Outsiders pay for insider greed

March 14, 2010


Yesterday, I visited my father’s grave in Shankill. He passed away this week last year. Listening to I’m Only Sleeping by the Beatles – a song that always reminds me of him and where he is now – I looked out over the cemetery, which is an elevated site.

It is a beautiful spot. To the west, you have the still-snowcapped Wicklow Mountains, and just behind you the Irish Sea crashes onto the beach.

The late afternoon sun was dipping between the Sugarloaf and the lead mines, and the place was quiet, empty and peaceful. This is the type of natural beauty my Dad loved, and the setting prompted lots of tongue tied aunties to tell me last year that he’d appreciate his resting place.

Other people appreciated this place too, it appears – but for very different reasons.

The geniuses at Davy Stockbrokers were taken by it at the height of the boom. They saw ‘‘potential uplift’’, as they might have said back then. So too did their private clients and the developer Joe O’Reilly – one of Anglo’s Golden Circle.

In fact, so taken were they that they paid €58 million for a huge site next to the cemetery. The site, Woodbrook, where the golf club used to be, lies beside the graveyard, just beyond the Protestant church.

In July 2006 this 51-acre site was bought for over €1 million euro per acre without full planning permission. According to a glowing article in the Sunday Times back then, the fully-developed site would be worth close to €1 billion when it was developed.

The Davy private client consortium was asked to put up what is called mezzanine finance- a kind of bridging loan for rich people – which plugs the gap between the developer’s equity, the bank’s loan and the purchase price. For this loan, the private clients were to be paid an astronomical 17 per cent per year.

Anyway, now it is all over, and Davy admitted last week that the investors might get 5c for every €1 they invested, if they are lucky. If I were one of these private clients, I’d be livid with Davy and the salespeople who put together this little deal.

I’d also be kicking myself as to how I thought it possible a deal could carry a 17 per cent interest rate – when bank rates were 3 per cent – and not be risky. Then again, when greed takes over, all logic goes out the window. Anyway, the house of cards has come tumbling down here in Shankill, as it has all over the country in other sites and deals.

However, for the average citizen – ordinary people like my father, who never got involved in all this carry-on – the sickening part of the Davy Stockbrokers publication last week was that we – not they – are going to pay for this greed, through Nama.

In a nauseating paragraph, Davy says in its report that ‘‘Nama is likely to be the only institution that will have the capacity to provide development finance to build out development projects and thereby provide some capacity for return’’.

There it is, in black and white. his toxic loan, which the promoters say now is worth 0.05 per cent of what it was originally, will be given to the taxpayer to fund. What sort of nonsense is this? This land should be sold now to whoever wants to buy it and the Davy private client T consortium, the loan and the developer should be allowed to suffer.

That’s not to say they can’t start again, but this Nama scam is of no value to Irish society, other than to confirm that the banks and the government are giving the two fingers to the rest of us. But it gets worse because, in order to keep Anglo, one of the main financiers of the property bubble open, lots of things have gone on behind our backs, but in our name.

Anglo needs cash, but the only bits of collateral it has are these worthless loans. The European Central Bank knows this stuff is worthless, and won’t lend Anglo money against this trash. But our own Central Bank will, using our money.

In the past year, the Irish Central Bank has lent €10 billion to Anglo, using an instrument that it would prefer you knew nothing about. This instrument, called the ‘‘master loan repurchase agreement’’, is a hangover from when we had our own currency. Evidence of its existence is buried deep in the Central Bank’s balance sheet under the ambiguous title ‘‘other assets’’.

The reason this is important is that it shows that, since Anglo was nationalised, it has gobbled up another €10 billion of our money. When Enda Kenny says there will be riots if Anglo receives another cent of public money, in a way he is behind the times. The money has already been given to Anglo, via this secretive facility.

Since last March, the Central Bank has lent Anglo €10 billion in return for so called collateral of €14.5 billion. But the only collateral Anglo has are worthless loans like the land for Woodbrook golf course in Shankill, which Davy Stockbrokers now estimates is worth 5 per cent of its 2006 purchase price.

