March 14, 2010

Outsiders pay for insider greed

Posted in Banks · 237 comments ·

Yesterday, I visited my father’s grave in Shankill. He passed away this week last year. Listening to I’m Only Sleeping by the Beatles – a song that always reminds me of him and where he is now – I looked out over the cemetery, which is an elevated site.

It is a beautiful spot. To the west, you have the still-snowcapped Wicklow Mountains, and just behind you the Irish Sea crashes onto the beach.

The late afternoon sun was dipping between the Sugarloaf and the lead mines, and the place was quiet, empty and peaceful. This is the type of natural beauty my Dad loved, and the setting prompted lots of tongue tied aunties to tell me last year that he’d appreciate his resting place.

Other people appreciated this place too, it appears – but for very different reasons.

The geniuses at Davy Stockbrokers were taken by it at the height of the boom. They saw ‘‘potential uplift’’, as they might have said back then. So too did their private clients and the developer Joe O’Reilly – one of Anglo’s Golden Circle.

In fact, so taken were they that they paid €58 million for a huge site next to the cemetery. The site, Woodbrook, where the golf club used to be, lies beside the graveyard, just beyond the Protestant church.

In July 2006 this 51-acre site was bought for over €1 million euro per acre without full planning permission. According to a glowing article in the Sunday Times back then, the fully-developed site would be worth close to €1 billion when it was developed.

The Davy private client consortium was asked to put up what is called mezzanine finance- a kind of bridging loan for rich people – which plugs the gap between the developer’s equity, the bank’s loan and the purchase price. For this loan, the private clients were to be paid an astronomical 17 per cent per year.

Anyway, now it is all over, and Davy admitted last week that the investors might get 5c for every €1 they invested, if they are lucky. If I were one of these private clients, I’d be livid with Davy and the salespeople who put together this little deal.

I’d also be kicking myself as to how I thought it possible a deal could carry a 17 per cent interest rate – when bank rates were 3 per cent – and not be risky. Then again, when greed takes over, all logic goes out the window. Anyway, the house of cards has come tumbling down here in Shankill, as it has all over the country in other sites and deals.

However, for the average citizen – ordinary people like my father, who never got involved in all this carry-on – the sickening part of the Davy Stockbrokers publication last week was that we – not they – are going to pay for this greed, through Nama.

In a nauseating paragraph, Davy says in its report that ‘‘Nama is likely to be the only institution that will have the capacity to provide development finance to build out development projects and thereby provide some capacity for return’’.

There it is, in black and white. his toxic loan, which the promoters say now is worth 0.05 per cent of what it was originally, will be given to the taxpayer to fund. What sort of nonsense is this? This land should be sold now to whoever wants to buy it and the Davy private client T consortium, the loan and the developer should be allowed to suffer.

That’s not to say they can’t start again, but this Nama scam is of no value to Irish society, other than to confirm that the banks and the government are giving the two fingers to the rest of us. But it gets worse because, in order to keep Anglo, one of the main financiers of the property bubble open, lots of things have gone on behind our backs, but in our name.

Anglo needs cash, but the only bits of collateral it has are these worthless loans. The European Central Bank knows this stuff is worthless, and won’t lend Anglo money against this trash. But our own Central Bank will, using our money.

In the past year, the Irish Central Bank has lent €10 billion to Anglo, using an instrument that it would prefer you knew nothing about. This instrument, called the ‘‘master loan repurchase agreement’’, is a hangover from when we had our own currency. Evidence of its existence is buried deep in the Central Bank’s balance sheet under the ambiguous title ‘‘other assets’’.

The reason this is important is that it shows that, since Anglo was nationalised, it has gobbled up another €10 billion of our money. When Enda Kenny says there will be riots if Anglo receives another cent of public money, in a way he is behind the times. The money has already been given to Anglo, via this secretive facility.

Since last March, the Central Bank has lent Anglo €10 billion in return for so called collateral of €14.5 billion. But the only collateral Anglo has are worthless loans like the land for Woodbrook golf course in Shankill, which Davy Stockbrokers now estimates is worth 5 per cent of its 2006 purchase price.

If we were to apply the same discount to the Central Bank’s loan to Anglo, we would see that the Central Bank – acting in our name – has lent €10 billion in exchange for collateral that is worth just over €750million.SotheCentral Bank has probably already lost over €9 billion. The only way this will ever be recovered is if Nama succeeds in driving the price of this land in Shankill backup.

But who wants this? The very rich private clients of Davy Stockbrokers, for one, who are betting that Nama will bail themout. Who pays for this class rescue scheme? You do!

I left the grave yesterday, contemplating, among other things, what my father and his generation would make of this pathetic game, where the poor pay for the rich in order to legitimise the latter’s greed. What would they think of the insiders once again shafting the outsiders?

My father’s generation – born in the 1930s – built this country. They emigrated in the 1950s in huge numbers when the insiders who ran the place drove it into the ground with their isolationism. When the rest of the world boomed in the 1950s, Ireland – run by the grandparents of the politicians who run the place now – stagnated.

My father’s generation paid the high tax of the 1970s, only to see their children emigrate in the 1980s when the parents of this present government ran the place into the ground yet again.

And now, as that heroic 1930s and 1940s generation is passing away, they leave a country where their grandchildren will pay for the greed and the incompetence of the insiders for a third time. And the little under-the-counter strokes, like the Central Bank’s sweetheart deal with Anglo, continue on the basis that the insiders will give the bill to the outsiders yet again, and continue as if nothing happened.

  1. Malcolm McClure

    David: If all the people in those graves resurrected tomorrow, noted all the improvements in Dublin since they had died and asked what political party had done this — they would probably vote FF in the next election.

    • wills

      Surely it is the labours of regular joe bloggs that invent
      ‘ the improvements into reality’.

      • Malcolm McClure

        Ah yes, Wills, but the Undead wouldn’t have suffered the disillusionment and failed dreams that afflict the rest of us.

        • Ruairí

          But Malcolm, if a businessperson or accountant or economist was resuurected surely they’d say well I like your smoke and mirrors a lot fancier than the smoke and mirrors in my day!………..But can I see your books please?
          The ‘improvements’ are a facade if we have spent the last 10 years gilding lilies and adornign the empty vessel that is our ‘smart economy’ with pretty houses and private hospital sites (with uplift) beside ‘quieter’ carriageways because Joe average can’t put a tenner in his shiny car.

          • Malcolm McClure

            Ruairi: Our Lord missed a great opportunity by not holding the Resurrection at the millenium.
            Bertie would have held a ‘welcome back’ rally in Croke Park for the Undead, announcing that he had made JC Minister of Finance, who would put them all back on the aul’ pension.
            If it happened tomorrow, Cowen would spend sleepless nights wondering how to tax them.

        • liam

          Zombie apocalypse would be a step forward…

    • The Eye

      Those “Improvements” have nothing to do with F.F and everything to do with cheap money.

  2. Now that NAMA is going ahead, and whether it is the Betamax or VHS solution to the banking crisis, surely the emphasis should now be on how it is implemented. Particularly it is worrying that so many high profile assets have dropped so much in value (I think the Shankill site is now worth 5% of its original value of €50k an acre if the reports are to be believed). However there will be at least 5 layers of valuation of every NAMA asset (by the banks, NAMA valuers, the NAMA audit co-ordinator, E&Y and an EU investment bank tbc and possibly by Brian Lenihan’s independent reviewer. In those circumstances we should of course remain concerned but assuming these valuers keep their professional indemnity up to date we must have some degree of confidence that they can do their job. Of more concern to me is that there is little citizen oversight – the government will review the project in 2012, there is no select committee with members of the Opposition, the first tranche is €16bn or 1/5th of the total, there is no provision for providing information to the public and it remains to be seen what will be provided to the Oireachtas each quarter and it now seems that SF is becoming the party of financial probity as it was their question that revealed the 70pc increase in the NAMA chairman’s salary.

    • s1lverbullet

      I think we are all missing the point. David is highlighting what we all as citizens already know but seem too brush over too quickly. Nama is a SCAM, so what the hell are we going to do about it. Forget about waffling on in response to another good article!. David, you have the nous, the connections, and the visibility. ORGANISE A DEMONSTATION and get these charlatans out. You can be the catalyst. I think you will be very surpsised at the reaction. We as a people can stop this Nama fraud!!

    • wills

      Also, due to NAMA been an SPV the data is rendered beyond the reach of public scrutiny.

  3. My Father will be gone ten years this September and I don’t have a song really that reminds me of him but REM , Everybody hurts comes to mind
    He was of the same generation but he knew how Ireland worked , when I was eighteen he then advised me to join F.F. as ‘they’ would look after me ,we were a F.F. family and related to the Lenihan’s through marriage but with the generation gap I was rebelling and after only one or two trips to the local cumanna branch I even then saw the racket.
    Twenty years on while we have a few nice roads ( 90% funded by European taxpayers) the reality of jobs for the boys has us now in the economic mess we are in.
    Our Political establishment are not concerned about un employment or emigration as ‘they’ are protected with State jobs and pensions and ‘they’ also know what we are now like as a race. The majority of us jumped on the Celtic tiger merry go round where you could get cheap money to buy the big German car , take the foreign holidays buy a place there too, and drink loads of pints and shorts in the new shiny pubs that had opened up , sure they were more expensive than the bars of Spain and USA but sure weren’t we the best country in Europe that Everybody was envious of , weren’t we the Great Irish ! the ones who knew how to party and have a good time !.
    Our National Media hyped it all up and where else in the world could a block layer get a loan from their bank to buy a few acres to throw up a few shoe boxes that you could then make such profit on, Ireland was a great place to be for sure.
    Now that the cogs have fallen off the merry go round , the spin machine has another angle , the green shoots , we are where we are , the international lenders are happy with our budget cuts and of course the big one , ‘moving forward’……
    It sickens me the gullibility of the majority here how we don’t seem to really care what is now happening , what this country is becoming and where it is now going.
    Look at the Greeks they are on the streets protesting to the ordinary people now having to pay for the greed of the elite ,the Thai people are also doing the same now in Bangkok, yet US Irish will be putting on our Green jersey’s and getting drunk this Wednesday to ‘Celebrate’ been Orish . ….
    Maybe the Real Irish are all now gone or Dead ,…. I hope they rest in Peace . As Modern Ireland today is rotten to the very core….. I hope our deceased are in a better place for sure .

    • Ruairí

      +1 Brendan, +1. As a kid brainwashed into FF and free Haughey toothbrushes and Charlies Song from the Morrisseys (still have the 7″ inch) and sticking wanted leaflets in doors (he was eventually caught but the more vicious members of the gang B Ahern and B Cowen are still on the run), I know where you’re coming from. Resisted the ‘pull’ myself. An abomination. There wouldn’t be a point to the VEC if there was no FF. Or the HSE. or the councils. What are there duties anyway? Don’t think they know. If anyone knows what an X-ray is, please contact the Civil Defence asap. There is a national emergency in Tallaght………nasty bloody X rays.

    • Freethinker123

      I whole hearteningly agree Brendan, Im currently in Australia and I’ve been saying on here recent its not as fantastic as its cracked up to be, but different and ‘better’ at the mo compared to back home,say.I despise the whole ‘Oirish’ attitude particularly with Paddys day comin up,sure the country needs to keep its spirits up in the man on the street sort of way,but the events of the last number of months will remain deep and are far from over. We’ve nothing to be proud of at the moment and if anything people in general should and most likely will eat humble pie for the next while and get some spiritual grounding and not inthe religious hug the alter railings sort of old fashioned way. I was in leaving tec and going into college,the only one of my siblings to go,coming from finglas and all through the ‘boom’ watched my father still work his government day job and be a part time musician at night making enough to put bread on the table and pay the bills. After finishng with college I lived in Amsterdam for a year and helped give me the outsider perspective and started to wake up to the utter nonsense that has been allowed to carry on. I especially wanted to educate myself on what got us to this point. A great book that helped was called ‘Preventing the Future,Why Ireland was poor for so long’ can’t for the life of me remember the author,a trinity college professor. Iwas amazed at the mentality and institutional corruption that held a grip for all these years..and for such a small country too!
      The country should celebrate St.PATRICKS Day but with a solemn reminder and a look of shame and detest towards our “Leaders” in the Dail if anything a mentality should sweep the after crowd and march in green up to Merrion square just like whats happening in Bangkok.
      Though in saying that I marched with the union members last November before coming here, and I know those Union leaders are on big bucks,but atleast it was something,I still found the whole issue petty..this small minded mentality of squabble between what they had to say and those jokers in power while the joe soap gets caught in the middle nad I’m more than convinced RTE are the Governments little biased propaganda machine by the way they handled that march and the national strike day not long after.
      Modern Ireland is rotten to the core!!
      humble pie anyone??

      • Bamboo

        Well said freethinker123.

