Two years ago, in the book and accompanying TV series ‘The Generation Game’ I suggested that the imminent recession would be severe and would affect the generations differently.
The most exposed generation, who were termed the “Juggling Generation”, were the young workers who had just been cajoled onto the property ladder and who were largely living in commuter towns outside our major cities and urban areas. These were the people who would lose their jobs, sink under debts and be mired in negative equity.
The Irish “Baby Belt”, that huge swathe of the country where the population exploded in the boom, would slump from the vibrancy of young families and the positive dynamic of expectations of a better life to dejection and anger as the dream evaporated.
At the time, this dystopia was regarded as extreme. Many commentators dismissed these predictions as the work of an idiosyncratic crank making outlandish pronouncements in order to sell books.
Well now it is happening as forecast and the implications for politics and the nature of our society are enormous.
Things do fall apart and sometimes we need to “think the unthinkable”. A familiarity with the rudiments of economics might help too.
If a generation with young families is abandoned in the suburbs with no jobs and negative equity, they face three choices. First, they can emigrate if they can face the upheaval and find a place that might accept them. Second, they can stay here and snarl on the dole, possibly waiting for a political messiah to deliver them out of this darkness.
Third, they can rely on themselves, take things by the scruff of the neck and try to work their way out.
Over the coming years, I hope that they will do the latter.
There are many reasons to be optimistic but it will take time to (a) get over the shock and (b) figure out what to do next.
As you read this, all over the country there are people in desperation who don’t know what to do next or where to turn. As unemployment rises, these private kitchen crises will become more widespread.
The ramifications in terms of family breakdown, psychological problems and social chaos are self-evident. Last weekend, I listened to a GP from one such town, Gorey in Wexford, which has seen its population rocket since 2000.
He explained that the recession was not prompting a surge in attendance of the poor and the old, who are the “normal” visitors to his clinic.
He spoke of young fathers in their 30s, men who had never been to a doctor before, arriving into the clinic depressed, anxious and in need of counselling. They simply can’t cope.
In order to see what’s happening and where, let’s take a drive out from the centre of any of our cities with their cafes, shops, bars, immigrants, students, young workers and foreigners who live in the thousands of apartments built over the past 10 years.
There are still some old inner city residents, but the big demographic change has been the influx of young people, born in the suburbs, back into town swapping the box room in Mammy’s for the box room in town. They are mainly renting, young and single. The recession is biting here but in different ways.
Let’s continue out past the inner suburbs, the original 1940s and 1950s council estates. These houses are built to last and these areas have seen a huge surge in wealth and stability since the 1980s. Gone are the Hiace vans on blocks in gardens, Hallowe’en bonfires and chippers; these have been replaced by black SUVs, holiday homes in Alicante, steady incomes and careers.
If we drive on to the older professional suburbs, we see nothing but red-brick solidity. These people, the ultimate insiders in the Irish parlour game, have done very well indeed. You can see it in their bodies. They weigh less than they did at the start of the boom. Some are over-extended in two-bit syndicates that old college mates in red cords duped them into. As a result, there will be spectacular crashes, which will dominate their dinner party gossip, but ultimately they’ll be ok. They always are. At worst they will become poor versions of the European middle class.
Let’s keeping driving over the ring road, past the toll bridges and the Giraffe Early Learning Centre and creche, past the Woodies DIY, Borders and the chrome and glass VW sales garage. Keep to the left beyond the TK Maxx, Curries and Tescos, the Indian takeaway and the Costa coffee shop. Keep going, you’re nearly here.
Take a right. Into the new estate — yes that’s the one, Knightsbridge Wood. You are in the home of the Jugglers. Here is the carnage. These houses, built in 2003, are all in negative equity. Unemployment is rising rapidly. Unemployment has tripled in counties Kildare, Meath and Laois since ‘The Generation Game’ was published. This is where we are going to see the greatest social problems in the coming years and expect to see the same pattern in the areas surrounding Cork, Galway and Limerick.
(If you want to see the hard numbers underlying this article check ronanlyons.wordpress.com or visit www.irisheconomy.ie)
At the moment this is a creeping geographical phenomenon but it will soon become the single biggest issue in Irish politics.
The Jugglers are Ireland’s outsiders — yet they are our brothers and sisters, our sons and daughters, our cousins, nieces, and nephews. They have been hung out to dry and as the most potentially productive generation in the country, if they don’t recover, we won’t recover.









These are the crowd of gluttonous bank robbing shysters whom the gov are hiring for advice on how to organise NAMA.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E5DD143EF93BA3575BC0A96E9C8B63
wills, from your link:
“There is a clawback provision in the Sarbanes-Oxley Act under Section 304. This generally requires chief executive officers and chief financial officers to disgorge incentive-based compensation and any profits from stock sales within the 12-month period after the public release of financial information if there is a restatement because of material noncompliance, due to misconduct, with financial reporting requirements under the federal securities laws.
This clause has limited applicability — misconduct is undefined, and whether it must be the chief executive’s or the chief financial officer’s is uncertain. It also applies only in the circumstances of a financial misstatement.”
“Financila misstatement” ………………….??? like this:
“Over my dead body, will AIB need to be recapitalised by the government”.
………… I wonder if such a claw-back clause applies to the bankers in Ireland who made such financial statements?
tim: get a load of this…..
at this link (http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0522/presswatch.html) gov have announced setting up ‘special purpose vehicle’ system to sort out the loans.
this link(http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spv.asp) defines what a SPV is and guess what it is….
SVP = A SPECIAL DERIVATIVES PRODUCT COMPANY
wills, see my reply on the derivatives problem in Irish banking here:
21 May 2009 12:30 am
Housing loans could never require all the magical spells they are conjuring up to throw at the problem over the next twenty years or more.
Its GOTTO be the “liabilities are assets” derivatives bubble of CDSs and CDOs.
Gotta be!
ABSOLUTELY
Tim: thks for that info. Now to apply the law to put banking criminal syndicate into jail.
Links here for my post above:
http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0522/presswatch.html
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spv.asp
Good man Tim. Yeah that is interesting. In the interests of meeting the needs of international investors, Lenihan will have to do something to show we have standards operating in this area.
Seanie Fitz, Bowler, Boucher, Sheehy, Gleeson, David Drumm, Fergus Murphy, Fingers and all their numerous cronies. Questions to answer. Concerning the loan from Permo to Anglo. Concerning the loan to Seanie Fitz and the other directors in Anglo. Concerning AIB manipulating it’s own share price. Concerning AIB/BoI buying government bonds in another Ponzi scheme.
