June 7, 2010

Kill Anglo to save Ireland

Posted in Banks · 87 comments ·
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I was on the Dart into Dublin the other morning, surrounded by students getting ready to sit the dreaded Leaving Cert this week.

They were in good form, talking about big bits of the course they hadn’t a clue about. This is the sort of bravado or giddiness that precedes panic. I remember it well. Their lives are ahead of them and there is nothing they can’t do, given a chance. But are we giving them a chance?

My heart sank when I heard, earlier that morning, that the state was going to waste yet more of our money on Anglo. No one needs Anglo and, if we closed it down tomorrow, we’d miss it less than Hector Grey’s. More to the point, the financial markets would reward, not punish, us.

Our government has indicated that it will have to put up to €20 billion into Anglo so that it can give this money to institutions that lent to Anglo. Just let’s think about how much money this is.

Very few are able to comprehend the impact of nine zeros. Instead of euro, let us imagine seconds. One million (1,000,000) seconds is 1.65 weeks or about 11 days. One billion (1,000,000,000) seconds is 31 years, eight months and 15 days. Twenty billion is more than 636 years!

That’s how much Anglo will cost us, before interest on the money we will borrow to give back to the investors. This is plainly ludicrous. Our government is putting a plan to the EU which plots what happens next to this piece of financial rubbish.

Alan Dukes, chairman of Anglo, who is an honourable man, said he had a plan: he will split Anglo into two banks – a good and a bad bank. The good bank will be a business bank and the bad bank is our problem – our 636-year problem.

But it’s not my problem and it’s not your problem: it is the Anglo investors’ problem and, because they took a punt on Anglo, they should have to sort it out themselves.

In America, the standard way of sorting this out was that the bank management looked at the two different types of creditors. There are bondholders and there are shareholders. Bondholders are a special type of creditor who lend the bank money, expect to be paid back in full and get a small interest premium. They are the most secure creditors.

The shareholders, on the other hand, are pure speculators. When the bank’s doing well the share price goes through the roof and they profit; when the bank is doing badly, the share prices collapse and they lose. Normally when a bank is in a crisis, like Anglo the bond holders swap shares in the new bank.

They are forced by the management to back the plan with their money, not just platitudes. They are forced to exchange their old bonds that the bank can’t pay for new shares, which will be worth quite a lot of money if the bank recovers. This is common practice.

But the bondholders in Anglo haven’t even been asked to do this. I suspect, if they were, they’d say thanks, but no thanks. We would prefer taxpayers’ hard cash rather than Dukes’ shares. Frankly, I don’t blame them. But they shouldn’t be given this option.

The second ‘‘normal’’ way of dealing with Anglo is, if the bank can recover as Dukes said it can, then let’s put that to the test. Simply, let’s do what they have done now with Quinn Insurance – call in an administrator and let the administrator find a new buyer. If it has value, somebody will buy the thing. Why don’t they do that in Anglo?

Because the Anglo management is bluffing. They will never find a buyer. So they have told us it has value, but they’re afraid to put that to the test. Nobody in their right mind believes them.

So the ‘‘insiders’’ who financed Anglo and were great capitalists four years ago, today don’t trust the normal rules of capitalism to solve their problem. They have miraculously turned into Marxists.

They used to be red in tooth and claw; now they’re just red.

So, close it down. The financial markets will reward us, because that is one less debt that the Irish taxpayer will have to pay in the future.

The reason the markets will support closing down Anglo is that markets have no interest in an Ireland that turns itself into a debt-servicing machine to pay for the mistakes of yesterday. There is always new money and, if someone has to lose on Anglo, well, so be it – that’s the game. Move on.

The financial markets are investors who want growth, who want to invest in the real wealth of Ireland and the real wealth of this country, which is the teenagers on the way to their exams.

They are the creativity of the future, but if they are lumbered with a huge tax bill to pay for stuff like Anglo, investors will see that their creativity is choked by debt and they will stay away from Ireland and invest in the young workers of Poland, South Korea or Brazil. These are the simple facts of globalisation.

This government has talked about the ‘‘smart economy’’. There is nothing smart about keeping Anglo open.

No investor minds a government spending €20 billion on education and infrastructure because it means the balance sheet will have an asset opposite the debt. But on our national balance sheet opposite the €20 billion is Anglo, with its treasure chest of worthless land and sites.

This simple accounting identity scares people.

Close it down. In the past 12months,141 banks were closed down in America and no one noticed.

Close it and move on.

David McWilliams performs Outsiders at the Peacock from Wednesday to July 3; www.abbeytheatre.ie


  1. wills

    David.

    One of your best opening two para’s for an article I think.

    • Bamboo

      When my children were in their teenage years, my wife and myself couldn’t tell them anything or give any advise. The more you tell them to do this or the other the more they go against you. One example is pocket money. They never had enough and when I told them they have plenty of pocket money, they will come with all sorts of examples of their friends receiving far more pocket money. They do anything to proof the parents wrong. Now that they have gone beyond their wild younger years they admit (reluctantly) that we were right after all.

