Artists and entrepreneurs are the key to our recovery

March 17, 2010


On St Patrick’s Day two years ago, while nudging my way up a crammed Fifth Avenue, the idea of the Farmleigh Global Irish Forum came to me. I’d thought about it before and I had seen how other countries cultivated relationships with their global tribes — particularly the Jewish tribe and Israel — but it was only after seeing the unique outpouring of Irish America on March 17 that I knew we should do this. We should tap into the power of the tribe and see where it takes us.

Like many initiatives, the real power of something like Farmleigh can never be dictated in advance. There is an element of chaos in putting people together who don’t know each other and are bonded by something as fluid as having an “interest” in Ireland and allowing the conversations and ideas to flow.

But Ireland has never been short of ideas, if anything we have loads of ideas and not enough people who can execute them. The hardest part about ideas is getting them to fulfil their potential. This is what any entrepreneur will tell you. It is also what any artist or writer will tell you. It’s easy to have an idea for a book, the hard part is having the discipline to write it.

Similarly, had the officials and Foreign Affairs Minister Micheal Martin not been open to the idea, Farmleigh would have remained an idea thrown out in a bar on St Patrick’s Day — how many of these do we have? So it’s all about execution and no matter how amenable the diaspora or tribe is, we still have to translate an emotion into a reality.

Out of Farmleigh have come a number of concrete initiatives and only time will tell how many others are bubbling away under the surface. Dermot Desmond’s University of the Arts, the Farmleigh Graduate Programme, the latest tourism campaign ‘Home’, the ‘Gateway Ireland’ portal as well as the many regional Farmleighs which are taking place today — all these are tangible. Sure, Farmleigh had its critics, and some of the points made are valid and apposite — but you have to try, you have start somewhere and the connections made are likely to throw up more initiatives.

This is the beauty of setting up networks and bringing people together, you simply have to stand back and let human curiosity, ingenuity and love of risk run its course.

These are the sort of characteristics which join two of the most interesting types of people in our world — the artists and the entrepreneurs. One of the most gratifying and unexpected developments to come out of Farmleigh has been the realisation that artists and entrepreneurs are on the same side.

For many years this natural alliance has been obscured, often by arts administrators who, as bureaucrats, are more risk averse than either artists or entrepreneurs. Some academics play this role too, a sort of false bohemia cosseted by the protection of a State salary.

These folk like to hang with artists but would never risk their own creature comforts and live like artists. It is natural — no in fact it is essential — therefore, to create an enemy that is inimical to the artistic temperament so that the artists never see who their real kindred spirits are and the entrepreneur never sees that the artist gets up every day.

The fat-cat businessman image is a type of Dickensian caricature, counting his swag and scoffing at artistic effort. But this is far from the truth.

Take James Joyce for example. Joyce was an entrepreneur before he was an artist.

In September 1909, on a visit to Trieste, Eva Joyce, James’s younger sister, suggested to Jim that there was money in cinemas. For a city of 400,000, Trieste had loads of cinemas. In contrast, there wasn’t even one in Ireland.

Joyce was sold and he put together four venture capitalists to back him. Joyce negotiated 10pc for himself. Today, this capital would have been known in the jargon as “sweat equity”.

Joyce set off in October 1909. By December the Volta cinema was open on Mary Street in Dublin, with Joyce as proprietor. The ‘Evening Telegraph’ covered the Volta’s opening night on December 20: “James Joyce, who is in charge, has worked apparently indefatigably and deserves to be congratulated on the success of the inaugural exhibition.”

Two other ventures captivated Joyce. The first was a plan to import skyrockets into Trieste, and the second was to import Irish tweeds into Italy. Both projects were dropped and the Volta folded, but all three episodes reveal a portrait of the artist as a young entrepreneur.

Joyce, arguably our finest and definitely our most celebrated writer, saw no contradiction between artist and the entrepreneur. Rather they are complementary and at their root the artist and the entrepreneur are similar. A fine business brain is as interested, irreverent, creative and alert as a fine artistic mind. The artist sees himself as outside the mainstream. So too does the entrepreneur. Both celebrate the individual over the collective. Both regard security with a certain distance.

There is a striking similarity about their worldview. Both regard most of society’s obsession with certainty and security as bizarre. Neither can bear the idea of working for someone else for a wage.

The very thought of taking orders from a bureaucrat strikes fear in both. Working is about creating, beating the competition and expressing themselves, not about pointless committees, political games and promotion.

In the end, artists and entrepreneurs are the only people in society who do not retire. They rarely become jaded or washed up. Of course, many artists and entrepreneurs become part of the establishment, feted by politicians, the media and corporates alike, but most remain beyond the pale.

What binds these two apparently contradictory groups? Risk. Risk and a love of risk, originality and freedom, distinguish the entrepreneur and the artist from others.