      • coldblow

        I had a look at this book (Tom Garvin) a couple of years ago but ended up skimming through much of it. It struck me as focussed far more on the importance of ideas than economics to explain Irish history. I have grown increasingly ‘economic determinist’ over the last few years. Besides, the book seemed too fixated on the mindset of the War of Indep. revolutionaries and also on the conservatism of the Church. (Joe Lee however recognized that the latter was in some key areas one of the very few exponents of the ‘peformance’ ethos (as opposed to the ‘possession’ (rent seeking) ethos that has always dogged us and still does) in Ireland).

        Here’s a good review by Anthony Coughlan:

        It reminds me a bit of the piece by Ivana Bacik which Furrlylugs posted here, twice I think. (I finally ended up reading it all the way through just for a laugh – so earnest, so daft!)

        There’s a good bit in Coughlan’s review about the FG (Cumann na nGael) decision to peg to Sterling in the 20s and the negative effects this had economically. Insiders vs outsiders again. He notes that the only really good period of growth occurred following the devaluation in 1993 – which seems to support David’s approach.

  4. [...] Prominent NAMA arch-critic David McWilliams today decries the greed of those who invested in the sc… [...]

  5. lff12

    David, good, and worrying article.

    I saw an almost identical situation take place around 5 years ago regarding a similar piece of land in Castleredmond in Midleton – “Dublin prices” as they said at the time. Meanwhile a small development of very nice 4 bedroomed houses popped up opposite where I live. Again, “Dublin prices.” They disappeared, no cars ever appeared and slowly, 6 months later, the sequence of “for sale” signs appeared at prices so obscene I think they never sold even then, and are probably still for sale now, unless there was some Gom stupid enough to buy a 4 bed house in East Cork for 475k.

    You point out that the current net loss on the investment is 95%. Didn’t these people ever hear of net present value? In order to recuperate losses on merely the purchase price a gap of 950k per acre would be needed. I cannot see that every occuring except via some rather fraudulent accounting. Or is this what NAMA is? Basically like a dodgy pension scheme in disguise, except for NAMA’s wealthy sub-clients?

  6. Constantin re Anglo and on MLRepo’s:


    I appreciate your personal note, very much so, and it is important to remember that generation of people who truly built Ireland. I lived in Wicklow some years, and my partner was caring for a elderly Lady with great spirits. She cared for her more than 12 years, every single day. She was 98 when she passed, and we were already living in Donegal. I remember sitting with her in her little house in Kilcoole, listening to her.

    She was blind, was equipped with an artificial hip and could not really walk anymore, she got the shingles at the age of 90, broke a wrist at the age of 94, and still, every time I meet her I was amazed and deeply humbled by her stamina and mental strength. Of course her heart was strong and she had what some call a deep rooted faith. This combination got her going undoubtedly, but there was more.

    This woman was on the ball. She new everything that was going on in irish politics, local or national, she had a good grasp of what is going on in the rest of the world, and most of all, she expressed her opinion on these things. She could not read or watch television anymore, so her source of information was the radio and talking to people.

    I remember the first time I meet her, I was kinda shocked to be honest. A very thin, well, extremely thin, skin and bones person is a vivid memory of her physical appearance.Knowing she is fond of animals, I reluctantly brought my 2 years old pitchblack longhair german shepherd with me. Reluctantly because a high energy dog and full of beans.

    I was deeply touched to see how careful, nearly in slow motion, he approached her, how very calm he was with her, great senses these animals have in deed. Ever since she spoke of him and asked how he was every time, it was a highlight in her life to have made contact with him.

    This woman was very opinionated, and she had no good to say about the Bertie clan and the way they were running this country, on the contrary.

    This woman was expressing informed opinions, eager to know more about it, always curious, always asking intelligent questions, what can I say, she stood with both feet in the middle of life.

    She had a great sense of humor, and she called a spade a spade, without cussing or any foul language.

    Under the current regime, her personal care hours would have been halved, her incontinence gear slashed a third (NO JOKE!), oh well, and in the next budget they would have taxed her retirement money, and well, make no mistakes, it was not easy before all this takes place. You do not want to know how long it took and what burning hoops we had to jump through to make sure the “health” service equips her with a proper wheel chair.

    Lady Ingram has seen Ireland before cars where on this Island, so did Huey my 96 years old Neighbor who still cut his own turf until the age of 91.

    I wish some of the spirit of these great people could be passed on to the younger generation, some of the pride and relentless humor, some of the fighting spirit these people had in deed.

    We owe them and their efforts and we owed it to the unborn Irish generations, we are responsible for allowing to let happen what takes place in this country today ….we would do well remembering….

    I guess when we finally understand that it is not the Lenihan’s and Cowen’s of this Island but the people who let them do what they do, with their silence, then we might have made the first step towards change.

    It is time to speak up and voice opinions. This is not the time for silence, hoping it is a bad dream and will go away with the first morning light, yes it is a nightmare, but this is for real.

    It is time to remember the spirit of the ancestors who built this Island for us to have a better life, and not for some crooks to enslave our children.

    Thanks David! Great article.

    • Ruairí

      +1 Lauhingbear.

      “I guess when we finally understand that it is not the Lenihan’s and Cowen’s of this Island but the people who let them do what they do, with their silence, then we might have made the first step towards change.”

      That is hitting the nail on the head. WE give away our SOCIAL POWER every day! We give the Garda his authority. We give the TD his position. We are the sovereign authority in this land. Not the EU, not the TDs, not the Garda. By losing respect for ourselves, we have also lost respect for them. By losing respect for us they have also lost our respect. It is an honour to be a Garda, a TD, a judge. THis honour is being taken too lightly by many (not all Tim!!) of our civil servants. In order to be loved, one must be lovable (that’s within our remit). So saith the Dalai Lama, and he’s usually more right than wrong, unlike Cardinal “Sin” Brady. In order to be respected, we must be……….?………..RESPECTABLE! Yes that’s it. i.e. Minister Lenihan, Comrade Cowen, do your solemn duty by the people (all of them).

      My granny is 96. She was born under British rule. I have to admit that she gets great care from the state but ……..isn’t she DUE it? She and her generation BUILT this country and said goodbye to their kids, nephews, nieces etc forever. I do know of many saddening cutback stories however. realcases of need. Then we hear the mantra ‘Sure jaysus boss, there’s no money’. That’s what the grassroots FF eunuchs will tell you!! And many of the local FG and Labour guys too. As, on the ground locally, they’re all the same. Live horse, get grass. Even the ‘opposition’ need their handy job handouts from FF in order to stay schtum on bad deeds.

      This government has an empathy deficit that is not curable. The only cure for sociopaths is not printable on David’s fine blog………..

    • Freethinker123

      here here!

    • coldblow

      Can’t see someone called Lady Ingram being much of a Bertie fan. More FG/ Unionist perhaps?

      I wouldn’t be quite so sure about the spirit of our ancestors either. A friend from one Donegal town once told me about an American who bought land in the surrounding hills and who ended up running screaming from the place. Look at Kavanagh’s Tarry Flynn, stitched up ‘like a kipper’ by his scheming neighbours.

      My own mother (turns 94 in 3 weeks time, getting a bit tired now – the missus had to give a hand with last year’s Christmas dinner LOL!) found herself looking after the family shop, one of those tiny country shops you’d see once upon a time, and on more than one occasion she had to forge letters from the local solicitor to get an account settled. This is what Ireland was like then: landowners (great and small), shopkeepers, religious and professionals – would that qualify it as the most middle class country in the world I wonder? (By the way there was one bike in the village, and the owner wasn’t lending it…)

  7. G

    David – My sympathies on the passing of your father.

    We have to fight harder for a 2nd Republic.

    “…………..Meanwhile, claims that the new financial regulator has been engaged in a sharp exchange of words with some members of the Dail and Seanad have not been denied by the regulator. Brian Lucey, associate professor of Finance at Trinity College, said he understands the financial regulator was heavily rebuffed by some of the Dail and Seanad when he enquired about loans they had with the banks that were being transferred to NAMA in the months ahead.

    Prof. Lucey said the basis of his allegation came from within the Oireachtas “I got this from a Dail source”, he told the Irish Examiner.

    The public is entitled to know if TDs or Senators have loans or mortgages that are part of the funds being transferred across to NAMA, he said. The first trenche of loans, totalling €17 billion is due to be transferred by the end of the month.

    Reports of the standoff with regulator Matthew Enderfield come days after he gave his first public speech. He promised an intrusive approcah to regulation and enforcement at systemically important banks.

    “Prof. Lucey told RTE it was “always going to be the case in a small country that there are political figures involved in banking”.

    His information was some TDs and Senators reacted negatively to a line of enquiry being pursued with the members of the committee in the Oireachtas.”

    ~ Irish Examiner, p. 18, 13/03/2010


    Are some members of the Dail insolvent/ severly indebt edand if so, has there been a potential conflict of interest?

    How have those proven to be insolvent been directly involved in legislating in the Dail on bills related to the financial services industry (voting record)?

    Should the Auditor General with the financial regulator do an audit of Dail members, especially those on finance or related committees?

    • Dilly

      Watch as this story is swept under the carpet. The nation must be made aware, that these guys are upto their necks in it.

    • Philip

      Crunch time is coming. Someone must have been asleep at the wheel in Cowen;s gang when they brought in Mr Enderfield. Will he last the term I wonder….but now if they try and mess with him, they endanger any credibility left with the markets.

      As I see it, there is another piece of bother to contend with. Our PS Unions must be causing more than the usual number of nightmares. They too can wreck havoc wth the markets. If Brian gives in we will be like a Greece. But for officianiados of “Yes Minister”, the Mr Humpries are running the show with their unaffected pay checks. And if they do not get what they want, they will collapse the government…so the new crunch will be how well will the Union Bosses and the upper echelons of the PS keep their rank n file in check.

      Add to this a serious pissed off Catholic Hierarchy who I am sure have their own weapons to bear if the media is not called off.

      I think the lads are running out of runway. This cannot hold for much longer.

      Sorry if this is all slightly off topic. But I think this nonsense is all about TDs and their dire need to have their loans NAMAized.

      I live in hope.

      • @G
        +1 and KUDOS to Brian Lucey!

      • G

        Think you nailed it, Ireland’s remaining credibility is at stake, the great market is watching (as are others), if the regulator is shut down then all will know what they suspect, that the government is not serious on reform or regulation and they won’t come here to do business, not with the tarnished brand and a host of other places competing for the business.

        If he does his job, like he is doing, FF is in trouble, if they shut him out, FF is in trouble, either way it is another factor in the ever growing equation of their demise.

        Its a question of when, not if, more stuff on the way………………you can’t stay in power that long and not run up some serious s**t.

        Cullen sensed the changing winds and got out fast. There are others looking at the numbers and making their minds up.

        As one FF man but it to me a while back: “I didn’t sign up for this, it’s not the FF party which stood for true republican values”.

        The current bunch are getting burned by the system they were associated with, the fact they are also inept hastens the inevitable end.

  8. Incident

    Moyvalley Golf, Hotel and Country Club’s demise is one of thousands of developments born out of the Greedy Tiger era.

    The only solace to be had for Joe Bloggs with regard to this failed venture is that its original members paid in €100k each for “exclusive” membership back in late 2006 and early 2007. The role call is facinating and yes it is nearly all of the key players that we read about today. The same people now have exclusive membership of the NAMA Club.

    Now as you approach Moyvalley on the M4 or N4, each lamp post is sporting an advertisement for immediate membership of the club at €38 per week on a direct debit basis!

    All such monuments to the Greedy Tiger should be used to educate our youth of the outrageous crimes perpetrated by the insiders in their pursuit of profit at the expense of our Nation.

    • Ruairí

      And word is the beautiful New Forest ( in Tyrellspass also fell along with Moyvalley. The non-golf course part at least (Strangely planning for accommodation onsite was refused about 2-3 years ago and in the last 3 months, a !!HOTEL!! has been sanctioned in Kilbeggan. What scions of planning dem FF bise are……..)

      David, I think its time for you to re-visit your golf club index…… Ah, Ireland’s not the place I remember in halcyon 2005…..

  9. MK1

    Hi David,

    Yes, that ‘project’ in Shankhill which is now 95% down is an example of the ‘irrantional exhuberance’ that was our credit-fuelled property bubble.

    > we — not they — are going to pay for this greed, through Nama.

    Yes, that’s what NAMA is. However, where are the outsiders protesting outside the Dail and where are the opposition TD’s on hunger-strike protesting that NAMA should not go ahead???? How come our Bastille is not being stormed?

    Enter the quirkey world of how the Irish vote. The so-called outsiders WANT to be insiders. They do not want to change the system, they want to be a cute-hoor. They reward incompetence and greed and underhandedness.

    Evidence is rampant. Cooper-Flynn, voted back in. Lowry, voted back in. Even FF voted back in in 2007.

