Did you know that our country’s housing wealth has shrunk at a rate of €142.8m per day since the peak of the boom in 2007? This is a catastrophic figure because housing wealth was one of the key drivers of spending, and domestic spending is what kept the dole queues so low in the boom years.
Without this housing “feel-good factor” we will continue to spend less. And the housing situation is getting more alarming. In January 2007, the total value of all our houses and apartments was €550.64bn and today that figure is €411.69bn. According to the latest report from daft.ie, rents are collapsing back to 1999 levels. Many people believed that, even in the worst case scenario, the housing market would bottom at 2003/4 levels. This now looks optimistic.
The more rents fall, the more house prices fall too and this is because the rents are a leading indicator of what is happening to real housing demand. There is such an overhang of houses in the system and such a lack of demand that house prices will continue to tumble.
The problem is that it is getting worse by the day. Not only is the housing market not stabilising, it is getting weaker. This fundamental weakness in our balance sheet is one of the main reasons that we have to be cautious about the positive spin we are hearing this week from some stockbrokers and the spectacularly useless forecasts from the Department of Finance.
Like almost every economic problem of the past two years, all roads lead to the banks. In a situation where house prices are falling, the banks will not lend because the banks’ balance sheets are mortgaged to the very houses and properties that are now falling in value. As this process leads to defaults, the bad debts of the banks will rise, reducing their capital base and causing money to leave the banks. With investors unwilling to plug the gap until the full extent of the bad loans becomes apparent, the forced nationalisation of one of the big banks is clearly a distinct possibility.
Yesterday, we heard that the serial delinquent Irish Life and Permanent — an outfit whose loan to deposit ratio reached a ludicrous 260pc — is now trying to gain deposits again. But if it gets its deposits up, then to get the loans to deposit ratio down it has to lend less. Here again is evidence that credit in the economy is drying up.
Shrinking housing wealth brings into focus what is happening around the country and explains why hundreds of thousands of us have stopped spending and borrowing. Why would you borrow when prices are falling by 6pc and the banks are charging 5.5pc at least in interest? This is a real interest rate of 11.5pc. What company or individual, when faced with falling incomes, will contemplate borrowing at these rates? More crucially, when faced with real rates of interest of this magnitude, banks will not lend to businesses because these levels of interest rates increase the risk of bankruptcy.
This is the monetary environment we are faced with. In economics this situation is called a liquidity trap. It describes a situation where the banks are unwilling to lend to risky businesses, so business gets starved of cash and people are unwilling to borrow because they are crippled by the servicing costs of debts they took out in the boom.
This credit crunch is felt most drastically in much higher unemployment than is necessary. Unemployment, for anyone who has experienced it in a family, is a most destructive force. The shock is not only financial, but the psychological and emotional cost as well as the stress associated with unemployment is enormous. If you want to see this, ask your local doctor; doctors are seeing people presenting to them who never visited a surgery before.
The only way out of this liquidity trap and the rise in unemployment — according to mainstream economics — is now to bypass the banks. If the banks are not lending the money which the European Central Bank is giving them, then bypass the existing ones. This means one of two things. Either the State sets up a new bank, deals with the creditors of the old banks and gives these creditors some equity in the new bank; only a new bank will start to lend again and this is how our system works.
Or, more radically, the State could follow the moves of every country that has found itself in this dilemma in the past — it could print its own money free of any constraints to get things moving again.
This idea of pumping new money into the system seems radical until you examine history and see that extraordinary times demand extraordinary responses. This is how the US, for example, got out of the Great Depression following the collapse of the economy and the banking system in 1931.
On April 18, 1932, within weeks of coming into power Franklin D Roosevelt, ignoring the advice of his economic advisers, took the US off the gold standard and allowed the Federal Reserve to print as much of these “new dollars” as was necessary to get the economy going. The effect was almost miraculous. The financial markets jumped 15pc on the announcement and in a matter of months the US economy rebounded, with industrial production rebounding.
We need the same sort of political courage now to do something radical because if we leave the economy to its own devices and continue to cut spending when the people are petrified and the present banking system is in tatters, the wealth of the country will just keep on shrinking.









Does Soccer Bubble have an economic cost too?
my gutturals are resounding th th th th th th
Test, test, test, test
nice one P, looking forward too all your contributions going forward into the post NAMA apocalypse.
So here we are talking about a country where the rule of law is becomming an object of ridicule. Where crime is rife. Where teenage girls stab somebody out of jealousy. The highest per capita cocaine consumption in Europe. Vandalism. Violent attacks. Massive white collar crime. Corruption is rife.
And I am wondering just what are the priorities of the Minister of Justice. Which priority will he take on first ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/republicofireland/6605504/Thierry-Henry-handball-provokes-Irish-justice-minister-to-demand-rematch-with-France.html
We had Dermot’s spiritual phase. And now we have his sporting phase.
Would somebody please remind him that we are paying him to have a law and order phase ? Useless waste of space. He even thinks he will be Taoiseach. Even Dermot Ahern makes these statements, then exactly what are we paying Martin Cullen 200 K per annum to do ? …oh, don’t get me started on the usefulness of Martin Cullen.
Asking for a replay is typical of the Irish Government. I am ashamed of them.
The Irish government are all for replays. Like lisbon treaty referendum. If the don’t get what the want, the ask for a another go.
Yeah…they even replayed the budget….and there will be a second April Fools Day budget again in 2010.
Deco –
henri is a cheat, a cheat, a cheat,………!!???!!!!!!!
Should live well in Ireland then.
No….Thierry Henry is not a suitable cheat for Ireland….he admits to cheating…..Ireland’s cheats refuse to ever admit to cheating….
he admitted is a cop out.
The Criminal Minister, sorry I meant the Minister for censorship, sorry I mean the Minister for Justice (hahahaha) Dermot Ahern has demanded that FIFA replay the match. He stated that allowing the result to stand shows kids that it is ok to cheat. But, we don’t need Terrence Henry to teach us how to lie, cheat, and steal, as Fianna Fail have been teaching us this for years. Ahern is just pissed off because he no longer gets a free trip to the World Cup. She he not be spending his time chasing the crimanl gangs who are robbing isolated old people up and down the country ?.
… or, chasing the banksters that have robbed all the people of the country?
