Like you, I’ve been listening to many opinions on the George Lee episode. The one thing that has stood out in all the conversations is just how out of touch the political insiders seem to be with the rest of the population. The political insiders — the politicians themselves, party members and canvassers as well as the political pundits and correspondents who live inside the world of the Dail — speak of George’s betrayal, his petulance and something called procedure. Of his many crimes, the idea of not knowing your place appears to be a significant offence.
On the other hand, you examine the polls taken by ‘Liveline’ and the like and you get a totally different picture. The average person believes George; the average person trusts him and supports his move to quit. If these polls are to be taken at face value, could it be that the political “insiders” are out of step with the civilian “outsiders”?
Arguably we have a clear division between, on one side, the wizened, “nose-tapping” cynics who believe they know how things should be done and, on the other, the wide-eyed, possibly naive, optimists who hope for change. The George Lee saga could well be the first skirmish in a long war between those who believe the system should be defended — the insiders — and the outsiders who believe the status quo is part of the problem. One of the most significant and consistent criticisms of George by the insiders has been that he didn’t do his time. Some say he couldn’t hack it. But hack what? Hack the “slowly, slowly, don’t rock the boat” world of biding your time, playing the game and, ultimately, engineering a career based on climbing up the slippery pole. Of course he couldn’t hack it and why should he? He wasn’t voted in to do that.
Another politician yesterday spoke earnestly of learning the ropes. He suggested that George didn’t really give himself a chance to understand how the system worked. But why should he have? Surely the point is that the system is the problem and if someone with his specific talents (for economics) is seen as being of equal value in an economic crisis to another backbencher who can’t spell monopoly, then what is the point in the whole exercise? Either we vote for competence or we don’t.
To the observer, it is difficult not to conclude that George scared the daylights out of lesser able contemporaries who decided that the only way to deal with a bright star was put manners on him. So leave him out, let him cool off. Anyone who has worked in an office will recognise the tell-tale signs of office politics.
One of the classic ploys in this game is to let it be known that the person’s assets are in fact superficial and a liability for the “hard graft” of the ground war. And so it came to pass. Amazingly, another factor that emerged as a stick to bash him with is that George Lee is famous, articulate, intelligent and a great communicator — and rather than these being attributes that could be deployed usefully these are seen to be the dubious affectations of a “poster boy”, leading to slurs such as narcissism and self-absorption.
When are the political insiders going to realise that there are people like George Lee who stand out from the crowd because of the very talent that distinguishes them from others? This is why people follow them. This is why 27,000 people vote for them, precisely because they are not like everyone else. Sorry, the world isn’t equal. Some kids are better at football than others, that’s just the way it goes and the one who is better gets picked.
George Lee’s crime was honesty and having the courage to ask, why? Why should it be like this? Why should we serve time on the backbenches? Why should the best economic communicator in the Dail who has forgotten more about economics than most of our politicians will ever learn, have to sit and listen to men on his own side make things up as they go along — spoofing and clutching at second-rate notes scribbled by advisers?
Just in case you think this is one high-profile economist defending another one, I acknowledge that I know and like George Lee. We were both economists in the Central Bank years ago — so we go back a long way. I have huge respect for his talents and know that he has “living room” appeal. Ordinary people believe him because he has been both right and honest in his work over the years. What the insiders don’t understand is that he has done his time, just not in the Dail. He has done his time where it really matters, in people’s living rooms. This is his currency. It is not celebrity, it is credibility — and credibility is what is lacking in politics.
Not deploying George Lee effectively is not an academic point. Fine Gael’s “good” bank was the best solution to our banking crisis. It is a basic model used in many countries. There is no need for a NAMA; instead the old banks should be allowed to disappear and their deposits transferred to a new bank. The State is the major shareholder in the new bank and so can make a huge profit for taxpayers when it is sold. The old creditors take a nasty haircut but get equity in the new bank and they stay in the game. That’s the basic story. It is easy to sell, easy to understand and far preferable to the NAMA monster (which the IMF told the Government close to a year ago wouldn’t work).
But instead of getting George Lee to sell this idea to the electorate which he would have done in his sleep, and in so doing might have created a united front against NAMA with a credible alternative, Fine Gael didn’t deploy him effectively. God knows why. Selling this idea should have been his and his alone and the older, more established politicians should have been big enough to see that he was the best man to sell it. He is the man that your auntie believes. The trust of the aunties and mammies of Ireland is hard earned. They see through show-boaters. They remember who said what when. They remember in the last few years, George Lee told it as it was. Who in Fine Gael is going to replace him? Who is going to do things differently now?
Worse still, whether you agree with the way he departed, who — with experience — will now contemplate joining one of the established parties now? On the other hand, maybe this episode brings closer the emergence of a totally new party looking to change, not preserve the system.
An exerpt of “Haiti: Killing the Dream” – quite interesting, see Democracy Now for more analysis and interesting interview with Danny Glover.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJfQT2fM_TE
Posters.
OH look, the ECB money printers are rolling the printing presses for jailors running the jailor system in greece.
PATHETIC
My Big Fat Greek Bailout it has been called. A complete fudge. The Greek political class are all lying. The Germans know this. And for this reason the Germans are looking for seats in the various committees that collect data on Greece, so that they will know more of what is really going on.
And it will happen here too within twelve months.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1250433/Greece-debt-bailout-EU-leaders-split-euro-crisis.html
Folks, this just in: CPI to January 2010:
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/prices/2010/Prices/cpisubindices/pic_jan2010.pdf
[...] David McWilliams: Office politics snuffed out Fine Gael’s brightest star [...]
If I was to be critical of George, from the interviews I heard it seems to me that he was waiting for someone to give him the platform to perform. He had to take it but didn’t. Yes he is a great communicator and knew how to do it in the field he was in. Faced by a partry machine and all the ‘group think’ it involves I don’t think he knew how to do it. Indeed, no one in FG seemed so show the leadership or even friendship to support him. He was never going to follow the herd but party politics (throughout history) runs in herds. Gandi, Jesus & ML King had to exist outside. Obama has gone ‘in’ but change always comes from the fringes and it’s never glorious. Afterall, a prophet is never accepted in his own land. Groups come with orders and structure, they have to…look at any company. Innovators (leaders of all types) perform outside the group and eventually create a new group. Change is trendy but real change comes from a seed cast away and grows slowly. You do not bend and break the powerful, you make them irrelevant.
powerful.
{ You do not bend and break the powerful, you make them irrelevant. }
JHHeffernan -that is one of the best statementsI have seen in along time. And it is entirely relevant to Ireland today. We simply have to stop propping up those who set out continually to deceive us,and to cause us to deceive ourselves.
That’s Gandhi’s “Satyagraha ” to a tee! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha
It also approximates the famous line in the film ‘Michael Collins’ that the citizens and volunteers must act as if the Republic already existed, and then it would. Simple as.
God help us with all of those bleddy G-men (there’s PD dirt in both parties lads ) after poor aul Georgie.
I have been reading this blog for a few months now and there ain’t some half clever feckers on it.. BUT.. your last sentence just stopped me dead in my tracks.
If people don’t get that this is what happened to GL then what hope have we.
p.s. when you start the new party count me in.
For those who havent seen it, The Banksters video is now on you tube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhYMQu1BG8w
Pass it on
I just can’t understand why he didn’t rattle some cages, sure the older members would make it difficult, but that’s normal in every organisation. He could have played any game he wanted, with the media in the palm of his hand. Perhaps he’s just too much of a gentleman for such a rough trade.
Just on another topic
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/threat-of-arrests-in-anglo-probe-2058032.html
Something better come of this. Heads need to roll, someone needs to go to jail, to show the others that this cannot be tolerated.
they were given plenty of time to shred, shred, shred……..
In the context of the scale of borrowing that aflicts this country,and the fact that every week the situation brings more bad news, I think that waiting 9 months for something to happen requires great patience.
Put it this way, if Roy Kean was running the government the way he runs soccer clubs, the muppets would have been castigated, thrown out and replaced along time ago. We have too much tolerance for bullshit and excuses in this country.
What exactly have the entire FG party produced in the last nine months ? Indeed what have any of the muppets in the Dail done ? They are all sitting on their hands letting this situation get out of control.
Oooh – if a new “Reform’ party is established, it would be good to get Keano to ‘endorse’ it – along with GLee, DMcW etc…
David – A landmark article. We need something that will shake upthe entire system and get out of the cosy consensus about arguing over minutae in Kildare Street.
Basically the muppets in the Dail need competition. It is the only way to sort them out. They are all engaging in persistent PR stunts.This for me was shown most clearly when Cowen was fudging the issue of rising unemployment, and Joan Burton was laughing. This is neither a fuding issue, not a laughing matter.
