April 19, 2010

Time for administration?

Posted in Debt · 115 comments ·

Watching the Quinn administration saga unfold, I couldn’t help wondering when Ireland would be put into administration.

The reason Quinn is in trouble is because we are in trouble. In fact, the business model of Quinn and the business model of Ireland Inc were remarkably similar. Both came a cropper due to massive borrowing on one asset: Anglo in the Quinn case and property in the case of the country.

When you look at the country, the prognosis – given what happened in Greece in the past few days – is not good. If we are borrowing €500 million to stay afloat, if growth is negative, prices are falling, people are defaulting and our total debt/GDP ratio is exploding, Ireland is not too different to a company trading recklessly. Where, with all these debts, are we going to get the cash to pay back the present borrowing?

If the country continues to borrow and borrow, it will wither on the vine. Is it time to do a deal with our creditors, rather than promise everyone that we can pay back everything when we clearly can’t?

The whole point of examinership – or administration in the case of an insurance company – is to prevent liquidation. This is what the management of Quinn has acceded to for its insurance arm, for the sake of the workers and policyholders. What about the workers and stakeholders in Ireland Inc? Where do we stand? What is our management doing to ensure that we have a future?

To see how close national liquidation could be, we only have to look at what has happened to Greece last week. Recently, this column wrote the following about the eurozone/IMF bailout of Greece, which was announced over the weekend and welcomed by mainstream economists as the solution to Greece’s problems:

‘‘I sense that smart bond investors will use any putative EU bailout as the last opportunity to sell. The clumsy ones will buy, believing the government and brokers’ spin. But as they realise that Greece’s problems haven’t gone away, the positive euphoria accompanying the EU bailout of Greece will dissipate.”

And so it came to pass.

The initial commentary suggested that the bailout would embolden investors to believe the Greek stabilisation plan. This would lead to investors buying Greek debt, because they would believe that the Greeks would respond to the eurozone/IMF pressure. But, as I suspected, after a few days of euphoria, the markets slumped and the Greeks said they were finalising preparations to apply for the bailout money.

This is the endgame for Greece and the process of defaulting is now in train. The issue now is about the pace, rather than the direction, of events. The problem is that the market isn’t prepared to lend to Greece – bailout backstop or no backstop. It is shut to Greece.

By the way, we just lost the €480 million that we pledged last Sunday to give Greece, because this money will be used to buy Greek bonds, which hedge funds are now selling. So our cash will go to bolster the balance sheet of financial players speculating against Greece, because – as they say – for every seller, there has to be a buyer.

Unfortunately, that buyer of Greek bonds is our government using borrowed money to buy Greek bonds when even the Greek public is selling.

How mad is that?

With events in Greece moving rapidly towards a conclusion, the markets are now likely to turn their attention to Spain, a country where 40 per cent of men under the age of 30 are on the dole. How much pain can Spain take? The rules of the euro demand that Spain cut its expenditure now. This is practically impossible.

We are now firmly gripped by the logic which caused the gold standard to blow apart in the 1930s.The members of the gold standard tried to maintain their reserves of gold in the middle of the depression by cutting expenditure.

This made things worse and ultimately led to the gold standard being dropped. Once it was dropped, the economies started to recover, after doing deals with creditors and injecting new cash via the printing presses.

This is what should happen in Europe, but won’t because of political attachment to the euro project. So we will go through a pointless exercise – like the one we are going through with Greece – but next time it will be bigger and it will prolong the recession.

Next, the eurozone will have to put together a bailout for Spain. Given that Spanish GDP is over four times that of Greece, let’s assume the bailout will have to be over four times bigger. So that means that Ireland will have to pledge nearly €2 billion to defend the Spanish bond market in the next few weeks.

Where are we going to get this cash? Will we borrow the cash from the European Central Bank (ECB) in order to pretend that we have the firepower to back up our euro credentials?

Ultimately, the markets’ guns will focus on us, as they did in 1993 during the currency crisis. Back then, it didn’t matter that we argued Ireland was different. The markets saw a currency to be attacked and they went for it. The same is likely to happen to our bond market.

Do we have a Plan B figured out if and when this comes to pass? My fear is that we will adopt the position of the Quinn Group up to recently, which is to try to carryon as if nothing is wrong. This makes the situation worse because, when the blowout comes, it is much more severe because the room to manoeuvre is so tight.

The Quinn Group, like Ireland, has a decent future. However, the levels of debt which both are carrying make it almost impossible for either entity to achieve its full potential. The creditors of both have a choice: do they try to get all their money now and risk the company just imploding trying to pay all the debts? Do the creditors let the bad bits of the company destroy the good bits?

The management also has a choice. They can carry on trading, ignoring the new realities, or they can cut a deal.

The management of the Quinn Group has been forced to conclude that putting the insurance company into administration would be the best deal for policyholders, workers and the group in general.

It might not be the best solution for the shareholders, management or creditors, but it is the only way the company can survive. In the long term, the creditors will be better off with a company that grows, rather than one which folds now. After all, the smaller part of a growing pie is better than a big bit of nothing.

Are we going to wait until we implode like Greece? It doesn’t matter that we don’t consider ourselves to be in the same boat; the markets are looking at our debt dynamics and seeing that, although our government debt is not nearly as bad as that of Greece, our private sector debt is far, far greater and all that private debt has to be serviced.

Equally, Nama and Anglo Irish are in the process of doubling the national debt with no perceptible increase in assets on the other side of the balance sheet. We know Anglo is a black hole and, the way things are going, the next time Brendan McDonagh is back in front of the Oireachtas, the Nama ‘assets’ will look worse than they are now.

So do we have a default plan? Is the government drawing up a set of scenarios to address the day that the contagion spreads from Greece to Spain and Portugal and then to us? Like the bank crisis, up until the last minute, they will accuse those who pointed out that the banks were flirting with bankruptcy of ‘dangerous talk’, ‘loose talk’ and, ultimately, of being ‘unpatriotic’.

What was that about patriotism being the last refuge of the scoundrel?

  1. roc

    Time for court trials.

    It is clear to any sane person at this stage that sytemic institutional wrong-doing has been perpetrated on the people of this country .

    We need to clearly pathologise it in our social and cultural norms.

    Until we do that, the malaise will continue to fester.

  2. Currently, it seems that I can not access the live broadcast of the oireachtas.


    Anyone here successfully getting the flash to play?

  3. Spot on, D.

    True patriots tell it like it is. Keep on telling it like it is.

    Treasonous and delusional self serving pillagers who’ve destroyed the economy in the process ain’t patriots.

    The blindfolds are coming off as reality hits. Thanks D and thx to others on this list I’ve learned a lot from.