    We get what we vote for, and like it or not, people in Ireland whether through ignorance or otherwise voted FF/PD and have seen this country sink close to the abyss and are allowing the taxpayers now to foot the bill.

    Would all those FF/PD voters who voted FF/PD since 1997 please take a look in the mirror and give out to yourself for being a gombeen!


    • Dilly


      I used to point this out to people about fifteen years ago, and I would get shouted down for speaking ill of our great voters. I also know plenty of people who are backing the same gombeens, hoping for a magically recovery, so they will be on the pigs back for being loyal.

    • Tim

      MK1, you make a very reasonable point, but our PR electoral system is not quite so straight-forward as your post suggests.

      FG could have formed a government in 2007, but refused to coalesce with SF.

      It is possible to state that our current govt could have been FG, LAB, SF + others and that is what the Irish electorate voted for – they had the majority vote from the electorate, after all.

      What would people have said about this “could-have-been” govt.? Well, I am sure that many would have said, after the crash, “That’s what you get, for going into coalition with crack-pot SF economic policies!” (though SF had nothing to do with it, of course).

      Interestingly, all parties in Dáil Éireann criticised Ian Paisley for his refusals (until his ultimate capitulation) to work with SF in the Northern Assembly, yet many still refuse to do the same, here.

      So, do we blame the electorate for the govt., or do we blame the opposition parties for not being able to exercise the expressed will of the electorate, which actually voted for a majority of non-FF TDs?

      • Tim as always enjoy your postings and links , but yet again after reading through this deceleration ‘They’ still don’t tell the truth , the number of TD’s who don’t have shares is amazing and the numbers who are lying about what they own regarding property , but I know what answer I will get …the House is My Wife’s ! which gets me just like Seanie Fitzpatrick owns no property his wife owns it !!, But you have to take your hats off to these clever Irish Women !!

    • chinaexpat

      The project at Shankill is not 95% down. The land was purchased for €160 million and not €58 million . AIB and First Active provided the majority of the capital with private investors and Castlethorn providing the rest. It is only the private investors portion which iys 95% down. The land itself is obviously worth significantly less than paid for but the drop in value isn’t anywhere near the 95% mark.

      • paulcmathews


        Well said, I noticed the same also. Davy are pricing the mezz at €0.05 down from €1.00. Unsecured mezz normally commands a high coupon – and that’s not just Irish property deals.

        If Woodbrook bank loans are going into NAMA, say at 50%, then we might be looking at an LTV of 35-40% of original peak value. The mezz guys are toast, but that’s their problem, not NAMAs. So will David be around in 10-20 years time when these loans can be sold for a profit?

        It seems a little learning is a dangerous thing, and pretty much all commentators, columnists and writers are guilty of such lazy journalism.

        I’ve unsubscribed from David’s blog this morning because it’s just repetitious tabloid economics.

        • wills

          Hang on there, this land and this Ponzi price paid out is been paid for by us the taxpayers.

          So, before you quibble over audited numbers be wise and consider the it a land racket POnzi scam.

  10. Folks,

    do you remember the two shoes incident?

    Here is to hoping that may be someone is throwing some sheep droppings at Cowen when he presents the shamrock .

  11. COW & GATE

    In Time History will record a New Revelation of Sovereign Fraud never before declared to the Public and the Citizens will rise to fight for Justice.

    David said :

    ‘In the past year, the Irish Central Bank has lent €10 billion to Anglo, using an instrument that it would prefer you knew nothing about. This instrument, called the ‘‘master loan repurchase agreement’’, is a hangover from when we had our own currency. Evidence of its existence is buried deep in the Central Bank’s balance sheet under the ambiguous title ‘‘other assets’’.

    • Ruairí

      “Now kiddies don’t forget to take your Cowengate formula! Just mix it up in a little hot water and let it down the hatch!!”

      We want confident chiselers so we do bosco…….

  12. Bamboo

    We should really question first whether €58 million was actually paid for that site. Surely if you want to develop something like that and expect to fetch close €1 billion for it, one would simply hike up the initial purchase site. Is there anyway one could find out the real price first of all?

    Where does this €58 million figure come from? And all the other sites in Dublin sold for this type of money? How does anyone know?

    The problem is that if anyone is naive enough to believe these figures then he/she enjoys in believing it. Anyone will enjoy the fact that there surrounding area is worth so much and the grapevine will mostlikely add a few zeros to that price as well. You may say that is all in the public domain or you may have found evidence. Tell me how you can back that price of €58 million.

    I can’t even find out the real price of a property around the corner from me let alone a ” €58 million” site. The fact is that I don’t know and I’ll never find out.

    Just think of it.
    If I want to develop a piece of land around the corner from me, the first (logical) step I do is make it a high profile sale of it. I go to my local paper and tell them how much I paid for it. Doesn’t matter what figure you give to the media, as long as it is a vague figure, preferably a good bit higher than any fool could ever contemplate. The media would then do its own practices and keep at it. Meanwhile you add all bit of pieces to that piece of land, swimming pool, cinema, hotel (for some reason, if you build a hotel on it, it looks even better), high profile shops, etc, etc. I then go to my local 3D artist and get him/her to make some cool looking images, go to my little nephew who can make cool looking web sites. Once I’ve done all this work, the general public is warming up to these prices and can’t wait to see the finish product. If I see that the public is wondering what is happening to that land because it hasn’t been touched and becoming impatient/suspicious then all I have to do is hire some serious men in High VIz jackets to do all sort of fancy surveying work. Also the neighboring area is gearing up to make the best of this high profile project and are selling or buying like mad. Meanwhile, actually nothing is done to this project except the cool looking images and website. However, I’ve got the public where I want them to be and only then I can start the project.

  13. wills


    Stirring article.


    A visitation from the ghost of your father infused article reads like to me David.

    Is it the first visit, the second or the third visit.

    Your dads generation are been murdered through the ‘improvements ‘ they built.

    These improvements are been put to use, to pillage and plunder the real wealth of Ireland, in what now looks like, to a degree of swag bagging beyond one wildest imagination. I refer here to the arrangement the ‘insiders’ have managed to swindle outta the ECB to the kerching total amount of 55 billion in total cash.

    We thought the Ponzi property bubble champagne pyramid delivered swag bag, we have seen nothing yet from what i can gather observing the NAMA scam underway.

    Do we keep what is going on a secret, as hamlet dithers on the truth, or, do those who are able, blow the whistle so goddamned loud the pilferers cannot escape the truth of their actions.

    • wills

      The legacy of their hard labours and efforts in building up a modern economy infrastructure is been spat in its face.

  14. Ruairí


    I had a long post written but the Inspiron is in Laptop-ICU these days…..

    Point is, does NAMA give any exemptions to the current / future owners vis a vis their duties to the local authority under the following area of legislation: -

    The eagle-eyed among you may recall reading about the fate of a property in athlone that was part-owned by pt McDonagh of supermacs fame. Being derelict and dog-ugly for quite a long time, and said Mr McDonagh being the recipient of numerous letters / notices the building was summarily seized by the local authority.

    Could this happen to many of the dog ugly projects with ‘uplift’ potential? Could the optimism of uplift be enforced or indeed the pragmatism of ‘downcast’ via the modus operandi of JCB & friends?

    Quoting from Citizens Info: -

    “Your local authority has to keep registers of all derelict sites and dangerous structures in its area. They contain the location of the property, the name and address of the owner and details of any action the local authority may have taken about these sites. If the property is owned or occupied by a local authority, the register must contain details of what it is being used for and what the local authority intends to do with it.

    If District Court Orders Under Section 8 of the Local Government Sanitary Services Act 1964 concerning dangerous structures are not entered into the Register of Orders within 10 days after the order was made, they are no longer valid. Declaring a structure dangerous can leave the local authority open to the possibility of litigation if any injury or damage results from a structure that is known by the authority to be dangerous and has been registered as such. Even if the local authority does not own the dangerous structure, it could be liable for failing to ensure that it is made safe.

    The Derelict Sites Register must give details of the current market value of the every site it contains. This valuation is done by the local authority, which can authorise any qualified person to act on its behalf. Any valuation approved by the local authority must reflect the value of the land if it were sold in the open market. Details of the valuation are entered into the register and a notice is served on the owner of the derelict site in question. Owners have to right to appeal the valuation. All appeals must be made to the Valuation Tribunal within 28 days of the owner receiving the notice. Appeal forms are available from your local authority.”

    My my. I wonder how those valuations might vary from NAMA’s?

    I wonder are there any nice sites out there right now that a local authority tthat had the right bunch of councillors might be eying up, vulture like, almost developer-like in their lust for land? !!

    Example 1 of councillors who just might strike a blow for their voters: -


    A Monaghan town council that voted to to voice its deliberated opposition to NAMA. Name doesn’t come to me. Me aul buddy Google’s too busy with China to give me a dig out too…

    ps Paul Div, you are in sligo, yes? Might be worth spreading this link around a bit?
    “It was an interesting test for the Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Fein members on the council. Officially the three parties are against NAMA and nobody from their ranks supported Councillor Bree’s proposal. Not a peep!

    Just sit there lads and lassies and collect your council salary and expenses. Keep your heads down. Don’t vote for anything or against anything. Turn up at the odd official engagement trying to look business like and get your photo taken. Pretend your’re doing something.

    Where is the leadership? where is the courage? where is the willingness to be a bit different and take a bit of risk?”

    Interestingly, ‘cards on the table’ time for Patrick Honohan on 30/08/2009. I wonder will he enforece this scenario now?? “Properly set up and functioning well, with transparency and sound governance, a Nama-type operation could be a key ingredient in the challenging task of getting the banking system back on its feet and re-establishing its collective nerve to provide the lending and other financial services needed to support the economic recovery. But it is vitally important to protect the taxpayer against the risk that Nama might unintentionally overpay for the assets it acquires from the participating banks. I have suggested a two-part payment scheme that could go a long way towards providing that protection. In my scheme, the banks would get bonds only for what can be confidently expected as recoverable on the loans; in addition, bank shareholders would be given an equity stake in Nama’s future recoveries. Some such scheme, with the state also taking an increased percentage equity stake in the banks in accordance with capital injected, would offer better risk-sharing between taxpayers and the banks’ current shareholders.”

    Brian Lucey’s pushing back against Alan Ahearne’s calling the use of court judgements as deluded, now seems ENTIRELY correct in the light of the recent ‘Athlone’ and Naas judgements of Justice Peter kelly in the Commercial Court.
    “One of the problems with Nama is that we are all, to some extent, working in the dark. Nama is designed to undertake the most important task of any government entity, short perhaps of the establishment of the ESB. Yet opacity reigns.

    In that regard, we [who oppose Nama] are forced to rely, for estimates of likely losses, on previous research, on court judgements, on bank statements and so forth. While this approach has been described as “deluded” by Dr Alan Ahearne, it indicates that falls from a peak of 60% and more are not uncommon. Combine this with a strong suspicion that loan-to-value limits of 75% were rare in commercial property, with much “equity” being in the form of guarantees on other properties and loans taken elsewhere, and we can begin to triangulate the “real” value of the assets that underlie the Nama loans.

    Paying much in excess of €30bn for these loans would represent a massive transfer of wealth from public to private purses.”

    • Ruairí

      And here is further discussion on a similar vein from Indymedia in 2004.
      “The City Council has the power to seize these properties and do a compulsory purchase order on them, or fine the owners 3% annually of the market value under the Derelict Sites Act, but this power is exercised on only a handful of properties throughout the entire city centre.”

  15. Tim

    Folks, Ratio of male to female unemployment growth across the world from Economix blog – Denmark is striking.
    (via Liam Delaney, UCD)

  16. Ruairí

    Socialism on course to win out in France 2012. Who knows what will happen in Ireland? The pretend socialist party simply ran a bad electoral strategy in the last beauty contest, as Noel Dempsey knowingly chuckled on tv interviews apres-match. Perhaps the smaller parties will field as many candidates as they can this time around? And rely on the power of online fundraising and social media to sink their teeth into the establishment’s lunch.

    But as MK1 points out, we have a plethora of gombeení that voted for the gombeens we currently have. Don’t rely on that to change too much. They want the return of the KIng (Bertie, not Elvis…) and we want the Return of the Jedi (Michael Collins’ 12 apostles hit-squad, not the Financial Regulator & Dan Boyle)

  17. G

    Expect the Kafka knock at the door……………………

    My definition of hell would be to be on my way only to meet a ‘merry’ Ryan Tubridy at the gate in one of his Late Late suits telling me what a great show was ahead & to stay tuned………….

  18. paddythepig

    I hope the bond vigilantes financing our deficit start to get tough on Cowen again ; there is still far too much waste in Irish Government spending.


    • Tim

      paddythepig, Yes, Paddy; most of the waste caused by Harney. See the figures on waste and what department causes it?

      Have you finally seen the children waiting for operations at Crumlin?

