Yesterday the, largely ceremonial, president of Iceland stood up for what is right. He decided that it was not democratic for the Icelandic government to insist that the Icelandic people pay foreign depositors who deposited money in Icelandic banks that subsequently went bust.
The president refused to sign the parliament’s bill, which would have penalised the Icelandic people for the mistakes of the executives of the Icelandic banks. He concluded that this was not reasonable as the banking mess was not the fault of the average Icelander. Iceland will have a referendum on the issue now.
This move implies that Iceland might jeopardise its access to IMF funds as well as definitely knock back its aspirations to join the EU.
The official line peddled by the international bureaucrats is that standing up for the small guy undermines Iceland’s credibility. However, the president decided that if credibility in the eyes of the foreign investors comes via hoodwinking the average Icelandic citizen into footing the bill for a mistake the financial markets facilitated, then it was better to be not credible.
This type of credibility undermines democracy and the basic idea that the government represents the people. In so doing he has stood up for something which is now, sadly, profound and unusual in modern politics — he is championing the interests of the small man in a small democracy.
At the press conference, President Olafur Grimsson referred to a petition which raised signatures from thousands of ordinary citizens who were set against bailing out the banks at the people’s expense. The petitioners went on to argue that foreign depositors (mainly Dutch and British) took out deposits in Icelandic banks because the banks were offering interest rates that were much higher than in the UK or Holland. In economics the iron rule is, the higher the return offered, the higher the risk offered.
The Icelanders are simply saying that your investments have nothing to do with us and, therefore, the solution to the depositors’ dilemma is not the immediate concern of the average cod fisherman from the Westman Island or any other part of Iceland for that matter.
In a country where the president occupies a similar position to our own, this was only the second time a president has ever declined to sign a parliamentary bill.
The Icelandic story is a mirror image of Ireland’s. However, unlike the Irish case where the average person is being asked to pay the bondholders of the banks — the creditors who speculated on such gems as Anglo Irish Bank — the Icelanders are taking a different tack.
They have decided that the people — not the elites or the “insiders” — must decide. This country clearly is a proper democracy; not one run by politicians who are part of an insider group up to their teeth in property and who can’t see that they represent the people, not the elite.
In its most simple terms, Iceland is a country with a banking system attached. In contrast, Ireland is a banking system with a country attached to it.
In the past five years, the Icelandic banks behaved precisely like our own. They lent to anyone and anything but, in the main, they lent to their mates. When they ran out of Icelandic deposits, they borrowed abroad to finance their expansion. They issued debts and when they could no longer issue enough debt, they took in deposits.
When the system crashed, the foreign depositors and the bondholders got caught. You can rightly ask what in God’s name were English depositors doing putting their life savings into Icelandic banks that they had never heard of?
Now let us move to the ramifications of the Icelanders’ democratic stance. Officials are aghast. According to the men who run the Department of Finance here, if we were to do something similar and negotiate a deal with our foreign bank creditors, Ireland would be declared a pariah. They claim interest rates would rocket and the world would shun us.
If their view is right, interest rates in Iceland should have jumped yesterday on the news of a referendum. But they didn’t — Icelandic interest rates hardly budged from their present 7pc.
By the way, when I was in Reykjavik last May interest rates stood at 15pc. Yes, they are high, but interest rates in Iceland are coming down in line with inflation, as any basic economic textbook would predict.
More significantly, long-term interest rates, which gauge the long-term risk in a country, have also fallen to 7pc in Iceland.
This means investors believe there is no real extra risk in Iceland in the future. My guess is that Iceland’s credit rating will rise on this news, not fall.
The reason for this counterintuitive stance is the same reason John Maynard Keynes argued against reparations being imposed on Germany after the First World War. Keynes argued that if you impose the debts of a past regime on a new regime, the economy and politics will suffer.
In a similar vein, the Icelandic president has decided that it is unfair to lumber the average citizen with the sins of Iceland’s financial generals. The specific case in Iceland involves one bust bank, but has ramifications for the whole country. Foreign depositors are owed €3.8bn by Icebank.
The EU stipulated that the average Icelandic citizen should pay €12,000 each to cover this. The EU and the IMF said further aid to Iceland is dependent on this deal. This president has stated that if the price of this EU and IMF help is penalising the citizen, then it is a price so high that it must be passed by referendum. In short, the outsiders (the citizens) should not be forced to bail out the insiders (the banks).
In their president, the outsiders in Iceland have a champion. Who champions the outsiders in Ireland? Who in our political class shouts stop, enough is enough? Who is prepared to say there is a difference between right and wrong?
Finally, who has the courage to point out that, in financial terms, far from being penalised, Iceland is being rewarded by gradually falling interest rates.
In Ireland we can’t tell the difference between right and wrong, and worse still, we are not even getting the supposed financial bonanza for being “good boys” and siding with the international bankers. We are still paying nearly twice as much as Germany to borrow money.
Iceland is showing our politicians another way. These are not easy decisions — and it would have been much better if the country had never got into this mess — but at least they are dealing with it. Similarly, it would have been better if we never got into this mess too, but here we are.
Iceland proves that there is an alternative — are any of our politicians, from the President down, prepared to listen?
Fellow contributors, this is a landmark article from Brendan Keenan.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-keenan/brendan-keenan-there-will-be-no-success-unless-we-improve-the-way-we-do-our-business-2002678.html
As I have said several times before, Ireland does not mean business. Ireland means nonsense, deceit, pretence, official versions of the truth, coverups, pride protection, low levels of accountability, crooked cliques, cronyism, market rigging, management incompentence, authority, and dishonesty.
Well done Brendan Keenan – Ireland needs reform in respect of authority. And the best place to start would be to eliminate the fee that is charged to find out what is going on inside state and semi-state(so called ‘PUBLIC’ organizations.
There is a lot of excitement in the media about Peter Robinson currently. I have to say I am really impressed with Peter Robinson’s willingness to be forthright about his position. It makes a considerable contrast to the way that FF members were making protests to the broadcasting commision when TV3 told the nation that the Minister for Finance had cancer. As a result of TV3 breaking the story, the Minister had to issue a statement. Which was predictably enough turned into a heroic saga by RTE and IndoNew Group. Personally I think it would be better for the country and the minister’s health if he took a break for six months. The minister’s approach makes a considerable contrast with the work ethic (sic) of such notaries as Groucho Marx, Martin Cullen, Michael Martin, and Dick Roche – none of which seem to be doing any ministerial work anymore. Interestingly there was an excellent interview of Groucho Marx on the Eamonn Keane show on Newstalk. Groucho was completely encircled.
I am not concerned about Minister Dempsey not being in the country when the crisis exists. I do not want Minister Dempsey to take charge of matters. Because it only ever ends in a disaster. I would be only be concerned in Dempsey flew home to take matters into his own hands. When he is abroad, it is damage limitation. The last thing we need is Noel Dempsey in a crisis.
Well, OK, maybe that is harsh. The last thing we need in a crisis is Martin Cullen. Noel Dempsey is the second last person you need in a crisis.
Breaking News !! This has not been reported on any other website tonight.
Minister Noel Dempsey has just returned to Ireland as can be seen in the 1st photo here, as he greets press photographers from his limo.
http://www.dailyfill.com/15-Most-Memorable-Dumb-And-Dumber-Moments-39591/
He goes on to pick up Minister Cullen who has let his hair grow out a little to suit his smokin, shoot from the hip, Huey flying bravado lifestyle.
>Motor related taxation 2006/07 levels : – €5.6BN
> cost per hour of transport-related chaos to local Dublin economy: – €40m.
http://www.insideireland.ie/index.cfm/section/news/ext/irelandweather001/category/1084
And how many lives, broken bones etc by just not telling the truth up front and LEADING?
>>>Putting John Gormless in charge 3 weeks into the crisis, with very few ‘weapons’, just the grit between his teeth: – Priceless.
“Just when I think you couldn’t be any dumber, you go and do something like this… and totally redeem yourself!”
“That’s another fine mess you’ve got me into”
P. Robinson was ‘forthright’ because he knew BBC Spotlight programme had the goods in spades. Info. in the programme, if accurate, was pretty daming.
Dempsey on holidays sumned up the contempt this government has for people. Gormless put in ‘charge’ of the national response three weeks in and the salt having run out again sums it up. This on top of the flood debacle………it is ineptitude layered on contempt, what are paying these guys and dolls again?
There is a lot of critique on the radio concerning the manner in which the local authorities have adapted to the crisis.
I understand that Donegal County Council have 1200 KM of road to look after, and the worst of the snowfalls. It seems that they are doing admirably in the context of what they must address. Also we should note that Donegal Council have 40 depots and will give grit to local groups who are prepared to put it on designated local roads. A case of a community in action.
I am working in West Dublin – and I can say that have the people inthe office today are resident/from county Kildare. Kildare Council have been on the case, gritting all primary and secondary roads. There is evidence of sand in the snow on all secondary roads, and the primary routes especially the N7 are like any other day. People in Kildare seem to not think there is a crisis at all, and are surprised to hear stories about all the ice on the roads on the on the main routes in the approaches to Dublin.