Both groups live on their wits, not from the type of corporate arse-kissing that dominates many “successful” career structures in corporate and public sector Ireland. They make things happen by displaying enormous self-belief, hard work and attitude.

An interesting way of looking at the similarities is to remember your schooldays and examine the subsequent careers of friends. In many cases those who ploughed their own furrow either artistically or in business were remarkably similar.

It wasn’t really that surprising, therefore, that when I got up to chair the final session at Farmleigh, there was a little knot of some of Ireland’s and the diaspora’s finest entrepreneurs and artists huddled together excitedly.

These people understood each other. They are spiritual bedfellows and unlike others they — artists, writers and entrepreneurs — realise that the idea isn’t the end, it’s the beginning. The hard part is the hours spent on your own — writing, tearing up, getting up when you’ve been knocked down and taking the flack from the critics, who tell you that idea will never fly. This St Patrick Day, let’s celebrate these doers.




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225 Comments. Most recent comments first.
  1. Deco says:

    Seanie Fitz is out of custody.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fitzpatrick-released-by-gardai-2105157.html

    I wonder who will be next…..not wishing to point any fingers at any other members of the banking sector….

  2. Dilly says:

    These guys are too close to Fianna Fail. Unless, they find their patsy, nothing will happen.

  3. Ruairí says:

    And WHISTLEBLOWERS are also the key to our recovery………

    After they save us from the abyss!

    http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/03/19/breaking-news-here-is-the-letter-at-the-center-of-the-lehman-report/

  4. Ruairí says:

    PD-infected Fianna Fáil are NOT key to our recovery……..unless it involves them getting on a plane to Newfoundland with a load of bishops and a few cardinals and someone forgetting to check the fuel tanks………

    Damage Tara heritage forever and even then, manage to make a bags of the new M3 road also………..

    http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2010/03/18/3995651-dail-committee-to-quiz-nra-on-whether-pyrite-was-used-to-build-m3/

    Republic 2.0 No gombeens allowed.

  5. John ALLEN says:

    AMAN : least we become lost in our own reflections lets re-examine the great change from the other end .
    As we speak currently the Germans are not happy and realise they cannot expel any rogue states inside the euro however they can eject themselves and hold their own Krone as it once was before the D-Mark.Were they to leave the Euro with an ally or two the remaining states would see their Euro collapse .Were that to happen then this would sove our problems and we would not be seen as a pariah state anymore and our bank loans would devalue too in conjunction with the cost of living and the cost of production and thus our exports would rise once more and full employment .
    Greece is threatening to call in the IMF and Germany cannot wait for their bluff to distroy everything around them.A woman sees a heart on its feet while a man sees a heart on its head .How do we see Lenihans legacy :
    a) An Oportunity or b ) Slavery ?

  6. zohan says:

    What did you honestly expect ! Of course Seanie would not be charged ..he knows too much,but what really kills me is the public sector working to rule…..stop the shIT SACK them if they won’t work,there are thousands waiting to fill the positions.And how come we don’t complain about petrol at 1.30 a litre………………..it’s because we’re just idiots , WHY ,WHY,WHY, I ‘m beginning to hate this KIP !

  7. Tim says:

    Folks, good news! People know about how bad NAMA is; they are waking up. A selection of comments from twitter, tonight:

    Harry crosbie ever hear of the word humility? Touch of the knob jockey off him

    Good ol harry crosbie who passed all his natural entrepreneur debts onto the taxpayer, barf

    #latelate what fuckin recession. my daughter has a studio. I have an armchair.

    There is a quote – “Dying is a good career move”….mmmm #latelate

    thats nice thanks harry ‘dying’ gets the money flowing again,, how delightful #latelate

    Nama – Mary Harney – Michael Jackson! WTF!! #LateLate

    “NAMA is great, Harney is great”, how set is he on proving what an arse he is…#LateLate

    “Dying is a good career move, hwah hwah hwah hwah!” ……ffs… #latelate

    “Dying is a good career move” – Harry Crosbie, 19th March 2010. Might I suggest that long walk in Dun Laoghaire again? #latelate

    Smug Bastard ! #latelate first curse on twitter

    He s off again, NOOO you are open for business, we are paying your f’n debt..#latelate

    RT @kencurtin #latelate im now counting the purle shapes behind crosbie to relieve my boredom <– im trying to make them fall on him !