      I can compare this gov with my teen-age children. David, the more you write about closing down ANGLO, the more this gov will ignore any such ideas. This sinister gov will never admit a mistake by closing down Anglo. You and many other commentators have many followers and closing down Anglo means admitting defeat. This also reminds me of a friend working in a bank in America many years ago. Something went wrong and he admitted he was wrong. By admitting he made a mistake he was subsequently sacked. Boy did he learn his lesson. You can make mistakes but never admit it.

      Because you have so many followers the gov will have to do the thing that they do best. They do opposite of what you say and write. The trick for the gov is to find a way how to bypass what you and other commentators write. But is becoming clear that this will not happen during the lifespan of this gov.

  2. wills

    David.

    I saw a movie last night entitled, ‘The International’, with Clive Owen.

    It hit’s the nail on the head with the back drop story in which we are all debating these issues.

    Everyone i urge everyone to rent it and watch it a.s.a.p

  3. wills

    David.

    I think it’s becoming clear the ‘insiders’ and ANGLO bondholders who are also it now appears, the power brokers in the engine room running Ireland have made a decision, for some time now, that, they are saving their own bacon and if it means a ‘funeral pyre’ so be it.

  4. ….slave traders , deceptors ….just pure liars .

  5. …yes lenny bacon &co …..real mob leaders who are rotten inside.

  6. David
    how do we make the politicians close it down?How do we make it happen. Are we powerless as the 2 Brians stumble on towards the abyss.

  7. Great article on the money.

    Coincidentally, over the weekend I was remembering the great loss to us of Alan Ruddock recently.

    I looked through some old newspapers incredulous at his passing. I was a fan of his as I am of D’s great efforts to restore some financial sense to our isle of political/financial/incompetence/corruption.

    Looking through some old newspapers, I found alan’s article, Sunday Independent, ‘Anglo The Rape Of A Nation/ Awestruck Despair over €90bn cost to fix banks’, written by him on 4th April.

    Direct, fearless witness of the truth was his hallmark.

    http://bit.ly/df0Q48

    Quantum Research for the Indo published stats, 81% of Irish people against the taxpayer paying off Anglo’s debts, 94% not believing we were being told the full truth on the total exposure of taxpayers to banking systems bad debts, 59% believing Anglo collapse would not jeopardise the future of AIB and/or BOI.

    Anglo needs to allowed die. ITs former management totally removed. A full in depth enquiry to call in the CAB if required. Instead the present cabal of political corruption/mismanagement obstruct all efforts to close it. The promised whistleblower bill is now dead and Anglo management are blocking attempts at an enquiry.Government will pour into its black hole between €20-€30bn of taxpayers money that will have no possible hope of return whatsoever. This money will be ultimately go into the coffers of French, German and Swiss bankrollers of the EMU who blew their fiduciary responsibility to intelligently coordinate and manage the development of the EU. They blew it, FF and the Government blew it. Moral hazard should ordain taxpayers should not have to pay for this.

    Anglo was not even a proper commercial bank with a branch network. It was a casino investment bank in the service of a handful of speculators/politicos.

    Lets not put taxpayers money into their pockets, e.g cost of debt servicing next year to exceed total budget on education.

    In memory of the great journalist, Alan Ruddock, lets finish the great work he began and put our collective shoulders to the wheel to bring down the great beast that is Anglo.

    • €20bn that’s the entire capital spend budget of the Dept Education & Science ( approx €900ml ) for 2008.

      €20bn is its entire spend over 22yrs aprox.

      How many schools, colleges, universities is that?

      http://bit.ly/amOEcn

      Saving Anglo means the banamarisation of Ireland Inc.

      Bailing out the banks at the expense of the taxpayer was done in Mexico circa 1994 and a decade later led to a legacy of a wider gulf between rich/poor in society.

      http://bit.ly/aRNSoV

      Bailing out Anglo is not only cuckoo, it’s bananas.

      Welcome to the bananarama, scamarama, banana republic of Ireland Inc.

  8. Malcolm McClure

    David: I have sometimes tried to convey the reality of large numbers to others. Your analogy (One million (1,000,000) seconds is 1.65 weeks or about 11 days. One billion (1,000,000,000) seconds is 31 years, eight months and 15 days. Twenty billion is more than 636 years!) doesn’t cut it, because time is another abstract concept.

    I prefer to use a comparison most people with access to a ruler can visualise. Rulers are calibrated in millimetres. Think of a piece of graph paper one metre wide and one metre long covered with millimetre squares. There will be a million squares on the paper. Now think of a tiny cube with sides one millimetre long and project the graph paper upwards for one metre to form a box. That box will contain one billion millimetre cubes. Now consider a stack of those boxes two metres wide, two metres high and five metres long. That stack will contain 20 Billion millimetre cubes.