I have also seen the parts of the national road network that is in the responsibility of South Dublin County Council. And it is another lesson in how not to do something. There was an inch of ice on the M4 outside Liffey Valley yesterday. For a length of two miles. Each side of the motorway. The snow each side was pristine white. No sand was placed on the motorway. The M50 was gritted, and was covered in slush. But before that the Southern stretch of the M50 was getting abuse on the Joe Duffy show. The Red Cow roundabout was dangerous. Secondary roads in SW Dublin are still extremely dangerous. It seems that the geniuses running SDCC never went to any of the nearby sandpits to get gravel to deal with the crisis. The contrast in the state of the roads in these two neighbouring local authority areas was best exemplified by the fact that the N4 in Leixlip was fine, and the N4 in Lucan was a death trap. The roads in South Dublin County Council should be avoided. But don’t worry – nobody will get sacked. Instead everyone in authority is talking about an unprecendented cold spell, and a shortage of salt. Why not use sand when you have no salt ?
Donegal is trying to do it’s best. South Dublin County Council is Dithering. And clearly Kildare means business. Different institutional cultures. Doctors differ. Patients suffer !!
Deco , how about that clown O’Dea on the radio today saying the reason the Army was’nt out helping with the big freeze was because they were’nt asked. Minister for Defence, ahhhh Jasus, is he going back to his second childhood or wat. There’s old people trying to get about and feed themselves, falling and finishing up in Hospital with broken bones and this fucking clown from Limerick is telling us thats he’s sitting on his stupid dumbass because he was’nt asked. Just keep him the hell out of my way if I ever visit Limerick.
O’Dea (Groucho Marx) is making excuses for the fact that the (drinks) cabinet are only sobering up now after the Christmas break that started last November. He told Eamon Keane that the cabinet would be meeting next week.
Keane then remarked – “Next Week ??? that will be week number 4 since the cold spell started, what sort of a response is that ? ” As usual O’Dea protested that Keane was not letting him speak. O’Dea continued with the usual drivel….’of course we are concerned’….I have asked the Army Chiefs to be on standby….I made the army available during the floods….even though that was a different type of crisis…we were waiting to be asked….but nobody asked us….”
Look the clown only woke up to the problem this morning. It is a case of Groucho trying to stage a PR stunt and pretend that he is doing something about it. Unfortunately there are enough idiots in Limerick who think that he is one of their own, and a great fellow, that the clown is gauranteed to be in the next Dail.
The strange thing is that the local authorities will probably all have gotten their acts together by the time central govenment (D2) has a plan on how to deal with it. I understand that because the local authorities have no money to buy material, that they have been asking the biggest importer of salt to import massive quantities of salt, and wait for them to have the cash in a few weeks when it comes from central government. This is typical of the method of government that exists in this country. Local groups, the IFA, the GAA etc.. are asking the councils to provide grit and they will do the layering on the road. In Donegal this is already in progress. In other counties it is virtually impossible because it shows up the incompetence in governance from those local authorites.
Sometimes a crisis is provides clear indications of which arms of the public state sector are the most mismanaged. But, anyway, nobody will get sacked for incompetence. Sure look, Fingers did not get sacked from INBS – he retired gracefully.
Deco,
Unfortunately, Groucho will be re-elected in Limerick. His vote is a personal vote, rather than party political. He gets things done for his constituents who attend his clinics. His staff listen to every query, and follow up the query right to the end. Peter Power (FF), same constituency, will be in trouble.
The major point is that all these jokers ‘are elected representatives’ – I personally think there should be legislation preventing any and all these people from having side businesses and interests, they are paid public servants but seem to spend the majority of their time serving themselves.
They go on about constituency work, outside hours etc but many have other jobs including directorships, major company interests and of course old ’40 gaffs’ – surely this is inappropriate especially at a time of ‘national crisis’.
Tull,
It is unlikely for you to see him if you visit Limerick. He’s not your typical Limerickman, he is your typical Fianna Fail man.
I left Cork heading West last Monday and the road was full of Kerry County Council lorries loaded with salt brought into Cork docks.
But not a Cork Co Co gritter to be seen and the road was lethal.
Sin mo sceal fein.
And this is what they did in 1982 when they had a lot less money than we have now: -
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/storm-troopers-fought-1982-freeze-2002695.html
And Garret Fitzgerald flew home and ended his holidays abruptly. Not because it was one more man with a shovel, or one more macrobrain on site. but because it was his PLACE. He was elected, after all.
We used to say that the difference between Ireland and Iceland was one letter and 6 months. Looking around at our countryside and capital city, it looks pretty much like Iceland to me! Except that we’re wallowing in denials of reality. Has the dept of Finance been filtering the weather forecasts for the Cabinet or are they getting the same info we are?
Why would we have dozens upon dozens of new army trucks, 4x4s etc that the EU nudged us to buy but they’re parked up while citizens wonder what exactly they pay tax for.
The poitin industry could be an improver this year……….
Behind a web of bottles, bales,
Tobacco, sugar, coffin nails.
The gombeen like a spider sits,
Surfeited and for all his wits,
As meagre as the tally-board
On which his usuries are scored.
if people in this country want change they must start to bring this about themselves by banding together with others to start a new movement of voice and people from this, a new way of governing the country can be formed and it is only by doing so that the current masters of our island shall be deplaced and the full truth about what has happened to this nation of ours shall come to light.
It is time people started to raise there game in relation to what is actually happening here and not drift along dead in the water as the present parties want us to.
http://newirish.blogspot.com/2010/01/politics-in-new-ireland.html
petercice,
Scoundrels exist throughout Irish society. It will not be easy to change. It’s not just a matter of getting rid of the current politicians, bankers, senior civil servants, union leaders and the like.
We’ve all worked for these Scoundrels, be it in the private or public sector. They want others to do the work and they want to claim all the benefit. This is why change in Ireland is unlikely IMO. We can try, but need to accept it’s going to be very difficult
Look at the GAA and how it is run for example, there is always someone somewhere jostling for power.
Explosion of Ideas must be heard to be listened to otherwise watch Coronation Street and eat your M&M’s
What about the ideas website 12 months ago, a lot of blogging there and some greats ideas. As well as attracting foreign investment into the country we must think of ways of keeping money in the economy. Would a 10% rebate on accommodation for holidaying within the republic be one little incentive to achieving this.
Prices are proving to be stickey in some areas, but that’s not uncommon when an economy contracts. I think you might find that the Banks/ Insurance co’s are keeping holiday prices inflated as they try to extract unsustainable yields from hotels etc. which they have funded. Remember that its always the Banks that are last to starve in an Economy. From my own position I hav’nt dropped the price of a single item here in my pub in South Kerry ever.
I will cross the Mountain and visit this establishment Tull.
Provided the Cork – Kerry Border Wars don’t prevent said fact finding tour……..
Tull,
Prices are dropping in Limerick. You can get a pint of Guinness for €3.40 in some establishments, and I’m not talking about “My Mothers” run by the Kellys in Southill.
As we collectively scratch in the greasy till, as the ‘business community’ seeks (through IBEC, Small Business Association and chambers of commerce) to crush working people even further by cutting the minimum wage, the larger global game continues afoot.
The rise of the East is indicated nicely in the opening paragraph of this article, State Capitalsm/Neoliberalism has had its day, export orientated, open economies (depsite corporate tax rate of 12.5%) will have to think again.
http://www.newstatesman.com/2009/06/western-world-china-state
And for the artist and those who still seek romance and beauty amidst the economic chaos imposed by other people, there is always something like this -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ednWfMAEXSY&feature=related
Actually the business community in Ireland are more concerned with price setting for stuff they sell, than the labour they buy.
As evidenced in Eddie Hobb’s soapbox documentary “Rip Off Republic”. It was such a sensation, that Seanie Fitz labelled it a “dangerous introduction into Iris society – something which should not be tolerated”. Soon afterwards Hobbs was downgraded to personal finance, and there was no repeat. It was the gombeen’s nightmare.
Forget the minimum wage. It is too high to compete internationally. So also are the prices that we are having to pay for property, newspapers, electricity, banking services, second hand cars, etc, etc..
IBEC will be wanting to reduce the minimum wage. But don’t expect the members of IBEC to be co-operative with the (light touch) competition authority which does nothing about the rampant market rigging and price setting in the Irish economy…..
Hi David,
It goes back to basics of how capitalism works. Return rate is geared from the odds of payout. We take risks with everything we do. In the Icelandic case the depositors took a fat premium rate which corresponded
to the risk of not being payed back. It’s how capitalism works folks. There are no guarantees in life, banks can fail, even states can fail. The latter, while happens not very often, is why government bonds pay lower than bank bonds. The risk is less but nobody was led to believe risk wasn’t there. As the investor, the bondholder and the depositor – we all take risks when giving our money to another
In effect the interest rate is a measure of ability to pay back. If there was some ultimate ‘communal’ responsibility, then there would be no real risk and banks could set any rate they liked. For those that think the collective should pay for the risk taker – Do they also believe that the risk taker should pay back the fat premium that they took for many years?
Oh, Dear!
I have tried to “switch-off” from this site, for the last couple of weeks (because I am “hooked” and my wife asked me to give it a break – so, I complied.)
The result is, we have been limited to the mainstream media for our news – and that is very unsatisfactory.
Now, she accepts that davidmcwilliams.ie is an essential.
So, it shall remain.
(For instance, what is wrong with using our abundance of salt-water to melt the ice and snow? Couldn’t tankers be filled with sea-water spray every road in the country and sort the problem-out?).