    I need to get a life or the frigging #latelate will kill me…

    the ads are now the best bit, that wildlife show looks cool

    "we have been foolish" Bite me Crosbie #latelate

    #latelate why does everybody knock harry? Both the point and the new theatre are excellent venues. I admire people who have vision!

    boring interview but I admire Crosbie achievements even tho he loves Harney. Reckon he took risks & didnt just lash up apartments. #latelate

    #latelate if only harry had a bit of confidence in himself, he could do great things

    That smug Crosbie has pushed me over the edge with #latelate although the music was good. Time for a channel surf!

    harry and vision is like stevie wonder and sun glasses #latelate

    "we have been foolish" Bite me Crosbie #latelate. Not me, in merde now without the decadence *wishes he was decadent*

    ok harry mitty s gone of to meet up with his famous mates i'm gonna breath relax and 1 ..#latelate

    First time that I have watched the #latelate with Twitter. How fitting that it is a slow episode. The tweets are hilarious.

    heey i got it,, harry mitty is irelands richard branson…. leprechaun version … #latelate

    i like harry's no bs style #latelate

    That's the reaction to Crosbie on the Late Late show, via the people of this country, who us twitter to express their views.

    What do you think?

    • drick says:

      christ! i love australia!! not that it doesnt have a bunch of insiders but at least they have a brain it seems. We still have jobs although things will take a huge hit later in the year it seems managable. well who knows??

    • Deco says:

      Crosbie is one smug smart alec. Up there with Bill Cullen in the smugness league.

      Harry Crosbie is the contemporary version of a Circus ring master. Not quite in the mould of the Ceann Chaorlaire as a circus master. But basically he presents ‘acts’ to the public. He is a promoter. What he promotes could hardly be called a necessity. More a series of distractions. Which is why I use the circus analogy. He promotes distractions. A classic exponent to the money for nothing business model. Create loads of hype, bombard the radio advertising with ads, and then charge the muppets plenty. And praise them for their being such willing muppets. Promotion is a strange business. And Crosbie has to compete with other promoters. But the media loves them because they bring advertising revenue to the media. I scratch your back, and you scratch mine.

      And the radios coincidentally play the relevant music in the build up to the tickets going on sale. This happens across the sector, and in most countries. It is the media trying to prop up their adverstisers, so as to keep the advertising revenue coming in. Just look at the help U2 get. All about Pride. You’d nearly swear they were the best taxpayers in Ireland.

      …..with a conveyor belt of bread and circuses and they will never notice the farce that is the HSE. Maybe all this economic realism is bad for the circuses ??

      But the leadership needs circuses. Just like in Ancient Rome.

  8. Pauldiv says:

    Just what is an entrepreneur and how do you differentiate between one and a gom?
    For me a real entrepreneur would be someone who is driven by an altruistic goal
    and if they contribure something of real value to society then I have no problem with them making a few bob from the fruits of their vision. For a charity bet I might even kiss the ass of such a person and even suggest a fitting memorial to them after they have
    passed away.

    Brother Andrew Kerins from Ballymore was such a visionary. After landing in Glasgow he
    was driven to tackle the wretched poverty and conditions of thousands of his fellow countrymen who were living in the east end slums. These people had been through hell after fleeing the famine and were now living in a country where they were most unwelcome. They had no access to those things many take for granted in a civilised society: jobs, culture, art, sports etc. Brother Andrew was a determined man however.

    A piece of ground was rented next to the Janefield Street cemetery at a cost of £50 PA yet after three years the rent was incresed to £500. So you see the Gom is not a species
    peculiar to Ireland but has been in migrant form for many a year.

    What these people did next was move across the road to an disused quarry which was in such a poor state that no one could put a price on it. It was virtually worthless. Brother Kerins said to his people: “We will build our own football ground and build it with our bare hands if need be. It sounds a like Joey the Lips line, maybe, but the spirit is undeniable.

    Charity money was used to feed the poor immigrant Irish and extra food was given to the volunteers working on shifting 100,000 cartloads of earth to prepare the site. When the new football ground opened all those volunteers watched the game from from the terraces and finally had a place to call their spirutual home. It was theirs. Many commentators said it was the finest football stadium in Britain. The tricolour was flown as a celebration of their Irish roots and identity and it proudly flies over Janefield Street cemetery to this day.

    There were entrepreneurs helping Brother Andrew build this dream and it was they who made it happen in the finacial sense. Celtic became a football club like no other in the world and the wizardy of the legends down the years has been a relfection of the character of those who watched them play – the outsiders. One man had a vision and thousands followed him because they knew in their heart of hearts that he was a good man and that the cause was a noble one.

    What this tale demonstrates is that those who are outsiders can be strong if they have a shared identity because identity brings people together in various shapes and forms. The Irish in Glasgow have always been outsiders yet in the years since they have managed to push their brightest people to the top of the professions, the arts and in the sporting world. If someone was bright but poor then the money would somehow be made available for them to go in pursuit of their dream.