I have not heard a single pronouncement from Ahern about the investigation into what happened at ANIB and others………..
I heard people on the radio today calling for a mass-protest-march about the soccer-match-result.
I attended two anti-NAMA marches; one had 500 people, the other had 5,000. Now, it seems, everybody wants to protest against this FIFA crowd over a bunch of men kicking a bag of air around some field……..
The distraction-tactics are working……..
Don’t you find it strange. Justice Minister has been silent on the crime wave, and all the corruption. He will not give any opinion concerning the ongoing investigation by the Gardai into Anglo Irish Bank. I mean that is a serious national interest. And the Gardai report to him. And he is supposed to report to the electorate. And he has nothing to say on the matter.
And then after a silence of months – he opens both sides of his mouth with an outburst about a soccer match. Sounds like the type of PR nonsense that we used to get out of his namesake – the other Ahern.
Maybe Dermot Ahern’s only area of competence is making PR stunt comments about soccer.
I don’t care what Dermot Ahern things about the soccer match. Would Dermot Ahern please tell us why he is not dealing with the stupid, pie in the sky criminal justice system that makes crime the most profitable occupation in Ireland after corruption, market rigging, and “sponsoring” politicians.
FIFA regard henris ball contact as an ‘angled pass’.
So, cheats view cheating as ‘angled passes’.
Fascinating bit of self delusion.
FIFA – take the I and the A out and you get the picture….loaded with integrity and honesty and accountability
Another piece of inspired self deluding bluff.
“….i played it, the ref allowed it.” Henri
Bankers and regulators in harmony.
The EU ( European Union ) started off as being The Common Market to buy and sell as in then EEC ( European Economic Community ) somewhere along the line to become the EU the Market Bubbles entered .
It reminds me of a blocked radiator .So do we need an economic Plumber to sort this out? Or is it a Gassss Man?
Or do we return to the old Coal Fire when we knew what we got when we wanted as in the old coal cummunity between france and Benelux countries pre EEC .
Bad Soccer is Bad for the EURO .
John –
Bubble = cheating
wills. ….correction henry is not a cheat he admitted his actions to the referee .That could have happened to anybody.Your directions should be against the FIFA and the Referee it was their determination that infected the good game of soccer and in good time The demise of The EURO .
John -
He cheated when he handled the ball.
Great – there are loads of GAA clubs in the Midlands who are down players as a result of the emigration. Henry could practice his solo run, and he could get a county medal. Might even get to eventually see Cowen again in Croker.
At least the ire expressed about this matter was anger about honour, instead of money (for a change).
also, could not happen to me i can assure you. I do not cheat deliberately as henri did 3 times, then refuses to go to ref to tell the truth, then, sits down beside irish player at end of match to fake making amends, then, admits he handled ball in interview but hedges wether it was accidental, and finally, uses his easy charm into camera too insinuate ‘ah sure thats life’. This is GOMBEENISM in action as far as i m concerned and its no different than too the gombeenism destroying this country and defiling innocence throughout the land.
Thierry Henry on the late late show later this year “we are where we are”.
on a tangent – don’t know if available outside uk, but discussion on uk leaving eu
if tony b liar gets to be our president – then i wouldn’t be at all surprised but it could happen
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/analysis/analysis_20091116-2100a.mp3
Folks, Podcast: Economist Michael Burke on How the Government is Causing the Crisis to Deepen:
http://bit.ly/3BGhVF
Folks, Labour-costs down in Korea, Ireland and Latvia, Slovak Republic.
The Unit-cost is up, everywhere else, since 2006.
Evidence of spin and lies…..
http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?QueryName=427&QueryType=View&Lang=en
I think by printing money, David really means tapping up the ECB for money and using it to kick start the economy, keynsian style. Use it to fund major public infrastructural projects, such as a road network to connect regional cities to one another, a high speed rail network between Belfast, Dublin and Cork, new schools, hospitals, ports etc. Create demand.
Instead, our govt is using ECB money (de facto printed money IMO) to shore up the balance sheets of our banks, who most certainly will NOT lend to consumers and small business and will bail out their own bondholders and try to artificially maintain share prices, property prices via NAMA etc. This will fail spectacularly.
Jill Kerby; Will ya get up the yard! You are positioning yourself like some kind persecuted intellectual outsider, when you’ve acted as a shill for the Murdoch press and associated insiders throughout the Bush years of hegemony. Anybody who wants to see thru the demented musings of the Austrian school should read The Essential J.K Galbraith; absolutely required reading in these dangerous times if we want to get out of this mother and father of all deflationary crashes.
ThomasFergus – who pays for this money ? Sorry, but this idea that you can grow money on trees….that is effectively what has been happening over the last ten years by means of excessive lending.
Austrian Economics has absolutely nothing to do with Bush, Greenspan, Bernanke, Paulson, etc….Austrian Economics actually recommends allowing banks to fail. That is something the Liberal Socialists in power in Westminster and Washington would not dare contemplate.
Is there a difference in economic policy between Obama and Bush ? I can’t see any. Obama makes lots of nice speeches. And his healthcare proposals will move the money around in the US healthcare system-but it will fail to prevent the eventual bankruptcy of MEDICARE.
I do not understand why people are dead set against deflation. Deflation is actually a reduction in the cost of living.
The main beneficiaries are those at the lowest end of the pay scale. It bankrupts the rich who are leveraged. It seems that Liberal Marxists like Gordon Brown want to preserve the rich.
The real issue is personal responsibility. Putting the state in charge is not the answer. The state is rarely if ever directed by intelligence or justice. Instead it seems to be just a power mechanism for the leverage of influence by one or more vested interest.
Just regurgitating the link to the Irish Left Review above; a citibank economist’s view in complete contradiction to the claptrap posted by the bould Jill Kerby…………..