    Keep the good info and links coming on this oasis of sanity on bananas namaland.


  4. [...] default, Greece by John P. Muldoon David McWilliams, in this week’s Sunday Business Post column, says a Greek sovereign default is imminent. As I noted here last week, both he and MIT economist, [...]

  5. “Equally, Nama and Anglo Irish are in the process of doubling the national debt with no perceptible increase in assets on the other side of the balance sheet” – no dispute with Anglo though the Government claim the cost of letting Anglo go bust is “too great to countenance”. But is it a little unfair to claim that NAMA’s purchases (which have pushed up our debt) don’t have assets underpinning them. NAMA told the Oireachtas last week that some assets had dropped by 90% (and remember the loans may not be at the peak so the drop from peak could be 90%-plus) and their payments and valuations reflected that. Brendan McDonagh gives the impression that he will pursue the objectives he has through NAMA with zeal, and I think it’s a bit unfair to say all the work they have put in at NAMA so far won’t result in any “perceptible asset” for the nation.

    • paulmcd

      Namawinelake, I think that wine in your lake may be have a petroleum nose, be quite acidic to on the palate and may leave a KEROSENE aftertaste.

      Whatever you do, DO NOT LIGHT UP A CIGARETTE, or stand next to anyone doing so.

  6. Original-Ed

    Once again, David is way ahead! – where to from here?

    Damien Kiberd – Sunday Times
    “Clearly, the markets believe a default by Greece is still likely. The Greek debt-GDP ratio will go through 120% this year, which is the same level we will hit at the end of next year.
    Which country in the eurozone will next be targeted by speculators? Will it be Portugal or Spain? Or Ireland? As the crisis spreads, the Germans will be more, not less, truculent.
    Our capacity to deal with the debt issue is poor. We are now in a perma-slump, a classic debt-deflation crisis.”

  7. G

    Gilmore was on to something when he said Cowen was ‘guilty of economic treason’ – he was not alone!

    • Deco

      Gilmore would want to be careful. He might end up being liable for his own insults. He spent a lot of the last ten years bemoaning the fact that FF were not spending enough money on projects that he wanted them to spend money on.

      And I don’t remember any member of the ILP ever recommending that FF put resources aside for the rainy day. In fact the ILP made it their business to attack FF on any attempt that FF ever threatened to make to either deflate the boom, or to prepare for the rainy day.

      • liam

        Deco, absolutely no question, he was asleep like everybody else. However, how we got here is largely an academic debate as there is fcuk-all we can do about it. What we are going to do about it is where there are options.

        On that second point alone Gilmore is correct, morally, if not legally.

        (Disclosure: I have no official or casual party affiliation with Labour or anybody else)

  8. G

    “Like the bank crisis, up until the last minute, they will accuse those who pointed out that the banks were flirting with bankruptcy of ‘dangerous talk’, ‘loose talk’ and, ultimately, of being ‘unpatriotic’.”

    Reminds me of M. K. Gandhi’s line:
    “First they ignore you, then they condemn you, then they say they agreed with you all along”.

  9. It just goes to show how delusional people can be. The Eurozone is doing everything they can to plaster over its problems, but its not fixing the cause that is trade deficits with nations like China and low interest rates causing real estate bubbles.

    The Eurozone is going to try print its way out of trouble, but that will lead to a debt spiral and then to distract the population they will create a phony war to distract its citizens and use it as an excuse to abuse civil liberties. If you think that sounds far fetched, think again. This sort of thing has happened over and over throughout history.

    So with all the monetising of debt, more attention will be paid to hard currencies aka precious metals. When the likes of the London Metals Exchange defaults and all the market manipulation is exposed the shit will hit the fan and the game will be up.

    Saving silver is the way to go to at least sleep peacefully at night and not have to worry about all the fuck ups governments are making.

    • s1lverbullet

      The Germans are the ones who released all this debt on us in the first place

    • Seamus26

      That paper is “The Sun” for upper working class britons who have made money as trades people, store managers, property etc, its a nonsense rag, just w/o the bright colours

      Germany are an export economy, a weak euro suits them, derailing the Euro project by leaving the currency
      would automatically start a chain reaction of defaults, mainly on money owed to them.

  10. When I was a young man I visited Greece every year for annual holiday. Then their currency devalued by about 20% every year.They lived happily with this “controlled” inflation.
    They then joined the Euro.
    Methinks,nothing really changed their old habits.

  11. MK1

    Hi David,

    > Both came a cropper due to massive borrowing on one asset: Anglo in the Quinn case and property in the case of the country.

    Not exactly, Quinn are in difficulty because they have over-extended on credit lines which were semi-backed by property and which have gone down. They doubled their debt-quagmire by ‘betting’ on the bank that had loaned them the money, so lost more than they should have. The fact that Ireland’s richest man, doesnt have about 150m euro to shore up his insurance business is a sign that perhaps he was never worth 4.2billion. Assets must always be netted off against loans.

    > our total debt/GDP ratio is exploding, Ireland is not too different to a company trading recklessly.

    Or traded recklessly. People are throwing stones at the banks etc, but thats like throwing stones at a bar-owner who has supplied the drunks with too much liquor, but there was no-one checking the licencing laws nor prosecuting (or threatening to) any bar-owners that gave people too much drink.

    The ultimate blame HAS TO lie with the regulators and politicians that control and establish the regulators. So simply put, that’s Ahern, Cowen, McCreevy and to a lesser extent Lenihan.

    > If the country continues to borrow and borrow, it will wither on the vine. Is it time to do a deal with our creditors, rather than promise everyone that we can pay back everything when we clearly can’t?

    But we can pay a lot back, and we should, all we need to do is work harder, smarter and drive efficiency. And a bloated public sector is not efficiency. There are answers. Laziness like the Greeks and avoiding tax is not what gets rewarded.

    > This is what the management of Quinn has acceded to for its insurance arm, for the sake of the workers and policyholders.

    No, it did it for itself as it had to. It had no choice.

    > Greece’s problems haven’t gone away

    Greec’s case is problematic fro ma number of angles. For one, they didnt have a massive credit frenzy and property bubble like many countries did. Their problem is like our public sector problem only bigger, plus they cooked their own books. Spain and Ireland’s problems were/are property-bubble-based. Greece is for now the whipping boy, but its not contagion, its focus, focus on different problems.

    > This is the endgame for Greece and the process of defaulting is now in train.

    Greece can still avoid default IF it takes the bull by the horns and brings in reforms quickly and gathers its taxes. It has to get tough, but people will resist it. And sure wouldnt anyone as an individual take a bailout?

    > How much pain can Spain take? The rules of the euro demand that Spain cut its expenditure now.

