McDonald’s pulled out of Iceland yesterday. This is an enormous moment because it is the first time the McDonald’s machine has admitted defeat in a modern, sophisticated country. A few years ago, this would have been unthinkable.
In the 1990s, when globalisation was in its pomp, a popular expression — coined by Tom Friedman, the ‘New York Times’ columnist — stated that “no two countries with McDonald’s have ever gone to war with each other”. The expression was supposed to mean that globalisation was good for all of us because it civilised us and, what better expression of globalisation than McDonald’s?
Once a McDonald’s opened up in a country, the assumption was that lots of other modern things were going on, such as tolerance and greater interaction with the rest of the world.
It is more than ironic, therefore, that the first country that McDonald’s should pull out of is a country with no army. Iceland contracted out its defence to the US in 1951. The Icelanders concluded that they had no enemies; no one really had any urge to invade them, so why have an army?
McDonald’s announced that it couldn’t make any money because, since the devaluation of the Kroner, the Icelanders have turned back to their local fish and local meats.
McDonald’s, which imports most of its ingredients for its Big Macs, couldn’t survive. It would have to put the price of the Big Mac up too much and the locals weren’t prepared to buy at that price, particularly when local food was much cheaper.
Last March, a restaurateur in Reykjavik predicted to me that this would happen. She ran a fast food fish restaurant down on the docks where huge trawlers came in with their catches. Her restaurant was cheap, her fish was fresh, just out of the freezing North Atlantic and her trade — all locals — was brisk. She said that the Icelanders would abandon the expensive imported food that had become commonplace in the boom, along with the swanky restaurants.
With the currency devalued, it would make no sense to pay through the nose for imported food when the local farming and fishing sectors were offering good food for half nothing. She said that the first industries to boom after the fall in the currency were local agriculture and tourism and as they recovered so, too, would the rest of the country.
This is what is happening and, as she succinctly put it to me, Iceland would, in the future, have “more fishermen and less bankers” and they’d start again. She also made the point that with the worldwide demand for food rising exponentially, fishermen would be better paid than bankers in the years ahead. It was an interesting point.
Five months ago, I visited Iceland to see for myself what was happening. I wanted to see what it felt like to live in a “basket case” economy. Part of the documentary ‘Addicted to Money’ was made in Iceland and I spent a week there chatting to all sorts of people. Back then, it was clear that a new Iceland was emerging where the people — both politicians and bankers — who had mortgaged the country had been kicked out. There was no rescue scheme like NAMA. The Icelanders took their medicine straight away and allowed their currency to fall dramatically. This has been evidently painful for many but as a local policeman suggested to me, “So what if we have fewer Range Rovers and less camembert?”
The economy is now recovering quickly, much more quickly than Ireland. And the devalued currency has a lot to do with that because with a devalued currency local industries can export much more easily and large foreign outfits like McDonald’s are sent packing. In a short period Iceland’s huge trade deficit disappeared. Contrast this with what is happening here.
Back home, last Thursday morning I made a speech in the Four Seasons Hotel in Dublin. In the room next to me, at precisely the same time, Brian Lenihan was addressing the private clients of Goodbody Stockbrokers. By all accounts he spoke well and reassured the private clients that there would be no new taxes — and for that they were clearly grateful. The minister is a good public speaker and I am not surprised that the clients of the stockbroker were happy that they wouldn’t be asked to share too much of the pain.
In the foyer I bumped into a man who imports cars. I asked how his business was doing and he said it was tough but the rising euro was working wonders, because with sterling so cheap he could get great bargains in England and offer luxury BMWs at a much reduced price to those people who still had cash.
This sums up our dilemma. Our currency is wildly overvalued, so some can still spend frivolously on BMWs and think they are getting good value, yet we can’t kick-start our local industries because they can’t compete with our biggest neighbour. So, the car importer stays in business but the small exporter goes out of business.
What type of future is envisaged by the people who make our economic policy and hold the reins of power? Is it one where we become a client state of the ECB, with our grubby hands out for a dig out from Europe via silly class rescue schemes like NAMA? Is it a future where the “protection of the euro” — as the minister constantly refers to it — leaves us enfeebled, with the economic marrow of the country hollowed out by a currency that has risen by 53pc against sterling and a similar amount against the dollar in 10 years?
But as I left the Four Seasons, it struck me. As always in Ireland, economic policy is framed by people who have a stake in society — the insiders. In contrast, the outsiders — people whose toehold in the country is fragile — are sacrificed. The euro protects those who already have wealth by securing their wealth in a hard currency that the economy can’t afford; it is just another mechanism to protect the insiders at the expense of the outsiders.
If you look at what our country does in the face of a crisis, whether it was the 1950s economic crisis or the 1980s emigration fiasco, the pattern is always the same. Instead of paying for the mess they have made, the insiders emerge from the crisis stronger and with a tighter grip on power. The outsiders always suffer. So while in the rest of the world, in countries like Iceland, a crisis causes dramatic change and the insiders pay for their mistakes, here in Ireland the crisis only strengthens the status quo — a status quo, which created the problem in the first place.
Will we ever learn?
just noticed my spelling is crap – ok Will , but while there are exceptions I dont see too many politicians with signs of ostentatious wealth. It strikes me that if there are insiders then they come from the small elite in this country who go the the same few schools and who infest the financial, and professional sectors of this country and whose forbears were there at the foundation of the state to take over from our colonial masters
Bren6, that’s one angle on it but my angle differs to that angle. Briefly, my posts goin back lay my angle out a little. I reckon the control grid the powers at be wield crossed all classes sectors demographics of society. and, one is either buying into the control grid or not., from top down. THose who play along from bottom up are not all the same. Some are weaker than others and are cowed into it. Some are more powerful than others. Some are busy trying to get out and can’t. Some have escaped. Some are double agents for good on the inside.
The control grid system works along a two tier paradigm. So, in society there operates two different economies in parallel. The top tier economy is socialist. ALL profit, No risk.
The other tire, the serfdom, all work, no play, all the risk.
The two tiers never intersect. The top tier maintain a moat around their power base and a cover up job through mind control, black op’s and poisoning of the serf’s biological chemical constitution to keep the serf dumbed down in ignorance of the truth.
Tier two mainly addicted to junk food and soap operas on the TV. It’s easy to keep them happy
Tony murphy: Yes.
Well spotted brenr6 ,now your starting to drill down to what Dentists call “the root cause” of our present social decay.Inspite of the hype,spin etc. of the vested interest’s threats of “extraction” by the IMF/ International Bondholders etc. Were starting to narrow down the source of both the real and referred pain.First thing as recommended by Dentists is Antibiotic or fresh elections.Second thing is clear out of decayed material or Banks both private and Central/ regulator/ DOF/and all other vested interest’s standing in the way of recovery. Finally filling the void left with properly vetted material to prevent re-infection or putting proper stocks and checks in place. …..Jasus thats from Tull McAdoo and I’M not even a dentist, but Ive been sitting in the Chair long enough to see whats going onn. Wink Wink.
A mystery poster, reveal more tull, is your blog nom de plume an anagram perhap’s.?