    Okay. A single ten Euro note occupies a volume of 936 cubic millimetres or say one cubic centimetre. 2 billion 10 Euro notes with a value of 20 billion Euros will occupy
    a volume of 2000 cubic metres.
    That would be a stack 10 metres wide 10 metres wide and 20 metres long.
    It would fit inside 30 standard 40 foot truck containers.

    • SM

      Mmm. That actually doesn’t seem like all that much. Give it to me in double decker buses or football pitches. Blue Peter always used those units.

      • ak8

        Maybe, for a ruler analogy, the approximate number of milllimeters in a ruler that would stretch from Ireland to New Zealand (~19 billion).

    • Thermus B. Airgetinin

      Malcolm, I’ve read and appreciated many of you’re past contributions to these pages, but what the f**k is all this bullshit? How long did it take you to work out this totally irrelevent guff? Did you think that this bullshit cubic volume anology would clarify everything for us? Get real and stick to what you do best… giving an honest appraisal on David’s postings

      • Malcolm McClure

        Thermus: It was adjusted from file for another application.

        It raises an important point. There won’t be dozens of container lorries heading for Rosslare laden with dirty notes to make up the €20 billion or whatever. Most of this money never existed as honest earnings or industrial profits in the first place. It was just electronic bits whizzing round in the wires or sitting on a computer disk somewhere. It was mostly a figment of some banker’s imagination. That was the true genius of Seanie Fitz. He figured out a way to transform Ireland from Dev’s peasant paradise, dancing at the crossroads, into a modern, competitive, well-educated and skeptical society.
        The ECB has just woken up to his con and wants its money back. Instead of moaning about bankers and cutbacks we should just ask creditors to prove that their loans were derived from actual savings or profits and were not covered by credit default swaps. Only loans that satisfied these criteria at first remove would be considered for repayment. The rest, derived from leveraged loans from elsewhere could take a running jump.
        It’s time we made capitalism honest again.

  9. Malcolm McClure – my concept of Time as we should read it is best shown as :
    the code of before time and after time
    aka : da wu yu code
    imagining the dun aengus original circle and its distruction 10,000 years ago.
    Whatever you and I think it is so big that we both are irelevant anymore.
    On the news today 100,000 more young people will emmigrate within a year .
    Are we really Cuckoos ?

  10. Malcolm McClure

    John ALLEN: Last week you mentioned cuckoos and taxis just before the taxi driver Bird murders. Today its cuckoos and emigration. Whazz up?

    I heard an interview on Newstalk this morning with a ‘cuckoo’ American who claimed to be a Breatharian. He lives on fresh air and 2 McDonalds hamburgers washed down with diet coke taken once every 30 days. He too is expecting the millenium on 20/12/ 2012.
    How does that square with your philosophy Horatio?

  11. Malcolm McClure – there is one hell of a whole month of absolute chaos starting from 19th June for four weeks and nothing will prepare you what is yet to happen.It will embrace the physical , emotional and the intellectual breakdown we have never seen before.The advice to all is Slow Down to Stop.

  12. Malcolm McClure – the concept of cuckoo means are we as a nation building a nation to become a better nation and remain together building our culture as most countries do or are we just wanting to fuck and send away our chicks to a foreign land under deception and rob them of their identity?

  13. Leaving Cert is the certification of youth to get out and make way for the princelings and princesslings of the corrupted elite ruling the center of gravity of the country.

  14. begekel

    Alan Dukes as Minister of Finance in the mid 80s raised the VAT rate to 35%. At the same time the UK VAT rate in N. Ireland was 15%. The exodus of shoppers North economically crippled the border areas. He would be not my choice for Chairman of Anglo — I would seek somebody with some financial savvy.

    Strange- his successor as Minister of Finance Brian Lenihan pulled the same trick some 25 years later with much the same consequences. I fear the young people of Ireland do not have a great future ahead of them.

    • Tull McAdoo

      You are spot on there Begekel , you would think that the gobshites over at the DOF would have at least reminded Lenny of them facts before he launched his “border county” crushing scud missile. Surely to Jebus, Kevin Cardiff another on the list of overpaid, career, un-civil servants ( around 250k pa last count) would be able to advise Lenny on vat or was he to busy putting together the mother and father of all weapons of mass destruction i.e. NAMA. That’s the problem really we have the likes of Kevin and his predecessor David Doyle and neither suffer any consequences of their failings, even though they have been drawing top bucks for years thanks to the Taxpayers.
      It reminds me of something I wrote about FF some time ago, where I said that the gene pool that they draw from has been gradually diminishing, a bit like the Pelican who flew in ever decreasing circles until it flew up its own ass, or in the present case where the circle at Anglo became smaller and smaller until it disappeared into its own black hole, the pull of which has had an enormous detrimental effect on the Taxpayers finances.
      Look it, the dogs on the street at this stage can tell that the game is up for FF and their sidekicks the Amish. Cowen and Lenny and their handlers et al know full well that what ever they can smash and grab now is going to have to do them for a good while. They know it’s the opposition benches for a good few years, so they will steamroll any policies, they think will cushion them for the wilderness period. They can face their buddies in the future and say “ jasus boys we done all we could to get ye back what ye lost” and “ we kept all yere names out of the firing line where we could” and “ sure is’nt all our appointees still in place for when we get the levers back” and “ sure the fickle electorate will be bought again when they tire of all the austerity measures we bequeathed to the opposition” and so on it goes. Ever decreasing Circles……. Ever decreasing…….Ever…..

