to diagnose the underlying problems, assess losses and take measures to ensure macroeconomic stability and restructure their banking sectors are generally the most successful in recovering
from the crisis.”
THE FISCAL COSTS OF THE RESOLUTIONS 99
Hoggarth (2002) points out that “key principles in any restructuring are that only viable institutions are kept open; the costs of restructuring are transparent and those to taxpayers minimised; losses are allocated to ex-isting shareholders, creditors and perhaps large depositors; the resolution preserves incentives for new private capital and discipline is maintained on bank borrowers”.
I’m no expert in the area but consider myself rather informed as a layperson and deeply concerned as to what I consider to me false crony friendly propaganda filled with moral hazard for taxpayers.
Best principles in dealing with our crisis have been set aside by our Government. They’ve turned resolution of our crisis into the manufacturing of a solution that compounds and deepens the original crisis and have added themselves to the difficulties we face.
Re best practice, 2 years on, we don’t yet know extent of the losses problem. Large Anglo depositors, who could number cronies, who’ve possibly pocketed borrowings from Anglo that were not even spent on property subject of toxic loans, who apparently escape the interest of Revenue, CAB and a proper Garda investigation. No restructuring of the banking sector has taken place. the most obvious restructuring would have been to burn Anglo losses per best practice, send assets from Anglo to other Irish banks including depositors, send toxic loans to other banks to extract and write down if necessary alongside capital injections for this from the EU to the Irish NTMA through our Central Bank.
What we have instead is the Government have raided the vaults of our banks taking out their assets toxic and otherwise thus crippling them while leaving the banks still burning. Our banks are being burnt down while Nero Lenihan fiddles around as the fire spreads to our economy. You couldn’t dream up a worse way to deal with our meltdown!
Keep asking questions:)
You still haven’t answered the question.
Even in your Euro-exited, debt-renegotiated nirvana , how would you cut the gap between taxes received and public spending? How would you pay the dole, and public servants salaries?
Would you print the money like Mugabe? Or would you take the correct option, and cut salaries and benefits in line with spending?
Why do you concentrate so much on the billions being poured into Anglo, and neglect the billions being poured upon quangos, inflated public spending, and makey-up jobs?
Hi,
I’m afraid there’s no nirvana and there’s tough weather ahead.
Re “neglect the billions being poured upon quangos, inflated public spending, and makey-up jobs?” I’m in total agreement with you there. There will have to be big changes there as well!
But with the likes of the Tipp players and their great skill and craft, who deserve better political leadership, we can come back from the dead! Time to turn the Ireland Inc banner into a modern day Ferrari! After the banks and economy get fixed, begorrah this will be a great place to invest in, provided the gombeens get routed!
Today, on tht RTE radio news at 1:00, Sean Power TD (FF, Kildare South) – announced that he was not in favour of the government fighting a court case to delay democracy in Donegal South West.
PREDICTION. Tomorrow morning, I expect the GP to announce that they also have done a u-turn on this issue. Yes, that’s right – I expect a Hughie McGooey from the Greens tomorrow, concerning an issue that Eamonn Ryan is deliberately trying to shove out and avoid.
Not certain if Dan Boil will be the twat that tweets again, or if it will be FU Gogarty. But, I am 90% certain that the GP will engage in an exercise in “perception determination” or “spin” or “optics” or whatever you want to call it, over the fact that somebody outside of the GP has been momentarily given to appear on the high moral ground.
Let’s see now in the morning if this is proven correct.
@TullMcAdoo: concerning the alleged contribution of the euro to Ireland’s problem, Paul77 gave you an answer. Most eurozone countries did not have a housing bubble. During the “naughties” German house prices actually fell.