If we were to apply the same discount to the Central Bank’s loan to Anglo, we would see that the Central Bank – acting in our name – has lent €10 billion in exchange for collateral that is worth just over €750million.SotheCentral Bank has probably already lost over €9 billion. The only way this will ever be recovered is if Nama succeeds in driving the price of this land in Shankill backup.

But who wants this? The very rich private clients of Davy Stockbrokers, for one, who are betting that Nama will bail themout. Who pays for this class rescue scheme? You do!

I left the grave yesterday, contemplating, among other things, what my father and his generation would make of this pathetic game, where the poor pay for the rich in order to legitimise the latter’s greed. What would they think of the insiders once again shafting the outsiders?

My father’s generation – born in the 1930s – built this country. They emigrated in the 1950s in huge numbers when the insiders who ran the place drove it into the ground with their isolationism. When the rest of the world boomed in the 1950s, Ireland – run by the grandparents of the politicians who run the place now – stagnated.

My father’s generation paid the high tax of the 1970s, only to see their children emigrate in the 1980s when the parents of this present government ran the place into the ground yet again.

And now, as that heroic 1930s and 1940s generation is passing away, they leave a country where their grandchildren will pay for the greed and the incompetence of the insiders for a third time. And the little under-the-counter strokes, like the Central Bank’s sweetheart deal with Anglo, continue on the basis that the insiders will give the bill to the outsiders yet again, and continue as if nothing happened.




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237 Comments. Most recent comments first.
  1. baNAMArama says:

    Anybody have any experience of organising a demonstration, protest march, petition etc ? I am game and would like to hear from some collaborators.

    • tirnanog33 says:

      David McWilliams charisma and personality and exposure to the media would kick start a sit in in Kildare Street (young ,idle & unemployed ? bring your sleeping bags,a small tent, and a few joints,and of course a guitar )
      However he would never get a job in Ireland,ever again.!

  2. okcomputer says:

    I worked for this Davy crowd in the front office. I never seen such greed in my life. Organisation is structured from top down to generate as much from clients as possible. The number of private equity and property deals per month were staggering. Each time management setting portfolio managers higher and higher targets to sell to clients. PMs pushing inappropriate deals onto clients who trusted so called ‘expert investment managers’. Im am not one bit surprised that a number of these deals have turned sour. REO and CREO – Johnny Ronan et al(no need to say more), Woodbrook, Irish Glass bottle site disaster, Ballymore and Sean Mulryan. ITs an absolute joke. They have no interest in the client, all that matters is how much Davy can generate out of the deal.

    • Welcome okcomputer, and thanks for your valuable observations. I think you expressed very well the climate and ethic in these offices. Pushing inappropriate deals….it is not an exception but rather the rule, the “culture” that was developed deliberately in what we describe now as predator capitalism .

      • wills says:

        I think laughingbear it s alot more complicated, predator capitalism is merely a concept deserving of serious deconstruction.

  3. Tumbrel Cart says:

    NAMA is A MABS for millionaires with future generations to pick up the bill. There is clearly no shortage of discretionary money with property tycoons. (Witness Johnny Ronan).
    The whole credit / property bubble was one gigantic fraud. NAMA is an even bigger fraud. We should not be surprised that the people who allowed and participated in the first fraud now try an even bigger one.
    In relation to the oversupply of unfinished or empty houses and hotels that will be transferred to NAMA we now need to make use of these assets. Let me sketch out some ideas.

    1. All houses/ hotels and commercial buildings should be finished properly with money provided by NAMA. The idea recently mooted of bulldozing thousands of houses while thousands of building workers are unemployed is simply obscene as well as economic madness.
    2. These properties should then be marketed as free holiday homes in fly drive or similar packages. The resulting money spent would benefit the country.
    3. Existing competing businesses could be protected by requiring holiday makers to spend four weeks, three weeks free and one week in non-NAMA accommodation.
    4. Competing businesses could also be subsidised on an employee headcount basis to offset the loss to their businesses.
    5. Commercial building could be leased to incoming FDI at their economic rent. ( zero), thereby creating employment.
    6. If NAMA is unwilling to put up the money to finish the buildings, then sell these houses for one euro each, with the proviso that they must be completed within three years and a substantial bonded guarantee given to this effect.