    The problems with the euro ‘project’ is that ALL countries are breaking the rules. The euro may break up but only if ALL countries agree that it is best to do so.

    > Will we borrow the cash from the European Central Bank (ECB) in order to pretend that we have the firepower to back up our euro credentials?

    Everyone will, thats what central banks and quatitative easing is all about.

    > Ultimately, the markets’ guns will focus on us

    One problem that the euro system has is that euro-bonds are not centralised like US federal bonds. So there are German euro bonds, Greek ones, Irish ones, etc. There should be Euro-federal bonds for the euro currency to work properly but the political establshment were against it. So its a quasi currency with soft and bendable rules. It could break yes, but we here in Ireland would be foolish to jump ship now, even if we think its sinking.

    > My fear is that we will adopt the position of the Quinn Group up to recently, which is to try to carryon as if nothing is wrong.

    I agree, people will …

    > So do we have a default plan?

    of course we dont! However, I dont think we are on the brink of an Ireland default yet nor should we think of it as a solution.


    • G

      I remember RTE/Pravda last summer with Sean Quinn, repeating in ape-like fashion, that Sean Quinn was worth €7-8 billion, we now know a little bit more about that apparent falsehood, indeed, they never examined his supposed ‘financial empire’ – absurdity layered on farce!

    • Original-Ed

      > But we can pay a lot back – how much is a lot? a politicians metric

      > all we need to do is work harder, smarter and drive efficiency – so that bankers/gamblers can win, win although they actually lost

      > bloated public sector is not efficiency – not for much longer.

      > There are answers – gamble = gamble, which part of that equation, don‘t you understand?.

      > Laziness like the Greeks – we don’t have sunshine to laze about in

    • s1lverbullet

      They are all equally to blame.Firstly, The politicians changed the laws so commercial banks could do investment banking, then they arranged the tax laws to suit their developer friends. The banks recklessly lent huge sums to these bums to build thousands of houses. In order for the banks to get their money back they had to release vast amounts of cheap credit to the citizens to purchase these over-priced crocks of shite. The joe soaps paid the developer scum so they could pay the banking scum, and all the while the political scum were looking at the tax intake and saying WOW what a great job we are doing. On the other side the mainstream media hyped it up, the crooked auditing firms cooked the results and the dogdy legal scum got in on the act too. The ordinary citizen is on the hook for the criminality of the professional classes, in the same way that we saw the same professional class do nothing about the industrial child abuse. These professional scum have no morals, no ethics and no common decency. They couldnt care less if the working class lives or dies , so why should we be surprised that they are willing to saddle us with insurmountable debts. Shame on the lot of them

  12. G

    Maybe someone could put the Irish version together?

    How to create an angry American?

  13. cautious-optimist

    So waht will an Irish sovereign default look like in practice? No money to pay public servants, state pensioners and social welfare recipients? A new currency (punt2, I’m tempted to call it fiat punto) circulating in tandem with the euro and used to pay the above groups?
    I know that in Argentina back in their default in the 1990′s certain regions printed their own currency and last year Kilkenny came out with a local legal tender called the Cat which gave you an additional 5% buying power if purchased for euros and used locally.
    If we default and return to the punto does that mean that all euro deposits in irish banks overnight become denominated in puntos? Just wondering how all this will pan out in practice and hoping that somebody in the Central bank and DoF has game played these scenarios and has a contingency plan to roll out in the next week or so.

    • fitting name, because it is fiat money. Your saving in fiat money are going to lose a large percentage of their value when we return to the punt.

      Silver is key to protecting your wealth and profiting from all this mess for the time being.

  14. G

    Their man says -

    He (Gordon Brown) threatened to block multimillion-pound bonus payouts if the firm (Goldman Sachs) is found guilty of wrongdoing.

    Our man says -

    ‘Social Protection’ Minister Eamon O’Cuiv has asked the chief of executive of Bank of Ireland to hand back a €1.5 million pension top-up. Mr O Cuiv said the Government did not have the legal power to force the chief Executvie, Richie Boucher, to give back the ‘award’.


    Tell me WHY when we pumped taxpayers money in it wasn’t done with strings attached, if I open a Bord Gas account I have to agree terms and conditions and put down a €200 deposit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    No culture change – who the f**k is running the country, we are being held to ransom by the greediest bunch of motherf**kers walking the planet!

    The Captain Boycott campaign should be revived!!! The spirit of Michael Davitt and James Connolly called upon – we are our inspirational people?

    What kind of a generation are we?

    • Deco

      The government is a major shareholder. It has the legal power to request that Boucher stands down.

      I still can’t fathom why Boucher was given the top job in the BoI, when his previous job was head of retail banking in Ireland – which is the division that made the biggest mistakes.

      Effectively Boucher was promoted because he presided over the most amount of incompetence. He has been promoted beyond his level of incompetence many years ago.

      I don’t suppose the Minister knows any of this. I suppose that this is irrelevant compared to the lamp that has to get fixed in Cararoe or the medical card for the man who lives fifteen doors down from the Post Office in Salthill.

    • paulmcd

      Extract from LETTER sent by me on Tuesday 24 November 2009, to all members of the Oireachtas highlighting continuing scandal of bankers’ pay.

      (The largest systemically-important US banks have already repaid TARP, and some of the figures would need to be adjusted. )

      Nation seeking FAIR PLAY

      On this day of action, I am still waiting and hoping that the leader of some organisation, be it a union or employer’s body will call for PAY CAPS which must be implemented as a part-solution to the current EMERGENCY. It is unacceptable that people earning 6-figure salaries should be the sole arbiters on what lesser mortals should earn.

      Banking executives, in particular, seem to believe they inhabit some parallel universe where they can truly be the MASTERS and politicians are their gofers.

      This year Richie Boucher, CEO of Bank of Ireland, will receive a total salary package of €620,000 (€500,000 + €120,000 cash payment in lieu of pension contribution). The Minister had advocated a pay cap of €500,000, and CIROC had advised against payment of sums in lieu of pension contributions. The “pension bonus” is all the more unwarrantable because Bank of Ireland needs to tackle a €1.5 billion pension deficit in relation to its ordinary employees. The Bank has a pension black hole equivalent to €100,000 for each of its 14,800 employees.

      Mr Boucher’s €620,000 = 921,000 US dollars. The CEO of Bank of America, which is 100 times larger than Bank of Ireland, is subject to a pay cap of $500,000 (€336,000).

      Citigroup, once the largest financial institution in the United States, has a CEO, Vikram Pandit, who is working for a salary of $1 (one dollar) and no bonus until such time as the Bank is again profitable. This is despite the fact that Mr Pandit is an innocent party who was parachuted in to rescue the organisation. IS THERE NOT A LESSON HERE FOR IRISH PATRIOTISM?