    The Artist’s Way warns us about the ego and how it can destroy us. Ego can also make a
    successful person forget their roots and who they are and Bono has just popped into my mind right now – where is he when his people need guys with that kind of influence? All
    these people are too distant and inaccesible to the ordinary joe(sephine). All it would take to make a real change in Ireland right now would be a day of solidarity with a free U2 concert in the Phoenix park. Everyone understands the potential of music, it’s healing powers and its ability to bring people together. Of course to have any real credibility Bono would first need make a sizeable contribution to an altruistic cause. People would forgive him and return him to the fold like the wayword brother who just lost the run of himself for a while. No man is irredeemable after all. Unfortunately soldidarity in Ireland now feels like an old and ancient concept which only applied when everyone was poor. This won’t change any time soon and I won’t be holding my breath. Everything has been set up for the entrepreneur/gom mentality and the politicians speak in their tongue. This is because some of the politicans actually are
    entrepreneur/goms and it is not in their interests to demand open government and personal accountability.

    Brother Kerins taught us what people can achieve when they are united in the face of
    adversity but unfortunately we are now living in a society which has been designed around
    individualism and selfishness. We put ‘Dragons’ on television and tell our people to
    aspire to that mindset. These people are money maniacs who are interested only in patent rights and profit margins and what Charles Dickens was writing about still holds true today and should serve as a warning. As a result of their greed ragged trousered children in poor countries need to work in conditions where they are at danger from losing a limb or by becoming old way before their time. Sorry for the cheery subject matter but this is just a fact of life.

    There are better ways to live and more inspiring icons to follow. The idea of a bunch of renegades plotting and planning while eating beer and sandwiches in a rotting slum
    building is a guiding light for many. It is a story of unselfish devotion and humility to
    a cause, and men being men, we just can’t fail to feel inspired by the romantic notion of
    it all. But it happened and it made the world a better place because it’s founding goal was for the inclusion of all. A dream built by outsiders for outsiders.

    In this modern media age people are conditioned to adore millionaire heros and people work hard and save for trips to Liverpool, Manchester and Glasgow in pursuit of flashing moments of glory. It is not what it was in the past when flat caps were in vogue
    but the feelings are the same. When you are among a crowd of people who you identify with it makes you feel invincible and there is no power in the universe which can extinguish
    the light.

    Entrepreneur joke:
    My accountant found me so many tax deductions that I had money left over for bail!

    PS. I just noticed that you need to go to the last page to post a comment. It would be
    great if you could put the ‘Leave a reply’ form right below the article.

    • Malcolm McClure says:

      The fault, dear Pauldiv, is not in our stars,
      But in ourselves, that we are underlings.
      Celtic gives ex-(Fitz)pats everywhere something to aspire to. Ten points adrift at the moment though.

    • Deco says:

      ” day of solidarity with a free U2 concert ”

      Listen…a piece of advice….whatever you are smoking….it might not be good for you in the long term. Especially considering the way things get done in the HSE.

      U2 get far more out of Ireland than Ireland will ever get out of US. Collection of pompous shysters. See through the myth.

      • Deco says:

        Correction.

        U2 get far more out of Ireland than Ireland will ever get out of U2.

        The US in contrast has always been an honest friend and supporter for Ireland, economically and politically.

      • Pauldiv says:

        What I smoke is none of your business Deco.

        Of course U2 are a bunch of shysters and to my mind the biggest myth of all is that they are a rock band. Real rock bands play real lead guitar and not that sysnthesised electronic crap edge comes out with. Lizzy were a real rock band and so was the boy Rory.

        In 1991 there was a free day of music in Glasgow at three open air venues. All the top Scottish band were there – Deacon Blue, Big Country, Wet Wet Wet etc. It being a free event meant that the bands were not paid for performing. There was a great family atmosphere on the day and it is one of my best memories of that era.

        Scotland is a very different place mind you and in Ireland this would never happen. Too much infighting, begrudgery and small mindedness.

        Cheer up Deco and try to write with more empathy.

    • Colin_in_exile says:

      A very good post Pauldiv.

      I said here a couple of weeks ago that I would not work for a gombeen without receiving a wage. I would, however, work for free if my skills were desired by people who weren’t looking to exploit our unemployed.

  9. Incident says:

    The European Commission examined the updated stability and convergence
    programmes (SCPs) of Belgium, Bulgaria, Germany, Estonia, Ireland, Spain,
    France, Italy, the Netherlands, Austria, Slovakia, Sweden, Finland and the
    United Kingdom. Overall, for the majority of the fourteen programmes, the
    growth assumptions underlying the budgetary projections are assessed as
    rather optimistic, implying that budgetary outcomes might be worse than
    targeted. Furthermore, in several cases, the budgetary consolidation
    strategy is not sufficiently backed up by concrete measures from 2011
    onwards. [The commentary on the UK was particularly negative].
    Summary at
    http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/10/288&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

    Country specific reports at
    http://ec.europa.eu/economy_finance/sgp/convergence/programmes/2009-10_en.htm

    Dramatic revisions to UK government borrowings in January and February data
    imply its forecast for 2009 may have been over-cautious [or that monthly
    numbers can be quite unreliable].