    We now have assets whose effective economic cost is zero. The State should nationalise these at zero cost and use them to create a future for the people of the country.

  4. —- LET’S WRAP IT UP ! —-
    or….put a face to the business

    Where and when do you get your ideas?

    Being a landscape photographer, I often have the opportunity to spend quality time with my dog in Donegal’s landscape, this is where I can rest my mind and make room for creative ideas.

    Imagine this scene….

    RTE News at six

    This was the scene in Dublin this morning on a fine spring day. The first sunlight hit the NAMA building, but something changed…..

    ….The whole lower part of the building is wrapped in prints, like Cristo wrapped monuments with permission, only this time, the people of ireland wrapped the building…..

    For two weeks a handful of photographers took pictures, and with permission, they photographed the faces of people who oppose NAMA throughout Ireland, then they printed the more than 25,000 faces and long banners and wrapped the building.

    David MC Williams the initiator of this art project____ or fill in any public figure who is willing to sponsor and drive, had this to say:

    …..7 MAIN points against NAMA….

    Now, Malcom, THIS (unfortunately) is fantasy.
    (smiles)

    Get some funding together, activate some photographers to do the job, get 25,000 faces in 2 weeks, print them and wrap the buillding over night.

    • The longer I think about it…

      Each photo of the thousands of faces should have a single sentence under it, a single line statement of the individual person why they oppose NAMA.

      Just thinking out loud, may be there is a way to perform such an art project legally, If we could get enough support for it? Probably not, but may be worth thinking about.

      Logistics:

      26 counties in S-Ireland, each county should activate 10 photographers who are willing to do the job without pay for 14 consecutive days, may be spread out over 1 month, or whatever is do able.

      25,000 faces / 26 counties= 962 per county ~ish

      10 photographers per county.

      962 faces /10 = 96 faces divided by 14 days is round about 7 faces per day.

      Looking at these numbers the task could easily be achieved.

      Then the stuff needs to be printed on weather proof material and somehow wrapped around the building.

      25,000 faces in 2 weeks, now I need a mathematician who could run figures and extrapolate how this figure could be made representative for the whole country. 25k faces in 2 weeks approximate a x% opinion against NAMA in Ireland.

      Sorry folks, it is just an idea…. and may be such is impossible to do in Ireland, I really don’t know, personally I like the idea, it is a peaceful protest, but with a concise message.

      Of course, numbers could be higher, project adjustable, but something like this I imagine to be of value to help stopping this insane rip off.

      • wills says:

        laugingbear.

        Most people have no clue what NAMA is.

        • I hope you are wrong, but how do you come to this conclusion?

          • ….It was just an idea that I put in front of you here…. the rest is not only up to me…..

          • one last sentence to this idea for now….

            Personally I am fed up with posting, I feel it is time to DO SOMETHING, probably this the reason why I came up with that idea. I think 25K faces / statements is a powerful message and it need not be the last. Too long people do not voice their opinion, and here is a chance to put their face to the business in an easy way for them.

            just my 0,02 cents

          • The background of the faces on the banners should be euro coins and notes…. ok, now I shut up (grins)

      • wills says:

        laughinbear.

        “fed up posting’…… try distilling your musings into variation on a theme tied in with your developing understanding of the immensity of the subject matter.

        On my understanding of the assertion ‘most irish people have no clue on NAMA’.

        Beciause, 1, they are involved in it and so busy keeping it a secret, or, 2, outside of it so busy paying their bills, or, 3, outside of it and confused on its facts.