As a hazardous guess, it would appear from comments made by Brendan McDonagh, CEO NAMA tonight, that the success of NAMA and thereby the reelection of FF overrides the needs or wishes of those who are in no longer in a position to support the Party any more.
Now that would make a great article………….
Tim -
one cannot charge a price, its abundant and free for all too go and get, which is the way it should be.
Tim: Firstly, my compliments to your wife and kudos for her insisting that you put family first over Christmas.
Secondly, sea-water (just 35 parts per million of NaCl) freezes at -1.9˚C, not much below f p of fresh water. It gets diluted by snow so the freezing point is even closer to fresh water. Therefore if you spray it on the road you just create a skating rink.
Temperature of sea-water around the west coast seldom falls below +3˚C so that’s why there are no icebergs out there. Inland fresh waters get a lot colder.
Better to use sand as a salt substitute. (Plays havoc with your windscreen of course, so cover with cling film.)
(Correction (getting late) 35 parts per thousand, not million.)
Malcolm McClure, is that so?
Ooops!
Correction (getting late) 35 parts per thousand, not million.
Surely, that improves it’s chances of working?
tim -
Keep at it and while your at it read this book.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-first-huffpost-book-c_b_412999.html
Thanks for the link Wills, it is obvious that our gombeens are just aping the guys across the pond, it is all a show.
Tim,
Tried to do the same thing here and my family thinks I am mad. I had to comply a little a bit but no too much. :-)
The more you read the more you learn, the more you learn the more you believe that action is needed now. We have waited long enough there is no faith in the present political system in ireland, we are no more than our colonial oppressors and this cant continue.We have to come togther as a union, a grouping intent on bringing down this contrived idea of an economy, a state, a political rabble, we are an embaresment to ourselves, how will we be able to look our neighbour, children and friends in the face if we dont act. EVIL WILL PROSPER IF GOOD MEN DO NOTHING(girls your more than welcome to join in). We are being led by our bank accounts, our taxes, and future down the craper not just by Fianna Fail but also an inept opposition who would be in powerif they had the trust of the people.
Mary mcaleese is a product of our political system, a media darling, and a narcasist who loves the spotlight and wont go against the system.
Academics of stature, people who believe in what is good for the common man have to stand up for and with us,
let us unite together before its too late.
Hi All
May i recommend a book for you all to read “The Ascent of Money” by Niall Ferguson. Basically it is a history of money and how our financial system came into being.
This is also on You Tube, if you cannot get the book.
I have a question, are appartments leasehold, where does there value lie, where does the value in a jerri-built housing estate come from. The laws of Demand and Supply went out the window years ago, the demand may have been in the market for homes but what was being supplied was an inferior good whos value was inflated therefore distorting the equilibrium, This leads on to NAMA, they will pay a distorted premium for a housing stock of poor quality. Also when this housing stock hits the market quality housing stock will lay idle because as anecdotale evidence has it the banks want to get rid of this stock and will make you jump through hoops to get finance for what you want.
FF & FG have sold the nation a lemon we havent bitten it yet………………….
Big Willie -
Lets take a look at market capitalism in Ireland in relation too property.
- wholesale dealers buy and sell properties based on bribing councillors to secure land re zoning using wedges of illicit cash thereby pushing land values from zero too gold.
- builders buy the land which is now selling for a rigged price.
- builders build house and put it on market for sale at a rigged price to re coup paying out rigged price to wholesale land middle man.
- House now on market for triple whammy rigged price must hold fake price too keep builder sweet so to keep wholesale land middle man sweet so too be able to bribe for re zoning.
- To hold triple whammy rigged price the supply of housing stock must be controlled and the circle closes back too the councillors who rule over zoning rights to build.
- Then just to add insult to injury, the buyer of the house itself will toddle along to bank for the monies to give to builder for house and the bank will of course the original lenders out for the whole saler to buy the land and original lenders to builder to build house will lend out to joey bloggs to buy house and lend it all out out of thin air and be paid handsomely for lending paper and be protected by the taxpayer if the bank becomes bonkers on greed and splurges all savers monies at monaco.
-
and willie we are all told by the pillars of society that the above ‘triple whammy price rigging’ is free market capitalism.
We, the general chisler public, will be told, the ‘triple whammy price rigging’ is normal.
Willie, we will be told, sure this is the way they do it in the UK and the good ‘ol US of A so if its good for them its good for us too.
We will be told it s the way the free market works and there is no other way and sure it benefits everyone in the end anyway so whats the proooblem…..!!!
We will be told, willie, told that, sure we ought to be glad that we are getting a roof over our heads and sure back in the day we all lived in damp thatched cottage with a pig in the parlour.
We will be told that the ‘triple whammy price rigging’ is all part of life and sure this is the best system there is and sure we’re all in this together we’re all on the take and sure we’re all at it and at least houses are getting built begob.
And i say willie, i say, NO, this is not the system only available. I say there is a system which can provide a roof over evryones head, everyone, every poor dog and divil out on the streets tonight even if they are a drunk, i say willie there is a free market system there for us all too enjoy and prosper from.
But what do people like me know, i’m not one of the boys flashing around the halls of power with access and power and cock of the walk gait.
wills, that was magic.
Well put, Wills
I used to work for a property developing branch of the bank the biggest bank in Holland.
Phase 1: In the late 70′s and early 80′s this bank started by buying land and building enormous shopping centers. Then they thought they might as well build apartments on top of these shopping areas. Then they build single houses surrounding the areas, etc. There was no separate property developer involved in this setup at all.
Phase 2: Then after a while the general public got suspicious about this big bank generating all that property. That is when this same bank decided to separate the two entities to look it less obvious.
It created an entity in property developer format. It had a separate name, logo, etc. But still, I was a bank employee an payed by the bank.
Phase 3: It created more separate entities in “house builder” format. So this time the general public thought they were dealing with innocent home builders. (Not sure but I think this formula is a widely used all over the world. )
Phase 4: Separate the whole setup altogether. However, it took sometime for the public to see (believe) that banks and property developers are actually two different entities.
Phase 5: When new developments are on the way, the existing and finished developments are downgraded. The media is to look after this downgrading. In addition, The media tried to hike the property market up but not really successfully simply because there was a not a house ownership culture in Holland.
Then the crises of the 80′s started and …
Phase 6: The government took control of this and it developed a scheme that property can only be priced according to ones income. A so called premium scheme whereby the government was in control of the pricing structure. This is not to be compared to the affordable housing and first time buyers schemes we have.
In parallel to this scheme there is the free sector area. In essence these were existing properties in sought after area whereby the owners of properties can decide their own price.
I think when Ireland started the property boom the banks skipped phased 1 and 2. The banks started looking for men who was willing to take the whole project on and in return they get funding from the bank for whatever they need. So they are not employed by the bank. While these houses and shopping centers are being build the banks will make sure the public is prepared for these mass products coming on the market. The early 90′s is when I moved to Ireland and the first thing I noticed was that phase 4 and 5 is has been implemented and in (beginning to bloom). Not sure if there is a phase 6 but certainly it is brought to a next level in Ireland as we all know. A level of mass manipulation that is probably not seen since the creation of consumerism by Edward Bernays.
I do think there is one good thing from this culture of home ownership. Just imagine if there is a culture in Ireland of renting instead of buying like in many European countries. Just imagine if Irish landlords had a bigger stake in the property market. The gap between the abused and abuser will be so big that serious human rights issues are at risks and Ireland would never got into any boom.
Bamboo -
thank you for this much appreciated, keep with us here and keep posting up like this and i for one will soak your intel up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB_d7-eYgHI
We should be doing something similar against NAMA
Brilliant link to a brilliant economist, thanks :-)
MR. Kelly I knew there was more to you than the tour of Flanders, no matter what Van Der Arden said.
Sean_Kelly, “We should be doing something similar against NAMA”.
We did; and we marched against it in Dublin,
But there was only me, wills, and 498 other people, apparently.
Let’s keep at it!
The newage cronies marching for “”NAMA MUST FAIL AT ALL COSTS OTHERWISE WE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT”
There was a man, a lonely man
Who lost his love through his indifference
A heart that cared, that went unshared
Until it died in his silence
And Solitaire’s the only game in town
And every road that takes him, takes him down
And by himself, it’s easy to pretend
He’ll never love again
And keeping to himself he plays the game
Without her love it always ends the same
While life goes on around him everywhere
He’s playing Solitaire
Another day, a lonely day
So much to say that goes unspoken
And through the night, his sleepless nights
His eyes are closed, his heart is broken
And Solitaire’s the only game in town
And every road that takes him, takes him down
And by himself it’s easy to pretend
She’s coming back again
And keeping to himself he plays the game
Without her love it always ends the same
While life goes on around him everywhere
He’s playing Solitaire
“Caring is sharing” – and we are all sharing in NAMA.
Only in Ireland. Simon and Garfunkel will be filling the airwaves for a few days.
http://web.mit.edu/arushi11/www/lyrics_SimonAndGarfunkel.html
High Snow Banker – ……..and along arrived the CAB …………….on the 7th day ………and God Made The World .
Maybe Iceland is gambling on the wholesale meltdown of the system – The Ultimate Devalution
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0108/1224261885479.html
Whilst on Eireanns green and rocky shores, blogging altruisms are now repeated by mainstream media editorials –
http://www.examiner.ie/opinion/editorial/a-frozen-country–different-crisis-but-same-lesson-109190.html
Tis all an Echo Bubble as our friend Mr Fell says above.
