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	<title>Comments on: Realism is not racism in the immigration debate</title>
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	<description>The website of economist, author and broadcaster, David McWilliams</description>
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		<title>By: b</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-34924</link>
		<dc:creator>b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 14:10:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-34924</guid>
		<description>What floodgates?  Spain, Italy and France has a massive problem with illegals literally being washed up on their shores.  Ireland is much harder to get to.

 We have still no coherent immigration policy.  We have on the one hand skilled people looking for work here who are not allowed to work in their chosen field and on the other hand whinging and moaning and bellyaching about a creaking an inadequate health service.  Match these people up.  I have seen them.  I have met them and they are ready, qualified and ready to work.  Qualifications validated by the HSE.

There is a lot of bollocks spoken about recent immigration into Ireland.  All of us who have any slight connection to a foreign country should present themselves to the Gardai for deportation.  I will have to go because in the 16th century I had an ancestor from France.

The largest group of immigrants to Ireland have British passports.  Lets deport them too.  And anyone with a Danish or Norse background off you go back home too.  St Patrick was a Welshman and DeValera had &quot;Spanish&quot; ancestory.  

What we will have left will be a bunch of backward thinking inbred halfwits that Dev would be proud of.  lets go back to the enlightened days of the 1940&#039;s when we wanted to be like another state born in 1948 North Korea.  

We need immigrants and we have a history of it going back at least a thousand years.  Are we really going to go back to the days of excluding people like the Jews that Dr.McQuaid went ballistic over during WW2?  

Instead of taking a leaf out of Canada and Australia&#039;s book we have gone with the idiots at the back of the class as regards where we get immigration policy.  By all means restrict who gets in but make it at least coherent and transparent and maybe even match it to the needs and capacity of the country.  Possibly even base the law on facts and maybe even use some statistics instead of knee jerk reactions to imaginary problems.

If we were to to carry this argument to its logical end we would deport the Papal Nuncio for supporting crimes against children in Ireland.  If he were a company director he would have been deported a long time back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What floodgates?  Spain, Italy and France has a massive problem with illegals literally being washed up on their shores.  Ireland is much harder to get to.</p>
<p> We have still no coherent immigration policy.  We have on the one hand skilled people looking for work here who are not allowed to work in their chosen field and on the other hand whinging and moaning and bellyaching about a creaking an inadequate health service.  Match these people up.  I have seen them.  I have met them and they are ready, qualified and ready to work.  Qualifications validated by the HSE.</p>
<p>There is a lot of bollocks spoken about recent immigration into Ireland.  All of us who have any slight connection to a foreign country should present themselves to the Gardai for deportation.  I will have to go because in the 16th century I had an ancestor from France.</p>
<p>The largest group of immigrants to Ireland have British passports.  Lets deport them too.  And anyone with a Danish or Norse background off you go back home too.  St Patrick was a Welshman and DeValera had &#8220;Spanish&#8221; ancestory.  </p>
<p>What we will have left will be a bunch of backward thinking inbred halfwits that Dev would be proud of.  lets go back to the enlightened days of the 1940&#8242;s when we wanted to be like another state born in 1948 North Korea.  </p>
<p>We need immigrants and we have a history of it going back at least a thousand years.  Are we really going to go back to the days of excluding people like the Jews that Dr.McQuaid went ballistic over during WW2?  </p>
<p>Instead of taking a leaf out of Canada and Australia&#8217;s book we have gone with the idiots at the back of the class as regards where we get immigration policy.  By all means restrict who gets in but make it at least coherent and transparent and maybe even match it to the needs and capacity of the country.  Possibly even base the law on facts and maybe even use some statistics instead of knee jerk reactions to imaginary problems.</p>
<p>If we were to to carry this argument to its logical end we would deport the Papal Nuncio for supporting crimes against children in Ireland.  If he were a company director he would have been deported a long time back.</p>
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		<title>By: Oonagh</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-34918</link>
		<dc:creator>Oonagh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-34918</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

I recently found this crazy letter posted from someone delusional about immigration issues. In a follow up comment, the author &#039;Robert Keelan Meisel&#039; believes &quot;we need to allow foreigners get citizenship if they so look for it.&quot; ! 

I have to say, there are some real time cranks out there nowadays that will do anything to try to open up the floodgates.  

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/so-are-you-really-irish-enough-1272029.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>I recently found this crazy letter posted from someone delusional about immigration issues. In a follow up comment, the author &#8216;Robert Keelan Meisel&#8217; believes &#8220;we need to allow foreigners get citizenship if they so look for it.&#8221; ! </p>
<p>I have to say, there are some real time cranks out there nowadays that will do anything to try to open up the floodgates.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/so-are-you-really-irish-enough-1272029.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/so-are-you-really-irish-enough-1272029.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dónall Garvin</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33928</link>
		<dc:creator>Dónall Garvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33928</guid>
		<description>Reply to &quot;WakeUp&quot;

How far off the mark?