      • Your.Country.Your.Fault says:

        as a matter of fact, I think this is a really compelling idea, and is workable. SCREW funding, do it pro bono.

        so. what you need are a combination of people and the internet. the internet alone is too easily blown around by the zeitgeist (pardon my use of your native tongue). people alone is a bit too 80s tech.

        people : find ten people, that’s 250 photos each. They canvass their friends and ask them if they a) oppose NAMA and b) are up for putting their name to it.

        if you can, advise your camera-wielding friends on how to franchise / delegate out to other camera nuts if they think they friends are on message with the plan.

        use of internet :

        either come with a wanky facebook group or go for gold as follows :

        buy a simple domain name and hosting for about 50 euros, install a simple content management system (joomla’s my fave) and upload the community builder component and a photo gallery component (there are infinity such components, all free). use a basic free template and clear the home page of all but the blog articles, and a gallery module that shows that latest 10 photos. set the upload file size to allow up to 5 MB as photos often reach that these days. upload photos from your camera at the end of every day (getting 10-15 photos a day means you will be done photoing within one month. on a big day, say you go to a town fair, etc, you can nab more). your friends will also refer people to you, and to your website. better if you can get them to pose for your photos, more powerful in a sense than them submitting their favourite pic taken in the pub when they didn’t look too fat. make it a real artistic statement. hand out a card with the domain name of the website, and ask people to check when their photo is online, and then they can register, log in and claim ownership of the photo through posting another photo with their name as caption, that IDs them proof positive as the owner of the photo taken by the photographer. even better, they comment on the photo (using a comment component that integrates with community builder) that shows the id pic of the person who commented. that’s a smoother way. Then the name / comment can be the caption to the photo. an SQL script will automate the process of capturing all comments and name related to a photo ID which can be the name of the photo file for ease of agglomeration later on.

        once 25000 different photos have been uploaded, commented on and crosschecked by your crowdsourced team of admins (people can volunteer to help the site when they register, and take on the role of photo admin, like wikipedia content admin, once they have been authenticated by the central admin,you could also appoint managers to delegate further and increase the reach of getting people on board rather than have it all go through a central admin bottleneck, an ACL component will do the trick here to give people roles and permissions, I think the latest joomla 1.6 beta has it all nicely taken care of) yo are ready to roll.

        Now, find a ncie graphic designer person who will come up with a nice tempalte for each photo and caption for the Not in my Name I mean Nama project.

        for a tiny cash outlay, maybe even sponorship by a web company for the hosting and development, the process can be done.

        but of course, you also need people to work for you. hence choose a cadre of abuot 5 people whom you trust and ask them to find the same and so on and so forth, and get them to find volunteers for photography and site admin.

        set a deadline, work to it, for each volunteer have regular meetings with your local cell and report to the person who got you on board. if you set the right process in train, the nuber of peopel involved will grow exponentially, you just need to make sure that it does nto require a central admin for all important steps, i.e. a bit al qaeda if you know what I mean.

        and yeah, get some micropayments (there are paypal modules for joomla to beat the band) from well wishers to put together the cash for the big print out.

        print it out and laminate it, the point is, this will be a reminder of when people are listened to (or not).

        no reason why it can’t happen, it’s a process than can be well defined, doesn’t require regulation, and will be its own PR best friend.

        main point : design the process well, manage the project with Germanic attention to detail and set a deadline for delivery (otehrwise the energy is dissipated and people procrastinate).

  5. Tim says:

    Uh-oh! “..Brown has been forced to admit he misled the House of Commons…”

    http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/2010/03/17/brown-admits-he-got-his-defence-sums-wrong/

  6. wills says:

    paddythepig.

    Whatever you think you are trying to catch tim out on, whatever it is, one thing is certain, the class A spoofers are either engineering NAMA, running NAMA or trying to sell NAMA to the rest of us patsies.

    • Tim says:

      paddythepig, wills, I am not spoofing;

      The information Paddy wants me to get for him, again, like his private secretary or his underling, is freely available to everyone and I posted it here for him before.

      For the salaries of Engineers, Paddy, you might try looking-up the engineers ireland .ie site, for a start?