Maybe Thornton Hall will be needed afterall :)
Let’s not foget the fact that the banks had a policy of telling their managers to tell their customers to invest in bank shares.
I mean this must surely constitute bad advice. And I have just remembered – the gang of ten who were pressured into buying Anglo Shares.
What about Patrick Neary and the senior management in the IFRSA. They were knowing parties to a lot of the trickery. They are liable also, because they never informed the general public.
Deco, they (mis) informed the general public that “The fundamentals of Irish Banking are sound”.
Financial misstatement #2
….. hey, let’s dig up a few more?
Soft landing?………………….
Furry, we need the names of the people who said we would have the “soft landing”; then it certainly qualifies as a financial misstatement.
The money the gov will use to buy toxic assets through NAMA from the bankrupt comm banks is in fact another means through which the private banks will get their thieving hands on monies to be used for re-capitalizing and the taxpayer will be left with nothing but properties sold to property developers in the first place via credit invented out of thin air….!!!!
Conclusion: Banks get real monies back for assets banks never gave real monies for in the first place.
Lets see now.
The banks tell the Gov’t to guarantee them
The banks get money from the Gov’t
The banks borrow money from the ECB
The Gov’t borrows money from the banks
The Gov’t pays back bonds on time
The ECB says the Gov’t is doing well
The Gov’t gets money from the ECB
Repeat first verse in higher key.
This economics stuff is dead simple.
BTW. This mightn’t be an elephant but it will be a small horse in the room. With retail sales down, who’s going to stump up the commercial rents from the Autumn.
Meredith Whitney is convinced thats the next problem round the corner in the US.
We are in a period of significant deleveraging. We’ve had debt growing unsustainably quickly for 15 – 35 years (depending who you talk to).
Every time we’ve had a problem, the politicians and central banks have done the same thing, they’ve made borrowing easier and cheaper, and they’re trying it again: Historically low interest rates, frantic efforts to get interbank lending going, equally frantic efforts to get mortgage lending going, and a herculean effort to convince us that all is pretty much OK so we’ll all rush out and borrow again.
If we fail to return retail spending to something approaching 2006 levels, then, quite clearly, the retail sector will shrink to fit our new level of spending. Fewer shops, fewer shop jobs, and smaller tax receipts.
It is faintly possible that the day of reckoning can be put off one more time, by transferring a very big chunk of debt onto future taxpayers, and thus freeing up employers (state and private) and consumers, to go on another borrowing and spending binge.
In the US (and UK, The Republic, and Spain), all that borrowing failed to create a sustainable economy last time, and the time before, and the time before that, so there’s not much chance of it working this time. All this stimulus money will achieve is to give us one last blast. I hope we enjoy it.
Stephen,
Extending that thought to people not playing the game and borrowing more which is what happened in the UK after the ’89-’93 recession. (people took a long time to start really availing of credit either because they weren’t allowed or got burnt).
From http://www.taxcalc.eu/
Lets take a notional average married couple, 1.8 kids, no benefits.
Weekly take home pay. (Married)
Selected Tax year is 2009 #2: ‘Emergency’ Apr-09
Gross Take Home Pay = € 979.81
Tax = € 69.02
Take Home Pay after Tax = € 910.79
Less PRSI = € 50.23
Less Spouse PRSI = € 0.00
Net take home pay = € 860.56
So 860 x say 2.5 million people equals just over 2bn a week disposable income. Real money.Real economy. The rest is mickey mouse accounting to suit the big lads.
Furrylugs, I pay about double that amount of tax. What % did you use?
Try the online calculator Tim. I took the primary wage at 37k gross and the secondary at 15k gross.
Thanks Furrylugs………. more caffeine for me, I think!
Yeah…it might be unsustainable economics….but economic theory and the interest of the common people never mattered to the opportunists in the political establishments of the four countries mentioned (US, UK, ESP, IRL).
My friend has a unit in a well known shopping centre on South William Street in Dublin. There is currently talk of the whole centre closing down if things continue as they are.
When England catches a cold Dilly…………………………
http://www.independent.ie/business/european/rents-crashing-in-london-to-1991-prices-1740606.html
Furrylugs, Garry, sorry about the mix-up between levies and compensation caps last night – just spotted it now after reading Garry’s comment…….
Ooops, indeed!
Mind you, Garry, your comment was class, and worth the mistake, just to see it!
Furrylugs
I pressed ‘reply’, but failed to, for which I apologise.
What is astonishing about commentators such as Meredith Whitney, is that they have to fight their corner when making these sorts of predictions.
These days are not a ‘Black Swan’, nor are they ‘Once in a generation’ (as we would understand it). They suggest that no blame can be apportioned, which in turn means that we need change nothing at all (except mend the broken bits), to return to the sunny uplands of yesteryear.
Were you a banker, would you put up your hand and say ‘Good grief, looks like it was our fault, let’s have a lot of tougher regulations that will cause my total pay to drop by 90%’?
We know what caused this: Weak and dishonest government, and Private Walker, from Dad’s Army, getting Captain Mainwaring’s job.
“What is astonishing about commentators such as Meredith Whitney, is that they have to fight their corner when making these sorts of predictions.”
Simple answer Stephen-
http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/documents/SATC%20manifesto%20public.pdf
So we have the UK’s debt at 100%GDP and S&P are making rumblings. The only reason that sterling did not fall thro’ the floor was the Dollar was faster. You could not make this sh1t up if you tried.
Furry’s poem above is excellent. Is there a lyric we can get to fit it, becasue it needs drilling into people’s psyches. It resembles an instruction loop in a computer program.
Tim, there is a perception problem on PS pay. It is one of those hygiene issues that gets people’s backs up (if they are in the insecure private sector) and as a result dulls the argument for increased and effective PS here. PS need management and there needs to be more firings (accountability). As they say….that dog just dont hunt!
And one cannot dismiss the Ryanairs etc simply becasue of the way they seem to attack labour rights. Perception plays a role here too. They are surviving and making headway by remaining firm in their attitude about what causes a business to be successful.
Toughness and an attitude of unwavering responsibility by all key sponsors on what constitutes a good solid competitive environment is something we severely lack in the PS and many of the parties that work with it – cue IBEC/ Unions etc. The mental breath is simply not there to handle it.
So, in a way, I am rather upbeat. This tsunami is coming so fast that it will obliterate anyone deluded enough to believe they can survive with their old ways intact.
