September 23, 2009

Chinese takeaway is paid for with American dollars

Posted in International Economy · 189 comments ·
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The great and the good of the world are meeting in New York to discuss climate change today. This meeting is intended to clear the air before the Copenhagen Summit in December. Already the signs are that the Europeans and the Asians are annoyed with the Obama administration which, they argue, is foot dragging.

John Bruton, now the EU’s man in Washington, made a thinly veiled attack on the US Senate, suggesting that it only thinks of itself and expects the rest of the world to wait until it sorts out the US healthcare plan.

One country that is not waiting is China and it signalled a major initiative in New York yesterday. But China is not just playing the emission reduction game, the Chinese strategy is considerably more interesting and it reinforces the shift in global power between East and West.

Earlier this year, I spent a bit of time in China filming a new documentary and it is obvious that the Chinese realise the next big struggle will be the war for resources.

The Chinese understand the “peak everything” argument. They are not just worried about peak oil, they are concerned about the fact that the world has run up against the limits of its resources. Their officials were shaken by the spike in oil and food prices last year before the financial crisis hit. In comparison, they seemed to be quite unfazed by the financial crisis. They were much more concerned with the prospect of the world — and therefore China — running out of the hard material which makes the economy tick.

Speaking to some of its top officials, it was evident that they had thought about how they might secure resources and after a few hours talking to them, the strategy became clear.

Many well-placed commentators, particularly those in the financial markets, have been constantly bemused as to why the Chinese would keep lending to the Americans. China is now America’s banker; it holds close to $2 trillion of American government IOUs. It also has the world’s biggest stockpile of dollars in its reserves.

But why would this nation of smart gamblers hold the currency of a country that is busy inflating the value of that currency away?

The answer became clear to me as I walked around the desolate harbour of Port Hedland in the Pilbarra, Western Australia, a few weeks after my visit to China (the documentary is an ABC Australia/RTE co-production). The Pilbarra is the world’s largest iron ore mine. The scale of the place is mind blowing. You can almost taste the industrial economy here in the dust at the back of your throat. This is where China’s iron ore comes from and it is here that we begin the raw material journey for the steel which will end up in cars with ‘Made in China’ stamped on them.

The Chinese used to be happy buying the ore but now they want to own the mines. China realises that it has everything except resources, and in order to secure supplies in the future it must buy the mines not just the materials. So the Chinese government, via its big state-run commodity companies, is buying up mines all over the world from Brazil to Canada, Australia to Africa. And what are they using to pay for these assets? US dollars, of course.

If you talk to anyone in the commodities business, they will tell you that the Chinese are always paying “top dollar”, outbidding all others. Why would they do that?

They do this because the Chinese know the dollar will fall in value over the coming years. They look at Mr Obama’s bailouts and the associated money printing that is going on and they realise they have to lay off their exposure to American risk.

They can’t just simply stop buying American IOUs because to cut off credit to their major client would as a banker make little sense and as a manufacturer make even less sense. China is in a bind unless it can shunt American risk on to someone else.

China needs Americans to continue buying Chinese goods in order to keep the factories of the “workshop of the world” ticking over. So it can’t directly disengage from the US and start buying other currencies with its huge reserves. But nor does it want to become the NAMA of the world, overpaying for worthless assets just to keep the show on the road.

So it takes the dollars and buys real stuff with them, thereby laying off its American exposure and giving the dollars to someone else in return for mines, extraction companies and oil concessions.

For China this hits two birds with one stone.

It can reduce the financial risk of keeping America afloat and at the same time secure the resources it needs to keep its factories open. If the price of commodities goes up, China wins because at least it now owns them.

So, what it loses on the increased cost of raw materials when its factories buy them, it gains because China is also the seller.

All the time the US dollar weakens and so, for its long-term strategy, everything makes sense.

Until its own people begin to spend seriously, which could be a decade or two away, the Chinese have to keep America on life support.

At the same time, they need to secure resources. So they stitch up the rest of the world with dollars, which will be worthless against the Chinese Renminbi in a matter of decades. But in return they will own the most precious of all commodities, the raw materials of the earth, which are being depleted.

Now that’s what I call a Chinese Takeaway.


  1. roc

    Great article.

    Pity all we’ll have down the road is debt – No resources or no cash.

    There’s strategic thinking for you. :(

  2. wills

    David, your reading tea leaves when you ought to be ‘blowing the whistle’ on NAMA, in my humble viewpoint.

    China have to spend the dollars on something, anyone with an ounce of common sense will buy smart when responsible for 1 billion china men and women.

    Interesting though, china are buying up Gold all over the shop, so, this may indicate their fear on dollar demolition due to printing press bonanza is more intense than your article hint’s.

    China were duped by USA into receiving dollars as payment. China underestimated the scope and scale of skullduggery afoot with the powers at be running the anglo – saxon economy, the central bankers who did nothing to preserve the value of the dollar and in fact ensured the USA federal gov kept interest rates next to zero after 9 – 11 and so we get a dollar POnzi racket.

    China are appalled by the way USA and UK and EU banking oligarchy ditched all fidicuary responsibility. And by 2001 it was too late, their industrial goliath was up and running.

    The Chinese are slowing unwinding out of a gigantic confidence trick they found themselves lured and seduced into by the Western banking criminals.

    The West have punked China with toilet paper money on their way toward introducing a new currency once the dollar is milked and bilked for all these banking criminal syndicates can get away with.

    NAMA is merely another punk banking oligarch racketeering financial white collar smash and grab in a similar vain. THe ECB is merely printing off fresh minted euro’s in the shed loads for Eire ‘cos their all at it, Quantitative easing is the magicians name for the GREATEST BANK HEIST ever witnessed., the robbing of monies off the printing presses.., now thats something to put in the papers.

    Imagine the reaction from the general public reading in the morning paper that the gov’s and banking oligarchs actually own the printing presses and are actually stuffing as much as they can of the stuff into their pockets and socks ‘cos they can, plain ad simple. Nobody would go to work.

  3. Philip

    I have to wish the Chinese well. While not being a supporter of some of their techniques, they have managed to keep nearly 2bn people alive and get them hauled into the 21st century. It’ll take time and who knows, maybe they’ll have a better and more just system of government in the coming decades.

    One to one in dealing with Chinese here in Ireland, my comment would be, we need another few 100 thous of them. They are traders and farmers by nature, they work hard and they are decent. I’ll have more of that please.

    The one thing though that I see happening than may scupper this panglossian picture even more than “Wills’s” view above is a diminishing of the world’s resources and ciimate change. There is yet no viable solution. We cannot afford senseless divisions either within societies (due to greed) or deepening divisions between nations due to fear.

  4. Deco

    Excellent article. Very accurate.

    Meanwhile we are wasting the wealth of our societies trying to sustain corporate elites and the bankrupt real estate ponzi sector. The Chinese, plus the South Koreans, etc.. are chasing the raw physical resources that they will need for the manufacturing complexes. They aim to have the raw materials necessary to power their manufacturing sectors and be able to control the entire value chain process. America will have McJobs and burger flippers. Europe will have more bureacrats and continually rising youth unemployment. Britain will have celebrity this and celebrity that. But Asia will have the wealth creation process.

    So obvious. In the West there is an endemnic pre-occupation with creating something from nothing. The is exemplified in idiotic leaders like Gordon Brown, and Ben Bernanke. The Asians know that you can only create something from something else.

    I watched Marc Faber in Bloomberg.com and I was amazed at his projections. Basically Faber is saying that the Western governments will be bankrupt within five years. At the current rate of progress this is certain to happen in Ireland. We are continually being controlled emotionally, with loads of pointless unfounded good news stories. The classic example being the go-ahead being given to the new Ballymun retail complex. This is not wealth creation. This is distraction creation. This is the type of complex that turns Ireland into a subprime intellectual society.