“Yesterday I talked to Michael Burke, an economist with 25 years experience working in the Financial Services sector in the UK, including a 5 years period as a senior economist in Citibank. Recently he entered the economic debate here by saying that the Government’s current strategy of cutting government spending could lead to an even worse disaster for the Irish economy. On October 9th last he published an article in Ken Livingstone’s Socialist Economic Bulletin called ‘Ireland – The Nature of the Crisis’ in which he argued:
“Like many other economies, the downturn in Ireland has been concentrated in an extremely severe collapse in investment. But the slump in Irish investment almost makes declines elsewhere look mild by comparison. From its peak level at the beginning of 2007, Ireland’s gross fixed capital formation has fallen by 42.6%. For comparison, this is nearly 3 times as great as the decline in investment in the UK and US, almost 4 times that of Germany. In this sense, the ESRI’s prognosis is not a forecast at all. The current decline in investment in Ireland is already of a similar magnitude to that of the US during 1929-1931.”
…
“This collapse in investment is a private sector response to the crisis. From the perspective of potential profitability it is entirely rational, if economically ruinous. It amounts to an investment strike.
From a different perspective, that of optimising the level of output for the whole economy, the rational response is to take control of the main levers of the key economic sectors to ensure a resumption of investment activity. Only the state can replace the investment that private operators now refuse to make. And, as investment is decisive to future prosperity in doing so, it can ensure the future well-being of the entire economy and its citizens.”
Michael discusses the points raised in this piece and his posts on Progressive Economy and concludes that what the Irish Government is now providing is something you never see in economics – that is, almost laboratory conditions of what would happen when fiscal contraction is imposed in a recession. The effects so far are exactly what are so often imagined but rarely witnessed – the rapid increase of the deficit as a result of cuts in public spending during the worst collapse of private sector investment the country has ever experienced.
The solution is to provide Government investment in the real economy – the extra money going to the banks indicates that the money is available – and the deficit will take care of itself once the economy has begun to reflate”
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!
Just regurgitating the link to the Irish Left Review above; a citibank economist’s view in complete contradiction to the claptrap posted by the bould Jill Kerby…………..
“. Recently he entered the economic debate here by saying that the Government’s current strategy of cutting government spending could lead to an even worse disaster for the Irish economy. he argued:
“Like many other economies, the downturn in Ireland has been concentrated in an extremely severe collapse in investment. But the slump in Irish investment almost makes declines elsewhere look mild by comparison. From its peak level at the beginning of 2007, Ireland’s gross fixed capital formation has fallen by 42.6%. For comparison, this is nearly 3 times as great as the decline in investment in the UK and US, almost 4 times that of Germany. In this sense, the ESRI’s prognosis is not a forecast at all. The current decline in investment in Ireland is already of a similar magnitude to that of the US during 1929-1931.”
“This collapse in investment is a private sector response to the crisis. From the perspective of potential profitability it is entirely rational, if economically ruinous. It amounts to an investment strike.
From a different perspective, that of optimising the level of output for the whole economy, the rational response is to take control of the main levers of the key economic sectors to ensure a resumption of investment activity. Only the state can replace the investment that private operators now refuse to make. And, as investment is decisive to future prosperity in doing so, it can ensure the future well-being of the entire economy and its citizens.”
” what the Irish Government is now providing is something you never see in economics – that is, almost laboratory conditions of what would happen when fiscal contraction is imposed in a recession. The effects so far are exactly what are so often imagined but rarely witnessed – the rapid increase of the deficit as a result of cuts in public spending during the worst collapse of private sector investment the country has ever experienced.
The solution is to provide Government investment in the real economy – the extra money going to the banks indicates that the money is available – and the deficit will take care of itself once the economy has begun to reflate”
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!
David’s Limerick Success Last Night :
David last night had a very successful launch of his book and a great welcome to the city in O’ Mahony’s bookshop.There was only standing room available and the place was completely full.He spoke for almost 2 hours including taking many questions from the floor.
It is rumoured that he will visit the Munster HQ and maybe change the fate of the team when they play Leinster again in the near future.
I was very glad I was there and everyone should take the opportunity to attend any of his seminars should it arise anywhere near where they live .I was not successful asking any question because there were so many he had to take.
Its great to watch in his presence and to realise what a wonderful personality he has .
Excellent. Limerick might be Munster HQ, but we can only presume that Cork will always be the Capital….
….the Capital of Waterworld?
Why Not our Medival City Kilkenny ? and We have flood walls ( but not many good salmon ! ) .
I’m in Dubai this weekend ( only Real Holiday this last two years ) and even here they may have sun and the Future but for now also vacant houses.
What we have is Selfish Sows running our political world , rotten double talking back stabbing sunday mass goers and funeral attenders and of course the ould game and pint on a Sunday ….Muppet’s,.
I worked for Guinness Itala back in the very early nineties and at least over their the Mafia let you know who they were, our Lads call themselves FF, FG, Lab, SF,Greens. Independ. and that idiot Jackie healy Ray …what Normal person who knows any thing about politics would elect him to sit at a council seat, jesus Africans elect better !
Biffo, Garlic Brian young Sean the lot of them have to be run from the chambers and bring in a Teacher for Schools a Doctor for health A Michael O Leary for Finance.
yeah and WHY Not give David Mc Williams , …? Enterprise ???
p.s David , I’ll give you other mail when back at office machine ….
Now Time to roar on for Rory ( like Paddy , and all )
But two years back while In ADARE I backed with Paddy Power the new young lad from the ‘North’ ….and Paddy well,..he had Woods eyes and gave me good odds ,. So may be sunday I’ll put a bet on one of my Cousin’s mares he’s got out here.
The whole Thierry Henry saga is actually an excellent opportunity to improve our exports to France. People just need to refocus and get the big picture. The French are a by and large a very honest (sometimes blunt) lot. Henry admitted what he did. The French newspapers even admit that it was handball. Our newspapers would not do that in case it weakened the supporters belief system.
All we have to do is get the Swedish referee to provide reduced rate advertising for Bord Iasciagh Mhara (Fish) and An Bord Bia (Lamb).
Cowen should stop parrotting like a fool. Instead Cowen should send Thierry Henry a side of lamb and a smoked salmon. Thierry could say ‘eh…je suis desole…mais…’ And Cowen can use the opportunity to get some positive publicity.
By appearring magnimonious in defeat, and being a good neighbour we might get some respect, and gain something morally that will benefit us for years to come. We just need to cut out the sensationalist bullshit. And turn the publicity into something good.