      FORGET PATRIOTISM: I predict that Boucher will be allowed to keep the extra €120,000; and Colm Doherty, the new AIB Managing Director, will recognise government weakness and ensure that, in the fullness of time, he will receive the €630,000 which the Minister rejected last week. There is something rotten in the State.

      • G

        government collusion rather than weakness.

        did you get a response?

      • PMC

        “Citigroup, once the largest financial institution in the United States, has a CEO, Vikram Pandit, who is working for a salary of $1 (one dollar) and no bonus until such time as the Bank is again profitable. This is despite the fact that Mr Pandit is an innocent party who was parachuted in to rescue the organisation. IS THERE NOT A LESSON HERE FOR IRISH PATRIOTISM?”

        I think Mr Pandit would in fact fit the bill perfectly for a senior position in our rancid banking system.
        This was a fella who 18 months earlier sold his own hedge fund to Citi (his current employer) for $800 million. Due to his departure from the Old Lane Fund, a provision was triggered which allowed himself and other prominent outside investors to withdarw their money, hence the withdrawal of some $3 billion. The fund then went to shit, and the taxpayers were left to foot the bill.

        • paulmcd

          PMC, I was not aware of this. However, isn’t it still astonishing that, in our small nation, Boucher is to be entitled to a pension which is greater than the salary of the President of the USA or the salary of the CEO of Bank of America while under TARP.

          • PMC

            Absolutely Paul, I with you agree entirely. It’s sickening though that Vikram Pandit received such positive publicity worldwide for this stunt.

    • s1lverbullet

      Do not fall for Gordon Brown’s spin. He was the main man in the UK cherrleading the light regulation for the last 15 years. 2 days arter parliament broke up he was making promises about what he’ll do if he gets back in and how he’ll stop banker’s bonuses. WHY didn’t he do something a week earlier when he had the power to. SPIN SPIN SPIN.
      Also, if you get any kinda price in the bookies on Cameron, put your house on him. There is a worse crisis coming in the next 6 months when countries start defaulting and Brown wants out. just like Bertie and Blair got out, Brown will do the same- mark my words

      • tony_murphy

        Phony tony was the real crook

        I’m not sure Brown was fully aware of mistakes he was making.

        He has stopped UK going into deflation spiral to his credit. The conservatives may cause a deflation spiral

        I won’t be voting for labour or conservatives though

        Looks like a hung parliament with Nick Clegg the power broker

        Even though Clegg was educated at the college of europe – finishing school for euro bureaucrats, I have being impressed by his words. He is from as posh a background as Cameroon and his father is a richer banker of some sort, but he isn’t surrounded by etonians as far as I’m aware.

        Vince Cable would be an impressive Chancellor

    • @G 14

      Was support for NAMA and Anglo bailout was a condition of Richie Boucher’s employment? Has he already sold his soul? We may only get shop window changes from him to appease and fool the public. Lets see people marched to the courts!

  15. Malcolm McClure

    Quinn = Quarries —– Understood
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement —— Understood
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement + Insurance —– ?
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement + Insurance + International —– ??
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement + Insurance + International + Anglo-Irish —– ???
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement + Insurance + International + Anglo Irish + Irish taxpayers ——-????
    Quinn = Quarries + Cement + Insurance + International + Anglo Irish + Irish taxpayers + contribution to Greek debts —— ??????
    Where ill this house of cards all end????????????????

  16. G

    Being charged for water when 50% is leaking because of appalling infrastructure (i.e. broken/leaking pipes!) – meter installation is like road tax, you’re not paying for either roads or water, it’s just straight bloody tax as one of the worst times in our country’s history – where the f**k will hard pressed people to find the money!

    Bloody Greens are in la-la land – monied idiots! They should go to the Dublin mountains (like they were encouraging people) and stay there!

    • Deco


      This is pure BS. Gormless has not got a clue.

      We do not have a water problem in Ireland. Unless you are talking about the fact that we do not know how to drain it properly.

      We have a money problem. As Joan Burton said “we are in this recession, because we have no money”. Gormless has made a contribution to the money problem by putting rejected GP local authority candidates employees of state quangos.

      I wonder were those jobs advertised ?
      And what about the selection criteria for the candidates ?
      And the interview process ?
      And what if there were better qualified candidates who did not get the jobs, that GP activists got ?

      Gormless is a scoundrel, the worst scoundrel of all – a silver tongued hypocrite.

    • tony_murphy

      When I heard Ciaran Cuffe speak about demolishing estates and badly planned ugly buildings that fall into NAMA, it made more sense at to why the backed NAMA fully

      It’s a licence to put Ciaran Cuffe and the likes of An Taisce etc into a big bulldozer and do what they’ve always wanted to do.

  17. G

    Is the administration of this water nonsense going to be in the hands of a private company? Who is installing the water meters? How will it be rolled out? Who foots the bill? Who benefits?

    I hope this is the issue that brings down this appalling government.

    The Cochabamba Water Wars: Marcela Olivera Reflects on the Tenth Anniversary of the Popular Uprising Against Bechtel and the Privatization of the City’s Water Supply

    • Deco

      Somebody needs to point a water pistol at Gormless. Maybe Willie O’Dea might be the man for the job ?

    • Clown:
      “The Dub buggers are complainin of the bloody water shortages again!”

      “The problem is they are drinking too much water. Introduce water charges, that’ll stop em.

      Charge them by the litre, charge them for meters.

      Close the swimming pools, poor gobshites are swimming around in our water and pouring it down the gobs of their big families.”

      Lenin, aka chemical ali:
      “We can make jobs outa this, sell them factory loads of bottled water, the Phosphate Brand.

      We can’t afford to pipe it to them from the Shannon, or build another Blessington Lakes, for f.cks sake!

      Who do dese dub mudaf..ck.rs tink they are”

  18. Deco

    Lots of salient points in the article.
    I will take this up in the next few days.

    We are facing a very harsh awakening. And there are legions of people who want to shut that out and stay on the sofa watching virtual reality. Concerning responsibility, there is now an industry in making other people responsible for the individual issues that every individual is now facing. And this industry was best exemplified by the weekend’s ILP meeting in Galway, with one speaker after another promising rescue at the expense of ‘the people who profitted from the Celtic Tiger’. Forgive my cynicism, but I was reticient at doing anything that helped others profit from the boom, and I am equally reticent at helping any scoundrels profit from the crash either.

