Has Fianna Fail destroyed the Irish middle class? If the answer is yes, then this recession will have considerably more dramatic lasting effects than even some of the most realistic observers suggest. The reason for asking this question is that the huge debts incurred by the broad middle class in the property boom can’t be paid. And with no coherent mechanism for individual mortgage default, the Government is putting bondholders before mortgage holders.
Fianna Fail has placed the middle classes in a ‘debtor’s prison’ and, what is more egregious, it has given the middle classes the bill for the mistakes of Fianna Fail’s developer mates because it is obsessed with keeping the banks afloat in their present crippled state.
This ‘debtor prison’ approach to financial mistakes will bankrupt the middle classes. Today the average Irish family owes €132,000 to the banks. This huge debt overhang, taken together with tax increases and cuts in real wages plus the prospect of families supporting their unemployed children who are living at home, and what we are looking at is nothing less than the shattering of the Irish Dream.
The Irish Dream, like the American Dream, is based on the notion of a progressive conveyor belt of prosperity whereby each generation becomes better off than the generation that came before them. It is an idea rooted in the expectation of progress and the hope that aspirations can be translated into real results, traditionally with the help of increased family investment in education.
As Irish families moved from being predominantly single breadwinner to two income households, we didn’t get richer, we got more indebted and this debt made us feel rich. Feeling rich, we borrowed more and more, cheer-led by Fianna Fail.
This was the Ahern/Cowen conveyor belt. The deal was simple: we Fianna Fail, will keep the house party going and you will feel richer, safe in the knowledge that the next generation will be able to afford the silly prices because the unregulated banks will make the cash available to them. You just vote for us and take the cream. The banks will get the cash because we are in EMU and we will never again face a credit constraint.
This is how the middle classes started to become enfeebled. It began in 2001/2 and went into overdrive in 2004. The Irish Dream of prosperity was a sham and worse still there was no Plan B. No one thought about how we would react when or if the money stopped flowing. Would we have provisions for the inevitable default? Who would come first in the crisis, the people or the banks’ creditors? Without a coherent plan, the same Fianna Fail Government just stumbles from crisis to crisis, hoping the middle class who voted it in has infinite resources to pay for the mess.
But we don’t. We are broke. The middle aged, middle classes are rocked by the sudden unemployment of their children (30pc of our under-25s are unemployed) and the collapse in value of their second home. On top of that, their pension funds — which were invested by charlatans in the shares of Irish banks — are now worthless (and after the nationalisation of the big two, they will be wiped out altogether).
So the “two income”, middle class family in Ireland — as in the US — ends up on a knife-edge. The only way it can maintain its status and ensure that its children have a better opportunity is if Ireland finds a new economic blueprint to kickstart employment. But we are stagnant at best, going backwards at worse.
Without significant job opportunity and income opportunity, the middle class has only two other avenues to maintain its living standards. The first is to sell its assets and the second is to borrow more. But it can’t sell its assets because its assets are houses and these will continue to fall for a few years.
Selling now, even if it saves money over the longer term, will crystallise the losses and leave the average family with a huge debt to the banks. So the natural tendency is to hope that something will turn up. But what if it doesn’t?
The other option is to go back to the Ahern/Cowen model of borrowing to get rich. We know that doesn’t work and anyway it has been supplanted by the Cowen/Lenihan model of the State borrowing in order to try to protect the already decimated shareholders of the banks. This leads to NAMA and the errant folly of betting the country yet again on the hope that the property market will recover to make the bad balance sheet of the banks good again.
But even looked at from first economic principles, for the Fianna Fail plan to happen, the banks have to lend out money. But the middle classes don’t want their money (even if the banks had it) because they are stuffed with debt anyway. In short, the broad middle classes still think that if we do the right thing, things will turn around.
But what if they don’t? What if the middle classes of the likes of Korea, Malaysia and Poland compete with us in a way they they didn’t in the 1990s? What if they are as educated as us and are half the price, hungrier and, most crucially, without the useless debts we have built up?
What happens to the Irish middle class then? It shrinks is what happens. It gets weighed down by unpayable debts, living in a “never-never land” of an overvalued currency and insurmountable debts, tied to worthless assets (houses) in a place where the working population is falling. Given that the middle class provides ballast to society, this is a dangerous thing.
Fianna Fail is well on the way to destroying the very class that put it in power in the past three elections. Extraordinary times demand extraordinary solutions but more of the same has been advocated. Like the Irish Home Rule Party in 1916, denial abounds and a vacuum emerges.
Here’s some Raymond Crotty stuff. Apologies David/ Ronan if it goes on a bit. If I could get it on Google Books I’d just supply the link. Regular posters will be used to this and can just scroll down to the next comment. I’m not arguing that his proposals should be accepted (they are very radical and arrived at from his own particular experience as a self-taught farmer, overseas agricultural adviser and economist) but I think it’s interesting that he identified many of the issues currently exercising people now, that we’re not just in our own bubble here.
Crotty’s proposals:
-Taxing land, rural and urban, up to the point where property in land ceases to have value. Only those who use land efficiently would be able to pay the tax.
-Taxing bank deposits at a rate approx. equal to the difference between the rate paid by the banks on deposits and the rate charge by banks for overdrafts and loans. “The proposed bank tax would destroy the capitalist colonial created malign bank interest, just as the proposed land tax would destory the malign landed interest.” “Taxation will be excessive when the banks, which have profited inordinately from, and have contributed importantly to, the undevelopment of Ireland, are forced into liquidation. The need to maintain a banking, or post office giro system, that is adequate to effect commercial transfers and to mobilize and direct voluntary savings into the market-determined most productive use, limits the potential revenue from taxing the banks.”
-Maximise revenue from govt-created quasi-monopolies by taxing them – this will result in all citizens having equal access to the trade or profession concerned, subject to the payment of the tax, to being of good standing in law and being adequately qualified.
- Scrapping existing taxes on labour (PAYE and PRSI) – would reduce the cost of labour.
- Radical reduction in the size of the state, including health and education (relying mainly on private provision) and welfare payments abolished.
- Payment of a national dividend to all citizens irrespective of what they do.
Here’s a few quotes (Ireland In Crisis – c. 1985).
” Incorrect Factor Pricing
Undevelopment… is a failure of production relative to needs, so that more are worse off and/or fewer are as well off as formerly. I has also been suggested that capitalist colonialism, in all cases, has been the ultimate cause of undevelopment. Its operation has resulted in inefficient production and in generating needs that expand more rapidly than the capacity to meet them…
The cause of low output in the former capitalist colonial Third World in general, and in Ireland in particular, have been seen to be the inefficient use of resources. Irish land now produces little more than it did 140 years ago. Irish capital has been prodigiously wasted. Half of Ireland’s labour has never been employed in Ireland. The ultimate cause of this inefficient resource use is a social order which retains, out of its original context, critical elements of the West’s individualistic capitalism. The proximate cause of inefficient resource use has been incorrect factor pricing. The cost to landowners of holding land has been minimized by first freezing and later abolishing land taxes or rates. Simultaneously, the attraction of holding land has been enhanced as a result of the accumulation of population and capital in neighbouring continental Europe, to the markets of which Ireland has gained preferential access by joining the EEC…”
“Capital has been virtually free to the politicians…”
“The corollary of low cost land and capital has been high cost labour…”
“The heritage of capitalist colonialism, like infection with an incurable disease, persists in all of the 138 or so former capitalist colonies. The remarkable durability of this heritage is everywhere attributable to its profitability for powerful, entrenched interests that are part of it. Irish landowners profit from the the capitalist colonial institution of property in land…”
“The Irish banks have profited enormously…”
“Irish politicians have profited from the great enhancement of their patronal powers through the disposal of borrowed funds. Trade unionists have been able to secure privileged positions in the scramble for livelihoods in a country where there have been livelihoods for only half those who sought them. Innumerable bureaucrats and functionaries profit from a capitalist colonial heritage that has secured for them permanent and pensionable employment in a world of uncertainty. The majority who lose by the preservation of the heritage of capitalist colonialism, are coerced, in almost all cases except Ireland, by power-based, extremist right or left wing governments. In Ireland those who lost emigrated.”
“The low cost of holding land, the low cost of borrowing capital, and the high cost of employing labour in all thte former capitalist colonies are major elements of the capitalist colonial heritage. Everywhere this heritage results in inefficient land use, the waste of capital and the unemployment of labour. Production in all the former colonies is depressed by this incorrect pricing of the factors of production.”
…
“The retention of an inappropriate system of factor pricing in Ireland as in all former capitalist colonies, as well as serving the powerful entrenched interests bequeathed from the capitalist colonial era, also owes much to persistent intellectual imperialism.
“The concentration of power into the hands of Irish politicians necessitates a costly apparatus of state. This arises from the patron-client relationship between politicians and public. It takes such forms as the provision of cars, drivers and security guards for senior politicians, comparable to the original fascisti… Or it takes the form of a clamour to extend to extend the resources available to Dail members to enable them to monitor better the state’s burgeoning activities, which they have brought into existence.
“The return of power to the people, which will accompany the national dividend, will strip power from the state and from the buropoliticians who operate the state. Even the most senior politicians, under these circumstances, will have no more power, authority or status than the mayor of a substantial town now has. A situation similar to that which obtained in England 60 years ago would be appropriate. :The prime minister Ramsey McDonald, who had no offial transport, walked to the end of Downing Street to catch a bus or taxi to his destination. Given the much reduced role of the state and of the burpoliticans who operate it, it would be feasible and desirable to reduce very much the cost of such items as the presidential establishment, the oireachtas (houses of parliament), the office of the taoiseach, and to reduce also the cost of the services provided for these institutions by the other arms of government.”
…
“The changes proposed are, first, the establishment by appropriate fiscal menas of factor prices that reflect economic realities and social priorities. Factor prices now preserve individualistic interests that are part of the capitalist colonial heritage and that are socially destructive. The establishment of economically correct factor prices will cause resources to be used efficiently. It is proposed to distribute the social surplus that will accrue from efficient resource use as a national dividend, paid equally to everyone on the voters’ register and resident in Ireland. These measures would effectively undo the Conquest. They would replace an inefficient and iniquitable social order with an efficient and equitable one and they would secure a livelihood for all the people of Ireland in Ireland.