And that might fix Ireland’s real problem-rising unemployment and the weakening of the productive base of the economy. It might also be a first step to getting the intellectual dimension of our society fixed. We need to turn away from the obsession with controlling or being complicit in the intellectual control of Irish society, so that the gombeen element is always in charge. Time to get ourselves to a different level intellectually, and cut out this stupid folly of expecting others to do things for us and the entire ‘something for nothing’ construct.
There seems to be this assumption in the Irish media that Irish people don’t cheat.
Fact : Irish people do cheat – except it is CALLED BUSINESS !!!
Very true !!
cheers
Deco …I’d vote for you too ,..well said
Ireland needs to adapt a siege mentality to get out of current problems. It needs to realise who the real enemies are, both now, in the medium term and the long term.
FF (Fat Fools with Fatally Flawed ideas) all need to resign. The have lost all credibility.
FG are no better, they are far too close to the EU for my liking.
Labour – well anything to do with a union is bad for everyone except union
GP – power gone to their heads
The oil/energy industry & speculators are an enemy
Industrialized Food is an enemy, see this video
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/11282008/watch.html
The drinks & cigarette industries. What value do the add? The just cost a fortune in health care
The banks.
Big supermarkets.
I think David’s idea of printing money is a good one.
How about using a local currency / voucher system to pay public servants. They might have to get some of their salary in Euros. Transactions within the country would use this currency. Social welfare payments would be in this currency. People would not go hungry.
Farmers would get paid in this local currency/vouchers. There is a need for a cleaner greener Ireland. Sustainable farming needs to take centre stage.
America seems to be such a mess. Everyone needs to learn from what’s happened there.
tony
In Kenmare and soon Cork and better in Kilkenny they (have) these Vouchers for trading with discounts , not to difficult to set up really and been honest .
Truth about our medical board , two years ago I wanted to bring in a Water Drink for Smokers…yes a simple drink with nicitione in it ,but They are sponsored by the Lads who make the Gums and patches ,..so Guess What ?
Correct , we did not employ 130 staff in Ireland , but got set up in California , the very place that banned smoking in the first place. http://www.niclite.com call them and ask For
SEAN BAILEY , he’s now in texas but is a Real Irish man. He’ll tell you the Long story ……
Now time for breakfast ,,
http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/over-77000–now-behind-on-mortgage-or-rental-bills-1949422.html
Anyone getting close to that situation might find the following useful:
http://www.financialcoaching.ie/?p=180=1
Posters.
Fascinating over last 2 days listening too what people determine to be cheating and what a cheater is.
Henri is a cheat.
Printing your own money is NOT cheating.
Yet, we are lead to believe by so called experts and authorities that,
printing your own money is cheating, and,
Henri did not cheat cos sure we all would do that, and, sure he admitted it so it s not really cheating, and, sure its up to the ref, and, everyone does it on a saturday afternoon.
Henri handled the ball deliberately, which determines henri to be a cheat.
Ireland can print its own money all it wishes too and this is not cheating.
Whats cheating is, is to print your own money and keep it all to yourself.
Posters.
Cheaters hate been called cheaters.
Cheaters will delude themselves with any old codswallop.
Ireland is a culture of cheating.
Henri is a cheat.
Ireland will fake amend, fake tears and fake concern, too escape its cheating, as henri did.
Henri is a moral lesson for Ireland.
You both are exactly the same.
You cheat the same.
You cover it up the same.
You will cheat again if necessary to get what you want.
You both use charm too get out of jail free.
Irish culture and henri cheat.
Cheating is moral cowardice.
Very true. All of it.
Michael Davitt, who endeavoured in his life to improve the lot of his people, and who did as much if not more than any Irish Patriot once said that the Irish had two flaws.
1) Alcohol.
2) Moral Corardice.
There was a lot of moral cowardice in evidence over the last thirty years. The Arms Trial. The unemployment of the 1980s. Garret the Good rescuing middle class cafes with PAYE moneyclass while the Industrial core of Cork City hit a 30% unemployment rate. Haughey and the belt-tightening speech. Champagne Socialism from Dick Spring. The brother of the boss of AIB becomming minister for finance. Fudge. Dithering. Excuses. Nepotism. Incompetent state authorities. Private sector enterprises who chickened out of competiting with each other. Regulators who took them up on games of golfs. The K Club (Shane Ross claims that the crookedness and corruption coming from the K-club is much worse than the Bally Brit tent culture. Lies. Deciet. Bertosconi..etc..
It is hilarious to find that somebody external is being accused of the “cheat” accusation. Let he who has not cheated throw the first stone. Irish society is populated with cheats from top to bottom.
If one of our players cheated, then the media would call him a hero. A French player cheated, and the French media are concerned about the example that he will set th young people of France. The French media are not concentrating on the result put on the “coup de main”.
Listening to Irish politicians calling Henry a cheat is a bit much. And the same applies to media commentators and Irish businessmen. Because these categories have been beneficiaries of massive ‘improper’ behaviour over the last fifteen years.
Deco – when dermot aherne popped up over this ‘cheating’ i laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed,.. the silly fool didn’t even realise he had been had by the gods.
Where was he with cheating on his home turf…!!!
No where,,.
and suddenly there he was with cheating which he could freeload on, and, use to gleam and garner PR.
Utterly caught out, as with BC and his say going into EU shin dig and i laughed again.
Oh, and ireland suffered a great flood too..!!!
Posters.
Ireland looked into the mirror at itself two nights ago.
It saw henry looking back handling the ball and cheating using a wiley charm and knack for cheating.
The cold face of gombeenism on the world stage.
Ireland and henry both made for each other.
Correct. Completely agree.
Irish business is rotten with cheating. Just look at all the oligopolistic arrangements.
If only our politicians were even a fraction as concerned about all of the cheating that has been occurring in Ireland in the last fifteen years. Now we have Irish politicians scrambling over each other in an attempt to get some sort of moral high ground. And FF politicians are very much into this “Warp the Green Flag around me”, let’s all be happy lemmings, BS.
Being annoyed with FIFA is nonsense. FIFA might be corrupt. But FIFA was not responsible for the debacle that is the Irish banking sector. FIFA was not responsible for benchmarking or the largesse in the HSE. FIFA did not get us the most expensive electricity in Europe and laws that make it uneconomical for individuals for having their own windmills. FIFA is not responsible for FAS, or CIE.
No, we are responsible for this. We through our compliance and willing support for our so called “leadership”.