You say that these foreigner (~30m eh?) who are &quot;fast outnumbering British people in their own land.&quot; are &quot;rude&quot; and then you tell them to &quot;“sod off back abroad and leave us alone in peace!” - I wonder what their opinion of people like you is?

I&#039;m guessing that you have a poor understanding of economics with your comment &quot;How is helping the economy sending your wage back to your own country?&quot;

But, I guess your biggest concern is the integration problems that these new peoples pose for the UK (and Ireland) - while I don&#039;t have any quick fixes, I do know that in the past immigrants have been able to assimilate into countries and cultures. Maybe in today&#039;s world, society is already broken-up - people rarely speak to their neighbours, everyone pretty much uses private transport and house-prices create a real division between the halves and have-nots.  These problems concern me too - I just don&#039;t like your fixation on &quot;British Heritage&quot; - that is a modern construction, a falacy, based on misconceptions and stereo-types.
For example, people wear the Poppy to commemorate the &quot;Great War&quot; - but what was the real point of that war, why is it called the &quot;Great War&quot; and not the &quot;Stupid War&quot; - I&#039;m guessing that these immigrants make people like you - Zenophobes - insecure about what it actually means to be British and that is the problem at hand.

I could disagree with everything you say but i doubt it would change your emotions on the issues here.

Dónall</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reply to &#8220;WakeUp&#8221;</p>
<p>How far off the mark?</p>
<p>You say that these foreigner (~30m eh?) who are &#8220;fast outnumbering British people in their own land.&#8221; are &#8220;rude&#8221; and then you tell them to &#8220;“sod off back abroad and leave us alone in peace!” &#8211; I wonder what their opinion of people like you is?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that you have a poor understanding of economics with your comment &#8220;How is helping the economy sending your wage back to your own country?&#8221;</p>
<p>But, I guess your biggest concern is the integration problems that these new peoples pose for the UK (and Ireland) &#8211; while I don&#8217;t have any quick fixes, I do know that in the past immigrants have been able to assimilate into countries and cultures. Maybe in today&#8217;s world, society is already broken-up &#8211; people rarely speak to their neighbours, everyone pretty much uses private transport and house-prices create a real division between the halves and have-nots.  These problems concern me too &#8211; I just don&#8217;t like your fixation on &#8220;British Heritage&#8221; &#8211; that is a modern construction, a falacy, based on misconceptions and stereo-types.<br />
For example, people wear the Poppy to commemorate the &#8220;Great War&#8221; &#8211; but what was the real point of that war, why is it called the &#8220;Great War&#8221; and not the &#8220;Stupid War&#8221; &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing that these immigrants make people like you &#8211; Zenophobes &#8211; insecure about what it actually means to be British and that is the problem at hand.</p>
<p>I could disagree with everything you say but i doubt it would change your emotions on the issues here.</p>
<p>Dónall</p>
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		<title>By: WakeUp</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33923</link>
		<dc:creator>WakeUp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33923</guid>
		<description>WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE - BRITAIN IS BEING TAKING OVER BY FOREIGNERS WHO ARE STRIPPING AWAY OUR PROUD IDENTITY.

Foreigners are fast outnumbering British people in their own land. It has to stop. The incomers complain to us about things like Christmas. They say &quot;it offends me&quot;, I say &quot;sod off back abroad and leave us alone in peace!&quot;

The foreigners, in addition to being rude and yabbering away in their own language, do n integrate into our communities at all  - in fast they break them up. How is helping the economy sending your wage back to your own country? I don&#039;t understand the ignorant left-wing do-gooders! British soldiers died fighting to save this country and it&#039;s heritage - and we&#039;re throwing away all their good work. This country&#039;s already grossly over-crowded, hence the lack of countryside, especially in the South-East. Send all the foreigners  home. I&#039;m voting for the BNP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE &#8211; BRITAIN IS BEING TAKING OVER BY FOREIGNERS WHO ARE STRIPPING AWAY OUR PROUD IDENTITY.</p>
<p>Foreigners are fast outnumbering British people in their own land. It has to stop. The incomers complain to us about things like Christmas. They say &#8220;it offends me&#8221;, I say &#8220;sod off back abroad and leave us alone in peace!&#8221;</p>
<p>The foreigners, in addition to being rude and yabbering away in their own language, do n integrate into our communities at all  &#8211; in fast they break them up. How is helping the economy sending your wage back to your own country? I don&#8217;t understand the ignorant left-wing do-gooders! British soldiers died fighting to save this country and it&#8217;s heritage &#8211; and we&#8217;re throwing away all their good work. This country&#8217;s already grossly over-crowded, hence the lack of countryside, especially in the South-East. Send all the foreigners  home. I&#8217;m voting for the BNP.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33699</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33699</guid>
		<description>Carl,