“Repudiating commitments: The measures proposed involve a unique exercise of the sovereignty that is the concomitant of political independence, for the purpose of casting off the debilitating heritage of capitalist colonialism. The measures proposed are perceived to be the means by which a sovereign, independant people, responding to a unique challenge, can save itself from continuing, and now accelerating, undevelopment. An exercise of sovereignty of this nature cannot be bound by the past, any more than it can bind the future; except insofar as the present deems it expedient to accept present commitments. Sovereignty implies the rejection of what Thomas Paine called ‘the vanity and presumption of governing beyond the grave [which] is the most ridiculous and insolent of tyrannies.’ The imperative need to escape from the present situation makes it expedient now to reject commitments made by those who in conducting the affairs of the Irish state have sought to broaden, deepen, enhance and preserve the colonial heritage.
“The exercise of sovereignty now requires the rejection of the commitment by past sovereigns of the exclusive right of some individuals, their heirs and assignees to the use of Irish land (by which commitment most of the Irish are excluded from access to land); the commitment to others of the exclusive right to create and allocate money [he is referring to the banks]; to others the exclusive right to sell intoxicating liquor, to provide transport for hire, etc; to others the right to receive interest on, and the repayment of, money that was advanced to politicians who used it to buy office and left no assets to service the debt. The exercise of sovereignty requires the rejection of the commitment to others of the right of permanent and pensionable employment in the public service. The justification of this exercise in sovereignty – if such an act ever needs justification – is that the commitments mentioned have caused the undevelopment of Ireland, as similar commitments have caused the undevelopment of all the other former capitalist colonies. Only this exercise of sovereignty can ward off a crisis of unparalleled severity in the affairs of the Irish people; a crisis that threatens to hurl Ireland into a chaos comparable to any witnessed in the most disturbed and distressful parts of the Third World.
“The repudiation of the public debt, of tenure of public office and of state and quasi-state pensions is an exercise of sovereignty that perceives these commitments to be excessive, unreasonable, ‘the most ridiculous and insolent of tyrannies’, and a barrier to the efficient and equitable reorganization of the economy. The proposed reorganization should result in most of those who lose by the proposed repudiations – including non-government employees whose pension funds are invested in public debt – gaining more from their share of the social surplus, or the national dividend, and from the better demand for labour. Only those with exceptionally large claims on public funds will lose more from the repudiation of those claims than they can expect to get from the reorganization of the economy made possible by that repudiation. Exceptionally large claims on public funds imply exceptional responsibility for ensuring the conduct of public affairs in a responsible manner which provided reasonably for citizens’ needs over a sustained period. The present debacle clearly indicates that Irish public affairs have not been so conducted; and, to that extent, those with the largest claims on public funds have most grievously failed in their responsibility. The scale of the individual’s claim against an inefficient, iniquitable and corrupt state is also the scale of the individual’s responsibility for the present condition of that state. That responsibility more than cancels any claim in equity for the loss of rentier incomes from public sources.
“Repudiating public commitments, as well as removing the ability of politicians to borrow money and therefore to waste it, will also destroy the permanent and pensionable character of public employment, which is attractive for many. Against that, under the circumstances posited, there would be a very great diminution of the role of the state and a corresponding decrease in the need for public and semi-public employees. An adequate supply of persons of suitable calibre would almost certainly be forthcoming to discharge the duties of a greatly diminished state, notwithstanding the loss of permanent an pensionable character of public and semi-public employment. Indeed, it might well be that persons of a superior quality would be attracted to the public service than are now attracted by its present character. A high preference for permanence and pensionability is not characteristic of the world’s achievers.
“An exercise of sovereignty that included the repudiation of debts incurred by non-mandated politicians and held overseas might generate a potentially damaging overseas reaction. The day passed, with the Suez incident in 1957, when metropolitan powers dispatched warships to enforce repayment of debts incurred by former colonies… But since the flooding of metropolises with petrodollars in the 1970s and the vast expansion in lending to the governments of former capitalist colonies to which that has given rise, there has been increasing nervousness about the global consequences of a general defaulting by debtor states in honouring these debts. An explicit statement by Ireland of its intention not to service either internally or externally held public debt might provoke reaction of an exemplary nature aimed at discouraging…”
…
“Raising the cost of land and capital, reducing the cost of labour, and transferring decisions on spending money from the buropoliticians to citizens, as proposed, should greatly increase Irish economic efficiency. This would be manifested, among other ways, by the greater competitiveness of Irish goods and services on home and export markets…”
“Punitive action against Irish exports by the foreign holders of Irish public debt would, however, remain a danger…
“…Arguments could be advanced in relation to foreign held Irish debt similar to those Keynes put to the victorious Allies with regard to German reparations after the Great War of 1914-18. If the bankers are to receive interest and repayment of the funds that they lent irreponsibly to Irish politicians, who spent them without creating productive assets to service the debts, then Irish exports cannot be used to pay for current imports from trading partners. A choice is unavoidable between servicing the debts of profit-hungry, irresponsible, metropolitan bankers, or buying the goods and increasing the exports of metropolitan countries, and expanding employment in those countries…”
While I’m at it, just in relation to the Irish middle class, the composition of Irish society a century ago was very different from that of Britain (which had a large working class). In Ireland the proportion of farmers (big and small), shopkeepers and professionials as a proportion of total population was far higher.
The following quote from Crotty (again!) re the situation 100 years ago is revealing:
“Discontent with British ‘welfare statism’ [the Irish Nat. Party opposed Lloyd George's progressive 1909 budget] which threatened Irish property with the ogre of socialism , or the difficulty the brightest and best of educated Catholic youth had in securing high office in Ireland were not of themselves adequate grounds for secession. [WW1 conscription was] They were irritants that kept alive a drift towards secession which, once the key issue of property in land had been settled in favour of the Irish Catholic bourgeoisie, was otherwise of a desultory character. Irish nationalism during these decades was mainly concerned with cultural matters; matters that were the preserve of poets, dramatists and visionaries and did not impinge on crucial bourgeois interests.”
Anthony Cronin in an article in the Sunday Indo. referred to the intensely materialist character of Ireland in his younger days.
Think worth quoting this testimony in full, appeared in the Irish Times yesterday, I personally think the landlord should be arrested for exploitation.
Lyndsey Crowley: clerical officer, Chief State Solicitiors Office:
“I came out with €402 per week. It was €430 last year but from January I am down €28. I rent a basement flat on North Circular Road. My rent is €166 per week. When I was finding it really hard to make ends meet last year my landlord and I came to an agreement that if I did an hour and a half cleaning of the common area in the house every week that I would get a reduction of €21. Now I pay rent of €145 per week.
“It is not ideal having to do that cleaning every week as I have spina bifida scoliosis and I have titanium and steel rods in my back. I cannot afford physiotherpy.”
The other three testimonies were equally hard to read. p. 8, Irish Times, 27.01.10
G,
Do you have a link for this article? Thanks
I typed up from the paper, probably not available online, will type up the other three, one each day………………
G – I agree in substance with what you say. However , it is not the remit of The State to collude or acquiesce in Crime with or against the Bank .The fundamental rights of citizens and children come first.
JOHN ALLEN – that is as we have seen the theoretical position but it is far from the reality of what actually happens and has always happened.
The citizens and children are not cherished – they are only useful in terms of their economic utility otherwise they are surplus to requirements and must be hounded, belittled if on welfare or driven out via immigration, this is neither a Republic nor a demoracy.
No but in order to get obedience from the citizens, lip service gets paid to the constitution. Just like Article 45.
Money is cherished – especially by those who have no economic worth and who focus on working their way up the hierarchies in the system to get access to money.
Well put G.
Children are indoctrinated from the word go with vaccinations toxifying the immune system weakening their bio chemistry and crippling cognitive functions and from this point the educational factories move in and condition the children into automaton consumers and strip any independant thinking out of them and whatever gumption is leftover is smashed into smithereens by the school bullies and autocrats overseen the concentration camp.
Precisely, having come through the car wash you succintly described, I can testify to its veracity and have the mental scars to prove it, and you know what I don’t give a f**k that I don’t speak Irish, I had a candidate for the SS for a primary school ‘teacher’…..I wondered where the Minister for Education was as his bully bat splintered yet again on the back of one of my working-class classmates…..can one find any peace in this world or do you just keep getting pushed until you are forced to act?
G.
i reckon the trick is to peel the layers of this central banking system that goes back into history peel the layers back in a forensic type analysis a columbo type analysis a sherlock holmes type of analysis and the scam been pulled on the scammed will be exposed.
Heeeeeeeeeere’s Dr. Doom again,
“Down the line — not this year or two years from now — we could have a break-up of the monetary union. It’s a rising risk,” he said.
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/doctor-doom-warns-on-future-of-euro-2035749.html
“bond vigilantes” now there is a new one.
Yes. Dr. Doom is pointing out that Greece might be a current pre-occupation of those concerned about the strength of the Euro – but Spain is the elephant in the ECB room. Roubini clearly does not trust either the Spanish banks or the Spanish government.
This will cause us serious problems also. Basically we have two years to get out of the PIGS category. Because if we are in the PIGS category when the Spanish economy and banking system implodes (and I say When because it is unavoidable), then we will be brought down into the drain. Of the four we are the only one that has any chance of getting out because we can drop the failed banks and accept deflation early instead of building up debts trying to defeat deflation and end up losing.
News Update – the Commissioner this evening pleads with the public to assist the gardai in crime prevention .I agree with his message .
I know what I suffered when I was arrested in my actions in prevention of crime by the Commissioner .I believe he is the best Commissioner and I will act again in crime prevention should the occassion arise .I strongly advise others to follow the same.Crime rules unless we are prepared to stop it and to Stop It Now.
Several people seem to think that accepting “head shops” will progress the country.