      Will you ask me, again, “What do children have to do with the debate, Tim?”

      Or, have you opened your eyes to what she has done and insists upon continuing to do? What all of the private-sector, property-cheer-leaders continue to do?

      All of that “profits-up-wages-down” brigade, that have driven this economy into a downward spiral by cutting the wages of the very people who are required to spend (with a 6X -fold-benefit to the private-sector)?

      Do you see, yet, the private-sector lies?

      • paddythepig


        You posted up a weblink which is now the subject of a libel action. This link contained comments by Nell McCafferty which labelled Mary Harney an alcoholic, and added further context relating to the death of her mother. This is beyond the bounds of decency in my opinion. I hope you don’t get David sued for posting this, without any condemnation of the contents (internet blogs are not beyond legal sanction these days by the way).

        You have failed to condemn this interview. Rather, you are expressing mere ‘surprise’ about it, while at the same time, criticising Harney’s ministerial performance, as well as labelling her the Irish ‘Thatcher’. If you have such criticisms, by all means state them, and be exact please about what you would do as an alternative to make things better. Also, tell us why you couldn’t make your case on the Health Service in isolation, without first forwarding on these comments.

        You also incorrectly claimed I had no kids, and said that myself and Colin_in_exile would understand ‘if we had children’. Bizarre. You do not speak for all parents, and parents do not have greater understanding or rights to comments on any topic, over and above someone who is not a parent.


        • Tim

          Again, misinterpreting and misrepresenting what I have written. Ridiculous.

          Will you address my point about the children on waiting-lists at Crumlin hospital, or not, and state who you believe is responsible for healthcare, if not the Minister for health?

          • paddythepig

            Sorry Tim, I won’t be engaging with you any more on this topic. You are not following any logical line of argument.


          • Tim

            Paddy, other readers can decide that for themselves.


          • G

            What is far more serious that McCafferty’s interview (which is a distraction), is those patients who receive a sub-standard service in the Health System, those forced to wait for treatment on trollys – this and worse is going on and all during her tenure in office.

            A person’s private life is only relevant if it adversely impacts on the job they are paid to do (I am not saying this is the case with MH), I am just making a more general point, it applies to all of us.

            I do think the Minister should resign over the latest scandal in Tallaght, there needs to be accountability at some stage, it is something she should have dealt with. Instead of pushing privatised health care she should have been doing her job.

  19. tony_murphy

    Thanks David yet again for spelling out the corruption which is eating away at every Irish person.

    My blood pressure went through the roof on reading it

    Maybe if I went around with my brain swimming in Alcohol I wouldn’t be so angry.

    In 1984, George Orwell had them drinking Gin. In a “Brave New World” it was Soma. In Ireland it’s Guinness.

    Open the pubs for them on Good Friday and that’ll keep the majority of the people happy

    I’m reading “The richest man in babylon”, thanks to Ruairí. It’s obvious the davy clients never read even the 1st chapter

    • Ruairí

      Thanks Tony, very much appreciated.

      It really is as simple as getting those few key principles into the hands of our children and teens. Then maybe THEY will resist the dopey bank managers when they pay get the come-on and borrow letters in a decade or so post NAMA.

    • Thanks for the link G.

      Noam is a true gem! Just by listening closely to his deep and well founded knowledge, one senses that it has turned into wisdom since quite some time.

      You know what struck me? The reaction of the audience.

      Here is a man who does not hesitate to make a statement in public that he did not pay taxes for years, and he earned spontaneous applause.

      I remember back in the 80s there was a case of a german mathematics teacher that meticulously calculated the % of his taxes that were spent on military expenditures, and he started to deduct this from his payments, stating that it is against his deepest beliefs to support any government dealing in weapons. I am not sure anymore how it ended, I think he was taken to court and went to jail for as few months.

      I found his action truly remarkable and consequent. Sadly he was very much on his own.

      The head lines of german economy performance being best in class at the moment may also be put into a different light when one reads the latest SIPRI Report. According to the Stockholm international Peace Research Institute, Germany more than doubled military exports in the past five years alone.

      Top of the line were submarines and tanks. Between 2000 and 2004, according to DIE ZEIT, military exports accounted for 6% with Turkey the biggest purchaser. now it is over 11% already, which positions Germany to the number 3 in weapons exporting countries behind USA and UK.

      The Lisbon treaty comes into play as well as the NATO expansion. SIPRI data shows that in the past 5 years alone the global weapons export increased to 22%. Interesting side note, Greece was one of the Top five buyers in the past five years.

      • G

        You see, these countries have a vested industrial interest in keeping conflict going, so big pronouncements and political speeches about peace and freedom mean jack-s**t when you are exporting guns and arms by the ton. It is quite despicable, cynical and highly duplicitous. They would give Machiavelli a run for his money.

        Thanks for the insights on Germany.

        People rightly bang on about the US but Europe is up to its neck as well, and you hear few criticisms of it. The Swedes, the Germans, in fact all European countries are involved in some shape or form, including Ireland!

        We should put our house in order.

        Greece was buying for the absurd conflict with Turkey (again vested interests on all sides) plus to control their own population.

        Chomsky is a tremendous individual, a courageous man who as Amy Goodman says ‘speaks truth to power’. He is scathing of state and corporate institutions as well as academy (the high priests of orthodoxy, servants of power).

        I have had the pleasure of conversing with him. His books are a treasure trove, I started reading ‘Year 501: The Conquest Continues’ last night, full of remarkable observations on Egytian and Indian industrialisation and ship building, which was run into the ground by the British so that factories in Manchester could emerge (the so called ‘home of the industrial revolution’ – nothing could be further from the truth).

        I probably quote him too much, but I haven’t come across anyone who comes close – his book ‘Understanding Power’ is also a very important read.

        A truly remarkable human being.

        I once asked him if he ever got despondent and he responded:

        “I don’t think one should feel despondent. The best recommendation is still Gramsci’s: pessimism of the intelligence, optimism of the will. Things have looked very bad before, worse than now, but it’s been possible to reinvigorate popular struggle and commitment the decent ideals that most people have buried within, even if they are concealed.

        That aside, we have only two choices: give up hope and help ensure that the worst will happen. Or decide to assume that there is some hope, and work to make the world a better place. Not much of a choice.”

  20. tony_murphy

    I travel on the tube everyday. I take the central line from London City. Almost everyday, there is an investment banker or someone working in finance on the tube beside me. I glance over their shoulders to see what they are reading, and most of the time it’s something about CDS’s, short strategies, futures trading, carbon trading etc.. These people add no value to society. The invent nothing, the drive up prices of commodities. Why are they allowed to get away with it?

    The city is a giant casino. Except it’s a casino with different rules. The gamblers never lose, those on the outside pick up the losses.

    • wills


      This CDo etc all insurance, side bets on the market.

      They get away with it because the ‘side bets’ / insurance scam / paper money fraud they all know is nothing but a paper scam anyway so why not milk it for it s worth.

      Exact same nonsense going on with NAMA / ECB. They do it cos they know it s all paper and ink any hows and they figure if the oxygen / confidence is there keeping it going well fcuk it keep at it until it no longer works.

  21. CREST

    Somebody earlier mentioned SF, I have lost any respect that I’ve had for that party.
    Jerry, Martin and his cronies have been fighting the British for hundreds of years, the British have never been the threath to Ireland that the current lot are, ie Corrupt Politicians,Bankers, Property developers etc.
    To quote Martin ” the Boys have not gone away you know” Wonder what they are doing. not heard of any badly beaten politician,banker, or property developer found along the Border recently.

    • Colin_in_exile

      SF/IRA robbed the northern bank, and shared out the £30m amongst their volunteers. I’m sure Maurice Quinlivan’s brother Nessan got his share of the loot for “serving time” and used this money to buy the property which was rented out to the brazilian whores to ply their trade in Clancy Strand, Limerick…….but the silence has been deafening in the national media regarding how an ex IRA prisoner with no history of honest paid employment could afford to own property.

      • Ruairí

        @ Crest If they were true protectors of the people then, for good or bad, they would have done as you say and be damned for it.

        But they’re not. They’re caught up in self-perpetuation like every other political movement.

        @ Colin in Exile Its like most affronts to the people, be it the desecration at Omagh, the nihilism of NAMA or the tolerance of the criminal side of the IRA in order to acheive political goals, we as common people are the losers and the puppetmasters play their games above us.

        The silence is deafening in the national media generally. You could read most Sunday papers and feel you were in Switzerland and not in a banana Republic. Thankfully, the Sunday Business Post offers pragmatic readers the jolting reality of opposing viewpoints. Thank God for a fairly decent paper. Fairly, though it has its moments too.

    • Ruairí

      Additionally Crest,

      from the great man himself, General Michael Collins: -

      “The course of life and labour reminds me of a long journey I once took on the railway. Suddenly, there was a breakdown ahead, and passengers took the event in various ways. Some of them sat still resignedly, and never said a word. Others again, went to sleep. But some of us leaped out of that train, and ran on ahead to clear the road of all obstructions”

      What we need across all walks of Irish life are obstruction clearers. If only the electorate would WAKE UP and see that they are the ultimate ‘obstruction clearers’, should they choose to back a body of new politicians who could be held to their promises.
      ps a very worthy cause folks. Take a look? Some of our ‘founding fathers’ of both sides can and should be looked to in order to see through the confusion of where we find ourselves. And so we can move to a new appraisal of Ireland and what it expects from / does for its citizens and guests.
      “The uses of wealth are to provide good health, comfort, moderate luxury, and to give the freedom which comes from the possession of these things. Our object in building up the country economically must not be lost sight of. That object is not to be able to boast of enormous wealth or of a great volume of trade, for their own sake. It is not to see our countrycovered with smoking chimneys and factories. It is not to show a great national balance-sheet, nor to point to a people producing wealth with the self-obliteration of a hive of bees. The real riches of the Irish nation will be the men and women of the Irish nation, the extent to which they are rich in body and mind and character. What we want is the opportunity for everyone to be able to produce sufficient wealth to ensure these advantages for themselves. That such wealth can be produced in Ireland there can be no doubt: `For the island is so endowed with so many dowries of nature, considering the fruitfulness of the soil, the ports, the rivers, the fishings, and especially the race and generation of men, valiant, hard, and active, as it is not easy to find such a confluence of commodities’”

      Has it really changed? Are we devoid of the things we need to prosper? Ideas, creativity, hard work and the engine to drive that cycle, the raw resources which we have in abundance and that other countries need.

      • Ruairí

        “What we must aim at is the building up of a sound economic life in which great discrepancies cannot occur. We must not have the destitution of poverty at one end, and at the other an excess of riches in the possession of a few individuals, beyond what they can spend with satisfaction and justification. Millionaires can spend their surplus wealth bestowing libraries broadcast upon the world.” General Michael Collins. Lost on the ears of FF so. Still caught up intheir civil war chicanery.

      • G

        Very useful links.

  22. wills


    This guy is a real digger for the real info, michael lewis.

  23. CREST

    No mention in the New Zealand news of anything constructive from Mary Harney, but lots of coverage to Lady Gaga.

    • Ruairí

      STOP PRESS! Lady Gaga out-PR’s Lady HaHa. Irish fans drown their sorrows (as is their wont) and wait for the death NELL. Will Lady HaHa reinvent herself before she flies back? Will pigs fly………….?

      We’ll leave the construction to Tomsheen Parlon………even though he says “oh its finished a chroí, we are ruined, my heart” !!!!!

  24. Ruairí

    Interesting Tweet by the INOU (@INOUIreland)

    “Interesting video about the
    RobinHoodTax initiative in the UK. Could Ireland do this as well? and

    Now when me aul British comrade come up with a good idea, it’s time to ape it! A micro-tax on merchant banking activities. Wait a minute, we haven’t got their scale……
    But, we have NAMA! So, for God’s sake, if this government don’t want to be remembered by their sons and daughters when they are dead and gone, as the men and women who gave away what was not theirs then please tweak NAMA to within a whisper of sanity. Give it some chance of “working”. For all of the people, that is.

    And in honour of that thinking patriot Crotty (Crotty versus Goliath), if we do decide to have some kind of a transaction tax increase on derivatives and financial engineering instruments, then let’s call it the Crotty Tax. Also in name of a true people’s hero and financial warrior William Crotty of Comeragh. The “Brennan Tax” doesn’t do it for me, bould though Willie was.

  25. CREST

    Should be constructive or otherwise.

  26. Ruairí

    There are rumours, and now they’re only rumours………! ……….that Furrylugs and Tull McAdoo were both separately invited by the other to a hidden shebeen high in the Munster mountains. One onlooker said they were approached by a man with a Marx-like moustache pointing a revolver, accompanied by a sadist with a Nazi-style walking stick knife-weapon and ushered into a black mercedes (driven by the moustached one on his spanking new driving licence!). Rumour has it they are being delivered to the K Club for debriefing and interrogation by Dan McLaughlin and John Fitzgerald and Peter Bacon for what they know about economics. It is not known at this time (as its only a rumour) if waterboarding has been used on the McWilliamites but if it has, it does no damage anyway (not longterm anyway) and, at any rate, the Gardaí do it regularly and so do most of the Dáil (Guiness being substituted for water as clean water is increasingly hard come by in the Bynama Republic).