They all need replacing. You can expect aligned interests in the established media and party hierarchies to tear apart any threat. This is the survival instinct. And the surival instinct amongst the inept is a bit like the survival instinct of a rat in the corner. We should expect any political movement to serve the needs of the outsiders in this country to be savaged in the media. We have seen evidence of this already. All we can do to make it happen is to protect Lee. Essentially Lee must survive and come out on top in this fight. Then the society will get heart.
Politics-particularly in Ireland is like the Civil Service.You start at the bottom.You get a start if you are a well known GAA player.You sit and wait for your older peers to grow old and as they die off you move up the ladder..
if you have a brain in your head you are not encouraged .if you are a really astute”cute hoor/stroker” type,you move up a little faster .If your father was a TD. before you will walk in to a cushy job for life.
Fine Gael dont want any George Lee types. they are as connected to big business/developers/ landowners as Fianna Fail.They dont want to let the Zombie banks collapse.
The NAMA monster will be their buddies salvation too.!
Bertie Ahern says he lives his life according to his religion and “The Beatitudes” is what inspires him
a copy of the Fianna Fail”Beatitudes” for your enlightenment:
“Bertie led his followers ,wealthy farmers,despised tax collectors, builders, speculators,developers (Jim Mansfield) and rich merchants (Donie Cassidy )-up a high mountain ,where the image of a golden calf made of pure gold was laid down ready for worship, and here they paused to rest.
He addressed them in these words;
“Look around you, my disciples…all this, I give to those of you who worship me.”
Verily I say unto you;-
“Blessed are the young people , who have been priced out of the home ownership market,by corruption, nepotism, stroke politics, and well connected builders and land speculators who own most of the available building land,ready for rezoning around our major cities.
Blessed are those who labour without profit for low wages; who pay 70% of the price of motor fuel in government tax; who suffer the highest vehicle purchase taxes in Europe;the highest alcoholic drink taxes;the highest V.A.T.taxes; stealth taxes of every kind; new rubbish taxes; water taxes(pending); outrageous road toll taxes; soaring private V.H.I. insurance “taxes”;taxes on credit card taxes,…taxes on air travel in and out of the island of ireland: all this, after 42% income tax ,is first deducted at source from almost every wage earner on a living wage.!
Blessed are those who walk in the countryside for recreation,and are hindered and persecuted; blocked by the barbed wire fences of landowners and farmers, these farmers take vast sums of the common people’s taxes throughout the E.U. Empire,-and give nothing back in return.
Blessed are the Anglers who wait all day by the lakeside –and catching nothing!
Their stocks are destroyed,their labours wasted.Patiently they endure agricultural pollution,nitrate poisoning,and legalized drift net fishing by rich men in the coastal estuaries.
Blessed are the poor and the almost half a million unemployed. They do not have quotas or licenses,like the farmers,fishermen,and publicans; to sell their goods at high prices in the marketplace; they cannot lay waste fish stocks and the salmon, with impunity, in our seas and coastal estuaries.They cannot milk or breed cattle and produce food which only the rich can afford.They have no powerful lobby to protect them from the so called “Common Market” which milks the taxpayers of Europe to enrich the well organized few.They have no secure job in government quangos,semi state companies or civil service departments.
The foolish crowds who heretefore flocked to the drinking taverns nightly and wasted their inheritance are no more-this monopoly was the stranglehold of the corrupt politicians who also govern the nation, and their cunning cohorts countrywide.Now the roads to Newry are crowded with pilgrims seeking to slake their thirst and assuage their hunger in the Supermarkets of John Bull´s kingdom.
Blessed are those citizens who endure lawlessness, greed, and anarchy, all around them; those who are the victims of crime; kidnappings, rape ,murder armed robberies weekly;those scourged by illegal dumping; illegal quarrying; illegal developments (Jim Mansfield etc) and the widespread practice of diesel laundering fraud, nation wide by political and criminal gangs operating in border territory.
Blessed are those communities where ribbon road development; one off housing; section 140 motions;- are commonplace in the councils.Where houses are quickly sold off, in the speculative frenzy of the times.
Cursed are the civil servants who are passed over for promotion, because of their refusal to obey my exile law and depart to remote constituencies ruled by our TD´s .I shall scatter them ,and their families,and their descendents, across the land of Erin to occupy the now zombie housing estates and offices, built by my cronies.
(attributed to Martin ‘Cu’Cullen)
Blessed are those who shun the local councils .Watch how they act,these councillors,- always full of their own importance; purporting to represent the common people while in reality rezoning lands for one another’s advantage; doing deals in dark corridors where money changes hands; profiting themselves at every opportunity; grasping and greedy -like pigs;travelling to foreign places and living in luxury hotels;ever feeding from the public trough and on the public purse, while devising new ways to tax the poor.
Blessed are those who suffer the injustice of elected leaders who have abused the trust placed upon them by the people.; Blessed are those who must evermore witness the spectacle of arrogant criminals ( Bertie Ahern etc)-full of bluff and bluster-strutting defiantly before the Courts,and justifying themselves daily to the Sanhedrin Tribunal, while pompous lawyers fatten themselves from the public purse in Dublin Castle.
Blessed are those citizens of the new Europe who now find it difficult to gain employment in ireland,while farmers and companies import and exploit cheap labour,under government licence,from far corners of the world .
Blessed are the victims of penalty points for minor infringements,and ludicrously low speed limits;-while the same drunken and hypocritical TD,s/ public representatives nightly traverse our highways and fill the car parks of public drinking places with almost total impunity.
Blessed are the new unemployed,as the plague of inflation traverses the land and multinational companies strike camp, and fade into the night.
But cursed are those who have sent their wealth to foreign lands (Speculators like CJ Haughey,the “Beast of Kinsealy” ) and falsely colluded with rich bankers in the Cayman Islands to avoid the irish tax collectors.
They shall wish they had never been born.! their souls shall never taste the sweet balm of true Paradise. They will thirst eternally, in the hereafter, for the life giving water of My redemption, which their filthy lucre cannot buy in the hellish Islands of the Bahamas where they have constructed their false Gods.
Happy are those who have no connection with; and who have never voted for; and who have never profited by;- the corruption,the wasteful spending,or the pre-election largesse of the Soldiers of Destiny.
Blessed are those who cherish their ancestral burial grounds,and all traces of irish history and heritage;-though it shall be laid waste,in My generation.
A false Cu-Cullen has arisen, in the South, and created an army of mechanized monsters which will enrich the farmers and landowners of Royal Meath immeasurably,but he will desolate the land, and destroy the graves of our ancestors which lie in the path of his infernal bulldozers.
The people will wring their hands in anguish as they languish daily in their useless chariots, and pay extortionate fuel and toll taxes to Cullen’s clownish comrades countrywide.
This must come to pass and Ancient Tara itself will be laid waste.
But I tell you truly,you need not despair. Now is your hour of darkness.Now is your time of suffering.The Soldiers Of Destiny will sift you like wheat,(with your own money).
All this you will suffer for my sake.
Bartholmew Ahern will take the front pew in the temple,and make great show of piety, and genuflect before the high priests, while paedophiles roam the parishes,living abominations, abusing young boys and girls
In the end it may be Labour and Fine Gael that betray you….
But your reward will be great in Heaven.” This is the Word of Saint Bertie and his anointed one, Holy Cow-an!.
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/millionaire-gives-away-fortune-which-made-him-miserable-2054476.html
Dennis the menance enterprises.
I am delighted to hear of Mr. Ahern’s conversion back to the Gospel. Halelujah Brother. Bertie Ahern has seen the light….Ahern is Saved.
Because, last October I was listening to Bertie Ahern in a one on one interview on the BBC World Service with Steven Sakur. It was an episode of the Hard Talk series. And Bertie Ahern outlined how he had been the most liberal mind ever created in Ireland. And about how he had to take on oppression from the Catholic Church and the Anglicans in the Church of Ireland as well. And he had to fight. And Steven Sackur was nodding in total approval. Clearly Ahern was a kindred soul, a committed liberal. And Steven Sackur asked Ahern whom in Ireland would have gotten the largest improvement. And Ahern replied…”well everyone…obviously some elements were not happy…but on the whole I make big improvements across Irish society….that would be my greatest acheivement….and if I was to single out who would have had their lot improved the most as a result of my tenure in public office…then I suppose seeing as you asked ….the Lesbians……I changed Ireland radically….for the Lesbians….”
And I sat there listening to this wondering in my mind…”would that be Lesbians in negative equity or Lesbians left holding ANIB shares after the meltdown ?”
Ahern sings a different tune to whoever is listening. A complete phony.
and another classic!
yes another classic bertiegraph. If it wasn’t so tragically typical of the man and his associates it would be hysterical. This guy is a crook and should have done time for what he did to ireland – may the people of ireland wake up before he becomes President – yes history tells us bertie has a habit of doing the unthinkable.
classic
This article would seem to suggest that the State may be forced into a 40% holding in AIB / BOI to get ratification of NAMA.