Spain also had a housing bubble and some Spanish savings banks which did a lot of property lending, the “Cajas”, had to be rescued, generally by merging the Cajas in difficulty with stronger Cajas. However, the big Spanish commercial banks, such as Santander and BBVA, emerged as among the strongest in the world, in part because they did not concentrate on property lending and in part because the Spanish central bank forced them to set aside extra reserves to cover their increased lending (in banking jargon: “countercyclical provisioning”).
Ireland’s problems are almost entirely of its own making. If Ireland’s financial regulator had controlled the expansion of bank lending in the same way as the Spanish central bank, there would not have been any need for the fateful state guarantee of September 2008…..and this whole e-mail thread would not exist.
David, Having viewed some of today’s press, I am astonished to detect so many pro-Lenihan cheerleaders/commentators who are finally beginning to see the light.
Pity we have had the foreseeable and avoidable FINANCIAL HOLOCAUST of Anglo to waken them; and they still do not seem to recognise that it will be the AIB time-bomb which may deliver our economic coup de grace. So much of our resources have been wasted on Anglo that we have no real fire-power for the major transfusions needed to save AIB which has the largest commercial property portfolio of all the Irish banks.
For those who still believe in Brian Lenihan here is a reminder of some of many tough decisions, we have desperately needed, but which he has failed to take:
1. No urgent decision was taken, in the light of the massive budgetary deficit, to immediately terminate the payment of pensions to former ministers and other politicians who have not retired and are in receipt of salaries in respect of other public office appointments. Where Brian Lenihan is concerned everything seems to be “constitutionally problematical” – change the Constitution, please!
2. No decision has been taken to alter the Constitution so that members of the judiciary will be subject to the same cuts in remuneration as public servants on equivalent pay scales.
Brian Lenihan’s wife, Patricia Ryan, is a circuit court judge.
(We need an amendment, also, to guarantee that taxpayer funds will never again be used to bail out a financial institution.) At the moment, our Constitution functions as a charter for cheats.
3. No decision has been taken to dismiss the “public interest” representatives on the banking boards of directors who have allowed insiders of doubtful competence to continue in or to be promoted to new positions of leadership, under contracts which seem not to have been sufficiently vetted and properly costed so as to conform to the bankrupt state of the financial institutions concerned.
4. No decision has been taken to remove passports from tax exiles – as the United States does – and from those individuals who are known to have been the primary culprits in the meltdown of Ireland’s financial system to minimise the risk of their transferring funds, or seeking access to funds already transferred, to overseas locations.
I sense that certain former banking CEOs have been promised immunity from prosecution.
5. No decision has been taken to increase the marginal rate of tax on the highest earners to a level which is appropriate to the state of our finances and the gross inequalities in our society. Indeed Minister Lenihan is pre-empting matters by going on record to say that the marginal rate will NOT be increased for high earners, at a time when our UK neighbours have already taken this difficult decision.
The top 250 wealthy individuals in this country have a combined net wealth of 40 billion euros and something radical needs to be done to discourage them from frittering away this wealth on financial derivatives or on the roulette wheels of casinos royales.
6. No decision has been taken to introduce a wealth tax or raise inheritance tax on estates which are worth many tens, hundreds, or indeed thousands of millions.
China
This Q&A presents an interview by Asia Policy’s editor, Andrew Marble, with Pieter Bottelier, senior adjunct professor of China Studies at Johns Hopkins University, on the impacts of the financial crisis on China and examines the implications for China’s foreign policy and global status.
http://www.nbr.org/publications/asia_policy/ap9/AP9_F_ChinaQA.pdf
Best
Georg
China Analysis January 2009
The Financial Crisis and Its Impact on China
Dirk Schmidt
Senior Lecturer Research Group on the Political Economy of China Trier University
China Analysis is edited by
Sebastian Heilmann Professor of Government / Political Economy of China Trier University, 54286 Trier, Germany
http://www.chinapolitik.de/studien/china_analysis/no_67.pdf
Yield Right of Way :
Do we look to the left or do we look to the right before we look the otherway.Has the East become the West and the West become the East ? Does our compass work properly anymore? Did Plato ever meet Confucius and if he did who paid for the coffee and with what?