Hang in there jugglers and those who think there is nothing beyond 40 or 50 or 60…this Black Swan song has not yet finished and it looks like we need to make sure that A45 is reviewed in the new dawn that is quickly approaching.
The mind boggles……. for up to date info on NAMA goto link and have one’s mind boggled.
1: SPV’s are been set up by the banks who are offloading the bad debts.
2: SPV system recommended by Merrill lynch (who are a proven failed entity in relation to spv’s)
3: SPV’s are in actuality a special derivatives product company.
So one can only but deduce that we are now dealing with CDO’s. So the real truth is been drip fed out into the public domain through bamboozling technocratic mumbo jumbo.
4: The banks are now charging NAMA for NAMA coming to save their ass……???????!!!!!
5:What is the difference between a ‘development loan’ and ‘associated borrowings secured on investment properties’, anyone! anyone!…
6:Where is the Irish gov going to get 50 billion in monies to but faulty loans on massively over inflated priced assets.
7:The ‘indonesian gov did this too’,,, so we are now comparing our banking to Indonesia capital banama rep.
8: Gov is going to ‘value the toxic loans by applying a range of discounts according to the EU commissions guidelines on impaired assets’……………………….. Can i suggest,, why not but it at the proper market price of the property, but hold on, maybe they are now talking about something else in relation to toxic loans i.e CDO’s and the property element is been rubbed out…????
goto this link and have mind boggled
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2009/0522/1224247112296.html
So NAMA will operate as a hedge fund over 15 years?
We’d need MK1 to comment on that scenario.
that is No.9 furrylugs.
I am No. 9.
I am a free man???
> So NAMA will operate as a hedge fund over 15 years?
No, not quite like a hedge fund, where they normally would take on more assets and sell assets across all investment classes as the see fit and according to risk ‘aggression’ settings, gains to date (per annum), etc. NAMA will not be a ‘player’ in the market but will be more like an amateur sitting in the corner with assets that it overpaid for and which it will have difficult off-loading.
But like Somers, I have no idea how its going to pan out. What I do know is that there is potential for major downside (in real terms) for the NAMA owners (ie: us) and little chance of major upside (in real terms). Its a bailout ….. no matter how its phrased or dressed up.
“Thats another fine mess you’ve gotten me into ……”
Btw, any person who is against NAMA and blames the government for making our credit bubble situation here much worse than it should be should reach into their conscience when they vote. That is the only way of expressing an opinion in the next week or so …..
so, vote wisely!
MK1
Here is a gaffe, that you will never see in The Irish Times….There is a policy in the IT of trying to make a bunch of incompetent clowns called the Irish Labour Party in a sympathetic light, that is never given to any other party. A bit like the IT’s bank coverage before 2007. And then the ILP reveal their level of knowledge about what they are talking about. A bit of an inconsistency, considering that Gilmore spends the entire time pointing out the faults of FF…..Does my “angry man act” look big in this ?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/elections/dempsey-accuses-gilmore-of-damaging-gaffe-on-banks-1746388.html
It is bad, when Noel Dempsey knows more than you. Especially, if the area concerned is in banking or economics where Dempsey is fairly clueless. Now, it is revealed that Gilmore is even more clueless than Dempsey…..But Tintan want’s Gilmore to be in control…even in coalition with Dempsey if the results require this as being the route to be taken.
I too am a critic of NAMA. But on the basis that it might not work, or fears of the cost of it. Not based on opportunism – like Gilmore. Incidentally he also claimed that the problem with the economy was lack of confidence. Another pretenscious muppet in the Dail. Only the media is careful about letting you know. Incidentally Gilmore does not seem to have respnded to the remark. A case of him hoping that nobody would notice.
Gilmore always was an opportunist. It is just that his opportunism was better covered up than for the others….in media terms…it was downplayed. Stuff that the public is not supposed to think about. But we should be informed of the cluelessness of all candidates. Not just those that certain media players regard regard as competition to their preferences.
I actually like Gilmour. For only one reason. He’s doing what EK should be doing.
I have never seen a so called democracy where the opposition have had so many chances to take over the reins than here in the last 3 years.
P**s or get off the pot chaps.
There are a number of extraordinarily insightful comments on this thread making the connection between the ‘heart of darkness’ at the centre of the Catholic Church and the current financial apocalypse. Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
It occurs to me that there will be a ‘tipping point’ whereby the whole pyramid of lies, deceit and betrayal collapses. Here in Britain, it may be the issue of MP’s expenses. In Ireland it may be the ‘transfer’ of liability for 90% of compensation costs for Abuse Survivors from the Church to the State, ie: The Irish taxpayer.
I remember serving as an altar boy at The Holy Family Church in the ‘Little Ireland’ that was Small Heath and Sparkhill in the 1960s and 70s. I remember how my Mother and Father, like so many others, would always ensure there was money for the collection plate, no matter what else had to be foregone. Nothing has changed.
The deference and credulous trust has merely switched from obesience to the Church to the Banksters. They were trusted to lead Ireland into a new future. Trust misplaced. It now appears the taxpayers of Ireland are required to put their coins and notes into the collection plate again. To bail out both the Banks and the Catholic Church so they can keep up with the outlay for Armani suits and ermine robes, etc.
Betrayal? Yes, but I’d counsel that Irish people not to fixate on this situation as uniquely or emblematically ‘Irish’. Because it isn’t:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/7264000.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/21/catholic-leader-child-abuse-ireland
Archbishop Vincent Nicholls is, perhaps, the most deluded man in the world. He even mananged to elicit a rebuke from the Catholic hierarchy in Ireland, which is some achievement.
It deeply saddens me to read that unemployment has tripled in Laois. When my parents left that county in the 50s they had nothing. Nothing. Except heartbreak and hope as they took the night boat to a new life in Birmingham. But at least they didn’t have mortgage arrears, credit card debts, car loans, and ‘lifestyle affiliations‘. My message to any potentially marooned ‘Mooney’ or ‘Dooley’ reading this in Laois is as follows:
You don’t owe your country anything more than it owes you reciprocally. That includes owing you the right to ‘rip it up and start again’. The right not to be interned in a tomb of debt as a result of your youthful ’animal spirits’. If ’they’ refuse and try to manacle you, if they won’t let you and your family, ‘take things by the scruff of the neck and try to work a way out’: It’s either fight or flight.
If you have the option to stay and fight such injustice, then that is your duty, not to ‘their’ Ireland, but to the healed Ireland that will emerge from this catastrophe for future generations.