The last thing Ireland needs is more dumbing down. Our intellectual potential needs to be grown not smothered in a haze of delusion. We have had nearly two decades of delusion, and it has produced a net disaster.
It would be better for our society, if we concentrated on a more healthy and far cleared approach to fixing our problems, than taking pills to allow us to run away from them.
Apart from anything else I can’t imagine the East Asians in their leaps forward deciding that it is progressive to increase the supply of mind altering substances.
Some ideas are just plain stupid. And the idea of increasing the drug addiction problem is one of them. We need to fix the authority problem, and stop driving people to this sort of delusionary escapades, when reform does not happen.
I heard Minister Mary Hanafin & Minister of State Dara Colleary attempt to justify waivers on having to pay the minimum wage. It all boiled down, apparently, to inability to pay, and preservation of employment, and they named sectors such as catering and agriculture as qualifying for this special waiver.
Mary Hanafin said on the Sunday Supplement (i[m paraphrasing) : ‘it comes down to whether you want a job or not’.
The ironic thing is that they didn’t include the most glaring sector in terms of inability to pay – the government sector.
Nor did they pinpoint the true root of the Government pay problem, which is not the minimum wage, but rather the lack of a maximum wage and a runaway headcount. In terms of reductions in costs, they should be looking in the mirror. Nice for them that they can steal from our children’s productivity, to overpay themselves today.
Bizarrely, as well, the Irish Government is thinking of underwriting loans to ‘viable’ companies. This is strange. If a bank deems a loan to a company to be a risk they don’t want to undertake without an underlying guarantee, why should a government deem the same company to be ‘viable’?
Finally, introducing the latest member of the double-jobbing club ; Mr Saturday Night chatshow himself – Brendan O’Connor.
If you’re unemployed, and are genuinely trying to pick yourself up from your bootstraps, rest assured ‘Official Ireland’ (to rob a dunphyism) doesn’t give a damn about you.
Paddy
When the Spanish branch of my family come over to visit, they always query why a guy who looks the way Brendan does gets on tv.
I wouldn’t personalise it to that extent.
I will say, he hails from Cork and yet while hosting ‘The Apprentice’ he managed to slight the people of Knocknaheeny, a people who are well used to taking knocks and slights, and seeing underfunding and contempt from public officials, a place as small as Cork and you have snobbery, arrogance and disadvantaged areas, it beggars belief.
For O’Connor to take a cheap shot at decent, honest people, struggling even more to make ends meet speaks volume of the individual. I won’t be tuning in and if I meet him on the street I’ll say the same to his face, time people were pulled up in this country.
Typical of the sort of nonsense that gets shoved on us as ‘journalism’.
I am not paying my TV licence for this sort of crab. TV3 won’t show this sort of nonsense because they want to get every viewer that they can get.
Apart from that why is an unemployable gobsh*te like Brendan O’Connor deciding whether or not other people should be hired or fired.
Yes-class is a problem in Cork. But if you really want to see a dysfunctional problem with class try Dublin or Limerick. Both are highly dysfunctional with regard to the class issue. Much much worse.
Again Paddy, some excellent points.
I have to say also the ‘maximum wage’ is a wonderful concept, should be applied across all sectors including RTE, senior university administration and academics, political bodies, semi-state etc
There are two Irelands, ‘official’ and ‘unofficial’ – I hope like a previous poster that something gives and people do something about all this instead of laying down and just accepting the status quo – it is maddening, where is the Republican spirit, we like lambs to the slaughter, no one says it is written in stone that we have to have a president on 300k plus expenses, or a Taoiseach on 230k plus, plus or Dail members with property empires, private businesses and directorships – they are paid to be public servants and not to treat the Dail as a personal atm!!!!!!!!!!!
Not a stone’s throw from where I work there are people living in impoverished dwellings, if they can be called that, their children play on the street, amidst the dirt and squalor – there ‘apartments’ never saw an upgrade, a lick of paint………..it disgusts me to see such poverty and those children, born into it, with little to no chance of getting out of it, a vicious cycle, and Micheal Martin, Minister for Foreign Affairs, with 3 pensions and a fat salary, supposedly the Minister for the city – and the situation replicated across the country……………I’ll say no more, its giving me high blood pressure.
People criticise Adams and McGuninnes, and sure terrible decisions were mad and terrible things happened, but they refused to take the lash of the British government, they demanded equality and an end to discrimination and now they are power-sharing and building a new Northern Ireland, shaky yes, poor candidates nationally, but they and others made a stand, were elected and now they serve and negotiate.
Come on Ireland, awake!!!!
@ bamboo – I don’t have a link to the testimonies, I typed it from the paper, I will type up the other three one each day and alert you.
Wish I was in a position where I could assist them, especially the girl with the spinal problems – there the people the governmet are elected to serve and assist – we have seen nothing of the sort.
There are a lot of posters on this, who indicate they want change, we, at least I, seem to lack the courage to take it to the next level. We can rightly criticise FF but they are the guys and dolls who stood for election and have the neck, they didn’t land in the Dail from outer space.
Hi G, thanks but don’t go to too much trouble. It will probably appear online sometime.
Hi Bamboo – no trouble, part of the struggle (awareness/dissemination of information)………….
Testimony #2
Michelle Kavanagh – clerical officer, Department of Justice:
“My take-home pay is now €445 per week. I have a second job. I work about 70 hours per week. It often means that my seven-year-old daughter is passed off to my mother, my sister, my friend, whoever I can get to mind her.
“I do not have a choice about working a second job. I have a mortgage that is €1200 per month. My partner has three children and is paying maintenance for them. So half this wages is gone on that and the other half goes towards the mortgage so it is up to me to put food on the table.
“I usually work Friday, Saturday and sometimes a Sunday afternoon. I have often done 30 hours over a weekend and then gone back into work on Monday and worked at night on a Wednesday. I am tired but I have to do it. At the end of the day it means feeding my family. This is not about luxuries, it is about keeping roofs over my families head.”
David.
I reckon that your article describes a picture of life in Ireland which show’s why it is that the controlling interests behind the criminal banking syndicates are managing, successfully, their interests through this engineered ‘credit crunch’.
Preserving their positions of power going forward into a new chapter is i reckon top priority over all else, at this juncture.
So, the top tier powerbrokers are in no difficulty on sticking it to the pubic service benchmarking pact.
No problem transferring the banking POnzi property gambling tab over to the taxpayer.
They’ve no problem with seizing the states bond issuance to use it under the cover story of NAMA to get their paws on multitude of billions out of the ECB.
They’ve no problem with crushing down on state expenditure to satisfy external perceptions on whether Irish elites are turning the screw or not on the masses to sow utter dismay and gripping anger into people and hamstring their sense of been able to do something.
These ‘controllers’ and occupiers of the power centers are embarked upon an unremitting scramble for power consolidation going forward under this transitional stage and the ‘outsiders’ which now makes up the middle age middle class now that they’ve been thrown to the vagaries of a collapsed economy with their maxed out debted arses blowing in the wind maybe they will en masse see that when they all thought they were been clever buying into a consumer led lifestyle yellow brick road and get real and discover that they were canon fodder feeding a debt slave money system fleecing the wealth of whatever labours they serve the system with and giving them back buttons and a hollowed out shell of an existence.
…………… i say ‘they’ve no problem’ carrying this economic inside bank job out because as paddy says down there at 12 ………
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the majority of the middle classes were in on the ‘easy credit sign the dotted line fantasy’.
So, of course the elites will push them out the window when it suits their next game plan, wakey wakey davey.
Howard Zinn passed away Wednesday, aged 87, he pointed the way for decades.
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/28/noam_chomsky_and_naomi_klein_respond
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/28/howard_zinn_1922_2010_a_tribute
Somethings afoot…..
Anyone with deposits in our banks needs to read and understand this;-
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0129/1224263355680.html
I had a look at this link. Interesting perspective. What happens next October ? The government is borrowing to prop up the economy. And Irish state debt levels and their interest repayments are increasing. The ability of the state to sustain this sort of arrangement is decreasing. Two years will have been wasted. Two years of dithering. Absolute dithering. nd bailing out the corporations and the insiders.
And apart from anything else – some of these banks have deteriorating positions of liquidity. And all of them have problems telling the public about the true state of their finances.
This is a serious issue over the next few months. I expect Lenihan to roll over the gaurantee for another two years. In fact it will be like Long Term Economic Value, and the renewal of Anglo Irish Bank, it will take forever to attain. Basically a politicians first choice is to postpone bad news so that it gets to be shoved into some other polticians agenda.
Just an obseration folloeing coldblow’s posting replete with Crott’s veracious text. Why should a minister have use of a chauffeuer driven car? I don’t get a lift to work, most professionals don’t either. Then why
is it that this crowd get driven everywhere at our expense?
I just read economist David McWilliams: “Today the average Irish family owes €132,000 to the banks”
O for god sake David give it a rest: “the end of us all” the middle class (whoever the …k they are) are people who wanted a bigger piece of the cake by (undercutting) trying to outdo his neighbor. In turn cutting costs (which are cutting down labour, and wages) that leaves the ordinary Joe (the consumer) who the “middle class” depend on with no spending power. You do not have to be a genius to see it’s a ticket back to Victorian times.
Small business can’t be content to stay small; in order to survive they have to always get what the little fellow can’t afford, and pass it on cheap to the consumer. By doing so he has to continually borrow getting bigger and bigger till his costs out way the profit/market value. What goes up must come down.
All dreams of prosperity is a sham simply because we can’t all prosper, and believing in the prosperity of others will benefit us is as ridiculous as believing in Santa. Just look at the models around the world. China, and India are a look back at what our industrial history was: dog eat dog sweat shops, and it gets wore because you and I know they like us will be wiped out sooner or later.
But I thought we moved on from all this David. There is no going back. A new model is needed. You do not know, I do not know, and if we did we should be in DAVOS at the minute.