Brenr6 , They don’e see themselves as corrupt or on the take . Its small time , a couple of thousand here and a couple of thousand there . A free house for changing some postal codes . Everybody gets appointed to boards . The health boards was a great scam . We had people there in top positions with no experience of health or management .
The attitude is really laid bare by Bertie on ‘ Hardtalk ‘ over on BBC radio . ( sorry I have no idea how that link thing works )
The interiwer keeps on at him over payments that he recieved and Bertie under pressure just says it was just thousands instead of CJH’s millions . It is well worth a listen .
David does point it out in the article when he says Lenihan was giving a talk to the private clents of Goodbody Stockbrokers and telling them that there would be no new tax on them .
This is Ireland and for some reason which I will never understand you can’t be clear about these things . The sting is in calling Lenihan a good public speaker when addressing private clients over taxation when he should be debating or defending NAMA through the media or whatever .
Bren – no offence – are you either naive or living all your life in a different country. And obviously you think that there is no such thing as coming from the wrong class, wrong estate, wrong postal address, or wrong county in Ireland.
What exactly was going on between Permo and Anglo when Permo moved about 8 billion into the Anglo deposit book, to beef up Anglo’s deposits in the midst of the Joe Duffy bank run ?? The funniest bit of that story was Permo’s official statement telling us that the loan “matured” after 70 something hours. Really ?
Did you see Eddie Hobb’s series in 2003 – called “Rip-off Republic” ? Did you know that afterwards Seanie Fitz appeared on the Marion Finuicane program and told the presenter, that Hobbs should be barred from the airwaves, that the rest of the series should be cancelled, and that this thing introduced a vile element into the public that never existed previously. [in other words you were not supposed to know that you were being ripped off].
Did you know that most of the ten top ten wealthy in Ireland are tax-resident abroad. Two of them one media conglomerates. One of them wanted Bertie Ahern to be Taoiseach, and made sure it happened too.
Have you not noticed the trail of people going to England and NI to buy second hand cars, because much of the second car market is rigged. I even seen a ‘red book’ that is used by car dealers, with set prices for all car configurations and all years. Prime Time did a documentary into price fixing. As a result the authorities got on the case.
Did you know that the richest man in Ireland is rumoured to be a major backer of a governing political party ? And that the same individual is owned 10% of what was once Anglo Irish Bank ? To his credit he pays his taxes and does not get invovled in any Bono-style tax avoidance measures !!
Did you know that the Tribunals have been revealing all sorts of information concerning funny money movements involving politicians, developers, and lobbyists ?
But you are entirely correct – there is an awful lot of incompetence….Cullen, Coughlan, Dempsey, Cowen as finance minister, clown opposition politicians, etc…
And we have been sleepwalked into consenting to this arrangement, encouraged by media organizations that took the advertising penny and by a legal system that ensured that they dare not tell too much of the truth in case it damaged somebody’s character. [it seems in Ireland that if you report bad news on a complete gangster-you are damaging his character]
And the greatest con of all is making the legal fee’s the big story / scandle / point of public anger , the smoke screen for the Tribunals . How can you investigate yourself ? You set up a tribunal with no legal powers .
But people voted for these goons knowing full well that they were on the take . And not only did they vote them in once they kept on doing it over and over again .
Alan 42: Goon’s and brainwashed voted the goon’s in. I did not vote them in, neither my extended family and friend’s did either.
Not saying you did . Problem is you can never find anybody who did vote for them . Somebody did though and in great numbers .
Deco , as one would say to a stage preformer , You nailed it there !, what you have posted above is The Exact Truth , it’s just Irish been half drunk or beaten as kids or rode by the priests slapped by the nuns or slagged by the English , we just now seem to like been beaten down .
Though with been thrown off the Carnival ride of good time Celtic Tiger land , a lot are sobering up to how much we are been dictated to and run by this past civil war third generation chancers . It’s simple we need Politicians with degree’s and new faces to run the banks .
The P.R. political machine in this western zone of Europe has to be changed , fu$k it George Lee could go independent or start even his own party , David could do the same here.
You want to see what we are sending to the world trade fair ,….a mock of our perfectly planned cities !.and it will cost €4 million ,.Are These fellas taking the piss ?….How can you say Tallaght as a sub of Dublin was planned . .
We need Article 45 been pushed and they are getting over the competition law with NAMA , by subbing this cover up out to a newly formed private entity …..This is FANTASY world …
We need an Election soon
BrendanW. I do not think that we are so much a beaten down people, as an easy going, clueless, often irresponsible culture. Our societal norms have been reinforeced by strong institutions so as to make sure that we remain compliant. I would say that in Ireland there is a sense of compliance with all sorts of stupidity.
I am particularly apprehsive about people who blame all the countries ills of their pet hate(RCC, Unions, Public Sector, FF, GP, ILP,etc..) It is a culture concerning authority that is the real problem. But we have competing groups blaming each other, while having an eye on preserving the culture that they all aspire towards being at the top of eventually.
The real responisbility for our mess is very more evenly distributed than most people wish to think. Half the electorate voted Ahern into power. Three times. In fact an examination of the electoral map is insightful. Ahern’s vote contrasts completely that of either John Bruton or Albert Reynolds. Bruton and Reynolds had their strongest support along the Western seaboard, and rural consituencies. Ahern’s biggest support came from the most urban and prosperous constituencies. Ahern won 60% of the seats in places like Wicklow and Kildare. Yet his vote in rural backwaters like CorkNW, Monaghan, Longford Roscommon or Westmeath was the lowest in FF history. But now people are washing themselves of any credit for Ahern’s three elections. A lot of people need to go and follow the AA route (Ahernvoters Anonymous). I am saying this because it is a necessary predicament to intellectual development. So that we will be intellectually above voting for this kind of rogue in future.
The predicament that the Irish people are in is a result of being naive enough to allow a bunch of proven crooks, gangsters and low lifes take control of the state and the private sector.
The real problem is the intellectual culture of our society, which allows this sort of authority abuse by just about anybody.
We need to question the virtue of compliance. And I gaurantee you that if you examine the newspapers or the RTE news there is a culture of continually being condescending towards people, and attaching kudos to their pride when they perform acts of compliance.
In fact the CompliancetoAuthority-Pride junction is the essence of the national flaw !!!!
We should be wary of others trying to press it – new Aherns, and New CJH figures – which can come from any party, or any area of endeavour in Irish life.
I would further submit – along the lines of the authority-compliance-pride issue being the national flaw, that this was the very essence of what divided the nation during the Roy Keane saga. This was what this saga touched upon. It was the ultimate virtuality vs reality importance conflict in our society.
Which is more important – the appearance of things – or the need for realistic appraisal of our performance ? That was what divides Irish society.
Make sure that you are not deluding yourself, deluding others, or facilitiating others people deluded.
I suppose the crux of my line of argument is that – it is good to develop an autonomous decision making. Or to put it another way.
That people stop outsourcing critical or analytical thinking. Essential for the proper functioning of our society – not just our economy.