    David is telling it as it is. This is the best service that anybody can do. The Drinks cabinet are not in control of the problem. The problem is control of the problem – it has it’s own dynamic. You are either at safe remove from the problem, or you are in the ‘collateral’ damage zone. Ireland is in the PIGS, and is a dependent exporter to the UK currency area. Ireland is in two collateral damage zones. And there are still legions of idiots who are more interested in “beer and circuses”.

    We are not adapting intellectually to the problems that we face. We have started a routine of patting ourselves on the back (pride) for the little bit that we have done. What we have done is irrelevant to the scale of the problem.

    We have not remedied anything at an intellectual level in our society. Therefore we have failed according to Einstein’s dictum “we cannot solve the problem, if we continue to operate at the same level of thinking that created the problem in the first place”.

    A harsh chapter awaits many people in Ireland who think that “the Irish way of life is not up for negotiation”. The Irish way of life is now effectively defunct, and is at the end of the road. We have reached a Kunsterlian predicament. We are living beyond our means. We are wasteful and misallocating resources.

    Today, Minister Gormley announced that the state would spend 2 Billion Euro on water metering, so as to ensure that we were metering usage of this precious resource. This is a load of horseshit. Ireland can waste water. It cost us nothing. Ireland cannot waste money. His government is borrowing 20 Billion Euro per year, in order to run quangos, semi-states, pointless overmanned departments and a whole myriad of wasteful schemes. And Gormless is not doing anything.

    What I am saying is that Gormless is intellectually a prime example of the prime example of why this problem is going to get worse. Gormless is trying to save water. But money is being wasted. The water will keep coming. The money will not. This is what happens when you get ideological political movements, you get illogical policies.

    • Tull McAdoo

      Nail ar on ceann, Deco. When are these people going to realise that the Taxpayer’s can no longer and are indeed tired of funding this mis-placed gombeen gulch. I would’nt trust that Gormely with a bloody tenner.

  19. Deco

    What was it that Hemmingway said “Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels” ??

    FF, SF, ILP, the George Lee bashers in FG, the GP, media commentators, celebrities like Bullshit Bill, Mr. Point Depot, etc….

    Hemmingway was correct. Scoundrels the lot of them.

    • G

      Samuel Johnson is noted for having coined that particular phrase………Hemingway was onto something but veered away…..more of a John Steinbeck fan, hence I can’t allow him take the credit :-)

  20. eamondo

    “Where with all these debts are we going to get the cash to pay back the borrowing”, you ask, David. Right under your nose thats where, or at least a decent percentage of it.

    One huge source of untapped income currently available to the Irish economy is unpaid tax, or to put it bluntly the “black economy”. Something Ireland has in common with Greece and Spain.

    How huge is it, as a London born and based visitor to Ireland for many years, I could take a straw poll from 7 of my cousins who I am still in touch with.

    Teachers, social workers, care assistants, utility workers, one self employed businessman, two semi skilled tradesmen.

    Everyone of them, yes every one of them, has a second business / sideline activity from livestock to beautician work, private education (grinds I believe it is known as) etc etc, which they proudly boast increases their incomes between 20 and 80 per cent.

    No, I am not related to an extended family of dangerous criminals but more likely a cross section of formerly working, now middle class Ireland, and aware of another of Ireland’s current problems; income tax evasion and lack of strategy to deal with this, along with all the other unspoken (until recently) moral problems, catholic church cover ups, abortion exportation……… etc.

    Wake up Ireland!! The future is in your own hands, or should I say in undisclosed bank accounts.

  21. This is staggering stuff.


    The proof of every students conspiracy theory. Didn’t Goldman Sachs do something or other for the Irish Government?
    Methinks young Elderfield is going to be a busy man.

    • Philip

      I would say it was a natural consequence of pushing people’s work off shore and forcing them to believe that the new income was from property. All these guys did was respond to demand and drag in the experts to keep it going.

      It was unsustainable – that’s all.

  22. paulmcd

    Several of you have compared our economy to a sinking ship – a useful comparison.

    Yes, the good ship Éire has hit an iceberg. Captain Cowen and officers are first into the lifeboats, while the crew dash around like headless chickens helping mainly MALE FIRST-CLASS PASSENGERS make it safely into the lifeboats, leaving the “socially disadvantaged”, the handicapped, and that unruly rabble of women and children to fare for their good selves.


  23. Philip

    We need to understand that industry in Ireland never got off the ground. We had a brief boom from the Mid 90s to 2000 and then it fizzled. It fizzled before people really understood the game was up – that took another 7 years or so.

    In the intervening 2000 to 2007 the only real source of income was property financed from cheap money. To date, if you invested then and generated a tidy rental without getting too greedy, you are quids in. It is terrible to say it, but that is the consequence of taking the eye off the bit that makes wealth. We were all conned by nonsnse about the knowledge economy etc. Even today, this nonsense persists.

    Once Quinn got into ser vices & financial serv ices, he was playing a gamblers game. He went from making real wealth to merely churning it. He created froth v ia rev enue wihout bothering to count his loans. Ireland & the banks are the same….bt we are all lost and ov er impressed by the froth.

    Ireland has effectively been unemployed for about 9 years now. As a manufacturing/ assembly area, it has lost and is loosing the skills of organisation it built since 1980s. The last 10 years of people have only exposure to retail, banks and small businesses of little merit – hardly the basis of learning how to tackle large operational problems….oh yes, services was supposed to do that? That dog simply does not hunt.

    To be fair to the CIF and FF, they now have the largest cadre of well practiced chartered professional engineers and other professional you will find in this country. So while all went to hell in electronics, IT etc, at least we were using our engineers for something.

    I am not denying the seriousness of the Sovereign bust about to drop on us. But the default is and was already underway in terms of our skills reserve. The blather was we are rushing to the knowledge economy and no one ever questioned this. We went unsustainable when people stopped asking questions ab out the service/knowledge economy.

    This is not an Irish problem. This same nonsense is being played out in all western economies and the penny has yet to drop.

  24. For those who may not have seen this before, I thought I’d post it again. It’s Article 45 of the Irish Constitution and I’m buggered if I can figure out how it fits with whats going on with the banks.


    Article 45

    The principles of social policy set forth in this Article are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas. The application of those principles in the making of laws shall be the care of the Oireachtas exclusively, and shall not be cognisable by any Court under any of the provisions of this Constitution.

    1. The State shall strive to promote the welfare of the whole people by securing and protecting as effectively as it may a social order in which justice and charity shall inform all the institutions of the national life.

    2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:

    i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.

    ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.

    iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.

    iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.

    v. That there may be established on the land in economic security as many families as in the circumstances shall be practicable.

    3. 1° The State shall favour and, where necessary, supplement private initiative in industry and commerce.