Or am I now getting totally paranoid?
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/update-2-ireland-to-wait-before-deciding-on-bank-stakes-targetukfocus-848a787cf7ad.html
If I’m not loosing it, what are the ramifications?
Posters.
BofI are advertising all over the shop mortgages 100,000, payback 580 euros per month for 20 years.
After totting figures i get, approx, after 20 years loanee pays bank 40,000 euros to the bank for loaning 100,000.
Not bad eh, easy money for the bank when one considers that the all the bank did for the customer to grant mortgage was type numbers into their account and after 20 years the bank trousers 40,000 euros for the bother..??!!
again, dennis the menace enterprises.
This one is for you G,
Enda Kenny & Simon Cowell on American Idol
Hilarious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrDKvOms7YA
Folks, help me, Please?
Joan Burton is asking me to reference the precise vote wheron the ENTIRE LABOUR Party abstained, before Christmas.
She is obfuscating, pretending she does not remember which vote it was.
Anyone have a link, that copped that post, please? ( I cannot find it!).
Hi Tim,
your 2nd or 3rd post in post 48 on “We ‘re all fools…..” etc. You referenced an amendment to NAMA. But didn’t say which one. My damned photographic memory (and Google ;-) ) served me well………
Ruairí, Thanks a million. That gives me a “shot”, but does not tie her down.
For some rease, Ronan and David have decided to exclude
Ruairí, I sent my response to Joan.
She has not returned.
Perhaps she does not like that I have friends like you and wills, who help me to remember what I posted?
Thanks (to you both).
ECB, FED, WORLD BANK,IMF, yes, the policies constructed in the halls of these institutions are the foundation of the peril of many.
Once of the few highlights in core positions certainly is not Mr Zoellick, or the 10th president of the World Bank Mr. Paul Wolfowitz, in deed the very architect of the Iraq war, but the former vice president, chief economist, and for what it’s worth, also economics nobel price winner 2001, Joseph Stiglitz.
Stiglitz was fired, having expressed too much critic towards the policies makers in the world bank, he had to go.
He founded IPD which is worth a closer look in my opinion.
http://www0.gsb.columbia.edu/ipd/
But that is the big stage, let us come back to Ireland and smell the roses.
Our very qualified chartered accountant, Mr. Charly Mc Greevy, now signing in as a european commissioner, his guts hated to the bone, there were plenty activities in the recent past to get rid of him, is representing our very interests to a degree.
Are we as the people of Ireland really satisfied with such representation?
Mc Greevy: Dublin , 18 September 2009
….Those who say that the Lisbon Treaty will make little – or only a small – difference to our membership of the European Union may be right. At least it is a debatable point. But in my view they are missing the real point. Among international investors – who we need to get us through our difficult economic patch – perception, if it isn’t all, it can be nearly all…..
—-
Such and more is the status quo of irish politics representation in a European context! What a disgrace!
—-
….So however alienated and angry people feel currently – be it with the government, with the banks, or indeed with the entire system – I plead with them not to bite off their nose to spite their face: Not to tighten the noose around our own country’s neck by conveying the wrong signal to international decision makers who look to Ireland as a place for possible future investment. ://:
Red light district level in a somewhat more eloquent form!
You all well remember how it was, the irish were asked to vote, and they said thanks, but no thanks.
The government went back to them and said, thanks for your vote, but unfortunately, you ticked the wrong box, let’s try that again.
Sadly, this was not a slapstick comedy, it is the flippin truth!
Democracy or strengthening privileges I ask?
Best
Georg
…P.S.
I forgot to say…. please, do not be fooled byt the wording of our commisioner, Mr Mc Greevy would not be capable to phrase the sentences he read there, of course not, they were written for him, by other people, he was just the performer reading out loud….
@ Spare Change
I liked the Kenny skit, a good note to end on.
Here is one of my favourites, Tony Blair and the internship at the Investment Bank (Harry Enfield) – nails it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZEav9A801A&feature=related
The sentence (from his resignation statement) which for me sums up Mr Lee is this :
“The role I have been playing within the party has been very limited and I have found this to be personally unfulfilling.”
Since when does saving one’s country from economic disaster play second fiddle to personal fulfillment?
David, your article of Dec 23rd likening Patrick Honohan to Noel Browne hit the nail on the head for me. Here is a man trying like Noel Browne to fight a scourge from within the system, however rotten.
Mr Lee, by his own admission, couldn’t even get within the system to fight it.
What exactly do you want George Lee to do ? Go on hunger strike ?
George Lee is an economist. Before Lee went into the Dail there was only one economist in the Dail. (Baby Brute). And that economist got it wrong far more times over the last ten years than George Lee. Richard Bruton was the FG economist when FG dreamed up the Celtic Snail campaign. Richard Bruton got it wrong several times in the last ten years. And in consideration of what David McW, Moore McDowell, George Lee and others were saying, Richard Bruton has a frequent habit of being behind the curve on what is actually happening in the real economy.
George Lee spent 9 months in the Dail. During that time the guts of 100000 people got laid off, the guts of 60000 left the country, and the state overspent by 15 Billion Euro. We went down several notches on the credit rating system. We signed up to Lisbon out of fear and no great conviction about anything. We also seen more debacles coming from the D4 (the banks, the ISEQ companies), and D2 (The state, quangos included). The entire economy has been hurtling out of control. There is no leadership. And there is a serious lack of economic literacy in the Dail.
How much patience do all these people who think that they own George Lee want ? He made a very valid point. A lot of people who are supposed to be trying to fix the problem do not actually give a shit ?
The politicians who keep telling us that they “care” do not care. The whole thing is a complete farce. And now that we know that it is a farce we can start regarding it as part of the problem not part of the solution. Which opens up the possibility that it might get fixed.
Which probably explains why there is such a strong effort being made to ridicule George Lee. Because he showed up the system. And it’s beneficiaries have to preserve it.
Why are people not queuing up to call Deirdre de Burca a tantrum thrower ? She actually was actually in the policy making process. I mean she was one of the best pals that Gormless ever had. There were rumours rife that de Burca would be the next EU Commisioner. And this morning on RTE they wanted to know why she did not get a place on the staff of MGQ. That would be hilarious. Two wasters who know nothing about “Research” deciding such matters for 400 Million people plus. mentor MGQ. She then expected to
Maybe Quinn knew that 99% of the Dublin electorate did not want to send de Burca to the EU that de Burca was a step to far. In other words on this occasion FF were having enough of the GP practicing nepotism. Anything is possible here. Anyway the PR statements from the GP is full of the usual moral high ground chasing maneovres. We have all that sussed out now.
I am amazed at how people queue up in this country defending authority when authority fails. This country is going into the drain and authority has to be defended at all costs.
I had an employee once, let’s call him – I dunno – George.
He was very well qualified in theory for the task we wanted, to come up with new ideas and materials for training courses where he had scored really an extraordinary mark in the exams that followed.
On his first day, we really did our best to make the guy feel welcome, after all we expected great things from him, and that meant him working long hours on his own initiative to come up with new materials. We took him out to lunch for his birthday, took photos of us clapping him on the back in the office, really boosting the guy’s confidence, or so we thought. Turned out we were actually boosting his ego, which was not what should have happened.
Soon, cracks began to show. He started showing up late for work after working later than average the previous night. He was not energised by his work, but fatigued by it. He began to get stroppy and distant from people who politely corrected his various minor flaws (leaving things untidily, not getting to the point in a hurried conversation, ignoring a client at a critical juncture etc). The sort of criticism that other employees took on board humbly and in the right spirit, that helped round off their corners.
Next, he began to have flights of fancy as to his importance and sense of entitlement without having delivered anything that justified his salary. Without having shown that he could perform the daily drudgery inherent in every job, he began to suggest that he might transcend this by opening a new office in another country (no plan put forward as to how this might financially achieved let alone justified n the long run), why he needed to accompany my company co-founder on a business trip that had no relevance to his work. I gently reminded him that he has a task list a mile long that was getting longer from day one, and he had been given feedback on a list of issues that he needed to work out to improve to the standard expected of him before he could be given this sort of freedom.
His one initiative outside his brief was to get on internet forums and hassle people to use our courses, which I always thought woudl be a bda idea, but let him attempt it as maybe he knew mroe than me and I shoudl let him go at it. It backfired badly, and he wasted his time. I’m OK with that, really. gotta try new things. But he didn’t learn that maybe he could sometimes be barking up the wrong tree when it came to judging the reality fo the complex market value chain, just because he had mastered a single aspect of it, and presumably wished to join us to learn about the rest of it, as we were battle scarred (and equally qualified as him in his strengths).