How many men were with Plato and Confucius when they travelled to meet ? Where did they meet?
Maybe this event never happened but now we wish it had because it is relevant today in how we want to think to understand better .
I watched two full bowls of water in the sunshine recently and turned over one bowl to pour directly upon the lower bowl to watch the waters mix .The result was that due to the speed of the fall both waters repelled each other and the falling water was displaced instantly upon contact without mixing together.
But water does mix does’nt it? Unfortunately , sometimes it does’nt if Speed has its way .
China did not become an Elephant overnight and speed is a weakness in their thoughts unlike ours.
We need to feel our pulses first to know where we are.
A critical thought on Economists
I feel that we need to slow things down.
Since 1946 world economic output grew steadily at around 3.5% per annum.
2006 world economic output was around $ 47tln
The value of stock and bond markets at $ 119tln.
Derivatives at $ 473tln
Just looking at this ratio explains a lot to me.
2009 was the first year after WWII where output contracted around 1% year to year, global trade went down 25%. While most countries suffered GDP losses China, India and Indonesia recorded the biggest gains. Treasuries issued new public debts and many central banks monetized the debt.
Round about 80,000.000 people join the club, the planet, each year!
…. In the year 1839 Imperial Commissioner Lin Zexu posted a letter to Queen Victoria, questioning the empires moral ground and ethics with reference to the Opium trade and gunboat policy, it never reached the empire but was published in the times later. A few years earlier gunboats were sent to China over unpaid debts.
Today, the gunboats and bullets are the IMF and Worldbank to enforce special interests around the world.
I feel that the ‘High Priests’ of our time, the economists, are somewhat overvalued in the discussions that are required to find solutions for the daunting problems we face as a global community. It never was more clear to me when I followed the debate on FT in July stimulus vs. austerity.
I remembered the history of the both Nobel prize winners who setup LTCM, and their hedge fund mathematical model of long positions. Their model was based on a 5 years prediction and failed with catastrophic consequences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_C._Merton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Scholes
I think we would do well to remember how our global trade developed historically, and why foreign relations to date are still a result of these times to a degree. I can understand chinese positions with reference to climate talks and other subjects of global importance on this background.
Mathematical models to predict a systems behavior appear to be one fraction of economists who oppose those who are more inclined to include human behavior in their attempts to describe market forces and developments.
I wonder, should we not rather question the system in it’s totality instead? By understanding the historical developments that brought us to the point where we are today, we can gain a better understanding of the problems at hand. The derivates trade was 10 times as high as the real world economic output in 2006, this alone should make us stop and re think our ways of interacting.
There is no question about it, we have to deal with rapidly declining liquid fuel resources, at the same time overwhelming problems of climate change are challenging our global structures, overpopulation and last but not least ‘way of life’ driven as ideology becomes a rather questionable concept.
Mankind is at the most important turning point, and our decisions will be the basis for the wellbeing of the generations to come. Personally, I am disheartened if I look at international efforts like climate talks or G20 meetings for example. I guess I am not alone with such observations.
The solutions for our future can not entirely come from varied or new economical concepts, whether they are variations of the same old, or new concepts, we have to draw a much wider circle and include other aspects in any attempt to come up with possible solutions, or we are just looking for a quick fix for the next few years to overcome a credit crunch that is the result of this global Heist.
International relations are of the utmost importance to be able to find a basis for possible solutions, at the same time, deeply encrusted interest and power structures, often based on historical events, need to be questioned as well, some of the stakeholders need to be deprived of their powers in order to even allow new concepts to be discussed.
Economists contributions are very important of course, but it seems to me as if their role now is somewhat inflated in the complex problems we face. Interdisciplinary efforts have to be made to be able to even get an overview of where we are at, let alone making suggestions for the future securitization of peace and social development.