Brenr6 , if you have not seen politicians with ostentatious wealth , then you have to adjust how you look at them , taking home a salary of €100,000 along with extras from attending committees going to seimars, phone and office allowances, travel to their offices,postal and modem expenses. Which when totaled gives them almost 200k a year without any qualifications to support why they should be running the country in the first place. Ireland IS a Small country , if you lived in Birmingham in England you would be on the streets if the upper elite carried on the same there.
We Now have to Stand up and get off the sky boxed furniture and like the Islanders , go bang on these boys doors
Brendan W – The British elite do carry on the same way, witness their recent expenses scandal. When I said ostentatious I guess I meant wealth in the context of Seanie Fitzpatrick and friends. I have no problem paying a politician a 100k if theyre good at what they do but the only thing that seems to animate most of the back benchers is drink driving legislation. I come back to my original point WE are the employer – We take them on and pay them – WE have to take the blame and do something about it otherwise we go out of business if we havent done so already. So the least we can do is stop voting for the people who behave irresponsibly, incompetently or in a corrupt manner. Im beginning to think boycotting the next election would be an act of democratic patriotism until we get something worth voting for.
Bren6: “We are their employer”. The gov is merely a mechanism for the elites to implement their wishes and delights. The governing system in Ireland is broken. it works for the banking criminal syndicate. This is now proven itself to be true come the overnight phonecall to comrade lenihan and in a matter of 3 hours the banks got the land of ireland s income available to them, and the peoples bond issuance available to them to pay off their Casino tab.
Wills , we can simply turn over the Banks if we colectively do a Joe Duffy on it and go down this Friday and ask to withdraw our money , in cash if they could be so kind !,.and if not then a bankers draft , if we stayed out of all shops on saturday by Sunday masses Lenihan would be in control
Europe is a pretty ambitious undertaking. You gotta admit that the process of getting a bunch of countries working together takes some doing and some brains. And those same brains are still at work.
Once heard a story about the Pope bringing an Anglican around the Vatican library and showing him the letter where Henry VIII gave the Catholic Church the old heave ho. It was in that part of the library called “current affairs”. As far as they were concerned, it was going to take a few more centuries to roll them back into the Church again and it was not seen as “long term”. What I want to illustrate here is the breath of vision of these guys in Europe. Centuries mean nothing.
I for one have tended to be skeptical of Will’s view of an inherent elite running the shop while the scrubbers take their lumps. I do tend to believe that humans en mass tend to bumble along from one crisis to another. But this NAMA thing and the way the ECB are bankrolling it to the detriment of all Europeans smells of planning. They cannot allow the Euro to collapse and if necessary they will take control of assets to create a resourced based economy to stabilise things. NAMA is really the end of money as we know it with resource issuance to the punters according to their allegiances to the European order.
“They” are going to be groups that got together to make Europe happen. And they are not going to let it be screwed up by anyone. Least of all a laissez faire style of running the economy which can wreck long term planning in a resource constrained world.
And yes, I do think we are headed for a centrally planned economy becasue there is nothing out there that suggests that we can ever have full employment in the manner we once had. Also, protecting the environment means coordinated planning at a level never achieved before. Europe has to operate as one or we are all down the tubes.
basically laissez faire capitalism a la Adam Smith is passe.
Philip,
I have an uncle who is clongowes educated, and works in finance for a large oil firm. He said to me at a dinner party about three or four years ago, that Dublin is not run by Dublin. It is run by London, and they decide how much credit we get, or whetehr we get any at all. He is also in favour of NAMA, but that is because he is a bond holder. He wants to lose, yet still bring home his winnings if you know what i mean.
Dilly, that was one of my first posts on here on that point. ANIB was a bridge head from the city of london to drown ireland in debt. It is organized as is the sudden credit freeze, this did not happen by happy accident and it never ceases to amaze me how it is that people seem to think the bankers do not know what they are doing.
Will, agreed. Where we find ourselves is either gross incompetence or planned malevolence.
I fail to see how the key gatekeepers could be any thicker than the rest of us?
Things usually happen to the betterment of those who have a longterm plan. If you have a short-term one, or none other than staying in power, you very easily become a subset of someone else’s machinations. That’s been the nature of civilisation since they year dot.
I like BrendanW’s idea of mass withdrawal of funds and literally holding the country to ransom. Those with money should resist the collective Irish Catolic guilt love-in that is billed as NAMA and cause the momentary shutdown of the irish retail banking sector. We all know that NAMA could be just as easily be a vehicle for nursing private mortgages and responsible credit lending (longterm game) to Irish exporting SMEs.
Dont get me wrong, Dilly. when I say Europe, I am not implying Brussels. Only a nutter would discount the London influence. What I am saying is Europe as an project cannot be allowed to fail. I also think that no one is interested in mass unrest or wasteful herding of the dissidents. The game has changed. The rich cannot get any richer and the world is starting to wobble a bit with mass unemployment etc. Social stability is going to become important. The question is do we downsize as a species or upsize on the management?
Folks, remember Andrew Fastow of ENRON?
Well, he is currently serving a prison sentence for running SPEs, just like the SPV that NAMA will use to keep it “off-balance-sheet” for Govt debt purposes vis a vis the ECB.
Nama and its SPV could not happen, unless the ECB were in on it.
Fastow is in prison; no-one in Ireland has gone to prison. The SEC stopped ENRON’s SPEs; the ECB is supporting Nama’s SPV.
I think that makes it pretty clear that what Deco, wills and Philip are saying is absolutely correct.
It will be VERY interesting to see, if MK1 gets his wish, just what the European Court makes of it all (Don’t forget, Trichet was in trouble for Bank corruption before and a leopard never changes its spots).
The SEC didn’t ‘stop’ Enron’s SPVs. The parallel is much more interesting than that.
One quarter, Enron was not going to make it’s numbers, so someone told the CFO, Andy Fastow, to sort it out, any way he could. So he put together an of balance sheet vehicle, and persuaded a bunch of borker/dealers & banks to lend it money against Enron shares. This money could be booked as earnings by Enron (income from the SPV). As long as the share price kept rising, all was well with the SPVs, and the share price kept rising as long as new SPVs were created to provide earnings.
As you say, NAMA is an off balance sheet vehicle for the banking/property sector. Once released from the troubles of their debts, they will carry on with their businesses.
Anyone want to open a book on how long before NAMA2 is required?
Folks, pay particular attention to paragraph 5 by Roubini:
http://www.businessworld.ie/bworld/livenews.htm?a=2496764
Nama has no chance of working, if it goes ahead with paying the Long-term-economic-value.
Maybe NAMA is not meant to work as a financial vehicle. Maybe it is purely a mechanism of moving securitised assets to bondholders who are also pulling the ECB strings. Think of it…print loads of dosh at 1% so the bankers/bonderholders here get their fee at 4%. Distressed assets sitting on NAMA’s books wind up being bought for a song by the vested interests – using taxpayers money to pay the 4% fee. (remember it’s not just the Irish taxpayer) Transfer of ownership is executed and before you know it Irsh will find a lot of barriers preventing them from developing their businesses here….and this will spread across the EU. Watch what’ll happen in Spain…And while I am at it, I think the main reason they want to control Ireland quickly is becasue there is no landbridge to here. Invasion and diminution of landrights rights from within. …maybe I should throttle back a bit now and get an early nights rest.
philip: sounding out an idea and it makes sense.