My simple little way of knowing if things are on the up is when the Baltic Dry Index flies through the roof. Then commodities are actually being shipped for manufacture because of real demand. Any other stock market improvements is just funny money profit taking by middlemen.
Over to you wills…………..
Ws reading sbout Van Rompuy’s speech (El Presidente d’Europa). We need to double Europe growth rate to 2%!!! Certainly not a an investors appetiser for sure. I think sovereign debt crisis is upon us and in spite of central banks willingness to keep incestiously buying from one another (rather like the property bubble), the whole lot will crumble fast.
Consider a situation where no one has a job. What then? If we were honest, there is no commercial reason for many of the companies who operate here to be here in the first place. Ireland’s unique selling proposition is invisible…hell, even the tourists find this place boring!! Magical Ronan Keating is our last hope!
This place needs a full restart…asap before we become totally braindead.
I honestly have the impression, that despite everything that has happened, people still don’t realise just how bad things are and will be this year, year zero. No jobs coming down the line (not to the extent we need) and very precarious situation for such an exposed and heavily indebted country, I can’t possibly see how the worst could be over (in the words of Brian Lenihan) – such hollow senitments come from the same people who initially exposed our economy, failed to see the bust and have consistently got exchequer returns wrong – again, what are we paying these guys?
Celente Forecasting
http://www.trendsresearch.com/index.htm
Furrylugs -
The production of massive amounts of debt too provide the ‘people’ with the funds to consume the year after year increase in production across the world.
The ‘debt honey trap.’
A parlour game of the super class gentlemen thieves and clever clog tricksters.
Open the ‘debt’ valves and flood the system with debt.
What is this parlour game i speak on the ruling classes are up too?
I amy say also, NAMA is like a mop soaking up debt.
What are the owners of production actually up too?
Wills,
more on your super class gentlemen thieves.
http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/the-changing-role-of-the-nation-state/
Thanks Ruairi, great website been checking it out, if anymore please put up links, brilliant.
You can only fight these conditions to a certain level. Tossing salt on the roads only achieves so much. Snowtyres…which are required by law in Germany…cost a lot less than conventionsl tyres. Essentially they are soft rubber remolds. Can our busfleets not be adapted at least to solve some of the problem?
I wonder how Iceland does it…dreadful financial pariahs they are!!!
Robinson was forthright because he knew BBC Spotlight programme had the goods in spades.
East meets West or does it?
Cantillon ….an 18th century Irishman …he says :
Entrepreneur is – a person who buys at a known or certain price and sells at an unknown or uncertain price .If his assessment is true he makes a profit .
The following is FF doctrine :
NAMA is – a Corrupt Slave Trader that buys at an unknown and uncertain price and sells us all down the tube.There is no assessment only conspiricy to corrupt the public interest.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/0108/1224261885616.html
@Malcolm
Who’s to blame? That question should be the basis for any inquiry into the mess.
I would say its a relatively small cartel of politicians, bankers (Seanie/Fingers et al) , in cahoots with developers and with a major role played by DoF, who led the charge into our Waterloo.
Bankers’ greed attracted by free availability of money, bonuses and an absent regulatory environment played another huge role in this.
Also plain lack of professional expertise and smart wisdom at the political and banking levels.
Most of all though, again, just my opinion, and subject to an inquiry we badly need, is the DoF mandarins who should ultimately be responsible for a correctly functioning regulatory system given the extent of their knowledge of our economic environment.
I’d look at the role played by the ECB in particular its support of the NAMA(Not Another Mess Again) project given by Almunia http://ec.europa.eu/commission_barroso/almunia/index_en.html which is an albatross around our neck to do us more harm.
I doubt if RTE which often appears to be a propoganda arm of both church state in Ireland, in spite of the good work done by some broadcasters, will get anywhere near where an inquiry could go!
A relatively small group led us over the cliff. They still lead our banking, political, DoF, world of finance and politics.
Its time to shine some light on their hiding places!
cbweb: “I doubt if RTE which often appears to be a propoganda arm of both church state in Ireland, in spite of the good work done by some broadcasters, will get anywhere near where an inquiry could go!”
There is a striking contrast between RTE’s pussyfooting around all the scandals in the south and BBC’s taking the bull Robinson by the horns in the north.
(My original point was that we are all to blame. The government’s prime responsibility is to uphold the constitution, and this they failed to do by failing to regulate the banks’ excesses. Who put them there?)
I didn’t put them there Malcolm. Why should I be blamed?
Colin_in_Exile_and_word_twister.
Why cant we blame you – you are having a good old session at the blame game yourself?
Because I didn’t gamble, I didn’t misgovern, I am not a crony, I didn’t vote FF, I didn’t get rich, I am unemployed, I am a victim…….but at least I’m healthy – I don’t have to pay someone to listen to how fcuked up I am, unlike you.
Colin_in_Exile_and_word_twister.
Why not go out then and get a qualification as a physco-analyst?
Ireland has to re-invent itself. For instance when Dell puiled out of LImerick – surely we have the know-with-all to get out and make our own computers and feck Dell in the “Free Market”.
PhilRuss,
Because its hard enough to tolerate you here, dealing face to face with the likes of you would do my head in.
Colin_in_Exile_and_word_twister.
Calm down on the hysteria (there are breathing techniques that allow you to do this and then you should probably visit the website of Bryon Katie). Seriously because I have seen how you distorted me saying 1) I knew of property developers fcuked in the head and 2) I had an investment property outside the remit of NAMA – was turned into me being pals with developers and me being accused of failing to disclose interest in NAMA……..
The therapy I have been receiving has allowed me to become a little bit more pragmatic
PhilRuss,
I’m not hysterical, I do not need breathing exercises, but thanks for your concern anyway.
Get well soon.
Colin_in_Exile_and_word_twister.
And one other thing I did last year which was unbelievably ful-filling was that I grew vegetables. My psycologist says this was a basic instinct bought about by fear of not being able to feed my family.
If you have a bit of space – it can even be a pot – then try it. It will be extremely rewarding.
It’s a question of prioritising and accurately apportioning blame, the model I’d use would look at accountability in this situation as a function of how much power was vested in those that wielded the most power, politicians, politicians, developers, DoF insiders
OK, we were wrong to vote for them. We were duped. They had the keys to our future and they gambled away the family silver.
But right now we are facing a crisis of accountability with those who led us into the mess trying to pass their own accountability onto our collective shoulders.
At the same time they are trying to persuade us they will get us out of the mess others ‘in other jurisdictions’ got us into!!!
Once again, we need an inquiry to put these matters to rest.
If such an inquiry tells me as Greenspan does, it was caused by ‘human nature’ or we are told by such an inquiry that some blame should be laid against the Egyptians or another civilisation 10000yrs bc for developing the mathematical models our financial system is based upon, or us voters, because we voted them in, then so be it!
Right now we have a crisis of accountability. We need a full blown inquiry into the root causes of our financial mess asap.
Our financial system needs to be properly lanced and the infection got rid of.
To CBWeb
Ireland has to get into the 21st Century and exorcise itself from the poitical baggage it entwined itself in the 20th Century.
For instance I would like to vote Fine Gael (now that the PDs have gone – and I regret ever having voted for them with Michael McPoodle at the helm). I cant because they will have to hop into bed with Labour (and the cold reality is that we should be counting our blessings it was Fianna Fail in charge over the last decade – because the only people who could have made more of a balls up would be a FG Lab pact).
The little political talent there is lies mainly with a handful of people within the 2 main parties. Would they ever unite and put the future of this country first…….
With that kind of analysis, its no wonder you have to visit a shrink.
Colin_in_Exile_and_word_twister.
Thankyou for supporting the analysis and indeed when FF and FG unite – I feel I will be able to give up my therapy
Phil,
You obviously aren’t well, and I’m sorry to hear that, but you’re positioning yourself as a hostage to fortune by waiting for FF & FG to unite before you get better. FF may follow the PDs into oblivion at this rate anyway.
You need to stand on your own two feet first.
The PD’s are not gone, they just gave themselves cushy jobs in the public sector and then disbanded. Noam Chomsky called the PD’s “wolves in sheeps clothing”. Ireland has 19th century politics and 20th century infrastructure. FG and FF are the same, the play off one another, while screwing the taxpayer. Over the last decade Ireland became dependent on construction, MNCs and the public sector. Yeah thank god FF were in power !!, construction is dead, MNC’s, well, how long more will they stay, and the public sector has become a BEAST, consuming all before it and sucking this country dry. They create over 800 quangos in order to remove themselves from any blame while creating jobs for the boys.
Wills/ furrylugs/tim/ malcolm/deco/ colin/ etc etc :
http://www.fiannafail.ie/content/pages/national-asset-management-agency-nama-questions-and-answers
posters ::::
Key point:
The robinson story is more tittle tattle for the media to distract and keep entertained the sheeple, this story is fodder been tossed out of the manure shed to fill the airwaves.
The politicians are low level puppets distracting the good people of any given society away from seen the ‘real architecture of enslavement’ example of which one will find at John ALLENs link too FF website.
NAMA is part of an ‘architecture of enslavement’.
On Robinson its back too property racketeering again and price rigging. Missus Robinson secured illicit wedges of cash, 50,000 by two and gave it too this supposed hapless valentino who is all a jelly in her company cos his pops popped his clogs.