Then one day, we had a team meeting, where I asked him to focus on a particular task I needed him to do, it was the reason for him being hired, it was really strategically critical and required someone with a high level of intelligence to get done. He ignored me, and started banging on about another idea he had that had no basis in market driven reality. I asked him not to interrupt me and he kept going on, this time looking to my co-founder, who is a much more indulgent person. I spoke quite loudly at him, as he was really messing up the meeting dynamic and he was clearly off on a flight of fancy). He ignored me and I had to shout at him (he was sitting next to me) to shut him up. Guess what finally shut him up? I said “we have high hopes for you George,..”. Bingo, ego mollified. He’s back on message. Though sadly didn’t translate into results
He, though supremely qualified on paper in one aspect of the job, was no good in dealing with people who were not telling him how great he was and listening in rapt fashion to whatever he had to say.
Then, he began to blame his clients for not being the right fit to him. Some clients, he claimed were great. it was others that just weren’t the right fit for him. He began to ignore people who didn’t flatter him ever, and would not socialise.
At his review I told him that he clearly wished to find a way to shine, and he emphatically agreed. I understood. but the problem was, he was not interested in shining through teamwork.
Finally we lost patience, and decided to fire him. He found out (by reading someone else’s emails), and angrily resigned anyway. He went to great pains to spin that we had forced him out, that we didn’t recognise his talents, that we were using him for something he was not interested in doing… etc etc etc. the whole freaking system was ot of order, apparently.
We just fired him and moved on. a week later he hacked our website using an old password we didn’t think he had. He denied it, and the cops finally got a confession out of him.
Anyway, bottom line : while the George we are all talking (not mine) about didn’t do anything illegal at the end, he did behave spitefully. It’s clear that he managed his own expectations all along and skilfully played the martyr once he found out he was inadequate. He retreated into himself (as many many many people do once they feel that this job is person, and is all about their legacy – I have more stories on that, from my Chamber of commerce) and was not a team player. And then, in a flash, he left it all behind him, he had gone too far down a path that was not the collective path of the team he had joined. Time to change the game, and blame everyone else.
I partly understand where all this is coming from because I was once a little like these guys, but I copped on.
It’s terrible to hear hear the phrase “office politics” used in the article above, because it’s really a question of “teamwork”. i.e. compromise. Know the meaning of the word? You’ll learn it fast enough once you really start to work with someone, not just sit around patting each other on the backs in the latest meeting of the commentariat.
NOBODY wants to loose someone who can pull their own weight, and then begin to excel. FG are not that stupid or dysfunctional.
The political system is very basic, and is the same in every aspect of human endeavour, the ones we like as well as the ones we don’t like. The whole freaking system is no out of order
My father once told me a joke about a mother whose son joined the army, and couldn’t get his marching right. on the day they all lined out, he was going left right as the rest were going right left.
“They’re all out of step except my Johnny” she exclaimed proudly.
David mentions the “vast majority” of people “believe” that George was “right”. Those three words indicate what all economists should recognise as aspects of contrarian behaviour, namely when a group of people who are not aware of the underlying facts behind a phenomenon or system make decisions based on emotional input, they are almost always decisively wrong in the opposite direction, and over time ARE always wrong. There are OTC financial trading companies that make astonishing sums from this simple fact.
So, George is not as unique or special a tragic character as many would like to believe. There are fifty George Lees out there in all our lives, they just don’t get on television.
I know a guy who worked for a company. He had a team leader once. This leader patronized every one of the team, disregarded everything they suggested. He wasn’t a high flier but but he had ‘done his time’. He had a tiny inferiority complex about this that meant he couldn’t handle the experienced ones. He always told the best people that they had potential but they had to ‘do their time’ . All the while, he was taking credit for their work. It was very frustrating.
My friend left. He said about 50% left, the ones that couldn’t stand his patronizing waffle. In the end he was surrounded by those who didn’t mind being patronized because the salary was above average and he paid above the grade. The problem was these people could never get around to telling him bad news. It got to a point where problems were never fixed because everyone was afraid to be the messenger. Nobody wanted to lose their cushy job.
That company is bankrupt now.
More stuff as if we need it
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lee-passed-up-privilege-of-place-on-economic-trip-2060321.html
Now….honestly….how much time do you think they will spend talking about economics…..would this have anything to do with Valentine’s Day…accomodation in Paris being expensive this weekend….
So the FG economics policymakers are going to Paris to learn about economics….aren’t they just great….clearly there are some things you cannot learn from a book from Amazon dot com.
and of course….there is a RUGBY MATCH on this WEEKEND in Paris.
Of course it is purely co-incidence that the FG ‘policy-machine’ are going to Paris on this weekend, of all weekends in the year…..
+1
Valenitines day, Paris, Rugby, & Economics as a footnote.
FG = Makes me sick.
Well it will be seen as a relief to the banks and the business establishment that IBEC are discussing the management of the economy already with FG. Even before Kenny becomes Taoiseach.
After all what is the point in paying your membership to IBEC if you cannot get results.
IBEC – proactively getting influence at the cabinet table for your business. Because there is no need for a customer when you got the taxpayer bailing you out !!
@ Nostradamnusalltohell :-You said “David mentions the “vast majority” of people “believe” that George was “right”. Those three words indicate what all economists should recognise as aspects of contrarian behaviour, namely when a group of people who are not aware of the underlying facts behind a phenomenon or system make decisions based on emotional input, they are almost always decisively wrong in the opposite direction, and over time ARE always wrong.”
You mean, like our elections and referendums? Yes, you’re right there. Very perceptive of you. Points even more conclusively that with FF, FG and LAbour, we’re consistently being sold a pig in a poke. Just as George Lee was and Joe Behan was. Well done. Dots well joined by you. Are you less in conflict internally now?
……And the Day After …the day before ….
and so Aristotle said :
‘ the good of man must be the end of the science of Politics’.
@ John ALLEN – Would you mind elucidating a little on Aristotle’s quote? Interesting one, would welcome your thoughts/insights on it
Folks, de Búrka resigns from Seanad, claiming Green Party is an “extension” of Fianna Fáil:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0212/deburcadstatement.html
I wonder with what methods she will be ridiculed now as well.
Let’s see, not a team player would be a good start. Political Prima Donna, does not understand how irish politics works, inability to follow well established and proven procedures ____ <- fill in blah blah
Followed swiftly by strong expressions of confidence from senior members towards John, and of course, the party stand united and everyone will be disappointed.
This is interesting, she was always rolled out for the photo op, the public statement is a loaded gun.
Dan Boyle is the key to the Greens, if his conscience is stirred by this and he decides to pull the plug then we could have a very interesting situation indeed, unlikely as he probably needs the Seanad job.
There is that old X-factor again, the unpredictable/unknown element.
There must be some serious fire fighting going on in the Greens and FF now to try and hold the centre, I hope it gives and the people get their chance to act at the ballot box, come on Dan, do what’s right, pull the plug, give back democracy to the people and end the cosy FF cabal.
“Dan Boyle ….conscience” ?? Once again, I have to ask where is your self respect man ?
Dan Boyle is a pretender. The whole thing is an exercise in self-preservation. This is the fool who said that the government would save the banks, but not the factories after the closure of Dell.
The only thing the GP and FF are fighting over….who gets which state jobs….
Deco
Indeed, you may be well right, probably are (75%)………….time will tell……………………
I think Deirdre nailed it:
—-
It would appear that holding onto office and to seats have become more important to the party than holding on to its fundamental political purpose.
—-
In the past local elections the greens were slaughtered left, right and center, for the very reasons Deirdre resigned now. Nevertheless, being in government, they are responsible for the unsuccessful vote of no confidence that was brought forward, responsible together with the bribed independents.
Ok, let’s stay positive, who calls Deirdre?
Now we are three already, David, George, Deirdre.
And Tim, Joe Behan, The two Sligo boys and most straight County Councillors.
Looking up.
It’s obvious though that Poibli Nua needs a bloody good spin doctor first and foremost, before we’re accused of eating babies or being in league with blasphemers.
de Burca was running out of options for her political career. I would have to hear her speak about why she did it to know. Because these carefully prepared statements never tell us what we want to hear. In fact these carefully prepared statements only tell us what we they want us to hear.
The Sunday Times article concerning Gormless appointing failed GP loyalists to plum state jobs means that she cannot rely on that as an option any more.
As I said at the time – if you want to bring down the government – forward that link from the Sunday Times 12 days ago concerning GP nepotism. And that will bring about all sorts of PR statements from the GP which will break up the government eventually !!
David,
Amazingly, another factor that emerged as a stick to bash him with is that George Lee is famous, articulate, intelligent and a great communicator — and rather than these being attributes that could be deployed usefully these are seen to be the dubious affectations of a “poster boy”, leading to slurs such as narcissism and self-absorption.
When are the political insiders going to realise that there are people like George Lee who stand out from the crowd because of the very talent that distinguishes them from others?
He would be the only popular broadcaster and media figure to have had this experience now would he?