Mr Wimpy economics. Its what we should be calling Brian Lenihan. I’ll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
Yeh right.
Folks, notice that, during the boom, when the “country was awash with money”, the politicians kept calling it “Ireland Inc.” and the elite was getting rich.
Now that the elite is scrambling to prevent its gambling losses reducing them to the level of ordinary citizens and taxpayer money is required to save them, the politicians are, suddenly this week, referring to Ireland as a “community” again, just as CJH did in the famous “belt-tightening” speech.
When the rich are getting richer, the teachers and nurses and gardai are called “the unproductive sector” of the economy; when the rich need to be saved from their own gambling profligacy, we are all a “community” again and “everyone must share the pain”.
It makes me sick.
It makes me sick too tim.
Yes, and the Bodenstown annual rePUBlicans are getting very familiar with the word ‘patrotic’ and ‘unpatriotic’ lately. First da Bert, then Mr Wimpy. Seems to centre more around defending the euro (our little biteen of it and the resultant penalties if we don’t comply), if you ask me.
Folks, NAMA debate on LTEV is live now, here:
http://www.rte.ie/live/index.html
Have a look?
I’m looking at the link tim and it seem’s to be all a bit of a laugh for the gaggle of eejits across the whole of the house. Oh Lenihan getting very nasty with joan bruton asserting the truth, very fast moving in to shut her up, fascinating, pitiful,….
george lee on his feet. Asserting stiglitz accusation of criminality of NAMA and lenihan blurts out stiglitz is not taking seriously in the USA, ??? Unbelievable
burton accusing gov of valuing NAMA toxic assets at 2004 property prices as an equivalent to ireland putting a man on the moon.
Voting on amendments and it’s like a youth club laugh in fest!!!
When Lenihan says “Ta” in a vote, even in jest, surely, It should be registered as official vote? NAMA ammendment 120
The guy is joking and laughing about it!
The valuation-date has not been fixed, yet? How to vote on LTEV without an agreed date?
Where are opposition TDs to vote and push-through amendments? NAMA They are in on it and playing the game!
“Pairing-rubbish”, again!
Aha! There’s the “Deal”!
The “Rolled-up interest” is to be ignored by NAMA, the banks lose that, the developer doeas not have to pay it, and the asset-value ALONE is dealt with.
So, amendment 131 falls.
Amendment 135: “That upper-limits be set as to the Long Term Economic Value”
Carried.
So, if (and its a big IF) NAMA makes a profit, that profit is to be limited, before it starts?
“Market-Value” and “Long-Term-Economic-Value” are equated by amendment 137 – “Passed”!
I keep saying that we have a Democratic-defecit. This, most important of debates in Dail Eireann, proves that. All TDs know this is happening, yet few are present.
Why are the opposition benches not loaded against the govt benches, in order to push through the opposition amendments?
“Because they are in-on-it!”
Tim,
Maybe I’m wrong here, but isn’t this at committee stage? Does this mean only people on the committee can vote? Don’t the government have a majority on this committee, nullifying any attempt by the opposition to push through their amendments?
Colin_in_exile, maybe… have to check; It says “Dail Debate” and does not say “committe stage”, though it may be that.
Rabbitt left to appear on Vincent Browne’s TV3 show, instead of remaining to vote, so, I don’t know what they are doing – but I consider that to be odd, at the very least.
Its at committee stage.
http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=FIS20091029.xml&Node=H3#H3
but its held in the dail chamber to allow as many deputies to attend, even though they cannot vote on it.
So, its not a democratic deficit, unless I’m misunderstanding something….
And section 77 is agreed, despite ignoring peak-oil in 2013 vis a vis LTEV!
A developer may preside over an “Empire” of 250 companies, only some 70 of which, may be taken-over by NAMA.
Why does anyone need 250 companies, for the purpose of conducting, essentially, the same business?
Tax-avoidance, that’s why; Ltd. companies; Limited liability, so they don’t have to pay for their mistakes – they can fold the company, leaving debts in its wake, and re-open next week, under a different name.
Freedom, without responsibility.
Wouldn’t we all love that?
David,
“The Icelanders took their medicine straight away and allowed their currency to fall dramatically. This has been evidently painful for many but as a local policeman suggested to me, “So what if we have fewer Range Rovers and less camembert?”
Irish insiders don’t want to take any medicine because they don’t even recognise that they are ill. They’re not suffering so can you blame them? Status symbols like Range Rovers are far too important for them to consider parting with.
Some people here were wondering why aren’t 000,000s taking to the streets. Well, my take on that is that these potential protesters are more concerned with their own properties losing value, and know NAMA will attempt to stabilise these asset values at an unsustainable high level. You see, at the end of the day, its every Paddy for himself.
Colin_in_exile, I am not in negative equity, have no “interest” in NAMA, but oppose it because it is wrong.
Not “every Paddy for himself”.
I give of my time and my money (what little is left to me, after levies and taxes) to fighting these wrongs.
I am not alone.
Not everyone has the “hoover-mentality”.
Tim,
I know you marched, well done, I would have done too but I’m abroad working. So, 5,000 turned up, great, so 4,220,000 didn’t turn up? Let me do the maths….for every good Paddy, there’s 844 every Paddy for themselves.
By the way, just heard tonight the brother will be losing his job in the mid west in the new year. I hope Public Sector workers remember the likes of my brother when they talk about making sacrifices.
Colin_in_exile, Public sector workers have brothers, too; and spouses/children, etc. in the private sector and do not need to “remember” them, when talking about making sacrifices – they are there with us.
The division between private and public sectors is a govt/media construct for the purpose of spin.
In reality, we are all together.
But the govt/media do not “do” reality.
Tim,
The reality is that Gardai, Teachers & Nurses have an awful habit of marrying eachother, meaning a little snip to their income is all they’re going to suffer.
A household headed by 2 private sector workers are in deep sh1t compared to the households above.
“So while in the rest of the world, in countries like Iceland, a crisis causes dramatic change and the insiders pay for their mistakes, here in Ireland the crisis only strengthens the status quo — a status quo, which created the problem in the first place.”
But didn’t Bertie already explain what happened…..that Lehman Brothers caused this crisis, I’m surprised he didn’t blame the coloured folk of Detroit with their sub-prime loans defaulting, but I suppose he’s clever enough not to invite being labelled a rascist, or Bill Clinton for forcing those banks to lend to those folks, ah shure Bill’s a great fella altogether. Now, where did I leave my cigar?
Oh, the Zoe case is different, because it was “an Examinership”.
NAMA developers will be different?
Okay, so, Brian. Thanks.
Amendment 156 falls, so, including section 96.
Back to 109 now, sections 82(iii) “Functions of the Reviewer”.
But the Minister, ultimately, makes the decision under section 114?
Jesus!