Yet he at aged 20 can run a cafe!! Which if one can believe has at least three agencies (govenmental) including EU giving him taxpayers monies too fund alongside his secret lover. And this guy is only 20 and here we have a classic insight into the elites running this country.
And NI and Rep of I are all part of the same monopolistic capitalist system.
Here is a comment that I read on another website last year, and it always stuck in my head.
“it has taken 80 years for people on this windswept shithole to realise that we never had independence, just a change of landlord.”
People are waking up
Ha ha, best comment yet, succinct and accurate.
Perhaps in a 100 years time that quote may have evolved to something like “it took 80 years for people on this wind and rain (our best resource in the future?) swept shithole to realise that we made a complete balls up of our independence and might have been better off had we never changed our landlord”
Posters -
Link here to a system ‘putting banks before people’ and do the words ‘nuts oh hazel nuts’ come to mind to anyone of you readers.
The economic system we all in the world live in, whether your chinese, african, russian, european amercian the system is cuckoo.
‘Cuckoo capitalism’ i’m gonna call it from to day.
Monpolistic capitalism under the control of nut jobs.
heres the link, check it out, it is something,
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/americas/hampm-destroying-and-discarding-clothes-it-cannot-sell-in-ny-2004885.html
I am surprised that the “Bonds” proposal which I put forward on page 1, para 17, has received so little response. Some of the comments relating to Iceland are brilliant; but you, ie, Posters, are now spending too much time discussing the weather. I thought that someone might have perceived the potential of my proposal to deal with “negative equity” and how the process of Bond issuance could help to achieve liquidity in the property market.
We need to reflect on the fact that, to date, every household in Ireland has contributed circa 11,000 euros for the bank bailout. Surely there is a case for issuing bonds to all households for such magnanimous generosity. Fractions of “bailout” bonds could be used, for example, as 50% payment for professional services, College fees, etc.
My only experience of the financial world was a long time ago when I was working in Paris. Apart from the “issue” of Bonds, where I hoped a bond expert might have taken me to task, I have, in addition, received very little or no response to my comments on the Report on Remuneration for Higher Civil Servants at: http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2009/12/24/a-christmas-present-for-senior-civil-servants/#comment-30722 (I am not an economist; merely a humble lecturer in information technology)
PERHAPS YOU ALL CONSIDER ME INFALLIBLE!!!
Among my criticisms of the Report: “Given that the Review Body were making comparisons with other European nations, I find it difficult to comprehend why they did not choose the gross-monthly income to achieve initial like-for-like comparisons for BASIC SALARY. Subsequently they might have made adjustments for total earnings over 12 months to arrive at the figure for ADJUSTED INCOME.”
To me it seems that there are a great many irregularities in the Report, but I would appreciate if a professional statistician with an “Anglo-Saxon” perspective would comment thereon.
MY COMMENT ON MR LENIHAN AND THE REPORT (For those of you with a sensitive disposition, I have been abroad since his reported cancer)
The Report is probably at its most disingenuous when considering the remuneration of a High Court Judge. The Review Body would like to make a recommendation for a downward adjustment in the salary for this position. However, on page 29, they remark: “There is a constitutional prohibition on a reduction in the pay of members of the Judiciary . . . . As a result we have not made a recommendation.” Why the reluctance to make a “recommendation”, as an absolute minimum, and let the judge’s conscience be the arbiter? But also, why did they not go a step further and highlight the need for an amendment to the Constitution? In terms of “sharing the pain”, Brian Lenihan SHOULD have insisted on a “recommendation” which would be fully enforceable and have a retrospective effect pending the constitutional change. I note that one journal pointed out that Brian Lenihan’s wife, Patricia Ryan, is a Judge of the Circuit Court.
Paul McD, I have backed your odea as progressive, worthy of enquiry and worthy of being at the very least a framework worth attempting to get closer to.
Why? because unlike Malcolm, who feels that we are collectively responsible for the excesses of the Tiger years, and PhilRuss1, who is self-hating and then projecting that self-hate & redemption trip onto all those around him, instead of being personally responsible for the past and personally powerful “going forward” (copyright Brian Cowen), I do not subscribe to thuggery by the majority which is what majority voting (and paths taken) are if you do not take account of minority interests.
What I am saying is that the very mechanisms that racked up the pent-up rot (land prices) should in some way be a part of the mechanism that doles out the risk / reward / pain on an ongoing basis. Why radically change the structures and the rules Malcolm? Why widen the network? why not have it self-containing and have all those rewarded / penalised according to their connectedness. To have those who so earnestly make decisions for ours and the next generation also umbilically connected to the outcome of their great visions. What is bizarre or unnatural about that?
What is so bizarre for me is that some who can see the rot that was structurally created now think that those who were in no way responsible for structural decisions should share the burden.
Why Malcolm? Please don’t answer me PhilRuss1. I suspect you are not doing enough homework. Oh, answer if you must……..but not me pls :-)
But why Malcolm? Your pronouncement of collective responsibility is akin to the traffic tzar of Dublin (a few short years ago) announcing that certain streets were closed to punters and when asked how they should get about their practical days, his response was, more or less, a tad more polished, but essentially “Ask my arse”.
Do you think that we confer 200K+ salaries (500k+ packages) on many citizens just so that they can frustrate our lives?
We’re not all masochistic Catholic self-haters. Some of us are quite progressive here, and getting better day by day :-D
Entirely by serendipity rather than merit, recently I spent a couple of hours in company of a large group of super-elite discussing a global issue. Their outstanding characteristics were that they were very well informed, reticent, well intentioned, careful listeners, who individually could manage gracefully to keep a lot of balls in the air. They did seem to have the welfare and interests of those who do not possess all those characteristics as a primary objective.
I didn’t agree with everything that was said, but couldn’t fault the sincerity of their intentions. Some people are very gifted.
Everyone else, including me, should reciprocate to the best of our ability, questioning their conclusions constructively with supporting facts when necessary.
Malcolm, I think you misunderstand my bile. I did not aim those derogatory comments via the traffic Tzar directly at you. I respect your mind and your contributions greatly. But with as much reticence as I can muster, I must say that it is way too generalistic of you to say that we are all collectively responsible ()in varying degrees) and therefore we shoudl stand back and accept and then support (by sweat, blood and opportunity cost) the great plans of those you have been so recently taken by. I would also respect such people and their achievements and potentialities; but not to the extent where that gave them preferential steering rights on our society. Asociety where they get to risk and to allocate reward. That’s not my kind of democracy. Only recently you spoke of having great assemblies, the very finest notions of democracy, albeit unwieldy perhaps at times. Now you talk of some of us accepting the yoke of others, where basic saving and investing principles were thrown out the window in the pursuit of impossible “everybody wins” scenarios.
I think you have been dazzled by recent company and i hope the body snatchas exit the Malcolm that I have come to know. Unfortunately, questionable constructive conclusions there. No personal offence meant. But this is a key principle ofor many posters here. No risk, no reward. Socialisation for the rich, capitalism for the poor etc. I am a mini version of those guys you speak of. I am an absolute contraian though. Not a gatekeeper and not a structure-maker. I will not stand quietly while they concensus-theory me to death that I was culpable.
The Ruling powers are a mixed bunch, some good and some closed off in their own little boy wonder bubble.
Kevin Myers is having a go at the shell to sea people. Now I don’t know much about this group of people, but our oil and gas resources were something discussed recently. Perhaps it’s time people send him an email
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-new-force-of-islamic-fundamentalism-in-european-life-confounds-liberals-in-the-media-2004601.html
Tony,
unlike PhilRuss1′s snide remarks in this commentary that David McWilliams & shane Ross will write sensationally and diingenuously to make a buck, take care of their families, that is precisely the modus operandi of Kevin Myers. Mock horror at many culturally offensive things but protection of the common people? The plain earthy people of Ireland as he described them, upon reporting from the National Ploughing Championships a few short years ago? No way. He’s like the TDs and establishment. Ensconced in Dublin.
Because Eirigi and other lunatic movements have been drafted in to use the Mayo site as a training facility, he weakly chooses to be a champion of the strong, a knight for the mighty. Perhaps sleeping with an East Belfast warlord’s mot (maybe only his journalistic Belfast adventure fantasies though) caused him some sort of emotional brain short circuit and now anything resembling republicans, he verbally pukes on.
It was all the establishment were waiting for, the hardliners to start defending those with inalienable rights, and now they’re the bad guys too. Just for being born in the wrong place at the wrong time. And wanting the same civil rights as Statoil grants its Norwegian citizens and staekholders.
Bizarre stuff………but we are in Ireland.
Kevin Myers……..not championing, not funny (shelve that programme sunshine), not much really.
Ruairi – you ARE a psycologist!
Here’s an update;
Friday January 8th 2010, 8:48 pm
The Icelandic parliament has finalised the shape of a national referendum on repaying £3.57 billion to Britain and the Netherlands over the collapse of the Icesave bank – a poll that is seen as a defining moment in the bankrupted country’s economic recovery.
The government was forced into organising the vote after Iceland’s President Olafur Grimsson refused to sign legislation on the repayment into law.
That set off a diplomatic clash with Britain and jeopardised crucial bailout funds promised by the International Monetary Fund and Nordic countries.
MPs agreed on how to phrase the referendum question after a day’s debating. The date of the vote has not yet been decided.
Grimsson had cited a wave of popular opposition as the determining factor in his decision not to sign the so-called Icesave Bill, named after the high-interest-paying internet bank that went bust.