    A new retail complex is opened. It avails of all sorts of lucrative tax breaks. It provides McJobs. And it keeps Upbeat Tom and his pals in the Contruction Industry Federation happy. It provides advertising revenue for the media. And RTE sent Larry Gogan or some other bore down to broadcast from there so as to create a crowd of lemmings who will shop there. And the RTE personality will plead with the lemmings to get there before the place gets knocked down (and we are not supposed to think that there is money changing hands for this sort of promotion). And the lemmings will max the credit cards buying stuff that they do not need with money that they might never get around to earning.

    roc – you are correct. No strategic thinking. Just more reassurances that now is a great time to get on the property ladder, and then get down to the new IKEA becuase 2FM are going to hold the just a minute quiz there.

    A significant proportion of our society is actively encouraged to believe that happiness comes from an indulgent amount of shopping. There are even posters in Waterford encouraging women to shop in Manchester. Retail has contaminated and driven underground any form of critique of what we are becomming as a society. Everything is to be softened in case our advertising sponsors would not approve.

    If you want to see the ridiculous nature of where the West is heded, then read James Howard Kunstler at http://kunstler.com/
    And in Ireland, what can I say, except that we have become more Californian than the Yanks themselves !!! It seems that progress is measured by our ability to turn Dublin into spread out suburban Californian unban entity, taking up lots of space,and making no sense. We have people whose parents went to great trouble to speak English better than the Eton set, and their teenagers have the grammatical ability of Ross O’Carroll Kelly. In fact it would seem that much of the Irish banking management layers have the economics proficiency of Ross ‘Carroll Kelly also. Presumably Dundalk, Waterford, or Limerick gets to be another Detroit, a post industrial hollowed out hell hole has been rife with drugs, crime and unemployment. Oh, right, nobody ever seen that coming. Well as long as members of the tax diaspora control the media we will never know any better.

    David – the article was excellent. A wake up call to the NAMA republic. If people do not wake up soon, then your children’s career path will amount to “Do you want fries with that ???”

  5. liam

    Hi David, interesting stuff. Probably a naive comment, but one wonders: If the numbers you quote are true, then China has in the last year about quadrupled its ownership of US foreign debt and represents the bulk of that debt. It seems at least possible that the Chinese are now spending dollars like mad in order to encourage dollar deflation, rather than in spite of it. The US and China need to keep the debt-trade merry-go-round working, so on the one hand the Chinese are massively pumping up the US economy and on the other helping underscore the Fed’s QE with this foreign spending. Sounds like therefore the US and China have this all worked out by themselves already, no?

    From another point of view, I seem to remember people making comments about the Japanese taking over the world in a similar fashion in the 1980s and that didn’t work out too well for them, mainly because of a bubble inflated by large trade-surpluses…

    • wills

      there are crony elites in china too and so this could be soooo true.

      • liam

        I think so Wills. I’m not entirely convinced by the idea that the Chinese are excessively concerned about peak anything, at least no more than their customers are. Of course its true that we can’t keep digging the stuff out of the ground that we need forever but China’s behaviour is I think far more driven by maintaining growth lest they start to lose control of things. Keeping the massively indebted US economy afloat is a priority matter for them (as it is for the Japanese, until recently the largest holders of US debt, as exports are the only thing keeping them alive).

  6. Deco

    It seems that the Chinese authorities, unlike Brian Lenihan, have a real grasp of that elusive concept…..
    Long Term Economic Value.

    Another of Brian Lenihan’s fortes is in reading the details. Here are (rather censored as you can imagine) details of what Dell can expect for pulling out of Limerick…
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0923/breaking33.htm

    The IT tells us there were protests from the Irish government. Did they send over Willie O’Dea to have a stab at preventing the polish government from doing what the IDA does on a regular basis ? Maybe O’Dea threatened to go on hunger strike outside Brussels. More like he engaged in PR stunts. A bit like having Barosso over to give a few Million Euro direct from Brussels to the ex-Dell workers in Limerick. Presumably this will have to go through FAS. Maybe the workers would be better off with none of this, because left to their own devices they would individually get their act toghether and create new futures. But getting reassurances from Willie O’Dea that FAS are coming to the rescue will just prevent them from doing this, and give them a non-existent sense of security. FAS still have not shaped themselves up despite the crisis. We know that a few Million Euro will not go very far in FAS. By the time all the junkets are paid for, the credit card bills are settled, and the nail bar visits are over, there will much less left for the people who really need it.

    David’s article opens up the entire question of resources. We have a society that is conditioned deliberatly to shun concepts like real value, or Lenihan’s latest hard sell “Long Term Economic Value”. In fact the real problem with an economic recession for the authorities is that people might realise what long term economic value really means. Instead we are conditioned persistently into relying on short term stunts, gimicks, PR exercises etc…

    Even if the government cannot grasp long term economic value, we should as individuals do our best to understand it, and to let others know also. This way we will undermine the stupidity that exists in the authorities.

    • wills

      Deco, i think johnallen was getting at this point, ‘undermining stupidity’. I agree entirely with this concept particularly in relation to NAMA, if the public knew the truth, the facts NAMA would be finished.

      The Irish public are deliberately been kept in the dark on NAMA. This is egregious in the extreme to exercise government along these lines in order to sneak NAMA legislation through. It sets a precedence we will not be able to reverse and we will enter into full on tyranny.

      This is why David must seize the day and SPARK the NAMA debate kindle and avert a lurch into out and out tyranny.

      What next after NAMA i ask…..?????????? the elites will be able to get away with anything.

      Mandatory swine flu vaccinations.? police state.? who know’s where this madness will end once its triggered.

      • Philip

        Leni could not raise bonds from anyone until he reassured all about his NAMA plan. It just goes to show that D4 and EU Bureaucrats (UK included) all attend the same parties. This Lisbon debate and NAMA are highly interconnected. make no mistake and I fear people are too fearful to think straight. I mean, surely when you see RyanAir shouting Yes…it’s time for a double take. No I am afraid.

  7. Resources a la Chinoise – We all came to Ireland because it had resources and we made a good life here after leaving where our forebears came from.We have lots more resources that we have not developed but we can if we partner with a ‘third party’. That is one of the strategic reasons why our island is needed in the EU .Essentially , the elite in Brussells have their cake for nothing .
    A Chinese takeaway in Ireland would pay off all our debts to all banks if you think about it.We need a new mindset and not allow ourselves become fuddled by the bureaucrats in EU.

    • Philip

      Funny thing is that about 200 yrs ago we had 8 million people on this Island. Then when we started exporting agri and the 1840s blight hit, it really was not news to anyone. Life went on for the middle classes – Irish and all. The resources argument is a bit bogus. What has happened is that societas adopted a way of living that isolated it from ample local resources. Oil for Cars and Electricity and food etc…and so on. We moved from one of the most self sustaining countries to the most unsustainable countries (in spite of 21st tech) in a matter of 200 years. What a fall!

    • liam

      In principle, of course you are right, but ‘our debts’ are no such thing, they are only so because of this NAMA foolishness.

  8. Tim

    Folks, there appears to be an absolute wealth of material here, for those who might like a little economic “digging”:

    http://economics.alltop.com/

    Oh, yeah: China scares me. Massive population, massive wealth, massive accumulation of world natural resources, massive disregard for its own people, massive disregard for human rights and massive weapons.

    What’s all of that a recipe for?

    • Philip

      Chinese disregard for it’s people? Well, now…let me see…Edenderry, the local Dole Office is on a work to rule for the last few weeks causing huge delays on dole applications. We in the west talk the talk, but deep down we have zero respect for our neighbour. Remeber that picture of Hurricane katrina – the US troops were armed protecting property while people struggled in the floods – then there’s that picture of Chinese troops lifting people out of the flood waters in their country. Ok, maybe it’s propaganda on the part of the Chinese, but make no mistake, you are in the grip of real fear mongering in the west.

    • Deco

      Philip – the real episode of selfishness in Edenderry is not the dole office bureacratic nonsense. I have information concerning what has been going on in Edenderry in the last five years and it is absolutely disgraceful. Edenderry merits a tribunal on it’s own. But all the corruption in Edenderry is swept under the carpet. No arm of the media in Ireland will comment on it,except in a manner as to describe isolated incidents. The entire scandal brings together events that officially seperate and irrelevant including the strike by the Offaly GAA footballers strike last spring (RTE were instructed to never interview the footballers), court proceedings involving a high profile Edenderry politician, and a list of rogue councillors who defected from FF before FF started to decline in the polls(loose cannons). There is a massive media blackout keeping news from Edenderry out of the national scene. It goes all the way to the top. It is seen as extermely dangerous for the entire country and a threat to the stability (of the establishment). Once again, it seems we have the establishment keeping everything under control.