      You just *might* find the salary surveys there?

      Then, you can take your pick of the education sites in order to find the salaries of teachers, like, say, the Department of education web site, education .ie, or any of the teacher union sites, like the TUI .ie site, INTO .ie, or the ASTI .ie.

      A good chance that you *might* find the information you seek on any of those, don’t you think?

      Then, you can see the comparison for yourself, Paddy – without any further need for your ad hominem attacks on me, demands upon me for information, for figures and, crucially, no need for you to *believe* what I write and constantly tell me that what I say has no proof or evidence, etc., etc..

      No spoofing here, Paddy; no lies here, Paddy.

      The truth is there, right out-in-the-open, if you choose to see it.

      Ah, here; I’ll help to give you a start, one more time:

      http://members.engineersireland.ie/resource/collection/389139AE-5743-4CA4-9E32-D32D2BBED308/Engineers_Ireland_Salary_Survey_2008.pdf

      … and:

      http://www.tui.ie/Salary_Scales/Default.286.html#Common

      But, no-doubt, that clearly delineated information will not be good enough and you will find some bizarre way to use it to “play the man, not the ball”, again.

      I can hardly wait……..

  7. wills says:

    YCYF.

    Brilliant post on breaking down laughingbears idea into reality and setting it to motion.

    Why don’t you do it, and I will come on board and assist, you know all this stuff inside out i do not, so, lets go for it.

    • Your.Country.Your.Fault says:

      cause I live [very] abroad! and you need someone on the ground in ireland to make calls and hassle people. LB is a self employed musician whose time may be self-manageable. Though his wife will wonder what is going on…

      for the technicalties of it, you do, hwoever need someone who can manage a website, and can put in a few hours every now and then to go through the latest issues, and content submissions.

      if you haven’t found someone in one week, get back to me. I strongly recommend a person on the ground. can’t all be done online

      for a concreate first step, I think you and LB should choose and buy a domain and standard hosting package. then look for the programmer. show them my post, they should lap it up, the challenge is nto the techncial oen, that is easily understood. it’s can you motivate people?

      tim, you are a teacher, get some kids on the case. after school they will learn / improve programming and it will be a cause that will keep them off the streets (or pounding them in a constructive fashion)

      let the snowball begin

      • Tim says:

        It began on the 1st of March, with a Facebook campaign, a website and a twitter campaign to drive numbers up.

        Look here:

        http://www.facebook.com/No2NAMA?ref=ts

        Then here:

        http://www.no2nama.org/

        And follow @No_2_NAMA on twitter.

        So, the infrastructure for your good suggestion and Laughingbear’s good idea, is already in place.

        • Your.Country.Your.Fault says:

          current sites lack focus. project will get lost. you need to focus on this one thing and this one thing alone or it will not happen. forget everything else and focus on this. I am deadly serious. this can’t be an also ran.

          read DMcW’s article today, for a new venture / art project, you build and tear it up again. don’t be sentimental abuot what you’ve done already, be ready to rip it up and focus again.

          No focus, no chance. “Do or do not,. there is no try”.

      • Your.Country.Your.Fault says:

        even better, other readers of this site, if you are waiting for direction for your energies and want to do something creative and true to your emotional frustration at what’s going on, then sign up for this inintiative by saying me too.

        then, wills you collate the names, and assign the first admins adn phtographers. Start small. take ONE photo and see how hard / easy ti is to get people to stick their necks out. if it picks up, it’l be hockey stick growth. IF it picks up. but as today’s DMcW article (the farmleigh one) says, it’s about risk and not worrying about failure.

        Tim, get some kids on the case. FF-nua will take forever to get off the ground, this will bring further and faster than doing the same old thing again

        • Tim says:

          Your.Country.Your.Fault, there is no difficulty in running this – the web-stuff is not a difficulty: both Foolish Penny and I have skills, there – though, due to my time-constraints, Foolish Penny has done all of the web-work, so far and I have concentrated on using twitter to drive numbers to the FB page.