Listening to Obama (State Of T Union Speech) made me sick. I only hope most didn’t buy his bull. He’s another “middle class” preacher. Jobs me arse man. Those days are long gone. We (by the minute) can’t do anything cheaper or better than China (and India following fast) and the smart boys saw it coming, that’s why they decided to create the bubble and make the money fast and sit back (with or without the prospect of investing in the bubbles elsewhere. If you haven’t got it now, you’ll be struggling (along with your kids) for the next 40 years (with no guarantees) to break even.
GAME OVER!
Paddy, first half i agree with after that, the ‘we cant all prosper’ is true to an extent that we can only all prosper if the free market capitalism operates without meddling and this ain’t happening so all are not prospering.
Paddy the last para is really striking at the truth of the post 2000 POnzi property bubble scam. It was a grab arama on an untold scale ‘cos the vested interests saw the writing on the wall. Spot on paddy.
The one word that sticks out in this article is located in the third last paragraph of David’s article and is the word “hungrier”…
There is opportunity here in this economy, I know there is because I’m in the middle of starting up not one but two businesses as I type. I’ve two hours work done at this stage of the day. I can’t turn on the radio or sit at a bar during the weekend without listening to, “where are our jobs???”, “we need more multinationals to come here”….
We need to get fucking over ourselves in this country and stop expecting the government to open our flies and wipe our arses for us. Forget about the Intel’s and the Dell’s, for they have forsaken you.
There are only two problems in this country:
(1) It’s citizens have become used to being literally SPOONFED and MOLLYCODDLED in the last ten years, making those same citizens indifferent to creating jobs FOR THEMSELVES, indifferent to taking risks and taking a punt on their own abilities…
(2) Due to what I’ve outlined at (1) above, the government is not in a position to provide start up funding for those very few Irish people who might feel inclined to create enterprise in Ireland. On top of that, the government is also included in (1) above which has resulted in an obvious lack of leadership when it comes to leading a state towards the goal of indigenious job creation.
We just are not HUNGRY enough, we are not prepared to take a punt on ourselves, but yet we expect everyone else to come over here and set up thousands of jobs for Paddy.
What we need is a national REAWAKENING!!!
DarraghD,
You’ve got a very good point re. mollycoddling – relying on FDI to create jobs is similar in principle to the third world relying on food handouts from the first world. Like the third world, the more we get, the more reliant we become and so, the weaker we become. The old Chinese Proverb summed it up very well – give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
Unfortunately, we’ve become FDI junkies, and have lost all initiative to do something for ourselves – now that the supply is in doubt, the public service has become a very desirable place with its let someone else take the risk culture.
{stop expecting the government to open our flies and wipe our arses for us.}
But this is what the very rich in Ireland expect the government to do. The poor apply their genius to survival. The rich set out to screw the tax system. It is socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor.
Debtors Nightmare – what has come to my attention in practice this week are young men and women who have taken action with the ombudsman on issues how they were granted their loans in the first place .
What has been interesting from examination of their own files are the following general points :
1 The house would be declared in writing by the broker that it was a 4 bed roomed house when it was only a three bedroomed one: and
2 The Purchase Price is ( say) €25,000 more than the actual market selling price at time of purchase; and
3 The Valuation Price is ( say) €25,000 more than the actual purchase price ; and
4 The actual purchase price is (say) €25,000 less than the declared purchase price and the actual valuation value.The valuation would have been carried out by an auctioneer when he knew the actual purchase price at the same time was €25,000 less ; and
5 The valuer instructs his solicitor to tell his buyer to shut up because the buye has complained him to his institute; and
6 The lender initially would not believe but now seems to understand the facts and is concerned; and
7 The broker explains to the buyer to lodge the €25,000 ( above given to him by way of loan from his parents ) to his solicitor and when the trasaction is over the solicitor repays the buyer back that amount ; and
8 Somehow mysteriously the employee of the broker is no longer working for the buyer and the broker denies everything ; and
9 The buyer ends up getting at least a 100% loan from a lender when their maximum was 90-92 % ; and
10 The performers are :
Lender
Buyers
Broker
Valuer
Solicitor
Ombudsman
maybe some scene later the jailer might appear and the judge and the sherriff and the new solicitor and the ……lets ay a lot more costs ……..maybe then bankruptcy is the only option outre mer – I would think this is still Slave Trading …what else is it?
Les Musicale Cross Roads
starring :le creme de creme irlandaise ;
avec : Slave Traders
Slaves
Merchants
Bankers
Politicians
et beaucoup de planxty et moulin rouge
John ALLEN -
Meeting bonus targets, run amok through the POnzi property bubble daisy chain, including the availers of the mortgages who were ATM’n their asset purchase.
FYI: http://wikileak.org/
correction : ‘ employee of the broker is no longer working for the broker’
Save The Debtors :
For those we know who are in trouble it might be helpful to help them by explaining that they should check the following as part of their assessment of their problems:
Get a copy of the Loan Application and check values and purchase price shown:
Get copy of auctioneers value :
Get the Engineers report copy;
Get copy of buyers solicitors statement of account with that firm:
Request copy from lender all correspondence from broker to lender;
Get copy of main page of the contract of sale re values etc ;
Check application to see if insurances are included ;
Get copy of loan approval and check values theron and if insurances are included and miscl ;
Check all correspondence from broker with buyer and take note of values and terms of loan etc ;
Do anything else that comes to mind as this matter cannot be generalised .
Very proactive, an advice service would be worth establishing, a website, which unlike the ‘debt assist’ websites doesn’t charge you for ‘expert advice’……..
G – I agree .In this case I would not profit from others who are less well off and loosing their their lifestyle and all their dreams due to licenced power hungry controllers .I believe in giving it gives great satisfaction .
Indeed, you give, you gain, your experience is useful, there may be ways out for people.
I mentioned the flourishing ‘debt management’ businesses because a former friend of mine set one up, naturally charges for the service, I personally find that disagreeable, he sees it as payment for years of training, expertise, advice and solutions for clients..’giving hope’ was what he said, and he is right to a point…….two sides of the same coin.
ref. BrendanW
Thomas
Jesus lads wake up and look around!
The vast majority of people do not want to take part in a discussion on where we are, or “we are where we are” and move on!
People’s lives have already being lost; the first blood has being spilled!
I personally know of 3 people that have killed themselves as a result of the loss of their business and the loss of their own home.
I have a friend working in the real estate business and he specializes in apartment sales in Dublin
The stories are just awfully,
We are way beyond your notion of how bad things are!
Here in this town I know of a Family that has lost its Dad and the Wife is about to lose the family home .There are 4 children in that house .Talk to this family about a cultural revolution and they will gut you!
“But if we don’t sober up a start this “Cultural Revolution”, we will have a Very Sad Country within the next few short years”
The anger that is out there is gone into a phase of retrenchment, where most people still being very placid, just want to ignore and switch off all the bad news. Their belief in the system is shattered and a sense of helplessness is all over the place.
When collecting the kids from school I here other parents say “if they had a shotgun”, I suppose we all hear these utterances’
These remarks are coming from the Middle Class who are not quite desperate yet but are getting there.
Personally I am quite prepared to take the next step, having vented my frustrations out on the blog I write; (now with 9500 viewers) I am still frustrated that no tangible results have come about. The same corrupt bastards are in power and the bonus cheques are sloshing around the major Banks like confetti at a wedding.
In the coming years we as a people will have to pay 50 to 80 Billion in interest alone to international bond holders ,so there are more nasty budgets on the way believe you me!
It is depressing just to write about this shit again,I have come to a time in life that I am now willing to take up arms and at least try to fight back against the Gangsters that have mastered the political system ,have their cronies come out on to the airwaves and spin their particular version of the state of the economy .Remember those that hold power dictate what is right and what is wrong ,what the law is and who is outside the law .The Nazis created laws that were for most Germans obviously very wrong but they still went along with them .
Only after a change of government were people prepared to condemn them.
The present FF and Green Government are working a system that has no changes since the 1930’s
It was another world then, with the modern world we need to have a completely new fully democratic system that is free enterprise friendly and is equally a people’s orientated society
a system of government that involves all the people ensures that there are no political density’s created ,no career politicians and a set time in offices for office holders
a system that ensures that the public servants of the people do not become millionaires as a result of their service of the people
I could go on and on but what use is it
The current system has infested the entire political system and the opposition in this country are just as good at working the system.
They too protect their own paymasters, the Bankers, the Union Bosses, and the Golden circles that populate this Ba-NAMA land of ours now
Most of the politicians that slime around Lenster House have being there all their working lives and have being pampered all their lives, they don’t even have to get up to get a glass of water in the Dail chamber, they have equally ushers that have being their all their working lives and know nothing of the daily struggles of the ordinary people of Ireland
From what I read on this forum I am not likely to get any support for admittedly radical views
But I will be in the front line if and when Revolution comes.
I recently set up a grouping called Citizens Association of the Bewildered (CAB) (My next phase)
(No takers yet unbelievable)
The idea was to take real and sustained action (demonstrations outside these offices) against the various corrupt bodies, I.e. the Banks and government offices and outside the Dail .Demanding resignations and highlighting corruption and the like. I was hoping to have live video links to the various social networks so the ordinary people could see how we were being handled by the Garda
On the spot questioning of the politicians, Bankers at their AGM etc
All members displaying Press ID badges supplied by me from my press and Media Company
So all members will be de-facto journalists and have the right to go into Lenster House and observe the daily theatre there.
I am talking about getting away from the keyboard and doing something more active, more hands on!
Point is I believe we are slowly heading towards Bloody Revolution on the streets if the boys in power don’t listen to the ordinary people .The past temporary measures will not work anymore because people a better educated and the Internet takes away their monopoly on the news
anyway keep the ideas comming !
Killing yourself over loosing profit is an OTT reaction.
I have to disagree with you maccholz.
You cannot fight or have a ‘bloody revolution’ to create prosperity for people.
If the people have clear political ideas, why do they vote FF/FG again and again and again, forever?
The answer is because the public just want prosperity, they want their HOUSE VALUES back!!
IT_ IS_ NOT_EVEN_A_REMOTE_POSSIBILITY.