      The one thing you will not see is a scandal concerning Edenderry in the newspapers next week.

      • MaxKeiser

        Very,very interesting Deco
        Can you tell us a bit more about Edenderry, Co. Offaly?

      • Deco

        Max – I can’t say anything – all I have heard are rumours…..and these have been going around for months. If you know anybody from that area….then you will be able to find out the same rumours…..

  9. Garry

    good article… been banging on about this for years, the great game is all about resources, which are getting ever more scarce.

    Worth keeping that in mind as we are consumed with NAMA… At its core, NAMA (leave out the corruption) is a big paper game with spreadsheets where money is taken from one column and put in another, and then another and another for 10 years…

    The net change is a couple of thousand property developers, and banksters emerge with their personal wealth somewhat intact while the bill is being paid by the population… There may be other net effects; probably NAMA will restore credit, but perversely only to the government, I can see the Irish banks loaning the billions to the government directly afterwards… sure its a safer bet than loaning it to some startup….

    But a side effect is how this process not only makes us poorer but stops us from focussing on the real challenges…

    Bright people will spend years arguing exactly what column some field should be in the NAMA spreadsheet; it takes over discussion; thoughts; theres opportunities to make a few quid on valuing sites etc….All pointless make work…

    Instead our energies should be on food security, energy security and climate change…

    Its ironic that NAMA will consume the discussion at the Green Party conference…. Instead of debating whether to roll out broadband, Spirit of Ireland, build a few nuclear reactors or whatever; they will be debating long term economic value; NAMA transparency and other theological concepts dreamed up by the Brians and their bankster buddies.

  10. MaxKeiser

    Hi again Lads & Ladies,

    Good to see you all again at the coal face — so to speak.

    Our government have started to build a link between Wales & Ireland to export & import electricity.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0915/breaking48.htm

    A blind man could see this entails importing nuclear energy — from the UK & Sellafield etc.

    20% of the UK’s energy is nuclear.
    http://www.niauk.org/

    I have no doubt that these facts are lost on our green “Green Party.”

    This received little media coverage. But is another important Irish Chapter in the Global big picture on resources.

    I don’t know if this is the political equivalent of introducing abortion in Ireland or if is it just a very, very Irish solution ~ to a Global problem.

    • liam

      Ireland already uses nuclear energy. Directly through the link with NI and their link to Scotland, and indirectly through many of the products and services we used daily, for example, if you drive a French car, 60% of its embodied energy is nuclear. The idea that Ireland is non-nuclear is another one of those myths that the Irish love to use to claim the moral high ground, and which needs to be taken out back and shot :)

  11. David´s article is irrefutible and worrying. If we all have Weimar Republic Deutchmarks in our wheelbarrows in America and Europe,in a few years time, China will be a bigger loser than at present.
    No more cheap flat screen TV´s etc etc for the west?
    Property will be king again , in Ireland & America when the hurricane is over.(if it ever ends)
    That will be good for NAMA.
    I think we live in times the outcome of which nobody can now predict as every action (printing money) has a reaction and a knock on affect which is not entirely predictable.
    The Chinese are very clever in turning their dollars into real estate,mines etc because land,ore,gold,oil, whatever- unlike printed currencies-God is not making any more of it!

  12. Tim

    David, Is your article hinting at Ireland’s natural resources? That government should be forced to retrieve them fot the Irish people?

    What are they?

    North Sea Oil and gas?

    The “Shell to Sea” resource that was given away by Ray Burke, for a back-hander?

    Kinsale gas?

    Irish fisheries and the EU fishing limits?

    Agriculture/ extremely fertile land?

    Irish sugarbeat?

    Zinc mines?

    Spirit of Ireland Wind energy and Hydro-electricty?

    All abandonned to corruption and Property speculation.

    Time to insist upon taking them back?

  13. Tim

    Sorry, folks, I had intended upon including our “human capitol” in that list of resources, but forgot.

    The Irish people are our greatest natural resource.

    Let us educate them as well as we possibly can in as many disciplines as we can (there are many “intelligences” – doesn’t all have to be academia), and raise our children wisely, to be confident and secure in themselves.

    Teach them to apply the hermeneutic of suspicion to everything they hear in the media or from government.

    Our people, as our greatest resource, have been brainwashed and must be “retrieved”, as well.

  14. Tim

    Folks, I have been helping to put this together with Gavin Sheridan this evening (http://www.gavinsblog.com/)

    Have a look at all of our Dail TDs; a compendium of what they do, what they used to do and some you never even heard of, though you are paying them:

    http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjmjK2zwIIBvdHVoTlc3SHVQa0s2eGJFZ1JaXzlubkE&hl=en

  15. Gary

    Great article. Your thinking on human nature and the great games we play for power and domination is always interesting, credible and entertaining . China like the US and all countries have there strengths and weaknesses. Your analysis shows China is handling there weaknesses extremely well. To decipher the US tactics for handling its own weaknesses I would need to borrow your brain. Sadly when one country gains to much superiority economically, the guns usually appear. Many published military doctrines predict the wars of the future to be about resources. World beware, its reasonable to think that the major powers will go to war at some stage.

  16. Malcolm McClure

    The world uses 20 times more iron than all the other metals combined, so we are still in the Iron Age. We are not about to run out of iron as it is the fourth most abundant element in the earth’s crust. It is a mistake to make decisions in a prolonged recession based on scare stories about natural resources. I suggested here months ago that the government should be stockpiling copper and other coinage metals that will always have practical uses, regardless of whether we detach from the euro. (Which at present seems rather unlikely.) Nobody responded to the suggestion so that NAMA alternative fell at the first fence.

    The dollar will only lose its relative value if many other major economies have resisted the temptation to print money on a similar scale. If the Chinese flooded the world with several trillion dollars they would only shoot themselves in the foot. Maybe they will buy a lot of hyped up mines with surplus dollars, but China, the biggest foreign owner of Treasuries, added $24.1 billion in July after net sales of $25.1 billion in June, raising its stake in U.S. government debt 3.1 percent to $800.5 billion.. The country’s holdings have risen 10 percent this year, after a 52 percent gain in 2008 amid the surge in demand for the safety of U.S. government debt as global credit markets froze. See: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aPmkZJsj_EXo
    The overwhelming scale of their dollar pile probably means that their best policy is to burn most of it, since it doesn’t do anyone any good in the short or long run to have the dollar devalue. Why else did they fix the renminbi exchange rate up to 2005? Buying US Treasuries is the monetary equivalent of burning it.
    In March this year the WSJ reported that China had called for the creation of a new international reserve currency to replace the US dollar. If that happened most countries would end up back in the Stone Age.

    • Garry

      Malcolm, where to start…. Rather than burn dollars, arent they better off to buy whatever they can with them?
      whether its mines, farmland, mineral rights, whatever.
      Andrew G has a fair point on water, its rapidly depleting in both India and China as limits have been passed. We may end up exporting it….or selling the rights to keep the fat scumbags in luxury in the dail.

      The big problems with alternative/renewable energy solutions are
      1) Do they work? sounds basic but a lot of them are intermittent or else have very low or even negative net energy output.
      2) Do they scale? e.g. biofuels work great for hobbist hippies but are far worse than conventional oil in terms of environmental impact and impact on global food prices as soon as we get serious about using them… (serious = making a significant dent in the 85million barrels of oil a day being burned)

      All of the new ‘green’ technologies depend on rare metals. Individually, each system uses very little but the problem is getting the supplies to scale up. It makes sense for a cash rich country to secure supplies.