          Without financial outlay, this is achieveable, if we all work together.

          Let’s see how many people here are willing to invest their time and effort – as that is what it takes, moreso than money.

          Believe me, on that!

        • cbweb says:

          @ YCYF

          Nope, your idea is too cumbersome. You need to keep it simple, KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid). I’ve a keen interest in photography myself but on the web everything has got to be at most two clicks away. Its too much of an ask to get people to take photos, upload them and manage them online.

          I favour content over appearance. At one time I did try to build a site around saying no to nama http://www.namasayno.com/ But
          I’m an individual with other commitments and lack the time to give to it.

          What you need is content. Strong content, published articles on NAMA.

          It would be fairly simple to create a database of urls and gather a library of such resources. A lot has been published, mostly by far in the negative.

          Once you have the database sorted, managed/edited by a consortium of volunteers, its straightforward to build around it a web interface with a search tool.

          When the public information tool is created, you can then add a forum with knowledge articles on how to lobby against NAMA, seek information, add polls etc.

          A couple of interactive eLearning modules would be helpful to get people up to speed on NAMA fast.

          A resident panel of experts could answer questions.

          A lot would depend on a solid editorial team with some nous and wits and bulshitOmeters good and ready for the long haul!

          • Your.Country.Your.Fault says:

            “”You need to keep it simple, KISS(Keep It Simple Stupid).”"

            Agreed.

            “”When the public information tool is created, you can then add a forum with knowledge articles on how to lobby against NAMA, seek information, add polls etc.

            A couple of interactive eLearning modules would be helpful to get people up to speed on NAMA fast.

            A resident panel of experts could answer questions.”"

            The old alzheimers kicking in already? :)

    • wills says:

      Taking it on board YCYF.

      WIll investigate the idea.

  8. cbweb says:

    @Malcolm,

    Time to take the gothic blinkers off, the reality is FF blew the boom.

    Membership of the EU brought in the easy European funds/subsiies and access to low cost money. Some of our indigenous industries even managed to survive the changeover.

    We even attracted in our fair share of foreign investment especially in the IT area.

    But incompetent management set fire to this tinderwood with Section 23 bubble incentives, tax reliefs of 40% for too many 5 star hotels and thousands of extra hotel rooms that burst the tourism industry…aided by corrupt alliances between bankers, developers and politicians.

    Crap politicians paved the way for a deregulatory flaunting of the rules. Due diligence was mocked by Bertie, who told the wise one’s raising alarm that they were preaching misery.

    This legacy is continued by the present alarming bunch of incompetent morons with their anti intellectualism and concealment/hiding of the true cost of NAMA to the taxpayer.

    I won’t launch into the litany of crap foisted on us by the present crew of incompetents, you’ve heard them all before, NAMA being the biggest mess of all. Having bet away the family silver on a rubbish property bubble, NAMA is betting away again on more rubbish, this time funded by our children’s taxes.

    To look for parallels you have to look elsewhere e.g Argentina’s Domingo Cavallo Finance Minister’s pillaging of the public infrastructure who was largely responsible for the unending growth of the debt in Argentina in the Menen years.

    Interesting (thanks g for the video urls) due obedience laws forgave crimes committed during the military dictatorship.

    More to the point, alliance was forged between big business and politicians which plundered the public purse. We, right now, have embarked on the same incompetent and corrupt path.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMiedzHeUzg&feature=related

    Re the following in D’s article,

    ” the ‘‘master loan repurchase agreement’’, is a hangover from when we had our own currency. Evidence of its existence is buried deep in the Central Bank’s balance sheet under the ambiguous title ‘‘other assets’’.

    I’m wondering is there more detail on these transactions. Is such detail available to the public?

    Is it possible, on an item per item basis, to discover what valuations have been placed on each item and how these figures have been arrived at?

    Re Davy, arn’t they regularly hauled out to give upbeat projections regarding NAMA and the banks, their
    clients of course major beneficiaries of any share increase they can muster.