  10. What is wrong in this country?

    QUOTE: His arrest was one element of a “long and complex” inquiry, the Garda sources said, and criminal files on the issues under investigation would not be sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions until further inquiries were conducted. END QUOTE

    Fitzpatricks dealings range from oil fields to, golf clubs, printing houses (RTE Guide), sub prime lenders, bars in Las Vegas and so on, the dogs on the street were barking about the shamed banker who taps into tax payers money to gamble on possible fortunes since way over a year now.

    Between them FitzPatrick and Lar Bradshaw have even splashed out on healthcare clinics, publishing, land rental, hedge funds, golf resorts, luxury hotels, mobile phones and foreign property deals.

    They were behind failed sub-prime lenders Fresh Mortgages, who offered home loans to people who couldn’t get finance elsewhere.

    So the current results are that one year after the “dramatic” raid of Anglo, they made another “dramatic” arrest, and then?

    Why arrest him in the first place if not charging him?
    One can only conclude this to be another FF driven PR stunt before the first transactions of Anglo into NAMA will take place.

    Interesting twist, the buddies were both on the board of the Dublin docklands. Bradshaw held shares in second IFSC property.

    RTE’s Pat Kenny and Sean Dunne were co-owners.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bradshaw-held-share-in-second-ifsc-property-1794620.html

    Now, Deirdre de Burca believed that in the public interest a document concerning the semi state driven Dublin Docklands authority was in urgent need to be made public before it is buried too deep.

    How stupid do they all believe the public really is? Complex inquiries, difficult procedures, blah blah blah.

    The cover up activities that is still going on in this country, it is a disgrace.

    I must admit, although I disagree, by now I can understand when good friends of mine said to me, ” You know what, honestly, they make me feel ashamed being irish.”

  11. John ALLEN says:

    Eye in The Storm – Should NAMA be in situ next month then we should insist that it is Federalised to include the errant nations on the fringe and allow it become a Federal Financial Skip with it’s European HQ in Dublin thus creating thousands of new jobs.This could be the beginning of a Federacy of Financial Security Authority …thus National Amalgam de Monitaire Assurance .

  12. John ALLEN says:

    Duck Race :
    I am reminded of a special swim race in Kilkee many many years ago where the event was to swim after the duck and catch it .As it happened I was last to be able to get into the water by which stage the duck and the other swimmers were well out in the water and I had no chance.Just as I was entering the water to swim the duck turned round to swim back to shore again .All I had to do was stay under the water until he swam over me and then snatch him which is what I did .So I won.The message is take the luck where you find it.

    • wills says:

      John ALLEN.

      I can’t tell you how much truth is in this, in my viewpoint.

      • John ALLEN says:

        It’s my idea against the background of what the international press are currently reporting .

        • John ALLEN says:

          wills – my instinct tells me that Germany is a Duck and will want to prioritise its self sovereignty and for them to remain inside the euro would warrant its depletion of its controlled reserves on the international markets .This must not be allowed to happen.Thus it would consider it better to lose what it cannot control within the euro otherwise the external domino effect for them would cause greater uncontrolled financial losses .This is a damage limitation exercise and would pacify the German electorate as a whole.
          The ordinary Germans are very anoyed and have been taken to hold gold instead .

  13. Tim says:

    maxkeiser/: The Kos Peasants: Let them eat crumbs!

    http://maxkeiser.com/2010/03/20/kos-crumb/

  14. DarraghD says:

    More nonsense and grandstanding from Fine gael today, talking absolute and utter bullshit about creating 100,000 jobs if they ever get into power…. Since when did you ever have to be in government before you could create jobs???

    Why don’t these assholes step up to the plate and create jobs now like some of us are doing, as they claim to have all the answers on job creation??? Oh yeah, there are the small little matters of competence, ability, work ethic, intelligence, etc…

    That’s the problem with this country, for every person like my self who starts up a business and creates jobs, there are a thousand arseholes who want to talk about how to do it…

    • Deco says:

      That’s very cynical of you.

      You must know…that…there were no jobs in Ireland until the politicians came along.

      You are correct. Absolute nonsense. The political system is designed to tax the sweat of the competent and send the proceeds to the incompetent. If there was no government and no political establishment, the economy would get along fine.