      • SM

        Was it not the Sterling difference that drove most of that trade? Surely .5% didn’t that much of a difference. Of course it still should have been lowered though.

        • Tull McAdoo

          Very true SM but I think the more relevant point is that Sterling is outside of our control, hence the comment on Lenny and vat. Vat was the only think Lenny could fcuk up in relation to the border counties and he did. It was one of the few things Calamity Coughlan was NOT happy to announce to her Gombeen supporters in Donegal.

        • gquinn

          The different between the Irish VAT rate and the UK VAT rate was 7%.

          UK Vat Rate was 15%
          Republic of Ireland VAT Rate was 22%

  15. On a more mundane note,I heard a story today about a local community/ resident group in Dublin 7, who have stopped paying the bin taxes.
    When one of their people are brought to court they are supported by a fund which is financed by contributions from their neighbors.
    How wonderful to see that grass roots groups are organizing to confront the Mafia who govern this country.
    I will investigate this phenomenon and keep you informed as I acquire more information.

  16. Ladies and Gentlemen: THE HONOURABLE ALAN DUKES….

    Right!

    Sure, but of course David, they are all honourable, Cowen, the Ahern’s, the O’Keefe’s, and all the numerous other siblings that are acting in Irish politics, Lenihan, Dukes, the whole bunch are nothing but honourable men David, what else.

    In the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the prefix Honorable is used for members of both chambers of the Parliament of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. May be we should start that here as well, and request all members of the political class in ireland to be adressed as such. Informally, senators are sometimes given the higher title of Venerable.

    Hey, I’d like that here….Ladies and Gentlemen… The Venerable Alan Dukes, Chairman of Anglo….

    Yeah, really Folks, let us not forget that we are governed by honourable people left, right and center, so what’s to worry? We know how much they cared for the will of the people, and how little they looked after themselves. -Cough cough.-

    Then again, just thinking may be we should give Mr. Dukes a prefix of Your Worship instead, now that he is in charge of Anglo Irish, really, how about that?

    As a “Duke” however, he would only be entitled to ‘Most Noble’ in the twisted brains of british aristocracy.

    Word games aside, I take it you noticed that Gov. is looking for a banking guarantee extension to the end of the year already.

    Mark my words, by then Operation FIINANCIAL OSMOSIS has been finalized, and no one will be able to uncover the truth about Anglo anymore.

    The papers that are prepared as we speak for the public eye will be full of BS and avoiding the right questions and relentlessly continue to cover up Anglo’s true activities and connections that the political and economical establishment is intertwined with for quite some time.

    The appointment of ‘Your Worship’ Alan Dukes has been nothing short but scandalous, and I question the sanity of the financial regulator to accept this venerable gentleman in the position that he holds.

  17. It is highly unlikely that any of the mandarins in merrion square will have disclosed any part of my professional banking report to the ‘national crime forum made in 1998 ‘, to dept of finance when making public their findings today.
    Their game is ‘shove it up your arse’ ‘its none of your fcking business’.

  18. Don’t know if putting Irish taxpayers on the tab against their will has any parallels with the seizure of white landowners land in Uganda, but the story of Mike Campbell is an excellent documentary. It does echo the eviction predicament fears of many at the present time as they lose hope in a Nama for the people. As the will of Irish taxpayers is being denied by Government, bankocracy replacing democracy, banks taking over homes, is this where were goin? Enjoy.
    http://bit.ly/byuSgg

    • Tull McAdoo

      2. Tull McAdoo says
      I suppose with Derek Quinlan leading the “flight of the wild geese” from our shores to join the rest of the high powered tax exiles, now that things have gone sour, and Cowen using his best bullyboy, dictator ways, with pensioners, special needs children, SR technic workers, and basically anyone who has no choice but to take his crap, it is only possible to come to one conclusion ( ECB has spared us from hyperinflation)……Put on your green sash Brian….. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsoeW6JBN-Q&feature=related
      February 19, 2010, 10:52 am Log in to Reply

  19. cbweb – I remember some years ago I had an appointment in Hotel George V in Paris( posh place) with a client of mine from Geneve .On the day Mugabe was at an International Conference there.As I was entering the hotel alone there were lots of police and protesters .Somehow like the cartoon Mr Magoo I walked through the cordon effortlessly unknowningly what really the signifance of the protest was.
    After entering the place was full of black people dressed in armanis and the women were wearing gold all over themselves.It was amazing just to watch it .I sat myself down in the coffee shop and was served by this waiter who spoke perfect French.Somehow he said to me was I Irish and I confirmed I was and spoke then in impecable cockney English .I asked him where did he come from and he said the gaeltacht in connemara .I was astonished and he said a few words in Irish to me.I became numb .How did he transcend all the worlds so fast in his few years .After he served both me and my client coffee and cake we left .My Swiss client said to me ,’he is gay.