      On dollar and relative value, who knows. Have a read of this it may be a german ECB guy telling the germans what they want to hear; or else it may be the ECB warning Ireland that their NAMA strategy of short term borrowing with rollovers is going to come to a sad end… http://www.ecb.int/press/key/date/2009/html/sp090915.en.html

      Finally, on the “if that happened, most countries would end up back in the tone age… ”

      I dont buy that; what would happen is a serious realignment where some countries would be better off, some worse off….

      But the sentiment reminds me of people who bought houses a few years ago, when I asked them how they would cope if interest rates rose, their attitde was “Sure the whole country would be screwed if that happens” … Read the same sentiment on NAMA where journalists are saying “Sure if property prices dont rise 10% in 10 years, we’ll have bigger problems than NAMA”

      Just because the consequences are terrifying, doesn’t mean they wont happen…..or indeed that they will happen….

      • Malcolm McClure

        Garry: Buying the future potential of a hole in the ground just returns those dollars into circulation and fosters their depreciation. Buying T-bonds returns the problem to the Obama administration.
        China’s problem is not the availability of water but its historical role as a source of conflict between those parts of China that have water and those that don’t.
        No other country is as fundamentally self sufficient as America. If they return to isolationism then it’s curtains for the rest of us.

        • Deco

          AndrewGMooney – China has made a Faustian Bargain. Fear was the driving force. Fear of becomming a post-Communist state like Russia. China will preserve itself as a nationstate-due to the size of the Han Chinese nation – and the work ethic. But authority is merely interested in self-preservation. And authority in China has learnt from other Asian neighbours – especially Taiwan and South Korea.

          Yes the negative side of the deal is bad – especially in North Eastern China. But the positive was the objective. And it is an indication of the ambition that exists in China.

          I listen to Jim Rogers because he will tell you things about the West that you would never hear in the Irish media, ever. Rogers takes the view that China is a mass of humanity that wants progress. The regime has to impress the desire of the masses. But the masses are Confucian and conservative. This means they require a lot of convincing. Progress has to be significant and real. In essence this drive is an unstoppable force. In the West this drive is much weaker. Westerners have become fat, lazy, slow thinking, obedient, dumbed down, phsyched up, misled morons. Rogers challenges Westerners to wake up to their existence and to the idiotic behaviour of those in charge in the West. Rogers visited Dublin last year – and it did not get covered by RTE, or the media. I found out from US websites (bloomberg I think) to see what actually happened.

          My encounters with Chinese people have left me with the impression that they are not weighed down with the sort of nonsense that is the source of much of the malaise that existes in the West. The Chinese are very effective. And they have zero tolerance for absurdity, stupidity, deceit or any form of nonsense. A lot of Westerners seem to only focus on these areas.

          All of which would prove Rogers correct !!!! The regime will morph into a one party state like Singapore or Taiwan. Gradually getting softer, but retaining it’s control.

  17. AndrewGMooney

    @DMcW: ‘But in return they will own the most precious of all commodities…..’

    No they won’t. Because that commodity is H2O.Water is Life. Including ‘the economy’.
    China faces potential oblivion unless and until it awakes from its’ current stupefied trance whereby it imagines the relocation of American Capitalist Manufacturing + Pollution to its’ river deltas equates to a long term Sustainable Strategic Plan. It doesn’t. No matter how many webcasts fraudulent ‘sinophiles’ like Jim Rogers broadcast from the safe air of Singapore.

    China appears to be doomed. Once you factor in water, food, air and demographics: There has been no Chinese ‘economic miracle’. None whatsoever. In exactly the same way as ‘Peak Credit’ has drawn down the wealth of future generations to be spent in shopping malls of the West: ‘Peak Water’ in China has ruined a civilizational project. No matter what absurd ‘GDP’ figures are conjured by the banksters who engineered this tragedy. “Let the drink GDP!”. And I thought Mao was as bad as it could get…..

    Forget thriving, China faces an existential threat to its’ survival that no amount of neo-colonial land agricultural grabs in Africa can magic away. Ditto the supposedly ‘wealthy’ Middle-East and it’s equally bizarre mirages of desalinated wealth that temporarily adorn the sands until they are covered, as per the Sphinx.

    ‘the dark side of China’s economic miracle, an environmental crisis that has led to a shortage of the one resource no nation can live without: water. Water has always been precious in China, a country with roughly the same amount of water as the United States but nearly five times the population. The shortage is especially acute in the arid north, where nearly half of China’s population lives on only 15 percent of its water. These accidents of history and geography made China vulnerable; a series of man-made shocks are now pushing it over the edge.’

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2008/05/china/yellow-river/larmer-text

    China didn’t just load up the truck with depreciating dollars. It loaded up on a bankrupt industrial-capitalist template that simply ignored ‘externalities’ such as water and clean air. The vast bulk of it’s supposed ‘wealth’ as $ reserves will be spent in learning this lesson and, hopefully, pulling themselves back from the brink. However, the inherent contradictions of Confucian conformity and Communist control freakery do no indicate a successful outcome. Buy as much gold as you want, embargo ‘rare earth materials’ till the Yanks re-open their mines in Cali. It won’t work. Take a few minutes to think how much water is required for every single industrial and agricultural process.

    Water is Life. The only thing the current regime in China has grapsed is ‘Peak Ponzi Capitalism’. And that from behind the facade of ‘Peak Control Freak Communism’.

    Honestly, just like NAMA: You couldn’t make this stuff up no matter how much salvia divinorum you smoked from your local head shop. Not that I’d want to encourage that kind of thing…

    • Philip

      Very well put. I think the resources issues around water and arable land are constantly ignored as there is no history of recent economic impact because of their lacking.

      David, in all your writings, you are always assuming business as usual – a rebound. Water cannot be manufactured. And this crisis will hit far more quickly than CO2 emissions.

      Oddly enough, I think China could support 2 bn with far less industrialisation…But that’s a whole otehr argument.

  18. Mark Cumisky

    A related post from the Telegraph on China’s apparent gold acquisition policy is at http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/100000821/china-bernanke-and-the-price-of-gold/ and is well worth a look.

    • adamabyss

      Good link Mark, I especially agree with one of the comments made in response to the article, by someone called ‘menchen’. It echoes what I said on this site a few months ago in response to another of David’s articles -

      “The US will never honor all of its outstanding obligations which it can never repay.

      Instead it will introduce a new currency; the “New” Dollar.

      Only residents in the US will be able to exchange their existing dollars for the newly issued “New Dollars”.

      All other “old” dollars circulating around the world (and in China’s coffers) will no longer be accepted as a means of payment.

      The US has the military power to defend and implement this “New Dollar” scheme; overnight they will wipe clean all their debts and screw all global investors who made the mistake of investing in the American dollar.

      The US can implement this New Dollar scheme because the American consumer market is critically important for global companies who will reluctantly have to accept to trade with the US and accept the “New” Dollars.

      Lesson here is to get rid as soon as possible of all dollars because they will be worth nothing ; if you dare to go and complain to the US Treasury once they launch their “New” Dollar scheme you will be arrested and dispatched to Guantanamo to be waterboarded.

      Countries like China that complain of being stuck with their trillion dollars of worthless toilet paper old dollars will be nuked if they try to collect on their debt.”

  19. ps200306

    China’s also playing a dangerous game with its own economic stimulus (rumoured to be much higher than reported). Local government is spending pretend money and running up huge bills. That can only go on so long before the piper has to be paid.

    Unrelated: thank God for that new interconnector to Wales. If we are too dumb or too sanctimonious to realise we desperately need a nuke on our own territory, at least we can buy nuclear electrons from the UK. Assuming, that is, the Brits themselves have the good sense to do a massive build-out of nukes before Putin turns off the gas tap. Not sure if the Qataris can ship enough LNG to support the alternative.

  20. werty

    its all correct till the energy wars of the 21 century , then its whos got the biggest gun that will count most.

  21. Dilly

    I received this link from someone this morning. I think the comments at the end are also quite interesting.

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/163034-baltic-dry-index-tells-the-real-economic-story

    • Malcolm McClure

      Dilly: Thanks for the link, Good reality check.