Britain has backed away from claims that Iceland would become an international pariah if the money was not repaid.
As well as appeasing the international community, the embattled Icelandic government is facing the uphill task of winning public support for its efforts to repay the bill as an essential part of Iceland’s recovery from the collapse of its banking sector in October 2008.
Many voters want a greater say in the country’s economic future, blaming the previous government for letting a handful of “venture Vikings” fuel the boom and subsequent bust of its top-heavy banking sector.
They are also angry at what they see as strong-arm tactics by London and the Hague that resulted in the repayment bill being amended on tougher terms, including extending the time limit of the repayment guarantee and removing Iceland’s right to challenge the payment under international law.
Opinion polls differ on whether Icelanders will approve the Icesave Bill. The most recent Gallup poll suggested 53% of people would vote yes, compared to 41% who would vote no, and 6% who would abstain.
http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/iceland-passes-referendum-bill-2005853.html
Test.
Oh, Dear!
http://www.politics.ie/sinn-fein/121903-killian-forde-confirms-politics-ie-he-has-resigned-sinn-fein.html
(wills, are you experiencing a “login issue?)
Folks,
France wants to tax the internet:
http://bit.ly/90Q5l7
Moon Wobble – this is definately a factor in production as we can see around us during this present moon wobble .it will peake on monday .Already earth tremors have occured in Donegal yesterday .Buy more hot water bottles and candles.
There’ll be some wobble John when the salt runs out and they shut primary roads to save Dublin.
Sodom & Gommorah vis a vis Sallins & Greystones???
Posters -
Here it goes again, bonkers banking putting the banks money making scams first, before the real economy, but now, the banks are leaning on the taxpayers monies to carry out this out of control grand larceny on the high banking sea’s.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jan/08/bonus-time-city-banks
[The bonus system in the banks is completely absurd --
it grossly rewards dangerously risky behavior on the part of bankers, and as such it is a huge moral hazard, in effect a theft by the banks against the rest of the economy.
The best way of dealing with this is not to tax the bonuses themselves but rather to discourage unproductive bank activity by stiffening the collateral requirements for banks themselves and taxing transactions.
A disproportionately large share of the bonuses are from reinsurance activities such as derivatives, which are not productive for the general economy and have failed even to do what they were supposed to do, namely manage risk, but which involve hundreds of transactions as assets are reinsured over and over again in the pursuit of a winning bet.
Productive activities like commercial lending, on the other hand, do good things for the economy but involve maybe only one transaction, so the bankers who handle that don't make nearly the bonus. So, instead of nailing the bonuses directly, tax the transactions and regulate the leverage, and banks will find much more productive uses for that bonus money -- commercial lending that does not involve heavy leverage on the part of the bank itself and only involves a small number of transactions per deal.] Comment pasted from link.
The Bracketed ‘inset’ is pasted from the link posted.
Essential reading here folks.
Bruce Arnold – Saturday January 09 2010
Brian Lenihan has put us in an invidious position that cannot last. At a time of great economic crisis he has pledged himself to the crucial job at Finance while undergoing treatment for a most serious form of cancer, its prospective cure rate less than 10pc. However, he has asked that “goodwill” should not impact on “normal political processes”. One of these processes is criticism, so here goes.
The emotional revelations surrounding his illness created a huge over-reaction. This was based on an entirely meretricious belief that respect and privacy for the man and his family should prevail over crucial news. The media are not in the business of gentlemen’s agreements designed to manipulate the truth. We should not make them. If public figures have private lives it is their business to protect them.
This issue has to be seen separately from human sympathy for the man. It has also to be separated from judgment of his public performance. Such judgment has been confused by eulogies on Lenihan’s “masterly” performance as minister and his crucial future handling of the economy. Unless such eulogies stop they will grossly distort everyone’s judgment as we apostrophise the man amid the chaos of what he has done and what he intends in the future.
The truth about him, professionally, is harsh. He understands nothing about economics and he heads a department of State that has been starved of high-grade economists who now mainly work outside the public service. He claims to have been on a learning curve about absolute basics at a time when all basic theories and philosophies about running national economies are themselves bewildering great international economists who have spent their lives in the business.
He has certain pet theories and beliefs and is heavily influenced by the politics of each situation. His most pernicious instinct is a desire to side with the most venal groups or institutions in the State, the bankers and builders.
Secondly, he does not understand the dangers for Ireland of being within the eurozone and being on the shortlist of EU countries that may shortly be forced out of that shaky, imploding partnership.
Thirdly, he seems blind to the most obvious economic fact that faces Ireland, and that is its economic dependence on the UK and the US — both non-euro economies — as its biggest trading partners and most vital export markets for our indigenous producers.
Lenihan was not directly involved when Ireland made its biggest economic blunder ever, by joining the eurozone, an area with which we did just one-third of our total trade. We joined at a grossly inflated cost to the exchange rate, thereby doing untold damage in terms of borrowing and inflationary expenditure, from which we are now trying to recover. He should have absorbed the realities of this and been governed by them. He is in fact governed by the opposite: an abject, misplaced respect for the European Central Bank and a totally illusory belief that the euro and the EU are a “saving grace” for this country, the way we used to believe that the Holy Ghost favoured us above all other nations in the world.
Respect for the ECB has spawned parallel respect for the banking system in Ireland. This is mistaken and will cost the taxpayer a huge debt without producing the recovery that Lenihan blithely promises. He is given to such outlandish prognostications in part because he does not understand the realities behind what he says. This will also cause him to change his mind when it suits.
Fourthly, in budgetary terms, he has committed us to a strategy of cutting expenditure instead of broadening taxation. This will deaden initiative and investment and has already produced an envy culture among workers. His approach is like that of Wilkins Micawber: something will turn up, like a revival in the building industry or a sudden splurge of bank investment in new, job-creating enterprises.
This will not happen. Experienced economists know this, though in keeping with the trends around the world, they have mixed solutions. We are in a liquidity trap and exhortation from the minister, combined with spurious promises about having “turned the corner”, will not overcome the innate current fear of spending. If governments cut expenditure, so do ordinary people. The general result is deflation and recession, leading to slump, with job losses as well.
Lenihan has no doubt. It is a frightening capacity in any politician. It is widely expressed by members of this Government. They are infected by an over-confidence designed to counteract political unpopularity rather than address the day-to-day problems of the Irish people.
Its latest expression is over the cold-weather chaos that has revealed the unprepared ineptitude of local authorities. They cannot get the grit, the shovels, the spades and brushes to clear ice and snow from pavements. Call in the Army! Ordinary walking in towns is unsafe. Streets are nightmares where people fall and break their arms, or worse.
The floods were the previous example of stupid planning leading to building in flood-prone areas. The idea that Environment Minister John Gormley will co-ordinate fighting the cold is laughable.
Lenihan’s lack of doubt was massively inept over the disastrous guarantee he gave to bank creditors and bondholders.
It was the product of the “bubble thinking” that brought the creditors into Ireland in order to make fast money here, which they did, and were then guaranteed no loss. The UCD economist, Morgan Kelly, one of the best in the business, has just published a brilliant paper on this. The prison of the euro, allowing Irish banks to get their hands on unlimited money cheaply, led to grossly irresponsible lending, now to be repaid by the taxpayer.
Kelly says NAMA will push the country beyond the fiscal limits and will need a subsidiary support structure requiring more tax. I hope not, but either way this is the product of Lenihan’s over-optimism and his limited grasp of the briefs so ill-prepared for him by what seem to be a poor back-up team of economic advisers who go along with his facile policies.
He should resign: the sooner the better. Misplaced sympathy for his truly unfortunate state of health has nothing whatsoever to do with this case.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/bruce-arnold-the-sooner-brian-resigns-the-better-for-the-economy-2006138.html
Bollox.
Ireland did not join the Euro at an over inflated rate versus sterling or dollar. Original concept of Euro was for it to run on parity with the dollar – i.e. it was their stated intention to have the Euro as a weak currency.
But that’s economists for you – so this article has no credibility.
BTW – it was around this time last year that another economist who is in on the RTE media circus act went on the business news oof the BBCRadio4 Today program and proclaimed that Ireland was a basket case economy – and single handedly reduced our credit ratings by a notch.
You see the publicity went to his head…..
AH ha! i saw you coming phil and you’ve arrived, enjoy the trip.
As the Reverend Ian has always said emphatically ” We don’t use Foul Language here”.
Morgan Kelly conclusions:
http://www.ucd.ie/t4cms/wp09.32.pdf
Conclusions.
In the last decade, the Irish economy has experienced an unusually large credit bubble.
Lending as a fraction of GNP increased from 60% in 1997, to over 200% in 2008, twice the
level of other industrialized economies.
In the aftermath of this bubble, the Irish banking system faces three inter-related problems.
The first is that it has made large losses on loans to property developers. The second
is that it has large wholesale liabilities to international bond holders and, increasingly, to
the European Central Bank. The final problem is that it faces likely further large losses on
mortgages and business loans.
The Irish government’s policy response has been solely to address the first problem of
losses on developer loans by establishing a state institution to buy these loans. However, by
ignoring the second problem of the large wholesale liabilities of the Irish banks, this project
will inevitably end in expensive failure.