I think unless you have some knowledge or insight in to the mind of Lee which you are unprepared to share here, its rather early for you to be commenting on the why and how of his departure. If, as it apears, his political career was always going to self destruct, why go out like this? Why, after all the fanfare of his arrival, did Lee go dark for six months? Why not go all out and blatantly risk the censure of his party?
Of course Lee is not the story, the story is the utterly broken Irish political system, and politicians and wonks alike scrambling for advantage and to protect their positions, and added to that a lot of ego-driven drivel. Its also true the the Irish finally managed to punt one of the good guys over the castle walls only for him to politely hand over the explosives and walk out the back door. I think this merits more examination than you give it.
sorry, para 3: he WOULDN’T be….
George Lee is symbol power.
His mere presence in the dail brings into sharp focus the true realities behind the front of house pantomime.
The pantomime actors prefer to have the front of house posing as the truth and hiding away the backroom realities at play.
“His mere presence in the dail brings into sharp focus the true realities behind the front of house pantomime.”
But that’s just the thing, it doesn’t. For you maybe, but its not as straightforward for the average chap on the street. Some of the comments on Lee have really been over the top, but he set himself up as a target for this.
I don;t know the guy and I am only vaguely aware of his activities in FG (which in itself is telling) but assuming his capability to deliver the goods as advertised, why not cause a shit-storm and get booted out? Was he worried about political interference with his fall-back position at RTE? I think these questions deserved to be asked, all we have right now is speculation. Fair play for our host for bending reality a bit and writing this very supportive article but he must realise he is not being entirely honest.
Absolutely liam, one ought to always put question to the facts or non facts in order ro discover the narrative for oneself.
I disagree though on your point on D’s lacking in honesty.
I reckon D’s article is amazingly honest all things considered, such things as how slippery and cunning and sly the ‘powers at be’ controlling all the levers of power are in reality which it appears george witnessed first hand up close in the dail behind the panto diversion.
George refused to participate in the Dail ‘front of house ‘ pantomime.
He sat in his office and stayed out of the dail ‘panto’.
After a while his silent dissent became odious to the panto performers and george became persona non grata or something like that.
Just like in school george was ‘ICED’ out of the forum and ignored and blocked in his modus oprandi to carry out his duty and do poltiics using the political machinery as it was built to do which is for it to be used for the ‘common good’.
Working for the ‘common good’ in todays market system is a no no. The elites and controlling interests and cronies are complicit in operating the banking and political and media machinery to fit in with their interests above the interests of the ‘common good’.
The ‘common good’ which is what george trumpeted.
George killed the dragon.
George will be beatified if this keeps up (despite the mounting evidence to the contrary) – what about the OECD meeting where he could have met the ‘leading players’ in Europe, come on guys, you’ve got to give up this insanity on Lee.
The guy didn’t want it and did what he had to to get out of Dodge………
George Lee is symbol power.
Ah St George………….and the Dragon!! It has a nice ring to it.
http://www.catchpenny.org/slay.html
Well, the dragonkeepers are out of luck.. because the peasants are on to them and even pitchforks will do folks. “Git up that yard, bourgeois canvasser …….! “
I strongly suspect we will find, on mature recollection, that the Dragon killed George.
I’ve decided upon my viewpoint on this and i assert george killed the dragon.
The political machinery is under the control of special interests.
The special interests interests are invested in rigging the markets.
The markets of most interests to theses people lie in where the profits are the best gains.
The best highest capital gains are to be made with land.
So, this is why we now have NAMA.
NAMA is a continuation on this ‘best gains’ from land SCAM.
This extracting of easy fast gains from land is programmed into the political and market system.
The wealth created by the free market system is re directed by the banking – political machinery into the pockets of the interests that control the operation on the levers of power.
George Lee proved to anyone who mis thinks that it is written in the stars that politics canot be done according to virtue in Ireland, that one must enter into politics and be prepared to be even a little corrupt, george finally nailed that myth into oblivion.
George killed the dragon.
Nobody can no longer do ‘corruption’ in irish politics under the odious excuse that it is impossible to do it any other way.
George proved this wrong.
George killed the dragon.
George s re invention of irish politics will inspire more politicians to follow in his footsteps and travel the new foot path george opened up, a foot path leading toward politics exercised in servitude to the ‘common good’.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0212/breaking96.htm
Hi David,
The George Lee episode is an interesting one for us all.
I previously wrote:
“In terms of George Lee, I think there are probably many ‘wrongs’ on both sides, and naivety. It is true, if George really wanted to be a politician and was unhappy with FG, then there was nothing to stop him becoming an independent TD. The fact that he didnt speaks
volumes and whilst FG may be circling the wagon a lot, George is probably only telling it how he sees it and not really as it is.
For all, its been discussed before, but the ONLY way to change political parties in Ireland and the political system is TO FORM and VOTE for a NEW PARTY.
Even Pat Kenny recognises that turkeys dont vote for Xmas. I dont doubt George Lee’s bona fides, I had a lot of time for him in his role in RTE and I met him once, and I respect his economic opinions and ‘commentary’. He thought his move into FG could have changed
things, and maybe this is where he made a mistake. It aint easy.
So, forming a NEW PARTY which wants to change the system wont be easy either. But if no-one does, the status quo will remain.”
So thats where I stand. I dont think this is an insiders v outsiders issue per se. George, being part of the RTE aparatus
was part of the insiders to a certain degree. There are multiple facets to being inside or outside.. I however dont think in general we have that insider and outsider for each individual person – so it depends, a real Irishism, on peoples links, positions, relations, locality, social circle, circumstance and chance, etc, etc. You realise that private schools and any
type of elitism even if merely perceived promotes insider-ism, which perhaps can be better described as croneyism in
parish Ireland.
Some comments ….
You wrote:
DavidMcW> The political insiders speak of George’s betrayal
But answer me this, why didnt George become an independent TD or take on the mantle of forming a new party? His resignation to me indicated he didnt want to be a TD. That is altogether
different than resigning from FG and from an ‘insider’ party.
> The average person believes George; the average person supports his move to quit.
This is based on an RTE poll, right? Also, we have to be careful, as RTE are clearly stage-managing and helping George with the PR and delivery aspect, giving him right-to-reply, YET avoiding head-to-head debates. It would be interesting to hear Leo Varadkar and George Lee on Newstalk for example
or at one of your Leviathan meetings.
> The George Lee saga could well be the first skirmish in a
> long war between those who believe the system should be
> defended — the insiders — and the outsiders who believe
> the status quo is part of the problem.
First skirmish? I have wanted to change our system for decades yet the populace at large is fooled into believing that we have a truly democratic system. Look, the people voted No to Nice
yet were asked to vote again, voted No to Lisbon yet were asked
to vote again. “We, the sheeple ….”
Have you ever heard political analysts and politicians themselves state how smart the people of Ireland are, and how wise they vote, yet at the same time they dont want to give details on matters in case it confuses the ‘plain people of ireland’. Well, its not news, but the populace is NOT smart! Wake up and smell the arabica beans.
> One of criticisms of George by the insiders has been that he
> didn’t do his time. Some say he couldn’t hack it. But hack what?
> Hack the world of biding your time, playing the game and climbing
> the slippery pole. why should he? He wasn’t voted in to do that.
Hold on, was he not voted into FG, a mainstream party, for many years the 2nd biggest party in Ireland and recently polling as the biggest. A party that espouses the political system and
the climbing of slippery slopes and the full playing of “the game”. He signed up to that. The people voted for him not as
an independent but as part of the FG party machine.
> Surely the point is that the system is the problem
I agree, it is, so why did George join FG???
> Anyone who has worked in an office will recognise the tell-tale
> signs of office politics.
I agree, I have no doubt that perhaps neither Richard Bruton nor Leo Varadkar were too enamoured to have to step aside for a media star. However, it was not all “office politics”.
> another factor that emerged as a stick to bash him with is
> that George Lee is articulate, intelligent and a great communicator
But we saw very little of George on the steps of Leinster house giving his opinion. He perhaps was learning to be part of a team and to learn to speak as a party. In politics, a classic example
is Martin Mansergh and Eamon O Cuiv, and Wille O’Dea who are wheeled out to defend the FF position and say “Look, this is unpalatable but we have to
do it” etc, even IF they disagree with it in principle etc.
Thats what they call hard neckism. They can do it because they a) protect their own ass b) protect the party, etc, which is more important to them than the policy or the principal in question, and c) they dont have scruples. Poltics is a dirty business and is not a place full or morals, even low ones!
> Some kids are better at football than other.
Well maybe some in FG are better at politicking than George was!
> George Lee’s crime was honesty
or naivety?
> I have huge respect for his talents
me too
> He has done his time where it really matters, in people’s
> living rooms.
I would question that. Time can only be spent at the coal face, or talking to people that are at the coal face. So, running businesses, running countries, etc. Commentary and opinion like
yours, George’s, mine and everyone else here is informed not by the delivery but by the lessons learned and how they can be best applied. Perhaps the best economist we have in Ireland with the best assessment of the ideas and solutions we need is bad at communicating. One thing is for sure, they wont have their sole learnings from a few readings of white papers and published research fom Harvard or Yale and may not be a media-only economist.