  20. 1.00 EUR = 1.19096 USD

    Euro beginning to head to the bottom and IBEC

    http://bit.ly/aaV7IH

    “However, it warns that the emerging recovery here and elsewhere could be choked off if financial market stress over Europe’s sovereign debt crisis continues for a number of months.”

    You know IBEC, KOWN gang will still be telling us we’re forging ahead when our currency has changed from the euro to ‘the turnip’ or ‘the cabbage’.

    What stocks are those two items used for?.lol.

  21. Tull McAdoo

    Cbweb, not sure what your concern is about the Euro falling back to its proper weighting is about. Based on the ECB link below the Euro should trade in a band from parity to 1.10USD. It should also trade between 70 and 75 pence Sterling. Look at the all time or 10year range for both curriencies. The rise in the Euro from about 2002 onwards was more a symptom of rising credit availability than any underlying strength based on sustainability. The Euro versus the yuan maybe of more interest to the Germans than the Irish.
    As for the fool from IBEC they wheeled out for the comment you posted, well what can you say, except that they seem to be more concerned about sentiment in the Financial Markets than they are about Export competitiveness. As Deco noted before Green Party TD Ryan has said on record that “Banks were more important that factories”, so nothing new there methinks.
    Just as a thought , do you think that by the way things are being prioritised at the moment, that the “insiders” are more concerned about their Financial market participation, than any return of the Real Economy to Real growth like the original Celtic Tiger.??? Link to ECB below cheers……
    http://www.ecb.europa.eu/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-usd.en.html

    • Malcolm McClure

      Tull McAdoo: That link provides the full picture of the EUR/USD exchange rate variation. Gold rose 1.5% today to $1250/oz before falling back . Oil is down to about $72/barrel. (My preferred ratio of about 17 seems to be back in business.)
      On 1st January 2002 when Euro was introduced gold price was about $278. Oil was about $23/barrel. (Ratio 12)
      Thus real inflation multiple is somewhere between 3 (oil) and 4.5 (gold) since the euro was introduced. Over that period the average house price in Ireland has risen from €198,000 to about €300,000 at peak and has since dropped back.
      Three lessons:
      1. gold or oil would have been a better investment than housing in 2002.
      2. houses are cheap at the moment compared with gold rated devaluation of the dollar and euro..
      3. All these austerity measures are designed to reduce our income back to the level at which we need to work three times harder to afford a pint of Guinness.
      http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKLDE64Q1OF20100608

  22. stage act – I think David will have difficulty mincing his words on stage during his play .If he was reading this blog how can not do so .Imagine him saying : klown instead of cowen or lenny instead of lenihan or drink cabinet instead of the government cabinet or slave trader instead of market trader and lots more.Its like doing the french orals

  23. [...] Anglo to save Ireland (http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/06/07/kill-anglo-to-save-ireland) all independent minded people should take the time to [...]

  24. @Tull,

    Re your link. Dropping euro on the surface good for euro re exports, but i know this is freaking Bernanke. Currency volatility is not liked by the US especially with the nervous US auto industry.
    http://bit.ly/9GEt89
    Under the surface there is a Dr Doom question to do with the euro diving below the dollar and what this effect would have on the dollar and global meltdown. From the url above Bernanke said a trillion dollars was the war chest available provided by the eurozone to prop up ailing parts of the eurozone. I heard this am it was €440bn not the €750bn originally promised, but maybe €290bn already gone on Greece? The real questions are, does the ECB have enough to prop up all the PIIGS, I don’t believe so; secondly, do the bondholder banks want to pour all this money into these PIIG Anglos. I think the answer to both questions should be No. If yes, will austerity measures alone solve the debt problems, No. So then what? Two tier Europe? Break up of the EMU with debt for equity swaps? Bottomline, the EMU hasn’t worked and German, French, Swiss bondholder banks are up to their necks in a game of credit default swaps with the markets. They are exposed to bad lending to the PIIGS. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Germany is a bit like Quinn Insurance at the moment, trading well but its bet on PIIGS. D describes calling in the administrator, maybe its time for the EMU to call in the administrator for the EMU?

  25. SLICKMICK

    http://www.irishtimes.com-looks as if a lot of the insiders were aware of seanie’s arrangement with ILP.End of the line for the cronies?.

    • @slickmick could you give full url cheers

    • Dilly

      Biggest fraud on the history of the state. But, will anyone bother pursuing FF and their cronies over this ?.

    • Dilly

      With Anglo listed on the stock market, surely someone outside of Ireland can now go after these guys. We all know that here in Ireland, it will be swept under the carpet with the rest of the dirt. The opposition will not bother their hole, they never have done in the past.