    To listen to the news, the tide is on the turn, the worst is over. How the %##!! is the calculation made of the economy returning to growth when we’ve just taken on the ballast of €50+ billion to spend on destroying the competitiveness of our economy.

    There are going to be a lot more beggars on O Connell St, going forward!!

    • wills says:

      The 55 billion euro is freshly minted cash.

      The debt behind it is irrelevant to the ‘insiders’.

      They are clapping their hands in ecstasy at this NAMA bonanza.

      The debt behind it bears absolutely of no consequence as far as the ‘insiders’ are concerned.

      All they see is another brief case of ready cash, the debt behind it meaningless for them.

      The debt cast off into a far and distant place which the ‘insiders’ know will be fixed up if ever if need be.

    • Malcolm McClure says:

      cbweb: Can’t remember where i left the gothic blinkers but i hope you realise that I hold no brief to defend incompetents in the FF government. I think they are all scared witless by the present situation and the current symptoms of incompetence flow from that. I think they retain just sufficient sense to follow the directions oftheir departmental heads who in turn follow the advice of sensible people like McCarthy and Dukes. I must assume that there are some competent people pulling the strings or the whole show would have collapsed at least a year ago.

  9. Tim says:

    cbweb, and Folks, in general, I have been bothered by something for quite a while and, without prejudicing your thinking, let me put the question to you like this and see what you say:

    Willie McAteer, Head of Risk Management and Finance Director at Anglo Irish Bank,

    was using the (false) financial year-end “results to try and convince international investors to inject €1 billion into Anglo Irish Bank”. In Dec. 2008.

    Why?

    And why have we had to pay-in multiples of that €1 Billion, since?

    Anybody have a take on this, so I can check my own thinking, please?

    • cbweb says:

      @ Tim,

      Anglo is subject of Garda investigation.

      There should also be a public inquiry previous to this Garda investigation. But the villians are being protected as we speak.

      Any right to silence answers and other questions should be a matter for the guards for later follow up in a proper garda inquiry.

      It would be very useful to compile as many questions such as yours and publish them even without any of the above! The more attention they get the better.

  10. Tim says:

    Folks, “Over Half your Nes is Spin”:

    http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/03/15/over-half-your-news-is-spin/

    … as if we didn’t know?

  11. cbweb says:

    @Malcolm

    re “I must assume that there are some competent people pulling the strings or the whole show would have collapsed at least a year ago.”

    Let me challenge you on two of your assumptions there both in my view part of the veil of propaganda put out by FF:

    1. ‘That the whole show would have collapsed a year ago’. Nope, if you’ve read the alternative proposals discussed in detail on this site, you would have read the economics of recovery, not collapse.

    Those who’ve proposed, for example, similar measures to those of the Nordic countries including Sweden, have a tried and trusted model of success, rather than failure.

    2. ‘That there are competent people pulling the strings’

    Nope, far, far from it. The people pulling the strings are grossly incompetent. What their NAMA proposal does is death by a thousand cuts. We don’t have immediate economic collapse, we have a slow deflationary spiral as the NAMA anchor drags our economy slowly under water.

    Interesting the European commission this morning have rapped incompetent Lenihan over the knuckles for not taking deeper cuts out of the economy.

    They are demanding that he commits to deeper cuts than the €3 billion proposed each for 2011 and 2012 and that he PUBLISH what these cuts will be now. We’ll have to watch that space. He’s trying to pull the wool over their eyes as well!

    You see FF have collapsed the economy with NAMA, the huge monster behemoth of wasteful and incompetent mess, anchor thrown to a drowning economy.

    You just have to wait a few years to see us sink beneath the waves. We are the victims of an alliance of big business and incompetent politicians who are pillaging the public purse as happened never before in this country.