Aha! At section 111, if there is a challenge to a decision under 109. 82(iii), then, it is kicked to the Minister, as final arbiter of the review, at Section 114.
I have it, now!
Section 116: “Who will be on the Valuation Panel”?
What vested-interests will they have?
The panel has not been prescribed as independent; so, it should not be passed.
The sole power is given to the Minister to select that panel.
I notice that it is being discussed under the assumption that the “Minister” will be a different person, quite soon. (Burton and Bruton seem particularly concerned).
Amendments 177, 182 and 186 being taken together, now.
Wearing the opposition down; George Lee has left.
It is 3:08am.
I watched a lot of the Nama debate to get insight to the Integrity of what will be the most important political process in our lives, as it will shape the entire future of Ireland.
It reinforced my earlier impression that the EC is directing policy here and that the Committee stage is merely window dressing of a totalitarian process. Pat Rabitt said as much but was shouted down by the chairman, who used his power unsparingly to drown out opposition opposition objections. There can be no worthwhile debate on complex issues when each committee member is limited to 2 or 3 minutes and shut down forcefully if they exceed that. Some of the amendments about valuation deserved a full days debate in the full Dail.
Burton, Bruton and O’Donnell did their best but George Lee was a dismal failure, emerging red-faced and stuttering from one brush with Lenihan.
I remain impressed by Lenihan who retained his human qualities throughout –no mean feat. He had total command of the detail in most of the amendments. Perhaps deliberately, he waited until after 10pm to produce an EC document that cast a whole new complexion on the debate as it compared other nations approaches to similar bank busts. This document apparently set the ground rules under which he was operating. This intervention got Burton all charged up and showed her to be a formidable alternative finance minister.
The key characteristic of the debate was its openness and I look forard to red DMcW’s comments on how it played and how the actors performed.
Brian Lenihan: “What was my amendment, sorry?”
Baby Brute tries to help, but falters…..
They are too tired to debate this important legislation; I am convinced that this is the typical FF strategy to rush matters through, under duress of fatigue.
It’s working.
Live-feed terminated 3:15am
Can’t get it back, sorry.
How long will they go on?
I need sleep. Goodnight, all.
Th U.S. has announced that it is officially out of recession. Try telling that to this guy… very funny (and he knows his sh*t too)
http://www.monkeybusinessblog.com/mbb_weblog/2009/10/hell-it-takes-even-eli-manning-six-years-to-make-a-hundred-million-dollars.html
Here is an amusing little piece from the media downunder .
I think they did not really understand the logic or mixed themselves up .
It is about Charlie McCreevy giing a speech at the university of NSW .
‘ Just last week , Mr McCreevy launched the biography of his close friend , former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern .
At the event , Mr Ahern said that the country was in safe hands when he was Taoiseach and McCreevy was Minister For Finance .
Mr McCreevy said that he and Mr Ahern had pulled some political strokes in their day , adding that ” for the benifit of non Irish people , political strokes are always done by Fianna Fail , other parties do things in the national interest “
Furrylugs- today I was informed of a masterpiece of work written by a biochemist( I am told) who lives in Roscommon area and this documents chronicles all the arguments how the constitution has failed the public .The name of the writer is Roger Elders under the banner of National Councilling Services of Ireland.Next week I will in possession of this document .
Folks, Essential Reading, on NAMA, the ecb and money for nothing.
http://bit.ly/HwiyC
Democratic deficit, anyone? Financial Coup d’Etat, anyone? Lisbon3, anyone?
On redaing back through the forum., it seems this JIM character from Australia was calling all this 6 months ago,so where the hell were Dr. Tony Leddin et al back then ????.Jeez I know Ausrtralia is 8 hours ahead but 6 months.I hate when these people turn up after the fact,when nothing can be done,and tell us all what the bloody hell we already know!!!!AAARRRRRGGGHHH.
Tull McAdoo, understood; but there is value in the fact that this stuff is finally being written about in mainstream media again by people other than DMcW, who has been ploughing quite a lonely furrow since February ’09, when the DoF silenced Alan Ahearne.
(and, if I’m not mistaken, jim called it much earlier than 6 months ago!)
Where are you, jim?
Methinks Jim is with us Tim. G’day Tull.
paddythepig, you reckon? If so, it is an interesting and impressive change of writing-style.
I wonder if he’ll tell us if you are right?
Folks, I contacted Senator Dan Boil on Twitter and said this:
“@sendboyle You were given the better alternative #NAMA at #Leviathan, Dan; I was watching. Please consider Peter’s option – he’s been there.” (referring to Peter Matthews, who worked out the banks’ problems in the ’80s).
Boil responded with:
“@tnteacherTim Had met and discussed with Peter. Didn’t think his proposal was more feasible or more sound.”
I replied with:
“Please revisit? RT @sendboyle: @tnteacherTim Had met and discussed with Peter. Didn’t think his proposal was more feasible or more sound.”
and:
“Alan Ahearne had similar in JanRT @sendboyle: @tnteacherTim discussed with Peter. Didn’t think his proposal was more feasible or more sound.”
Will see where it leads, but probably nowhere, since he thinks himself qualified to second-guess DMcW, Alan Ahearne (pre-purchase by DoF), 46 academic economists and Peter Matthews.
In the meantime, make of it what you will.
Tim , He is a Green . They are a one issue party . At a time when the Irish economy should be reducing their costs they want to impose a carbon tax . What kind of a tax will make you reduce your costs ?
I was discussing this today with an Labour State MP ( I have joined the Australian Labour party ) . We got around to discussing Ireland and when I told him that the Irish Greens were the junior partner in government he just started laughing .
Oh, and, for those of you who missed it, here is Matthews’ alternative:
http://bankermathews.com/the-alternative/
He has broken-ranks from the insiders and cored with DMcW at Leviathan to show-up Boil and Fahey.
Folks, worth a read:
http://www.irishelection.com/2009/10/where-is-the-nama-levy-gone/
Tim you have a couple of balls in the air at the moment as you juggle to make sense of Nama via you links above. So lets see if we can simplify your choices and judge the merits and investment opportunities they represent. Imagine your called in to the Principal’s office on Monday and He tells you this…..Tim from now on you will be responsible for the Administration of you own Pension Fund which is due to mature in 10 years. Your investment choices right now are the following.
1. Keep your money where it is, as part of the present pension fund, which will be investing in pork bellies, cocoa cola, blah di blah as it’s always done.
2. Invest in New Nama SPV.
3. Invest in Banks recently acquired Subordinate Bond from Nama SPV.
4. Invest in AIB/BOI share
So what do you think of your choices?
As a side note not aimed at you Tim but as a general observation :
Remember this is real money and decisions will be made by people in the near future. Don’t the choices become very stark when its time to put your money on the table? I bet if I asked Linehan the same question about His money he would sit up fairly straight on that front bench and not be so condescending like He was last night. I like to get the sense that these people were treating Taxpayers money as if it were their own. The sense I’m getting is that this is some sort of game of Monopoly with every stroke, bluff, debate being used to win. Then it’s off home in the Merc. and come back next week for another game. You see in the real World of Investing there is NO safety nets or RESET buttons and that’s the real difference between the World occupied by Linehan and His DOF et al and the World I live in.