    ISPCA have been informed due to Furry’s aural x-men issues and an interpreter is being sought for Tull McAdoo so they know when to stop torturing him, sorry so he knows when he’s assisted them in their enquiries.

    Consultation how are ya? Bring back Dick Roche……….



    I am sure all of you have your ways to deal with all that BS we are presented in the past 20 months. At times, I admit I find it hard to digest and the very nature of the subjects we discuss here are extremely depressing.

    Personally, when I just had enough of it, like yesterday, I just fire up my keyboards and computer, start improvising some music, and record that session. Then I take snippets from that session that I think are worthwhile and give them to friends.

    I hope this is ok with you David, it is meant as a little token of appreciation for the time, efforts and contributions that are posted here by you Folks. While we are not talking about pleasant things, I learn a lot from our exchange here.

    Seriously, thanks for that, I consider all of you brothers in arms here, and special thanks to David for enabling this platform! – Enjoy, and you need not be worried about any virus crap, I am on a Mac, there ain’t no viruses here! -




    Legal mambo Jambo; Friendly Disclaimer:
    All compositions that I may post on David McWilliams site are © Oceanviewstudio, Ireland 2000 – 2010. Guaranteed original laughingbear compositions , for personal use only, no commercial use permitted!

    Best wishes

    • P.S.

      Just in case someone get’s the wrong idea here, this is no hidden sales or marketing pitch, I am not doing music commercially. Oceanviewstudio creates fine art photography and prints, however, as I am a professionally trained musician, call it prudence, I copyright my work before it goes into the public..

    • Bamboo

      Hi Georg,

      Thanks for your generosity. Absolutely fantastic music.

    • Reminds me of Trance music I loved in Amsterdam over a decade ago … talent

  28. I have heard from a very close source to the bank(Anglo)…an employee..that employees in ‘key’ positions in the bank received large wage increases very recently…serious.

  29. Ruairí says
    Additionally Crest,

    from the great man himself, General Michael Collins: -

    “The course of life and labour reminds me of a long journey I once took on the railway. Suddenly, there was a breakdown ahead, and passengers took the event in various ways. Some of them sat still resignedly, and never said a word. Others again, went to sleep. But some of us leaped out of that train, and ran on ahead to clear the road of all obstructions”
    Michael Collins grave must be an unquiet present.
    If he were only to erupt forth from the clay, brandishing a colt 45 in both hands and lead all good men to Dail Eireann to wipe out that gang of garglers who have destroyed all he fought and died for.!
    There is no evidence -as of yet-of an angry people gathering outside that den of political thieves with either placards or pikes!
    Even the well organized public service unions can hardly muster a quorum on the streets.!

  30. All your articles are splendid David, they just keep getting better and better.
    I don’t think it has sunk in to the average man just what this NAMA “Black Hole vortex of public money, entails in consequences.
    Fianna Fail will probably have left office before the serious street riots begin.(Pity Gilmore & Kenny )
    I don’t think the gang in Leinster House have even begun to see where it is leading the nation.
    I don’t think Brussels know either.
    The Japanese experience X 3, or worse?

  31. Morning,

    Thanks for all the comments over the past week. I am getting the idea that people are beginning to see through the scam that is NAMA.

    On other matters I am revamping the website, is there anything I should be putting on the homepage to make tit easier to navigate?

    Best and thanks David

    • Malcolm McClure

      David: The blog now commonly runs to 3 pages. To help navigate it could use a ‘page turner’ at the top of each page of comments as well as at the bottom. Also a ‘page to go to’ slot beside the log-on slot so that we don’t have to download pages already read when we come back.
      Also a Search slot that covered the current and previous blogs only, so that comments on comments could be placed appropriately.
      I should also find it helpful if your email notiification headers contained the pen-name of the sender.

      Thanks for everything.

      • G

        Hi David,

        Agree with points made, there are many things that can be done to enhance site.

        Navigating the posts (especially when they run over a page) is cumbersome and not smooth, a more concise, all on one page would be easier, indeed I found the format over a year and a bit ago the best of all the ones used. Better for comments to go across the page as oppose to scrolling through pages.

        Search engine should be enhanced.

        Overall layout symplified, and cleared up.

        All articles should be linked to other sites like Facebook like you see on Huffington Post and other sites.

        A ‘print article button’ would be handy.

        Could you extend the video interviews you’ve done with people like Chomsky, would like to see the full thing.

        Clearer archive of all articles.

        Thanks for the site overall, been useful.

    • Ruairí

      Hello David,

      I have just purchased a copy of this ebook for you :-D. Big spender that I am. I will email it to you, hopefully there’s something useful in there.

      A word cloud might be helpful so that posters could see what’s significant. Although NAMA and expletives come to mind!! and (suitable for WordPress David)

      Also, really concentrate on usability.

      On the subject of usability and readability, have a look at this interesting paper, should you wish to future-proof your work

      Think less in terms of the surfed web and more in terms of aggregators, mash-ups, RSS feed readers, and also in terms of connecting your content at the topic level to other blogs / platforms at the topic level, in real time. Blur the lines, don’t compartmentalise. Your voice is one of the strongest out there. You won’t lose traffic / readers; you will gain it.

    • Bamboo

      Re: revamping website.

      I agree with the above points and I’d like to add the following

      - Unfortunately the “Comments” links don’t don’t work with Safari. Don’t know how many are using Safari or having the same issue. So I have to use another browser to get these links to work.

      - The email notifications on comments don’t have the links to the comment. Just to the article. Maybe a good idea to add the id number to the mail notification.

      - A feature of sorting by poster or topic may be a handy feature. There are instances whereby I’d like to refer back to who posted what and when.

      - A Feature to add particular tags to ones own comment may be handy. For example I’d like to visit the links that are posted another time when it suits better. A tagging feature for links enables the search engines to links and tags.

      Some posts are very elaborate and very much worth revisiting again so a tagging system will come in handy.

      - Maybe a Feature to send a personal message to a particular poster.

      Thanks David for this forum.

      • G

        All good suggestions Bamboo, like this one in particular –

        “Maybe a Feature to send a personal message to a particular poster. “

    • wills


      Without forgetting it is your website and it is easy to forget sometimes i reckon the following.

      Twitter / facebook links. Twitter streaming link up’s.

      Open up archive articles and bring it forward in some way on home page making it all relevant, cos it all is.

      index of links recommended by posters could be very valuable on home page.

      Keep the new comments at top and oldest at bottom, most important for preserving flow of ideas and freshness.

    • liam

      Hello David,

      You’re welcome. Small stuff to recommend really:
      The home page is fine in terms of content, but I can only think of perhaps giving the latest articles more prominence. That is a more typical blog style. And the book promotion stuff could go to the right-hand side, next to it.

      Being able to read the old comments would be interesting, they are searchable but not readable.

      How about a google-driven search box?

      Nested comments are great, and bottom-posting is completely standard. It might make them more organisable if they were collapse-able.

      “About” and “contact” might make more sense integrated in to the main (light blue) menu.

    • s1lverbullet

      i think we are all missing the point. David, you are highlighting what we all as citizens already know but seem too brush over too quickly. Nama is a SCAM, so what the hell are we going to do about it. Forget about people waffling on in response to another good article!. David, you have the nous, the connections, and the visibility. ORGANISE A DEMONSTATION and get these charlatans out. You can be the catalyst. I think you will be very surpsised at the reaction. We as a people can stop this Nama fraud!!

      • wills


        I reckon a wager on the fact that D well knows this.

        There is absolutely no point in running on steam with banners flying in the wind no2nama.

        For one, the insiders mouthpiece rte1 will show any anti NAMA protests as nothing short as a gang of nutters, and this will send the frightened sheep running in the opposite direction over the cliff.

        Stopping NAMA is going to be a huge challenge and when the insiders get going pushing NAMA through it will be a long protracted resistance movement required to keep calling out the truth on what the insiders are doing.

        Stopping NAMA is not just stopping a piece of financial engineering it is also stopping the insiders interests power wielding tyranny over our freedoms, so lets be smart think smart and maybe david can kill goliath.

        • s1lverbullet

          I don’t mean banner waving. Without saying something that might land me in court, I think we can physically stop Nama. In any other country the banks would be, at the very least blockaded, if not ransacked. I am sick to death of all the talk without action. These directors giving themselves a big raise last week should have been the final straw, but we just shrug our shoulders and say ” that’s a disgrace”. Are we a land of idiots or what. If enough of us start ‘protesting’, the rest will follow. They are sheep after all!

        • Wills , on his own David cannot stop NAMA and as for RTE well they will have no choice but to show what is happening if we marched not just in Dublin but every town in the country , you have a tendency here of going on about the Great Ponzi scam and going on and on but unless you and the rest of us don’t soon get up and STAND UP or Sit down on the actual streets these ‘insiders’ will remain in their ivory towers .
          Of Course David could write an Article announcing a demonstration say the end of April but would his cheque signers in the Indo or Sunday B Post let him do this is another question.
          Sitting at your computer making countless posts to each article will not help in any way to getting rid of our present corrupt cronies in the Dail,
          Now more Action is needed and any suggestion should be considered . I am living down in Wexford but will travel to any meeting now where ANY Ideas are been put forward to stop what is happening to this country , as youe ‘insiders’ as I and others have said before don’t care as ‘they’ have the nest eggs and aren’t worried about the social consequences of Families been broken up , couples getting separated or young men been buried as they couldn’t take the pressure of a bank loan they could no longer pay.
          Something has to be done and fast.

    • Philip

      David, might I suggest you change as little as possible. The cosmetics shoudl never override the content. Take all the good suggestions on board and prioritise as per your preference. NEVER make all changes at once or you confuse easily befuddled minds like myself :)

    • I looked at the site overall and wrote down notes. There are links below to the sites of two guys who are usability gurus and if you have time you can even read the story of the 300 million dollar web page button.

      It takes a few moments to decide what the site is about then it appears that this is someone who works in the media, sells books and dvds and has accounts on facebook etc. All this info appears above the Home page fold so it appears that selling books is the main objective. The current Home page would never suggest to strangers that this person has interviewed high profile people like Hilary Clinton.

      Many sites promote books from the home page but do it below the fold or in the sidebar. Content driven sites push content on to the front page and have separate pages for publications etc. Here you could remove the large faceshot from the Home page sidebar because you already have it on the about page. You could use a much small thumbnail on the home page sidebar followed by a sentence and a link to the About page.

      This would allow you to push “Latest Articles” and the searchbox above the fold with the social media

      buttons being placed beneath the searchbox. The user comments could come next and the ad placed at the bottom of the sidebar.

      The large yellow block on the Home page could be broken up into boxes and used much more efficiently where visitors could see the latest article, event, interview, book etc. A random quote might also add a nice touch and possibly a political cartoon.

      The home page lists the three latest articles but these are already available from the sidebar and by duplicating navigation like this it wastes valuable space that could be used to promote other content.

      No Slogan. eg, “Irish Economist, Writer and Television Broadcaster”
      About | contact links look like a search box and not like links or buttons.
      About | contact links would be better placed at the right hand side of main menu.

      This is where I get confused.
      The only links that make sense are “Home and “Articles” and I had to guess where the others might lead.

      Possible substitutes:
      “Conversations” – “Interviews” or “Face to Face”

      “Media” – “TV & Radio”

      “Speaking” – “Events”

      “Generation”, “Popes Children” and “Addicted to” are vague and would be better placed on a separate page or with sidebar links such as “Books” or “Best Sellers” pointing to that page. This move would give you space at the right side of the menu to put in something useful like a searchbox. Currently the search box lies below the fold and is invisible.

      When browsing articles there are a few annoying distractions that can be put right with simple css formatting. The date appears above the article title and is highlighted. It should below the article teaser and subdued. The article titles are links but look like plain text. switching on the underline style of the
      titles to make them look like links would be much more helpful. Changing the colour of the titles to blue would improve things greatly. The numbers to the left of the dates don’t provide any meaning and are superfluous – bullets are far better.

      Example –
      Notice how easy on the eye this page reads when browsing by scrolling horizontally.

      You could also implement a better paging system for the content because apart from the blog post pages there is now to tell how much content there is and what page you are on.

      Content can also be easily grouped just by arranging it on the page and providing appropriate jump links like this:

      Hope this helps.

    • G , this is what or maybe where we will have to go, but do we have the same passion ?

      • G

        I think we do have the same passion BrendanW, or history CLEARLY illustrates it. We never gave up and we have our Republic, I always find that rather remarkable.