  26. wills

    @Tull Mcdoo,

    You posted @21

    ‘Just as a thought , do you think that by the way things are being prioritised at the moment, that the “insiders” are more concerned about their Financial market participation, than any return of the Real Economy to Real growth like the original Celtic Tiger.???’

    It baffles me that most people process and assimilate ANGLO and NAMA through the lens of it been in context with free market capitalism.

    NAMA and ANGLO are projects devised by power elites to preserve power OVER free market capitalism.

    • also http://bit.ly/9kFhU1

      yep, case their for embezzlement, prosecutions to include Central Bank and Regulator defendants, alas no, it seems. Also same page above “GOLDMAN RESPONSE ‘RUBBISH’ – US PROBE CHIEF – The Financial Times says the US Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission has accused Goldman Sachs of an ‘abysmal’ response to requests for information and has issued a subpoena to compel the bank to provide documents and executives for interviews.” Last week we had news of Anglo’s refusal to hand over emails ‘commercially sensitive’ (read legally sensitive) to banking inquiry. Question is does Justive Kelly have the right to ‘subpoena’ or compel access to these documents?

      • Someone should get Dukes on record about this obstruction of the banking inquiry? Why assume Dukes is honourable or that he knows anything about banking? Appears to me he’s a shoe in to keep the lid on Anglo and carry out the FF agenda to keep Anglo and cronies open for business at all costs. Its not honour to be a political turncoat and put your own ambition above that of the taxpayer? Pretender Banker Play Actor Dukes speaks with forked tongue, what’s he hiding in Anglo that he doesn’t want us to see? Its not likely he’ll turn whistle blower. On the other hand, perhaps he’s a victim of his own illusions and delusions and actually believes Anglo should remain open. If so, we should have sympathy for him!

  27. Hi All,
    I got this of the Irishtimes.com
    it has since been taken down
    but not before I posted it on the blog here http://www.thepressnet.com
    This is shocking confirmation that the Irish Government was aware and indeed encouraged this attempt to falsely bolster Anglo Irish Banks financial health in the run-up to its collapse.
    This opens the way for a class action law suit, against the instigators of the country’s biggest fraud .The Irish financial regulator, the Department of Finance and the Irish Government are now exposed for what they are and no international financial agency can cover this up
    The credit ratings are now obliged to re-rate this country’s financial status and bring us on par with Greece
    Only a few weeks ago we were told “we are not like Greece “
    With these new revelations, we are not the same were worse!
    With gangsters running our country we have no hope of ever getting out of our current financial mess
    Brian Lenihan and Brian Cowen must resign immediately and be brought to trial for fraud,
    All the CEO’s of the affected financial instustions and their boards must resign and be brought before the courts on fraud charges
    All shareholders must now be compensated as they are the victims of insider dealing and attempt of fraud that ultimately destroyed the financial creditability of the implicated financial instustions
    The Dail should be recalled and the implicated minsters should be asked to resign and face the courts on corruption charges
    A general election must now be called

    • Colin_in_exile

      Great work Machholz,

      I agree 100%. Hopefully the House of Cards will collapse soon, the sooner the better for this country and all of us.

      Also, tonight on RTE1, The Limits Of Liberty is essential viewing, as last week, Diarmaid Ferriter discovered that the way we’ve been governeD since the foundation of the state has been shocking – “The Limits of Liberty is the story of Irish Independence. How governments of the early decades of independence were preoccupied with one overriding issue, power. Power held by small elites in what would become one of the most centralised countries in Europe.”

    • Malcolm McClure

      Macholtz: I heard this on Newstalk this morning in review from the Irish Times. When I tried to follow the link it had been taken down, so someone must be seriously worried. Thanks for the copy.

    • gquinn

      I have been saying this all along. It’s actually very obvious and that is why I was shorting all the bank stock especially Anglo because Isaw it as a risk free bet.

      I would advise peole to read the book called: “The GreatCrash of 1929″ by Kenneth Galbraith. In the book you will see the exact same shennanigans been played out today as it was back then. The bottomline is that people do not change.

      When a bull market is in progress and if you talk about being prudent and that values are way too high then people start to accuse you of talking down the market etc.

  28. PS
    SLICKMICK 24
    Your link is also down
    Someone does not want people to know something and information is getting out that shouldn’t
    next time cut and paste

    • ILP info has been in the public domain since immediately after the Anglo meltdown? It seems Casey was to be the fall guy. But it seems he’s a whistleblower who won’t shut up. Well done, Casey:

      “http://bit.ly/9mLbBJ

      “In his statement, Mr Casey claims that the September 2008 transaction arose from encouragement by Pat Neary, the chief executive of the regulator, and John Hurley, governor of the Central Bank the previous March, when they requested ILP to participate in the so-called “Green Jersey Agenda”.

      Casey claims the Department of Finance, the regulator and the Central Bank knew of the ILP deposits into Anglo before the bank’s results in December 2008 but that “no effective intervention was made at the time by any of the agencies to scrutinise or influence the manner in which Anglo reported that transaction”.