Tull McAdoo, all true.
Q. Why don’t you ask Lenihan that?
Because like Cowen He has never had to live in the real World. Groomed from an early age through College, Bar ,etc straight into the Dail (another institution).Career Politicians with safe seats become delusional and disjointed in their thinking of how the real World works, but I suspect you already knew that.
I did.
Tull McAdoo, I have shared a panel with this man and he is one very smooth operator and, I believe, will answer your email/call/whatever.
Try it:
http://www.brianlenihan.ie/contact-brian.html
Let us know what happens?
Put your money in the Sub.Bond it pays anout 7% p.a. and wont be defaulted on. After all FF would’nt like anyone in the World to think they would’nt honour their debts, especially when it comes to paying them with other peoples money.
Tull McAdoo, I don’t have any money to invest. I am a teacher in the public service and I support my teaching “Habit”, with a small computer-firm.
Most of us are, just, “Surviving”.
But, that’s enough.
Our problem is with the F**cers who demand more than that.
Don’t waste your time Tim
These are they layers as I see it
Top layer – the very rich, big business – control EU – thanks to 67% of Irish voters. The favorite until recently for the presidents job.. this
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1224190/Inside-Blair-Inc-Complex-web-official-duties-secretive-private-companies-business-deals-make-life-No-10-lucrative.html
Not very bright 67% if you ask me
Layer 2 – The legals & gombeens in D2,D4,D6 – many are easy to manipulate, some are easily parted from there money (and taxpayers money) by the top layer – they are gombeens after all, but they do good none the less, because the get bailed out by layers below. I’d place lenihan in this layer
Layer 3 – the fanatical politicians, the Fianna Failers v the Fine gaelers. Cowen sits here, along with the Kenny’s, jackie healy rae’s, john o’donoghues, frank faheys of this world. Obviously doing ok financially
Layer 4 – labour & trade unions leaders – nothing small about their salaries
Layer 5 – the green’s who are not very bright really, but because they keep the fianna failers in power, they got some influence. At the next election, the get there pensions – but will eventually become extent – and good riddance.
Layer 6 – those who know what layers 1-5 are up to – or at least think they do, but know they have to make a living – so get on with it as best the can
Layer 7 – teachers, nurses, gardai – they obviously have influence.
Layer 8 – the hard working people – or those unemployed looking for work who just couldn’t care what happens in layers 1-7 as long as the can just live a reasonably comfortable life. They don’t question the government. Vote as they are told. These are the sheep being led to the slaughter
Layer 9, those on social welfare, where social mobility is limited and becoming more limited by the day. Again, they do what they are told
Layer 10 – the criminals who rob, smuggle etc, some in jail
tony_murphy: I’m afraid it has always been like that in Ireland. The Sechus Mor graded society using the following hierarchy two thousand years ago:
The 26 Titles of Dignity
1. Triath King. A mighty King
2. King of Kings. King over 7 Kings of territories.
3. King of Territories.
4. Aire Forgaill. One whose genealogy is known and established.
5. Aire Ard. Warrior chief
6. Aire Tuise. Representative of a tribe.
7. Aire Desa. One who preserves the patrimony of his father and grandfather.
8. Aire Fine. One whose family is noble.
9. Idhna-person. Has his sons and relatives behind him. (30)
10. Ansruth-person. Protects his mansion and land.
11. Dae-person. A mercenary.
12. Full flaithem-person. Has ≥ 3 long-standing tenants.
13. Half flaithem-person. Has 2 long-standing tenants.
14. Half flaithem-person. Has 1 long-standing tenant.
15. Boaire chief. Has land to the value of 10 cows.
16. Second of a boaire chief. Has land to the value of 8 cows.
17. Uaitne chief. Overseer.
——————(Below here they are not entitled to be taken to Assemblies.)
18. Henchman. A soldier of good race.
19. Man who has lost patrimony.
20. A baitse tenant. An unfree tenant.
21. A cow-grazier on the green.
22. An oinmit-man. Unsteady by nature.
23. A midlach-man. ? A homosexual.
24. A reim-man. A clown or buffoon.
25. A marsh man. A robber.
26. A crumb fox. A beggar.
Now we have: President, Toiseach, Cabinet, TDs, County Councillors, Community Councillors, Big farmers, Small farmers, etc. etc.
Nothing changes, except the cast of personalities. Each of us can try to place ourselves on this scale.
:-) I think I’m “A baitse tenant.” I’m a slave to the building society because I’ve got quite a hefty mortgage
maybe I should email http://www.brianlenihan.ie/contact-brian.html – possibly at 3am some morning, maybe he’ll pay off my debts?
Malcolm: Great post.
Tony: Great post.
And the “Principal” is not a “He”; 84/26 chance against that, since no-one wants the job, certainly not a man; have not wanted it ever, myself and “men” have not wanted it for years.
I have refused to apply for it 3 times, now…..
You want it? Take it!
(if you have the degree and the Post-grad).
My point was for illustration purposes only as I am aware of your position.You see the Sub.Bond was to placate the Greens with their illusion of risk sharing. 5% of total Bonds were Sub.Bonds or 2.7 billion and when they pay out @7% that equates to 189 million per year or 1.89 billion over the lifetime of the Bond. So after 10 years they can cash their original Bond for its original value of 2.7 billion and when you add in the interest of 1.89 billion that they collect along the way gives you 2.7+1.89 =4.59 billion.Now if you factor in that they were to re-invest their interest each year ,you arrive at the point where they collect an amount pretty much equal to the original bond or 2.7 billion along the way .i.e. they double their money after 10 years.So the Green Party’s idea of risk sharing is double your money after 10 years for the Banks at the Taxpayers expense. Now Tim would’nt you need to pack a lot of bags at your local Supermarket over the next 10 years to match that? Tim I admire you tenacity and how you fight to protect that PE Teacher but your World is not Linehans World as I’ve said already.You fight for every Euro while He plays His Monopoly and gives away 2.7 billion of them to the Banks and bluffs the Greens with the old line of “its an Accountancy Technicality”…na glasrai !!!indeed!!!.Goodnight My Friend .Sleep Well……..p.s. remind me in 6 months to buy a copy of the Times ,I’m sure they will have picked up on this Sub. Bond issue by then.
Tull McAdoo, Agreed, all.
No argument.
Reverting to original style, though……
Why pretend at all? (Especially when you are so good at this?)
84/16, sorry!
21-4
Tull McAdoo, thanks for truth. (I know that I am an idiot, sometimes, but I am trying to learn. Both you and jim have been teaching me alot.)
A “Gentle-christian-Man”.
Instead of boycotting elections, marching in the streets etc, it seems to me the “revolution” would be best achieved by a mass nomination of independents for the next election. Storm the Dail by getting elected to it on a reform agenda.
I tried that once . Spoke to the guy at length . He promised all kinds of reform . Gave him my number one vote .He is then elected and next thing you know he is on the next plane to Columbia to make sure a bunch of bird watchers with an extensive background in bomb making and false passports recieve a fair trial . Next I hear of him he want to smoke in the Dail bar and then he goes on to make a deal to back FF .