Don’t forget the little people of Ireland — the welfare cheats, those who believe it is a right and a duty to evade tax wherever possible, the compo culture whiplash “victims”, the cohabiting “lone” parents, the self-interested union members, the three-hour-a-day council workers, the tax-evading small-time landlords etc. etc. etc. Corruption begins at the bottom.
P – oh i post on these louts alot, check my posts out here on it. They are the scrounger rent seeking class cohorts.
An F’n farce.
How symbolic the timing of it too.
Serendipity.
Two things.
1 – Roy keanes let a truth bomb off.
2 – Henry now demands a re – match on public admission of guilt after a bad nights kip.
Keane has once again revealed the hypocrisy and opportunism of the FAI.
But Keane will get ridiculed because he sets a bad example to the young people of Ireland. Exposing the hypocrisy of authority in Ireland is forbidden as it is a challenge to authority in Ireland.
Yeah….and Where is his Team today eh ? LOL …
I’m going to send Henry some Fish Myself !
What sort of crisis gets a list of Government ministers seriously worked up and annoyed….
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/1120/breaking16.htm
The behaviour of government ministers is varying between the comical and the absurd.
How come they don’t get worked up about the real problems facing this country.
I wonder have they anything to say about the fact that Cork City is cut off, and Galway is cut off from it’s entire Eastern localities. Clonmel is a mess. Towns like Wexford, Carlow, and Athlone still have to meet the high water point.
This entire media/celebrity culture is useless and is being proven as completely useless. But our politicians are clambering to exhibit this failed intellectual model.
David, you are incorrect RE rents. Rents are NOT falling to 1999 levels, they are falling to the baseline set by current levels of rent allowance. Since Slumlords merely charge this maximum level, rents cannot fall beneath this, because there is a huge army of people on the dole, on disability, on lone parents, who cannot pay any kind of market rent, and are unlikely to be housed by the state. Since they make up 30-50% at least of the total rented “market”, the rents never fall beneath this baseline.
The only way to “break” this would be to remove the entitlement of a single person without dependents to a full unit and force them to share.
Since this maximum rent is still around 100 a week in most parts of the country, it still represents an unsustainable rent level for the large chunk of lower earners in the min wage to 29k a year earning bracket for whom this is a difficult to afford payment. It also removes any kind of link between housing location/quality and rent levels. In short, it is price fixing the rented market, which has always been a key factor in the entire housing bubble. Overpricing at this level inflated rents across the entire market and thus forced up house prices on the basis of “almost guaranteed rents”.
Until welfare tenants are removed from the private market or the maximum rents payable are curtailed in some way (which would be the case if the current practice of increasing tenant contributions and lowering maximum rents that qualify) there isn’t a true demand and supply market in the private rented sector.
Unfortunately, one of the consequences of this would be lower prices as slumlords would be forced to sell, but the current problem is that the sector is decaying due to low quality standards and substandard maintenance levels. We are facing once again a slum problem comparable to that of the 1950s, yet there are huge levels of vacant, reasonable quality homes throughout the country!
Iff12 –
Landlordism dominates every nook and cranny of irish life.
LAndlordism hold the neo feudal power structure in place.
Landlordism is the driving force behind the corrupt rent seeking economic system which we all live in.
Landlordism is the nama of the game in POnzi Rep.
Landlordism offers free money too the participant.
Landlordism is controlled by the banking establishment.
Landlordism is a tyranny over free market enterprise and a destroyer of the life force.
LAndlordism is the jail cell walls that holds the serf hostage to endless pain and suffering.
Landlordism survives on the oxygen of a debt / slave money system.
Landlordism rips the soul out of a community and banishes it into perversion and violence.
Surely the govt should reduce maximum rent supplement level by 15% for the next 3 years given to tenants, forcing the landlords to take a hit?
Don’t we want the housing crisis to reach rock bottom as soon as possible to allow the recovery to begin as early as possible?
Folks, Who’ll sign up to ask the government for a jobs strategy? (New Facebook Group)
http://bit.ly/yIm8t
Seemingly, over 200,000 have already joined the petition-group about the soccer hand-job, so it will be a very interesting experiment to watch the numbers on this “Jobs-strategy” page.
Folks, what do you think of the SF pre-budget submission, here: :
http://notesonthefront.typepad.com/politicaleconomy/2009/11/one-could-despair-all-the-major-political-parties-are-supporting-another-round-of-fiscal-contraction-though-they-may-differ.html
Folks, also see this, on how inequality worsens economic outlook for all.
http://www.irishleftreview.org/2009/11/18/ictu-tasc-launch-heap-report-income-inequality/
All Hail our new EU President:
http://twitgoo.com/57kfk
(No need for people to elect him, of course; that would just be silly, wouldn’t it?)
Phony Tony did not get it.
It is a pity Cowen does not ask for a replay of the vote.
Tim – I cannot make a comment next to your comment concerning the Government Jobs Strategy. [the official one that is - the unofficial government jobs strategy is to get their relatives, supporters and pals jobs in D2, CIE/ESB/RTE/HSE and in those 800 quangos].
If only 200000 people would sign an online petition to NAMA, the bailout of ANIB, and the persistent failure of the Irish concept of management. But the evening news makes sure that under no condition is the viewer made believe that the vast majority of the citizenry are against NAMA. Instead there are loads of people who want NAMA. An awful lot of them are either bankers or people living off pensions from banks. And auctioneers. And lawyers. And the viewer is told that NAMA “is essential for our prosperity”. Unfortunately he never understands that the “our” part is really only relevant for a narrow clique.
All we do know is that for at least 200000 people being cheated is about a virtual experience watching the male equivalent of a soap opera, and seeing the rules broken. The Swedish referee gets massive criticism.
Yet an entire generation has been cheated by a collection of oligopolists and wasters. For a long time it became a badge of snobbishness, to have been at the receiving end of such a screwing in such a priveleged manner. Well it was the done thing. Join in or be ostracized. And everybody felt great. The Lemmings were all going faster and faster. David tried to shout stop. Hobbs threatened to lead them astray from their predestined path. And Shane Ross made scary noises about corporate Ireland, regulators, and funny dealing. But mostly the herd stayed the course.