      Concerned that investigators — the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation and the Director of Corporate Enforcement — have not yet contacted him, Mr Casey has taken it upon himself to volunteer a sworn statement and submit it to them and the Financial Regulator.”

      Surely Neary and Hurley should be answerable for this before the courts?

  29. The “green Jersy ” brigade was another version of the Plunge Protection Team (PPT)
    LOL.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3RIWNRpisI&feature=player_embedded

    • @southofdub
      thx for link

      PPT are not powerpoints, they are power points though:)

      I’d say Caroline Baum is absolutely right. Bilderberg/Goldmann/ppt are bigtime in there at the moment working/coordinating with the ECB trying to stabilise the euro. Problem is they’re the villian deregulators/financial hogs who’ve wound up the system till its at its present breaking point. All they want is more leverage to wind it up further.

      Problem is even their power is at a loss to stop the black hole PIIGS sucking the euro back to nothin through their huge losses.

      Only way to move forward is to watch/let it kaboom as happened US in 2008. New new Basel 11 type regulatory framework for bank capitalisation plus forcing banks to write down losses should be done asap.

      Are we likely to get this? On our own example, not likely. What’s bailout doing here? Creating employment to stimulate the economy and get people to work?
      Getting lending going? No, its buying crap from banks that no one else would buy.

      We have stupid crap bankrolling the bankrupt foul regimes like our own with trillion dollar ECB bailouts.

      Banks will put the money into their own pockets e.g Anglo and pour more down their own black holes and continue to do as before driving PIIG economies into the dust. That’s whats happening here with the dumb support of Trichet’s ECB.

      ECB bankrolling of the bankrupt PIIGS aint gonna work without huge systemic reforms.

      Austerity for the taxpayer and not for the banks nonsense doesn’t cut it. The ECB have to be held accountable for support of the bailout of Anglo, if this policy is replicated across the EMU as I’m sure it is, the euro is going down and deservedly so.

      Unless the EMU can come up with some smart way to fix this in favour of taxpayers across Europe and not in favour of predator banks?

      Perhaps a Swedish model, a period of conservatorship for all the banks for say 6 months across Europe/ a firesale of all property/ new regulations for lenders/borrowers(Danish model)/a wind down of banks who can’t cut the 20% capitalisation/borrowing rule.

      A new blueprint for a fairer economic order required asap.

  30. Tim

    Surely not?

    http://bit.ly/9Orthk

    What, now, if true?

    • Malcolm McClure

      Tim:
      Nothing on 9:00 pm RTE news about this.
      Cruel if untrue. Shattering if true.

    • Malcolm McClure

      Tim
      Fake . Bethan Kilfoil is spelt differently.
      Please be careful with unattributed reports.

    • BrianMc

      It’s a “hidden article” indymedia.org.uk. How did you get wind of it.

    • gquinn

      Good fucking ridence. I hope its true at least that’s Gods way of getting rid of the vermin and it will do the country good as well.

      One down and 165 more to go.

      • BrianMc

        I hope you’ll reconsider your comment when you have sobered up.

        • gquinn

          Not a fucking chance. In fact I personally think everyone in the Dail should be rounded up and fucking hung by the neck until dead.

          I personally think what the politicans have done to our country and what the next three thats three fucking generations are ruined in this country.

          The time for keeping our mouths shut is over its now time for a revolution to over through and kill the political class.

          • Thermus B. Airgetinin

            I can see where you’re anger is coming from and so can the rest of the country but hanging and killing will solve nothing… unless you can get them to the vacinity of a Union Carbide plant where, I’m told, you can gas tens of thousands (never mind 165) of people, with little or no fear of punishment.

          • Agree they’ve done a helluva amount of damage. To survive in most situations you need anger management and ability to use your reasoning powers. Lose these are yu’re done for. Try getting a brain to get them em back!
            Dancing can help, but no jigs and reels, see here:)
            http://bit.ly/dvjuLP
            Or read something on Nelson Mandela..

          • BrianMc

            Kill the political class, and then do what.
            Have you thought it through.

            The guy’s got pancreatic cancer. He is a husband & Dad.
            And, you apparently believe in God.

    • Where did you get the information about the link above?

    • BrianMc

      “Tim”,

      Perhaps you could let us know how you became aware of a news update that indymedia hid.
      Were you involved in posting it on indymedia..
      The administrators of this site might be interested in your evidence.

      • BrianMc

        “Tim”,

        Your lack of evidence or denial implicates you.
        Assuming you are implicated, I wonder how you feel about what you did.
        Don’t worry, you are not alone.
        When I lived in Ireland I encountered a lot of people who entertained themselves by creating false stories about others. It’s was a cultural habit, still practised evidently.

        Cheers.

  31. BrianMc

    indymedia.org.uk should be forcibly closed down.

  32. Bethan Kilfoil is a responsible journalist over 10yrs for RTE, a few days ago was reporting from Chad, Africa.

    http://bit.ly/cwrRWR

    Report refers 6pm, news uploaded to website 6.15pm this evening.