However, if the bailiffs with bad breath turn up and there’s no way out: Just get your Grandfather’s antique suitcase down from on top of the wardrobe where it’s been strategically placed as an ornament. Put a change of clothes and a toothbrush in. And leave. Not another cent in tax. Or fines from the banks. Away with that nonsense!
PS: Happy 50th Birthday Morrissey!
“Irish Blood, English Heart, this I’m made of. There is no one on Earth I’m afraid of. And I will die with both of my hands untied. I’ve been dreaming of a time when the English are sick to death of Labour. And Tory. And spit upon the name: Oliver Cromwell”
PPS: Say a prayer, light a candle for Frank McCourt.
superb…
Hopefully these thoughts will be explored further and with a wider audience with the weekend papers and media here…
AGM – Welcome Back. I think it is important for any society that it reforms it’s relationship with authority o a regular basis. So as to keep the society free and full of natural human goodness. Unfortunately, the power culture in society tends to compromise this greatly.
For a long time the term “The Hierarchy” or “Maynooth” was used to describe how one institution held a massive tight grip on Irish society. There was a complete abscence of accountability. There were wholescale systemic coverups. There were lies. And the peasants were told not to ask too many questions. If you objected, then there was evidently something wrong with you. It had very little, if anything at all to do with Jesus of Nazareth, or Francis of Assisi or anything like that. The hidden history is still creeping up.
Fast forward to contemporary Ireland. The same love of power is prevalent. New hierarchies. New forms of control and obedience. And as before if you don’t likeit then you are some sort of upstart or odd-end. It is sickening. The religion was changed, but the love of power just morphed into something new. The institutional mentality is still prevalent, and sits like an octopus squeezing the life out of the people. We know have the “D4 Bankers”, “the state”, “the lobby groups”, the vested interests, IBEC, ICTU, Tesco, RTE, etc…. All trying to find a way to devise structures to attain positions of power over the people, and squeeze one form of economic rent or another from the people. And the political parties only differ in respect to their promises. All of which are rubbish.
And in the midst of the transition from one institutional behemoth to another, we have inept politicians letting down the taxpayer once again. The state is particularly inept at bringing accountability to other institutions in society, or indeed it’s own institutions.
We need to change our view of authority. The old saying goes “fire is a bad master, and a good servant”. The same applies to authority. We need to have authority serving the people, not the people serving authority.
Bear in mind that everytime the people stand up and be counted – there is a ton of condescending careerist lining up to berate the people for having the nerve to question authority. What happens if authority itself becomes an unworkable entity – by the sheer weight of dissent and non-compliance ???
Deco: Whether or not we accept all the mythology that Christianity has accumulated over the millenia, most people would accept that the suspension of disbelief plays an important role in all our lives. Otherwise we should be unable to enjoy novels, theatre, cinema and the other arts. It is a vital human faculty that is inculcated from childhood by participation in public worship. Unfortunately, as you point out, it has adopted the structures and practises of an institutional mentality. Conformity is valued above spontaneity even down to whether or not one should shake hands at mass or use contraceptives.
This conformity is encouraged by the political parties too, in exchange for the promise of education and health care in this life rather than the promise of salvation in the next. The politicians are supported by the President in place of the Pope, by the legal establishment in place of the Curia, by Vat instead of the Vatican, by Taxes instead of the collection box. All because in both cases Big Government is considered to be the sine qua non.
The question we need to ask is whether as members of the European community we need a national government, at all, to intercede between the County Council and Brussels. As has been frequently pointed out here most of our national politicians are nothing more than jumped up county councillors, with hardly a Statesman amongst them since Conor Cruise O’Brien.
Whoa. Schtop. Conor Cruise O’Brien slash Kevin Myers.
If they’re right, just hand over the keys.
But that would be an insult to no less a person than me.
We’re well fit to run our own affairs but we’re guilty of being asleep at the wheel. We allowed this rancid fat to rise to the top and now’s the time to make a “spake”.
One message as a start will come from the Locals. If not, roll on CCOB and KM.
Oh yeah.
“Lance the Boil” to quote an honourable man.
F
Malcolm. Good to see that somebody is trying to expand on the points started by Andrew. I personally am not concerned about telling people what to do with their belief system. That is their own business. What might be nonsense to one man is serious business to another.
CCOB himself had a tendency to delusion. When he was Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, in the 1970s, the MD of Digital in Galway had to visit his office and annoy him directly to get the telephone into the then largest plant in Galway. At the end of the conversation he still had to wait two weeks for progress. I am reluctant to classify CCOB as a statesman. His episode as a Unionist politician resulted in him becoming an embarrasment to himself. He became more unionist than the unionists themselves – and they could never really understand what his agenda was. He postured like some sort of aristocrat come intellectual. These were his roles. And he drifted from one to the other role all his life. That said, he did make some good comments on CJH, and other contemporaries of the era.
I agree with you concerning “suspension of disbelief”. But I would use the term “healthy scepticism”. I think that it captures the concept really well. Basically it is healthy to sceptical, rather than obedient. Not obsessed with scepticism. But everyone needs to have a level of scepticism that makes sure that common sense is applied. Such scepticism is necessary. It prevents us making really stupid mistakes-like believing in the economic forecasts of Dan McLaughlin, or the nonsense of McAleese, the bread and circuses of the political parties, the pride concept that resulted in so much stupidity in this countr, or the persistent efforts of the media to make sure we never know what is going on.
Yes, we need a healthy level of scepticism. Too much is unhealthy. And as we have seen in Irish History, too little scepticism is also very dangerous. There are some things we can actually believe in. And everybody believes in some framework for dealing with his condition. But as long as each individual has sufficient scepticism, and the humility to apply the scepticism to his own models of thinking, then we have a healty scepticism.
The lack of healthy sceptical thinking results in people who are on a mission to drive other people to their will, often for the benefit of some third party who is in authority, or who wants to get power. This is very unhealthy. And it is still happening to Ireland. This is something that needs to be addressed.
Tá amhras orm.
Deco, see Jurgen Habermas on “The Hermeneutic of Suspicion”.
stmarytx.academia.edu/documents/0009/5334/hermeneutics.doc
It is right-up-your-street, if I dare say.
Folks, SPVs were made famous by ENRON.
Why does anyone think they will work here? (Not a rhetorical question; I really do not understand this!)
Why?