And then the things started to unravel. There were houses in Laois and Westmeath which were taking too long to sell. There were rumours from the US that Greenspan’s boom was all phony. And the entire thing crashed. The lemmings scattered. And ever since it has all been about getting everybody back into the herd.
And the political establishment have promised everybody that at some time in the future ‘normality’ (sic) will return. And the banks will be bouyant. And then we will all be living in the land of Long Term Economic Value, running through fields of daisies in Deckland in the sunshine.
Except it is all nonsense. You compliance is greatly appreciated. But the politicians share your outrage with Henry’s goal. Because our politicians hate cheating and are all set against it. Except when they profit by it themselves.
There is only one battle – the intellectual battle to get people to think. The TV world – enter-con-tainment industry exists to dumb the entire thing down.
We have a Taoiseach who knows what he wants to see as a result on X-Factor, and knows that he wants better regulation on the soccer field.
Just don’t ask for such concepts from him in the job that we actually pay him to do, and the job that he was never elected to do.
Deco –
Here’s a great new book on the actual cause of crash.
http://www.amazon.com/Confessions-Subprime-Lender-Insiders-Ignorance/dp/0470402199
‘The lemmings scattered. And ever since it has all been about getting everybody back into the herd.’
Spot on. And the NAMA con is akin to some type of trance like opiate for the masses the masses perceive as something that,,,
‘must be good for them, cos the people in charge insist that it is good so it must be good and the people who say otherwise are just wackos.’
like the injection for swine flu. It has mercury, thimersol, squalene and the doctor though demands its injected into babies, and the creatures of orwellian system are pogrammed to believe it s ok cos the man in the white cloak says it is.
Deco, well said, Sir!
NAMA opiate for the masses.
The masses are been made pay for it and the masses are conditioned into believing that if they have to pay the price, do the pain then it must be the answer.
The masses are suffering from stockholm syndrome in relation to the establishment. The establishment in their captor and the masses have been enslaved and poisoned and fleeced and sharecropped for so long that they ve become mesmerized and induced into an altered state of believing that feeling pain is good cos the master will be safe and kept happy.
tim, is that the famous tie on your facebook pic?
wills, Yes, that’s the one!
Keep posting them excellent links and I promise to keep that upstart from Australia from commenting on your choice of neck adornment.LOL. P.S I have posted an extract from one of the above links below, as I feel it needs a good public airing coming up to the Budget. ;-)) ;-))
Folks, this just in from DmcW: SBPost article will be about Job-strategy related to my FB link, above.
Looking forward to that!
LOL,…Teacher Pet ;0)
The country is totally ruined and underwater; the
best paid workers in the country are closing it down totally for good measure on Tuesday.
Seriously ill patients face their operations being cancelled.
Most people are only concerned with a replay of a “handjob” defeat/cheat in a football match.
No riots outside Leinster House (maybe that should wait until Fianna Fail´s Praetorian Gardai go on strike)
Oh world God made!
If the dutch ruled Ireland they would feed Europe;If the irish were in Holland they would drown themselves.
Yes and they run a good Red Light ( actually two districts ,old and new area) and let your smoke a weed , well a plant that can do many many things apart from the high’s . It can be a fuel and food and cloth a paper Yet ‘ we have a war on ‘things’ like that !,.oh and as for Transport and Health forget about social …..Holland is life times ahead of us stupid inbred ( old Eire) Fools over running us now ………Just Makes One Madder each and every day
Wealth, or the accumulated resources owned by households, is as important a factor in economic inequality as income. Although there are a range of wealth categories, common forms include bank deposits, stocks and bonds, commercial property, investment funds and pensions; the value of the family home is also sometimes included.
Net wealth subtracts the level of debt from total wealth.
Statistics about wealth are hard to come by in Ireland. The Bank of Ireland published a study of wealth in 2007, giving us figures for 2006. They found the gross wealth of the top 1% of the population was an even 100 billion Euro. This top 1% owned 20 per cent of the wealth of Ireland. When the value of residential property is excluded, the figure owned by the top 1% rises to 34 per cent or more that a third.
But Shane Ross told us there are no more pots of gold sitting around anymore, that it had all been re-invested and hence lost in shares and property devaluations.
Can you break it down for us Tull, please?
Ponzi Rep.
A ‘consciousness’ the slugs all share but some more polished than others thereby introducing a peking order of subordination, the pay off of which amounts too the permission to swing a baseball bat too smash and grab.
Is this the group you speak on tull.
The denial is palpable around here. Everyone else is to blame — the developers, the corrupt politicians, the sleazy bankers, the ________ (enter your favourite scapegoat here).
I’m sorry folks. This is just a case of the cyclical amnesia that comes along every generation or so. The amnesia that makes us forget that there is a piper to be paid. That we can’t live beyond our means forever. That saving for a rainy day is good common sense. That if you needed 110% mortgage to buy your starter home and decorate it, then you couldn’t afford the decoration and there’s a pretty good chance you couldn’t afford the house either.
It’s much more fun (or certainly less uncomfortable) to believe that sinister forces are at work, that there’s a controlling hand, an evil puppeteer pulling our strings. That’s why conspiracy theories are so popular. We prefer to think someone is in control, even if they are acting against our interests. It’s safer than realising that nobody is in control — that all you need is the collective irrational exuberance of the masses to bring everything crashing down.
‘nobody’s in control’…
Fascinating
Sure. It’s just turbulence. Convection currents in the economic soup kettle.
really
Yup
Why are ye all going on about TH and his Lamh when Rugby dealt with this? Blatter is another of Wills dinosaurs. An old man divorced from the people strangled by past compromise. Rotten and spawning decay purely for survival.
Advance to Ireland and the future. What can DMcW et al say now? It’s all more or less been said at this point. The international stage has read the comments of all commentators yet today the bank guarantee is ratified for another 3 years and scoops up even more private debt / risk.
In the middle of all this Euro preservation, globular banking fuelled by Fiat Finance is heading headlong for the Blue Moon.
I would ask a favour of the posters.
In all ye know, could ye look forward and give anyone reading some hope? It’s getting very gloomy here and theres always a way forward?