      Do you understand the concept of ‘symbiosis’ ? It means that a parasitic body must not take too much off the host or else it faces extermination itself. Well this is the dilemma faced by large sections of the Irish economy as the economy contracts. They are ideologically driven by self interest(this applies to both left and right). But they are posturing about the common interest. It does not help their cause when people have them sussed out : )))

      FG will start the new era in government by instuting a new quango for jobs. Oh, hold on…have we not already got 800 of those already ??

      My sentiments exactly. I just wonder did the FG jobs policy say anything about our poor cost competitiveness, and the jobs that are being lost. I wonder are FG doing anything about hanger 6, except maybe ensuring that they don’t offend the ILP interests in Aer Lingus and the DAA ?

      FG sat on their hands during the Hanger 6 business. Therefore I cannot take them seriously concerning jobs.

  15. John ALLEN says:

    Deco : drawing your conclusions we must have a symbiocratic economy as in man eats dog and can no longer bark for himself.

    • Deco says:

      A classic example is Dublin Airport. The first thing they did when demand went down, was increase prices. Absolute no effort to drive demand back up again. It was a case of the passengers exist for our benefit. That comes from a board that includes Larry Goodman’s former right hand man, Bullshit Bill, and SITPU placemen. (nearly certain that they are men – chances are they have beards as well). A case of corporate bosses and union bosses looking after themselves.

  16. Deco says:

    Seanie Fitz, and the interviewing process in Bray.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0320/1224266710923.html?via=mr

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0320/1224266710600.html?via=rel

    This could trouble a lot of people. People who could be exposed as absolute hypocrites. And I would like to know where Irish Company Law stands on this. Usually Irish Company Law exists as a tool to prevent the Common Law from exercising some form of accountability. In other words, Irish Company Law is often an ‘Insiders charter to cheat and misbehave without being made in any way liable’.

    By the way, if Anglo went under that time, it probably would have suckered Permo as well. And Permo is the most solvent Irish managed bank (officially at least). This could get very ugly.

    The Irish concept of Management is in the toilet. Utter incompetence and failure abound.

  17. John ALLEN says:

    Deco : Irish Company Law is stringent and transparent and tougher than British Company Law.What you seek is a remedy under Irish Law in General and specifically Criminal Law .Its the weakness in our enforcement and volumn of enactments of criminal law that makes it difficult to prosecute .An example is we have no law for treason .Had we a prosecutions would be easy .

  18. Tull McAdoo says:

    Listen up people, I have just got off the phone to one of the Detectives who interviewed Seanie Fitz, and he tells me that Seanie has named the main man, behind all this credit and property bubbles and his name is Kaiser Soze. Fitzy explained how this Keating and Kobiashi set up the real scam, something about convincing people that they did not exist, like the devil it seems.
    Well to cut a long story short, he faxed me over an artists impression of Kaiser Soze, and ye had better be sitting down for this this one, because Kaiser Soze is Jackie Healy Rae. It seems he has been running a huge empire built on credit default swaps, contracts for difference, currency carry trades and medical cards from his local office in South Kerry. Jackie is Mr. Big and as a side note it seems that the Bull O’Donoghue was’nt just off pissing about at the taxpayers expense all these years, living the high life with Kate Ann, but was in fact Jacki’s bag man. There ye have it folks straight from the mouth of Seanie Fitz………….

    • Pauldiv says:

      I simply don’t believe you Tull old boy.
      Kaiser Soze is so invisible that even God does not know who he is or his whereabouts.

    • John ALLEN says:

      Tull :
      It is in South Kerry that the mountains in Ireland remain in longer sessions of passionate kisses with the heavens than anywhere else.During this embrace the clouds come down to cover the blankets of heat from the peat and the resulting effect are always clouded in secrecy.

  19. Tim says:

    Folks, have a look: “Boston or Berlin”, said Harney:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7069616.ece

  20. Tim says:

    Folks, ‘Anglo 10’ plan known to regulator –

    http://bit.ly/a3yspt

    (which may assume dpt of Finance OK.ed it too)

    via @Vcurrentaffairs.

  21. Tim says:

    Folks, Gurdgiev is reall good here, drawing on Brian Lucey’s work to analyse the foreign/competition contribution to bank failures, versus developer contribution:

    http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/

    • cbweb says:

      However, we were fooled that the symptoms of the property boom, crazy speculation, obscene property prices, were themselves evidence of a rising economy based on indices such as the above and not evidence of an economy in headless flight to perdition.

      Most of all we were fooled that someone smart was in charge and that the economy was being managed by politicians and bankers with due prudence and diligence.

      Instead the regulatory, political and banking system became corrupted to the point due diligence and prudence got thrown out the window.

      Incompetence continues as the same shysters attempt to save their asses through NAMA.

      If you thought you escaped any of the above shenanigans, this time their aim is to screw each and every one of us.

      Welcome aboard the NAMA titanic!