They say that approx.16% of the construction industry workforce are immigrants, then add to this, the Irish workers in the industry that have been relieved from working in less paid sectors by other immigrants and  it could be the equivalent of a further 16% + , a sizable number by any standard. No matter how you look at way our expansion was achieved - supply and demand still holds true. If the housing /construction sector had been properly managed/regulated, we’d still be growing - It’s shaping up to be a disaster - some of us have a high value asset, but it’s relative - a house is still a house and exchanging one house for another doesn’t  do enrich anybody and is another example of fools gold. The clever lads, though, have extracted all that they could from the caper and have moved the capital abroad to where they can get real value. The sad thing is that now we’re left with a country that is only a debt ridden shell - like the Telecom Eireann fiasco.
It’s great fun!!! - for some and but it’s not the immigrants fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>They say that approx.16% of the construction industry workforce are immigrants, then add to this, the Irish workers in the industry that have been relieved from working in less paid sectors by other immigrants and  it could be the equivalent of a further 16% + , a sizable number by any standard. No matter how you look at way our expansion was achieved &#8211; supply and demand still holds true. If the housing /construction sector had been properly managed/regulated, we’d still be growing &#8211; It’s shaping up to be a disaster &#8211; some of us have a high value asset, but it’s relative &#8211; a house is still a house and exchanging one house for another doesn’t  do enrich anybody and is another example of fools gold. The clever lads, though, have extracted all that they could from the caper and have moved the capital abroad to where they can get real value. The sad thing is that now we’re left with a country that is only a debt ridden shell &#8211; like the Telecom Eireann fiasco.<br />
It’s great fun!!! &#8211; for some and but it’s not the immigrants fault.</p>
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		<title>By: D</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33689</link>
		<dc:creator>D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33689</guid>
		<description>What I find laughable is Mary McAleese last night hailing New Zealand&#039;s Multiculturalism and record for tolerance.

New Zealand has had a terrible record for Treating the Maori People, they have the highest unemployment record and are often discriminated from work places. It&#039;s only in the last few years that the Maori&#039;s have been given the right to access facilities in their own native tongue.

This also overshadows the culture that has  emerged from the segragation of both Settlers and Maori&#039;s for generations called the &quot;Mongrol Mob&quot; which is made of mostly Moari&#039;s (95%+).

This also should be taken into account that there are numerous stories over the last few years about bad relations escalating so much between Maoris &amp; Settler that there would be a civil war or the country will be partitioned in the future!

What was An Urachtaran thinking yesterday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find laughable is Mary McAleese last night hailing New Zealand&#8217;s Multiculturalism and record for tolerance.</p>
<p>New Zealand has had a terrible record for Treating the Maori People, they have the highest unemployment record and are often discriminated from work places. It&#8217;s only in the last few years that the Maori&#8217;s have been given the right to access facilities in their own native tongue.</p>
<p>This also overshadows the culture that has  emerged from the segragation of both Settlers and Maori&#8217;s for generations called the &#8220;Mongrol Mob&#8221; which is made of mostly Moari&#8217;s (95%+).</p>
<p>This also should be taken into account that there are numerous stories over the last few years about bad relations escalating so much between Maoris &amp; Settler that there would be a civil war or the country will be partitioned in the future!</p>
<p>What was An Urachtaran thinking yesterday?</p>
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		<title>By: SpinstaSista</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33683</link>
		<dc:creator>SpinstaSista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33683</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion. If not properly managed, the relationship between Irish and immigrant workers could become volatile. Already there are individual incidents of violence which are being kept quiet. An altercation between an Irish worker and an immigrant worker in a Kildare factory resulted in the Irish worker being stabbed by the immigrant. The immigrant had to use a knife in the course of his work, and apparently lost it after the Irish worker had called him &quot;nigger&quot; one too many times. The immigrant was not of African origin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion. If not properly managed, the relationship between Irish and immigrant workers could become volatile. Already there are individual incidents of violence which are being kept quiet. An altercation between an Irish worker and an immigrant worker in a Kildare factory resulted in the Irish worker being stabbed by the immigrant. The immigrant had to use a knife in the course of his work, and apparently lost it after the Irish worker had called him &#8220;nigger&#8221; one too many times. The immigrant was not of African origin.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33671</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33671</guid>
		<description>Yeah but Ed, you don&#039;t have a balanced rationale there. The building industry is composed of a majority of Irish workers. Are you really telling me that immigrants actually gave us those extra few years to build a prosperous economy? When migrants come in on the job and offer themselves available at prices that you would never match, how can you not say that its the immigrants who created this problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah but Ed, you don&#8217;t have a balanced rationale there. The building industry is composed of a majority of Irish workers. Are you really telling me that immigrants actually gave us those extra few years to build a prosperous economy? When migrants come in on the job and offer themselves available at prices that you would never match, how can you not say that its the immigrants who created this problem?</p>
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		<title>By: Donal</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33670</link>
		<dc:creator>Donal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33670</guid>
		<description>Immigrants have contributed to the Growth of the Irish Economy but there is one overlooked problem........

our success is really cash we&#039;ve borrowed and we have no hope of properly paying it back!