Deco, Malcolm,. i see the ‘suspension of disbelief’ as one of the great threats too the wasters who’ve infiltrated our political system. ‘Suspension of disbelief’ is a childlike quality which is a key element to the practicing of faith. Faith is central to keep upon the path of truth. You destroy ‘suspension of disbelief’ and one’s link to truth is cut.
This crony politico contagion is a manifestation of a struggle at play deep within the mind-body of us all. A struggle between sacred love and profane love. And presently in Ireland the proponents of profane love are indeed in control in politics, economics and education and the catholic church.
Wills: You get it. However, there is a time and place for the ‘suspension of disbelief’. Trouble is that our system of government tries to hoodwink us by encouraging us into that ‘childish’ state of mind when practical questions are raised. Listen to politicians answers. They invariably evade the point of the question and lead us to bite a red herring of their own rehearsed choosing. If the questioner persists, they promise to write with the answer later. Then they can employ their second line of defense, the spin doctor. If that is unsuccessful, they plead legal constraints or commercial confidentiality or State Secrets, or use D notices or professional threats. Anything to maintain the mystery of how decisions are made on the basis of other than demonstrable facts.
The only solution to this state of affairs is openness and transparency. The Right to Know.
Defense of the Realm???
Malcolm – yeah you are right when you mention the “childish’ state of mind. The other side of that is the term patronising. And when we are being patronised, or being treated like children, then a power effort is underway to take something from us. FF and the ILP are at it, at the moment. Especially with their antics in the Dail. Great theatre, but that is not what we are paying them to do. FG have temporarily stopped – but
The media do it all of the time.
Yeah – that is it – when being patronised, it is necessary to be sceptical.
I have just realised the Dail has become a “Punch and Judy Show”. This is exactly what it happening. The media depict the entire thing as this also. It is like as if they need a show to get people to “support our advertising sponsors”.
It is like as if we are a nation with few grown-ups. It is like as if we are in some sort of trance – caught up in the drama.
malcolm: ‘……there is a time and a place for the suspension of disbelief’.
There surely is.
Malcolm & Wills thank you for helping me inwardly articulate what seems to wrong every time we start thinking straight. Might this be a problem with all master slave relationships?
You see this in many workplaces…the oily shrug off response, then the belittlling corp. spin followed by suggestions that you either fit in of eff off.
I blame the GAA, and Man U and Beckham! – people are keeping their eye on the wrong ball – so to speak. The games and eastenders are becoming the new opium.
Frozen Moments – Again and Again East Enders and Coronation Street takes the Nation over ………..little britains have we become ?
Not at all John.
Just Cupid Little Stunts.
Pheasant pluckers.
John Allen. This correct. We are becomming a society like Wales or Northern England. Proud. Hopeless. Bankrupt. Dependent. Voting for useless politicians who never solve anything. Lacking innovation. Decrepid. Rampant with crime and substance abuse. Talking up our significance. But with fundamental problems that will never be solved. A land of no energy and lost dynamism – with the young people gone away, and a massive proportion of the population on welfare. And never able to get off it.
Our dream of independence, and of self-sustainability is trickling away.
And it all started with the Man United Taoiseach. Elementary really.
Before we went down the path to ruin, we took intellectual decisions that made the path to ruin inescapeable. We became a culture that was steadily more regional British. Is it any wonder, when Irish people go to Europe they get confused for regional Brits !!! Our creativity and originality have been lost in a bland world of TV3 soaps and English retail therapy sojourns.
We need real therapy now, not the expensive, reckless substitute – which is only designed to move money and not to fix anything.
Deco, not so! (though I appreciate that you may be “teaching” here, by delivering a severe cautionary note).
We are here; we are awake. Many others are awakening. I was in my 30′s before I began to wake up – and I am not fully there yet.
Everyone needs to meet their own “Morpheus” and choose the red or the blue pill and either wake up and act or stay asleep and do nothing.
This site is and will continue to be the Morpheus for many people. Be not despondent.
Let’s keep at it.
Malcolm, it is the structures and practices of an institutional mentality that is the problem alright. The hierarchical structure of it all sustains the false perception that the higher the rank in the Church, the more subservient the masses should be towards them.
This is topsy-turvy.
The God-made-man who instituted Christianity demonstrated what should be done: he washed the feet of the twelve that they might know how they should serve others. The higher the rank, the more subservient to others the members of the hierarchy should be.
Greed for power and status have turned this on its head for many of the leaders AND followers in the churches.
What a pity.
We have lost our way?????????????????
We have lost THE way.
The Way – We have not lost the way .We are on the path least travelled …..just keep going .It’s education and fills the time .
John ALLEN, you have reminded me of Robert Frost’s poem, “The Road Not Taken”, in which he exposes the human propensity for retrospectively concocting reasons for our choices and decisions in order to justify them.
TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Stanzas 2 and 3 illustrate the self-delusion and sound rather similar to much of the political rhetoric we hear.
First step – we need to get the 1000 Euro charge to access documents pertaining to the state sector, to be eliminated. It is acting as a deterent to accountable behaviour from the various arms of the state sector.
From
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/regulator-knew-of-ilp-loan-but-did-not-query-it-1649822.html
Willie McAteer had informed then Financial Regulator chief Patrick Neary last September that the bank would be “managing” its balance sheet. It was also alleged yesterday that a member of staff at Anglo Irish Bank informed the Financial Regulator’s office that it had been “trying to manipulate” its balance sheet prior to its financial year-end last September.
Knowledge
The Financial Regulator said yesterday that there is “no question” of anyone in its office having any prior knowledge of this “nor is there any question of the Financial Regulator giving endorsement of this and to suggest a junior official would have the authority to approve or condone anything of this sort is completely incorrect”.
= “Financial misstatement” #3
I think it was “Fair play to you, Willie”, that Patrick Neary said; and now the gardai have the recording of the conversation.
Now.
Since the “Directive Principles of Social Policy” namely Article 45 of the Constitution , Bunreacht Na h-Éireann, not cognisable by any Court, are intended for the general guidance of the Oireachtas and that the application of those Principles shall be in the care of the Oireachtas exclusively and given that paragraph 4 subsection 2 states ” The State shall endeavour to ensure that the strength an health of workers, men and women, and the tender age of children shall not be abused and that citizens shall not be forced by economic necessity to enter avocations unsuited to their sex, age or strength”-
I argue that;
(1) The protection of children is without the Law and solely in the hands of the Oireachtas.
(2)The State has failed to endeavour to ensure that the tender age of children shall not be abused
(3)
(3) A45 (4)(2)
That the tender age of children was abused whilst in the care of the State or agencies engaged by the State or agencies directed by the State.