The people should hand back the houses and start again renting – but they’re too stubborn to do that. They therefore resort to yet more childish tantrums and talk of ‘if I had a shotgun’. Idiots never shot a firearm in their lives, and would be terrified it would backfire on them, and terrified of going to jail if it went off, never mind actually hit someone.
It’s like listening to the kind of idiot nonsense the poor Red Indians were talking with their Ghost Dance when they new the white man had beaten them for once and for all.
Remember 1916 – almost nobody supported the rebels. It was only the shame on letting them be executed that aroused people in the end.
You want to motivate Irish people? Talk to them about the shame UPON THEM, how people are laughing AT THEM, looking down upon them, for doing nothing.
Don’t bother trying to motivate them with visions or ideals – they don’t care and the historical record shows that only a tiny, elite minority ever cared.
Most can’t spell Bunreacht na hÉireann, never mind know what it even is. It’s that bad out there.
Eireannach: “If the people have clear political ideas, why do they vote FF/FG again and again and again, forever” FF/FG are neither left or right wing, a center party or a populist party. That’s why they are chosen. These parties know exactly what the people want to hear and and they talk the talk according to outcome in their market research. Nothing to do with what they actually and genuinely believe.
Radical ideas only come when a nation is in a desperate situation. That’s when the change to left or right happens and their will be no centre party anymore. The more bad news we hear on the TV/radio the more we go into a fighting mode to change. So a government, amidst all the doom and gloom, always (try to) make sure the nation is fed by some good news on a regular basis. Drop feeding the good news.
The latest “good news” story is that we will be out of recession by the second half of this year. Hmmmm, we will have to see about that. Under the condition of course that we as a nation are prepared to loose our incomes.
I am sure you can find other so called “good news” stories coming from the governments mouth. Same story with the bank bailouts. First a couple of billion (which doesn’t seem to be so bad, does it?) then NAMA, and now the banks need even more. Drip feeding the bad news.
The other thing is that the people who have lost their jobs would have received their redundancy package. This redundancy package can be quite substantial in some cases so these people are still OK financially. They probably think in terms of setting up their own business or put it into other good use. But soon this money will run out and the tax man will probably go after them as well and this is when Shit will happen.
My point is in essence it is not bad enough yet to have a “revolution”.
machholz, I agree with most points you’re making and I can understand where you’re coming from. But I don’t believe in a “bloody revolution”
Eireannach You’re saying: “The people should hand back the houses and start again renting”. The way the culture is here in Ireland this only leads to more abuse from landlords. See above under number 1 in G ‘s post. This is really the last thing we should do. Ireland is not like Germany, France Holland, etc where renting is regulated. It will never happen here.
@Bamboo
The law for renting – fixity of tenure and so on – will change here to become more like France, Germany , Holland and the other core EU states.
The EU will make sure it happens. Eventually, as the EU converges more and more, all the laws everywhere in Europe will converge, including terms of rental contracts.
The EU introduced the Building Energy Rating scheme into Ireland. An equivalent for rental terms and conditions will be coming, probably quite soon.
@Eireannach
We live in a society of the abuser vs the abused. How long have we been in the EU and what has happened so far? The EU is not going to change that.
The BER scheme is only to look good but who is taking up on it. It is only to create jobs.
With the BER scheme came SEI. Believe me, I’ve installed a new central heating system a couple of months ago and was hoping to get a 700 euros of the SEI.ie or http://www.save-energy.ie. To get that 700 euros you need to have it done by SEI registered contractors. Just ask a contractor how much it cost to get him registered. That price will go into your quote. In the end I opted for a non SEI registered contractor however with RGI (registered gas installer) certificate. It was much two grand cheaper and just as good so forget SEI.
BER should have been long since implemented in all those estates built all over Ireland. Every new house should have had solar energy installed. Every street should have ground source geothermalheating installed. But that is too late now. What was the reason for not implementing this?
I guess we all know the answer to that.
Eireannach – you obvioulsy never heard of Senator Donie Cassidy. Apparently he is a defender of the Constitution. But he voted in favour of NAMA, so he is not too keen on Article 45 of Bunreacht na hEireann.
He sums up the lip service approach that we get from Kildare Street.
Many years ago I enjoyed a little holidays in one of the Greek island. What was so remarkable on that island is that there were so many houses with flat roofs that actually looked like unfinished apartments. They looked like as there was another floor to be built on it and I wasn’t sure whether it was a house or an apartment block. The locals explained that it was ready for the next phase. For their children when they want to be independent. So the plan is to build another dwelling on top of existing house in the future.
My children were only in their early teens at the time. As property became slowly but surely unaffordable in a normal way I thought that the Greek concept was a good concept for my children when they wanted to be independent. As they grow older I encouraged them to get out a very small mortgage (let’s say 50k) to build an additional dwelling to our existing house. It would have been so cheap to build comparing to buying or renting a house. We could’ve shared the cost of a lot of overheads utility bills, phone, broadband, etc. We could also share a lot of stuff like washing machines, garden furniture, tools, cars, bikes, etc, etc.
But nooo . . . . . My kids wanted to be independent adults. Not only that. Before they do the jump to adulthood, they had to travel the world first. After all of that is done they “wouldn’t” mind settling down.
Now after 3 to 4 years traveling the world they want to settle down or do further studies. Now they’re all back in Ireland, doing further studies but finding it hard to pay the rent. One has already come back home, the other is coming home at the end of next month after renting a place for a year. The other is settled with his partner but struggling hard to get by.
Young people are brainwashed that to be independent and leave the nest, which is normal. But now parents are looked at as being losers if their children still live at home in their adult years. And also the children think are regarded as losers if they still live at home. On top of that, you have’t lived if you haven’t seen the world.
Media and bankers have been ranting at our society that we should live the full life. And that is “spend (borrow ) now and worry about paying it back later. I wish I can find all the TV ads on youtube that encourage young people borrow and spend to do whatever they like. The banks even targeted parents to get their children on the property ladder. I am sure you remember the so called “Student loan” whery the student actually wanted to travel or buy shoes, bags and party. Anything but their studies. The banks were willing to hand out the loans and “no questions” asked. One of my sons is still paying off a student loan from two years ago. He’s doing further studies and in the weekend and is delivering pizzas to pay off his loan. But still the banks are offering him a student loan.
The only good thing is that none of my children has a mortgage. A bit of luck I suppose. No, in fact it wasn’t really luck. I told them not to get out a mortgage and I would get so annoyed at them if they talked about it so they thought I meant business.
In many parts of Europe the children are set up for life with the Greek island concept. Many houses/apartments in Germany have 3 or 4 floors and two generations live in that same building. Most of the world live with 2 or more generations in the same very comfortable house. With a substantially small mortgage they now live in very comfortable conditions and still have a party.
For the families with children in their late teens early twenties I advise to look into this concept. because it is going to be quite bad.
Bamboo what a brilliant comment.
I agree with it all. You cover the nuts and bolts of how the central banking debt slave monetary system works it’s feudal trickery on the kid’s programming them into debt based consumer spending robots and one must look at this if one want s to examine the economics of our present situation.
Irish society has been suckered hook line and sinker by the debt based money system consumer wipe out culture which has infiltrated every nook and cranny of our existence and ireland held out for as long as it could against this new culture now mainstream.
The culture of consumerism and its pre requisite value system now rules the our lives in all its dimensions. From grocery shopping to medical care to the shape of gov policy over to public services everything is guided by the hand that rots our teeth the hand of a ‘culture of consumerism’ and its radioactive value system.
It rots away inner esteem and confidence. It puts the cleverest apes in the jungle in the centers of power across all spectrums of society including gov, banking, education.
Old style husbandry of resources is done away with and collectivisation and it s driving force to clump all into the same lump of diddy oogling oral gratifying drink guzzling lay abouts posing as productive members of society because they carry the right sound byte make the right snigger and carry the badge of been a jailor.
And this jailor system structures all else into a disguised sado masochistic dynamic driving all human activity but wears the mask of concern and refined consideration in order for it to hide from itself its own cope out on carrying through a work ethic into real productivity.
Wills, I was trying to find some of the TV ads on Youtube or somewhere else that the bankers had. Any ideas? We can all have a good laugh (or cry) then.
Who said artists and merchants are in opposition
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-l4y_PiazY
BOI -Please don’t let them be at home
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_URy6gEijg
Thanks for the informative links. Advertising specialists are not Artists.
What exactly do they mean when they say the ads were a success ?
Oh,yeah that means the ads made people more likely to bid up the prices of houses…
Very well outlined wills
Thanks G for the links
[...] Link http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/01/27/how-ff-put-middle-class-deep-into-debtors-prison [...]
To start something new you must get rid of the rot you have !
But the rot is not just the politicians, bankers and developers.
It is in everyone, I mean EVERYONE, who believes that spending like drunken sailors whilst accumulating unpayable debts is the way to wealth, rather than long-term thinking by saving, little by little.
In our country 90% spend, 10% save. So there’s your rot – 90% of the public. Otherwise, how have we become the country with one of the highest rates of household/personal debt in the world? Whose fault is that?
Think about it before you take up arms against ‘the enemy’. I have seen the enemy, and it is ‘us’.
Precisely Eireannach, spending more than you earn is bad news if your earning is not real wealth productivity .
@ Bamboo – some very valid points. Saw the same type of thing all over central america, houses half built, waiting for the money before they built the floor. In Mexico, families lived close by, supported each other etc in Ireland it seems more distant, people pursuing their own agendas, slightly atomised, which the system rejoices in.
No harm thinking of new ways to live, many do not have this option as they are badly exposed, heavily indebted. I agree it will get rough, maybe it needs to, maybe then the people will be sufficiently motivated to come together and do something about their predictament, maybe then they will realise Frank Fahy is too busy with his 40 gaffs, Cowen too busy counting the euros, Martin too busy checking his pensions, Harney too busy looking into Superbowl tickets, Gilmore too busy trying to survive until he can guarantee the ministerial pension, Coughlan too busy lining up the next inappropriate outfit and hair-do……………..
People need to be jolted awake, only then is their a possibility of real change.
Good night folks.