        The spirit of freedom passed torch like from one generation to the next. The same spirit exists within the children today, 800 years does that, it is in the DNA, I have no doubt about it.

        Major events in history have a couple of things in common – timing and circumstance. When these two items come together they can produce the most extra-ordinary results. I have no doubt at all having studied history intensely for over 20 years. It jumps off the page.

        Things have changed but at the same time, not that much, basic human needs and desires are the same.

        Mao was asked the consequence of the French Revolution, he responded “it is too early to say” and he was right.

        We are on a path, the future is uncertain, the rich man would truly hang himself with a rope if he thought there was a dollar in it. Currently he enjoys the full luxury of state resources and protection, everything is in his favour but as Dylan sang “the times, they are a changing”.

  32. coldblow

    suggestions for site:

    1. one page (as it was originally)

    2. no nesting: newest comments at bottom of page in chronological order, if necessary referring to post. no. if in reply to it

    3. search facility for archives

    4. for some reason I can’t print this blog off but have to transfer it to Word first – it’ll print first page but nothing else.

  33. coldblow

    I think the significance of this lending is that nearly all the €10bn is lost. I thought this would happen when NAMA starts transferring loans in a few days time. It’s like seeking a final stay of execution only to find out that the prisoner has already been hanged on the quiet.

    I always convert these sums of money into cost per person. So, there are three of us in our house, and 4m pop., which means we’ll have given Anglo 7.5k. When you factor in interest etc, let’s say 15k?

  34. coldblow

    Kevin Myers raised the subject of a new national anthem recently. (Andrew Mooney provided a link I recall).

    Our official anthem (Gaelic) should be an tAmhrán Bréagach (which as the name suggests is all lies and exaggeration) suitably updated.

    We would need a rugby anthem also. I don’t know what the words would be but the title is: “C’mon, guys!”

    But I have found the words for the main anthem:,Angry+Mob/The+Angry+Mob/

    I don’t know what it sounds like. Has anyone heard it?

    Here’s some of it:

    We are the angry mob
    We read the papers every day
    We like who we like
    We hate who we hate
    But we’re all so easily led!

  35. Ruairí

    Just got an email from Intertrade Ireland

    “The Conference comes at an important time for entrepreneurial businesses. The current economic environment is the most challenging in decades but there remains equity finance available for the best companies. Additional seed funding has been made available and private investors are becoming yet more professional through the business angel networks. Even the very best early-stage companies have to raise their game to attract funding.

    The Conference will showcase the current sources of equity capital (both institutional and the business angel networks) on the Island as well as providing a platform for four start up companies to tell their stories including practical ‘do’s and don’ts’.

    The role of bank debt funding for young companies will be debated as well as the legal aspects of equity finance and an overview of equity investment on the Island.

    There will also be a unique opportunity for Conference delegates to meet with the investors during the networking breaks throughout the day.

    Further details on the programme and speakers will be available soon.”

    The role of bank debt funding!!! And they don’t mean on the interbank end neither !

    • s1lverbullet

      Anybody out there with the expertise and ability to start a major demonstration to stop the Nama fraud???? It’s about time we acted rather than blogged!!

  36. Evening,

    To those commentators who have suggested that there is a difference between mezzanine financiers and senior debt holders and thus the article is unfounded, I’d advice you to have a gander at international episodes of distressed debt trading.

    At the beginning of a debt deflation cycle the legal/corporate finance niceties of the boom tend to be thrown out as if theses will protect the senior debt holders. Then it becomes apparent that the debtor has not means to pay the debt and the underlying asset is marked down. My experience in emerging markets (of which Ireland has all the characteristics) is that even senior stuff is marked down appropriately.

    Russia’s MinFins went to 5 cent in the dollar for example (despite huge reserves of oil etc). We then find a market and trade again. This will happen to Irish land obviously. Those who accuse this column of being tabloid are simply silly and deluded and clearly have never traded in a distressed situation.
    Lads the old game is over! Get that into your heads and move on.

    Re the Woodbrook deal, this market dynamic doesn’t matter because the crime is that NAMA puts a floor under things.

    Lads where the mezz’ goes, the senior follows unless you have an idiot called the Irish taxpayer to put a floor under it!

    So those who have unsubscribed to the site, off you go into NAMA never neverland.

    All the best in the recession, David

    • Tim

      David, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.

      You have done a fine job of warning everyone – if some want to keep hoping for the bubble to re-inflate, there is little more you can do to stop them.

      The task, now, is for the rest of us ordinary Irish citizens to find a way to stop our government from artificially re-inflating the bubble at our expense (again).

      Please give further consideration to how you might lead us in that task. Many are ready to assist.

      • Dilly

        As my sister says of the current Government “the only thing you can expect from an ass is a kick”.

      • Tim – hark hark….just let me whisper something different over here in the corner – today I went to the INTO meeting in Nenagh re: teachers retirement and apparently it was the last one having done the round of the country over past few months or so.A friend of mind asked me to attend.
        It was all about lump sums and annuity pension payments and those there were like muppets in a classroom.Listening to the telephone number figures I for a moment thought the recession was over and that I must have been dillusional for the past year or so.’And so the Minister says this and that …..etc ..’ was the hymme sheet of the speaker …a really nice guy…just doing his job.I recalled a nightmare I had last year when I thought I read from this column ‘ that the Minister Brian Lenihan will cross the corridor and go into the T-Shocks office and tell him we have no more money to pay the teachers….’. Today I was convinced I must have been mad .
        Massive pay-outs to senior teachers to leave and on fantastic terms .Later some of the words became yellow as they spoke of the new arrivals the new crop of teachers will have a hard life as a teacher long hours more responsibilities and less pensions and lump sums.Also , existing teachers wanting to leave will have to wait three to four months to get an application form to apply to retire……..then I began to wonder …why the big delay …is the government procrastinating with bluff and bluster.
        At question time my head was banging me to tell them that take their lump sums now and run for there will be no tomorrow ……’.Viva Devaluation’

        • Philip

          A waste of time. Is it any wonder the maths ability imparted to our youngsters is so bad.

          • Tim

            Philip, no wonder at al, when our highest maths achivers are hired by the private sector as actuaries on €250k+ pa and, next, as engineers and then as accountants……

            All earning multiples of a maths teacher’s salary.

            “Vocations” are nice ‘n squidgey ‘n all, but they don’t put bread on the table like the great salaries available to mathematicians in the private sector.

          • Philip

            The science of pedagogy is subtle. This cannot be ignored. To know and to teach are very different things indeed. As an engineer who has attempted and many times failed to teach kids, I see how easy it is to loose them – so maybe I am learning. But I wince when I see some of the results I have brought in on internships – i feel like slapping them, smashing their calculators and re-start at the basics. There is something structurally wrong with the pedagogy of maths that has recently entered the system and it is not just about not having maths literacy.

          • paddythepig

            Tim, can you produce evidence that engineers are paid ‘multiples of a teachers salary’.

            More throw-away comments from you methinks.


        • Tim

          John ALLEN, I agree with almost all that you have written here (including your speculation on future conditions). The only thing I would question is the term, “Massive pay-outs”, because I do not consider that 1.5 times the finishing salary of a teacher to be “massive” – certainly not in comparison to the *truly* massive pay-outs we have seen made to the likes of Molloy, Neary, bankers (all failures) and all politicians (none of whom have contributed to their pensions); especially when the teacher who has paid into her/his pension over 40 years of service, may get a “lump-sum” as low as €105k and 40/80ths of their final salary before tax. So, they drop from €70k to €35k, overnight.

          Nothing “massive” about that, when you have worked and paid into the scheme for 40 years of dedicated service to thousands of kids, I think.

          You are 100% correct, of course, about the Employer’s plan to reduce these meagre benefits and to extend the number of working years required.

          • Tim -I agree with you but its massive relative to those who cannot have that opportunity and thats a large segment of the population.
            And everyone was smiling .Its a memory since I saw a group of people do that recently.
            Oh my Mona Lisa you are so beautiful .

      • Philip

        Tim, to be honest I cannot see how they are going to escape. The jaws of truth are closing slowly but surely.

        What grassroots FF should be doing is closing down their links – refuse to participate. As a mugwump, I would like to seen some ballsy leadership rise like a phoenix and really I care not from, where. But as I believe it was Sean Dunne who said…the people with the money have no balls and those without have all the balls. I think with the “apparent” shortage of money, it’d be wise for the grassroots to walk away from the current fools in the interests of their medium term future.

        Anyway, what do I know? Nothing. But I am a noted dab hand at sums and stats. So far, I tend to be not far off the mark.

        • Tim

          Philip, I fear you are correct.

          • Tim

            Philip, we teachers opposed the DES and the NCCA on the proposed introduction of calculators in class (first) and then in examinations.

            We were ignored.

            Just as we were ignored when we opposed the abolition of mental arithmetic from the syllabus; just as we were when we opposed the abolition of English grammar from the syllabus.

            We can all see the results of ignoring those “at the coal-face” (chalk-face), in all walks of life, I guess.

          • Tim

            John ALLEN, everyone has the opportunity to amalgamate and negotiate their own group-scheme superannuation deal – all it takes is solidarity.

            This scheme for the teachers you saw was not just “handed” to them; I spent 6 years fighting to join it. Now, (since April 2004) that the benefits have been eroded, every teacher is automatically railroaded into it, whether they want it or not.

            Also, I always say that for anybody who believes that the pay, conditions of work and pensions of teachers are desireable, there is nothing stopping any person from doing the work of qualifying for that profession and seeking the same.

        • Tim – my wife totally agrees with you she sent me there.It made me understand why dolphins cannot walk on land.

    • wills



      NAMA s been sold to the irish taxpayer and in fact thte irish citizens as a necessary mechanism for to ‘manage the market’. This is a blatant egregious lie on the ‘controllers’.

      NAMA is in actuality a mechanism all about ‘manipulating the market’. BIG DIFFERENCE.

      The difference between democracy in action and tyranny in action.

      NAMA is so serious an issue it cannot be repeated enough times the truth over what NAMA is in truth.

      • Philip

        Next step…tax all Non Nama land to hell and force people to buy nama land at inflated prices.

        Might be a means of putting nuke power plants into areas where no nama ventured before….

        So we have energy and a nama that make commercial sense – albeit at teh coercive behest of the planning dept. :) – I wonder could such be going thro their heads?

        • wills

          Could do. NAMA going through means the precedent set to do whatever they dream up next in their ‘pinky and the brain’ econ laboratory no holds barred.

          Any madcap piece of financial engineering goes. Once the confidence in the paper money remains in check of course. Which judging by the zombies in the RTE frontline audience last night seems like is in the bag for a long time to come.

    • GOOD ON YOU DAVID , your getting a bit more pissed ( literally ) … So when are we going to stop this NAMA ?…

    • chinaexpat

      Hi David,
      My simple response was that the facts of your article on this specific case were incorrect. Nama in general I don’t agree with but in relation to this property deal the idea that the Davy investors are being bailed out is not really valid. If the Davy investors receive a cent from this deal it will mean that the tax payer has not paid anything for the deal as the full loan repayments will have been repaid.

  37. Tim

    Folks, there are so many reasons to spend 15 minutes watching this:

    The Governator on Ireland and Business

    • s1lverbullet

      The way he goes on you’d swear California was booming instead of being run into the ground , and in billions upon billions of debt

  38. paddyjones

    What of the property investors who do not falll into the NAMA bracket, these people are all over the country, greedy people who borrowed to buy several properties to rent them out to mainly immigrants. On the frontline we got a glimpse of them , they are not so cock sure of themselves any more. If you are going to be an investor gamble on the stock market , people rarely borrow money to do this so they only lose what they have invested and it is a liquid form of investment. Gambling on borrowed money in an illiquid asset is pure crazy. Now what becomes of these property investors they cannot sell their assets but must repay the mortgages. Many are now unemployed and many got interest only mortgages for the first few years. What awaits them is repossesion and bankrupcy. These people are doctors, gardai, civilservants, teachers etc. Rents will continue to fall over the next few years as recession continues. Given that we will cut public spending by 3 billion this year and every year until 2014, don’t expect any rises in income.
    The ECB is calling the shots now and rightly so. For these property investors it is going to be slow death.

    • wills


      I reckon after NAMA is a done deal, these secondary POnzi scam merchants will get a deferral on their debts and some type of NAMA mark II to buy their silence and keep traction in the ranks of the rigged market proponents.

  39. Marking D Kettle – I think in our words to deliver the plain truth in an easy way we should focus on the the most important word …MARKET . It is this word that explains where our true destiny does shine .In this word the energy of nature flows and that we must watch in awe of its beauty as it passes .Holding our breath is not enough we must sing its praise and glory and worship its regal tenure in our presence .Nothing can stop the forces of the MARKET as it flows past us in all its glory and might distroying all before it .
    Any false god worshipped on its path will only bring Death and Hell and therefore we must …STOP NAMA .