As Irish banks are forced to repay this wholesale borrowing and to shrink their balance
sheets to normal international levels, the sharply diminished supply of credit will lead inevitably
to continued sharp falls in property prices. These falls in property prices will result
in severe losses for the Irish taxpayer on the ill-conceived NAMA project.
Despite having pushed the Irish state close to, and quite possibly beyond, the limits of
its fiscal capacity with the NAMA scheme, the Irish banks remain as zombies whose only
priority is to reduce their debt, and who face complete destruction from mortgage losses.
The issue therefore is not whether the Irish bank bailout will restore the Irish banks so
that they can function as independent commercial entities: it cannot. Rather it is whether
the Irish government’s commitments to bank bond holders when added to its existing spending
commitments, will overwhelm the fiscal capacity of the Irish state, forcing outside entities
such as the IMF and EU to intervene and impose a resolution on the Irish banking system.
oops, sorry about formatting, nb checkout the link for original!
A noble assessment by an eminent assessor cbweb however it presupposes that normal rules of probity and regulatory compliance apply.
Something is afoot.
Greece is cast adrift whilst Eireanns green shore can borrow ad nauseam.
We are protected and can only surmise why.
I know, John ALLEN knows and Tim has been silenced. Endgame beckons.
I’m actually not bothered about all that and how the Illuminati As Eireann protect themselves, because thus it has always been.
I’d just like these People to have one moment of conscience and throw some scraps to the rest of us.
Ramble on in Billions if you must – we’re shit sick of it – just find a few thousand for small people, if you can remember what a a few thousand means beyond that bulge in your arse pocket.
And get whatever Flunky you have to bring you up to speed on what us Small People are reading.
http://www.nationalpost.com/life/story.html?id=2421571
We’re becoming a laughing stock.
Go Now you gutless imbeciles.
F
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Great stuff. Coherent
Posters -
At link, Dunne is ‘out of cash’ and been held in place by a bank which is bankrupt. Go figure !!
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/dunnes-personal-guarantees-to-his-empire-hit-e100m-2006195.html
An example of a ‘daisy chain of bankruptcy’ linking back back back into our pockets thieving us.
Grit like Chickens Teeth – Convoys of trucks have been travelling from Foynes ladened with Grit from the port going in all directions since very early morning
Well I wouldn’t consider myself one Phil. Although I have over 300 books (and read too!) on the subject, ranging from conventional to transpersonal psychology; plus a degree, postgrad and Masters in the general area you point to. But that would be like calling Brian Lenihan an economist (apparently he’s reading up on the masters of the federal reserve. Hoping to get history to repeat itself?? Heaven help us). No, I would implore you to make a New Year’s resolution and have a quiet confidence in yourself and desist from placing those on pedastals who have achieved little and in many cases, nothing. Apart from sowing seeds of further rot.
Thanks for the fleeting adulation but you would be well advised to seek answers and quiet confidence inside yourself than to bounce from one great white hope to another. Ps Brian Lenihan has achieved nothing to date. To whitewash over generational politicians like Lemass and even, shock horror, Haughey (dubious stuff apart, he left a huge cultural mark in legislation:- An Taisce, widow’s rights, artists’ exemptions ) and claim Lenihan man of the century is baseless, amateur and untimely.
And before you drag David McW’s heralded reputation back in at this juncture, it should be noted that David was ousted into the desert to survive careerwise on locusts on many occasions while all the time steadfastly pronouncing the truth (not the Good News, no fairytale ending for us shower!!). David said it as it is. His thoughts (latent action) became tangible in print. He said his piece. He is right, mainly, of course, because like the “Richest Man in Babylon” or fans of value investing, his mind is uncluttered by derivatives, LTEVs and all forms of smoke and mirrors. You say we have a real economy. I say we have a tenuous link to reality at present. Until we ground ourselves, and are honest with each other, we are going nowhere (Malcolm I do defer to you here, mostly Deco, in regards to the subject of collective honesty, but I will not go as far as collective culpability).
Going back to last year and the commentary about lack of intellectual debate in this State, this particular comment is exemplary.
We need alternative, well thought out arguments. We don’t need subliminal mind processing as we have had since the late 30′s. Ireland has changed and is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th Century. We’ll worry about the step change to the 21st later.The only way this forum has survived over the years is by the mature attitude and commentary of its contributors. It’s basically anonymous, for we do live in a very conservative society, but some true activists are well recognised.
We are an evolving young Nation and like a teenager, we are testing the boundaries. We now know that we cannot step back and trust what we once believed to be above and beyond us.
Classic Bob Dylan and a moment that the more mature democracies experienced some decades ago.
We can now learn from those external, indeed internal, lessons learned and develop our own specific brand.
Or continue to ape our betters.
Culpability? The stuff of tragedy and many of the greatest stories and plays of mankind and all her cultures. For me it’s currently a time waster. It matters not who is culpable. This is for historians.
Right now, we have a seriously wounded entity and it needs fixing. We are in A&E and the patient is moribund. Some say NAMA is the bandaid and others have other solutions. Medicine is full of such dilemmas where the a possible cure can be the killer becasue it causes a damaging reaction. Let honesty prevail – and mutual respect – that’s the only way outta this crap. Fundamentally, unless honesty prevails and we can have an open book on who’s loosing what, the fair and reasonable minded can achieve a compromise.
People in the banks, construction industry and government need to admit they were very naieve and now need help. It not just the simple small time debts that need forgiving. I like the idea of getting a significant stake in NAMA if it meant I had a derivate stake in the welfare of this country. Articulating this and making it workable will require some Jesus like genius.
Well articulated Phillip IMHO.
Folks, well here is one approach to honesty that Kevin Myers will never highlight, Rúairí:
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/95410
There is far too much dishonesty, disingenuity and subterfuge in Ireland.
Thank you Tim,
I devoured that info. And I find ti highly relevant, as many families do, as my great-grandfather was in the British Empire’s Army and my grandfather (other side) was in the aul IRA about the same time. Being in the Empire’s pay was a way of life for so many and meant something different in 1900 than it did in 1919 and certainly even now.
But yes, dishonesty is a part of the bag of tricks of our so-called civic leaders for the last 15 years. The trick is to ensure that the vacuum of leadership is not filled by strong but unsustainable visions. This is what happened to James Connolly, subsumed by Arthur Griffith and the crazy gang.
Sorry folks, been watching a few Ché Guevara documentaries and videos over Christmas (hey its cold outside and the port % brandy is flowing) and I find my gait swaggering to da Left don’t ya know.
David, that motorbike is there…….just ask.
On a serious note Tim though, watching a CNN piece on the recently constructed new library at Alexandria, with the largest reading room in the world, I was again struck by the actual non-societal agenda of our government. In a time of great need for research and education, to fuel our so-called knowledge economy or a the very least to give us any chance of germinating Nokias or Googles, our libraries should be opwn 18/7/365. But they’re not. And the book-buying budgets have gone downhill. What the hell is wrong with this government? Oh yes, they’re focussing one one thing. Builders & bankers. And we get the trickle down crumbs.
Well done Bruce Arnold for an exemplary article today. Brave enough too, in the current climate for Brian Lenihan for Nobel Peace Prize.
Tell me, why is the whole furore over Brian Lenihan’s people meddling & crashing the pay talks so suddenly gone away?
The “days off” nonsense was never a runner. But the power grab is a separate issue. And it has just been swept under the carpet. Ed Colleran, champion of diarrhoea reporting, in in a flash, and out in a flash, no editing, JUST DA NEWS ED, why has this major incident gone unstudied since Brian Lenihan announced a major illness? (ed Colleran professed such a journalistic model on Tonight with Vincent Browne, no gentleman’s agreements, no holding on to news). So why no getting to the bottom of this mini-coup?
I believe Brian Lenihan is uber-confident and knows as much about fiscal matters as I do about psychology.
ruairi -
Did your grandfather ever divulge any intel on the b@atArds who murdered Michael Collins.
Should read… “treasonous b@stards’.
Sorry Wills, no, my grandfather was only a footsoldier / Joe Ordinary much like the majority of us. Died before my time.
I think Dev’s famous pronouncement about Collins has come to pass though. By 2016, even the most mentally challenged of so-called Republicans will come to see Collins for what he was:- a conflict genius, a man among men, and a pragmatic leader with enough control over his vision to work it through strategically.
I think he would be turning in his grave if he realised his nation-changing legacy was being caretaken by an aimless, clueless FG party, brimful of young talent (the future belongs to the young, after all) but going nowhere under the current projected vision.
Those who control our perceptions (we personally grant them power to do so) effectively write the ‘reality’ and the history.
Collins being blacksheeped is very much the equivalent of Noel Browne or David McWilliams.
“How many fingers am I holding up, citizen?” I know the answer Messers Cowen & Lenihan, and its 2.
V V lads to you too.
Ruairí,
Ché Guevara was a cold blooded murder, he had death squards in operation even after the revolution. Why do you think there’s so many Cubans in Florida? Just ask Tony Montana for his opinion :-)
Left, Right, Left, Right, Left, Right…..sounds like military marching to me. It’s all the same…we got to see past the false divisions, past wha they set up to keep us distracted and face the foe of Man which is elitism and the Banking system.
But now for something comptelely different, this always sooths my mind and soul :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKd0VII-l3A
Josey,
there are muliple millions of people who would claim your assessment of Che Guevara are wrong.