Folks, the “cracks” are showing:
http://www.irelibrary.ie/news_detail.aspx?id=78
Thanks “Coldblow”. I was unaware of Raymond Crotty but, peeping at http://www.irishdemocrat.co.uk/greaves-summer-school/individualistic-capitalism/ and other sites, I note he also came to see the land question as key to Ireland’s (ongoing?) economic misfortune and depopulation.
So, what is it about the Irish mindset that has it at one point in history leading the land tax/land reform movement , only to back off as though injected with a total amnesia serum? To the point that Ireland, having once led the world, now seems more beholden to landed interests than anywhere else in the world. [I think some of my forbears may unfortunately have played a part!]
So, David McWilliams, IMHO, it’s a bit off target to blame ANY political party if the people won’t keep their politicians honest and up to the mark – i.e. representing the people instead of special interests.
We have been asleep as an electorate. Though it must be emphasized IBEC control the media through advertising budgets, and control the news.
Bamboo – thats a nice philosophy however I could not help thinking of …’bamboo shoots’.
:-)
One more thing, because depositors have a claim on the banks assets and are treated pro-rata, in any bankruptcy, with other creditors. This means any dividing of assets must be proportioned. relative to the size of each creditors claim.
The irony of the Irish government’s approach is that the State may effectively already own the the banks assets and could rightly seize to that effect.
SYTLES OF GOVERNMENT – not quite a continuation from page 1
With reference to my posting on page 1 on the above topic and the dearth of illumination in Dáil Éireann, I wish to inform you that the Minister’s response to the question is continuing in the form of a monologue outside of the Houses and a stenographer is recording his analysis for posterity. The Party of Friendly Fire and even the opposition members of Dáil Éireann appreciate his extended circumlocution to allow the mandarins of Merrion Street time to conceive of a plan whereby all TDs will receive a bonus for participating in an activity – namely, changing a lightbulb – which is not stipulated in their contracts, plus, they would like a long-service increment if the activity involves a level of exertion which lasts for more than 5 minutes. The mandarins themselves will be eager as ever to obtain a “slice of the action”: a simple banker-style bonus for dreaming up a plan which may ultimately fail would do nicely, thank you.
It is difficult for me to see how the situation will resolve itself. In better times, Snowwhite (from Donegal) and the seven front-bench dwarfs would have risen to the task by rotating the ladder while the Minister for Finance did the screwing. I believe that today the only way forward, is to have a government of national unity as indeed some of you have been recommending. This solution would ensure that we have many more hands available to make light work.
Time, of course would be the critical factor for our TDs. They need time, for example, to consult with a fact-finding committee to learn how to change a lightbulb and to have an expert explain to them the “global” nature of the problem. The situation demands an immediate response which will be tough but necessary: the creation of a government of national unity, with one hundred and sixty-five TDs working together, puffing and pushing relentlessly, to rotate Leinster House as the Minister for Finance holds a new SOLUS in place and succeeds in screwing it up.
(NOTE ON THE GRAVITY OF THE SITUATION: The mandarins haven’t figured it yet, but there is actually nothing wrong with the original bulb. The problem is that the 2010 Budget Statement revealed such an enormous black hole that gravitational pull is sucking all available light from the Chamber. There is hope on the horizon – NAMA, the plan of salvation for lightbulbs, the universe and life everlasting.)
In the coming days, the Minister will deliver his special homily to the middle classes: “NAMA and the need for change (lots of it), illumination and salvation”. The worst is over. Deo gratias!
Which one of them dwarves is “dopey” ? Martin Cullen maybe ?
Financial Aparthed – should an Irish borrower hand back the keys to the bank and in negative equity the bank can come after the borrower for 12 years and the social welfare authorities will deny the borrower all entitlements he would normally be entitled to .
But not in Buenos Aires John.
Check it out………
Who is in the shadows?
Who really pulls the puppet strings?
The dark side
My guess is that this guy is not far away from the levers of power
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/weekend/2010/0130/1224263415702.html
Tony Murphy – thanks for the link.
{ On one occasion, Sutherland visited Lenihan to tell him what a great job he thought he was doing and to say that Lenihan had the potential to be one of the great taoisigh of the 21st century.}
Now we know that we are in serious trouble. Basically Lenihan is there for the rich. The rest of us are bunched.
{ Sutherland says the most recent budget “restored pride in the Irish situation”. It was “courageous and correct and absolutely necessary”, and created an international perception of “brave little Ireland”, he says. “But brave little Ireland has to continue to deliver.” Ireland’s competitiveness is “way down” on that of other countries, says Sutherland, and the public sector needs further radical changes. }
Here we go again. Different era, same sh*te. Press the pride button. The Irish will immediately get into line, all you have to do is tell them that if they are restoring pride, and they will go along with it. The something for nothing philosopy again. This is how the rich rule us – by making these patronizing matras and rules for us over the commercial media, and telling us that we have to do their bidding, in order to continue the pride addiction. [Personally I think we should drop the pride thing].
Oh yeah, and Suds has a proven track record in banking.
Gold man Sucks.
Royal Bank of Scotland (the bank that will break Britain).
Allied Irish Banks (the bank that is involved in every banking scandal and debacle since….well since forever really).
This is the sort of “serious journalism” that makes Murdoch’s rags look informative. Thankfully the internet will put all them scoundrels out of business !!!
tony_murphy, Sutherland shows up every time the government or IBEC are looking for wage-cuts for the little-people; Every single time!
What with being an international-buisiness-banker-man-of-mystery an’ all, sure we’d be BOUND to listen to him and take his advice, wouldn’t we?
Is Sutherland not related to Garret Fitzgerald through marriage or something like that ?
Anyway he was educated in Gonzaga College in the 1960s. He represents the tendency of a certain socio-economic class to suck out of the rest of the population.
Have a look Deco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garret_FitzGerald
and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFwYUg9l1U8
Fellow contributors. You have to send this on to all that you know. It is a sneer of the triumpherate, Politicians, Bankers and Speculators.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WBYQn1Fwgo&feature=related
Folks, Michael Taft openly accuses IBEC of misleading the Irish public regarding wage-rates; He says:
” Then I look at the AMECO database. For it is the only one IBEC spokespersons use – and in doing so they are knowingly misleading the debate over our wage competitiveness.”
Read the full piece, containing links to support his argument here:
http://www.progressive-economy.ie/2010/01/memo-to-ibec.html
We all know what IBEC has been doing and why IBEC lies in the media all the time; it is good to get the evidence that proves it.
IBEC controls the media through advertising spend. That is one of the ‘successes’ of a centralised business lobby group like IBEC. They can agree on an agenda. And then they can apply pressure on the media before deciding advertising spends.
And then the media is in no position to argue. “our advertising sponsors” calls the shots.
IBEC should be broken up. It is a serious transgression to the Irish Constitution, to the principles of elected democracy, to the principle of treating all children equally, and of proper functioning of government.
Kick IBEC out of influencing the government of this country. Can we the taxpayer and voters sue IBEC for undermining our democracy ???
Let me tell you this story that you may or may not believe. I can hardly believe myself.
I accepted a 6 months contract in Amsterdam 4 years ago. Nothing fancy job.
That job was 12 000 less a year than the job in Ireland. (I commuted in the weekends.)
-The tax that I was paying was 42%.
- All my commuting expenses were payed by the employer, daily train fares and weekly flights.
- There is such a thing as Holiday money in Holland. This holiday money is basically a 13th month.
- I had to pay for taxis from and to dublin Airport myself.
- I had to pay for the compulsory health insurance myself.
- I didn’t have any pensions contributions
- I bought weekly groceries in Amsterdam and brought it home.
- Paid my utility bills in Ireland as usual and had a utility bill in Amsterdam as well.
The most remarkable thing about this is that I had plenty of savings at the end of each month and when I decided to end my contract I actually had a few grand left. Not much but that was certainly much more than if I was working in Ireland with a higher salary.
My wife and myself could never understand why I was able to make these sort of savings. She was sure I was earning more and wouldn’t tell her.:-). I checked my salary slips every month and bank balance every month to make sure no mistake was made somewhere.
Somehow we are paying a lot more for everything. Consumer Price comparisons between Ireland and abroad are not accurate enough. One possible reason could be that we were always scrimping and scraping the barrels in Ireland and did the same in Amsterdam. Only after that work and living experience in Amsterdam I can only conclude there is something definitely wrong or missing in these comparisons. So whatever is been said about the Irish pays are higher may be true but what is left over at the end of the month is what matters.
I’d love to know if there is anybody out there with the same experience.
Bamboo,
Stet.
I can buy two breakfasts in London for £8.
8 yo yo’s here gets coffee and a croissant for one.
It is, as you say, the little things that mount up.
A yo yo in Wroclaw will buy you a lot more than in Dublin.
Common Currency – Common Theft too.
Here is an fairly stern warning concerning the entire charade or veneer of ‘co-ordinated response’ coming from the leadership of the West in respect to the current economic crisis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_02Jh2m9Vc&feature=channel
Which just proves that the only reasonable option is to stop bailing out these rich corporations. Let them collapse. Just like the state allows small businesses to fail.
And here is is analysis of the Irish banks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Ukb6TBdiE&feature=related
The effort to accent Brian Lenihan’s response is hilarious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXBJ7dblm_s&NR=1
It’s like as if he has a clear idea about why the people are unimpressed by the official response.
Here is a link concerning the real picture concerning Spain.
Spain will encounter serious difficulties this year. The PIGS Premium will go up. Even if Lenihan managed to improve the fiscal situation (by throwing out the quangos for example), we would still be in really serious problems.
Here is the link on Spain.
http://www.safehaven.com/article-14360.htm
George Lee spills the beans on how had it was to speak the truth on RTE during the boom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obnGVSf6-gA&feature=related
Deco, you are correct about Peter Sutherland’s crony connection to FG; it is why Fitzgerald appointed him as Attorney General back in the eighties and why he is still appointed to certain EU trough-jobs.
What many people do not realise is that the FG/FF divide/rivalry is a sham, so Sutherland has kudos from all parties. He also sits on the Bilderberg group, deciding the fate of the sheeple everywhere.