Just thinking out loud
Best
Georg
It’s official…40% of the paddies are numerically illiterate. That explains it plain and simple. Of the remaining 60% I would wager only 20% (about 12% overall – before I show myself up) could do a mortgage calculation to save their lives.
And then I hear some expert on the radio this morning saying use it or loose it. With all these calculators and compooters etc shure ya dont have ta use yer fingers any more.
By the way, I think this a global problem. But it just goes to show what happens with voters and the inability of a lot of them not being able to do a percentage. The bookies must love us.
No wonder there are calls to abolish the Leaving Cert as it must be torture – I hope the relevant personage in the UN is on the case. Would it be appropriate to enquire who these 40% are (ie names and addresses) – for mailshots etc regarding special offers?
As I said recently, people get lost long before they get to 1bn (US) to say nothing of 1bn (UK). There’s probably a comfort zone around the 8,000 mark, or whatever a 90 inch (er, 250cm?) plasma tv screen costs (only joking). Mind you, the Amazonian Pirahas can’t get beyond 2, and they are happy. Where does Ricardian Equivalence theory fit into all this?
Hi David,
I hope you had a good summer. I have kept up with reading your articles but havent had the time to respond to many alas. You continue to omake valid points.
David> the Irish people are not responsible for the behaviour of private banks licensed in Ireland by the European Central Bank.
Exactly! If everyone (including Ministers) read and understand this sentence then the country would be a lot better off, education wise at any rate. The banks in Ireland are NOT (or at least WERE not) Irish banks before we guaranteed them and nationalised (or partially) them.
Not every Irish person is responsible, nor could they be. However, the ‘accidental gainers’ (as explained with your Generation Game) arent exactly queing up to give some of their money back, are they?
Thats where a potential solution lies I think, and I’d like you to explore that. I’ve called in a ‘clawback tax’ in past comments, its essentially a wealth tax, a tax on that ‘accidental wealth’. Here is the example:
2006 Mary sells land to Peter for 30million, pays CGT 20% (Gov spends it on current spending!)
2006 Peter gets 30m loan from bank(s), A,B etc
2006 Peter doesnt pay on loans so interest is ‘rolled up’
2010 Peter’s loan is seen as bad, goes to NAMA, valued at 1m in reality, NAMA pays a discount of 50% (values it at 15m!) Every taxpayer in Ireland (and we all pay VAT!) has paid to cover Peter’s default.
People ask where did the money go? Well, simple:
Mary gets 30m less CGT 20% (of diff in value, eg: 20% of 25m)
Peter pays nothing!
Banks pay nothing!
Gov (us) pay 30m and get the land (if we – Gov, NAMA, act as the biggest land monopoliser, we will hopefully extract some value for that land in time – only to be paid for, you and me). Its a zero sum game.
We (as a nation) HAVE to tax Mary, we have to make Peter pay as well.
David> Is there any way that social peace and cohesion can be maintained when the average worker — who is entirely blameless — is being asked to cough up €26,315?
Not sure if we as an economy were entirely lacking in benefit though. Each corner shop selling breakfast rolls to BRM, for example, ie: the money flowed through the economy, there is no doubt about that and many ‘beneifitted’ whether they realised it or not. Like jellyfish in the tide. Many may have been swimming out to sea but got washed in on the shore all the same.
MK1
MK1 – Your social proposal is morally valid but can never be initiated under the Finance Acts ( Taxes) as it goes against the principles it has shown to date and maybe in breach of Trust of Laws of Contract .Retrospective liability under a new law when the old law did not make it accountable is unenforceable and void.A can of Worms would come to mind.
MK1 – Sharia River
What way were you facing when you were on holidays ? If it was not towards Mecca then I think as Mullah you should pay double the hotel rate because you blocked the goodness of the sun from mohommad when he was praying.
May your camel wear a thousand fleas when you ride it again.
( this is a can of worms)