    2° The State shall endeavour to secure that private enterprise shall be so conducted as to ensure reasonable efficiency in the production and distribution of goods and as to protect the public against unjust exploitation.

    4. 1° The State pledges itself to safeguard with especial care the economic interests of the weaker sections of the community, and, where necessary, to contribute to the support of the infirm, the widow, the orphan, and the aged.

    2° The State shall endeavour to ensure that the strength and health of workers, men and women, and the tender age of children shall not be abused and that citizens shall not be forced by economic necessity to enter avocations unsuited to their sex, age or strength.

    • G

      excellent, really useful, government is a violation of the constitution…….

      Anyone see the p.3 story in the Irish Examiner today in relation to M. Hanafin – I thought it most peculiar…

        • G

          Yes, very curious, especially for the FG Examiner – totally out of place article…………

          • s1lverbullet

            obviously trying to muster up some sympathy for the bitch. Fuck her, her asshole of a brother, and anyone connected to her. I for one coudlnt give a shit if she died herself, let alone the love of her life

          • ps200306

            That’s a pretty inhuman comment @ 7:27 pm

      • liam

        Tragic stuff, FF’ers are human too I guess. And having said that, the timing is remarkable.

        At the risk of lighting up a controversy that our host has already become entangled with, I’ve always thought it curious that MoC, who has considerable kudos from her experience on Newsnight and as a BBC-trained producer, should simultaneously front RTE’s main current affairs programme, yet also be involved in this kind of light entertainment stuff. Does she (and RTE) not realise that this juxtaposition completely undermines her journalistic credibility? Can you imagine Jeremy Paxman, somebody she appears to have considerable admiration for, doing these kinds of personal pieces on the lives of politicians one night on one show, and then quite justifiably biting the legs off them the next night on a different show? Will Gerry Ryan be anchoring the nine o’clock news net year?

    • G

      @ Furrylugs – I consulted a legal Eagle on the above, his one line response -

      “Article 45 is not cognisable by the Irish courts and, for that reason, has no ‘bite’ concerning present events.”

      • Hi G.
        Thanks for the response.
        My take on that is, when a Minister is formulating policy in line with the social principles of A45, he may not be prevented from doing so by someone challenging him /her in a court of law.
        It does not mean that the Courts do not recognise A45, which would make a farce of the Constitution.
        But I’m not a legal bod, just a regulatory peasant.

  25. G

    It’s about to get more interesting…………..traders already working on it for maximum financial advantage.

    It would also seem the US, British and German governments are intent on breaking up Goldman Sachs

    Oil, Smoke & Mirrors….

  26. tony_murphy

    off topic, but icelandic volcano looks like it’s going to throw an big spanner in the works.


    The eruption of the Eyjafjallajoekull volcano in Iceland, and the travel chaos it has called, is only a “small rehearsal”, according to Iceland’s President Olafur Grimsson.
    The larger Katla volcano, right next to it, usually erupts every century, and the last eruption was in 1918, he said.

    He also said that European governments should prepare

    it’s a right mess and could get a lot worse

    • Hi Tony,

      yes, in deed, and our politicians would be well advised to not waste OUR time in debating Fingelton’s 1 million euro repayment promise, and just start by doing something useful such as freezing all assets of the people involved in this scam by emergency legislation.

      • paulmcd

        . . . and withdrawing their passports.

      • I thought we had the CAB (Criminal Assets Bureau) already empowered for this, non payment of debts, embezzlement and fraud through providing loans for cronies without properly accounted for personal asset guarantees, improperly setup paperwork, lack of due diligence amounting to fraud…etc

  27. Garry

    A Paul Forrest has posted probably the most succinct analysis of the current situation to date in response to Fintan O’Toole.


    Is it manageable? Hasn’t anyone read this?

    Money Advice & Budgeting Service
    Dublin South East MABS
    26 — 28, Lombard Street
    Dublin 2

    Dear MABS,
    My name is Cathlín Ní Houliháin and I earn €35,000 a year.
    My annual spend is €60,000 and I have borrowings of €80,000 on which I can barely pay the interest.
    I’m spending a further €40,000 to purchase some property-based assets, once worth €80,000, which I hope to be able to sell on at a profit when things improve.
    I’m also investing €73,000 in several finance companies, because I decided to act as their guarantor for €485,000 of their debts and deposits.
    Wilkins Micawber advises that such leads to misery. Brian Lenihan advises that it leads to prosperity. Morgan Kelly advises that if I want to get to any sort of ‘Prosperity’, I shouldn’t have started from here.
    What would you advise?

    Yours sincerely,

    For anyone who at this stage may still be confused by the politicians’ ability to ‘fudge’ anything, just add six noughts to each of the above numbers to gauge Ireland’s actual problem.

    And as for, ‘Is it manageable?’ In the spirit of the famous riposte to the one who once asked if he’d get a receipt, ‘Is it ****’!

  28. Dilly

    A financial advisor tried to talk me into buying property this week. I was told “this is the year to buy”. I felt like Marty McFly. What year is this ???. He was all excited, flapping his arms around. I backed away slowly and made no sudden movements.

  29. G


    There is a movement to call a General Election on April 24th, people gathering in all major Irish cities, see also Facebook………

    Call for a General Election in Ireland – Saturday 24/04/2010 @ 12 Noon

    • And probably badly needed G, but have the other parties set out their own stalls about what to do next. We could jump from the frying pan into the fire unless we are very clear about what and who will replace this shower.

  30. coldblow

    How do you go about putting a country into administration, seeing as we have a democratically elected government?

    My reading of the piece is that we are steering a direct course towards default which nobody wants to mention or even think about. That if we do nothing to avert this (Nama is just pulling out the throttle) then we will be left to cut the worst possible deal. That govt. should be seeking to avert the worst possible outcome but that nobody in DoF wants to give any thought to the possible scenarios because even to admit to theoretical possibility of their existence would be heresy. So no contingencies will be prepared for what will take place.

    Well, it’s a good thing then that DoF have been carefully considering and planning for all eventualities.

    Will our lot act like the Russian conspirators who arrested Gorbachov and then went on the p*ss before just giving up?

  31. coldblow

    ‘And the medal goes to Paddy Last!’
    I could hear the village roar.
    ‘Now I’m first at last’ I cried
    ‘I was always behind before!’

    Gabriel Fitzmaurice

  32. paddyjones

    How will we repay our 140 billion ( end 2010 ) ? Well there is always the option of put this debt directly on the shoulders of the population. How about each citizen over the age of 18 being issued with a loan of 50,000 to be repaid in installments over 20 years.
    That is the only way of repaying the national debt because the government has no will to start repaying it. Indeed the national debt will soar to 190 billion in 2014 does anybody know the difficulty in just balancing the budget in one sigle year, this will not be achieved until about 2016 at the earliest. When will the bond market just stop investing in countries like Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal? This day is not far off.