> “good” bank was the best solution to our banking crisis.
> There is no need for a NAMA; instead the old banks should be
> allowed to disappear
Agreed – lance that boil! :-)
(you remembered well FurryLugs!)
> Fine Gael didn’t deploy him effectively. God knows why.
I would agree with that, but perhaps they didnt trust George to communicate the party line and perhaps at the heel of the hunt he couldnt.
> The trust of the aunties and mammies of Ireland is hard earned. They see
> through show-boaters. They remember who said what when. They remember
> in the last few years, George Lee told it as it was.
I think you put far too much credence on the “mammies of Ireland”. They are not as Einstein-like as you may think and indeed will know more about whats happening in Carrickstown, Albert Square and at the Rovers Return than anything remotely to do with politics, economics and running the country. Test that theory if you want. They may notice George’s tie more than his policies!
> Who in Fine Gael is going to replace him?
Richard Bruton and Leo Varadkar are already in place.
> who — with experience — will now contemplate joining one of the
> established parties now? On the other hand, maybe this episode brings
> closer the emergence of a totally new party looking to change, not
> preserve the system.
Well, I hope it does. I’ve written about it many time, you have, others have, YET, we are still waiting for a viable NEW PARTY.
Like the PD’s (at the start), I think it would be useful if current disaffected (and non-wacko) incumbent TD’s would join,
from the full spectrum. So, FG, Labour, SF, GP, Indo’s even credible FFers could join. After all, it will be votes from people who are disaffected from those parties that will vote in the NEW ARMY, erm, I mean NEW PARTY.
In terms of a name,
how about THE NEW PARTY????
Go for it David, give your tacit support to a new movement and we may see some change .
We can but try, right????
MK1
leo varadkar, debates with himself.
Another excellent post in a series from DMcW (although I’m note sure about the last one which went over my luddite head but it’s probably right also), all of them hammering home the essential truth that this is an insider-outsider society where the political establishment works for the former. (I always ask myself: how would they handle this in Mexico or Peru?)
Lee stood in my old constituency and I would definitely have voted for him although I’d never given FG a preference in my life. And I certainly wouldn’t have felt cheated by his resignation.
I remember the big news last year on my return from our annual Budget Holiday (I was shocked when they went out of business) and caught Lee on VB with Alex White (LP) and other political ‘professionals’ teasing him as if he were the new boy to the school. “You’ll have to learn to listen to people now your in politics, George…”
This all reminded me of when at 16 I returned with my brother to the local scout troop and a new patrol was formed to accommodate us and where I was made patrol leader (simply because I was older). Some months later a ‘Second’ from another patrol voiced the anger and resentment of him and his fellow seconds about this. I had been parachuted in and they had all been waiting for the chance to become patrol leader. I’d jumped the queue. They were all middle class kids and I had never previously been exposed to this kind of thinking, which I had never suspected 15 year olds of being capable of (of course, if we hadn’t joined there wouldn’t have been enough boys to form a new patrol in the first place).
(By the way, the speaker’s elder brother had been in my class and was the slowest reader I have ever had the misfortune to listen to. Yet by some miracle he had managed to scrape a pass in his eleven-plus. The miracles of coaching…)
Ivan Yeats was particularly annoying on Frontline the other night. I have a number of Late Late moments, not the usual cliches that are trotted out from that mediocre vehicle, but which were eye openers for me personally. I mentioned one before – the English author who had had the nerve to write a book about men’s/ fathers’ rights and was lynched by the panel, the audience and callers in, with the Cruiser playing a leading role. The episode involving Yeats was the night an English farmer came on to state quite simply that he was already a very wealthy man and that if the EU were going to insist on paying him additional huge payments under their schemes then he wasn’t going to refuse the money but that he really didn’t need it. He then explained why already very wealthy Irish farmers didn’t need it either.
It was at this point that Yeats and his associates with him in the audience sparked into life. I suppose he was only doing his job defending the indefensible but it was a lesson learned all the same.
On the issue of Lee’s perceived character weaknesses I can just picture the thousands of bar stool gurus holding forth on this topic. The Irish seem to have a weakness for imagining they can see behind the facade and yet they always seem to get it wrong!
In fact you could bet on it being wrong – a fact exploited by Yeats’ bookies for assured profit. Then we have the connected public view of politics as a game where the voters talk and talk about the personalities, cast their votes, and sit back and admire their handiwork on the telly, complete with cheering, buck leaping and (on occasion) singing. We see the winners on the screen. And the losers are…?
So in summary I think this one is quite easy to call. There are Insiders and there are Outsiders. And there is a political class widely agreed by a range of observers as diverse as Raymond Crotty and Breandán Ó hÉithir to be worse than useless. They can talk and talk, so said the latter (The Begruder’s Guide to Irish Politics, last line), but at the end of the day their words have no more effect than a fiddler’s fart on the Cliffs of Moher. Or, to use a French quotation for the benefit of the Offally lads (and in case Eireannach is reading), “Tu causes, tu causes, c’est tout ce que tu peus faire!”
Merci beaucoup monsieur, son la vie d’un hermite vers le bas ici. Comment très clairvoyant de vous nous identifier hommes d’Offaly. Si seulement Brian Lenihan lu comme vous font et si seulement le Biffo futé parlait français. Quel dommage.
Folks, interesting survey (and comments) on Myhome.ie. “Keep her lit, Madam!!”. There’s life in the aul dog yet!!
http://blog.myhome.ie/post/Mortgage-arrears-Should-the-state-and-financial-institutions-accept-liability.aspx?cmpid=blog1202
state + financial institutions accepting liability = PAYE taxpayer accepting liability.
Now don’t be pullin that francais out of your bag o’tricks……that’s for the likes of dem fancypants Brutons and not for the likes of Ruairis and Georges……pounds, shillings and pence would be a start. Then we’ll talk yoyos…….
On a side note, normally I am a rather clam person, living in Donegal helps I suppose but something that REALLY ticked my box was when the new rules for expenses were published this
week, did you folks get that point here:
—-
….mileage and accommodation will remain a matter of trust without any proof being handed to House authorities to support claims.
… Attendance at the Dáil will then allow the Deputies to claim for travel costs and hotel expenses incurred.
—–
Mandatory attendance of minimum days spend:
Well, firstly, the sign in method was dumped in the european parliament, because MEP’s signed in and right away left the building, just to make claims, go figure how it would work in Ireland.
Now, bare with me for a second, we have hospitals closing for lack of 1-2 million euros funding, right?
Can someone explain to me the following? Under the new rules:
—-
Varying levels apply for Senators, TDs and Ministers – but a TD can get €15,000 a year unvouched and audit free…
—-
If the provided figures buy the citizen information found on Dail Eireann are correct, then we currently pay 166 TD’s, that would be 2.49 Million Euros dumped into their pocket for nothing, unaccounted for, no receipts required, just another of those privileges I was talking about earlier.
2.49 million pocket money for TD’s, but we are closing hospitals?
I do not know what the expenses regime is in the public sector.
But in the private sector – if you do not have the receipt, then you do not get the refund. It is that simple. These rules concerning Kildare Street are ridiculous. The politicians are boasting about this being a reform.
No actually it is an attempt to insult our intelligence. And we can see through it !!!
Precisely! No receipt = no refund. Even this simple rule is not applied in the so called reform of expenses.
Not that long ago, TD’s doubled their income by claiming expenses, in deed they earned around 120K per annum and claimed for pretty much the same sum again. Official figures available under the freedom of information act showed that TD’s claimed over Euro 10,000.000 inbetween december 06 and december 07 alone.
To make such a figure more understandable, this means that in average each of them cashed in Euro 5,000 PER MONTH and tax free, on top of their 120,000.
Many of these politicans who abused this system for a great number of years, scamming taxpayers money are still in their seats, governing you and me and loading debts by the billions onto our children.
Exactly, and if you’re unlucky to loose your receipt or forget to ask for a receipt then you loose out.
G – I am not good at elucidating Aristotle ….I am reading the Beano at the moment .Malcolm and Furrylugs are great Orators that might help crystalise my message .For the moment I show you a page to assist your query:
http://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/nicomachaen.1.i.html
George Lee Ineffectual – FG Inept – An Bunreacht ignored – Sound Economic advice ridiculed – This is Political Peristalsis – Think that one through before breakfast.
PS – Was more of a Cicero man meself.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Or indeed to quote Accius –
Oderint dum metuat
Seriously Guys – Stop the Waffle – Please make your points without the surrounding tosser-speak so that other people can read some faint sign of intelligence in the comments.
Obviously I’m not blaming everyone but reading other peoples verbal masturbation instead of some sharp political commentary is really off putting.