Regards,
F
AH Furrylegs,..sorry only seems like yesterday when we first crossed here ….well
Furrylugs,. let them just BRING ON the Budget , then us Lot Here Can step in behind David Mc Williams , posters ,book buyers, fans, call us what you want ,
and Lets Fix this Mess
Now ,….I really have to go watch the Golf …
We Could also report all The retired farmers, who sold some land and ‘signed’ over the farms . You be quite surprise how many Really haven’t stopped doing a manual days work since ,..interesting times
Munster Capital :
Deco – I think from watching Cork sur Mer et Venise that it is now Limerick’s opportunity to claim to be the Capital of the province .
French is dirty language right now. More apt would be “Cork unter Wasser”.
:-)
“Harry Crosbie ‘s been NAMA ‘ized so he is alright”…
this is a quote form harry himself on RTE radio 1 five minutes ago !!!!!!!!!!!!
Now he is telling us all about joy riding on bonos private jet.
These guys are something eh!
… and Harry Crosbie knows the 4th Secret of Fatima……
Guess what he said, while laughing his head-off on Marion Finnucan’s show?
He’s “already been Nama’ ed”.
There you are: ever before it was passed in the Oireachtas, ever before being signed by the president, the deal was already done to take his €84 million per acre land-banks into taxpayer, gambling ownership!!!!!!!!!!
No wonder he is laughing on the radio…..
tim, i think harrys exuberance over NAMA go the better of him.
The reality of the NAMA story spilling out from behind the curtain.
This is incredible.
…and to mouth off on it across the airwaves really, these guys are still spaced out on the high of their POnzi property bubble empires.
Posters.
All truth seekers,
listen to finucane RTE radio 1 morning show podcast,
first hour, interview with HARRY CROSBIE.
And listen too harry accidental slip up on NAMA and NAMA taking off him his worries with investments and
“oops i didn’t say that did i that NAMA has already taken care of my debts even though it has not been ratified quick wipe the tape producer wipe the tape wipe the tape”.
HARRY CROSBIE on RTE radio finucane let the cat out of the bag on NAMA.
NAMA has already fixed him up on his debts a while back.
Someone please explain how this could be if NAMA is not even ratified or just going through the DAIL.
Wills, do you have a date and time when this was on? Thanks.
Folks, here is one possible answer to the question, “Why are we holding ANGLO for so long?”:
http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/1120/banks1.html
It’s the new gravy-train, the Govt appointed directors, like Dukes, et al……..
Anyone ever heard of Institute of International and European Affairs?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_of_European_Affairs
Irish version of Bilderberg Group?
Yup, just look at the names on that body…..
Says it all, really.
Tony -
Well well well, what do we have here, the a crony network under the sheen of a policy think thank.
More rot. More vampires sinking their teeth into the sheeple.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1229683/Why-President-Whatsisname-Baroness-Who-death-EU-dream.html
Well well well.
Good man Tony.
Well spotted and posted. A right of centre, ultra conservative neo-colonial grouping sitting right within the Constitution.
So what will we do about McWilliams? I know, we’ll let the fool think he can moderate the Farmleigh event. If he comes on board, he’s sound and one of us. If not, our PR people will have his balls on toast..
In all our talk people, this is the best posting to date and the proof positive that the “Circle” has come of age.
Proportional Representation is now very proportionate to the level of power one exercises. A little like the share system on trawlers where the hardest workers experiencing the most danger get one share of the catch while the Skipper and Boat get the lions share on the precept that “No Boat – No Skipper – No Job” so be thankful you peons for the opportunity.
“Deportees” comes to mind.
This is moving beyond simple economics and into an historical context. It’s obvious the capitalism theory is following the communism theory and we’re heading into uncharted waters. The various “schools” of economics have all had their day in the sun and all have failed.
John ALLEN has consistently harked back to a pre colonial time in Ireland (albeit sometimes quite cryptically) when we provided the nucleus of intellect for a Europe engulfed by the Dark Ages.
Whilst many of our people were sucked in (or trapped as Garret Fitsgerald admitted) by the corporate lies of the Tiger, most of us still retain pride but no purpose. This forum and many others clamour for leadership. Purposeful, simple, tough and direct leadership.
Now that Tony has published those who control our destinies, it becomes a little easier to identify the new blood that will inevitably fill the void.
I hope.
Thanks Tony.
F
Incidentally, for the purpose of free information,
A Director or Secretary of THE INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL AND EUROPEAN AFFAIRS is also a Director of…
• Con Lucey Agri Policy Consulting Limited
• Dexbury Limited
• East-Link Limited
• Gillmanton Limited
• I.D. Technology Limited
• I.W.A. Limited
• Ireland For Europe And The Treaty
• Irish Tourist Industry Confederation
• Mainstream Renewable Power Limited
• Midlink M7/M8 Limited
• National Toll Roads Limited
• Northlink M1 Limited
• Ntr Esop Trustee Limited
• Ntr Leasing Limited
• Ntr Waterford Limited
• Primero Limited
• Southlink N25 Limited
• Suedec Limited
• The Against Malaria Foundation (Ireland) Limited
• The Dublin Grand Opera Society Company
Now before some smart alec makes a quip, you can’t have a good clique without a bit of opera. How else do you eliminate awkward opposition – ask John Wilkes Booth.
Furrylugs, great stuff.
Pieces of the puzzle coming together, now.
Soon, I think, the whole picture will be revealed…….
…… and what will we do with it?
@Tim & Furrylugs. Hang on a cotton picking minute ye bucks. If there’s any opera around here I want in.!!! Anyway when I edited out all the usual Government Dept’s and quangos and othe gravey train passengers all is was left with for the above Institution was these bunch and I just cannot see what they would have to gain from anything in this Country. So stop the scaremongering , ;-) ;-) …………..The Institute of International and European Affairs (IIEA)
http://www.iiea.com
Foundation Members:
AIB Group • Bank of Ireland Treasury • BCM Hanby Wallace • BT Head Office • CRH plc • Deloitte & Touche • Diageo Ireland • Friends First • GECAS • Goldman Sachs International • Google • IBEC • National Treasury Management Agency • Pioneer Investment Management • Shell E&P Ireland Ltd • Vintu Foundation for Excellence in Education & Journalism • Waterford Crystal Ltd.,
Corporate Members:
Arthur Cox • Aviareto Limited • CODEMA • Eirgrid plc • European Foundation for the Improvement of Living & Working Conditions • Fingal County Council • Irish Life & Permanent plc • KPMG • Mason Hayes & Curran • McCann Fitzgerald Solicitors • NorDubCo • NTR plc • Realex Payments Smurfit Kappa Group •Tesco Ireland • The Ecology Foundation • The Irish Stock Exchange • Tipperary Institute(North Riding) • UniCredito Italiano Bank (Ireland) Ltd • Viridian Energy Limited • Vodafone Ireland Ltd • William Fry Solicitors •
Furrylugs -
PAra 1 ‘well well well’ comment.