    NAMA has a parallel with the transfer of private debt into public debt during the Menen years in Argentina leading to the economic collapse of Argentina 2002. What’s happening with NAMA is a swindle of the Irish taxpayer:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domingo_Cavallo

    “Though nothing new to the history of Argentine economy, he implemented financial policies that may have allowed Argentina’s main private enterprises to transfer their debts to the state, transforming their private debt into public obligations. In 1983, more than 200 firms (30 economic groups and 106 transnational enterprises) transferred a great part of their 17 billion dollar debt to the federal government, thanks to secured exchange rates on loan installments. There is no clear consensus on this matter, however, as Cavallo inherited this practice from Martinez de Hoz himself (whose chief interest, steelmaker Acindar, had unloaded US$700 million of its debts in this way) and indeed, most of this fraud took place both before and after his very brief turn at the Central Bank.[3] In either case, the mechanism turning private debt into liabilities of the state continued even after the advent of democracy under Raúl Alfonsín (1983–89) and into the economic crisis that surrounded the Peso’s last sharp devaluation in early 2002.”

    By the way, on top of the €3 + billion each haircut next year and the following year, there is the matter of the ongoing reparations, repayments, of the €54 billion NAMA fresh money we’re about to begin pouring into the black hole of NAMA.

    Our economy on the turn, whose codding who?

    • Malcolm McClure says:

      cbweb: I agree with much of what you write above.
      However if everything was all that bad, we’d have been in the knacker’s yard long ago. Ergo, somebody is making the right moves. i don’t think it’s anybody on the government front bench, so who is it?

      I see NAMA as a poisoned chalice full of bad debts, put on the table to placate the ECB. Everybody knows that there is no way that the Irish taxpayer can honour the resulting debts, but they can be expected to tighten their belts. That is what is happening.

      Nobody knows what the upshot of all this will be in 10 years time, but it ensures that there is enough in the kitty to pay the unemployed this week’s dole money, etc.

      • cbweb says:

        @Malcolm

        We are in the knacker’s yard.

        re “there is no way that the Irish taxpayer can honour the resulting debts”

        We do have to repay the debts.

        RE your view of NAMA :

        “Sherlock Holmes: Watson, I think you know me well enough to understand that I am by no means a nervous man, but it is stupidity rather than courage to refuse to recognize danger when it is close upon you.”

  12. tirnanog33 says:

    When you think about it, how can bankers possibly lose money-your money, when they take it in and pay two or three percent interest on savings: and then lend it out at rates varying from 15-25%!!

    • Tumbrel Cart says:

      Very Simple. Give it away with no regard for ever getting it back. That is what happened. They took in the wealth of two or three generations and give it out to their political friends, the property developers. When they had loaned out the Irish savings, their friends still ‘screamed out for more’. They then borrowed from other banks, the so called interbank market . This was short term borrowing -one month, three months, six months, some even overnight. They then loaned out this additional money to their friends. Then two things happened. The first of these was that their friends could not pay their loans back. But this was denied, fudged lied about etc. The shortfall was being made up with even more interbank borrowing. Then in the summer of 2008, the interbank market collapsed. The banks wanted their money back. But it wasn’t there to give back. It had been loaned out over 10, 15,20 years to their friends. They didn’t have it. It wasn’t coming back now, next year or any year. NAMA of course is based on the false presumption that these loans were in reality good loans and will come back in the very long term. This of course is absolute rubbish. The Athlone case of a loan for €31m now valued at €600,000 being the best example.
      Banking is simple. A bank in the first instance is a custodian of depositor’s wealth. This was the original banking model. Our corrupt Irish bankers and politicians thought they had the midas touch. Some were crooks, many were corrupt, most are still in place and all are making utter fools and paupers out of the ordinary Irish people.

  13. CitizenWhy says:

    My parents left Ireland after fighting in the War of Independence. They believed that with Collins gone the country would operate to corrupt both church and state. My relatives in Ireland have done very well economically but, not being FF, have shied completely away from politics. They have also been prudent and made solid and not grand investments (business, real estate, agriculture, London stock market) or own small farms while working outside and living nicely but modestly.

    The slow and prudent build-up of savings and sensible assets is the only protection for individuals. This is possible even for political outsiders.

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