    Journalist John Downing, Bethan’s husband, is Green Party Deputy Government Press Secretary!

    http://bit.ly/bX40tg

    Looks like a very weird, nasty hoax!

    • 1st par above refers to earlier date for Chad. Still looks like a nasty hoax!

      • email address given is false:

        The following message to was undeliverable.
        The reason for the problem:
        5.1.1 – Bad destination email address ‘reject’

        Final-Recipient: rfc822;bethankillfoil@rte.ie
        Action: failed
        Status: 5.0.0 (permanent failure)
        Diagnostic-Code: smtp; 5.1.1 – Bad destination email address ‘reject’ (delivery attempts: 0)

  33. If this sort of drivel is allowed a public audience without moderation, we deserve to be shut down.
    This can’t happen again, at all. It’s completely dispicable.

  34. @Furrylugs,

    I reported it to the indymedia.org website, not heard back. Also reported it to RTE and got a decent thank you, information as I requested, to be passed on to Bethan. I replied to RTE with the following:
    “No worries, if you do have any follow up information following an investigation, please let me know. I as a contributor to http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/06/07/kill-anglo-to-save-Ireland found the information posted innocently by a member who found the information elsewhere. Members like myself would not like to in any way be associated with such nasty false information based on dirty tricks of the lowest form.”

    Obviously powers that be would not like democratic views expressed on this site, so I don’t know if the dirty tricks were targeting this site or any other site that would publish it, you’ll have to make your own mind up on that!

    Each of us including me should make an effort to make posts as informative/entertaining as possible and on no account let crap eg gquinn above go unnoticed or unchallenged. Kudos to Malcolm McClure and myself for catching the ball:)

  35. Re Banking inquiry due for publication today. The word is Cowen
    is criticised and given a large chunk of blame. Happy days are gone when he could blame Lehman’s on it all. Given his even worse record post meltdown with support of Anglo and crazy giveaway/takeaway Nama, may I humbly ask for his immediate resignation and a general election. How can the Amish stand idly by, surely their conscience still not lost?

  36. MK1

    Hi David,

    I’m a bit late coming to you on this article. I agree with you that Anglo shouldn’t have been supported by the state. But by an equal measure the so-called ‘systemic banks’ of BOI and AIB should have not had equivalent support either.

    Any bank that excessively leveraged itself and lent in the credit frenzy should not have been rewarded with support. There should have been branch and root reform and we should have come out with utility banking only.

    > But on our national balance sheet opposite the €20 billion is Anglo, with its treasure chest of worthless land and sites. Close it down.

    Its not a simple case of closing Anglo down. All bad banks should be treated equally. We should not have guaranteed the loans back in 2008, and we should be steppoing out of that now whilst retaining the guarantee on deposits to a level of 100k.

    All banks should be ‘reshaped’ into new entities, perhaps with outside Good Bank operational support and ownership.

    MK1

    • Agree with what you say re reform of other banks also, but also absolutely necessary to close Anglo, its systemically criminal bank status, criminal lending policies, various illegalities, wild west systemic bad management, damage to the Irish economy, rewarded by us to the tune of €22bn, crazy sign of a massive corruption within our economy. Proper reform won’t take place until it goes!

  37. Saw David’s one man show last night ( “Outsiders” )
    Not much new there, to what his fans have read in his many articles-however an entertaining summary of his writings/philosophy re Anglo Irish Bank and the property bubble debacle for those who have not been tracking his journalism.
    Besides the story always comes across better when presented in person!
    It was one hour and three quarters -without an intermission when I checked my watch, but he held our attention so well that, it was only during the last 15 minutes that I grew a little restless for an interval..
    Well done David.
    Do think about doing it in two parts though.

  38. News Lenny the hen cuckolded by bankers and Trichet et al for his doomed support for Anglo and the doomed NAMA travesty, now recovering from pancreatic cancer, is to mount a challenge to Clowen for the leadership of this ship of fools…..wonders never cease…..meanwhile Bruton to mount a similar heave against Kenny, what a dreadful lack lustre
    support Kenny has got from his front benchers including that from silent Bruton whose position on the banking crisis often has to be prised out of him…..politics Ireland sorely needs reform, folks. Only consistent effort to stop the rot from the bankers has come from ILP, fair dues to Gilmore’s recent rise in the polls from the political wilderness

  39. unfortunately Gilmore could not persuade Labour to break the link with the big (public service) unions and “go it alone” as an independent Party.
    One reason not to vote for them.
    Labour are a bunch of opportunists,-political “prostitutes” who will sell out to Fianna Fail again if the nations well paid secure jobbed public servants are protected from the coming storm.
    There is no political life in Ireland.Just a liquorice allsorts bag of assorted self serving opportunistic people waiting to join the” Mercedes set” with their fairy lifestyle of massive salaries;obscene expenses; secure pensions;and foreign junkets lifestyle.
    Meanwhile screw the people who have already been mugged for the taxes to keep bankrupt institutions afloat ad infinitum.

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