      • Deco

        MK1
        { what should we be aiming for as a society? A recession is a good time to allow people to think and change. But I doubt that they will ….. }
        Well actually those who benefit from the way a system operates have the most to lose from any system reconfiguration. Bear this in might. There is always fightback. That is the nature of “systems theory” (yes I am an IT nerd).

        If you turn on RTE or read the main Irish news, it is all about preserving ‘business as usual’ while providing emotional outlets for any sort of residual concern – so as to make sure that it is an emotional expression and nothing solid or concrete.

        But, we must continue the effort anyway, because it is a case of doing the right thing, is always more important than doing the “done” thing.

  22. MK1

    Hi David,

    Its good to take a break from our own navel-gazing of NAMA, Bord Snip, Tax report, government deficit, economic recession and look at part of the bigger global picture with China.

    China is an interesting and major “cog” in the internationalised globalised trade world. Yes, China is buying US debt, and yes, it is concerned about the supply of resources.

    But its growth is coming at a cost to many of its people. There have been food shortages, many are entrapped in slave-like conditions living within factory “villages” working 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. At least when they were in te paddy fields they had family and friends.

    And EU/US quality levels of health and pollution are not being adhered to resulting in smog, black cities, indeed “death cities” to the elderly. The Chinese miracle may be a mightmare depending on who you are.

    Its not correct to define a country on part of its attributes. China does have an internal market – any region with that many people does. Indeed, we in the “west” look on China as a country, but it is vast with several cultures and is more correct to look on it as a region such as the EU/Europe rather than a nation. We dont need a treaty proposed in Lisbon for us to be part of the European region.

    As China increases its participation in world trade, which is the key to economic growth and inter-dependence, it will become a greater “force” for us at least. China was always there, it was just that the world (our perceived world) was less globalised.

    The world has become smaller with “globalisation”. But we have debt everywhere. Governments are in debt, both local and national, businesses are in debt, consumers are in debt, the world is in debt. We have just suffered a global “hiccup” as the flow of debt/credit stalled. Governments scrambled to keep it going and it has. But we have not got rid of the virus.

    Even with increased productivity, and trade does deliver efficiencies and productivity, does extra material wealth actually deliver extra happiness? Money cant buy you love! A pig in a poke may be happier than a king in his castle.

    Which leads into our economy. How do we measure “Ireland and its people” and what should we be aiming for as a society? A recession is a good time to allow people to think and change. But I doubt that they will ….. and governments and central banks are betting on more of the same …..

    We may rant, we may huff and puff, but we havent changed thus far – no seismic shift, no eureka moment.

    MK1

  23. Land in Atlantis – We Westlanders are living in a land in the atlantic – do we ever see that in our subconsciousness .We are surrounded by sea completely and most of that is a massive Ocean that is very very deep and unexplored and ‘Full of Resources’ and we own a very large chunk of it .Lets put all our energy into this Big Opportunity and stop making a secret that it is not there .It is there and much more in fact a lot more , more than we need .Why are we afraid to get it ?Can we not swim ?Has our Mammy got something to do with it .Ruck in and jump to it and make it happen and NOW .

    • wills

      John Allen, ‘Has our mammy got something to do with it’. I think so. Seperation between child and mammy in Ireland is a cultural imperative. Ireland base points in the mammy – child seperation’ Index (let’s call it the M/C Index) are not the best, particularly in relation to our neighbour whose base points are above average.

      Cultural Ireland is back in the stone age when it comes to the M/C Index. Ireland’s culture is regressed to an infantile state where it’s values are determined by the second stage of child sexuality, the anal stage, and in some parts of Ireland the first stage, the oral stage.

      This is a cultural disaster on a post post modern world driven by knowledge. To enter into the new knowledge wealth creation paradigm coming down the pipe one must be operating in at least the oedipal phase of ones sexuality if not the genatalia stage which is actually where one’s nature ought to be in adulthood.

      So. ireland is a culture arrested in a sexual development at the ANAL stage of sexuality, so the culture will reflect this stage in all walks of life and what one will observe is a populace in perpetual relying on the matriarch in all her fecundity glory.

  24. Exactly David, you were blowing the whistle on the financial collapse, and now you seem like all the other finance “guides” to have shut up as if it has all gone away; all we have to do is find a way to get people to invest, plan, build for the future.
    I think (you’ve lost the plot) ye’re all getting a little ahead, like the recession has ended in France, Germany, Japan my foot.
    Nama has got to (go) be a clear No (biting the hand that feeds or nor) to the Government, that and No for the Lisbon Treaty. A clear message we don’t buy the promise anymore, and we want a say in what is what.

    You warned about the collapse, and tried to inform us, now we’re all informed, and all bloody well angry for justice. That has to be achieved first before you start thinking about what needs to e done, and quite frankly this Diaspora thing is beginning to wear me out, driving me a little batty, I don’t know about anyone else, but you’re ravin’ on a little too much about it. Come on, as I said first things first.
    You’re needed now.
    Fight fight fight.

  25. mcsean2163

    Agreed Paddy, the diaspora is nonsense and indeed racist. I will not hold it against someone if they are not from Ireland, obviously there is a connection with a fellow Irish man but hopefully we will stand on our merits rather than some form of genetic nepotism.

    China are doing well and taking the environment seriously but China is composed of indivual people and their government is corrupt and barbaric. I would rather live in Ireland than be part of the Tibetan oppression, fulong gon oppression, etc. The big story recently was about a woman who is facing the death penalty because she killed an official with knifve who was attacking her.

    Go on Ireland!

    • liam

      indeed. Folks like Jim Rogers blow smoke up everybody’s ass about China, the reality is that being Chinese is not much fun, especially if you are poor. Our host would have been blindfolded and up against the wall years ago if he had lived in China.

  26. G

    For those who seek to move from praise for the corporate to the real, then the following should be of interest, but it comes with a health warning, it may alter your state of mind and burst the convenient bubble………..

    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200909–.htm

    • Malcolm McClure

      G: Have a feeling that I’ve seen many of the peripatetic Mr Chomsky’s points made by contributors to this blog series before. He has been bamboozled by the global warming brigade if he thinks that is the biggest problem facing humanity. In fact it is the big lie put about by proponents of globalization to justify global government. If you think EC bureaucracy and legal edicts strip us of individual freedom, just wait until you see what happens when global government gets its act together. iPhones will report out every utterance, which will be filtered for subversive content. Miscreants will be given shock therapy.

      • liam

        This is maybe the most irresponsible and objectionable post I have yet read on these pages. Just my opinion.

        • Malcolm McClure

          I seem to remember this recent post:
          “liam says
          Well, that was a waste of time. Why is it that the Irish cannot debate the facts and instead insist on just attacking each other?”

          • liam

            Yep. I completely disagree with what you said, and I think its highly irresponsible to suggest that climate change is made up. I just think your wrong on that substantive issue, simple as that.

      • mediator

        Malcolms comments are highlighting the elephant in the room. All of the economic stuff is just a symptom of the now fastracking of the change to a new system of global control.

        • wills

          “..the now fastracking ….. new system global control”,,,,,, very very close to the nub of it.

        • liam

          I agree with Malcolm on that point, just watching for the baby in the bathwater.

        • Malcolm McClure

          Mediator: i should clarify that I do not deny that there has been some change in the climate in some places, some of which has been due to human activity. The doomsayers go far beyond this, claiming that the world will be destroyed by the end of this century unless we do something about it. They ignore the very complete records compiled by historians, archaeologists and geologists which confirm that climate change has been happening throughout time; before the industrial revolution, before the neolithic revolution, before mankind came on the scene and even before life had emerged from the ocean. They also ignore the important fact that plants continue to increase their uptake of CO2 up to a maximum at 27 degrees celsius, which is higher than the average temperature in most places where plants grow, including the rain-forest.

          Mankind has tacitly acknowledged that we cannot control famines, earthquakes, volcanoes, tornadoes or hurricanes. Yet hte proponents of global government claim that is the best way to combat climate change, which is less understood and on a far bigger scale than any of those other threats to our well being.
          Forgive me if I suggest that there is a multiplicity of self-serving agendas at play amongst those who broadcast their view that humans can control global climate change.