If Fidel Castro stood for election in Ireland he would back FF to the hilt .
Today’s Indy mentions that it was DMcW who recommended the bank guarantee scheme to Lenihan, according to Follow the Money.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lenihan-and-mcwilliams-lock-horns-over-books-late-night-meeting-claim-1929981.html
It seems to have worked so far.
Also:http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/david-mcwilliams-the-night-lenihan-banged-on-my-front-door-1930001.html
Thanks
Frightening.
Especailly if you ask where was the EU at the time?
We were on our own.
MaxKeiser: Each new revelation casts a different light on the emerging solution. I feel mightily relieved that DMcW and Lenihan could get their heads together, as their skills are complementary and together they make a formidable combination.
Back then the ECB hadn’t worked out how to respond to the crisis, so you are right to point that out.
The Germans were terrified of inflation and were very reluctantly dragged into QE later, when deflation seemed the bigger problem.
Ireland’s ballsy response will be written up in economics textbooks for centuries to come, as these crises will happen again, sure as night follows day.
In the Rep. of Ireland…….
NAMA proves beyond a reasonable doubt ………..
‘there has been a bank takeover of government that will leave the taxpayer as slaves to bank roll and bank run gambling casino’s.’
The irish populace will pay the consequences to fund the gambling parlours.
The Rep of irelands society is now run on gambling as industry going forward into the future.
I suspect when David recommended the guarantee when he did if he did as asserted, he underestimated the scale of the great POnzi swindle under way by a select band of slimeball traitors and money grubbing shysters and snake oil’s men.
If it’s the case David was blind sided by the easy money easy profit technocrats and fickle university graduate careerists in hand me down jobs for the boyo crony networks which plague society across USA and europe and POnzi Rep, i suspect David can be forgiven for his contretemp.
Apparently Greenspan was taken in by the scale and scummy slippery nature of the parasite too.
No harm done, really, for David’s never given the impression, to me at least, he is infallible in the area of socio – economic cultural deductions.
wills – messiah – reveal thyself and show us the way to redemption of the pONzi Scheme
Wills – tunnel vision.
Let’s leave messiah for Obama and brown and the rest, and Bertie.
p ON zi Scheme EXIT:
I believe the solution for all of us, thieves and non thieves is through…….
Transcendent Function.
Malcolm at 40 dropped a link, very interesting article.
Lenihan visit to David’s home in the middle of the night eating cloves pinching cheeks flattering intel out of David.
Looks like too me the ‘powers at be’ are keeping a very close eye on certain individuals.
Article; W A L U F A S W O.
Post 4: Deco – ‘it is a case of protecting large hereditary capitalist enterprises, who are too well connected to fail’.
Post 11: Deco – ‘the system is structured to ensure that those who can influence the system will extort economic rent from it. In effect our entire economy and political system has turned into an immoral system for screwing those who work, for the benefit of the gombeen element.’
……….casino capitalism superstructure.
NAMA & the Stalking Horse
A stalking horse is a person who tests a concept with someone or mounts a challenge against them on behalf of an anonymous third party. If the idea proves viable and/or popular, the anonymous figure can then declare their interest and advance the concept with little risk of failure. If the concept is ‘shot down in flames’, the anonymous party will not be ‘tainted by association’ and can either drop the idea completely or ‘bide their time’ and wait until a better moment for launching an attack.
The term stalking horse originally derived from the practice of hunting. Hunters noticed that many birds would flee immediately on the approach of humans, but would tolerate the close presence of animals such as horses and cattle.
Hunters would therefore slowly approach their quarry by walking alongside their horses, keeping their upper bodies out of sight until the flock was within firing range. Animals trained for this purpose were called stalking horses.
NAMA & the Stalking Horse in practice:
The expression is generally used in politics and business. In politics, the circumstances are an attempt to bring down a powerful leader, usually by members of their own party. In business, the circumstances are an attempt at testing the market for a potential (hostile) takeover. In each case, there is the clear understanding that the anonymous party, whether a company or an individual, has a valuable reputation – a brand – that could be damaged by the failure.
The stalking horse is an exercise in assessing accurately the degree of risk, so that a full-blooded challenge is only mounted by the main party when there is a real likelihood of success.
The loser in the exercise appears to be the stalking horse. If the idea is viable and/or popular, the stalking horse will lose out because the anonymous figure will discard them and take over the concept themselves. If the concept is unpopular, the stalking horse will be ‘shot down in flames’ and will get metaphorically burned. The understanding is that the anonymous party is a major player – a Big Beast – probably only a little weaker than the Target themselves, and the stalking horse very much a minor figure – a minnow- who has little or no reputation to lose. The anonymous figure is not sufficiently powerful, or does not have sufficient confidence in their power, to risk a direct attack first off, but the stalking horse is a form of distraction tactic to enable better positioning.
Examples in politics
The phenomenon occurs particularly in politics, where a junior politician acts as the stalking horse to promote the interests of a senior politician who remains unseen in case the actions would damage him or her but nevertheless wants to provoke a debate or challenge to a party colleague. In some cases stalking horses are not working for a particular individual but may wish to provoke a response that leads others to join in. In politics, the truth about the relationship between an individual stalking horse and a candidate may never be known, as both sides may claim that the (alleged) stalking horse acted without the agreement of anyone else.
An example occurred here in the Ireland in 1992, involving former Fianna Fáil minister Seán Doherty, who had once been engulfed in a scandal over the revelation that as Minister for Justice he sanctioned the tapping of two journalists’ telephones. At the time of the scandal in 1982, Doherty claimed that then party leader Charles Haughey played no part in the tapping of the telephones. In 1992 however he changed his story and insisted that Haughey had been an active participant. In the resulting furore, Haughey, who was Taoiseach, was forced to resign and was replaced by former Minister Albert Reynolds. Media critics regarded Doherty as a stalking horse for Reynolds though both men denied any involvement in what the media alleged was a “staged crisis,” Doherty insisting that he acted alone in provoking the crisis, without having consulted Reynolds, much less acted for him.
Another classic example of the latter form, from the world of British politics, was the case of the elderly and largely unknown back-bench politician Sir Anthony Meyer, who challenged and brought about the eventual defeat of Margaret Thatcher in the Conservative Party leadership. Although Meyer’s bid failed, as was expected, it brought the leadership issue out into the open and flushed out who would defend Mrs. Thatcher and who was prepared to fly off as soon as an alternative leader presented themselves. Screened by Sir Anthony’s distracting intervention, a ‘Big Beast’ could then observe who the targets were, where they were and how many there were. The Iron Lady would not see the real attack until a genuine and credible rival was in position, ready to attack. Meyer was so obscure that he was memorably referred to as ‘the stalking donkey’.
Sure enough, assisted by this ‘testing of the waters’ or ‘market-research’, Michael Heseltine (a Big Beast of the Party at the time) declared himself ready to stand for the leadership. Ultimately, this bid too was unsuccessful, as the Party produced an ‘anyone but Heseltine’ candidate, in the form of John Major.