Picture a land of haves and have nots, a million times worse than Ireland. Backed up by racism and killing squads of its own. And then perhaps understand why the revolution had to use brute force and killing squads to maintain a precarious position beside a United States which had already once toppled a democracy there and has done so steadily ever since around the world.
I am sure you know this. yes, there were death squads but Josey, the society, the people were demanding of it, demanding blood and revenge. Not just one man, Che.
I do not place Che Guevara on an unassailable pedestal. He was flawed. He did wrong. But he also essentially freed a whole sub-continent, awakened decades of what you must call killing and revolt but which I call quite calmly the cry for self-determination. His determination was borned out of empathy for the poor. If the revolution was held in place afterwards by strong-arm tactics, then what would you call 1922-23 in Ireland, the McCarthy era in USA? Really, I find it remarkable that you can so easily see the thorn in another man’s eye yet somehow feel victimised by what our Haves are doing to us?
The greatest knowledge of all comes from knowing and understanding your enemies. Out of that comes resolution and hopefully conciliation.
If the Latin American people have no ’cause’, then we are in no position whatsoever to moan about comparitively petty concerns when juxtapositioned against their world of inequality.
Isn’t Tony Montana fictional by the way?
Posters -
The new ‘the sheeple before banks’ ethos is underway.
The jailers running the POnzi Scams are all across the meeja spouting out the new mind program mantra, no longer “we”re al in this together’ BS we have…
….”we all must look after each other” BS,.
someone quick pass the sick bucket im about too wretch.
Yes. It is BS and until we get an open book on peoples interests, it remains BS. And I really do not care what anyone is suffering from or their lineage or whatever…as long as I know …what’s your skin in the game. Open Book contracts. An open book social contract. I want the works…property interests, debts, nimby interests, stock ownership da works. If the Taxman has my affairs, I see no reason what I cannot have a list of my elected TD affairs.
Philip -
The list of must do’s is underway in the USA, starting to – morrow, the congress go in with the can opener and start pliers opening the cans of worms on the truth of the banking gangster POnzi scam we are all paying for.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/opinion/10rich.html
What is required here in ireland is our very own Ferdinand Pecora, NOT some NTMA bunch of mandarins using their smarts and talent too botch up the taxpayer for the next 20 years paying off a bunch of gangster banking and property gamblers bills.http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091501936.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/15/AR2009091501936.html
The Pecora commission -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecora_Commission
Posters -
FT article here on the banks getting very uneasy on the matter of whether they can continue to get away with passing their criminal property syndicate gambling bills onto the taxpayer without triggering serious social unrest.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/eb9f54d0-ee58-11de-944c-00144feab49a.html?nclick_check=1
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0306069c-fbb4-11de-9c29-00144feab49a.html
Posters -
Here is one of the jokers the taxpayer is paying for. A luxury home developer gone bust. Built adam clayton an extension. We the taxpayer are getting handed his loans and if one looks at the data he ain’t paying.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/up-to-8364900m-reo-loans-on-track-for-transfer-to-bad-bank-in-months-1959371.html
More on this stuff here. This is what NAMA is bailing out,. this is outrageous. NAMA is bailing out banks on loans giving too this.http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ronan-takes-8364130000-car-back-from-gilson-after-the-latest-bustup-between-fiery-couple-2007215.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ronan-takes-8364130000-car-back-from-gilson-after-the-latest-bustup-between-fiery-couple-2007215.html
POSTERS -
If anyone want s to know what the truth is to NAMA in the real world on the street go to the link above.
PArty party party, spend spend spend, while his, debts debts debts are passed along to the taxpayer taxpayer taxpayer, while he argues argues argues with his girlfriend over what party they’re goin too.
UN fu@kin real.
Wills – language language!
Posters -
An excellent link here into the life of one of the boy’s we as the taxpayer are paying for . His largesse all laid out for the eye, i hope you’ve a strong tummy/
http://neilmichael.wordpress.com/2006/12/10/johnny-the-buccaneer-ronan/
Folks, Have a look, here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-1047118.html
Then, read this:
http://url.ie/4me2
Then…. well, draw your own conclusions.
(via Gavin Sheridan)
tim -
‘we all should be nice to each other now tim’ ..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
Also, notice these shysters are always using the term ‘us all’ and ‘we’ and ‘all of us’ and it makes my blood boil.
these b@stards are going for a new mind program head fu$k on the sheeple as the worm turns and the new year ushers in a new realities.
Brendan O’Connor owns multiple properties and thinks its normal. He also backed Bertie Ahern at every opportunity. He believed Cowen was a brilliant Minister of Finance.
Brendan, if you’re reading this, stick to your area of expertise – the foodie reviews in the glossy part of the paper.
Lol…
Colin, you are telling BOC to stick to his area of expertise. But I don’t think that BOC’s food reviews are that great.
Brendan O’Connor’s only area of expertise is making stupid commentary karaoke acts in so called ‘talent shows’. He is at his own intellectual level sitting beside Linda Martin heaping condescending remarks at some loser who wants to be the next Pop Idol….
His grovelling of the Ditherer didn’t pay off because Own Ariss got the Senator’s pension not BOC.
He writes some awful rubbish. Then again its not what you know on this island. And the scary thing is, people buy the paper just see what he has to say, along with all our boring Z list socialites who hog the columns.
Iceland update.
The Brits really have it in for Iceland. It is like as if Britain is trying to turn Iceland into a subservient dominion. At the height of the crisis Iceland was being thrown into the Axis of Evil category by Brown, as he decided that Iceland should have the same treatment by the British Financial Authorities.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jan2010/gb2010017_293141.htm?campaign_id=ak_bloomberg
The most interesting comment comes at the end.
{
“Iceland was literally being taken over by oligarchs,” says Andri Snaer Magnason, the author of Dreamland: a Self-Help Manual for a Frightened Nation.
}
Another island nation shows what may happen when you try to get the monkeys off your back:- Be it Britain v Iceland, UK v Ireland during the economic war or Insiders v outsiders in the great NAMA smash and grab: -
From an article written in 2006 on Haiti’s problems. Before this week’s deepening nightmare. What is remarkable is how rules change to suit the powerful, how crystal clear rules are openly flouted, how its all repeated today, both within and without our borders, and most remarkably of all, why we are one bit shocked when it does.
“Haiti’s history is remarkable – in 1804 Haiti became only the second independent country in the Americas, the world’s first ‘Black Republic’ and the only nation in history born of a successful slave revolt. Haitians won their independence by beating the French army in a bloody twelve year war, but European countries and the United States forced them to pay a second price to gain entry to the international community. The world powers refused to recognize Haiti’s independence, while France posted warships off her coast, threatening invasion and the reinstitution of slavery. After twenty-one years of fighting this isolation, Haiti succumbed to France’s unjust terms in 1825. In exchange for diplomatic recognition, Haiti agreed to take out a loan from a designated French bank and pay compensation to French plantation owners for their loss of “property,” including the freed slaves. The amount of the debt – 150,000,000 French Francs – was ten times that of Haiti’s total 1825 revenue and twice the price of the Louisiana Purchase, paid by the United States to France a year before Haiti’s independence for seventy-four times more land.
This imposition of compensation by a defeated power and reimbursement by freed slaves of their former owners is unique in history and violated international law even in 1825. The 1825 agreement began a cycle of debt that has condemned the Haitian people to poverty ever since. Haiti did not finish paying the loans that financed the debt – made under terms dictated by the 1825 agreement – until 1947. Over a century after the global slave trade was recognized and eliminated as the evil it was, the Haitians were still paying their ancestors’ masters for their freedom.
The crippling legacy of debt begun in 1825 has stifled Haitian development ever since. The government could not invest in education, healthcare or infrastructure projects because all available funds went overseas. In 1915, for example, 80% of government revenues went to debt service. The need for hard currency forced Haitian farmers to favor financially or environmentally risky cash crops such as coffee and hardwood, rather than development of a diverse national economy. Over-farming and over-logging led, in turn, to catastrophic deforestation and soil erosion which put more pressure on the remaining arable land. Economic instability has engendered political instability: Haiti has been beset by dozens of coups, rebellions, foreign military interventions and a cycle of violence that paralleled the country’s downward economic spiral. Today Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere with 80% of its people living below the poverty line and is ranked 153rd out of 177 on the UN Human Development Index, far behind all of its Caribbean neighbors.
The $21 billion, in current terms, that France extorted illegally, and therefore owes Haiti, dwarfs the aid packages being debated in Port-au-Prince this week. Unlike loans and other foreign assistance, a just repayment of the independence debt would not extend dependence on foreign aid, and would allow the people of Haiti to develop their country as they, not the international community, think best. If the international community were serious about lifting Haiti out of its desperate poverty, repaying the independence debt would be at the top of the agenda, not off the table.”
I see no reason to pick on Iceland and vilify them.
Their experience, and their sensible response to their bankers folly, exposes the horrendous cross-border freedom of the world´s inadequately supervised banks
who transfer ordinary people´s savings across the globe to every Jack and Harry who offers them an extra few bob in interest..
Iceland will survive and prosper because it has the freedom to renage on it´s debts just as Argentina did, and Brazil,and many other countries in the southern hemisphere over the years .
In theory, Ireland has the same freedom-but to do so would be an unprecedented and probably impossible as long as we are part of the Euro currency.
We cannot call in the IMF to do some serious salvage therapy it seems, as long as we have an umbilical cord link to the ECB.
We live in interesting times.
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