  33. wills


    In the Article above you decry ‘its all MAD MAD MAD’.

    I think you are referring to the bonds and paper money debt system going beserk that you are decrying MAD.

    The paper money FIAT system is been utterly pillaged and plundered and robbed in our faces.

    Look at the stories on the news tonight.

    GOLDMAN SUCKS an egg first three months bonuses manna from heaven.

    BofII Boucher (who is NOT from Ireland from South Africa) and he is awarded a 2 million pay rise for what..?

    NAMA bonds shifted another billion again money from ECB printing presses going like the clappers.

    We are experiencing an unprecedented looting of the banking system fronting as a credit provider but now its proven to be so that they are plundering the economy through loopholes and coordinated crisis and diversion.

    The paper money FIAT system is been milked on an unprecedented level.

    • s1lverbullet

      anyone else get the feeling that Lenihan might not renew the guarantee next september. I still think he is a dick but for some reason I think he intends to let Anglo swing after it runs out

      • wills


        BL is trying to hold things together from flying a part which might be a good thing.

        In the end BL is not the problem, its the financial engineers behind the engineered POnzi scamarama bank job.

        • s1lverbullet

          @ Will – I’ve said it many times here, Rothschilds, Merrill Lynch, and Aurthur Cox came up with the Nama idea as an experiment. They WANT us to go bust!! That said I just have a feeling the guarantee wont be renewed. Remember where you heard it first

          • ps200306

            “Remember where you heard it first”

            Karl Whelan already predicted it.

          • s1lverbullet

            @ ps200306 – please don’t tell me my comments are inhumane. If you seriously think that Hanafin gives a shit about us then you are sadly mistaken. Why should I care one bit about her. I say it again, I could’nt care less if she died herself, let alone the love of her life!!!

  34. wills

    Good link here on Roubini taking the baton from D’s article and running it over the finishing line.


  35. It is really fascinating to observe how the exact same rhetoric, down to the very choice of words, is used by Cowen / Lenihan concerning Anglo/ Irish Nationwide compared with their corresponding colleagues in Germany and Hypo Real Estate.

    The mantra is always the same, ‘We did not make any errors’, ‘We did not see this coming’, ‘There is no other way’, and so on.

    A commission was put in place to investigate, and ran into the same rubber wall of silence, lies and secrets built by Josef Ackermann (Deutsche Bank) who happens to be chairman of the IIF since 2003.


    The answers of german politicians are always the same, and one could just exchange the faces and keep the quotes to make a suitable Irish version, which is in deed the exact picture on close inspection.

    What we witness is on this Island is not a single Irish coverup on our small turf, instead it is a internationally driven cover up in an effort to protect the key players, to ensure the next chapter is not endangered by possible civil unrest or even worse, total collapse of security and social structures.

    They are scared shitless, and in that respect will do everything required to not let the truth come forward, and everything required is a very wide term.

    This was a well orchestrated and internationally cooperated Heist, driven by an insider circle who also follow certain political ideologies blindfold.

    Their first and foremost mantra was always ‘LEHMAN BROTHERS’ to blind the public and attempt to create a long lasting meme. – A meme is basically an idea that transmits through cultures like a virus in biological systems. – It worked in deed for a long time, and only slowly the public begins to understand that all these events came down to a handful of individuals in the respective countries, driven by the same motivations and using the very same tools.

    Max Keiser eloquently calls them Financial Terrorist, and I would sign that in deed!

    While I am not a supporter for the death penalty, I would think a life sentence of cleaning toilets in Mount Joy would be a mild sentence in deed to be ruled on them.

    I suggest to print a couple of thousand WANTED! DEAD OR ALIVE! posters, of Politicians, Bankers, Developers and so on, known to have been involved in this Heist, and decorate the Irish cities with them. I imagine it to be a strange Feeling for Fitzpatrick and the likes to see his face on every street corner.

    Anglo is not investigated at all in the required manner, and was given all the time in the world to destroy evidence, key players still are protected by the existing laws which did not change an inch , and as a result it will come eventually to some show trials with a few black sheep to be slaughtered before the 2012 elections.

    This was a well executed internationally cooperated heist, and politicians, whether in Germany or Ireland, were fully aware about it and used the existing bureaucratic structures to avoid any accountability, however, they were in it up to their neck.

    Financial Terrorists, yeah, Max is right on that!

    • P.S.

      No surprise, the IIF’s Chief Executive, Investment Banking, is James E. Staley, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.

      Staley is the likely successor to Jamie Dimon. Total compensation for 2009, USD 8,96 mio

      • P.P.S.

        The 2,000 pages report in Iceland was a shocking revalation to Birgitta Jondottsdir, to learn how key Politicians were involved from middle ranks to senior ranks to highest positions in government.

        Anyone suggesting this would have been different in Germany, Ireland, France, Greece, UK and so on? Of course not, it was the same, still is the same.

  36. Tim

    Thank you, one and all. What a great read! How informative!

  37. Just take a look at this for arrogance, the day after 1.5 mill went to Boucher the BOI Boy and Cowen denied he knew anything was wrong at INBS(When half the world was screaming Foul);


      • And from Brendan Keenan at the Indo;

        “TAXPAYERS will have to pay more than €3m a year extra interest on money borrowed yesterday, compared with last month, as the Greek debt crisis sends interest rates higher……….Greece yesterday had to offer the same interest rate for three-month loans as the NTMA did for six-year bonds.

        Athens’ Public Debt Management Agency paid 3.65pc on 13-week notes — more than double the 1.67pc it paid on similar loans in January.

        The average yield on €750m of NTMA six-year bonds was 3.663pc, up from 3.479pc last month. A similar amount of 10-year debt was auctioned at a yield of 4.688pc, compared with 4.426pc in March.

        Longer-term interest rates on 10-year Greek bonds jumped more than a third of a percentage point to a record 7.84pc, as data showed unemployment rose to 11.3pc in January, the highest level seen in six years.

        Negotiations with the IMF, the EU Commission and the European Central Bank on a loan from the proposed rescue fund are due to start today.

        Greek finance minister George Papaconstantinou said that if his country did activate the rescue package of up to €30bn from its eurozone partners, the loans would start arriving within one to three weeks.

        “We will not be left high and dry,” he added.”"

        Course you won’t Son. You’ve got the Paddies to borrow the money for you.

        Bloody Hell. This just gets beyond words.

        • Furrylugs,

          I keep saying it, the whole system is broke, it is not only on the surface. In particular the correlation between banks and rating agencies. Banks go shopping, and in some cases buy their ratings, this is a fact!