      • cbweb says:

        indices of a truely growing economy being lots of inward investment into new industry, rising exports from indigenous industry, greater competitiveness, greater productivity, greater GDP, e.g rising productions/exports from Agriculture. Add your own to this list.

        At its root maybe a sustainable model that becomes a template/target against which growth and investment gets measured and planned for?

        Not incompetent obedience to pillock swindlers we’ve had and continue to have.

  22. cbweb says:

    Not to be missed. Valuations delayed once again, NAMA already failing before it gets going.

    We may need to renegotiate and go another way sooner rather than later.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,661720,00.html
    Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble may save us. I believe he’s pushing Merkel to follow a different tack with Greece and the other PIIGS. Help them out of the euro.

    This would make better economic sense than having countries like Ireland slowly strangle themselves with NAMA as they further damage the euro .

    Public opinion in Germany is against any Greek bailout.

    The ECB must be losing patience with Lenihan’s NAMA with the constant delays and the constant revising down of expectations and we still have not got to the point of any court challenges by developers unhappy with their valuations.

    Pretty soon is will be apparent to all anything is better than NAMA and FF beleaguered cosiness with toxic bankers and toxic developers .

    Why pour our children’s taxes down the shore before they’re born!!

  23. wills says:

    CBWEb @22.

    “incompetence.”

    Disagree entirely.

    The POnzi property bubble was engineered by ‘insiders’ in alignment through a crony network working the hubs of K club, IBEC, dail and meeja houses.

    All tapped into the AIG provided arbitrage fad which made possible to go max on banking fractional reserve and milk juice and game the rigged market in Ireland in property till the bubble burst.

    • wills says:

      …..and they all knew and had ready to go the emergency plans for when the Ponzi property bubble did burst.

      In my opinion the bubble burst sooner than they had anticipated …. which threw them for a loop and meant the clean up became alot more sloppier and hence we have the ANIB / GUARANTEE / NAMA panto unfolding before us.

      • wills says:

        Reminds me of a gangaster plot and the mop up after the crime goes pear shaped due to an unforseen event.

        Whats the unforseen event in this case.

        I think it is the bubble bursting sooner than the insiders expected it to burst so they were literally all caught on the hop.

        Actually, I think all of this farce since the bubble burst is more about ‘sloppy’ getaways in the glare of headlights more than anything else.

        • wills says:

          …and up until now the whole debacle has managed to hold even though most people hearing and watching the news on all of the post bubble panto stuff smell a rat, but cant seem to just get the right picture on what is going on.

          Which again appears to me to be the following……..

          The Ponzi property bubble burst sooner than expected and the engineers and beneficiaries were literally caught ‘in the POnzi scamming act’.

          Maybe they just could not pull themselves away from all the riches the Ponzi property scam jackpot was dishing out and in their hubris and omnipotence figure it s all manageable (like harry on late late) and they figure they have the ‘dough’ to do whatever they want anyway.

          • ps200306 says:

            It’s a common fallacy to ascribe to malice what can more easily be explained by ignorance.

            The property bubble was not masterminded by some shadowy “Dr.Evil”. It was the unintended consequence of lax regulation, and the people of Ireland were willing collaborateurs.

          • wills says:

            Never said it was.

            You use those terms NOT me PS200…..

    • cbweb says:

      Wills@25

      Actually we don’t disagree. I should have been more specific.

      ‘Incompetence’ I level mostly at our politicians whose job we supposedly believed was to be ‘minding the shop’.

      http://informationarbitrage.typepad.com/

      “Since 1973, the Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) has been the designated organization in the private sector for establishing standards of financial accounting. Those standards govern the preparation of financial statements. They are officially recognized as authoritative by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) (Financial Reporting Release No. 1, Section 101, and reaffirmed in its April 2003 Policy Statement) and the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (Rule 203, Rules of Professional Conduct, as amended May 1973 and May 1979). Such standards are important to the efficient functioning of the economy because investors, creditors, auditors, and others rely on credible, transparent, and comparable financial information.

      The SEC has statutory authority to establish financial accounting and reporting standards for publicly held companies under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Throughout its history, however, the Commission’s policy has been to rely on the private sector for this function to the extent that the private sector demonstrates ability to fulfill the responsibility in the public interest.”

      While the Irish Regulatory system failed the job it was supposedly put there to do, there were distinct differences between the largely paper based/liquid derivatives scam of Lehmans et al and the Irish property bubble.

      The biggest difference being the Irish collapse is property related fanned into flame by Section 23 property incentives, bad planning to the point of the destruction of the Irish countryside and the lack of political leadership to moderate this.

      The type of incompetence I’m talking about is embedded in the sad irony of Bertie Ahearn’s ‘confidence speech’ .