The application of A45 cannot be challenged by Law. The elected members of the Oireachtas hold total sway in the direction of moral social policy.
So says my constitutional lawyer buddy.
Just chippin’away boss………………………….
“the application of those Principles shall be in the care of the Oireachtas exclusively”
Fill yer boots Harney.
Ooooooh! You found a constitutional lawyer buddy??!!
Been waiting to hear what that person would say……….
Q. Isn’t neglect a listed form of abuse according to the ISPCC?
Q. Would it constitute neglect to appoint a Minister of Government known to have been suffering from early onset of Alseimers’ Disease to a key ministry with responsibility for the care of children in state institutions?
Q. Would it constitute neglect to allow/encourage that suffering individual to negotiate a settlement with those representing the perpetrators of direct physical and sexual abuse of the children in the state institutions?
And then there is the Duty of Care concept.
or…
European Convention on Human Rights Act 2003 Art (4)(2)”No-One shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour
or…
General Assembly of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 5.”No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”
We’re just bounding along making it ALL up as we go along and then we’re all going along with it.
25% or 1 in 4 experienced abuse and 75% are struggling to fill the fridge. Because of the same small elite treat the country like a mediaeval fiefdom.
(3) The state, itself, has abused “the strength and health of workers, men and women, and the tender age of children…..”
physical and sexual abuse of children and the current abuse of the mental, emotional and psychological health of citizens and “workers” by the manner in which it is “dealing with” the current crisis by stressing them out (and stress kills) by levying them left-right-and-centre and frightening them into not knowing if they will be able to feed their children.
if you do anything Tim, take this to the Cumann. especially if you saw the Late Late tonight. Fr Merghan is a sole voice as you are. Denial of economics is one rot but this strikes at the core of the State.
I will. I will be supported in this endeavour by the grass roots members.
The problem is the glass ceiling I have been bashing against for over ten years between us and the Parliamentary Party. (had high hopes when we got Joe Behan across that glass divide, but he felt he had to leave on principle and now I have no-one of his integrity there)
Furrylugs, you keep on “chippin’ away” and I’ll keep on “bashin’ away”, …… OK?
“I’ll go my way, draw my pay and smoke my pipe alone”
Ah! Life’s a weary puzzle,
Past finding out by man,
I’ll take the day for what it’s worth
And do the best I can.
…… but I can’t and wont do it alone.
I am and will Tim.
No support and no surrender.
The Starry Plough first and foremost lest we forget.
Tim n furry’: I’ve always thought this is a chilling lacerating text.
http://www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/sinead_oconnor_lyrics_2350/universal_mother_lyrics_6518/famine_lyrics_77138.html
This chilled me more at the time-
I haven’t done anything that I’m ashamed of.
Martin McGuinness
wills, few things chill me, but Sinead is, indeed, a poet and a chanteuse extraordinaire. I was chilled once when I broke-up with a certain minister of finance’s niece in the early ’90s and we met often after, just as friends, and he bumped into us one night and asked her, while heleaned into me and stared straight into my eyes with venom: “Are you alright dere, now, “N”? or, do ya need your uncle Bert?”
Scary, scary man!
Hope Mrs Tim don’t see that comment…………………………
Furrylugs, Mrs Tim was at the niece’s wedding with me, so its not a problem…….
Folks, perhaps we need some kind of national “purgation”.
We blame the “English”; we blame the “Famine”; we blame the scourge of “emmigration” and our brain-drain.
“if only, if only, if only…….”
We have to stop this. We must not forget it, don’t get me wrong; but we have to stop re-acting to it and start, simply acting. (pro-active is a long way in the future, unless we do).
Perhaps we are too “passive-aggressive”, as a people. We delight in fighting eachother (“screwing eachother”, be it financially, sexually or politically).
Perhaps we need to stop.
Our psyche, from a very early age, develops to say that the can fight within our family, but dare any “outsider” fight with my brother/sister and I will kill them. We delight in this mentality; we revel in it and wear it as a badge of family honour: “I am allowed to hate my brother, but you are not!” Whence this “one-of-our-own” mentality?
Again, we blame the English.
However, before Cromwell ever arrived, and, arguably, the reason why he arrived, was because he was ASKED to come and stabalise the infarctions that were rife.
We were so busy fighting eachother that we did not see that doing so, rendered us vulnerable to teke-over.
“Easy pickin’s, while they are divided amongst themselves – why not?”
Then, did we jump straight into the “….dare any “outsider” fight with my brother/sister and I will kill them” mentality? I think we did.
This is a part of our post-colonial-popular consciousness.
The “authority” was the “English” and it became the pride of the rebellious to oppopse it (the “English”). Then, it transmuted into a pride in opposing ANY authority: the tax man (ever got away with hiding the few bob? the “nixer”? Remember how it feels? Got the guard to stamp the old form in the station claiming that the car was “off-the-road” for repairs while the car-tax was out? know what I mean?), the government, the teacher, the parent…….. anyone who is perceived to be “in authority”, you just HAVE TO “get-one-over” on them!
What if, instead of “being led by the nose” on this one, being “sheeple”, as they say, we were to try really hard to be active instead of “re-active”? What might we achieve?
Drop all the crap and the in-fighting; try to do something DIFFERENT.
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you will always get what you’ve always got”.
We are doing that right now, right here, on DMcW’s site: we are collaborating; we are bouncing ideas around, off of one-another, disperate individuals, all engaging together, asking “WTF”?????
Well, we had better keep at it, because no-one else will; that’s clear.
Alongside this “anti-authoritarian” trait, and aligned with it intrinsically, is the deference to authority problem we have: “I hate you and will oppose you, but I acknowledge your pre-dominance over me”.
What shall we do with that adolescent approach?
We should deal with it by looking at the facts. We have to become more factual and less emotive.
Be a “Vulcan” about it. Find out what the facts are and address them, instead of feelings and “opinions” about what it is…… “Opinions are like assholes: everybody has one”.
The “authority” of the church was exactly the same – that’s why abusers got away for so long. I do not accept the excuse that “It was done to me, so I knew no better” defence. That is wrong. If it was done to me, then I know in my heart and soul that it was wrong. I felt the pain, the loss of control, the violation: I know it is wrong and I will never subject any other human being to that.
Simple.