    • Philip

      +1. Let them screw with Mr Enderfield some more and let’s see what happens.

    • paddyjones

      In simple terms the original developer lost their 30% odd cash investment the banks lost another 30 % so NAMA gets these properties for 40 % of their original initial investment. NAMA is a done deal nothing can stop it not even FG/Lab will stop it. 40 % of NAMA loans are performing and 40 % are abroad where there is a liquid market for these assets be it now lower than before. I don’t like NAMA nobody does thats the point but we are stuck with it for now and it must be managed in a way thats above board and limit its eventual and inevitable loss to the people of Ireland.

      • Philip

        You are assuming a bottomless cash feed. Deals only last as long as they can be fulfilled. The 40% is a fiction which can only have present value as long as markets can tolerate it. It’d better do better than 40% or there will be a retreat. Taxpayers only provide a floor for so long.

      • s1lverbullet

        Please tell me why we are stuck with Nama?? I bet you if we really got going we could stop the sham. All the spin says it’s the only show in town, it’s gone through now. FUCK THAT!! If the country unites we can do anything, no matter what the scum at the top say!!

  40. wills

    John ALLEN, Philip.

    On the market having its way, maybe NAMA will explode into smithereens if the Euro collapses under the weight of the PIG s arse sitting on Germany s powerful economy paying the PIG s bill will be to much for the euro s existence and bye bye NAMA lunatic scam.

    • Wills – actually I cannot see the difference between the worship of the golden calf when the jews were crossing the desert and the Gov/ Banks creation of NAMA .
      What will happen next is the arrival of a new Moses who will give us The New Commandment – the eleventh – Never Vote For Fianna Fail

      • wills


        Does look like though, FG Labour and the Greens are in compliance with FF in making sure the NAMA SCAMARAMA golden calf reaches the sanctity of the alter and enshrines POnzi Rep ‘s fate as a scamarama paradise for aeons to come.

      • s1lverbullet

        another connection between the golden calf and Nama is – the jews, in the form of the Rothschilds bank!

  41. wills


    my ‘david kill NAMA goliath’ metaphor is not putting the burden onto D it was a use of the biblical metaphor.

    Appreciate comment all the same though.

  42. Tim


    “Tim, can you produce evidence that engineers are paid ‘multiples of a teachers salary’.

    More throw-away comments from you methinks.”

    I *can* produce that evidence, Paddy.

    You know that I can, because I produced it for you about 2 years ago, here.

    I also produced evidence that engineers left county councils in droves, to accept jobs in the private sector at multiples of their public-sector earnings, as well.

    You seem to ignore all evidence that I (or anyone here, or anywhere else), produces beacuse it does not seem to suit your private-sector-government-and-media-spin-and-lies-ideology.

    I have spent my time here trying to learn and trying to contribute informative links to information that is not available on RTE or in the Irish Times; information that is hidden from the majority of Irish citizens.

    I am not here for “argument” or “debate” with you.

    There would be no point, for me, in digging-up (again) the links to the evidence you request (again), because you would, simply, ignore them (again), or denounce them, or forget them or, simply, not comprehend them.

    Since it appears that you do not really read anything that I write here, what would be the point in doing that research (again) for you?

    No point.

    You can google the research for yourself, can’t you?

    (instead of ignoring mine, posted here; misinterpreting/misrepresenting it; then pretending I never posted it/forgetting it and, then, finally, asking for me to do it all-over-again!)

    Jeez! Go and Google it for yourself, man!

    • Tim

      …and, Paddy,

      I do not make “throw-away comments”.

      I mean what I say (and I say waht I mean).

      What are you at?

      Who are you, anyway, and why are you “hiding”?

    • paddythepig

      As I thought, you have nothing to back up your comments.

      Produce clear evidence please, backed up by stats for each type of engineer – mechanical, civil, electronic, software, chemical .. and so on – and let’s see them. Make them current as well, not from two years ago.

      You have no such evidence have you Tim?

      • Tim


        It doesn’t exist.

        No such evidence available anywhere.

        No-one has that information.

        It is not even available on that world wide web thingy they’re all talking about.

        You have caught me out, in the end, Paddy.


    • Malcolm McClure

      Tim; Than you for that link which I missed i in SBP . I have great respect for Colm McCarthy’s opinions.and this article forms a timely injection of realism into these proceedings. We need “consistent focus on the unpalatable, but inescapable, agenda of cost-reduction, across both public and private sectors.”

      “It is grim, and will take several years to execute, but it is grounded in reality. No coherent and feasible alternative to this course of action has been argued from any quarter.

      It is a tough, unexciting but unavoidable path to economic sustainability, for which office-holders can expect little thanks.”

      • Tim

        Malcolm McClure, except that a “coherent and feasible alternative to this course of action has been argued” on, by Michael Taft.

        McCarthy does not promote it, though, because it involves cutting the €7.4 Billion tax-breaks to the wealthy.

        That is Budget 2010′s public service cuts PLUS proposed Budget 2011′s public service cuts, all in one shot.

        That’s €7.4 Billion, available EVERY year, right there.

        But, “no-alternative”, “we are where we are”, etc., will prevail, alas!

        • Malcolm McClure

          Tim: Tax -breaks to the wealthy normally come from profits (Which are few and far between these days) or from investments in plant and machinery etc. (Which lead to employment and surely are to be encouraged?)

          For the last two years, Gallup has been asking 1,000 Americans every day how much they’ve been spending at stores, restaurants, gas stations, and online. The average for upper-income households–those with incomes above $90,000–in February plunged to a new low of $98, down 13% from January. The numbers aren’t seasonally adjusted, so the monthly changes have to be taken with a grain of salt, but the yearly change is a sharp —19%.
          By contrast, spending by middle- and lower-income households has been more or less flat for a year. Both are way off their May 2008 peaks–down by almost half for both groups.
          As Gallup’s chief economist, Dennis Jacobe, pointed out in reporting these results on Wednesday, the retail economy badly needs freer spending by the well-off. That’s where most of the discretionary juice is; households of more modest means just don’t have the money to ramp up spending beyond the level of basics.

          Don’t let’s knock the wealthy too hard, as they might still have the means to get us out of this mess.

          • Ruairí

            Hi Malcolm,

            what I want to know is, and am keen to learn, is how competitiveness can be achieved if house prices (land prices) are artifically held up using taxpayers through NAMA? Surely this will cause a dearth of consumption as consumers re-adjust to higher cost of home ownership and higher taxes (as a ratio of public expenditure benefits received back)?

            Surely the government are aiming to install a ‘new deal’ that doesn’t compute for not only the outsiders but also a good many of the lower-ranking ‘(s)insiders’ also.

            We do need cost reductions. Definitely. Once again, the source of those reductions may not be the real issue. Joe Ordinary does occupy the majority of the tax-take pyramid after all. But its the lack of proportion in the social promise of this carrying the burden together that’s way off the mark. A great deal of the paye and public service workers DON’T want to see property prices head further south. But if they don’t, aren’t these cost reductions for nothing? Short-termist? Irish people WILL have their property fix, nothing will stop them. So cost reductions via wages will not, by itself, achieve anything. The whole society must be wound down equally or else all Colm McCarthy is is a small bureacratic cog in a big unbalanced wheel. That will eventually come off the wagon, I can tell you. we all need a crack at things. Reaganomics / McCreevonomics has had its day. I’d rather a lot more self-sufficiency efforts via SOHOs, SMEs etc than this pandering to the wealthy. Not so many of them are that HOT at all when it comes to making money when they don’t have the tax break opportunity. Sure, money makes money, but every now and then, brains, zeal and persistence do too. That’s what I want to see. A return of power and self-reliance to the people. Tax breaks have their uses, but overall they are a government intervention where, very often, its not needed, only WANTED.

        • s1lverbullet

          Correct Tim. Malcolm, you are either an idiot or morally corrupted!. I personally can have little respect for someone who recommends cutting social welfare, shutting down community schemes, and crucifying low-paid public service workers, while no mention of abolishing landlord tax breaks, pension relief for high-paid workers and so on. The man has no scruples, no morals and no humane decency, and you show your true colours with your admiration!!! Shame on you

          • Malcolm McClure

            S1lverbullet: I heard McCarthy outline his analysis of our woes at the Glenties summer school last August.. He came across as an old school realist, who had seen it all before and was sadder and wiser for the experience. I may of course be an idiot (hopefully uncorrupt) but I trust his judgement. There are no soft options, as you will discover when you get a few grey hairs. Ireland had run away with the fairies and he was trying to get it back.

        • Ruairí

          +1 Tim. Certain sacred cows have not been tampered with, in any respect.

          If the average FF voter could open their eyes, obre les ojos, and realise that when they vote for FF in the last 10 years, they are handing their social power to PD-infected FF. Cullen, Dempsey, Cowen (wanted to return closet achiever Harney to the FF fold) etc; all willfully imposing PD policy on a grassroots that still mistakenly believe they are a party for small farmers, working people, republican-minded, self-sufficiency-aware, etc etc.

          Would jobs be lost in the horse industry? Yes. Would it matter, really, versus an old citizen not getting the visits they need? NO!

          A day of reckoning is approaching for the current FF cabinet and their advisors. There are many unhappy FF people out there. I doubt however if they have enough gumption to split the party in two and rid themselves of disease-infested Walter Mitty ‘doer / enabler’ types like Cowen, Dempsey and shadows like Mary Harney. I am sure they do get things DONE, but not for the vast majority who voted for them. Irish democracy sucks on this National Day. Malcolm, your idea of an assembly-type mandate warms my heart.

          s1lverbullet, steady on! Malcolm’s views are usually excellent. Perhaps Colm Mccarthy being rolled in in 2003-2005 might have been excellent. A case of the right weapon but the wrong battle deployment. I blame those who gave him the brief. He is not correct inmy view in how he addresses our shortfalls, but he is correct that all costs must be wound down. Solicitors, doctors, garage labour time how are ya? All still milking it to beat the Paddy’s Day bands……

          • Malcolm McClure

            Hi Ruairi: As s1lverbullet says, I may be an idiot, but I can’t see a direct connection between NAMA and house prices. Any property is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. There will always be the foolish and desperate who pay too much and the shrewd or lucky who buy at the bottom. However the F&D may make a bigger profit than the S&L, depending on when they sell, on inflation and on the size of their mortgage. Blaming everything on NAMA strikes me as far too simplistic.
            I have a gut feeling that NAMA will seem completely irrelevant in 10 years time, as we will be faced with a whole new range of challenges, possibly including a totally electronic currency.
            A (very) belated happy St Patrick’s day to one and all.

          • s1lverbullet

            Ok, points noted and apologies offered Malcolm, but I get a bit angry sometimes. I totally agree there has to be major cuts and reforms, but I believe he targetted the soft optionsn instead of cutting where cuts are really needed

  43. —- CAMP NAMA —-
    A Black Room in Kildare street?

    Ok you might ask, what happened to him now? Camp Nama? May be a case of pre St.Patricks day increased alcohol levels, or what is he on about? …. Let me explain….

    See, today I was speaking with an ex US marine corps member, who is suffering not only severely from PTSD as result of his tours of duty, but tragically also lost both legs.

    When I lived in the US I was also in contact with ex Military Intelligence members and listened to their stories, they were in Vietnam. I was always interested in the views of soldiers, regardless their rank, on war and their experiences, but that is another story, but trust me, once in a while you hear stories that are hard to believe.

    When I hung up the phone, it just struck me that coincidently back in 2003 when the Euro / Oil motivated US Invasion of Iraq was taking place. So I had to call back and fill in some gaps, and I was right, there really was a place called Camp NAMA, it was located on the Bagdhad Airport and used as the temporary camp before detainees were moved to Abu Ghraib, which came to fame on the abuse stories of prisoners.

    The black room was part of camp NAMA and was the headquarter of a blackops Task force, today known as Task Force 6-26 and was one of the first that were investigated in the years to follow, and one of the worst with regards to continuous detainee abuse.

    Over the course of the years 45 members were disciplined or removed because of abuse from the unit. Early warnings from Military Investigators in 2003 were ignored, and it was truly that bad the even the CIA did not want to be aligned or present. They removed CIA members in August 2003 from Camp NAMA and left.

    From there on, this was a no mans land, lawless, no judges, no crimes. Only in 2006, under pressure of liberty groups and Press, declassified documents finally allowed to put on the lights to see how bad it really was, and man, it was worth than people imagined.

    Before the truth came into the Light, you must understand that people who had some information, and were holding up red flags, guess what, they were the nutjobs, the whackos, the leftist tree huggers, they always see black helicopters over their houses and need serious help. Of course, the tactic of slandering the people who put up red flags worked for a long time, and frankly it seems to be always the case if a smaller group of people with informations on events that may be against the interest of the public, and attacking establishment with their informations, they will face this form of slander and the whole PR machine of discrediting sources and so on.