In business, an associated company that expects a share in the contracts or the market-share that will result from the demise of the business rival.
In the event of failure, the anonymous party is seen as being sufficiently powerful to protect the ‘horse’ from any real retribution on the part of the target, particularly since the anonymity will allow the Third Party to step in and pretend to be an honest broker between the ‘horse’ and the target. This is a further opportunity to enhance the reputation of the Third Party and boost their status at the expense of the target. This is an example of a win-win situation. If the exercise is viable, the Third Party gains power immediately, but even if it fails, it engineers an opportunity to resolve a stalemate and enhance the contender’s reputation, so that ultimate success is another step nearer, to the benefit of both the Third Party and the ‘horse’, who expects to slipstream in his/her wake.
In bankruptcy:
A stalking horse bid is a first, favorable bid solicited by the bankrupt company strategically to prevent low ball offers.
Related concepts
One related concept is the smokescreen. Like a stalking horse, smokescreens are used to screen and mask an attack. In the literal and genuine form, the smokescreen is still a device used in warfare (in defence as well as attack), but in general usage, it is also a common used metaphor. A stalking horse would be a particular form of ‘smokescreen’.
Another concept is the eminence grise. This means literally ‘the gray figure’, that is to say the figure lurking in the shadows. Another phrase for this is the puppet-master. One person, the ‘horse’, dances like a puppet in the limelight on the stage, but another, the anonymous figure, is the one who is actually pulling the strings, unseen by all. The stalking horse appears to be acting for and as themselves, but there are others in the shadows. The difference is that the eminence grise or puppet-master is definitely controlling the puppet, but the stalking horse may not always be acting on the orders of, or to the benefit of, a particular – named – individual: they may be acting for a cause, in the hope that some individual will be inspired to enter the fray and take over.
A final related concept is that of the sacrificial pawn. In the game of chess, a pawn may be advanced in the knowledge that it will definitely be lost, but in so doing it will force out an enemy piece of much higher value and make that piece much more susceptible to attack. This image is also in common usage as an obvious metaphor. The difference with the stalking horse is that not only is the outcome not known at the outset but, furthermore, that it cannot reasonably be estimated without a proper reconnaissance. Unlike the pawn, therefore, the horse might have a good chance of survival. What is definite is that, either way, the ‘horse’ will not benefit from the initial exercise.
An example in bankruptcy
On October 22, 2007, technology company SCO asked a bankruptcy court to approve a deal whereby a purchaser would acquire “substantially all assets used by the Company in connection with its SCO UNIX Business and certain related claims in litigation.” The agreement included a “stalking horse” provision: If the purchaser, York Capital Management, were to be designated as a stalking horse in subsequent bidding for SCO’s assets, and if others outbid York, then SCO would have to pay York a $780,000 breakup fee and reimbursement of all expenses incurred by York up to $300,000. In this way, York would earn its expenses and $780,000 by acting as the stalking horse and preventing other bidders from making lowball offers.
An example in film
Jeremiah Johnson and Bear Claw Chris Lapp are hunting elk in the Rockies:
Jeremiah: Wind’s right, but he’ll just run soon as we step out of these trees.
Bear Claw: Trick to it. Walk out on this side of your horse.
Jeremiah: What if he sees our feet?
Bear Claw: Elk don’t know how many feet a horse has!
~ With thanks to Wikipedia
max: where are you going with this?? Is it tied in with DMcW’s book revealing mid night caller, BL, under hood of night hoodwinking the truth seeker sage for what to do?
Is it about BL goosing D into originator of guarantee idea and if it failed pinning the blame on redsr!
Is it a metaphor for BL tapping D for intel under pretense. ‘What would a truther do?!’ “Lets play pretend D and find out?!”
Is it this…………….
BL calls into D. Play s D.
D put’s forward his idea – full guarantee.
BL takes it and use’s it BUT as far as BL is concerned he is implementing D’s idea SO in BL’s head the guarantee idea is not his it’s D’s cos D said it out loud first, SO, BL implements guarantee BUT it’s nothing to do with him it was D’s idea and so all the rest of the scamming following on from the first decision goes back NOT to BL but D cos D put the idea out there first.
Is that it MAx, cos, if it is it, i reckon you are spot blinkin ON.
Trying to say NAMA is a stalking horse, a decoy of sorts if you will. FF have used this before (Phone Tapping Scandal) & are at it again.
I am not into conspiracy theories at all at all, but NAMA fits so well for every example of a Stalking Horse ~ detailed above.
The stalking horse ie NAMA is a being used as a political / business / bankruptcy decoy to take power. I have tried to explain this above.
To my mind it fits so well, it’s (kind of) shocking.
And yes especially in context of the Finance minister sneaking around trying to get advice on the sly, in fear of those who should be his servants.
This is where I try & describe a glimpse behind the curtain of the puppets & the puppeteer:
“Another concept is the eminence grise. This means literally ‘the gray figure’, that is to say the figure lurking in the shadows. Another phrase for this is the puppet-master. One person, the ‘horse’, dances like a puppet in the limelight on the stage, but another, the anonymous figure, is the one who is actually pulling the strings, unseen by all. The stalking horse appears to be acting for and as themselves, but there are others in the shadows. The difference is that the eminence grise or puppet-master is definitely controlling the puppet, but the stalking horse may not always be acting on the orders of, or to the benefit of, a particular – named – individual: they may be acting for a cause, in the hope that some individual will be inspired to enter the fray and take over.”
There really is no hope . David had the Minister for Finance at his house for tea and advice . Not only that as David checked out the Forbidden City he was on the phone to Lenihan .
We get NAMA with its 51% of private equity .
David , who did you think you were dealing with ?
Any great shock that they came up with NAMA ?
No wonder you were praising him as a great public speaker in your article .
See, blood-sucking Vampires are not only unafraid of garlic, they eat it raw! That was the clue, right there; in fairness to him, it was the first thing he did in that kitchen.
tim, we can’t make this stuff up,. this is dynamite.!
tim, check out my theory at 46,.. what do you reckon.?
BL left a clue to D. And as far as BL’s concerned, “well i did leave a clue and the truthseeker missed it so that’s his boo boo, he’s not such a clever charlie afterall “yada yada…!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tim, If D cop’s that BL played him on that night, if d realise’s what BL was really up too, this would reverse the game play D fell for and so revert the responsiblity back too the wicked wizard.
How ironic is it, if it’s the case. that D was ensnared in a web of intrigue and became the hanger on which BL was trying to put his NAMA HAt.
I’m very convinced this is the black magic that took place and if it’s the case, the trick is found out.
wills, I think you may be correct. Remember when DMcW “flip-flopped” when he saw what was being done with his idea?
He took some flak for it, but most here figured out that a monster had been created out of his benign idea and he has dedicated himself to fighting that monster ever since.
BL, it seems, was forced to break his deal with DMcW “I wont tell anyone, if you don’t.” This may well have been related to the rift between BL and BC that I referred to last year; BL wanted to do the right thing, I believe, but got caught under the cosh.
Now, DMcW has taken the gloves off, with the honest revelations.