The big problem in Ireland is lack of trust – the formation of our present state, the 26 counties, was violently opposed by Dev and his followers who then did a 180 degree turn to work the very institutions that they opposed in the first place and that’s where the mistrust stems from. Dev’s tribe – Fianna Fail – still behave as outsiders and insiders at the same time and the unsettled climate that this creates, enables them to get away with corruption at all levels. I won’t go down through the catalogue of events and names, but we all know who they are and Donnie Cassidy’s enable/protection scam with the Airport Bars is just another example where we have to close our eyes and pretend that it’s not so.
While Fianna Fail exist, we’ll never be a united people – they’re still playing the bandit while at the same time being in control of the law – it doesn’t add up, it never did and never will.
Early morning Bulletin.
Kettle now calling pot …………………….
“John Gormley accused the main opposition parties of engaging in a planning frenzy.”
This F**kwit must have been comatose for the last 20 years.
Feelin Failed are the planning frenzy party. Tribunals Gormless???
Duh?
“Children in pieces
in Irish industrial schools
Nuns cold mothers
and the christian brothers
kick the shit out of very frightened children
Judges and priests and police and cardinals
they look the other way
When the weekend comes
they’ll make use of those:
Children in pieces
in Irish industrial schools
Nuns cold mothers
and the christian brothers
kick the shit out of very frightened children
You say you wanna go home
you say you wanna be left alone
and so you turn to me
but instead of sympathy I find
my sentimental heart hardens
my sentimental heart hardens
Get your hands off me
Kid, you must be bad luck
My sentimental heart hardens”
http://hypem.com/search/children%20in%20pieces/1/
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/from-morrissey-to-tony-blair-how-irelands-children-are-at-the-heart-of-english-culture-445584.html
At least the nuns ran clean efficient hospitals.
Tim – ‘thinking’ , you know the experience .It’s the fastest thing than anything else in the world.Tell your students that it is only they that can make it really work and not a mechanic.
Saints & Scholars – Robbers & Thieves / Banksters-Criminals -
Supererogatory Acts : Our common intuitions apparently sit quiete comfortably with this kind of assessment .It seems natural to view morality as a two – tiered affair.On one level, there are things that we are morally required to do: basic obligations that are a matter of duty and set the minimum standard of ordinary morality.Often these are stated negatively, as obligations that are wrong not to meet:do not lie,cheat,kill,etc.We are expected to meet them ourselves and expect others to do likewise.
In addition to these ordinary moral duties , there are , at a more elevated level, moral ideals.These are often expressed positively and may be open ended :thus , while there is an ordinary moral duty not to steal from others,great generosity to others is an ideal that is in principle unlimited.Such an action may go beyond what is required by ordinary morality and fall into a category of so called ‘supererogatory acts’- acts that are praiseworthy to perform but not blameworthy to omit.Supererogatory acts are the province of ‘heroes and saints’.Such people may consider these acts to be their duty and blame themselves if they fail to performthem,but this is essentially a personal sense of duty and others are not entitled to judge them in this way.
This category of extraordinary, non-obligatory moral actions is philosophically interesting precisely because of the difficulties that some ethical systems have in accommodating it.Such systems typically form some conception of what is good and then define what is right and what is wrong by reference to this standard.The idea that something is acknowledged to be good and yet is not required may then be hard to explain.
To give an example :
a) Should an an Independent Auditor see bank officials taking drugs in their offices and storing them and does not report them to management ,police or vested third parties and just does only his professional job as set out in the professional accounting rules & ethics , he is seen to have done a good job by those he serves ; and
b)Should an Independent Auditor not working or engaged with the bank and in extraordinary circumstances report verbally a perceived Money Laundering act to the bank management because he happened to be inadvertently in the ‘wrong place at the wrong time’ and is then set up to be made the ‘fall guy’, he then is made to be seen ‘to be guilty’ by the bank eventhough in truth he is ‘the hero’ and the judge dismises the case and he receives the support of his professional institute and colleagues.In this case the bank continues to act criminally because it commits perjury and refuses to investigate the matter and advises the accountant in writing to sue the Irish Fraud Squad for negligence.Today this is the culture of the Bord of Directors of the Bank of Ireland and proves that bank crime in Ireland is legal eventhough the fraud squad sent a criminal report on the bank management officials to the Director of Public Prosecutions and no reason was given why not to prosecute.
It is against the above background that you can measure the eventuality of ‘your future’ and ‘your children’s future’ and why slavery and indentured services in Ireland is very much alive and well and fostered by the elite in D4.I have campaigned on these matters for 15 years when it was seen to be ‘indifferent’ to criticise an Irish Bank.Nothing has changed since other than the change in perception of trust of Irish bank top management .And that will not release you the electorate from the shackles of slavery.
JohnAllen: another fascinating post, in my humble estimations.
Credit production in the hands of self serving needs means feudalism rules. But, slavery starts and ends in ‘broken trust’. And self servers come along and exploit it. My point, release from the shackles of slavery perhaps is coming soon and the jailers / self servers know it and are bagging the loot. The internet and info tech and gadgets etc are tools too fix ‘broken trust’ and a fixing is a happening.
“The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is
perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was every invented.
Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . Bankers own the earth. Take
it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of
a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again . Take this great
power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then
this would be a better and happier world to live in . But if you want to
continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then
let bankers continue to create money and control credit.”
— Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest
man in Britain in the 1920′s, speaking at the University of Texas in 1927
See the online film “freedom to fascism”
the marrying of corporatism and government, oh sounds like communism too…extreme right and extreme left meet at the back of the circle. The bankers sit there pulling the strings backing both sides and backing us into smaller and smaller corners.
Point the guns away from eachother and in the direction of the central bankers those life sucking scum!!!! This must end, this is our last chance before they squeeze us all out of existance.
Carpe diem!!!!!!!!!!!
……….Can’t see the wood for the trees anymore on this site. Now need to do a search to find good comments.
mediator: You just don’t ‘get it’ if you are searching for clear-cut solutions to the present mess. It is only by following a glimmer of light that you will hack your way out of this economic forest. You might still find it here.
mediator: ……..maybe someone else find’s the comment good. For example, me.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/state-lost-highstakes-game-with-two-nuns-1747597.html
Over tea and biscuits the nuns would explain that the Church had very limited resources and that if the State wanted to seize their property, they would, for instance, have to evict children from schools.
This doesnt suprise me at all….its bureauracy at work…exact same modus operandi as the HSE shutting down services without making any attempt to address internal costs or problems.
Whats worth noting is that it doesnt matter whether its nuns, priests, teachers, guards, nurses, doctors, prison wardens, public servants, private company employees, banksters, armies etc….its bureauracy.