          Last not least, let’s not forget, it was the very same ratings agencies who sticked AAA ratings on a dead horse.

          Why are private and profit oriented companies allowed to act as the general oversight to financial markets and capitalism in the first place?

          Yeah, that’s right, it is the very source needed to be able to rig markets, and as long as this system is not changed, the problem stays.

          • I don’t have time for this, but may be David wishes to write about the Moody’s, S&P, Fitch?

            The analysis of these agencies determine the costs for borrowers, both, companies as well as countries.

            The conflict of interest comes in by the truck load to start with.

            Moody’s for example failed, I say refused for good reasons, to lower Enron for an entire months down to junk bond status.

            The acted wrong as well during the Asian crisis.

            if you talk to serious investors, to them it is nothing but a stamp, then again, as we know, it determines countries borrowing costs, hence is instrumental in the way this Heist is managed, and they have their own agenda which is anything but neutral to political interests.

            The lessons of Enron have not lead to a systematic change of the inherent design flaws, they are just too handy for the payers to rig markets.

      • G

        Bord Failte’s latest marketing slogan:

        You want to get screwed, visit Ireland!

        Go to our website (pictures of horses running on beach and all)

  38. http://www.businessworld.ie/bworld/livenews.htm?a=2587740

    Wills, Here you go now. This is how you stop it.
    Buy a hacksaw.

  39. Constantins on the warpath again.


    How can we get this message across to the pulverised punter who doesn’t blog??

  40. Eamon Leahy SC – this man was one of the first people I suspected to have acted unprofessionally in his capacity as chairman in a state quasi body and I had grave reservations about his motives shortly before he died.His correspondence and meetings with me were deceptive and I sensed poison in the air about him.His actions frightened me then.

    • Interesting comment on the then leading FF strategist John.

      Well, Bertie is still alive and could be summoned to a public hearing of course, if the people of ireland would force such investigative procedures to be implemented.

  41. Hahahaha, and they try to make the public believe that investigations are on the way since 14 month because of “the complexity of these matters’ concerning Anglo.

    Even the bigger picture It is pretty straight forward!

    The only thing that is complex here is the cover up at work.


    • liam

      Jaysus. Somebody once said any sufficiently complex technology is indistinguishable from magic, this appears to be the financial equivalent

      • You know, it just highlights that politicians can simply not take cover behind a curtain of Binyamin Netanyahu style ” How should I know, i wasn’t even in the room?’

        This system is so blatantly straight forward it is simply impossible anyone in the business of being a finance minister would not have known about it. In particular in a Maples and Calder Ireland since 2006!

  42. I do have a red line through my contributions here that I would like to emphasize again. Someone was asking me a minute ago what I think the political ideologies behind the curtains are made of and how that comes into play.

    Well here are my 0,2 cent., I am warning since a long time that red flags are up in the US and all over Europe concerning a new emerging breed of a very slick fascism on the horizon.

    The events of this Heist are linked.

    The grounds are prepared, and they are nourishing grounds to channel the anger and frustration of the working class who is looking for answers.

    Without going into an in depth analysis, just a few examples.

    In Germany the raise of the FDP, which holds a lot of fascist tendencies under the cover of neo liberalism is such a red flag as well. Guido Westerwelle is a a populist who’s public statements are nothing short of distinct Goebbels Rhetoric. The entire regiment of new policies is a great concern and signifies clear tendencies.

    Italy and Berlusconi, well I think this does not need a lot of explanations, it is rather self evident.

    Ireland is probably the most longstanding ultra conservative country in Europe where even the opposition would be deemed to be conservative. A alcohol induced catholicism poisoned public is rather indifferent to the dealings of their government, in a state of paralysis.

    The US, you should not be fooled to think that the Teaparty is only a band of yesterdays whack jobs who need not be taken serious. This is much more! They are constantly fed by Sarah Palin and Fox News, which is their source of Information about the truth, their only source in deed.

    All in all this Heist has prepared the grounds for a new emerging mass with clear fascistoid tendencies, manipulated and steered.

    One could say, Obama was supported by the Banks to be able to prepare his down fall. Obama might just have been installed on purpose to fail, to to make the come back of hard core republicans ever so stronger after Bush.

  43. @FurryLugs 41

    “Negotiations with the IMF, the EU Commission and the European Central Bank on a loan from the proposed rescue fund are due to start today.

    Greek finance minister George Papaconstantinou said that if his country did activate the rescue package of up to €30bn from its eurozone partners, the loans would start arriving within one to three weeks.”

    Seems to me there’s a tipping point being approached this week. On the one hand, SEC (Securities Exchange Committee) investigation into Goldman Sachs http://bit.ly/ay3Wrx is showing up DIRT. There’s mounting opposition in American Senate to the proposals for new regulatory powers in the US. Obama is going to address this today. Its between a rock and a hard place though, the more they try to unwind the paper trail derivative time bombs, the more they scare the markets?

    What they maybe need is a system of licensing for new financial products that will stress test each one with similar rigour to FDA regulations for new drug patents!

    While Greece gets ready to grab European bailout money thereby more rock and hard place stuff showing Greek weakness, Prof Schachtscneider constitutional challenge to Greek bailout is going ahead, he wants to see the euro broke up and countries like ours ejected!


    According to Schachtscneider ‘no bailout clause’ policy needs to be reaffirmed and who could disagree with him?

    On a brighter note Dermot Mooney of Light Entertainment RTE was motivated yesterday to do a straw pole of listeners to see if they supported ‘Chemical Ali’s’ propaganda of the previous day that every day that passed showed greater growing support for NAMA. Result of straw pole phone in, 86% disagreed with Lenin!

    The Irish public are a lot wiser than some people give them credit for!

    Sean Fleming FF shows opposition to Anglo bailout

    Do you get the feeling the ‘centre cannot hold’

    “Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;”(Yeats)


    Time to leave the euro, devalue, dump Anglo, renegotiate with our FF bondolders about that noose they slipped around our neck, default if we can’t negotiate. Hit bottom, bounce back with a new, fresh start and a new currency.

    Most of all, dump the Clown Gang of financial decentralisers who’ve sucked the life out of this place.

    As a going away present electronic voting machines to the moráns for quick disposal in the Bog of Allen. This be can be a sign of the beginning of our new smart economy! Not Clown Smart, as Jay Z would say, ‘really, really smart’ lol

    Obama has a tough speech today to calm the fears of the markets and support the new regulator powers/policies/SEC investigations/probes about which I hope to learn more.

    Meanwhile, I’m guessing its time to Fasten your seat belts, folks:)

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