    In case to Camp NAMA it was played out the usual way. First 100% denial, although even General ranks at this time had already relevant informations as was proven later, the total denial is the first line of defense, until this slowly crumbles and increased pressure could not avoid more questions, more media attention, and more groups to be involved.

    Today, we know what happened in Abu Ghraib and Camp NAMA, probably not all of it, but more than enough to get the picture.

    This black room was the head quarter of the leaders of Task Force 6-26 and it was there that special forms of abuse were performed or weekend activities planned, such as paintball shooting on prisoners and other derogatory, and often escalating activities as we know today.

    What strikes me is the similarity, not only in coincidence of the name NAMA, but the operation in general.

    We do have a Black Room as well, only this one is in kildare street, and behind closed doors, statements are prepared, shadowy deals are closed, interest groups are served, the whole heist and scam on the people of Ireland is planned from there.

    Sure, all this is for the best of our country, and of course….. There is no other way!….. – Yaawn…. How often did we hear that? -

    So there is a small elitist group, truly operating in blackops manner that plot this scam and the implementation. Then there are those who are putting up red flags from day one.

    Not only concerned people who might not even understand the full implications, but are angry reasonably mistrusting enough by now to demand more informations.

    Only, we do not get them, as we did not get them for the comical re election on the lisbon treaty, only if you did all the due diligence yourself, you knew what Lisbon really was about.

    So again, the elitist circle plots the next step to get rid of their problems that they created in the first place, and just dump the whole lot onto the entire nation. Keep in mind, these are only a handful of people compared to the ones who are supposed to pay for it.

    So the red flag carriers are doing everything in their power to inform the public, and gather information, undeniable evidence, and ask the right questions, bring experts to the table and fight against an immoral and criminal plot that the establishment came up with.

    Only, it is early days, and it seems that only very few people are listening, or are they listening at all?

    Are the red flag carriers now the modern Hidalgo Don Quixote De La Mancha fighting windmills?

    The special interest elitist groups feel threatened and fear the public of course. As a result they are closing ranks and put even more secrecy around their activities, so does the government.

    Today we have 34 Five Star Hotels in Ireland, what a ridiculous number to begin with, and more of these Hotel ruins, that now unfairly undercut the competition with dumping prices, a room that once cost 490 Euro per night, now for 120. As reported on prime time tonight, just another of the Insider scams, having received irresponsibly high tax breaks these Megalomaniacs together with their Government buddies ripped the country in the first place, as a result the taxpayer literally payed over 40% for their RITZ CARLTON constructions. And now?

    We are asked to pay again for the very same people through Camp NAMA and the nations abuse Task Force specialists in Kildare street.

    The strange thing is, I have no feeling for the numbers, how many people in Ireland do NOT know what is going on concerning the Black Room in Kildare street and camp NAMA. By now, I would think the overwhelming majority should know, then again, I might be completely wrong here.

    Tomorrow we will see easily a 0.5 million people on the streets of Dublin, no, not to protest against camp NAMA….

    Happy St. Patricks Day Ireland!

    Here is to hoping that this Nation will wake up from the hangover and denial, and go back to the streets to demand rapid change, otherwise, sorry folks, but then I am afraid I’ll see you in Abu Grhaib.


  44. —- FRESHFIELDS —-
    The Puppeteers Executioners

    Round about 15 globally acting banks are the main Puppeteers in this Heist we see unfold. I already pointed to GS in another post, so lets look at another member of this club. UBS Switzerland.

    This monday UBS reported that the salaries of their top managers multiplied by factor 7 in 2009.

    UBS in Switzerland was bailed out with Taxpayers money!

    In 2009 they signed losses of accumulated 2.9 billion franks, but at the same time they have accumulated bonus savings to be pay out to management, in the same amount, three billion franks (round about 2 billion euro) The highest earners, surprise, surprise UBS Investment banker Chef Carsten Kengeter, 13.8 Million franks,

    The total sum the board cashed in 2009 was 68 million franks. Kindly note, compared to 9 million franks in 2008.

    Further 38 million franks were payed to honor contracts of leaving staff. – I should have listened to my parents and start a career in a bank instead of classical music. (grins) -

    [Source of figures, german manager magazin 15.3.2010]

    To date since September 2008 and estimated 100 million people have lost their job, the economic damage is lager than the combined yearly production and service output of the United States of America.

    Does really no one smell the rats? Do all politicians run around with gas masks when they speak with the bank CEO’s?

    Now lets looks at politics.

    Politicians put up a picture to the public of being in charge now, having slapped the bankers on the wrist, telling the banks of what to do and how to not run their businesses, talk about ending naked CDS trade, talk about tougher regulations, but just this week ECOFIN failed to come out with a common strategy and regulatory measures, or a statement on ending naked CDS trade.

    This is the same all over europe and the US. Politicians claim to be in charge now, talk about turning the corner, proclaiming the end of recession and so on, while the reality is a totally different picture.

    Meetings with the CEO’s of these banks and incompetent politicians, T-Schock’s, Bundeskanzlerin, Finance Ministers etc., in deed throughout the world have all one thing in common.

    The bankers dictated the rules of the bail out, they blackmailed politicians, like Hank the Hammer did with congress in the US, or they already have bribed and infiltrated entire governments so deeply that the question of changing legislation to dump their shit on us was just a legal formalism that needed to be taken care for.

    So who does that legal dirty work for them?

    Ok, by now I probably will be accused by some to belong to the black helicopter conspiracy fraction, but I have news for these folks.

    As seen on the UBS data, this Heist is far from over, on the contrary, the global finance web that has been spun in this globalization and used for their scams will burst inevitably rather sooner than later.

    CEO of Deutsche Bank, Ackermann personally negotiated the bail out with Kanzerlin Merkel and, kindly note, her grasp of economy and finance is as complex as Mary McJob’s grasp on quantum dynamics, zero.

    All what was left to do was to bring to paper the new laws, and here comes Freshfields, who in case for Ackermann performed this task, but not only for him.

    The same happened all over the place, London, Paris, Berlin, Washington. A genius strike in deed, by which these bankers ensured that they become the biggest profiteers in this crisis that they, and I do emphasize this, DELIBERATELY started.

    As a result, the Deutsche Bank cashed in 10 billion on the bail out of AIG, plus another 10 billion from other bailouts, and the very the same gravy train stopped at Goldmann Sachs.

    These and a handful of other banks were instrumental in the creation and excessive trade of CDS to start with, and then started around 2006 to bet against their very own papers, and when the losses kicked in, they cashed in again.

    Rating agencies and hedgefond managers turned into a subculture.

    Finance freaks, ruthless and acting above the law as they saw fit, or bending the law when they needed it, and the very same CEO’s are still at the helm.

    Simon Johnson (ex IMF chief economist) called it THE QUIET COUP in his article that I posted earlier.

    So what is the solution?

    It is clear to me that Mega banks that handle up to 2,000 billion in funds are too powerful, the do have the means to blaickmail any government. Period.

    Johnson concluded that the maximum sum being handled by a single bank should not exceed 100 billion.

    I think this does make sense, what happens if we let loose the Megalomaniacs is evident by now, they turn into finance freaks from Hell.

    Even germanies Kanzlerin Merkel, in all her wisdom, and performing a stereotype freudian slip on Television when she stated in an interview that, No bank should be so big that they can blackmail government. Really Angie? Hear, hear… I wonder if she knows Mary McJobs, we should introduce them to each other.

    Bottom line, we urgently need to break the power of these banks, yesterday. Banks should not have political influence of this kind at all, period. Then we need to put our attention to the rating agencies and the central banks. Drastic reforms are needed here as well, we know that the Moody’s of this world deliberately manipulate rankings. this needs to stop.

    But all this is not new, isn’t it? I would say since more or less 1.5 years we know all this, and here is where I point the finger, through sheep dropings twice at Mr Cowen when he presents the shamrock,


    They do nothing folks, they jabber about some technocratic bullshit, and they let the bankers continue.

    True reforms were not put in place, the banks need to be broken up in much smaller entities, and this is where we the people come in. If the politicians do not do this job, then who else can force them but us?

    Only the masses of people who are the TRUE sovereign power in all these countries, they can change that.

    If not, Abu Grhaib will appear like Monaco compared to what we will face in the next 12 month. They are still at it. and our politicians, blackmailed or willingly bribed, are doing NOTHING to prevent this. on the contrary, NAMA is the best example.

    We need to start thinking outside of the box. We need drastic actions on the streets, no violence, absolutely not, but massive and drastic actions to put a stop to this, only the pressure of masses of people will be able to break these banks.

    • LOL, of course I meant …THROW sheep droppings twice at Cowen

    • Malcolm McClure

      laughingbear: Just a thought since you have conjured a few fantasies today. Perhaps the bankers are not totally malign. Could it be that they have lost control over their own money making machinery. That could explain why they need big bonuses to remain in place, doing things their every instinct says is stupid, irrational, counterproductive and plain folly. If they quit, grab their dubious gains and head for sunnier climes without permission from above, their bonuses could be made to evaporate by those who are left behind. They walk into the bank in Barbados and ask to withdraw $500,000 that they thought they had deposited there.
      ‘Sorry sir. We have no record of that sum in your account, which shows you overdrawn by $2036.28.”
      You suppose that the bankers themselves are not subject to fraud and manipulation? Remember, their bonuses are just numbers in an electronic account. Not gold bars in a safe deposit box. If they try to switch for safety, they get given a plastic bag and are asked to leave the premises by security. Small withdrawals to fund a modest lifestyle while they remain at work are allowed of course. And you think we are being conned?

      • At a certain level, and UBS is on that, no, they are the manipulators Malcom. Sure they require Tier 1 capital which “measures” their overall strength.


        in 2009 UBS settled a US cross-border case with the US Department of Justice (DOJ) and the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) by entering into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement (DPA) with the DOJ and a Consent Order with the SEC

        You think they were forced to enter into fraudulent activities? No, they were not.

        They hold 2 billion Euro in savings for their bonus payments, while they booked a net loss of 20 billion franks at the same time.


        I am afraid not Malcom, but of course, the higher your are in the picking order the more you are exposed to criminal activities, reflected in your higher boni.

        • On a mundane note, the staff in the second biggest bank in Spain were all ordered to phone cash deposit clients about 6 months before the Big Bang and urge them to buy into the “usual products” they tout, share funds. I told them to gamble all they liked with my money but I wanted it back -in cash whenever I came looking for it.(In other words-get stuffed)
          If I had fallen for their smooth talk of “now is a good time to invest when shares are low” I would have lost about 50% of my money-cause they kept going lower and lower!!
          Bankers- worse than muggers.
          At least a mugger is up front about his purpose.!
          There should be laws to protect the public from their pimps and snake oil salesmen, in fancy striped suits,selling lies over and over again to every generation of suckers.Their philosophy is based on the Danish proverb,
          “the last fool has not been born yet”

      • wills

        Holy cow batman!!

        Malcolm we share similar viewpoints.

    • s1lverbullet

      Laughinbear, Everything you said is true I’m afraid. But most people will label you a conspiracy theorist, as they don’t have the realism, intellect, or imagination to see that the system is indeed being manipulated from week to week. Where to start…..firstly, people will have to come to terms with the fact that either most politicians in power are dumb, or they are complicit in the scam, or they have been bought off. It has to be 1 of the 3. Simple. Secondly, we should think about how the rating agencies make their money and who funds them, either directly or indirectly. I have never understood why we take any notice of their ratings in any case. We listen to a private company deciding on the safety of a COUNTRY!! Absolutely mental!! Next the Germans… It makes me sick to hear these affluent germans saying how we should not bail-out the Greeks, but it was perfectly ok in the last few years for te Germans to lend billions to Europe so we could all buy German cars and German electrical equipment. The should have kept their money to themFUCKINGselves in the first place and we might not be in this mess. And lastly, I agree that we must stop the Nama scam, but I feel we must use any means necessary!! I fear these nutters will keep going until we send them a real message of our intent!!!!

  45. Þm

    I like the above symbol .To me it signifies

    ‘the market’ .

    If we focus on the market we kill the nama virus .So lets use our new symbol


  46. Its St. Patricks day and we must reclaim the letters of his followers back then to be our own again.We have ‘today’ as a nation reclaimed our distinction above the nations of the world that no one else has done before as we have also with the colour ‘green’ taken monopoly of part of the sun ray colours thats sets us apart .We have a legacy that the Irish people must use and recognise to be their own.

  47. Investopedia

    I received by e-mail the following from the above this morning :

    A Lepracaun Leader :
    What does it mean ?

    A corporate manager or an executive who, like the fabled Irish elf, is a mischievous and elusive creature said to possess buried treasures of money and gold.

    Also spelled “Lepre-con Leader”.

    This is american sourced and who were they refering to?

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