Bureaucracy is always in self healing mode, always looking to close ranks, sacrifice those who are not members for its survival or even comfort…. Bureauracy is the modern tribalism.
Banks, politics, education and religion are infected.
Trust in our community is broken.
Information and pure intelligence is the medicine to fix ‘broken trust’.
The GAdgets are the answer to this plague upon our house.
Keep speaking the truth and the trust will be fixed.
Use all the tools to speak the truth, pure intelligence, spread the truth throughout the land and the shackles will unlock.
The ‘word’ is the key.
The gadgets are the delivery vehicles to unlock the shackles.
The gadget = key.
Use the gadgets, spread the ‘word’ the key will turn and the shackles will unlock.
This link for me is the infection summed up in a simple ordinary way.
http://www.miamiherald.com/living/story/1060254.html
So the property developers were telling porkies to the banks who were telling porkies to the regulator telling porkies to the gov telling porkies to the electorate in a chain mail of ‘broke trust’.
A ‘broken trust’ now underway in been fixed.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/builders-lsquodeceivedrsquo-top-banks-on-loans-1749077.html
more lies……
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/elections/cowen-denies-misleading-voters-on-economic-upturn-1748925.html
I can identify with Mediator in so far that I am seeing nothing new now. Yes there is a lot of development of the same arguments and solid explanations around the same topics.
In the end, it looks as if the end game (if such a thing exists) is either a momentous change or business as usual when people suck in and get used to it and then it’s back to “normal”.
People get tired of bad news and usually want to go back to sleep or emigrate. Powerlessness of a child who survives by being unnoticed is the attribute shared by most of people (and not just in Ireland).
Showing people how change has been done and can be done in Ireland is the single biggest challenge we face. This is DMcW’s next challenge or his articles will start to look stale as will the content of this blog.
Here Here. Well all know Ireland Inc. broken, we all know why (more or less). What I have learned from these comments is that essentially the vast majority are yet again being screwed to enrich a few. When is this nonsense going to end? There is a fundamental problem with Irish political leadership
of who is in power
of how they get there
to whom they are accountable
and of their suitability for the job in the first place
True now as its ever been. Talking round and round in circles about why the actions of the current administration are fraught with danger as David now appears to be doing is useful, accurate but unhelpful. I can only speculate as to his motivations for doing this (I guess we are all frustrated at our hosts refusal to get overtly political but that’s his choice). Others here have suggested more direct solutions that would in other nations have resulted in the door being kicked in at 4am and them never being heard from again.
I don’t mean to detract from the very interesting stuff that’s been said here and I’m certainly in no position to criticize, but I’d respectfully like to ask: what on earth is a discussion about child abuse doing in an economics blog? Being ‘Interesting’ is yet another Irish National Problem.
Again I ask the question, what are the Irish going to do about where they find themselves? These are perennial problems that will not be fixed by merely removing FF alone.
Suprised nobody has mentioned it…
Dear Bertie,
Please find below an example of national leadership you might consider emulating, and perhaps follow your own advice in the process.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8065101.stm
Regards,
-L
Liam: You ask a valid question: “what on earth is a discussion about child abuse doing in an economics blog?”
Perhaps you missed my post at 10:06am on 21st on the previous page, which may have been responsible for this diversion, that some seem to consider irrelevant.
You may disagree with the points I raised there but it would be constructive if you would explain why we don’t need to address the deeper issue of trust in Irish society as a first step in remedying our economic woes.
Trust in the secular world is the moral equivalent of faith in the spiritual world. It requires a mutual understanding of the benefits to be derived from co-operation and the penalties to be exacted for betrayal.
How can we build a trustworthy economic system using the party political components that betrayed those children’s trust over a period of 70 years and passed the cost of that betrayal so deftly to the taxpayer?
I don;t disagree with your point at all. You were talking abut trust, which I believe was your main point, and you made it very well. The abuse thing is symptom of an underlying condition:
How can we build a trustworthy economic system using the party political components that betrayed those children’s trust over a period of 70 years and passed the cost of that betrayal so deftly to the taxpayer? I entirely agree.
Davids articles are not strictly academic economics. His articles are also essays on culture, society and politics.
Child abuse in my humble estimations is central to economics.
A society will never ever be equitable if child abuse exists.
TRUST is the lifeblood of economics NOT profit or resource allocation theory. The main destroyer of trust is child abuse, therefore the biggest threat to economics is child abuse.
If the reality of child abuse is not interwoven into discourse on economics the outcome will be intelligence not grounded in the real world.
The solutions to Irelands problems are not going to happen without significant long term dedication to rooting out the cancer growth.
Irelands political economy is failing because Ireland is a nation that is given over to child abuse as a normal part of everyday life. One only has to go down the church to be up for child molestation and buggery. Every third home in Ireland one will find violence been used to degrade and control the ‘kid’s’. Sadism rules in Ireland from childhood to the grave. Irish people are mediavel sexually and cannabilise their children into eunuch jellybells. The t1t runs Ireland. Ireland is an amazonian tribal walking disaster. MOSt dribble their sunday roast over the bouncy bouncy yummy mummy and these values rule and dominate all economic and political agendas. Most economic exchanges in Ireland originate in the trading and bartering between men and women finding an agreed exchange to go to bed with each other for god sakes. Wakey wakey liam and philip.
Here’s the coverage we are getting in Ireland to attract direct foreign investment. New york times is in top5 global newspapers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/world/europe/21ireland.html?_r=1&bl&ex=1243051200&en=5e6557f1159edce7&ei=5087
Here’s coverage Ireland’s political economy is receiving across the wires in middle east.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=122787&d=23&m=5&y=2009
here’s really favourable advertising for board failte to intice much needed middle america tourism into ireland for the summer…
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7645342&page=1
We are even receiving much needed advertising for the ol sod in Taipei of all places,,.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2009/05/22/2003444234
Oh dear, the news is covering our sex problems in austraiia too.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/irish-abuse-report-sparks-fears-20090521-bh6n.html
I could go on but i’m now going to ponder what this child abuse stuff has anything to do with economics.
Wills, I honestly think that as tragic as the child abuse situation is, it is a symptom of a problem, namely a broken leadership system, also the root cause of our economic woes.
Faulty Ireland – International News Media has a new meaning for Failte Ireland and Irish Banks in Crime
Irelands now proven to be outdated, ossified economic and social structure, that has to be broken apart to allow irish inherent creativity to blossom, was engineered into existence through the callous unrelenting perpetration of child sexual abuse on an industrial scale.