          The distinguishing beneficial human characteristic is our adaptability in the face of change. Instead of fighting climate change (if it continues on a detrimental path), we should learn to live with it.

          • liam

            Malcolm, I am mostly with you. Mostly.

            The G20 does not give a flying frigg about climate change, it is only interested in protecting the status quo, meaning power and capital.

            The idea that we can somehow live with all of the the consequences of climate change is myth and spin from the elite and at odds with the scientific consensus. It compels consumers to think green but ensures that the flow of money out of their pockets remains uninterrupted. Selling people a few trees to “offset” their flights to Greece, or carbon credits, emissions trading or whatever utterly useless excuses for ‘business as usual’ our leaders come up with is more of the same. It promotes the idea that we need do little and can carry on consuming at current rates indefinitely. This along with “Living with Climate Change” is the ‘soft-landing’ argument and its complete twaddle.

            So, you might ask, why do I still advocate the climate change argument if its being used for such negative purposes? Because it is universally accepted by all credible scientists, from all over the world, and most agree that if things continue as they are, the effects will be catastrophic. If the threat was not real, no problem, but it is and we need to be walking the walk. By al accounts, we have about five years in which to reverse the emissions trend if we want to avoid disaster and just live with serious but manageable change. If its reasonable to be swayed by the arguments of 46 economists, then its fair to treat the conclusions of a planet-load of scientists with the same degree of seriousness.

            The seriousness with which Governments take this problem is highlighted by the fact that it is legally possible and morally reasonable to object to planning permission for a wind turbine on the basis that its not in keeping with the character of the locale (i.e. spoils the view of Mt.Nimby). Can you imagine in 1940 objections to RAF radar masts to detect incoming Luftwaffe bombers on the same basis?

            The reality is the solutions are here, now, today, they are do-able at a fraction of what NAMA will cost and they will not result in us living without central heating or driving donkeys to work or eating our children. Unfortunately we seem to have been convinced by the media, the Government and the people who want to continue selling us crap, championed ultimately by the G20 and their pontificating that really, we should ignore this and just do as we’re told like good little citiz… sorry, I mean consumers, which in fact means doing sweet f**k-all.

  27. Chinese Noodles a la Michael O’ Leary – Prime time tonight bring together Leo the Lion and the little smelly Fish . It’s easy to guess who will win unless rte place a smoke screen to limit the impact of the carnal revenge.World Impact in interesting times .

    • Dilly

      I have been trying for a while now, to accurately describe how Ireland is governed.
      The term ‘neo feudalism’ sums it up perfectly, thank you !.

  28. wills

    Posters, Roddy Molloy X-FAS lotto winner, 1 million in taxpayers monies stuffed into his pockets down his trousers and into his socks.

    Now, roddy is not the only public funds swag bagger.

    How deep and rotten does the Great tax payers monies swindle go..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Ireland is not a functioning democracy and comparing it too china is apt. Ireland is a gombeen dictatorship, a non functioning democracy, a democratic dead parrot. Ireland is a mutant strain of neo feudalism and all must stop viewing it as a democratically run society which is mind control programming and see it for what it is and was, a dictatorially run central planned economy posing as a democracy.

    • liam

      On the plus side, there is no tradition of the Army taking power, and FF really are so inept how hard can it be to overthrow them? You have already demonstrated that your prepared to back your words up with deeds, what about everybody else? How to get them on-board? That’s a question…

  29. wills

    One of the models used by crony elites operating at the controls of constitutional democracies (in theory).

    http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385×374414

    • liam

      Things will change only when the population forces the issue. There are no leaders in the Irish political system worthy of the name. Is there somebody else out there? Surely we can do better than Ganley? (Or is he finally growing up and finally growing a pair?)

  30. wills

    Posters, taking bets Ganley will wipe the floor with o ‘ Leary and his big dumbo truth bearer blindspot, tonight on Gombeen T,v / RTE 1

  31. Water Falls – I am reminded of the Jungle Lion ( Ganley) pawing the water as he reaps the large fish jumping ‘in the ryanair’ ( O’ Leary ) to devour with satisfaction and proving what a great Leader he is .
    My bets are on Ganley too.This could be the new flight path to the Airport Terminal of Independence and Democracy.

  32. Private Request :
    As it is fitting today to celebrate the occassion of Arthur Guinness worldwide I want to mark it too to record that my great great grandfather John ( Gameskeeper ) and grandmother Sarah ( House Cook ) are both buried on the private grounds in Elveden Hall where the Guinness family now reside.

    • Dilly

      Yes, I heard this on the radio, and they are using the excuse that the world is in recession, so, they need to take steps to setup a world government to help us all !! ??.

  33. wills

    posters, did anyone notice on newsnight bbc 2 since monday this week, the use of New World Order graphic on screens backdrop every night this week for the piece on UN / obama / G20 schmoozee.

    Rumours around the G20 are going to announce some type of world government next two days.

    Rumours around G20 going to announce something to do with a new type of world currency set up.

    Plus, isn’t it rather bizzare a 13 year old indian girl given a speech at UN to world leaders about climate change,..??!!

    Also, isn’t it bizzare G20 are meeting in Pittsburg..!

    Also, has the constant newsreels on media of needles, and jabs and vaccines and testubes continuously on daytime and nightime news rather bizzarre.

    Weird.

  34. Philip

    Attention citizens of Earth…. Your planet is scheduled for demolition to make way for the hyperspace expressway….. We regret any inconvenience this may cause…. Have a nice day….”

    • Philip

      Unless we have a means of getting off the planet and walking away, we might as well enjoy what we can of the coming show.

      I was chatting to a few days ago with a guy who was retiring early. I asked why – he works in R&D in serious Hi-Tech electronics. Mega Multi National. He said that there was nothing new anymore. No breakthro’s, nadah. No real advance in anything in the last 10 years – by the way, for the technical illiteratti among you, computers you are playing with this guy had 15 years ago…seen it all..boring. He figures that all that’s happened is that the world has hit the limits in a lot of the materials, processes and methods developed over the last 50 years. Hence no innovation and hence no next boom. Figures the Chinese have yet to recognise this – they’ll snap at any mad cap idea and then cover up their failure – failures that the west ran into years ago. He says people need to get back to simpler lifestyle and fast.. Not simple stupid…simple but more sophisticated.

      • wills

        stanley kubrick detailed all this 40 years ago in Space Odyssey 2001, brilliantly,. excellent stuff philip.

      • Garry

        Brave statements Philip, they might sound just as silly as the guys who wanted to shut down the patent offices at the end of the 19′th century because everything worth inventing had already been invented…

        Limits have been hit in several areas, yet there is plenty of innovation and no matter what happens there will be plenty more….

        one problem is where to spend the money and focus on …. energy security, food security and climate change….

        but we seem determined to pay banksters gambling debts.
        .

      • liam

        Interesting. There are also those that argue that most of the advances of the 20th century occured before the dismantling of the Bretton Woods system, which brings us back further than 15 years. Its interesting to look at the Forbes list of companies, and note the industry sectors that dominate the top 20 or so, few of which are innovation lead companies.

        The records of the various patent offices globally does however tell a quite different story, even if you exclude the utterly broken US patent office. But I suppose it depends on what your measure of invention/innovation is.

        Re 15y/o computers, i seriously doubt that is true, they certainly didn’t have 32nm lithography processes 15 years ago, and one thing that Moore’s Law has meant is that costs today are tiny. Compared even to 1995 there has been a several hundred fold decrease in cost per cycle. This the availability of cheap and powerful computing has spurred a whole heap of innovation in its own right, maybe just not in his field.

        Of course our biggest problem, bigger than the banks, bigger than China, is energy.

        • Philip

          Don’t get me wrong. No one can deny the higher levels of quality and engineering that has led to better miniturisation, and better standards etc. But the sad fact is that functionality has not advanced. All people see is old stuff available at a cheaper price. 30 yrs ago many of us grey heads were a generation who witnessed the landing on the moon and fibre optics and lasers were were the new wow factor. What’s the new WOW now? It’s not there. That’s nostalgia for ya! Tech has moved from the wonder of starships in Flash Gordon to the baleful dystopian view of Atwood’s Oryx & Crake of BioTech horror.