      Compare to yesterdays revelations of the number of suicides caused by the meltdown, reference the Sunday Independent article
      http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html

      While you are right to attribute devious cunning to the bankers in milking the system re the AIG provided arbitrage fad which made it possible to go max on the banking fractional reserve, this alone did not infect the Irish market until the political lure of a killing to be made using that money in the property arena became clear.

      The go ahead for this, see Bertie’s speech, was a political dumb ass piece of extraordinary cringe factor arrogant incompetence that has us the laughing stock of Europe!!

      I’m sure you’ve viewed this essential viewing:)
      http://www.politics.ie/economy/125986-david-mcwilliams-interview-max-keiser-show.html

      Around 19mins in Anglo, discussion turns to how Ernst & Younge audited the accounts of Anglo, subject of fraud inquiry, and now have been given similar work for NAMA.

      The ‘incompetence’ charge I level at FF both in fanning the flames of the property bubble urged on by their property developer and banking cronies.

      For the Regulator plus Ernst @ Younge until we have the Inquiry cover up complete, its hard to apportion what level of blame to ‘crooked’ accounting practices or to ‘incompetence’ but I take your point re bankster cunning leveraging the crazy throwaway of fractional reserve brakes rigging the property market in Ireland.

      • cbweb says:

        And NAMA is a continuation and perpetuation of the scam, down to the level of each and every taxpayer.

        Biggest waste of public money ever in this State!

  24. John ALLEN says:

    ps2003/06 – I disagree with you .I personally and professionally and alone made a presentation to the sitting at the National Crime Forum in Civic Offices in Limerick ( filmed and on DVD ) informing them of Banking Criminalities and Bankers .
    The Department of Justice were not interested .The National Crime Forum in its summary conclusions made no reference about Irish Banking .Someone high up in FF was on the take if not all of them were .I filed it because I wanted to protect myself from any allegations by the Press who were present at the sitting.As it so happened the press never reported my submission .

  25. John ALLEN says:

    copies of ‘ national crime forum report ‘ are available from Inst of Public Administration http://www.ipa.ie

  26. John ALLEN says:

    white-collar- crime
    The report does say that it heard very little about white collar crime and that the only presentation presented to them was as a result of a response to a request by the Forum .I confirm I did receive a written request from the Forum to make the presentation.
    Nevertheless , what I presented landed senseless in their craniums .I believe they just could not believe what I was saying was real or possible .My submissions were million of miles from their grasp of reality .It was like that they wanted to believe that the magician is real and when he pulled out the rabbit from the hat that the rabbit was never there in the first place .That boyish innocence prevailed in the report and in denial of reality.

  27. liam says:

    David, interesting.

    @Wills, ps200306

    it seems to be a bit of both in fact. I too have an uneasy feeling about the idea that this was centrally orchestrated. But there is no doubt that certain individuals were gaming the system to maximise their benefits, in the full knowledge of the likely consequences of their actions. It looks like the difference in opinion here is whether it was a top-down or a bottom-up operation.

    My own view is that the complete absence of regulation facilitated abuse, plain and simple. In a suitably complex system of individual actors that allows asymmetries, they will inevitably emerge. But even the most avaricious of politicians could not have predicted the fine details of what has happened so far, and no doubt the whole thing is a bankers wet dream What makes me question the top-down hypothesis, since the regulators and legislators are also agents within the system rather than its controllers. Nama, as Wills suggests, is the administrative endgame of this process and proof that nothing essential has changed in the system of governance and regulation.

    So, David, although I am sympathetic to the underlying optimism of the OP, the practical reality is that there is a major constraint on emerging new ideas and that is the lack of access to credit. This is the proximate cause of failure of most new businesses anywhere in the world. Since in Ireland’s case this stems from a system with significant and extreme inbuilt asymmetries (or as David puts it “insiders and outsiders” or as Wills puts it, market rigging) nothing short of a revolution in the system of government is required if any of this is to have a fair chance of succeeding.

    • liam says:

      correction: What makes me question the top-down hypothesis is that the regulators and legislators are also agents within the system…

      • ps200306 says:

        Agree with you liam. Also, the lack of an explicit top-down conspiracy and the collaboration of the citizenry in the property bubble STILL doesn’t mean that we should be on the hook for bank debts and NAMA.

  28. John ALLEN says:

    cbweb – slick on the url and it does work

  29. cbweb says:

    @ John Allen 31

    url works but doesn’t link me to ‘national crime forum report’, doesn’t come up in their search?
    not publicly available then?

  30. John ALLEN says:

    cbweb -
    yes you will see the book when you examine / search the ‘other publications ‘ by that institute .seriously it is there .

  31. If the guys at Farmleigh were right about the value of Culture why are they so out of synch with the majority of today’s press who judge Mary Hannafin’s appointment to the new Ministry of Culture a demotion?.

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