There’s the business-end of David’s articles and there’s the waffle end. This article’s shelf date is nearing its end as the latest trick comes sailing in on the Sunday Business Post or what not.
Sometimes some of us can get them ends mixed up but sure sometimes Brian Clowen and Brian lenihan get recession / depression mixed up with economic recovery…………
Welcome DH. Valid point but as Ruairi says, the tail end of the blogs tend to soften out a bit. Read from the beginning to see cut-throat argument pro & con George Lee which I’m delighted to say, didn’t descend to the lowest common denominator. It’s a kind of safety valve where anyone can join in the debate, from many opposing viewpoints, yet democratically return for the next topic of the day.
This is supposed to be a quasi-economic blog but our host is fairly flexible as regards the purely political commentary. As you are aware, verbal masturbation, an interesting concept, is often an attribute of the political beast. Otherwise we’d all be blathering on about GDP, GNP, CDS, XYZ and all that other unintelligible economics Esperanto.
PS – Have you heard about the upcoming Wobble on Dun Aengus?
Bit scary looking at this. Our National Debt Clock, At the rate the debt is accumulating, it is set to double by a moment in the month of May 2013.
http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php
As the Green Party become more FF than FF themselves, the Saudis, kings of black gold, turn GREEN :-)
Ah if you live long enough, you’ll see it all …….http://www.uncommonwisdomdaily.com/the-oil-kingdom-goes-green-8349
So, are the Greens merely helping FF tip their cap at EU environmental legislation (Yes) or have they any ideological bent left at senior level?
Again, some have said here that in George Lee’s case, 9 months was a short time. in FOUR years, Ardnacrusha was researched, and implementted, taking appoximately 25% of the new state’s budget (Admittedly NAMA is a similar feat but with less desirable consequences for all citizens)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ardnacrusha#Background
“In 1924-25 the new Irish Free State’s Minister for Industry and Commerce Patrick McGilligan commissioned the engineer Dr. Thomas McLoughlin to submit proposals. Dr McLoughlin had started working for Siemens-Schuckert, a large German engineering firm, in late 1922, and produced a scheme that would cost £5.2m. This caused considerable political controversy as the new state’s entire budget in 1925 was £25m, but it was accepted.[4]”
When will we see brave implementations by ‘thought-leaders’ on such a scale? What is government for? We are are in an economic battle for survival, we have some domestic moves left but we are not employing them…….that would seem to point to poor leadership and that a mutiny is in order….
http://www.spiritofireland.org and many other schemes to spend publicly while increasing our dividend-producing infrastructure (water, broadband) would do much to see us better into the uncertain future. Instead of relying solely on an EU structure that may not survive in its current fragile guise.
Fascinating quote from the London Financial Times on that Wikipedia page on Ardnacrusha: -
“The influential London Financial Times was highly impressed with the result, commenting:
They have thrown on their shoulders the not easy task of breaking what is in reality an enormous inferiority complex and the Shannon Scheme is one – and probably the most vital – of their methods of doing it.[12] ”
The seeds of our Celtic Tiger were also both signs of and incentive to an increasing and justified pride in our accomplishments; a virtuous cycle as it were. The downside of any emotion is its excess (See the Hermetic principles, the Kybalion) and of course, by not tempering our justified pride, we developed arrogance, which Deco rails constantly against and which lead us to believe we (the insiders, I mean) were Masters of the Universe. and that is our downfall. Not knowing the ‘middle way’ Not tempering the excesses.
With such a small islan, with such a wealth of talent, ability, experience and gutsy confidence, we should be best in class at everything, or thereabouts. We need to look the foundations of our State and ask how such great achievements occurred. The largest hydroelectric scehem in the world for a number of years, inspired by Tesla’s Niagara. The peaceful transition of policing to unarmed Gardaí. These are huge achievements. A functioning democracy out of the ashes of family feuds and murders. Are our current political set holding the keys of such alchemy or are they bereft of such mastery? I would say almost to a TD, they are bereft. Victims of the Tiger and its sloth, like almost all of us, to a citizen.
“If I were Homer that pleasant roamer,
I’d write a poem on a noble theme
To tell the story and to sing the glory
Of that wonderful project, the Shannon Scheme”
Only song I know!
We’re gone soft – the vision and balls that it took to built Ardnacrusha was remarkable. Hard to believe it was the largest in the world until the Hoover dam came along. We’re now in a light-weight era where the path of least resistance to the spoils of state is first priority. Turbidy light and all the other wafflers in RTE are now valued above everything else. They don’t produce anything and yet they’re the highest paid in the land – we’re idiots and we deserve to go bust.
@ Ruairi
further to your comments on peasants action
you may enjoy this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA
Watched it G last week, at your initial behest !!
Brought back memories. Of Python, not peasant days. Myself & Furrylugs quaff fine wines and ports as we muse here…….
Good man
not sure if you’ve seen this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nE5o79AOXAw
Heh Heh……
Oh what might have been…………
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBb7a8oPQaU
@ Ruairi
further to your comments on peasant action
you may enjoy this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA
Actually, I am quite in the dark about GL’s economic policies. Not through lack of interest.
He got exasparated on Prime Time once (when he was still with RTE) and was just going to tell us what he thought of the Govt’s policies and why – only for Miriam to step in and shut him up. Well done Miriam! The only f******* thing worth listening to that night and you had to ruin it!
According to the following link
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sam-smyth-fledgling-george-flees-the-playground-of-fantasy-politics-2054263.html
(which corroborates some of my sweeping assertions above in so far as ‘looking silly’ equates with ‘failure’ in the politicians’ delusional world of macho posturing) he argued with Lenihan at the MacGill summer school about taking billions out of the economy. Apparently Lenihan made him ‘look silly’. ‘His FG colleagues covered their eyes and groaned.’ My question: why?
See for ex. the couple of paragraphs about macro economics in this link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/24/mervyn-king-quantitative-easing-keynes
“I fear there is a gulf between those who grasp the importance of macroeconomics and those who don’t… Give me economists every time to the kind of banker or businessman who, because he is successful in his chosen area, chooses to lecture us on the economy at large…
“Mike Geoghan, chief executive of HSBC, may be great at his job, but in saying ‘the government can’t spend more than it actually collects in taxes. People can’t live without savings…’ he was giving us a first-class demonstration of the widespread ignorance of the central insight of macroeconomics – that the government has to step in when the private sector withdraws if recession is not to become serious depression.”
Also, remember the storm of spin that greeted the letter of the ’46 economists’.
I get the impression that the opposition are happy to just sit there. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. While the country goes to hell. And we are supposed to be appalled because GL couldn’t hack it. Because he looked SILLY?!!
To my (untutored) eye the country’s present economic policy appears to consist half of bankers’ lies, spin and waffle and half of journalists’ “What this country really needs is…” hand-me-down amateur pet theories. And does anyone seriously claim it is actually WORKING? What do you think the unemployed would have to say?
Ray Crotty on our 2 main parties: Tweedledum and Tweedledummer. (and he hadn’t a good word for Labour either)
Great comment Coldblow.
Can you imagine how disheartened our host must feel sometimes or Prof Lucey and the other 46.
Like I said above, Political Peristalsis – everything gets eaten up and inevitably ends up – well, I’m sure you’ll figure that one out for yourself.
Again – great comment.
Curiously FG are still carrying Lee’s MacGill Summer school address on their website: http://www.finegael.org/news/a/772/article/
Lee said (and I was there): “It is a mistake, however, to proceed to correct the sudden and catastrophic imbalances that have opened up in our public finances at the pace that is now being planned. The Government’s objective is bringing our general Government deficit back down to 3% of GDP by 2013. This has been forced upon us by the rules of Europe’s Stability and Growth pact, the rules of fiscal management that came as part and parcel of membership of the euro. Under normal circumstances these are good rules, designed to underpin the integrity of the single currency. However these are not normal circumstances………..The best cure for the fiscal nightmare that we are in is the resumption of robust economic growth. Such economic growth means more activity; more activity means more revenue for the Government and some light at the end of the tunnel. ”
It was hard to take Lee seriously after that. Lenihan is being proved largely right in his policies, which above all are directed to restore international confidence.
Very odd. No comment at all between 8.22pm and 22.52pm.
Either;
1. I’ve scared everyone off
2. The site won’t take any more
3. Everyone is sick of me
or
4. You’ve all been lifted for Blasphemy and they’re on the way for me.
Furrylugs: If, like you and me, we are sitting at a computer on a Friday night* looking to have a discussion about George Bloody Lee, then we are pretty sad cases, n’est-ce pas?
* “Viernes cultural” en español.
Heh Heh.
Formidable y mucho caliente, as the Nun said to the Bishop.
I have restrained meself from opining on young Lee. All will become apparent before too long methinks. More interested in Gerry Adams having a crack at Ryan Tubridy about Tubs Grandad being in the IRA. Thats once a week now that someone reminds the bould Ryan that he’s not exactly politically neutral.