          Good old 19th century end of history for Physics and Maths was a laugh in hindsight. But the relatively small cost of splitting the atom relative to what they are doing to uncover the Higgs boson suggests that economics might get in the way long before we get any answer.

          I do agree on the Energy issue. But there again, I think we are using too much per person to support what is a very wasteful lifestyle and a vastly more wasteful one for the wealthy elite. The world just cannot keep growing like this. Another way is needed – that’s the breakthro we desperately need.

          • liam

            I hear you Philip, but I’d still contend that breakthroughs like mapping the human genome or the LHC experiment (both dependent on a host of enabling technologies) are as profound as the moon landings. Agree re the economics: there is one big difference between science in the 21st Century and the 19th. In the time of Maxwell it was possible for one person to become broadly knowledgeable in most of the known sciences, where as in the time of Hawking, disciplines are so deep and broad that it is barely possible for one person to encompass the expertise of their own discipline and merely dabble in its fringes. The economics are driven by the enormous complexities of advancing the frontiers of science rather than a lack of skill/will etc.

            Your right, it will take a profound breakthrough to solve the energy problem, but it won’t be a scientific one, because science simply won’t save us. The solutions are already available here, now, today, but it seems that most people are convinced that either they can carry on as normal, just don’t eat so many cheeseburgers, and things will be fine, or worse, that we’re simply doomed, so let the good times roll. This attitude simply has to change. The profound breakthrough is the realisation that something needs to be done and that in fact something can be done.

  35. Ayes & Nayes – I am happy with the No team presentation made on Prime Time tonight their opposition side were clearly rattled.

  36. China and it’s human rights IS JUST MORE WEST SPINNING . I have also been there still do business with the place and my now ex girlfriend lived in accomadation provided by her boss had a mobile phone dressed well ate well drank well and worked with only two days off each month for a take home salary for her tele sales / expo assistant role a total of $35 us. Her only humbling was it was going to take her two years to save to visit England London as been of Eastern thinking she Works for her Rewards.
    Here our Elected are again telling us 4 million ( odd ) to ‘push together now’ ,….Why Should We for The Greed of 2000 of Their friends ?….If we do We ARE FOOLS , ONE AND ALL

  37. Deco

    Several issues going on the G20 that are not being reported heavily.
    i) Obama and the US Administration are furious with Gordon Brown and Peter Mandelson over the Lockerbie release, and oil deals for British interests. Brown is being sidelined in his various attempts to some sort of PR victory out of the summit. (Brown always tries to use these type events to raise the profile of British intertests, and engages in PR stunts). The Americans are having none of it. Brown’s efforts to get some sort endoresement from Obama for the voters in Britain are amounting to nothing. Expect the next British Prime Minister to never double cross the Americans. This message also applies to other countries. America knows how to handle it’s allies when it’s allies start breaking the rules and engaging in games of intrigue.
    ii) As a result of the failure of Brown to get PR from the special relationship with the Americans, Brown needs to get sort sort of schmoozing with European leaders. That won’t happen. In fact Brown’s isolation has resulted in Steinbruck in Germany making electioneering rabble rousing comments that are against the City of London.
    iii) Sarkozy is in the midst of an embarrassing legal wrangle at home with his long time internal party rival De Villepin. And it is turning nasty. Sarko has indicated that he will walk out if his demands are not taken seriously. We do not know if it is an effort to change the focus of the evening news in the French media. But the row with De Villepin will roll on. Sarko expects Germany, Netherlands etc.. to back him up.
    iv) German elections on Sunday make the German contribution less coherent. And you can expect all parties to be trying to get PR.
    v) The Chinese are trying to do a deal to buy the IMF’s 400 tons of gold. Effectively this nueters the IMF. The Chinese have the money. And they have already signalled their interest. This would have to be approved by US Congress – as the US stumped up the gold for the IMF at the end of WW2 to restablise the world.
    vi) Obama will have direct meetings with China (on a range of issues), Japan (monetary issues), and Russia (oil). The US is clear about it’s objectives. The US has to meet it’s funding shortfall concerning the stimuls programs. Some of these stimulus programs are beneficial and necessary. And some will be vote buying strategies. But Obama is focussing on countries with large current account surpluses who need to be reassured concerning their dollar surpluses.
    vii) Obama is not being hoodwinked like Bush. He builds proper functioning relationships with his peers before the meetings begin. Then he sets out objectives that are in the interests of the US and others also. This might much more than the unilateralism, and be a better realpolitik strategy.

  38. liam

    Folks, sorry for the OT post. I just read this on the blog of the otherwise normally quite filthy Maxi Cane:

    http://maxicane.com/?p=1178

    It seems relevant to a discussion on Globalisation and Ireland’s place therein.

  39. Deco

    Watched the debate last night on Prime Time. Cannot see any links in utube.
    O’Leary vs. Ganley was priceless. O’Leary provided the jibes – ” you got 20000 less votes than Dana!!!” he then said “what’s ‘all kinds of beautiful’ about that ?”. For a second it looked like O’Leary was going to start signing. He didn’t. Ganley got a dig in concerning Michael O’Leary’s motives, the RyanAir takeover of Aer Lingus, the EU Commision blocking him, and his flying around with the EU transport commisioner. O’Leary really was caught with his pants down. O’Leary failed to do his homework in comparison. They both called the government inadequate, and it was hilarious seeing them both make digs at Cowen and pals.

      • liam

        Well, that was a waste of time. Why is it that the Irish cannot debate the facts and instead insist on just attacking each other?

        • Garry

          This Apres Match spoof captures Prime Time perfecty..

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUv8iq9iPr0

          The analysis of the footie is of much higher quality than that of the politics, this is exactly what MOC would do if she was chairing Liam and Dunphy.

          Surely RTE have someone better than Miriam O’Callaghan to ask a few questions?
          She never seems to get any rational discussion between the panel, but constantly interrupts when something interesting might be going to be said, or asks a generic question…

          • liam

            Indeed. MoC is no Paxman, though her supremely confident interruption and misdirection of the ‘debate’ above suggests nobody has told her this. It might as well have been called the Mirrian O’Callaghan show, as it was clearly all about her.

            What an absolute shambles RTE is. I am afraid the truth is RTE is incapable of critical examination of its own belly fluff never mind profound political and economic issues.

          • Deco

            Liam – your analogy is fairly accurate. Though RTE can analyze all matter of irrelevent minutae, perhaps involving belly fluff also. Their main function is to direct consumer spending. In fact the same goes for the rest of the media. It is a sectoral and institutional requirement. Which is why I advocate as much opting out as possible.

            Miriam is good looking, and this works. And the female half of the population enjoy seeing her bossing the alpha males around.

            I seen the link on Dunph and Liam ‘Happy as a wet week in November’ Brady. It was hilarious.

  40. wills

    LISBON and NAMA are furthering Ireland along into the global governance plan underway and now outing itself at the G20 pittsburg get to together.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE58O1FB20090925?virtualBrandChannel=11604

    http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE58N2NB20090924

  41. Tim

    Folks, I noticed in that series of “debates” that the No side people were the only ones quoting the actual treaty and referencing actual articles; the yes side never does this.

    Also, Miriam did her usual trick last night of telling Joe Higgins not to go into detail – she is afraid of “losing” us thick viewers – so detailed debate is deliberately stifled.

    (On a personal note, I am on the farm in Bruree, Co. Limerick with no broadband, so I am trying this site on a dial-up connection for the first time ever; hope it works. Of course, if this message does not upload, none of you will know about it anyway!) Here goes……..

  42. Tim

    What We Owe Other EU Member States http://bit.ly/2xDju

  43. wills

    NEWSNIGHT BBC2′s headline………

    “THe G20 promises us a new world order but is iran the ,,,,, blah blah”

    Excuse me, i never was consented on whether i want a world government or not.