His sole impetus is world domination by the elite and keeping the sheeple in the dark.
A hermeneutic of suspicion must be applied to every utterance of such people.
Muddle and fuddle and maybe just nudge something in the right direction just a little week by week.
Lets be very honest and realise that you can change very little. Like the weather, you have to live with it or leave. FF is here to stay as are the elites. Let circumstance look after the bigger things and focus on yourselves and your future.
OK, maybe this is a selfish outlook. But face it, Lenihan is all we got and frankly his job is not somthing I’d like. The PS union confrontation is a given, the ECB and Bond premium squeeze is a given as are a whole host of things outside of our and indeed his control. Lenihan is staring at a 20bn black hole in current finances. There is no way to fill it except by cutting spend or swiping an average of 500/month off every worker in the state…and this before you address competitiveness.
About time we turned our back of these guys and learn to live with what we have – funnily enough eachother. As small businesses, as dwindling teams in MNCs, as government depts whatever…the only thing that matters is we try an make a positive difference – week by week…not as a matter of patriotism, but as a matter of communal survival. Let the big stuff blow out as it will.
In your communities, get to know your neighbours, their skills, their issues. At work try and make progress week by week and celebrate it. Celebrate our local accomplishments, celebrate all our techies, nerds, business builders etc. Celebrate the foreigners who have helped us. Celebrate the PS who do a good job. Never – and I mean never comment negatively on fckups – lessons learned and remebers them. And be assertive with shenannigans without anger. Not on my watch buster!
You are going to get taxed , ripped off etc. for now. The momentum is too great to stop. But if you care for your community, you’ll get the leadership you want quicker than you think. Learn to celebrate. No more crying in beers.
It’s the power of one…to be happy. Make all your encounters a positive and memorable one. We all have it in us.
philip.
And you are too right. The elites are there and only an ‘asteroid’, cosmic type like event will ‘deep freeze’ their power.
And its going to be the following.
A return to the use of the ‘flexing’ muscle and a freezing of the ‘little boy lost twinkle in the eye bendee muscle’.
And you all know who you are who use it.
http://www.aussenpolitikforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2064
David is asking us to chose the answer to the following :
Are we either
Chitty Chitty Boom Boom or
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang or
Chitty Chitty Boom Burst .
send in your answers
Chitty. -
A signed voucher or memorandum of a small debt, as for food and drinks at a club
Bang -
.“Bang-whang-whang goes the drum, tootle-tetootle the fife; No keeping one’s haunches still: it’s the greatest pleasure in life”
Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
Owe the money and whack the donkey.
Sounds like an Investment Banker on a coke induced roll.
Good man JohnA.
The two hooches are organizing a posse to lynch jim corr as we speak.
Hooches / leperachaun (leppy) paddy mammies
Have you ever come across an Italian by the name of Julius Evola wills? He could be best described as a traditonalist and he believes in the Aristocrats of the soul as does the writer of your linked article. There is a correct way of doing things in the world, there is a natural order, and to transgress against this order brings chaos. On one level it is very simple-know yourself and be true to yourself, live with quite pride, humility and integrity. Tell the truth basically, and you can’t go wrong.
The system seems to be rotten wills; perhaps it is best to let it fall and concentrate on your own well being. I think this was the message of Christ too when he spoke of the sparrows in the field.
I am getting out a bit more these days and am often amongst people and I find myself aghast at the level of ignorance abroad; like the littering I mentioned in a previous posting. There seems to be no quality there. Are people really that blind? Have they been corrupted or was it always so?
An example-not too long ago Cork was the European Capital of Culture, and this went through my mind as I stood on the Grand Parade on Thursday night and watched the masses of drunken youth, the country’s lifeblood, restlessly loitering about waiting for something to happen. Fights broke out and people were arrested; and they all were trying to get into a fast-food joint to get their hands on chicken meat taken from some forsaken fowl that was raised in a cage, brought from egg to ‘product’ in twenty-one, chemically induced, tortuous days, then slaughtered and packed. Now this may have happened in Thailand or Brazil, or indeed Cappoquin, and this fast food was served by some-one from some other foreign country, less fortunate enough in the world to have to come here and serve these people that ‘chicken’. And I thought to myself, this is all wrong, where’s the quality, where’s the education, the respect and the Culture?
But this is what we are offered by our leaders wills, this is the accepted face of modern Ireland, the free market economy; this, it seems, is the best we can do.
Martino.
Let me re-iterate that it is most definitely not the ‘free market’. The free market is on pause and parked.
The ‘market’ in operation is not free it is rigged up.
The lost generations are similar to the middle classes D is talking about in article above. On this i see a ‘rot’ at work.
This ‘rot’ is rooted in a culture of consumerism and its pre requisite values which amounts to a sado masochism operating software program like a bubble wrap we enter into planet earth in and must shed for our own best interests.
i reckon social darwinism will usher in the free market and i see that now underway very clearly martino.
Regarding the free market I think the most salient example ot its non-existence here are the licensing laws regarding the sale of alcohol but it extends into everything else, including food, medicine and recreational drugs-how much money is swallowed up by this black market, I wonder,-culminating naturally in the fixed property huckstering that has us facing the financial abyss. The most basic need for housing is not being met. How many young professionals are stuck ‘sharing’ accomodation, never getting the chance to develop further? I liked the article, interesting looking site. Sprechen Sie auch deutsch wills?
mein deutsche ist shisse, martino!
Thats close to it alright, the quickest and easiest way to preserve power is to ensure power structure and no better way than denying people a house without going into debt to get one.
It is so obvious, why is it everyone does not have equal access to a roof over their head.
Very straight forward proposition. Everyone gets a house to live in and if anyone wants anything fancier then they go and work for it.
Martino – correct. Where is the ‘culture’ ? Men sitting on couches watching wall to wall premiership matches. Same shite different day. Just don’t ever expect them to go and watch a local soccer or GAA club, let alone ask them to take some exercise. And herself is in a different room watching “misery TV” programs same hour every day, different shower of pretenders going from one ‘crises’ to another.
The whole thing is surreal. Your best chance of getting culture is from yer man on the minimum wage cleaning up the vomit from outside the fast food outlet the next morning.
Oh yeah. And we have a celebrity ex-Taoiseach, with a minicelebrity exgirlfriend serving as a director on a quango, and Murdoch promiting his daughter’s book, and selling us celebrity soccer matches. And the celebrity exToaiseach writes an ‘autobiography’ and Matt Cooper says that it is possible to read all of it, and learn nothing, and then the Revenue Commisioners decide, without referall to the Arts Commision, that the autobiography is a work of Art. Fiction.
The whole society has become superficial.
When Ahern’s biography gets categorised as “art” then culture in this country is banjaxed…
If one were to believe the latest poll, and that a trend is is likely, it looks like Turkeys will be voting for Christmas.
And what will Kenny lite do about it ? Eh, very little most likely. Gilmore will do his angry man routine. Sleevin will express his outrage. And Gormless will ask Fionan Sheehan to provide a PR coverage for the GP.
It really is saying something when a mediocre drunkard is going up in opinion polls in a country. It would not happen even in a fully fledged banana republic. Maybe in the NAMA republic.
Darwinism : However form this happens to cure our financial and social ills I see a strong semblance what is happening in Haiti to what we have here in ireland .The one over riding thing that singularly acts as the catalyst to change the lumpishness under our skin is ‘PLANTATION’ .
There is no escape from this .We have to accept this and do so soon .The sooner the better and move on .We need to do it on our own terms too .Otherwise we may get the scum of the continent arriving on our doorsteps .
In exchange for this Plantation our domestic and national debts are forgiven.
Most political european leaders are moving certain socio sub foreign cultures around in circles attempting to evade their own electorate .When the Brish arrived they has ‘ a sense of style ‘ that added to the well being of our country.I doubt that might be the case continental style .Time will tell.
A call has been made for BoI to give something to taxpayer in exchange for the bailout and NAMA. I think that this is a good idea. The BoI site on Dame Street / College Green could be handed over to Trinity College or the DIT. In fact I think it would make a lot of sense to give it to the DIT, as the DIT campus locations are distributed all over the city. And if the one DIT location was placed in the exact city centre then this would make everything easier for the students.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bank-rejects-call-to-donate-historic-building-2041219.html
Another option is as a Musuem.
Maybe we could have a Museum for corruption ? Or a Museum of Irish 19th Century History. We have enough stories to create one. And it would be an excellent tourist addition.
So, the banking enquiry is the talking point this morning on radio.
Scoping scoping scoping.
D’s blog scoping enquiry may be guide them in the right direction
D / Moderator any chance of opening up the archive for a time fame, on articles going back to sep 2008.
Please.
Wills
Listening to Today FM. Sam Smyth has Conor Lenihan on (again). “Kebab” is putting a positive spin on the poll results. Apart from that he has very little to suggest concerning how to fix the countr’s predicament. Varadkar is attacking FF. And Alex White seems more interesting in attacking Varadkhar than “Kebab”. (Is this an indication that ILP policy is to pick FF if ‘the numbers come down to that”). So much for ILP being the opposition.
Talking about the mayor of Dublin role. Varadkhar says that he won’t do it if it a load of symbolic nonsense. Fair point. The problem is that Dublin is ungovernable for one individual. I mean you could have a strong personality as Mayor of Cork or Galway. But in Dublin it would end up in a squabble with the various four local authorities and all the various local factions. As the Yanks say….Forgeddaboutid!!
In fact, a strong mayor of Dublin, would only work if Athlone or Portlaoise was made capital.
This link describes the ireland in NAMA land disaster.
The b@stard landlords will not put rents down and so grafton street is dying a slow death.
WHY keep the rents so high.
Again we are back to the vested interests, preserving power, debt bondage and plantations.
And NAMA props this feudal madness up. using our gov bond issuance.