Fishing trawler metaphor.
an when one lobs in, ‘and we also have blocked any peon attempting too show initiative and make with their own opportunities out of reach to our control matrix’……..
and what we are left with is modern day mercantilism tightly wrapped up by a titanic political system links made available above courtesy of tony and tull, thank you gentlemen.
Folks, some stats the rest of us have to deal with, even though Harry Crosby doesn’t, as he laughs all the way from NAMA:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/Swbw6l7JTLI/AAAAAAAAG10/0-1YPsciFAs/s1600/CRESept2009.jpg
…and (from Finfacts):
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018499.shtml
Any math with schiller stats in is A1 tim.
unrelated but some good news for a change
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1229692/PETER-OBORNE-He-looks-haunted-new-claims-torture-war-lies-hes-got-lot-haunted-by.html
Tony -
Blair was a shill, taking in by the wolves ad put too work as a front man, the guy is blinded by the truth, and a dupe.
How can a house make you wealthy if you are living in it ?
And if US industry rebounded in the 30′s how does this relate to Ireland in 2009 considering that we don’t make anything , besides botox ?
and Viagra and tranquilizers. Which make s up most of our export numbers.
Posters -
Deflation implies the following,
despite the injection of liquidity the value of debts on the banks books continues too implode at a faster rate than the central banks are printing.
so, NAMA is a bank scam to quickly ditch these toxic debts due to ever decreasing value into oblivion and off load the ‘implosion problem’ onto another party.
so, NAMA is not about ‘re starting credit provision’ into main street, but a financier scam to save the banks from folding into bankruptcy precipitated by the toxic debts never ending imploding imploding imploding!
So, technically, this ‘toxic debt’ chain reaction implosion across the banking system maybe the bottom falling out of the fractional reserve banking system and the actual apocalyptic meltdown of the central banking system / death and the banking establishment are doing everything to try and plug the damn of debt and hold the wall to no avail.
which raises the question that perhaps the worldwide central banking system has actually collapsed and the powers at be are in fact playing pretend that it is still there and its all a ‘confidence trick’ they are playing on public. It;s all about looking like you are doing something and trying to fix something when in fact the damn has given way.
????
which would explain the absurd realism going on.
Just view the events underway from the perspective that the powers at be know the banking system has collapsed. And are working it from this vantage point.
what springs to mind here is disneys ‘the sorcerers apprentice’.
The Chinese caught western bankers with their pants down
The rich are going to try and keep their standard of living by impoverishing everyone else
tony_ murphy – I have read your many contributions and your thought process is crystal clear.
In 2006, the average household spent €1,767 on energy. Household electricity bills have more than doubled since 2000. Provisional data from 2008 indicates an average non-inflation adjusted bill of approximately €2,200. Rising energy prices are driving these cost increases for consumers, and are likely be exacerbated by the introduction of a carbon tax in the December 2009 budget.
Those living in energy inefficient housing are particularly exposed to the vagaries of international energy markets. If increasing energy bills were unavoidable, they would just have to be accepted, but the reality is that they can be significantly ameliorated through a range of energy efficiency interventions.
A large segment of society in Ireland cannot afford to heat their homes to an adequate level – approximately 150,000 homes were estimated to be experiencing fuel poverty in 2005. Fuel poverty is generally seen as having three drivers: poverty, energy prices, and the energy efficiency of dwellings.
€350 million was provided to households as fuel allowances in 2007.Electricity and gas allowances under the household benefits package will cost the exchequer €220 million in 2009, whereas the fuel allowance is expected to cost in the region of €180 million. All told, the
oopps sorry forgot to paste the last bit ….mmmm read it as one piece and say nothing…………………………………………….”State’s fuel poverty mitigation bill comes to approximately €400 million per annum. When energy prices rise the incidence of fuel poverty increases and government support must increase.
Fuel poverty currently affects in the region of 150,000 Irish households. The WHO has described its prevalence as “shocking” for a country at Ireland’s level of development.
Point of clarification for the smartasses …..The WHO mentioned above is not the band but The World Health Organisation, and I dont like them being “shocked” at little old us, so they might want to take Berties advice and find a suitable tree for themselves.Talking down our Economy , “how there they” hmmmm.
Tull -
You do know that ESB provide the electricity for that other ‘crowd’ to sell it cheaper.
Again its the power elite owners of the means of production giving the impression of the ‘illusion of choice’ to the serfdom class.
The electricity scam is a classic revealing how the ruling elites operate engineering the idea down to the sheeple that the system is fair and competition is alive and it is a LIE. The system is only competitive when it fits in with the ruling elites next move.
In this case, the elites obviously felt that the irish sheeple needed to be calmed on the rip off esb prices by been giving the ‘illusion of choice’ and offered an alternative too cheaper electricity or more importantly, giving the illusion of choice on it, and bombard the tv drones with happy smiley what s her name dancing the cross roads with a chrp ad a skip diddly i and the sheeple are soprified.
Are the lower prices an illusion too?
the prices are what are referred too as ‘rigged’.
By you, perhaps. Discerning people might demand evidence, not just your assertions.
Yes, i’m asserting the markets are rigged.
Your looking for evidence.
Good, you ought too.
Malcolm / Tul –
In relation to the ‘grey eminences’ question check this link out. Fascinating portal into their world.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-backs-8364100m-pension-topup-schemes-1950729.html
THe sunday indo is piling out the red meat for the sheeple keep ‘em happy.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/shamed-tycoon-lies-low-as-creditors-await-repayment-1950745.html
this POnzi merchant is dreadful stuff.
Read his comments on the sheeple at end of this link. Shows the utter contempt these guilded frat boys hold for lower downers.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0113/1231738220134.html