    • liam

      Alternatively, facing matters like global governance of the financial industry, or dealing with climate change by their nature are problems that require, if not global governance then certainly a global consensus. Is the G20 the right vehicle for this? That is another question. But I humbly submit that the G20 is not the problem.

      It is local politics that directly affects your life. Ireland’s problems of poor, non-transparent governance, corruption, its broken political system and the insanity of NAMA are the problems that affect the daily lives of resident citizens of Ireland and they are the ones who need to fix these problems. If individual nations have good governance, then the G20 is an opportunity not a threat, and that is very much up to us.

      The G20 could be the vehicle for change for the good of all but in so far as as there are states like Ireland, who are prepared to sell their own citizens in to slavery, then I share your suspicions.

      • wills

        liam, yep local politics are important, carrying thesis forward all good governance comes back to ones self regulation of ones impulses. As regard’s G20, i would submit, this G20 world economic council has no business assuming unto itself agendas of any distinction of any type including global warming. They do not carry a mandate so they’re a talking shop making up rule books unsanctioned by any electorate. This is tyranny the old fashioned type. Whether local poltics fails or suceeds is in of itself self contained reality. The g20 is a super elitist quango and a cover story through consolidate and centralise political and economic power further into the power elites going forward into a new economic / wealth creation paradigm. Mercantilism dressed up as an egalitarian global communitarian bordering on spiritualist movement of new age plaititudes and agenda setting zeitgeist eggheads.

        FArmleigh elitist whose ‘the coolest dude in the room’ weekender another example of this jet set cool for cats mover shaker cigar club.

        Whats so utterly twee about all this culture dude networking time wasting is these self elected guardians of the populace future are surprise surprise all, all of them, jeopardy free.

  44. jim

    @David…I’m sure when you landed at that airstrip inland from Port Hedland you were suitably impressed by the scale of this Martian Landscape,with the huge trains with countless carridges carrying ore to the Port area for loading onn to the large cargo ships.I wonder while you were walking around deliberating on the great Macro issues of the World,did you have time to observe the quality of life that comes with living and working in such an enviornment?? You see the conclusion you arrived at might not necessarily be correct. I think if you had taken the time to head back towards the airstrip and make a slight detour just up the road to a settlement called Wedgefield you would have seen something that encapsulates the OZZY sense of humour and deep practical understanding of what it takes to control this type of Industry.Just on the outskirts of this place is a rather large and imposing “yellow wheelbarrow” massive in its scale,and that is in effect what the Chinese are buying for themselves. I’m tempted at this point to introduce the old adage of putting Paddy on the mixer to go with the above,but as we have found through successive generations of hard labour building roads etc.accross the Globe,that there is an income to be derived from such endevour but very little real wealth! We could debate the plausability of the Chinese finishing up on the short side of Commodity Derivative trades,or the Chinese Governments loose Monetary policies of the present and the illusion of inflating their own Currency to match and prevent the US from inflating away their Debt and so onn but suffice to say that I’m content to believe that what the Chinese have embarked onn is their decision to do the “heavy lifting” for the rest of the World in terms of manufacturing with all its associated consequences and externality costs. It will take the ruling Party all its time to control and upgrade the infrastructure etc. to appease their 1 billion inhabitants and offer them a reasonable quality of life.China will come to realise just like the Germans and Japanese that their is a symbiotic relationship between manufacturer and consumer and that this relationship can be upended whenever the powers that be on Wall St. and in the Fed decide to “hit the reset button”.Interesting times right enough. Goodnight Ireland .Sleep well.

  45. Dryson ,Drag & Suck :
    Today the pull begins and peaks on the 4th Oct and tonight’s World Champion fight in Dublin may show it .What is weak will leave and disapear and what will win will do so with vengence and be seen to show that .Emotions will run high and time will appear to run faster and people will trip and fall in that process ..Real Time does not move fast and only those that hold it close will understand that .Slow Down this week ahead and you will feel yourself a winner .

  46. East meets West & the noodle dances to the fiddle .
    We are now beginning to watch how the inverse reverses and how Plato eats out of the hands of Confucius and vice versa Confucius does a riverdance. The power of now shows that a deep social and economic tetronic plate is shifting deep under the Atlantic and the hunger for Wisdom grows in search of direction and a new purpose.The compass is changing rapidly and soon our natural clocks will become confused and disaray.We are on the edge of the middle of a circle and in front of us a deep rugged cliff stands as we look down its might to the wild ocean and behind us the remaining circle .The standing semi circle is the after time of what was before ( yu) and has been crafted by both man and nature and soon will show that it’s sun will rise and fall on the opposites to what it did before .The full circle has disapeared and what was once a spaceship ( celtic tiger )covered with glittering quasar stones and had been crafted by man alone and represents before time as we will know it to be ( wu) .Dun Aengus is the past that tells us our future and Merrion Square is the present that reminds us of what we did wrong in the past .Only this time we are living the experience of what is now going to happen .Both locations are located on a similar lattitude and both are on the Edge of a precipice into a deep dark vortex.This is the revelation of : Da Wu Yu Code

  47. Colin_in_exile

    Site down for about 12 hours during the day which most people have free…….is there some form of pressure being applied externally or am I becoming paranoid.

    Was there a march this afternoon, no report of it on rte website. Any details? Tim? anyone?

  48. colin -in-exile – see entry no 44 on 22nd sept 2009 – a Moon Wobble event caused the site collapse

  49. Deco

    A fair amount of hype and advertising was focussed on Arthur’s Day. So as to give the lemmings plenty of encouragement for showing up for an event that did not come to the scale predicted by the hype, “official” coverage has no begun. Those who obey are always treated like children and praised for their obedience.

    Look….the streets were packed…
    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/arthurs-day-celebrations-in-dublin-1897124.html?start=11

    What concerns me more is the fact that this “positive reinforcement” which is used by maternal figures, actually works on twenty-something adults.

    And this works. Yes that is right it works. In fact it is very succefful. If finds what in marketing terminology “early adopters”. (or what in common sense terminology would be termed ‘fools who will part with their hard earned cash’. It is the cultural hallmark of an overleveraged society. In effect your life is being molded by business intersts, so that you will fit a life cycle. And the media provides the communication means to ensure that you do not stray or think outside the box. The idea being saturate the less than world wise with advertising (or propaganda if you prefer that term) and then have them spending the rest of their lives working to pay it all off. And make sure you praise them for being ‘part of the action’.

    Is such behaviour, successful control techniques, and lemming like tendencies not the mark of an intellectually subprime society ?

    We should be thinking in terms of the intellectual level of attainment of a society and not in terms of it’s consumption(delusion) attainment !!! In fact we did once, but our leadership provided us with a path along different lines.

    • Deco

      I did not manage to describe my critique of the photograph. In it we see two “revelers”. And a collection of bystanders. Some are going home from work. Others are possible tourists carrying back packs. The two revellers are stretching themselves to fill the photo. And for the Temple Bar, things seem quiet enough, considering it is pay day. It is very obvious that the (two) revellers (a polite way of saying drunken eijets) are the only one’s celebrating (sic) Arthur’s Day.

      And underneath a description that is Pravda-like “Revelers packed the Dublin streets to mark the 250th anniversary of Guinness.” nonsense. The rest of the photos have a max of 1000 revellers. Now given that the music was free (well, why would anyone in their right mind pay to endure Ronan Keating ?), and that this was pay day/salary day, in Dublin – I think that this at a minimum, some slight exxageration on behalf of the media. But hey the media is all about promotion of consumption and delusion and not about telling things as they really are. Try getting advertising revenue from Diageo, from describing the event in such as way that would deviate from the corporate interests of Diageo. It is what I would call corporate compliance. And it is eerily familiar to state compliance from the Eastern bloc in the 1980s.

    • wills

      Deco, ‘it works’ on those arrested children in grown up bodies lodged in stage 2 of their sexuality, the anal stage.

    • wills

      concur deco, NAMA is ideal to approach this way, on terms of intellectual level of attainment, ‘cos some some where will be able to ‘pinky and the brain’ out of thin air some hair brained economic theory to justify NAMA and its duck out on consequences and risk accountability.

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