The most powerful, richest people in Ireland have assumed our gov’s bond issuance for themselves and are using it to preserve their wealth and powerr.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/grafton-street-decline-claims-iconic-jeweller-2041301.html
The problem with ‘town’ and particularly with the area between Temple Bar and Merrion Square, is the excessive prices charged for everything. We are also see the victory of plastic consumerism over the older consumerism. And with an oversupply of retail space across the entire country, on a considerable scale, we are going to see continual battles for rent and custom. (David’s analysis of Nenagh I think provided us with an excellent example of our excessive retail space invesment).
Having sold out their beliefs, abandoning their distaste for cronyism has become second nature. Even when they aren’t constructing golden parachutes for defenestrated Green party members, both ministers now dispense largesse as though they were feudal monarchs rather than democratically accountable public representatives.
Make no mistake: the Greens do not offer a kinder, gentler version of political chicanery: soya cronyism, perhaps, or tofu stroke-pulling. This is the full-blooded traditional variety, red in tooth and claw. Failure is not an option for the Greens because they’ve become more Fianna Fail than Fianna Failers themselves.
Star struck
Made the mistake yesterday of getting soup and a (tiny) sandwich yesterday in town. i was left with about 1.50eur change from a tenner.
I always bring sandwiches when in the city centre. And I only buy stuff that is the same price everywhere. You can go into Dunnes Stores St. Stephens Green and get water/milk/drink for the same price as everywhere else. As a matter of principle to make the overcharging not profitable.
Tim – you will be interested in this.
This is what the GP are really about. Nepotism.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7009549.ece
McKenna was correct – Gormless and co are a shower of hypocrites.
Deco, excellent! I love to see the truth spreading!
Remember the GP grass roots conveniently passed NAMA by precisely the 66.6% majority required? Back-room ballot counting should be out-lawed. I have seen a Seanad count tampered with some years ago, in order for the “convenient” result to be orchestrated. At least we ordinary people still get to scrutinise the General and Local election ballot-counts (after our narrow escape from those odious voting machines that we are still paying FF cronies to warehouse).
But it is not just FF and GP that have screwed the people; remember the NAMA amendment vote in the Dáil from which the ENTIRE Labour Party abstained? LAB could have toppled the government right there! They had the gun in their hand and they refused to pull the trigger.
We elect and pay TDs to legislate, to make decisions; abstaining is immoral at best and, at worst, a criminal dereliction of duty.
FF, GP and independents voted for NAMA, even though I know that their grass roots opposed the Parliamentary Parties’ position. FG voted against NAMA. We see their decisions, as they nailed their colours to the mast (whether we agree or disagree with them).
Labour abstained. Wimps! Yellow-bellied Benedict Arnolds! What does abstention mean?
1) Labour TDs “don’t know” what to make of NAMA?
2) Labour TDs don’t understand NAMA?
3) Labour TDs do understand NAMA, but do not want a General Election because they do not want to be in power at a time when they would have to make decisions about how to correct the problems that the FF/PD Parliamentary parties caused?
Did Labour voters elect their TDs to abstain? Of course not.
Abstaining is wrong.
I know that I seem like a broken record here, but we must keep at it and state, again and again, that we have a democratic deficit in the Dáil.
The TDs are not doing their jobs by legislating in the people’s interests (bar the tiny, powerless, principled minority, like Maguinnes (sp?) and Behan).
Tim,
Dilly pointed out that FG were not interested in running the country. That they were happy enough to sit on the opposition benches and draw salaries for doing nothing except posturing.
It seems that the Irish Labour Party are even more inclined to do nothing. And the ILP are definitely more inclined at posturing.
They are turning the national Parlaiment into the national state circus.
Irish banks in trouble again.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-banks-owed-euro6bn-by-shaky-greek-economy-2041519.html
It seems that to be an Irish banker requires a level of ineptitude and incompetence that is lacking elsewhere.
So Irish banks got caught at home. And that is caught in residential property, in development property and in commercial property. And Irish banks got caught in Britain. Again in the three areas of property investment. Plus we had various investment schemes from the likes of Davy, Quinlan, O’Brien (the Irish Madoff) etc…
And Irsh banks got caught in IceSave (Permo lost 40 Million I think). And Irish banks got caught in the US real estate meltdown. (no calculation yet of exposure to the Chicago Spire flop). Irish banks have also been caught with exposure to each other – because they are buying each others shares so that the bank directors can appoint their freinds as directors of competing banks. And they have been caught in a long list of share drops for the rest of the ISEQ, because Irish banks have stakes in most companies in the ISEQ and like to use this also as a mechanism to control companies and plonk their pals into cosy directorship, and get second directorships for themselves.
And last week we found out that AIB was caught up in the Stuyesvant Village Real Estate cathastrophe. We know that ANIB have give loans to (formerly) rich Irish people to buy penthouses in NYC and other locations. Plus the Florida adventurers, the Sunny Beach Burgas adventurers, and all the other holiday home loan makers.
And now,somehow or other, our Imperial Banker Class has managed to get a peice of the action in Grease. Er sorry I meant Greece – the country.
At this stage I think there is clear evidence that the Irish banking system deserves to be allowed fail according to it’s own devices. The Irish banking class is intellectually bankrupt. Financial bankruptcy is an inevitable consequence.
A collection of muppets.
Oh. And then there was the most interesting part of that article.
{
that Irish banks may be on the hook for nearly €23bn worth of Spanish debts of various varieties, including sovereign, corporate and bank debts.
}
We should not be trying to save the inept muppets whose imperial ambitions drove this debacle onwards. The last thing the Irish Imperialist ethic needs is a bailout.
Meanwhile in a move which could be only titled “there’s one for everyone in the audience” the GP have decided to insult us with our own money before we have earned it. In a move that is pure PR stuntery, and designed to take attention away from the bailouts offered to the rich, the GP will start a new manoevre called bailouts for everybody.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/struggling-homeowners-in-line-for-helping-hand-from-govt-444278.html
This is hilariuous. Boil told us that we needed banks far more than we needed factories. So under the GP the factories have been laying people off everywhere. But the banks are being saved. This is the real situation. Forget the PR nonsense from the media. The GP control the Ministry of Communications and thereby they control RTE. So basically the GP don’t care if you get laid off. You can cycle to the dole office.
And as a result of their ideological stance against manufacturing, the GP can now claim to be the heroes throwing money from those still lucky enough to be in a job at those who are banjaxed as a result of GP stupidity.
They get votes from the bottom and money from the top. A bit like Bertie Ahern really. Is Gormless the new Ditherer ???
The family home.
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard different (so-called) commentators and (so-called) experts talk about people being helped to keep ‘d’family home’.
This is one of Gilmore’s and Burton’s favourite call to arms.
The first time this reared it’s head in the public eye was with our old friends – the developers – most of whom transferred ownership of the ‘d’family home’ to their wives, in case the banks or NAMA went after their house.
In those cases, ‘d’family home’ was a mansion on Ailesbury or Shrewsbury Road, or a fine pad in Mount Merrion.
It doesn’t stop there. Everywhere I listen now, I hear that people must be helped to keep ‘d’family home’. But what does that mean. Let’s take an example. What about the guy who overborrowed to buy say a 5-bed detached house in Dalkey? He now is completely unable to meet his loan obligations. Should he be bailed out so he can keep ‘d’family home’.
Absolutely not.
Just because you got a loan to buy a pad in an uppity part of town doesn’t mean you have a right to plant your flag in it, and claim you can’t move somewhere else, somewhere cheaper. What’s wrong with a 3-bed semi in Clondalkin?
Well, this is the crux of the issue. Because, in the eyes of a lot of these people, there’s a hell of a lot wrong with a 3-bed semi in Clondalkin. They believe they have a right to the 5-bed in Dalkey, their kids go to a good school, and meet ‘nice’ people, and so on.
They cannot comtemplate living somewhere cheaper, or somewhere less idyllic. And they use the emotional blackmail tactic of hiding behind ‘d’family home’ to gain sympathy for themselves, and hope that everyone else will bail out their lifestyle.
Now, the guy in the 2-up 2-down, or the 1 or 2 bed apartment, in an run-of-the-mill area, I can sympathise with.
But it is sickening to see all ‘family homes’ lumped under a single heading, as though they are all the same. As though these people are protecting the social fabric of their families, and of society in general.
This movement to rescue ‘d’family home’, unless it is very strictly regulated, will (in some cases) be an excuse for the sensible folks to bail out the reckless. It could also turn into a bailout for the average Irish snob out there, who couldn’t contemplate a move down the ladder, to a ‘lesser’ area.
Paddy
Paddy – the only one who deserves sympathy is the ordinary individual who lost their job and cannot afford to live an even reasonable standard of living.
The clowns who live to excess should not be given tax revenues to help them continue their unsustainable existence. They live in a ‘them or us’ world. They expect services to get cut instead of tax breaks to be rolled back. They expect PAYE to carry the state not corporation tax.
I am also very wary of the latest government scheme to help mortgage holders indifficulty.
It will be political. There will be a quango to run it – because the local authorites are dominated by opposition parties. And it will probably function as a means of propping up the reisdential property market. But it will be marketted to the population as an unprecendented act of benovelence.
Paddy.
‘d’family’ home is code.
The political interests are merely using coded language to communicate to the property owning class DO NOT WORRY.
They are trying to keep the feudal side of control through the ranks in a becalmed state.
The last thing they want is a collapse of support from the property owner class cos this will precipitate a power shift and jeopardize their
positions.
So they are on a continued media drive to spoof that they will provide a NAMA for them, which is a lie cos its every man for himself now and the elites at the top in ireland are burying the swag.
FAS. More junkets.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/fas-report-outs-52-spouses-on-single-state-trip-2041517.html
I find the 8900 Euro spent on alcohol during lunch particularly revealing. I mean there are people who would be sacked tomorrow morning if they started work under the influence of alcohol. But in FAS the top dogs can arrive from lunch half sozzled. And when they get sacked they get 3.8 Million in ‘consideration of services rendered’.
You could not make it up.
Actually correction required. We have not been told how much was spent on alcohol during lunch hour.
But 8900 Euro was spent on golf club fees. Now you know how Ireland is run !!