Smug little Git.
I’m off out for Porter. If I could find Tull McAdoos Place over the Mountain, I’d head there but minus the ‘puter.
Furrylugs and malcolm.
I’m busy working the phones to find sponsorship for chisler on late late to get monies to stretch his legs.
Gerry Adams would have done that for free one time ago.
is it ok to LOL on that one,. hopeso!!
Ridicule beats violence in politics any day.
Folks, Ha! (will read you all later, but just Dropping this in, right now):
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0213/1224264352046.html
So its back to the Pheonix Park and a re-grouping of the troops for “na glasrai”. I suppose they can dream ahead to their next great eco-battles, thats assuming that anyone believes that they have a shred of credibility left. I’ll be nice to them and post this training video for them……Take it away Gormless, Private Ryan, White………. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FmN-pB8ikQ
De Burca was right to go but she made one critical error – timing.
Her resignation will be directly associated with the shafting by M-G-Q, her ‘insights’ in the Irish Times seem hollow in this light and is being picked up on by posters there.
Her act might just force something within the Greens, but Gormley-Ryan-White refuse to get it – principal went out the window when they said yes to government – Gormley’s unwillingness or inability to hammer home The Green (and not his) agenda (conceding on Tara and others made him look ridiculous) sealed their fate.
Game-set-match come General Election time.
‘Green politics’ might never recover.
@ Furrylugs
First time I ‘watched’ the Late Late Show last night, not intentionally, it was on the house I was visiting.
I have never seen a worse interview than the one with Samuel L. Jackson, thought Jackson would go for him when Tubridy said “give me that” and said “you are at the LOWER level of star status”, to which Jackson looked wide eyed, to follow Jackson with the guy from Nationwide – well let me just say RTE IS A UNIVERSE ON TO ITSELF!!
I wondered how Jonathan Ross would have handled it, far lighter, more humour, and would have probed Jackson’s drug past, the turmoil of his early years, marriage, re-birth, massive Hollywood career and now fundraising activities, all we got was ‘do you know Colin Farrell?’ Is this what we are paying a million quid a year – Tubridy seemed totally unprepared, disinterested, a tendancy to personalise and turns aggressive when challenged (sign of insecurity).
The Adams interview – not sure what I can say – to focus it an allegedy case of sexual abuse, which is currently passing through the courts and for Gerry to entertain the appalling questioning left a lot to be desired on both sides. It was obvious aimed at party members who are asking serious questions about the handling of the whole affair – Adams did not get across a convincing defense.
Adams, although courting a stafisfaction rate of 37%, seems like a spent force, to be fair he was never allowed to explore his statement that “now is exactly the time for Republican politics” which I took to mean in the broad sense of the term and not as Tubridy seemed to interpret through the narrow prism of Northern politics.
Having seen nearly every RTE interviewer tackle Adams on IRA membership and whether ‘he has any sleepless nights’ over the Troubles (Tubridy) which Adams correctly stated was glib way of putting it.
Again Tubridy took the ‘calling out ‘ personally and hence the quick interchange about the IRA membership and Tubridy’s grandfather (who Tubridy was gushing about in the programme “who do you think you are?” – so fine when it suits apparently), I didn’t think it was such an unfair comparison, but yet again the Tubridy coudn’t spar, and the interview descended into nonsense, with Adams quickly exiting the stage – it was more info-tainment that anything remotely interesting – poor all round, we continue to suffer as a viewing public.
All I needed was to see George Lee come on with ‘woe me’ tale :-) – only kidding guys think I have said enough on that front!!!
I suppose it is what it is, G, a mediocre imitation of an American format designed to keep intelligent programming off the air.
Blatherspeak.
Left Ireland in the late eighties and steadfastly refused to believe the “new, modern, forward-looking” hooey being offered up to 2007. Still under the heel of the church and the bagmen, the best way forward is to grab those with international experience to provide leadership. Only those with that external view know how poorly the people have been served by the ruling classes since ‘independence’.
If Lee’s departure strengthens the desire for change, it will be have been a good step.
The Church lost it’s power in the late 1980s with the various scandals and it’s own internal demographic crisis. But it is still rolled out as a root cause of every problem from tooth decay to financial madness in the IFSC. And this has a very useful purpose. It directs people to make them look at the wrong source of the problem, and let the real source of the problem. We have to accept ourselves that we have a serious problem and we cannot blame Rome or Westminister. We have become the most liberal society in Europe and become a post-Catholic country. And somehow or other the promised happy ever after existence has turned out to be fake.
Irish management and organizational culture is rotten with nepotism, sloppiness, amatuerism, corruption, incompetence, and sheer arrogance. And every few years this sort of ‘event’ arises. We had it in the Keane incident in Saipan. We had it in the Bertie Bowl. And now we have it again in the George Lee tell tale episode. John Allen – one of our contributors testified to the Gardai concerning irregularities in the banking system in the late 1990s. And the institutional powers of the state were mustered into shutting up, and trying to ‘break’ him.
The FG ‘leadership’ (sic) are having a Parisian Pissup at the moment. And it is not covered by the media. Officially they are there to learn about economics from the OECD. They had an economist in the party who wanted to tell them all about economics. But the likes of Kennylite, Hay Brain, Slovenly, Here’s Lucinda and Baby Brute already know it all about economics. Oh….yeah….and there is the minor matter of them timing the visit to Paris with St.Valentine’s weekend…..bring along the spouses….and also getting the rugby international in as a plus. George Lee is not to be trusted because he opted out of this ‘love in’.
FG consulted with IBEC (the employers ‘representative’ body group – or the oligopolists market rigging lobby group in my mind) a few weeks ago. This means that FG has got the thumbs up to run the country.
The way we will chang society is by each citizen getting as much indepedence one by one, and then making all the BS from the establishment irrelevant.
We need wholescale institutional reform. But it will only come from free citizens. And it will only come when the power of the institutional media is completely undermined.
Folks, Constantine Gurdgiev doesn’t think much of the DoF plan and it appears that he is getting more support:
http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/
Look lads, forget about FG and GL and the rest of it. What we need is good journalistic integrity protected by the law…Iceland are taking a lead…http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8504972.stm
not only will they get to host all the datacentres, but be the leaders in honest content and protected by law. Too good to be true? Too good for Ireland maybe?
Dealing with Greece’s debts, the EU is approaching the end-game. See Evans -Pritchard in the Daily Telegraph and comments therein:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7216363/Will-markets-call-EU-bluff-on-Greek-rescue.html
I think Adrian’s 11:20 comment could be prophetic:
“Expect the imminent bankrupcy of other countries in the Eurozone to be followed by others (like Britain and Sweden) that lie outside EMU. The EU will then be in a position to make an offer that cannot be refused: join a federal state or starve to death.
So I think we should look at Greece as not just an unexpected crisis but rather as a move in the end-game of the chess match between the EU elite and the citizens of Europe. ”
Say hello to Ireland,— the New West Virginia.
Eh….no actually….Ireland the New New Jersey…
Americans are calling comparing California to Greece and to Spain. New Jersey a state with everything perfect has blown it under a mountain of largesse and waste. A Tamanny Hall Party in control of both New Jersey and Ireland for decades.
Posters.
Doing a little digging on greece over the week end and some interesting intel popping up.
Greece enforced an ID card last year for all.
Gov are banning any cash transactions over 1500 dollar, forcing all onto credit card usage.
Check this video clip out on russia to day more to greece situation than mainstream media reporting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCe80hsx-ig&feature=player_embedded
Heres the reuters link on the 1500 cash transaction ban for 2011 in greece.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61824V20100209
BANK DEPOSITS
“Deposits in banks outside Greece are exempted from audits of their origin if they are repatriated within six months of the passing of the tax bill and are taxed with a 5 percent rate”
That stinks. 5% is a small price to pay to clean up dirty money switched out of the jurisdiction. It’s legalised money laundering.
If it’s allowed by the ECB, they must be more desperate than previously thought.
Very bizarre law in my estimations.
HAs an air of experimentation about it.
Is Greece a testing ground of some type for the central banking controllers to usher in the next chapter.
Jaysus – not too happy about Ireland / NTMA getting into bed with Goldman Sachs. GS don’t have ‘clients’, they have ‘counterparties’ – they’ll happily pimp our our debt for us, but their prop traders will short us at the same time.
Posters.
Another goldman sachs bit of dastardly and mutterly going on here rigging votes.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1250382/Goldman-Sachs-suspected-rigging-bank-tax-vote-Richard-Curtis-internet-campaign.html
wills, all great links. The knowledge-inferno is heating up. We have to continue to enlighten people about what is really going on.
Many more woke-up this last week, with G. Lee and De Burca calling-them out.
Let’s keep at it!
Goldmine Sacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMc6KyM_CrE
Goldmine sucks…