The Celtic Tiger has shown that people are living beyond their means:
A 1million Euros House
A BMW
Weekends of shopping x3 to New York per year 
all on a salary of E40,000 Per Annum

Oh and by the way, they have forked out a 50 Year Mortgage

How are we supposed to believe that we are a developed nation when hundreds of  thousands of people are living such extravagant lifestyles?

The Health Service is handled badly, there&#039;s a segregated education for immigrants because the basics can&#039;t be provided for the children, Indigenous Irish are leaving suburban areas because its overflowing with foreign people who don&#039;t even speak the english language, intolerance is brewing much faster than first predicted.

When the crash comes whom are going to be the victims and bare the brunt of the fallout? Yeah, that&#039;s correct the man who&#039;s serving you the cup of coffee.

It&#039;s time that the Irish took responsibility for what is going wrong in this country, we need to rely on ourselves to get out of this mess. If people weren&#039;t so lazy on doing lower skilled work, then we wouldn&#039;t have the problems we are now facing.

Why does the Government think there isn&#039;t a problem with Immigration, when all our pre-existing limited infrastructure is becoming more and more strained?

Let&#039;s do the right thing and call our people home: Australia, New Zealand, America, Argentina and the pockets in South Africa &amp; Canada</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Immigrants have contributed to the Growth of the Irish Economy but there is one overlooked problem&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>our success is really cash we&#8217;ve borrowed and we have no hope of properly paying it back!</p>
<p>The Celtic Tiger has shown that people are living beyond their means:<br />
A 1million Euros House<br />
A BMW<br />
Weekends of shopping x3 to New York per year<br />
all on a salary of E40,000 Per Annum</p>
<p>Oh and by the way, they have forked out a 50 Year Mortgage</p>
<p>How are we supposed to believe that we are a developed nation when hundreds of  thousands of people are living such extravagant lifestyles?</p>
<p>The Health Service is handled badly, there&#8217;s a segregated education for immigrants because the basics can&#8217;t be provided for the children, Indigenous Irish are leaving suburban areas because its overflowing with foreign people who don&#8217;t even speak the english language, intolerance is brewing much faster than first predicted.</p>
<p>When the crash comes whom are going to be the victims and bare the brunt of the fallout? Yeah, that&#8217;s correct the man who&#8217;s serving you the cup of coffee.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time that the Irish took responsibility for what is going wrong in this country, we need to rely on ourselves to get out of this mess. If people weren&#8217;t so lazy on doing lower skilled work, then we wouldn&#8217;t have the problems we are now facing.</p>
<p>Why does the Government think there isn&#8217;t a problem with Immigration, when all our pre-existing limited infrastructure is becoming more and more strained?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s do the right thing and call our people home: Australia, New Zealand, America, Argentina and the pockets in South Africa &amp; Canada</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate/comment-page-1#comment-33661</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/10/17/realism-is-not-racism-in-the-immigration-debate#comment-33661</guid>
		<description>Carl,

I didn’t say that the immigrants built the new Irish Economy - I said that they were essential to its success.
Without the influx of workers from abroad, the economy would have stalled at a point where there were no more workers available to expand any further - competition would have brought about wage increases which would have caused a decline in competitiveness and triggered a decline early on in the cycle to the position where we are at present. It gave us a few more years of expansion that couldn’t have been achieved without them. The irony is that they gave a real boost to the building industry which of course is mainly responsible for our problems - it’s Irish parasites in that sector who’ve got away with extortion and who have wrecked the economy for everyone else - the immigrants were only doing a day’s work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carl,</p>
<p>I didn’t say that the immigrants built the new Irish Economy &#8211; I said that they were essential to its success.<br />
Without the influx of workers from abroad, the economy would have stalled at a point where there were no more workers available to expand any further &#8211; competition would have brought about wage increases which would have caused a decline in competitiveness and triggered a decline early on in the cycle to the position where we are at present. It gave us a few more years of expansion that couldn’t have been achieved without them. The irony is that they gave a real boost to the building industry which of course is mainly responsible for our problems &#8211; it’s Irish parasites in that sector who’ve got away with extortion and who have wrecked the economy for everyone else &#8211; the immigrants were only doing a day’s work.</p>
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